From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Fri Mar 17, 2000 5:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tadream list shown as 'Unmoderated' on the onelist.com Man, I didn't realize this was the moderated list. I meant to join the unmoderated list. I would never have dreamed of even mentioning bootlegs on this list if I knew that. *sigh* --------------------- From www.onelist.com in reference to the tadream list: Options: • Listed in directory • Open membership • Unmoderated • All members may post • Primary language: English • Public archives We endeavor to function as a sort of 'online fan club', where you are invited to share your memories, preferences and knowledge as a Tangerine Dream aficianado, join in on the weekly album discussions, identify that old unmarked bootleg tape you've had since college.... ----------------------- From www.onelist.com in reference to the tangerine dream list: Any personal attacks or *hate* mail will not be allowed. Please use this list as a forum for friendly chatting about the GREATEST band in the world!!! -------------------- When i saw this, I assumed that the tangerine dream list was more restrictive. Not that I would personally attack anyone. -Morgan (sorry to make so much traffic today out of my ignorance) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' Date: Fri Mar 17, 2000 7:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD or not TD That is the question. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Sean Montgomery' To: 'TD EMAIL' Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] TD or not TD That is the question. > From: Sean Montgomery > > > > > From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' > > > > I just came across the following while surfing around , can anyone shed any > > light on the matter ? > > Tangerine Dream - Kaliedoscope This is > an album called Tangerine Dream by a group called Kaleidoscope. It was > originally released in 1967, and was recently reissued. > SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator Phew !!! Thanks Sean you just saved me a great deal of embarrassment , thought I had found a rare item ( he he he ) I very much appreciate the help , Carl ' Orch ' From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' Date: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:20 pm Subject: Invisible Shadows. Hi folks ! Just wanted to say thanks to who ever sugested sending an e-mail to Invisible Shadows in Germany to obtain there free promo CD . It arrived today safe and sound , listening to it now and am so far impressed . Thanks Again Carl ' Orch ' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21278 Re: Invisible Shadows. Jared White Mon 3/20/2000 4 KB 21279 Re: Invisible Shadows -- PS Jared White Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:54 pm Subject: Solar Eclipse CD!!/MS Encarta TD-entry Hi! Today's infos: I added the Tangerine Dream entry form the german Encarta CD-ROM by Microsoft onto my TD internet site. Start it and you'll see. Just a question: How's about the US- or the English version (or italian, shwedish, portugese........)? Is the TD entry in all this CDROMS or only in the german version? And: I got a message because of the Solar Eclipse CD with the TD music on it. As I thought, the guys from INET are _not_ sending it to foreign contries outside europe. The reason: The amount of postage will be higher than the cost of the CD (ITS NOT A CD-R!!!). I ordered some more disks today but I'm not shure I get 'em all. If I get some more infos, I'll redirect it to you all. This is your last change to put your fingers on it. It's an original. I don't do this for profit! I trade or I sell it to you for the price of the CD and the postage. The cost of the CD is approx. 15 DM/each including postage inside germany. If you want to order it yourself, o.k.! I added a link on my td-page to the - german language - order page. INET is selling inside europe only. If you can't get one, ask me. And I added a german and english example of the video-menue. Bye... Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- Updated TD site: www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: 'John Marchington' Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 12:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD without EF I'm sure your sentiments are shared by a lot of others, Olle, but I'd hang in there, all the same. As far as I am concerned, the Virgin years still hold the most interest for me, but that' s not to suggest that everything outside that period is not worth listening to. Everybody will have their own favourite albums and styles. For me, 'TimeSquare' off the 'Dream Mixes 2' album is head and shoulders above anything else they've written in recent times, but I obviously don't expect everyone to agree with that. I still love 'Underwater Sunlight' and a number of the soundtrack albums such as 'Wavelength', 'Flashpoint', 'L'Affaire Wallraff' and 'The Park Is Mine', to name but four. I also find that compositions I had little time for when first encountered begin to appeal after repeated hearings. Sometimes one has to make an effort to get 'inside' some music, TD being no exception. When it comes to discussing TD without Edgar, I shall remain silent for who can possibly know? It's possible that some other brilliant musician might take over the reins -- and everybody will then be wondering what all the fuss was about! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 02:21 Subject: [tadream] TD without EF > From: olle.rundgren@s... > > An interesting thread indeed. Anyone remember. Sorry for being late but I > feel the urge to post some thoughts about this. > > I have often wondered why I continue buying TD albums. I sure know why I > started back in the mid 70s. Simply because I loved the music. Rubycon was > the first, if I am not mistaken, and buying Phaedra, Ricochet and the lot > just made me aware that this was it. It became almost a religious thing, > buying and listening to these masterpieces, never a disappointment. > Working my way backwards to Electronic meditation and the period up to Atem > it would be an exaggeration to say that my feelings were the same. However > it was history and if nothing else, at least interesting to have. > During the 80s I gradually lost that religious feeling mentioned above. I > started to hope for, as opposed to expect, a positive listening experience > when buying the new albums. It wasn't that I didn't like the music, rather > that they were heading in a direction towards the mainstream. Suddenly there > were melodies, and no matter how good a melody, once you are able to hum it > to yourself you are bound to get tired of it sooner or later (like that old > favourite shirt hanging back there in the closet. You liked it so much and > would never throw it away even though you never use it nowadays). However, > knowing that the line-up actually did produce Tangram was the reason for > wanting to have the next album. > Then off went Schmoelling and later Francke and there was Haslinger and > towards the latter part of the 80s Tangerine Dream had completely lost its > power over my record consuming behavior. It is impossible to say exactly > when I lost interest in the group but it coincided with the end of the vinyl > era for me. Destination Berlin was probably the last TD vinyl I bought and > listening to that one it certainly isn't difficult to understand why I lost > interest. > It was only some years into the 90s that I got myself a cd equipment and I > would say that it took until somewhere around the mid 90s before I started > to listen to TD again. The quality of their output from that decade is very > mixed. However to me the absloute all time low period was the end of the > 80s. My overall opinion is that they are releasing far too much material for > their own good. Still I see positive signs. Oasis and Goblins Club certainly > have their promising parts, What a Blast is not at all bad and so on. > > The key question though is: Should I have been a TD fan if I started out > today listening to their 90's output. Probably not, at least not to the > extent that I'd buy all the albums. However I have the history, that is, I > know what they are capable of. If and when Froese decides to quit it will be > a different thing though as he is the glue that has been keeping it all > together during the years. If Jerome wants to continue in the same vein he > should definately do it but try to find another name for the group. It could > well be connected to TD but shouldn't be it. There are too many ideas about > what is right or wrong among the fans of Tangerine Dream to make it healthy > for any successor to Edgar, not least his own son. > Whether I will continue to be interested or not depends on the quality but > for me TD ends with the last remaining founder. > > Oops, there went my lunch-break. Sorry for a long one here. Finally a hint > to you who are looking for other interesting electronic music; Try > Waveshape, not at all bad if you like dreamy, floating stuff. > > Bye for now > Olle > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/937/3/_/24785/_/953299319/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: 'Jens Peschke' Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 1:23 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible Shadows. > From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' > > Hi folks ! > Just wanted to say thanks to who ever sugested sending an e-mail to > Invisible Shadows in Germany to obtain there free promo CD . > It arrived today safe and sound , listening to it now and am so far > impressed . > Thanks Again Carl ' Orch ' You're welcome, Carl. Worth every penny, eh ? ;-))) Best Regards Jens Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21280 Re: Invisible Shadows. Bert.Hulshoff@N... Mon 3/20/2000 3 KB 21288 Re: Invisible Shadows. Kevin Earley Mon 3/20/2000 3 KB 21304 Re: Invisible Shadows. Eric Rochon Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB From: Steven Feldman Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 5:15 am Subject: Two Lists + One Name = Trouble >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:30:25 CST >Subject: Re: [tadream] tadream list shown as > 'Unmoderated' on the onelist.com >From: Tangerine Dream mailing list >Really-From: 'Feldon Feldon' > >Man, I didn't realize this was the moderated list. I meant to join the >unmoderated list. I would never have dreamed of even mentioning >bootlegs on this list if I knew that. *sigh* >--------------------- >From www.onelist.com in reference to the tadream list: >Options: >• Listed in directory >• Open membership >• Unmoderated >• All members may post >• Primary language: English >• Public archives >We endeavor to function as a sort of 'online fan club', where you are >invited to share your memories, preferences and knowledge as a Tangerine >Dream aficianado, join in on the weekly album discussions, identify that >old unmarked bootleg tape you've had since college.... >----------------------- >From www.onelist.com in reference to the tangerine dream list: >Any personal attacks or *hate* mail will not be allowed. Please use this >list as a forum for friendly chatting about the GREATEST band in the >world!!! >-------------------- '', ''? Fuck if *I* can remember which is which at any given time: the postings to each seem about the same. It gives me a real pain in the ass that we have become so factional that we have to have three goddam lists for one band, just because some of us can't share our toys and play nice. >When i saw this, I assumed that the tangerine dream list was more >restrictive. Not that I would personally attack anyone. Unlike me. ;) But then, it's partly revenge for my being shouted down about THE KEEP so many times. >-Morgan >(sorry to make so much traffic today out of my ignorance) It's not ignorance, it's having some cojones and trying -- against the odds on these lists these days -- to think for yourself without knuckling under to the prevailing 'wisdom.' For example, my fave TD albums are EPSILON IN MALAYSIAN PALE and MARS POLARIS. Note that one is a *solo album* rather than an actual TD album, while the other is -- horrors! -- one of those beat-heavy albums by that 'bad drummer.' Too fucking bad. They're both great. So I'm not in a Schmoelling phase anymore. Also too fucking bad. Go ahead, make some comment about my having a period or PMS . . . see if I care. I *like* ranting about my favorite band. ;) :) -- Steven Feldman - - - - - - - Quip: 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.' --Albert Einstein Another: 'Science is to investigate the unexplained, not to 'explain' the uninvestigated.' --Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist and UFO researcher From: Chris Richards Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:59 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 424 <> Well, any artist who has a problem with his/her music being bootlegged has the option of releasing said music legitimately, undoctored, of course. It doesn't help if the only 'archival' releases that come out (or indeed, many of the live albums that TD has released) are heavily 'doctored up' after the fact. The thing that has to be recognised is that bootlegs exist for a reason, and that's there being a demand for unreleased recordings. Tangerine Dream put on some rather legendary shows during the 70's and early to mid 80's, and therefore, recordings of those shows are highly sought after. I know at least one person who never understood why the band never released the Reims Cathedral concert legitimately. Since Edgar has proven to be less than ethusiastic about releasing such items (and like I said, people want to hear the music sans remixing, overdubbing, especially the sort that takes place 2-3 decades later), bootleggers are gonna step in and help fill a void in the marketplace. That's just how it works. You have to accept that it's part of the biz, as it were. Now, most of my collection of 'non-official' releases were tapes or CD-R's or videos I acquired by trading with other collectors. On the other hand, I have on occasion actually put down some of my money for an actual bootleg, though I've never done so with a Tangerine Dream item. I happen to feel some of the live tapes I have of TD are in fact better than the stuff that was released (for instance, I prefer the tapes I have of the 77 North American tour over Encore). When one of my favorite bands releases old recordings (such as what King Crimson or The Grateful Dead have done), I've been more than happy to take any of those recordings that I've been offering for trading purposes out of circulation, so as to 'support the artist', as it were, and to encourage others to buy the recordings from the legitimate sources. If no such legitimate release exists, well, then, there's only one option for the fans, isn't there? If Edgar really gets so upset about bootlegs, than he should do what the Grateful Dead have done, and start issuing some of the old shows, and I mean without RECENT overdubs. I wouldn't mind paying good money to get the Reims Cathedral or Cleveland 77 shows, in their entirety, unedited, on CD, even though I already have copies of them. And even though my copy of the Montreal 77 show is dubbed from a pristine radio broadcast, it would be nice to be able to get it on CD and to be able to pay Edgar for the efforts of making it available thusly. And best of all, when someone says 'Which TD album should I start with?', I can point to the Reims or Montreal releases and without reservation, say 'Get those two'. ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: 'kayleigh' Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 2:10 pm Subject: Fan Taping - flame war? Hey there all. I'd like to throw a few nice comments into this little conversation about fan taping/trading/bad traders. FIRST, I'd like to commend Joe with the way he wrote regarding the entire note/bad trader situation. Myself, I have been involved in a similar situation about two years ago on another mailing list. The fans there are very obsessed with this band, and speak as if the members are God-like creatures, where I've never ever looked at musicians that way. They are simply just people maybe a bit more talented than you or I, but they are people nonetheless, nothing better about them. Long story short, I have seen flame wars hundreds of times regarding fan taping/trading. I have never taped shows myself (TRIED one time actually, and you cannot talk, speak, burp, notta or it shows up on the tapes, and it sounds like shit), BUT on that story, that was my one experience. I have openly traded for FOUR YEARS, and have never ever had a bad trade. Sure, some things have shown up that weren't the quality I was promised, but so it goes. Things happen, no hard feelings, and I don't hold a grudge. To trade/tape, honestly I don't think it will ever stop. MOST artists/musicians/bands DO NOT like this sort of thing, BUT my honest opinion, look at the Dead (i've been a HUGE trade of their material for years, and collect it all), Dave Matthews, Pearl Jam, Metallica and MORE. I think the more the artists ALLOW the taping/trading this cuts down drastically on bootlegging and sales. Springsteen prosecutes ANYONE remotely involved in trading OR taping bootlegs, and because of that, his bootlegs SELL for a lot of money, and they are always online various sites selling, wheras you don't see other bands who allow taping/trading being sold as much. What this comes down to, honestly is just my OPINION. There are people that will never agree with taping OR trading. AND there are people like myself that would trade for live material like TD in a heartbeat, BUT I will ALWAYS support a band and purchase real items outright (studio releases, etc), AND in the same case, there are others who will never agree with trading/taping. BUT because someone does'nt like it, does that mean I will stop? Nope, it doesn't. Because someone doesn't WANT others to tape/trade, does that mean everyone who DOES will immediately stop? Unfortunately it does not. That's just the way it goes. I've seen/heard about bootlegging for YEARS AND YEARS, and they've tried to stop it. It hasn't stopped yet, and IMHO I Don't see that happening. At the same time, I have had people send me CDR copies of studio releases in the past 'listen to this'. IF it is a band I WOULD NOT BUY ordinarily, if I like it, I always ALWAYS buy the real thing. If I do not, I simply listen to it, and about 99% of the time, send it on to someone else. Why? Because this is money that band would NOT have gotten from me anyhow, whether I DID NOT originally buy the cd or even after listening to the CDR, I still wouldn't have bought it. Just thought I'd speak a few minutes. Thanks for listening. I've heard/been involved in flame wars for years about trading/taping. With live concerts I do what I do with trading as I LIKE IT. I don't agree with selling/for profit (THAT is wrong), but because say I trade live Tangerine Dream material, does that mean 'oh, I have 40 live shows, so I don't need to pay money to see a live concert' NO WAY. I would pay almost ANY reasonable sum (To me that is a LOT considering I have never seen these guys perform), and would never pass that up for a live bootleg. NO WAY. So if anyone does that, it doesn't come to where they are trying to rip the band off, etc by having live recordings. IF anyone would skip a live performance of a band like Tangerine Dream cuz of a few bootlegs, they need to have their head checked as SOMETHING isn't working upstairs. dan Kayleigh's Playhouse! http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! ICQ#1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 - Firetalk# 581211 Yahoo Pager: kayleigh_tootiehoot Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21260 Re: Fan Taping - flame war Rainer Rutka Sat 3/18/2000 2 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 3:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Fan Taping - flame war On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, kayleigh wrote: > From: 'kayleigh' > Hey there all. I'd like to throw a few nice comments into this little > conversation about fan taping/trading/bad traders. FIRST, I'd like to > ... rest deleted... All I can say to this: I AGREE! To everything kayleigh's wrote in his last mail to the list. Rainer - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TD-fan page: www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: 'koulos_' Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 2:35 pm Subject: d:ost legend legend 1 is your love strong enough [non TD related] 2 opening 3 cottage 4 unicorn theme 5 goblins 6 fairies 7 loved by the sun 8 blue room 9 the dance 10 darkness 11 the kitcen/unicorn theme reprise a album that makes me fell like into a magic world [although i haven't seen the moovie ] favorites tracks are cottage: with the opening notes to be one of the best parts of TD's song ever fairies :i always fell like thousand of fairies fly into my room anytime i hear this song [also having a nice tune in the last 1.15 min of the track] the kitchen/U.T.Reprise a nice song that someone could put a drummachine in the back and make even goa/trance out of it [but it gives me the feeling that we are waiting for something to enter the place .........and then the good enters the place .....[while i am always waiting to ender the drummmachine i was talking before.....:)] anyway this is a nice OST and i always consider playing yours koulos from athens n.p. a colllection of carlo santana old claasics [jin-go-lo-ba persuasion el corazon manda .........up lifting music as i call it] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 5:08 pm Subject: Discussion Week 28 - Sunday 18th March 2000 This week brings me to another of my favourite albums, Underwater Sunlight. Please mark your email with a subject of 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' for the benefit of the list search engine. Samples can be found at http://www.tangerinedream.de/samples/underwater1.ram http://www.tangerinedream.de/samples/underwater2.ram There is also a midi file that I created of Song Of The Whale Part 1 knocking around the internet at various places. It should still be at www.thisolehouse.freeserve.co.uk/midi Regards, Lawry lawrysimm@u... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: Vic Rek Date: Sat Mar 18, 2000 11:12 pm Subject: Okefenokee TD Trip Hi TD fans! So far we have about 11 people that will most likely attend the TD Okefenokee Swap gig. I also have about 5 that are still not sure. We have room for up to 16 so please respond soon. We can find more room if necessary though. This is what I have sent to the ones that are interested: > Please confirm if you plan to attend so I can come up with a list. > The Swamp gig is from Sunday April 9th to 12/13th. > > I will also have for sale from TDI 'Tango-go' - 15 copies (we'll be the > first ones to have them) and 5 copies of 'Soundmill Navigator' - first > come first serve. I'll sell them at my cost of $18. Also, bring an > extra TD item for the drawings that we'll have. We'll I'm looking > forward to it - should be fun. We'll also have some original music too! > > Oh, remember that the gates to the park close at 7PM. So you must be in > by then. > > Call or e-mail me if you have questions: Vic From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:34 am Subject: Gradwohl Internet Site Hi! Found in the TD guestbook: Gerald Gradwohl Guitar Site. Great site by one of TD's live guitarists. URL: http://www.gradwohl.at/ Just for your info. I added the link in my TD-LINKS page, too. Rainer - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: 'C Chambers' Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee TD Trip Vic, Hi, sorry to be so unsure at this point, but I just started a new job on Weds. and it may be difficult to commit yet. I definitely want to attend, but I have to wait closer to the date to know for sure. If I am able to attend, I can always make accomodations for myself (tent, car, etc...) Again, I appreciate you organizing all of this but it is just difficult to commit with so much going on in my work situation. Craig > From: Vic Rek > > Hi TD fans! > > So far we have about 11 people that will most likely attend the TD > Okefenokee Swap gig. I also have about 5 that are still not sure. > > We have room for up to 16 so please respond soon. We can find more room > if necessary though. > > This is what I have sent to the ones that are interested: > > > Please confirm if you plan to attend so I can come up with a list. > > The Swamp gig is from Sunday April 9th to 12/13th. > > > > I will also have for sale from TDI 'Tango-go' - 15 copies (we'll be the > > first ones to have them) and 5 copies of 'Soundmill Navigator' - first > > come first serve. I'll sell them at my cost of $18. Also, bring an > > extra TD item for the drawings that we'll have. We'll I'm looking > > forward to it - should be fun. We'll also have some original music too! > > > > Oh, remember that the gates to the park close at 7PM. So you must be in > > by then. > > > > Call or e-mail me if you have questions: > > Vic > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/953420984/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21266 Re: Okefenokee TD Trip C Chambers Sun 3/19/2000 2 KB 21604 Re: Okefenokee TD Trip Vic Rek Tue 4/4/2000 4 KB 21699 Re: Okefenokee TD Trip C. Chambers Wed 4/5/2000 5 KB From: 'C Chambers' Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:18 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee TD Trip Oooops! This was meant for Vic only...sorry! > Vic, > > Hi, sorry to be so unsure at this point, but I just started a new job on > Weds. and it may be difficult to commit yet. I definitely want to attend, BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! From: 'teiwaz _' Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:46 am Subject: escalators and auction houses hmm, back to this topic again (I think) it seems that the argument on this list over items of non-official release hurting the artist seem to revolve around the artist getting ripped off--which is true. Hmm, nothing new here so far, but what about the sale of used official releases sold at auction or in record shops that resell used music sometimes for exhorbitant prices? It's obvious that the artist gets ripped off twice here--once by the record company and once by the reseller. Perhaps someone can tell me where the artist's resale cut goes. --teiwaz np Topping out ceremony ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:46 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Two Lists + One Name = Trouble >From: Steven Feldman >Reply-To: tadream@o... >To: Tangerine Dream mailing list , Tangerine Dream >mailing list >Subject: [tadream] Two Lists + One Name = Trouble >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:15:16 EST > For example, my fave TD albums are EPSILON IN MALAYSIAN PALE and >MARS POLARIS. Note that one is a *solo album* rather than an actual TD >album, while the other is -- horrors! -- one of those beat-heavy albums >by that 'bad drummer.' Too fucking bad. They're both great. So I'm >not in a Schmoelling phase anymore. Also too fucking bad. Go ahead, >make some comment about my having a period or PMS . . . see if I care. Just to lob my own opinion, the tracks OS 452 and PA 701, are about the only bits of Edgar's solo stuff that spin my bowtie. And as for Mars Polaris, I bought it I'm considering an e-bay auction... :/ The packaging is pretty shoddy. The center part doesn't hold the CD anymore (half the pieces of the little ring have broken off and the lid doesn't stay on anymore. And I didn't even judge the packaging as part of my opinion! The music itself? I've tried, I've really tried. In fact I'm listening to it now for a 5th time trying to find enough to love. It sure didn't take this much bloody effort to FALL IN LOVE with an album like Logos, Phaedra, Dream Mixes I (not Timesquare though), Poland, and Force Majeure. One listen each and people were asking me if I got lucky the night before... I'll post a full review of Mars Polaris (I'm sure this isn't Mars Polaris week but why conform?) in a day or two. -Morgan n.p. Mars Polaris, after playing Cyclone again--a cool TD album with a distinct Altoids-strength dose of wierdness. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Jared White Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 6:07 am Subject: Shameless plug for my mailing list :) Hi, folks, As you may remember, I run a mailing list complimentary to this one that focuses specifically on TD's music and related topics from 1988-present, called 'Art of Vision'. We're in the process of starting up a weekly track discussion, similar to the weekly album discussion going on here, and I just wanted to let you know that in case you're interested in participating. If you want to join, or just find out more, drop by http://www.onelist.com/group/artofvision and check it out. BTW, Steven, I think it's nice to have more than one list for TD. It helps reduce the noise, OT discussions, and such. Some people are more interested in 'fan tapes' than others, some people are more interested in specifically modern TD subjects than others, etc. Some people are on all the lists, or just one. It works for me, I think it works for most other people as well. Anyway, take care, and I hope to hear from a few 'famous' fans on the other side! ;) Take care, Jared P. S. I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to 'steal' anyone away from Joe's list here -- that's not my intention at all. I just think the more avenues for fun and interesting discussions, the better. Hope you don't mind.... Talk you later! __________________________________________ Jared White E-mail: jwhite@g... GaelDesign: http://www.gaeldesign.com The Digital Fine Art Gallery: http://www.gaeldesign.com/gallery Distant Oaks (Celtic Music Ensemble): http://www.distantoaks.com Personal Site: http://www.sonic.net/~jwhite Try BeOS Today! http://www.be.com From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:47 am Subject: Fan taping / bootlegging Gents, some clarifications: I didn't intend to personally insult Morgan with my first reply. But, his statement was so grossly and dangerously off line, and at the same time, typical, that I used strong language to counterpoint it. If you see the statement on their Q&A page, together with Martin's reaction, you will understand that TD's interpretation of each and every 'soft, debatable' term in this statement is on the other side of the interpretation scale compared to Morgan's. Comments on mails by Morgan, Dennis, Chris and Dan: >The Logostypes comment is a commonly held rumor and let's face it, >how else would such a high-quality version of this music appear in >1982 when portable taping technology was in its infancy? How about, by a TD employee or stagehand illegally copying the soundboard tape (which itself is ALWAYS done) ? >TD may be fairly relaxed about bootlegs and tolerate them, but >this doesn't alter the fact that boot traders are technically and >legally on the wrong side of copyright law. I wouldn't call TD relaxed, but the second half of this statement hits it full on. >That's just how it works. You have to accept that it's part of the >biz, as it were. Even if a band would accept that: in countries like Germany, violation of copyright has to be prosecuted whenever authorities get wind of them, WITHOUT waiting for a complaint to be filed. And, regardless of there being any money/profit involved. Of course, we all have our own 'moral' justifications and views, and I would be the last one to debate them. All I'm telling you is - do NOT net let this lull you into the impression that you are NOT in the middle of a legal minefield. >I've seen/heard about bootlegging for YEARS AND YEARS, and they've >tried to stop it. It hasn't stopped yet, and IMHO I Don't see that >happening. Not the trade as a whole. But, among the hundreds of bootleg sellers e.g. on ebay, you will see a certain fluctuation. a) Some going out of business because they got prosecuted, b) some coming in because of greed c) or because they were not aware of the legal implications of what they are doing. My ONLY intention is to prevent migration from bin c) to bin a), those in b) don't deserve any better. klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21281 Re: Fan taping / bootlegging joe shoults Mon 3/20/2000 4 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:26 pm Subject: Solar Eclipse Cd with TD music Hi! New infos about the Solar Eclipse (Sonnenfinsternis) CD. 1) Hurry! The guyes form INTET have approx. 50 copies left (not 96!) and these are selling fast. Stefan (from INET) told me, to reserve some of the CD for our TD-fan-group. But not too long. 2) I ordered 10 more CDs for all the guys who wrote me an email from overseas or inside europe to reserve one. So I did. Stay tuned, you'll get it ASAP. At the moment I have approx. 7 reservations for this item. 3) A special note for my german friends: Please write me an email, if you want to order it by yourself. Or shall I reserve one of my copies? I have to know. So I order some more. (In german: An alle, die aus Deutschland sind, und bei mir eine Sonnenfinsternis CD 'bestellt' haben. Bitte sagt mir Bescheid, ob ihr eine Kopie von mir haben wollt, oder ob ihr sie euch selbst bestellen wollt. Ich muss es wissen, damit ich weitere bestellen kann/muss/soll.) This will be the last change to get this collectors item. See: www.rutka.de/td -> NEW(s) -> Solar Eclipse CD Rainer PS: I do this for non profit only. Just want to help :*) --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:32 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD in ENCARTA CD by MS, Solar Eclipse CD On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Richard Ford wrote: > From: Richard Ford > > >Just a note: Everybody who's interested in the Solar Eclipse CD should > Hi > I'd be interested if you have any joy. > All the best > Richard Ford OK Richard! One copy of the CD is reserved for you! I'll get the next bulk during next week. Bye. Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 2:04 pm Subject: [tadream] CDs offered Hi all, I've had duplicates of the following two CDs in my collection for a while now, and I'd like to try to exchange them for something I don't have: Electronic Meditation (remastered, Castle Communications ESM CD 345) Limited World Tour Edition 1997 (TDI 005 CD, copy 4241 of 5000) They are both in mint condition, never been played, in fact the latter is still in its plastic wrapping, never opened. I'd be prepared to swap both of these for any one of the following choices (also in mint condition): Oasis (new version with 'Chia Maroon') Canyon Dreams (new version with 'Rocky Mountain Hawk') Luminous Visions Tang-go - The Best of Tangerine Dream 1990-2000 The Story of Tangerine Dream The Best of Tangerine Dream - The Pink Years and The Blue Years (counts as one) Atlantic Bridges and Atlantic Walls (counts as one) I'm sure there's someone out there who has one of the above in their collection or can easily get hold of them... Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21274 Soundmill Navigator Lambert Ringlage Sun 3/19/2000 2 KB From: Lambert Ringlage Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 5:07 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator The new Tangerine Dream CD 'Soundmill Navigator' (Berlin 1976) will be available on March 28th onwards. Price for each CD 33,- DM including postage within Germany 36,- DM including postage within Europe 40,- DM including postage outside Europe If you are interested, let me know Lambert Ringlage Messings Garten 7 D-45147 Essen Germany phone/fax: 0049-(0)201-733018 E-mail: lambert@s... Homepage: http://www.sphericmusic.de From: Andrew Rozsa Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 7:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator in America From CD Universe: Tangerine Dream - Soundmill Navigator $11.97 Status: Pre-Order Now! Available: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 Tangerine Dream - Tango $13.97 Status: Pre-Order Now! Available: Tuesday, April 04, 2000 Tangerine Dream - Great Wall Of China (Sdtk) $13.57 Status: In Stock Tangerine Dream - Tangents Box Set $45.97 Status: Pre-Order Now! Available: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 From: 'David Foster' Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:18 pm Subject: fan taping / bootlegs / compilations Hi folks. I agree with what's been said about bootlegs and financial ripping off of artists. The music TD do live is so good it's understandable that fans want to share it in order to hear more from around the globe. During one of their performances I hear so much stuff I can't take it in at the time. A tape helps appreciate it all at a later date. It is a credit to artists that they do so much in a concert and a credit to the tapers that they sit quiet during the performance to capture it. We are lucky that technology existed so we can now hear Rheims 74 and Montreal 77 and people had the foresight to tape it. The fan tapers I knew years back were basically dedicated followers who swapped tapes mostly without money ever changing hands. They supported the group, went to the concerts, bought the band's official releases and merchandise. Just think how many others they gave the opportunity to hear the music, who probably then supported the group, bought the merchandise etc., etc........generated money for the artists. Sadly, whatever is said some will try to make money by selling bootlegs. Commercial interests even led to the ending of the Official Fan Club. And because fan tapers exist there is material available to bootleg with. What can you do? As Edgar says If you don't like the music don't buy it. Equally If you don't want bootlegs don't buy them or don't make tapes available to others. Personally I want more official CD's of live music. The fact that people buy bootlegs (mostly I haven't) of old stuff shows that there is demand that the band could meet with legitimate recordings (legal contractural obligations permitting) and receive royalties on. May be some bands don't want to release that sort of stuff. That just denies some of us pleasure. Let's not forget that artists / record labels / management do compilations, repackaging and remixes. Is that ripping off the public? It depends what the stuff is. I don't feel good buying a whole CD of old stuff just to hear one new track. Usually I don't. So I don't have Pink years, Blue years and multi boxed sets. Tapes and bootlegs do good as well as harm and to an extent they support other industries like the blank cassette manufacturers and eBay staff. There should be no sin in being a live taper. Just keep it off the list. THANK YOU to the live tapers. Feel free to contact me off list. David fozdg@d... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gary Davis Date: Sun Mar 19, 2000 11:39 pm Subject: TD releases Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter it out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here's some excerpts specifically for TD fans. On our Voiceprint page you'll find a whole slew of albums soon to be released including: Tangerine Dream/Great Wall of China - Tangerine Dream's soundtrack to this international video production was inspired by breathtaking pictures of The Great Wall of China. This recording mirrors the fascination for one of the biggest man-made constructions built around 700 B.C. The Great Wall Of China spans a total of 50,000 km, in length and was built to defend the Chinese provinces from rival tribes. The 11 compositions on this album show the many facets of the 3,000 years of history of the wall. Tangerine Dream/Tang-Go - Tang-Go is a double cd compilation of 24 tracks from their own TDI label, covering the period 1990 to 2000. Compiled by the band members themselves, this is an ideal introduction to the magic of Tangerine Dream's music. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop@a... phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm From: Jared White Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 2:06 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Invisible Shadows. > From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' > > Hi folks ! > Just wanted to say thanks to who ever sugested sending an e-mail to > Invisible Shadows in Germany to obtain there free promo CD . > It arrived today safe and sound , listening to it now and am so far > impressed . > Thanks Again Carl ' Orch ' I'm pleased to say I got it too, and I'm here in California, USA! Cool! I enjoyed it very much, and I have to say (although I was already biased) that I thought Pyramid Peak was definitely the highlight of the album. I don't have any album of theirs (yet), but I'd fallen in love with the MP3's they had on their site before I got the Gift, and I enjoyed the piece on the Gift very much. So far, they sound like the best 'neo-classical EM' band I've sampled yet, and I intend on ordering Ocean Drive very soon. I really like the current trend towards classic EM once again, yet I'm also rather disgusted at the amount of TD-clone stuff going on. Can't people come up with their own style??? I don't care HOW great Encore was and I don't care HOW great some new band is that sounds like Encore. They ain't TD, and that's all that matters. I certainly know that rather than being remembered as doing 'great music in the style of Tangerine Dream', I'd want to be remembered as doing 'great music in the style of ME'. We don't need 'another Tangerine Dream'. We already got Tangerine Dream. We need a 'somebody else' to carry the torch into the future. We don't remember, say, Mike Oldfield as doing great music in the style of somebody else. We remember Mike Oldfield as doing great music in the style of Mike Oldfield, and no one else sounds quite like him. That's where the brilliance lies. And, if someone does sound like him, it's because they ripped him off, and I just can't stand that. No, sir! Sorry if I offended anyone, but I'm a strange mixture of traditionalist and originalist. I believe it's possible to be very traditional, yet highly original -- but it's very difficult to do that, and only the best of the bunch can pull it off. Good luck, folks! :) Regards, Jared __________________________________________ Jared White E-mail: jwhite@g... GaelDesign: http://www.gaeldesign.com The Digital Fine Art Gallery: http://www.gaeldesign.com/gallery Distant Oaks (Celtic Music Ensemble): http://www.distantoaks.com Personal Site: http://www.sonic.net/~jwhite Try BeOS Today! http://www.be.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21279 Re: Invisible Shadows -- PS Jared White Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB From: Jared White Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 2:13 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Invisible Shadows -- PS P. S. I want to make it clear that, for the most part, I thought the material on the Gift didn't like TD-rip-offs at all -- some of it was really very original sounding. I was quite impressed, and I wish the best of luck to the Invisible Shadows label and the artists they're producing. Take care, Jared From: Bert.Hulshoff@N... Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 7:57 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Invisible Shadows. I got the cd monday 13-3-2000. Indeed a very good sampler with nice songs, Jens Peschke of Kubusschnitt is also on it. last week I almost listend to this cd only. Especially Schulze and TD fans must have this album. Nice and for free go to http://www.invisible-shadow.de , or send an email with your own adress to invisible-shadow@m..., and ask for the Gift album. Keep on Dreamin' Bert aka Phrozenlight my Homepage http://go.to/phrozenlight/ (still under construction) please listen to my spacesongs and send me an review ;-) > ---------- > From: Carl & Jacqui > Kearney[SMTP:Carl-Jacqui@K...] > Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 00:20 > To: TD EMAIL > Subject: [tadream] Invisible Shadows. > > From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' > > Hi folks ! > Just wanted to say thanks to who ever sugested sending an e-mail to > Invisible Shadows in Germany to obtain there free promo CD . > It arrived today safe and sound , listening to it now and am so far > impressed . > Thanks Again Carl ' Orch ' > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/953335365/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > From: 'joe shoults' Date: Wed Sep 20, 2000 11:18 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Fan taping / bootlegging > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Beschorner [mailto:klaus@c...] ... > All I'm telling you is - do NOT net let this lull you into the > impression that you are NOT in the middle of a legal minefield. ... > > Not the trade as a whole. But, among the hundreds of bootleg sellers > e.g. on ebay, you will see a certain fluctuation. > a) Some going out of business because they got prosecuted, > b) some coming in because of greed > c) or because they were not aware of the legal implications of what > they are doing. Agreed. Ignorance notwithstanding, it is clear in any of these auction sites' Terms of Service or Licensing Agreements that they abide by the copyright terms and policies of that site. It is the seller's contractual responsibility to ensure the legality of goods sold. Just because they didn't read the rules doesn't indemnify them. I think of it in terms of the simple economics: each music consumer only has a 'x' they can potentially spend on music. If part of that money goes to a sales channel that doesn't benefit the real owner, then that illicit channel is essentially taking that potential money from the legitimate channel. While we would like to think that the artists themselves are the ultimate beneficiaries, unfortunately, this is not always the case (i.e. Snapper Records and Ozric Tentacles), but wouldn't you rather the money go to the legitimate artist/channel? However small the portion, would that not be a 'thank you' for the benefit you gain from it? I think I remember Edgar making comments on getting screwed over by past labels, or something to that effect. It would be interesting to know to which labels/albums he is referring. I wonder if there are any of TD's past albums for which TD does not receive ANY money? > My ONLY intention is to prevent migration from bin c) to bin a), > those in b) don't deserve any better. > > klaus > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/953459172/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 12:51 pm Subject: getting screwed joe shoults wrote: > I think I remember Edgar making comments on getting screwed over by past > labels, or something to that effect. It would be interesting to know to > which labels/albums he is referring. I wonder if there are any of TD's past > albums for which TD does not receive ANY money? Just yesterday I heard an old radio interview from 1981 where Edgar told the interviewer that it did cost them (TD) 180.000 DM (approx. US$ 90.000 nowadays) to finally get out of the contract they had with the Ohr label and getting rid of Rolf-Ulrich Kaiser & his 'Cosmic Couriers' nonsense. Quite an amount of money if you'd ask me! Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21283 Re: getting screwed joe shoults Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB From: 'joe shoults' Date: Wed Sep 20, 2000 11:54 am Subject: RE: [tadream] getting screwed what is the 'Rolf-Ulrich Kaiser & his 'Cosmic Couriers' nonsense.'? > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] > Just yesterday I heard an old radio interview from 1981 where > Edgar told the > interviewer that it did cost them (TD) 180.000 DM (approx. US$ > 90.000 nowadays) > to finally get out of the contract they had with the Ohr label > and getting rid > of Rolf-Ulrich Kaiser & his 'Cosmic Couriers' nonsense. Quite an > amount of money > if you'd ask me! > From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 1:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] getting screwed joe shoults wrote: > what is the 'Rolf-Ulrich Kaiser & his 'Cosmic Couriers' nonsense.'