From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 11:56
am
Subject: Subject: Eurock!
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Really-From: Mark Fonda
Archie Patterson wrote (via Ashok Prema):
> Eurock is my only job for the last 15+ years, promoting this music is both a
passion and job for me for 25 years now. I get much support form customers and
artists, and only occasionally does someone call me names. You can't please
everybody. Enough on this before I do quit the business...
> Archie
I was surprised to see the original complaints about Eurock since I have
had nothing but good experiences on several orders I have placed. In
fact I just received an order that required special handling by Archie
in order to get it to me here in Aruba and it went perfectly. I don't
see that his shipping charges are out of line at all and he has been
very reasonable with me. He has some items that are not readily
available elsewhere and his prices are ok. Archie, I'm sure you're not
going to let one or two disgruntled and misguided customers discourage
you... keep up the good work!!
Now Progtron and Laser's Edge are another story.... :-(
I'd also love to see SuperCollector start an EM Mail Order business!!
I'd be a regular. :-P
Regards,
Mark
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 1:12
pm
Subject: Re: Kraftwerk Tour
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Really-From: TWeibre361
In a message dated 98-03-14 01:45:59 EST, you write:
<< just wanna say hi to all of u as i just joined the list...
sriser3600 could you be more specific as to where excactly did u see those
dates?
i myself saw them for the very first time on Doepfer site but they were
removed
from there on the next day!
later i emailed Doepfer and they told me that KW changed their minds as to
posting
the dates and demanded that they be removed!
ciao! >>
probably the kw list...its been in an orgasmic state since those dates were
officially announced....'wheelchairs on the autobahn' 98 world tour....
tom w
np: aphew twin - saw 1
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 4:09
am
Subject: Re: 'Coldwater Canyon'
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Really-From: 'Greg Heil'
> Really-From: AOutland
>
>
> In a message dated 98-03-12 16:51:32 EST, you write:
>
> <<
> I've been listening to this track fro the past 3 months
> and have become not even a bit tired of it!
> In fact, right now, it's on repeat for the past 2 1/2
> hours and I have not tired of it at all! >>
> I will usually record a favorite track at the beginning of a tape so
that
> I can instantly push the return button to play it over again in my car. I
did
> this so much to this track that I wore the tape out without hardly
hearing the
> rest of it. Dell
Thanks!
I don't feel so alone anymore. I think this is one track with an
incredible amount of staying power. I just seems very fresh--I
guess that's why I like it so much.
Greg H.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 11:51
am
Subject: D:List, Addendum Week 5 - 15th March 1998
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Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
This week we would like to hear your comments about Ambient Monkeys.
Please make the subject header D:Ambient Monkeys when replying.
Thanks
Lawry.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 3:38
pm
Subject: Eurock etc
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Really-From: 'ashok prema'
You wrote:
Now, I have to complained about this, being in the business of mail
order CD's to a MUCH larger degree than Archie. I would say Ash owes
Steven an apology. I mean, how obvious to Arch it was Steve that wrote
the letter...even after you took his name out...and to send Arch the
flame without asking Steve was, IMO, uncalled for & uncool. I certainly
wouldn't want my mail forwarded to a business I complain about unless
I'm the one sending it to them myself. Not critisizing you Ash, but it
might be better, as a courtesy, to ask before forwarding something
volatile like that without asking the author. JMO, of course.
Regards,
Dan
I disagree Dan.
I am self employed and if a customer has a complaint - I want to hear about
it - otherwise how can I improve my service to them??
The point of telling Archie was that there WAS some dissent amongst his
customers that he may not be aware of - and as his mane was being dragged
around in mud by more than one person, it was only fair to give him his
say.......my mail excluded the name of the complainant - it certainly would
have been unfair of me to give the writers name - put yourself in Archies
shoes - people are slanging around his name saying (mostly) that his
service is poor/expensive - if he doesn't know of these complaints - how
can he correct them??
It would be great if you set up as a trader - I would be more than happy to
supply all Champagne lake titles to you.........who knows - one of your
customers may be showing signs of dissatisfaction one day......would YOU
not want to know about it??
Cheers and good luck with your venture!
Ash
Replies
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Re: Eurock etc
DJS
Sat
3/14/1998
5 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 4:05
pm
Subject: Re: 'Coldwater Canyon'
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Really-From: 'Marcel Engels'
>Really-From: 'Greg Heil'
>
>Thanks!
>I don't feel so alone anymore. I think this is one track with an
>incredible amount of staying power. I just seems very fresh--I
>guess that's why I like it so much.
Well, I think the majority of people on this list like Coldwater
Canyon. It's one (top 3) of my fav. track of the dream.
So you're definitely not alone!
Marcel
Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels
Email :fsp@w...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 3:14
pm
Subject: Re: Which Muscians have you met?
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Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.'
I thought I haven't met any artists/musicians but I was wrong.
I met Stellar, an australian artist that uses his body signals as inputs
to analog synthesizers.
It was 6 years ago. He was to perform in Madrid ( cultural capital of
Europe for 1992). He came to my company looking for a monitoring
equipment. At that time I was the product specialist for intensive care
monitoring so i lend him an 8 chenille monitor with analog outs with
EKG, respiration, Oxygen saturation and non invasive pressure.
He was supposed to perform totally naked, with electrodes and cables of
all sorts plugged to his body controlling lights, a robotic arm, and
analog synthesizers that were feed by the analog out waveform of 'my'
monitor.
I had to teach him how to use it since I couldn't go to that performance
since i had an unavoidable trip to germany.
Years later I saw an extensive TV program about him.( in a german
satellite TV station) I saw him do very surprising acts such as hanging
completely naked 2- 3 meter above the floor with a dozen of hooks
piercing his body and supported by wires. He was controlling a
mechanical machine that moved him back and forth.
I saw also the act of controlling the robotic arm just by imperceptible
tinny muscle movements and totally surrounded by mechanical
paraphernalia and electrodes controlling lights and sounds.
If you happen to hear about a performance of that artist nearby don't
hesitate and go. It's a very unconventional and estrange way of art.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 5:10
pm
Subject: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.'
Hi again
This is a bit out of topic for tadream but not too much.
Well I went last night to the Kitaro concert and I wanted to comment
the show.
First of all I didn't tape it. I had to made a choice. The concert hall
didn't allow taping or 'videoing' the show. Really they don't put a lot
of effort to control this, but my wife asked me not to do itbecause she
will get very nervous so I didn't. Then I showed her some 3 persons near
us taping and doing videos (just in case TD comes here).
Technically the show was from excellent - to fantastic. The sound
equipment was superb. He had 3 speaker boxes on each side on the floor
and 6 boxes on each side hanging from the ceiling together with another
6 more speakers in the center ( also hanging). This gave a fantastic 3D
sound so even I was very close to the right speaker i could perceive the
stereo- 3D effect quite balanced. As for sound quality it was excellent
as well. Not too loud, very good EQ settings without the excess of bass
Christian Von Toerne pointed out with TD latest concert in Bonn. So 5
stars to David Morgan, Kitaro's sound engineer and Stephen Tang the
sound technician.
There were six musicians, 3 males( Kitaro, keyboard and unconventional
instruments, Angus Clark, guitars and Derek Zimmermann percussion) and 3
females (Keiko Takahashi, Fumine Ono and Dianna Dentino Keyboards)
Talking about live and canned music. I tried to see how much they faked
and how much it was live. Apart for the noises and effects that were
controlled by a guy very near to the right speakers the rest was live.
The percussion was very complete and very good (People gave a big hurrah
When Kitaro presented Derek Zimmermann at the end of the show)
Kitaro played an array of 4 keyboards controlling his characteristic
sounds the rest of the keyboradists played live as well as far as i
could perceive. Of course guitars were live too.
That way of performing lead to a certain kind of music, very different
from the sequencer-type TD used and uses.
The show was a mix of soft and hard compositions. Magma, the opening
piece began with 2 minutes of noise effects and very soft lights (
almost dark) artist entered the stage finally kitaro came.
He played 11 themes in 90 minutes mostly taken from his latest album
'Cirque Ingenieux'. He played only one encore, even when people asked
for another one.
Artistically the show left me as cold as ice. I asked my wife and she
told me it was the coldest performance she ever attended. latest time
before Kitaro, we went to see Hedningarna, a swedish group. Well people
were dancing and doing noises all the time excited by the frantic
rhythms
and tunes. It was so hot the group had to do 6 encores!. O.K. Kitaro's
music is not that king of music but try to catch my point.
Even, there were some interesting parts such as when Kitaro played what
he call Beam and Sandoor. Beam is as far as I saw a squared box with an
antenna. As he approached his hand to that antenna pith of sound was
higher in a continuous way. He combined Beam with Sandoor, a long
corded structure.
But his music uses the same recipe all the time with such stupidly
simple tunes using the too much conventional major and minor modes. The
better parts were the noises and effects.
Even the Taiko drumming is not so great. It makes a big noise but it's
just this, a noise. From the rhythmic point of view Kitaro is a big
null( IMHO).
One last comment/question mark. The leaflet of the Spanish-portugeese
tour( He did an extensive tour: Madrid, Leon, Barcelona, Zaragoza,
Murcia, Granada, Lisboa, Porto, Salamanca, Santander, Coruņa and Bilbao
(to be performed today)) it's mentioned ' During a trip to London he
met Klaus Schulze, the innovative german musician, leader of the
pioneers of the electronic genre, Tangerine Dream, discovering the
versatility of synthesizer and blah, blah blah...
Well, did he really met Edgar and he he is wrong about the name or he
met Klaus and he is wrong about the leadership of Klaus whthin TD ?
regards
---francisco
Replies
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Yahoo! ID
Date
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12012
Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
Paul Nagle
Sat
3/14/1998
3 KB
12016
'Beam'
Brian E. Kirby
Sat
3/14/1998
3 KB
12020
Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
DJS
Sun
3/15/1998
4 KB
12022
Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
Paul Nagle
Sun
3/15/1998
3 KB
12023
Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
Paul Nagle
Sun
3/15/1998
3 KB
12024
Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
SRiser3600
Sun
3/15/1998
2 KB
12026
Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
Francisco Salgado C.
Sun
3/15/1998
4 KB
12028
Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
Paul Nagle
Sun
3/15/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 6:39
pm
Subject: Re: Eurock etc
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Really-From: DJS
> I disagree Dan.
> I am self employed and if a customer has a complaint - I want to hear about
> it - otherwise how can I improve my service to them??
> The point of telling Archie was that there WAS some dissent amongst his
> customers that he may not be aware of - and as his mane was being dragged
> around in mud by more than one person, it was only fair to give him his
> say.......my mail excluded the name of the complainant - it certainly would
> have been unfair of me to give the writers name - put yourself in Archies
> shoes - people are slanging around his name saying (mostly) that his
> service is poor/expensive - if he doesn't know of these complaints - how
> can he correct them??
> It would be great if you set up as a trader - I would be more than happy to
> supply all Champagne lake titles to you.........who knows - one of your
> customers may be showing signs of dissatisfaction one day......would YOU
> not want to know about it??
>
> Cheers and good luck with your venture!
>
> Ash
I don't disagree that you forwarded the mail...I just think you should
have asked Steve if he minded. Of course I'd want to know if any
customers of mine were disatisfied, but I'd prefer to hear from the
customer himself. If the customer rants to others without telling me
about, I couldn't care less about what the customer has to say. The
simple fact is, the customer is NOT always right anyway. Of course now
I'm wading away from the topic. I just feel that it was quite obvious
that it was Steve who wrote the letter, so in effect you were actually
telling Archie it was Steve whether or not you posted the name.
Regarding Archie's shoes, heh, I am in his shoes technically but on a
much larger scale. We get dozens of mail order calls everyday and deal
with unreasonable (sometimes just plain retarded) customers. In any case
if there's always been a prob that's our fault I've corrected it and
made the customer happy one way or another (no Fixx jokes please).
Archie just seems to not give a flying %^$# if his customers are happy
or not. Of course, I only let him mess up my order once, then moved onto
another mail order outlet so perhaps he's doing better with his
customers. In any case, my whole involvement with this discussion was to
just acknowledge the courtesy of letting a guy know when you're
forwarding his mail..that's all. Please, everyone, don't let my words
discourage you from ordering from Eurock. I had a bad experience... but
that doesn't mean you will. Thanks again for the offer Ash..I'll be
contacting you for a catalog of titles ;-)
Regards,
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle EUROCK/Archie Patterson , Dano
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:44:42 -0800
>Subject: Re: Eurock!
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: DJS
>
>> Really-From: 'ashok prema'
>>
>>As [...] Eurock/Archie Pattterson stocks Champagne Lake releases, I was
>>interested in S. Feldman's complaints and copied it to Archie.....
>>omitting SF's name ............his reply is interesting [...]
>>
>>|Ashok, [...]
>>|I know who this guy is - Steven Feldman. He bought 2 Bargain Bin CDs
>>|(all items in the BB were 1 copy only items, offered at a special low
>>|price). He sent me about 10 emails asking questions and trying to
>>|get me to drop my prices, etc.
Clarification: I tried--rather unsuccessfully--to get him to lower
his postage, handling, and insurance charges--not the prices of his
products.
I e-mailed him many times, because he--like many people on the net--
is rather bad at expressing himself succinctly enough to remove the
possibility of misinterpretation.
>>|I am very surprised at the nasty tone of what he writes. He seemed a
>>|bit of a pain [...]
Most people tend to think so. I am thorough, dogged and determined
when I encounter resistance and/or vagueness.
>>|[...] Needless to say it was a pain dealing with him and now to read
>>|this makes me wish I wasn't in the business for all these years.
>>|Someone slanders me and I can do nothing.
>
>Who slandered him?? It was true!
Thanks, Dano. ;)
>Now, I have to complained about this, being in the business of mail
>order CD's to a MUCH larger degree than Archie. I would say Ash owes
>Steven an apology. I mean, how obvious to Arch it was Steve that wrote
>the letter...even after you took his name out...and to send Arch the
>flame without asking Steve was, IMO, uncalled for & uncool. I certainly
>wouldn't want my mail forwarded to a business I complain about unless
>I'm the one sending it to them myself. Not critisizing you Ash, but it
>might be better, as a courtesy, to ask before forwarding something
>volatile like that without asking the author. JMO, of course.
I have to agree. Everyone here knows that I can be quite crass and
direct about my feelings when I'm online, but if and when you want to
truly make a comment anonymous, at least remove the parts of the comment
that identify the comment's writer so blatantly! My name was removed,
but what remained was so obviously from me that it's pathetic.
>Message-ID: <3509E815.6F4C@g...>
>Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:14:45 -0800
>From: DJS
>To: Steven Feldman
>Subject: Re: Mind If I Forward Your Comments to Eurock?
>
>Steven Feldman wrote:
>>
>>Dano,
>> I plan on making a retort to the comments that Ash, Archie and you
>>have made re Eurock and to send them to both the tadream list and to
>>Eurock . . . if that's okay with you you. Let me know.
>
>That's cool, I won't do business with Archie anyway.
>
>Dano
Okay. Great. Thanks.
>Message-Id: <199803141546.JAA22533@c...>
>Subject: Eurock etc
>Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:38:20 -0000
>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
>Really-From: 'ashok prema'
>
>>[. . .] I would say Ash owes Steven an apology. I mean, how obvious to
>>Arch it was Steve that wrote the letter...even after you took his name
>>out... [. . .] it might be better, as a courtesy, to ask before
>>forwarding something volatile like that without asking the author.
>>JMO, of course.
>
>I disagree Dan.
>I am self employed and if a customer has a complaint - I want to hear
>about it -- otherwise how can I improve my service to them??
If the customer doesn't want you to know his feelings about the
matter, yet wants to tell others, tough luck. After I went to see
SPHERE, I told the ushers that it bit, and told all my friends that it
bit, but did I write to or call the film company that released it? No.
>The point of telling Archie was that there WAS some dissent amongst his
>customers that he may not be aware of -- and as his name was being
>dragged around in mud by more than one person, it was only fair to give
>him his say.......my mail excluded the name of the complainant -- it
>certainly would have been unfair of me to give the writers name -- put
>yourself in Archie's shoes -- people are slanging around his name saying
>(mostly) that his service is poor/expensive -- if he doesn't know of
>these complaints -- how can he correct them??
As with other outfits with which I am not thrilled, sometimes they
are 'the only game in town,' so sometimes I have to grin and bear it. I
had hoped to have been able to do suchlike with Eurock, but now, thanks
to your forwarded comments to him, this will most likely no longer be
possible. So, you lost Archie some revenue because of your forwarding
what you did to him.
There were three items I had tried to pre-pay via Eurock because
they were out of stock--pending arrival:
1) IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE? $9.00
2) IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE? $9.00 (an additional copy for someone
who didn't want to deal with Eurock prior to all this nonsense;
and no, I won't give you his name)
3) EARLY WATER by Hoenig/Gottsching $18.00.
So, I guess Champagne Lake lost out on some revenue, too, as a
result of this silliness (since I don't know where else to get this CD
at a decent price stateside).
>It would be great if you set up as a trader -- I would be more than
>happy to supply all Champagne lake titles to you.........who knows --
>one of your customers may be showing signs of dissatisfaction one
>day......would YOU not want to know about it??
Until you become omniscient, it is not your prerogative.
>Message-Id: <199803141736.LAA24619@c...>
>Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:39:36 -0800
>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
>Subject: Re: Eurock etc
>Really-From: DJS
>
[Ash said:]
>>I disagree Dan.
>>I am self employed and if a customer has a complaint -- I want to hear
>>about it -- otherwise how can I improve my service to them?? [. . .]
>
>I don't disagree that you forwarded the mail...I just think you should
>have asked Steve if he minded. Of course I'd want to know if any
>customers of mine were disatisfied, but I'd prefer to hear from the
>customer himself. If the customer rants to others without telling me
>about, I couldn't care less about what the customer has to say. The
>simple fact is, the customer is NOT always right anyway. [. . .]
Word-of-mouth is a fact of an open marketplace. The customer is
not obligated to direct his complaints to the merchant.
>[. . .] I just feel that it was quite obvious that it was Steve who
>wrote the letter, so in effect you were actually telling Archie it was
>Steve whether or not you posted the name.
Exactly. A little tact in selecting and omitting quoted text sent
to Eurock would have been nice. I tend not to call people 'limp-dick'
or 'laughing boy' to their faces (although I have called many people
'lame-o' directly). I used the terms I used in service of humor, since
this list (i.e. tadream) is not a dry forum for the unbiased reportage
like Cliff Tuel's Yello mailing list.
>Regarding Archie's shoes, heh, I am in his shoes technically but on a
>much larger scale. We get dozens of mail order calls everyday and deal
>with unreasonable (sometimes just plain retarded) customers. [. . .]
Yup. They're/I'm out there/here. ;)
>Archie just seems to not give a flying %^$# if his customers are happy
>or not. Of course, I only let him mess up my order once, then moved onto
>another mail order outlet so perhaps he's doing better with his
>customers. [. . .]
Well, now; that's some more 'slander' for Archie to dwell on, I
suppose.
-- Steven Feldman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe
that unidentified flying objects are nonsense. To hide the facts the Air
Force has silenced it personnel.' --Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, the
1st director of the CIA, quoted in THE NEW YORK TIMES, February 28, 1960.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Claudia Christian; Steve Roach
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:44:24 -0800
>Subject: Re: A New Source: Super EM!
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: DJS
>
>[. . .] we've recently put out Claudia Christian's (Babylon 5) 2 song
>single titled, Taboo, for her (woo hoo! the cover is HOT too!). [. . .]
Yow! I've got the tape to HEXED and five stills from the movie,
too! She *is* hot! Still, that's not enough for me to actually go as
far as to watch BABYLON 5. I watch STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE 9, STAR TREK:
VOYAGER, THE OUTER LIMITS (on Showtime), and THE X-FILES, but not B5.
>[. . .] We have some VERY interesting projects in the works I can't
>mention yet but e-music fans have waited for a specific electronic
>soundtrack to be put on CD for over 16 years, and we're working on
>getting it out as soon as we can. [. . .]
So, the movie--whatever it is--is from 1980 or 1981? I have no
idea whatsoever what it could be.
>[. . .] We're hoping to work with Franke on some special editions of B5
>releases as well. [. . .]
Oh brother. Can you say 'Jim and Pablo'? :( ;) There are already
12 B5 CDs. Aren't those enough? ;)
>NO new age inquiries please...you can find Tesh, Yanni or Enya at any
>target, KMart or Walmart. This will be mostly UK/German e-music scene.
>Sorry Mr. Roach, you can keep playing your zimbabwe flute in
>Australia..you won't be in our catalog heh heh.
Yessirreebob. It's comments like that that almost got me bumped
from GoldTri! I'm still subscribed to the Space Music list because I
don't want to miss info on folks like Robert Carty and Jonn Serrie, but
I *do* delete most of the postings I receive from that list. I think
Steve Roach has a lot to answer for for ruining much of what we call
space music today with his inclusion of ethnic/tribal/worldbeat inanity.
-- Steven Feldman
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 2:21
am
Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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Really-From: Paul Nagle
On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:10:45 +0000, tadream@c... (tadream
mailing list) wrote:
>Artistically the show left me as cold as ice. I asked my wife and she
>told me it was the coldest performance she ever attended. latest time
What a pity. I saw him at the Albert Hall and the whole thing was
magical - one of the best gigs I ever saw. His simple melodies are
quite wonderful and the contrast of dark to light compelling. Contrast
this with Edgar's latest miming extravaganza - I bet at least Kitaro
moved!
I guess there could be several explanations : different strokes, a
perception thing, he really wasn't so good this time ..... or
something beyond explanation.
Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
Paul
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: High Priced Eno and TD CDs
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:00:49 -0800
>Subject: Re: What is EUROCK/Archie Patterson's Problem?
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: Elias Granillo, Jr.
>
>>Really-From: Steven Feldman
>>
>>[. . .] I just sent a copy of Eno's MUSIC FOR THE WHITE CUBE to
>>someone--in a box, with a shitload of bubblewrap without insurance--
>>for just $3. And I had received $115 for this CD! I mean, come on:
>
>It frightens me that someone would pay that kind of money for a Brian
>Eno CD. What exactly was on it? [. . .]
Don't laugh too hard: there are people paying $50.00 and up for a
*bootleg* of TD's 'Ultima Thule' 45 as we speak.
There were only 300 copies pressed of MUSIC FOR THE WHITE CUBE. It
is excerpts from the accompaniment to an art installation in England.
It is ambient stuff--similar to MUSIC FOR AIRPORTS, ON LAND, THURSDAY
AFTERNOON, and THE SHUTOV ASSEMBLY. It cost 25 Pounds, originally, and
it wound up costing me $47 in total after factoring in the fee for a
bank draft in pounds and postage. Three weeks after I bought it, the
price went up to about $80, and then the exhibition was over, which
drove the standard going price up to $120. I put it up for bid at $115.
I sent the winner the CD, and along with it: the receipt for the bank
draft I sent--and the reply I received from the art gallery that came
with the CD.
There were 2000 copies made of QUINOA, remember--and going price
for *that* used to be $120 until 300 copies were 'discovered' in a
warehouse. Now that Voiceprint is sold out of them, the price is about
$80 per copy.
QUINOA clocks in at 29 mins. MUSIC FOR THE WHITE CUBE is 61 mins.
long. See my point? ;)
I know you hate Eno's ambient work, Eli, but I'm the sort of
e-music fan who thinks that 'Prophecy' is the *only* good thing on the
DUNE soundtrack. (no smiley; I was an Eno fan before I was a TD fan)
Steven Feldman -- 33 Brook Street, Apt. 3, Brookline, MA 02146; INTERNET:
, and BITNET: DREAMS WORD:
Electronic Dreams, POB 42385, Portland, OR 97242. The Nightcrawlers, c/o
Peter D. Gulch -- 1493 Greenwood Avenue, Camden, NJ 08103-2929. PERSONAL
FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Ozrics, R. Carty, Greinke, Serrie.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 'THE KEEP' SOUNDTRACK CAME OUT IN 1984. THREE TD FANS CAN'T BE WRONG! |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Re: High Priced Eno and TD CDs
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 9:40
pm
Subject: Re: A New Source: Super EM!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Dave Brewer
> Quote From: DJS
>
>
> Well, I'm discussing this with the guys at SC so we'll see. We have a
> lot of connections to the e-music, video game music and soundtrack
> producers so you can count on the fact that if we do start a new EMMO
> service it will simply be the best. Just so you know I'm not just
[...]
Excellent! I look forward to being one of your customers!
> ranting I would like to acknowledge that we've recently put out Claudia
> Christian's (Babylon 5) 2 song single titled, Taboo, for her (woo hoo!
> the cover is HOT too!). This month will see our release of the
> soundtrack to Krull by film composer James Horner in it's entirety
> (2-CDs) for the first time ever.
Interesting, I like Krull. Don't watch B5 tho.
We have some VERY interesting projects
> in the works I can't mention yet but e-music fans have waited for a
> specific electronic soundtrack to be put on CD for over 16 years, and
> we're working on getting it out as soon as we can.
Lessee, this is 1998... 16 years... 1, 2, 3,... OO! OO! If this is what I
think it is, I'm gonna shit a ton of happy bricks!!! 8-)~ If it is,
please don't rush on it too fast. Make sure a good job is done. (I'm sure
you will do a good job)
[...]
> catalog of WS items. Also, if you are an independant musician (hey
> Grant, Paul, Riley!) forward me your info and I'll add it to my catalog.
I guess I'm not on that list cuz I'm not on CD (except for N388). :-) It's
understandable, and I'm not ready to go to that next level yet anyawy.
In more TD-related stuff, does anyone know when TimeSquare, Ambient Monkeys,
etc are supposed to hit local stores in the US? (I don't feel like mail
ordering them) I'm glad I didn't order Luminous Visions, I don't think I
want that CD. (the video ought to be neat, tho) I wanna get Ages and
Macula Transfer, but I guess I'll have to mail order them when I can get
motivated. I'm also looking forward to hearing the Infinite Horizons set,
to see if I would in fact like some of the other artists covered in the
BTH magazine.
Dave B. (crossing my fingers!)
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Matching the LUMINOUS VISIONS CD to the Video
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:50:42 -0600 (CST)
>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
>Subject: Luminous Visions Info
>Really-From: Michael A Jean
>
>I haven't seen the video yet, but the running time is listed as 45
>minutes and has 11 tracks...
>
>The CD has a longer running time (about 70 minutes) with 12 tracks...
>However, the track list closely parallels THE VIDEO DREAM MIXES...
>
> 1) Jungle Journey (Reptile Mix) (6.20)
> 2) Towards the Evening Star (6.21)
> 3) Rough Embrace (5.30)
> 4) Catwalk (Black Ink Mix) (8.12)
> 5) Touchwood (the Forest Mix) (4.02)
> 6) Change of the Gods (7.19)
> 7) Bride in Cold Tears (The Motown Monk Mix) (5.31)
> 8) Little Blonde in the Park Of Attractions (The Thai Dub) (4.09)
> 9) Firetongues (The Break Freak Mix) (6.18)
>10) Sojus (9.19)
>11) Flashflood (7.01)
>12) Midwinter Night (4.36)
Wow! Three of my fave TD tracks of the last five years, back-to-
back: 'Towards the Evening Star,' 'Rought Embrace,' and 'Catwalk' (Black
Ink Mix'! :) *Somebody* was thinking! ;) :)
>The difference are that tracks 2, 11, and 12 don't appear on Video
>Dream Mixes, whereas San Rocco appears on [VIDEO DREAM MIXES] but not
>[LUMINOUS VISIONS].
Strange. I wonder why that might be.
>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:03:40 -0700
>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
>Subject: Luminous Visions
>Really-From: Tom Gerardy
>
>OK so here's the video part, nobody better than me ['better than me'?]
>at this has done it yet so...
>
>The video is divided into 11 'tracks' as follows:
>
> 1) The Conception
> 2) Sea Dance
> 3) Exponential Growth
> 4) Hyperkinetic
> 5) Perceptual Fusion
> 6) Focal Point
> 7) Spherical
> 8) Liquid Life
> 9) Morphological Inception
>10) Exotica
>11) Artificial Life Trip
>
>Each piece uses one of the TD pieces and the 12th audio track plays over
>the end credits.
>
>Modern era TD works quite well as the soundtrack for this animated
>video, but it is a plus for the video not for the music. The pieces are
>faded in and out fairly tastefully if you aren't primarily listening to
>the music or aren't familiar with the music. It wasn't butchered, but I
>did notice.
>
>Overall I liked it, but I like that sort of thing. I also own 'The
>Mind's Eye', 'Beyond The Mind's Eye', etc. and have a long standing
>interest in computer graphics and animation. My recomendation is, don't
>buy it for the TD, but if you want to watch some eye candy to TD go for
>it.
Other than buying the package to get ahold of the CD so that I can
hear tracks 2-4, 6, and 11 all on the same disc (yeah!), I'd like to
have the video as an incentive to get infidels (i.e. non-TD fanatics) to
like--or at least check out--the band.
1) Jungle Journey (Rep Mix) (6.20) 1) The Conception
2) Towards the Evening Star (6.21) 2) Sea Dance
3) Rough Embrace (5.30) 3) Exponential Growth
4) Catwalk (Black Ink Mix) (8.12) 4) Hyperkinetic
5) Touchwood (Forest Mix) (4.02) 5) Perceptual Fusion
6) Change of the Gods (7.19) 6) Focal Point
7) Bride in CT (M Monk Mix) (5.31) 7) Spherical
8) Little Blonde (Thai Dub) (4.09) 8) Liquid Life
9) Firetongues (BFreak Mix) (6.18) 9) Morphological Inception
10) Sojus (9.19) 10) Exotica
11) Flashflood (7.01) 11) Artificial Life Trip
12) Midwinter Night (4.36) 12) (end credits theme)
Okay, now, who's going to match up the CD tracks with the video
tracks and to give the video track's running times? (Is/will there
be a laserdisk release of this that comes with a free CD, too?)
-- Steven Feldman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe
that unidentified flying objects are nonsense. To hide the facts the Air
Force has silenced it personnel.' --Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, the
1st director of the CIA, quoted in THE NEW YORK TIMES, February 28, 1960.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 4:43
pm
Subject: 'Beam'
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Brian E. Kirby'
> Even, there were some interesting parts such as when Kitaro played what
> he call Beam and Sandoor. Beam is as far as I saw a squared box with an
> antenna. As he approached his hand to that antenna pith of sound was
> higher in a continuous way. He combined Beam with Sandoor, a long
> corded structure.
Kitaro may call it 'Beam', but it sounds quite a bit like a Theremin
(sp?), which was invented by a Russian of the same name. Most
notable uses include the Beach Boys in 'Good Vibrations' and, of
course, Led Zeppelin in the live version of 'Dazed and Confused.'
'Writers are monkeys who mean' - David Foster Wallace
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 14, 1998 11:12
pm
Subject: monolight
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: tangram
so far, i've only been able to track down this song only on one CD which
is 'live'
the song is titled 'MONOLIGHT' and i'm 100% sure there's a studio
version of this song somewhere...
does any1 know where?
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Michael A Jean
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Re: monolight
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Mon
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Re: monolight
=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWW
Mon
3/16/1998
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Re: monolight
AOutland
Wed
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 3:51
am
Subject: Re: Suggestions...
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Gilles Nadeau'
About TD album's, For Me the best albums are:
Rubycon, Poland (the first piece is a must...) , Cyclone, 220 volt but I
like all the others....
----------
> De : tadream mailing list
> A : tadream@c...
> Objet : Re: Suggestions...
> Date : 13 mars, 1998 21:48
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c...
that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Really-From: AOutland
>
>
> In a message dated 98-03-12 09:43:22 EST, you write:
>
> << His only stipulation was that the music 'go somewhere' as opposed to
> 'meandering about'. I believe you all get his drift.
>
> So... I have some opinions of my own, but I'd also like some
suggestions
> from you all for those TD tracks that you feel 'go somewhere' (i.e.
'kick
> some butt'). >>
> Definitely I would recommend LiveMiles. Also Tangram, Logos. Dell
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 5:43
am
Subject: Re: Claudia Christian; Steve Roach & peyote
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DJS
> >[. . .] We're hoping to work with Franke on some special editions of B5
> >releases as well. [. . .]
>
> Oh brother. Can you say 'Jim and Pablo'? :( ;) There are already
> 12 B5 CDs. Aren't those enough? ;)
For me there are, for all the B5 & Franke fans with deniro in their
pocket that we want to use to expand our business...there aren't. ;-)
>
> >NO new age inquiries please...you can find Tesh, Yanni or Enya at any
> >target, KMart or Walmart. This will be mostly UK/German e-music scene.
> >Sorry Mr. Roach, you can keep playing your zimbabwe flute in
> >Australia..you won't be in our catalog heh heh.
>
> Yessirreebob. It's comments like that that almost got me bumped
> from GoldTri!
Getting bumped from Goldtri is not that easy. You have to make some
reference to sex in conjunction with the list owner to get hurled.
However, I think I was special so it might not work anymore. ;-)
I'm still subscribed to the Space Music list because I
> don't want to miss info on folks like Robert Carty and Jonn Serrie, but
> I *do* delete most of the postings I receive from that list. I think
> Steve Roach has a lot to answer for for ruining much of what we call
> space music today with his inclusion of ethnic/tribal/worldbeat inanity.
>
> -- Steven Feldman
I think Steve Roach smokes peyote these days. He started off on a good
synth tangent (pardon the pun) but ended up playing cards around a
campfire with Coyote Oldman.
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 5:47
am
Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Paul Nagle
>
> On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:10:45 +0000, tadream@c... (tadream
> mailing list) wrote:
>
> >Artistically the show left me as cold as ice. I asked my wife and she
> >told me it was the coldest performance she ever attended. latest time
>
> What a pity. I saw him at the Albert Hall and the whole thing was
> magical - one of the best gigs I ever saw. His simple melodies are
> quite wonderful and the contrast of dark to light compelling. Contrast
> this with Edgar's latest miming extravaganza - I bet at least Kitaro
> moved!
>
> I guess there could be several explanations : different strokes, a
> perception thing, he really wasn't so good this time ..... or
> something beyond explanation.
>
> Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
>
> Paul
I've never seen Kitaro but I'd actually like to watch him in 'action'. I
only own his Milennia release (which reminded me of the sad music from
faces of death when they slaughtered the cows heh) but I can't imagine
anyone needing more than one of his releases. Like old pink years
TD...who needs more than one release? If you have Atem...you have all
you need from the first 5 releases.
Dano
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Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
Paul Nagle
Sun
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 7:16
am
Subject: Re: High Priced Eno and TD CDs
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
> I know you hate Eno's ambient work, Eli, but I'm the sort of
> e-music fan who thinks that 'Prophecy' is the *only* good thing on the
> DUNE soundtrack. (no smiley; I was an Eno fan before I was a TD fan)
Look out for flying ceramic plates from Dano's corner, but I like that
track, too!
E-Man
np: Le Orme, *Il Fiume*
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 4:31
pm
Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Paul Nagle
On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:47:12 -0800, tadream@c... (tadream
mailing list) wrote:
>TD...who needs more than one release? If you have Atem...you have all
>you need from the first 5 releases.
Unless you like them.....
those. Mind you there are still some good tunes in some of the others
but why listen to just the same boring collection of instruments and
sounds if all that changes are the notes? After all, the notes aren't
relevant to us emusic types, are they?
;-)
Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------
www.softroom.demon.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 4:31
pm
Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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Really-From: Paul Nagle
On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:47:12 -0800, tadream@c... (tadream
mailing list) wrote:
>TD...who needs more than one release? If you have Atem...you have all
>you need from the first 5 releases.
Unless you like them.....
those. Mind you there are still some good tunes in some of the others
but why listen to just the same boring collection of instruments and
sounds if all that changes are the notes? After all, the notes aren't
relevant to us emusic types, are they?
;-)
Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------
www.softroom.demon.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 1:33
pm
Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: SRiser3600
ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT A U.S. TOUR FOR KITARO ??
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 7:20
pm
Subject: Re: Seeing vs. Hearing (ambient sound)
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Paul Nagle
>
> On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:47:12 -0800, tadream@c... (tadream
> mailing list) wrote:
>
> >TD...who needs more than one release? If you have Atem...you have all
> >you need from the first 5 releases.
