From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 9:54 pm Subject: Re: So much great TD in the past 3 days! Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:44:40 -0400 (EDT) tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Gabe Yedid > > >On Thu, 12 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > >> Really-From: Dennis Nigbur >> >> >> On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:56:26 -0400 (EDT) tadream mailing list >> wrote: >> >Really-From: Gabe Yedid >> >> >Well, I suppose we will just have to wait and see. My own guess is that >> >'Order of the Ginger G(u)ild' is pointing the way to TD's future. Note >> >that they are playing only 2 pieces from _GC_ on the current tour, and >> >the ones most strongly akin to the electronica-oriented stuff: 'Towards >> >the Evening Star' and 'Lamb With Radar Eyes'. >> >> to play a bit more 'Goblins Club' stuff. >> >> Dennis > >HUH? Did something happen to the rest of your sentence, here? > >Gabe Sorry, I don't know what happened there. What I was saying was that they also play 'Rising Haul in Silence', but that you're generally right in that I would have expected them... 'to play a bit more 'Goblins Club' stuff' (end quote). Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5011 Re: So much great TD in the past 3 days! Gabe Yedid Sat 6/14/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: OASIS: TD Goes Retro, For Real Really-From: Steven Feldman Interesting. For those of us who occasionally lapse into wishing that Edgar and Co. would 'go back to the way they were before,' OASIS is the closest they've come this side of 'Sundance Kid' from the 22 VOLT LIVE album.. I guess all the TANGENT-izing that ultimately resulted in THE DREAM MIXES and the 'Das Madchen auf der Treppe 1997' EP really came through for fans of the various 'old-style TD's. OASIS has plenty of the old-style sequencers of the Schmoelling and Private Music years (I refuse to memorize which are the Pink and Blue Years), and is really a nice surprise for old-timers like me. Although this CD bears some resemblance to CANYON DREAMS in format and approach, it is quite different, sonically--with the exception of one track that is reminiscent of the languid track from CANYON DREAMS (can't recall the name) and a track from SHY PEOPLE with a name something like 'Swamp Voices.' Actually, I think this languid track, which is quite like the sluggish 'Beach Bay Bunker' (the second of the four tracks on the fifth DREAM ROOTS CD) in its austerity, is the clunker on the album. Some folks here have complained about the closing track with all the American Indian-inspired rattle-shaking and suchlike, but it's this one that drags everything else down, IMHO. Besides, compare and/or constrast 'Cliff Dwellers' to this last track, and it's BEYOND THE STORM feel adds a nice touch. -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5012 Re: OASIS: TD Goes Retro, For Real Gabe Yedid Sat 6/14/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 10:06 pm Subject: Re: D: Oasis Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:07:35 -0400 (EDT) tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Gabe Yedid > >I liked it quite a bit myself, what's 'disturbing' about the sequencers? 3AS They are ok until the melody comes in. But as the two don't seem to be in tune, it has the same effect on me as the 'Love on a Real Train' version on Tangents...to me, it sounds like someone manually starting one and the same line over and over again, and getting slightly out of tempo after a while. When the more fluent and soothing oboe melody is finally replaced by the reverb-piano-like sound, it seems to me as if all the notes played in the song suddenly lacked the ground to stand on. Each note just seems to be a short impulse that disappears very quickly through the hole in the ground that has just opened up. I suppose that might be what I don't like about a lot of 1990s TD - the absence of thick, sustained 'foundation' sounds as a basis for the more dotted-around, percussion-like sounds. Anyone understand where I'm coming from?? Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Tacky Ad on the TD Web Page Really-From: 'Steve, Crasser than Ever' Hi All, Originally, I was going to lay low and try to hide from the ire I thought I'd incur from placing outright *ads* for THE KEEP soundtrack on the TD website, but I guess no one here caught on. Maybe it's because I placed the ad in the form of a Guestbook message--which I suspect now that no one here reads. Ah well, it'll probably amount to nothing, anyways--unfortunately. -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 11:16 pm Subject: Re: A Tangerine Dream (LONG POST) Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:14:04 -0400 (EDT) tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Sean Montgomery > >I had a weird one last night. I found myself at a TD concert, where Edgar >and Jerome had on glittery purple jackets and matching top hats. It was >all very theatrical, and concluded with them being carried offstage in a >horsedrawn carriage. Shame I don't have my books on Freudian psychoanalysis on me at the moment...anyway, let's try the common-sense approach: 'glittery purple jackets' are things that don't really tend to appear in TD concerts normally. Accordingly, your dream would best be interpreted as symbolic rather than prophetic (not majorly exciting up to this point). But what could these jackets symbolise?? What struck me was that they wer _purple_ rather than any other colour. Well, purple does appear in a number of TD song titles: 'Pilots of Purple Twilight', for instance, and, more recently, and certainly a lot more frequently played these days: 'Purple Haze' - which is not even really a TD song! Furthermore, the jackets were glittery...along with the haze that the aforementioned song title just conjured up in my mind (and maybe in yours, as you later speak of a 'very theatrical' performance), this indicates a highly spectacular show, somewhere between GlamRock and Jean Michel Jarre. The carriage could be seen as part of the show, but along with the top hats, it makes me think of a rather spectacular and colourful, yet gloomy undertaker-and-hearse outfit. Could it be possible that you were contemplating about something 'dying' in the middle of all those spectacular, pompous goings-on? >After it was over, a faceless individual approached >me with a photo in their hand, which cross-dissolved into moving footage >of the Froese family crossing a city street, circa 1979 (Jerome was just a >little guy). The fact that the individual did not have a face could, in my view, indicate that (a) his identity is irrelevant, as he represents an indefinite number of people, or (b) he symbolises something that has just _lost_ its identity. Taking into account the photograph, which is most certainly some sort of pleasant or unpleasant memory, it might actually be a mixture of both. The Froese family (I'm afraid I don't know how to make sense of Monique's presence, so let's assume it had been just Edgar and Jerome) crossing a street could possibly symbolise something along the lines of 'crossing the Rubicon', i.e., heading off into a certain direction beyond the point of no return. So what we have here in terms of potentially symbolic items are: (1) Glittery Purple Jackets - spectacular, 'Purple Haze', theatrical (2) Top Hats and Carriage - undertaker, hearse? -> death?? (3) Faceless individual - public opinion, 'losing face' (loss of identity) (4) Photograph - memories from the past (5) Froese Family Crossing a Street, ca. 1979 - point of change Let's try a _tentative_ interpretation of this analysis: Spectacular shows are rather common in the music business, and some of them are actually so spectacular that they camouflage the quality of the music, which is thereby left to degenerate and _die_, as it is not regarded to be as important, if it is not on its own. TD have in fact produced a quasi-concept album on the topic of aesthetics over ethics - its name is 'Tyranny of Beauty'! TD themselves have occasionally displayed a tendency into the direction of consensus over substance (which is even more noticeable as they used to be 'idols' of the substance approach): The aforementioned 'Purple Haze' could be seen as such an effort, contributing something popular and recognisable for people to headbang over, rather than their more nostalgic mellow, contemplative mood music. 'Dream Mixes' appears to be another step into the direction of 'popularising' TD music (which does _not_ imply a judgement on my part about the quality of this step - I don't even _have_ the Dream Mixes). The 'undertaker and hearse' image might express a subliminal fear of TDs music (and thereby TD) 'dying' in this process of sacrifice. This fits in quite well with the 'loss of identity' interpretation of the faceless individual. Judging by the contributions on this list, a lot of members seem to prefer the 'traditional' TD style over the 90s style. They might be represented in the individual you encountered in your dream (another reason why he doesn't have a face - he is a group of people rather than a single person). This fear is contrasted with the memories represented by the photograph. There is a number of interesting aspects about the picture: Firstly, it shows Jerome, who was not then a member of the band. One might assume that, the process of crossing the street taken as symbolising the vital step into a new domain, Jerome is associated with that departure. This can be interpreted optimistically or pessimistically. The pessimistic view could suggest that the collaboration of Edgar and Jerome as a 'family business' joint venture brings about the unpleasant changes mentioned above, e.g. by blurring/diluting processes to the music. Alternatively, Jerome crossing the street with his dad might symbolise the passing of the torch to Jerome, as TDs 'saviour' in that he continues his father's work. It is funny, though, that you mention 1979, which might indicate that the aforementioned point of departure happened at that point already. If you are someone who prefers the Baumann era (which ended in 1977, just two years before the date in which you place your vision) over the Schmoelling, Haslinger, or Jerome years, I suppose the pessimistic version of interpretation is applicable. Conversely, if the Pink and early Virgin years don't do a lot for you, the optimistic perspective seems more appropriate. Coming back to 'Tyranny of Beauty' then, your dream might assume that 'Tyranny' is the end of another TD era (in fact, Edgar said so himself), a point of change where Edgar and Jerome turn their backs to the approach they have taken over the last years, and retreating backwards into the direction of their more traditional style (hence the flashback to 1979). Craig said in his analysis of the DID chart that we don't seem to like the early 90s stuff. He did _not_ say that we don't like the subsequent releases. In my view, their last two albums _do_ almost sound nostalgic. Maybe your dream indicated a similar train of thought. That's about all I can make of it. Sorry about the length of this post. You're a very patient reader if you've made it to this line. Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5006 Re: A Tangerine Dream (LONG POST) Sean Montgomery Fri 6/13/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 4:30 pm Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: TangerineC@a... > > I have the old purple cover of Tangram, so when I heard about this new > version with the original red cover, I ran right out to buy it. When I got it > home and played it, it sounded almost identical in sound quality as the > purple cover version. I also heard it was mastered with the 20 bit system. It > says nothing like that on the cover or the CD. It only says Definitive > Edition on the Cd itself. Can anyone explain where the idea that it was > mastered came from? Especially with Super Bit system? Again, to me there is > no difference between the purple cover and the new red one. Anyone disagree? The back cover of my version of Tangram (Virgin TAND 11) says Tangerine Dream definitive edition on the top left, and High Definition Remastering, SBM, Super Bit Mapping on the top right, under the bar code. This version has the red cover, and has the incoorect line-up of Froese, Franke and Baumann on the rear and inside, although interestingly it does correctly identify the composing credits as Froese, Franke and Schmoelling. I don't have the purple, original CD version any more, so can't compare the music. Does this help at all? --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 7:27 pm Subject: Re: A Tangerine Dream (LONG POST) Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur Dennis, you frighten me. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'He who laughs last..thinks slowest' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 7:54 pm Subject: Glasgow and beyond... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >I know it's still a long time off, but I just thought I'd >see if anyone was interested. What about you guys in the >north of England (Dave!). Where are you going to see them >(if you're going at all)? Yep, sounds like a good one to me. Glasgow is far easier to get to for us. It's even withing driving distance. Looking forward to the tour already... Cheers David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5043 Re: Glasgow and beyond... Craig R. J. Cordrey Mon 6/16/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 7:54 pm Subject: The next best thing ? Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Did anyone see The Cook Report (ITV in Britain) over the >past two weeks? He set up the daughter of a politician over >here as a new 'singing star' and then used the various >shady and just-plain-illegal methods available to force her >single into the charts. It was quite good because I had >actually seen the hoax singer in various papers and on >various TV shows, thinking she was crap but just accepting >her as the 'next big thing'. I heard about this and it disgusted me. Ladies and Gentlemen, it makes my p*ss boil to discover that these crappy little one-hit-wonders get into the charts time and time again and the real music, the stuff people would love to hear if only the pea brains in charge would give it airplay, gets ignored. It doesn't even make financial sense to ignore huge areas of the market place. Just imagine how TD would go down if they were allowed to play a track like 'Ying/Yang and Tangram Seal' on 'Top of the Pops'? A dance/club track with enough clout to knock 'em dead. But that's the state of the crappy music business these days. By the way, Sam Fox is no pea brain. She's a very talented musician/songwriter if you actually listen to her stuff. She managed to grab the limelight because she was a Page Three model and that kind of sleaze sells in the sick music business. My two Groats... David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5010 Re: The next best thing ? Jim Moore Sat 6/14/1997 2 KB 5014 Re: The next best thing ? Gabe Yedid Sat 6/14/1997 2 KB 5053 Re: The next best thing ? Plumer, Scott Mon 6/16/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 7:54 pm Subject: Famous? Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: ashok prema >I think it's back to what the band have always said - they are not >popular/famous in their own country/home town. Probably just as well since >they have never come across as wanting to be mobbed by fans! Ash, and you are 'popular/famous' precisely where? :) Tsk! Tsk! Couldn't resist it, you little name dropper... As I was saying to Edgar the other night, when he popped round for a quick Biryani and a can of Pils, don't these bloody name droppers get on ya nerves...to which Edgar replied...'Ja. I think there is a song in there somewhere but I think Ash recorded it first...' Working too much again, Dave? Severe sense of humour failure? Laughter daemon not loaded...perhaps. Too much Unix? Certainly. Anyone looking for a Unix support person (ten years experience, C/C++ etc etc)?...Yep, one of those days... Cheers David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 13, 1997 11:15 pm Subject: RE: The next best thing ? Really-From: Jim Moore >Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) >I heard about this and it disgusted me. Ladies and Gentlemen, it makes my >p*ss boil to discover that these crappy little one-hit-wonders get into the >charts time and time again Three words to send that blood temp even higher: 'Billy Ray Cyrus' - jimbo 'The only substitute for brains is silence.' - Unknown jimbo@v... A.K.A. Jim Moore, Atlanta, Georgia --------------> http://www.vivid.net/~jimbo/ <------------------------ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5014 Re: The next best thing ? Gabe Yedid Sat 6/14/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 2:01 am Subject: Re: So much great TD in the past 3 days! Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > > >> to play a bit more 'Goblins Club' stuff. > >> > >> Dennis > > > >HUH? Did something happen to the rest of your sentence, here? > > > >Gabe > > Sorry, I don't know what happened there. What I was saying was that they > also play 'Rising Haul in Silence', but that you're generally right in that I > would have expected them... 'to play a bit more 'Goblins Club' stuff' (end > quote). > > Dennis > Ooh, ri-ight...I totally forgot about 'Rising Haul...'. But all three of these are the most heavily Jerome-influenced cuts on the album. I wonder if what tracks they put in the concert sets are their way of saying which ones they think turned out best--if so, I'd agree with their choices this time 'round. Given the other contents of their '97 tour set lists, I'd say that any of the other cuts from _GC_ would have sounded *very* out of place. Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 2:07 am Subject: Re: OASIS: TD Goes Retro, For Real Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Steven Feldman > it is quite different, sonically--with the exception of one track that > is reminiscent of the languid track from CANYON DREAMS (can't recall the > name) and a track from SHY PEOPLE with a name something like 'Swamp > Voices.' Actually, I think this languid track, which is quite like the > sluggish 'Beach Bay Bunker' (the second of the four tracks on the fifth > DREAM ROOTS CD) in its austerity, is the clunker on the album. Some Are you perhaps referring to 'Cedar Breaks'? I agree it's not the album's standout, but it's certainly not as bad as, say...well, any track I say is an album's clunker may be someone else's favourite...but it's not as bad as 'United Goblins Parade' or 'Elf June'. It actually reminded me quite a bit of 'Gayaneh's Adagio' (this may not be the correct title, after all these years) by Khatchaturian. > folks here have complained about the closing track with all the American > Indian-inspired rattle-shaking and suchlike, but it's this one that drags > everything else down, IMHO. Besides, compare and/or constrast 'Cliff > Dwellers' to this last track, and it's BEYOND THE STORM feel adds a nice > touch. Which one are you referring to here? 'Cliff Dwellers' IS probably the most BtS-like thing on the album, with a nod to _Lily_ as well, IMO. > -- Steven Feldman and Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 2:16 am Subject: Convention of the Ginger G(u)ild Really-From: Gabe Yedid This is just a cute way of introducing the question: does 'Order of the Ginger G(u)ild' remind anybody else besides myself of 'Convention of the 24'? Maybe that's why they stuck it on with a 2nd-generation remix of 'White Eagle'...ya never know... Gabe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5061 Re: Convention of the Ginger G(u)ild Sean Montgomery Mon 6/16/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 2:14 am Subject: RE: The next best thing ? Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Jim Moore > > > > >Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > >I heard about this and it disgusted me. Ladies and Gentlemen, it makes my > >p*ss boil to discover that these crappy little one-hit-wonders get into the > >charts time and time again > > Three words to send that blood temp even higher: > 'Billy Ray Cyrus' > > - jimbo Two words to top that one: Spice Girls Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 4:03 am Subject: Re: An elanic Tangerine Dream Really-From: Vic Rek >All of a sudden I feel someone close to my right side. It's Chris, there >to give me a quick synth lesson. He wordlessly lends a kind of supportive >presence for my situation, which I appreciate. He then proceeds to teach >me a few things about the synths fairly quickly, just enough so that I can >follow along, somewhat. I enjoyed your post. I wish we would have some more 'Elanas' around. I wouldn't mind rubbing elbows with one of 'em some day. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 5:41 am Subject: D:Oasis Really-From: Vic Rek RATING: 1AS I'm sorry to disappoint some fellow list members and friends, but I gave Oasis a good listen again, and I have to say that I'm not impressed with it at all. For those that say this is taking TD in a new positive direction, please wake me up and explain how? Too much positive thinking maybe? I've heard that TD was taking a 'step back' (meaning positive) on this release, but what I hear is more of 'Rockoon' which in my opinion is one of their weakest releases. Maybe when I listened to this I didn't have the right mood, but any great TD release would have always shined through. So please tell me, what's the big deal with this album? I hear the same harpsicord type sounds and everything else from their 90's repertoire that I don't like. Yes, I know it's a soundtrack, but this soundtrack has no vocals or acting so there should not be as many constraints. I remember when I first got the video in November of '96. I had better reviews of this. But I think it was the visual effects more than the music. Now when I really listen to it, the effect is not the same. And what's even more strange, that last track 'Hopi Mesa Heart' (which many have criticized) is my favorite, except for maybe 'Summer Storm'. Different strokes for differnet folks.. Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5027 Re: D:Oasis Dennis Nigbur Sat 6/14/1997 4 KB 5045 Re: D:Oasis Craig R. J. Cordrey Mon 6/16/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 11:57 am Subject: women and TD Really-From: Armin Theissen Hi, there are certainly more people out there who like TD but are not on the mailing list. I just discovered by accident http://mirage.scl.ameslab.gov:80/jc/ Should we flood people like jc who admit that they like TD but are not present on the mailing list with some emails? armin Armin Theissen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Armagh Observatory email: ath@s... College Hill http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~theissen Armagh, BT61 9DG Phone: (+44) 1861 522928 Northern Ireland Fax: (+44) 1861 527174 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5022 Re: women and TD Gabe Yedid Sat 6/14/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 2:19 pm Subject: the soldier Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> Thanks to Steve F's eagle eyes and generosity, I've gotten a decent video copy of the soldier. The movie itself is pretty crappy but the music is pretty decent (an early version of dolphin dance + some pergamon/tangram and logos + unreleased stuff). There is enough separation between the dialogue sections and the music sections to put together a decent cassette tape of the soundtrack... anyone interested? Lars Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5026 Re: the soldier Dennis Nigbur Sat 6/14/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 3:07 pm Subject: an elanic tangerine visit Really-From: Elana who? Really-From: Vic Rek >>All of a sudden I feel someone close to my right side. It's Chris, there >>to give me a quick synth lesson. He wordlessly lends a kind of supportive >>presence >I enjoyed your post. I wish we would have some more 'Elanas' around. I > wouldn't mind rubbing elbows with one of 'em some day. Hey, if you are ever to be in Portland, OR, send me an email ahead of time and I will arrange to meet ya in one of our local excellent pubs for a chat and a few laughs... Portland is rated as only second to Bavaria in the whole world for good, local, microbrewed beer. ;-) ALSO... one of my great dreams in life is to get the heck outta this tiny $!@#$@ apartment of mine, move into a little motorhome, and then somehow work my way accross the USA visiting every person who has ever helped me in the past 10 years. I'd have a web page detailing my adventures so far, and a map showing where it seems I am going next, and stories about the people I meet, etc. That would involve having to stop in a major city ocassionally to find temporary work for a month or two so I could go on, since I don't have much cash to begin with. Thus I'd have to gain some unique survival skills along the way... SOMEhow... Which means... if this dream comes about, then hey, I could stop in and visit YOU once (or anyone living in the States or Canada)! It's a hope... definitely a dream in general that I'd like to have before my life is over. And I'd definitely have some sort of TD-type insignia on the side of my little motorhome. ;-) -Elana Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5032 Re: an elanic tangerine visit Vic Rek Sun 6/15/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 6:33 pm Subject: I'm Baaa-ck! (non TD content) Rehi all, For some reason, I was bounced unintentionally from the ML and before I could rectify the problem, I had a major software Fandango and was without computer or Internet access for ~1.5 months. In the meantime I move the guts of my computer into a new full tower case that I repainted & recovered (I didn't want a beige box) and added a 2.0 Gig HDD and am now running Windows95. I also got a girlfriend during this time. Is it me, or did I just 'Get A Life'? 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way they decide on which instruments to take on the road. /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5028 Re: I'm Baaa-ck! (non TD content) GrafZeigen@a... Sun 6/15/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 6:36 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Mmarce@a... Really from Mmarce@a... Hi, I'm on this mailing list and guess what? I just happen to be a women. I'm really into electronic music. I of course have a wide range of musical interests, but E music seems to be my favorite. I've been on this list for a few months now, but I've never sent out a message till now, because of all the talk about women not liking TD. I think you would be surprised if you knew how many women like this stuff and how many women could get into it. Well, that's must opinion. See ya, Martie Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5047 Re: women and TD Gabe Yedid Mon 6/16/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 6:39 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Armin Theissen > > > Hi, > > there are certainly more people out there who like TD but are not > on the mailing list. I just discovered by accident > http://mirage.scl.ameslab.gov:80/jc/ > Should we flood people like jc who admit that they like TD but > are not present on the mailing list with some emails? > > armin I'm not hot on the e-mail flooding idea, sounds too much like a spam-fest. Maybe one person could innocently invite jc to give the list a try for a couple of weeks. There are a lot of people who seem to get turned off the list because of what they perceive as a high mail volume. Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 6:41 pm Subject: (Non x-ML content) Computer case for sale Mid-tower case w/ power supply Purple fur faceplate purple back-case cover Red power button Green glitter Turbo button 'Aliens Inside' sticker on front Not your average run-of-the-mill looking beige/gray computer box. Immediate occupancy available $250 obo aibohphobia, (n.) The fear of palindromes /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 7:59 am Subject: Re: DVD's expensive?? Part 2 (no TD content) Really-From: Neal McAuley You wrote: >The price on the DVDs will go up substantially when the major >studios decide to support the product Huh? That doesn't make any sense. The prices of laser discs went down or at least settled at their $30 range once LD's caught on (not that they've caught on like videotape >Right now you can't get a significant >title spread, and it will probably stay that way until the market thickens. Some of the studios are simultaneously releasing DVD's with LD's (after the videotape release of course). >There are no current releases on DVD, and there probably won't be any of >these until it shakes out whether the medium is purchase or rental oriented. > And I don't mean Mom & Pop operations but on the Grande Scale; The Big >Vendors I know I've seen some current releases because I go to a store that already rents them as well as sells them. I'm still in for LD's (no money to buy a DVD yet) but I've been asking them how business has been on the DVD's and it's booming. Granted, this store is a little Mom & Pop shop but John, the owner, is very into technology. And Ken Crane's Laserdiscs have started carrying DVD's and they have a very popular website (www.kencranes.com/laserdiscs) so anyone in the world can get both LD's and DVD's through them. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5076 Re: DVD's expensive?? Part 2 (no TD content) PNaunton@a... Tue 6/17/1997 6 KB 5081 Re: DVD's expensive?? Part 2 (no TD content) Greg Heil Tue 6/17/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 8:25 pm Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: 'Jens Peschke' > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > > > Really-From: TangerineC@a... > > > > I have the old purple cover of Tangram, so when I heard about this new > > version with the original red cover, I ran right out to buy it. When I got it > > home and played it, it sounded almost identical in sound quality as the > > purple cover version. I also heard it was mastered with the 20 bit system. It > > says nothing like that on the cover or the CD. It only says Definitive > > Edition on the Cd itself. Can anyone explain where the idea that it was > > mastered came from? Especially with Super Bit system? Again, to me there is > > no difference between the purple cover and the new red one. Anyone disagree? > > The back cover of my version of Tangram (Virgin TAND 11) > says > Tangerine Dream definitive edition > on the top left, and > High Definition Remastering, SBM, Super Bit Mapping > on the top right, under the bar code. > > This version has the red cover, and has the incoorect > line-up of Froese, Franke and Baumann on the rear and > inside, although interestingly it does correctly identify the > composing credits as Froese, Franke and Schmoelling. > > I don't have the purple, original CD version any more, so > can't compare the music. Does this help at all? I own both - the version, Craig mentioned and the original Virgin release. The Virgin TAND 11 sounds much better. Alan, you should sell your 2 versions and try to find this one. If you like Tangram like I do, you must ! Jens Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5029 Goodbye for the time being! Matt Williams Sun 6/15/1997 4 KB 5071 Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Michael Fox Mon 6/16/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 2:06 am Subject: Re: the soldier Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:19:57 -0400 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> > > >Thanks to Steve F's eagle eyes and generosity, I've gotten a decent video >copy of the soldier. The movie itself is pretty crappy but the music is >pretty decent (an early version of dolphin dance + some pergamon/tangram >and logos + unreleased stuff). There is enough separation between the >dialogue sections and the music sections to put together a decent cassette >tape of the soundtrack... anyone interested? > >Lars Well...why not? Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 2:59 am Subject: Re: D:Oasis Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:41:02 -0400 (EDT) tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Vic Rek > >For those that say this is taking TD in a new positive direction, please >wake me up and explain how? Too much positive thinking maybe? I've heard >that TD was taking a 'step back' (meaning positive) on this release, but >what I hear is more of 'Rockoon' which in my opinion is one of their weakest >releases. I agree with your rating of Rockoon, but I like Oasis. For me, they don't have a lot in common at all. Listen to the smooth build-ups of the pieces on Oasis, and the lack of noisy guitar and sax parts. Furthermore, Oasis seems to have a quasi-concept structure (due to its soundtrack qualities), and seems more inward-looking and reflective. In my opinion, anyway. >Maybe when I listened to this I didn't have the right mood, but >any great TD release would have always shined through. It's not _great_ as in being the recording of the century. But in the reviews posted on the list this week (Gabe's and mine), it got 3.8 and 3.6 out of 5, respectively. I have the impression that TD have 'flooded' the market with rather good releases of various styles, so that 'great' recordings shine through less easily. I really like both Goblins Club and Oasis, though, for the reasons mentioned above, which distinguishes them from the 'Seattle Years' stuff, which was, albeit diverse in quality in itself, not really my cup of tea. Which doesn't mean that it's objectively _bad_, though. >So please tell me, what's the big deal with this album? I hear the same >harpsicord type sounds and everything else from their 90's repertoire that I >don't like. Yes, I know it's a soundtrack, but this soundtrack has no >vocals or acting so there should not be as many constraints. I can't really hear a lot of harpsichord sounds...in fact, from recollection I couldn't tell any at all. But you're right about that what this album lacks is a couple of string- or organ-style sounds for the piano-like, percussive sounds to 'stand on' (see my post from yesterday). >And what's even >more strange, that last track 'Hopi Mesa Heart' (which many have criticized) >is my favorite, except for maybe 'Summer Storm'. Different strokes for >differnet folks.. Exactly. I criticised it for not being very substantial as far as not exploiting its capacities to the fullest is concerned. I like the percussions on it, but the melody leaves something to be desired, and I can't really find any chords or harmonics...but again, that's just my own personal view. Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 10:58 pm Subject: Re: I'm Baaa-ck! (non TD content) Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... In a message dated 97-06-14 16:16:15 EDT, you write: << Really-From: Pete Isaacson << 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way they decide on which instruments to take on the road.> I love this quote! Should I try this with my computer, because it's really p***ing me off!?! Maybe not. Anyway, welcome back to the list. :-) Graf Zeigen From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 6:59 am Subject: Goodbye for the time being! Really-From: Matt Williams Well this is hello and goodbye, Due to some circumstnces I am moving away from my town(merseyside) and starting a fresh life in London so after around 3 yrs on this great list its goodbye for the time being...... I am hoping to get email access again at some point but being young and not too experienced I'm gonna have to get a decent job going first before I think about the net.....my mother has email in her house in London but I don't think I'll get on it too much so I have no options :( I'll still be coming back to Merseyside every couple of weeks or so if anyone wants to email me privately they can on : matt@s... Also to the people who I exchange tapes and the like want to do more stuff they can send stuff to the address they have,I'll be moving from that address but my step dad will send any items down to me or I'll just pick thm up when I visit!. Anyway thanks to everyone for the great advice over the yrs like Grant,Craig,Mark and anyone else who I may have missed,your all cool!. I have been buying the castle remasters of the old TD albums lately and I highly recommend them,they have the proper art work and also interesting info in the album sleeves about the album and band at that period of time....I got Tyger today and its the first time I have heard it......I think its pretty ok actually,the vocals are a shock but I do like it! Anyway any londoners on this list wanna meet up at some point then let me know,I don't really know many people in London (can i milk you for more pity:). Anyway cya later cool people and maybe I'll 'bump' into some of you when TD play S.Bush later this yr..I can't wait (for the gig that is:)). MAtt.... MATTHEW WILLIAMS EMAIL: matt@s... 'The times I burnt my guitar was like a sacrifice,you sacrifice the things you love - I love my guitar' - Jimi Hendrix. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 14, 1997 11:19 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... In a message dated 97-06-14 12:13:09 EDT, you write: << Really-From: Armin Theissen < there are certainly more people out there who like TD but are not on the mailing list. I just discovered by accident http://mirage.scl.ameslab.gov:80/jc/ Should we flood people like jc who admit that they like TD but are not present on the mailing list with some emails?> Hi, Armin: I just had to respond to this because of the e-address you gave above [specifically] the 'ameslab' part. I suspect this may be the Ames Laboratory in Ames, Iowa USA not to far from where I live in Des Moines [state capital]. This is a college town where Iowa State University is located and this lab is connected with that. It's quite famous worldwide in the area of physics and astrophysics...in fact, Werner Von Braun worked and taught there later in his life! Therfore, there would be a lot of very intelligent people located at this address (if it is what I think it is). And from my personal experiences in the past, I'm sure there would be lots of people at this University in general who love TD...and would enjoy this list if they new about it! However, I'm not to keen on flooding people's mailboxes with unexpected stuff (I get enough of 'THAT S**T' myself). But perhaps there is a more acceptible approach? Any ideas from the list on 'politically correct' recruitment techniques? Graf Zeigen From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 12:12 am Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... Hi, again: I would like to clairify that I meant 'recruitment' in worldwide terms. But, Universities would be a good place to start. As far as my previous post goes...I could have had my facts mixed up. The Ames Research Laboratory could also involve horses and pigs and things...you know, veterinary medicine. I could have confused the facts with the University Of Iowa in Iowa City (where I went to school many, many moons ago). {even larger and WILDER!} Can anyone help me out here? Graf Zeigen NP: Dark Side Of The Moon From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 3:04 am Subject: Re: an elanic tangerine visit Really-From: Vic Rek >Really-From: Elana who? >>I enjoyed your post. I wish we would have some more 'Elanas' around. I >> wouldn't mind rubbing elbows with one of 'em some day. >Hey, if you are ever to be in Portland, OR, send me an email ahead of >time and I will arrange to meet ya in one of our local excellent pubs for >a chat and a few laughs... Portland is rated as only second to Bavaria >in the whole world for good, local, microbrewed beer. ;-) As a matter of fact, I may have to take you up on that offer. I've got 25,000 frequent flyer points to use on American Airlines before they expire at the end of this year. I never visited the Pacific Northwest. I thought it was more coffee oriented, but microbrewed beer (maybe some Bock) sounds good to me. >ALSO... one of my great dreams in life is to get the heck outta this tiny >$!@#$@ apartment of mine, move into a little motorhome, and then somehow >work my way accross the USA visiting every person who has ever helped me >in the past 10 years. >Which means... if this dream comes about, then hey, I could stop in and >visit YOU once (or anyone living in the States or Canada)! Sounds like a plan. You may want to get your job here first (Atlanta) since the unemployment rate is low. But this wouldn't just be a stopover, because if we had to listen to all of our music combined I would figure it would take at least a year if we averaged 3+ CDs a day. Now if we had to squeeze in a different bar, club, or restaurant every other day, that would be 2 years. Maybe you could organize an 'ATlanta EM Festival' and we could call it ATEM? Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 4:20 am Subject: Re: D:Solo Calendar Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-06-13 19:42:34 EDT, you write: << KLAUS SCHULZE: 34 All releases - really! Feb. 2, 1998 Depending on the response from the list, we may need to extend the Klaus Schulze reviews... >> This is a bit much for me. Although I don't think it's really necessary or even wise to discuss _every_release_ I do think that piling them all up in one week is a bit much. I have dozens of KS recordings and would appreciate the opportunity to thrash out a bit of rhetoric about the various phases of his development as I see it. How about if we take five year periods as a compromise? '78 to '82, '83 to '87, '88 to '92, '93 to '97 might be good, but then I am a FAN. Other thoughts? Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 6:14 am Subject: Re: D:Solo Calendar Really-From: Morgan Marks My first reaction to the solo calendar stretching into 1998 was that I was totally apalled. This is the TD discussion group, not TD and friends... My second reaction was, surely they can be lumped together, maybe two weeks per artist. My third reaction was, why can't we put all the comments/opinions online on one webpage so we don't need a d:topic... I would host the space and organize all commentary about specific albums into their prospective albums and TD eras (pink, virgin, blue, melrose, and TD-lite). My fourth reaction was, in a small way, I agree with spending some time discussing solo artists since TD isn't set to release *new* material for at least 9 months and we've been bouncing from album to album of TD regardless of the d:topic and we've pretty much covered every album in the past 3-5 months of discussions and threads... Through all this thought, I have to say that spending the next seven months talking about solo artists isn't my idea of a TD discussion list... Morgan feldon@n... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 1:51 pm Subject: Christian Mueck-Lichtenfeld Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: 'Christian' > > (on the list for 2 days now - I had not expected _that_ > much messages per day !) > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > panta rhei > ------- __o __o __o > ---------_ \<,_ _ \<,_ _ \<,_ > -------- (_)/ (_) (_)/ (_) (_)/ (_) > > Christian Mueck-Lichtenfeld > Institut fuer Organische Chemie der Justus-Liebig-Universitaet > Heinrich-Buff-Ring 58 > D-35392 Giessen > Germany > > Tel: (+49) 0641-99-34343 > email: christian.mueck-lichtenfeld@o... > --------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Christian! I tried to send you a private welcome to the list. But my mail to: Christian@j... got rejected. Welcome and perhaps you could clue us in on how to send you mail. Cheers -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 9:18 pm Subject: Oasis... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: Dennis Nigbur >I agree with your rating of Rockoon, but I like Oasis. For me, they don't have >a lot in common at all. Listen to the smooth build-ups of the pieces on >Oasis, and the lack of noisy guitar and sax parts. Furthermore, Oasis >seems to have a quasi-concept structure (due to its soundtrack qualities), >and seems more inward-looking and reflective. In my opinion, anyway. I have Oasis now and I'm really taken with it. First impressions were very favourable although the pictures were _very_ similar to the Canyon Dreams video from a few years ago. Very pleasant background tunes with nice images to help get your head together... Cheers David P.S. Here's something for the tech-heads out there. Anyone else heard of a company called PAIA? They sell a superb synthesiser kit called a 'FATMAN' and I'm building one up at the moment on the kitchen table. Extremely good therapy after another (shitty) Sunday in work. Plus, sitting listening to 'Oasis' at the same time, really helps to put your head in order. Just a thought... T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5072 Re: Oasis... Michael Fox Mon 6/16/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 9:18 pm Subject: Electronic versus trad Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: Ian Shillingford >>I often argue about the merits of electronic music with a friend of mine= >>who listens to nothing but jazz. My argument is this: Is a writer any >>less of a writer because he or she uses a word processor? What matters >>is the finished product, not the means by which it is reached. >I'd agree with that! And further: how could someone using 'traditional' >>instruments create a soundscape like Phaedra or Rubycon? >TD works because besides undeniable talent in composition and performance I think what's bugging your friend, and it's a common theme amongst so-called real musicians, is that electronic instruments make it far easier for no talent morons to create 'easy' music. Alot of traditional musicians have spent years practicing and developing their musical skills and it really annoys them when some 'idiot' with a synth, a drum machine and a tape recorder can get up on stage an create the most fantastic soundscapes with little or no effort. It's down to 'expert' systems again with the machine doing a great deal of the hard work. To carry the word processor analogy a bit further, what if you could plug in a 'software' module that could help you write a novel in the style of, say, Jackie Collins? Is it still your creation? Or is the software just filling in the gaps in your creativity? I guess it's the old technology versus progress battleground. Any thoughts, anyone? Cheers David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5050 Re: Electronic versus trad Morgan Marks Mon 6/16/1997 3 KB 5058 Re: Electronic versus trad Mark Filipak Mon 6/16/1997 2 KB 5064 Re: Electronic versus trad GrafZeigen@a... Mon 6/16/1997 4 KB 5069 Re: Electronic versus trad Plumer, Scott Mon 6/16/1997 3 KB 5075 Re: Electronic versus trad Greg Heil Tue 6/17/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 9:18 pm Subject: The button... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: Morgan Marks >I agree with this statement. I came away from Rockoon wishing there were a >more subdued/mellow/depressed... hell, even angry/sad track on it. Not a >single note! I think Morgan really hit the nail on the head here. Is it me or is most of TD's output a bit too bright and poppy at the moment? Where are the more thoughtful, angst ridden tracks that used to characterise their output? As a 'for instance', bits of 'Optical Race' (Gazal, Turning of the Wheel) sound soulful which collide head-on with the bright, uptempo tracks like 'Marakesh'. This mix used to be a strong point in TD's music. I don't really hear this on much of their recent output. Mmmmm.... David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 9:27 pm Subject: Thanks Really-From: Tom Duncan my thanks to all those who helped to get onto the daily digest version of this list. my e-mail is much happier! when my e-mail jumped from a normal 30-40 a day to over 80, it got to be a little bit much. again my thanks to all. tom Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5057 Re: Thanks Mark Filipak Mon 6/16/1997 3 KB 9490 Thanks Lawrysimm Thu 12/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 7:19 pm Subject: Name dropping?? Really-From: ashok prema Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: ashok prema >I think it's back to what the band have always said - they are not >popular/famous in their own country/home town. Probably just as well since >they have never come across as wanting to be mobbed by fans! >>Ash, and you are 'popular/famous' precisely where? :) >>Tsk! Tsk! Couldn't resist it, you little name dropper... >>As I was saying to Edgar the other night, when he popped round for a quick >>Biryani and a can of Pils, don't these bloody name droppers get on ya >>nerves...to which Edgar replied...'Ja. I think there is a song in there >>somewhere but I think Ash recorded it first...' AAHHHH Dave.........methinks the frustration of selling only 6 discs at the EMMA festival is making you a little jealous? You who has 'the inside knowledge' above all people know that I mention names ONLY when demonstrating a point - without it, their would be no validity to that point would there! When the time is ripe, and someone mentions the world famous T-Bass and extols the virtue of seeing them in public and leaving them in peace - despite the urge to talk to them - then I shall take great pleasure in telling the world/Digest that I Ashok Prema have had the pleasure of their company over one weekend when I took them to see the sights of London. I am sure THAT will make me the envy of everyone on the Digest! Ash Ash From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 4:09 pm Subject: Synchronicity:PF,POLICE,TD,'...and your little dog, too!!' Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... I've been thinking about something lately that I felt I would share with you folks. SYNCHRONICITY This is going to require a long post so be forewarned. Since it has been open discussion week on the list, and mail is relatively sparse on the week-end I thought today would be a good time for this - and a good capper for the open discussion. It may not seem like it at first, but 'trust me' [said Jack the Ripper] this thread will wind its way around to TD! First: What is SYNCHRONICITY? I'll just give a brief description and definition rather than a whole textbook (which anyone can find and read on their own, if interested). It is a concept first identified by the parapsychologist and philosopher C.G. Jung in his essay 'Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principal' {extracted from 'The Structure and Dynamics of the Psyche', Vol. 8 of the 'Collected Works of C.G. Jung'}. This is a concept that he spent much of his life developing, and so is too complex to really go into much detail here. A brief definition is: 'A meaningful coincidence of two or more events, where something other than the probability of chance is involved. Chance is a statistical concept which 'explains' deviations within certain patterns of probability. Synchronicity elucidates meaningful arrangements and coincidence which somehow go beyond the calculations of probability.' And further: 'Natural laws are statistical truths[....]The philosophical principal that underlies our conception of natural law is causality. But if the connection between cause and effect turns out to be only statistically valid and only relatively true, then the causal principle is only of relative use for explaining natural processes and therefore presupposes the existence of one or more other factors which would be necessary for an explanation. This is as much as to say that the connection of events may be other than causal, and requires another principle of explanation.' [Other than, or supplementary to, the laws of chance] Now, what got me to thinking about this? Last week a friend of mine, who knows I am a huge Pink Floyd fan as well as a TD fan, found an article somewhere on the Net that he thought I would enjoy. (He was right!) I am going to share it with all of you now since I think many of you also like Pink Floyd and because it more clearly illustrates the principal of synchronicity. << AP 10-Jun-1997 15:32 EDT REF5505 Copyright 1997. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. By LARRY McSHANE Associated Press Writer NEW YORK (AP) -- Lions and tigers and Floyd? Oh, my. Sales of Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon' have soared in the last month since rumors started flying that the spacey British band's classic 1973 album was actually a secret soundtrack to -- get this -- the 1939 movie 'The Wizard of Oz.' The Judy Garland-Roger Waters collaboration, already dubbed 'Dark Side of the Rainbow' by aficionados, has created the biggest hidden-message buzz since people spun their Beatles records backwards to learn if Paul really was dead. Weekly sales of the 24-year-old album have more than doubled since word of the 'coincidence' spread via the Internet, MTV and radio stations. The album, which still sells about 6,000 copies a week, was up to 12,500 copies sold in the last week of May. Music store orders in the first week of June doubled again as publicity about the do-it-yourself production mushroomed. MGM Home Video had no correspoding sales figures for 'Wizard.' The juxtaposition of song and film, intentional or not, is enough to convince anybody they're not in Kansas anymore. Cue up 'Dark Side' when the MGM lion roars for the third time, and this is what awaits: -- To the lyrics 'balanced on the biggest wave' from 'Breathe,' Dorothy teeters along the edge of a fence. -- The song 'The Great Gig in the Sky' plays during the tornado sequence, its music rising and falling with the twister. -- When the movie switches from black and white to color, the cash register sounds at the start of 'Money' kick in. -- The song 'Brain Damage,' with its lyric 'the lunatic is on the grass,' plays as the Scarecrow does his musical number 'If I Only Had a Brain.' -- The album ends with the sound of a heartbeat -- which coincides with Dorothy checking the Tin Man's hollow chest for any sound. 'I'd love to know who actually did this,' said Bruce Kirkland, president of EMI-Capitol Entertainment Properties. 'Who was the first person that stumbled on to this? Who figured out that on the third roar of the MGM lion that it all works out?' There's no easy answer to that question, but morning radio show producer Marty Martinez of WNEW-FM in New York has a solid guess. 'Somebody who should have been going to class just bonging themselves into oblivion,' said Martinez, whose radio station screened a synchronized version of the movie and the album for more than 200 listeners. The band has not commented on the 'Dark Side' mania, not even to its own record company. 'They certainly know what's going on,' said Kirkland. 'But there's no official comment.' Album engineer Alan Parsons has said the whole thing is a coincidence. But on three separate websites, speculation about the story runs wild. One poster said he was now convinced the album's vocals were actually recorded while the singers watched 'The Wizard of Oz.' 'Of course, I was baked,' he admitted. 'So who knows?' >> Well, I was so fascinated by this that my friend and I immediately got together that evening, put in a tape of OZ, inserted the Dark Side CD, and tried it out for ourselves. By golly, it works!! Just as the article had said it would. This got me to thinking about Synchronicity, a concept I had read about many years ago, and an effect I myself have experienced many times in my life. Quite often I am amused by how visual imagery on the television (sound off) will seem to go perfectly with some completely unrelated music going on the stereo. [Of course, this is more pronounced when using 'herbal enhancements' or other 'artificial stimulants' but isn't necessary]. Next: The Police I then recalled an album by The Police called 'Synchronicity' that was about this subject. Apparently, Sting also has an interest in Jungian philosophy. As another illustration of this principal and what it means, here are the lyrics to the song entitled 'Synchronicity': With one breath, with one flow You will know Synchronicity A sleep trance, a dream dance, A shared romance, Synchronicity A connecting principle, Linked to the invisible Almost imperceptible Something inexpressible. Science insusceptible Logic so inflexible Causally connectible Yet nothing is invincible If we share this nightmare Then we can dream Spiritus mundi If you act, as you think, The missing link Synchronicity We know you, they know me Extrasensory Synchronicity A star fall, a phone call, It joins all, Synchronicity It's so deep, it's so wide Your inside Synchronicity Effect without a cause sub-atomic laws, scientific pause Synchronicity.............. Then there was this: An Elanic Dream I won't bore you by re-posting things on the list, but I have seen several excellent postings that struck me as being synchronistic this week. Most notable among them was Elana's dream and the resulting threads (which continue)! Finally: to wrap this up with TD! I have noticed that the music of TD lends itself particularly well to the concept of synchronicity. On many occasions I have noticed that the TD music I was listening to on the stereo seemed to be going perfectly with something unrelated on the television screen. Has anyone else noticed this? Perhaps this is why filmakers and directors like to use their music so much. Perhaps Edgar and Co. are aware of this and consciously try to make music that fits visual imagery? (Of course, when commissioned to do a soundtrack, that's different...it is intentional and therefore would not qualify as synchronicity in this sense) but I've noticed it with any of their studio and live albums, as well. Does anyone have any particular experiences along these lines they would care to share? I'd be interested in what albums go nicely with what films...similar to the Floyd/Oz thing. Discuss! Okay, if you've read this far, thanks for your patience. CLASS DISMISSED :-D Graf Zeigen From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:34 pm Subject: Re: D:Solo Calendar Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Morgan Marks > > My first reaction to the solo calendar stretching into 1998 was that I was > totally apalled. This is the TD discussion group, not TD and friends... I think you'll find it _is_ actually a TD and related/ex artists list (at least the last time I looked at the introductory letter). > My third reaction was, why can't we put all the comments/opinions online on > one webpage so we don't need a d:topic... I would host the space and > organize all commentary about specific albums into their prospective albums > and TD eras (pink, virgin, blue, melrose, and TD-lite). There are a few people on the list who don't have full internet access (like myself until a few months ago), where e-mail is their only access to the on-line community. This is, after all, a mialing list, the point being to mail posts for all to read. However, how about actually having a mailing list web-site? It could perhaps act as an advertisement for the list and attract new members, could be used to refer to members own pages and perhaps have some details for those of us who don't have pages ourselves? Would you be willing to do that, Morgan? Would anyone be interested? > My fourth reaction was, in a small way, I agree with spending some time > discussing solo artists since TD isn't set to release *new* material for at > least 9 months and we've been bouncing from album to album of TD regardless > of the d:topic and we've pretty much covered every album in the past 3-5 > months of discussions and threads... > > Through all this thought, I have to say that spending the next seven months > talking about solo artists isn't my idea of a TD discussion list... Bear in mind that (as far as I am concerned) the 'D:' list is only one thread (albeit pretty constant) through the varius discussions we have on all things TD. This is only a planned discussion list, but anything else is, of course, still open for discussion alongside the 'd:' topic. If TD release a new album (like they did toward the end of the original 'd:' list) we'll all start passing comments on as and when we feel like making them. I'm looking forward to the solo discussions. There are many albums I don't have, but will no doubt be interested in wha the others have to say. Later, --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:18 pm Subject: Re: Glasgow and beyond... Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > > Yep, sounds like a good one to me. Glasgow is far easier to get to for us. > It's even withing driving distance. Looking forward to the tour already... > Okay, that's two probables (Dave and Armin), a maybe (Martin) and a definite (me!). We'll just have to wait for confirmation of the date and venue, and the tickets, and then we're off. Yeah, I'm starting to get a bit exceited now, too. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:25 pm Subject: Re: Flooding e-mails Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Armin Theissen > > Hi, > > there are certainly more people out there who like TD but are not > on the mailing list. I just discovered by accident > http://mirage.scl.ameslab.gov:80/jc/ > Should we flood people like jc who admit that they like TD but > are not present on the mailing list with some emails? Well, maybe not. But, as for a user-friendly way of 'conscripting' new members, perhaps you should just mail him yourself, Armin. Perhaps a mail telling him how much you enjoyed his/her page, and asking if he is aware of the mailing list. It may be worth warning him about the amount of mail that's generated, in case he gets turned off by large amounts of incoming. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:21 pm Subject: Re: D:Oasis Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Vic Rek > > > RATING: 1AS > Hoorayyyyy! Another person who doesn't see Oasis as the new direction of TD. Although I didn't give it quite as low a score as 1AS (I think I gave it 3AS), I did have a battle with Hilmar about TD's future direction. Okay, Hilmar, I've got someone to back me up now (I hope). Wanna start a fight? 8-) Only joking, of course! --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 1:04 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' On Jun 14, 2:36pm, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: Re: women and TD > Really-From: Mmarce@a... > > > > Really from Mmarce@a... > > > Hi, > > I'm on this mailing list and guess what? I just happen to be a women. I'm > really into electronic music. I of course have a wide range of musical > interests, but E music seems to be my favorite. I've been on this list for a > few months now, but I've never sent out a message till now, because of all > the talk about women not liking TD. I think you would be surprised if you > knew how many women like this stuff and how many women could get into it. > > Well, that's must opinion. > > See ya, > Martie >-- End of excerpt from tadream mailing list You should have kept quiet, now you'll be flooded with marriage proposals... ;-) C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 15, 1997 9:28 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Sat, 14 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Mmarce@a... > > > > Really from Mmarce@a... > > > Hi, > > I'm on this mailing list and guess what? I just happen to be a women. I'm > really into electronic music. I of course have a wide range of musical > interests, but E music seems to be my favorite. I've been on this list for a > few months now, but I've never sent out a message till now, because of all > the talk about women not liking TD. I think you would be surprised if you > knew how many women like this stuff and how many women could get into it. OK, then, where are they? Does the tadream list have some kind of reputation as an old-boys club that's scaring more female readers off? So this makes...how many women on Tadream? two? three?? Or is it 'men who like TD also like women who don't like TD'? > Well, that's must opinion. > > See ya, > Martie Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:49 am Subject: How many versions of 'Maedchen '97' Really-From: Gabe Yedid Just how many different mixes are there of 'Das Maedchen auf der Treppe '97'? The two on the '97 tour single are radio edit and full version, respectively. Is the 'Rien ne va plus' mix on the promo single that was advertised on the TD web page the same mix as these 2, or is it a different version altogether? Gabe NP: Order of the Ginger G(u)ild, from the '97 tour single I just can't enough of this track!!! :) :) Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 2:17 pm Subject: Pondering... Really-From: Morgan Marks I touched on this about a month ago, but I've been thinking... Why/how has TD's music evolved into what it is today? I'm going to use the word 'simple' to describe Phaedra and other Baumann era stuff, which will probably bring some heat, but that's the pivotal point of my whole thought... Maybe TD has wanted tons of layers and a faster tempo all along but couldn't with the equipment of the time...That the 70's releases were 'restricted' to 5-6 things going on at once, maximum. Now you've got Goblin's Club with 40 million samples and notes being played here and there. Morgan np: Movements of a Visionary (Phaedra) p.s. Did Movements of a Visionary become the basis of any soundtracks? Perhaps 'Never Cry Wolf'... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 2:12 pm Subject: Re: Electronic versus trad Really-From: Morgan Marks At 10:18 PM 6/15/97 +0100, you wrote: >Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > >Really-From: Ian Shillingford > >>>I often argue about the merits of electronic music with a friend of mine= >>>who listens to nothing but jazz. My argument is this: Is a writer any >>>less of a writer because he or she uses a word processor? What matters >>>is the finished product, not the means by which it is reached. > >>I'd agree with that! And further: how could someone using 'traditional' >>>instruments create a soundscape like Phaedra or Rubycon? >>TD works because besides undeniable talent in composition and performance > >I think what's bugging your friend, and it's a common theme amongst >so-called real musicians, is that electronic instruments make it far easier >for no talent morons to create 'easy' music. Alot of traditional musicians >have spent years practicing and developing their musical skills and it >really annoys them when some 'idiot' with a synth, a drum machine and a >tape recorder can get up on stage an create the most fantastic soundscapes >with little or no effort. I view Tangerine Dream as master composers first, instrument players a distant second. Yes, Johannes can play a mean piano, Edgar does the job on either acoustic and electric guitar, but with keyboards and MIDI, it's obviously knowing where and when to play notes that counts. And this business of, 'let's have four thousand layers' in recent releases... arrrg... Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 1:11 am Subject: D:Solo - Week 1 Really-From: Vic Rek Welcome to the first week of D:Solo, discussion of Tangerine Dream solo artists. This week of June 16, 1997 we would like to hear comments on: Peter Baumann - Romance '76 --------------------------- Please make subject title 'D:Romance '76' when commenting. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 1:00 am Subject: Re: D:Solo Calendar Really-From: Vic Rek >Really-From: Morgan Marks >My first reaction... >My second reaction... >My third reaction... >My fourth reaction... >Through all this thought, I have to say that spending the next seven months >talking about solo artists isn't my idea of a TD discussion list... There may be some interesting information in the upcoming solo reviews. I'm sure there are many list members that would like to learn more about the solo artist's releases, recordings, reviews, etc. Why shouldn't solo works be part of a group's discussion list? So kick back until early 1998 and enjoy! By the way, you are always allowed to hit the delete key when you see a 'D:Solo' topic. And you can always protest by introducing some interesting TD threads! Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 1:49 pm Subject: RE: The next best thing ? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >I heard about this and it disgusted me. Ladies and Gentlemen, it makes my >p*ss boil to discover that these crappy little one-hit-wonders get into the >charts time and time again and the real music, the stuff people would love >to hear if only the pea brains in charge would give it airplay, gets You know, that cheeses me off too, but I look at it this way: It's always been like that, and probably alway will, but the bands that are remembered are the _good_ ones, not the lousy ones. 30 years ago there was just as much junk on the radio as now, but what has survived? Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Convention of the 24 = Order of the Ginger Gild? Yes! Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Convention of the Ginger G(u)ild >Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:16:41 -0400 (EDT) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Gabe Yedid > >This is just a cute way of introducing the question: does 'Order of the >Ginger G(u)ild' remind anybody else besides myself of 'Convention of the >24'? Maybe that's why they stuck it on with a 2nd-generation remix of >'White Eagle'...ya never know... Yow! I think you're absolutely right! Damn! If you hadn't mentioned it, it would never have occurred to me! WHITE EAGLE's 'Convention of the 24' has long been a fave TD track of mine, too. Geesh--this is the most amazing realization of track similiarities since some reviewer pointed out that the Madonna/Lenny Kravitz composition, 'Justify My Love,' was actually a re-make of Kraftwerk's 'Trans-Europe Express'! Good one, Gabe! :) (No *wonder* I like 'Order of the Ginger Gild' so much.) Steven Feldman -- 33 Brook Street, Apt. 3, Brookline, MA 02146; INTERNET: BITNET: DREAMS WORD: Electronic Dreams, POB 42385, Portland, OR 97242. The Nightcrawlers, c/o Peter D. Gulch -- 1493 Greenwood Avenue, Camden, NJ 08103-2929. PERSONAL FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Ozrics, Jonn Serrie, Robert Carty. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ OUT TO PROVE THAT 'THE KEEP' SOUNDTRACK WAS RELEASED TEMPORARILY IN 1984. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5070 Re: Convention of the 24 = Order of the Ginger Gi Gabe Yedid Mon 6/16/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 1:21 am Subject: Tangram Really-From: Mathew Hargreaves Hello all you dedicated TD fans, To clarify the situation regarding Tangream on CD: The first release by Virgin England was with a bright red cover. The front insert had a grey border around the art. The later pressings had the purple cover. The difference between the two is the use of yellow in the first printing, then the company used blue in the later printings of the inserts. This accounts for the color error. The SBM remastered version is in a deeper shade of red that the first pressing and lacks the border on the front insert, and there is a catalog number change. I have all of these so I know. My collection exceeds 160 TD CDs. CHEERS...Matt Hargreaves Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5085 Re: Tangram TangerineC@a... Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB 5089 Re: Tangram Greg Heil Tue 6/17/1997 3 KB 5092 Legend Question Paul Nagle Tue 6/17/1997 3 KB 19968 Tangram John Marchington Wed 12/22/1999 2 KB 20054 Tangram AslanFan1@xxx.xxx Thu 12/30/1999 1 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 2:29 pm Subject: Re: Synchronicity:Peewe Herman and Hale-Bopp Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... > > I've been thinking about something lately that I felt I would share > with you folks. > SYNCHRONICITY Graf!? Have you been drinking your bong water again? I've done careful research and have found that out of 348 movies tested, 347 of them have events that synchronize with 'Dark Side of the Moon.' The 348th is a Peewe Herman movie that's hard to synchronize to anything except Brownian motion. Have you checked the correlation between 'Dark Side of the Moon' and the visual flares from comet Hale-Bopp? For that matter of fact, have you checked the correlation between Peewe Herman and Hale-Bopp? Cheers and thanks for the laughs. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 2:41 pm Subject: Re: Thanks Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Tom Duncan > > my thanks to all those who helped to get onto the daily digest version > of this list. my e-mail is much happier! when my e-mail jumped from a > normal 30-40 a day to over 80, it got to be a little bit much. > again my thanks to all. > tom Hi Tom. You know, when I subscribed only to the regular list I used to anguish over what to keep and what to throw out. It took me forever to got through my tadream mail. Now that I subscribe to both lists, I keep just what I'm currently interested in knowing that my stashed copies of the digest act like backups should I change my mind about a dubious thread. Arf! -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 2:35 pm Subject: Re: Electronic versus trad Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) > ... > I guess it's the old technology versus progress battleground. > Any thoughts, anyone? I have no doubt that people who made their living playing the harpsichord thought the forte-piano was a cheap gimmick designed to make no-talent, failed harpsichordists sound like a whole Baroque quartet, thereby masking their inherent lack of creativity. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:06 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > ... it [popular entertainment] appeals to the white middle-class > notion that everything's all right and everything has a happy ending. > That may explain Americans' preoccupation with musical theater. Huh? Musical theater? Preoccupation? Do you live in Iowa, Scott? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:03 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Mmarce@a... > > Really from Mmarce@a... > > Hi, > > I'm on this mailing list and guess what? I just happen to be a > women. I'm really into electronic music. I of course have a > wide range of musical interests, but E music seems to be my > favorite. I've been on this list for a few months now, but I've > never sent out a message till now, because of all the talk about > women not liking TD. I think you would be surprised if you knew > how many women like this stuff and how many women could get into it. Hi Martie. This thread was begining to take on the aspects of a Three Stooges movie, but since a bona fide woman has appeared, I'd like to invite you to express your opinions about TD. What albums or individual tracks do you like most and why? I promise not to take what you say as representing anything other than your opinion, but as someone from a state (the only state?) with _two_ female senators, I value what women have to say and wish women were more active in _everything_. So how about it Martie? Regards and cheers -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5063 Re: women and TD Sean Montgomery Mon 6/16/1997 2 KB 5087 Re: women and TD Paul Nagle Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:07 pm Subject: Re: Convention of the Ginger G(u)ild Really-From: Sean Montgomery > This is just a cute way of introducing the question: does 'Order of the > Ginger G(u)ild' remind anybody else besides myself of 'Convention of the > 24'? THANK YOU! From the first time I heard it, I knew it reminded me of an early 80s TD song, but couldn't place it! Same with the liitle snippet in San Rocco, which has been identified as Mojave Plan. I should listen to White Eagle more often, methinks. Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'He who laughs last..thinks slowest' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:09 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Morgan Marks > > ... Tangent from Poland is probably my favorite track in the > whole world because it's got everything. 3 1/2 minutes of pure > depression/sadness/determination followed by 2 minutes of > howling and ghosts flying around, and then wham! happy as a clam. Yyyyeeessss! (Exactly) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 4:48 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Sean Montgomery > Hi Martie. This thread was begining to take on the aspects of a Three > Stooges movie, but since a bona fide woman has appeared, I'd like to > invite you to express your opinions about TD. Oh...wise guy, eh? Pestering the woman, eh? Why...you..... POIT! Woo-woo-woo!! Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'He who laughs last..thinks slowest' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5087 Re: women and TD Paul Nagle Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 5:08 pm Subject: Re: Electronic versus trad Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... In a message dated 97-06-16 08:54:07 EDT, you write: << Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: Ian Shillingford >>I often argue about the merits of electronic music with a friend of mine= >>who listens to nothing but jazz. My argument is this: Is a writer any >>less of a writer because he or she uses a word processor? What matters >>is the finished product, not the means by which it is reached. >I'd agree with that! And further: how could someone using 'traditional' >>instruments create a soundscape like Phaedra or Rubycon? >TD works because besides undeniable talent in composition and performance I think what's bugging your friend, and it's a common theme amongst so-called real musicians, is that electronic instruments make it far easier for no talent morons to create 'easy' music. Alot of traditional musicians have spent years practicing and developing their musical skills and it really annoys them when some 'idiot' with a synth, a drum machine and a tape recorder can get up on stage an create the most fantastic soundscapes with little or no effort. It's down to 'expert' systems again with the machine doing a great deal of the hard work. To carry the word processor analogy a bit further, what if you could plug in a 'software' module that could help you write a novel in the style of, say, Jackie Collins? Is it still your creation? Or is the software just filling in the gaps in your creativity? I guess it's the old technology versus progress battleground. Any thoughts, anyone? Cheers David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... >> Yes. IMO synths and the accompanying technology , devices and recording 'stuff' are indeed instruments like any other. You still need to have musical talent, compositional and music theory training, and lots of practice to be any good at it. In fact, it requires more than being just a piano player or drummer, because you have the added complexities of all those knobs and switches and pedals and unlimited arrays of possibilities that the human being still has to control at the same time. The music still comes from the human mind, no matter what the tools available, and you have to know how to use them. It's not as easy as it looks! Even more difficult than traditional instruments, IMHO, (and I work with both). Graf From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 5:11 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >> Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > >> ... it [popular entertainment] appeals to the white middle-class >> notion that everything's all right and everything has a happy ending. >> That may explain Americans' preoccupation with musical theater. >Huh? Musical theater? Preoccupation? Do you live in Iowa, Scott? Nope. Cleveland. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: D: Romance '76 (Peter Baumann solo album) Really-From: Steven Feldman I've got to admit that this--after Edgar's EPSILON IN MALAYSIAN PALE--is my fave TD solo album. I think I like less than RUBYCON, as well, but more than ENCORE, and on par with STRATOSFEAR, like so . . . 10 RUBYCON 9 STRATOSFEAR 7 ENCORE 10 EPSILON IN MALAYSIAN PALE 9 ROMANCE '76 While I think ROMANCE '76 is better than the much-liked PHAEDRA, RICOCHET, ENCORE and SORCERER albums, it still is not as good as the Baumann track on the '70-'80 box set: 'Haunted Heights.' 'Haunted Heights' sounds like a ROMANCE '76 outtake (just as 'Baryll Blue' sounds like an AGES outtake) that was left off because it didn't fit thematically. Lord knows it would have fit on the album--which isn't even 37 mins. long, if I remember correctly. For those who like their TD ominous, baroque, and neo-classical, ROMANCE '76 is right up there with RICOCHET, STRATOSFEAR, ENCORE, and TANGRAM. I think what I like most about ROMANCE '76 and STRATOSFEAR is the use of full-scale sound and very quiet passages . . . making the CDs immeasurably better than LPs because it's hard to eliminate vinyl sizzle in such quiet parts. Speaking of quiet parts, what do the additional 50 seconds at the end of the (extended!) version of PHAEDRA that is on '70'80 sound like? Is it more of the children in the park sounds, or is it something else? Anyone know??? Steven Feldman -- 33 Brook Street, Apt. 3, Brookline, MA 02146; INTERNET: BITNET: DREAMS WORD: Electronic Dreams, POB 42385, Portland, OR 97242. The Nightcrawlers, c/o Peter D. Gulch -- 1493 Greenwood Avenue, Camden, NJ 08103-2929. PERSONAL FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Ozrics, Jonn Serrie, Robert Carty. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ OUT TO PROVE THAT 'THE KEEP' SOUNDTRACK WAS RELEASED TEMPORARILY IN 1984. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5210 Re: D: Romance '76 (Peter Baumann solo album) PhilPDX@a... Fri 6/20/1997 3 KB 5213 Re: D: Romance '76 (Peter Baumann solo album) Capel Martyn Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 7:32 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... In a message dated 97-06-16 13:25:20 EDT, you write: << Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Mmarce@a... > > Really from Mmarce@a... > > Hi, > > I'm on this mailing list and guess what? I just happen to be a > women. I'm really into electronic music. I of course have a > wide range of musical interests, but E music seems to be my > favorite. I've been on this list for a few months now, but I've > never sent out a message till now, because of all the talk about > women not liking TD. I think you would be surprised if you knew > how many women like this stuff and how many women could get into it. > Hi Martie. This thread was begining to take on the aspects of a Three > Stooges movie, but since a bona fide woman has appeared, I'd like to >invite you to express your opinions about TD. Yes, if those of you out there of the female persuasion had made your presence known and contributed sooner...this whole 'distasteful' thread could have been avoided! Graf PS: Hey, Mark....Musical theater?....Iowa? Huh? I don't get it. Are you referring to 'The Music Man' and 'State Fair'? I AM from Iowa and I think I 'resemble' that remark! :-( Seriously, neither of these portray us fairly and we consider them embarrassing nonsense. Have you ever been here? Isn't musical theater a creation of Broadway (NY) and Hollywood (CA) ? The only person I've ever known that actually enjoyed this stuff was my deceased grandfather! One of these days the Heartland is going to revolt and do the Radio City Rockettes' high-step all over you arrogant Coastal dwellers (hee-hee) :-D Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5074 women and TD Michael Fox Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB 5114 Re: women and TD Mark Filipak Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 7:41 pm Subject: D:Romance '76 Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' First thoughts: Only 33 minutes?!? Second thoughts: Great music, but the CD also got tracks with some very simple tunes in it. (but they're OK) For me the CD(LP) begins with Meadows of Infinity pt.1 and ends with MoI pt.2 with The Glass Bridge sitting in between. These tracks are very haunting (mellotron?) and some very effective sequencer-lines/drums. I agree with Steven Feldman about Haunted Heights. I think it should be on this record. Why it doesn't I don't know because HH is probably Baumanns best solo-track. 4AS Marcel Music-page :http://www.pi.net/~m1engels/fsp.htm Email :fsp@p... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5078 D:Romance '76 Vic Rek Tue 6/17/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 8:35 pm Subject: Re: Electronic versus trad Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > machine doing a great deal of the hard work. To carry the word processor > analogy a bit further, what if you could plug in a 'software' module that > could help you write a novel in the style of, say, Jackie Collins? Is it > still your creation? Or is the software just filling in the gaps in your > creativity? I guess it's the old technology versus progress battleground. Good counterpoint. But it's hardly 'writing' then, is it? You're able to produce a passable copy of an established author, but you're creating something in your own style or with your own ability. You're coying someone elses creativity. Let's take that awful song'Ice Ice Baby.' The melody was sampled from Queen's 'Under Pressure,' repeated, then some inane lyrics were added. Did Vanilla Ice (assuming he did the work) 'compose' that song? in the strictest sense, yes, because he put it together and wrote the lyrics. Did he 'create' it? Hell no! Given the equipment, I'm sure I could have produced something just as good, if not better, and I have no musical talent or ability whatsoever. Let's take another analogy: Woodworking. Anyone who can follow directions can put together a piece of furniture from a kit, provided you have the right tools. It's not your creation, you just put it together. But to design and build a piece of furniture from raw lumber requires skill and talent. Then it is _your_creation. Build it from a plan. . . it's not your creation. I think even the best music software doesn't take the place of true talent and creativity in composition. Electronic instruments are merely the means to an end. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 9:48 pm Subject: Re: Convention of the 24 = Order of the Ginger Gild? Yes! Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > >This is just a cute way of introducing the question: does 'Order of the > >Ginger G(u)ild' remind anybody else besides myself of 'Convention of the > >24'? Maybe that's why they stuck it on with a 2nd-generation remix of > >'White Eagle'...ya never know... > > Yow! I think you're absolutely right! Damn! If you hadn't > mentioned it, it would never have occurred to me! WHITE EAGLE's > 'Convention of the 24' has long been a fave TD track of mine, too. > Geesh--this is the most amazing realization of track similiarities > since some reviewer pointed out that the Madonna/Lenny Kravitz > composition, 'Justify My Love,' was actually a re-make of Kraftwerk's > 'Trans-Europe Express'! > Good one, Gabe! :) (No *wonder* I like 'Order of the Ginger > Gild' so much.) > > Steven Feldman -- 33 Brook Street, Apt. 3, Brookline, MA 02146; INTERNET: Hey-hey, I actually found 1 other person who thinks so! There are rhythmic and harmonic similarities I think are pretty apparent--It's more than just the music, though, there's also the 'secret society' concept implied by both titles. Just who are the '24' attending the convention though? The rest of White Eagle has a Southwest U.S. concept; are the 24 some kind of NA Indian council of elders or some such? Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 5:30 pm Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: Michael Fox OK guys---hep me out here. The Tangram I have has the purple color, Virgin is the label and the # is CDV 2147. Thief has a pic of a guy with mirror glasses and a light green border is CDV 2198, and Risky Bus is CDV 2302. Green Desert has a circular pic of sand and some rocks and label is Relativity Theory (under license from Zomba music--on the _disc_ it has Published by Zomba Music and under that 1973 Somba Music, then 1986 Relativity. Anyone familiar with these? Mike At 10:25 PM 6/14/97 +0200, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Jens Peschke' > > >> Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' >> >> >> > Really-From: TangerineC@a... >> > >> > I have the old purple cover of Tangram, so when I heard about this new >> > version with the original red cover, I ran right out to buy it. When I >got it >> > home and played it, it sounded almost identical in sound quality as the >> > purple cover version. I also heard it was mastered with the 20 bit >system. It >> > says nothing like that on the cover or the CD. It only says Definitive >> > Edition on the Cd itself. Can anyone explain where the idea that it was >> > mastered came from? Especially with Super Bit system? Again, to me >there is >> > no difference between the purple cover and the new red one. Anyone >disagree? >> >> The back cover of my version of Tangram (Virgin TAND 11) >> says >> Tangerine Dream definitive edition >> on the top left, and >> High Definition Remastering, SBM, Super Bit Mapping >> on the top right, under the bar code. >> >> This version has the red cover, and has the incoorect >> line-up of Froese, Franke and Baumann on the rear and >> inside, although interestingly it does correctly identify the >> composing credits as Froese, Franke and Schmoelling. >> >> I don't have the purple, original CD version any more, so >> can't compare the music. Does this help at all? >I own both - the version, Craig mentioned and the original Virgin release. >The Virgin TAND 11 sounds much better. > >Alan, you should sell your 2 versions and try to find this one. >If you like Tangram like I do, you must ! > >Jens > > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 5:34 pm Subject: Re: Oasis... Really-From: Michael Fox > David > >P.S. Here's something for the tech-heads out there. Anyone else heard of a >company called PAIA? They sell a superb synthesiser kit called a 'FATMAN' >and I'm building one up at the moment on the kitchen table. Extremely good [snip] Yes David! I first became aware of them around 1974 and bought several of their kits--one was a theramin I still have (in case I need 'Good Vibrations') and a few guitar pedals that were good but my foot was heavier. I think I recall the FATMAN thingy. Let me know how it works. Cheers, Mike From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 5:49 pm Subject: Floyd/Oz Really-From: Michael Fox >Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... > > >I've been thinking about something lately that I felt I would share with you >folks. >SYNCHRONICITY >This is going to require a long post [[snip] The Floyd/Oz thing has been making the papers. I haven't tried it but I'm sure it appears to sync up. Several years back I used the silent SF classic Metropolis and put various TD music over it for a soundtrack. At first, I just slapped the tape in and started Tangram--well the damn thing goes on for about 5-6 minutes completely in sync to the title credits and opening scenes in the movie. Several other cuts through the film were so 'in sync' I couldn't believe it. But I _don't_ think Edgar and Fritz Lang were in synchronicity on this one. And I was just getting into the Cabernet, so that wasn't it. But it was a little weird how it all just flowed as I mixed in different pieces as the movie progressed. (Aside to Phil N.--I haven't forgotten you, one of my VCR's died and I just replaced it)Several times one piece (mostly the older stuff) would just cruise along, the music changing as the scenes would. So some night, I'll pull out Oz and PF, give my senses a 'nudge', and give it a shot. Cheers, Mike Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5134 Re: Floyd/Oz PNaunton@a... Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 5:52 pm Subject: women and TD Really-From: Michael Fox >Really-From: Sean Montgomery > > > >> Hi Martie. This thread was begining to take on the aspects of a Three >> Stooges movie, but since a bona fide woman has appeared, I'd like to >> invite you to express your opinions about TD. > > >Oh...wise guy, eh? Pestering the woman, eh? Why...you..... >POIT! >Woo-woo-woo!! > MOE, LARRY, THE CHEESE! MOE, LARRY, THE CHEESE! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 11:36 pm Subject: Re: Electronic versus trad Really-From: 'Greg Heil' >To carry the word processor > analogy a bit further, what if you could plug in a 'software' module that > could help you write a novel in the style of, say, Jackie Collins? Is it > still your creation? Or is the software just filling in the gaps in your > creativity? I guess it's the old technology versus progress battleground. > Any thoughts, anyone? > No one needs a piece of software to immitate a style of writing. A writer usually unconciously picks up parts of writing styles and writes with a meld of those styles he/she was influenced by. If the writer is not quite experienced enough, and say, wants to write in the style of Charles Dickens or even Shakesphere, I would tend to believe that a software help to create a sense of that writing style would be false to the expressions of the writer. In hoping to not contradict what I first said, I believe a writing style is developed upon how we as writers percieve the world--and we express those things that are important and are what we feel the reader should know... An EM musician finds that sounds other than those natural can express better, more clearly, and more fluidly than any acoustic instruments could. It's a style, of course, but to those who work harder to achieve the same results--there is always something to appreciate in that although. Some people resonante with the skill and time a person takes to learn the acoustic guitar. It is in that idea, musicians taking objects made of wood, hair, and metal and making music from it that gives a feeling to people of a sense of warmness, a sense of an experience, a sense of culture from many centuries ago. It is in that feeling and sense that brings people back to the traditional instruments. In the hectic, computerized world of today--it's an escape for some. But.. and this is why I am an EM fan.. the sound is what is important, as it has emotion. You are not looking at the musician--he/she is not the focus in EM music. It is the sound produced, and that is all that matters to me, not the musician. The pop music of today does have a central focus on the musician and not the sound. The EM is the other way around... Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 1:54 am Subject: Re: DVD's expensive?? Part 2 (no TD content) Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-06-14 17:38:40 EDT, you write: The prices of laser discs went down or at least settled at their $30 range once LD's caught on (not that they've caught on like videotape Some of the studios are simultaneously releasing DVD's with LD's (after the videotape release of course). I know I've seen some current releases because I go to a store that already rents them as well as sells them. I'm still in for LD's (no money to buy a DVD yet) but I've been asking them how business has been on the DVD's and it's booming. Granted, this store is a little Mom & Pop shop but John, the owner, is very into technology. And Ken Crane's Laserdiscs have started carrying DVD's and they have a very popular website (www.kencranes.com/laserdiscs) so anyone in the world can get both LD's and DVD's through them. >> The DVD disk was not designed to compete with LD it was designed as a money maker. LD sales are microscopic compared with Video Tape. Video Tape is the target market. The cost of producing a DVD in comparison to a tape is less than 5%; something on the order of $0.05. And this is now! Now, when it is expensive because it is so new. The question that most marketeers are asking themselves is, 'Can the DVD be a successful rental medium?' There is really very little interest in the DVD taking marketshare from the very small LD market. There is no real money there. But if the DVD can take on the Videotape market and succeed, someone is going to make a killing. The future is in doubt, however. Will Mr. and Mrs. Average dump their cheap VCRs and their poor quality tapes for a chance to experience a good looking and good sounding product instead? The answer is unknown at this point. The Home Video industry is unsure, and at this point unwilling to invest millions of dollars to change formats without a difinitive indicator of the direction of the public at large. They are also unwilling to _double_format_ because this will cost more for all intents and purposes. The industry has the following unanswered questions: 1. Will the DVD take over the Videotape market, even though most people are satisfied with the tape? 2. Is the phenomenon of the CD whiping out the LP going to re-occurr? Most people feel the answer is no. Most people were very unhappy with the LP. 3. Is the DVD going to be a rental or a purchase medium. Most of the public has no interest in purchasing movies. 4. If rented, will the disk last repeated rentals? This is key! What is the DVD failure mode? When a tape is damaged picture quality suffers radically, but the movie keeps playing. A damaged DVD probably will not, skipping, jumping and track locking will occur. Damage is a major element to deal with in rentals. Recently Blockbuster put off considering DVD on a major scale until Spring of 1998. 5. User friendly? Many people I've talked to in the business are impressed with the options available on the DVD, but are disturbed by how complicated the little disks are to access those options. I have a Sony and I am shocked by how difficult it is to get the machine prepared, and then the disk prepared to play, as much as two or three minutes to get everything set up and working; weaving my way through two sets of menus. My wife and child have _no_ interest in taking on the contraption in order to watch a movie. Yesterday I was asked to transfer a DVD to tape so they could watch it. The plug and play aspect is lacking. There are more issues, like pricing levels, distribution, copyrights, but those will work themselves out in the marketplace. But there are also competing technologies which may have a major impact on the acceptance of DVD; like Sattelite TV. With its lousy sound and terrible picture quality, it is still lightyears ahead of broadcast TV, and including the fact that no one cares how bad it is, Mr. & Mrs. Average are happily putting down tap roots into their couches now that they don't have to leave the house anymore for 'quality' entertainment. In just the past few _days_ I've talked to several consumers who say they don't rent any movies any more _and_ don't buy tapes or CDs or listen to the radio anymore. They use the Sattelite Musak channels instead. Now they are using the Sattelite Receiver as their _total_ source of home entertainment. Now that is frightening. Welcome Entertainment Armageddon. Phil Naunton And now this word from Tangerine Dream. . . . . From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 1:53 am Subject: Re: Interesting Experiment Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-06-14 10:32:45 EDT, you write: << Let's all try this, the longest time is the winner of something interesting, maybe a commemorative CD, or a plaque perhaps ;-) >> ........and the shortest time gets the wuss of the week award. My wife usuall fains an important phone call, then, with a pained expression on her face, says, 'Phil, could you turn that down a bit, I can't hear? More. More. More. More. More!' Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 2:00 am Subject: D:Romance '76 Really-From: Vic Rek This is a great solo effort by Peter Baumann. His first and best release. Actually, this is probably in my top five of solo releases (excluding Klaus Schulze). The electronics are simple, but beautiful. The record/CD is quite short. It seems that it just needs a bit more material. I enjoy all the tracks with 'Romance' being my favorite, but they are all interesting. A small note on the back of the CD insert states that Peter used custom built keyboards and synths. By the way, this CD is out of print, so grab it if you see a copy. Much of this material can also be found on the 'Phase by Phase' compilation. I can easily rate this release as 4AS and I may even say 5AS. For some strange reason, this album is one of those solo efforts (like Chris Squire's 'Fish Out of Water' from Yes) that is very special to me. So what the hell, I'll say 5AS for a somewhat biased review on this one. 'This Album is dedicated too.' Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 2:11 am Subject: Re: D:Solo Calendar One cannot forget that there is more to TD than just TD, it's component parts (Baumann, Franke, Haslinger etc.) who have budded off are as every bit as important as the whole. Chris, who didn't record anything solo until his TD departure, gives us a unique musical perspective listening to his music and comparing/contrasting TD pre&post CF one can gauge his contribution to the whole. Just my $0.02 'Mr. Schrodinger, the vet regrets to inform you that your cat is neither dead or alive.' /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 2:26 am Subject: Re: D:Solo Calendar Really-From: PhilPDX@a... In a message dated 97-06-15 01:27:53 EDT, you write: << Through all this thought, I have to say that spending the next seven months talking about solo artists isn't my idea of a TD discussion list... Morgan feldon@n... >> The weekly discussions have always been only a small part of the list. You can still talk about whatever TD stuff you want, and if you don't want to read a subject line with D: solo in it, just delete it. I think discussing some of the lesser known solo works like Steve Joliffe will be very interesting, and I'm looking forward to it. Phil D. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 3:49 am Subject: Re: DVD's expensive?? Part 2 (no TD content) Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > 4. If rented, will the disk last repeated rentals? This is key! > What is the DVD failure mode? When a tape is damaged picture quality > suffers radically, but the movie keeps playing. A damaged DVD probably will > not, skipping, jumping and track locking will occur. Damage is a major > element to deal with in rentals. Recently Blockbuster put off considering > DVD on a major scale until Spring of 1998. I *wished* that when DVD arrived, so did the answer to the scratching problem.. a square case that the disk would reside in that would never allow the disk to touch any hands or get any dust! Right now... DVDs are kinda like using magnetic 1.44 MB disks without the plastic cover--very risky. I rent CD-ROM games--half are scratched beyond use. Imagine the lower tolerences of a DVD disk... Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 5:26 am Subject: Thief CD Really-From: kz7l@j... (Robert A. Harris) Hi all: At the risk of asking what might be considered a dumb question I'll ask anyway... Does anyone on the list know where I might find a copy of the soundtrack for the movie Thief on CD, my Cassette has long since bit the dust and has been given the requisite last rites. BTW Went into a 'hole in the wall music store' this weekend and left behind a 20 Dollar Bill and walked out with the Virgin release of Ricochet CDV-2044 and Cyclone 791011-2. Thanks to all In advance.... Bob Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5084 Re: Thief CD (DJS) Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 6:59 am Subject: Re: Re: DVD Issues (no TD content) Really-From: Morgan Marks At 08:49 PM 6/16/97 -0700, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Greg Heil' >> 4. If rented, will the disk last repeated rentals? This is key! >> What is the DVD failure mode? When a tape is damaged picture quality >> suffers radically, but the movie keeps playing. A damaged DVD probably >will DVD has error correcting, and besides, even if there is a scratch on one area of the disc, MPEG video (yuck!) as stored on DVD consists of 2 keyframes per second which are completely refreshed versions of the image. In other words, someone is standing perfectly still and moves their arm around. Well, for frame #1, MPEG grabs the whole image. For frame 2-15, it only tracks the movement of his arm. On frame 16, it grabs a full frame again. This explains why when someone is sitting *mostly* still, but they are moving a *little* bit, they appear to totally freeze in place and then 'pop' or 'jump' twice a second... MPEG makes me sick because of this frame interpolation. JPEG is so much better because each frame is a fresh, albeit compressed, frame. If there's a screw-up, it only affects 1/30th of a second or one frame. If there's a screw-up with MPEG, the results can last several seconds as the decoder tries to figure out what the heck is going on. Anyone who has DSS knows that during a weather storm, the signal digitalises into mush. You've got parts of people walking around and the various color patterns, or it just freezes on a frame and the sound keeps going. A real home theatre experience! I hope that DVD will go the way of Betamax. After all, Laserdisc 'Criterion' collection versions are still coming out. Also, I think that 20th Century Fox or someone is refusing to output stuff to DVD because of the compression crap. >> not, skipping, jumping and track locking will occur. Damage is a major >> element to deal with in rentals. Recently Blockbuster put off >considering >> DVD on a major scale until Spring of 1998. >I *wished* that when DVD arrived, so did the answer to the scratching >problem.. a square case that the disk would reside in that would never >allow the disk to touch any hands or get any dust! So you're making a major distinction between DVDs and Laserdiscs, right? I've never seen a scratched laserdisc. They've got almost 200 laserdiscs for rent down the street at Blockbuster and even more at AV Plus (some really esoteric stuff!) and I enjoy them at my home often. Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5125 Re: DVD Issues (no TD content) Mark Filipak Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5133 Re: DVD Issues (no TD content) PNaunton@a... Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 7:25 am Subject: Re: Thief CD Really-From: '(DJS)' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: kz7l@j... (Robert A. Harris) > > Hi all: > > At the risk of asking what might be considered a dumb question > I'll ask anyway... Does anyone on the list know where I might find > a copy of the soundtrack for the movie Thief on CD, my Cassette > has long since bit the dust and has been given the requisite last > rites. > > BTW Went into a 'hole in the wall music store' this weekend and > left behind a 20 Dollar Bill and walked out with the Virgin release > of Ricochet CDV-2044 and Cyclone 791011-2. > > Thanks to all In advance.... > > Bob We have Thief on CD. It's the definitive edition and it's $20. Just call Super Collector at 1-800-99-sci-fi to order it. rock & roll dude, Dano From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 7:47 am Subject: Re: Tangram Really-From: TangerineC@a... In a message dated 97-06-17 01:27:30 EDT, you write: >The SBM remastered version is in a deeper shade of red >that the first pressing and lacks the border on the front insert, and there >is a catalog number change. O.k. Well then, I have a red colored Tangram with the same catalog number as the purple cover. The cd itself says definitive edition, but not anywhere on the cover. Nor does it say remastered, just Definitive Edition on the Cd. In case you need to know, the catalog number for the new red covered Tangram that I have is, Carol 1805-2. This is Definetly new. I bought it last week at Tower. And they had a few of these, so it's not an old stock that's been hanging around. What gives??? Anyone??? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 4:04 pm Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Michael Fox > > OK guys---hep me out here. The Tangram I have has the purple color, Virgin > is the label and the # is CDV 2147. This would be the 'second' Tangram release, as per Mathew's information. Not the re-mastered SBM version. > Thief has a pic of a guy with mirror > glasses and a light green border is CDV 2198 Again, this is the original/basic release of Thief, not the remastered SBM version. >, and Risky Bus is CDV 2302. I'd guess, given the catalogue number, that this is also the original non-SBM version. > Green Desert has a circular pic of sand and some rocks and label is > Relativity Theory (under license from Zomba music--on the _disc_ it has > Published by Zomba Music and under that 1973 Somba Music, then 1986 > Relativity. Anyone familiar with these? Again, a non-SBM version. I remember seeing this as an import over here, but never bought it and ended up with the Jive release with the green cover. The SBM version has a close up of the inside of a hot-air ballon, if I remember correctly. > Mike NP : Redshift --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5146 Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Michael Fox Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 2:53 pm Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Paul Nagle ** tadream mailing list wrote to tadream@c... : >Oh...wise guy, eh? Pestering the woman, eh? Why...you..... >POIT! Hey, leave off. Us TD fans don't get much chance to talk to women. Why do you think we're all on the net in the first place? 8-) Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 16/06/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 9:07 am Subject: Re: Oasis Really-From: Hilmar Kraft >Okay, Hilmar, I've got someone to back me up now (I hope). >Wanna start a fight? Sure, Craig. But be warned, we are in the majority, and besides: we are right and you are wrong, so you can never win! :-) Seriously: Speaking about new directions for TD, in the interview with Edgar that was printed in the latest 'Dream Collector', Edgar again promised a suprise in form of a new direction for the next album. He stated that the already-announced major change in style which was supposed to have happened already, could not be realized so far. But now on the next album to come out, many fans will be suprised.... Hilmar Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5098 Re: Oasis Sean Montgomery Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB 8447 Oasis Rich Maggio Thu 11/6/1997 4 KB 9135 Oasis neil vanlaten Fri 11/28/1997 3 KB 9149 Re: Oasis Francisco Salgado C. Sat 11/29/1997 3 KB 9162 Re: Oasis matt knudson Sat 11/29/1997 2 KB 9209 Re: Oasis John Von Pey Mon 12/1/1997 3 KB 9658 Oasis Michael Fox Fri 12/26/1997 2 KB 10044 Oasis Colin Knowles Thu 1/15/1998 3 KB 10049 Re: Oasis Florine Epure Wed 1/14/1998 6 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 9:23 am Subject: Re: Tangram Really-From: 'Greg Heil' ---------- > From: tadream mailing list > To: tadream@c... > Subject: Re: Tangram > Date: Tuesday, June 17, 1997 12:47 AM > > Really-From: TangerineC@a... > > > In a message dated 97-06-17 01:27:30 EDT, you write: > > >The SBM remastered version is in a deeper shade of red > >that the first pressing and lacks the border on the front insert, and there > >is a catalog number change. > > O.k. Well then, I have a red colored Tangram with the same catalog number as > the purple cover. The cd itself says definitive edition, but not anywhere on > the cover. Nor does it say remastered, just Definitive Edition on the Cd. In > case you need to know, the catalog number for the new red covered Tangram > that I have is, Carol 1805-2. This is Definetly new. I bought it last week > at Tower. And they had a few of these, so it's not an old stock that's been > hanging around. What gives??? Anyone??? I have the CAROL 1805-2 release.. it's red in the front, purple in the back.. there is a sticker on the front of the jewel case.. it says: the definitive edition (sp) HIGH DEFINITION REMASTERING (sp) SBM (sp) Super Bit Mapping TM What is the deal with: P (published?) 1983 Virgin Music LTD. C (copyright?) 1985 Virgin Music LTD. on the inside cover? Maybe the sticker is something they put randomly on all releases.. mine has a fairly large SBM sticker... Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 16, 1997 11:10 pm Subject: Corn and Ham (absolutely no TD content) Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... > ... > PS: Hey, Mark....Musical theater?....Iowa? Huh? I don't get it. > Are you referring to 'The Music Man' and 'State Fair'? I AM from > Iowa ... Where the corn is as high as an elephant's eye? > ... and I think I 'resemble' that remark! :-( Seriously, neither > of these portray us fairly and we consider them embarrassing nonsense. Well it was Scott who brought up musical theater. Personally, I quite like ham. Arkansas has chickens and Iowa has hawgs, right? > Have you ever been here? Drove through your fair (ly flat) state on my way to California. > Isn't musical theater a creation of Broadway (NY) and Hollywood (CA) ? Yeah but tell me. Aside from the yearly San Francisco Gay Pride Parade or the Hooker's Ball, when's the last time you heard of American false-ideal music associated with the West Coast? No, it's always Oklahoma, or Kansas, or Ohio -- places like that. (Oooo, Scott's from Cleveland isn't he? Toast any marshmellows on the river lately, Scott?) > The only person I've ever known that actually enjoyed this stuff was > my deceased grandfather! One of these days the Heartland is going to > revolt and do the Radio City Rockettes' high-step all over you > arrogant Coastal dwellers. Wow! I'd like to join in. Can I be Ethel Merman? All kidding aside, I know there's lots of cool people from Iowa. Cheers -- Mark (I'm trying to think. It'll come to me...) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 5:55 pm Subject: Re: New Direction (was Oasis) Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Hilmar Kraft > > > >Okay, Hilmar, I've got someone to back me up now (I hope). > >Wanna start a fight? > > Sure, Craig. But be warned, we are in the majority, and besides: > we are right and you are wrong, so you can never win! :-) The triumph of reasoned argument over physical violence! > Seriously: Speaking about new directions for TD, in the interview > with Edgar that was printed in the latest 'Dream Collector', > Edgar again promised a suprise in form of a new direction for the > next album. > > He stated that the already-announced major change in style > which was supposed to have happened already, could not be > realized so far. But now on the next album to come out, many > fans will be suprised.... I seem to remember that earlier this year (or late last year) they were talking about releasing a new studio album in the autumn of this year. Is this still feasible, do you think? They'll have been on the road (on and off) from November '96 to July '97, and then they're back on the road again in November '97. Isthat long enough in the studio to write and record new material? I certainly hope so - it would (hopefully) mean that the UK tour later this year would have a new set rather than copies of the European sets which are, mainly, copies ofthe Shepherd's Bush sets. New live music in November, chaps? (oops, sorry, and chappettes). NP : Global Communications - Remotion --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5093 Re: New Direction (was Oasis) Paul Nagle Tue 6/17/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 2:53 pm Subject: Legend Question Really-From: Paul Nagle Hey gurus, I just got Legend from a friend in the States and have a question or three... * The Jon Anderson track - did he write this or did TD? On my version it seems to fade prematurely (just as the cool tune comes in, irritatingly enough) - I'm sure I had a cassette copy once that was totally different to this one. Any idea on the 'correct' running time? * Did JA everything - it says 'performed by Jon Anderson' and 'mixed/engineered by TD and some other bloke' - what gives? * Did TD have anything to do with the awful Bryan Ferry effort? Thanks gang! Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 16/06/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 7:25 pm Subject: Re: New Direction (was Oasis) Really-From: Paul Nagle ** tadream mailing list wrote to tadream@c... : >> realized so far. But now on the next album to come out, many >> fans will be suprised.... 8-) >again in November '97. Isthat long enough in the studio to >write and record new material? Just a thought: people should not write music in the studio. End of thought. It's sunny today.... Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 16/06/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Whatsa Matta? You No Like Roxy Music, or Sumpin'? Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Legend Question >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 07:53:40 GMT >Really-From: Paul Nagle > >* The Jon Anderson track - did he write this or did TD? [. . .] TD wrote the music. MCA--much to Edgar's chagrin--went and hired Anderson behind TD's collective back. It's Anderson who wrote and sang the lyrics. >* Did TD have anything to do with the awful Bryan Ferry effort? There's only one bad thing about Ferry's 'Is Your Love Strong Enough,' and that's that it is what was responsible for holding up the CD release of LEGEND for so long. On its own merits, it's a really good song, IMHO. I used to be a Bowie/Roxy Music/Eno/Kraftwerk/disco collector, so I've heard most of what Roxy Music & (Roxy Music founder) Bryan Ferry have done. 'Is Your Love Strong Enough' is really pretty good; in fact, better than much of Roxy's last two studio albums, FLESH + BLOOD and AVALON. As for Ferry on his own, it ranks pretty high, as far as I'm concerned. -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5100 Re: Whatsa Matta? You No Like Roxy Music, or Sum Paul Nagle Tue 6/17/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 1:30 pm Subject: RE: Legend Question Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >* The Jon Anderson track - did he write this or did TD? On my version >it seems to fade prematurely (just as the cool tune comes in, >irritatingly enough) - I'm sure I had a cassette copy once that was >totally different to this one. Any idea on the 'correct' running time? It was a TD track that the soundtrack's producers (MCA, I believe) added Jon Anderson's vox to. There is a track that is LbtS sans vocals on the soundtrack, but the title escapes me at the moment. They did perform it live in '86, with Ed singing JA's part. Just kidding. They did it sans vox. Time is 5:57 on my LP. >* Did JA everything - it says 'performed by Jon Anderson' and >'mixed/engineered by TD and some other bloke' - what gives? TD - music, JA - vox. The second engineer was the guy who added the vox. Frankly, I don't mind the vocal track. JA's voice lends itself well to TD's music, IMHO. If they were going to try another voal experiment, I'd prefer Jon Anderson. >* Did TD have anything to do with the awful Bryan Ferry effort? No, thankfully. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 1:34 pm Subject: theif Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> Someone asked about 'Thief' yesterday on the list. This CD is infernally hard to find in the US in either the SBM or earlier editions yet it is quite easy to find in the UK (at least). I'm sure that if you can't (or don't want to) find it via mailorder, you could arrange a trade or purchase with one of our UK members (Craig, Andy, Armin, someone?)... cheers Lars From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Re: Theif SBM & Others Really-From: Andy Bloyce <100703.542@C...> >Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> >Someone asked about 'Thief' yesterday on the list. This CD is infernally >hard to find in the US in either the SBM or earlier editions yet it is >quite easy to find in the UK (at least). I'm sure that if you can't (or >don't want to) find it via mailorder, you could arrange a trade or purchase >with one of our UK members (Craig, Andy, Armin, someone?)... >cheers >Lars Andy Here ... My local shop can do it for between 8 and 9 UK Pounds. I'll get a firm price if there's any interest. Trades/Purchases can be arranged. Let me know. C&D Services also do it for 7.99 UK pounds (excl. postage) until 18th July, as well as all the other SBMs. I have also seen most (several deep) of the Essential Remasters for about 5 UK Pounds (still shrink-wrapped). No guarantees there are still there though. Andy Gone ... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5117 Re: Theif SBM & Others anunes@m... Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 3:57 pm Subject: Re: Oasis Really-From: Sean Montgomery Oh, damn. I thought this thread was about those 'Wonderwall' guys! :-) Sean Montgomery 3D ANIMATOR http://www.topix.com/~sean 'He who laughs last..thinks slowest' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: OASIS Ain't No Wonderwall, But It's Wonderful! ;) Really-From: Steven Feldman >Re: Oasis >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:57:44 -0400 (EDT) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Sean Montgomery > >Oh, damn. I thought this thread was about those 'Wonderwall' guys! >:-) Gack! That song makes me want to retch: 'And after allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll, it's my wonder-wawwwwwwwwwww-awwwwwwwwwww-allllllllllllllllllll.' And you thought the *S-Girls* were annoying?!?!? :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 9:46 pm Subject: Re: Whatsa Matta? You No Like Roxy Music, or Sumpin'? Really-From: Paul Nagle ** tadream mailing list wrote to tadream@c... : > TD wrote the music. MCA--much to Edgar's chagrin--went and hired >Anderson behind TD's collective back. It's Anderson who wrote and sang >the lyrics. Shame, I had this vision of TD working in the studio with JA which would put him in an interesting position to compare the working methods of TD, Kitaro, Vangelis...it's a great track anway... 8-) And no, Roxy Music don't do anything for me apart from the occasional cool album cover....the only guy who sounds more weary than Mr Ferry is David Essex..... Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 16/06/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 5:43 pm Subject: Tournado/Maedchen auf.../Orb mix Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) Today I was looking for these new TD releases but I did not find one of them in the shops. Maybe Tournado was not released yet but the two MCD were (or am I wrong?). Orb mix of 'Towards the evening star': Which tracks does this CD contain and is it worth buying it? Das Maedchen auf der Treppe: Are there any differences between this CD and the limited tour CD? I thought Hamburg is a big town and that it should be possible to get these releases but maybe this town isn't big enough ;) Rüdiger E-mail: ruediger.illg@h... Home of CONSCIENCE: http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2294 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5158 Re: Tournado/Maedchen auf.../Orb mix Jens Peschke Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 8:28 pm Subject: Tangerine Dream Videos Really-From: TangerineC@a... Are there any TD videos of there early years? Any bootlegs or legal releases? By early years I mean anywhere from 1969 to early 80's. Oh yeah, and where can I get them? Thanks in advance. Tom Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5137 Re: Tangerine Dream Videos Plumer, Scott Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 11:16 pm Subject: Oh shut up Ash... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, 'Put down' mode... >AAHHHH Dave.........methinks the frustration of selling only 6 discs at the >EMMA festival is making you a little jealous? >You who has 'the inside knowledge' above all people know that I mention >names ONLY when demonstrating a point - without it, their would be no >validity to that point would there! Oi! Matey peeps! Might I kindly point out that you sold even fewer discs than me at EMMA. At least we were able to afford a slap up nosh at Derby's finest Curry House... T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 11:16 pm Subject: Electronic versus Trad... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: Mark Filipak >I have no doubt that people who made their living playing the >harpsichord thought the forte-piano was a cheap gimmick designed to make >no-talent, failed harpsichordists sound like a whole Baroque quartet, >thereby masking their inherent lack of creativity. -- Mark It was never the same after they did away with the 'Sackbutt'. Now there was an instrument you _really_ could play! :) Cheers David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 11:16 pm Subject: Iowa and women... Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all (again) Another piece of non-TD related trivia : >Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... >PS: Hey, Mark....Musical theater?....Iowa? Huh? I don't get it. Are you >referring to 'The Music Man' and 'State Fair'? I AM from Iowa and I think I >'resemble' that remark! :-( Hey, Captain Kirk was from Iowa so it can't be all that bad, can it? Or was it Idaho...? Oh never mind... >Yes, if those of you out there of the female persuasion had made your >presence known and contributed sooner...this whole 'distasteful' thread could >have been avoided! No, I disagree. This whole 'women and TD' thread is very important. I'm seriously into TD in a big way and I would like more people to get into TD because the music is so much better than alot of the utter dross out there i.e. Spice Girls. Knowing something about the marketplace and potential customers might also help my own record sales. Hence, listening to other opinions on the subject is highly relevant to me. Look at it this way...At least this thread didn't degenerate into a 'How big are Linda Spa's hooters?' kind of arguement. Now that's distasteful... Plus once, just once, it would be nice to be able to mention TD in a conversation without the other person looking at you as if you're the bloody Mekon! (Dan Dare's Venusian adversary for those not fortunate enough to be brought up on comic books like 'Ranger'... showing your age now, Dave...) David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Tue Jun 17, 1997 11:25 pm Subject: Re: Synchronicity Really-From: 'K.E' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: GrafZeigen@a... > <...Sales of Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon' have soared in the From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 3:04 am Subject: Robert Forman please e-mail me Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> Is Robert Forman still on this list? If so, please e-mail me off list as I've lost your e-mail address. thanks Lars From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 5:16 am Subject: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: Mark Filipak Hi All. Well, taking what people who attended that concert have said about the 8 Jun 1986, Albuquerque show (that 'Livemiles' bears no resemblance to that show) and having now obtained and played both 'Antarktis' and '20th Century Serenades' (the boots from the 1 Aug 1987 Berlin show) it is clear to me that either a lot of people are deluded (including myself) or 'Livemiles' is indeed a total fraud. Pending futher information, I choose to believe that 'Livemiles' is indeed a fraud and should rightly be named 'Studiomiles' as some folk have been insisting. This brings up a discography mystery. Edgar states on the TD web page that the Berlin show was Chris' last collaboration as part of TD. If this is true, and if the second half of 'Livemiles' (Berlin) is a fabrication -- it sure sounds like it to me! -- then there can be only three possible conclusions: 1) Edgar, Chris, and Paul, together, recorded the last three tracks of 'Livemiles' _prior_ to the concert -- possibly during rehearsals, or 2) The last 3 tracks of 'Livemiles' were done _after_ the Berlin show _without_ Chris, or 3) Edgar's recollection is wrong and 'Livemiles' was done _after_ the Berlin show and _with_ Chris -- making this the last time they collaborated. Does anybody know the truth? This also brings up an interesting relationship: Peter left the band after the mysterious 2nd North American concert in July of 1977 -- does anyone know where and when that show happened? Chris left the band after the Berlin concert in August 1987. Paul left the band after the Bristol concert in November 1990 (see note below). Linda left the band after the Shepherds Bush concert in November 1996. Note about Paul: According to my records, TD did just three projects in the year after the Bristol show and prior to signing with Miramar: - 'I Just Want to Rule My Own Life Without You' - 'Rumplestiltskin' - 'Highway to Hell' soundtrack I know that 'L'affair Wallraff' as done around the time of the UK 'Melrose' tour (25 Oct - 6 Nov 1990, Bristol being the last venue) but all I know about 'L'affair Wallraff' is that it was recorded sometime in 1990 (I don't care when it was released, only when it was recorded). The point is that Paul was part of 'L'affaire Wallraff' and if it was recorded during the last two months of 1990, ie, after the tour, then _it_ was Paul's last collaboration, but if 'L'affaire Wallraff' was recorded before the tour as I suspect, then _Bristol_ was the last we saw of Paul as a member of TD. Does anybody know which is correct? I guess the salient question here is: When was 'L'affaire Wallraff' finished? Or stated the other way around: What was Paul's last project with TD? Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Cheers -- Mark (please no 'I told you so's,' okay? Edgar's still tops with me and I don't care about a little fraud now and then amongst friends -- no harm, no foul. We've got the two boots _plus_ 'Livemiles.' Now all we need is a boot of the actual Albuquerque show to make it all complete.) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5124 Re: Studiomiles Mystery John Christian Wed 6/18/1997 4 KB 5138 Re: Studiomiles Mystery Plumer, Scott Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5144 Re: Studiomiles Mystery Morgan Marks Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5160 Re: Studiomiles Mystery Greg Heil Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5163 Re: Studiomiles Mystery Morgan Marks Wed 6/18/1997 4 KB 5166 Re: Studiomiles Mystery Greg Heil Thu 6/19/1997 5 KB 5169 Re: Studiomiles Mystery Hermes Guzman Thu 6/19/1997 5 KB 5185 Re: Studiomiles Mystery Mark Filipak Thu 6/19/1997 4 KB 5215 Re: Studiomiles Mystery John Christian Fri 6/20/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 4:19 am Subject: A Time For Heroes Really-From: Mark Filipak Hi All. Duck! Questions follow. A Time For Heroes -- what I know about it: 12' Side 1: 'A Time For Heroes' [4:52] - Meatloaf & Brian May Side 2: 'A Time For Heroes, Single Instrumental' [4:10] - TD CD5 1: 'A Time For Heroes' [4:52] - Meatloaf & Brian May 2: 'A Time For Heroes, Single Instrumental' [4:10] - TD 3: 'A Time For Heroes, Extended Version Instrumental' [6:30] - TD Note: I don't have this and haven't heard it. Questions: 1- Does TD or Meatloaf play during the vocal? 2- Does just Brian May sing during the vocal or does Meatloaf sing too (I'm ignorant -- is Meatloaf a singer too?) 3- Did Meatloaf write this or did TD write it? I have looked everywhere for the answers. Any help is appreciated. Cheers -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5143 Re: A Time For Heroes Jim Moore Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5390 Re: A Time For Heroes Mark Filipak Thu 6/26/1997 3 KB 5618 Re: A Time For Heroes Dave Steiner Thu 7/3/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:05 am Subject: Re: Mailing List Website Really-From: Morgan Marks At 09:34 AM 6/16/97 GB-EIRE, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > >> Really-From: Morgan Marks >> >> My third reaction was, why can't we put all the comments/opinions online on >> one webpage so we don't need a d:topic... I would host the space and >> organize all commentary about specific albums into their prospective albums >> and TD eras (pink, virgin, blue, melrose, and TD-lite). > >However, how about actually having a mailing list web-site? >It could perhaps act as an advertisement for the list and >attract new members, could be used to refer to members >own pages and perhaps have some details for those of us who >don't have pages ourselves? Would you be willing to do >that, Morgan? Would anyone be interested? I am fully capable of running such a site, regardless of how much information would be involved. I actually posted this request to the mailing list earlier and it was completely ignored. I was hoping to do an 'excruciatingly detailed discography' which would contain editorial/historical/humorous/technical comments about the production and release of every single TD release. Not ratings, per se, but how the releases compare to boots, etc. This could be a subset of a mailing list webpage. >I'm looking forward to the solo discussions. There are many >albums I don't have, but will no doubt be interested in wha >the others have to say. I still haven't heard a single note of Schmoelling's solo work, I'm missing life, aren't I?! Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5113 Re: Mailing List Website Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 6/18/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:11 am Subject: Tangram -- Help Please Really-From: Mark Filipak May I take this opportunity to get some of my questions answered re: 'Tangram?' My discography on this album is frighteningly large. I won't be obnoxious and post the whole thing, just what remains a mystery to me: Compact Disc releases I have questions about... CD TANGRAM (unknown cover) [AAD] Tracks: 1,2 [1984] Virgin (DE) 610 372-225 If you have this Please tell me what cover it has. Original cover: white streaks/red bkgnd; no border; tangram logo in upper left. Streaks/red cover: streaks/red bkgnd; grey border; no logo. Streaks/purple cover: streaks/purple bkgnd; grey border; no logo. It's probably 'Purple border cover' but I'd like to confirm it. As an original release, if it was coincident with the UK release, it _may_ have 'Red border cover.' Next... CD TANGRAM (unknown cover) [A?D] Tracks: 1,2 [19??] Virgin (DE) 610 380 [19??] Blue Plate (GB) [1995] ???... (DE) ???... BP001805 The first one: [19??] Virgin (DE) 610 380 plus the second one: [1995] ???... (DE) ???... should probably be simply combined like this: [1995] Virgin (DE) 610 380 but I can't definatively say that until someone (in Germany?) confirms it -- please look in your collection. Is it AAD or ADD? -- Probably ADD if Virgin, 610 380 is a 1995 release. And which cover does it have? The third one: [19??] Blue Plate (GB) BP001805 needs a complete release date, whether it's AAD or ADD, and what cover it has. Please? (Note that Blue Plate is a division of Virgin.) Thanks for any help. Cassette releases I have questions about... MC TANGRAM (unknown cover) Tracks: Side 1: 1 / Side 2: 2 [1980] VI/JEM (US) VIC 2147 [1980] Virgin/Ariola (ES) [1980] Virgin (AU) VC 2147 I-402169 [1980] Virgin/Ariola (DE) [1980] Virgin/Dischi Recordi 402 169-352 (IT) VIK 712154 [1980] Virgin/Ariola (NL) [1980] Virgin (FR) 202.169 402 169 AE 230 [1980] Virgin (CA) VL 42205 [1980] Virgin/Polydor (FR) [1980] Virgin/Festival (AU) 3222756 C 37268 As you can see, this is complete except that I don't know what cover art they have. To my knowledge there were only two covers for cassettes and they were different from both the LPs and CDs: Red logo cover: red tangram logo/white bkgnd; no streaks. Black logo cover: black tangram logo/white bkgnd; no streaks. Since not too many people are going to have the cassettes, especially the Italian, French, Australian, or Spanish cassettes, these will probably remain a mystery. But I suspect they all have the 'red logo cover' as the only cassette release confirmed to have the 'black logo cover' was in 1985 and all the above were released in 1980 -- the year of original release. And that first cassette release: [1980] Virgin (GB) TCV 2147 is confirmed to have the 'red logo cover.' Thanks for any help. Cheers -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5150 Re: Tangram -- Help Please TangerineC@a... Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5152 Re: Tangram -- Help Please Michael Fox Wed 6/18/1997 5 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:28 am Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: 'Jens Peschke' > ... > I own both - the version, Craig mentioned and the original Virgin > release. The Virgin TAND 11 sounds much better. > > Alan, you should sell your 2 versions and try to find this one. > If you like Tangram like I do, you must ! > > Jens I concur with Jens. If someone is putting 'Definitive Edition' on the CD but the backpaper doesn't say 'SBM' -- and especially if there is no sound improvement -- then someone is pulling a fast one and we should all know about it. I have TAND 11 and the sound improvement of the SBM is dramatic. I assume that the new US release (Caroline, 1704 1805 2) is also SBM and says so. I guess any release other than these two are suspect. If you have a 'bogus' Definitive Edition (sorry, I haven't been keeping names) please contact me off-list. Thanks -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5115 Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Mark Filipak Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5148 Re: Tangram Definitive Edition TangerineC@a... Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5149 Re: Tangram Definitive Edition TangerineC@a... Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5187 Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Mark Filipak Thu 6/19/1997 5 KB 5212 Re: Tangram Definitive Edition TangerineC@a... Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 4:00 pm Subject: Re: Mailing List Website Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Morgan Marks > > I am fully capable of running such a site, regardless of how much > information would be involved. I actually posted this request to the mailing > list earlier and it was completely ignored. I was hoping to do an > 'excruciatingly detailed discography' which would contain > editorial/historical/humorous/technical comments about the production and > release of every single TD release. Not ratings, per se, but how the > releases compare to boots, etc. This could be a subset of a mailing list > webpage. I didn't ignore your post as such, just didn't send one of those 'me, too' replies. I do think it would be a good idea, especially if you have a large area - we could add a 'Rogue's Gallery' with pictures of list members so we all know what we look like! I guess the first step would be to talk nicely to people like Mark and Steve and ask if you can put their (combined) discographies on the page, as a basis. I certainly agree with your original sentiment that there is a lot of information passed around this list which doesn't really get gathered and stored for later use (other than the archives, which aren't easy to use). > >I'm looking forward to the solo discussions. There are many > >albums I don't have, but will no doubt be interested in wha > >the others have to say. > > I still haven't heard a single note of Schmoelling's solo work, I'm missing > life, aren't I?! In a word, Yes! I have his firs three solo releases (Wuivend Riet, Zoo of Tranquility and White Out) and they are all very good. You might have a problem finding them now, though. I think they're all OOP, at least until TDI's much publicised rerelease of ZoT, anyway. NP : Skyrider - Paul Nagle --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 8:01 am Subject: Re: women and TD Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Paul Nagle > > ** tadream mailing list wrote to tadream@c... : > > >Oh...wise guy, eh? Pestering the woman, eh? Why...you..... > >POIT! > Hey, leave off. Us TD fans don't get much chance to talk to women. Why > do you think we're all on the net in the first place? > 8-) > Paul For the X-rated stuff we've all heard about of course! Find any yet? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:56 am Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Michael Fox > > OK guys---hep me out here. The Tangram I have has the purple color, > Virgin is the label and the # is CDV 2147. ... This is the 1985 release. The original, 1984 CD release had a red background. Then they screwed up the color for succeeding releases. > ... Thief has a pic of a guy with mirror glasses and a light green > border is CDV 2198, ... This is the origianl CD release in 1985 -- the LP release was 1981. > ... and Risky Bus is CDV 2302. ... There were two releases. The original was in a blue frame (almost indistingushable) and the second was in a black frame (very pronounced). Both were released as CDs in 1985 -- the LP release was 1984. > ...Green Desert has a circular pic of sand and some rocks and label > is Relativity Theory (under license from Zomba music--on the _disc_ > it has Published by Zomba Music and under that 1973 Somba Music, > then 1986 Relativity. ... This one is harder. There were five releases from Relativity -- all in 1986 (couldn't get their act together?): 1- 88561-8072-2 on cover and disc 2- TRCD 8072 on cover, EMCD 8072 on disc 3- EMCD 8072 on cover and disc 4- EMCD 8072 on cover, 88561-8072-4 on disc If you want to look at who mastered it, then 3 above divides in two, but that's nitpicking. To my knowledge, they all had the original cover you described except for #2, which had the words 'TANGERINE DREAM' in red instead of dark green. Cheers and I hope I've helped. -- Mark (Questions like these is why I'm doing a definitive discography.) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 8:23 am Subject: New TD album?/TD on TV Really-From: Hilmar Kraft If I may reply to two messages at once: Craig wrote: >I seem to remember that earlier this year (or late last >year) they were talking about releasing a new studio album >in the autumn of this year. Is this still feasible, do you >think? They'll have been on the road (on and off) from >November '96 to July '97, and then they're back on the road >again in November '97. Is that long enough in the studio to >write and record new material? And Paul wrote: >Just a thought: people should not write music in the studio. End of >thought. Well...they don't! They compose music on flights using laptops! So I think it is very possible that we see a new album this year. Where did I get this info from? Well, to our big suprise we had a half-hour show broadcast on German TV on Monday, two days ago, entitled 'Tangerine Dream - the best-payed rehearsal band of all times'. This was even more suprising as this show ran on Germany's number one commercial station RTL at 11:00pm, where they normally still cash in on large audiences showing some crime shows or 'Reality-TV'. Anyway, on Monday we actually got 27 minutes of TD. The show consisted mainly of an interview with Edgar interspersed with video footage from the 1997 European tour. They also showed an excerpt from Three Phase, and to illustrate the older days a bunch of still pictures from earlier times (all of which we already knew from the homepage or the various booklets in 70-80 or Tangents). No old footage or music was played. The interview was interesting, as it only dealt in part with the band history (which of course revealed nothing new) but also had Edgar presenting some of his personal views on music, art, the human mind, the sixties, and other such topics not directly related to TD. Anyway, one question asked was: When do you compose? To which Edgar replied: Always, any time, everywhere. He then explained that they all have these laptops with soundcards, MIDI and little mini-keyboards to plug into the laptops and whenever they are on a long flight, which happens quite often, they use them to compose... Before anyone asks about the strange title: This actually is what Edgar said about the earlier years of the band: All they ever did on stage was improvising, thus: people actually paid money to see a band rehearsing...hence the title. Hilmar Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5118 Re: New TD album? Paul Nagle Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 6:14 pm Subject: Re: Re: Theif SBM & Others Really-From: anunes@m... I received yesterday the summer catalogue of Gema Records UK, and 'Thief' (remastered) is on it for 7.95 UK Pounds. They have lots of TD remastered CD's from 'Electronic Meditation' till 'Livemiles'. BTW, I ordered them recently the remastered 'Poland' (I have only the 'incomplete' CD), and also the 2 CD's version of 'Dream Mixes'. Antonio Nunes From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 5:29 pm Subject: Re: New TD album? Really-From: Paul Nagle ** tadream mailing list wrote to tadream@c... : >Well...they don't! They compose music on flights using laptops! So I think >it is very possible that we see a new album this year. I guess it's down to the meaning of 'compose'. For me, if I did anything on a flight with a laptop, it might be to 'record' music that I had already composed, try out variations on stuff that was running through my head etc. etc. It's not a point worth labouring as everyone works differenly but I reckon music made by doodling away with synthesizers until you 'hit on something' is more accidental/improvised and not composed in the sense of 'I have an idea, now let's make this wretched machine do what I want.' A subtle distinction maybe but one I hold dear... Another interesting area is collaborative writing, often born out of 'jamming' where ideas from several individuals come together to form something greater than the sum of its parts. To further muddy the waters, I believe that man and machine collaborations are not totally out of the question in some very specific circumstances.... OK, I'll stop boring you all now... 8-) Paul --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 16/06/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 10:14 am Subject: Green Desert -- Help Please Really-From: Mark Filipak Hi Gang. Didn't 'Green Desert' ever get a German release? I find it strange there is no record of one. Here's what I have -- oh, please note the last entry: a French CD pressed by '50:50' -- anybody have this or know of this company? I don't think it's bogus as I've seen several things pressed by 50:50. GREEN DESERT [??? 73/??? 84] (remix/adds by EF in 1984) - EF/CF 1 Green Desert [19:25] 3 Astral Voyager [7:03] 2 White Clouds [5:01] 4 Indian Summer [6:53] Original cover: Circular cropped photo of desert scene at ground level with black surround; rock outcropping in right foreground, large rock in distance left; 'TANGERINE DREAM' and 'Green Desert' (both in green) overlay left side of picture. Two mesas cover: Circular cropped photo of desert scene, but overhead view instead of ground level; with black surround; one mesa in left foreground, second mesa in distance right; 'TANGERINE DREAM' above picture, 'Green Desert' below picture. Peach cover: A peach colored square on white background beside 'Tangerine Dream' in grey and 'Green Desert' in black. Grid cover: Perspective grid with pyramids and starburst. Balloon cover: The inside of a hot air balloon, looking up; colorful. LP GREEN DESERT (original cover) Tracks: Side 1: 1 / Side 2: 2-4 [1986] Rel. (US) EMC 8072 [1986] Rel. (US) 88561-8072-1 LP GREEN DESERT (peach cover) Tracks: Side 1: 1 / Side 2: 2-4 [1989] Jive (GB) HOP 226 MC GREEN DESERT (two mesas cover) Tracks: Side 1: 1 / Side 2: 2-4 [1986] Rel. (??) 88561-8072-4 MC GREEN DESERT (peach cover) Tracks: Side 1: 1 / Side 2: 2-4 [1989] Jive (GB) HOP C226 CD GREEN DESERT (original cover) [AAD] Tracks: 1-4 [1986] Rel. (US) 88561-8072-2 [1986] Rel. (US) EMCD 8072 [1986] Rel. (GB) TRCD 8072 (cover lettering is in red) CD GREEN DESERT (grid cover in green) [AAD] Tracks: 1-4 [1986] Jive (GB) C TANG 1 CD GREEN DESERT (balloon cover) [ADD] Tracks: 1-4 [1996] Ess. (GB) ESM 349 [1996] Sequel (US) 1036-2 [1996] Dureco (NL) ESM 349 CD GREEN DESERT (unknown cover) [A?D] Tracks: 1-4 [19??] 50:50 (FR) ???... As ever, thanks for your help. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Schmoelling Availability Really-From: Andy Bloyce <100703.542@C...> >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' >I have his firs three solo releases (Wuivend Riet, Zoo of >Tranquility and White Out) and they are all very good. You >might have a problem finding them now, though. I think >they're all OOP, at least until TDI's much publicised >rerelease of ZoT, anyway. I believe CUE may have 'Wuivend Reit' in stock, for 11.99 UK Pounds plus postage. I passed up a copy of ZoT in London for 9 Quid about three months ago, I thought I'd wait for the re-issue. Didn't know I was waiting for it to be issued on LASERcube or Holographic Ice-cube format. Never again! >NP : Skyrider - Paul Nagle You must be feeling good about now then? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5122 Re: Schmoelling Availability Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5129 Re: Schmoelling Availability Andy Bloyce Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5130 Re: Schmoelling Availability Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5147 Re: Schmoelling Availability Antonio Nunes Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 11:14 am Subject: Re: New TD album? Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Paul Nagle > ... > I guess it's down to the meaning of 'compose'. For me, if I did > anything on a flight with a laptop, it might be to 'record' music that > I had already composed, try out variations on stuff that was running > through my head etc. etc. > > It's not a point worth labouring as everyone works differenly but I > reckon music made by doodling away with synthesizers until you 'hit on > something' is more accidental/improvised and not composed in the sense > of 'I have an idea, now let's make this wretched machine do what I > want.' A subtle distinction maybe but one I hold dear... > > Another interesting area is collaborative writing, often born out of > 'jamming' where ideas from several individuals come together to form > something greater than the sum of its parts. ... Here's the very interesting bit, Paul. > ... To further muddy the > waters, I believe that man and machine collaborations are not totally > out of the question in some very specific circumstances.... > > OK, I'll stop boring you all now... I for one am never bored by what you write, Paul. One of these days I'm actually going to get one of your albums. Sounds like you might be interested in AI for musical accompaniment 'cloning' purposes, if you get my drift. Cheers -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:38 pm Subject: Re: Schmoelling Availability Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Andy Bloyce <100703.542@C...> > [Schmoelling stuff snipped] > > >NP : Skyrider - Paul Nagle > > You must be feeling good about now then? Huh? Je ne comprends pas! --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: Michal Balcerzak Hi Dreamers There will be a radio broadcast of the Warsaw concert (Sala Kongresowa 97-06-13). Listen to the Program Trzeci (Poland) on thursday 97-06-19 at 22:10 CET. You can also tune in to RealAudio at http://www.radio.com.pl/trojka. There was a brodcast of the first part on Sunday 97-06-15 at 19:30 CET and it sounded much better than live. Regards Balcer Michal Balcerzak Gruner + Jahr Polska Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5135 Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Morgan Marks Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5139 Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Vic Rek Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5140 Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Plumer, Scott Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5142 Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Morgan Marks Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5154 Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Michal Balcerzak Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5182 Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Mark Filipak Thu 6/19/1997 3 KB 5230 Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Michal Balcerzak Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 9:40 am Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: John Christian >Really-From: Mark Filipak > Pending >futher information, I choose to believe that 'Livemiles' is indeed a >fraud and should rightly be named 'Studiomiles' as some folk have been >insisting. I thought that it was pretty well known around these here parts that Paul had admitted the Studiomiles things. Even if he hadn't, the evidence speaks for itself. >This brings up a discography mystery. Edgar states on the TD web page >that the Berlin show was Chris' last collaboration as part of TD. If >this is true, and if the second half of 'Livemiles' (Berlin) is a >fabrication -- And the first half too. Both parts have similarities to the Berlin 87 material, but nothing is identical. >it sure sounds like it to me! -- then there can be only >three possible conclusions: > >1) Edgar, Chris, and Paul, together, recorded the last three tracks of > 'Livemiles' _prior_ to the concert -- possibly during rehearsals, or > >2) The last 3 tracks of 'Livemiles' were done _after_ the Berlin show > _without_ Chris, or > >3) Edgar's recollection is wrong and 'Livemiles' was done _after_ the > Berlin show and _with_ Chris -- making this the last time they > collaborated. > >Does anybody know the truth? I believe that Chris' departure after the concert was rather more abrupt than the official line states. I think option 3 is out, but #1 or #2 is anyones guess. They're unlikely to be rehearsal tapes thought, they are way too different. Probably some contractual reason for having the perfomance & 'live' album different (as with Pergamon). >This also brings up an interesting relationship: > >Peter left the band after the mysterious 2nd North American concert in >July of 1977 -- does anyone know where and when that show happened? You mean 2nd tour, rather than concert? Voices in the Dunes says dates between April 26 and July 9 were cancelled, but then lists 4 'added' dates: San Diego (Jul9), Tuscon (Jul10), LA (Jul12), Toronto (Aug4). >Cheers -- Mark (please no 'I told you so's,' okay? Edgar's still tops >with me and I don't care about a little fraud now and then amongst >friends -- no harm, no foul. Hands up who believes that anything other than the first half of Encore is really a live album? >We've got the two boots _plus_ >'Livemiles.' Now all we need is a boot of the actual Albuquerque show >to make it all complete.) Only if you believe that every show in the 86 tour was more of less identical, except for Alberquerque for which they decided to play a totally different set based on music they hadn't composed yet? JC -- John Christian - mail:john@p... AirSculpture Try out WebMaze at ADVERT: **AIRSCULPTURE+P.NAGLE LIVE AT JODRELL BANK UK * 28 JUN 97 * EMAIL FOR DETAILS** From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 12:01 pm Subject: Re: DVD Issues (no TD content) Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Morgan Marks > ... > In other words, someone is standing perfectly still and moves their > arm around. Well, for frame #1, MPEG grabs the whole image. For frame > 2-15, it only tracks the movement of his arm. On frame 16, it grabs > a full frame again. > > This explains why when someone is sitting *mostly* still, but they > are moving a *little* bit, they appear to totally freeze in place and > then 'pop' or 'jump' twice a second... MPEG makes me sick because of > this frame interpolation. ... Thanks for this explanation, Morgan. You're a techoweeny's technoweeny. And I mean that with respect and admiration. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 11:51 am Subject: Remember Improvisin' Eddie? Really-From: Mark Filipak Some random thoughts that suddenly and blindingly became ordered: Earlier today, this bit from Paul Nagle ... On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:29:22 GMT, Paul Nagle wrote: > > It's not a point worth labouring as everyone works differenly but I > reckon music made by doodling away with synthesizers until you 'hit > on something' is more accidental/improvised and not composed in the > sense of 'I have an idea, now let's make this wretched machine do > what I want.' A subtle distinction maybe but one I hold dear... So Paul. You don't respect people who 'bang out a tune', eh? Easy Paul, wait till you get to the end and remember 'accidental/improvised.' Then I remembered what Paul wrote yesterday ... On Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:25:29 GMT, Paul Nagle wrote: > > Just a thought: people should not write music in the studio. End of > thought. And Hilmar's recent response ... On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 04:23:47 -0400, Hilmar Kraft wrote: > > Well...they don't! They compose music on flights using laptops! So I > think it is very possible that we see a new album this year. ... To which he added ... > Before anyone asks about the strange title: This actually is what > Edgar said about the earlier years of the band: All they ever did > on stage was improvising, thus: people actually paid money to see > a band rehearsing...hence the title. And what was the title? > 'Tangerine Dream - the best-payed rehearsal band of all times' Then I went to the kitchen to make myself a raspberry and cream cheese sandwich to take to bed and >...,<<.>...<.<.>,.,,. CRACK ,,.<>.>.>,...>.,.,,., Something clicked into place and I said to myself, 'I wonder when the last time was that Edgar just jammed, improvised, stopped composing and just 'banged out a tune?'' Perhaps Edgar is doing too much composing and not enough 'accidental/ improvised' stuff. I'm not talking 'Composin' Eddie' here -- no tangents again, please. I'm talking Improvisin' Eddie. Paul. Are you sure you wouldn't like to eat some of your words? Just some thoughts -- Mark (probably the last one to catch on) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5199 Re: Remember Improvisin' Eddie? Paul Nagle Thu 6/19/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 8:03 pm Subject: Re: Compositional Techniques (was New TD album?) Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Paul Nagle > > I guess it's down to the meaning of 'compose'. For me, if I did > anything on a flight with a laptop, it might be to 'record' music that > I had already composed, try out variations on stuff that was running > through my head etc. etc. > > It's not a point worth labouring as everyone works differenly but I > reckon music made by doodling away with synthesizers until you 'hit on > something' is more accidental/improvised and not composed in the sense > of 'I have an idea, now let's make this wretched machine do what I > want.' A subtle distinction maybe but one I hold dear... If I understand you correctly, what we're talking about here is analogous to both software engineers/hackers and our old friend the author. Proper software engineering involves a particular process which includes analysis, design, coding and testing. We decide what we want to produce, how we will produce it, then produce it and finally make sure that it's been produced correctly. I see this being similar to what I see as 'composing' - sitting down with a blank sheet of paper (and maybe a keyboard or something) and actually writing a tune (what we want to produce), arranging it (how we will produce it), playing/recording it (produce it) and listen to it and 'fine-tune' it (make sure it's been produced correctly). A 'hacker' on the other hand (and I'm talking here in software production terms, and not breaking into secure data/sites, etc) sits infront of his compiler, thinks he knows what he has to produce, produces something and then doesn't bother with it. I see this being similar to the 'improvisation' style - sitting down at an instrument (in front of his compiler), perhaps having a vague concept of what is to be played (thinks he knows what he has to produce), plays somethng on the spur of the moment (produces something) and then moves on to the next piece/time (doesn't bother with it). I guess authors also fall into similar categories - there are those who work by planning out the story from start to finish, identifying major scenes and plots, followed by research into characters and locations and jobs. And there are others who sit themselves down in front of the typewriter/word-processor and start writing. Of the three (musicians, authors and software engineers), I would say that only in software engineering is there an appreciable difference between the two methods of production. > Another interesting area is collaborative writing, often born out of > 'jamming' where ideas from several individuals come together to form > something greater than the sum of its parts. To further muddy the > waters, I believe that man and machine collaborations are not totally > out of the question in some very specific circumstances.... Mark mentioned AI, but I wondered if you just meant using some old-fashioned analogue equipment, where the machine is almost another improviser, given its aptitude to change and difficulty to control. Listening to the official and boot stuff from the 70s, there are plenty of times when things worked out fantastically and some when they did not. Edgar has indicated (Tangents booklet) that on some occassions this has been purely by chance (I'm thinking primarily about Mysterious Semblance ...). Is this the type of collaboration you meant, Paul? > OK, I'll stop boring you all now... You didn't bore me. How many will be able to say the same after reading my drivel? 8-) --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 9:59 pm Subject: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Really-From: Peter Ravn Hello boys and girls Now again a sad story. The TD homepage now tells us: 'Now we have the latest news for the Greek concerts - TD will NOT move down there, they have cancelled both shows because the technical requirements - necessary to perform a TD concert have not been provided by the local promoter. The Band itself isn't very happy about this decision, but like the Kassel cancellation, TD is not willing to perform under circumstances which could cut off important parts of their artistic needs. So sorry folks down there - it wasn't our fault.' So when will the Tournado CD then be released? TD web says: 'Sales start will be during the two gigs in Athens and Thessaloniki on the 23/24th of June. Shortly after that date the CD will hit the shops near you.' Lets hope 'shortly' isn't in the autumn :-) Best regards, Peter Ravn Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5131 Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Craig R. J. Cordrey Wed 6/18/1997 3 KB 5141 Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Plumer, Scott Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5183 Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Mark Filipak Thu 6/19/1997 4 KB 5228 Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! TWeibre361@a... Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Re: Schmoelling Availability Really-From: Andy Bloyce <100703.542@C...> >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' >> Really-From: Andy Bloyce <100703.542@C...> > [Schmoelling stuff snipped] >> >NP : Skyrider - Paul Nagle >> >> You must be feeling good about now then? >Huh? Je ne comprends pas! >--------------------------------------------- >Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer >GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems >Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) >mailto : cordrey@m... >--------------------------------------------- As in 'swept away by the excellent music,' nothing untoward meant - sorry for the confusion. 'Skyrider' was my fave (only recently overtaken by 'Earthshaper') - especially 'On Mercury's Wings.' From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 8:55 pm Subject: Re: Schmoelling Availability Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Andy Bloyce <100703.542@C...> > > As in 'swept away by the excellent music,' nothing untoward meant - sorry for > the confusion. > 'Skyrider' was my fave (only recently overtaken by 'Earthshaper') - especially > 'On Mercury's Wings.' Certainly 'Earthshaper' is a very good album. I have onl heard Skyrider the once, so it is too early to form a real opinion yet. However, in a recent mail, Paul indicated that he felt Skyrider was the wekest of the four Elements (hope I'm not breaching some form of netiquette here, Paul). If anything, that must speak volumes for Firedancer and .... uhm .... the water one. Back to Schmoelling - What label is the CUE records version that is being cold for stlg12? Is it Erdenklang? (Or is this a really silly questions? Do CUE just sell CUE stuff?) --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 9:05 pm Subject: Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Peter Ravn > > 'Now we have the latest news for the Greek concerts - TD will NOT move > down there, they have cancelled both shows because the technical > requirements - necessary to perform a TD concert have not been provided > by the local promoter. The Band itself isn't very happy about this > decision, but like the Kassel cancellation, TD is not willing to perform > under circumstances which could cut off important parts of their > artistic needs. So sorry folks down there - it wasn't our fault.' TD don't half like blaming other people for problems, eh? That's three concerts cancelled, all apparently due to the local promoter being at fault, but this is only discovered a few days before the concert. Am I the only person who finds this a little strange? Ed's been touring for almost 30 years now. With all that experience, you'd think he would know that if you want something specific, you have to lean on people to make sure you get it. Isn't it TD's management's responsibility to ensure that local promoters provide the right stuff? So, who isn't doing ther job? Is it really the promoters, or just the management not managing sufficiently? (I'm sure Mark's gonna have some answers to this one!) --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 2:41 pm Subject: Re: Tournado was:Greece Really-From: Morgan Marks At 02:24 PM 6/18/97 +0200, you wrote: >Really-From: Peter Ravn > > >So when will the Tournado CD then be released? >TD web says: > 'Sales start will be during the two gigs in Athens and Thessaloniki on > the 23/24th >of June. Shortly after that date the CD will hit the shops near you.' > >Lets hope 'shortly' isn't in the autumn :-) Find a friend on the list who's going to those concerts and shell 'em out some dough! Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 1:42 pm Subject: Re: DVD Issues (no TD content) Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-06-17 04:48:59 EDT, you write: << So you're making a major distinction between DVDs and Laserdiscs, right? I've never seen a scratched laserdisc. They've got almost 200 laserdiscs for rent down the street at Blockbuster and even more at AV Plus (some really esoteric stuff!) and I enjoy them at my home often. Morgan >> You musi live in Siberia. Here in Chicago I would state the complete inverse; I have never rented a LD that was in mint condition. The rental outfits don't even bother to clean the removable stuff off, like fingerprints, but that is the least of the problems. One I rented had twin circular scars going all the way round the disk, it was impossible to play. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 1:42 pm Subject: Re: Floyd/Oz Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-06-17 04:36:45 EDT, you write: << (Aside to Phil N.--I haven't forgotten you, one of my VCR's died and I just replaced it) >> Thanks, Michael, . . . appreciate the update. Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 2:37 pm Subject: Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: Morgan Marks At 11:44 AM 6/18/97 +0100, you wrote: >Really-From: Michal Balcerzak > >Hi Dreamers > >There will be a radio broadcast of the Warsaw concert (Sala Kongresowa >97-06-13). >Listen to the Program Trzeci (Poland) on thursday 97-06-19 at 22:10 CET. >You can also tune in to RealAudio at http://www.radio.com.pl/trojka. >There was a brodcast of the first part on Sunday 97-06-15 at 19:30 CET >and it sounded much better than live. There must be some serious lag, because that stuff is over with... :( Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 10:00 pm Subject: Re: Warsaw concert broadcast / Tournado Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' Heavy night last night Morgan? > Really-From: Morgan Marks > > At 11:44 AM 6/18/97 +0100, you wrote: > >Really-From: Michal Balcerzak > > > >Hi Dreamers > > > >There will be a radio broadcast of the Warsaw concert (Sala Kongresowa > >97-06-13). > >Listen to the Program Trzeci (Poland) on thursday 97-06-19 at 22:10 CET. > >You can also tune in to RealAudio at http://www.radio.com.pl/trojka. > >There was a brodcast of the first part on Sunday 97-06-15 at 19:30 CET > >and it sounded much better than live. > > There must be some serious lag, because that stuff is over with... :( No, the concert has taken place, but the radio program is on tomorrow night at 22:10 CET. And then you said : >>Really-From: Peter Ravn >> >>So when will the Tournado CD then be released? >>TD web says: >> 'Sales start will be during the two gigs in Athens and >> Thessaloniki on the 23/24th >>of June. Shortly after that date the CD will hit the shops >>near you.' >> >>Lets hope 'shortly' isn't in the autumn :-) >Find a friend on the list who's going to those concerts and >shell 'em out some dough! The original point was that the Greek concerts have been cancelled and so the planned launch of the CD at these concerts cannot take place. Certainly no sign of Tournado hitting Voiceprint yet, anyway. They might be a good guide as to when it'll be in the shops. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 2:06 pm Subject: RE: Tangerine Dream Videos Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >Are there any TD videos of there early years? Any bootlegs or legal releases? >By early years I mean anywhere from 1969 to early 80's. Oh yeah, and where >can I get them? Thanks in advance. Tom Someone sent me a message a couple months ago saying he had a vid from Coventry '75, but he wasn't interested in anything I had to trade. Perhaps if someone else has something, the vid can get into general circulation. His e-mail is: FATESWARNING@H... Good luck. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 2:26 pm Subject: RE: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >This brings up a discography mystery. Edgar states on the TD web page >that the Berlin show was Chris' last collaboration as part of TD. If >Does anybody know the truth? My guess is that the Berlin '87 show was indeed their last collaboration. Part 2 of LiveMiles was indeed the Berlin show, edited and perhaps with parts added to make a more coherent album side. Not a fraud or fabrication in my book, just making it more listenable. I'd have to listen to it again, but I seem to think that LiveMiles all appeared in the Berlin show. The tape I have is about 140 min., and also has an interview with Ed after the broadcast. Unfortunately, it's in German and I can understand only a little. >Peter left the band after the mysterious 2nd North American concert in >July of 1977 -- does anyone know where and when that show happened? It was supposed to have happened in Colorado. Some TD sources say Denver, others say U. of Colo. in Boulder, but _my_ sources have found no listing for a TD concert in the Denver area in '77, at least as advertised in the Denver Post & Rocky Mtn. News. >saw of Paul as a member of TD. Does anybody know which is correct? I >guess the salient question here is: When was 'L'affaire Wallraff' >finished? Or stated the other way around: What was Paul's last project >with TD? LaW, the film, was released in 1990, and Paul left in December 1990, his last live show being Nov. 6 in Bristol. The summer of 1990 was occupied with the recording of Melrose, which was released in October 1990. Paul also was doing solo work during this time, with the track 'Garten der Zeitame' being released on a sampler in 1990. Based on that, I'd say that Melrose was his last recorded work with TD. All of this information, BTW, will be available in my upcoming book. (shameless plug). Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 2:38 pm Subject: Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: Vic Rek At 08:37 AM 6/18/97 -0600, you wrote: >Really-From: Morgan Marks >At 11:44 AM 6/18/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Really-From: Michal Balcerzak >>There will be a radio broadcast of the Warsaw concert (Sala Kongresowa >>97-06-13). >>Listen to the Program Trzeci (Poland) on thursday 97-06-19 at 22:10 CET. >>You can also tune in to RealAudio at http://www.radio.com.pl/trojka. >>There was a brodcast of the first part on Sunday 97-06-15 at 19:30 CET >>and it sounded much better than live. > >There must be some serious lag, because that stuff is over with... :( I don't see anything 'lagging' in this post. I would suggest that you read the posts more closely. I think Michal is trying (and said) to tell us to tune in on the 19th, which is tomorrow. BTW, I don't think anybody will be able to pick up the Tournado CD at the cancelled concerts in Greece. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 2:54 pm Subject: RE: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >There will be a radio broadcast of the Warsaw concert (Sala Kongresowa >97-06-13). Machal, please please please tape this! Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 2:57 pm Subject: Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >That's three concerts cancelled, all apparently due to the >local promoter being at fault, but this is only discovered >a few days before the concert. Am I the only person who >finds this a little strange? Three? What about all the shows in France they announced way back and then pulled off the tour schedule without mention? Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 5:06 pm Subject: Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: Morgan Marks At 10:38 AM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Really-From: Vic Rek > >>>There will be a radio broadcast of the Warsaw concert (Sala Kongresowa >>>97-06-13). >>>Listen to the Program Trzeci (Poland) on thursday 97-06-19 at 22:10 CET. >>>You can also tune in to RealAudio at http://www.radio.com.pl/trojka. CET? What's that in GMT? Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 3:08 pm Subject: RE: A Time For Heroes Really-From: Jim Moore >Really-From: Mark Filipak >A Time For Heroes -- what I know about it: >Questions: >1- Does TD or Meatloaf play during the vocal? >2- Does just Brian May sing during the vocal or does Meatloaf sing too > (I'm ignorant -- is Meatloaf a singer too?) >3- Did Meatloaf write this or did TD write it? Brian May plays guitar and Meatload sings on the vocal version without TD. TD plays on the instrumental versions without May or Meatloaf. And I believe Jon Lyons wrote both the music and the lyrics. Hope I've helped. - jim 'This is the preachiest book I've ever read! Everyone's a sinner... Except for this one guy...' Homer Simpson on the Bible James F. Moore -- jimbo@v... -- Atlanta, Georgia, USA Jimbo's Home Page: http://www2.vivid.net/~jimbo From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 5:04 pm Subject: RE: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: Morgan Marks At 10:26 AM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > >>This brings up a discography mystery. Edgar states on the TD web page >>that the Berlin show was Chris' last collaboration as part of TD. If > >>Does anybody know the truth? >My guess is that the Berlin '87 show was indeed their last >collaboration. Part 2 of LiveMiles was indeed the Berlin show, edited >and perhaps with parts added to make a more coherent album side. Perhaps? I haven't heard any boots, yet the transition from track 6 to track 7 SCREAMS 'Studio addition!' Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: WANTED: The Alan Michael Vincent Book Really-From: Steven Feldman This is an ad. If anyone has a copy of the TD book written by Alan Michael Vincent for sale, please contact me off-list. Thank you. -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 11:19 am Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: Michael Fox Thanks, Craig. I knew they weren't SBM, but with all the talk I wasn't certain where they fell. You all are an incredible source of info. Thanks and Cheers, Mike At 09:04 AM 6/17/97 GB-EIRE, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > >> Really-From: Michael Fox >> >> OK guys---hep me out here. The Tangram I have has the purple color, Virgin >> is the label and the # is CDV 2147. > >This would be the 'second' Tangram release, as per Mathew's >information. Not the re-mastered SBM version. > >> Thief has a pic of a guy with mirror >> glasses and a light green border is CDV 2198 > >Again, this is the original/basic release of Thief, not the >remastered SBM version. > >>, and Risky Bus is CDV 2302. > >I'd guess, given the catalogue number, that this is also >the original non-SBM version. > >> Green Desert has a circular pic of sand and some rocks and label is >> Relativity Theory (under license from Zomba music--on the _disc_ it has >> Published by Zomba Music and under that 1973 Somba Music, then 1986 >> Relativity. Anyone familiar with these? > >Again, a non-SBM version. I remember seeing this as an >import over here, but never bought it and ended up with the >Jive release with the green cover. The SBM version has a >close up of the inside of a hot-air ballon, if I remember >correctly. > >> Mike > >NP : Redshift > >--------------------------------------------- >Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer >GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems >Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) > >mailto : cordrey@m... >--------------------------------------------- > > > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 12:40 am Subject: Re: Schmoelling Availability Really-From: Antonio Nunes Craig R. J. Cordrey wrote: > Back to Schmoelling - > What label is the CUE records version that is being cold > for stlg12? Is it Erdenklang? I've ordered Wuivend Riet from CUE last month (couldn't wait for the D:week), and so I can confirm that it is the Erdenklang version. Antonio Nunes NP: the aforementioned :-) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 5:47 pm Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: TangerineC@a... In a message dated 97-06-18 08:22:44 EDT, you write: >Cheers and I hope I've helped. -- Mark (Questions like these is why I'm >doing a definitive discography.) > And it's questions like this,that made me subscribe to this list. Keep it up guys. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 5:53 pm Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: TangerineC@a... In a message dated 97-06-18 10:27:00 EDT, you write: > I have TAND 11 and the sound improvement of the SBM >is dramatic. I assume that the new US release (Caroline, 1704 1805 2) >is also SBM and says so. I guess any release other than these two are >suspect. Well, I'm the one who has the new Tangram and it only says Definitive Edition on the Cd, but nowhere else. Not even on the cover. The catalog number is caroline 1704 1805 2. Someone on this list said that the wrapping had a sticker that said Sbm remastering and all that. But mine did'nt. Maybe they just did'nt put it on some of them. Oh well, I'll have to hunt down Tand 11 now. I'll have 3 versions of this album now. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 5:56 pm Subject: Re: Tangram -- Help Please Really-From: TangerineC@a... In a message dated 97-06-18 08:02:10 EDT, you write: >It's probably 'Purple border cover' but I'd like to confirm it. As an >original release, if it was coincident with the UK release, it _may_ >have 'Red border cover No it's purple with a grey border. I have it. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 1:03 pm Subject: Risky b Really-From: Michael Fox Mark Filipak wrote: > ... and Risky Bus is CDV 2302. ... > >There were two releases. The original was in a blue frame (almost >indistingushable) and the second was in a black frame (very >pronounced). Both were released as CDs in 1985 -- the LP release was >1984. Mine has the blue frame and I have the US and UK lp's. And has been stated here LoaRT is different mixes. Thanks also for the info on what I have. Cheers, Mike Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5184 Re: Risky b Mark Filipak Thu 6/19/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 12:59 pm Subject: Re: Tangram -- Help Please Really-From: Michael Fox Hi Mark, My copy of Tangram is Virgin CDV 2147 from 1980 (on disc).Jacket states published 1983/1985--recorded 1980. Cover is grey border w/ purple bkgnd and white 'swish' with red mark under it. Now, the id says 5-012981-214722, HOWEVER, on the outside of the case is a stick on tag with 610 380-217. Hope this is of some help. Mike At 12:11 AM 6/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >Really-From: Mark Filipak > > >May I take this opportunity to get some of my questions answered re: >'Tangram?' > >My discography on this album is frighteningly large. I won't be >obnoxious and post the whole thing, just what remains a mystery to me: > >Compact Disc releases I have questions about... > > CD TANGRAM (unknown cover) [AAD] Tracks: 1,2 > [1984] Virgin (DE) 610 372-225 > >If you have this Please tell me what cover it has. > > Original cover: white streaks/red bkgnd; no border; tangram logo in > upper left. > Streaks/red cover: streaks/red bkgnd; grey border; no logo. > Streaks/purple cover: streaks/purple bkgnd; grey border; no logo. > >It's probably 'Purple border cover' but I'd like to confirm it. As an >original release, if it was coincident with the UK release, it _may_ >have 'Red border cover.' > > >Next... > > CD TANGRAM (unknown cover) [A?D] Tracks: 1,2 > [19??] Virgin (DE) 610 380 [19??] Blue Plate (GB) > [1995] ???... (DE) ???... BP001805 > >The first one: > > [19??] Virgin (DE) 610 380 > >plus the second one: > > [1995] ???... (DE) ???... > >should probably be simply combined like this: > > [1995] Virgin (DE) 610 380 > >but I can't definatively say that until someone (in Germany?) confirms >it -- please look in your collection. Is it AAD or ADD? -- Probably ADD >if Virgin, 610 380 is a 1995 release. And which cover does it have? > >The third one: > > [19??] Blue Plate (GB) BP001805 > >needs a complete release date, whether it's AAD or ADD, and what cover >it has. Please? (Note that Blue Plate is a division of Virgin.) > >Thanks for any help. > > >Cassette releases I have questions about... > > MC TANGRAM (unknown cover) Tracks: Side 1: 1 / Side 2: 2 > [1980] VI/JEM (US) VIC 2147 [1980] Virgin/Ariola (ES) > [1980] Virgin (AU) VC 2147 I-402169 > [1980] Virgin/Ariola (DE) [1980] Virgin/Dischi Recordi > 402 169-352 (IT) VIK 712154 > [1980] Virgin/Ariola (NL) [1980] Virgin (FR) > 202.169 402 169 AE 230 > [1980] Virgin (CA) VL 42205 [1980] Virgin/Polydor (FR) > [1980] Virgin/Festival (AU) 3222756 > C 37268 > >As you can see, this is complete except that I don't know what cover art >they have. To my knowledge there were only two covers for cassettes and >they were different from both the LPs and CDs: > > Red logo cover: red tangram logo/white bkgnd; no streaks. > Black logo cover: black tangram logo/white bkgnd; no streaks. > >Since not too many people are going to have the cassettes, especially >the Italian, French, Australian, or Spanish cassettes, these will >probably remain a mystery. But I suspect they all have the 'red logo >cover' as the only cassette release confirmed to have the 'black logo >cover' was in 1985 and all the above were released in 1980 -- the year >of original release. And that first cassette release: > > [1980] Virgin (GB) TCV 2147 > >is confirmed to have the 'red logo cover.' > >Thanks for any help. Cheers -- Mark > > > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 1:14 pm Subject: composition Really-From: Michael Fox Paul Nagle wrote: >Another interesting area is collaborative writing, often born out of >'jamming' where ideas from several individuals come together to form >something greater than the sum of its parts. To further muddy the >waters, I believe that man and machine collaborations are not totally >out of the question in some very specific circumstances.... Yes, Paul, I agree. I have often found myself 'jammin' with a couple old AI's sequenced, only to have a spark of melody come out, which leads to the composition of a piece bourne out of the jam (can you say Allman Bros.?). While noodling can lead to a definitive piece, as opposed to having a preconcieved idea and mapping it out, both can lead one to an end. I guess in this case the end can justify the means. Now let's move on to that period when one works up a tune only to hear a form of it somewhere and realize you subconsiously 'reproduced' the other piece. Gawd, I hate when that happens! Mike From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: Michal Balcerzak > 22:10 CET. >CET? What's that in GMT? > >Morgan > CET = GMT + 1 [hour] 22:10 CET = 21:10 GMT (or 9:10 PM) Balcer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:33 pm Subject: Coma virus Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) Hi! Today I bought the CD 'Hidden' from Coma virus and in atmosphere the music reminds me a bit of the early TD-years (before Phaedra). After all I've heard from Paul Haslinger it's hard to believe that he created this music (or are there any other people involved in Coma virus?). Is there a homepage of Coma virus anywhere? Rüdiger E-mail: ruediger.illg@h... Home of CONSCIENCE: http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2294 OUT NOW: con13 'Hardware' (C60) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5159 Re: Coma virus Ruediger Illg Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5170 Re: Coma virus Craig R. J. Cordrey Thu 6/19/1997 3 KB 5179 Re: Coma virus TWeibre361@a... Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB 5180 Re: Coma virus TWeibre361@a... Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA?!? Really-From: Steven Feldman >Risky b >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:03:54 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Michael Fox > >Mine has the blue frame and I have the US and UK lp's. [. . .] Is this a typo? (I thought the RISKY BUSINESS sountrack was never released on vinyl in the US!) -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5181 Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA?!? Mark Filipak Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:59 pm Subject: tournado Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> Has anyone spotted, bought, or even held Tournado in their hot little hands? Anyone have any news on finding this?? Or is this another Shepherd's Bush Concert 'Official Video' never-to-be? Do I have to go to Greece to get one? Lars Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5161 Re: tournado Morgan Marks Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5193 Re: tournado Dennis Nigbur Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB 7937 tournado Lars R. Jones Tue 10/21/1997 3 KB 9361 tournado KRAUSENECKS Tue 12/9/1997 3 KB 9364 Re: tournado DJS Tue 12/9/1997 4 KB 9368 Re: tournado DJS Tue 12/9/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 7:47 pm Subject: Re: Tournado/Maedchen auf.../Orb mix Really-From: 'Jens Peschke' > Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) >Today I was looking for these new TD releases but I did not find one of them >in the shops. Maybe Tournado was not released yet but the two MCD were (or >am I wrong?). Tornado isn´t released yet :( >Orb mix of 'Towards the evening star': Which tracks does this CD contain and >is it worth buying it? It contains the or. (TD) track and one socalled remix by the Orb - noone would recognize that 'Towards...' was used ... If you don´t like the Orb its not worth buying. >Das Maedchen auf der Treppe: Are there any differences between this CD and >the limited tour CD? ASAIK the only official sold MCD is the limited tour CD (the other is a promo). >I thought Hamburg is a big town and that it should be possible to get these >releases but maybe this town isn't big enough ;) No, it´s not a question of the size of the city. I found both in Hannover (500.000 habitants) (WOM) - sold out yet - and yesterday in Frankfurt (650.000) (WOM too). The WOM store EM section in Frankfurt is 6 m ! Jens Peschke, Ronnenberg (Hannover) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 8:35 pm Subject: Re: Coma virus Really-From: 'Greg Heil' Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) Hi! Today I bought the CD 'Hidden' from Coma virus and in atmosphere the music reminds me a bit of the early TD-years (before Phaedra). After all I've heard from Paul Haslinger it's hard to believe that he created this music (or are there any other people involved in Coma virus?). Is there a homepage of Coma virus anywhere? Rüdiger Actually, Paul did the synthesizer solo at the end of 'Song of the Whales Part 2' and that is quite atmospheric. He had this style in him, I suspect he went the route of 'ethno' as that was current trend of 'new agey' sounds. Just a thought though. Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 8:50 pm Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: 'Greg Heil' I have something to add here, and it's because I feel the first track on Livemiles is not a Berlin creation, but a studio creation. Why? Well, first of all, the sound (at least at the start) is definately Southwest/American Indian influenced. I'm sure most of you see that this is the idea behind the Albequrque concert. It would be quite odd to hear this style performed in Berlin. So could be a total rehersal? The castle release of Livemiles states that the concert was partially played before the show started, and then some played live. It explains that the copyrights to some music being performed could not show up on a live CD on another label. Hack and slash, they obviously did. I still believe the music composed on Livemiles first track is for Albequrque. In truth, I don't think it was Edgar's fault. I think the restrictions of the various componies publishing TD caused this to happen. I'm sure Edgar is quite happy to be able to release a Tournado CD without much restriction on the part of Mirramar or Castle.. or whoever else gets the music to us! Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 10:08 pm Subject: Re: tournado Really-From: Morgan Marks At 03:59 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> > > >Has anyone spotted, bought, or even held Tournado in their hot little >hands? Anyone have any news on finding this?? Or is this another >Shepherd's Bush Concert 'Official Video' never-to-be? Do I have to go to >Greece to get one? It doesn't even exist yet... Edgar said June 24th will be first availability, only on tour dates. Then it will be in US stores by August. Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 9:13 pm Subject: Bootleg discographies etc. Really-From: Klaus Beschorner Hi all, during a dull afternoon in Arizona I had time to visit some of the pages referenced from the tadream homepage and came up with a few thoughts: Bootleg discography =================== Armin, Peter, and whoever else is still referencing this jurassic version of my bootlegography on pmcohen's page - please spare me the embarrassment. Mail me privately and I'll send you an up-to- date version if you want. Otherwise, please cut the link. Bootlegged Dreams ================= Armin, the 'copyright' on the 'ftp' version explicitly allows the free electronic distribution. Why do I tell you this here ? The return address on your page dosn't work... Bootlegged Dreams Updates ========================= I haven't had the time to make another one recently, and I feel that I'm loosing track with all the CDR releases springing up. So, if you make one, or get a new one, and you're interested in having access to an uptodate dicography, let me know by email. Better yet, offer me a copy ;-) /klaus/ (MRC) Materials Research Corporation............a SONY company Klaus Beschorner......................EMail.:....klaus@i... Drosselweg 6..........................Tel.:.....+49-7033-45683 D-71120 Grafenau......................Mobile:.+49-171-733 8969 Germany...............................Fax.:.....+49-7033-45631 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5164 Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Morgan Marks Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5165 Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Vic Rek Wed 6/18/1997 2 KB 5167 Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Morgan Marks Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB 5176 Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Vic Rek Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB 5197 Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Morgan Marks Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB 5202 Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Marcel Engels Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 10:45 pm Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: Morgan Marks At 01:50 PM 6/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > > >I have something to add here, and it's because I feel the first track on >Livemiles is not a Berlin creation, but a studio creation. Why? Well, first >of all, the sound (at least at the start) is definately Southwest/American >Indian influenced. I'm sure most of you see that this is the idea behind >the Albequrque concert. First track of Livemiles? The first 4 tracks are Albequerque. The last 3 tracks are Berlin. > It would be quite odd to hear this style performed in Berlin. So could be >a total rehersal? The castle release of Livemiles states that the concert >was partially played before the show started, and then some played live. It >explains that the copyrights to some music being performed could not show >up on a live CD on another label. I haven't read that little snippet. 'Twould be nice if Edgar were contractually able to comment on the situation. > Hack and slash, they obviously did. At least it was TD doing the editing, not the publisher (Poland was done this way, right?) > I'm sure Edgar is quite happy to be able to release a Tournado CD without >much restriction on the part of Mirramar or Castle.. or whoever else gets >the music to us! Now if only Edgar had said 'to hell with you publishers' in 1979 and formed TDI as a publishing group, etc., EMusic would be a different thing. Here's a question that would start a bunch of threads... know how TD is releasing every nanosecond of music they have played since 1992? Do you think TD would have had this philosophy if they had been their own publisher a long time ago? (1979, for example...) Also, do you think TD would have pushed harder for Johannes and other past members to publish their own solo stuff through TDI? If Edgar is reading this (wouldn't surprise me), one can have a million regrets and 'if only we had...' but it doesn't change the fact that TD was successful regardless of contracts. The contract with Virgin started as a security blanket and turned into a straightjacket? Is that the general consensus or am I reading things wrong here? (I'm good at doing that!) Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 10:47 pm Subject: Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Really-From: Morgan Marks At 11:13 PM 6/18/97 +0200, you wrote: >Really-From: Klaus Beschorner > >Hi all, > >during a dull afternoon in Arizona I had time to visit some of the >pages referenced from the tadream homepage and came up with a few >thoughts: > >Bootleg discography >=================== >Armin, Peter, and whoever else is still referencing this jurassic >version of my bootlegography on pmcohen's page - please spare me >the embarrassment. Mail me privately and I'll send you an up-to- >date version if you want. Otherwise, please cut the link. Assuming it's as up-to-date as possible, mind if I add it to the forthcoming 'Sickeningly Detailed TD Discography' (SDTDD for short)? Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 10:49 pm Subject: Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Really-From: Vic Rek At 11:13 PM 6/18/97 +0200, you wrote: >Really-From: Klaus Beschorner >Bootlegged Dreams Updates >========================= >I haven't had the time to make another one recently, and I feel >that I'm loosing track with all the CDR releases springing up. >So, if you make one, or get a new one, and you're interested in >having access to an uptodate dicography, let me know by email. >Better yet, offer me a copy ;-) I think I can help in this department also. I hear that there are some good copies of the latest tour going around. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a quality CD-R release of one of the 1997 shows beating the Tournado CD to the stores... But I hope it doesn't get cancelled. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Jun 18, 1997 11:33 pm Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > Really-From: Morgan Marks > > > At 01:50 PM 6/18/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > > > > > >I have something to add here, and it's because I feel the first track on > >Livemiles is not a Berlin creation, but a studio creation. Why? Well, first > >of all, the sound (at least at the start) is definately Southwest/American > >Indian influenced. I'm sure most of you see that this is the idea behind > >the Albequrque concert. > > First track of Livemiles? The first 4 tracks are Albequerque. The last 3 > tracks are Berlin. My CD player only reads two tracks--Albequerque and Berlin. I wouldn't know where the track seaperations are. > > It would be quite odd to hear this style performed in Berlin. So could be > >a total rehersal? The castle release of Livemiles states that the concert > >was partially played before the show started, and then some played live. It > >explains that the copyrights to some music being performed could not show > >up on a live CD on another label. > > I haven't read that little snippet. 'Twould be nice if Edgar were > contractually able to comment on the situation. Quoted from Castle release: 'Frose: It's a very controversial record -- a lot of people have said it's not live. We did a rehearsal in the afternoon at Albuquerque during the sound check. Part of the album was recorded then and another part was recorded during the gig itself. We also used a bit of an encore and a little portion of the Albuquerque concert was performed later on in New York which we subsequently edited into the same performance.' ' The reason we performed a two and a half hour set including material which had previously been released on record which we could not release... (on Livemiles) ...becuase they were blocked by copyright with other record componies. So we had to cut out the new pieces and bring them together to form a new record.' It then talks about musical bridges between these parts and that is was performed as well. > > Hack and slash, they obviously did. > > At least it was TD doing the editing, not the publisher (Poland was done > this way, right?) Thank God! > > > I'm sure Edgar is quite happy to be able to release a Tournado CD without > >much restriction on the part of Mirramar or Castle.. or whoever else gets > >the music to us! > > Now if only Edgar had said 'to hell with you publishers' in 1979 and formed > TDI as a publishing group, etc., EMusic would be a different thing. Here's a > question that would start a bunch of threads... know how TD is releasing > every nanosecond of music they have played since 1992? Do you think TD would > have had this philosophy if they had been their own publisher a long time > ago? (1979, for example...) > > Also, do you think TD would have pushed harder for Johannes and other past > members to publish their own solo stuff through TDI? > > If Edgar is reading this (wouldn't surprise me), one can have a million > regrets and 'if only we had...' but it doesn't change the fact that TD was > successful regardless of contracts. The contract with Virgin started as a > security blanket and turned into a straightjacket? Is that the general > consensus or am I reading things wrong here? (I'm good at doing that!) > > Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:04 am Subject: Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Really-From: Morgan Marks At 06:49 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Really-From: Vic Rek > >I hear that there are some good copies of the latest tour going around. I >wouldn't be surprised if we saw a quality CD-R release of one of the 1997 >shows beating the Tournado CD to the stores... But I hope it doesn't get >cancelled. Well, to quote Edgar Froese from the offical TD webpage, 'after listening to several fantapes of the 1997 tour, we have decided to release our own recording of set two.' Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: VOICES IN THE DUNES: the Online Version...and CD-ROM?!? Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Re: Bootleg discographies etc. >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:47:15 -0600 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Morgan Marks > >Assuming it's as up-to-date as possible, mind if I add it to the >forthcoming 'Sickeningly Detailed TD Discography' (SDTDD for short)? You know, there are currently at least eight people on this list involved in creating/writing discographies and/or books and/or histories of Tangerine Dream. For those not keeping a record, there is: o Klaus Beschorner (contributor to TD bible VOICES IN THE DUNES) o Matt Hargreaves (co-writer of TD bible VOICES IN THE DUNES) o Scott Plumer (writing a TD book of his own) o Mark Filipak (currently creating an exhaustive TD discography) o Morgan Marks (compiling the 'Sickeningly Detailed TD Discography') o Lars Jones (currently creating an exhaustive TD tape list) o John Burek (maintaining an exhaustive TD tape list) o Steve Feldman (maintaining the format-oriented TD Pocket Discography) I am reminded of people's hopes for an update of or supplements to VOICES IN THE DUNES, or an online version thereof. At this rate, I don't think this is an impossible task. Furthermore, I don't see why a CD-ROM couldn't result from such an effort. Why a CD-ROM? Because it can hold more data than a floppy disc, because it can function as a searchable database, and because it can contain high-resolution images that would take hours to load in a web browser. I just graduated from library school last year, and I took a half-credit (2 credits instead of 4, to be more precise) course in CD-ROM production, so I know that it's really not that hard a thing to do. Anyone who can write bin scripts or java (neither of which I can do) could do it in their sleep and the software--although prickly--is not price-prohibitive. So, here's to the hope that rather than the redundancy that will ultimately result from the admirable efforts of the eight gentlemen mentioned above (well, seven, anyways; I'm on the list, am I not?), there might commence a collaborative effort, in short a veritable (and virtual, hee hee!) online VOICES IN THE DUNES. A big question: how practical would it be to use a scanner to put some of the hundreds of pages in VOICES IN THE DUNES onto the web? I have a hardback copy of the book that would survive being pressed onto a photographic plate (a paperback copy would inevitably split and crack) and I'm sure that there are others on this list who also have hardback copies. Am I just farting in the breeze, here, or is such a proposition a possibility? Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Dreams Word, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ________ ^ ^ 33 Brook St #3 ^ ^ ^ Emdreams, CNI News, Contact ^ ^ ^ __--- ---_ Brookline Mass ^ ^ ^ Forum, _PEER_ Perspectives, ^ ^ - _ \ 02146-6913 USA ^ ^ ^ the Nausicaa list, Tadream, ^ ^ | /_/ \ | (617) 232-3876 ^ ^ ^ & Hong Kong Film Connection ^ ^_- __/_// __ |/ BITNET: ar402004@b... ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ - (|/ '()` <()/ ^ INTERNET: sfeldman@w... ^ ^ ^ ^ \_ O .> | ^ HAYAO MIYAZAKI DISCUSSION GROUP: nausicaa@b... ^ /--_/ -__ -- / ^ <*> Address for subscribing: listserv@b... <*> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --- ^ ^ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5171 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: the Online Version...and Craig R. J. Cordrey Thu 6/19/1997 4 KB 5201 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: the Online Version...and Pete Isaacson Thu 6/19/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 3:08 am Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) Greetings all- >Really-From: Mark Filipak >Hi All. Well, taking what people who attended that concert have said >about the 8 Jun 1986, Albuquerque show (that 'Livemiles' bears no >resemblance to that show) and having now obtained and played both >'Antarktis' and '20th Century Serenades' (the boots from the 1 Aug 1987 >Berlin show) it is clear to me that either a lot of people are deluded >(including myself) or 'Livemiles' is indeed a total fraud. Pending >futher information, I choose to believe that 'Livemiles' is indeed a >fraud and should rightly be named 'Studiomiles' as some folk have been >insisting. > >This brings up a discography mystery. Edgar states on the TD web page >that the Berlin show was Chris' last collaboration as part of TD. If >this is true, and if the second half of 'Livemiles' (Berlin) is a >fabrication -- it sure sounds like it to me! -- then there can be only >three possible conclusions: > >1) Edgar, Chris, and Paul, together, recorded the last three tracks of > 'Livemiles' _prior_ to the concert -- possibly during rehearsals, or > >2) The last 3 tracks of 'Livemiles' were done _after_ the Berlin show > _without_ Chris, or > >3) Edgar's recollection is wrong and 'Livemiles' was done _after_ the > Berlin show and _with_ Chris -- making this the last time they > collaborated. > >Does anybody know the truth? I posted the following as part of a mini-FAQ back in March 96, and again this past January! ; ) ===TD LIVE FAQ=== Is it live, or is it Memorex? ALL TD concerts have had at least a little studio work done to them, ranging from simple master fades to complete resequencing; some are in fact entirely a studio creation! (...) _LIVEMILES_- More like _Studiomiles_! I know what the liner notes say. I know what the Official Homepage says. But I also know that what my own ears are telling me is quite a different thing! Having been present at the Alberquerque concert, and in possesion of a fantape of said show, I can unequivocately state with absolute accuracy that _not_one_single_bit_ of 'Livemiles: Alberquerque' was performed at that concert! It has _got_ to be a studio session! Either that or the soundcheck was _really_ something! If you have the _Sonambulistic Imagery_ boot, then you essentially know the entire tour program, including the Alberquerque show. The only real differences were in the guitar solos. Although for some dates, 'Dominion' replaced 'Bois de Boulogne' As for 'Livemiles: Berlin', it, too, is not what it seems. This was a special concert contracted by the City of Berlin for the 750th anniversary celebration, which holds the performance rights to this concert. The concert was performed on Aug. 1, '87, and eventually broadcast on Oct. 22 that same year, after some _slight_ studio work was done to it. In order to release it for _Livemiles_, however, the band had to completely reperform the material chosen for the CD, due to the contract with the city. The opening track, 'Sunnyvale', is pretty faithful to the concert version, with just some minor voiceing changes. Ditto the second track, 'Caspian Sea'. However, the last track, 'Dolphin Dance', is a totally different version of what was performed. The version as played in the concert was the same version as the '86 UK/US Tours. This entire concert can be found on the boots _Antarktis_/_20th Century Serenades_ in absolutely great quality. (...) As far as Chris' last collaboration with the band; the concert was it, not the CD. And yes, Paul Haslinger has stated that _Livemiles_ is indeed a total studio creation. goozer PS: TD did not do the music to _Highway to Hell_. The band Hidden Faces did. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 4:02 pm Subject: Re: Coma virus Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) > > > Hi! > > Today I bought the CD 'Hidden' from Coma virus and in atmosphere the music > reminds me a bit of the early TD-years (before Phaedra). After all I've > heard from Paul Haslinger it's hard to believe that he created this music > (or are there any other people involved in Coma virus?). I don't know how much influence Paul had with Lightwave, given he was mainly a guest who also composed with them, bu his work with that band is completely different to his own solo work. Very dark and forboding. Is Coma Virus the same? > Is there a homepage of Coma virus anywhere? I don't know about C.V., but Paul's homepage is http://haslinger.com --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 4:12 pm Subject: Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: the Online Version...and CD-ROM?!? Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > You know, there are currently at least eight people on this list > involved in creating/writing discographies and/or books and/or histories > of Tangerine Dream. For those not keeping a record, there is: > > o Klaus Beschorner (contributor to TD bible VOICES IN THE DUNES) > o Matt Hargreaves (co-writer of TD bible VOICES IN THE DUNES) > o Scott Plumer (writing a TD book of his own) > o Mark Filipak (currently creating an exhaustive TD discography) > o Morgan Marks (compiling the 'Sickeningly Detailed TD Discography') > o Lars Jones (currently creating an exhaustive TD tape list) > o John Burek (maintaining an exhaustive TD tape list) > o Steve Feldman (maintaining the format-oriented TD Pocket Discography) > There is also likely to be a number of people doing 'smaller' activities which may also be of interest. I, for instance, have been researching albums/guests/performers with a view to producing a Pete Frame style Rock Family Tree for TD-and-friends. [ Steve suggests CD-ROM VitD] Sounds like a good idea to me, Steve. The only small problem I see is the fact that it is just like a book, in that it cannot evolve within re-issues. At least an on-line version can always be expanded/corrected/updated as required. > A big question: how practical would it be to use a scanner to put > some of the hundreds of pages in VOICES IN THE DUNES onto the web? I > have a hardback copy of the book that would survive being pressed onto > a photographic plate (a paperback copy would inevitably split and crack) > and I'm sure that there are others on this list who also have hardback > copies. This would be great. Then us poor sods who don't have the book would have access to its fountain of knowledge on-line, and some people wouldn't have to keep telling us to look in the book when we don't have it 8-). > Am I just farting in the breeze, here, or is such a proposition a > possibility? I don't know if it is either practical or possible, but it certainly something I would support. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 8:56 am Subject: +New Music!! Really-From: ashok prema OK - Hands up all those who like TD's latest style of music - but would like the drums toned down!!!! Well - this is the impression I got from a new album by a new name on the EM scene. Tha album is called 'Bronx Age' and the musician is a Paul Lawler - close friend of Andy Pickfords ( who endorses Pauls music wholeheartedly!). When I first listened to to it - I thought - THIS is the way I'd like TD to develop - drums subtley in the background and not 'in yer face'.....VERY IMPRESSIVE!! The albums out on Centaur Discs (C&D Services own label) - and can be obtained from them. In fact, I think PL would be a great addition to TD as their ideas are on the same wavelength - except, for me, PL's ideas are better thought out and don't get stuck in a rut as Goblins Club. Meanwhile, I have been re-listening to ToB lately, and tracks 1, 2, ,Stratosfear,, plus Linda's track and the last track (with those animal noises which my daughter likes so much!) I find excellent - lovely moods created - though in places the guitar gets a bit too much and lacks subtlety - definitely the best outputfor me since Melrose!! nuff said!! Ash Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5173 Re: +New Music!! Greg Heil Thu 6/19/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 10:16 am Subject: Re: +New Music!! Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > Really-From: ashok prema > > > OK - Hands up all those who like TD's latest style of music - but would > like the drums toned down!!!! Call me positive, but after Jerome loses his drumming job, and the new drummer comes in, I think there will be a wobderful improvement. After all, Jemroe is Edgar's son, and that dosn't make him necessarily the greatest and most qualified drummer for TD. The drum styles don't chance much between songs--exception of Goblin's Club which is a good improvement in adding a variation of styles. Truthfully, TD was never known for their drum work until the mid 80's on up. Before, it was a basic repeatative drum sequence (EX: Logos, Hyperborea, and many other tracks) with some drum fx in songs where it fit. Now, almost all drum fx is gone, and a basic rock beat has been the mainstay since Jerome came on board. Songs lose their individuality when the same rock beat is added.. but even some areas that can be quite mellow but still have a steady drum beat going in the background--why? Why drum over everything? Even at that, the drums lack power for being electronic--except 220 Volt (I like the bass) Listening for treble.. listening for cymbols.. none? Where did they go--well at least in ToB. Okay okay.. I hear clack clack in there =) I'd say Goblin's Club is an improvement over ToB as far as percussion is concerned. Weather it be Jerome getting better, or more presets on a new drum machine--it sounds much better in variation and style! Also, I like the quiet (albeit short) parts without the drums. And yes, GC has cymbols--or water splashes--whatever the case may be :) Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 10:15 am Subject: composing... Really-From: John Wilson Surely we should respect both the (distinct) skills of composition and improvisation? To me, most of TD's music has always sounded to be more driven by the latter, but then crafted into a whole afterwards (I am thinking of stuff like Tangram here particularly, where the individual lines sound like people jamming but the whole is put together with exquisite care). There's a story about where Elgar's Enigma Variations came from... he was improvising at the piano when his wife asked what he was playing. 'Oh, nothing; but it could be something if you want...' John. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 11:37 am Subject: correction Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> >Subject: VOICES IN THE DUNES: the Online Version...and CD-ROM?!? >Really-From: Steven Feldman > You know, there are currently at least eight people on this list >involved in creating/writing discographies and/or books and/or histories >of Tangerine Dream. For those not keeping a record, there is: [...] > o Lars Jones (currently creating an exhaustive TD tape list) [...] -- Make that seven. While honored to be listed among the above dignitaries, I am not currently working on an exhaustive TD tape list; only seeking tapes for my collection and to fulfill my own personal quest for TD... I do not wish to duplicate the work that has already been done (and is being done) so admirably... lars Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21649 correction Joel Mullen Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 12:14 pm Subject: Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Really-From: Vic Rek At 07:04 PM 6/18/97 -0600, you wrote: >Really-From: Morgan Marks >At 06:49 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Really-From: Vic Rek >> >>I hear that there are some good copies of the latest tour going around. I >>wouldn't be surprised if we saw a quality CD-R release of one of the 1997 >>shows beating the Tournado CD to the stores... But I hope it doesn't get >>cancelled. > >Well, to quote Edgar Froese from the offical TD webpage, 'after listening to >several fantapes of the 1997 tour, we have decided to release our own >recording of set two.' I would say to look for SET ONE also on the foreseen DOUBLE CD-R release. This is the vintage set which I think would interest more fans anyway. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Really-From: Steven Feldman >Re: Bootleg discographies etc. >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 08:14:41 -0400 (EDT) >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Vic Rek > >>Well, to quote Edgar Froese from the offical TD webpage, 'after >>listening to several fantapes of the 1997 tour, we have decided to >>release our own recording of set two.' > >I would say to look for SET ONE also on the foreseen DOUBLE CD-R >release. This is the vintage set which I think would interest more >fans anyway. Odd comment. For me, the great appeal of live TD is that it has a tradition of featuring a preponderance of non-studio-album material. When push comes to shove, the boots I seek out most diligently are those containing such material. I was never one keen to hear what tend to be lame interpretations of something done with more care in the studio. I am not a fan of live concert performance, in general, I guess. To me, there are only a handful of musicians who play better live than in the studio (read: on the spot rather than allowed re-takes), and TD is not one of them. LIVEMILES isn't an exception, either: a slack studio effort disguised as being live is still a slack studio effort. That said, however, I admit that I tend to prefer the version of 'Mojave Plan' that is on RATIKON to that on its source album, WHITE EAGLE. Why might this be? Let's see. I suspect that this version is little more than a case of RUBYCON REVISITED in that Edgar played a a tape of the WHITE EAGLE track--or keyed in presets for it--and then had the band improvise or otherwise augment what was already there. Could I be wrong? Probably, but hey, I'm trying (rather unsuccessfully) to promote an argument in favor of non-redundant live TD. ;) In this context, I'd have to say that I prefer remixes to live TD, so I'd have to give my vote to TANGENTS and DREAM ROOTS before giving thumbs up to any post-1985 live TD (I believe that's when TD concerts became glorified Greatest Hits regurgitations.). -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5191 Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Plumer, Scott Thu 6/19/1997 2 KB 5198 Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Morgan Marks Thu 6/19/1997 4 KB 5233 Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? TangerineC@a... Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB 5239 Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? PNaunton@a... Sat 6/21/1997 4 KB 5243 Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Dennis Nigbur Sat 6/21/1997 3 KB 5292 Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Plumer, Scott Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:06 pm Subject: Steve's proposal for a CD-ROM Really-From: Craig Shipley With all of the effort being put forth by list members to create a comprehensive book/discography/database/whatever of TD, I think that Steves' idea about publishing a CD-ROM of a combined effort is an excellent one. The reasons that he put forth are all valid ones and it would probably ensure that, by having just one combined effort, that everyone's' effort to the task would be recognized (I mean, if some of these are published as a cash-only effort, whose would you choose? Plus, the inevitable arguments about which one is the better effort. This list gets its' knickers in a twist about enough stuff already!! :-) ). I can't offer any technical assistance with the making or burning of a CD-ROM, but I will offer my unbridled enthusiasm for the effort!! And I would buy a copy, too! NP: Camel / Harbour Of Tears Craig Shipley craigs@p... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:46 pm Subject: Re: Coma virus Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-06-19 05:02:50 EDT, you write: << > Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) > > > Hi! > > Today I bought the CD 'Hidden' from Coma virus and in atmosphere the music > reminds me a bit of the early TD-years (before Phaedra). After all I've > heard from Paul Haslinger it's hard to believe that he created this music > (or are there any other people involved in Coma virus?). >> havent heard this one yet...care to post a quick review? thanks, tom w np: wipeout xl compilation (astralwerks) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:51 pm Subject: Re: Coma virus Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-06-19 05:02:50 EDT, you write: << > Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) > > > Hi! > > Today I bought the CD 'Hidden' from Coma virus and in atmosphere the music > reminds me a bit of the early TD-years (before Phaedra). After all I've > heard from Paul Haslinger it's hard to believe that he created this music > (or are there any other people involved in Coma virus?). >> havent heard this one yet...care to post a quick review? thanks, tom w np: wipeout xl compilation (astralwerks) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 12:22 pm Subject: Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA?!? Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > >Risky b > >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:03:54 > >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) > >Really-From: Michael Fox > > > >Mine has the blue frame and I have the US and UK lp's. [. . .] > > Is this a typo? (I thought the RISKY BUSINESS sountrack was > never released on vinyl in the US!) Sorry Steve. [1984] Virgin/Geffen (US) V 2302 Cheers -- Mark (this discography project is finally beginning to pay off :-) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 12:49 pm Subject: Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Michal Balcerzak > > Hi Dreamers > > There will be a radio broadcast of the Warsaw concert (Sala Kongresowa > 97-06-13). > Listen to the Program Trzeci (Poland) on thursday 97-06-19 at 22:10 > CET. You can also tune in to RealAudio at > http://www.radio.com.pl/trojka. > There was a brodcast of the first part on Sunday 97-06-15 at 19:30 CET > and it sounded much better than live. > > Regards > Balcer Hey Michal. 110 minute metal tape, with Dolby-C, max meter +6 MOL. Flip the tape at least 5 minutes early, during a bridge, rather than trying to catch it at the end of side 1. Okay? Cheers and happy listening to all. -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 11:53 am Subject: Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > > Really-From: Peter Ravn > > > > 'Now we have the latest news for the Greek concerts - TD will NOT > > move down there, they have cancelled both shows because the > > technical requirements - necessary to perform a TD concert have > > not been provided by the local promoter. The Band itself isn't > > very happy about this decision, but like the Kassel cancellation, > > TD is not willing to perform under circumstances which could cut > > off important parts of their artistic needs. So sorry folks down > > there - it wasn't our fault.' > > TD don't half like blaming other people for problems, eh? > That's three concerts cancelled, all apparently due to the > local promoter being at fault, but this is only discovered > a few days before the concert. Am I the only person who > finds this a little strange? > > Ed's been touring for almost 30 years now. With all that > experience, you'd think he would know that if you want > something specific, you have to lean on people to make sure > you get it. Isn't it TD's management's responsibility to > ensure that local promoters provide the right stuff? > > So, who isn't doing ther job? Is it really the promoters, > or just the management not managing sufficiently? > > (I'm sure Mark's gonna have some answers to this one!) I wish I did. On first consideration, I'll have to go along with you -- it's curious. To me the pregnant question is: What is it that Edgar wants from the local promoters that he's not getting? Or perhaps the question should be: What do the local promoters want that TD is not willing to do? Perhaps the gates for the first half of the tour weren't big enough for the promoters and they want a monitary guarantee from the band -- maybe even a surity bond -- and Edgar's not willing to take the economic risk or pay the price for a bond (if that's it), so... no show. Cheerless -- Mark (Over to the man in the booth) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 12:34 pm Subject: Re: Risky b Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Michael Fox > > Mark Filipak wrote: > > ... and Risky Bus is CDV 2302. ... > > > >There were two releases. The original was in a blue frame (almost > >indistingushable) and the second was in a black frame (very > >pronounced). Both were released as CDs in 1985 -- the LP release was > >1984. > Mine has the blue frame and I have the US and UK lp's. And has been > stated here LoaRT is different mixes. Thanks also for the info on what > I have. So, you have the first pressing LP on which 'LOaRT' is only 2:18 instead of the usual 3:58, eh? Is this shorter version of 'LOaRT' a different mix, or just an excerpt of the longer version? BTW, a store near me wants $10 for this first pressing LP. Anyone want me to buy it for them? Cheers -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:12 pm Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > ... > Quoted from Castle release: 'Frose: It's a very controversial record > -- a lot of people have said it's not live. We did a rehearsal in the > afternoon at Albuquerque during the sound check. Part of the album > was recorded then and another part was recorded during the gig itself. > We also used a bit of an encore and a little portion of the > Albuquerque concert was performed later on in New York which we > subsequently edited into the same performance.' > ' The reason we performed a two and a half hour set including material > which had previously been released on record which we could not > release... (on Livemiles) ...becuase they were blocked by copyright > with other record componies. So we had to cut out the new pieces and > bring them together to form a new record.' > > It then talks about musical bridges between these parts and that is was > performed as well. Could some kind person enter in the entire text from the Castle release. I only have the original release and would like to add this material in place of what I have, which is obviously wrong. Thanks to all for your contributions to this thread. -- Mark PS: To clarify about Peter's departure. It was the second NA tour. The first tour was from 29 March (Milwaukee) to 25 April (Santa Monica). But I specifically asked about the second show _in July_. This was the second NA tour as the first NA tour ended in April. The first venue in July was on the 12th at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles. Does anyone know where the second (and last) show in July occurred. Of course, it is possible that the Greek Theater _was_ the second show and it's the _first_ show that's unknown. It's also possible that there were _two_ shows at the Greek Theater. All I know is supposedly, there were two shows played in that second tour and then the rest of the tour was cancelled -- officially, because Edgar got hurt in an equestrian accident, unoffically?, because Peter split. Duh? Anybody got any contributions here? Ciao -- Mark (Pant, pant, easy boy!) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5215 Re: Studiomiles Mystery John Christian Fri 6/20/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:47 pm Subject: Babylon 5 Really-From: Michael A Jean Did anyone see last weeks episode where Sheridan was being interogated and beaten up? It had some *really* unusual vocal music...Can anyone confirm that this was really a Chris Franke composition... BTW: I received a message from Sonic Images implying there will be some kind of new Babylon 5 -related releases forthcoming.... MJ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5240 Babylon 5 David J. Hughes Sat 6/21/1997 3 KB 5244 Re: Babylon 5 Dennis Nigbur Sat 6/21/1997 3 KB 15572 Babylon 5 J. Lee Jolley Sat 4/10/1999 1 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 10:18 am Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: TangerineC@a... > ... > Well, I'm the one who has the new Tangram and it only says Definitive > Edition on the Cd, but nowhere else. Not even on the cover. The > catalog number is caroline 1704 1805 2. Someone on this list said > that the wrapping had a sticker that said Sbm remastering and all > that. But mine did'nt. Maybe they just did'nt put it on some of them. > Oh well, I'll have to hunt down Tand 11 now. I'll have 3 versions of > this album now. TAND 11 is a white disc with black lettering. At 12 o'clock it bears: T a n g e r i n e D r e a m definitive edition Tangram - Tangerine Dream The words 'definitive edition' are in reverse (ie, white letters over black). This treatment is repeated in the upper left corner of the backpaper and in the upper right corner of the backpaper, just below the skew code is a box bearing: HIGH DEFINITON REMASTERING SBM Super Bit Mapping in teeny-weeny letters (well, 'SBM' is a little larger, but the others are really tiny). If yours says 'definitive edition' on the CD, then I'll bet it is the SBM -- the Americans just forgot to put it on the outside. So you can probably save yourself the expense of getting TAND 11. Have you listened to the Caroline version -vs- the original, AAD version? Can you hear a difference? (I heard the difference with the very first notes.) Cheers -- Mark PS: If you're bound and determined to collect all the CD versions of 'Tangram,' then here's what you need to get: Original cover: white streaks/red bkgnd; no border; tangram logo in upper left. Streaks/red cover: streaks/red bkgnd; grey border; no logo. Streaks/purple cover: streaks/purple bkgnd; grey border; no logo. CD TANGRAM (streaks/red cover) [AAD] Tracks: 1,2 [1984] Virgin (FR,GB) CDV 2147 CD TANGRAM (streaks/purple cover) [AAD] Tracks: 1,2 [1984] Virgin (DE) 610 372-225 [1985] Virgin (DE) 610 380-217 [1985] Virgin (FR,GB) CDV 2147 (Outside: '610 380-217' on a sticker. Disc: 'CDV 2147') CD TANGRAM (original cover) [AAD] Tracks: 1,2 [1990] Virgin (JP) VJCP-2519 CD TANGRAM (unknown cover) [A?D] Tracks: 1,2 [1995] ???... (DE) ???... [19??] Blue Plate (GB) BP001805 CD TANGRAM (original cover) [ADD] Tracks: 1,2 [1995] Virgin (GB) TAND 11 [1997] Caroline (US) 1704 1805 2 Re-appeal: Anybody have that 1995 German release? How about the Blue Plate (ie, Caroline) release: BP001805? Speak now or forever hold it. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:34 pm Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: John Christian > > >Really-From: Mark Filipak > > > >This also brings up an interesting relationship: > > > >Peter left the band after the mysterious 2nd North American concert in > >July of 1977 -- does anyone know where and when that show happened? > > You mean 2nd tour, rather than concert? Voices in the Dunes says dates > between April 26 and July 9 were cancelled, but then lists 4 'added' > dates: San Diego (Jul9), Tuscon (Jul10), LA (Jul12), Toronto (Aug4). Thank you John. Finally, someone knows about other shows in the second NA tour -- and it's in 'Voices' ----- shame on you guys who have 'Voices' and have been mute on this. Now, supposedly only two shows actually occurred. From what John has above, these must be San Diego on July 9th and Tucson on July 10th. But wait! You mean the Greek Theater show on the 12th _didn't_ happen? Huh? And how about it you Beaver lovers. Toronto, August 4th 1977. Get thee to thine local library and look in ye olde Toronto newspapers. Did this show get cancelled or did it happen? Were there actually 4 shows played in the second NA tour in 77? (I expect a full report :-) I'd heard that Edgar supposedly injured himself riding in and around LA. But if they played Toronto.... (beginning to look like Peter split is the reason....) > Hands up who believes that anything other than the first half of Encore > is really a live album? One word: 'Logos.' Er, another word: 'Poland.' -- Mark (haven't we been through _this_ before?) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:50 pm Subject: Heartbreakers Really-From: Michael A Jean I was listening to the Heartbeakers S/T (original CD ;^) ), and really noticed how 'different' the THORNY AFFAIR track is from most other TD compositions...Does anyone have an insight into who may have taken the lead in composing this piece? MJ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 34327 Heartbreakers Paul Lawler Fri 6/14/2002 4 KB 34347 Re: Heartbreakers Dennis Nigbur Sat 6/15/2002 6 KB 34328 Re: Heartbreakers Paul Lawler Fri 6/14/2002 5 KB 34330 Re: Heartbreakers Armin Theissen Fri 6/14/2002 6 KB 34332 Re: Heartbreakers Armin Theissen Fri 6/14/2002 7 KB 34348 Re: Heartbreakers James Horecka, AIA Sun 6/16/2002 3 KB 34358 Re: Heartbreakers Paul Lawler Mon 6/17/2002 2 KB 34360 Re: Heartbreakers Armin Theissen Mon 6/17/2002 3 KB 34364 Re: Heartbreakers Adele Outland Mon 6/17/2002 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 2:21 pm Subject: Steve Schroyder Live in London Really-From: Vic Rek I am looking for a source for a 12' single (EP?) from Steve Schroyder's (aka Star Sounds Orchestra) 'Inter Planetary Ambience - Live in London' double CD. Inter Plantary Ambience was released in 1995 and I highly recommend it. Does anybody have this single or a source where I can obtain it? Midas records had it advertised once, but they never replied to my e-mails - shame on them. Vic From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 2:27 pm Subject: RE: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >>I would say to look for SET ONE also on the foreseen DOUBLE CD-R >>release. This is the vintage set which I think would interest more >>fans anyway. > Odd comment. For me, the great appeal of live TD is that it has >a tradition of featuring a preponderance of non-studio-album material. I agree completely. I don't mind an old melody creeping in from time to time, or some vintage piece played as an encore, but I'd much rather hear stuff composed for the tour than rehashes of album material. Problem is, with all the presets and digital niceties, it sounds note-for-note identical to the albums! Who wants that? I love live performance, but only if the artist is allowed freedom to perform as she or he wants, not just playing note for note. Maybe that's why I like Phish and the Dead so much. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 2:39 pm Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >Thank you John. Finally, someone knows about other shows in the second >NA tour -- and it's in 'Voices' ----- shame on you guys who have >'Voices' and have been mute on this. Now, supposedly only two shows >actually occurred. From what John has above, these must be San Diego on >July 9th and Tucson on July 10th. But wait! You mean the Greek Theater >show on the 12th _didn't_ happen? Huh? There's a tape of the Greek show, so it had better have happened! >And how about it you Beaver lovers. Toronto, August 4th 1977. Get thee >to thine local library and look in ye olde Toronto newspapers. Did this >show get cancelled or did it happen? Also a tape. >Were there actually 4 shows played in the second NA tour in 77? (I >expect a full report :-) The dates: July 9 - San Diego July 10 - Tucson July 12 - LA gap - might this be where the Denver/Boulder show was? Aug. 4 - Toronto I've read that the show was at the U. of Colo, which is in Boulder, so if anyone lives in or near Boulder, could they check perhaps old student newspapers at the univ. library or perhaps contact the venue itself? I'll do what I can, but I'm a little far away. >I'd heard that Edgar supposedly injured himself riding in and around >LA. But if they played Toronto.... (beginning to look like Peter split >is the reason....) Not to pick nits, but I kinda doubt Ed was riding _in_ LA, although that might explain his injury! :-) >> Hands up who believes that anything other than the first half of Encore >> is really a live album? >One word: 'Logos.' >Er, another word: 'Poland.' Ricochet? Pergamon? 