? I fear my English is too limited to explain this to you in detail, but the 'Cosmic Couriers' was Kaiser's idea of presenting the so-called 'Krautrock' (i hate this term) music made by artists who were signed to his label (like Ash Ra Tempel, Walter Wegmüller, etc.) His methods of releasing music was sometimes rather doubtful, for example he taped some jam sessions by Manuel Goettsching & some studio musicians (which were made just for fun) and released them as official albums (which had such classic titles like 'Planetary sit-in', 'Gille's Timeship', etc.) without paying royalties to them. Also the image of the 'Cosmic Couriers' was rather hilarious & absurd to say the least. Heiko P.S.: no review of the classic 'Underwater twilight' yet?? From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 1:55 pm Subject: Grab it before it's too late! Here is the ULTIMATE collectors' item to all you TD fans out there! ~LOL~ From Karel Von Appel at Sat, 18/Mar/00 00:50: I'm selling my car. Audi A4, looks new, it is (1998). Reason? For you fans, a deal: Jerome threw up on the hood after too much beer. Never washed it since then. Who could dream of a more personnal relic. Own something that was part of Jerome! Contact me please... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21291 Re: Grab it before it's too late! Gabe Yedid Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB 21307 Re: Grab it before it's too late! Paul Fellows Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB From: 'Kevin Earley' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 2:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Fan taping / bootlegging Greetings, Just an observation regarding these Fan Taping/Trading. Bootlegging is obviously bad, as someone else is profiting from the Artist's work. But Fan Taping/Trading is not much better, because it lessens the control an Artist has over his/her work. Sure, Fan Taping/Trading does not usually involve money changing hands, but now there is an artistic work in circulation, that the Artist has no control over. There may even be legal ramifications - how can the Artist maintain copyright over such a work? It may be possible to legally argue that such a work is now in the public domain. As Klaus said right at the beginning of this discussion - don't kid yourself that this isn't a legal minefield. Kevin Earley kearley@r... np: KS - Body Love Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21292 Re: Fan taping / bootlegging Feldon Feldon Mon 3/20/2000 3 KB 21336 Re: Fan taping / bootlegging aoutland@a... Wed 3/22/2000 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 2:35 pm Subject: D:Studio [Underwater twilight] This week is about one of my fave TD albums of all time. Not on par with, let's say, 'Logos' or 'Ricochet' but still a cracker. When I bought the album after its release I was shocked when I looked at the back sleeve....where was Johannes Schmoelling? The internet was still a million miles away and new information about TD (such as changes in the line-up or album release schedules) was almost impossible to get (at least for me). So it came with a shock when I saw this picture of the young Austrian with spikey hair who replaced Johannes Schmoelling. But my worries soon were over when I listened to the entire album, and nowadays I enjoy it even more because I can listen to the beautiful piano intro on 'Song of the whale' (Pt. 2) without hearing disturbing noises caused by the vinyl. Some of you may disagree but I prefer Side 2 to 'Song of the whale'. 'Dolphin dance' is an all-time classic (except for the lead lines the song was already been used on the 1982 'The Soldier' soundtrack) and I guess it has been included on nearly every 'Best of ' compilation. Everything feels right about this track and it shows TD as the true synth gods (ok, a bit exaggeration on my part ;-) This would be a highlight on *any* EM album. Not much to say about the other tracks except that there is not a weak track (or tune) on this album. But I wish I could have been at one of TD's shows back in 1986 when they performed large parts of this album. Must've been a truly great show. Heiko n.p.: Quinoa (fan club edition) From: 'Kevin Earley' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 2:31 pm Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] Invisible Shadows. >>> Jared White 03/19 9:06 PM >>> From: Jared White > I really like the current trend towards classic > EM once again, yet I'm also rather disgusted at the amount of TD-clone > stuff going on. Can't people come up with their own style??? I don't > care HOW great Encore was and I don't care HOW great some new band is > that sounds like Encore. They ain't TD, and that's all that matters. Hey Jared, Just a reply to your comment. Rather then thinking of these bands as TD-Clones, you may wish to think of them of BS (Berlin School) bands instead. Think of the Blues. How much has this genre changed since the advent of the Electric Guitar and the Chicago Blues style in the 1950's? I prefer to think of these bands as simply people who are making music in the style first promoted by Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze. Some of it is good, some of it isn't. > P. S. I want to make it clear that, for the most part, I thought the > material on the Gift didn't like TD-rip-offs at all -- some of it was > really very original sounding. I was quite impressed, and I wish the > best of luck to the Invisible Shadows label and the artists they're > producing. I see that we actually agree :) Kevin Earley kearley@r... np: KS - Body Love From: 'joe shoults' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 3:06 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] escalators and auction houses > -----Original Message----- > From: teiwaz _ [mailto:teiwazbarana@h...] ... > Hmm, nothing new here so far, but what about the sale of used > official releases sold at auction or in record shops that > resell used music sometimes for exhorbitant prices? ... Personally, I don't agree with this- I don't think it is any different than a painting. Unless you think each time a Picasso gets sold, you should send a commission to his estate, or to any artist if they're still alive. Official releases are examples of licensed works for which the proper sales channel was already properly compensated when it was originally sold- and illegal copies are not being sold. Obviously, when the sale of a work of art never goes through a legitimate channel, this is the bad thing. Even when someone spends a tremendous amount of time and effort processing and cleaning up fan tapes, compiling works, interviews and stuff for a compilation boot like EO, it is not legit no matter how much ownership they think they have earned through their efforts. joe From: 'Thomas' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 3:19 pm Subject: Fan taping and related subjects Hello, I've been sitting back, comfortably lurking, watching the discussion going on. And what a strange discussion it is. But it's good to clarify once and for all that bootlegging, fan taping and such is in fact illegal. If I had been the artist in a similar situation, I know that I would be pissed off - bigtime. Not only for screwing up the integrity of my work, but also for taking credit and earning money on something I had created. No need to go futher than to yourself. I'm sure that most people agree with me. I think I'll dive back under the surface again... Thomas Helsingborg, Sweden Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21309 Re: Fan taping and related subjects twosheds Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB From: Gabe Yedid Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 3:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Grab it before it's too late! On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Heiko Heerssen wrote: > From Karel Von Appel at Sat, 18/Mar/00 00:50: > I'm selling my car. Audi A4, looks new, it is (1998). Reason? For you > fans, a deal: Jerome threw up on the hood after too much beer. > Never washed it since then. Who could dream of a more personnal relic. > Own something that was part of Jerome! Contact me > please... Woo! I had no idea he was still such a 'wild man'! ;-) (OTOH, if he binges often, it can't be too good for his skills...) cheers, Gabe From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 3:56 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Fan taping / bootlegging >From: 'joe shoults' >Reply-To: tadream@o... >To: >Subject: RE: [tadream] Fan taping / bootlegging >Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:18:58 -0400 > > >I think of it in terms of the simple economics: each music consumer only >has >a 'x' they can potentially spend on music. If part of that money goes to a >sales channel that doesn't benefit the real owner, then that illicit >channel >is essentially taking that potential money from the legitimate channel. >While we would like to think that the artists themselves are the ultimate >beneficiaries, unfortunately, this is not always the case (i.e. Snapper >Records and Ozric Tentacles), but wouldn't you rather the money go to the >legitimate artist/channel? However small the portion, would that not be a >'thank you' for the benefit you gain from it? As I've said, I have every single TD album I want to purchased. Anything live I have is from something that I would MUCH rather have bought in pristine undoctored quality than have an mp3 or CDR laying around that was recorded 6 rows back and that didn't benefit Edgar and Co. financially. >I think I remember Edgar making comments on getting screwed over by past >labels, or something to that effect. It would be interesting to know to >which labels/albums he is referring. My guesses: Virgin and Miramar of course. Virgin for not letting him release as much stuff as he wanted (hence my persistant opinion that Edgar isn't angry that we have some non-profit recordings of material that he couldn't get published), and Miramar for repackaging TD's music however they saw fit (I don't think it was Edgar's idea to do all those CD5 discs where you pay $9 for one new song and 4 old songs). Flame away! -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 4:48 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Legend Suite MIDI? I've run across a track called 'Dream Mixes 2 : Legend Suite'. It sounds like it's from scratch (not a remix or overdub) and not done by TD. It could almost be a recording of a really good MIDI file... Anyone know if there is a Legend Suite MIDI file floating around or if someone covered this track? It's pretty close to the Legend Suite but very obviously not done by TD. I checked my Tangerine Ambience CDs and neither one has Legend on it. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21296 Re: Legend Suite MIDI? Heos Holding Mon 3/20/2000 3 KB From: 'Thomas' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:00 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] Legend Suite MIDI? Hi Morgan, the song you're referring to comes from an album called Tangerine Dream 'Dream Music 2'. It's a compilation album with film music written by TD, half of the songs are covers and half is performed by TD. This particular song is by Mark Ayres. I don't think the members of Tangerine Dream had anything to do with this material being released, but an interesting piece anyway. Here's a full tracklisting for you: 1. Legend - Suite / Mark Ayres (07.22) 2. Intersection - trailer music / John Beal, adapted from 'Dead solid perfect' (01.51) 3. Dead Solid Perfect - Suite / Original Soundtrack Recording (14.39) 4-6. HEARTBREAKERS / Origianal Soundtrack Recording 4. Footbridge to Heaven (02.56) 5. Twilight Painter (04.16) 6. Desire (05.35) 7. Theme from Streethawk / Daniel Caine (03.13) 8-12.CATCH ME IF YOU CAN / Original Soundtrack Recording 8. Dylan's Future (04.43) 9. Dylan's at Home Alone (03.28) 10. Widow - Maker Race (02.45) 11. Dylan's Triumph (04.17) 12. Catch me if You Can Main Theme (01.47) 13. Risky Business - Love on a Real Train / Mark Ayres (04.28) 1995 Silva Screen Records America / Silva America SSD1053 Hope this helps, Thomas Helsingborg, Sweden > From: 'Feldon Feldon' > > I've run across a track called 'Dream Mixes 2 : Legend Suite'. It sounds > like it's from scratch (not a remix or overdub) and not done by TD. It could > almost be a recording of a really good MIDI file... Anyone know if there is > a Legend Suite MIDI file floating around or if someone covered this track? > > It's pretty close to the Legend Suite but very obviously not done by TD. I > checked my Tangerine Ambience CDs and neither one has Legend on it. > > -Morgan From: Steven Feldman Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:15 pm Subject: BIRTH OF A BLACK HOLE by Syndromeda Hi All, This is a forwarded message/review of a Tangerine Dream-esque CD that was posted to the Space Music mailing list: -- Steven Feldman + + + + + + + Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:18:06 -0500 Subject: [SPACEMUSIC] Review : 'Birth Of A Black Hole' by Syndromeda Message-Id: From: spacemusic@o... Really-From: Chuck van Zyl Review: 'Birth Of A Black Hole' by Syndromeda (Groove) The spacemusic realized by Tangerine Dream during the mid-70s and early 80s inspired a generation to listen to and create music differently from what they'd been taught or imagined. We know now that a huge void was created when TD moved on to other areas of musical expression. Of the many groups and artists moved to create music in the mode the Tang's envisioned is Syndromeda. The latest CD is out on the Groove label and entitled: 'Birth Of A Black Hole'. Syndromeda, Belgian synthesist Danny Bundts, creates pattern oriented, rapidly developing, sequencer driven pieces seemingly meant to accompany a fantastic inter-stellar space mission. Conveyed through his music, Syndromeda's vision is shared by the engrossed listener. 'Birth Of A Black Hole' is cerebral but not in a hypnotic way. The music is quite active and tightly arranged, changing tempo, moving chords and focusing on melody throughout, keeping the listener involved and imagining different urgent scenarios. The presence of the occasional vocoder voice narration adds to the already otherworldy sci-fi vibe. 'Birth Of A Black Hole' is evocative of space travel beyond the laws of early 21st century physics. It has been made to enjoy while considering distances measured in light years as opposed to miles. Any self respecting traveller beyond the speed of light wouldn't leave the spaceport without this music blasting in their shuttle cockpit. Tune in to STAR'S END this weekend for music from the latest CD by Syndromeda, 'Birth Of A Back Hole'. For more on the web about 'Birth Of A Black Hole', please access: http://www.groove.nl Chuck van Zyl Host: Star's End http://www.starsend.org chuckv@s... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/5/_/429062/_/953342178/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: 'Heos Holding' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Legend Suite MIDI? Hi Feldon, if you wish, I have Legend Suite in mp3 format. It's a 6MB file. It is not by TD, but I don't know who is the performer. I found you today on Napster, but my computer had a crash down and I lost the opportunity. Let me know. bye max ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Feldon Feldon To: tadream@o... Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] Legend Suite MIDI? From: 'Feldon Feldon' I've run across a track called 'Dream Mixes 2 : Legend Suite'. It sounds like it's from scratch (not a remix or overdub) and not done by TD. It could almost be a recording of a really good MIDI file... Anyone know if there is a Legend Suite MIDI file floating around or if someone covered this track? It's pretty close to the Legend Suite but very obviously not done by TD. I checked my Tangerine Ambience CDs and neither one has Legend on it. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://www.tadream.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Steven Feldman Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 5:20 pm Subject: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists Hi, For those who have joined us only recently, it might be beneficial to say that there are currently *four* different Tangerine Dream mailing lists on Onelist: o tadream -- the generic, unmoderated list (Flamewar Central, hee hee) o tangerinedream -- the moderated, anti-flame, anti-bootlegging list o artofvision -- the list for fans of latter-day (late 80s-to-Y2K) TD o goblinsclub -- the list for hardcore musings over catalog numbers, matrix stamp numbers, foreign pressings, ad nauseum I am subscribed to all four, but I must tell you: the more lists I subscribe to, the more posts I delete in a given day. ;) Steve Feldman (Me) -- 33 Brook Street; Brookline, MA 02445; 617-232-3876; . Robert Carty -- 5478 S. 235 E. #E; Murray, UT 84107; 801-281-2157; http://www.california.com/~eameece/carty.htm. Peter Gulch/ Nightcrawlers -- 1493 Greenwood Ave.; Camden, NJ 08103; ; http://www.voicenet.com/~pgulch/special.html. MAJOR E-MUSIC FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Robert Carty, Moroder -- *not* Kraftwerk! +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | TD DISCOGRAPHY http://members.spree.com/molasar/tadream/tadream2.html | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From: Bennett Cookson Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 6:39 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists Ok I'm confused... I belong to tadream and I thought I belonged to 'the moderated, anti-flame, anti-bootlegging list' There seems to be more instances of flaming and boot talk lately so... Will the real moderated list clearly identify itself --Bennett -----Original Message----- From: Steven Feldman [mailto:ar402004@b...] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 10:21 AM To: Tangerine Dream mailing list Subject: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists From: Steven Feldman Hi, For those who have joined us only recently, it might be beneficial to say that there are currently *four* different Tangerine Dream mailing lists on Onelist: o tadream -- the generic, unmoderated list (Flamewar Central, hee hee) o tangerinedream -- the moderated, anti-flame, anti-bootlegging list o artofvision -- the list for fans of latter-day (late 80s-to-Y2K) TD o goblinsclub -- the list for hardcore musings over catalog numbers, matrix stamp numbers, foreign pressings, ad nauseum I am subscribed to all four, but I must tell you: the more lists I subscribe to, the more posts I delete in a given day. ;) Steve Feldman (Me) -- 33 Brook Street; Brookline, MA 02445; 617-232-3876; . Robert Carty -- 5478 S. 235 E. #E; Murray, UT 84107; 801-281-2157; http://www.california.com/~eameece/carty.htm. Peter Gulch/ Nightcrawlers -- 1493 Greenwood Ave.; Camden, NJ 08103; ; http://www.voicenet.com/~pgulch/special.html. MAJOR E-MUSIC FAVES: Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Robert Carty, Moroder -- *not* Kraftwerk! +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | TD DISCOGRAPHY http://members.spree.com/molasar/tadream/tadream2.html | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/937/3/_/24785/_/953573208/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://www.tadream.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21299 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Marcelo Gutierrez Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB 21300 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD joe shoults Mon 3/20/2000 4 KB 21398 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD PENFOLD Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21302 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Joel Mullen Mon 3/20/2000 4 KB 21303 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD joe shoults Mon 3/20/2000 2 KB 21310 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Rudy Russo Tue 3/21/2000 2 KB 21323 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Gabe Yedid Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB 21329 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Jared White Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB 21333 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Jens Peschke Tue 3/21/2000 2 KB From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 7:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists I everyone! Glad to be back from a much needed vacation (not really, I wish I was still on vacation!) > Ok I'm confused... > I belong to tadream and I thought I belonged to 'the moderated, anti-flame, > anti-bootlegging list' > Me too, I always thought that the tadream list was the moderated one and the tangerinedream the unmoderated list, when did this change? while I was gone? > There seems to be more instances of flaming and boot talk lately so... > > Will the real moderated list clearly identify itself > Yes, please! Marcelo From: 'joe shoults' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 8:00 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists > Ok I'm confused... > I belong to tadream and I thought I belonged to 'the > moderated, anti-flame, > anti-bootlegging list' > > Will the real moderated list clearly identify itself? geez, you guys are even confusing me! this, the 'tadream' list, is unmoderated in the literal sense- individual postings do not have to be approved by me or other list moderators, Joel Mullen and Scott Plumer. But it is monitored for relevance and netiquette, or 'anti-flame', as you put it, by design. So, I guess you would call this the 'moderated' list by most people's definition. It is not anti-bootleg, except that we don't allow actual trading on list. Rude, inappropriate or incendiary posts are not welcome. Joel also owns the 'tangerinedream' list, which is more of an unmoderated free-for-all forum, a completely seperate list. He and I created 'tadream' and 'tangerinedream' at exactly the same time, intending them (separately) to be alternatives to the old University of Wisconsin tadream list. Joel held the tangerinedream list dormant for awhile, then kicked it into gear. He is still an active moderator and participant on this list. Jeffery created the 'GoblinsClub' list strictly for trading memorabilia and items, as I understand it. i've seen soem good uses of this list for very specific items. I wasn't sure why Jared created the 'artofvision' list, but in fairness, I haven't joined and don't know anything about it. We can get really crazy with this. How about a separate list for every album? every song? IMHO, 2 is enough, but I've seen some good focused discussion on goblinsclub regarding specific items of memorabilia, but there's no reason that can't be on tangerinedream, except that this sort of trading is exactly why Jeffery set it up. To sum it up: * tadream - monitored. talk about anything, including boots, but be polite. no trading on-list. * tangerinedream - no rules. talk about anything, especially if you don't think is appropriate for tadream (but don't use it like a toilet!) * goblinsclub - very specific trading/memorabilia * artofvision - ? (all the best, jared!) joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21398 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD PENFOLD Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB From: Steven Feldman Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 8:25 pm Subject: tangerinedream vs. tadream: see what I mean? See what I mean? I can't keep them straight: So, the first one is the unmoderated one, while the second one is the moderated one?!? I had it backwards. I guess that's just further proof that there are lots of folks who can't tell the two apart on any given day. -- Steven Feldman From: Joel Mullen Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 8:30 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists Hello all- Here is clarification on what the lists are intended for. On Monday, March 20, 2000 11:21 AM, Steven Feldman [SMTP:ar402004@b...] wrote: > From: Steven Feldman > > Hi, > For those who have joined us only recently, it might be beneficial > to say that there are currently *four* different Tangerine Dream mailing > lists on Onelist: > > o tadream -- the generic, unmoderated list (Flamewar Central, hee hee) **WRONG** tadream is moderated to the extent that personal