> Unless you like them.....
> those. Mind you there are still some good tunes in some of the others
> but why listen to just the same boring collection of instruments and
> sounds if all that changes are the notes? After all, the notes aren't
> relevant to us emusic types, are they?
I am very partial to melody in my music. The slow ambient stuff is great
if all you want is an atmoshere in the room that's usually dark and
industrial but I usually want to actually travel somewhere other than a
lifeless post-apocalypic battlefield when I hear my music. I do actually
like ambient sound (sorry, I can't call it music), in fact I was given a
terrific ambient 'score' from the folks at Interplay. The musician is,
get ready to laugh, Mark Morgan (is he your reverse twin Morgan?) and
the OST is for the game titled Fallout. It's quite interesting as far as
ambient sound goes..but I'd rarely reach for it because it puts me in a
dark place I don't usually like being in (as does most ambient stuff).
Now, music with a dark melody..that's a different story.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 7:40
pm
Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.'
> Really-From: Paul Nagle
>
> On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:10:45 +0000, tadream@c... (tadream
> mailing list) wrote:
>
> >Artistically the show left me as cold as ice. I asked my wife and she
> >told me it was the coldest performance she ever attended. latest time
>
> What a pity. I saw him at the Albert Hall and the whole thing was
> magical - one of the best gigs I ever saw. His simple melodies are
> quite wonderful and the contrast of dark to light compelling. Contrast
> this with Edgar's latest miming extravaganza - I bet at least Kitaro
> moved!
Don't misunderstand me. I enjoyed the show even I his music didn't touch
me. My wife liked too. It's only it wasn't emotive.
> I guess there could be several explanations : different strokes, a
> perception thing, he really wasn't so good this time ..... or
> something beyond explanation.
It's my perception. You see, You find those simple tunes wonderful, I
find them uninteresting. Compared to Himekami, another japanese e-music
group, I like the later much better and both use electronics and
japanese traditional tunes but Himekami has more warmth to me. Look for
Moonwater or Cipangu ( by Himekami) and you'll see what I mean. And
seeing Kitaro live didn't change my opinion, but I agree his show is
worthwhile.
> Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
As I told you I did. I don't feel I've wasted my money.
---Francisco
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 10:03
am
Subject: Re: Luminous Visions
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Really-From: 'Francisco Salgado C.'
Hi
Does somebody know where to find Luminous Visions in european (PAL)
format ?
Regards
Francisco
Replies
Name/Email
Yahoo! ID
Date
Size
12031
Luminous Visions
Michael A Jean
Sun
3/15/1998
3 KB
13294
Luminous Visions
TangerineC
Thu
4/23/1998
2 KB
13295
Luminous Visions
TangerineC
Thu
4/23/1998
2 KB
13457
Luminous Visions
Sean Montgomery
Thu
4/30/1998
4 KB
14036
Luminous Visions
Tom807@a...
Sat
5/30/1998
3 KB
14058
Re: Luminous Visions
AR402004@B...
Mon
6/1/1998
3 KB
14059
Re: Luminous Visions
Tom807@a...
Mon
6/1/1998
3 KB
17322
Re: Luminous Visions
James Horecka, AIA
Wed
7/28/1999
1 KB
17323
Luminous Visions
Joel Mullen
Wed
7/28/1999
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 1:42
am
Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
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Really-From: Paul Nagle
>TD...who needs more than one release? If you have Atem...you have all
>you need from the first 5 releases.
Unless you like them.........and if you have Haydn's 100th symphony,
you have all you need of those. Mind you there are still some good
tunes in some of the others but why listen to just the same boring
collection of instruments and sounds if all that changes are the
notes? After all, the notes aren't relevant to us emusic types, are
they?
;-)
Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------
www.softroom.demon.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 8:53
pm
Subject: Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
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Really-From: Rich Maggio
OK, I feel the need to speak up here. The last I heard, these mailing
lists are a PUBLIC forum. How did you not know that Archie wasn't a
subscriber to this mailing list, or that someone he knows is on it?
I think it is absurd to complain that your comments were forwarded to
Archie. If you have a perfectly valid point (which I am sure you do)
and stand by it, so what if he found out about it?!?
I had a bad experience with an online CD company and I sent a
message to this list detailing my experience. I didn't care if
they found out - I copied them on the message!!! And even if I didn't
copy them on it, I would have assumed that they would have received a
copy since I was making my statement in a public forum.
If 'retribution' is a concern, then the comments should not have been
made in a public forum. Period.
Just my 2 cents.
Rich Maggio
> direct about my feelings when I'm online, but if and when you want to
> truly make a comment anonymous, at least remove the parts of the comment
> that identify the comment's writer so blatantly! My name was removed,
> but what remained was so obviously from me that it's pathetic.
Replies
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12035
Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
David Datta
Mon
3/16/1998
4 KB
12039
Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 9:11
pm
Subject: monolight
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Really-From: Michael A Jean
RE: Where does Monolight appear:
Encore (live)
TD 70-80 Box (shortened single version)
Tangents Box Set (redone studio version)
MJ
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 9:14
pm
Subject: Luminous Visions
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Really-From: Michael A Jean
Steve Feldman asked about comparing the CD and the Video...
I believe the songs run in the same order on the video as they are listed
on the CD, they are just shortened on the video...
I don't know about a Laserdisc Version, but there will be a DVD...
IMHO, the video provides an excellent backdrop for the music (or vice
versa)... It all comes together beautifully, except the last track doesn;t
seem to be sychronized as well as the rest...
MJ
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 9:18
pm
Subject: D: Ambient Monkeys
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Really-From: Michael A Jean
PROS: Interesting Artwork
Remembering the anticipation of a TD concert (pre-show music)
Some cool ideas, and the incorporation of some more classical
themes (well some people may dislike that)
CONS: Just one long track (no cues to the different tracks)
You have to be 'in the mood' to listen to it all the way through
Jungle sounds sometimes drown out interesting stuff down in the mix
MJ
Replies
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12047
D: Ambient Monkeys
Tom Gerardy
Mon
3/16/1998
4 KB
13174
D: Ambient Monkeys
Boneheads1
Mon
4/20/1998
4 KB
13195
D: Ambient Monkeys
PENFOLD
Mon
4/20/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 9:24
pm
Subject: Eurock again!
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Really-From: Michael A Jean
Well I didn't expect to become involved in this matter, but...
In all the years I have been buying from Archie I have never been
mis-shipped or had an order go unfilled, or had any other problems...
I mean, you can't stay in business all these years unless you are doing
something right...
Maybe the prices for shipping are higher than you would like to pay, but
everyone is free to shop elsewhere if you can find the stuff...
Let everyone reach there own conclusions on the matter, and lets move on
already!!!
MJ
Replies
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Date
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12034
Eurock & Progtron Addendum
Mike Livsey
Sun
3/15/1998
4 KB
12040
Re: Eurock again!
DJS
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
12045
Re: Eurock again!
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
12057
Re: Eurock again!
DJS
Mon
3/16/1998
4 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 7:51
am
Subject: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
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Really-From: mlivsey@n... (Mike Livsey)
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:24:44 -0600 (CST), you wrote:
>Really-From: Michael A Jean
>
>
>
>Well I didn't expect to become involved in this matter, but...
>
>In all the years I have been buying from Archie I have never been
>mis-shipped or had an order go unfilled, or had any other problems...
>
>I mean, you can't stay in business all these years unless you are doing
>something right...
>
>Maybe the prices for shipping are higher than you would like to pay, but
>everyone is free to shop elsewhere if you can find the stuff...
>
>Let everyone reach there own conclusions on the matter, and lets move on
>already!!!
>
>MJ
>
>
I just talked to Archie today; he's currently being scr*wed by MC &
Visa for entering CC orders manually as opposed to swiping someone's
card, plus they're dinging him for foreign orders. He doesn't ship
enough volume to eat those charges...
He recommended that I go back to using money orders for future
purchases...
Ranjit's out of business until September as he's too busy tying to
make ends meet.
It just doesn't pay to be an indie...
--
Mike Livsey
'A woman is a lot like a beer; they smell good,
they look good, and you would step over your
own mother just to get one. But you can't stop
at just one; you wanna drink another woman.'
--Homer J. Simpson
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 3:09
am
Subject: Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: David Datta
: Really-From: Steven Feldman
: >Steven an apology. I mean, how obvious to Arch it was Steve that wrote
: >the letter...even after you took his name out...and to send Arch the
: >flame without asking Steve was, IMO, uncalled for & uncool. I certainly
: >wouldn't want my mail forwarded to a business I complain about unless
: >I'm the one sending it to them myself. Not critisizing you Ash, but it
: >might be better, as a courtesy, to ask before forwarding something
: >volatile like that without asking the author. JMO, of course.
:
: I have to agree. Everyone here knows that I can be quite crass and
: direct about my feelings when I'm online, but if and when you want to
: truly make a comment anonymous, at least remove the parts of the comment
: that identify the comment's writer so blatantly! My name was removed,
: but what remained was so obviously from me that it's pathetic.
Well, I think you are completely wrong here. What makes you think that
Archie is not on the list or doesn't regularly get postings that relate
to him via list archives? If he was on the list, would you have posted
the complaint? Did you bother to check if he is here? All messages
posted to the mailing list here are archived via several archiving
engines that are publically searchable.
Once you post to this list, your mail is PUBLIC, it can be copied to
ANYONE by ANYONE. There is no implied privacy on this list. If you
don't want someone to see what you have to say, think before you post
it and don't post it here if you want it kept from someone.
It doesn't matter if you have good or bad things to say about
something, when you say it here, it will be archived, it will be sent
to people you know and people you don't know. You cannot complain about
lack of privacy when posting to a public forum.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 3:27
am
Subject: Re: monolight
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Vic Rek
>Really-From: Michael A Jean
>RE: Where does Monolight appear:
>
>Encore (live)
>TD 70-80 Box (shortened single version)
>Tangents Box Set (redone studio version)
Also on 7' vinyl.
Vic
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:46
am
Subject: Re: Meeting TD
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Really-From: rmknudson@j... (matt knudson)
I attended the Optical Race Tour concert at the Wiltern Theater in Los
Angeles on September 23, 1988. After the concert, which was incredible
by the way, I presented my TDIFC identification card to the stage crew
staff in hopes of meeting the band as was promised in the newsletter.
They told me and my 2 friends to wait a few minutes. They soon came back
with autographed photocards from the band and explained to us that the
guys were too tired to meet with any fans that night. What a
disappointment that was for us. I mean we drove all the way from Utah
(800 miles) to see them and actually meet them as well. I am arguably
their biggest fan from Utah with close to 110 cd's by them and figured
the least they could do was to say hello to us. Oh well, it was still
worth it to see the concert, third row seats too! Maybe someday.
Matt
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 15, 1998 10:30
pm
Subject: New Info on Infinite Horizons
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Really-From: 'Brian E. Kirby'
Greetings All,
For those of you who in Europe who wanted to get a copy of Infinite
Horizons but did not want to have it shipped across an ocean or
subscribe to Beyond the Horizon will be pleased to know that there
are two other outlets for the release. Both Manikin in Germany
(manikinms@a... or http://www.manikin.de) and Neuharmony in
England (david@n... or http://www.newharm.demon.co.uk)
will also have a limited amount of this release. For more
information on price and shipping costs, you should either send Email
to or visit the sites of the places I have listed. I will, of
course, answer any other questions that I can.
We now return you to the list, already in progress...
-B. Kirby
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 3:46
am
Subject: Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: David Datta
>
> Once you post to this list, your mail is PUBLIC, it can be copied to
> ANYONE by ANYONE. There is no implied privacy on this list. If you
> don't want someone to see what you have to say, think before you post
> it and don't post it here if you want it kept from someone.
True, true, people! Da Wiz has spoken, and I agree with the Seventh Insight
of Datta.
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:57
am
Subject: Re: Eurock again!
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Really-From: DJS
> Well I didn't expect to become involved in this matter, but...
>
> In all the years I have been buying from Archie I have never been
> mis-shipped or had an order go unfilled, or had any other problems...
>
> I mean, you can't stay in business all these years unless you are doing
> something right...
Heh, where did you learn that?
>
> Maybe the prices for shipping are higher than you would like to pay, but
> everyone is free to shop elsewhere if you can find the stuff...
And everyone is free to complain about business' that suck (pardon the
prolific word 'suck').
>
> Let everyone reach there own conclusions on the matter, and lets move on
> already!!!
>
> MJ
You move on, we're having a discussion here...point, click, delete. It's
quite simple actually.
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 5:02
am
Subject: Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
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Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> I just talked to Archie today; he's currently being scr*wed by MC &
> Visa for entering CC orders manually as opposed to swiping someone's
> card, plus they're dinging him for foreign orders. He doesn't ship
> enough volume to eat those charges...
Well it's time to get a real job then I'd say. Hobbyists make poor
salespeople. It's not smart to sell emusic just because you like it.
Loving something can pay the bills but not if the majority of others
don't love it. Let's face it, emusic does not sell well..period. True
you can make extra money if you have it as a small side dish...but you
can't make a living out of only emusic unless you are one of maybe 20
pioneers (TD, Jarre, Shreeve, Kraftwerk, etc).
>
> He recommended that I go back to using money orders for future
> purchases...
>
> Ranjit's out of business until September as he's too busy tying to
> make ends meet.
This makes my point, and so does that fact that Minette Music is on the
way out.
>
> It just doesn't pay to be an indie...
I think Mike's just said the most intelligent thing here. It DOESN'T
pay. You want to make money you sell pop or cinema.
> --
> Mike Livsey
Dano
Replies
Name/Email
Yahoo! ID
Date
Size
12044
Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
12048
Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
Andrew J. Rozsa
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
12050
Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
Wall Of Sound
Mon
3/16/1998
4 KB
12084
Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
Plumer, Scott
Tue
3/17/1998
2 KB
12117
Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
feldon@p...
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 5:15
am
Subject: Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle/intervention of Gandalf the wise
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>
> > Really-From: David Datta
> >
> > Once you post to this list, your mail is PUBLIC, it can be copied to
> > ANYONE by ANYONE. There is no implied privacy on this list. If you
> > don't want someone to see what you have to say, think before you post
> > it and don't post it here if you want it kept from someone.
>
> True, true, people! Da Wiz has spoken, and I agree with the Seventh Insight
> of Datta.
>
> E-Man
Haha, just call him Gandalf like we always do when talking to each other
haha! Er, that's a compliment Dave. (Gandalf=oh wise one who controls
the almighty TD list) ;-)
Dano
Replies
Name/Email
Yahoo! ID
Date
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12046
Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle/intervention of Ga
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:14
am
Subject: Rolling Down...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: rmknudson@j... (matt knudson)
>
> I attended the Optical Race Tour concert at the Wiltern Theater in Los
> Angeles on September 23, 1988. After the concert, which was incredible
> by the way, I presented my TDIFC identification card to the stage crew
> staff in hopes of meeting the band as was promised in the newsletter.
> They told me and my 2 friends to wait a few minutes. They soon came back
> with autographed photocards from the band and explained to us that the
> guys were too tired to meet with any fans that night. What a
disappointment that was
Too bad. That's what happens after TD spends a whole down piddling down
Pico Boulevard. Dan and I waited along with others outside the Wiltern in
'92,
and the only sign of non-fan life we saw was Zlatko ducking out a side
door, throwing a glance in our direction, then walking off in the opposite
direction with some broad. Dan and I looked at each other, said 'Whatever!'
and booked.
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:20
am
Subject: Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: DJS
>
>
> This makes my point, and so does that fact that Minette Music is on the
> way out.
Too bad about Dave. Maybe he'd have more business if, for starters, he'd
return my calls.
After five rings, I gave up.
> > It just doesn't pay to be an indie...
>
> I think Mike's just said the most intelligent thing here. It DOESN'T
> pay. You want to make money you sell pop or cinema.
Cinema! That's why I'm starting up an adult mail-order biz
http://www.rocksoff.com/boner/hi/
E-Man
Replies
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Yahoo! ID
Date
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12048
Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
Andrew J. Rozsa
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:27
am
Subject: Re: Eurock again!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: DJS
>
> > In all the years I have been buying from Archie I have never been
> > mis-shipped or had an order go unfilled, or had any other problems...
> >
> > I mean, you can't stay in business all these years unless you are doing
> > something right...
>
> Heh, where did you learn that?
The flipside: you *can,* but often you'll barely break even, or garner
little profit, if at all. In E-Music, a mail-order supply can be the Kiss
of Death if you try to make it your sole source of income. Even cans of
beans are inexpensive, but when the dough gets low...Archie did quite well,
I believe, retailing the Schulze box sets.
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:28
am
Subject: Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle/intervention of Gandalf the wise
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> > True, true, people! Da Wiz has spoken, and I agree with the Seventh
Insight
> > of Datta.
> >
> > E-Man
>
> Haha, just call him Gandalf like we always do when talking to each other
> haha! Er, that's a compliment Dave. (Gandalf=oh wise one who controls
> the almighty TD list) ;-)
>
> Dano
I don't think he'd mind if we called him 'Almighty,' hehe. Let's.
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 6:59
am
Subject: D: Ambient Monkeys
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Really-From: Tom Gerardy
For those that may want to listen to individual 'tracks' from ambient
monkeys here is a first hack at starting times for the tracks:
1. Token from birdland 0:00
2. Symphony in a-minor 6:00
3. The seventh propeller of silence 8:05
4. Calyx Calamander 12:15
5. Largo 17:09
6. Riddle of the monkey tribe 20:36
7. Moon marble 23:42
8. Concerto in a-major 27:45
9. Lemon Vendor Khaly 29:50
10. Campera de Mon Glyan 32:40
11. Virtue is its own reward 37:27
12. Pantha rhei 40:36
13. Myopia world 44:52
Times are aproximate, the ambient parts usually get opaque and hide the
musical parts for a minute or so between pieces and I basically recorded
the time I could no longer here music underneath.
Does anyone understand the line on the front which says:
Dream folder #1 at Crimson's train lodge 'Myopia world'
I understand the words, but communications are not established :-)
Several pieces sound familiar, but not under these names. Unfortunately
I am one of those people who has great difficulty attaching names to the
songs even when much listened to, so I can't say easily what corresponds
to what (or is related.) Anybody want to take that one on for me?
--tom
np: Klaus Schulze - X - Frank Herbert (rocks! I'm re-reading Dune so
there is some Schulze listening obligatory...)
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 6:09
am
Subject: Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
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Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa'
At 08:20 PM 3/15/1998 -0800, E-Man wrote:
>> This makes my point, and so does that fact that Minette Music is on the
>> way out.
>
>Too bad about Dave. Maybe he'd have more business if, for starters, he'd
>return my calls.
>After five rings, I gave up.
Anyone who doesn't bother returning calls (messages left on an answering
machine) NEEDS to be out of business. :-(
>Cinema! That's why I'm starting up an adult mail-order biz
>http://www.rocksoff.com/boner/hi/
Chickened out, eh? I see further possibilities with www.rocksoff.com. ;-)
Andrew
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 6:54
am
Subject: Re: Does No One Care?
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Really-From: 'DAVID HAESLER'
> I wish to unsubscribe to this mailing list and when i follow the
> instructions exactly this is what happens:
>
> I get an email back saying:
>
> --
>
> >>>> unsubscribe tadream-digest
> **** unsubscribe: '' is not a member of list
> 'tadream-digest'.
>
> Please can anyone help?
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 5:54
pm
Subject: Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
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Really-From: 'Wall Of Sound'
On 15 Mar 98 at 21:02, tadream mailing list wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: DJS
>
>
> tadream mailing list wrote:
> >
>
> > I just talked to Archie today; he's currently being scr*wed by MC &
> > Visa for entering CC orders manually as opposed to swiping someone's
> > card, plus they're dinging him for foreign orders. He doesn't ship
> > enough volume to eat those charges...
>
> Well it's time to get a real job then I'd say. Hobbyists make poor
> salespeople.
well this one isn't serious and consistent enough. If you want to get
in the business you have to know the ropes.
Archie doesn't thence he wears peoples' nerves with his harrassing
and costs them money in so called delays and incorrect charges for
about everything.
Do business with someone who is serious about business and is able
to do straight deals.
It's not smart to sell
emusic just because you like it.
> Loving something can pay the bills but not if the majority of others
> don't love it. Let's face it, emusic does not sell well..period. True
> you can make extra money if you have it as a small side dish...but you
> can't make a living out of only emusic unless you are one of maybe 20
> pioneers (TD, Jarre, Shreeve, Kraftwerk, etc).
> >
> > He recommended that I go back to using money orders for future
> > purchases...
> >
> > Ranjit's out of business until September as he's too busy tying to
> > make ends meet.
>
> This makes my point, and so does that fact that Minette Music is on the
> way out.
>
> >
> > It just doesn't pay to be an indie...
>
> I think Mike's just said the most intelligent thing here. It DOESN'T
> pay. You want to make money you sell pop or cinema.
>
> > --
> > Mike Livsey
>
>
> Dano
>
>
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 7:35
am
Subject: Software Announcement
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Really-From: postoffice@m...
Dear Colleague:
Meridian Marketing Group of Sedona, AZ, marketing scientific, engineering, and
Internet-Enabled software via Electronic Commerce, announces a Series of FREE
E-Mail Newsletters on high-tech software topics.
Below is a list of the topics discussed in the Newsletter Series:
Multiprocessing Neural Networks/Fuzzy Logic/Fuzzy Control
Business Process Reengineering Discrete/Continuous Event Simulation
Statistical Analysis Architectural/Industrial/Mechanical CAD/FEA
Internet/Intranet Technology ERP/JIT/Manufacturing Software
Project Management Object-Oriented CASE Tools
Graphical Application Interfaces Virtual Reality
Software Testing Data Warehousing/Data Mining
Internet Conferencing Geographic Information Systems
To receive more information on the above technology categories, send any E-Mail
to mailto:info@m...; this will return a listing of the News-
letters and instructions for receiving sample copies and free E-Mail subscrip-
tions.
Visit our Website at http://www.meridian-marketing.com to view descriptions of
our high-tech software products.
You can reach us at mailto:inquiries@m... or at 520-282-6300.
Please include a telephone number and product(s) of interest with any e-mail.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 1:08
pm
Subject: B5
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Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------
> Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
(...)
>
> Oh brother. Can you say 'Jim and Pablo'? :( ;) There are already
> 12 B5 CDs. Aren't those enough? ;)
>
(...)
>
> -- Steven Feldman
12??? WHen were the last 5 released? Dan, are you letting me down ??
;-)
C.B. Vincent Goudreault
online since early 93, TD fan since 77
first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet
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Mon
3/16/1998
4 KB
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Re: B5
Kees
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
12106
Re: B5
Vic Rek
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
12128
B5
Michael A Jean
Wed
3/18/1998
2 KB
34222
B5
Michael Jean
Tue
6/4/2002
2 KB
34235
Re: B5
Miguel Farah
Wed
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2 KB
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Owens, James
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:32
pm
Subject: My email address is changing!
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Really-From: 'Gibbons, Conrad'
From: Conrad Gibbons
To: Tadream Readers
Yo dudes,
IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO CONTACT ME BY EMAIL:
Please note that from 27 March 98 my email address changes to:
conrad.gibbons@l...
and my 'old' address will become defunct
(conrad.gibbons@r...).
For the curious amongst you where I work is now called Letterkenny
Institute of Technology (hence lyit) and up until recently was termed a
Regional Technical College (hence rtc)!
While listening to Fort Worth Runway One on headphones the other day I
noticed a 'click' at 1.49/1.50 into the track that sounds like it
shouldn't be there! Anyone else notice this?
Regards,
Conrad Gibbons
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=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWW
Mon
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 4:29
pm
Subject: The Beam
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Really-From: 'Craig Shipley'
Re: Kitaro and The Beam ('...it's Pinky and The Brain' :-) ).
The Beam is not a Theremin. Wayyy back in the early '80's, there was a
rather exotic stringed device that (I think) Michael Sterns played quite a
bit. If memory serves, it was an 18-foot long aluminum (titanium? Naah,
would be way too expensive! 'Strategic material'.) beam with 'X' number of
metal wires, strung from end to end. It was played kinda like the way that
you would play a steel guitar. I don't remember this all that well, so I
could have a few of the details screwed up, corrections welcomed. CD's that
I remember having The Beam on them were by Kitaro, Michael Sterns and Craig
Huxley (he was the guy that played the kid on the original 'Lost In Space';
the CD was a waste of polycarbonate, to put it nicely...)
NP: FSOL / Dead Cities
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
Craig Shipley craigs@s...
Siemens-Pyramid Information Systems, Inc.
1100 Johnson Ferry Rd. NE Suite 400
Atlanta, Georgia 30342 (404) 845-3404
Corporate Voice Mail (800) 333-5754 x-2023
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SRiser3600
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Re: The Beam
Elias Granillo, Jr.
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3/17/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 5:18
pm
Subject: Re: The Beam
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Really-From: SRiser3600
It was Billy Mumy that played the kid (Will Robinson) on Lost in space
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Playing Devil's Advocate: Not All Kitaro is Sappy Drivel
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:47:12 -0800
>Subject: Re: Kitaro Concerts: Seeing vs. Hearing
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: DJS
>
>I've never seen Kitaro but I'd actually like to watch him in 'action'.
>I only own his Milennia release [. . .]
Figures: it's the soundtrack from a (Matsumoto) anime. ;) Tell me,
Dano--do you have a copy of the original Japanese album, with the anime
art from the film on the cover? (It's *really* nice-looking; I saw it
in a store when it came out.)
>[. . .] but I can't imagine anyone needing more than one of his
>releases. [. . .]
Errr... I used to think the same about Kitaro, myself, having heard
five of his albums and having really liked only *two tracks* among them,
but then a friend told me that not all Kitaro was sappy drivel--like SILK
ROAD, an album that this guy *likes* (why people like this record is
beyond my understanding; Deuter is never as feeble, threadbare, sappy,
and listless as this!)--and lent me four cassettes. He was right. There
are actually Kitaro tracks that are kickass and similar to Tangerine
Dream and Jean-Michel Jarre (*good* Jarre, that is)--it's just that they
are few and far between. I have yet to hear a Kitaro album that is any
more than 50% kickass. Most of his stuff is marred by that sappy flute-
like synth backed by tinkly sounds and a muted synth-horn section
backdrop. Yick. (Reminds me of sugar or saccharine.) There is a lot
of decent upbeat stuff on his recent live album--from 1996, I think.
>[. . .] Like old pink years TD...who needs more than one release? If
>you have Atem...you have all you need from the first 5 releases.
Need I remind you that there are some people out there who think
that ELECTRONIC MEDITATION is TD's *only* good album? (Granted, this
feeling is evinced by folks who tend to be into industrial and hardcore
and bands like Can, Neu, the Swans, and Einsturzende Neubaten--but they
feel that way nonetheless.)
-- Steven Feldman
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 7:05
pm
Subject: Re: Eurock again!
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Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>
> > Really-From: DJS
> >
> > > In all the years I have been buying from Archie I have never been
> > > mis-shipped or had an order go unfilled, or had any other problems...
> > >
> > > I mean, you can't stay in business all these years unless you are doing
> > > something right...
> >
> > Heh, where did you learn that?
>
> The flipside: you *can,* but often you'll barely break even, or garner
> little profit, if at all. In E-Music, a mail-order supply can be the Kiss
> of Death if you try to make it your sole source of income. Even cans of
> beans are inexpensive, but when the dough gets low...Archie did quite well,
> I believe, retailing the Schulze box sets.
>
> E-Man
Quite true. If you diversify & carry Prog & Emusic you could actually
make a living from it. The great expense comes from items on hand. If
you can't keep it on your shelves & people have to wait for it for
months...chances are they will go get stuff elsewhere...though these
days there isn't too many more places you can go. Archie survives
because he's smart and invests his profits to put out his own
releases..that's the key to succeeding.
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 5:09
pm
Subject: Re: monolight
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>Really-From: Michael A Jean
>
>
>
>RE: Where does Monolight appear:
>
>Encore (live)
>TD 70-80 Box (shortened single version)
>Tangents Box Set (redone studio version)
>
>MJ
>
Maybe he doesn't mean 'the words : monolight', I've seen them elsewhere, but
maybe he would mean 'the music of monolight', I've heard it before in a
studio album. Remember the last part, it is a piano part that sounds like
the ending of 'Invisible limits' in the 'stratosfear' album.
hope that serves
Fred
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 7:12
pm
Subject: Re: B5
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Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
>
> tadream mailing list wrote:
> >
> > ------
> > Really-From: Steven Feldman
> >
> (...)
> >
> > Oh brother. Can you say 'Jim and Pablo'? :( ;) There are already
> > 12 B5 CDs. Aren't those enough? ;)
> >
> (...)
> >
> > -- Steven Feldman
>
> 12??? WHen were the last 5 released? Dan, are you letting me down ??
> ;-)
>
> C.B. Vincent Goudreault
> online since early 93, TD fan since 77
> first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet
There are 8 B5 CD's available. I think steve was being sarcastic. They
are:
Vol 1
Vol 2
5-episode discs
1 enhanced CD in the PC game (contains 2 unreleased tracks)
That's all folks....the next 5 are being produced as we speak.
Dano
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 2:59
am
Subject: unsubscribe tadream
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Really-From: NEMO1876@P...
unsubscribe tadream-digest
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Absurd to Complain in a Public Forum?
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:53:08 -0500
>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
>Subject: Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
>Really-From: Rich Maggio
>
>OK, I feel the need to speak up here. The last I heard, these mailing
>lists are a PUBLIC forum. How did you not know that Archie wasn't a
>subscriber to this mailing list, or that someone he knows is on it?
I assumed he was not subscribed to the list because I have been
subscribed to this list for seven years and have never heard a peep out
of him here. As for 'somebody he knows' being on it, Ash is the only
one--unless you count his various customers as being people he knows.
>I think it is absurd to complain that your comments were forwarded to
>Archie. [. . .]
By *that* token, I guess it would be 'absurd to complain' if I
forwarded some of the talk that goes on here re bootlegging to say, the
administrator of the TDI website, the FBI, Virgin, Miramar, Sequel, etc.
ad nauseum. Not! See my point? Ever hear of the information overload?
Knowledge is relative. No one has the time and desire to know everything
about everything. I mean, how many of us actually read each and every
posting to this list, even?
So-called exposes of government duplicity, conspiracy, and various
wrongdoing are posted to web sites on a daily basis. Every now and then,
there is actually truth to them, but considering the erroneous nature of
90% of what is usually posted to such sites, it is all too easy to lose
the kernels of truth amid the oceans of witless blather. Do you think
the FBI, the CIA, NSA, or whomever gives a rat's ass if someone somewhere
accidentally stumbles on the truth now and then? No. In the context
that it is given, 'the people who count' won't ever find out. So, there
is a case of no one getting in trouble because no one of consequence
hears of the scuttlebutt, no one of consequence believes it, no one of
consequence runs with it (i.e. prints it or broadcasts it), and no one of
consequence acts on it in any way that rocks the boat significantly.
>[. . .] If you have a perfectly valid point (which I am sure you do)
>and stand by it, so what if he found out about it?!?
Who says it's valid? Who says I stand by it? I was pissed off. I
was venting. Call it a crime of passion. ;)
I didn't want him to find out about it because I knew full well that
I would require his services as a merchant of otherwise unobtaintable
import items sometime or other sooner or later.
>I had a bad experience with an online CD company and I sent a
>message to this list detailing my experience. I didn't care if
>they found out - I copied them on the message!!! [. . . ]
Well, good for you. Sometimes, it is prudent to do so, and
sometimes it is not.
>[. . .] And even if I didn't copy them on it, I would have assumed that
>they would have received a copy since I was making my statement in a
>public forum.
You assumed wrong. The subway station is a public forum. Lots of
things are said there. How much of it do *you* listen to? (I live in
Boston, where there is a very lively and much-used subway system.) And
there are some 50 channels on any given cable system. How often do you
watch the Home Shopping Network or the Travel Channel? If something
relevant to your existence was said there, would you assume that you
would hear (of it) because it was a 'public forum'?
>If 'retribution' is a concern, then the comments should not have been
>made in a public forum. Period.
Bull's pizzle.
>Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 21:09:02 -0600
>From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
>Subject: Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
>Really-From: David Datta
>
[. . .]
>Well, I think you are completely wrong here. What makes you think that
>Archie is not on the list [. . .]
Call it a safe guess.
>[. . .] or doesn't regularly get postings that relate to him via list
>archives? [. . .]
Now, *that* I didn't think of. Still, I consider it unlikely--even
*now*.
>[. . .] If he was on the list, would you have posted the complaint?
No.
>[. . .]Did you bother to check if he is here? All messages
>posted to the mailing list here are archived via several archiving
>engines that are publically searchable.
When Aleister Crowley divulged some of the high secrets of his
mackigal lodge in some of his published writings, the highmost members
of said lodges balked. Crowley's response was, 'Why bother to hide them?
Those who aren't advanced enough to understand, won't.' By the same
token, who would bother to scan a mailing list for something so petty?
I'm quite sure Archie has better things to do. No offence, Dave, but I
don't think Archie likes TD enough, gives a rat's rump about this little
flamewar enough, or has time enough to waste wading through website
after website to zero in on the handful of postings that might tell him
anything he really wants to know.
>Once you post to this list, your mail is PUBLIC, it can be copied to
>ANYONE by ANYONE. [. . .]
That's all well and good in theory, but in real life . . . gimmee
a break. Big Brother might be just over the horizon, but he's not here
right now, breathing down my neck, waiting for me to incriminate myself
so I can be carted off to Siberia. This is America--land of the blase,
where nothing shocks anybody anymore, where 15 year olds pierce their
eyebrows and tongues, where college students pierce their naughty bits.
>[. . .] There is no implied privacy on this list. If you don't want
>someone to see what you have to say, think before you post it and don't
>post it here if you want it kept from someone.
I didn't think (yeah, quote *that* one out of context) anyone would
do what Ash did. True, it is always possible that someone would do so,
but it seemed highly unlikely. I was wrong. I have to be sooner or
later. ;)
>It doesn't matter if you have good or bad things to say about
>something, when you say it here, it will be archived, it will be sent
>to people you know and people you don't know. You cannot complain about
>lack of privacy when posting to a public forum.
Maybe, but I can complain about it if and when someone makes it
their duty to make things hard for a subscriber to the list (rather than
the rest of the world 'out there' who don't otherwise have anything to
do with anything here) in service of some party outside the list rather
than within it.
To put this theory of special interest groups being 'public forums'
in perspective, would anyone hold it against me if I posted commentary
re bootlegging from say, the TD list, the Jean-Michel Jarre list, the
Kraftwerk List, the Vangelis list, and the Mike Oldfield list to the
artists' respective record labels? My guess is that it wouldn't do too
much harm since these bands are small potatoes and don't sell that many
copies of anything to begin with. But what if I forwarded bootleg-
related specifica to the record labels of such pop acts as REM, U2,
Whitney Houston, Madonna, or suchlike? Would anyone on mailing lists
devoted to those artists dole out platitudes about the nature of public
forums and the freedom of information in defence of my having forwarded
what I forwarded? Get off your high horse and get real; political
correctness is only that: political.
-- Steven Feldman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe
that unidentified flying objects are nonsense. To hide the facts the Air
Force has silenced it personnel.' --Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, the
1st director of the CIA, quoted in THE NEW YORK TIMES, February 28, 1960.
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Re: Absurd to Complain in a Public Forum?
DAVENTURA
Mon
3/16/1998
3 KB
12083
Re: Absurd to Complain in a Public Forum?
David Datta
Tue
3/17/1998
6 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: There Are Only 8 B5 CDs, So Far
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:12:05 -0800
>Subject: Re: B5
>To: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: DJS
>
>There are 8 B5 CD's available. I think steve was being sarcastic. They
>are:
>
>Vol 1
>Vol 2
>5-episode discs
>1 enhanced CD in the PC game (contains 2 unreleased tracks)
I made a mistake. (See the following re-post.) With all those '5's,
I mistakenly thought that the set of 5 episode CDs was being followed-up
by another set of 5. Now, according, to Dan, there 'will' be another
set of 5--but from SuperCollector, not from Sonic Images. Sorry about
that.