220Volt? Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 7:35 pm Subject: Re: tournado Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Wed, 18 Jun 1997 16:08:24 -0600 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Morgan Marks > > >At 03:59 PM 6/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> >> >> >>Has anyone spotted, bought, or even held Tournado in their hot little >>hands? Anyone have any news on finding this?? Or is this another >>Shepherd's Bush Concert 'Official Video' never-to-be? Do I have to go to >>Greece to get one? > >It doesn't even exist yet... Edgar said June 24th will be first >availability, only on tour dates. Then it will be in US stores by August. > >Morgan How about Europe, then? Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 7:53 pm Subject: Re: Drumming Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 03:16:53 -0700 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > >Call me positive, but after Jerome loses his drumming job, and the new >drummer comes in, I think there will be a wobderful improvement. After all, >Jemroe is Edgar's son, and that dosn't make him necessarily the greatest >and most qualified drummer for TD. The drum styles don't chance much >between songs--exception of Goblin's Club which is a good improvement in >adding a variation of styles. Does anyone know if Emil Hachfeld is actually going to stay with TD after the current tour? I thought he was really good. When I talked to him after the Bonn concert, he said that he would quite like to stay in the band, and that Edgar had not told him otherwise yet. If he stays, I think that would be the improvement we are both waiting for. > Truthfully, TD was never known for their drum work until the mid 80's on >up. Before, it was a basic repeatative drum sequence (EX: Logos, >Hyperborea, and many other tracks) with some drum fx in songs where it fit. What about 'Force Majeure' (1979) then? In my view, Klaus Krieger's contribution on that album is the best drumming we've heard from TD so far. Chris's drumming on 'Alpha Centauri' is excellent too...sometimes I wish he had kept his drumkit instead of (that's the legend, at least) selling it after 'Atem' had been recorded. > Songs lose their individuality when the same rock beat is added.. but even >some areas that can be quite mellow but still have a steady drum beat going >in the background--why? Why drum over everything? Exactly my opinion. As far as I remember, 'Tangram' had hardly any drumming at all, and still it's an excellent album. Do you think it might have something to do with computer-aided compositional techniques ('Go on, what could we put into that drum line?')? It seems as if TD had a 'little man in her ear' telling them to use drum lines, which they never used to do in former times... Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 7:58 pm Subject: Re: TD Live (was: Is it TD or is it Memorex?) Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Thu, 19 Jun 97 08:53:49 EDT tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Steven Feldman > > Odd comment. For me, the great appeal of live TD is that it has >a tradition of featuring a preponderance of non-studio-album material. I think people would appreciate if contemporary TD tried to actually perform new material in their concerts...and I'm not talking about bridge music between the 'greatest hits' contributions! Bootlegs from the 70s and early 80s show how much great material they performed live, some of which never made its way onto any official releases (The last track on 'Patrolling Space Borders' is one of my all-time favourite TD tracks). Listening to that stuff, it seems a shame that TD might be losing their ability to improvise due to lack of practice. Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 11:13 pm Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > >> Hands up who believes that anything other than the first half of > Encore > >> is really a live album? > > >One word: 'Logos.' > >Er, another word: 'Poland.' > > Ricochet? Pergamon? 220Volt? > > Scott I think what John Christian was getting at was really 'live'. Ricochet was culled from over 40 hours of taped stuff, so isn't live in that sense (i.e. it's not an entire concert or anything). Pergammon was a reworking of a six year-old concert, and isn't the same as Quichotte (I believe), so isn't 'live'. Poland was sculpted from around 4 or five hours worth of stuff from the Warsaw (?) concert, mainly due to power failures and cold, so is perhaps a 'live' album. Looks like that Live FAQ gonna have to get another blast, goozer! --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5216 Re: Studiomiles Mystery John Christian Fri 6/20/1997 5 KB 5217 Re: Studiomiles Mystery John Christian Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 4:27 pm Subject: Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Really-From: Morgan Marks At 08:14 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >Really-From: Vic Rek > >>>I hear that there are some good copies of the latest tour going around. I >>>wouldn't be surprised if we saw a quality CD-R release of one of the 1997 >>>shows beating the Tournado CD to the stores... But I hope it doesn't get >>>cancelled. >> >>Well, to quote Edgar Froese from the offical TD webpage, 'after listening to >>several fantapes of the 1997 tour, we have decided to release our own >>recording of set two.' > >I would say to look for SET ONE also on the foreseen DOUBLE CD-R release. >This is the vintage set which I think would interest more fans anyway. I heard this part over the Internet simulcast. If you've got Dream Roots collection and Tangents, then you've got most of it. Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 4:33 pm Subject: Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Really-From: Morgan Marks At 08:53 AM 6/19/97 EDT, you wrote: >Really-From: Steven Feldman > > >>I would say to look for SET ONE also on the foreseen DOUBLE CD-R >>release. This is the vintage set which I think would interest more >>fans anyway. > > Odd comment. For me, the great appeal of live TD is that it has >a tradition of featuring a preponderance of non-studio-album material. >When push comes to shove, the boots I seek out most diligently are those >containing such material. I agree here. I'm not looking for a boot which contains the same thing as a previously released studio album. Only in rare cases do they play something better live than in the studio. (White Eagle played during Logos and Stratosfear piano solo played during Encore are notable exceptions!) >I was never one keen to hear what tend to be >lame interpretations of something done with more care in the studio. I >am not a fan of live concert performance, in general, I guess. Wow. You must not have many boots then... >To me, >there are only a handful of musicians who play better live than in the >studio (read: on the spot rather than allowed re-takes), and TD is not >one of them. I'm shocked by this statement. So Logos and Poland bore you then... >LIVEMILES isn't an exception, either: a slack studio >effort disguised as being live is still a slack studio effort. Whoa! You must've missed the explanation stated yesterday which is printed on the back of the Caroline release. They couldn't release most of what they played live, they had to edit together bits and pieces. And yes, there are parts of Livemiles I can do without. I wish Johannes had been involved in Livemiles instead of Haslinger, but maybe I'm just complaining about the instrumentation/patches that were introduced and were played ad nauseum through the Melrose years (Harpsichord and constant rising progressions)... And I do refer to Livemiles as Studiomiles... Morgan From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 3:43 pm Subject: Re: Remember Improvisin' Eddie? Really-From: Paul Nagle ** tadream mailing list wrote to tadream@c... : I'll try not to make this too long.... >Perhaps Edgar is doing too much composing and not enough 'accidental/ >improvised' stuff. I'm not talking 'Composin' Eddie' here -- no >tangents again, please. I'm talking Improvisin' Eddie. >Paul. Are you sure you wouldn't like to eat some of your words? Without attempting to produce a structured and all-encompassing theory of my approach to music, all I will say (I expected something like this question) is that 'live music' is different again. Improvisation is an extension of compositional skills - you 'compose' on the spot and not everybody can do it. And sure, improvisation can also lead on to composition and if that seems to be a contradiction with my earlier post, I'll leave you to work it out! 8-) With synthesizers, improvisation is both harder and easier at the same time; harder because of the complexity of instruments, sequencers, mixers, effects setups - programing modern synths can be quite difficult and to make drastic changes on the fly not always simple (although times are a-changing). It's also 'easier' because you can stack a synth full of amazing sounds beforehand then flick through them playing big chords and looking serious, fading pre-programmed sequences in and out and you've got a TD gig. Well, ALMOST - you also need that 'spark', that memorable ingredient that stands out. And for any concert it's wise to prepare something like this beforehand in case the inspiration doesn't hit you on the night. After all, people are paying to be entertained and you have a responsibility to deliver. Is any of this making sense? The essence of what I'm saying is that live synthesizer music can be very creative but in a different way to composing a studio album. I would not necessarily consider any listener's perspective at all whilst writing 'album' music - that decision only comes later when I think 'shall I release this?' Sorry about all this bandwidth - it just happens to be a subject close to my heart. I'll go away now.. Paul P.S. Craig's analogy of 'authors and hackers' is spot on! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- Paul Nagle - paul@s... www.softroom.demon.co.uk (Upd. 16/06/97) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA? Since When? Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA?!? >Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:22:42 -0700 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >> Really-From: Steven Feldman >> >> [. . .] (I thought the RISKY BUSINESS sountrack was >> never released on vinyl in the US!) > >Sorry Steve. > > [1984] Virgin/Geffen (US) V 2302 According to who?!? Have you -- or anyone else on this list, for that matter -- actually seen a copy?!? I never have. Somehow, I think I'll find THE KEEP before I find a US pressing of RISKY BUSINESS!!! -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5205 Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA? Since When? Michael Fox Thu 6/19/1997 3 KB 5255 Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA? Since When? Mark Filipak Sun 6/22/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 4:00 pm Subject: Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: the Online Version...and CD-ROM?!? At 20:33 199706.18 EDT, you wrote: >Really-From: Steven Feldman >some of the hundreds of pages in VOICES IN THE DUNES onto the web? I >have a hardback copy of the book that would survive being pressed onto >a photographic plate (a paperback copy would inevitably split and crack) >and I'm sure that there are others on this list who also have hardback >copies. To be a bit blunt, I have VITD but I prefer Alan Michael's _The_Dream_Lives_on!_ as it was constructed to allow for updates (of which he only did one before giving up.) AND the data contained within was in Chronological order (like my TD collection) and not in alphabetical order like VITD. IMNSHO, I consider TDLO!:TUCGTHMOTD to be my TD 'bible' over VITD any day of the week. just my $0.02 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way they decide on which instruments to take on the road. /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 4:46 pm Subject: Re: Bootleg discographies etc. Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' > I would say to look for SET ONE also on the foreseen DOUBLE CD-R release. > This is the vintage set which I think would interest more fans anyway. > > Vic Yeah, I also heard something like that. It would be great to have Set I too. I heard it could be released somewhere around the End of July. I'm not sure?!? Marcel Music-page :http://www.pi.net/~m1engels/fsp.htm Email :fsp@p... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 5:24 pm Subject: Re: td in print ? Really-From: TWeibre361@a... TANGERINE DREAM DIGITAL GOTHIC BK (UK) 07/28/97 [$16.99] $15.29 Examination of the bands 30 year career by ambient/ prog rock specialist PAUL STUMP anyone know anything about this? thanks.... tom w np: koolfang II - gig in the sky (fax) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 6:08 pm Subject: RISKY BUSINESS Really-From: David Datta Here are all my notes on Risky Business so far: Tracks in the move: The Dream Is Always The Same 1 Tangram bit 1 Tap Track 1 Get Off The Babysitter Calling Lana Lana Arrives Tangram bit 2 Guido The Killer Pimp The Dream Is Always The Same 2 Tap Track 2 Porsche Takes the Plunge Love On a Real Train 1 Love On a Real Train 2 Tangram bit 3 Goodsens Return 1 Catching The Egg Goodsens Return 2 Love On a Real Train 3 Love On a Real Train 4 (End Credits) Total music in the movie is about 30 minutes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get off the Babysitter Movie version is slightly longer than UK CD. The extension is a repeating loop. Nothing much missed. Press kit version is same as CD & movie but it cuts off sooner than the CD but the cut mirrors the 'abrupt end of fantasy' in the movie version. In the movie, he is fantasizing, stops, then calls Lana. During his call to Lana, the track continues. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lana The UK CD version is the 'complete, long version' The movie has some slightly different synth tones over the intro part & a small snippit edit near the end. The press kit version starts about 1:20 into the movie version and ends exactly where the edit happens in the movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Guido Movie: Length of scene same as UK CD. Music follows same general amplitude as UK CD Music differs in drum sound & all sorts of other special effects UK CD: Different Drum than movie Different guitar chords A synth sound is used in place of car tires & motor noises Press kit: cuts in about 1 minute into the full movie version some repetious short cuts are removed from beginning-middle (about 20 seconds) music otherwise the same as actual movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lovely real trains Press Kit version is the closing credits version, faded before the trains start. POSSIBLE that the 220 Volt version is the same as this, with the trains. 1st LP issue is the actual train sequence from the movie. UK CD/second LP issue is not in the movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Dream Is (not) always the same. Movie contains 2 versions of this track. The first is at the beginning of the movie, he is dreaming about walking in on a woman in the shower. The duration of this track in the movie is 3:34. The second one is during his day at school, the day after getting Lana. Duration 1:51. The 1st LP issue version is an edit of the first movie occurance. It ends at the end of the movie version. The UK CD version is not in the movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Goodsen's return home. Movie version starts, runs about 30 seconds, then the 'catching the egg' cue, followed by this track again. Press kit version contains the second occurance sequence. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5206 RISKY BUSINESS David Datta Thu 6/19/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 1:44 pm Subject: Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA? Since When? Really-From: Michael Fox Steve: Look reeeeaaaalllyy deep into your screen--I'm holding up the US LP of RB. See it? :) Actually the only difference IS LoaRT. It is shorter and the sequencer lines are just a pinch more up in the mix. Also, recall the train scene in the movie and at the end there is a 'spark' and white noise sound as the scene fades--that is on the US LP version. I've never timed it but it might be taken directly from the movie as opposed to a tune used in the movie. I got it right as the flick was released and haven't seen it again since. I got the UK LP about ten yrs ago. Mike At 12:38 PM 6/19/97 EDT, you wrote: >Really-From: Steven Feldman > > >>Subject: Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA?!? >>Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 05:22:42 -0700 >>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >>Really-From: Mark Filipak >> >>> Really-From: Steven Feldman >>> >>> [. . .] (I thought the RISKY BUSINESS sountrack was >>> never released on vinyl in the US!) >> >>Sorry Steve. >> >> [1984] Virgin/Geffen (US) V 2302 > > According to who?!? Have you -- or anyone else on this list, for >that matter -- actually seen a copy?!? I never have. Somehow, I think >I'll find THE KEEP before I find a US pressing of RISKY BUSINESS!!! > > -- Steven Feldman and > > > From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 6:08 pm Subject: RISKY BUSINESS Really-From: David Datta Here are all my notes on Risky Business so far: Tracks in the move: The Dream Is Always The Same 1 Tangram bit 1 Tap Track 1 Get Off The Babysitter Calling Lana Lana Arrives Tangram bit 2 Guido The Killer Pimp The Dream Is Always The Same 2 Tap Track 2 Porsche Takes the Plunge Love On a Real Train 1 Love On a Real Train 2 Tangram bit 3 Goodsens Return 1 Catching The Egg Goodsens Return 2 Love On a Real Train 3 Love On a Real Train 4 (End Credits) Total music in the movie is about 30 minutes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get off the Babysitter Movie version is slightly longer than UK CD. The extension is a repeating loop. Nothing much missed. Press kit version is same as CD & movie but it cuts off sooner than the CD but the cut mirrors the 'abrupt end of fantasy' in the movie version. In the movie, he is fantasizing, stops, then calls Lana. During his call to Lana, the track continues. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lana The UK CD version is the 'complete, long version' The movie has some slightly different synth tones over the intro part & a small snippit edit near the end. The press kit version starts about 1:20 into the movie version and ends exactly where the edit happens in the movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Guido Movie: Length of scene same as UK CD. Music follows same general amplitude as UK CD Music differs in drum sound & all sorts of other special effects UK CD: Different Drum than movie Different guitar chords A synth sound is used in place of car tires & motor noises Press kit: cuts in about 1 minute into the full movie version some repetious short cuts are removed from beginning-middle (about 20 seconds) music otherwise the same as actual movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lovely real trains Press Kit version is the closing credits version, faded before the trains start. POSSIBLE that the 220 Volt version is the same as this, with the trains. 1st LP issue is the actual train sequence from the movie. UK CD/second LP issue is not in the movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Dream Is (not) always the same. Movie contains 2 versions of this track. The first is at the beginning of the movie, he is dreaming about walking in on a woman in the shower. The duration of this track in the movie is 3:34. The second one is during his day at school, the day after getting Lana. Duration 1:51. The 1st LP issue version is an edit of the first movie occurance. It ends at the end of the movie version. The UK CD version is not in the movie. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Goodsen's return home. Movie version starts, runs about 30 seconds, then the 'catching the egg' cue, followed by this track again. Press kit version contains the second occurance sequence. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 7:02 pm Subject: Coma virus-Hidden (review) Really-From: ruediger.illg@h... (Ruediger Illg) >Really-From: TWeibre361@a... >havent heard this one yet...care to post a quick review? thanks, Ok, here it comes: Actually the CD was released in 1996 but I haven't heard about it in '96. By the way: Paul Haslinger is not mentioned in the booklet but the CD was recorded and mixed at The assembly room which is Pauls studio. Also the description of this CD in some catalogues says that Coma virus is Paul Haslinger. The CD contains four tracks (10:56, 16:45, 7:45, 15:33) and the music can be descibed as 'dark ambient'. There are no drum sounds, no melodies, no sequences (sometimes you can hear something like a sequence but it disappears very quickly) and no sounds you may have heard before. Nevertheless there is a kind of tension in these tracks. It is not easy to compare this music with anything I've heard before. It's like a dark soundtrack for your brain. Sometimes it sounds like a distant factory, sometimes like drowning in space, sometimes like being under water. I like it but if you can you should listen before you buy. The label: Side effects PO Box 83296 Portland OR 97283, USA I hope this helps, Rüdiger NP: Les jumeaux - Cobalt (THIS is great!) E-mail: ruediger.illg@h... Home of CONSCIENCE: http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2294 OUT NOW: con13 'Hardware' (C60) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: Re[2]: td in print ? Really-From: 'Roger Smith' Where did you see this advertisement? Looks like a book for us. According to what I can find, Paul Stump is a rock hisorian and critic who writes for the UK magazine The Wire and has recently published a book entitled 'The Music's All That Matters: A History of Progressive Rock,' London: Quartet Books, 1997. Roger ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: td in print ? Author: at Internet Date: 6/19/97 1:24 PM Really-From: TWeibre361@a... TANGERINE DREAM DIGITAL GOTHIC BK (UK) 07/28/97 [$16.99] $15.29 Examination of the bands 30 year career by ambient/ prog rock specialist PAUL STUMP anyone know anything about this? thanks.... tom w np: koolfang II - gig in the sky (fax) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5227 Re: Re[2]: td in print ? TWeibre361@a... Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jun 19, 1997 10:43 pm Subject: Tangerine Dream:Disky Really-From: Morgan Marks Extremely detailed discography details for Tangerine Dream 'TD' released by Disky. (commentary at bottom) ----------------------------- Tangerine Dream 'TD' VI873772 Tracks licensed from EMI Int. Records Ltd. 1996 Disky Communications Europe B.V. Cover Photo: London Features 1. Phaedra......................16.43 2. Mysterious semblance at the strand of nightmares.........10.35 3. Movements of visionary........7.55 (sic) 4. Sequent 'c'...................2.17 5. Rubycon (part one)...........17.16 6. Stratosfear..................10.35 Cover photo is of Edgar, Chris and Peter in a triangular fashion. Peter is smiling. Chris is thoughtful and Edgar is...well, staring straight at the camera. The liner notes (one half-page) are the tracklist with individual artist's credits on each one with year published. This image appears on the front, back, and is screen printed onto the disc. The tracklist text is difficult to read due to overbleed from the black ink. The inside cover (both on the immediate right and on the foldout, facing the liner notes, are an extreme closeup of Edgar's face (just eyes and nose); in black and white, reprinted from a magazine apparently due to the moire pattern. __________Commentary___________ First, the 'kids playing around an indoor pool' sequence has been indexed as part of track 2, 'Mysterious semblance...', instead of being part of the end of Phaedra, as on release I have (Virgin). I forget, is it supposed to be 'Movements of a visionary' or 'Movements of visionary'? Anyway, they've omitted the 'a' on this disc. This is disc is *not* an SBM. This disc is the perfect gift for someone who would like a sampling of 74-76 Tangerine Dream. There is nothing new or unusual on it. At $9.99 from Supercollector, if you've got a single CD player on your desk or in your car, buy it! I've got a changer, so it's not a big deal to me... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 2:14 am Subject: Re: D: Romance '76 (Peter Baumann solo album) Really-From: PhilPDX@a... In a message dated 97-06-16 13:41:55 EDT, you write: << For those who like their TD ominous, baroque, and neo-classical, ROMANCE '76 is right up there with RICOCHET, STRATOSFEAR, ENCORE, and TANGRAM. >> I recall thinking I had to get this, in part because of Mr. Feldman's lists that he sends us now and again, rating TD and solo CD's. (at the time, I had few TD CD's - I've since learned that Steve and I have somewhat different taste in TD - for example, hooray for Franke's solo stuff! :-) Anyway, I find this CD to be something of a disappointment. As Steve pointed out, it is incredibly short - my CD reads 33:02. I would forgive this if every track were excellent, but IMO they are only ok. The electronic liberty bell sound on Phase By Phase detracts from an otherwise promising piece. Romance is just a little too cute. It sounds like it could be outtakes from Stratosfear, which makes sense given the time period. Gee, since Stratosfear was only about 36 minutes, maybe he could have convinced Edgar and Chris to add the best of his disc to it? Pity. I must admit, I haven't played this disc that often, and playing it now, I could see that this could grow on me. The 3 pseudo-classical pieces at the end are an interesting experiment, sounds like he's been listening to Schulze but taken it in a slightly different, ah, tangent. (couldn't resist) This is why I love the weekly discussions - I'm going to have to dust this off and play it a few more times. So maybe next month I'll raise my 3 AS to a 4, who knows? Phil D. (are the other Phils still on this list? there used to be so many of us...) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5213 Re: D: Romance '76 (Peter Baumann solo album) Capel Martyn Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 7:22 am Subject: Way off Topic: New DR.WHO Soundtrack CD by John Debney Really-From: Fordat1@a... f anyone is interested there is a very limited number of copies of John Debney's score to the American vesion of 'Dr.Who' featuring Additional Music by John Sponsler & Louis Febre. It's IMHO (and I produced the promo disc) a great blend of Electronic and Orchestral colors that might be of some interest to the readers of this list. It's now available from the Super Collector for $20 (Plus Postage and Handling), as well as the usual soundtrack album mail order outlets. Check out their website or call em for faster service. SUPER COLLECTOR 16547 Brookhurst Fountain Valley, CA 92708 Direct: 714-839-3693 Fax: 714-839-8263 Toll-Free: 800-997-2434 (USA ONLY) Email: Supercollector@s... Website: www.supercollector.com Here is the basic informaton about the disc 'DR. WHO' Music by John Debney Additional Music by John Sponsler & Louis Febre 'Dr.Who' Theme Composed by Ron Grainer (1.) Prologue: SKARO (A) /DR. WHO Theme (E) (2.) Breakout (A) (3.) Wimps (A) /Doctor #7 is Shot (C.) (4.) Aftermath (C) (5.) X-Ray (A) /Snake in the Bathroom (C) (6.) 'Who Am I?' (B) (7.) City Scape (C.) (8.) Time (D) (9.) Primitive Wiring (B) /The UnBruce (D) (10.) Two Hearts (D) (11.) The Tardis (D) /True Identity (D) (12.) Night Walk (D) (13.) The Eye of Harmony (B) /Half Human (B) (14.) Unil Midnight (B) /Atomic Clock (B) (15.) Green Eyes (A) (16.) The Chase (C) (17.) Beryllium Clock (B) /Bragg's Key (B) (18.) Slimed (D) (19.) Under the Influence (B) (20.) Crown of Nails (C) (21.) Lee's Last Chance (C) (22.) 'Open The Eye' (A) (23) 'Reroute Power!' (A) /Temporal Orbit (D) (24.) To Hold Death Back (D) (25.) Farewell (D) (26.) End Credits-'DR.WHO' Theme (E.) (A.) Composed by John Sponsler (ASCAP) (B.)Composed by Louis Febre (BMI) (C.) Composed by John Debney & John Sponsler (ASCAP) (D.) Composed by John Debney & Louis Febre (ASCAP/BMI) Regards, Ford A. Thaxton (fordat1@a...) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 7:51 am Subject: Re: Tangram Definitive Edition Really-From: TangerineC@a... In a message dated 97-06-19 19:04:09 EDT, you write: > At 12 o'clock it bears: > > T a n g e r i n e > D r e a m > definitive edition > > Tangram - Tangerine Dream > > Yes. It's the same on the American version. It just doesnt say it on the cover. I guess i'll save my money and hold on to this. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 7:56 am Subject: Re: D: Romance '76 (Peter Baumann solo album) Really-From: martyn@i... (Capel Martyn) Hello, Just letting you know there's one copy of Romance 76 used on CD at the site: http://www.compactdiscovery.com for $7.95. I hope this info is a help to someone out there! Martyn From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 8:04 am Subject: STRANGE BEHAVIOR Really-From: TangerineC@a... I'm watching Strange Behavior as I write this, and noticing how most of the music sounds like the begining of Force Majeure. The title track sounds like it came from Sorcerer. And a lot of it sounds like The Keep. So why dont they release this soundtrack? Hemdale owns it. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 7:56 am Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: John Christian In article <199706191353.IAA07304@c...>, tadream mailing list writes >It's also possible that there were _two_ >shows at the Greek Theater. All I know is supposedly, there were two >shows played in that second tour and then the rest of the tour was >cancelled -- officially, because Edgar got hurt in an equestrian >accident, unoffically?, because Peter split. Duh? Anybody got any >contributions here? Voices lists fantapes for Toronto and LA, but not for the other two so maybe they got cancelled too. It's not clear why they are listed differently to the other cancellations if that's the case. Matt? The real[*] dirt on this was revealed in yet another 'I can't remember which' MT inteview. It's boring. An ELP tour went bust, which bankrupted the promoter who was also doing the TD tour. At this point Chris added 'Yes, but Edgar _did_ fall off a horse!'. There's no indication why they felt they had to provide a more rock'n'roll story. I think Peter leaving afterwards was really afterwards, i.e. the tour had finished so he buggered off to do his Sinatra covers. I guess Encore was released because they suddenly couldn't do a new studio album. Or even fake a new live album :). JC [*] or at least different. They do have a fiction problem when it comes to inteviews. I'd hate to be writing a definitive biog. -- John Christian - mail:john@p... AirSculpture Try out WebMaze at ADVERT: **AIRSCULPTURE+P.NAGLE LIVE AT JODRELL BANK UK * 28 JUN 97 * EMAIL FOR DETAILS** From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 7:47 am Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: John Christian In article <199706191517.KAA10910@c...>, tadream mailing list writes >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > > >> Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >> >> >> Hands up who believes that anything other than the first half of >> Encore >> >> is really a live album? >> >> >One word: 'Logos.' I have my doubts. There's one piece where an entire melody line has been dropped and another added. OK, you COULD do this from live tapes but I'm not sure you'd bother. After all, this tour is the most rigid I can think of. Does anyone have any examples of a Logos gig with a single mistake/improv/expressive playing different to the rest? I consider the jury out on this one. Did anyone see the Manor Mobile? Was it just used to record the announcer? ;) >> >Er, another word: 'Poland.' ISTR They said in interview that this was pretty heavily edited/redone. I don't have fantapes, but the 2nd half doesn't sound like the stuff I'd expect them to do live on an 83 tour. But I've been surprised before. >> Ricochet? Pergamon? 220Volt? 220V I can't comment on. It's post abduction. >> >> Scott > >I think what John Christian was getting at was really >'live'. Ricochet was culled from over 40 hours of taped >stuff, so isn't live in that sense (i.e. it's not an entire >concert or anything). Exactly. After so much studio fiddling, even the official line makes it a sort of music concrete thing that happens to use live material as a source. Plus I'm not convinced it's all from live stuff anyway. I don't have an exhaustive set of 75 live tapes, but there's a lot of stuff on Ricochet that don't sound right. Off the top of my head - the leslied sequence on side 2, the drums (on side 2), the mellotron derived tape loops (on side 2...hmmm...either a patttern here or I need to listen to side 1 again), even the piano solo which is significantly like things to come in 76 and 77. >Pergammon was a reworking of a six >year-old concert, and isn't the same as Quichotte (I >believe), so isn't 'live'. True. (Thanks Andrew, I can now say this with confidence :) Pergamon is almost exactly the same as Quichotte. Quichotte is totally different to the concerts. >Poland was sculpted from around 4 or five hours worth of >stuff from the Warsaw (?) concert, mainly due to power >failures and cold, so is perhaps a 'live' album. See above! >Looks like that Live FAQ gonna have to get another blast, >goozer! Sorry to stir things, but you asked! In that interview I mentioned (sorry I can't remember a source, but MT 86 is most likely, I'll see if I can find it) they were quite open about this. The result has to be an album good enough to stand years of listening so they do what's neccesary. Sometimes the motive is worrying though, LiveMiles does make the words 'Cynical' and 'Marketing' spring to mind. The mythical Alberquerque recording was released just before they made their big push for the US market. Coincidence? Anyway, I can take the moral high ground on this one. Our next album is a live one, and it's the entire concert recorded straight to DAT. No editing at all. JC -- John Christian - mail:john@p... AirSculpture Try out WebMaze at ADVERT: **AIRSCULPTURE+P.NAGLE LIVE AT JODRELL BANK UK * 28 JUN 97 * EMAIL FOR DETAILS** From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 8:58 am Subject: Re: Studiomiles Mystery Really-From: John Christian Um. Kindly ignore my ramblings about what part of Ricochet certain bit are, as they are totally wrong. All other ramblings stand. NP: Ricochet (obviously) JC -- John Christian - mail:john@p... AirSculpture Try out WebMaze at ADVERT: **AIRSCULPTURE+P.NAGLE LIVE AT JODRELL BANK UK * 28 JUN 97 * EMAIL FOR DETAILS** From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 11:22 am Subject: tournado available now!!! Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> I just got this message hot in my mail box!!! If someone in bounce-land has already posted it, sorry but it just came in within the last 3-4 hours and us digest-ees can't tell whether it has been posted or not... lars NEW LIVE-CD: TOURNADO AVAILABLE FROM VOICEPRINT NOW!!! After listening to lots of live recordings from the first leg of TD's European Tour, Jerome and Edgar made a very spontaneous decision: On June 23rd they will release the second half of the Tour set as a 'Live in Europe'-CD called TOURNADO on their own label TDI. Sales start will be during the two gigs in Athens and Thessaloniki on the 23/24th of June. Shortly after that date the CD will hit the shops near you. What to say about the music and packaging? The first time in TD's history the original live recording will remain 'untouched', which means no overdubs, no polishing, no editing between various tracks, no 'mix together' of crowdnoise from place A into place B - common business by the way - so what will be heard is the complete one of the master-recording from... most of you won`t believe it: ZABRZE in Poland at the Dom Muziki on April 23rd,1997. You can order this CD through ourselves. All prices include P&P and payment must be made in UK Sterling. We accept cheques and PO's and IMO's. Our address is PO Box 50, Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne & Wear DH4 5AL. Alternatively, you can call the credit card hotline (24hr voice) on FREEPHONE 0500 829262 (UK) FREEPHONE 1-800 567 9185 (USA) FREEPHONE 0130 818502 (Germany) or Mail Order contact Simon Hart (9am - 6pm) on +44 (0)191 5842120 or 24 hours +44 191 5121109 where we accept Visa/Mastercard/Eurocard and American Express. You can also order via this email address! Best Regards Anne Marie Hill Web address: http://webworlds.net/the-wilderness/ Credit Card Hotline: (0)191 512 1109 (24 hrs - automated answering machine between 3:30pm and 9am GMT) Freephone UK: 0500 829262 Freephone USA: 1 800 567 9185 Freephone Germany: 0130 818502 Fax Hotline: (0)191 512 1104 USA ADDRESS: Resurgence, 61 East 8th Street, 189 Greenwich Village, NY 10003, USA UK ADDRESS: P O Box 50, Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne & Wear DH4 5YP Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5220 tournado available now!!! Andy Bloyce Fri 6/20/1997 2 KB 5221 Re: tournado available now!!! Vincent Goudreault Fri 6/20/1997 3 KB 5246 Re: tournado available now!!! John Christian Sat 6/21/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 11:34 am Subject: Castle Livemiles Insert Notes Really-From: 'Greg Heil' Really-From: Mark Filipak > Could some kind person enter in the entire text from the Castle > release. I only have the original release and would like to add this > material in place of what I have, which is obviously wrong. _________________________________________________ Here ya go Mark! Castle release insert notes ------> L I V E M I L E S 'Following the release of the problematic studio album Tyger in June 1987, Tangerine Dream entered another one of their -- to coin a phrase from Edgar Frose himself, 'more or less critical periods.' Within the next year the group would server their uneasy relationship with the Jive Electro label, losing a key member along the way. Consequently, the appropriately-titled Live Miles live album was the last new material composed by Frose, Chris Franke, and Paul Haslinger, appearing on Jive in April 1988.' 'As has become customary with Tangerine Dream's live outings, Live Miles features two lengthy, continually-segued tracks, 'Live Miles (Part One): The Albuquerque Concert' -- performed during the TD North Amenrican tour in June/July 1986 -- and 'Live Miles (Part Two): The Berlin Concert,' recorded during an open air concert with an audience of 42,000 people to celebrate the 750th anniversary of the City of West Berlin in August 1987. 'Frose: It's a very controversial record -- a lot of people have said it's not live. We did a rehearsal in the afternoon at Albuquerque during the sound check. Part of the album was recorded then and another part was recorded during the gig itself. We also used a bit of an encore and a little portion of the Albuquerque concert was performed later on in New York which we subsequently edited into the same performance.' 'The reason we performed a two and a half hour set including material which had previously been released on record which we could not release on the Albuquerque or Berlin concerts becuase they were blocked by copyright with other record componies. So we had to cut out the new pieces and bring them together to form a new record. From time to time we had to build new musical 'bridges' between these parts and some of those bridges had to be played later on whilst editing the material. Those bridges are only half a minute or maybe a minute long, but the music in-between has been performed.' (End quote by Frose) ' Referring to the Berlin concert, the album's original sleeve notes thank, 'all the people who gave us their energetic support to perform under 'real stormy circumstances,' to which Frose adds, 'Exactly half an hour before our performance started Barlin was hit by real strong rainfall, so we had to take care to get everything in the right shape just to perform because you can imagine what an open air gig can do to electronic instruments.' (End quote by Frose) 'Immediately after the Berlin concert Franke left Tangerine Dream, relocating to Los Angeles where he currently resides as a sucessful soundtrack composer in his own right. Frose: 'Chis and I always had a curious relationship. We worked together for 17 years, but, throughout all of that time, we met privately on just one occasion back in '76 when his girlfriend at the time invited us for a meal at their home. Apart from the music, I would have never met that guy.' (end quote by Frose) 'Commenting on his departure, Franke later concluded, 'it enabled Tangerine Dream to take a new direction automatically -- a kind of natural progression.' Tangerine Dream subsequently became a duo of Frose and Haslinger, ironically signing with former member Peter Baumann's Los Angeles-based Private Muisc label -- a four-year period known as 'the Melrose Years.' Froses's son Jerome officially joined in 1990, whilst Haslinger also headed for an LA solo career in 1991 with a terminal case of what Frose fonly calls the 'American influenza,' leaving father and son to fly the Tangerine Dream flag into the next millennium. Text by JONATHAN MILLER (February/March 1996) ________________________________________ Yeah!! And I got it all done with two-fingure typing! ohhhh my.. my finger aches! =) Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: tournado available now!!! Really-From: Andy Bloyce <100703.542@C...> >Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> >I just got this message hot in my mail box!!! If someone in bounce-land >has already posted it, sorry but it just came in within the last 3-4 hours >and us digest-ees can't tell whether it has been posted or not... >lars >NEW LIVE-CD: TOURNADO >AVAILABLE FROM VOICEPRINT NOW!!! [...] >...or Mail Order contact Simon Hart (9am - 6pm) on +44 (0)191 5842120 or 24 hours >+44 191 5121109 >where we accept Visa/Mastercard/Eurocard and American Express. Steady now Lars, you'll do yourself a mischief. Just spoke to Simon, although the post says it's available now - it isn't, just yet. He estimated about a week and a half before they get them. Then they go straight out. But he''l take your order now if you want, then you get it first. I've got mine on order 8-) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 12:58 pm Subject: Re: tournado available now!!! Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' > Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> > > > I just got this message hot in my mail box!!! If someone in bounce-land > has already posted it, sorry but it just came in within the last 3-4 hours > and us digest-ees can't tell whether it has been posted or not... > lars (...) I got it too, through direct mailing as you did. I guess they got our names by acessing tadream majordomo. Note that the mail does not quote the price, though it says that 'all prices include P&P'... C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: TOURNADO: What's the Rush? Really-From: Steven Feldman It seems to me that since TOURNADO (dumbest TD pun since ROCKOON?) will be 'available at theatres everywhere,' so to speak, very quickly-- even on *this* side of the pond, why spend the extra money on an import? Am I being dense, here? I mean, there weren't any difererences announced re pre-release alternative takes or packaging or whatnot. I suspect that people are paranoid now because OASIS hasn't seen a proper commercial release yet. Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Dreams Word, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ________ ^ ^ 33 Brook St #3 ^ ^ ^ Emdreams, CNI News, Contact ^ ^ ^ __--- ---_ Brookline Mass ^ ^ ^ Forum, _PEER_ Perspectives, ^ ^ - _ \ 02146-6913 USA ^ ^ ^ the Nausicaa list, Tadream, ^ ^ | /_/ \ | (617) 232-3876 ^ ^ ^ & Hong Kong Film Connection ^ ^_- __/_// __ |/ BITNET: ar402004@b... ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ - (|/ '()` <()/ ^ INTERNET: sfeldman@w... ^ ^ ^ ^ \_ O .> | ^ HAYAO MIYAZAKI DISCUSSION GROUP: nausicaa@b... ^ /--_/ -__ -- / ^ <*> Address for subscribing: listserv@b... <*> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --- ^ ^ From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 1:44 pm Subject: Livemiles Double LP Really-From: Michael A Jean To add to the fray... I have an autographed TD photo / discography from back in '83 or '84. THAT discography list Livemiles as a forthcoming 2 LP release from 1984. (I suspect this turned out to be Poland -The Warsaw Concert)...So I was really suprised when Livemiles appeared as a single disc several years later. Interestingly enough, that discography also lists THE KEEP as an official release... MJ From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 1:46 pm Subject: Riding accident?? Really-From: ashok prema >I'd heard that Edgar supposedly injured himself riding in and around >LA. But if they played Toronto.... (beginning to look like Peter split The clip above was noted from some comment...........let's get this record straight! The reason why those concerts were cancelled were because the promoter got into financial trouble with another larger band (ELP perhaps or some other then major name) - it was felt more prudent to use the 'riding accident' excuse at the time. In a subsequent interview , when this point was brought up Edgar admitted that there had been no such accident - in fact he couldn't even ride a horse - to which Chris, ever the joker, laughingly returned ' maybe thats why you fell off!!' (Sorry for the name-dropping again Dave - but I'm sure Digest members will excuse it on this occasion). Ash From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 2:29 pm Subject: Ricochet source Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' Going through the manuscript for my book, I found that there were only about 50 shows that Ricochet could have been taken from. At an average of 100 min. per show (a conservative estimate) that only allows 83 hours of stuff from which to draw Ricochet. Where'd they get 400? Assuming they meant 400 hours of LIVE material. . . Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5229 Re: Ricochet source Vincent Goudreault Fri 6/20/1997 3 KB 5273 Re: Ricochet source Craig R. J. Cordrey Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5296 Re: Ricochet source Plumer, Scott Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: 'Cliff Dwellers' Percussion: Who's Responsible? Really-From: Steven Feldman Amid all the moaning and groaning about Jerome's percussion, I'm curious who's responsible for the percussion on the OASIS track, 'Cliff Dwellers.' This track is highly reminiscent of the music on the Edgar solo, BEYOND THE STORM, and the 'TD' sountrack, ZONING, so I'm going to assume that the percussion is by him rather than Jerome. Is this a safe guess? -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5237 Re: 'Cliff Dwellers' Percussion: Who's Responsibl Gabe Yedid Sat 6/21/1997 3 KB 5238 Re: 'Cliff Dwellers' Percussion: Who's Responsibl Greg Heil Sat 6/21/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 3:10 pm Subject: Re: Re[2]: td in print ? Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-06-19 16:57:15 EDT, you write: << TANGERINE DREAM DIGITAL GOTHIC BK (UK) 07/28/97 [$16.99] $15.29 Examination of the bands 30 year career by ambient/ prog rock specialist PAUL STUMP >> Where did you see this advertisement? Looks like a book for us. According to what I can find, Paul Stump is a rock hisorian and critic who writes for the UK magazine The Wire and has recently published a book entitled 'The Music's All That Matters: A History of Progressive Rock,' London: Quartet Books, 1997. im subscribed to a 'new releases' mailing list...never very informative, but timely at least... tom w np: paul schutze - site annubis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 3:10 pm Subject: Re: Concerts in Greece cancelled! Really-From: TWeibre361@a... In a message dated 97-06-19 19:04:06 EDT, you write: << To me the pregnant question is: What is it that Edgar wants from the local promoters that he's not getting? >> only brown m&ms in his bowl? tom w From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 3:48 pm Subject: Re: Ricochet source Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' On Jun 20, 10:29am, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: Ricochet source > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > > Going through the manuscript for my book, I found that there were only > about 50 shows that Ricochet could have been taken from. At an average > of 100 min. per show (a conservative estimate) that only allows 83 hours > of stuff from which to draw Ricochet. Where'd they get 400? Assuming > they meant 400 hours of LIVE material. . . > > Scott >-- End of excerpt from tadream mailing list Perhaps they are counting each track (on a multi-track tape) individually. If they consider that track one from concert X is to be retained, but with track 2 of concert Y, that still makes a lot of music to go through. C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: Re: Warsaw concert broadcast Really-From: Michal Balcerzak I taped the broadcast, but missed last 3 minutes, ie. it's on the other side of the tape. I'll try to transfer it to CD and inform you as soon as it will be ready. Cheers! Michal From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: FW: New Tangerine Dream CD!!! Really-From: Alistair Hull ---------- From: Anne Marie Hill[SMTP:AM@v...] Sent: 20 June 1997 11:33 To: rch Cc: goozer; alistair.hull; toerne; tdmania; JHLRock; nop30497; WDQM60A; Steeve0; mariovescovi; dherman Subject: New Tangerine Dream CD!!! NEW LIVE-CD: TOURNADO AVAILABLE FROM VOICEPRINT NOW!!! After listening to lots of live recordings from the first leg of TD's European Tour, Jerome and Edgar made a very spontaneous decision: On June 23rd they will release the second half of the Tour set as a 'Live in Europe'-CD called TOURNADO on their own label TDI. Sales start will be during the two gigs in Athens and Thessaloniki on the 23/24th of June. Shortly after that date the CD will hit the shops near you. What to say about the music and packaging? The first time in TD's history the original live recording will remain 'untouched', which means no overdubs, no polishing, no editing between various tracks, no 'mix together' of crowdnoise from place A into place B - common business by the way - so what will be heard is the complete one of the master-recording from... most of you won`t believe it: ZABRZE in Poland at the Dom Muziki on April 23rd,1997. You can order this CD through ourselves. All prices include P&P and payment must be made in UK Sterling. We accept cheques and PO's and IMO's. Our address is PO Box 50, Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne & Wear DH4 5AL. Alternatively, you can call the credit card hotline (24hr voice) on FREEPHONE 0500 829262 (UK) FREEPHONE 1-800 567 9185 (USA) FREEPHONE 0130 818502 (Germany) or Mail Order contact Simon Hart (9am - 6pm) on +44 (0)191 5842120 or 24 hours +44 191 5121109 where we accept Visa/Mastercard/Eurocard and American Express. You can also order via this email address! Best Regards Anne Marie Hill Web address: http://webworlds.net/the-wilderness/ Credit Card Hotline: (0)191 512 1109 (24 hrs - automated answering machine between 3:30pm and 9am GMT) Freephone UK: 0500 829262 Freephone USA: 1 800 567 9185 Freephone Germany: 0130 818502 Fax Hotline: (0)191 512 1104 USA ADDRESS: Resurgence, 61 East 8th Street, 189 Greenwich Village, NY 10003, USA UK ADDRESS: P O Box 50, Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne & Wear DH4 5YP From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 5:56 pm Subject: Re: new album Really-From: TWeibre361@a... here ya go gang: NEW LIVE-CD: TOURNADO AVAILABLE FROM VOICEPRINT NOW!!! After listening to lots of live recordings from the first leg of TD's European Tour, Jerome and Edgar made a very spontaneous decision: On June 23rd they will release the second half of the Tour set as a 'Live in Europe'-CD called TOURNADO on their own label TDI. Sales start will be during the two gigs in Athens and Thessaloniki on the 23/24th of June. Shortly after that date the CD will hit the shops near you. What to say about the music and packaging? The first time in TD's history the original live recording will remain 'untouched', which means no overdubs, no polishing, no editing between various tracks, no 'mix together' of crowdnoise from place A into place B - common business by the way - so what will be heard is the complete one of the master-recording from... most of you won`t believe it: ZABRZE in Poland at the Dom Muziki on April 23rd,1997. You can order this CD through ourselves. All prices include P&P and payment must be made in UK Sterling. We accept cheques and PO's and IMO's. Our address is PO Box 50, Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne & Wear DH4 5AL. Alternatively, you can call the credit card hotline (24hr voice) on FREEPHONE 0500 829262 (UK) FREEPHONE 1-800 567 9185 (USA) FREEPHONE 0130 818502 (Germany) or Mail Order contact Simon Hart (9am - 6pm) on +44 (0)191 5842120 or 24 hours +44 191 5121109 where we accept Visa/Mastercard/Eurocard and American Express. You can also order via this email address! Best Regards Anne Marie Hill Web address: http://webworlds.net/the-wilderness/ Credit Card Hotline: (0)191 512 1109 (24 hrs - automated answering machine between 3:30pm and 9am GMT) Freephone UK: 0500 829262 Freephone USA: 1 800 567 9185 Freephone Germany: 0130 818502 Fax Hotline: (0)191 512 1104 USA ADDRESS: Resurgence, 61 East 8th Street, 189 Greenwich Village, NY 10003, USA UK ADDRESS: P O Box 50, Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne & Wear DH4 5YP From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 6:30 pm Subject: Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Really-From: TangerineC@a... In a message dated 97-06-20 08:15:21 EDT, you write: >but maybe I'm just complaining about the >instrumentation/patches that were introduced and were played ad nauseum >through the Melrose years (Harpsichord and constant rising progressions)... >And I do refer to Livemiles as Studiomiles... Are you kidding? I love those progressions! From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: Peter.Stoeferle@t... (peter stoeferle) Hi, quite astonished that already the second debate about a remake of the 'Voices in the dunes' discography turns up within half a year, this is the chance for me - one of the authors of the book - to point your attention to some important points. First of all, I feel uncomfortable about the style and the direction of this discussion on the Mailing List. A few people have started to debate about a re-release, a CD-ROM-version, an Online version and an Internet publication of the scanned book. None of the people talking about the idea as well as about the technical side of realizing it have asked Matt Hargreaves, Rolf Sonnemann or me before. We are the authors - and this book is still our work, regarding the efforts of compiling the data as well as the general legal conditions. We have already passed our arguments to several people (on this Mailing List and beyond) when we learned that they had plans to duplicate the book in a printed, CD-ROM or data base version. Regarding several points of the discussion of the last few days, it seems to be necessary to hint onto our points of view as well as onto our legal interests in a public way: >> You know, there are currently at least eight people on this list >> involved in creating/writing discographies and/or books and/or histories >> of Tangerine Dream. For those not keeping a record, there is: >> >> o Klaus Beschorner (contributor to TD bible VOICES IN THE DUNES) >> o Matt Hargreaves (co-writer of TD bible VOICES IN THE DUNES) >> o Scott Plumer (writing a TD book of his own) >> o Mark Filipak (currently creating an exhaustive TD discography) >> o Morgan Marks (compiling the 'Sickeningly Detailed TD Discography') >> o Lars Jones (currently creating an exhaustive TD tape list) >> o John Burek (maintaining an exhaustive TD tape list) >> o Steve Feldman (maintaining the format-oriented TD Pocket Discography) Not all of these people do efforts for a publication that could be compared to 'Voices in the dunes', they cover several fields of TD collectables. This is a good idea, because specialists on several subjects turned out: on bootlegs, on concert tapes, on promos, on Japanese vinyl, and and and... But if a great number of people tries to put up a release in a *discography* type like 'Voices in the dunes', what would be the result? Parallel efforts would not make each single of five, ten or more results better; they would enlarge quantity of such publications but not necessarily their quality. What sense would it make if ten or even more different discographies hit a market of perhaps only a few hundreds hard core collectors worldwide? The result would probably be better if all the efforts focuss onto one publication. >> >>[ Steve suggests CD-ROM VitD] >> >> Sounds like a good idea to me, Steve. The only small >> problem I see is the fact that it is just like a book, in >> that it cannot evolve within re-issues. At least an on-line >> version can always be expanded/corrected/updated as >> required. >> >> A big question: how practical would it be to use a scanner to put >> some of the hundreds of pages in VOICES IN THE DUNES onto the web? I >> have a hardback copy of the book that would survive being pressed onto >> a photographic plate (a paperback copy would inevitably split and crack) >> and I'm sure that there are others on this list who also have hardback >> copies. > > This would be great. Then us poor sods who don't have the > book would have access to its fountain of knowledge > on-line, and some people wouldn't have to keep telling us > to look in the book when we don't have it 8-). > >> Am I just farting in the breeze, here, or is such a proposition a >> possibility? > > I don't know if it is either practical or possible, but it > certainly something I would support. We, the authors of course feel a little bit proud on our work because there is still public demand for the book which has been out of print for some two years now. For us, this is exactly the reason for still compile updates and corrections for a future re-release of the book. We do have the intention to do such a re-release in an improved and re-designed style, even if we do not yet have detailed plans and we cannot yet tell you the date of release. Probably we have the most largest and detailed data base of several hundreds new entries, corrections and updates for doing such a re-release. It may be easier to type all the record titles and reference numbers into the Internet or store them on a CD-ROM or simply to reprint the book without permission, and all of this may be much faster than we could do a re-issue - but what sense would it make? The idea of a second edition of the book should be to offer a *complete* discography - or at least a discography including as much information as possible. Thus, information compiled by several people around the world should be put together: I'd like to invite anybody to become contributor of such a book. And last not least - 'Voices in the dunes' is due to copyright in Germany and in the USA. These rights are owned by the authors - Matt Hargreaves, Rolf Sonnemann and me, Peter Stoeferle. Any scanning and reproduction of the book, no matter whether in printed version, on CD-ROM or in the Internet without our permission is a violation of copyright laws and thus illegal. The data itself contained in our book may be regarded as public domain, but not the way it is compiled and presented in our book. Thus, we will refuse permission for anybody to create an electronic version of the book. We had planned five years ago to update the book once enough time had passed and enough new material could be added. In a conversation with Edgar Froese in April, 1996, he said we could have access to the Tangerine Dream archives for the reissue, and I hope he will confirm this soon. The hard work to overhaul the book will require a substantial time and monetary investment. These efforts may be destroyed by anybody who tries to duplicate and update our work in a less professional way. Just because the book is out of print does not give anybody the right to copy it and make it available via printed or electronic form. We will protect our copyright. Be sure, I do not feel happy to communicate by letters like this one with people who have the same intention as I do: collecting Tangerine Dream records. But please imagine to be in the situation of us, the authors: What would you say if you have written a non-profit book with huge efforts and are planning an update release, and someone else comes and does it in an illegal way? Please keep in mind: Any intents to duplicate 'Voices in the dunes' will put at odds with our intention of updating the book and re-issueing it. Peter Stoeferle co-author of 'Voices in the dunes' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5245 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Andrew J. Rozsa Sat 6/21/1997 3 KB 5250 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Vic Rek Sat 6/21/1997 3 KB 5270 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Andrew J. Rozsa Mon 6/23/1997 4 KB 5263 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Klaus Beschorner Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5264 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Klaus Beschorner Mon 6/23/1997 5 KB 5269 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Mark Filipak Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5274 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Craig R. J. Cordrey Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5293 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Plumer, Scott Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB 5294 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Plumer, Scott Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 9:58 pm Subject: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Really-From: 'Simon W. Hood' In article , tadream mailing list writes >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >PS: To clarify about Peter's departure. It was the second NA tour. The >first tour was from 29 March (Milwaukee) to 25 April (Santa Monica). >But I specifically asked about the second show _in July_. This was the >second NA tour as the first NA tour ended in April. The first venue in >July was on the 12th at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles. Does anyone >know where the second (and last) show in July occurred. Of course, it >is possible that the Greek Theater _was_ the second show and it's the >_first_ show that's unknown. It's also possible that there were _two_ >shows at the Greek Theater. All I know is supposedly, there were two >shows played in that second tour and then the rest of the tour was >cancelled -- officially, because Edgar got hurt in an equestrian >accident, unoffically?, because Peter split. Duh? Anybody got any >contributions here? > >Ciao -- Mark (Pant, pant, easy boy!) I'm sure I've seen somewhere in print Edgar admitting that the reason for the second 1977 NA tour being cancelled was *not* because of 'an equestrian accident'. IIRC he stated that he 'could hardly even ride'. He went on to say that it was because Emerson, Lake and Palmer split up at that time. Consequently, ELP's US concerts were cancelled, and the promoters went bust. TD were caught in the fallout from this. Given time I might be able to find the article in which this 'confession' appeared. -- Simon W. Hood Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5236 Re: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Hermes Guzman Sat 6/21/1997 5 KB 5281 Re: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Plumer, Scott Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5286 Re: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Vincent Goudreault Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5305 Re: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Mark Filipak Tue 6/24/1997 4 KB 5352 Re: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Vincent Goudreault Wed 6/25/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 1:37 am Subject: Re: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) Greetings all! >Really-From: 'Simon W. Hood' > >I'm sure I've seen somewhere in print Edgar admitting that the reason >for the second 1977 NA tour being cancelled was *not* because of 'an >equestrian accident'. IIRC he stated that he 'could hardly even ride'. > >He went on to say that it was because Emerson, Lake and Palmer split up >at that time. Consequently, ELP's US concerts were cancelled, and the >promoters went bust. TD were caught in the fallout from this. > >Given time I might be able to find the article in which this >'confession' appeared. >-- >Simon W. Hood Here's the section with the anecdote, taken from the _Electronic Soundmaker and Computer Music_ magazine, 1985: +++++++++++++++++++++ Q: Do you often use old pieces of music for films, TV or the theatre and give them further exposure on an album? Edgar: 'No, although we counted around ten whole albums' worth of unused material from our last years with Virgin. When we were doing __Encore_ in 1977 we used a piece of music that we'd made for the play _Oedipus Tyrannus_ at the Chichester Festival under Keith Mitchell a couple of years before. Generally we wouldn't do that, but one of the reasons was the departure of Peter Baumann. The whole record was done when Peter decided to stay in the States so we looked back to what we had and used a couple of pieces from rehearsals we did, and the _Oedipus_ pieces which came from CBS studios in London in '74-'75.' Christoph: 'It(s) maybe that we'd take a piece we'd done for a film and play it live, but to be perfectly honest most of the film music pieces are much too complicated to play live because of all the cue points in the film. That particular piece was very slow and floating so it would have been much easier.' JIVE ALIVE Since we were on the subject of _Encore_, the bands' live double album from their 1977 American tour, I asked a few more pointed questions about that era-such as whether 'Coldwater Canyon' was a genuine live piece? Edgar: 'Why do you think it wasn't? In fact we played that piece on a lot fewer dates than the others because it came from the second half of the tour. The first part went very well but the second half was knocked down after three concerts. We always said I broke my arm falling off a horse, which was b*******. I can hardly ride a horse. (Christoph adds 'that's probably why you fell off it'). The real reason was that all the concert promoters went bankrupt because Emerson. Lake and Palmer had just cancelled their massive tour with a 120-piece orchestra. We were part of the disaster and we lost a lot of money on the tour. We had to grab together some bits and pieces-on 'Cherokee Lane' there were pieces from three ot four concerts, so we got a lot of letters saying 'I've got the tape from the concert you played here and I can't find that part anywhere!'' 'Sometimes we played for three hours and even on a double album you've only got four times twenty minutes, so obviosly you have to edit things down.(...)' +++++++++++++++++++++ There's more to come...; ) goozer From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 3:02 am Subject: Re: 'Cliff Dwellers' Percussion: Who's Responsible? Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > > Amid all the moaning and groaning about Jerome's percussion, I'm > curious who's responsible for the percussion on the OASIS track, 'Cliff > Dwellers.' This track is highly reminiscent of the music on the Edgar > solo, BEYOND THE STORM, and the 'TD' sountrack, ZONING, so I'm going to > assume that the percussion is by him rather than Jerome. Is this a > safe guess? I'd have to say yes, in this case. The drum track reminds me most of 'Alaskan Summer' from _Lily_ more than anything else. Keep in mind that Edgar is not a trained percussionist, whereas drums were Jerome's first instrument. Sometimes Ed can come up with something more unconventional than Jerome (blinded by the orthodoxy of his rock drumming, sometimes)--but he doesn't always get it right; I think Ed's drum 'signatures' tend to be snaps, handclaps, congas, and clip-clops, plenty of which you can hear on _Oasis_, and on 'Cliff Dwellers' in particular. Other times, though, Jerome's percussion would have helped the piece a LOT more--most of the drums on 'Sad Merlin's Sunday' come to mind... which I thought was kind of funny, because most of the percussion on _BtS_ and _Zoning_ is actually pretty good (for Ed). > -- Steven Feldman and Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 21, 1998 4:04 am Subject: Re: 'Cliff Dwellers' Percussion: Who's Responsible? Really-From: 'Greg Heil' > > Really-From: Steven Feldman > Other times, though, Jerome's percussion would have helped the piece > a LOT more--most of the drums on 'Sad Merlin's Sunday' come to >mind... which I thought was kind of funny, because most of the >percussion on _BtS_ and _Zoning_ is actually pretty good (for Ed). Edgar helped Jerome on percussion in 'Sad Merlin's Sunday' I believe? It must have been in the selection of percussion as I think it it isn't very complex as to require two people to perform it--unless it was performed with real percussion! It seems though, that especially in 'Rising Hall in Silence' that real percussion and drums were performed, recorded with mics, and mixed in--hence the staticy and overall muffledness of the sound. Greg From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 4:58 am Subject: Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Really-From: PNaunton@a... In a message dated 97-06-20 07:56:45 EDT, you write: << For me, the great appeal of live TD is that it has >a tradition of featuring a preponderance of non-studio-album material. I agree completely. I don't mind an old melody creeping in from time to time, or some vintage piece played as an encore, but I'd much rather hear stuff composed for the tour than rehashes of album material. Problem is, with all the presets and digital niceties, it sounds note-for-note identical to the albums! Who wants that? I love live performance, but only if the artist is allowed freedom to perform as she or he wants, not just playing note for note. Maybe that's why I like Phish and the Dead so much. Scott >> Excuse me for butting in here. I really don't have the right, having never seen or heard TD live. That's my loss. I have seen other music groups live. Some that can play 'studio tracks' note for note on stage. The Pat Metheny Group and some other jazz oriented people can play 'note for note', I've heard them do it. But 'Note for note' is not enough to call it identical to the recorded track. There is tempo, rhythm, interaction, dynamics, speed, audience feel, and probably dozens on other elements which make a performance 'sing' and rise above and beyond the reproduction of a 'canned' track. Performers can 'milk' the audience, and a good audience can 'milk' the best efforts out of a performer or group of performers. I've heard some fan tapes of TD, but recent ones have a very artificial sound to them, once the body of a familiar track gets going. If anything the audience gets subdued, or seemingly so, by the rigid schedule of the Midi operation. No room for spontaneity - - or life. I may be wrong here, but it seems that the bridges are under looser control and here the music runs into a kind of spontaniety, but I may be reacting to an unknown territory within myself, as far as familiarity with this particular music phrasing is concerned. The rest seems to get old quickly. Perhaps it is like the difference between a Quartz-Crystal controlled drum track and a live drummer. The live drummer can modify to suit any- and everything that is going on. The pace is _constantly_ changing as his or her mind continuously evaluates the situation and adjusts but still controls the result. The Quartz-Crystal can split that second into thousands of identical parts, but it cannot read an audience or realize that we can goose this section tonight because 'It's Right'. What? No one said, 'A penny for your thoughts?'? Oh, well, there's no charge. ;-) Phil Naunton From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 8:10 am Subject: Babylon 5 Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) Hello all, >Really-From: Michael A Jean > >Did anyone see last weeks episode where Sheridan was being interogated and >beaten up? It had some *really* unusual vocal music...Can anyone confirm >that this was really a Chris Franke composition... > >BTW: I received a message from Sonic Images implying there will be some >kind of new Babylon 5 -related releases forthcoming.... Please, please, please : don't give away the plot lines to any more Babylon 5 stories. We Brits haven't seen any of the new series yet and we're still coming to terms with the loss of Garibaldi at the end of the last series. If you must discuss the music please stick to times and rough outlines. If you want to discuss plot specifics please stick a cautionary note in the subject advising B5 addicts to skip the message. I don't want to spoil your enjoyment of the digest but please, please don't spoil my enjoyment of the one series on TV which seems to have a brain of its own... Cheers David T-Bass UK : Electronic Music T-Bass Design : Graphic Design Web Site : http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dhughes/tbass.html email : dhughes@g... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 2:30 pm Subject: Improvising Really-From: Ian Shillingford >Really-From: Mark Filipak > >[snipped a bit here] >>>...,<<.>...<.<.>,.,,. CRACK ,,.<>.>.>,...>.,.,,., > >Something clicked into place and I said to myself, 'I wonder when the >last time was that Edgar just jammed, improvised, stopped composing and >just 'banged out a tune?'' > >Perhaps Edgar is doing too much composing and not enough 'accidental/ >improvised' stuff. I'm not talking 'Composin' Eddie' here -- no >tangents again, please. I'm talking Improvisin' Eddie. ====Ting!==== You just reminded me of an article in Music Technology of January 1991- just after 'Melrose' and a UK tour. (Q:What the hell am I doing with a music-making mag when I can't play a note? A: Edgar, Jerome and Paul were on the cover!) I quote: '...However, according to Froese the change in emphasis has also resulted from a desire on the group's part to get away from improvisation - in the early days Tangerine Dream's hallmark. .... 'Nowadays we've got the control, so we can aim at something in a way which we couldn't even have thought of in the early days. And simply because we improvised for almost 15 years, to us it's fascinating to become very disciplined and to know exactly what we want to do. So now we do the normal thing of composing a piece from scratch all the way through, but it's not normal for us, therefore it has an exotic aspect.'' So I guess it's a concious decision to compose, with spare time taken up with creating new sounds for their keyboards. Hmmm, I think I'll read this article again, as I haven't read it for a few years. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 7:30 pm Subject: Oedipus Tyrannos Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 20:37:51 -0500 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: goozer@a... (Hermes Guzman) > >Edgar: 'No, although we counted around ten whole albums' worth of unused >material from our last years with Virgin. When we were doing __Encore_ in >1977 we used a piece of music that we'd made for the play _Oedipus >Tyrannus_ at the Chichester Festival under Keith Mitchell a couple of years >before. Do you know which part of 'Encore' it is that they took from Oedipus? Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 7:39 pm Subject: Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 00:58:51 -0400 (EDT) tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: PNaunton@a... > I've heard some fan tapes of TD, but recent ones have a very >artificial sound to them, once the body of a familiar track gets going. If >anything the audience gets subdued, or seemingly so, by the rigid schedule of >the Midi operation. No room for spontaneity - - or life. I may be wrong >here, but it seems that the bridges are under looser control and here the >music runs into a kind of spontaniety, but I may be reacting to an unknown >territory within myself, as far as familiarity with this particular music >phrasing is concerned. The trouble with these bridges, in turn, is that they are _bridges_, and nothing else. They serve the purpose to link one song to the next, and hence, the performers don't seem to have their heart in it when they play. The same goes for the audience - after, say, 'Dolphin Dance' is over and the bridge is being played, their thoughts are midway in between the point where they were humming along to the tune that's just been played, and a state of anticipation which song might be next. They _know_ that there is another familiar melody to come after at most 1-2 minutes, and they tend not to pay a lot of attention to the bridge music. A shame for both sides really, as TD are undoubtedly excellent in the skill of improvisation, and allocating a larger proportion of the show to previously unreleased (maybe even unplayed) material rather than a 'Greatest Hits Medley' would inspire both the musicians and the audience. Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 7:41 pm Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 09:10:28 +0100 tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: dhughes@g... (David J. Hughes) >Please, please, please : don't give away the plot lines to any more Babylon >5 stories. We Brits haven't seen any of the new series yet and we're still >coming to terms with the loss of Garibaldi at the end of the last series. >If you must discuss the music please stick to times and rough outlines. If >you want to discuss plot specifics please stick a cautionary note in the >subject advising B5 addicts to skip the message. I don't want to spoil your >enjoyment of the digest but please, please don't spoil my enjoyment of the >one series on TV which seems to have a brain of its own... I entirely agree, Dave. I wish I had a video to tape the episodes, and just watch them all over again before the next series starts. Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 3:51 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 10:03 PM 6/20/97 +0100, Peter Stoeferle wrote: [.....] >Be sure, I do not feel happy to communicate by letters like this one with people >who have the same intention as I do: collecting Tangerine Dream records. But >please imagine to be in the situation of us, the authors: What would you say if >you have written a non-profit book with huge efforts and are planning an update >release, and someone else comes and does it in an illegal way? > >Please keep in mind: Any intents to duplicate 'Voices in the dunes' will put at >odds with our intention of updating the book and re-issueing it. > >Peter Stoeferle >co-author of 'Voices in the dunes' Now listen people! I want all of you who are working on books on TD to stop this instant. We all want to wait until we are 60, for Mr. Stoeferle's book to make its appearance. In the meanwhile, we want to participate in auctions where an occasional copy is bid exorbitant prices. Not! :-( Mr. Stoeferle has a long way to go toward understanding a music fan's psychology. Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Fri Jun 20, 1997 12:59 pm Subject: Re: tournado available now!!! Really-From: John Christian Aha! > The first time in TD's >history the original >live recording will remain 'untouched', which means no overdubs, no >polishing, no >editing between various tracks, no 'mix together' of crowdnoise from >place A into >place B Case closed :) JC -- John Christian - mail:john@p... AirSculpture Try out WebMaze at ADVERT: **AIRSCULPTURE+P.NAGLE LIVE AT JODRELL BANK UK * 28 JUN 97 * EMAIL FOR DETAILS** From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 6:31 pm Subject: Ricochet Really-From: ashok prema All this talk of Ricochet and how much of it was live...whatever.....but virtually the whole of side 2 comes from the Croydon 75 concert (or was it 76??) - shows the incredible talent of the band at their best!! Ash Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 18646 Re: Ricochet twosheds Tue 10/26/1999 1 KB 18648 Re: Ricochet Craig Chambers Tue 10/26/1999 1 KB 18649 Ricochet Sean Montgomery Tue 10/26/1999 2 KB 24000 Ricochet Andrew Sharpe Sun 9/17/2000 3 KB 24177 Re: Ricochet Andrew Sharpe Mon 10/2/2000 4 KB 24179 Re: Ricochet Marcel Engels Mon 10/2/2000 2 KB 24181 Re: Ricochet Steve Mon 10/2/2000 3 KB 24195 Re: Ricochet Andrew Sharpe Tue 10/3/2000 2 KB 24197 220V remaster Matthew Stringer Tue 10/3/2000 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 8:26 pm Subject: td in print? DIGITAL GOTHIS Really-From: 'Jason P. Hopkins' >Really-From: TWeibre361@a... > >In a message dated 97-06-19 16:57:15 EDT, you write: > ><< TANGERINE DREAM DIGITAL GOTHIC BK (UK) 07/28/97 [$16.99] $15.29 > Examination of the bands 30 year career by ambient/ prog rock > specialist PAUL STUMP > >> >Where did you see this advertisement? Looks like a book for us. > >According to what I can find, Paul Stump is a rock hisorian and critic >who writes for the UK magazine The Wire and has recently published a >book entitled 'The Music's All That Matters: A History of Progressive >Rock,' London: Quartet Books, 1997. > > >tom w > The full title is Digital Gothic: A critical Discography of Tangerine Dream, the ISBN number is 0 946719 18 7, published by SAF Publishing. Out July? A very in-depth look at the career and music of TD. A very interesting read, but have a dictionary handy! BtH and Voyager assisted with information and pics. for this production. --Jason. P.S. This is for those who thought I'd disappeared off the face of the Earth. I am still alive (just), and kicking. ++++++++++++++++++++ + JASON P. HOPKINS + ++++++++++++++++++++ VOYAGER MAGAZINE Tangerine Dream & E/M Magazine Holly Farm, 37 Main Street, Kilby, Wigston, Leicestershire, LE18 3TD, England. ** E-Mail: jasonh@g... ** ** 'Phone: +44 116 240 2255 ** ** Fax: +44 116 240 4217 ** From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 8:46 pm Subject: new piece not given in tracklist? Really-From: Gabe Yedid I took a look at the tracklist posted on TD's website for the '97 tour. Several people here who have been to the concerts, and heard the Netcast, commented on a lengthy (~13 min, if memory serves) piece in set 2 that featured a Hachfeld drum solo and a lot of random sounds--I remember Sean speculated that Edgar might have been using an e-ball here. No such thing seems to be indicated in their posted tracklist, though. Was this only for the first few shows of the tour, or can we expect to hear this in _Tournado_? (or the forthcoming boot) Gabe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5253 Re: new piece not given in tracklist? Dennis Nigbur Sun 6/22/1997 3 KB 5261 Re: new piece not given in tracklist? Gabe Yedid Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB 5344 Re: new piece not given in tracklist? feldon@n... Wed 6/25/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sat Jun 21, 1997 10:01 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: Vic Rek At 09:51 AM 6/21/97 -0600, you wrote: >Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' >Now listen people! I want all of you who are working on books on TD >to stop this instant. We all want to wait until we are 60, for Mr. >Stoeferle's book to make its appearance. In the meanwhile, we want >to participate in auctions where an occasional copy is bid >exorbitant prices. > >Not! Hey, I can understand the frustration here with getting accurate TD info. Much of it probably has been exchanged on this list in one way or another. It's difficult to keep up on TD and releated releases for any avid fan, but let's not doubt our sources here. By the way, I don't think that the authors have anything to due with these issues selling at inflated prices - it's just the market working here. They did the hard 'leg work' for us fans. >Mr. Stoeferle has a long way to go toward understanding a music >fan's psychology. Andrew, this statement is way off base, sorry. Only a true fan could have undertaken such an effort! Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5270 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Andrew J. Rozsa Mon 6/23/1997 4 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 7:14 am Subject: Rumpelstiltskin Really-From: AslanFan1@a... A couple of people never sent money, so I still have a couple still sealed copies of the now out of print soundtrack 'Rumpelstiltskin.' Please forgive me if anyone here is tired of hearing this, but since it's out of print, I thought people would appreciate the opportuntity to get theirs while they may, plus new members may have joined the list. So, if anyone wants one, please email me for the details asap while supplies last. Thanks, Alan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5252 Re: Rumpelstiltskin Capel Martyn Sun 6/22/1997 2 KB 5256 Re: Rumpelstiltskin Lon Lowen Sun 6/22/1997 2 KB 5476 Hello? Mark Jones Sat 6/28/1997 2 KB 5254 Re: Rumpelstiltskin Francisco Salgado C. Sun 6/22/1997 2 KB 6229 Rumpelstiltskin AslanFan1@a... Fri 8/1/1997 2 KB 7227 Rumpelstiltskin AslanFan1@a... Tue 9/23/1997 2 KB 7228 Re: Rumpelstiltskin Anthony G. Francis, Jr. Tue 9/23/1997 3 KB 7235 Re: Rumpelstiltskin Jeffrey Au-Yeung Wed 9/24/1997 3 KB 27299 Rumpelstiltskin olle.rundgren@s... Fri 6/1/2001 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 7:24 am Subject: Re: Rumpelstiltskin Really-From: martyn@i... (Capel Martyn) You wrote: > >Really-From: AslanFan1@a... > > >A couple of people never sent money, so I still have a couple still sealed >copies of the now out of print soundtrack 'Rumpelstiltskin.' Please forgive >me if anyone here is tired of hearing this, but since it's out of print, I >thought people would appreciate the opportuntity to get theirs while they >may, plus new members may have joined the list. So, if anyone wants one, >please email me for the details asap while supplies last. >Thanks, >Alan > Was just curious, is this one in a jewel box, or is it the one on Rabbit Ears Records, that has poster & is cardboard? Martyn Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5256 Re: Rumpelstiltskin Lon Lowen Sun 6/22/1997 2 KB 5476 Hello? Mark Jones Sat 6/28/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 5:05 pm Subject: Re: new piece not given in tracklist? Really-From: Dennis Nigbur On Sat, 21 Jun 1997 16:46:43 -0400 (EDT) tadream mailing list wrote: >Really-From: Gabe Yedid > > >I took a look at the tracklist posted on TD's website for the '97 tour. > >Several people here who have been to the concerts, and heard the Netcast, >commented on a lengthy (~13 min, if memory serves) piece in set 2 that >featured a Hachfeld drum solo and a lot of random sounds--I remember Sean >speculated that Edgar might have been using an e-ball here. In Bonn, the drum solo was nowhere near 13 minutes long, and was played at the very beginning of the second set. It is untitled, and hence doesn't appear in the tracklisting on the TD homepage. Whether it appears on Tournado or not will depend on the precise set they are playing in Poland - if memory serves, they were going to play a slightly different set from that of the other concerts. Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5261 Re: new piece not given in tracklist? Gabe Yedid Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 11:56 am Subject: Re: Rumpelstiltskin Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: AslanFan1@a... > > A couple of people never sent money, so I still have a couple still sealed > copies of the now out of print soundtrack 'Rumpelstiltskin.' Well, I would like to have it. Please tell me how to send you the money. Francisco. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 10:23 am Subject: Re: RISKY BUSINESS on LP in the USA? Since When? Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: Michael Fox > > Steve: Look reeeeaaaalllyy deep into your screen--I'm holding up the > US LP of RB. See it? :) Actually the only difference IS LoaRT. It is > shorter and the sequencer lines are just a pinch more up in the mix. > ... Thanks Michael. It would be really nice to have a timing of this version of 'LOaRT' -- I suspect it is 2:18. Easier would be the matrix number. Could you send it to me? Thanks and Ciao -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 3:25 pm Subject: Re: Rumpelstiltskin Really-From: lllowen@n... (Lon Lowen) martyn@i... (Capel Martyn) wrote: > Was just curious, is this one in a jewel box, or is it the one on > Rabbit Ears Records, that has poster & is cardboard? Wow, a jewel box version was actually made? I wish I would have known that back when it was in print. The cardboard display one I have is rather annoying when it comes to storage. :) -- Lon Lowen lllowen@n... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5476 Hello? Mark Jones Sat 6/28/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 5:54 pm Subject: Voices In The Dunes Really-From: Mathew Hargreaves Dear Andrew J. Rozsa, What is a true-fan ? Both Peter Stoferle and I, plus Rolf Sonnemann invested several combined years on Voices. It was one of two projects that was attempting to bring together the vast amount of information on Tangerine Dream and make it accessable for the fans. The project initiated with Peter and Rolf. Early on Peter had to drop out due to his job. I joined Rolf, and with my computer, a lowly 8086, and set out to bring the early rough notes into a finished book. >From my joining to completion of the project it took 2.5 years. That was working every day. I also held a full time job and was working on two other books. All completed for very enthusiastic fans. The books sold out because their was a strong fan base who wanted the kind of information that the books were meant to deliver. Yes, there are some errors but this is a tremendous amount of information to check and recheck. The small problems outweigh the tremendous good the book brought to the fans. A correction to Peter's posting: the book actually sold out four years ago. We had publicly stated that the intention was to revise, correct, and expand to book after about 5 years. This allowed the band to generate enough information for inclusion. At this point I feel there is plenty and the work on the book has begun. How long it will take I cannot say. The main section covering albums has been redesigned and updating is in progress. The other sections will follow, and an index will be generated at the end of the book for handy reference. The best part of this new update is Edgar told us we could have access to the TD archives for information and concert shots of the band. The book is to feature only concert photographs with the cover in four color. All of this takes time and a lot of money. The book will be better and easier to use for all of the changes taking place. We also never claimed to know everything about the band's output. I joined the project because I wanted to know. I had started collecting Electronic music in 1974 and it turned out that there really was nothing new for me to listen to. I had heard almost every official release of TD's music. It was thrilling though to be compiling a book on TD that had never existed before. Edgar told me after he recieved the book from me here in Seattle; he did not know about 30% of the releases shown in the book. It was satisfying that even the band learned new information from the book. I expect it will take a year to make the changes needed for the book. This entails redesign, corrections to the old text, new-information inclusion, and incorporating new releases information as the book is being worked on. Rolf and I spent five intense years building the book with the help of TD collectors worldwide, with the goal of seeing the information disseminated to other fans. We also spent about $14,000 in manufacturing, postage, and research costs. It took three years to sell out the small edition of 1,100 copies. In the end I feel we broke even, but there were a lot of happy fans. WE three fans invested in a projected we believed in. But it could not have been completed without the help of fans worldwide. These contributors know too the amount of work that went into the project. None of us regret it and all are preparing to overhaul the book. Have some patience. You will definately live till you are 60 if you take it easy. :-) Sincerely, Matt Hargreaves P.S. There are a lot of informed fans on this mailing list that do not actively post messages, but they DO watch from the sidelines. Peter Stoeferly is one of them. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5271 Re: Voices In The Dunes Andrew J. Rozsa Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 7:07 pm Subject: V.A. - Synthesizer Really-From: Vic Rek Various Artists - Synthesizer BMG Ariola Benelux B.V. SP 6277, 1993 15 tracks, 2 by TD track 6 - Midnight in Bear City track 12 - Peacock Island other artists are: Ray Lynch, Vangelis, Suzanne Ciani, Synthesizer Orchestra, Alan Parsons Project, Patrick O'Hearn From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 8:21 pm Subject: Re: Babylon 5 Response Really-From: Michael A Jean Sorry about that guys... I didn't know there were so many fans among the list membership...I realize the UK viewers are somewhat behind. I caught an episode while visiting London in November, and tried to figure exactly how much behind you were, but I couldn't tell... The US season finale was broadcast this past Thursday...Any future comments will only refer to the title of the episode (OK?)