attacks, persistant bitching about the band you love, and outright offers of bootlegs for sale/trade are discouraged and if you violate that you can (and will) get moderated or just kicked off (with sufficiant warnings) There are 3 people who watch the list and try to keep things in order. tadream is approved by TD (for now anyway) and is our direct line to the band (and Martin) AND we would all like it to stay that way. Flamewar Central it is NOT. But as of late it seems many see it as that. If you want to flame go sub to the list below. > o tangerinedream -- the moderated, anti-flame, anti-bootlegging list **WRONG** tangerinedream is for all purposes UN moderated. There is one person in charge of the list and I, (I mean *he*) doesn't care what you talk about or how much you piss and moan so long as it doesn't get into PERSONAL attacks on list members. (Remember when this list was created the old UW-Parkside list was shut down due to many,many disgusting personal attacks on-list and graphic descriptions of man-on-man sex. All warnings in the description pertain to that type of undesired postings) > o artofvision -- the list for fans of latter-day (late 80s-to-Y2K) TD **CORRECT** I believe this list was created for fans who like current output and want to be able to talk about it without getting beaten over the head with a stack of vinyl. > o goblinsclub -- the list for hardcore musings over catalog numbers, > matrix stamp numbers, foreign pressings, ad nauseum > **CORRECT** utterly boring for some and utterly ESSENTIAL for others (myself included :-) > I am subscribed to all four, but I must tell you: the more lists I > subscribe to, the more posts I delete in a given day. ;) Actually Steven you are about the only one these days that cross-posts every message you send. tadream is the main list for all normal TD discussion and just about everyone who subbs to the other lists subs to tadream as well. But that does not mean that each less-used list does not have a purpose. All minor pressing detail questions I pose to Goblin's Club (for example) and I don't bother 300 people that don't know or give a damn on the tadream list. If people don't want to be bothered by it then they don't sub to Goblins Club. Simple as that. Any questions? Anyone? Regards, Joel From: 'joe shoults' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 9:43 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Mullen [mailto:joelm@p...] ... > > o artofvision -- the list for fans of latter-day (late > > 80s-to-Y2K) TD > > **CORRECT** I believe this list was created for fans who like current > output and want to be able to talk about it without getting > beaten over the head with a stack of vinyl. LOL! very funny. thanks for the clarification. joe From: 'Eric Rochon' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 11:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible Shadows. Received my gift copy of Invisible Shadow yesterday! Great stuff!! I am very impress with the music. Éric From: 'Jan Aunsholt' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 10:23 pm Subject: Sv: [tadream] fan taping / bootlegs / compilations This is probably the oldest and most lame excuse for this activity. No matter how you turn it, it will allways be illegal to tape or distribute bootlegs. The artist do not deny us anything, it is their god giving right to choose what us fans should have access to or not. It is everyones own choice, if they want tapes, bootlegs or what ever, but don't try to make it legal with 1012 different excuses. That won't make it one bit more legal. Jan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21341 Sv: fan taping / bootlegs / compilations Pergamon Wed 3/22/2000 3 KB From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 10:46 pm Subject: Bitchin OK !! Enough is enough , no one else will say it so to keep up with my speak your mind life style here goes ....... IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT GUYS JUST LEAVE .......... Simple if you just give it a little thought ( if your capable of thought that is ) Sick of the moaning ' Orch ' Long live British EM cos this is getting very VERY tedious . From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 11:35 pm Subject: Re : Grab it before it's too late! Hi Heiko, Are you serious about this? Selling a car that Jerome's thrown up over? I don't quite know how to take this message! It's a crazy selling point, and I would like to think that there's no-one out there who would buy a car for such a ridiculous reason, I certainly wouldn't, and if anyone was transparent enough to actually believe this rubbish, they don't deserve to be called a fan, more like deeply disturbed obsessive who needs to get out more often! For the time being, I suggest you visit a car wash sharpish... By the way, what colour is the car? Paul From: 'Carl & Jacqui Kearney' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 11:36 pm Subject: Lesson from my own book. Well guys I would like to say it was nice but the last few weeks have been a pain in the arse . 20 mails a day full of moaning , bitching back stabbing . Too many bad vibes so I am out of here . I have been on the list from the start and it has slowly degenerated into a free for all shit hurling forum , well not for me . I would just like to say thanks to Joe and to Alan Benson for there help in re building my TD collection for the information I have gained from the sensible list members , most of whom have already flown the coup as it were. One last thing I will see you guys at Jodrell next month and I will this time wear the England Rugby shirt OK . Best regards Carl ' Orch ' ICQ 38818818 MIRC ' ORCH ' From: 'twosheds' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 2:47 am Subject: Re: Fan taping and related subjects >I've been sitting back, comfortably lurking, watching the discussion going >on. And what a strange discussion it is. But it's good to clarify once and >for all that bootlegging, fan taping and such is in fact illegal. Actually, according to a friend of mine who is an intellectual property lawyer, taping a concert for your personal use is NOT illegal. Venues don't allow you to bring in recording equipment because they & the artists assume you will produce bootlegs of the show. This is a legitimate concern, but it's just the venue, a private enterprise, not allowing it. You are legally allowed to record anything you witness. It's akin to reporters recording interviews. Producing copies (where the term 'copyright' comes from) is where illegality begins. Reproducing is illegal. >If I had been the artist in a similar situation, I know that I would be >pissed off - bigtime. Not only for screwing up the integrity of my work, >but also for taking credit and earning money on something I had created. I understand the bootleg issue, but enlighten me on the 'integrity' issue. You perform your music in front of hundreds of people, yet you still control the music you perform. How does making a tape of that music compromise your integrity? One thing I'd like to say, that I've said countless other times, is that many bands that allow taping build their fan base for that very reason. Most of the bands I listen to today I would not be listening to (& buying their CD's, going to their concerts, etc.) if they did not allow people to tape their shows. As an example, when Ozric Tentacles came to Cleveland last year, I was talking with a fellow taper outside the show, and he said that he didn't know anything about them except that they allowed taping, so he figured they must be cool. After seeing & taping the show, he was hooked, and another fan was born. Case closed. Scott From: Rudy Russo Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 4:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists > From: Steven Feldman > > For those who have joined us only recently, it > might be beneficial > to say that there are currently *four* different > Tangerine Dream mailing > lists on Onelist: > > o tadream -- the generic, unmoderated list > (Flamewar Central, hee hee) > o tangerinedream -- the moderated, anti-flame, > anti-bootlegging list ^^^^ Maybe I should switch over to that one ^^^^ > o artofvision -- the list for fans of latter-day > (late 80s-to-Y2K) TD Bleah. Why doesn't somebody form a list for discussion of the Froese/Haslinger line-up, and the coupl'a albums they did together? That oughta generate a lotta posts. > o goblinsclub -- the list for hardcore musings over > catalog numbers, matrix stamp numbers, foreign > pressings, ad nauseum *zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* > MAJOR E-MUSIC FAVES: > Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Robert Carty, > Moroder -- *not* Kraftwerk! Whatcha got against Kraftwerk??? Rude __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21323 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Gabe Yedid Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB From: 'Gustavo Jobim' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 7:04 am Subject: GFJM update (middle March) Hellow folks! I'm sorry if you receive this message more than once in different versions, because I'm sending this message to four English-language mailing lists and 2 more lists in Portuguese. To the point: updates in GFJMusica! 1. You can now see what I have in my albums collection - and it will be updated as I get more albums/singles/whatever. 2. Two new excerpts of tracks. The tracks are: 2.1. Atom - a piano-based track, with an introduction that a dreamer can say 'this reminds me of the Atem (from TD) tune'... Yeah, I was a bit inspired by this tune. I like it so much that I want to make a remix or version of it in the future. However, this intro doesn't have much to do with the track itself. It's a piano track, like I said, with some elements such as a house bass to add something to the track, and a guitar which is used as another add-on. The excerpt doesn't have the Atemic intro. 2.2. Alarm - this track sounds like an alarm to me, but I had troubles to name it. It has some drums, but not percussion. It also has bass, the same guitar used in Atom (If I remember correctly) and the lead instrument is a kind of organ. It's one of my own favourites so far, and it's also the biggest - 4:43. Some very interesting things throughout the track, but the excerpt shows only a bit of these - 1:09. Strong candidate for a future (don't even think about asking me when) album. Future track: Quarks (probable name) can be the child of a marriage between Atom and Alarm. The only instrument is still a piano, and after more than 2 minutes, I included the Alarm theme as an evolution of the track. It still needs a lot of work. 3. A minor update: the huge (and Gustavocrazy) page title - The-Bilingual-Homepage-etc-etc-etc-A-Página-Bilingüe-etc was changes to simply GFJMusica. Much easier to remember, and it's not in any language (at least neither Portuguese nor English). I think that's it for now, go there, check the tunes out, give feedback, sign the guestbook (just writing 'hi' there is o.k.), etc. Regards, Gustavo Jobim - GFJMusica - http://gfjm.cjb.net P.S. - After just 1 month + 1 week of life, GFJM has reached 300 hits! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Temp Dontbother' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:06 am Subject: Fan Tapes A lot of you are jumping on the bandwagon to condemn fan taping. I find that highly ironic considering some of you are HUGE traders. This holier than thou crap sticks in my gullet. If you have any boots in your collection, you really shouldn't be opening your mouth about how wrong it is. This is especially true when you are one of 'THE' sources to go to for boots. Gee, who would this be? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 7:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re : Grab it before it's too late! Paul Fellows wrote: > Hi Heiko, > > Are you serious about this? Selling a car that Jerome's thrown up over? I > don't quite know how to take this message! It's a crazy selling point, and > I would like to think that there's no-one out there who would buy a car for > such a ridiculous reason, I certainly wouldn't, and if anyone was > transparent enough to actually believe this rubbish, they don't deserve to > be called a fan, more like deeply disturbed obsessive who needs to get out > more often! > > For the time being, I suggest you visit a car wash sharpish... > > By the way, what colour is the car? > > Paul Oh my....recent postings to the Tadream list are becoming more or more dangerous ;-) I should have mentioned that I took this message from the TD GUESTBOOK! And it was *not me* who wrote that, his name was Karel von Appel (please see below!) >From Karel Von Appel at Sat, 18/Mar/00 00:50: Heiko From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 7:31 am Subject: 4 TD lists Hi all, can one of us, write me the email adress of the following TD lists for subscribe: a.. goblinsclub b.. artofvision Who can help, please write an email offline to: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Bye Heiko [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Pergamon' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 10:03 am Subject: Sv: [tadream] Re: Fan taping and related subjects ----- Original Message ----- From: twosheds To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 3:47 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Fan taping and related subjects > SNIP> > > One thing I'd like to say, that I've said countless other times, is that > many bands that allow taping build their fan base for that very reason. Most > of the bands I listen to today I would not be listening to (& buying their > CD's, going to their concerts, etc.) if they did not allow people to tape > their shows. As an example, when Ozric Tentacles came to Cleveland last > year, I was talking with a fellow taper outside the show, and he said that > he didn't know anything about them except that they allowed taping, so he > figured they must be cool. After seeing & taping the show, he was hooked, > and another fan was born. Case closed. > Scott =) I just couldn't sit back and not respond to this. This is for me just one of the thousands of bad excuses for making it allright or legal. Most people who tapes concerts, distributes that recording, trade it or what ever, so that would make it illegal. To say more people would listen to you, if you as an artist, allows fantaping is rubbish. Regarding the fellow taper you mentioned, I can't understand his point of view. I go for the music itself, if it's good, then I buy the records, not if they allow fantaping or not. I am a musician myself and has been in the situation, where a fan taped one of my gigs and distributed the recording. He was making money and getting credits for recording this......thanks alot. Apparantly he forgot the fact that I made the music, worked hard to create the music and that I have the LEGAL rights to the music. Jan From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 11:13 am Subject: 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Pretty much the last album in my favorite stretch of TD ... It was becoming more melodic, but still had a grand vision... If I remember correctly I saw them live on this tour before actually having the album, and being surprised at this newcomer Haslinger...Who was very good, but I wanted to see Schmoelling... This album stands up well over time to my ears... It has a great dynamic range, some very quiet parts into a wall of sound for example about 5 minutes into Part one: From Dawn also there is some outstanding guitar work from Edgar my favorite being the lick at 6:50...I played this a lot when I got it.... a lot. I can tell this one is quickly going to rejoin the rotation...... Poly From: 'Patrik .' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 3:49 pm Subject: [tadream] 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Gone was Schmoelling, and I was very curious about this new guy Haslinger. And bang! The familiar moog-sequence in Dolphin Dance (from the Soldier soundtrack) made me smile and then this strange mix of sampled 12-string guitar and strings which seem to float in the background. The samples are just breathtaking, Franke´s Emulator and Edgar´s guitar creates a very special sound. I believe Schmoelling and Franke wasn´t too happy about guitars. It has a grand theme with a floating quality in it. I played this record almost every day until Tyger came. I still listen to Underwater, it´s a great album and Haslinger proved to be the right man for it! Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21318 Re: 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Nick Adams Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB 21324 Re: 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Gabe Yedid Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB 21326 Re: 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Patrik . Tue 3/21/2000 2 KB 21328 D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] Marcel Engels Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB 21338 Re: 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Gabe Yedid Wed 3/22/2000 3 KB From: 'Nick Adams' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 12:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' > From: Synthhtnys@a... > > Pretty much the last album in my favorite stretch of TD ... Hmm, imo the last one in this stretch was Live Miles, after that Phooie, > It was becoming more melodic, but still had a grand vision... > If I remember correctly I saw them live on this tour before > actually having the album, and being surprised at this newcomer > Haslinger...Who was very good, but I wanted to see Schmoelling... Same here, when i saw them in Birmingham in 86, i thought who the F*** is that with the stupid hair, still i enjoyed the music that night, i must say Haslinger redeemed himself when he played the piano intro to Ricochet pt 2. > This album stands up well over time to my ears... > It has a great dynamic range, some very quiet parts into a wall of > sound for example about 5 minutes into Part one: From Dawn I'm not a lover of side one of this album ( everybody stands back in amazement ) but i love side 2, Dolphin Dance & Ride on the Ray are really superb. Nick NP Mythos / Strange Guys Home Nicad@c... Work Nick.Adams@p... From: 'joe shoults' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 2:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] 4 TD lists > -----Original Message----- > can one of us, write me the email adress of the following TD > lists for subscribe: > > a.. goblinsclub > b.. artofvision http://www.onelist.com/community/goblinsclub http://www.onelist.com/community/artofvision From: tweibre361@a... Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 2:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 427 In a message dated 3/20/00 17:26:49 Eastern Standard Time, tadream@o... writes: << No matter how you turn it, it will allways be illegal to tape >> incorrect....taping off the radio is perfectly legimate, as are recordings made of public performances... tom w np: studio 1 compilation Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21325 Re: Digest Number 427 Gabe Yedid Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB From: 'joe shoults' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 3:08 pm Subject: ridiculous reactions to fantaping posts (was: Digest Number 427) right. unless you are under contract not to do so by means of the ticket you bought. Read the back of the ticket (go find an old stub). By using that ticket, you accept its terms. Just like the fact that the venue is not liable when a baseball or hockey puck hits you in the head, you agree that you will not take pics, record music, wipe boogers on the stands, etc.. You can agree to those terms, or just not attend. Can you believe- a few people have actually left the list over this discussion! Is this ridiculous, or what? I thought that _I_ was supposed to be the anal retentive reactionary here. ;-) We're just talking about fantaping, that's all. Nobody has to take this personally. Non-profit fantaping is innocuous; for-profit fantaping is vile. Pretty simple, huh? Geez, guys, lighten up a little. Oh, wait a minute, now it's my turn to be anal: DONT FRIGGIN USE DIGEST NUMBERS AS SUBJECTS IN YOUR POSTS!!! There. I feel a little better. joe > -----Original Message----- > incorrect....taping off the radio is perfectly legimate, as > are recordings > made of public performances... From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 11:39 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] fan taping / bootlegs / compilations >From: 'Jan Aunsholt' >The artist do not deny us anything, it is their >god giving right to choose what us fans should have access to or not. True, but sometimes it isnt even the artist that denies or OK's bootlegs. Sometimes the artists just doesnt care at all, but the record company and the publisher can be the ones who fight bootlegging, and they have all the right to do so. So it doesnt matter if the band accepts bootlegs/tapes or not, the law is clear! Pretty much you're allowed to tape from radio and TV or make tapes from official CDs you already own for playing in your car or walkman, but other than that, fan recordings are illegal. If the artist says bootlegs are OK, it doesnt matter - still illegal. It is not for the artist/band to decide. all the best, glenn JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic From: Gabe Yedid Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 4:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Rudy Russo wrote: > From: Rudy Russo > > > o artofvision -- the list for fans of latter-day > > (late 80s-to-Y2K) TD > > Bleah. Why doesn't somebody form a list for discussion > of the Froese/Haslinger line-up, and the coupl'a > albums they did together? That oughta generate a lotta > posts. This is *precisely* the attitude that led to the formation of the artofvision list. Those who post there think that there *is* something to discuss concerning albums after Haslinger's departure. > > o goblinsclub -- the list for hardcore musings over > > catalog numbers, matrix stamp numbers, foreign > > pressings, ad nauseum > > *zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* > > > MAJOR E-MUSIC FAVES: > > Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Robert Carty, > > Moroder -- *not* Kraftwerk! > > Whatcha got against Kraftwerk??? Not everybody likes Kraftwerk, for whatever reason(s), regardless of what their influence on music may have been. What's so strange about that? > Rude Gabe (restraining something that could be construed as personal) From: Gabe Yedid Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 4:50 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Patrik . wrote: > From: 'Patrik .' > > > > Gone was Schmoelling, and I was very curious about this new guy Haslinger. > And bang! The familiar moog-sequence in Dolphin Dance (from the Soldier > soundtrack) made me smile and then this strange mix of sampled 12-string > guitar and strings which seem to float in the background. The samples are > just breathtaking, Franke´s Emulator and Edgar´s guitar creates a very > special sound. I believe Schmoelling and Franke wasn´t too happy about > guitars. Hate to say it, but I think that this is a bit of revisionism being propagated by Edgar. I can understand Chris not liking guitars maybe, but if Schmoelling dislikes them so much, why does he emulate their sounds on so many of his solo albums? Gabe From: Gabe Yedid Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 427 On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 tweibre361@a... wrote: > From: tweibre361@a... > > In a message dated 3/20/00 17:26:49 Eastern Standard Time, > tadream@o... writes: > > << No matter how you turn it, it will allways be illegal to tape >> > > incorrect....taping off the radio is perfectly legimate, as are recordings > made of public performances... > > tom w > > np: studio 1 compilation Not like I've paid a whole lot of attention to this--I just gloss over these posts and look at what I think is important--but it definitely seems to me that there are two distinct schools of thought on this issue, and that they more or less follow a trans-Atlantic divide. The Europeans seem to take one particular viewpoint (it's *not* legal) while the North Americans seem to be doing their best to justify why it is. Now, I'm actually NOT going to go in to what kind of socio-legal-economic factors might be responsible for this, except to ask: does copyright law in most European countries give more control to the artist, in general? If it does, then is this the root of Edgar's attitude towards fan taping and bootlegging--i.e. is he simply responding in a manner consistent with what HE KNOWS to be the law where he lives? Gabe From: 'Patrik .' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 9:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Patrik wrote: I believe Schmoelling and Franke wasn´t too happy about guitars. And Gabe answered: Hate to say it, but I think that this is a bit of revisionism being propagated by Edgar. I can understand Chris not liking guitars maybe, but if Schmoelling dislikes them so much, why does he emulate their sounds on so many of his solo albums? Gabe Good question, but I´ve read somewhere that they (SFF) disagread on Edgar´s use of electric guitar. You can´t find it on Exit, nor Logos and not on Hyberborea or Legend. Just a thought... Patrik ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21328 D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] Marcel Engels Tue 3/21/2000 3 KB 21338 Re: 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' Gabe Yedid Wed 3/22/2000 3 KB From: 'kayleigh' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:26 pm Subject: Trading stuff A lot of you are jumping on the bandwagon to condemn fan taping. Hey there all. Wanted to post a quick note about this fan trading thing before for some reason it dries up and goes away (GRIN). I saw this posted on the list the last day or so (I'm not online as much as before, so not sure exactly when it was put online) I find that highly ironic considering some of you are HUGE traders. This holier than thou crap sticks in my gullet. If you have any boots in your collection, you really shouldn't be opening your mouth about how wrong it is. This is especially true when you are one of 'THE' sources to go to for boots. Gee, who would this be? AND on that note, I don't know who this person is being spoken about, as with myself, I have openly asked for live recordings for my OWN personal use. I am not selling/making money on this stuff, and in fact most times when I get this material from people, I don't trade much to get it (I WOULD Like to get more if anyone is interested), but with trading and bootlegs and stuff, I have yet to see a Tangerine Dream Cd anywhere in the US that is a 'bootleg' where on the other hand, I see The Artist (PRince) Pearl Jam, Metallica, the Dead (can't imagine why anyone would PAY for the Dead stuff considering there are about 3 zillion of the shows out and about anyhow), but others like that are nearly professional quality, the full color artwork, etc. THAT to me is where the artists have had a problem. BUT with TD? Why? I've never seen anyone selling this stuff. Ok, onto the note that was posted to the list. Whoever posted it is RIGHT. I never take sides, but saw this on the Marillion/Freaks list about two years ago. Myself, I was involved in a nasty spat, because people wanted me to stop trading, and I refused since it was for my PERSONAL use. what they were against was NOT me trading, but the fact I woud not bow down and listen to everything they wanted, and do things their way. Sorry, I'm not a puppett. BUT in reality, I won't take sides either way. Some people like the trading (like me), some don't. BUT honestly regardless of how I feel compared to how someone else feels, I will not condemn anyone for their feelings, and should anyone? Why not let everyone have their own opinion? EVEN IF someone doesn't like the trading, unless the BAND prosecutes me, honestly I'd continue doing it. BUT that doesn't mean I will insult someone that thinks trading is wrong. They are entitled to their own opinion. Just thought I'd pop that in there. I've really enjoyed this list, and have had a great time reading what is on here, AND honestly the 'Flame wars' that I have seen here are NOTHING compared to some of the nastiness and uglyness that I've seen on other lists. Everyone here seems to be friendly, and especially MOST HELPFUL with the questions I've asked (That are probably kinda stupid considering mostly everyone on this list seems to know EVERYTHING about the band) THANKS for everyone who's helped out, and can't we all be friends? :) dan Kayleigh's Playhouse! http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! ICQ#1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 - Firetalk# 581211 Yahoo Pager: kayleigh_tootiehoot From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:45 pm Subject: D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] > From: 'Patrik .' > > Good question, but I´ve read somewhere that they (SFF) disagread > on Edgar´s > use of electric guitar. You can´t find it on Exit, nor Logos and not on > Hyberborea or Legend. Just a thought... I always like the 'added' (doesn't sound to me it's added :-)) guitar in TD's music. And a lot of solos of Johannes are indeed guitaresque. Short review about Underwater Sunlight: I really like this album. Both Song of (or is it from?) the Whale are excellent. They are both exciting tracks which has good build-ups and are very powerful. The piano, played by Haslinger, is excellent (on this and Tyger). This record is, for me, evidence that you can make a very good album with digital gear (and a little bit analog). Side 2 (I didn't had a side 2 because it was a CD for me) is, for me, not so good as side 1 except for Dolphin Dance which is very good. The tracks are a bit directionless. Marcel Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels Email :fsp@w... From: Jared White Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists > From: Gabe Yedid > > On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Rudy Russo wrote: > > > From: Rudy Russo > > > > > o artofvision -- the list for fans of latter-day > > > (late 80s-to-Y2K) TD > > > > Bleah. Why doesn't somebody form a list for discussion > > of the Froese/Haslinger line-up, and the coupl'a > > albums they did together? That oughta generate a lotta > > posts. > > This is *precisely* the attitude that led to the formation of the > artofvision list. Those who post there think that there *is* something > to discuss concerning albums after Haslinger's departure. Thanks for your support, Gabe, but actually Rudy's in luck. Art of Vision covers TD's career from *1988* onwards, so Optical Race, Lily on the Beach, and (of course) Melrose are all perfectly acceptable candidates for discussion. In fact, some of the 'post-Franke' top ten TD track lists posted to the Art of Vision list lately have included tracks from those albums. If you like the Froese/Haslinger line-up, this list will definitely interest you! Thanks, take care, Jared From: 'Erik Sanborn' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:51 pm Subject: Re: Fan Taping >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:12:37 +0100 >From: 'TDI - Martin K.' ... >Face it: people are not basically good. Ah! The philosophical reason. Hmmm... I'm not sure I agree. Philosophical question: People are basically: A. good B. bad/evil The correct answer is: C. stupid :) I now return you to our little flamefest that we like to call a mailing list. ;-) From: Jared White Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:57 pm Subject: D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] Hi, folks, I regret to say I don't have the album 'Underwater Sunlight'. However, I've heard Ride on a Ray, Scuba Scuba, and Underwater Twilight on the Best of the Blue Years compilation, and I've heard the version of Dolphin Dance on Valentine Wheels. So, I'm only missing out on Parts 1 & 2 of Song of the Whale. Let me just say that Ride on a Ray and Dolphin Dance are two of the most beautiful and peaceful pieces of music I've ever heard come from the minds of Tangerine Dream. Those drums on Dolphin Dance are ethereal and hypnotic, and that twangy Haslinger-era sound featured most on Underwater Sunlight (I guess) is a sound I'd almost die for. I've managed to come up with something somewhat like it on my Korg N1r, but it still isn't the same! Next to TD's classic Moog basses, that twangy sound is one of my favorite TD sounds of all time. This may sound like heresy to some of you, but a certain section of Astrophobia on Mars Polaris sounds very much like a space version of Dolphin Dance. (Martian Dance??) Right after the first 'breakbeat' part of Astrophobia, there's a short interlude and mood change, and then that same style of hypnotic drumming comes in with a simple ethereal tune in the background. I think I first noticed it whilst listening to the sound clip of Astrophobia on TDI's site before MP came out, and I was very impressed. See, TD hasn't lost it yet! (OK, OK, let's not get into that again....) Anyway, I love what I've heard of Underwater Sunlight, and I'm very anxious to get Tyger, as I've only heard 21st Century common man (part 2) on the Best of the Blue Years compilation, and it sounds *very* different! Regards, Jared Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21351 D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] izyrp@o... Wed 3/22/2000 3 KB From: 'Greg' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 8:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] > From: Jared White > Wow! I was wondering the same thing.. but maybe in a different area. There's a deep bass sequence in that section of Astrophobia at 4:20, it sounds like it was taken from Rubycon Pt. 2! You can almost hear that static-like water skimming sound too.. I also like at 6:20, a robotic like voice seems to exclaim 'I don't think so!' Greg H. > This may sound like heresy to some of you, but a certain section of > Astrophobia on Mars Polaris sounds very much like a space version of Dolphin > Dance. (Martian Dance??) Right after the first 'breakbeat' part of > Astrophobia, there's a short interlude and mood change, and then that same > style of hypnotic drumming comes in with a simple ethereal tune in the > background. I think I first noticed it whilst listening to the sound clip of > Astrophobia on TDI's site before MP came out, and I was very impressed. See, > TD hasn't lost it yet! (OK, OK, let's not get into that again....) > > Regards, > > Jared Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21411 Re: D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] Bennett Cookson Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB From: 'Jens Peschke' Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 11:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists > From: Gabe Yedid > This is *precisely* the attitude that led to the formation of the > artofvision list. Not quite. People haven't concentrated on the positive side of things enough, those who are into TD (of any given time or all) don't wanna read unfiltered moanings. All IMHO of course. --- general comments, Gabe isn't meant ---- 'If you have to say something positive and/or constructive do so, if not keep your mouth sealed or at least explain your personal point of view' is what we should stick with. I for one ignore some of those who don't stick with it. I mean what postings do you like to read, what is the reason for being here ? Fun, methinks. No ? [Gabe] >Those who post there think that there *is* something > to discuss concerning albums after Haslinger's departure. I thought this is the list of discussing all TD lineups, no ? Anyway, it doesn't matter really as the negative waves (?) in here are just a tad too high for my liking recently, really. Bye Jens Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21337 Re: Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Gabe Yedid Wed 3/22/2000 5 KB From: Grant M Somerville Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 11:06 pm Subject: Bonnet Vomit!! Gabe Yedid wrote: > From: Gabe Yedid > > On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Heiko Heerssen wrote: > > > From Karel Von Appel at Sat, 18/Mar/00 00:50: > > I'm selling my car. Audi A4, looks new, it is (1998). Reason? For you > > fans, a deal: Jerome threw up on the hood after too much beer. > > Never washed it since then. Who could dream of a more personnal relic. > > Own something that was part of Jerome! Contact me > > please... > > Woo! I had no idea he was still such a 'wild man'! > ;-) > (OTOH, if he binges often, it can't be too good for his skills...) > > cheers, > > Gabe > Dream mixes 3...Exit (the throw-up mix) You never know ; ) Kind Regards, Grant. Grant M Somerville Glasgow, Scotland. Looking for Live Music Recordings...try http://freespace.virgin.net/grant.somerville/2index.html SOUNDCHECK [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: aoutland@a... Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 1:36 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Grab it before it's too late! In a message dated 03/20/2000 8:50:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, heiko.heerssen@h... writes: << Here is the ULTIMATE collectors' item to all you TD fans out there! ~LOL~ >> Ho ho ho. I'll bid a dollar! 8-) Dell From: aoutland@a... Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 1:43 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Fan taping / bootlegging In a message dated 03/20/2000 9:21:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, kearley@r... writes: << But Fan Taping/Trading is not much better, because it lessens the control an Artist has over his/her work. >> I can understand that an artist would be worried about being known for the quality of his work, and then be upset about having a second rate hissy tape of an old concert being bandied about by the fans. However, isn't it a point of pride also to know that your fans will go to any lengths to get every note you've ever played? And if that artist then released that concert in better quality, wouldn't those same fans fall all over themselves to get that officially released product? I know I would. 8-) Dell From: Gabe Yedid Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 3:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Jens Peschke wrote: > From: 'Jens Peschke' > > > From: Gabe Yedid > > > This is *precisely* the attitude that led to the formation of the > > artofvision list. > > Not quite. People haven't concentrated on the positive side of things > enough, > those who are into TD (of any given time or all) don't wanna > read unfiltered moanings. All IMHO of course. That depends entirely on your point of view of what's positive. For certain folks who are/were here, there isn't anything about the music to comment positively on anymore. The ones who tend to be more vociferously negative about it end up dominating the discussions, which creates a bad atmosphere for those of us who appreciate at least some of what we hear in 'modern' TD. > --- general comments, Gabe isn't meant ---- huh???? I'm not meant...for/to see/to hear/to do what, exactly? > 'If you have to say something positive and/or constructive do so, > if not keep your mouth sealed or at least explain your personal point of > view' is > what we should stick with. I for one ignore some of those who don't > stick with it. > I mean what postings do you like to read, what is the reason for being here > ? Among other things, apparently, to be told that I don't have as much right to my opinion on modern TD because I didn't 'grow up' with the band's music. > Fun, methinks. No ? Why can't a bit of fun be part of it, eh? It certainly has been a lot LESS fun over the past 2-3 weeks. > [Gabe] > >Those who post there think that there *is* something > > to discuss concerning albums after Haslinger's departure. > > I thought this is the list of discussing all TD lineups, no ? Sure, I suppose there's no problem there, right Jared? The point was to create a place where 'post-Franke' TD music could be discussed in a less negative climate than that which has tended to predominate on just about every other TD-related list, going all the way back to the old UWP list. (Yes, I have been around that long) But no, it doesn't exclude discussion of music from other eras of TD's history. And the tone of the above response was meant to be as blunt as the (IMO) rather obvious implication that any TD album after _Lily_ has nothing which merits (positive) discussion. The example proving the rule, as it were, justifying the desire (if not the need) for artofvision. > Anyway, it doesn't matter really as the negative waves (?) > in here are just a tad too high for my liking recently, really. Look, they're going to crop up every now and then, I don't think there's any getting away from it. This can't be a love-in ALL the time, and there's going to be dissent of varying degrees at one time or another, which is inevitable when differing opinions clash. I do think it's worth pointing out, though, that when things DO go sour, they tend to get rather nasty and personal in astonishingly short order. Just why is that, anyway? (I have my private theories on this...) > Bye that's not a final bye, is it? > Jens cheers, Gabe From: Gabe Yedid Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 3:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] 'D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight]' On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Patrik . wrote: > From: 'Patrik .' > > > Good question, but I´ve read somewhere that they (SFF) disagread on Edgar´s > use of electric guitar. You can´t find it on Exit, nor Logos and not on > Hyberborea or Legend. Just a thought... > > Patrik This is true. Ed's guitar makes appearances mostly on soundtracks from this time (most notably _Firestarter_, _Heartbreakers_, and, dare I say it, _The Keep_) and hardly ever on the studio albums (with the possible exception of _White Eagle_). He *did* play it at concerts during this time, but seemed to take a real break from it from around the middle of 1982 to sometime in 1984. As another thought for your thought: was the kind of music they were doing at this time really appropriate for electric guitar, coming as it did after a fairly guitar-heavy period (the 1980/81 'Thief' tour)? Gabe From: Steven Feldman Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 7:19 am Subject: Of Ex-Tangerine Dream and Ex-Kraftwerk Fandom >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:45:22 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Re: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists >To: Tangerine Dream mailing list >From: Gabe Yedid > >> From: Rudy Russo >> >> > From Steven Feldman >> > MAJOR E-MUSIC FAVES: >> > Tangerine Dream, Nightcrawlers, Robert Carty, >> > Moroder -- *not* Kraftwerk! >> >> Whatcha got against Kraftwerk??? They're the know-nothing name-dropper's 70's e-music band of choice. So many rock critics have fallen prostrated themselves before Kraftwerk for no other reason than that they were disco influences who never got a hit of any importance ('Autobahn' and 'The Model' didn't chart for shit), while the biggest e-music influence on disco charted way too highly and way too often for the nitcrits to acknowledge as having artistic (as opposed to economic) merit. Who is this influence? Giorgio Moroder. >Not everybody likes Kraftwerk, for whatever reason(s), regardless of >what their influence on music may have been. [. . .] Back in the late 1970's, Kraftwerk and Giorgio Moroder were more often than not mentioned in the same breath, much like David Bowie and Roxy Music was (or Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze are), but *now*, disco is so out of favor historically in the rock press context that folks have invented terms like 'trance' to re-name it, or sweep it under the rug, as it were. Back in the day, Moroder would tell you that he was in the business of making Dance Music, if you asked him, whereas Kraftwerk had/has all manner of agendas and theories with which to fill critics' heads when the music itself just wasn't good enough to merit serious investigation. Moroder has had *so* big an influence on pop music that few people can separate out what is Moroder from what is pop-music-minus-Moroder anymore! It's like trying to separate the Velvet Underground or Nirvana from Alternate Rock. But Krafwerk? What did they ever do that Moroder didn't do -- except not sell records? Like most of the people on the Electronic Music mailing list, who are disgruntled ex-Tangerine Dream fans who wish the last decade never took place, I am a disgruntled ex-Kraftwerk fan who gave up on them in 1986 when they put out that piece of shit ELECTRIC CAFE (and what have they done of any merit since, besides 'Tour de France'?). I loved RALF AND FLORIAN, RADIOACTIVITY, MAN-MACHINE and COMPUTER WORLD, but found TRANS-EUROPE EXPRESS overlong, repetitive and tiresome (and still do) -- and this is coming from an Eno fan who became a space music fan! And when it comes to 'live' performances being a sham, Kraftwerk was Milli Vanilli before Milli Vannilli was Milli Vannilli! They pre- dated Edgar by 20 years -- and that's a claim to imfamy that no one should covet! -- Steven Feldman - - - - - - - ar402004@b... [ElectronicMusic@o..., 6/27/99] said: 'Live, Tangerine Dream is the electronic equivalent of Millie Vanilli.' DaNo [ElectronicMusic@o..., 6/27/99] rejoined: 'Finally, someone who puts it into perspective no one can deny.' Ho ho. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21342 do we all like the same music???? Rainer Rutka Wed 3/22/2000 4 KB From: 'Pergamon' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 8:38 am Subject: Sv: [tadream] Digest Number 427 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 427 > From: tweibre361@a... > > In a message dated 3/20/00 17:26:49 Eastern Standard Time, > tadream@o... writes: > > << No matter how you turn it, it will allways be illegal to tape >> > > incorrect....taping off the radio is perfectly legimate, as are recordings > made of public performances... > > tom w Yes radiotaping for private use, but not if you distribute it. Public performances, yes if you get the permission from the artist(s), but not for distribution. Jan From: 'Pergamon' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 8:42 am Subject: Sv: [tadream] fan taping / bootlegs / compilations I couldn't agree more =) Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Folkvord To: Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 12:39 AM Subject: SV: [tadream] fan taping / bootlegs / compilations > From: 'Glenn Folkvord' > > >From: 'Jan Aunsholt' > > >The artist do not deny us anything, it is their > >god giving right to choose what us fans should have access to or not. > > True, but sometimes it isnt even the artist that denies or OK's bootlegs. Sometimes the artists just doesnt care at all, but the record company and the publisher can be the ones who fight bootlegging, and they have all the right to do so. So it doesnt matter if the band accepts bootlegs/tapes or not, the law is clear! Pretty much you're allowed to tape from radio and TV or make tapes from official CDs you already own for playing in your car or walkman, but other than that, fan recordings are illegal. If the artist says bootlegs are OK, it doesnt matter - still illegal. It is not for the artist/band to decide. > > all the best, > glenn > > JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart > Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/953656741/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: Rainer Rutka Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 11:07 am Subject: do we all like the same music???? On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Steven Feldman wrote: > From: Steven Feldman > ... > and this is coming from an Eno fan who became a space music fan! Hi Steven and you all! Well, I'm a big ENO-Fan, too and try to collect everything I can get. 