-- Steven Feldman
+ + + + + + +
Subject: Limited Release Babylon 5 CD
From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:44:10 -0500
Really-From: Jim Moore
He's done it again:
Included in the new Babylon 5 Encyclopedia CD-ROM, there is
an enhanced CD entitled 'The Best of Babylon 5' by Chris
Franke... Supposedly, it is a limited edition kind of thing...
- jim
'Moving out... from the City of Love... to the Valley
of Reason...' -- Dream Academy: 'The Lession of Love'
'jimbo@v...' is Jim Moore, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Home Page: http://www2.vivid.net/~jimbo
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Tue
3/17/1998
4 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 6:08
pm
Subject: Re: My email address is changing!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>While listening to Fort Worth Runway One on headphones the other day I
>noticed a 'click' at 1.49/1.50 into the track that sounds like it
>shouldn't be there! Anyone else notice this?
>
>Regards,
>
>Conrad Gibbons
>
>
I noticed the same thing ; moreover, it is a digibox and not a crystal box.
Fred
np : 'Cosmic Energy' (from 'Oasis' by Kitaro) : it is the only track I
really like from Kitaro.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 10:31
pm
Subject: Re: Absurd to Complain in a Public Forum?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DAVENTURA
I'd like to put in my two cents on this topic, but why bother...I know it's
only Monday, but I have to get ready for the show on Wednesday...Projeckt 2..
A King Crimson Projeckt with Robert Fripp, Adrain Belew and Trey Gunn, at what
is now called The Majestic Ventura Theatre...Wish you all could come...David
I just love when Steve gets off on a rant.
n.p. Thomas Dolby...The Golden Age of Wireless (did you know that Dolby's main
controller used to be TD's light controller?)
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 10:33
pm
Subject: #tadream MIRC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: KRAUSENECKS
Hi guys,
Anyone got any info on how to find the tadream site. I loaded MIRC and see
all the channels, but most of them are crap sex chat garbage, where do I find
the tad site?
Chris
NP-Danzig 'Black Aria' best ST that never existed , should have used this in
Prophecy 2 instead of the ten second cameo he gave us.
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Re: #tadream MIRC
Gabe Yedid
Mon
3/16/1998
2 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 10:56
pm
Subject: Re: #tadream MIRC
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DAVENTURA
In the mIRC channels folder type #tadream then click on add...hope that
helps....David
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 11:26
pm
Subject: Re: #tadream MIRC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: KRAUSENECKS
>
>
> Hi guys,
> Anyone got any info on how to find the tadream site. I loaded MIRC and
see all the channels, but most of them are crap sex chat garbage, where do I
find the tad site?
Connect to any EFNet server and just 'join #tadream'!
Gabe
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Steven Feldman
Hey Guys 'n' Gal(?--only one?),
Since folks here think that this mailing list is a public forum
and that forwarding things from one place to another is not a problem,
here's a little bit of off-topic information. By the way, when is an
off-topic thread not an off-topic thread . . . but a spam? ;)
If *this* stuff doesn't make your jaw drop, nothing will. And
here you thought I was a tad off the _beam_ (zounds! that's a presently
ongoing thread) with THE KEEP (well, that one is *sorta* on topic) and
RISKY BUSINESS? ;) I don't just have *Tangerine Dream* on the brain,
you know.
-- Steven Feldman
+ + + + + + +
-------------------------forwarded message------------------------------------
Subject: CNI News Vol. 4, No. 1, Part 2 and Vol. 4, No. 2, Part 2
CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO phenomena,
claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including
the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI
News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group.
CNI News is a subscription newsletter. First-time recipients may receive two
free issues before subscribing. For more information on how to subscribe,
please see the notice at the end of this issue. Questions and comments may be
addressed to: Editor, CNINews1@a...
The subject matter of CNI News is inherently controversial, and the views and
opinions reported herein are not necessarily those of the editorial staff.
==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++==
CNI News -- Vol. 4, No. 1, Part 2 -- March 1, 1998
Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence
==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++==
FACES OF THE VISITOR -- A CNI NEW SPECIAL REPORT
Part One of Two: The Beginning of the End?
By Michael Lindemann
The modern era of UFO encounters, dating roughly from the end of World War
II, contained from its inception an implicit argument over the character and
motives of 'the visitors.' The earliest military studies of UFOs, undertaken
in secret, were driven in part by a genuine fear of hostile invasion from
space. That fear exploded into popular culture in the early fifties,
epitomized by such films as 'War of the Worlds' and 'Invasion of the Body
Snatchers.' At the same time, while the first generation of serious civilian
ufologists fixated on distant objects in the sky, an odd assortment of
so-called contactees began attracting hordes of followers, some merely
curious but many entranced and adoring, to hear their stories of benevolent,
godlike beings from other worlds.
The gross dichotomy between hostile invaders and benevolent space brothers
might have been expected to fade as decades of research advanced our
understanding of UFO phenomena. But exactly the opposite has happened
instead. Today, the argument over the character and motives of the visitors
is more starkly drawn than ever.
It must of course be acknowledged that another, more fundamental argument
overlays the first -- that is, the argument concerning whether or not UFO
phenomena and alleged 'alien visitation' represent anything otherworldly at
all. But for purposes of this special report, that argument will be set
aside. Here we will assume that 'the visitors' are real, in order to examine
the deeply divided opinions about who 'they' are and what they may be doing
on our planet.
Among the current generation of serious researchers, Temple University
history professor David M. Jacobs, Ph.D., stands out both as a scholar of the
phenomena and as a proponent of the darkest scenario of alien invasion.
Jacobs' concept of the invasion bears no resemblance to the popular six-gun
mythology of 'Independence Day,' where grotesquely tentacled aliens stand in
for Saddam Hussein and heroic American flyboys kick them back to the stone
age. The 'real' invasion -- and for Jacobs it is absolutely real -- is more
terrifying than that, because it is utterly surreptitious yet unstoppable. We
are doomed as a species, Jacobs believes, and we didn't even see it coming.
'The aliens have fooled us,' he writes in his disturbing new book, 'The
Threat: What the Aliens Really Want, and How They Plan to Get It' (Simon &
Schuster, 1998). 'They lulled us into an attitude of disbelief, and hence
complacency, at the very beginning of our awareness of their presence. Thus,
we were unable to understand the dimensions of the threat they pose and act
to intervene. Now it may be too late. My own complacency is gone, replaced by
a sense of profound apprehension and even dread.... Now I fear for the future
of my own children.'
Jacobs is hardly alone in his forebodings. Budd Hopkins, arguably the most
influential abduction researcher on earth, shares Jacobs' view that alien
intruders are quietly engineering a huge population of hybrid beings, mixing
human and alien genetic material toward the end goal of supplanting
present-day humanity with an 'improved' race answerable to the aliens'
designs for planet earth.
As Jacobs sees it, 'It is now possible to discern at least four specific
programs that the aliens have put into effect to achieve their goal:
'1) The Abduction Program: The aliens initially selected human victims around
the world and instituted procedures to take these humans and their progeny
from their environments without detection.
'2) The Breeding Program: The aliens collect human sperm and eggs,
genetically alter the fertilized embryo, incubate fetuses in human hosts, and
make humans mentally and physically interact with the offspring for proper
hybrid development.
'3) The Hybridization Program: The aliens refine the hybrids by continual
alteration and breeding with humans over the generations to become more human
while retaining crucial alien characteristics. Perhaps humans are also
altered over time and acquire alien characteristics.
'4) The Integration Program: The aliens prepare the abductees for future
events. Eventually, the hybrids or the aliens themselves integrate into human
society and assume control.'
Jacobs believes we are well into the end-game in this grand and malevolent
strategy. While unsure of the exact timing of the takeover, he reports:
'Many abductees feel that 'something is going to happen' soon and that the
aliens have their goal within sight.... The indications are that this could
mean from within the next five years to within the next two generations.'
And lest one harbor any hope for fair treatment under the new regime, Jacobs
spells out the likely fate of the majority non-abductee population of
earthlings. Among abductees he has personally worked with, Jacobs says, some
are told 'that nonabductees will be kept as a small breeding population in
case the hybridization program has unforeseen problems. [Others are] led to
believe that nonabductees are expendable. The evidence seems to suggest that
the future will be played out primarily with aliens, hybrids and abductees.
The nonabductees will have an inferior role, if any at all. The new order
will be insectlike aliens in control, followed by other aliens, hybrids,
abductees, and finally, nonabductees.'
By 'insectlike aliens,' Jacobs refers to tall greys with mantis-like
features, as have been often described in abduction literature. In 'The
Threat,' Jacobs refers to other types of aliens as well, including smaller
greys, grey-type beings with differing skin tones, 'Nordics' and
'reptilians.' He suspects that the often-reported Nordic or distinctly
human-looking aliens are actually hybrids created by the tall greys. He
admits some uncertainty regarding reptilians and other exotic,
less-frequently reported types. But he leaves no doubt that the insectlike
tall greys are in charge of the changes underway on earth.
Though Jacobs' research is meticulous and passionately reported, his
conclusions are disputed by many other voices in the UFO community.
Jim Marrs, author of 'Alien Agenda,' concedes that human evolution may have
been manipulated by aliens more than once, but he doesn't believe in a
malevolent invasion.
'I take a more positive attitude,' he told CNI News in a recent interview.
'If there were alien races out there who wanted to come and somehow enslave
this world, particularly in an overt fashion, I think they would have done it
long before now. The historical record shows that this alien presence has
been here since before the recorded history of mankind. Surely they wouldn't
have waited until we've got the capability of going off planet, laser
weaponry and so forth. I don't see any reason to get overly fearful at this
point.'
Special effects artist Steve Neill, a life-long abductee whose graphic
depictions of grey aliens and abduction scenarios have been featured in
numerous television shows, says he can understand Jacobs' point of view but
thinks something more gradual and positive may be taking place. Speaking with
CNI News, Neill admitted that he's experienced big 'mood swings' about his
encounters, from deep fear and anger on one hand to a kind of giddy euphoria
on the other. Now, he says, he's found a middle position that he's happy
with. In his view, the visitors are certainly manipulating the human race --
but they are simply part of the grand pattern of nature.
'The swings I've been through kind of encapsulate what this is all about --
going from one extreme to the next, and then arriving at the middle,' he
says. 'That's something that everything in the universe tries to do, reach a
balance no matter what. In the end, I don't really view this as good or bad.
I view it as part of what I'm part of, this amazing mechanism of the universe
that makes nature function as it does. Every creature is caught up in some
aspect of it, no matter where you go.'
Asked about Jacobs' view that aliens might be engineering the end of humanity
as we know it, Neill suggested that our current situation may be comparable
to an earlier period of human genetic advancement.
'In a way, Jacobs is right,' Neill said. 'Consider that Neanderthals no
longer exist. That was an extinction. But I'm not in the position to decide
if it's something that should be viewed as evil -- one species developing or
being engineered into another. I think Cro Magnon was an improvement on the
Neanderthal. And I'm starting to believe that what we're looking for as
'hybrid' human beings has already existed for a very long time. There are
numbers of hybrids in our society today, in fact more than we can possibly
imagine. The people who are having these experiences themselves, I feel, may
be sorts of hybrids who have been genetically engineered and altered, going
back generation after generation in their families. I am starting to see
children in this world who are so incredibly brilliant, and have this light
on like no other children I've seen. I've met some of these kids. If it's
what I think it is, it's brilliant, because it will be slipped in so
smoothly, and these kids are so powerful, that they are bound to change the
world.'
Not everyone, of course, can be sanguine about a situation in which
everything we now regard as human is being gradually manipulated into
something else -- even if that something else is 'better' on some cosmic
scale of value.
Other researchers and experiencers hold views greatly different from Jacobs,
Hopkins and even Neill. For these people -- Jacobs refers to them as
'Positives' -- visitors to earth are unambiguously benevolent and have our
physical well-being and spiritual advancement foremost in mind.
Notable among this group are CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer, leading proponent of
human-initiated close encounters or CE-5s; psychologist Richard Boylan,
author of 'Close Extraterrestrial Encounters: Positive Experiences with
Mysterious Visitors'; and Lyssa Royal, author of 'Visitors From Within' and
'Preparing for Contact,' whose writings are primarily the product of
channeling. Such articulators of the 'Positive' outlook generally agree that
extraterrestrial intelligence is widespread, diverse, highly organized (in
the sense of a Galactic Federation or similar cosmic government) and
benevolently active on the earth for the express purpose of assisting
humanity through a time of turmoil and transformation. For the most part,
though not unanimously, they argue that the fearful and negative views of
abduction put forward by David Jacobs and his allies are products of human
misunderstanding, not alien misbehavior. Even the term 'abduction' is
generally dismissed by them as wholly unfair and misleading.
Less well known than Greer or Boylan, but equally representative of this
'Positive' position, is Nancy Malacaria, a New England resident who, with her
husband Jack, claims to have had numerous communications with ET
representatives of a highly organized, earth-based enterprise known simply as
The Project.
Nancy and Jack are the parents of five children, run a successful
rug-cleaning business out of their home, and by all outward appearances are
normal, solid citizens of Norwood, Massachusetts. But on May 12, 1990, their
lives suddenly changed when Jack had an unexpected experience in the garage
of their home. It was the middle of his work day, and he was busy washing a
rug. As Nancy described it in a recent interview with CNI News:
'He kept seeing a bright flash of light. It looked like a mirror reflection
of the sun flashing in through the window. He kept looking up, thinking that
somebody was stepping up to the door. Then there was another bright flash of
light, and this time it stayed lit up. There was a doorway of light, standing
up like a hologram in the middle of the floor -- like you're in a dark room,
and you have a closet light on and you open the closet door and all you can
see is the light, not the frame. It opened, and there was a figure standing
in the doorway, a silhouette. It looked sort of like a man. Of course, my
husband was very afraid. It was between him and the only way out of the
garage. In his mind he heard a man's voice saying to him, 'This image is
scaring you, so I'm going to make it disappear, but I'm still going to talk
to you.' Then the doorway closed up again, just the way it opened.
'As soon as it shut, my husband left the garage. He was very afraid. It was
the only logical thing to do. So he came into the house -- I wasn't home --
and he thought about what happened. His mind was reeling. In about 20
minutes, he went back outside again, because he had left all his equipment on
and he had to finish his work. He peeked in the garage. Everything looked
normal. He realized that all the equipment was still on. He didn't know what
to think -- he wasn't calm enough to think about it. You know, when you're
very upset, you don't think, you just sort of absorb. So he finished working.
'And while he was working, this voice kept talking to him. It was telepathy.
The voice told him, basically, that there are 30 other worlds visiting earth
that are concerned for the ecological state of our planet, and that they were
not going to let man destroy our planet. This was the very first message. It
really is not the whole purpose of their being here, but that was a very
straightforward introduction.'
From that unlikely beginning, Nancy told CNI News, she and her husband found
themselves engaged in a 'furious' series of telepathic, and sometimes
physical, contacts with a wide assortment of beings.
'There were about 100 point blank encounters in the first 18 months, and then
about 100 more in the next two years,' Nancy says. 'We've met many different
people... aliens of different races. We've learned a lot about their
abilities. We learned why aliens visit us, why they don't let people see
them, how it is that people assume they're abducted.'
In time, Nancy says, she and her husband were told of no less than 170
different alien groups currently represented on earth. Most of these groups,
though not all, are formally associated with a highly organized, earth-based
enterprise known as The Project.
'There's one Project for earth. There are other projects, but they're for
other worlds,' Nancy says. 'The Project is the organization of all the
visiting life for that planet. That occurs when the beings on that planet
reach a point in their evolution where they can start to understand other
life.'
Among the many alien groups that Nancy claims to have met are several that
answer to the description and behavior of the so-called greys. She offers a
novel variation on the widely-held idea that the greys are principally
responsible for human abductions, and that they behave as if indifferent to
human rights.
'The greys are working with genetics, and they are creating races. Their
methods are not as advanced as some of the other aliens that visit us. Not
all of our visiting life is working with genetics, but two particular [grey]
races that I know about are. As their technology improves, so will their
methods. In the meantime, their methods prevent them from being able to join
the Project. But some of the Project beings are working with them to help
them improve communications and improve their methods, and they will
eventually join the Project.'
Needless to say, one might wonder how Nancy Malacaria can speak so
matter-of-factly about such outlandish things and expect to be taken
seriously. Yet, Steve Neill speaks with similar self-assurance about aliens
he has met; and although David Jacobs inserts an occasional self-deprecating
admission that his ideas sound absurd, he is just as committed to his dark
views as Nancy is to her own. For purposes of this special report, CNI News
neither endorses nor rejects any such claims, but simply points out that they
all exist as parts of a rich and fractious cultural conversation regarding
alien visitation and what it might portend for the human future.
Nancy Malacaria -- much like Steven Greer, Richard Boylan and Lyssa Royal,
among others -- believes that 'the biggest reason there is so much human
negativity about our visiting life is human nature. It's the way we think and
assume. Where there's very little understanding, we automatically assume the
worst.
'There's really no sensitive way to say this, but [ufology] attracts people
who really don't understand what they're saying, and don't understand the
reputation they're giving our visiting life,' she declares. 'That's one of
the biggest reasons why the aliens don't let people see them, because
everybody would just believe everything they've ever heard, and none of it is
accurate.'
If Nancy Malacaria can be believed, 'The Project' is intended to assist
humankind through its present time of planetary turmoil and bring earth to a
point of readiness to join a wider galactic community. It is a view widely
shared by the 'Positives,' and diametrically opposed to the apocalyptic
visions of David Jacobs, Budd Hopkins and their sympathizers.
'As much as I want to be optimistic, I find little to fuel hope for the
future,' writes David Jacobs. 'In a way, I wish I could be like the
Positives, existing in a naive but happy dreamland, awaiting the coming of
the Benevolent Ones who will engulf us all in love and protection... [but] I
must go where the evidence leads me. I have come to view the alien abduction
phenomenon and its purpose as an asteroid hurtling toward the Earth --
discovered too late for intervention. We can track its progress and yet be
utterly incapable of preventing the collision.'
If alien visitors are really here, do they portend the beginning of the end,
or the beginning of something much grander than humans have ever known
before? Or are both these views too extreme, too dogmatic and too
implausible? What about the great in-between, reported by many experiencers,
where diverse visitors display behavior and motives spanning the entire moral
spectrum? And what about the possibility that the visitors -- some of them,
at least -- are not extraterrestrials at all, but something even stranger?
This special report continues in the next edition of CNI News. Readers can
visit Steve Neill's Dreamland FX web site at http://www.anw.com/dreamlandfx,
and Nancy Malacaria's web site at
http://members.aol.com/earthsistr/2.index.html.
==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++==
CNI News -- Vol. 4, No. 2, Part 2 -- March 16, 1998
Global News on Contact with Non-human Intelligence
===++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++==
FACES OF THE VISITOR -- A CNI NEWS SPECIAL REPORT
Part Two of Two: Stranger Than Fiction
By Michael Lindemann
[This is the concluding part of a two part series begun in the March 1, 1998
issue of CNI News. Thanks to hypnotherapist Deborah Lindemann for conducting
and transcribing the interview with Katharina Wilson quoted below, and for
assistance with the Steve Neill interview quoted in part one of this report.
Thanks also to Leslie at PEER for her assistance.]
Newsman Phillip H. Krapf worked for 25 years as a copy editor for the Los
Angeles Times metro division, sharing in a Pulitzer Prize the Times won for
its coverage of the 1992 Los Angeles riots. Krapf took early retirement in
1993 and was enjoying an eminently ordinary life in Ventura, California until
the evening of June 10, 1997. That night, he says, he got abducted by aliens.
Krapf tells his remarkable story in a new book from Hay House called 'The
Contact Has Begun.' In the book, Krapf says he was teleported right out of his
bedroom by a blue beam and taken aboard a huge mothership that orbits in the
vicinity of the moon.
The ship is piloted by beings he calls Verdants. They originate on a planet in
another galaxy. Their spacecraft are so advanced that they can travel anywhere
in the universe. They are by no means the only extraterrestrials out there --
there are thousands of other intelligent races, they told Krapf -- but the
Verdants are currently the most numerous.
Krapf says he remained conscious throughout three full days on board the
Verdant ship, except for normal periods of sleep. In this respect, he says, he
was treated very differently from scores of other humans he saw the very
moment he arrived. These people were laid out on row upon row of tables in a
huge gymnasium-sized room, all unconscious and attended to by one or more
Verdants. Krapf says he was told that the Verdants had been engaged for many
years in the process that humans call abduction. These people on the tables --
ordinary abductees -- were being inspected medically. None of them were ever
harmed. Most of them would remember nothing. Moreover, Krapf was told, the
time for this kind of abduction is at an end. Very soon, it will stop
completely.
Abduction was never about procreation or the making of hybrids, the Verdants
told Krapf. It was simply about studying the human species in every possible
way. Now the Verdants know everything there is to know about humans -- vastly
more than humans know -- so there's no more need for study.
Instead, it is now time to prepare the human race for admission into the
Intergalactic Federation of Sovereign Planets. Krapf was abducted, wide awake,
because the Verdants wanted to give him a detailed briefing and a modest
assignment in the overall program of preparation. His book, 'The Contact Has
Begun,' is the fulfillment of his assignment, he says.
According to Krapf, the Verdants don't have huge black eyes like the better-
known 'Grays' usually associated with abduction. Also unlike the Grays, the
Verdants talk out loud (Grays are said to employ telepathy); they eat and
enjoy food in human fashion (Grays are usually said to lack a human-type
digestive system); and they engage in sex for pleasure and bear children like
humans (Grays seem indifferent to pleasure and may have lost the ability to
procreate).
In an interview with CNI News on March 3, Krapf insisted that his story is
completely true to the best of his understanding. No one, he says, could be
more surprised than himself. He professes no prior knowledge of, nor interest
in, the abduction phenomenon. He says he had been indifferent to UFO stories
his whole life and had happily bought the party line at the Los Angeles Times
that people who see UFOs are either nuts or lying. Moreover, he had always
been a religious agnostic, tending toward atheism. Suddenly, in June 1997, all
that changed.
With no exposure to abduction claims other than what little he had seen on
late night TV, Phillip Krapf neither knows nor cares how his story compares
with tales told by other experiencers. He claims to have been so impressed by
the qualities of the Verdants -- including patience, kindness, vast knowledge
and spiritual wisdom, as well as superlative technical abilities -- that it
never occurred to him to doubt the literal truth of everything he experienced
and was told.
Of all the things Krapf learned during his three day adventure, nothing could
compare with the revelation that the human soul is eternal and God exists.
Krapf the agnostic says that these assurances, given him by the Verdants, left
him utterly dumbfounded. But he says he now believes them completely.
To any person familiar with other renderings of the abduction/contact
experience, one of the most peculiar features of Phillip Krapf's account is
its absolute physicality. Everything about the Verdants, their ship and their
mission seems material and three-dimensional. So physical is their universe of
experience that even heaven is described as a physical location. They have
been there, the Verdants tell Krapf. Why, you can plot it on a chart.
Temple University historian David Jacobs, in his recent book 'The Threat,'
paints a picture of contact with aliens that is horrifyingly bleak compared
with Krapf's cheerful tale. But Jacobs' aliens are also described as physical
creatures. They are apparently bonafide extraterrestrials from other planets
in our galaxy, he says. His reports from over 100 abduction subjects include a
wide assortment of strange details, but these can be attributed, he says,
either to very advanced technology (indistinguishable from magic, in Arthur C.
Clarke's terms) or to manipulation of the abductee's mind.
Jacobs' aliens do practice telepathy, though. And they do walk through walls.
They are considerably stranger, by human standards, than Krapf's Verdants.
Jacques Vallee is the most influential UFO researcher to insist that the idea
of merely physical ETs from other planets is patently absurd. He has suggested
instead that UFOs and their occupants might be interdimensional entities. He
also observed that UFOs seem to function in the role of a 'control system,'
having a profound but always inscrutable and subliminal influence upon the
development of human consciousness and culture throughout history.
Despite this theoretical control function, however, Vallee regards claims of
aliens in UFOs repeatedly abducting thousands or millions of people as simply
hilarious. Needless to say, Vallee has been criticized for this heresy by
leading abduction researchers, especially Budd Hopkins -- so much so, in fact,
that Vallee finally withdrew from ufology altogether, after darkly warning
that UFO research seems doomed to perpetual irrelevance by its inherent
silliness and lack of intellectual rigor.
Vallee did not, however, deny that abductions take place. He recognizes that
they really do, although perhaps less often than popularly believed. It is the
mechanism of abduction that other researchers have wrong, Vallee says. Real
abduction is probably perpetrated by humans, not aliens. As described in
Vallee's recent novel 'Fastwalker' (Frog Ltd, 1996), abduction may be part of
some terrible and desperate political agenda, employing a grotesque caricature
of real UFO contact to instill a useful brand of fear in average, dull-witted
humans.
Meanwhile, Vallee says, the real aliens are far stranger than we can possibly
imagine -- not ETs at all, but interdimensional chimeras -- unknowable, out of
reach, and essentially indifferent to petty human dramas on planet earth.
UFO investigator Bob Pratt feels quite comfortable with Vallee's thesis, and
Vallee rewarded Pratt's good judgment by writing a glowing foreword to Pratt's
1996 book, 'UFO Danger Zone: Terror and Death in Brazil' (Horus House Press).
'This is field research as it should be done,' Vallee said, 'and we can only
deplore the fact that [Pratt's] work has not been repeated in other parts of
the world.'
But if Pratt's UFOs are interdimensional, as he says in the end, they
certainly have a startling way of intruding into the physical plane on earth.
For Pratt's book, as its title implies, is a positively numbing litany of
horrors, meticulously researched by himself and a host of Brazilian colleagues
over a period of some fifteen years. Pratt's subjects are mostly poor rural
Brazilians -- fishermen, farmers, subsistance laborers. These are people who
watch little or no TV; many cannot read. These people tell stories of
intruders who rain down terror from the sky.
Pratt tells of people being paralyzed and lifted off the ground by beams of
light; of having their health instantly destroyed by a chance encounter in the
woods or along a rural road; of being set ablaze and burned to death. There
are dozens of cases, many with multiple witnesses. None have a happy ending,
and none make any discernible sense. Why are these people brutally attacked,
and by whom? There is no answer. But the terror and the broken bodies say
there is truth in the accounts.
Dr. Stephen Greer, founding director of CSETI, has theorized like Vallee that
abduction cases, if they really occur, are perpetrated by humans intent on
giving aliens a bad name. At the same time, Greer speaks of genuine
extraterrestrials -- people from other planets -- who are coming here to make
contact with right-minded humans. It's part of a grand process of global
transformation, Greer says. Extraterrestrials stand ready to assist human
society in rising to a higher spiritual level conducive to wider and more open
contact with other intelligent races.
In that belief, Greer is hardly alone. Phillip Krapf agrees completely. So, in
effect, does Nancy Malacaria, who told CNI News in a recent interview that
some 170 different extraterrestrial races are currently active on earth,
variously involved in what she calls 'The Project,' all aimed at assisting
humanity through the present time of turmoil and transformation.
Nancy's extraterrestrials seem mostly physical, too. But, she says, 'my
understanding is that they use dimensional technologies to travel with and to
conceal themselves... We've been told that other dimensions have other values
of time, and that's why they use them for travel. They also use [dimensional
technologies] so that they can work here and not disturb us, unless they want
us to see them.'
Whether abduction is perceived as horrifying or not is a matter of human
consciousness, Nancy insists. The beings who abduct humans -- she agrees that
they answer to the description of the so-called Grays -- do not intend any
harm.
'They're desperately trying to be understood,' she says. 'The grays that
you're referring to are working with genetics, and they are creating races.
Their methods are not as advanced as some of the other aliens that visit us.
But they do work with the Project. Some of the Project beings are working with
them to help them improve communications and improve their methods.'
Raymond Fowler has chronicled the lifelong abduction history of Betty
Andreasson-Luca and her family for nearly twenty years. When he first wrote
about her case in 'The Andreasson Affair,' Fowler described a classic alien
abduction scenario in terms that have since been repeated countless times by
other researchers. But in the intervening years, Fowler's own views have
evolved enormously, along with Betty's.
In the fifth and final volume of his Andreasson study, 'The Andreasson Legacy'
(Marlowe, 1997), Fowler emphasizes repeatedly that abduction is a
'paraphysical phenomenon.' Its UFO component is physical in that it leaves
ground traces, shows up on film, disrupts electrical systems. Its contact
component is physical in the sense that abductees are (sometimes) physically
missing during an abduction event, and often come back with body scars such as
scoop marks related to physical procedures. Fowler surmises that some
abductees probably have physical alien implants.
But abduction is simultaneously paranormal or metaphysical in the sense that
it can occur as an out of body experience and often includes psychical
elements such as telepathy, teleportation and time distortion. It is very
definitely concerned with human reproduction and the creation of hybrid
creatures; but it is just as definitely concerned with the human soul and the
ultimately spiritual nature of humanity and reality. It is the furthest thing
from absurd or disorderly. It is undeniably and definitely purposeful.
And there is teaching involved, Fowler insists. Abductees are given urgent
messages about the perilous state of our world and the changes ahead for
humanity.
David Jacobs has heard all this from his abduction subjects, too. He agrees
that they are given powerful images and messages about the environmental
crisis on earth, or the peril of nuclear war, or terrible changes to come. But
Jacobs thinks the aliens don't really care about any of that. They are not
interested in preserving the earth for humanity's sake. They're intent on
taking over.
Katharina Wilson, another lifelong abductee who has written eloquently of her
own experiences in 'The Alien Jigsaw' (Puzzle Publishing, 1993), has heard it
all too, first-hand.
In a recent interview with hypnotherapist Deborah Lindemann, Katharina Wilson
said that she, like Jacobs, thinks the aliens can induce powerful images in
the human mind for purposes of deception or manipulation.
'My experiences and visions I'm shown with aliens, even the ones that appear
very human-like, seem to involve a level of manipulation,' she says. 'The
aliens are interested in how we react to the information in the vision, or
they use the vision for distraction or screen memory purposes.'
Wilson has had her share of alien sexual procedures and similar horrors. She
doesn't trust their motives at all.
But Wilson also makes an important distinction between alien abductors and
other entities that she calls 'super-conscious beings.' These beings have
shown her powerful images too, but the experience seemed different.
'I remembered everything consciously the next morning. It was so unbelievably
intense,' she told Deborah Lindemann. 'What they were showing me was that
thoughts are things, and that what you think and believe, you will create.
They took me through my neighborhood and showed me, using visual imagery.'
The beings seemed angelic, Wilson says. 'I saw them come down out of the sky
on this golden rope, four of them, the most beautiful feminine little angels.
They were just super intelligences. A piece of the golden rope touched me, and
[it] was like I was sitting in the lap of God, just the most unbelievable
positive experience... But they wanted to get on with what they had come to
teach me and show me.'
Though Wilson uses the term 'angel,' she's not sure if that's appropriate.
'I'm cautious about how I categorize these experiences, because I have a
responsibility as a reporter of this phenomenon. If these SCBs (super
conscious beings) really are just another form of aliens, I don't want to
mislead people,' she says.
Asked to further describe how the experience of SCBs differs from her other
encounters, Wilson said, 'They don't experiment on me or treat me like a lab
animal. I don't get the feeling they are manipulating me. I realize they show
me visions of the future and I know the aliens do this too. But I just sense a
caring and a deep love and concern that is totally different than my
experiences with the aliens. I realize that the aliens can look into your eyes
and make you feel a whole array of wonderful things. But these SCB's don't
look into my eyes or force their will on me like the other beings do.'
On one occasion, Wilson says, 'I was shown an important vision about a missile
that the U.S. had launched into space.The launching of this missile would
change the course of human history. I knew the implications.'
Another visit by an SCB occurred the night her beloved 18-year-old cat died.
'My animals are very important to me. Over the past year, I had had to give
him a lot of care and nurturing. The SCBs visited and said: 'It takes a lot of
preparation to enter the white light.' To me they were talking about [my cat]
crossing over.'
Given the incredible diversity of reported human experiences with alleged
visitors, is it possible to say who or what we are dealing with? Perhaps the
closest we can get to the truth is an idea that confounds and infuriates
literalists everywhere: the nature of the visitors is in the eye of the
beholder. They are real, but their perceived character is dependent upon the
quality of individual perception.
Dr. John Mack, Harvard psychiatrist, is one researcher who has arrived at this
conclusion. Perhaps for this reason, he is regarded with suspicion by those
who insist upon a hard-edged, literal interpretation of the visitor
experience.
Mack responded to an inquiry from CNI News by sending a summary of his
viewpoint, distilled from the scores of abduction cases he has personally
investigated. Excerpts from that statement follow.
Mack begins by agreeing with David Jacobs that 'the human/alien sexual and
reproductive process, which the abductees with whom I work report in
excruciating detail, appears to result in the creation of a hybrid race that
will some day come 'down' to earth. For experiencers, this hybrid 'project' is
altogether real and does not appear to me to be the product of delusion or
other mental aberration.'
That said, however, Mack points out problems with the 'literalist, entirely
material, interpretation' of alien encounter. 'Most obvious is the absence of
solid evidence of actual pregnancy, genetic changes or the physical existence
of the hybrids themselves. But that is only the beginning,' he writes. 'Some
abductees perceive this process as occurring in another realm or dimension
with different space/time qualities and possessing what they often describe as
a higher vibrational frequency. Sometimes they themselves notice that they are
in a different state of consciousness, as if between sleeping and waking, and
that the images and events around them seem 'fuzzy.' One experiencer, quite
sophisticated in matters of energy and consciousness, interpreted an important
sexual/ impregnation encounter in metaphoric, consciousness-evolving, even
spiritual terms.
'The apparent problems for the hybrids of survival on earth, which abductees
consistently perceive, may in themselves reflect the ontological 'otherness'
of this whole 'project.' At the very least, the manifestation of such beings
on the earth plane would require elements of a physics and biology that are
now unknown to us. One may argue that it is a matter of research, of
collecting more or better evidence to document the physical reality of all
this, and that the main obstacle is that the aliens are so deceptive, subtle
or furtive. But it may not be simply a matter of physical evidence.
'The fundamental difficulty may be more one of philosophy, consciousness and
method. The matter may be more mysterious than we appreciate, requiring
different ways of knowing or thinking about it.
'For instance, the hybrid project might be thought of as a reflection not so
much of biological procreation or colonization [as] of an evolution of
consciousness. But in order to consider this, we would need to put aside or
overcome the radical split between mind or spirit and matter, or between the
visible and invisible worlds, that have dominated both Judeo-Christian
tradition and Western science. If we could allow the possibility of an
interpenetration of consciousness and matter, or even that physical images or
the physical world itself could be a manifestation of consciousness or spirit,
then the apparent and sometimes real physicality of the alien-human sexual and
reproductive process could be seen as the expression in concrete, physical
form of what may be a cosmic energy or intelligence, responding to a problem
-- in this case, the evident threat to earth's life forms that is the result
of human blindness and destructiveness.
'This is not to say that the aliens or hybrids are not entirely real. Rather,
I would argue that the process might be occurring largely in another realm,
one with a different vibrational frequency, a kind of in-between domain -- not
pure formless spirit or dense matter -- which, under certain circumstances,
can penetrate our world, and be perceived with such vividness as to bring
intense experiential conviction and even subtle physical manifestations for
abductees... To some degree, then, the nature or quality of the hybrid project
may reside in the eyes or co-creative consciousness of the beholders.
'If we think of the phenomenon this way, and not simply in terms of whether it
is good or bad for the human species, we may see it as less threatening. We
might then learn from it about our evolving relationship to the earth, to the
unseen intelligence or intelligences of our cosmos, and, ultimately, about our
own evolving psychological and spiritual existence and identity.'
CNI News recognizes that, for some experiencers and researchers, the
subtleties of Mack's view are beside the point, because it's already clear
that the earth is being invaded by alien forces who can bring an end to human
life. Yet, others insist that the visitors bring benevolent warnings, offers
of spiritual counsel, even invitations to membership in a cosmic Federation.
Meanwhile, for some, the visitor experience is as physical as driving in a
car; while for others, the experience resides in a realm of dreams and
shadows, speaking less to the body than to the soul, less to time than to
eternity.