...You are definitely in for an exciting season! MJ From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 12:42 am Subject: Tangents for You? Really-From: Sturminatr@a... In a message dated 97-06-22 03:02:44 EDT, you write: Hey all, Was in my local CD shop today, and I saw a copy of Tangents sitting there for the low, low price of $35 (alright, it was actually $34.99, but I'm charging you a $.01 for my trouble). Anybody missing out on this gem that wants to get a copy? Email me privately and for some S&H, it can be yours. Hoping to be helpful, B. Kirby PS - Any comments on the new BtH? Besides the fact that Johannes suddenly looks like he aged about ten years in two? From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Sun Jun 22, 1997 11:49 pm Subject: Re: new piece not given in tracklist? Really-From: Gabe Yedid On Sun, 22 Jun 1997, tadream mailing list wrote: > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > > In Bonn, the drum solo was nowhere near 13 minutes long, and was played > at the very beginning of the second set. It is untitled, and hence doesn't > appear in the tracklisting on the TD homepage. Whether it appears on > Tournado or not will depend on the precise set they are playing in Poland - > if memory serves, they were going to play a slightly different set from that > of the other concerts. I thought the sets they played in Zabrze were more or less the same as the previous shows? > Dennis Gabe From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: Address again... Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) Hi folks, my laptop has not survived this trip, so until I get it back repaired all mail that has been sent to my 'klaus@i...' address is not accessible to me. -klaus- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) >Now listen people! I want all of you who are working on books on TD to >stop this instant. We all want to wait until we are 60, for Mr. >Stoeferle's book to make its appearance. You're right, but chose your target. Peter and the other VOICES editors are going for a COMPLETE discography. This takes time. You're free to do whatever you want on your own accord. All he sais is: don't just scan/copy VOICES. >In the meanwhile, we want to participate in auctions where an occasional >copy is bid exorbitant prices. Bullshit. The (mint, untouched) copy on my auction didn't go because no-one even bid the original retail price. And before selling it for less I'd rather give it away to some moneyless fan in the east or other frieds. >Mr. Stoeferle has a long way to go toward understanding a music fan's >psychology. I assure you, he hasn't. But maybe you have a long way to go to understand the effort needed to really get something like they project issued. Feel free to try, anyway. We've all started your way ;-) -klaus- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) >quite astonished that already the second debate about a remake of >the 'Voices in the dunes' discography turns up within half a year, this >is the chance for me - - one of the authors of the book - to point your >attention to some important points. Having been on the road I missed the discussion that was going on before, but I think I have a few important points to mention. I have, and still do, encourage the editing team of VOICES to make an elctronic version, in whatever format, available. The book is out of print, so no commercial harm. The commercial intent behind VOICES has always been only to cover cost, by the way. My arguments have been that an electronic version would be excellent promotion for the updated book coming, and if they don't do it, somebody's going to bootleg it, anyway, because the demand is there. It seems that this thread proves my second point. To the editors: =============== Think it over. Issue an electronic version YOURSELF. As a courtesy to the people who can't buy the book because it's out of print, and as promotion for the coming new release. To the potential bootleggers: ============================= Think it over. VOICES is copyright-protected, as every book is, by it's flaws and errors. Unless you redo everything from scratch, any typo you've scanned from the book will reveal where you scanned the info from, and this holds in court. It has put a phonebook-CDROM company in germany out of business, because German Telecom was able to proof, exactly by this point, that they had just scanned in their telephone directories. And if you're telling yourself 'ok, if those editors are sulking about someone using their data, and can't get something going soon, then I will ask Edgar for access to the archives and get it done this year'... Reconsider. It doesn't work this way. Peter knows very well what I'm talking about, as we both have been involved in a failed 'Information Service' project back in 1983-85. Edgar has heard hundreds of promises later broken. I admire the VOICES and DC team for their stamina, over decades, to prove their dedication, and it worked. It will only work this way. The hard way. Again, to the editors: ====================== Think it over. There's a lot of people out there, willing to contribute. You are the only ones with the means, especially Edgar's trust, to really get something great going. Be leaders. Define a form sheet, and put it on the web (or email) to make individual or bulk entries for the discography. And again, the bootleggers and contributers: ============================================ Go for what's realistic to get something real, contribute to the COMPLETE TD discography. Cooperate with the VOICES team, because they are the only ones for years with the trust of the band to pull this through. Your name in the acknowledements will be the reward. And, as my bootleg discography article has proven, your contribution need not be limited to this project. Keep your own work, polish and update it, and make it available on the net. And talk and coordinate with the VOICES team, so that your part can be fitted, nice and fitting, in its latest revision, into the new book when it finally goes to print. And, a last word to the editors: ================================ No-one has done what you've done with VOICES before. No-one has kept electronic discograhies up to date for more than very few years. Be confident. Again, leadership is called for, here. Make it clear that you don't stand in the way of other efforts (I know you don't!), coordinate and lead them. -klaus- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: Bootlegged Dreams Update #19 Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) Hello, it's been a long time since I've posted any updates, and I'm still trying to make up with 3 boxes of new, uncataloged material that has accumulated since I've moved. Anyway, here's at least a brief list of what's new, and in time I'll fill in the running times and qualities. TD-BOOTLEGS (CD-R) ------------------ . .96 'SoundTrax' (unreleased soundtrack excerpts) 71 8 CDR 02.04.75 London 'Ruby in the sky' ('Coefficient 1+2 as 2CDR) 120 9 CDR xx . .95 Berlin Studio rehearsals 'Logotypes' CDR . .96 Koeln 'Nachtmusik' (from the radio broadcast) CDR . .96 'Electrick Rockoon' CDR 30.11.96 London 'Live in London' 3CDR (concert+soundcheck) CDR 21.04.77 Seattle 'not yet titled' ############ CDR 31.01.80 Ostberlin 'Beyond the Wall' CDR . .96 'Oranges from France' (Orange '75+Sobornost+Catwalk) CDR 16.08.75 'Oranges from France' (Orange,'Seeker of Dreams pt1-3') CDR TD-BOOTLEGS ----------- .03.86 Paris '3 Tier Dream On' CD . .96 'Rubycon revisited' (pirate mix of TD and Bl.Sabbath) CD 10.04.77 Montreal 'Laserium' (identical to 'Patrolling..') 74 9 CD xx -klaus- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: New book: 'Cosmic Dreams at play' Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) Among the 56 pounds of books (no kiddin') I carried back with me from the USA was a A4-sized, softcover, 230+ pages, color, glossy paper print of COSMIC DREAMS AT PLAY A guide to german progressive and electronic rock by Dag Erik Asbjornsen First published in Great Britain in 1996 by Borderline Productions, P.O. Box 3819, Glasgow, G34 1UT ISBN 1-899855-01-07 Almost 7 pages in it are dedicated to TD itself, some more to solo stuff. Two things in this book, which is otherwise a very nice guide to this era, struck me by surprise : 1) all discographies end in 1989. Some extremely scarce bits mention dates as late as 1992, but that's it. 2) I myself am credited in the acknowledgements, and I have no idea how I got there. Then again, if I supplied some info to this guy before 1989 I wouldn't remember, anyway. Before everybody runs for it : as a TD discography it's useless. Nothing new that's not already available on the net, even the TD-bio is vintage material. -klaus- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 3:44 am Subject: A listening experience I had to share this with you listers: I was going to work Thursday nite (I work 2300-0730 S-Th) listening to C.Franke's 'Scattered Thoughts of a Canyon Flight' from _Klemania_ that I had mixed onto a cassette (along with _Goblins_Club_). It was about 2249, and I was in the parking lot of my employer and had parked and was in the process of rolling up my windows when a freight train rolled by ~300metres away unbeknownst to me. The train's air horn sounding actually counterpointed a part of the piece. At first I thought, 'That sound isn't part of the composition, but it fits in.' then I realised that it was complete and utter serendipity. Many thanks to SP railways for making my night. 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way they decide on which instruments to take on the road. /^\ | pete | penfold@a... | | | YA .semi.random.sig.quote From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 4:17 am Subject: ARNAUD DE BONALD Really-From: Mark Filipak Excuse me Folks. But this appears to be the only way... Hey Arnaud! How does a person send email to you? I've tried: arnaud@b... twice and it got rejected both times. Host unknown (Name server: bookshop.epita.fr: host not found) Contact me please. Thanks Folks. ... We now return to our regularly scheduled chaos ... -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 4:22 am Subject: Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: Mark Filipak tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Klaus_Beschorner@b... (Klaus Beschorner) > ... > To the editors: > =============== > ... > To the potential bootleggers: > ============================= > ... > Again, to the editors: > ====================== > ... > And again, the bootleggers and contributers: > ============================================ > ... > And, a last word to the editors: > ================================ > ... > Make it clear that you don't stand in the way of other efforts (I know > you don't!), coordinate and lead them. Dear Matt, Peter, and Rolf. Thanks for your efforts in the past. We do all appreciate it. But Klaus is right. You could best start by _not_ blowing off people who volunteer to help you. Best Regards -- Mark From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 5:40 am Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 06:01 PM 6/21/97 -0400, Vic Rek wrote: [.....] >Hey, I can understand the frustration here with getting accurate TD info. >Much of it probably has been exchanged on this list in one way or another. >It's difficult to keep up on TD and releated releases for any avid fan, but >let's not doubt our sources here. That was not my point. My point is that I have been wanting a book on TD for years and I have not been able to get a single one. They are all out of print. Therefore, I would much prefer getting something NOW, even if it's not the non plus ultra, rather than wait years before some author feels inspired enough to update his magnum opus. >By the way, I don't think that the authors have anything to due with these >issues selling at inflated prices - it's just the market working here. They >did the hard 'leg work' for us fans. That was just for emphasis. I understand market economics. Price has nothing to do with my statement. However, I do dislike auctions. But that's another discussion. >>Mr. Stoeferle has a long way to go toward understanding a music >>fan's psychology. > >Andrew, this statement is way off base, sorry. Only a true fan could have >undertaken such an effort! I stand by my statement. He may be a great fan and a true lover of TD, but he does not understand how I/we feel, otherwise he would either let the gentlemen working assiduously on their books do their work (and help them) or produce something on his own. NOW! Not tomorrow, not next year. At least he ought not hinder. Nobody will get rich writing a book on TD. So it must be pride. Certainly NOT a desire to share with others. Unless I am mistaken, many of us are willing to pay much higher prices to get some TD-related material today, rather than wait until it gets to us. Otherwise how do I explain buying 'Oasis' from The Netherlands, when it will certainly be here (in the US) in a couple of months? But what do I know?...... I think that my attempt at humor failed miserably. Next time I will pepper my note with lots and lots smiley and winkies. OK? Best, Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 6:00 am Subject: Re: Voices In The Dunes Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa' At 05:54 PM 6/22/97 +0000, you wrote: >Really-From: Mathew Hargreaves > > >Dear Andrew J. Rozsa, > >What is a true-fan ? > >Both Peter Stoferle and I, plus Rolf Sonnemann invested several combined >years on Voices. It was one of two projects that was attempting to bring [....] Dear Mr. Matthew Hargreaves, I never doubted your sincerity or Herr Stoeferle's.... Or that it took a tremendous effort to put together the book, in the first place. I just think you do not understand those of us who would prefer to have SOMETHING now, instead of something tomorrow, even if the later 'thing' is MUCH better. Thank you for your advice on longetivity. :-) Respectfully, Andrew From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 8:55 am Subject: patience Really-From: Mathew Hargreaves Hey Andrew, It is impossible to provide everything to you on a silver platter 'Now'. No matter what form the book takes, be it paper or electronic, it will still require a lot of time to put that vast amount of information into a coherent and presentable (readable) form. The old edition of 'Voices' is a starting point for any collector wanting information through 1990. As Klaus Beschorner mentioned, nobody bid on his mint sealed copy high enough to make the original selling price. There is a copy if you want it. But I noted in your e-mail to Peter Stoeferle that you never wanted to see a copy. What a hypocrite. Happy compiling at your end. CHEERS...Matt Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5308 Re: patience Andrew J. Rozsa Tue 6/24/1997 6 KB 5451 Re: patience PhilPDX@a... Sat 6/28/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 5:45 pm Subject: Re: Ricochet source Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > Going through the manuscript for my book, I found that there were only > about 50 shows that Ricochet could have been taken from. At an average > of 100 min. per show (a conservative estimate) that only allows 83 hours > of stuff from which to draw Ricochet. Where'd they get 400? Assuming > they meant 400 hours of LIVE material. . . Where did this 400 hour figure come from, Scott? I always thought that it was about 40 hours of material that they used for Ricochet. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 6:04 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' Okay, So the authors of VitD have not given permission to reproduce their publication in CD-ROM or on-line format. But I don't thenk that necessarily negates what Steve was asking about in the first instance (if I recall his sentiments correctly). Weren't you just looking for the same concerted effort that Peter and Klaus were suggesting, Steve? And that could still occur, with or without the assistance of the VitD authors. As Peter says, the information published in the book is in the public domain, so if we wish to help create Morgan's Extremely Detailed Discography then we can do so independantly of the new issue of VitD. As Klaus pointed out, there does appear to be some interest in an on-line definitive discography, so there is a 'gap in the market' which we may be able to fill, particularly if VitD decide to stick to paper format exclusively. Has this little exchange blown the wind out of Steve and Morgan's sails, or do they still wish to purseu their aims? As before, I would be willing to provide whatever help I could, on any project, as would a number of other list participants I would guess. --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 10:47 am Subject: D:Solo - Week 2 Really-From: Vic Rek This week of June 23, 1997 we would like to hear comments on: Peter Baumann - Trans Harmonic Nights ------------------------------------- Please make subject title 'D:Trans Harmonic Nights' when commenting. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 8:52 pm Subject: Rehi and Re: Oedipus Tyrannos Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' Hi folks, I'm back in Netland again after a gap of over a week. Felt like I had lost a limb ! However, if anyone wants to e-mail me, please use my new address:- middletong@m... On to TD things... Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > Do you know which part of 'Encore' it is that they took from Oedipus? The middle section of Desert Dream is a direct 'drop-in' from OT. I don't have Encore with me at the moment, but I could work out the exact times tonight if anyone is interested. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5279 Re: Rehi and Re: Oedipus Tyrannos Mark Filipak Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 1:16 pm Subject: Upcoming discographies... Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' This is just a suggestion: Could the current copyright owner of the TD material listed in those very detailed discography be included, so that we know who to write to when we need some work issued or re-issued? Just a thought... C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: I Thought I *Did* Bid the Original Selling Price on VitD! Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: patience >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:55:40 +0000 >Really-From: Mathew Hargreaves > >The old edition of 'Voices' is a starting point for any collector wanting >information through 1990. As Klaus Beschorner mentioned, nobody bid on his >mint sealed copy high enough to make the original selling price. [. . .] a '*Nobody*'?!? I bid $30 for it. If I remember correctly, that was the original published price for the softcover edition. As you might recall, I pre-ordered a hardcover copy before any of them--hard or soft-- were actually printed and bound. I seem to recollect that it was $50 for the hard and $30 for the soft. But then, I recently told people that I thought there there were 50 hardcovers and 500 soft, which turns out to have been incorrect. So, tell Klaus that I didn't mean to insult him if indeed my bid of $30 was below the 'original published price.' Such was not my intent. I meant to bid only for the original price in the odd event that everyone else was too intimidated to bid for such an item from such a high-profile fan as Klaus. As it turns out, my psychological assumptions about this auction were correct: I won the bids on the Chi Coltrane and Alexander Square items not because I bid high, but because I bid at all! -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 1:12 pm Subject: Re: Rehi and Re: Oedipus Tyrannos Really-From: Mark Filipak > Really-From: 'Grant Middleton' > > Hi folks, > > I'm back in Netland again after a gap of over a week. Felt like I had > lost a limb ! However, if anyone wants to e-mail me, please use my > new address:- > > middletong@m... > > On to TD things... > > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur > > > Do you know which part of 'Encore' it is that they took from Oedipus? > > The middle section of Desert Dream is a direct 'drop-in' from OT. > I don't have Encore with me at the moment, but I could work out the > exact times tonight if anyone is interested. Welcome back Grant. I missed you so. Yes, I'm interested in the index times for the section lifted from 'Oedipus Tyrannus.' Thanks. -- Mark (Grant who?) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 1:16 pm Subject: Oedipus Tyrannus Really-From: Mark Filipak Speaking of Oedipus Tyrannus, the overture was on 'V' but what about the rest of the music for the stage play? Anybody know anything about it? Was any of the rest of it by TD? If so, does it survive on any sort of media? Ciao -- Mark (question authorities) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5287 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Francisco Salgado C. Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5303 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus TangerineC@a... Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB 5306 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Mark Filipak Tue 6/24/1997 3 KB 5325 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Marcel Engels Tue 6/24/1997 2 KB 13941 Oedipus Tyrannus Mark Fonda Tue 5/26/1998 3 KB 13947 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Hilmar Kraft Tue 5/26/1998 4 KB 13951 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Plumer, Scott Tue 5/26/1998 3 KB 13953 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Vic Rek Tue 5/26/1998 3 KB 13978 Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Mark Fonda Thu 5/28/1998 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 1:44 pm Subject: RE: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >I'm sure I've seen somewhere in print Edgar admitting that the reason >for the second 1977 NA tour being cancelled was *not* because of 'an >equestrian accident'. IIRC he stated that he 'could hardly even ride'. Call me a skeptci, but why concoct a story to cover up the real reason? What did they stand to gain from it? >He went on to say that it was because Emerson, Lake and Palmer split up >at that time. Consequently, ELP's US concerts were cancelled, and the >promoters went bust. TD were caught in the fallout from this. Don't believe that. 1977 was ELP's biggest year: they toured and sold out stadiums, and they didn't break up until 1980. Plus, they may have been under contract to perform those shows, so if they did break up, they'd have to wait until the end of the tour or face massive lawsuits. Plus, they'd have earned a lot of money playing those shows, so they'd have been fools to break up. They were beginning to separate (look at Works Vol. 1) but they were still a band until 1980. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: Planned VOICES UPDATE? Whoops. Really-From: Steven Feldman >RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 11:04:01 GB-EIRE >Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > >So the authors of VitD have not given permission to reproduce their >publication in CD-ROM or on-line format. > >But I don't think that necessarily negates what Steve was asking about >in the first instance (if I recall his sentiments correctly). Weren't >you just looking for the same concerted effort that Peter and Klaus >were suggesting, Steve? [. . .] I was indeed hinting at the idea of a coordinated effort for all the hardworking TD discographers on this list to pool their resources in the cause to produce the best possible discography, but -- and this is a real big 'but' (which makes me feel like a butt) -- I thought that there was no update of VOICES IN THE DUNES planned! For some reason, I thought that there wasn't really any update(s) to the book underway. Guess I was wrong. Sorry. >[. . .] And that could still occur, with or without the assistance of >the VitD authors. True, but under the circumstances, that would be ticklishly close to copyright violation, and I'm not so interested in the project as to invite that sort of trouble. Call me a wimp. Call me respectful. Call me ethical. Call me a nice guy. I'm a fan. That's all. >Has this little exchange blown the wind out of Steve and >Morgan's sails, or do they still wish to purseu their aims? Well, it's taken the wind out of *this* windbag. I'll continue along with my li'l ol' TD POCKET DISCOGRAPHY, though, for two reasons: o it functions as my own personal collecting checklist/guide o it's a handy one-sheet thing to hand to used record store owners o it mentions the original packaging of the albums--unlike most guides I hope that my pocket discography isn't stepping on anyone's toes. In closing, I believe there is a way for online TD fans to have their cake and eat it, too. If everyone here outside of Matt, Peter, and Klaus would like to pool their efforts while AVOIDING ANY DIRECT INFLUENCE AND/OR COPYING FROM VOICES IN THE DUNES, I would be willing to contribute to such an effort, but I am skeptical about whether or not such a thing would be possible. For example, I don't think the New Testament could have been written without the aid of the Old. -- Steven Feldman and Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5285 Re: Planned VOICES UPDATE? Whoops. Craig R. J. Cordrey Mon 6/23/1997 4 KB 5288 Re: Planned VOICES UPDATE? Whoops. David Datta Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB 5290 Re: Planned VOICES UPDATE? Whoops. David Datta Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 2:11 pm Subject: Kiew Mission - Polish Postcard Really-From: Vic Rek POLISH POSTCARD UPDATE: Kiew Mission (from 'Exit') - Postcard size, non-standard single (cannot play on most standard turntables) Red stamp with black handwriting on backside Postcard has picture of three small dogs with the middle one yawning Made in Poland? (questionable - probably Germany) 33 rpm, poor sound quality, issue date unknown From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: LEGEND soundtrack by Gerry Goldsmith: Two Pressings(?) Really-From: Steven Feldman Hi All, I just wanted you to know that the copy of UK LEGEND CD I got via snail-mail from someone on this list is different from the one I just got at an area used record store. The difference is the printing on the CD itself. The copy that I got by mail was white, with a reproduction of a woodcut of a unicorn in black (as well as the title of the CD and some credits). The one I got at my area store was dark pink with black writing, but with no woodcut of any horned beast. Now ya know. -- Steven Feldman and From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 10:26 pm Subject: Re: Planned VOICES UPDATE? Whoops. Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' > Really-From: Steven Feldman > > True, but under the circumstances, that would be ticklishly close > to copyright violation, and I'm not so interested in the project as to > invite that sort of trouble. Call me a wimp. Call me respectful. Call > me ethical. Call me a nice guy. I'm a fan. That's all. I have never seen (and therefore never read) Voices in the Dunes. However, as Peter himself admitted, the details of each release must be in the public domain - only the presentation style (perhaps) and any commentary (definitely) could be subject to copyright. (I believe, but I guess if anyone knows different then they'll say so!) > I hope that my pocket discography isn't stepping on anyone's toes. > In closing, I believe there is a way for online TD fans to have > their cake and eat it, too. If everyone here outside of Matt, Peter, > and Klaus would like to pool their efforts while AVOIDING ANY DIRECT > INFLUENCE AND/OR COPYING FROM VOICES IN THE DUNES, I would be willing > to contribute to such an effort, but I am skeptical about whether or > not such a thing would be possible. For example, I don't think the > New Testament could have been written without the aid of the Old. I have again read neither the Old nor New Testament (a terrible thing to admit too?), and so cannot comment on the analogy. I think there is a positive need for an on-line 'Disgustingly Detailed Discography of Tangerine Dream' (Morgan?) and, if VitD will not or can not provide this then I can't see where the problem is with us trying to do this ourselves. I don't know what VitD provides for each album entry, but to my mind something akin to Mark Filipak's entries seems pretty good to start with. Being a bit more 'anal' than Mark, I'd also like to see details of who played on it, what guests appeared (if any), what instruments were used, composers, producers and engineers for each track, as I am currently entereing for my personal Music Database. Are we going to provide TD, one of the most technologically advanced groups ever, with a technologically appropriate discography, or wait another 5 years for VitD mark 3 to appear? (That's not a sleight on Peter, Mathew or ?, but a recognition of how much time and effort must be allocated to the task.) --------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey - Senior Software Engineer GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems Simulation and Training Division (Donibristle) mailto : cordrey@m... --------------------------------------------- From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 2:44 pm Subject: Re: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault' On Jun 23, 9:44am, tadream mailing list wrote: > Subject: RE: Second 1977 US Tour Cancellation > Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > > (...) > > Don't believe that. 1977 was ELP's biggest year: they toured and sold > out stadiums, and they didn't break up until 1980. Plus, they may have > been under contract to perform those shows, so if they did break up, > they'd have to wait until the end of the tour or face massive lawsuits. > Plus, they'd have earned a lot of money playing those shows, so they'd Not so, sorry. Press at that time quoted ELP as saying they did not expect to make any money during that tour, owing to the fact that they had all that equipment and this full fledged orchestra touring with them. Interestingly, that orchestra was participating in about 1/2 of the songs, being quiet when Keith Emerson was toying with his infamous organ (the one he tossed around, and inserted metal blades under the keys to short them out) for instance. Nevertheless, that was quite a show back then. > have been fools to break up. They were beginning to separate (look at > Works Vol. 1) but they were still a band until 1980. > > Scott >-- End of excerpt from tadream mailing list C.B. Vincent Goudreault online since early 93, TD fan since 77 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 3:02 pm Subject: Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.' tadream mailing list wrote: > > Really-From: Mark Filipak > > Speaking of Oedipus Tyrannus, the overture was on 'V' but what about the > rest of the music for the stage play? Anybody know anything about it? > Was any of the rest of it by TD? If so, does it survive on any sort of > media? Ciao -- Mark (question authorities) There was a BBC broadcast on 22 august, 1974 ( apparently)direct from chichester festival theater, 23 min long. It'a very noisy but with denoising tools I've got 23 minutes of dreaming, abstract, ethereal music. Overture, from V is the and last third movement. ( Note: I got the original thanks to the kindness of John Burek) ---Francisco From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 4:16 pm Subject: Re: Planned VOICES UPDATE? Whoops. Really-From: David Datta In article <5om2ad$l3t$1@n...> you wrote: : Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' : : I think there is a positive need for an on-line : 'Disgustingly Detailed Discography of Tangerine Dream' : (Morgan?) and, if VitD will not or can not provide this : then I can't see where the problem is with us trying to do : this ourselves. If this is all you need, then grab the one in the music archives: mirrors.aol.com/pub/music/artists/t/tangerine.dream/discog I'll mail it to anyone who want's one. The last update was from January 96. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 9:51 pm Subject: Penguin Reference Really-From: Dennis Nigbur In the middle of exam session, I decided to buy a 'Penguin Dictionary of Psychology' to help me with revision, and what do you reckon I spotted in the bottom right hand corner of the title page...'PENGUIN REFERENCE', in bold type. Obvious, but why hasn't it ever occurred to me before? Could it be that all the Rockoon song titles are in some way inspired by odd details of everyday life, just like this one? Dennis From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 4:16 pm Subject: Re: Planned VOICES UPDATE? Whoops. Really-From: David Datta In article <5om2ad$l3t$1@n...> you wrote: : Really-From: 'Craig R. J. Cordrey' : : I think there is a positive need for an on-line : 'Disgustingly Detailed Discography of Tangerine Dream' : (Morgan?) and, if VitD will not or can not provide this : then I can't see where the problem is with us trying to do : this ourselves. If this is all you need, then grab the one in the music archives: mirrors.aol.com/pub/music/artists/t/tangerine.dream/discog I'll mail it to anyone who want's one. The last update was from January 96. From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 4:54 pm Subject: D:Transh. Nights Really-From: 'Marcel Engels' Ah, this is a good album. Only 37.48, it's more then Romance. I find this album better then Romance '76. Although also in this album are a few silly and simple tunes. 1. This This Day 4AS (Powerful opener, this day will fade away?) 2. White Bench... 3AS (great sounds but tune could be better) 3. Chasing the Dream 5AS (Superb Track!!! Play it LOUD) 4. Biking up the Strand 2AS (Vocoders are nice, silly tune) 5. Phaseday 2AS (supersilly tune, starts better from the middle) 6. Merdian Moorland 5AS (Track 6 and 7 belong to each other and 7. The Third Site 5AS (are IMHO the best tracks) 8. Dance at Dawn 3AS (gives me an American hero-movie feeling, gets better later) I don't know what the results are, but I give it a 4AS anyway. TD-fan? then you must get these 2 CDs (Romance/Transh.). Marcel Music-page :http://www.pi.net/~m1engels/fsp.htm Email :fsp@p... From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 5:32 pm Subject: Re: Is it TD or is it Memorex? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > I have seen other music groups live. Some that can play 'studio >tracks' note for note on stage. The Pat Metheny Group and some other jazz >oriented people can play 'note for note', I've heard them do it. But 'Note >for note' is not enough to call it identical to the recorded track. There is >tempo, rhythm, interaction, dynamics, speed, audience feel, and probably >dozens on other elements which make a performance 'sing' and rise above and >beyond the reproduction of a 'canned' track. Performers can 'milk' the >audience, and a good audience can 'milk' the best efforts out of a performer >or group of performers. All true, but on some TD tapes I've heard, they reproduce the album tracks so perfectly, it sounds as if they're playing the album iteself. It's not TD's fault, really, but more the fault of the instruments. I'd just prefer that they played unique music live, like on the '77 tour. The stuff they played was similar from show to show, but there was really nothing from any existing albums that they played live. That's the ideal situation for me. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 5:58 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >I assure you, he hasn't. But maybe you have a long way to go to understand >the effort needed to really get something like they project issued. Feel >free to try, anyway. We've all started your way ;-) You're absolutely right, Klaus. I've toiled for 6 months on my book, which is essentially taking a stack of paper a foot (30 cm) high and making it a stack 1 inch (2.5 cm) high. Have some empathy for them, or if you don't like it, write your own book. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 6:10 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >I stand by my statement. He may be a great fan and a true lover of >TD, but he does not understand how I/we feel, otherwise he would >either let the gentlemen working assiduously on their books do >their work (and help them) or produce something on his own. NOW! He helped me considerably (Danke Peter!), and, speaking as a fan, I would want something right away too, but, speaking as an author, I wouldn't want to put out some half-arsed effort just to satisfy some fans. My book would have been out months ago, except that I wanted to make sure the details were right, and I wanted to wait for the Tournado dust to settle before I went to the printer's. The LAST thing an author, or any creator, wants to do is put out something he or she feels is not the best it could be, just to 'get something out there.' Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5304 Re: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Andrew J. Rozsa Tue 6/24/1997 3 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 6:01 pm Subject: RE: VOICES IN THE DUNES: Online/CD-ROM?!? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >Think it over. Issue an electronic version YOURSELF. As a courtesy to >the people who can't buy the book because it's out of print, and as >promotion for the coming new release. Yes, rather than just copying the existing work, improve on it! Make it an interactive deal, with sound and video and everything else. Heck, maybe TD will want to make it an official TD item. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 6:27 pm Subject: Re: Ricochet source Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' >> Going through the manuscript for my book, I found that there were only >> about 50 shows that Ricochet could have been taken from. At an average >> of 100 min. per show (a conservative estimate) that only allows 83 hours >> of stuff from which to draw Ricochet. Where'd they get 400? Assuming >> they meant 400 hours of LIVE material. . . >Where did this 400 hour figure come from, Scott? I >always thought that it was about 40 hours of material that >they used for Ricochet. I dunno, I think someone mentioned it on the list. Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 7:13 pm Subject: [Fwd: Allez... hopen dat het wat helpt :-)] Really-From: Ricky Danny De Bie wrote: > > Hawaiian GOOD LUCK TOTEM > \\\|||/// > ========= > - | O O | > / \ \ @'/ > # _| |_ > (#) ( ) > #\//|* *|\\ > #\/( * )/ > # ===== > # (\|/) > # || || > .#.--'| |---. > #'---' ----' > > This totem has been sent to you for good luck. It has been sent > around the world nine times so far. You will receive good luck > within four days of relaying this totem. > > Send copies to people you think need good luck. Don't send money as > fate has no price. Do not keep this message. > > The totem must leave your hands in 96 hours. Send ten copies and see > what happens in four days. You will get a surprise. This is true, even > if you are not superstitious. > > Good luck, but please remember: 10 copies of this message must leave > your hands in 96 hours... You must not sign on message... > > Met vriendelijke groet, > Danny De Bie > Systeembeheerder * IT-department > Dockx NV Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5298 [Fwd: Allez... hopen dat het wat helpt :-)] Ricky Mon 6/23/1997 3 KB 5300 Re: [Fwd: Allez... hopen dat het wat helpt :-)] Plumer, Scott Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 7:13 pm Subject: [Fwd: Allez... hopen dat het wat helpt :-)] Really-From: Ricky Danny De Bie wrote: > > Hawaiian GOOD LUCK TOTEM > \\\|||/// > ========= > - | O O | > / \ \ @'/ > # _| |_ > (#) ( ) > #\//|* *|\\ > #\/( * )/ > # ===== > # (\|/) > # || || > .#.--'| |---. > #'---' ----' > > This totem has been sent to you for good luck. It has been sent > around the world nine times so far. You will receive good luck > within four days of relaying this totem. > > Send copies to people you think need good luck. Don't send money as > fate has no price. Do not keep this message. > > The totem must leave your hands in 96 hours. Send ten copies and see > what happens in four days. You will get a surprise. This is true, even > if you are not superstitious. > > Good luck, but please remember: 10 copies of this message must leave > your hands in 96 hours... You must not sign on message... > > Met vriendelijke groet, > Danny De Bie > Systeembeheerder * IT-department > Dockx NV From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59 am Subject: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Really-From: 'Roger Smith' So, Everyone: Perhaps I missed a factoid somewhere in the TD saga that we all follow: If the name Tangerine Dream was, in fact, not derived from the Beatles song 'Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds,' where did it come from? A coincidence? Independent invention? Does it matter? I guess I'd just like to know. Roger Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 5301 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Plumer, Scott Mon 6/23/1997 2 KB 5312 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Grant Middleton Tue 6/24/1997 3 KB 5314 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Mark Filipak Tue 6/24/1997 4 KB 5315 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Grant Middleton Tue 6/24/1997 3 KB 5316 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Craig R. J. Cordrey Tue 6/24/1997 3 KB 5332 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? TangerineC@a... Tue 6/24/1997 2 KB 5335 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Dennis Nigbur Tue 6/24/1997 2 KB 5366 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? TangerineC@a... Wed 6/25/1997 2 KB 5388 Re: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Mark Filipak Thu 6/26/1997 2 KB From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 8:20 pm Subject: RE: [Fwd: Allez... hopen dat het wat helpt :-)] Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' > This totem has been sent to you for good luck. It has been sent G-d I hate this garbage. Don't they know it's bad luck to be superstitious? Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 8:26 pm Subject: RE: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott' If I'm posting too much today, just tell me to shut up. :-) > If the name Tangerine Dream was, in fact, not derived from the Beatles > song 'Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds,' where did it come from? Ed & Co. say it's _not_ from LitSwD, since the line is actually 'tangerine trees.' It could be that Ed heard it as 'dream' and decided to use it for his band name. When did Sgt. Pepper come out? TD was founded in Sept. '67, and I wonder if Sgt. Pepper might have come out after, thus lending credence to his claim. Maybe he didn't want to look stupid by mis-hearing the line in the song. I think the official line is that it's an anagram. For what? Scott From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 3:59 am Subject: '. . . DREAMland . . . the grass turns TAMGERINE . . .' Really-From: Steven Feldman >Subject: cognomen 'Tangerine Dream'? >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 97 15:25:17 -0500 >From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) >Really-From: 'Roger Smith' > >If the name Tangerine Dream was, in fact, not derived from the Beatles >song 'Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds,' where did it come from? As far as *I'm* concerned, Roger, it comes from the The Ones' song, 'Lady Greengrass.' I said that I'd transcribe the lyrics to this list, but I haven't do so, yet. Sorry about that. Still, here's a re-post of Lars Jones' original unveiling of the lyrics in question: -- Steven Feldman and + + + + + + + Subject: lady greengrass/love of mine Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:30:06 -0400 From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Really-From: 'Lars R. Jones' <105411.3107@c...> dreamers I recently got the CD 'The Star-Club Singles Complete, Vol. 12 that contains The One's 'Lady Greengrass'/'Love of Mine' (The Hamburg Sound 842 544-2) -- I've been dying to hear these for so long!!! Like, wow, this is cool daddy-O! I can dig it! I **highly recommend** this for all hard core TD fans! |-) BTW for those of you who didn't know, it is nothing like any other TD except for a couple of twangy beatnik guitar chords in 'Love of Mine' that remind me of EM etc. -- Edgar was the guitarist for this group but only gets composition credit on 'Love of Mine.' I would definitely buy the vinyl of this if I ever had the chance! On the front there is a small reproduction of the single's cover on which it says prominently in 60s lettering: 'Music for Hippies' The first track might be called a 'be-in' (eg: 'stone-in') the second might be called a 'love-in' (eg 'sex-in') 'Lady Greengrass' is definitely about pyschodelia and may give some clue as to the origin of TD's name (despite the fact that we have recently heard that 'Tangerine Dream' was also the name of an album--what remains to be determined is *why* and *how* the band's name came about and what sort of meaning it has) take, for example, these essential lyrics that open the song: She lifts her dress and floats to dreamland-- {!!!!! -- Steve} makes love to the sky. She let's her hair hang down as the weeds go 'round Lady Greengrass. Puff, the grass turns tangerine [in verse 2 it's '... the trees turn tangerine'] {!!!!! -- Steve} Puff, the sky is suddenly green; her eyes reveal her state of mind; she's beginning to fly. -- the whole song is about getting stoned/tripping and there are some definite connections with the Beatles 'Lucy in the Sky' ('tangerine trees' in particular) both in structure and wording; one can see where 'tangerine dream' might have come from since 'tangerine' and 'green' are the only colors that are mentioned and the song is framed by floating 'to dreamland'... Lady Greengrass is, of course, partly a personification of the 'demon' weed (although I think she was at the A'dam concert too...) hell, they even use the word 'groovy' |-) I haven't heard that in Ages! 'Love of Mine' is more of the beatnik groove scene daddy-o--dig it? there's even a raunchy sax!!! do-do-dooby-do-wat and it leaves me wondering whether I should light up or get down... take these 'essential' lyrics: [sax] do-do-dooby-do-wat [sax] do-do-dooby-do-wat Your skirt's so short that your thighs are showing (sax: do-do-dooby-do-wat) you move so fine it gets me going (sax: do-do-dooby-do-wat ) that mole on your butt makes me lose my mind [*at least that what it sounds like he is saying!*] you're everything baby, you're so divine. (without the music, it reads like conservative rap, doesn't it?) Well, those two themes, dope and sex, sum up the 60s--what else can one say about the 60s? (flame time!) I'd give these a 4as but I'm not sure why, maybe cause I can dig them! Lars (daddy cool) From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list) Date: Mon Jun 23, 1997 8:33 pm Subject: Re: Oedipus Tyrannus Really-From: TangerineC@a... In a message dated 97-06-23 16:08:39 EDT, you write: >Speaking of Oedipus Tyrannus, the overture was on 'V' but what about the >> rest of the music for the stage play? What is 'V'????