'Another Green World' is my all-time favourite record no 2! Definitely a disk I would like to take to an lonely island. (no. 1 is 'Sarabande' by Jon Lord, no. 3 is 'Force Majeure'). This brings me to a point I allways wanted to ask some of you guys onto the list: Do you like TD only? Or do we all like the same kind of music? (I think our musical taste is very similar!). I don't want to start a new discussion, But it can be interesting (IMO) to know a little bit more by each other. For everybody's who wants to know, here's my ALL-TIME top 20: (if not, delete the message now!) 1) Sarabande, Jon Lord (my ALL-TIME record) 2) Another Green World, Brian Eno (soooooooo gooooooood) 3) Force Majeure, ? ('ups-foregot the name of the band') 4) The Kick Inside, Kate Bush 5) Venus And Mars, Wings 6) X, Klaus Schulze 7) Double Live Gonzo, Ted Nugent (good for washing dishes) 8) Secret Story, Pat Metheny 9) Le Parc, ? ('hmmm what was the name of the band....?') 10) Tubular Bells 2, Mike Oldfield (TB2 not TB1) 11) Koeln Concert, Keith Jarrett 12) Decade, Neil Young 13) Starpeace, Yoko Ono (YES, I like Yoko!) 14) Selling England by the Pound, Genesis 15) No Sleep 'til Hammersmith, Motoerhead (hear it while driving!) 16) North Star, Philip Glass 17) Incantations, Mike Oldfield (LP-version) 18) Ages, Edgar Froese 19) Direct, Vangelis 20) Mars Polaris, TD (oh, I remember the name!) and many more... These are my selections (today) for the so-called lonely island. I think I listened to all this records more than 100 times / each. Rainer rainer@k... --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: tweibre361@a... Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 430 In a message dated 3/22/00 3:43:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, tadream@o... writes: << Yes radiotaping for private use, but not if you distribute it. Public performances, yes if you get the permission from the artist(s), but not for distribution. >> by public performance i meant a free performance in a public place which then enters the public domain...no permission required... tom w np: kraftwerk - expo 2000 From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:42 pm Subject: D:Live [Fan taping]?? And now for something completely different.... FAN TAPING: is it illegal or not? ok, a lame joke ;-) But with all this controversial discussions (or 'flame wars'...since I joined the list I learned such an amount of new English words it's incredible ;-) going on at the moment I wonder what awaits us next week when the (in)famous 'Tyger' is the subject on the weekly discussion schedule?! Heiko from cloudy Hamburg From: 'Phil White' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 4:44 pm Subject: Wolfgang Duren Query Sorry to be slightly offlist but must be the place to ask......... I have in my EM collection a vinyl album called 'Eyeless Dreams' by Wolfgang Duren (WPL 5768) It is VERY T.Dream in style and content. Can anyone enlighten me as to his actual role with TD as I have variously been told 'roadie' or possibly synth programmer ? Will the real bringer of truth please stand up ? Thanks in anticipation Phil White [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Jared White Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 4:34 pm Subject: D:Studio [Hyperborea] Hi, folks, OK, so I'm several weeks late. I never got around to posting anything about Hyperborea, but now with the current lull in, ah, really inspiring discussions, I figure I'd say something. I just got Hyperborea recently, and I've only listened to it once all the way through, with selected other parts a few times. I'd heard Cinnamon Road on the Dream Sequence compilation many times (sorry, folks, I love that piece!), so it was nice to hear it in relation to the rest of the album. And it's quite a rest of the album! Hyperborea begins with a very a-typical TD composition. Bright, exotic timbres and strange, floating melodies predominate throughout the whole relatively short track. In a way, it sounds almost like a pre-cursor to the some of the more exotic portions of Optical Race. (Or even Le Parc? I don't know because I don't have that album, only a few tracks like Zen Garden on the Best of the Blue Years compilation.) Interesting track, but unfortunately, somewhat unmemorable, like most of the tracks on Exit (uh, oh, don't answer that!). After 'jamming' for several minutes, it all starts to sound the same.... Which brings us now to the title track, Hyperborea. I really can't tell you HOW MUCH I LOVE THIS PIECE! It certainly has one of the most sublime and haunting melodies of the Schmoelling period, and possibly still reigns supreme when you stretch your criteria by several more years in either direction. The bizarre tonalities (at least bizarre compared to other TD work from that general timeframe) and otherworldly synthesizer sounds (some digital, maybe?) combine to form a powerful echo of the beautiful yet mysterious kingdom of Hyperborea. A definite highlight of the album, and makes it one of the best products of TD's career when Schmoelling was part of the band. Cinnamon Road: corny? perhaps. Fun? You betcha! I've enjoyed and appreciated this piece for a long time. It's one of the better 'short tracks' from TD at that time. Certainly blows away any of the short tracks of Exit (uh, oh, again!), and it's definitely better than the silly pop/new wave track Midnight in Tula on White Eagle. Many interesting and 'different' sequences interweave on this piece to form almost a classical-like counterpoint that makes you wish the track went on longer! And now the last track, Sphinx Lightning. You know, I have to admit I don't remember the slightest thing from that track. I'd have to go listen to it, but I'm afraid I'm pressed for time at the moment. I remember enjoying it, though.... So let's just say the first three tracks, with the middle two being the real highlights, make this a classic and enjoyable album that was a fitting swan song for the Virgin Years. We love you, Hyperborea! NOW, let the Underwater Sunlight reviews come in! Come on, you can do it! You know how! :) Regards, Jared Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 24079 D:Studio [Hyperborea] Gustavo Jobim Sat 9/23/2000 2 KB 24083 Re: D:Studio [Hyperborea] spawnofcthulhu@w... Sun 9/24/2000 3 KB From: 'cinemafan' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 7:02 pm Subject: Moroder and me....... I agree with the comment on Moroder and his influence on music. It has alway bothered me how many musicians always act like others musicians never influence them . The only exception may be comments on the Beatles , or early out of reach R and B artists like .....Cat Scratch Stevens, or ole Bonsey Malone ( box sets out on Rhino records soon-I wonder if Keith and Mick are still buying them?) As far as TD, I never hear them say how they reacted to Jarre or Moroder, or how John Carpenter feels influenced by TD etc. etc. It's as if they think the fans of this electronic style don't listen to all the different artist's out there. In fact on the current Jarre album Metamorphoses track 10 Give Me A Sign , has such a 'Midnight Express' riff going through it, I can't believe Giorgio's name isn't on the credit's. I mean you can'y get any more 'influenced' than that. Let's give em his due already, I love Moroder. Anyway, as far as Boots go- I love em, I trade em, I lost many of em. Do I want to rebuild? Hell yes, but I don't want to make a killing, except for the Keep -I have gotten paid for that one. But on the other hand I recompiled all the tracks I could find from Mr. Feldon's Keep lists and the time and effort was for those who wanted something from the film. But still I only sold one or two, and those were for people I TRADED with, and not meant to make a helacious killing of a profit. Anywoo- That's my two cents, I could be wrong, Chris Chouinard NP-Wolfen -James Horner From: Jared White Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 4:08 pm Subject: D:Error [Too Many Threads] Hi, The problem here isn't flame wars, folks. I have yet to see anything really that shocking. The problem is there are too many little petty discussions going on at once. Are we discussing fan tapes? (Yes, unfortunately, so let's stop!) Are we discussing mailing lists? (Several different mailing lists out there, subscribe to the ones you like, so forget about it.) Are we discussing Underwater Sunlight? (Actually, no, which is a shame!) Are we discussing top 20 albums of all time? (Let's not get into that right now, please!) Are we discussing Brian Eno & Kraftwerk? Are we discussing Edgar's use of guitar in the 'mid-Schmoelling' years? (well, that's interesting at least....) Let's get back on track, OK? IMHO, most of the posts here the past couple of weeks should really have had OT in their subjects. I don't see any OTs around, so has this whole list become OT and nobody noticed? To quote Logos: 'chke chke chke Wake Up!' ;) Regards, Jared From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 3:54 pm Subject: Losing Mars Polaris Here's a link to an article about why the Mars Lander was lost. It appears the TD album was the only good thing to come out of the whole project... http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_686000/686224.stm - jim From: 'teiwaz _' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 5:48 pm Subject: bootlegs, fan tapes and profiteering For profit--what it means Seems people on this list take a dim view of bootleggers because they profit from the artist's work without the artist being paid. While this is true, this list seems to have taken a narrow definition of what 'profit' means. When you get a fantape from a concert you 'profit' from it--perhaps not monetarily (the narrow view), but from the joy it brings. So gimme a break when you say that fan taping is not for 'profit' and therefore it's OK or not as bad as bootlegging or something. As for TD and whether they like/condone fan taping. How many folks remember the tangerine dream international fan club? Do you remember the issue that showed a photo of a tape collection one fan who had died had? I mean TD may or may not condone taping, but the implication was that this fan was fan-atical--he had what looked like several hundred hours of TD tapes. The tapes covered the better portion of one wall. Who got those tapes anyway? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: izyrp@o... Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 7:19 pm Subject: D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] This is one of my fave TD albums, so here I go: What I love about : ~Song of the whale part 1: from dawn... : Mesmerizing sequencer with melody played by 'sad female voice'-like keysound above it. After a while guitar joins in and later this perfect orchestral mighty riff, which I love so much, follows, closing the whole sequence. Any time after I've heard that riff it keeps on haunting me (positively) for 2 or 3 days.Generates great feeling. This piece means a lot to me. Just a little universe. ~Song of the whale part two:to dusk...: Much less pathetic, release of tension, afterwards a rhythmical passage follows with something I enjoy very much about this line up:chords played by one musician with 'responding' melody played by another. Tension comes in and than again guitar solo with everything calming down. Ascension again, with guitar soloing before the end.Superb done. ~Dolphin dance: I enjoy this incarnation of TD still, tight dance melody with grooving rhythm base from the time before some simpler rhythms had slipped TD's collective mind for some time.(NOT till today). ~Ride on the ray: Simple, but nice and convincing. ~Scuba scuba: Reminds me somehow of Froese's 'Stuntman' (which I love) with bossa-nova like rhythm.I believe this piece being mostly if not entirely Froese's. ~Underwater sunlight To me the weakest part of the album. Never liked the Simmons drums. Without them 'Flashpoint' would have been much better, too! 'It's still much better to listen to the sound of one hand clapping, than to Simmon's electronic drums', hehe. (me, on zen question). Zbig From: Antonio Nunes Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 7:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D:Error [Too Many Threads] Jared White wrote: > > Let's get back on track, OK? IMHO, most of the posts here the past > couple of weeks should really have had OT in their subjects. I don't > see any OTs around, so has this whole list become OT and > nobody noticed? No offense Jared, but I think you are the moderator of artofvision, not tadream. So please let the moderators of *this* list say what is off topic and what is not. And BTW, I think the moderators of this list have been doing a perfect job. Antonio Nunes Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21354 Re: D:Error [Too Many Threads] joe shoults Wed 3/22/2000 2 KB 21356 Re: D:Error [Too Many Threads] Jared White Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 7:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] MS Encarta TD-entry Rainer Rutka wrote: > > I added the Tangerine Dream entry form the german Encarta CD-ROM by > Microsoft onto my TD internet site. Start it and you'll see. > Just a question: How's about the US- or the English version (or italian, > shwedish, portugese........)? Is the TD entry in all this CDROMS or > only in the german version? I have the US version of Encarta'95 but I couldn't find any reference to Tangerine Dream in it. But I did find a short article about TD in another Microsoft CD-ROM called CINEMANIA'95. This is the text: ' Tangerine Dream Biography from Baseline's Encyclopedia of Film Seminal synthesizer ensemble formed in psychedelic 1967, who achieved cult followings in Europe, Japan and the US with a succession of ethereal, electronically driven albums in the 1970s. Their atmospheric conjurings made them ideal composers for film. Beginning with William Friedkin's SORCERER (1977), Tangerine Dream has contributed either scores or songs to such notable features as Michael Mann's THIEF (1981), Antonioni's IDENTIFICATION OF A WOMAN (1982), Andrei Konchalovski's SHY PEOPLE (1987) and Kathryn Bigelow's NEAR DARK (1987). ' BTW, what TD music was used in 'Identification of a Woman'? Antonio Nunes Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21487 Solar Eclipse sended. Last copies available. Rainer Rutka Tue 3/28/2000 3 KB From: 'joe shoults' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 10:40 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D:Error [Too Many Threads] Jared's concerns are appreciated, as are anyone's that gives us feedback on or offline about their opinions of how things are going or should go. Thanks! ...and BTW, I think I fixed the graphics on http://tadream.net; let me knwo. joe > -----Original Message----- > No offense Jared, but I think you are the moderator of > artofvision, not > tadream. So please let the moderators of *this* list say what is off > topic and what is not. And BTW, I think the moderators of > this list have been doing a perfect job. > From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Wed Mar 22, 2000 10:38 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] Moroder and me....... >From: 'cinemafan' > >As far as TD, I never hear them say how they reacted to Jarre or Moroder, or >how John Carpenter feels influenced by TD etc. etc. It's as if they think >the fans of this electronic style don't listen to all the different artist's >out there. In fact on the current Jarre album Metamorphoses track 10 Give Me >A Sign , has such a 'Midnight Express' riff going through it, I can't >believe Giorgio's name isn't on the credit's. I mean you can'y get any more >'influenced' than that. Give me a Sign is deliberately made in a 80s synth pop style and Jarre has earlier (not related to Metamorphoses) stated that Moroder is a definite influence to him. But then again Jarre admits to be influenced by all sorts of musicians/bands, except other electronic bands. I have never seen him admitting to like TD or Vangelis or Kraftwerk, altho he do listen to them. all the best, Glenn JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic From: Jared White Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 12:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] D:Error [Too Many Threads] > From: Antonio Nunes > > Jared White wrote: > > > > Let's get back on track, OK? IMHO, most of the posts here the past > > couple of weeks should really have had OT in their subjects. I don't > > see any OTs around, so has this whole list become OT and > > nobody noticed? > > > No offense Jared, but I think you are the moderator of artofvision, not > tadream. So please let the moderators of *this* list say what is off > topic and what is not. And BTW, I think the moderators of this list have > been doing a perfect job. The moderators of this list have been doing an excellent job. When did I say they didn't? And, actually, the moderators of thist list *have* said what is on topic and what is not. The Tadream page at ONElist says, and I quote: 'tadream@o... is a discussion list dedicated to topics on and surrounding the musical group Tangerine Dream.' 'Nuff said. :) All the best, Jared From: 'Steven ' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 12:53 am Subject: THE KEEP IS MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My Moral Dilemma? OK, Here we go, A friend who I met on the list (who is longer here of course ;) Found a copy of the Blue Moon version of The Keep, he did not like it, so he sent it to me as a gift (3 years, I have been searching!!!). However, it is one of those so-called boots, is it not? The music is pretty good, but not super amazing! The thing is, I never would have really 'owned it' if it was not a 'boot' correct? I am very HAPPY I have it though!!!!! Some time ago, he gifted me with a tape copy of his CD-R version of EO. Let me tell you, If I had never ever heard at least a few of the tangentized Edgar Solo Songs, MY LIFE WOULD NOT BE COMPLETE! I am just a poor helpless fan, who is at the mercy of his passion for music, I have never 'paid' for it... (THAT TO!;) But am seriously considering, just to have 'something' on CD, What am I supposed to do? Just wondering aloud. Oh yeah, I do not want to buy a 'record player' I live in the 'aughts'. LOL I feel so good that I have The Keep though!!!!!!! Oh No, I have started & continued a thread! JK >> And BTW, I think the moderators of >> this list have been doing a perfect job. Hey Joe? Is there like a Onelist Award for 'Best Moderator'? Cause you sure deserve it! :) siberkat Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21358 Re: THE KEEP IS MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My Moral Sean Montgomery Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB From: Sean Montgomery Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 12:53 am Subject: Re: [tadream] THE KEEP IS MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My Moral Dilemma? Be careful about making a posting titled 'The Keep is mine!'....you're liable to freak out Steve Feldman. ;-) SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Ken Mitchell' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 8:07 am Subject: Fan Taping Fan Taping - this is not boring me at all, although I must admit I will be relieved to get back to all those retrospective album reviews ;) Look fan taping has been around for at least 38 years and possibly longer. It ain't going away anytime soon. You can debate the morals of it from here to when the cows come home it doesn't matter - just like prostitution it will always be around. Personally I am very glad people tape concerts - I am a great Jimi Hendrix fan. Every time he played live he played something unique. His idiot management rarely taped him on stage so we Hendrix fans have to content ourselves with dodgly old recordings. I'd rather that than nothing - imagine all that music that would otherwise be lost forever. Similarly Tangerine Dream concerts in the 70's were unique - I don't know if Edgar taped them all but I reckon I will be getting my letter from the Queen before many of them see the official light of day. So we are back to relying on those people who made the effort to tape. So hat's off to you all tapers out there - sometimes it's the fans who recognise genius first. So what can the artists do about it ? Well how about taking charge ? Check out the official home pages of the mighty Primus where you can download MPEG's of fan tapes and even fan videos. They encourage you to send in your stuff and they put the best of it out on their website. Free. So come on stop trying to be King Canute's and let's get back to those *really* fascinating retro album reviews. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21363 What can the artist do? Rainer Rutka Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB 21378 Re: What can the artist do? Radu Velicescu Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB From: Mario Pacheco Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 7:43 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Wolfgang Duren Query I heard that at one point he was a sound engineer of the group. --- Phil White wrote: > > Sorry to be slightly offlist but must be the place > to ask......... > I have in my EM collection a vinyl album called > 'Eyeless Dreams' > by Wolfgang Duren (WPL 5768) > It is VERY T.Dream in style and content. > Can anyone enlighten me as to his actual role with > TD as I have > variously been told 'roadie' or possibly synth > programmer ? > > Will the real bringer of truth please stand up ? > Thanks in anticipation > > Phil White > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 8:49 am Subject: Re : [tadream] Of Ex-Tangerine Dream and Ex-Kraftwerk Fandom >From: Steven Feldman >>> Whatcha got against Kraftwerk??? > > They're the know-nothing name-dropper's 70's e-music band of choice. >So many rock critics have fallen prostrated themselves before Kraftwerk >for no other reason than that they were disco influences who never got a >hit of any importance ('Autobahn' and 'The Model' didn't chart for shit), Not true, 'the Model' reached number one in England... Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21362 Re: Of Ex-Tangerine Dream and Ex-Kraftwerk Fando craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB 21369 Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story Steven Feldman Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB 21371 Voices in the Dune WANTED! Rainer Rutka Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB 21395 Re: Voices in the Dune WANTED! Andrew Rozsa Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21407 Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21419 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Richard Ford Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21432 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB 21479 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB 21372 Re: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of S craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/23/2000 5 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 8:50 am Subject: Re: Re : [tadream] Of Ex-Tangerine Dream and Ex-Kraftwerk Fandom >From: 'Paul Fellows' > > > >>From: Steven Feldman > >>>> Whatcha got against Kraftwerk??? >> >> They're the know-nothing name-dropper's 70's e-music band of choice. >>So many rock critics have fallen prostrated themselves before Kraftwerk >>for no other reason than that they were disco influences who never got a >>hit of any importance ('Autobahn' and 'The Model' didn't chart for shit), > >Not true, 'the Model' reached number one in England... I believe it was Number One across the whole of the United Kingdom! [Sorry, pet hate alert!] NP : Sohoman -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... Senior Software Engineer 01383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21369 Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story Steven Feldman Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB 21371 Voices in the Dune WANTED! Rainer Rutka Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB 21395 Re: Voices in the Dune WANTED! Andrew Rozsa Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21407 Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21419 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Richard Ford Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21432 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB 21479 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB 21372 Re: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of S craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/23/2000 5 KB 21375 Re: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of ;-Peter ;-Prisekin aka ;-Dust Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 10:04 am Subject: What can the artist do? On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Ken Mitchell wrote: > From: 'Ken Mitchell' > So what can the artists do about it ? Well how about taking charge ? What the artists can do? What Klaus Schulze did, after the first bootlegs of Schulze saw the light of the world: Release a 50 cd-set with unreleased live concerts and studio- auttakes in perfect (more or less) quality, nice covers for a good and fair price! Who needs bad sounding bootlegs if you get it by official ways in better quality and much cheaper and WITHOUT OVERDUBS? 