Can 'an answer' be distilled from all these diverse and passionate
impressions? Not yet, says John Mack. 'At the very least, we should admit that
we do not ultimately know what [alien encounter] means or whence it comes, and
that we are only beginning to penetrate its depths,' he writes -- and here at
CNI News, we concur.
With heartfelt thanks to all those who have contributed to our present
understanding, we encourage our readers to continue the quest.
[Dr. David Jacobs can be emailed at DJACOBS@V... Katharina Wilson's
web site is http://www.alienjigsaw.com. Phillip Krapf's email is
phoward@e... Nancy Malacaria's web site is
http://members.aol.com/earthsistr/2.index.html. Dr. John Mack can be reached
by emailing LeslPEER@a... Dr. Mack's next book on further research into
the alien abduction phenomenon will be published by Crown Publishing in Spring
1999.]
==+++===+++===+++=== CLOSING NOTES ===+++===+++===+++==
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==+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++===+++==
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# # #
Replies
Name/Email
Yahoo! ID
Date
Size
12069
Eurock/Feldman/etc
Steve McCready
Tue
3/17/1998
4 KB
12072
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Brian E. Kirby
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
12073
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Tue
3/17/1998
2 KB
12074
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
12075
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
12078
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
DJS
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
12079
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Greg Heil
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
12091
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Tue
3/17/1998
4 KB
12100
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Brian E. Kirby
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 9:47
am
Subject: Eurock/Feldman/etc
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: sbm@p... (Steve McCready)
Like Rich Maggio, I don't say a whole lot here. I do find the great
majority of what Rich says to be worth reading, though, so I'm
delurking to second his views on this recent little tiff...
(Quotes below are from Steven Feldman)
>By *that* token, I guess it would be 'absurd to complain' if I
>forwarded some of the talk that goes on here re bootlegging to say, the
>administrator of the TDI website, the FBI, Virgin, Miramar, Sequel, etc.
>ad nauseum. Not! See my point?
I think it >would< be a bit absurd to complain. This isn't some
secret cult group we've got going here. Anyone with e-mail and half a
brain can 'listen in'. If you think that anything you say here is
private, you're wrong. While it wouldn't exactly be admirable
behavior to go telling someone 'oh, you know what I heard about you on
this mailing list?', it's a mistake to assume it won't happen. Would
you tell a room full of a couple hundred e-music fans what you thought
about Eurock's service and then expect nobody to take that information
any further? I'd say that's essentially what you've done.
> I didn't want him to find out about it because I knew full well that
>I would require his services as a merchant of otherwise unobtaintable
>import items sometime or other sooner or later.
Then you shouldn't have said it here.
> Since folks here think that this mailing list is a public forum
>and that forwarding things from one place to another is not a problem,
>here's a little bit of off-topic information.
Um, somehow I don't think that 'public forum' = 'general discussion
forum'. Nice try.
-Steve
sbm@p...
Sacramento, CA
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 3:04
am
Subject: Re: The Beam
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: 'Craig Shipley'
>
> The Beam is not a Theremin.
^^^^^^^^^^
Take 2 Theremin twice a day for your headache, haha......
> Wayyy back in the early '80's, there was a
> rather exotic stringed device that (I think) Michael Sterns played quite
a
> bit. If memory serves, it was an 18-foot long aluminum (titanium? Naah,
> would be way too expensive! 'Strategic material'.) beam with 'X' number
of
> metal wires, strung from end to end. It was played kinda like the way
that
> you would play a steel guitar. I don't remember this all that well, so I
> could have a few of the details screwed up, corrections welcomed. CD's
that
> I remember having The Beam on them were by Kitaro, Michael Sterns and
Craig
> Huxley (he was the guy that played the kid on the original 'Lost In
Space';
> the CD was a waste of polycarbonate, to put it nicely...)
The Beam also made on appearance on Steve Roach's CD, EMPETUS. If memory
serves correctly, in a late 80s visit to Steve Roach's then-California
based studio, Elana has even struck a note or two off The Beam. It makes a
killer sound, like
*TRRRRRRRREREREREREOOOOUUUUUWWWWWRRRRRRRR*
or something like that.
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 3:06
am
Subject: Off-topic: Projekt 2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: DAVENTURA
>
>
> I'd like to put in my two cents on this topic, but why bother...I know
it's
> only Monday, but I have to get ready for the show on Wednesday...Projeckt
2..
Shit, and I *was* going to go to that, too. Too bad it's f**king finals
week.
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 16, 1998 11:36
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Brian E. Kirby'
> CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO phenomena,
> claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues, including
> the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent life. CNI
> News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group.
(mucho on UFOs clipped)
Uh, Steve? You're starting to scare me.
-B. Kirby
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 4:37
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Gabe Yedid
Good God Steve, I can't believe you subscribe to this stuff.
I think these folks have simply been watching too much X-Files.
Gabe
who believes in life elsewhere, but doesn't think we are ready to, (or
worthy of) meet(ing) it yet.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 4:48
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
> If *this* stuff doesn't make your jaw drop, nothing will. And
> here you thought I was a tad off the _beam_ (zounds! that's a presently
> ongoing thread) with THE KEEP (well, that one is *sorta* on topic) and
> RISKY BUSINESS? ;) I don't just have *Tangerine Dream* on the brain,
> you know.
Shooooo-weeeee! Do I feel sorry for the *digest* people. I knew you were
capable of Old Testament-length posts, but this time you've got the Bible
complete with both Testaments and the {Catholic} Apocrypha. Sheesh, it
takes 8.9 seconds to scroll through the post with the mouse button held
down, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 4:54
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: 'Brian E. Kirby'
>
> > CNI News is a twice-monthly electronic newsletter addressing UFO
phenomena,
> > claims of human-alien contact, space exploration and related issues,
including
> > the cultural and political impacts of contact with other intelligent
life. CNI
> > News is edited by Michael Lindemann and distributed by the 2020 Group.
>
> (mucho on UFOs clipped)
>
> Uh, Steve? You're starting to scare me.
Do you think Steve believes in UFOs, Bri?
Yeeehahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 4:59
am
Subject: WAAAYYY Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
>
> Good God Steve, I can't believe you subscribe to this stuff.
> I think these folks have simply been watching too much X-Files.
Scully's a babe.
> Gabe
> who believes in life elsewhere, but doesn't think we are ready to, (or
> worthy of) meet(ing) it yet.
Meeting it? No, actually, the CIA's top scientists are creating the new
*race(s)* in underground labs, dude. Sorry, just got a mild case of
Steveniasis.
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 6:06
am
Subject: Re: There Are Only 8 B5 CDs, So Far
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Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
> >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:12:05 -0800
> >Subject: Re: B5
> >To: tadream mailing list
> >Really-From: DJS
> >
> >There are 8 B5 CD's available. I think steve was being sarcastic. They
> >are:
> >
> >Vol 1
> >Vol 2
> >5-episode discs
> >1 enhanced CD in the PC game (contains 2 unreleased tracks)
>
> I made a mistake. (See the following re-post.) With all those '5's,
> I mistakenly thought that the set of 5 episode CDs was being followed-up
> by another set of 5. Now, according, to Dan, there 'will' be another
> set of 5--but from SuperCollector, not from Sonic Images. Sorry about
> that.
>
No no no, I never said SC was involved with the B5 discs. I only said
Sonic Images announced that there would be more episode discs. We have
nothing to do with the B5 releases.
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 6:16
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>
> > Really-From: Steven Feldman
> >
> > If *this* stuff doesn't make your jaw drop, nothing will. And
> > here you thought I was a tad off the _beam_ (zounds! that's a presently
> > ongoing thread) with THE KEEP (well, that one is *sorta* on topic) and
> > RISKY BUSINESS? ;) I don't just have *Tangerine Dream* on the brain,
> > you know.
Steve, have you ever seen One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest? I think you
and Jack have something in common. ;-)
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 7:42
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Greg Heil'
> Really-From: Steven Feldman
David M. Jacobs, Ph.D.,
> 'The aliens have fooled us,' he writes in his disturbing new book, 'The
> Threat: What the Aliens Really Want, and How They Plan to Get It' (Simon
&
> Schuster, 1998).
Oh no.. we are all done in for! The aliens are taking all out cow manure
away!!
How will we survive? It just mysteriously slips away..
Serously, cool stuff Steven! I can't wait to see what NASA does with
Cydonia
on Mars, where the supposed face, and pyramid structure lie. I hope they
photograph that area.. but that's like... ummm.. you finding a copy of
The Keep LP :)
Greg H.
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Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Tue
3/17/1998
4 KB
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Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Brian E. Kirby
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 12:30
pm
Subject: Streethawk
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
Hi all
I have 2 questions to ask about the Streethawk video. Any help is greatly
appreciated.
1) Has there been any laser disc issue of this TV series?
2) How many episodes have been released on videocassette so far?
Jeffrey
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Re: Streethawk
PENFOLD
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
12094
Re: Streethawk
DJS
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
18202
Streethawk
Steve Jenkins
Mon
10/4/1999
1 KB
18212
Re: Streethawk
Michael A. Jean
Tue
10/5/1999
1 KB
18213
Re: Streethawk
upnsm0ke
Tue
10/5/1999
1 KB
18214
Re: Streethawk
Jim Moore
Tue
10/5/1999
2 KB
18215
Re: Streethawk
Michael A. Jean
Tue
10/5/1999
1 KB
18219
Re: Streethawk
yannick.edom@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx
Tue
10/5/1999
1 KB
18220
Re: Streethawk
Dale
Tue
10/5/1999
2 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 12:58
pm
Subject: An open message to Steven Feldman
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Really-From: David Datta
: Really-From: Steven Feldman
Steven,
If you really know the semantics you claim you do, I you certainly know
the difference between the concepts of public forums and general
forums. At least I THOUGHT you knew. To summarize: one means that
anyone can participate and the other means the forum is for any topic.
Maybe you subscribed so long ago you forgot the intro message:
I would like to welcome you to the mailing list 'tadream'. It
is a forum for discussions about Tangerine Dream and related
artists. The discussions are not moderated, but I do ask that
the discussions have some small relation to Tangerine Dream
(solo works and instrumentation discussions are welcome).
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 2:08
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: rmknudson@j... (matt knudson)
This is who we are!
For the absolute fastest internet access on the planet, check out:
www.interjetnet.net
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 1:28
pm
Subject: Re: Absurd to Complain in a Public Forum?
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Really-From: datta@c... (David Datta)
} Really-From: Steven Feldman
} I assumed he was not subscribed to the list because I have been
} subscribed to this list for seven years and have never heard a peep out
} of him here. As for 'somebody he knows' being on it, Ash is the only
} one--unless you count his various customers as being people he knows.
Sorry, I happen to know him too. I know many other people who have been
subscribed to this list for as long as it existed who have never
uttered a peep here. Some people you probably wouldn't want reading
what you write. Some of them don't have computers and get stuff of
interest printed out and sent to them. Don't equate silence on the list
with ignorance of what goes on here. I have been surprised myself by
who knows what is happening on this list. Lots of times, people off the
list know more than I do about what's going on here.
} >I think it is absurd to complain that your comments were forwarded to
} >Archie. [. . .]
}
} By *that* token, I guess it would be 'absurd to complain' if I
} forwarded some of the talk that goes on here re bootlegging to say, the
} administrator of the TDI website, the FBI, Virgin, Miramar, Sequel, etc.
} ad nauseum. Not! See my point? Ever hear of the information overload?
Well, did it occur to you there the administrator of the website
probably reads the list? Or someone from Miramar or other record
label? It would be 'absurd to complain' if one of your above listed
groups gets a mail forwarded to them.
} >Really-From: David Datta
} >[. . .] or doesn't regularly get postings that relate to him via list
} >archives? [. . .]
}
} Now, *that* I didn't think of. Still, I consider it unlikely--even
} *now*.
Why? His kid is pretty computer saavy and runs his web page for him, he
may do archive searches of e-music and prog-rock lists.
} Those who aren't advanced enough to understand, won't.' By the same
} token, who would bother to scan a mailing list for something so petty?
If I owned a business, I would most likely to have someone do regular
searches to see what people are saying about my business. Eurock is a
pretty unique enough name that it wouldn't be hard to search list
archive machines for the company.
} No offence, Dave, but I
} don't think Archie likes TD enough, gives a rat's rump about this little
} flamewar enough, or has time enough to waste wading through website
} after website to zero in on the handful of postings that might tell him
} anything he really wants to know.
No offence taken but this doesn't matter. The point I am making is that
thing you say here are NOT PRIVATE COMMUNICATIONS.
} copies of anything to begin with. But what if I forwarded bootleg-
} related specifica to the record labels of such pop acts as REM, U2,
} Whitney Houston, Madonna, or suchlike? Would anyone on mailing lists
} devoted to those artists dole out platitudes about the nature of public
} forums and the freedom of information in defence of my having forwarded
} what I forwarded? Get off your high horse and get real; political
} correctness is only that: political.
Do you really believe that these companies don't have people looking
for stuff for them? Let me put it this way, it wasn't music fans who
made me shut down archive.uwp.edu, it was the record companies. I was
told very clearly that they PAY people to filter all this crap for
information they need to know. I am not saying that Archie does or
doesn't stay aware of this list. I agree with you, he probably doesn't
but that doesn't matter. I am not going to bother asking him.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 2:12
pm
Subject: RE: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
> > Ranjit's out of business until September as he's too busy tying to
> > make ends meet.
>
You'd think he'd want to sell _more_ CD's.
Scott
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 2:26
pm
Subject: RE: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
> >terrifying than that, because it is utterly surreptitious yet
> unstoppable. We
> >are doomed as a species, Jacobs believes, and we didn't even see it
> coming.
>
> Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. Party at my place!
>
> Scott
>
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 2:31
pm
Subject: RE: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
>Serously, cool stuff Steven! I can't wait to see what NASA does
with
>Cydonia
>on Mars, where the supposed face, and pyramid structure lie. I
hope they
>photograph that area.. but that's like... ummm.. you finding a
copy of
>The Keep LP :)
Pathfinder already explored it, and found an LP of the Keep.
Unfortunately, it had to melt it down to analyze it's contents.
So which TD album should be the first to be played on another
planet? Hyperborea?
Scott
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Dave Brewer
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Re: TD on Another Planet?
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Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 2:26
pm
Subject: Re: B5
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Really-From: Kees
At 11:12 16-03-98 -0800, you wrote:
There are 8 B5 CD's available. I think steve was being sarcastic. They
>are:
>
>Vol 1
>Vol 2
>5-episode discs
>1 enhanced CD in the PC game (contains 2 unreleased tracks)
>
>That's all folks....the next 5 are being produced as we speak.
>
>Dano
But the 5-episode discs come in 3 versions!
You have the German pressing, that's 5.
And you have the US pressing in 2 versions. The first
pressing came without booklet so you could see the
CD from the outside. The second pressing was with booklet.
Both pressings have different numbers.
The German pressing just has an extra logo.
Kees
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 2:48
pm
Subject: TD @ Music Blvd
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Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
Music Blvd just sent me a message saying that a bunch of their stuff is
on sale, and they're right! As for TD, they have just about everything,
including imports, much of it at $10, except imports are more.
They also have Ed's Stuntman & Beyond the Storm, Franke's Enchanting
Nature, Klemania, London Concert, Pacific Blue, Pacific Coast Highway,
and Vol. 1-New Music For Films. They also have Schmoelling's Wuivend
Riet.
Scott E. Plumer
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 2:59
pm
Subject: Craig Huxley??? (fwd)
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Michael A Jean
Subject: Craig Huxley???
Wasn't that kid's name Billy Mumy? Currently he acts in Babylon 5!
MJ
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 3:00
pm
Subject: The Beam, Billy Mumy and Feldmans' Forum o' Fantastic Fanomina, etc.
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Really-From: 'Craig Shipley'
Forgot about ol' Peyote-head playing The Beam on EMPETUS. It was also played
on the soundtrack to CAT PEOPLE (called the Blaster Beam here) by Craig
Huntley that later change his name to Huxley (in honor of Aldouis) who put
out the CD that I slammed. The guy was a child actor on a '60's space
horse-opera and I just picked 'LiS' as the most likely. Maybe this Huntley
fellow guested on a Star Trek episode (I think that he even did a rendition
of the 'Star Trek' theme on his CD, don't remember, see how much of an
impression it left???)
Steven, please think of us that are on digest mode before you post a huge
OFF-TOPIC file to the list again (I think that this goes for everyone that
decides to post huge input to the list, even if it is on-topic; there are
those of us that have to scroll through page after page of it and just can't
delete it. I damn near wore my scroll-wheel out with this last one! :-) ).
Build a Web page and post the URL for the pertinent info for those that want
to check it out. My wheel and my index finger thank you!
So, with all of the retro-synth music coming out, Mellotrons are hip, you
can buy new Moog gear again (see www.moogmusic.com), modular analog synths
both real and virtual are all the rage, when do you think TD is going to
dive into the fray and come up with their new analog classic? Or do you
think Onkle Eddie will say, 'Been there, done that, besides, it is too much
work! I like the harpsichord preset, I do, I do!!!'
NP: Camel / Harbour Of Tears (Happy St. Patricks' day!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
Craig Shipley craigs@s...
Siemens-Pyramid Information Systems, Inc.
1100 Johnson Ferry Rd. NE Suite 400
Atlanta, Georgia 30342 (404) 845-3404
Corporate Voice Mail (800) 333-5754 x-2023
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------
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Re: The Beam, Billy Mumy and Feldmans' Forum o' F
Gabe Yedid
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 5:12
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: 'Greg Heil'
>
> Oh no.. we are all done in for! The aliens are taking all out cow manure
> away!!
They're wasting their time with us ;).
> How will we survive? It just mysteriously slips away..
> Serously, cool stuff Steven! I can't wait to see what NASA does with
> Cydonia
> on Mars, where the supposed face, and pyramid structure lie. I hope they
> photograph that area.. but that's like... ummm.. you finding a copy of
> The Keep LP :)
Thanks to Dano, our local agent of the Trilateral Commission, that is
something that finally seems within reach.
(What Steve, you mean it never occurred to you how Dano could so easily
get his hands on one? That kind of job takes *CONNECTIONS*!!!)
Like you didn't know that, when played backwards at 3/4 speed, _The Keep_
LP relates the minutes of the Trilateral Commission's monumental meeting
that took place at Spago's, Apr. 1 1981?
Like you didn't know this list is, in fact, rife with conspirators and
members of secret societies?
In addition to Dano:
--Eli is really a Freemason
--Brian K. is a Templar
--Lars is a high-ranking member of the Illuminati
--you yourself, Steven, unwittingly serve the interests of the
Elders of Zion
--I am the local Speaker-at-large for the Second Foundation
--Dave Datta, he who will not let the list come to harm and save it from
its own worst excesses, is, in fact, R. Daneel Olivaw.
>Greg H.
Gabe
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Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 5:13
pm
Subject: Re: Streethawk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: PENFOLD
At 20:30 199803.17 +0800, tadream mailing list wrote:
>Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
>1) Has there been any laser disc issue of this TV series?
Don't know
>2) How many episodes have been released on videocassette so far?
Only one, the pilot episode
Pete
mailto:penfold@a...
'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our
studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the
road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...'
-- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way TD decides
on which instruments to take on the road.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 5:16
pm
Subject: Re: The Beam, Billy Mumy and Feldmans' Forum o' Fantastic Fanomina, etc.
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: 'Craig Shipley'
>
> So, with all of the retro-synth music coming out, Mellotrons are hip, you
> can buy new Moog gear again (see www.moogmusic.com), modular analog synths
> both real and virtual are all the rage, when do you think TD is going to
> dive into the fray and come up with their new analog classic? Or do you
> think Onkle Eddie will say, 'Been there, done that, besides, it is too much
> work! I like the harpsichord preset, I do, I do!!!'
All that tells me is that, despite its pretenses of being an innovative
art-form, e-music is one of the most conservative styles around. As long
as people are so hooked on re-creating the '70s-early '80s sounds with
their neo-vintage gear, I don't think there will be any more revolutions
coming out of this particular school.
Gabe
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 6:27
pm
Subject: Re: Streethawk
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Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
>
> Hi all
>
> I have 2 questions to ask about the Streethawk video. Any help is greatly
> appreciated.
>
> 1) Has there been any laser disc issue of this TV series?
> 2) How many episodes have been released on videocassette so far?
>
> Jeffrey
There is no laserdisc and no other releases on video. Are you a Rex
Smith fan? Hehhehe,
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 6:36
pm
Subject: Beyond The Storm-cutout city dude!
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Really-From: DJS
If you don't have Beyond the Storm I suggest you get it. All my dists
are cutting it out..which means out of print baby!
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 5:45
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
>
> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
(...)
>
> Like you didn't know this list is, in fact, rife with conspirators and
> members of secret societies?
>
> In addition to Dano:
> --Eli is really a Freemason
> --Brian K. is a Templar
> --Lars is a high-ranking member of the Illuminati
> --you yourself, Steven, unwittingly serve the interests of the
> Elders of Zion
> --I am the local Speaker-at-large for the Second Foundation
> --Dave Datta, he who will not let the list come to harm and save it from
> its own worst excesses, is, in fact, R. Daneel Olivaw.
>
>
> Gabe
I'm so relieved: I was afraid you were going to blow MY cover, Gabe...
C.B. Vincent Goudreault
online since early 93, TD fan since 77
first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet
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Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Tue
3/17/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 7:38
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
>
>
> I'm so relieved: I was afraid you were going to blow MY cover, Gabe...
C'mon Vincent, being an engineer on Canadair's top-secret project in
conjunction with Grays to develop FTL travel using their technology
isn't THAT important ;).
>
> C.B. Vincent Goudreault
Gabe
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 8:00
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> > Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
> >
> >
> > I'm so relieved: I was afraid you were going to blow MY cover, Gabe...
>
> C'mon Vincent, being an engineer on Canadair's top-secret project in
> conjunction with Grays to develop FTL travel using their technology
> isn't THAT important ;).
>
> >
> > C.B. Vincent Goudreault
>
> Gabe
I was referring to the OTHER prject...
Replies
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Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Wed
3/18/1998
2 KB
12114
TD does Asimov?
Sean Montgomery
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
12120
Re: TD does Asimov?
Gabe Yedid
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
12121
Re: Asimov Concept
Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
Wed
3/18/1998
4 KB
12153
Re: Asimov Concept
Dennis Nigbur
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12164
Re: Asimov Concept
Gabe Yedid
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12198
Re: Asimov Concept
Dennis Nigbur
Sat
3/21/1998
4 KB
12111
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
John M. Poer
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
12119
Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: An Open Apology to Archie Patterson
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Steven Feldman
Hello,
I apologize for calling Archie Patterson names while complaining
about a specific transaction between myself and his company, Eurock.
The words I used were uncalled for and not justified as fodder for low
humor. I have learned a lesson from this and won't commit an error of
this sort again.
Eurock has always carried and continues to carry recordings that no
other American distributor has seen fit to make available to the buying
public. As such, it is an invaluable source for those seeking electronic
music recordings from outside the United States. What's more, Eurock's
pricing for its stock is modest if not more than fair.
I griped about the postal charge my order incurred because I ordered
items that totaled $20 and was not too keen on paying $8 in postage for
$20-worth of merchandise. The truth is, the two items I payed $10 for
each normally retail for $20-$36 each in this country, so I was being
really rather obnoxious in trying to save another 2 or 3 dollars on
postage for what was and is admittedly a bargain despite the postage.
I regret having tried to dissuade people from doing business with
Eurock. The only unprofessionalism exhibited in the matter was due to
actions and words issuing from myself--which I recant.
Steven Feldman ^ ^ ^ SUBSCRIBED TO: Space Music, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ________ ^ ^
33 Brook St #3 ^ ^ ^ Tadream, CNI News, P.E.E.R. ^ ^ ^ __--- ---_
Brookline Mass ^ ^ ^ Perspectives, The MUFON UFO ^ ^ - _ \
02146-6913 USA ^ ^ ^ Journal, the Nausicaa list, ^ ^ | /_/ \ |
(617) 232-3876 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ and Nutrition News. ^ ^_- __/_// __ |/
BITNET: ar402004@b... ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ - (|/ '()` <()/ ^
INTERNET: ar402004@b... ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ \_ O .> | ^
HAYAO MIYAZAKI DISCUSSION GROUP: nausicaa@b... ^ /--_/ -__ -- / ^
<*> Address for subscribing: listserv@b... <*> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ --- ^ ^
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 6:51
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: 'Brian E. Kirby'
> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
> --Brian K. is a Templar
Well Gabe, this should probably go without saying, but I'm afraid
that I'm going to have to kill you.
Best wishes,
B. Kirby
PS - If everyone on the list will please let me know when they'll be
available for memory wipes, a member of our Remote Viewing division
will be with you shortly.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: The Walls Have Ears and the Web Has Eyes
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:28:05 -0600
>Subject: Re: Absurd to Complain in a Public Forum?
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: datta@c... (David Datta)
>
>} Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
>} I assumed [Archie Patterson] was not subscribed to the list
>} because I have been subscribed to this list for seven years and have
>} never heard a peep out of him here. As for 'somebody he knows' being
>} on it, Ash is the only one--unless you count his various customers as
>} being people he knows.
>
>Sorry, I happen to know him too. I know many other people who have been
>subscribed to this list for as long as it existed who have never
>uttered a peep here. Some people you probably wouldn't want reading
>what you write. [. . .]
Ulp. I don't want to think too hard who they might be, either.
>[. . .] Some of them don't have computers and get stuff of interest
>printed out and sent to them. Don't equate silence on the list with
>ignorance of what goes on here. [. . .]
Good point. Just because someone's not in the position (i.e. able)
to reply doesn't mean they don't hear what we say and wouldn't *like*
to be able to reply.
>[. . .] I have been surprised myself by who knows what is happening
>on this list. Lots of times, people off the list know more than I do
>about what's going on here.
That could be because--as administrator to some dozen mailing lists
--you read few of the posts that pass through each and every list every
day. This is understandable, yet oddly disquieting, nonetheless.
>} [. . .] I guess it would be 'absurd to complain' if I forwarded some
>} of the talk that goes on here re bootlegging to say, the administra-
>} tor of the TDI website, the FBI, Virgin, Miramar, Sequel, etc. ad
>} nauseum. Not! [. . .]
>
>Well, did it occur to you there the administrator of the website
>probably reads the list? Or someone from Miramar or other record
>label? [. . .]
It should have, but--admittedly--it didn't.
>[. . .] It would be 'absurd to complain' if one of your above listed
>groups gets a mail forwarded to them.
I see your point, now, and agree.
>If I owned a business, I would most likely to have someone do regular
>searches to see what people are saying about my business. [. . .]
Again, this makes sense and is perfectly understandable.
>[. . .] Eurock is a pretty unique enough name that it wouldn't be hard
>to search list archive machines for the company.
True enough.
>[. . .] The point I am making is that things you say here are NOT
>PRIVATE COMMUNICATIONS.
This is something that I always knew tacitly yet never really
thought through enough to the inevitable conclusion--even though it is
inescapable.
>} [. . .] what if I forwarded bootleg-related specifica to the record
>} labels of such pop acts as REM, U2, Whitney Houston, Madonna, or
>} suchlike?
>Do you really believe that these companies don't have people looking
>for stuff for them? [. . .]
I guess I didn't. It wouldn't be the first time it was pointed out
that I am naive.
>[. . .] Let me put it this way, it wasn't music fans who made me shut
>down archive.uwp.edu, it was the record companies. [. . .]
?!?! I never guessed! Ouch. *That's* a real eye-opener! :(
>[. . .] I was told very clearly that they PAY people to filter all
>this crap for information they need to know. [. . .]
A-ha; paranoia can bear fruit, after all. Now we know. I guess
no one here will be making cavalier comments about rock stars' imagined
private habits too readily any more. ;)
-- Steven Feldman
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 2:48
am
Subject: TD on Another Planet?
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Dave Brewer
> Quoted From: 'Plumer, Scott'
>
> So which TD album should be the first to be played on another
> planet? Hyperborea?
>
It should be obvious! Alpha Centauri and Zeit! But also, I think that
Encore would go well, or Exit. Maybe Optical Race. Hyperborea is a good
one too.
Dave B. (going back into lurk mode, until all the scary, strange posts stop!)
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Re: TD on Another Planet?
Rainer Rutka
Wed
3/18/1998
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 3:36
am
Subject: Re: TD on Another Planet?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DAVENTURA
In a message dated 98-03-17 21:51:45 EST, you write:
<< Dave B. (going back into lurk mode, until all the scary, strange posts
stop!) >>
Hey look out, that's my bush....David
Replies
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12107
Re: TD on Another Planet?
Plumer, Scott
Wed
3/18/1998
2 KB
12108
Re: TD on Another Planet?
SRiser3600
Wed
3/18/1998
2 KB
12144
Re: TD on Another Planet?
Rainer Rutka
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 3:40
am
Subject: Re: The EUROCK/from Canada
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Really-From: 'Gilles Nadeau'
I bought for the first time 5 cd's from EUROCK. Before I fill the form, i
sent an email to Archie about the title i want and the price. I received
response and i sent my form in the wb site of Eurock. it was on the 4th of
february. Last week (12th march) i received the invoice from Archie and
today i received my 5cd's in a solid box. I paid the duty from US to Canada
10.23$ can. The fees for Air mail was 4.07us for 5 cd's.
The raison why it take 7 week was when i sent my form, i had hte new one
from Wahnfried (Drums'n Balls) and this cd was not in stock. At the
begenning of march, Archie sent me an email about the waiting time to
received my cd's.
I'M satisfy about EUROCK, and I know with the difference between US and
Canadian money it cost 44% more but i'm happy today and next week -end it
will be a BIG SOUND WEEK-END. The other place where cd's from Klaus Schulze
are available is in Germany and it cost an arm.....
P.S.
Excuse my english, my native language is french.
Gilles Nadeau
Quebec, Canada
----------
> De : tadream mailing list
> A : tadream@c...
> Objet : Re: The EUROCK/Feldman Debacle
> Date : 15 mars, 1998 15:53
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c...
that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Really-From: Rich Maggio
>
>
> OK, I feel the need to speak up here. The last I heard, these mailing
> lists are a PUBLIC forum. How did you not know that Archie wasn't a
> subscriber to this mailing list, or that someone he knows is on it?
> I think it is absurd to complain that your comments were forwarded to
> Archie. If you have a perfectly valid point (which I am sure you do)
> and stand by it, so what if he found out about it?!?
>
> I had a bad experience with an online CD company and I sent a
> message to this list detailing my experience. I didn't care if
> they found out - I copied them on the message!!! And even if I didn't
> copy them on it, I would have assumed that they would have received a
> copy since I was making my statement in a public forum.
>
> If 'retribution' is a concern, then the comments should not have been
> made in a public forum. Period.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Rich Maggio
>
> > direct about my feelings when I'm online, but if and when you want to
> > truly make a comment anonymous, at least remove the parts of the
comment
> > that identify the comment's writer so blatantly! My name was removed,
> > but what remained was so obviously from me that it's pathetic.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 1:20
pm
Subject: Re: TD on Another Planet?
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Rainer Rutka
On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> > So which TD album should be the first to be played on another
> > planet? Hyperborea?
> It should be obvious! Alpha Centauri and Zeit! But also, I think that
> Encore would go well, or Exit. Maybe Optical Race. Hyperborea is a good
> one too.
OH NO !
Take Goblins Club ! It kicks a$$ ! (If the aliens have one !)
;-)
Rainer
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 1:22
pm
Subject: Re: B5
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Vic Rek
> Really-From: Kees
> But the 5-episode discs come in 3 versions!
> You have the German pressing, that's 5.
> And you have the US pressing in 2 versions. The first
> pressing came without booklet so you could see the
> CD from the outside. The second pressing was with booklet.
> Both pressings have different numbers.
> The German pressing just has an extra logo.
Well, actually the first US pressings came with a booklet. The second
pressings were without a booklet so the casual shopper can see that
these are different discs by seeing the cool designs on the CD and not
the boring cover which was used for the episodic releases.
Vic
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 2:05
pm
Subject: RE: TD on Another Planet?
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Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
>> So which TD album should be the first to be played on
another
>> planet? Hyperborea?
>It should be obvious! Alpha Centauri and Zeit! But also, I
think that
>Encore would go well, or Exit. Maybe Optical Race. Hyperborea
is a good
>one too.
I chose Hyperborea since it refers to a far-off mythical place,
not because of the music, even though it is among my faves.
Scott
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 3:06
pm
Subject: Re: TD on Another Planet?
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Really-From: SRiser3600
I would say that it really depends on the planet>>>>
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Re: TD on Another Planet?
Rainer Rutka
Thu
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 3:30
pm
Subject: Fwd: Beyond The Storm-cutout city dude!
Thought I'd respond to this one. Here are my thoughts:
Buy this if:
1) You are a die hard td fan
2) You are a rarities collector
3) You have 15$ (cheap, considering that this
is a two cd set), that you don't care about spending on
diluted td material which sounds like 'hmm.. I've heard that
somewhere before', and, 'now I know why this wasn't released
until now, they probably never should have.'. Because:
--> I boast that those of you who have read without
an extreme reaction to the above posess a
more refined taste of MODERN ambient/
art rock music....
....that should not be confused with the dates
on which the tracks of these discs were concieved, since
there is a well founded biographical value in this release that
allows for the preservation of listener historical 'sentiment'...
...but questions the reason for the date of this release,
that brings me to frustration when I wonder, is TD
just getting .. old?.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 17, 1998 6:36
pm
Subject: Beyond The Storm-cutout city dude!
To: tadream@c...
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DJS
If you don't have Beyond the Storm I suggest you get it. All my dists
are cutting it out..which means out of print baby!
Dano
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Re: Beyond The Storm-cutout city dude!
Jim Moore
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 3:47
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Gabe Yedid
Vincent...WHAT other project?
You have one we don't know about?
This jeopardizes the whole Alliance!
We're going to have to 'persuade' one of the First Foundation members to
drop by Laval sometime soon...
ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
Gabe
Replies
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TD does Asimov?
Sean Montgomery
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
12120
Re: TD does Asimov?
Gabe Yedid
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
12121
Re: Asimov Concept
Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
Wed
3/18/1998
4 KB
12153
Re: Asimov Concept
Dennis Nigbur
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12164
Re: Asimov Concept
Gabe Yedid
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12198
Re: Asimov Concept
Dennis Nigbur
Sat
3/21/1998
4 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 4:25
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'John M. Poer'
At 03:00 PM 3/17/1998 -0500, you wrote:
>Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
>
>
>tadream mailing list wrote:
>>
>> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>>
Guys,
>> On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
>> > Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm so relieved: I was afraid you were going to blow MY cover, Gabe...
>>
>> C'mon Vincent, being an engineer on Canadair's top-secret project in
>> conjunction with Grays to develop FTL travel using their technology
>> isn't THAT important ;).
>>
>> >
>> > C.B. Vincent Goudreault
>>
>> Gabe
>
>
>I was referring to the OTHER prject...
>
I just got off the phone with Chris (Carter). He claims you guys don't even
exist!
jp
'I may be old, but I know what I like!'
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Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 4:29
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
> Vincent...WHAT other project?
The one I can't mention here, you know...
>
> You have one we don't know about?
You do know, but this forum is not secure; 'SF' may be reading this...
> This jeopardizes the whole Alliance!
>
> We're going to have to 'persuade' one of the First Foundation members to
> drop by Laval sometime soon...
Ha ha ha! Very funny; especially since two of them are already in town.
>
> ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
We'll have to ask Isaac himself. His persona is running on emulation
on one of our positronic computer. I'll keep you posted.
>
> Gabe
N.P. Curve 'Come Clean'. This rocks.
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Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
Gabe Yedid
Wed
3/18/1998
4 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 4:31
pm
Subject: Re: Silver Scale/Horns of Doom question
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Really-From: feldon@p...
>Really-From: Aured Azhallein Rancuel
>
>After hearing Horns of Doom off the tape tree stuff and I recalled
>someone mentioning how much more there was to Silver Scale, am I correct
>in assuming Horns of Doom is part of this (it sure sounds Silver
>Scaleish)
Well the rhythm line of Horns of Doom was used during the 1983 Poland
concert (The last 1/4th of the show).
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 4:42
pm
Subject: TD does Asimov?
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Really-From: Sean Montgomery
> ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
I don't think that would be a good idea. It would have a strong aroma of
'sellout' and 'creative bankruptcy' emmenating from it. I lost all
interest in Chris Franke when he did the Celestine Prophecy album. Not to
mention the fact that I don't think TDs current musical direction would
really suit an Asimov theme. But you could probably put together a
soundtrack to an imaginary Foundation movie with their Virgin era
recordings.
SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator
T O P I X / Mad Dog
http://www.topix.com/~sean
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Re: TD does Asimov?
Gabe Yedid
Wed
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3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 5:14
pm
Subject: Re: High Priced Eno and TD CDs
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Really-From: feldon@p...
>Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:00:49 -0800
>>Subject: Re: What is EUROCK/Archie Patterson's Problem?
>>From: tadream mailing list
>>Really-From: Elias Granillo, Jr.
>>
>>>Really-From: Steven Feldman
>>>
>>>[. . .] I just sent a copy of Eno's MUSIC FOR THE WHITE CUBE to
>>>someone--in a box, with a shitload of bubblewrap without insurance--
>>>for just $3. And I had received $115 for this CD! I mean, come on:
>>
>>It frightens me that someone would pay that kind of money for a Brian
>>Eno CD. What exactly was on it? [. . .]
>
> Don't laugh too hard: there are people paying $50.00 and up for a
>*bootleg* of TD's 'Ultima Thule' 45 as we speak.
WHY?!?!?!?!? Ultima Thule appears on Electronic Orgy, which is a boxed set
of 4 CDs for a very reasonable price.
>Now that Voiceprint is sold out of Quinoa, the price is about
>$80 per copy.
I never got my copy from them.
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 5:14
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> Really-From: 'John M. Poer'
>
> Guys,
>
>
>
> I just got off the phone with Chris (Carter). He claims you guys don't even
> exist!
>
> jp
>
> 'I may be old, but I know what I like!'
Chris is to be commended for his dedication to the project. He is
our official denier (though he'll never admit that...)
You John, however, should pay more attention to the subliminal messages
embedded in 'Ambient Monkey': can't you follow your instructions?
C.B. Vincent Goudreault
online since early 93, TD fan since 77
first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 5:23
pm
Subject: Re: Eurock & Progtron Addendum
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: feldon@p...
>Really-From: DJS
>
>
>tadream mailing list wrote:
>
>> I just talked to Archie today; he's currently being scr*wed by MC &
>> Visa for entering CC orders manually as opposed to swiping someone's
>> card.
Forgive me for asking but why would MC and Visa single him out when
entering credit card information by hand is a REQUIREMENT for Mail-order
business...?
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 5:31
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
>
>
> tadream mailing list wrote:
> >
> > Really-From: Gabe Yedid
> >
> > Vincent...WHAT other project?
>
> The one I can't mention here, you know...
Ohhh...oh yeah. THAT project!
I dig...
> > You have one we don't know about?
>
> You do know, but this forum is not secure; 'SF' may be reading this...
You are right. Forgive me, I slipped. My bad.
> > We're going to have to 'persuade' one of the First Foundation members to
> > drop by Laval sometime soon...
>
> Ha ha ha! Very funny; especially since two of them are already in town.
Hmm...it seems the First Speaker has been up to more than he has been
letting us sense. We are going to have to bring this under 'review', if
you know what I mean.
> >
> > ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
>
> We'll have to ask Isaac himself. His persona is running on emulation
> on one of our positronic computer. I'll keep you posted.
(watch it, watch it, you just might have spilled some of the beans about
The Other Project!)
does he prefer old or new style TD?
(then again, if old TD is all you let him hear...)
it's been great co-conspiring with you Vincent ;)
Gabe
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 5:33
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: 'John M. Poer'
>
> >> > Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I'm so relieved: I was afraid you were going to blow MY cover, Gabe...
> >>
> >> C'mon Vincent, being an engineer on Canadair's top-secret project in
> >> conjunction with Grays to develop FTL travel using their technology
> >> isn't THAT important ;).
> >>
> >> >
> >> > C.B. Vincent Goudreault
> >>
> >> Gabe
> >
> >
> >I was referring to the OTHER prject...
> >
>
>
> I just got off the phone with Chris (Carter). He claims you guys don't even
> exist!
Pah, Carter is a rank amateur. His was one of the easiest emotional
readjusments we have ever performed.
>
> jp
Gabe
who's been on enough of an ego trip for now.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 5:34
pm
Subject: Re: TD does Asimov?
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: Sean Montgomery
>
> > ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
>
> I don't think that would be a good idea. It would have a strong aroma of
> 'sellout' and 'creative bankruptcy' emmenating from it. I lost all
> interest in Chris Franke when he did the Celestine Prophecy album. Not to
> mention the fact that I don't think TDs current musical direction would
> really suit an Asimov theme. But you could probably put together a
> soundtrack to an imaginary Foundation movie with their Virgin era
> recordings.
>
>
> SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator
hm, I dunno Sean...I can sort of picture a scene where Hari Seldon gets
his first glimpses of Trantor to the opening of 'Rising Haul...'
Gabe
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 5:02
pm
Subject: Re: Asimov Concept
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
>Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
>ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
>
>Gabe
Great question Gabe. When I think of Asimov, I think of 'I, Robot', and so I
immediately think Kraftwerk would be better suited. I always envisage SF works
as being futuristic, cold, technology-based or perhaps society-based. Perhaps
my own mental image of this is uncommon, but I associate stark, technical
musical themes with these. Thus I see Kraftwerk (no flame intended).
I see TD more in the sword-and-sorcery vein : grand, mysterious, magical.
Clearly, they have visited this ground with Legend. I think their (old)
sweeping symphonic style maps more clearly onto my visualisation of the themes
for S&S than onto SF.
BWT, I read more SF than S&S. Go figure ! (as you American persons like to
say).
-------------------------------------------------------------
Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g...
Senior Software Engineer 01383 821921 x8262
GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems
Simulation and Training Division
Donibristle, Fife, Scotland
-------------------------------------------------------------
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12153
Re: Asimov Concept
Dennis Nigbur
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12164
Re: Asimov Concept
Gabe Yedid
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12198
Re: Asimov Concept
Dennis Nigbur
Sat
3/21/1998
4 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 6:09
pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Florine Epure'
tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
> Hey Guys 'n' Gal(?--only one?),
> Since folks here think that this mailing list is a public forum
> and that forwarding things from one place to another is not a problem,
> here's a little bit of off-topic information. By the way, when is an
> off-topic thread not an off-topic thread . . . but a spam? ;)
>Subject:
> An Open Apology to Archie Patterson
>Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Hello,
> I apologize for calling Archie Patterson names while complaining
>about a specific transaction between myself and his company, Eurock.
Steven, I think some members of this list are really very bored with your
20-40-60
KB text/trash/spam messages you keep on sending to the list.
First the Eurock thing and now the UFO post.
Not to talk about your opinions on Eurock that change as the wind blows in the
interval of a couple days.(???)This is really comic.At the beginning you called
him names.And what do we get in the end? An apology? (you still need his
services
- but why didn't you think about this before starting all this thread?)
And then Dave sends you a message telling you that anybody can hear what you say
on this list - and what do you do? You punish everybody with the UFO stuff -
which
is anyways off-topic and adding a Keep logo or something won't make it
otherwise.
You heard before complaints from digest members who just have to scroll through
tons of text to get something TD related and useful information - but seems like
you really don't care.
You heard about well known members that have left this list because of messages
like yours - but you still don't get it.
I guess you really have to post something here - if it it's good or stupid it
really doesn't matter to you, as long as you send your quota of messages to the
list.
I really hope that in the future you won't bomb this list with everything what's
on your mind and KEEP some to yourself.
Florin.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 6:26
pm
Subject: RE: TD does Asimov?
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
> I lost all
>interest in Chris Franke when he did the Celestine Prophecy
album. Not to
Why? Just think of it as a soundtrack.
Scott
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Re: TD does Asimov?
Sean Montgomery
Wed
3/18/1998
3 KB
12135
Re: TD does Asimov?
PENFOLD
Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12139
Re: TD does Asimov?
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Thu
3/19/1998
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Re: TD does Asimov?
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 6:30
pm
Subject: Re: monolight
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Really-From: AOutland
Question: on Tangents, one of the parts of Monolight is identified as the
yellow part. Likewise, Logos has both blue and red parts. Does anyone know why
these particular parts have been labeled with these colors? Just curious.
Thanks. Dell
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 6:29
pm
Subject: Re: GoldTri : Volume 1
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Really-From: Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
Damn. Wrong list. Sorry!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g...
Senior Software Engineer 01383 821921 x8262
GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems
Simulation and Training Division
Donibristle, Fife, Scotland
-------------------------------------------------------------
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 6:28
pm
Subject: GoldTri : Volume 1 - A non-musician's view
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Really-From: Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
Being an associate of Mr. Middleton, I was awarded a peek of the CD and have
thus been
encouraged to provide this review. I hope no-one takes offense at what I say,
certainly any
overly negative or incorrect words are not the result of intention but simply
my
inability to adequately express myself.
Hopefully, you will see that, as usual, Mr. Middleton and myself do not always
agree. As such,
you can ignore either set of comments, or both, when deciding what the general
reaction will
be to the CD.
Enjoy,
GoldTri Volume 1
----------------
An honest (warts and all) review by a non-musician. The rating scale used is
based on
TaDream's AS scale where 1 represents poor and 5 represents perfect.
CD 1
---------------------------------------------------
Timescape - Purple Rocks
This one surprises me a bit since Kent's bio (as he told me) indicated that the
guitar
had not been used for some time. I don't know if this project prompted him to
get it off
the rack again, or if I misunderstood his meaning, but I feel the guitar saves
this track.
The first few minutes of this piece do little for me, but the excellent guitar
solo which
appears around three minutes and then again (to a lesser extent) later in the
track gives
this some structure and lead.
An interesting choice for the opener, given that it is one of the few pieces to
have 'real'
instruments on it, but an attention grabber none-the-less.
Personal Rating : 4
---------------------------------------------------
Fanger & Kersten - Tapedriver
This has the type of progressive built-up of seqeunces and drum effects which I
love.
You'll know that already if you ever read my patchy reviews on the list. Never
having
fully grasped the finer points of e-music/dance sub-genres, this is what I
always
imagine 'trance' to be - a repetitive, though subtley changing
bass-line/drum-beat/
sequencer which hypnotises the listener. The introduction of the vocal samples
is, IMO,
well-executed and timely. The whole effect leaves me thinking of Alter Ego, in
particular their track 'SoulFree' which has another female vocal singing
'soulfree'
(not surprisingly) in the same style.
Personal Rating : 5
---------------------------------------------------
JoxBox - The 9th King of Fife
For me, Jens had a hard act to follow, coming after F&K on the disc. I've been
fortunate
to hear the tape of his previous material he sent to Grant and I enjoy this
track more
than any on that cassette. However, when we get to the bottom line, I'm afraid
this
doesn't do things for me. Whether by design or by luck, I find I am always
reminded of
Schulze, both in instrumentation and execution. I am very choosy with Schulze
material,
being up there with Namlook (IMO) for being able to produce both excellence and
tedium
in equal proportions.
Personal Rating : 2
---------------------------------------------------
Paul Nagle - Captain Edgar Buys a New Fish
Now, Paul. I love Earthshaper. I love The Live Element. I have heard and liked
Firedancer
and Skyrider (hasn't grown to love because I don't own them). So why don't I
like this
track? I find it too crammed full of ideas and lead melodies for the
sub-4-minute piece
that it is. Rather than being able to get into the track to enjoy the melody
and
intricate accompaniment I usually like in Paul's work, I find I am mentally
running to
keep up with him. As an eight to ten minute piece, this would be great, but
this sounds
(to me) as though you're falling into the current TD failing of changing ideas
too
quickly without enough development. Or was that the point?
Personal Rating : 3
---------------------------------------------------
Paul Lawler - Ice Station
A rather light-weight intro to this track had me fooled the first couple of
times I
listened to it. However, in a similar way to the F&K track, I find this piece
engaging
and a real grower. Obviously, it is not as 'powerful' as Tapedriver, but I view
this
as a more 'beautiful' piece. I find the melody reminds me of some of Paul
Nagle's
softer moments on Earthshaper.
As a newcomer to Paul Lawler's work, I may be on the look-out for more info and
sounds
from this man because this release has me intrigued.
Personal Rating : 4
---------------------------------------------------
FSP - Amalthea
Marcel achieves such results by manipulation of a seemingly simple (to my ears)
yet
effective sequencer line. The lively first section is in contrast with the more
eerie
and unsettling middle section, and even more so with the beautiful piano solo
which
finishes the piece. As with most of Marcel's work that I've heard to date, this
takes
a little time to grow on me but leaves me impressed and fulfilled.
Personal Rating : 4
---------------------------------------------------
4A - Hatred on an Imaginery Monorail
Okay, I admit. I had to have the title explained to me. If I don't even get the
title,
what chance the music? You know (those of you with kids) when they bring you
their first
drawing and you can actually tell what it is? A simple picture of, say, a man
(big blob
for head, thin line for body and four varying lengths of line from various
corners), or
a house (big square with four little squares and a rectangle in it) and you
feel both
proud and a little touched by the child's simplistic view of the world? Well,
that's what
I feel about this track. The bass-line is a little too simplistic and sparse
for me, the
melody not 'up-front' enough. It promises much, but just fails to deliver.
I guess this is just my condescending way of saying that I find this track
charming in its
naivety and simplicity. I think I can see what they wanted to achieve, and am
touched by
the effort.
Personal Rating : 3 (very nearly a 4)
---------------------------------------------------
Asana - Transform
This sounds like the type of thing you'd find on Warp records (Autechre, Aphex
twin, etc.)
It sounds like a more professional version of the type of stuff I produce on
the PC
when I'm playing with Cakewalk Pro. I think Dave's reputation spoiled this
track for me.
I had expected much more than this. He has admitted that this is a departure
for Asana,
and I'm glad to hear it. After the excellent tracks I've heard from Asana
before, I think
this one is too simplistic and 'shallow' for me.
Personal Rating : 2
---------------------------------------------------
Gigantic Legless Cauldrons - A Short Ride in an Even Faster Machine
A song of two parts for me. The opening 1:20 is grand, symphonic and promises
much. Following
the drum roll at around 1:20, it seems as though there's some loss of direction
and control
which really is a shame. It manages to recover prior to the fade out, though.
Is this an
excerpt from something? 2:20 doesn't do this justice, and if that 30 second
section
after the drum roll was 'sorted out' (what do I know?), I think you'd have a
real winner here.
Personal Rating : 4
---------------------------------------------------
Airsculpture - Sargasso Sea
What can I say? It's Airsculpture, one of my band's of the moment.
If I can be blunt here, though (and I suppose I have been so far), where are AS
going as a band?
To my ignorant ears, AS have progressed little since their debut three years
ago. They
still produce excellent, wonderful, beautiful soundscapes in the classic
tradition of 70's
e-music (or is it now the classic tradition of retro 70's groups?), but I could
imagine this
piece appearing on Impossible Geometries.
Warning - TD comparison approaching! (Sorry John)
When TD were making this type of music, they had a period of perhaps four years
which
many consider their classic period. 1973 to 1977 saw the release of Phaedra,
Rubycon (calm
down Grant!) and Encore (Grant, I said CALM DOWN!), as well as (of course)
Ricochet,
Stratosfear and Sorceror. In that period, which could all be loosely classified
as being
of and about the same style, they were still progressing. They had moved from
the
quirky electronics of Atem (1972) and prog-rock-ness of Green Desert (1973),
and were about
to revisit that pro-rock scene with Cyclone (1978). However, IMO, each album
produced
in the intervening years has its own identity and style.
To my ears, Impossible Geometries and Europa sound very similar, as does this
track.
Where are you going next John? I'm more concerned about losing AS' great talent
through
lack of progress than actually _wanting_ you to change style.
Personal Rating : 5 (even with all the above, I love this!)
CD 2
---------------------------------------------------
T-Bass UK - A Question of Time
This live track is typical T-Bass, with the type of screaming synths that are
my other passion
(in addition to build-up of sequencers). Certainly falls into the 'whistlable'
camp of e-music
( a new sub-genre, perhaps?) and is a perfect opener for the second CD. Is this
the style of
T-Bass' new CD, Generator?
Personal Rating : 4
---------------------------------------------------
Under the Dome - Flussiger vier-Takter
Being in the lucky position I am with respect to this 'group', I've heard this
track on a number
of occassions and, frankly, am getting fed up of it! 8-)) If Grant thinks that
RAMP is too close
to Logos, then this is too close to Cloudburst Flight for me, with the slow,
acoustic guitar
intro followed by the more manic middle sequence. This does not prevent it
being a good piece
however : Grant's trademark (?) sequencer sound and Colin Anderson's guitar
work weave an
entrancing middle section that should, IMO, have been continued in favour of
that redundant (IMO)
end reprieve for the tranquil piano.
Personal Rating : 3 (would have been a 4 if the end was different)
BTW - I'm allowed to say these things about Grant. He's man enough to take
them, and can beat
me up if I offend him. 8-)
---------------------------------------------------
Eric Snelders - A Flock of Red Ibis
I find this piece a little 'light' and 'floaty' for me. I expect this was the
aim of the piece
and it is therefore to be congratulated. However, it finds itself amongst some
real kick-ass
material and, IMO, it doesn't hold its own. If I had heard this pretty/nice
track as part of
a whole album of the same style then I would most likely enjoy it more.
Instead, surrounded
by these other tracks, I find this a bit lacking.
Personal Rating : 2
---------------------------------------------------
Keller & Schoenwaelder - Stumbled in Derby
This one certainly starts slowly. This is another one that sounds Schulzian to
my ears,
particularly the key changes and, after a few minutes, the little beat effects.
This one
confuses me slightly because it does very little : it sits there repeating the
same sequence
in various keys throughout the track, has some backing and the occassional
'tweet' or effect.
I.E. it is minimal. And yet, there is something about it that attracts me. I'm
never going to
give this a particularly high mark, but for some reason I seem to like it more
than I should.
Personal Rating - 3
---------------------------------------------------
Ashok Prema - Unicorn
This starts in the style that I expect Ash's work to be, melodic and full of
eastern promise.
The shock occurs when you think the song is finished : at around 2 minutes the
melodic piece
fades out and there is a tangible pause before the sequence starts up. This is
classic stuff,
superbly backed up with both eastern (Indian?) percussion and another, less
'twee' melody. I
must admit to not rating Ash's first album particularly highly, but if this is
a guide to a
change of style, then I'm sure his new CD is a high-priority purchase.
Personal Rating - 4
---------------------------------------------------
RAMP - The Warsaw Desaster
Prior to this track, I had heard one RPM track on the Sequences sampler, and I
loved it. Now
that I've heard this, I eagerly await the official release of their CD. This
piece combines an
interesting beat with a catchy (though, IMO, dark) melody tht doesn't quite fit
into my new
'whistlable' sub-genre (it's too complex).
I think I owe Grant a slap for mentioning Logos in his review. Until then, I
didn't notice
the relationship, but now that it's pointed out I think there is indeed some
'homage' to that
classic. However, this track has been vieing for top spot in my affections
since I first heard
it, and I believe it sands on its own as a wonderful piece of music.
Personal Rating - 5
---------------------------------------------------
Satsuma Nightmare - Annulus
This piece starts with Alan's son (watch out Edgar) making his debut on CD, and
moves into a
rather rocky-style of sound (rather than e-music style). I can see/hear guitars
and drums almost
in a stadard rock-quartet format here. It's more prog than elctronic, I would
say.
Unfortunately, having established this setup, the track seems to do nothing
more. It doesn't
develop but instead continues to pound away with the slightly irritating
percussion. When the
percussion goes, we are left with an overlong 'unaccompanied' section to fade
out.
Personal Rating - 2
---------------------------------------------------
Synthetic Block - Swell and Slack
Starts with much abstract noises and sweeping effects until a quiet sequence
appears. This
bubbles along and then things start to happen. Melody line appears, percussion
hits and now
we're motoring.
My concern here is the time. There's enough to keep me entertained for 5 or 6
minutes,
but I find the track a little drawn out to fill the running time. I'm a hard
man to please (some
tracks have too many ideas and too little time - some have too much time and
too few ideas). In
this case it's unfortunate because other than that, this is a great track.
Personal Rating - 3
---------------------------------------------------
Weird - Manual Gearchange
For whatever reason, I find Jens collaboration with Andy better than any of the
individual
material I've heard from Jens. Andy has the Gottsching style down to an art,
and this just
catches me at a time when my interest in Ashra et al is fueled by the recent
arrival of 3
Ashra CDs.
Listening more closely, it's not just the guitar that makes this track for me.
Yeah, of course,
there's the accompaniment, but the background is actually very detailed and
adds much to the
track in a subtle way.
Is there an album on the way, guys?
Personal Rating - 4
---------------------------------------------------
Decapolis - Sunset
Sorry, Riley, but this is 'jazzy' stuff. It's just got that 'funky' beat. And
it's brilliant.
I imagine Andy's guitar over this and get goosebumps. As it is, the flute-like
melody reminds
me of Deep Forest-style recordings - no bad thing. Perhaps suffers in being
slightly too long,
but I think this is a great closer for the album.
Being slightly more difficult, I wouldn't count this as triangular, but as we
all know that
doesn't make something bad or weak. I actually see this as a strong piece on
the album.
Almost as if we're saying 'okay, that's all the screaming e-music stuff, here's
something
relaxing to finish your listening experience and make you realise there's more
to life
than Billy Currie and Andy Pickford.'
Personal Rating - 4
-------------------------------------------------------------
Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g...
Senior Software Engineer 01383 821921 x8262
GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems
Simulation and Training Division
Donibristle, Fife, Scotland
-------------------------------------------------------------
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 6:46
pm
Subject: RE: TD does Asimov?
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Really-From: Sean Montgomery
> I lost all interest in Chris Franke when he did the Celestine Prophecy
> album.
>> Why? Just think of it as a soundtrack.
Okay, good point...after all, TD besmirched their name by contributing
music to some pretty atrocious movies in the 80s. Ultimately, it still
comes down to the music. But with instrumental music, 'concepts'
give the listener a context in which to understand the album (ahh...an
album about PARKS!), and if the context doesn't work, then the music can
become stinky by association. I just fear that an album based on the
works os Asimov would come across as pompous and meandering. Call
it a hunch! On the other hand, this opinion is based totally on the idea
of TD creating an *imaginary* soundtrack...if they ever had the chance to
score a *real* Asimov-penned movie, then the results might be interesting,
especially if they had great visuals to work with.
SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator
T O P I X / Mad Dog
http://www.topix.com/~sean
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 6:54
pm
Subject: B5
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Really-From: Michael A Jean
Details details...actually it is the other way around...
MJ
> And you have the US pressing in 2 versions. The first
>pressing came without booklet so you could see the
>CD from the outside. The second pressing was with booklet.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 9:29
pm
Subject: Re: CF/Celestine prophecy and AGES!
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>Really-From: Sean Montgomery
>
>
>
>> I lost all interest in Chris Franke when he did the Celestine Prophecy
>> album.
>
>>> Why? Just think of it as a soundtrack.
>
I do not agree. I think Celetine P is a good album, very melodic and
pleasant. CF did lost his ability on sequences but the music is not boring.
On the contrary, his music of films are too symphonic for me ; they just get
me bored, and this includes the B5 series : what a disappointment!
What do you think of Pacific Blue? I remember there is only 4 or 5
instrumental tracks and the vocal tracks did the same thing as the symphonic
soundtracks!
Well, I found this afternoon AGES on CD (Virgin label) at Virgin megastore,
Paris. Very cheap. They have received some pieces. A pity the last track is
missing. Must burn a CD from the vinyle fot it. The Viking is more
impressive with the 33 cm vinyle than from the little 12 cm CD.
That's all for today, TaDreamers!
Good night!
Fred
np : The Last Dance of Mr X. (Andy Summers)
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 10:23
pm
Subject: Alpha Centauri
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Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
Final call... anyone else going to The Netherlands this weekend that fancies
meeting up over there?
Lawry
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Alpha Centauri
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Alpha Centauri
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5 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 11:01
pm
Subject: D:Ambient Monkeys
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Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
Ambient Monkeys - TDI011CD
Subtitle: Dream folder #1 at Crimson's train lodge 'Myopia world' (???)
Recorded 1997 Fujiwara Studios.
1. Token From Birdland
2. Symphony in a-minor (J.S.Bach)
3. The seventh propeller of silence
4. Calyx Calamander
5. Largo (G.F. Handel)
6. Riddle of the monkey tribe
7. Moon marble
8. Concerto in a-major, adagio (W.A Mozart)
9. Lemon Vendor Khaly
10. Campera de Mon Glynan
11. Virtue is it's own reward
12. Pantha rhei
13. Myopia world
At first, I didn't know what to make of this album. It is very strange. The
obvious
snag with this release is the lack of cue points. Not really a problem for
me,
because I always listen to the whole cd, in order...(I'm not a 'skip this
track -
shuffle these tracks' sort of guy), but it can be a bit of a pain in the
arse
occasionally.
It's hard to form an opinion of what this album is trying to be. As is well
known,
this cd was originally used as pre-concert ambient music during the 1997
European Tour. Reading the TD website, this music was released due to
huge demand from the fans, and therefore, I believe was not originally
intended for general release. This would at least explain it's lack of
identity.
It actually fulfilled it's purpose brilliantly. Sitting in Manchester
waiting for
TD to arrive, to be greeted by music that was clearly TD (some recognisable
themes) yet completely removed from their current output, was quite an
experience in itself. It wasn't clear before the concert that the Ambient
Monkeys
CD was by TD, Jerome solo, or A.N Other. All that was said in the press
releases
etc, was that it was pre-concert ambient music, so I was a bit concerned as
I'd
agreed to buy it for half a dozen overseas list members, and we didn't even
know what it was. Still, concerns were short lived, as all deals were
honoured
and my estimations of not only those members involved, but the list as a
whole
were greatly improved. :-)
Anyway, onto the music itself. This is obviously supposed to represent a
journey,
but quite where A and B are, and the route taken are far from clear. There
are vast amounts of chuffing noises between each track, so we're obviously
being carried by steam train, and on a coastal route it seems. Mention has
been
made of squarking monkeys etc, but most of the 'ambient' noise is that of
steam trains, seashores, and light birdsong. Quite pleasant in the main,
slightly
irritating at worst. Unlike most of TD's recent classical output, the items
found
on this CD do not seem out of place. (Especially when compared to Pictures
At An Exhibition, which I thought was the most inappropriately placed piece
of music ever!). Here, at least, they seem to fit the mood.
The third snippet of music, which happens to be my favourite part of the
whole CD
is Astral Voyager in disguise, and I can't help grooving at my keyboard when
this
starts up. Unfortunately, it only lasts for a couple of minutes.
Like Tom Gerady, I recognise a lot of the other refrains, but I can't place
them.
Maybe Vic or Lars with their encyclopedic collections could offer some of
the
other names. I've even tried to date them based on synth pathes without
success.
Lemon Vendor Khaly is another snippet I like, so if someone could tell me
what this
actually is I'd appreciate it.
There's nothing here to make me stand up and shout, nor is there anything to
make me lie down and cry, so, I suppose I'd say it was an 'average' album.
Overall, as an experiment, I think this CD stands up pretty well, but as the
start of
a potential series of releases, (my interpretation of the subtitle), I don't
think it could
be repeated. At least, not in this format. It'll never be my most played TD
CD, but it
won't acheive Electonic Meditation status either. Don't break your neck to
get this
CD, but if the opportunity comes your way, don't pass it up either. When I'm
stressed
out, it's good to fall asleep to.
Sorry for the on-topic post. :-)
I now return you to UFO's, Eurock, The Beam, Kitaro..... and all manner of
wierd and
wonderful things. :-)
Lawry Simm
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Mar 18, 1998 11:30
pm
Subject: Re: Alpha Centauri
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Really-From: 'Jens Peschke'
>Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
>
>Final call... anyone else going to The Netherlands this weekend that fancies
>meeting up over there?
Sure, ask at Marcel Engelsī stall for other tadreamers.
More than a dozent of GoldTri members will meet there.
Dunno how many of them are tadreamers too, guess about 7 or 8.
Some of them arenīt that active over here, though.
I canīt hardly wait especially for the ARC performance.
Kind Regards
Jens
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 12:03
am
Subject: Re: Alpha Centauri
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>Really-From: 'Jens Peschke'
>I canīt hardly wait especially for the ARC performance.
>Kind Regards
>Jens
Can't wait for the review....between GT Vol1 & Alfa C., there's going to be
a hoard of reviews to read, I hope :-)
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
After reading two glowing reviews of the latest Madonna album and
hearing the first single, 'Frozen' twice, I was intrigued enough to buy
a promo of it. Her latest album, RAY OF LIGHT, for those who haven't
heard, is ambient techno with house and jungle and all manner of other
electronica burblings on it. It was produced by William Orbit, who has
worked with Blur and Depeche Mode. It is rumored that Madonna tried to
hire Liam Howlett of Prodigy for the project, but that he turned her
down.
As early as her second album, 1984's MATERIAL GIRL, Madonna has
featured Eurodisco stylings (on that LP, 'Over and Over') on her tracks
but it wasn't until the single remix of 'Express Yourself' (from the 1989
album, LIKE A PRAYER) that she had a hit with a song of this type. Next
up was 1990's 'Justify My Love.' Much was made of the fact that Lenny
Kravitz co-wrote it, but not too many people noticed that it was a funky
rendition of Kraftwerk's 'Trans-Europe Express' (a music journalist in
THE BOSTON PHOENIX noticed it). 1992's EROTICA album featured a zesty
Eurodisco/'deep house' track called 'Deeper and Deeper,' which teased me
by being just electronic enough to whet my appetite but not enough to be
real electronica.
The latest Madonna album is *really good*. Except for a used vinyl
copy of LIKE A PRAYER that I bought erroneously assuming that the album
version of 'Express Yourself' was the same as the single version, this
marks the first time I've ever bought an album of hers. And it's only
been out for two weeks!
Okay, you've come this far and are probably fidgeting because I
haven't oo-ed and ah-ed about Tangerine Dream in this post yet, so here's
why I've posted to this list re Madonna: musically, RAY OF LIGHT falls
in between THE DREAM MIXES and TIMESQUARE: DREAM MIXES II in many ways
(and there are definite similarities to FSOL's LIFE FORMS album, too).
Most noticeably,
RAY OF LIGHT's Track 6, 'Nothing Really Matters'
is similar to
TIMESQUARE: DREAM MIXES II's Track 4, 'Digital Sister.'
This is particularly interesting in that 'Digital Sister' seems to
not only be the only track on TIMESQUARE that doesn't seem to be a remix
of a previous TD track, but is also the most atypical track on the album.
With it's almost-funky bass-heavy riff, it sounds strangely out of place.
The same thing can be said for 'Nothing Really Matters,' which, to me, is
the best thing on RAY OF LIGHT. It is not one of the two 'hits' off the
album so far, but I have a feeling it'll be the third (but what do *I*
know; I'm hardly a Madonna expert).
So, I guess I'm trying to say to try to get to hear the new Madonna
album if you like the DREAM MIXES albums.
-- Steven Feldman
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 1:03
am
Subject: Re: TD does Asimov?
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Really-From: PENFOLD
At 08:42 199803.18 -0800, tadream mailing list wrote:
>Really-From: Sean Montgomery
>> ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
Harlan Ellison wrote a screenplay that pulls together a lot of Asimov's
writings, using Susan Calvin through which they are presented.
Apparently Asimov was satisfied with Ellison's treatment.
Pete
mailto:penfold@a...
'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our
studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the
road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...'
-- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way TD decides
on which instruments to take on the road.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 1:02
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
At 12:31 199803.18 -0500, tadream mailing list wrote:
snip! 8><.......................
yadda yadda yadda.....zzzzz
talk about topic drift!
'We speak of time and mind, which do not easily yield to categories. We
separate past and future and find that time is an amalgam of both. We separate
good and evil and find that mind is an amalgam of both. To understand, we must
grasp the whole.' - Isaac Asimov
/^\
| PENFOLD
| mailto:penfold@a...
|
|
|
YA .semi.random.sig.quote
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 1:18
am
Subject: Re: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> So, I guess I'm trying to say to try to get to hear the new Madonna
> album if you like the DREAM MIXES albums.
>
> -- Steven Feldman
I'll pass :-)
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 2:23
am
Subject: Re: Silver Scale/Horns of Doom question
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Really-From: AOutland
In a message dated 98-03-18 11:33:02 EST, you write:
<< Horns of Doom is part of this (it sure sounds Silver
>Scaleish) >>
Don't know what Horns of Doom is, but Silver Scale is very similar to
Thief - Diamond Diary, I believe- and we all love that album, don't we? so it
stands to reason we really like this particular piece. Dell
np: World Without Rules
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 1:29
am
Subject: Re: TD does Asimov?
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: PENFOLD
>
> Harlan Ellison wrote a screenplay that pulls together a lot of Asimov's
> writings, using Susan Calvin through which they are presented.
Are you referring to Harlan, Patron Saint of the Writer's screenplay for
*I, Robot*?
> Apparently Asimov was satisfied with Ellison's treatment.
How could he not be? He had Harlan!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (runner-up: P.K. Dick)
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 2:48
am
Subject: RE: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
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Really-From: 'Jim Moore'
> This is particularly interesting in that 'Digital Sister' seems to
>not only be the only track on TIMESQUARE that doesn't seem to be a remix
>of a previous TD track,
Huh? Neither are 'Timesquare' and 'Jungle Jacula'...
- jim
'If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes...'
-- Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) Blade Runner, 1982
-----------------------------------------------------
'jimbo@v...' is Jim Moore, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Home Page: http://www.jimbo.vivid.net
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 2:48
am
Subject: RE: Beyond The Storm-cutout city dude!
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Really-From: 'Jim Moore'
> --> I boast that those of you who have read without
> an extreme reaction to the above posess a
> more refined taste of MODERN ambient/
> art rock music....
This is perhaps the most pretentious thing I have yet to
hear on this list...
- jimbo
'If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes...'
-- Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) Blade Runner, 1982
-----------------------------------------------------
'jimbo@v...' is Jim Moore, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Home Page: http://www.jimbo.vivid.net
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59
pm
Subject: RE: An open message... also to others
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Really-From: Peter.Stoeferle@t... (Peter Stoeferle)
Hi,
perhaps this should also go to those discussing about Kitaro, Ufos,...
I always believed this is a *Tangerine Dream* mailing list - or am I wrong
????????????
> Subject: An open message to Steven Feldman
> Really-From: David Datta
> : Really-From: Steven Feldman
>
> Steven,
>
> ...
>
> Maybe you subscribed so long ago you forgot the intro message:
>
> I would like to welcome you to the mailing list 'tadream'. It
> is a forum for discussions about Tangerine Dream and related
> artists. The discussions are not moderated, but I do ask that
> the discussions have some small relation to Tangerine Dream
> (solo works and instrumentation discussions are welcome).
'nuff said.
Peter
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Thu
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 2:56
am
Subject: The Man Inside
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
For Sale: Original CD, THE MAN INSIDE, EMI France, 7956172. Best Offer.
E-Man
Elias Granillo, Jr.
upnsm0ke@g...
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Re: The Man Inside
Lawry Simm
Tue
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 10:00
am
Subject: Re: TD on Another Planet?
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Really-From: Rainer Rutka
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> I would say that it really depends on the planet>>>>
If it's VULCAN !
... it must be LOGOS ! (What else ?)
Rainer
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 9:52
am
Subject: Presets
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Really-From: Colin Knowles
Hi,
I know this is old, it takes me a while to catch
up :-), but there was a lot of general
complaining a while back about TD using a lot of
presets in the 90's albums.
Just what do you mean by presets? Standard bass
paterns? Standard sounds or what?
Surely if your going to use a wood block as a
rythum (?) line there is only one sound
to use...No?
Just curious..
Colin
n.p. Nothing..Off to electricute some
first-years...
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Re: Presets
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Thu
3/19/1998
3 KB
12199
Re: Presets
Dennis Nigbur
Sat
3/21/1998
4 KB
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Re: Presets
Colin Knowles
Fri
3/20/1998
4 KB
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Re: Presets
feldon@p...
Fri
3/20/1998
7 KB
12172
Re: Presets
Lawry Simm
Fri
3/20/1998
3 KB
12173
Re: Presets
Elias Granillo, Jr.
Fri
3/20/1998
4 KB
12177
Re: Presets
Plumer, Scott
Fri
3/20/1998
2 KB
12180
Re: Presets
=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWW
Fri
3/20/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 6:30
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: rmknudson@j... (matt knudson)
>
> Are you serious about this ASIMOV stuff? I had the rare opportunity of
> spending the afternoon with his wife and him in their Central Park
> penthouse back in 1985. Quite an incredible man, and that is not just
> because he is distantly related to me either!
> Who can access this positronic computer of yours anyway?
>
> Matt
You're related to Asimov? That's pretty cool. My bloodline can be traced to
Pancho Villa, Riley's connected somehow (he did a geneagram) to the Bridges
clan (Lloyd, Beau, Jeff...), Dan's related to John Carpenter, and Bob and
Chris are drinking buddies!!!!!!!!!!
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 6:22
am
Subject: Re: Alpha Centauri
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Really-From: 'Jens Peschke'
E-man suggested (?):
>Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
[...]
>Can't wait for the review....between GT Vol1 & Alfa C., there's going to be
>a hoard of reviews to read, I hope :-)
Yep. I hope someone will even present some nice pictures taken with a digital
device on one
of the web pages ! 'Breathing at Huizen' for those you arenīt luckily enough to
join the party. :)
Plus we hope to get some signatures on *some* of the contrib copies.
Thanks the allmighty that thereīs enough space left ! ;)
ob: TD content: A new stunning UK EM act, ARC (Mark Shreeve and Ian Boddy),
will present their very 1st concert and CD over in the Netherlands.
They are using almost analogue gear incl. two huge modular systems (A BIG Moog
modular,
aka the hump on Chris Frankeīs back and a huge Roland Modular).
I donīt like to compare them with TD of the mid 70s but iīd say, most that
prefer
the Baumann aera to TDīs output in the 90s should give them a try.
Rock on, dude(s) !
Jens
PS: Eli, Iīd like to wait with my review until the others have heard the music
too.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 7:19
am
Subject: Re: An open message... also to others
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Really-From: DJS
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Peter.Stoeferle@t... (Peter Stoeferle)
>
> Hi,
>
> perhaps this should also go to those discussing about Kitaro, Ufos,...
>
> I always believed this is a *Tangerine Dream* mailing list - or am I wrong
> ????????????
>
> > Subject: An open message to Steven Feldman
> > Really-From: David Datta
> > : Really-From: Steven Feldman
> >
> > Steven,
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Maybe you subscribed so long ago you forgot the intro message:
> >
> > I would like to welcome you to the mailing list 'tadream'. It
> > is a forum for discussions about Tangerine Dream and related
> > artists. The discussions are not moderated, but I do ask that
> > the discussions have some small relation to Tangerine Dream
> > (solo works and instrumentation discussions are welcome).
>
> 'nuff said.
> Peter
Actually, being that we are not entirely robots..we do drift from topic
from time to time...which I actually find refreshing. I also find it
humorous to read some of these off topic posts, even if they are thinly
veiled with TD references. These discussions are actually related to
TD...they just linger longer without the word 'Tangerine Dream' in the
sentences. Besides, they all end sooner than later anyway...especially
when Gandalf thrusts his staff into the thundering sky.....so chill
dude.
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 6:55
am
Subject: Re: Off Topic: UFO Abductions--The Big Picture
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: rmknudson@j... (matt knudson)
>Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
>tadream mailing list wrote:
>>
>> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>>
>> Vincent...WHAT other project?
>The one I can't mention here, you know...
>>
>> You have one we don't know about?
>You do know, but this forum is not secure; 'SF' may be reading this...
>> This jeopardizes the whole Alliance!
>>
>> We're going to have to 'persuade' one of the First Foundation
>members to
>> drop by Laval sometime soon...
>Ha ha ha! Very funny; especially since two of them are already in
>town.
>>
>> ObTD: could TD make an Asimov concept album work?
>We'll have to ask Isaac himself. His persona is running on emulation
>on one of our positronic computer. I'll keep you posted.
>>
>> Gabe
>N.P. Curve 'Come Clean'. This rocks.
Are you serious about this ASIMOV stuff? I had the rare opportunity of
spending the afternoon with his wife and him in their Central Park
penthouse back in 1985. Quite an incredible man, and that is not just
because he is distantly related to me either!
Who can access this positronic computer of yours anyway?
Matt
_____________________________________________________________________
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 3:40
am
Subject:
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Really-From: Mark Jones
unsubscribe tadream
From:
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Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 3:40
am
Subject:
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Really-From: Mark Jones
subscribe tadream-digest
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 1:12
pm
Subject: RE: CF/Celestine prophecy and AGES!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
> >> I lost all interest in Chris Franke when he did the Celestine
> Prophecy
> >> album.
> >>> Why? Just think of it as a soundtrack.
>
>I do not agree. I think Celetine P is a good album, very
melodic and
>pleasant. CF did lost his ability on sequences but the music is
not boring.
>On the contrary, his music of films are too symphonic for me ;
they just get
>me bored, and this includes the B5 series : what a
disappointment!
Hey, I like CP! A little on the new-agey side, and there's one
track (#5) that sounds like it was lifted from White Eagle, but
otherwise I enjoy it a lot. So far, it's all the CF solo I've heard.
Scott
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 1:48
pm
Subject: Re: Asimov Concept
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Really-From: Dennis Nigbur
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:02:42 +0000 (GMT) tadream mailing
list wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
>
>
> I see TD more in the sword-and-sorcery vein : grand, mysterious, magical.
> Clearly, they have visited this ground with Legend. I think their (old)
> sweeping symphonic style maps more clearly onto my visualisation of the themes
> for S&S than onto SF.
Have you read Asimov's Extended Foundation Cycle (an epic
comprising ca. 15 novels)?? Sounds grand and mysterious
enough for a TD soundtrack, in my opinion. I agree that
Kraftwerk would fit in well with the short stories, but
Asimov goes far beyond those.
Dennis
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3/21/1998
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 2:19
pm
Subject: Re: Asimov Concept
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> > Really-From: Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
> >
> >
> > I see TD more in the sword-and-sorcery vein : grand, mysterious,
magical.
> > Clearly, they have visited this ground with Legend. I think their (old)
> > sweeping symphonic style maps more clearly onto my visualisation of the
themes
> > for S&S than onto SF.
>
> Have you read Asimov's Extended Foundation Cycle (an epic
> comprising ca. 15 novels)?? Sounds grand and mysterious
> enough for a TD soundtrack, in my opinion. I agree that
> Kraftwerk would fit in well with the short stories, but
> Asimov goes far beyond those.
>
> Dennis
Dano has 'Red Morpho' on *repeat* while reading the adventures of Fafhrd &
The Grey Mouser.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 9, 1998 1:43
pm
Subject: Re: silver scale/Macula Transfer
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Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault'
On Mar 9, 1:51am, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Subject: silver scale
> Really-From: Nick.Adams@C...
>
>
> please please please help me, its driving me mad what album is silver
> scale from and how do i get it.
> nick
>-- End of excerpt from tadream mailing list
'Siver Scale' is on the 5th CD of the 5 CD box 'Tangents' (This 5th CD was
for previously unreleased stuff). This box set sold brislky back in 1994
and would now be nearly impossible to locate -- unless you can find someone
willing to part with it.
Note to Dan:
will SuperCollector carry those new release of Macula Transfer on CD?
C.B. Vincent Goudreault
online since early 93, TD fan since 77
first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 2:52
pm
Subject: madonna & TD
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Really-From: Michael A Jean
I reluctant to admit it, but Madonna's new album is pretty good, thanks to
William Orbit's producing it... I didn't notice the parallels to
Timesquare though (yet)
MJ
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 3:26
pm
Subject: Re: silver scale/Macula Transfer
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Vincent Goudreault
tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> Really-From: 'Vincent Goudreault'
>
> On Mar 9, 1:51am, tadream mailing list wrote:
> > Subject: silver scale
> > Really-From: Nick.Adams@C...
> >
> >
> > please please please help me, its driving me mad what album is silver
> > scale from and how do i get it.
> > nick
> >-- End of excerpt from tadream mailing list
>
> 'Siver Scale' is on the 5th CD of the 5 CD box 'Tangents' (This 5th CD was
> for previously unreleased stuff). This box set sold brislky back in 1994
> and would now be nearly impossible to locate -- unless you can find someone
> willing to part with it.
>
> Note to Dan:
> will SuperCollector carry those new release of Macula Transfer on CD?
>
> C.B. Vincent Goudreault
> online since early 93, TD fan since 77
> first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet
Geee! This e-mail was sent 10 days ago and is only being delivered
now. Looks like the 'other' project is a success, right Gabe?
C.B. Vincent Goudreault
online since early 93, TD fan since 77
first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 4:40
pm
Subject: Re: TD does Asimov?
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: PENFOLD
At 17:29 199803.18 -0800, tadream mailing list wrote:
>Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>> Really-From: PENFOLD
>>
>> Harlan Ellison wrote a screenplay that pulls together a lot of Asimov's
>> writings, using Susan Calvin through which they are presented.
>
>Are you referring to Harlan, Patron Saint of the Writer's screenplay for
>*I, Robot*?
Yes, the same.
Pete
mailto:penfold@a...
'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our
studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the
road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...'
-- Edgar Froese (founder of Tangerine Dream), on the easy way TD decides
on which instruments to take on the road.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 5:00
pm
Subject: Re: Alpha Centauri
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Marcel Engels'
>Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
>
>Final call... anyone else going to The Netherlands this weekend that
fancies
>meeting up over there?
Yep, I'll be there.
I'll have my own stall (together with another group).
It's nice to say hello to some of the list-members.
Marcel
Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels
Email :fsp@w...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 5:00
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: feldon@p...
>Really-From: Colin Knowles
>
>Hi,
>
>I know this is old, it takes me a while to catch
>up :-), but there was a lot of general
>complaining a while back about TD using a lot of
>presets in the 90's albums.
>
>Just what do you mean by presets? Standard bass
>paterns? Standard sounds or what?
>
>Surely if your going to use a wood block as a
>rythum (?) line there is only one sound
> to use...No?
TD is using the built-in sound samples of all the keyboards they have and
it sounds like a drummer using a $150 drumset. Before 1985, TD was
WORLD-REKNOWNED for digitizing and researching their OWN sound effects and
sound samples. Now, it seems like they just settle for whatever the
keyboards will spit out. These keyboards have megabytes of memory to hold
ANY sample they so choose. Why don't they do this? The last sampling I've
heard of any note was Jerome grabbing a snippet of Darth Vader (Star Wars)...
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 5:49
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: feldon@p...
>
> >Really-From: Colin Knowles
>>
> >Just what do you mean by presets? Standard bass
> >paterns? Standard sounds or what?
> >
> >Surely if your going to use a wood block as a
> >rythum (?) line there is only one sound
> > to use...No?
>
> TD is using the built-in sound samples of all the keyboards they have and
> it sounds like a drummer using a $150 drumset. Before 1985, TD was
> WORLD-REKNOWNED for digitizing and researching their OWN sound effects
and
> sound samples. Now, it seems like they just settle for whatever the
> keyboards will spit out. These keyboards have megabytes of memory to hold
> ANY sample they so choose. Why don't they do this? The last sampling I've
> heard of any note was Jerome grabbing a snippet of Darth Vader (Star
Wars)...
In fact, wasn't Mssr. Franke the chief Mad Scientist of Sound Synthesis &
Generation of Projekt: Tang? About the time he left (mid 80s) is pretty
much when TD's palette began to sound more and more as though made up of
*stock* sounds.
E
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 8:14
pm
Subject: RE: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: 'Jim Moore'
>
>
>
> > This is particularly interesting in that 'Digital Sister' seems to
> >not only be the only track on TIMESQUARE that doesn't seem to be a remix
> >of a previous TD track,
>
> Huh? Neither are 'Timesquare' and 'Jungle Jacula'...
Arguably, it is a remix of 'Loved By The Sun'.
> - jim
Gabe
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: RE: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:48:54 -0500
>Subject: RE: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: Jim Moore
>> This is particularly interesting in that 'Digital Sister' seems
>>to not only be the only track on TIMESQUARE that doesn't seem to be
>>a remix of a previous TD track,
>
>Huh? Neither are 'Timesquare' and 'Jungle Jacula'...
The following is a re-post:
-- Steven Feldman
+ + + + + + +
Subject: Associations Between TIMESQUARE Tracks & Other TD
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 97 20:36:20 EST
From: tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Really-From: Steven Feldman
I've only played TIMESQUARE twice, now, but some sounds and tunes
appeared to be familiar:
1.) MOBOCASTER
Twilight Brigade (TURN OF THE TIDES)
Dreamtime (220 VOLT LIVE)
2.) JUNGLE JACULA
Roaring of the Bliss (THE PRIVATE MUSIC OF TANGERINE DREAM)
3.) TOWARDS THE EVENING STAR
Towards the Evening Star (that was too easy, hee hee)
4.) DIGITAL SISTER
(nothing yet)
5.) PIXEL PIRATES
Dreamtime and Towards the Evening Star
6.) CULPA LEVIS
Iowa (THE CLUB DREAM MIXES)
7.) TIMESQUARE
Loved by the Sun (LEGEND)
Change of the Gods (THE DREAM MIXES)
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Re: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 8:42
pm
Subject: Re: Asimov Concept
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: Dennis Nigbur
>
>
> > I see TD more in the sword-and-sorcery vein : grand, mysterious, magical.
> > Clearly, they have visited this ground with Legend. I think their (old)
> > sweeping symphonic style maps more clearly onto my visualisation of the
themes
> > for S&S than onto SF.
>
> Have you read Asimov's Extended Foundation Cycle (an epic
> comprising ca. 15 novels)?? Sounds grand and mysterious
> enough for a TD soundtrack, in my opinion. I agree that
> Kraftwerk would fit in well with the short stories, but
> Asimov goes far beyond those.
>
> Dennis
>
I've managed to track down all but the Empire novels.
I just figure, if Mike Oldfield could make an Arthur C. Clarke concept
album work, why not TD and Asimov?
Gabe
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 7:02
pm
Subject: Re: CF/Celestine prophecy and AGES!
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>
>> >> I lost all interest in Chris Franke when he did the Celestine
>> Prophecy
>> >> album.
>> >>> Why? Just think of it as a soundtrack.
>>
> >I do not agree. I think Celetine P is a good album, very
>melodic and
> >pleasant. CF did lost his ability on sequences but the music is
>not boring.
> >On the contrary, his music of films are too symphonic for me ;
>they just get
> >me bored, and this includes the B5 series : what a
>disappointment!
> Hey, I like CP! A little on the new-agey side, and there's one
>track (#5) that sounds like it was lifted from White Eagle, but
>otherwise I enjoy it a lot. So far, it's all the CF solo I've heard.
>
> Scott
>
Whoops!
There must be some misunderstanding ! (would have said Phil Collins)
Sorry, Scott!
np : pie jesu (Robert Fripp)
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Madonna's RAY OF LIGHT/TD's DREAM MIXES I & II
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:18:59 -0800
>Subject: Re: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: Elias Granillo, Jr.
>
>> So, I guess I'm trying to say to try to get to hear the new
>> Madonna album if you like the DREAM MIXES albums.
>>
>I'll pass :-)
Perhaps I should clarify what I said, then:
Madonna's latest album, RAY OF LIGHT, which is an homage/pastiche/
ripoff of ambient techno, is much better than TIMESQUARE: DREAM MIXES
II in almost every possible way, and yet often winds up neck and neck
with THE DREAM MIXES (I). The Madonna album has two turkey tracks, and
the Tangerine Dream album has two weak tracks and one turkey track.
It is my observation that TD's DREAM MIXES project is the result
of Jerome's predilection for techno clubs and subsequent desire to get
his own music played in them. It is also my observation that while TD
blazed the way for some of what is currently in clubs, what they have
issued as THE DREAM MIXES and TIMESQUARE is an attempt to imitate a
group of musical subgenres (often lumped together as 'electronica' or
'techno') that -- regardless of their indebtedness to some of what TD
pioneered way back when -- has eclipsed TD's understanding of the
possibilities presented by computerized musical instrumentation and
the recording studio in the 1990's.
Anyone who hears the Future Sound of London's LIFEFORMS 2-CD set
or Madonna's RAY OF LIGHT even a handful of times will tell you that:
o Tangerine Dream has virtually no grasp of (the) dance genre(s).
o Tangerine Dream's sound -- as sound rather than music -- no longer
feels at all organic.
o Tangerine Dream rarely produces melodies catchy enough to cross their
music over into other musical markets.
Madonna's RAY OF LIGHT comes off better than TD's DREAM MIXES CDs
because it was produced by the genuine article -- an established ambient
techno musician, not a weekend raver like Jerome. Flames welcome. ;)
P.S.: It could be that one of TD's biggest problems is a complete lack
of objectivity: I can't recall a Froese composition ever being produced
by someone other than the band for inclusion on a TD album.
-- Steven Feldman
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 10:37
pm
Subject: Hmmm
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Really-From: DAVENTURA
tasubscribe undream
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Re: Hmmm
Jens Peschke
Thu
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Mar 19, 1998 10:55
pm
Subject: Re: Hmmm
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Really-From: 'Jens Peschke'
>Really-From: DAVENTURA
>
>
>tasubscribe undream
You just got a gold star for the most informative posting of the last weak week
! ;-)
High potentials over there ! :-)
Cheers
Jens
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 2:14
am
Subject: Email address change EAR/Rational Music , Tangerine Dream , Jarre Mailing List 2 , Jarre Mailing List 1 , Intelligentsia , GoldTri
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Brian M. Frick'
Hello, all! I apologize in advance for the cross post, but it is much easier
this way to inform you that as of this week I will no longer be available at
my email address Brian.M.Frick@l...
Please email me at frickblj@w... from now on. For those of you who may
have me on a mailing list, please make the appropriate adjustment. I
apologize if this causes any hassle.
Please email me at Brian.M.Frick@l... until 12:00 noon CST Friday
3/20/98 if you have any questions.
Thanks!
--
Brian M. Frick
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 10:45
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Colin Knowles
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>
> > Really-From: feldon@p...
> >
> >
> > TD is using the built-in sound samples of all the keyboards they have and
> > it sounds like a drummer using a $150 drumset. Before 1985, TD was
> > WORLD-REKNOWNED for digitizing and researching their OWN sound effects
> and
> > sound samples. Now, it seems like they just settle for whatever the
> > keyboards will spit out. These keyboards have megabytes of memory to hold
> > ANY sample they so choose. Why don't they do this? The last sampling I've
> > heard of any note was Jerome grabbing a snippet of Darth Vader (Star
> Wars)...
>
> In fact, wasn't Mssr. Franke the chief Mad Scientist of Sound Synthesis &
> Generation of Projekt: Tang? About the time he left (mid 80s) is pretty
> much when TD's palette began to sound more and more as though made up of
> *stock* sounds.
>
> E
I seem to remember that EF was more into tape looping....
Anyway isn't the quality of the music more important than the number of new
and/or
original sounds? A peice may be nothing but interesting samples but that doesn't
mean
it'll sound any good (Ambient Monkeys?).
Surely the less time they spend reasearching sounds (which there are many more
people
doing now than there were in the early 80's!) the more time can be devoted to
creating
better album, in terms of compostion, mixing, production etc.
I know I'm biased (prefer 90's stuff to 70's/some 80's) but if the music is good
who cares
what was used to create it? I sometimes get the idea that some people on this
list
are more
interested in how an album was made than the music it contains. (Not a dig at
any
one in
particular before the flames start!)
Colin
n.p. Iron Maiden--Powerslave
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 9:58
am
Subject: Interview with Loren Nerell
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'J. Munnshe'
Hello!
Some months ago, I interviewed to the composer
Loren Nerell, who collaborated as musician
with ex-TD Paul Haslinger in 'World without Rules'.
The interview is published in Amazing Sounds.
You can read it at:
http://www.amazings.com/articles/article0037.html
('Amazing Sounds' is a free online / email-distributed
magazine about electronic music, Ambient, New Instrumental,
Experimental. You can subscribe using the subscription form at:
http://www.amazings.com/ingles.html
Best wishes,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jorge Munnshe *** jmunnshe@c...
+ AMAZING SOUNDS.
+ http://www.amazings.com
+ E-Mail: amazings@a...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 11:59
am
Subject: RE: Presets
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Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
Presets are bascially the sounds that come 'pre set' in synth. TD used to
spend a great deal of time creating their own sounds, especially on the
old analogue synths where you could just start with a completely blank
canvas.
Now however, TD are more inclined to just use the basic sounds that
come with the synth and apply little or no editing. Turn of The Tides
claims to use over 50 new/unique sounds created by TD, but I'm afraid
they still sound very much like the presets to me. Half the problem is that
some of the editing features available on today's synths are either overly
complex, or very time consuming to apply. Hopefully, the new breed of
digital 'analogue' synths which have all the dials and sliders like the old
days, such as the JP-8000 will make 'realtime' sound shaping a more
accessible function.
The 'overuse' of presets, in my mind, makes for quite a boring sound,
unless they are used imaginatively.
Lawry
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 3:04
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: Colin Knowles
>
> > Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> >
> > > Really-From: feldon@p...
> > >
> > > TD is using the built-in sound samples of all the keyboards they have
and
> > > it sounds like a drummer using a $150 drumset. Before 1985, TD was
> > > WORLD-REKNOWNED for digitizing and researching their OWN sound
effects
> > and
> > > sound samples. Now, it seems like they just settle for whatever the
> > > keyboards will spit out. These keyboards have megabytes of memory to
hold
> >
> > In fact, wasn't Mssr. Franke the chief Mad Scientist of Sound Synthesis
&
> > Generation of Projekt: Tang? About the time he left (mid 80s) is pretty
> > much when TD's palette began to sound more and more as though made up
of
> > *stock* sounds.
>
> Anyway isn't the quality of the music more important than the number of
new and/or
> original sounds? A peice may be nothing but interesting samples but that
doesn't
> mean
> it'll sound any good (Ambient Monkeys?).
> I know I'm biased (prefer 90's stuff to 70's/some 80's) but if the music
is good
> who cares
> what was used to create it? I sometimes get the idea that some people on
this list
> are more
> interested in how an album was made than the music it contains. (Not a
dig at any
> one in
> particular before the flames start!)
TD was previously known for a combo of good tunes/original sounds. I'm sure
the advent of workstations has really simplified their composing/sound
generation process for them. I'm pretty much for good music before original
voices, but much of the 90s stuff now sounds the same to me. I like
Rockoon, Tyranny of Beauty & love Oasis, but I can't stand Turn of the Tank
and Goober's Club, voices/samples irregardless. The Schmoelling era still
reigns, sorry :-)
> Colin
> n.p. Iron Maiden--Powerslave
'Two Minutes...To Miiiiiiiidniiiiiiiiiiiiight'!!!!!!!!!!!
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 4:30
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: feldon@p...
>Really-From: Colin Knowles
>> > Really-From: feldon@p...
>> >
>> >
>> > TD is using the built-in sound samples of all the keyboards they have and
>> > it sounds like a drummer using a $150 drumset. Before 1985, TD was
>> > WORLD-REKNOWNED for digitizing and researching their OWN sound effects
>> and
>> > sound samples. Now, it seems like they just settle for whatever the
>> > keyboards will spit out. These keyboards have megabytes of memory to hold
>> > ANY sample they so choose. Why don't they do this? The last sampling I've
>> > heard of any note was Jerome grabbing a snippet of Darth Vader (Star
>> Wars)...
>>
>
>I seem to remember that EF was more into tape looping....
>
>Anyway isn't the quality of the music more important than the number of
new and/or
>original sounds? A peice may be nothing but interesting samples but that
doesn't
>mean
>it'll sound any good (Ambient Monkeys?).
I don't know what the purpose of Ambient Monkeys was. I haven't heard it.
White Eagle, Logos, Poland, Stratosfear, Force Majeure, Phaedra, Rubycon...
etc. etc. those albums were great for SEVERAL reasons.
#1 Elegant simplicity in composing.
Listen to White Eagle. There are maybe as many notes in the entire CD as
there are on one track from Goblin's Club. And yet, it sounds a HELL of a
lot better. What I have heard out of TD for the past 10 years or so are
'songs' which fit a short 4-7 minute long theme which is then discarded. TD
of the 70's and 80's wasn't about 'songs'... it was about Sequencing.
Getting all the layers to be heard on different levels. My major complaint
about 90's TD is that there are no 'bad' notes. If you listen to Poland
especially, and other CDs, you will be listening to a relatively
upbeat/positive part of the CD and then a layer will come in that is
out-of-step with what's playing and not even in sync... at first, it may
even be a bit annoying... then slowly, it will take over and new positive
notes will be added to that and that will become the new theme.
#2 Rawness and newness of the sound.
TD right now is EASILY confused with other music being piped over the
airwaves. It all kind of blends in with the Yanni and Enya to me. Everyone
defends Edgar by saying, 'This is just our musical direction now...' I
don't think Edgar can continue to use that excuse forever. I don't expect
or ask TD to go back to sticks and stones... They can use their present
equipment, but he needs to 'remember where he came from and what made TD
great.' It's not the equipment. I wonder how TD would have sounded in the
early 80's if they had their present keyboards and sequencing gear... Would
they have overlooked the 'easy way out' with the built in sounds and gone
for the best musical output possible?
#3 Excellent sound research.
TD was very much involved in the electronic music revolution. They were
on the cutting edge of technology and making their flaky equipment do
things the designers never intended. Many synth companies got feedback from
TD on how to improve their products. What does TD do now? They lay MIDI
tracks on top of each other on an airplane.
There are tracks from the 90's that approach the compositional
robustness of the 70's and 80's tracks, they are just few and far between.
Some people don't like Dream Mixes. I personally love it, because to me, it
sounds like Jerome learned from Logos and Poland. I don't know if he used
those as inspiration, but the TD 'sound' is present in Dream Mixes and
tracks from Oasis more than anything else they've produced in the past 10
years or so.
>Surely the less time they spend reasearching sounds (which there are many
more
>people
>doing now than there were in the early 80's!) the more time can be devoted to
>creating
>better album, in terms of compostion, mixing, production etc.
I wholeheartedly disagree. TD should have put on the brakes in 1984 like
Chris Franke and Johannes Schmoelling wanted and stopped for a year.
Instead, Edgar went on a rampage doing more soundtracks between 84-89 than
James Horner. The more music you crank out per year, the lower the quality.
I could stand ONE release every two years if it meant the music would be
fresh and exciting.
>I know I'm biased (prefer 90's stuff to 70's/some 80's) but if the music
is good
>who cares
>what was used to create it? I sometimes get the idea that some people on
this list
>are more
>interested in how an album was made than the music it contains.
Tangents proves that the old tracks can be rebuilt on present equipment. So
it's not the equipment, it's the mindset. Are we trying to create a
sequence that will confuse, bewilder and excite the listener and then
slowly come to order into an awesome track?
>Colin
>n.p. Iron Maiden--Powerslave
Morgan
feldon@p...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The #tadream channel on EFNET (Internet Relay Chat) is always open. I am
often away from the computer (my nickname is Optical1) so hang around for
an hour or so... you're bound to run into someone. Macintosh people should
download iRCLE version 3.0. Win31/95/NT users need mIRC (mirc.stealth.net)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 5:48
pm
Subject: Looking For Cat Scan + Others
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Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
Hi all
I am looking for the following _promos_:
Cat Scan US CD
Marakesh US CD
Towards The Evening Star US CD
Das Madchen Auf Der Treppe German CD
Anybody has any of the above to offer, please contact me off list to discuss
a price.
Greetings
Jeffrey
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 12:49
am
Subject: Re: D:Schulze
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Really-From: Philip Meyer
I've just got round to reading this mega-post about Klaus Schulze albums. I
recently bought a second-hand Historic Edition set, so I've suddenly become more
interested in KS! Your post was a really useful, informative review of his work
- thanks.
I have bought quite a few albums, but looks like I still have a long way to go!
I wondered which order you would put some of the albums that I am missing, so
that I know what ones to purchase next. I love electronic music with guitars
overlayed, so Dreams and In Blue should be high on the list, I suppose. My
favourite KS albums are probably Mirage and Moondawn. I don't like the spam
(vocals) or operatic style much.
I have all three of the 'Editions' sets now, so I wonder if any of the albums
that I haven't got are worth purchasing. Here's the ones that I haven't got
that sound interesting:
Trancefer
X
Body Love
Audentity
Dreams
Mediterranean Pads
Dome Event
In Blue
Are You Sequenced
Dosburg Online
Phil
--Phil Meyer--------------------------
phil@h...
amarok@c...
http://www.hergest.demon.co.uk
--------God loves his children, yeah--
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 6:54
pm
Subject: RE: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
> >Tangents proves that the old tracks can be rebuilt on present
> equipment. So
> >it's not the equipment, it's the mindset. Are we trying to create a
> >sequence that will confuse, bewilder and excite the listener and then
> >slowly come to order into an awesome track?
>
> I find myself agreeing with you. It's what you have, it's how you use
> it. Howard Stern's motto.
>
> Scott
>
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 7:38
pm
Subject: Re: D:Schulze
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: John Majka
>I've just got round to reading this mega-post about Klaus Schulze albums. I
>recently bought a second-hand Historic Edition set, so I've suddenly become
more
>interested in KS! Your post was a really useful, informative review of his
work
>- thanks.
>
>I have bought quite a few albums, but looks like I still have a long way to go!
>
>
>I wondered which order you would put some of the albums that I am missing, so
>that I know what ones to purchase next. I love electronic music with guitars
>overlayed, so Dreams and In Blue should be high on the list, I suppose. My
>favourite KS albums are probably Mirage and Moondawn. I don't like the spam
>(vocals) or operatic style much.
>
>I have all three of the 'Editions' sets now, so I wonder if any of the albums
>that I haven't got are worth purchasing. Here's the ones that I haven't got
>that sound interesting:
>
>Trancefer
>X
>Body Love
>Audentity
>Dreams
>Mediterranean Pads
>Dome Event
>In Blue
>Are You Sequenced
>Dosburg Online
Well, 'X' is a really good one. One of the tracks is quite classical, with
some very nice strings and a Cello on it. 'Dome Event' is almost completely
unstructured and, in my opinion, fairly irritating to listen to, as it is
mainly just a collage of sounds without any 'playing' that I remember,
although it has been some time since I last listened to it, so I could be
wrong. 'Audentity' is experimental and often formless in nature...maybe I
just haven't listened to it enough. I didn't really like it all that much.
Of the albums you list, I think the best ones are 'X', 'Trancefer' and 'In
Blue'.
John Majka
flossbac@w...
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 7:54
pm
Subject: random thought
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Really-From: PENFOLD
If you get a million monkeys on a million pianos for a million years, you
will never get the entire score of John Cage's 4'33' - PENFOLD
mailto:penfold@a...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 2:55
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
Hi, tadreamers!
When you listen to a classic guitar, or a saxophone, do you realize it is a
'preset'?
E-music is appreciable by the electronic special effets (e-sfx) you put
around the music.
What do you think of 'Towards the Evening Star'? The sounds are great,
aren't they? Preset? Never mind! Idem with 'Timesquare', 'Summer storm',
'Galley Slave's Horizon', ... etc.
Greetings
Fred
np : Klaus Schulze 'X' ; BTW : I bought this album two days ago and just
found out this morning (under the shower) 'X' stands for 10 in Latin, 'cause
it's the tenth album solo of KS. Clever, no? The discography in 'En=trance'
gave me reason! One thing I do not understand with KS : he says 'I dedicate
this album to my precious synthesizers'. What do that mean?
PS : the start of one track in 'X' (I think #3) sound like the start of
'Force Majeure'. Does anyone know the name of the synth used? PPG?
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From:
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Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 8:24
pm
Subject: Re: Cnc-Humor: random thought
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Really-From: David Blaettler
I dunno, if you don't feed them.... I think you would get it.
Dave
p.s. sorry for all the people who like monkeys ;)
PENFOLD wrote:
> If you get a million monkeys on a million pianos for a million years, you
> will never get the entire score of John Cage's 4'33' - PENFOLD
> mailto:penfold@a...
>
> *****************************************************************************
> cnc-humor is a geeky humor list, send email to: listmanager@c...
> with subscribe cnc-humor (or unsubscribe) in the body of the message to
> subscribe (unsubscribe) from this list.
> Submit *new* geeky humor items to cnc-humor@c...
> *****************************************************************************
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 8:43
pm
Subject: Re: Looking For Cat Scan + Others
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Really-From: Vic Rek
> Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
> I am looking for the following _promos_:
>
> Cat Scan US CD
Me too, but I also need 'Desert Train' US Promo CD :-)
I have some very rare items I can offer for trade.
Vic
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 10:40
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: 'Marcel Engels'
>Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>
>PS : the start of one track in 'X' (I think #3) sound like the start of
>'Force Majeure'. Does anyone know the name of the synth used? PPG?
Yep, it sounds the same on track 2/disc1.
It's not a specific synth you're hearing, it's a synth-sound (any will do)
thru
an fx-processor. The fx is a harmonizer/pitch shifter with some sort of
feedback.
Correct me if I'm wrong :-)
Marcel
Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels
Email :fsp@w...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: A 'Desert Train' Promo CD?!? Oh no, Lars! ;)
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:43:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: Looking For Cat Scan + Others
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: Vic Rek
>
>> I am looking for the following _promos_:
>> Cat Scan US CD
>
>Me too, but I also need 'Desert Train' US Promo CD :-)
Is this for real, or a joke? (I ask this because even though
'Desert Train' is one of my fave TD tracks, a certain guy named Lars
likes to tease me that liking it as much as I do demonstrates a lack
of discernment or somesuch on my part.)
If this is a real item, what is the difference (if any) between
this version and the version found on MELROSE? Is it shorter and/or
remixed, an edit, a truncation . . . what?
-- Steven Feldman
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' -- Albert Einstein |
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 11:00
pm
Subject: RE: RE: Digital Sister/Nothing Really Matters
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Really-From: 'Jim Moore'
> 2.) JUNGLE JACULA
> Roaring of the Bliss (THE PRIVATE MUSIC OF TANGERINE DREAM)
> 5.) PIXEL PIRATES
> Dreamtime and Towards the Evening Star
> 7.) TIMESQUARE
> Loved by the Sun (LEGEND)
> Change of the Gods (THE DREAM MIXES)
While I hear some similar sound effects in each of these groupings, I
don't hear them as being remixes of the songs. 'Pixel Pirates' seems to
have
the rhythm of 'Lamb w/ Radar Eyes', but that's the only part I can really
trace back to another song. 'Timesquare' uses a lot of chord progressions,
as does 'Loved', but I don't see any similarities anywhere else.
Oh, well, maybe I need to get my hearing checked...
- jim
'If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes...'
-- Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) Blade Runner, 1982
-----------------------------------------------------
'jimbo@v...' is Jim Moore, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Home Page: http://www.jimbo.vivid.net
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 11:49
pm
Subject: LOART CDR
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Really-From: KRAUSENECKS
Hey guys,
Whatever has happened to the collective cdr of all the different versions
of LOART? Did this ever come about? If it has, someone let me know as I have
not heard hide nor hair 'bout it sincd a few months ago.
PS If you havent gotten Luminous Visions -do do , I love putting it on the
surround system while I clean house, best image of sight and sound so far!
Chris
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 1:12
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: 'Gilles Nadeau'
Lawry,
I agree with You, TD is not the same sound as yesterday, but depends of my
feel, I like the new sound. When I want different sounds, I like Klaus
Schulze, right now I listen to INTER*FACE the new re - master album from
Manikin Rercords.
Tomorrow Saturday the 21th I'll bought TD Alpha Centaury/Zeit/Polland the
Warsaw Concert Not the extract CD, The intro of that album is GREAT...
Hatteras.....
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 2:02
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: feldon@p...
At 03:55 PM 3/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>
>Hi, tadreamers!
>
>When you listen to a classic guitar, or a saxophone, do you realize it is a
>'preset'?
Oh god.. I was half-expecting this argument. Ok, let's put it this way. TD
is playing with $50 guitars right now. They need to beef up the sound
quality of the instrumentation, which includes better more analogue
sounding samples. Did I make it easy enough to understand?
>E-music is appreciable by the electronic special effets (e-sfx) you put
>around the music.
My point exactly. But not the ethereal twinklings, jungle crap, and techno
leftovers that are being thrown in just for shits and giggles...
>What do you think of 'Towards the Evening Star'? The sounds are great,
>aren't they? Preset? Never mind! Idem with 'Timesquare', 'Summer storm',
>'Galley Slave's Horizon', ... etc.
Nope, the sound effects and samples aren't really that great. Certainly not
as enrapturing as an old frequency generator going through an analogue FX box.
>Fred
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 2:37
am
Subject: Re: D:Ambient Monkeys
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Really-From: Vic Rek
>Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
>At first, I didn't know what to make of this album. It is very strange. The
>obvious
>snag with this release is the lack of cue points. Not really a problem for
>me,
>because I always listen to the whole cd, in order...(I'm not a 'skip this
>track -
>shuffle these tracks' sort of guy), but it can be a bit of a pain in the
>arse
>occasionally.
Yes, I agree with all of the above. I don't really consider this a regular
TD release, but I think it's unique and fills that strange mood you may be
in. A little techno, ambient, classical, electronic, jungle/train sounds
and then you have a potpourri of a release that can satisfy just as much as
irritate. This would not be a CD I would say 'Hey, I'll play Ambient Monkeys
when I get home tonite', but then I may just stumble on to it and drift off
into a deep sleep...
Vic
NP: Ambient Monkeys - Lemon Vendor Khaly (but I can't identify it either -
sounds like off a piece of Rockoon or maybe a late 80's soundtrack).
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 3:05
am
Subject: Re: D:Schulze
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Really-From: AOutland
In a message dated 98-03-20 14:41:19 EST, you write:John
<< 'Dome Event' is almost completely
unstructured and, in my opinion, fairly irritating to listen to, >>
Agreed except for a piece in the middle which is frantically excellent.
You can get this piece (and several other samples of KS music) on The
Essential: 72-93. IMO this is all you need of KS music. Dell
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 7:16
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: 'Greg Heil'
> >What do you think of 'Towards the Evening Star'? The sounds are great,
> >aren't they? Preset? Never mind! Idem with 'Timesquare', 'Summer storm',
> >'Galley Slave's Horizon', ... etc.
>
> Nope, the sound effects and samples aren't really that great. Certainly
not
> as enrapturing as an old frequency generator going through an analogue FX
box.
>
> >Fred
>
> Morgan
> feldon@p...
First, after listening to a number of modern day E-music CDs,
I know that the quailty of sound (noise, pureness of sound) is not
totally there in TD's current releases. The problem I see is that
when the tracks become so complex as to have guitars, vocals,
symphonies, and real percussion, (a VERY good example is
'At Darwin's Motel'), the sound becomes muddled, and hard
to listen to.
'Oasis' is a wonderful album, but even there, you can
tell that to an extent, it's been done on a sound stage, the
samples have that cold, concrete echo sound.
So what can this be blamed upon? Well maybe since
it's all fed into computers, it could depend upon the hardware
of the computers they use. If it's some crumby built in 16-bit
soundcard--well that's a disgrace. I don't think it's that bad, but
again, I think during the mixing process, and the sampleing
process, some quaility is lost.
For pureness of sound, I like to listen to 'Logos',
'Tangram', 'Underwater Sunlight', 'Melrose', 'White
Eagle', and 'The Dream Mixes.'
Do you think it could possibly due to Edgar's ears not
being what they used to be? I think Jerome's work is more
aurally perfect.
Greg H.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 1:38
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>>PS : the start of one track in 'X' (I think #3) sound like the start of
>>'Force Majeure'. Does anyone know the name of the synth used? PPG?
>
>
>Yep, it sounds the same on track 2/disc1.
>It's not a specific synth you're hearing, it's a synth-sound (any will do)
>thru
>an fx-processor. The fx is a harmonizer/pitch shifter with some sort of
>feedback.
>Correct me if I'm wrong :-)
>
>Marcel
>Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels
>Email :fsp@w...
>
Alright, I see! I can do it with my SPX-90!
Thanx for the tip, well done ;-))
Fred
np : 'Rumpelstiltskin' in the latest Andy Summers album...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 1:40
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>
> I agree with You, TD is not the same sound as yesterday, but depends of my
>feel, I like the new sound. When I want different sounds, I like Klaus
>Schulze, right now I listen to INTER*FACE the new re - master album from
>Manikin Rercords.
>
Could you please tell us what about this new re-master? Brings something
new? 20-bit remaster?
Thanx in advance and greetings to all
Fred
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 1:46
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
The important thing is : someone like me - and I know by reading the mail
that I'm not the only one - take pleasure (great pleasure) hearing to many
many tracks from TD - any period, not only this one color from Schmoelling
period.
If I tell you, Morgan, that I listened to 'Electronic Meditation' & 'Alpha
centauri' a few days ago, and that I took much more pleasure than usually...
you'll think I got completly mad!? no?
Fred
>>When you listen to a classic guitar, or a saxophone, do you realize it is
a
>>'preset'?
>
>Oh god.. I was half-expecting this argument. Ok, let's put it this way. TD
>is playing with $50 guitars right now. They need to beef up the sound
>quality of the instrumentation, which includes better more analogue
>sounding samples. Did I make it easy enough to understand?
>
>>E-music is appreciable by the electronic special effets (e-sfx) you put
>>around the music.
>
>My point exactly. But not the ethereal twinklings, jungle crap, and techno
>leftovers that are being thrown in just for shits and giggles...
>
>>What do you think of 'Towards the Evening Star'? The sounds are great,
>>aren't they? Preset? Never mind! Idem with 'Timesquare', 'Summer storm',
>>'Galley Slave's Horizon', ... etc.
>
>Nope, the sound effects and samples aren't really that great. Certainly not
>as enrapturing as an old frequency generator going through an analogue FX
box.
>
>>Fred
>
>Morgan
>feldon@p...
>
>
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 1:49
pm
Subject: Lineup wanted
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
Hello again!
I would like to know the location and the lineup of the 'Garten of Pharaos'
album.
Bristol : in the US? like said in the picture disc? or in UK? because the
Calston Hall (or something like that) exists in Bristol, UK (searched on the
net).
CF must have left then... who replaced? Jerome was he present?
Thanx for any info!
Fred
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Sat
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3 KB
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Re: Lineup wanted
Andrew J. Rozsa
Sat
3/21/1998
3 KB
12228
Re: Lineup wanted
Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
Mon
3/23/1998
4 KB
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 1:56
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>First, after listening to a number of modern day E-music CDs,
>I know that the quailty of sound (noise, pureness of sound) is not
>totally there in TD's current releases. The problem I see is that
>when the tracks become so complex as to have guitars, vocals,
>symphonies, and real percussion, (a VERY good example is
>'At Darwin's Motel'), the sound becomes muddled, and hard
>to listen to.
> 'Oasis' is a wonderful album, but even there, you can
>tell that to an extent, it's been done on a sound stage, the
>samples have that cold, concrete echo sound.
> So what can this be blamed upon? Well maybe since
>it's all fed into computers, it could depend upon the hardware
>of the computers they use. If it's some crumby built in 16-bit
>soundcard--well that's a disgrace. I don't think it's that bad, but
>again, I think during the mixing process, and the sampleing
>process, some quaility is lost.
> For pureness of sound, I like to listen to 'Logos',
>'Tangram', 'Underwater Sunlight', 'Melrose', 'White
>Eagle', and 'The Dream Mixes.'
> Do you think it could possibly due to Edgar's ears not
>being what they used to be? I think Jerome's work is more
>aurally perfect.
>
>Greg H.
OK, and you'll remark that 'Logos, blue part' in the 'Tangent' box has some
distortion, as often with TD/EF releases... but that's another point (the
quality) which has not to be with the originality of compositions and/or SFX
and/or sounds (preset or not).
Aren't we fond of bootlegs, the sound of which is not always perfect
(euphemistic!)?
Fred
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 6:49
pm
Subject: Re: Lineup wanted
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Really-From: Dennis Nigbur
On Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:49:45 +0100 tadream mailing list
wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
> message body. You MUST do this from the address you subscribed with.
> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>
>
> Hello again!
>
> I would like to know the location and the lineup of the 'Garten of Pharaos'
> album.
>
> Bristol : in the US? like said in the picture disc? or in UK? because the
> Calston Hall (or something like that) exists in Bristol, UK (searched on the
> net).
>
> CF must have left then... who replaced? Jerome was he present?
>
> Thanx for any info!
>
> Fred
The concert was in Bristol, UK. Jerome was probably
present, as he joined the group for 'Melrose', some of the
tracks from which were played at that concert. I don't know
about the rest.
Dennis
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 6:59
pm
Subject: Re: Asimov Concept
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Really-From: Dennis Nigbur
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:42:01 -0500 (EST) tadream mailing
list wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To remove yourself from this list, send a message to majordomo@c... that
> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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> The List owner does not read this list. Complaining here is useless.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
>
> On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
>
> > Really-From: Dennis Nigbur
> >
> >
> > > I see TD more in the sword-and-sorcery vein : grand, mysterious, magical.
> > > Clearly, they have visited this ground with Legend. I think their (old)
> > > sweeping symphonic style maps more clearly onto my visualisation of the
themes
> > > for S&S than onto SF.
> >
> > Have you read Asimov's Extended Foundation Cycle (an epic
> > comprising ca. 15 novels)?? Sounds grand and mysterious
> > enough for a TD soundtrack, in my opinion. I agree that
> > Kraftwerk would fit in well with the short stories, but
> > Asimov goes far beyond those.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
>
> I've managed to track down all but the Empire novels.
>
> I just figure, if Mike Oldfield could make an Arthur C. Clarke concept
> album work, why not TD and Asimov?
>
> Gabe
Good idea. That might be an opportunity for them to get
spacey once again.
Dennis
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 7:02
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: Dennis Nigbur
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:49:33 -0800 tadream mailing list
wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> says: 'unsubscribe tadream' and 'unsubscribe tadream-digest' in the
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>
>
> > Really-From: feldon@p...
> >
> > >Really-From: Colin Knowles
> >>
> > >Just what do you mean by presets? Standard bass
> > >paterns? Standard sounds or what?
> > >
> > >Surely if your going to use a wood block as a
> > >rythum (?) line there is only one sound
> > > to use...No?
> >
> > TD is using the built-in sound samples of all the keyboards they have and
> > it sounds like a drummer using a $150 drumset. Before 1985, TD was
> > WORLD-REKNOWNED for digitizing and researching their OWN sound effects
> and
> > sound samples. Now, it seems like they just settle for whatever the
> > keyboards will spit out. These keyboards have megabytes of memory to hold
> > ANY sample they so choose. Why don't they do this? The last sampling I've
> > heard of any note was Jerome grabbing a snippet of Darth Vader (Star
> Wars)...
>
> In fact, wasn't Mssr. Franke the chief Mad Scientist of Sound Synthesis &
> Generation of Projekt: Tang? About the time he left (mid 80s) is pretty
> much when TD's palette began to sound more and more as though made up of
> *stock* sounds.
>
> E
As far as I know, Chris, Johannes, and Peter were the
people involved in sound synthesis. Edgar never seemed to
be equally into it. That might come with being a guitar
player, although the guitarists on the list will probably
disagree with me on that one. I agree about the period you
pinpoint for the decline in original sounds.
Dennis
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 9:00
pm
Subject: Pre-sets and Redshifts 'Ether'
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Really-From: 'ashok prema'
It does seem to me that the 'presets again' camp are usually musicians who
know the patches as being from specific synths - but do non-musicians feel
the same way?? I imagine they're not bothered if the DX7 'log drums' or
whatever is repeated on various albums - if in fact they even
notice..........the other point is - nobody complains that a pianist uses
the same sound throughout not just one concert - but concert after concert!
or that orchestras use the same sounds time and time again ie real violins
and the rest - so why he complaint that TD are using presets - surely they
are merely using the technology of the day as Chopin and Bach did in
theirs..........back in the mid 70's and early 80's - their simply was not
the dearth of sounds available - so TD were forced to be more creative in
their sounds - and in any case - to most ears a Moog modular sounds just
like.........well a Moog modular time and time again - How many sounds on
say 'Stratosfear' sound so uniquely different to the untrained ear that
they stand out?? - Seems to me, that the sound of that album is much like
the sound on 'Ricochet' and 'Encore'
Oh Yeh.......Ether is now officially available!!!!
A couple of you have pre-paid for their copy - .........err....can they
contact me off-line so that I can ship their order? I've lost the snail
mail addresses .........SORRY!!!
Anybody who can't get a copy through the usual outlets or don't wish to wait
that long can get copies from me direct.......please e-mail me
off-line.......US price inc postage etc will be $20 - payable best by
ash - otherwise bank charges will be incurred unless your bank is
represented in the UK.
You might like to take the opportunity to also order my cd 'Stranger in a
Strange Land' or/and Paul Lawlers 'Year Zero' at the same time ........add
an extra $15 per disc.
Ash Prema
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 10:03
pm
Subject: Re: tape tree 1, call for participation
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Really-From: 'Just this guy who is pretty cool...'
uhhh..
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 10:31
pm
Subject: Re: Pre-sets and Redshifts 'Ether'
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: 'ashok prema'
>
> It does seem to me that the 'presets again' camp are usually musicians who
> know the patches as being from specific synths - but do non-musicians feel
> the same way?? I imagine they're not bothered if the DX7 'log drums' or
> whatever is repeated on various albums - if in fact they even
> notice..........the other point is - nobody complains that a pianist uses
> the same sound throughout not just one concert - but concert after concert!
> or that orchestras use the same sounds time and time again ie real violins
> and the rest - so why he complaint that TD are using presets - surely they
> are merely using the technology of the day as Chopin and Bach did in
> theirs..........back in the mid 70's and early 80's - their simply was not
> the dearth of sounds available - so TD were forced to be more creative in
uh, don't you mean 'glut' here? 'Dearth' is a scarcity.
> their sounds - and in any case - to most ears a Moog modular sounds just
> like.........well a Moog modular time and time again - How many sounds on
> say 'Stratosfear' sound so uniquely different to the untrained ear that
> they stand out?? - Seems to me, that the sound of that album is much like
> the sound on 'Ricochet' and 'Encore'
Well, that's the problem Ash. If the box HAS sound synthesis capability,
why not use it, rather than the preset sounds? Why not use the
technology for what it was intended, instead of a 150-200 year-old approach?
Granted, I know there ARE certain instruments around that really are just
sample boxes, but I mean, in the case of the Morpheus--has TD ever REALLY
USED a Morpheus, I know they have one--why stick with whatever sounds the
thing has built in, when it is an instrument that offers so much potential?
On the other hand, all of these new 'virtual analog' synths that have
come out over the past 2 years come pre-loaded with loads patches that
sound...pretty much like wht you would expect out of analog synthesizers.
Granted, they offer the sound creation *flexibility* of their ancestors,
combined with the enhanced capabilities of modern equipment, and full
MIDI compatibility, but what is it that most people want them for? To
sound just like stuff from bloody 20-25 years ago don't they? DON'T THEY???
I simply don't understand what this continued loathing of 'modern, digital'
sounds is founded on.
Gabe
> Ash Prema
Gabe
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 11:31
pm
Subject: Re: Lineup wanted
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Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa'
At 02:49 PM 3/21/1998 +0100, Fred wrote:
>
>I would like to know the location and the lineup of the 'Garten of Pharaos'
>album.
>
>Bristol : in the US? like said in the picture disc? or in UK? because the
>Calston Hall (or something like that) exists in Bristol, UK (searched on the
>net).
>
>CF must have left then... who replaced? Jerome was he present?
Bristol, UK, 11 Nov. 1990
Line-up: E. Froese, J. Froese, Haslinger, Spa. (from 'Mysterious Semblance'
by Scott Plumer)
Stuff made, according to THE source:
06.11.90 Bristol (Part I) 'Bicycle Race'
46' LP
06.11.90 Bristol (Part II) 'In den Gaerten Pharaos'
75' CD
06.11.90 Bristol Part I 'Singet, denn der Gesang..' PICTURE DISK 48' LP
'In den Gaerten Pharaos/Bicycle Race' CP 091381-2 TD 97 369 56-2 AT
I. IN DEN GAERTEN PHARAOS
1. Chor de Sterne
2. Schattentanz
3. Erstes Morgenrot
4. Karawane am Meer
5. Treibsand
6. Erscheinung
7. Im Tal der Pharaonen
8. Die Sonne verduestert sich allmaehlich
II. BICYCLE RACE
9. Sequence I
10. Sequence II
11. Sequence III
12. Sequence IV
Total time: 74'45'
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 1:10
am
Subject: Re: Lineup wanted
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Really-From: Vic Rek
>Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa'
>Stuff made, according to THE source:
>
>06.11.90 Bristol (Part I) 'Bicycle Race'
> 46' LP
>06.11.90 Bristol (Part II) 'In den Gaerten Pharaos'
> 75' CD
>06.11.90 Bristol Part I 'Singet, denn der Gesang..' PICTURE DISK 48' LP
>
>'In den Gaerten Pharaos/Bicycle Race' CP 091381-2 TD 97 369 56-2 AT
Talk about overkill... There are plenty more shows where such attention
should be diverted to. By the way, the Bicycle Race LP comes in at least
3-4 different coloured vinyls. I have the purple vinyl with green
glow-in-the-dark dots ;-)
Vic
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 2:55
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: 'Gilles Nadeau'
----------
>
> >
> > I agree with You, TD is not the same sound as yesterday, but depends of
my
> >feel, I like the new sound. When I want different sounds, I like Klaus
> >Schulze, right now I listen to INTER*FACE the new re - master album from
> >Manikin Rercords.
> >
> Could you please tell us what about this new re-master? Brings something
> new? 20-bit remaster?
>
> Thanx in advance and greetings to all
>
> Fred
>
>
Fred!
I checked in the web site's of Manikin Records and Klaus Schulze 's site
and I didn't find if this re-release is 20-bit. But let me say when i heard
this album with my Quad-Kef it's sound GREAT.
It's been a long time i heard this album and I can say to You, it's a
great album. At this time I listen to the re-release of LIVE on CD from
Manikin. The peace now playing is the last one on cd 2 with Arthur Brown -
voice...
For this release, they pick the total time for SENSE ==51:00M. INSTEAD OF
31m in the album.This album is a good feeling about KS 80's sound before
the great AUDENTITY.
>>>Hatteras in Quebec
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 9:11
am
Subject: TD Concert
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: DAVENTURA
I just got my CDR of the Ventura show, November 1, 1992. Thanks Vic. Seems
I've been listening to it already as 220 Volt. Wish I hadn't fallen asleep at
the show. It had been a really long week. My unconscious mind was definetely
listening though. Must be why I like 220 Volt so much. Now on to Electronic
Orgy. I will provide a complete critique tomorrow, because i know how my
opinions mean so much to you all...David
n.p. TD...Ventura..Disc 2
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 2:36
pm
Subject: Steven is right about the Keep 1986 (?) LP!!
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Really-From: Dennis Nigbur
I'd never have thought I'd ever write a message about KEEP
technicalities...
I met a bloke who said he'd heard of TD, although he wasn't
majorly into it. When I asked him if he had any of their
albums, he said that the ones he had were Firestarter
and... The Keep! For some reason, I didn't think much about
it then (probably assuming that it was the TDI version he
had), and told him about the discussions going on on this
list about whether there was a release of the soundtrack
when the film came out, or whether it remained unreleased.
Well, he didn't comment then, but when I bumped into him
again in the pub last night, he told me it was in fact the
1986 (or whatever) LP that he had...he'd got it at the car
boot sale for three pounds...and a few weeks ago, when he
was in dire need of money, he'd advertised it on the
internet and sold it for Ģ300! He said he'd tried to get in
touch with me about whether I wanted it and how much I'd
pay for it, but he didn't know where to find me... how
annoying.
Bottom line is, then, that the LP does exist, and that a
few copies seem to be floating around. I only wish I'd been
able to lay my hands on that one...
Dennis
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 5:36
pm
Subject: TD tape or CDR trades?
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: John Majka
Hi, I'm wondering if anyone on the list is interested in trading TD tapes
(or in this age, CDRs). I have about 5 or 6 TD tapes, but I have about 300
tapes by other bands. I would be interested in tracking down some good
soundboard or radio appearance tapes of the band. Is this stuff out there?
John Majka
flossbac@w...
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 7:14
pm
Subject: Re: Steven is right about the Keep 1986 (?) LP!!
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Really-From: DJS
> Bottom line is, then, that the LP does exist, and that a
> few copies seem to be floating around. I only wish I'd been
> able to lay my hands on that one...
>
> Dennis
Yeah...I had ET come down from his planet to visit me a few years ago. I
wished I'd taken some pictures of him...now no one will believe he
actually came to visit me. Damn!
Dano
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 6:45
pm
Subject: Re: TD tape or CDR trades?
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Really-From: DAVENTURA
In a message dated 98-03-22 12:39:05 EST, you write:
<< Really-From: John Majka
I have about 5 or 6 TD tapes>>
Time to catch up, buddy. We're not waiting for ya...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 6:52
pm
Subject: Now Playing
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Really-From: DAVENTURA
Just picked up Christopher Franke's Enchanting Nature. Thanks Vic. Damn, what
a rip off. Glad I didn't buy it. It is almost completely Pacific Coast
Highway, with different titles. OK, spent all night listening to EO. Can't
really see what all the hoopla is about. I better listen to it again....David
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sat Mar 21, 1998 10:49
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: feldon@p...
At 02:46 PM 3/21/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
>
>The important thing is : someone like me - and I know by reading the mail
>that I'm not the only one - take pleasure (great pleasure) hearing to many
>many tracks from TD - any period, not only this one color from Schmoelling
>period.
I love Phaedra, Rubycon, bits of Live! Improvised! (1975 Rheims Cathedral
live concert), Stratosfear, Force Majeure, Encore, and even Bent Cold
Sidewalk from Cyclone, all pre-Schmoelling.
I love Dream Mixes, bits of Oasis (Waterbourne, Flashflood), 220 Volt Live,
Livemiles, and the Miracle Mile soundtrack, all post-Schmoelling.
>If I tell you, Morgan, that I listened to 'Electronic Meditation' & 'Alpha
>centauri' a few days ago, and that I took much more pleasure than usually...
>you'll think I got completly mad!? no?
Nope. I like 1973-1986 TD the most. And I have listened to Electronic
Medititation. TD's roots are found in that LP... they're just hard to find.
=) Same with Alpha Centauri, Zeit, and Green Desert.
They take a lot of listening. Actually, Tangram took me quite a few
listens. Listening to Quichoette was quite interesting. Pity that concert
hasn't appeared yet as a 2CD =) Electronic Orgy II perhaps? =)
>>>What do you think of 'Towards the Evening Star'? The sounds are great,
>>>aren't they? Preset? Never mind! Idem with 'Timesquare', 'Summer storm',
>>>'Galley Slave's Horizon', ... etc.
>>
>>Nope, the sound effects and samples aren't really that great. Certainly not
>>as enrapturing as an old frequency generator going through an analogue FX
>box.
>>
>>>Fred
>>
>>Morgan
>>feldon@p...
>>
> Fred
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 8:58
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: '=?iso-8859-1?B?RnLpZOlyaWMgWWFyZ3Vp?='
So, at first sight, we think different
But these mails proove we hear quite the same...
Dream On, everybody!
Fred
>>The important thing is : someone like me - and I know by reading the
mail
>>that I'm not the only one - take pleasure (great pleasure) hearing to many
>>many tracks from TD - any period, not only this one color from Schmoelling
>>period.
>
>I love Phaedra, Rubycon, bits of Live! Improvised! (1975 Rheims Cathedral
>live concert), Stratosfear, Force Majeure, Encore, and even Bent Cold
>Sidewalk from Cyclone, all pre-Schmoelling.
>
>I love Dream Mixes, bits of Oasis (Waterbourne, Flashflood), 220 Volt Live,
>Livemiles, and the Miracle Mile soundtrack, all post-Schmoelling.
>
>>If I tell you, Morgan, that I listened to 'Electronic Meditation' & 'Alpha
>>centauri' a few days ago, and that I took much more pleasure than
usually...
>>you'll think I got completly mad!? no?
>
>Nope. I like 1973-1986 TD the most. And I have listened to Electronic
>Medititation. TD's roots are found in that LP... they're just hard to find.
>=) Same with Alpha Centauri, Zeit, and Green Desert.
>
>They take a lot of listening. Actually, Tangram took me quite a few
>listens. Listening to Quichoette was quite interesting. Pity that concert
>hasn't appeared yet as a 2CD =) Electronic Orgy II perhaps? =)
>
>>>>What do you think of 'Towards the Evening Star'? The sounds are great,
>>>>aren't they? Preset? Never mind! Idem with 'Timesquare', 'Summer storm',
>>>>'Galley Slave's Horizon', ... etc.
>>>
>>>Nope, the sound effects and samples aren't really that great. Certainly
not
>>>as enrapturing as an old frequency generator going through an analogue FX
>>box.
>>>
>>>>Fred
>>>
>>>Morgan
>>>feldon@p...
>>>
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 11:39
am
Subject: pre-sets
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Really-From: 'ashok prema'
Gabe wrote:
> the dearth of sounds available - so TD were forced to be more creative in
uh, don't you mean 'glut' here? 'Dearth' is a scarcity.
> their sounds - and in any case - to most ears a
Yeh!! you're right......'glut' is the word !
Moog modular sounds just
> like.........well a Moog modular time and time again - How many sounds
on
> say 'Stratosfear' sound so uniquely different to the untrained ear that
> they stand out?? - Seems to me, that the sound of that album is much
like
> the sound on 'Ricochet' and 'Encore'
Well, that's the problem Ash. If the box HAS sound synthesis capability,
why not use it, rather than the preset sounds? Why not use the
technology for what it was intended, instead of a 150-200 year-old approach?
I accept that - but it's as valid to use the pre-sets - the old Moogs for
example, needed the sound to be created before you could proceeed to use
t - but the PPG's had pre-sets - and some of the pre-sets were great -
indeed common throughout the TD albums of the day - why the need to change
the sound if you as the composer like it??
I must add I am very guilty of this - preferring to have a module with
millions of sounds so I can go through it and choose the ones I want - I
can't be bothered faffing around with designing my own!!
>Granted, I know there ARE certain instruments
>On the other hand, all of these new 'virtual analog' >synths that have
>come out over the past 2 years come pre-loaded >with loads patches that
>sound...pretty much like wht you would expect out of >analog synthesizers.
>Granted, they offer the sound creation *flexibility* of >their ancestors,
>combined with the enhanced capabilities of modern >equipment, and full
>MIDI compatibility, but what is it that most people >want them for? To
>sound just like stuff from bloody 20-25 years ago >don't they? DON'T
THEY???
Isn't that the truth!!......get a new keyboard and the reviews say 'Great!!
sounds just like the Jupiter 8'.......
>I simply don't understand what this continued >loathing of 'modern,
digital'
>sounds is founded on.
>Gabe
Me too!.....I like the clarity of the sounds - 'Le Parc' was great because
the whole album seems 'cleaner' than the earlier stuff - although best when
interspersed with the warmth of the analogues.
Ash
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12233
Re: pre-sets
feldon@p...
Mon
3/23/1998
5 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 11:02
pm
Subject: Re: Now Playing
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Really-From: feldon@p...
At 01:52 PM 3/22/98 EST, you wrote:
>Really-From: DAVENTURA
>
>
>Just picked up Christopher Franke's Enchanting Nature. Thanks Vic. Damn, what
>a rip off. Glad I didn't buy it. It is almost completely Pacific Coast
>Highway, with different titles. OK, spent all night listening to EO. Can't
>really see what all the hoopla is about. I better listen to it again....David
I guess you already had all this stuff, Dave. Hrmm, I love it. EO is
rarities galore. Can't wait for Electronic Orgy 2...
Disc 1: Excerpts from Live! Improvised! (disc 1) 12:**
Excerpts from Live! Improvised! (disc 2) 18:**
Pergamon (unreleased tracks) **:**
unknown how much there is of this...
Pergamon Encore 13:52
Disc 2: Logostypes-Unreleased Tracks **:**
The Keep, The Soldier, and 2 unreleased tracks.
Choronzon-Exit (Extended Logostypes version) 6:**
Mojave Plan (Extended Logostypes version) 1*:**
Midnight in Tula (Encore #2 from Logos concert) 3:42
'The Keep' Long Ending *:**
Livemiles (unreleased/remixed)
Disc 3: Livemiles (unreleased/remixed)
Harrogate 1986 unreleased 3:21
Stratosfear 1986 6:41
Harrogate 1986 unreleased 14:53
Paul Haslinger Piano Solo -sorta like Ricochet pt 2 4:02
Mozart Solo into Rarebird 5:44
Bois De Bologne 5:42
Unreleased Toronto 6/21/86 5:50
Vermillion Sands w/ Guitar Solo 10:52
Help me out on disc 4 guys, and/or make suggestions on the others... I was
going to excerpt Quinoa but that would get Edgar really really interested
in shutting the project down...
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 5:59
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: Paul Nagle
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:55:52 +0100, tadream@c... (tadream
mailing list) wrote:
>PS : the start of one track in 'X' (I think #3) sound like the start of
>'Force Majeure'. Does anyone know the name of the synth used? PPG?
Cello?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------
www.softroom.demon.co.uk
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 5:59
am
Subject: Re: Pre-sets and Redshifts 'Ether'
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Really-From: Paul Nagle
On Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:00:38 -0000, tadream@c... (tadream
mailing list) wrote:
>notice..........the other point is - nobody complains that a pianist uses
>the same sound throughout not just one concert - but concert after concert!
A pianist by definition plays a piano - an unchanging sound. A
synthesist plays a synthesizer.
;-)
Paul (Hey Ash - shame you weren't at AC - you missed the best
Electronic Music concert I personally have ever seen. ARC were simply
SUPERB. Everyone should buy the album now and hear what living,
breathing synthesizer players can really do.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
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www.softroom.demon.co.uk
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Redshift's ETHER, Ash's STRANGER..., Lawler's YEAR ZERO
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:00:38 -0000
>Subject Re: Pre-sets and Redshifts 'Ether'
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: ashok prema
>
>Oh Yeh.......Ether is now officially available!!!!
Yay! :)
>[. . .] .......US price inc postage etc will be $20 -- payable best by
>cash -- otherwise bank charges will be incurred unless your bank is
>represented in the UK.
What do you mean by 'bank charges will be incurred'? I have a few
bank accounts (I don't have much money, just different accounts because
some accounts have better/differetn features than others), and one of
them -- Bank of Boston -- I believe is connected to British interests.
Maybe I could go that route in ordering. Will there be a surcharge, or
how does it work? I've done credit card business overseas with British
companies four times, now, without a problem (two orders from VoicePrint
and two from The Cinema Store).
>You might like to take the opportunity to also order my cd 'Stranger in
>a Strange Land' or/and Paul Lawlers 'Year Zero' at the same time
>........add an extra $15 per disc.
Can anybody give a capsule description or review of Ash's album,
here? (And if anyone has something overly critical to say about it,
private e-mail would probably be a better idea.) Also, who is Paul
Lawler?
-- Steven Feldman
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 3:25
am
Subject: Re: pre-sets
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Really-From: Gabe Yedid
On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
> Really-From: 'ashok prema'
> Gabe wrote:
>
> Well, that's the problem Ash. If the box HAS sound synthesis capability,
> why not use it, rather than the preset sounds? Why not use the
> technology for what it was intended, instead of a 150-200 year-old approach?
>
> I accept that - but it's as valid to use the pre-sets - the old Moogs for
> example, needed the sound to be created before you could proceeed to use
> t - but the PPG's had pre-sets - and some of the pre-sets were great -
> indeed common throughout the TD albums of the day - why the need to change
> the sound if you as the composer like it??
Well, this is true. If the sound fits the composer's purposes--indeed,
if he actually really likes it, and it's exactly what he wants--then by
all means, he should use it. _Beyond The Storm_ is chock full of uses of
presets, yet ones which are completely appropriate to (what I see as) the
Froeseian 'idiom'.
However, this still doesn't change the fact that you are still using the
synth as little more than a glorified electronic organ with bazillions of
'stops'. (and even most good organs have some kind of sound modulation
capability, even if it's just a tremolo)
> I must add I am very guilty of this - preferring to have a module with
> millions of sounds so I can go through it and choose the ones I want - I
> can't be bothered faffing around with designing my own!!
Mmm, that's a bit of a risky admission Ash ;)
> >Granted, they offer the sound creation *flexibility* of >their ancestors,
> >combined with the enhanced capabilities of modern >equipment, and full
> >MIDI compatibility, but what is it that most people >want them for? To
> >sound just like stuff from bloody 20-25 years ago >don't they? DON'T
> THEY???
>
> Isn't that the truth!!......get a new keyboard and the reviews say 'Great!!
> sounds just like the Jupiter 8'.......
Well, it's a buyer's market, not at all helped by the fact that so many
artists actually WANT to stick to that old sound. It's why I keep saying
all the innovation has gone out of e-music.
> >I simply don't understand what this continued >loathing of 'modern,
> digital'
> >sounds is founded on.
> >Gabe
>
> Me too!.....I like the clarity of the sounds - 'Le Parc' was great because
> the whole album seems 'cleaner' than the earlier stuff - although best when
> interspersed with the warmth of the analogues.
Well, up to a point I guess. It's not just the method of sound
generation of the synths, it's also the production. Yes, _Le
Parc_'s cleanliness and balance between old and new sounds was
great. However, _Optical Race_ is, IMO, the apotheosis of the overly
clean, crisp digital sound and production. Contrast this with _Lily_ and
_Melrose_ which use virtually the same synth equipment but sound much
warmer and more natural.
>
> Ash
Gabe
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Re: pre-sets
feldon@p...
Mon
3/23/1998
5 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 2:55
pm
Subject: Re: Electric Orgy and similar CDs
Hallo,
I am fresh here, so I ask all of the people of good will for help. My name is Marek, I am 31 years old, a doctor, and I listen to TD since 1980.
Does anyone know where to get 'Electronic Orgy' 4-CD set? Maybe anyone has spare other TD live CDs to sell? If You're willing, You can E-mail me: markmast@kki.net.pl.
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12222
Re: Electric Orgy and similar CDs
Jens Peschke
Mon
3/23/1998
5 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 8:21
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
> Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
> > Really-From: 'ashok prema'
>
> > I must add I am very guilty of this - preferring to have a module with
> > millions of sounds so I can go through it and choose the ones I want -
I
> > can't be bothered faffing around with designing my own!!
>
> Mmm, that's a bit of a risky admission Ash ;)
Well, I'm sure the man has a day job as well as a label to maintain whilst
also pursuing his musical exploits. Factors like that are time-limiting,
and sound-sculpting is a delicate process.
I'd like to know what percentage of Marcel Engels,' a.k.a. Free System
Projekt, sounds are programmed and what percentage are stock. Impulse and
Substance have a lot of nice, warm sounds on 'em.
By the way, Marcel, haha, I haven't heard a peep out of you regarding our
cannon-blast sample :-)
E-Man
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 8:31
am
Subject: Re: Electric Orgy and similar CDs
Marek introduced himself.
Welcome Marek,
where do you live in Poland ?
I´m living close to Hanover/Germany.
Ask listmember Dano rakinik@gte.net (off-list please),
I got my EO copy from him. He offers a good service.
Dunno if he has copies left, though.
Cheers
Jens
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 10:12
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: 'Marcel Engels'
>Really-From: 'Elias Granillo, Jr.'
>
>I'd like to know what percentage of Marcel Engels,' a.k.a. Free System
>Projekt, sounds are programmed and what percentage are stock. Impulse and
>Substance have a lot of nice, warm sounds on 'em.
hmm, I'd say it's about 75/80 % programmed sounds and the other 25% were
'preset' who were manipulated in some way (filter, thru fx-box etc).
I think its very important to have an own sound. Isn't it that we like TD
because of
the moog-seq and mellotrons and let's Kitaro for his moog lead-line and
Vangelis because of his CS80 strings and 'romantic' lead-lines.
But if you find a preset thats good and it fits in your music, by all means
use it.
>By the way, Marcel, haha, I haven't heard a peep out of you regarding our
>cannon-blast sample :-)
I have a whole week to listen to the stuff (incl. goldtri cd) I bought on
the ac-fest,
because I don't have to go to work this week (ahhh!)
So I will post a short review of what I think of the cd.
But the cannon-blast is very noticable, Elias :-)
Marcel
Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels
Email :fsp@w...
(will post this also on Goldtri-list)
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 11:12
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: Colin Knowles
> Really-From: 'Greg Heil'
>
> > >What do you think of 'Towards the Evening Star'? The sounds are great,
> > >aren't they? Preset? Never mind! Idem with 'Timesquare', 'Summer storm',
> > >'Galley Slave's Horizon', ... etc.
> >
> > Nope, the sound effects and samples aren't really that great. Certainly
> not
> > as enrapturing as an old frequency generator going through an analogue FX
> box.
>
Oh well, another person of my christmas card list! :-)
> >
> > >Fred
> >
> > Morgan
> > feldon@p...
>
> totally there in TD's current releases. The problem I see is that
> when the tracks become so complex as to have guitars, vocals,
> symphonies, and real percussion, (a VERY good example is
> 'At Darwin's Motel'), the sound becomes muddled, and hard
> to listen to.
>
True it can..but that might have something to do with your system!
> 'Oasis' is a wonderful album, but even there, you can
>
Eeerrrgghhh!!!!!!
> tell that to an extent, it's been done on a sound stage, the
> samples have that cold, concrete echo sound.
Cold, concrete sound says it all. Precisely what I don't like about some early
TD
stuff..Cold, concrete, sterile, with about as much feeling as a plate of cold
pasta! That's what
I like about the 90's stuff! It has (for the most part) more energy and life
then
the old stuff!
Don't get me wrong I *do* like some of the old stuff, Green Desert (save for the
title track!),
Exit, White Eagle etc, its just that its slow and tedious when compared with
Tryanny and GC.
> So what can this be blamed upon? Well maybe since
> it's all fed into computers, it could depend upon the hardware
> of the computers they use. If it's some crumby built in 16-bit
> soundcard--well that's a disgrace. I don't think it's that bad, but
>
I think you've misunderstood the process! If they're using samples of live
instrumentsthen the sound card or whatever A-D process they're using will play a
part. If its a sample
they've made up themselves from whatever sounds the software provides then the
sound
card doesn't come into it. It is more then possible to write/edit/record and
press
the CD
with out going any where near a sound card! I don't think they're hardware's at
fault!
> 'Tangram', 'Underwater Sunlight', 'Melrose', 'White
> Eagle', and 'The Dream Mixes.'
>
But surely DM uses just as many (if not more!) presets than the album (GC)
you've
just written off!
> Do you think it could possibly due to Edgar's ears not
> being what they used to be? I think Jerome's work is more
> aurally perfect.
Which is strange because if you check the GC sleeve notes you'll find that 'At
Darwins Motel' is an JF song! Also since JF also does the mixing for the albums
I
don't see your point.
Colin
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 10:56
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: Colin Knowles
> Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
>
> > >Tangents proves that the old tracks can be rebuilt on present
> > equipment. So
> > >it's not the equipment, it's the mindset. Are we trying to create a
> > >sequence that will confuse, bewilder and excite the listener and then
> > >slowly come to order into an awesome track?
> >
> > I find myself agreeing with you. It's what you have, it's how you use
> > it. Howard Stern's motto.
> >
> > Scott
> >
Surely then from this argument you could say that presets are OK if used
correctly?
You just don't think TD are?
Colin
n.p. Kevin Ayres--Misc. collection
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 11:24
am
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: Colin Knowles
> Really-From: feldon@p...
>
>
> I wholeheartedly disagree. TD should have put on the brakes in 1984 like
> Chris Franke and Johannes Schmoelling wanted and stopped for a year.
> Instead, Edgar went on a rampage doing more soundtracks between 84-89 than
> James Horner. The more music you crank out per year, the lower the quality.
> I could stand ONE release every two years if it meant the music would be
> fresh and exciting.
Agree wholeheartedly! Can't stand the majority of soundtracks so I wouldn't
mourn
if TD never did another one..ever!
But the thing is..if you're looking for a particualar sound for a particular
peice, and that
sound already exists, then why bother creating a new one? The time could be
spent
a lot
better on the album as a whole.
Colin
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Re: Presets
feldon@p...
Mon
3/23/1998
4 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 11:27
am
Subject: Re: Pre-sets and Redshifts 'Ether'
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Really-From: Colin Knowles
> Really-From: 'ashok prema'
>
> It does seem to me that the 'presets again' camp are usually musicians who
> know the patches as being from specific synths - but do non-musicians feel
> the same way?? I imagine they're not bothered if the DX7 'log drums' or
> whatever is repeated on various albums - if in fact they even
> notice..........the other point is - nobody complains that a pianist uses
Maybe that's it! I'm no musician (I pretend to play the flute/recorder) and I
couldn't
tell you one synth sound from another. As I said in an earlier post..I couldn't
give a
flying one if it was written using a cheapo Ģ100 Casio or someting! Its the end
effect
that's important, not the way you get there!
Colin
Sorry about the rant, but its that time of the week again! (Monday!)
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 11:02
am
Subject: Re: Lineup wanted
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Really-From: Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
>Really-From: 'Andrew J. Rozsa'
>
>
>At 02:49 PM 3/21/1998 +0100, Fred wrote:
>
>>
>>I would like to know the location and the lineup of the 'Garten of Pharaos'
>>album.
>>
>>Bristol : in the US? like said in the picture disc? or in UK? because the
>>Calston Hall (or something like that) exists in Bristol, UK (searched on the
>>net).
>>
>>CF must have left then... who replaced? Jerome was he present?
>
>Bristol, UK, 11 Nov. 1990
>
>Line-up: E. Froese, J. Froese, Haslinger, Spa. (from 'Mysterious Semblance'
>by Scott Plumer)
There was another guy at the Edinburgh concert of the same tour. He played sax
and flute. I guessed he was Hubert Waldner, since he played on LotB. I
distinctly remember both he and Linda being on stage for the last track of LotB
(damn my memory, can't remember its name).
And, of course, the German titles for the CD are simply made up. They played
'real' TD tracks, most of which were previously released. There was some
discussion some time ago about whether or not one of the tracks was unreleased,
or just obscure. Can't remember the outcome of that.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g...
Senior Software Engineer 01383 821921 x8262
GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems
Simulation and Training Division
Donibristle, Fife, Scotland
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Lineup wanted
Dave Brewer
Mon
3/23/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Fri Mar 20, 1998 3:14
pm
Subject: Odp: Electric Orgy and similar CDs
For Jens
Hello,
it was nice to get Your mesage; thanx for info. I'll try. I live in the city of Lublin, the biggest in the Eastern part of Poland. I remember still 6th December 1993 when I went to the first, ill-fated show in Warsaw (due to power failure, due to incompetence of local crew - the switches overloaded because they were of too small amperage). I had been listenong to TD for 4 years already, so I knew what to expect (musically). One correction - contrary to the info I read in the book appended to 'The Dream Root Collection', there was no blizzard in Warsaw this day. It was rather murky, but otherwise the weather was fine - although it was really cold in the arena (its name is Torwar, by the way). So much for historical accuracy.
Thanks again - Marek
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Re: Odp: Electric Orgy and similar CDs
Vic Rek
Tue
3/24/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 12:05
pm
Subject: new video?
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Really-From: 'Marcel Engels'
I read in the new KLEM-magazine that TD is
planning to release a new video very soon.
This video will contain the European Tour from
last year. Maybe we're on it :-)
Marcel
Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels
Email :fsp@w...
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Re: new video?
Marcel Engels
Mon
3/23/1998
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12238
Re: new video?
Marcel Engels
Mon
3/23/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 2:05
pm
Subject: Poster from Moondawn French LP
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Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
Hi Guys
I just found a source offering an old Klaus Schulze Moondawn French LP
Isadora ISA 9001. It should include an original poster in the first edition.
Anybody knows how the poster looks like?
Jeffrey
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 2:02
pm
Subject: Re: new video?
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Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
Really-From: 'Marcel Engels'
>
>
>I read in the new KLEM-magazine that TD is
>planning to release a new video very soon.
>This video will contain the European Tour from
>last year. Maybe we're on it :-)
>
Marcel,
Any more details? Will the video include both the Euro and the UK tour?
Jeffrey
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 2:10
pm
Subject: Re: pre-sets
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Really-From: feldon@p...
At 10:25 PM 3/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Really-From: Gabe Yedid
>
>On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, tadream mailing list wrote:
>
>> Isn't that the truth!!......get a new keyboard and the reviews say 'Great!!
>> sounds just like the Jupiter 8'.......
>
>Well, it's a buyer's market, not at all helped by the fact that so many
>artists actually WANT to stick to that old sound. It's why I keep saying
>all the innovation has gone out of e-music.
Funny, I never really felt innovation as being that important to music.
Yes, the technology becomes available, but I just don't see any point in
tossing equipment because it's 'been done before.' Why can I listen to a
dozen remixes of White Eagle and never get tired of it but the tracks on
Goblin's Club didn't survive 5 listens with me? It's not an equipment issue!!
>> >I simply don't understand what this continued >loathing of 'modern,
>> digital'
>> >sounds is founded on.
>> >Gabe
Music does not require us to upgrade equipment. Just like DVD. It gives me
nothing over my Laserdisc system with AC-3 decoder. Actually, it compresses
the video quite noticably. And disc size is such a trivial issue I don't
even know why people bring it up.
Just like my car. It's 9 years old. Would I gain anything by switching to
the 'latest greatest'? No I wouldn't. Not really.
>>
>> Me too!.....I like the clarity of the sounds - 'Le Parc' was great because
>> the whole album seems 'cleaner' than the earlier stuff - although best
when
>> interspersed with the warmth of the analogues.
>
>Well, up to a point I guess. It's not just the method of sound
>generation of the synths, it's also the production. Yes, _Le
>Parc_'s cleanliness and balance between old and new sounds was
>great.
'Clean' production is absolutely unnecessary for wonderful music. Why go to
a concert if you know it's going to be identical to the DAT? I can overlook
quite a bit of background noise if the music is great. I survived the 3
hour netcast of the TD concert from Germany, even with a sound quality
somewhere around 5kHz... because I wanted to hear the music. Truly, the
only album I have ever had a serious problem with because of sound quality
was the 1992 Relativity pressing of Tyger. As is well known, most of these
discs were pressed very weakly, resulting in very low sound level and a
terrible signal-to-noise ratio. I play CDs at volume of 3 or so. Tyger
requires a volume of 8 and the sound quality is quite awful.
However, _Optical Race_ is, IMO, the apotheosis of the overly
>clean, crisp digital sound and production.
Optical Race sounds like a MIDI file playing on my computer, not a group of
musicians who want their music and instruments to be an emotional extension
of themselves.
Contrast this with _Lily_ and
>_Melrose_ which use virtually the same synth equipment but sound much
>warmer and more natural.
These were better, yes.
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 2:26
pm
Subject: Bank charges etc
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Really-From: 'ashok prema'
Steve said:
<>
to negate bank charges a foreign cheque must be drawn on a UK based bank..
and be made out in UK pounds.......some US banks have offices here and
their cheques will give the UK address and sort code - no problem with
these cheques.......any other and my bank will charge for the foreign
cheque.
Also he wrote:
<< Can anybody give a capsule description or review of Ash's album,
here? (And if anyone has something overly critical to say about it,
private e-mail would probably be a better idea.) Also, who is Paul Lawler?
>>
At the risk of annoying those not interested yet giving the opportunity to
those who are interested in knowing about my cd I include a review of my
cd and Paul Lawler:
music in the same vein as his first album 'Of Times and Places'....but
suddenly, 2 mins into the opening track 'Unicorn' a sensational sequence
bursts onto the scene backed superbly by tabla percussion. It fades after a
few mins then returns for a brief reprise - and all this packed into just
under 5 minutes and now I'm fascinated to hear what comes next.
'Searcher of Souls' opens with foreboding chords then breaks into a soulful
motif. Excellent sequencing then re-emerges accompanied by a poised melody
which fits the rhythm perfectly. The sequences constantly ebb and flow as
complimentary themes weave a skilful thread. At the five minute mark a
guitar also emerges from the mists - again this track really does pack in
the
content and style.
'Dancing Dust' opens with syncopating effects which then lead to a plucked
guitar theme very reminescent of John Dyson. The approach is measured rather
than powerful and again the piece twists and turns until another delightful
sequence emerges at the 5 min mark.
'Triangular Succession' combines a heavy drum beat and various synth lines
to create a very unusual piece. Equally unusual is the title of track 5
'Artist Palette at Wai O Tapu'. The opening refrains are symphonic in
nature, somewhat reminescence of Tomita in places. Enter a short burst of
vocal effects closely followed by pulsing sequences and again we have a top
notch outing. The rhythmics are superbly judged and there are some choice
melodies on show too.
'Letters from Here and There' opens brightly and yes, you've guessed it,
another storming sequence then hits home - and what a corker, possibly the
best so far as it follows the melodics in classic fashion.
'Messenger of Malicious Truths' is yet another superb outing, airing
measured themes before strange effects and echoed guitar take centre stage.
Finally we have 'To Turn and Turn' and yet again Ash produces a magnificient
slab of pulsing electronics and beguiling themes - and do I detect a sniff
of Kraftwerk in there?
This is a gem of an album. Wavestar style sequencing, Dysonesque melodics,
and Ashoks own unique style. Highly recommended.
2nd Review(precise'd):
'A suprising piece of music.....really is excellent music and brings a
varied aural experience which entertains from beginning to end.....Ash is a
very competent synthesist and composes music to a high standard.
A vast array of eastern sounds, great sequences, excellent
melodies.....haunting guitar leads.....makes this cd a very welcome addition
to my collection. 'Stranger' will leave an impression on you too......'
Oh yes - our own Craig Cordrey's comment on my track 'Unicorn' for the Gold
Tri disc is rather good too:
Ashok Prema - Unicorn
This starts in the style that I expect Ash's work to be, melodic and full of
eastern promise.
The shock occurs when you think the song is finished : at around 2 minutes
themelodic piece
fades out and there is a tangible pause before the sequence starts up. This
is classic stuff,
superbly backed up with both eastern (Indian?) percussion and another, less
'twee' melody. I must admit to not rating Ash's first album particularly
highly, but if this
is a guide to a change of style, then I'm sure his new CD is a high-priority
purchase.
Personal Rating - 4
music in the same vein as his first album 'Of Times and Places'....but
suddenly, 2 mins into the opening track 'Unicorn' a sensational sequence
bursts onto the scene backed superbly by tabla percussion. It fades after a
few mins then returns for a brief reprise - and all this packed into just
under 5 minutes and now I'm fascinated to hear what comes next.
'Searcher of Souls' opens with foreboding chords then breaks into a soulful
motif. Excellent sequencing then re-emerges accompanied by a poised melody
which fits the rhythm perfectly. The sequences constantly ebb and flow as
complimentary themes weave a skilful thread. At the five minute mark a
guitar also emerges from the mists - again this trck really does pack in the
content and style.
'Dancing Dust' opens with syncopating effects which then lead to a plucked
guitar theme very reminescent of John Dyson. The approach is measured rather
than powerful and again the piece twists and turns until another delightful
sequence emerges at the 5 min mark.
'Triangular Succession' combines a heavy drum beat and various synth lines
to create a very unusual piece. Equally unusual is the title of track 5
'Artist Palette at Wai O Tapu'. The opening refrains are symphonic in
nature, somewhat reminescence of Tomita in places. Enter a short burst of
vocal effects closely followed by pulsing sequences and again we have a top
notch outing. The rhythmics are superbly judged and there are some choice
melodies on show too.
'Letters from Here and There' opens brightly and yes, you've guessed it,
another storming sequence then hits home - and what a corker, possibly the
best so far as it follows the melodics in classic fashion.
'Messenger of Malicious Truths' is yet another superb outing, airing
measured themes before strange effects and echoed guitar take centre stage.
Finally we have 'To Turn and Turn' and yet again Ash produces a magnificient
slab of pulsing electronics and beguiling themes - and do I detect a sniff
of Kraftwerk in there?
This is a gem of an album. Wavestar style sequencing, Dysonesque melodics,
and Ashoks own unique style. Highly recommended.
2nd Review(precise'd):
'A suprising piece of music.....really is excellent music and brings a
varied aural experience which entertains from beginning to end.....Ash is a
very competent synthesist and composes music to a high standard.
A vast array of eastern sounds, great sequences, excellent
melodies.....haunting guitar leads.....makes this cd a very welcome addition
to my collection. 'Stranger' will leave an impression on you too......'
Oh yes - our own Craig Cordrey's comment on my track 'Unicorn' for the Gold
Tri disc is rather good too:
Ashok Prema - Unicorn
This starts in the style that I expect Ash's work to be, melodic and full of
eastern promise.
The shock occurs when you think the song is finished : at around 2 minutes
themelodic piece
fades out and there is a tangible pause before the sequence starts up. This
is classic stuff,
superbly backed up with both eastern (Indian?) percussion and another, less
'twee' melody. I must admit to not rating Ash's first album particularly
highly, but if this
is a guide to a change of style, then I'm sure his new CD is a high-priority
purchase.
Personal Rating - 4
musical capability then
most established musicians - he has real pedigree having played with
orchestras before and written material for the BBC! Best is to quote Craig
Cordrey again:
Paul Lawler - Ice Station
A rather light-weight intro to this track had me fooled the first couple of
times I listened to it. However, in a similar way to the F&K track, I find
this piece engaging and a real grower. Obviously, it is not as 'powerful' as
Tapedriver, but I view this as a more 'beautiful' piece. I find the melody
reminds me of some of Paul Nagle's softer moments on Earthshaper.
As a newcomer to Paul Lawler's work, I may be on the look-out for more info
and sounds
from this man because this release has me intrigued.
Personal Rating : 4
I hope to have a web page soon for Champagne Lake -
Ash
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 2:26
pm
Subject:
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Really-From: feldon@p...
>For Jens
>Hello,
>it was nice to get Your mesage; thanx for info. I'll try. I live in the city
>of Lublin, the biggest in the Eastern part of Poland. I remember still 6th
>December 1993 when I went to the first, ill-fated show in Warsaw
1983?
>(due to power failure, due to incompetence of local crew - the switches
>overloaded because they were of too small amperage). I had been listenong to
>TD for 4 years already, so I knew what to expect (musically). One correction
>- contrary to the info I read in the book appended to 'The Dream Root
>Collection', there was no blizzard in Warsaw this day. It was rather murky,
>but otherwise the weather was fine - although it was really cold in the arena
>(its name is Torwar, by the way). So much for historical accuracy.
>Thanks again - Marek
I think the blizzard comment is intended as a joke.
Replies
Name/Email
Yahoo! ID
Date
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Doug Daughtry
Tue
3/31/1998
3 KB
12749
Marek Mastalerz
Wed
4/8/1998
3 KB
12820
jinsuk Kim
Fri
4/10/1998
2 KB
13042
Marek Mastalerz
Thu
4/16/1998
4 KB
13047
Re:
TangerineC
Thu
4/16/1998
2 KB
13068
Re:
Andrew J. Rozsa
Fri
4/17/1998
3 KB
13059
Marek Mastalerz
Thu
4/16/1998
4 KB
13070
Re:
SRiser3600
Fri
4/17/1998
2 KB
13074
Re:
Andrew J. Rozsa
Fri
4/17/1998
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 2:23
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: feldon@p...
At 11:24 AM 3/23/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Really-From: Colin Knowles
>
>> Really-From: feldon@p...
>>
>>
>> I wholeheartedly disagree. TD should have put on the brakes in 1984 like
>> Chris Franke and Johannes Schmoelling wanted and stopped for a year.
>> Instead, Edgar went on a rampage doing more soundtracks between 84-89 than
>> James Horner. The more music you crank out per year, the lower the quality.
>> I could stand ONE release every two years if it meant the music would be
>> fresh and exciting.
>
>Agree wholeheartedly! Can't stand the majority of soundtracks so I
wouldn't mourn
>if TD never did another one..ever!
Son, you are in a VERY small minority of Tangerine Dream fans. 90% of us
LOVE the soundtracks they have done and we recognize the compositional
qualities of their 1973-1986 music that are lacking in their 1987-1995
stuff. Say what you want, but you are pretty much alone in your thinking.
>But the thing is..if you're looking for a particualar sound for a particular
>peice, and that
>sound already exists, then why bother creating a new one? The time could
be spent
>a lot
>better on the album as a whole.
Well, I found some tin cans on the side of the road, so let me use those
for sound, instead of hunting around and looking for a guitar or keyboard.
Same sound, right?
Morgan
feldon@p...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 2:48
pm
Subject: Tenchi Muyo on TV
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Really-From: 'Plumer, Scott'
Tenchi Muyo in Love (ST by CF) was on the Sci-Fi channel Saturday
morning. Unfortunately, I didn't catch it until 10 minutes in, or I
would have taped it.
Scott
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 3:01
pm
Subject: Re: new video?
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Really-From: 'Marcel Engels'
>Really-From: 'Jeffrey Au-Yeung'
>
>>I read in the new KLEM-magazine that TD is
>>planning to release a new video very soon.
>>This video will contain the European Tour from
>>last year. Maybe we're on it :-)
>
>Any more details? Will the video include both the Euro and the UK tour?
No, sadly, thats all the info.
Marcel
Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels
Email :fsp@w...
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 4:14
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really-From: Colin Knowles
> Really-From: feldon@p...
>
> Well, I found some tin cans on the side of the road, so let me use those
> for sound, instead of hunting around and looking for a guitar or keyboard.
> Same sound, right?
>
> Morgan
> feldon@p...
If what you want is a tin can sound sure! Wouldn't be much point in trying to
distort a
guitar to sound like a tin can now would there? :-)
Colin
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 5:23
pm
Subject: Re: Lineup wanted
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Really-From: Dave Brewer
> Quoted From: Craig Cordrey 01383 821921
>
> There was another guy at the Edinburgh concert of the same tour. He played sax
> and flute. I guessed he was Hubert Waldner, since he played on LotB. I
> distinctly remember both he and Linda being on stage for the last track of
LotB
> (damn my memory, can't remember its name).
The other woodwind player was Paul Greibach (I probably misspelled his last
name!). Waldner was just a studio musician.
Dave B.
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 10:23
pm
Subject: Re: Presets
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Really-From: DAVENTURA
Morgan writes:
Son, you are in a VERY small minority of Tangerine Dream fans. 90% of us
LOVE the soundtracks they have done and we recognize the compositional
qualities of their 1973-1986 music that are lacking in their 1987-1995
stuff. Say what you want, but you are pretty much alone in your thinking.
Personally I hate all their music, just wish I could stop listening to
it....David
Replies
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12257
Re: Presets
Gabe Yedid
Tue
3/24/1998
3 KB
12272
Re: Presets
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Wed
3/25/1998
3 KB
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 12:51
pm
Subject: D:List, Addendum Week 6 - 22nd March 1998
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Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
This week we would like to hear comments on TimeSquare
(Dream Mixes II) - Not to be confused with the 2cd edition
of The Dream mixes.
Please make your subject D:TimeSquare when replying.
Lawry
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Sun Mar 22, 1998 1:45
pm
Subject: Alpha Centauri
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Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
Just got back from The Netherlands.... what a fantastic show.
It was also nice, to put some faces to the names...
(Hi Marcel, Jens, and the others).
BTW Marcel... check out my np below... comments to follow!
A very rushed and expensive weekend for me, but I wouldn't
have missed it for the world. I got my hands on Redshift II:
Ether, (again, comments to follow), the GoldTri: Volume One
which looks great value for money, but I've yet to hear it.
(EM overload!). Also, I bought both of Marcel's 'Free System
Projekt' CD's, the Movements CD from Alpha Centauri
members, and also managed to get the Thief SBM for Ģ3.
Which is nice.
Also on sale was Edgar Froese's Macula Transfer on the
Mannekin label, but my funds had just about dried up so I
thought I'd wait until it hits the shops over here.
The acts appeared in the following order:-
Rainbow Serpent
Paul Nagle
Alquimia
Mark Jenkins
Syndromeda
Schonwalder/Keller
ARC: Boddy/Shreeve
Next years festival is slated for 13th March, so put that date in
your diaries and start saving now. Well worth the effort to see
so many of today's breed of EM artists under one roof.
To sum the whole day up in just one word... fantastic.
Lawry Simm
np: Free System Projekt - Impulse
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Jens Peschke
Tue
3/24/1998
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Re: Alpha Centauri
K.E
Tue
3/24/1998
3 KB
12256
Re: Alpha Centauri
Lawry Simm
Tue
3/24/1998
4 KB
29440
Alpha Centauri
tom george
Mon
10/8/2001
5 KB
29441
Re: Alpha Centauri
rubyconist@y...
Mon
10/8/2001
3 KB
29444
Re: Alpha Centauri
John Vertical
Mon
10/8/2001
3 KB
29500
Re: Alpha Centauri
rubyconist@y...
Thu
10/11/2001
2 KB
29447
Re: Alpha Centauri
ohmss761@c...
Tue
10/9/2001
2 KB
29503
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From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 24, 1998 1:44
am
Subject: Re: Odp: Electric Orgy and similar CDs
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Really-From: Vic Rek
Hey Jens,
So who is this Marek guy from Poland and how can he be reached?
>it was nice to get Your mesage; thanx for info. I'll try. I live in the
city of Lublin, the biggest in the Eastern part of Poland. I remember still
6th December 1993 when I went to the first, ill-fated show in Warsaw [...]
>Thanks again - Marek
The show wasn't too ill fated, we've 'all' got it on CD :-)
Vic
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: LoaRT 4-CD-R Set
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
>Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:49:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: LOART CDR
>From: tadream mailing list
>Really-From: KRAUSENECKS
>
> Whatever has happened to the collective cdr of all the different
>versions of LOART? [. . .]
Disc One (of four!!!) was just completed. That's all I have to
report for now . . . except that there'll be stuff from live shows and
cover versions and even snippets from the movie itself . . . a maybe
even a Pink Floyd tune (the first/title track on the OBSCURED BY CLOUDS
soundtrack sounds like 'Guido the Killer Pimp')?!?!
-- Steven Feldman
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Centerfold Model, or Calendar Girl?
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Really-From: Steven Feldman
Hi,
I caught a few minutes of a movie about five or six years ago that
sounded like it had a TD soundtrack. I recall that it had a title like
THE PINUP GIRL AND THE COP, or somesuch, and think that it starred
Barbara Eden.
I did some searching at the Internet Movies Database Search website
and wound up with two movies:
o STONESTREET: WHO KILLED THE CENTERFOLD MODEL? (1977)--w/ Barbara Eden
o CALENDAR GIRL, COP KILLER? THE BAMBI BEMBENEK STORY (1992)
Below is the entry for each of these made-for-TV movies. If anyone
here comes across either of these, give a listen and see if there is or
is not something akin to TD on the soundtrack(s).
-- Steven Feldman
+ + + + + + +
Stonestreet: Who Killed the Centerfold Model? (1977) (TV)
USA 1977 Color (Technicolor)
Produced by: Universal City Studios Productions, Inc.
Certification: USA:PG
Language: English
Genre/keyword: Mystery / Thriller
Runtime: USA:73
Distributed by: Universal Pictures [aka MCA/Universal Pictures] [us]
Directed by
Russ Mayberry
Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification
Barbara Eden .... Elizabeth Stonestreet
Joseph Mascolo .... Max Pierce
Joan Hackett
Richard Basehart .... Elliott Osborn
Louise Latham .... Mrs. Schroeder
Elaine Giftos
James Ingersoll
Val Avery
Sally Kirkland
Gino Conforti .... Davis
Ryan MacDonald .... Watch Commander
LaWanda Page .... Erna
Len Wayland .... Detective #1
Ann Dusenberry .... Amory Osborn
Dave Shelley .... Brady
Robert Burton .... Dale Anderson
Paula Victor .... Miss Gibbons
Lew Palter .... Munroe
Written by
Leslie Stevens [producer of the 60's show THE OUTER LIMITS --S.F.]
Cinematography by
Terry K. Meade
Music by
Patrick Williams (I)
Costume Design by
George Whittaker (as George R. Whittaker)
Film Editing by
Robert F. Shugrue
Produced by
Leslie Stevens [producer of the 60's show THE OUTER LIMITS --S.F.]
Other crew
John E. Chilberg II .... art director
Peg Cummings .... set decorator
Chuck Lowry .... assistant director
David J. O'Connell .... production executive
Don Parker .... sound
Joe Reich .... casting (as Joseph Z. Reich)
Robert G. Stone .... unit manager
Al Teeter .... music editor
Don Weinman .... sound effects editor
Crew believed to be complete.
Copyright Đ 1990-1998 The Internet Movie Database Ltd
+ + + + + + +
Calendar Girl, Cop, Killer? The Bambi Bembenek Story (1992) (TV)
USA 1992 Color (CFI)
[release dates ]
Language: English
Runtime: Netherlands:100
Also Known As:
Heart of the Lie, The (1992) (TV)
Directed by
Jerry London
Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification
Timothy Busfield .... Fred Schultz
Lindsay Frost .... Laurencia 'Bambi' Bembenek
John Karlen .... John Garner
Linda Blair .... Jane Mader
James Sloyan
Kathleen Garrett .... Paula Fulton
John Pleshette
Peter Jurasik
Tobin Bell
James Handy
Tom Mason (I) .... Frank Rutter
Ed Lauter .... Lieutenant Driscoll
Don S. Davis .... McCann
Susanna Thompson .... Christine
Stephen Liska .... Razboni
Steve Sandor .... Sam Corbett
Matt Roe .... Greg Esperson
Grant Gelt .... Sean
Mort Sertner .... Judge
Anthony Addabbo .... Nick
Adam Hendershott .... Shannon
Daniel Trent .... Border Guard
Jeanette O'Connor .... Manager
Roger Rook .... Prison Guard
Jay Irwin .... Wallen
Ken Kerman .... Sergeant
Steve Chase .... Guy
Kevin Brief .... MC
Dink O'Neal .... Photo Journalist
John Dunbar .... Expert
Written by
Larry Barber
Cinematography by
Billy Dickson
Music by
Dana Kaproff
Production Design by
Mick Strawn
Costume Design by
Shari Feldman
Film Editing by
Michael Brown (I)
Produced by
Robert Engelman (co-producer)
Jerry London
Randy Sutter (co-producer)
Copyright Đ 1990-1998 The Internet Movie Database Ltd
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Thu Jan 1, 1970 4:59
am
Subject: Mucilage Lars Jones <105411.3107@c...>, Victor Rek , Hermes Guzman , 'Francisco Salgado C.' , Tangerine Dream mailing list
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Really-From: 'Mr. Ed--Molasar's Favorite Drink'
Guys,
Who was it who told me that the best thing for re-sticking CD-R
labels back onto the surface of a CD-R is mucilage?
I remember being horrified upon hearing this since mucilage is
horribly unmanageable stuff that cracks, flakes, and then powders if
and when it dries and scrapes off. Is this for real? And if not, what
*is* good to use to stick the labels back on when they rise up and
start interfering with the rotation of the CD-R within the disc player?
-- Steven Feldman
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 24, 1998 7:00
am
Subject: Re: Alpha Centauri
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Really-From: 'Jens Peschke'
>Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
>
>Just got back from The Netherlands.... what a fantastic show.
Quite.
>It was also nice, to put some faces to the names...
>(Hi Marcel, Jens, and the others).
Hi Lawry :-)
Itīs a pity that we were talking only briefly. Were you at the last KLEMdag too
?
I spend lots of time talking to all the listmembers (tadream, space-music,
goldtri)
and their friends. I managed to miss noone (?) but as about more than a dozent
mailing list members were present you can imagine that the time was just too
short.
Lawry, where did you stay ? We were at the Tulipp Inn in Naarden.
Was lot of fun to have such an international EM artist/fangroup at one place.
It was really amazing to meet them all !
Paul Nagle, his synth partner John Hickey, the AirSculture guys,
Ian Boddy, Mark Shreeve, his brother and another Redshift member
were amongst them.
Mark Fonda came over from Aruba (Mark, are you still flying, matey ? :-)),
cars full of Brits were arriving over the day as well.
Was so amazing to meet you all ! :-)
Ash, itīs a pity that you missed the party !
I *really* enjoyed the whole weekend (from Friday morning 5:00
ītil Sunday 18:30 when I finally arrived back in Germany).
Iīll write a full length report soon. Hopefully you donīt mind a long report
over here on the tadream list.
Elana was also present as well as the incredible Trout of Doom (TM)
fishy.
Elana talked to Ian Boddy and he was curious about her huge fishy.
I donīt know the whole story ...
For some reason it ended up with Ian Boddy hitting Elana with the plastic fishy
quite a lot. A strange mix out of laughing, crying was to be heard.
Fortunately Iīve been able to watch it once more on video (PAL) the next day.
Back to the music:
A few short concert reviews
---------------------------------------
>Rainbow Serpent
Unprofessional performance. Was the 1st time I heard their music.
Also it had has its moments they have no clue about developing and
composing/arranging.
All the endings were just awful.
Imagine a multi layered drums, sequences mix that stops suddenly
to end uip in a faded out bass drone !
Why did they do that ? :-((
The better parts included JMJ styled poppy melodies and
some of the sequences.
Itīs a pity that their just throw the full sequence in with NO (or a few)
developement.
>Paul Nagle and his mate John Hickey.
Wow ! Never heard any of Paulīs regular CDīs, honestly.
The performance was quite amazing, Iīve already ordered 'Live Elements'
as a starter, btw.
Paul was very impressive, *very*.
He really *worked* on stage. I liked the harp bit most ! :-)
It starts with slower stuff and the more up-beat stonking end
was a winner, at least to me...
Keep on the excellent work, that Paul chap !
The next time Iīll like to hear a longer concert, though ! ;-)
>Alquimia
Strange music, she seems to mime everything.
She looks pretty well but I leaved after a few minutes.
New Age, dark Ambient with vocals is not my cup of coffee.
> ARC
That was a real stunner !
Iīm still flying.
I felt always sad to miss the great td shows in the 70s (born in 1966),
Iīm not sad anymore about that !
Mark Shreeve did a part with a live sequence on his Modular Moog that
was worth the money I spent for the whole weekend. :-D
Lawry, youīll love Marcel Engels track on the GT sampler,
itīs the best FSP Iīve heard so far !
More later
Jens
np: Redshift: Ether, way better than the 1st CD!
PS:Redshift II, ARC and Stephen Parsick: Traces from the past
are must haves for tadream list members that likes the Baumann aera !!
Anyone interested to read reviews of those stunners ?
Marcel, it isnīt you. The music gets better !!!!!!!!!
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Tue Mar 24, 1998 3:46
pm
Subject: Re: Alpha Centauri
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Really-From: 'K.E'
Hi all you lucky people
who seemed to have a nice time at the Alpha Cenrauri festival.
I was wondering;
How many people attended the Alpha Centauri this year?
How was it compared to KLEM?
Kindly, Kent
From:
tadream@c... (tadream mailing list)
Date: Mon Mar 23, 1998 11:07
pm
Subject: The Keep - (oh yes... yet again!)
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Really-From: 'Lawry Simm'
Why does everyone on this list feel inclined to persecute
Steve Feldman because of his quest?
Fact: The album was not only pressed, but released to record
stores.
Fact: Due to hassle betweed TD, record companies etc, the
record was recalled and probably destroyed.
Is it not within the realms of possibility therefore, that some
still exist? Why take the piss instead of helping out?
Put this guy out of his misery!
Right, I'm off to find some pixies. :-)