50 CD mostly 75-80 minutes with everything the heart of a fan can make booooommmmm ;-) And the artists get their money for it. This is only fair. I know there's a problem with the copyrights of the old virgin material. But, there's ever a chance to make up a deal. Let's see what we get during the next years from the TD vaults. A 50 CD box? That would be greatful! I know they taped most of the concerts. Just my opinion... Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21378 Re: What can the artist do? Radu Velicescu Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB From: 'Patrik .' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 2:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] What can the artist do? Rainer, I totally agree with you. There are so many many hours of good music just lying around. It´s a pity. Edgar also has tons of material from the Virgin-days with his solo contract. Release, release!! Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: horrod6 Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 11:04 am Subject: Re:Too many threads I *like* having a lot of threads. It makes the digest an interesting read. Maybe it's different for those of you who view them on the site? What I *don't* like is discourtesy. Surely it's possible to disagree with someone without casting doubt on their sanity, parentage and personal habits? Maybe that's just my Brit. reticence, my age or my female peace-maker stereotype. I take the point that compared to other sites the 'flame wars' on this site are pretty moderate. But are they necessary? Do they add to anyone's enjoyment? (Well yes, presumably, the senders' - but what about the other 300 odd subscribers?) Play nice, people. LnH Marion From: horrod6 Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 11:20 am Subject: Morality Ken Mitchell wrote: > > You can debate the morals of it from here to when the cows come home > it doesn't matter - just like prostitution it will always be around. > Ken, I'm not even going to say whether I do or don't 'approve' of fan taping (or prostitution) or not. But I *do* have a problem with your argument. Here's why: Substitute the word 'murder' for the word 'prostitution' in the above statement. The implication is that it's fine for us all to go out and commit murder, even if it's illegal, because 'it will always be around'. OK, fan taping is hardly in the same league as murder, but where do you draw the line between 'illegal but allowable' and 'illegal and totally unacceptable'? Don't ask me, I'm not a 100% law-abiding citizen myself, and I don't suppose many of us are. LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21389 Morality Ken Mitchell Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB 21420 Re: Morality twosheds Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21421 Re: Morality twosheds Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB From: horrod6 Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 11:46 am Subject: Re:do we all like the same music? Rainer Rutka wrote: >This brings me to a point I allways wanted to ask some of you guys onto >the list: Do you like TD only? Or do we all like the same kind of music? >(I think our musical taste is very similar!). I don't want to start a >new discussion, But it can be interesting (IMO) to know a little bit more >by each other. Rainer, _you_ might not want to start new discussion, but I do. I think this is a very interesting question and deserves some attention. If we know what list members' 'other' musical tastes are, apart from the one band that unites us, it helps us to see where they're coming from. So you think to yourself 'Of course, s/he also likes ENO, so I understand why s/he feels that way about this track'. And when someone recommends another EM band you will have a better idea of whether you will like it too if you know whether their other favourites are the same as, or different from, your own. Judging from your top 20, the quick answer to your question is 'No'! I'm not going to write a top 20, because it varies from hour to hour, depending on the weather, my state of mind, and what's going on in my life, so I don't want t fix it at one moment in time and then have it come back to haunt me later. But here are some of the things I like: Mozart - especially piano sonatas on a sunny day Bach - The Art of Fugue is a great aid to concentration when I'm working Vivaldi Vaughan Williams - particularly the Antartic Symphony on a cold day when I am tucked up in front of a roaring fire with a good book and a hot toddy Coleman Hawkins - for fun times Spike Jones - for really fun times Japanese drumming African drumming Qawwali music (not sure if I can spell it tho') Leftfield The Chieftains Enya JMJ The Doors Van Gelis Led Zeppelin Tomita Emerson Lake & Palmer Ry Cooder Senegalese and Malian styles like mbalax South American bands e.g. Rumillajta Early techno .... etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, as Yul Brynner would say. Hope this sparks off another thread to add to the fun! (Sorry Jared.) LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21368 Re: Re:do we all like the same music? craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB 21370 Re: Re:do we all like the same music? Rainer Rutka Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 12:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re:do we all like the same music? I used to think I had a varied listening experience, until I saw that posted by Rainer and Marion. I am firmly in the e-music camp, with almost 80% of my collection coming from the wide arena of e-music. Outside of it, I like a little rock/metal (like the music, can't keep up with the terminology) and some pop (okay, I admit it!). I do not own any classical, jazz, blues, reggae, opera, etc. My favourite artists are (in no particular order) TD - obviously Ultravox King's X Queensryche Aphex Twin Klaus Schulze Under the Dome but I have a large number of individual excellent records by various artists. Makes my brain hurt just thinking about it. -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... Senior Software Engineer 01383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steven Feldman Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 12:21 pm Subject: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:50:46 +0000 (GMT) said: >From: craig.cordrey@g... > >>From: 'Paul Fellows' >> >>>From: Steven Feldman >> >>>>> Whatcha got against Kraftwerk??? >>> >>> They're the know-nothing name-dropper's 70's e-music band of choice. >>>So many rock critics have fallen prostrated themselves before Kraftwerk >>>for no other reason than that they were disco influences who never got a >>>hit of any importance ('Autobahn' and 'The Model' didn't chart for shit), >> >>Not true, 'the Model' reached number one in England... > >I believe it was Number One across the whole of the United Kingdom! Well, whoop-dee-doo. That's *one* hit in *one* country; Moroder had about fifteen *international* Number Ones (factoring in the stuff he produced), and by 'international,' I mean all the major pop markets. Moroder -- unlike Tangerine Dream, Jean-Michel Jarre and Kraftwerk -- did not appeal chiefly to fans of electronic music, rather, his music enjoyed worldwide acceptance and had a long-lasting and entrenched effect on pop music -- all the way up to the present. Perhaps that's why music nitcrits hate him and techno dimwits snub him. -- Steven Feldman -- unhumble webmaster of the fantasmaglorical Chang Cheh website at http://members.spree.com/molasar/hongkong/ch-index.html Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21371 Voices in the Dune WANTED! Rainer Rutka Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB 21395 Re: Voices in the Dune WANTED! Andrew Rozsa Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21407 Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21419 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Richard Ford Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21432 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB 21479 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB 21372 Re: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of S craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/23/2000 5 KB 21375 Re: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of ;-Peter ;-Prisekin aka ;-Dust Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB 21376 Re: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of S craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 1:26 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re:do we all like the same music? On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, horrod6 wrote: > From: horrod6 > Rainer Rutka wrote: > >This brings me to a point I allways wanted to ask some of you guys onto >.. > Rainer, _you_ might not want to start new discussion, but I do. I think > this is a very interesting question and deserves some attention. If we > .. Thank you! > Tomita Oh yes: 'A night on bare mountain!' OH YES!!!!! Rest is intersting, too. My taste is changed from day to day, too. But the records I listed are my all-time-favs.. But I have so much more... > Hope this sparks off another thread to add to the fun! (Sorry Jared.) Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Rainer Rutka Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 1:46 pm Subject: Voices in the Dune WANTED! Urgent! Wanted! Please! I'm looking for an ORIGINAL COPY of the book: Voices in the Dune I'll pay a good price or you get a good swap for it. Please help! Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- See my swap-list: www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21395 Re: Voices in the Dune WANTED! Andrew Rozsa Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21407 Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21419 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Richard Ford Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21432 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB 21479 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 1:10 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. WARNING : ********************* : WARNING Rare moment of lack of self control .... list members of a sensitive disposition should delete this now (and that includes the list admins before I get booted off-list) ..... >From: Steven Feldman >>>>hit of any importance ('Autobahn' and 'The Model' didn't chart for shit), >>> >>>Not true, 'the Model' reached number one in England... >> >>I believe it was Number One across the whole of the United Kingdom! > > Well, whoop-dee-doo. That's *one* hit in *one* country; Moroder >had about fifteen *international* Number Ones (factoring in the stuff >he produced), and by 'international,' I mean all the major pop markets. >Moroder -- unlike Tangerine Dream, Jean-Michel Jarre and Kraftwerk -- >did not appeal chiefly to fans of electronic music, rather, his music >enjoyed worldwide acceptance and had a long-lasting and entrenched >effect on pop music -- all the way up to the present. Perhaps that's >why music nitcrits hate him and techno dimwits snub him. Steven, Who, but you, give a flying fucking shit?!?!?!?! In your previous rant regarding how crap KW are and how great GM is, you presented a sentence (well, at least one, I didn't actually read the whole post) that was factually incorrect! Paul Fellows merely pointed out that whilst KW 'didn't chart for shit' in the USA, they had significant success in the singles chart with The Model (one of the tracks you singled out for particular attention). In fact, The Model has recharted twice since then (as has various remixes of I Feel Love by Donna Summer). My own follow-up to Paul's post was merely to remind everyone that England does not have its own chart, but that it addresses the whole of the United Kingdom. Along with England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland form the United Kingdom - they are not areas within England. Accordingly, I believe the UK market is at worst the second most 'important' [depending on your definition of the term] market in the world. Given that TD are often panned by the critics, I'm not quite sure why you find their adoration of KW and dismissal of GM so upsetting - why should you care? There must be less irritating and aggressive ways to spread the word of Moroder? Yours, From the usually placid and diplomatic, -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... Senior Software Engineer 01383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: 'Todd Tornow' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 2:10 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Losing Mars Polaris Ah! The same B.S. that killed the Challenger Seven. >Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 10:54:40 -0500 > From: 'Jim Moore' >Subject: Losing Mars Polaris > >Here's a link to an article about why the Mars Lander was lost. It appears >the TD album was the only good thing to come out of the whole project... > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_686000/686224.stm > >- jim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Grant M Somerville Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 2:47 pm Subject: Re:Kraftwerk > > >>> They're the know-nothing name-dropper's 70's e-music band of choice. > >>>So many rock critics have fallen prostrated themselves before Kraftwerk > >>>for no other reason than that they were disco influences who never got a > >>>hit of any importance ('Autobahn' and 'The Model' didn't chart for shit), > >> > >>Not true, 'the Model' reached number one in England... > > > >I believe it was Number One across the whole of the United Kingdom! > > Well, whoop-dee-doo. That's *one* hit in *one* country; Moroder > had about fifteen *international* Number Ones >Snip > -- Steven Feldman -- unhumble > webmaster of the fantasmaglorical Chang Cheh website at > http://members.spree.com/molasar/hongkong/ch-index.html > Hi All, Still off topic (sorry Jared, variety is the spice of life Marion ; )). I don't think the point was 'how many hits' Just that the information you imparted was simply...er...wrong. Kind Regards, Grant. Grant M Somerville Glasgow, Scotland. Looking for Live Music Recordings...try http://freespace.virgin.net/grant.somerville/2index.html SOUNDCHECK [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: ';-Peter ;-Prisekin aka ;-Dusty ;-Chalk' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 3:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Steven Feldman wrote: > From: Steven Feldman > >>>>> Whatcha got against Kraftwerk??? > >>> They're the know-nothing name-dropper's 70's e-music... > >>Not true, 'the Model' reached number one in England... > >I believe it was Number One across the whole of the United Kingdom! > Well, whoop-dee-doo. That's *one* hit in *one* country; Moroder > had about fifteen *international* Number Ones (factoring in the stuff > he produced)... As exemplified by the fact that we are all on a list regarding a band that had _no_ number ones (AFAK), I don't think we care. I, personally, am aware of and fans of both Moroder and Kraftwerk, but I don't _love_ Moroder, I do _love_ Kraftwerk. They're just better. Besides, I never trusted the masses. -- I remain, :-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21376 Re: Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of S craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/23/2000 3 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 3:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. >From: ';-Peter ;-Prisekin aka ;-Dusty ;-Chalk' > >As exemplified by the fact that we are all on a list regarding a band that >had _no_ number ones (AFAK),   They're number one in my book NP : Sohoman -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... Senior Software Engineer 01383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 3:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. >From: craig.cordrey@g... >Reply-To: tadream@o... >To: tadream@o... >Subject: Re: [tadream] Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. >Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:14:08 +0000 (GMT) > > > > >From: ';-Peter ;-Prisekin aka ;-Dusty ;-Chalk' > > > >As exemplified by the fact that we are all on a list regarding a band >that > >had _no_ number ones (AFAK), > > > >They're number one in my book > > Phaedra was on the music charts in England. I Don't know long though. NP : The Real Sohoman - Melboure, Australia 1982 -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Radu Velicescu Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] What can the artist do? > From: Rainer Rutka > > On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Ken Mitchell wrote: > > > From: 'Ken Mitchell' > > So what can the artists do about it ? Well how about taking charge ? > What the artists can do? > What Klaus Schulze did, after the first bootlegs of Schulze saw the light > of the world: Release a 50 cd-set with unreleased live concerts and studio- > auttakes in perfect (more or less) quality, nice covers for a good and > fair price! Who needs bad sounding bootlegs if you get it by official ways > in better quality and much cheaper and WITHOUT OVERDUBS? 50 CD mostly > 75-80 minutes with everything the heart of a fan can make booooommmmm ;-) > And the artists get their money for it. This is only fair. > > I know there's a problem with the copyrights of the old virgin material. > But, there's ever a chance to make up a deal. > VERY true and very logical. I, as well as many others I'm sure, would jump on any official released concerts from TDI. If all concerts from say 1975 were officially released I would never listen to another fan tape from that year. I listen to the fan tapes because the music is amazing! I would never give them up - but I would if the official release would come out. Why the worry about copyright? The music played during early concerts (up to 1976 for sure) was different from concert to concert and on no Virgin CD. Croydon 75 is Ricochet, but the rest of the concerts (again, up to 1976, maybe more) have no music from the actual albums. It's original music, never released, what's the problem with that? That sounds logical... Radu np-Reims Opera 75 From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 4:16 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. >From: Steven Feldman >Moroder -- unlike Tangerine Dream, Jean-Michel Jarre and Kraftwerk -- >did not appeal chiefly to fans of electronic music, rather, his music >enjoyed worldwide acceptance and had a long-lasting and entrenched >effect on pop music For the record, Jarre's fan base is made up largely of people not specializing in electronic music. That is why Oxygene sold 15 million copies and why Jarre still pushes a million or two per album release. all the best, Glenn JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic From: Jared White Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 5:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re:do we all like the same music? Hi, Marion, > From: horrod6 > > Hope this sparks off another thread to add to the fun! (Sorry Jared.) Hey, this is a lot more interesting than some of the previous discussions here lately! OK, so here's the kind of music I like when I don't have TD melodies running through my brain (or my CD player): Traditional Celtic music (well, I have to -- I perform it! [http://www.distantoaks.com]) Traditional European music of all sorts Classical -- mostly early music (Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque) Jazz -- mainly classic jazz (all the way from Irving Berlin-like show music to Cab Calloway) and of course a few more modern geniuses like Thelonious Monk Rock -- largely progressive rock and other misc sub-genres (no hard rock and heavy metal) New Age -- or rather good instrumental music than somehow manages to be stuck into new age, plus popular stuff like Enya, George Winston, Nancy Rumbel & Co, etc. EM -- believe it or not, I haven't been listening to EM for terribly long and I don't have a very large collection outside of TD. So when I try to evaluate TD's music on a grand scale, I'm really comparing it to other genres rather than other EM artists. Other EM and sorta-EM artists I do have: JMJ, Synergy (my dad was really into Synergy for a while), Ronan Hardiman (Lord of the Dance and his solo album Solas, which I think is a better Enigma than Enigma), Edgar Froese (does that count? no??), Enigma (actually, I've decided I don't care for them a bit -- anyone want any Enigma albums in almost perfect condition?), and (you'll probably laugh) the Riven soundtrack. Hey, that's great stuff I think, if you like sorta Ambient melodies with lots o' reverb.... Bluegrass -- especially 'newgrass' such as Mark O' Connor, Edgar Meyer, and others like Alison Krauss. Bruce Hornsby -- he's rather a genre all his own, if you ask me. The man's brilliant! Folk -- not much, but a few scattered things here and there. I guess Arlo Guthrie's considered Folk? (My mom's a big fan of his, and I'm starting to become one....) So there you go -- I can't think of anything else right now. In case you hadn't guessed, I hold very little interest in most 'pop' and pop-oriented genres of any type. Pop EM, such as all this modern techno dance craze going on, does not interest me at all, for the most part. But, of course, that's just me.... Well, I guess I'd best be going now -- BTW, this is really becoming a very interesting thread, so please don't mind me! :) Take care, Jared Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21384 Re: Re:do we all like the same music? joe shoults Thu 3/23/2000 5 KB 21385 Re: Re:do we all like the same music? joe shoults Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB 21388 Re: Re:do we all like the same music? Jared White Thu 3/23/2000 2 KB From: Jared White Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 5:56 pm Subject: Formal Apology Dear Tadream List Members, I would like to make a formal apology. Joe Shoults (moderator of Tadream, as I'm sure you all know) just nicely and politely informed me in private that it is a violation of onelist's policy to promote your list on another list without prior permission from the list owner/moderator. I had no idea this was so when I announced I would be starting Art of Vision, but I should have at least used good judgment and asked Joe if it would be all right with him if I did so. I'm afraid I botched the job to some extent, and I would like to apologize to all those concerned. I hope you don't hold it against me in the future. Thank you very much -- I hope you all have a great day. Regards, Jared From: Sean Montgomery Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 6:10 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Kraftwerk: 1 Hit; Moroder: 15 Hits. End of Story. As others have pointed out, I don't think whether a band has had any hits means anything. It's still going to be a matter of personal taste. I think Kraftwerk enjoys favour with critics for a couple of reasons: first of all, they took the arty intellectual high ground with their music. Because they were never big stars, their music became an acquired taste, which critics like. They never put out a disco record, so their output doesn't sound as dated as Moroder (he'll get his due one day...in another decade, I'm sure Disco will become as revered as R&B). But most importantly, ideas were as much a part of Kraftwerk's presenation as their music, and their exploration of the relationship between man and technology really was innovative, and that's a relationship that's on a lot of people's minds now. But there's a second reason why I think they enjoy the adoration of critics: they left the public eye early. Back in the 70s, not many people were doing what they were doing (TD, Jarre, Vangelis, Tomita, etc), so it was easier to be a pioneer. I've argued that this was also the reason for TD's early success too. But by the mid 80s, every band in Europe had a glamourous haircut and a synthesizer. When Electric Cafe arrived, it showed that Kraftwerk was no longer in the business of blazing new trails, but after it's release they disappeared, before they could sully their reputation. TD, meanwhile, became a soundtrack machine and then a New Agey band, which definitely destroyed whatever cache they might have enjoyed with the press. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'David Foster' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 8:07 pm Subject: Other music In reply to Marion, Rainer, Craig Yeah, I listen to other music too In no particular order: Klaus Schulze Rainhard Lakomy Scritti Politti You Patti Smith Marcella Detroit T Rex Utah Saints The Orb Loop Guru But most of all Tangerine Dream. David fozdg@d... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21400 Re: Other music Yensen, Stephen Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB From: 'joe shoults' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 10:08 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re:do we all like the same music? Hey Jared- I'd love to grab those enigma albums. can I trade you something, or cash? Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Jared White [mailto:jwhite@s...] > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 12:35 PM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re:do we all like the same music? > > > From: Jared White > > Hi, Marion, > > > From: horrod6 > > > > Hope this sparks off another thread to add to the fun! > (Sorry Jared.) > > Hey, this is a lot more interesting than some of the previous > discussions > here lately! > > OK, so here's the kind of music I like when I don't have TD > melodies running > through my brain (or my CD player): > > Traditional Celtic music (well, I have to -- I perform it! > [http://www.distantoaks.com]) > Traditional European music of all sorts > Classical -- mostly early music (Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque) > Jazz -- mainly classic jazz (all the way from Irving > Berlin-like show music > to Cab Calloway) and of course a few more modern geniuses > like Thelonious > Monk > Rock -- largely progressive rock and other misc sub-genres > (no hard rock and > heavy metal) > New Age -- or rather good instrumental music than somehow > manages to be > stuck into new age, plus popular stuff like Enya, George > Winston, Nancy > Rumbel & Co, etc. > EM -- believe it or not, I haven't been listening to EM for > terribly long > and I don't have a very large collection outside of TD. So > when I try to > evaluate TD's music on a grand scale, I'm really comparing it to other > genres rather than other EM artists. Other EM and sorta-EM > artists I do > have: JMJ, Synergy (my dad was really into Synergy for a while), Ronan > Hardiman (Lord of the Dance and his solo album Solas, which I > think is a > better Enigma than Enigma), Edgar Froese (does that count? > no??), Enigma > (actually, I've decided I don't care for them a bit -- anyone want any > Enigma albums in almost perfect condition?), and (you'll > probably laugh) the > Riven soundtrack. Hey, that's great stuff I think, if you > like sorta Ambient > melodies with lots o' reverb.... > Bluegrass -- especially 'newgrass' such as Mark O' Connor, > Edgar Meyer, and > others like Alison Krauss. > Bruce Hornsby -- he's rather a genre all his own, if you ask > me. The man's > brilliant! > Folk -- not much, but a few scattered things here and there. > I guess Arlo > Guthrie's considered Folk? (My mom's a big fan of his, and > I'm starting to > become one....) > > So there you go -- I can't think of anything else right now. > In case you > hadn't guessed, I hold very little interest in most 'pop' and > pop-oriented > genres of any type. Pop EM, such as all this modern techno > dance craze going > on, does not interest me at all, for the most part. But, of > course, that's > just me.... > > Well, I guess I'd best be going now -- BTW, this is really > becoming a very > interesting thread, so please don't mind me! :) > > Take care, > > Jared > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/953833465/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > From: 'joe shoults' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 10:18 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re:do we all like the same music? oops. sorry- meant to go offlist. I will go beat myself senseless now. np: Klaus Schulze- Body Love From: 'kayleigh' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 10:16 pm Subject: Do we all like the same music? Law abiding citizens Hey there all. Saw the interesting new thread (SORRY about who doesn't want a new thread/conversation piece, myself I'm always looking for new chat things to bring up). BUT when mentioning new music, and listening to the same types of music, I was very impressed with the wide variety of what people listen to on this mailing list, VERY cool. Here's a short list of what i've been playing the last few days: John Wetton (former singer of Asia) various live studio solo Cds Tangerine Dream (of course) Yes (the new CD 'Ladder' is BRILLIANT) Grateful Dead (never bores me) JImmy Buffett (again, another one i cannot get sick of) Planet P Project Tony Carey (solo material) MARILLION (one of my all time faves) Genesis (all eras, especially with Ray Wilson on vocals) Sting/Police (all of it) Garth Brooks, Tim McGraw, Alabama, Faith Hill (yes, country :)) AND on top of that, a wide variety of other music ranging from Jon Anderson solo, Asia (VERY awesome material), to everything like Journey, Collins, Midge Ure (very surprised to see his name pop up), Ultravox, and other things like Peter Murphy. I'm always excited to see what people listen to. Saw Queensryche live last Sunday in Grand Rapids, Michigan and ABSOLUTELY fABULOUS live performance. dan Kayleigh's Playhouse! http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! ICQ#1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 Yahoo Pager: kayleigh_tootiehoot From: 'joe shoults' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 10:36 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Formal Apology Don't be silly. no apology necessary at all. I just wanted to let you know so you didn't get in trouble from another list somewhere. You know I don't mind, and hope your list thrives! > -----Original Message----- > From: Jared White [mailto:jwhite@s...] > Subject: [tadream] Formal Apology From: Jared White Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 10:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re:do we all like the same music? > From: 'joe shoults' > > oops. sorry- meant to go offlist. I will go beat myself senseless now. Yeeowch. That oughta smart! Jared :) From: 'Ken Mitchell' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 6:51 am Subject: Morality >Ken Mitchell wrote: > > > You can debate the morals of it from here to when the cows come home > > it doesn't matter - just like prostitution it will always be around. > > > >Ken, I'm not even going to say whether I do or don't 'approve' of fan >taping (or prostitution) or not. But I *do* have a problem with your >argument. Here's why: > >Substitute the word 'murder' for the word 'prostitution' in the above >statement. The implication is that it's fine for us all to go out and >commit murder, even if it's illegal, because 'it will always be around'. > Hmmm not sure I can equate a mutually agreed contract with forcibly taking a persons life in the morality stakes ! However as has been said by Rainer and others - the artist can take some measures to satisfy the hard core fans and make a little profit. I do fail to see how an artist can ever lose money from fan taping. It's interestinmg to note how many modern bands really don't have a problem with it. Ozric Tentacles encourage fan taping - all they ask is that you send them a copy ! Ken ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Thu Mar 23, 2000 11:58 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] Morality >From: 'Ken Mitchell' >However as has been said by Rainer and >others - the artist can take some measures to satisfy the hard core fans and >make a little profit. I do fail to see how an artist can ever lose money >from fan taping. Its not only about loosing money. Its also about the right to decide what you are going to do with your own creation of art. Art in any form is intelectual property, and you wouldnt steal physical property, would you? So why steal intelectual property? The word 'copyright' means 'the right to copy'. Only the artist or the one s/he allows, has the right to duplicate and distribute copies, because artists wants to be in control of their creations. >It's interestinmg to note how many modern bands really don't have a problem >with it. Ozric Tentacles encourage fan taping - all they ask is that you >send them a copy ! But that doesnt make it legal. The band cannot change international law by saying its OK with bootlegs. I am not talking about the moral of fan taping here, just the black and white law. all the best, glenn JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic From: Bennett Cookson Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 1:05 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Other music (FYI: In considering non-TD I am not counting TD related artists like EF,CF singles) Vangelis (El Greco is current favorite) Kitaro Dream is favorite David Arkenstone Mannheim Steamroller (Fresh Aire) (Old time favorite) Mike Oldfield Patrick O'Hearn Kansas ('Never still the same' -- Excellent) Boston (My idea of 'Hard rock') Enya Alan Parsons ('On Air,' is excellent! As is Time Machine ) Note: If you don't have Alan Parsons 'On Air,' buy it (if for nothing else) just for the instrumental track 'Apollo' Every track is excellent, but 'Apollo' is exceptional. Solid driving beat, very structured, with a rocking climax. (Even includes message from Pres. Kennedy on the Apollo mission) I can't describe it like some list members do. Any one else familiar with this one? --Bennett NP: TB2 - Mike Oldfield [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21392 Re: Other music Sean Montgomery Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21394 Re: Other music quarlie@a... Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21408 Re: Other music C Chambers Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB From: Sean Montgomery Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 1:32 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Other music I listen to all kinds of music, so it's hard to generalize. Some of my current favourite artists include Moby, Filla Brazillia, The Magnetic Fields, William Orbit, Saint Etienne, Beck, Air, Massive Attack, The Cocteau Twins, Radiohead, Underworld, Thievery Corporation, and the Chemical Brothers. But that just scratched the surface. I also like some mainstream alternative music (Smashing Pumpkins, Beastie Boys), ambient (The Orb, Eno, FSOL), acid jazz/trip hop (DJ Shadow, Morcheeba), world music (Transglobal Underground, Delerium), and all sorts of music from the 80 and early 90s (Depeche Mode, New Order, Smiths, Stone Roses). And then there's the 70s; I still have a soft spot for Supertramp, ELO, the Alan Parsons Project...and Pink Floyd of course. Like everyone, I love the Beatles. And on and on it goes. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'cinemafan' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:44 am Subject: Re:do we all like the same music I think most of us here can agree that we enjoy E music. If it has keyboards and no lyric's all the better. For what it's worth my 10 albums to which I would rescue upon the sinking of my cruise ship: 1. Logos (or Logostypes)-some foreign band 2.Dawn of the Dead OST- Goblin 3. Escape From New York OST- John Carpenter,Alan Howarth 4. Zoolook -Jarre 5. Psalm 69 -Ministry 6. Spellbound-Paula Abdul (Don't kill me,guilty guilt pleasure) 7.Scarface OST-Giorgio Moroder 8. Valotte -Julian Lennon 9. White Eagle - Some German band 10. Sgt. Peppers- The Beatles Oh happy day. Chris Chouinard np. X-Klaus S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: quarlie@a... Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 3:49 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Other music I suppose I, too, will take a shot at assembling a list of my favorite non-TD artists and groups. It's hard to trim the list down to the most notable entries, but here goes. Covenant (the industrial-pop trio, not the death metal band) Dead Can Dance Delerium (and other related projects, but Delerium's my favorite so far) Enya Front 242 Information Society Juno Reactor The Orb Pressurehed, and the vast interconnected web of its members' side projects (Anubian Lights, Farflung, the Brain, Spiral Realms, Zero Gravity, etc...) Tears for Fears (especially since 1989, though I like the earlier stuff too) In addition to these favorites, there are several genres that I have lots of, but in which I don't have very many releases by any individual artist (yet): ambient, synth-pop, techno, space-rock and prog-rock, most prominently. --Daniel NP: Gary Numan--the Pleasure Principle From: Andrew Rozsa Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 3:56 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Voices in the Dune WANTED! At 13:46 3/23/00 -0100, RR wrote: >From: Rainer Rutka > >I'm looking for an ORIGINAL COPY of the book: > > Voices in the Dune > [....] Ask Klaus. Betcha he still has a copy. Andrew Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21407 Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21419 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Richard Ford Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21432 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB 21479 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: Michael Jean Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 1:20 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Voices in the Dune WANTED! I have had a copy up on EBAY all week, without any bids... MJ ------Original Message------ From: Rainer Rutka To: Tangerine Dream mailing list Sent: March 23, 2000 2:46:19 PM GMT Subject: [tadream] Voices in the Dune WANTED! From: Rainer Rutka Urgent! Wanted! Please! I'm looking for an ORIGINAL COPY of the book: Voices in the Dune I'll pay a good price or you get a good swap for it. Please help From: Bert.Hulshoff@N... Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 7:54 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? Law abiding citizens My Fav Music : Klaus Schulze Tangerine Dream Ozric Tentacles Hawkwind Yes Gong Black Sabbath Deep Purple Led Zeppelin Eat Static And myself ;-) Keep on Dreamin' Bert aka Phrozenlight my Homepage http://go.to/phrozenlight/ (still under construction) please listen to my spacesongs and send me an review ;-) From: PENFOLD Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 8:28 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Public Service Announcement: There Are 4 TD Lists What about the TD 'The Keep' list? (waits for the big wave) Pete Isaacson DJ DreamHead mailto:penfold@a... Saw copy of _The Keep_ LP, held it in his hands, but didn't have the $ 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese, on the way Tangerine Dream decides on which instruments to take on the road. From an interview in _Keyboard_ magazine. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Pergamon' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 10:20 am Subject: Invisible shadows Hello all Just got the 'invisible shadows' CD today, this CD is brilliant. As Cartman would say it, 'this CD kicks ass'. Thanks to all the artist appearing on the CD. Jan pergamon@g... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Yensen, Stephen' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 10:12 am Subject: Re: Other music Hi Dreamers, My list of other faves, in no particular order are: Fairport Convention Richard Thompson Sandy Denny Jean-Michel Jarre Vangelis Emerson Lake and Palmer Yes Rick Wakeman Kraftwerk Mike Oldfield Otherwise it's lots of TD ... As far as the initial entries are concerned, I was a folkie long before I was introduced to EM. In my defence, there is at least one other Fairport Convention freak on this list (at the time of writing) ... Cheers, Steve np: Underwater Sunlight - -- Home: syensen@i... http://www.innotts.co.uk/~syensen/ Work: Stephen.Yensen@s... See Charlie and Bertie on http://www.beaglebuddies.com/charlie/charlie.html No animals were harmed in the production and transmission of this e-mail ... From: Tomas Rydqvist Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 10:54 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible shadows I can agree , i just got it and it was a very nice suprise, big thanks to the man that tipped us to get this cd.Thanks again Totta Pergamon wrote: > From: 'Pergamon' > > Hello all > > Just got the 'invisible shadows' CD today, this CD is brilliant. As Cartman would say it, 'this CD kicks ass'. Thanks to all the artist appearing on the CD. > > Jan > > pergamon@g... > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/953893256/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21412 Re: Invisible shadows Gabe Yedid Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21413 Re: Invisible shadows Antonio Nunes Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21417 Re: Invisible shadows Gabe Yedid Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21414 Re: Invisible shadows Marcelo Gutierrez Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB From: 'Patrik .' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:29 pm Subject: [tadream] Re: Other music Hi there in Orange Community! This is some of the stuff I listen to except TD: Genesis Flower Kings Kaipa Terje Rypdal Jeff Beck Wolfgang A. Mozart Steve Hackett Ludvig van Beethoven Emerson Lake & Palmer Miles Davis ------------ Greetings from Estoccolmo Patrik ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21424 Re: Re: Other music Carlo Ruggiero Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21468 Re: Re: Other music Christopher Lomas Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: Tom Richmond Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 1:50 pm Subject: Other music... I'll chime in on this topic too. One of the main reasons I hang out here and on other lists is to learn what else is out there that people with similar tastes listen to (and like). The only downside is I'll never make enough money to buy it all. :-( So here's a quick list of non-TD things I like: Other EM: Redshift Jarre Synergy Intelligentsia Andy Pickford Ian Boddy Schulze (some more than others...) Free System Projekt (most excellent BS EM, buy it so he keeps making more) + some others I'm surely forgetting I also have the following on order, based on hearing small samples that I liked: Ashra, Ramp, Weird, Kubuschnitt, Arcane and Can Atilla (looking forward to hearing them all) Non-EM: Pink Floyd Yes Black Sabbath Led Zeppelin (going to see John Paul Jones this evening!) Live Bush Mike Oldfield Patrick O'Hearn The Beatles Garbage Garbage probably qualifies as pop (as do the Beatles, but so what), but they have a sound that I'm quite hooked on. If anybody else is doing this style as well, I'd like to know about it. Cheers! Tom Richmond Menomonee Falls, WI USA Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21458 Re: Other music... PENFOLD Sun 3/26/2000 2 KB From: 'teiwaz _' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 2:15 pm Subject: >just the black and white law. >just the black and white law. I thought the law was that piracy was illegal--copying copyrighted material--e.g. dubbing a copy of 'the keep' or 'force majeure'. Fan tapes/tapes of live shows or whatever are generally not copyrighted. I'm not so sure that the artists--immediately upon the cessation of a concert--rush out and apply for copyrights on said performances. As for intellectual rights, perhaps the only way for an artist to maintain thode rights is to leave them where they may have been first created--in their heads. --teiwaz (who wishes he was playing air guitar to the 'great white buffalo/hibernation (tm)' right now, but I haven't heard double live gonzo in 20 years--what a great slab of vinyl. Time to track down a CD of it I suppose.) .) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21406 Re: >just the black and white law. craig.cordrey@g... Fri 3/24/2000 4 KB 21442 Re: >CAn Attila Michael A Jean Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB From: 'C Chambers' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 2:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? I would take from Bert's list: > Klaus Schulze > Tangerine Dream > Ozric Tentacles > Hawkwind > Yes > Gong > Deep Purple and add the following: Pink Floyd (Echoes at least once a day!) Manuel Gottsching (in any incarnation, but especially Ashra) Grobschnitt (Rockpommel's Land...oh yeah!!) Eloy (Ocean 1 and 2) Fish/Marillion (what a killer Fish show in Atlanta last month!) Roger Waters (Amused to Death--last centuries great rock and roll epitaph!) Mike Oldfield (Ommadawn...my wife even gets into this one!) King Crimson (when I want some structured dissonance) Dixie Dregs/Steve Morse Band (when I want to listen to the 'best' guitarist on the planet) Grand Funk (Closer to Home is one of the seminal radio songs from the 70's) Agitation Free (Second!!) Pat Metheny (when my wife is in the mood)--some TD works well for this also... Genesis (the Live Lamb still blows me away...Firth of Fifth has one of the greatest Tension/Release segments in rock and roll) Van der Graaf Generator (man, I love that Hammond! and that sax! and Peter Hammill's 200db of dynamic vocal range...which is on top of some of the spookiest, deepest penetrating lyrics ever written!) After listening to (er, studying) Peter Hammill's lyrics it is easy to see how I got spoiled by GREAT song writing and tend to ignore the typical song with lyrics these days...which is pretty much why I am into instrumental music. Only two people come close to Peter Hammill's lyrics (IMO, of course) and they are Roger Waters and Fish (neither of which are even close!) Enough?? Craig Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21409 Re: Do we all like the same music? Bert.Hulshoff@N... Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21418 Re: Do we all like the same music? David Foster Fri 3/24/2000 4 KB 21425 Re: Do we all like the same music? Craig Chambers Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21445 Re: Do we all like the same music? aoutland@a... Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 2:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] >just the black and white law. >From: 'teiwaz _' Having recently done a short Contract Law course covering issues of Copyright and IPR, just thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth. Note the following all applies to English Law (probably Scottish Law too, but it is a different beast so cannot be 100% sure). >Fan tapes/tapes of live shows or whatever are generally not copyrighted. >I'm not so sure that the artists--immediately upon the cessation of a >concert--rush out and apply for copyrights on >said performances. Copyright exists as soon as an item is produced - you do not apply for copyright. It is the owner's right to either make copies him/herself or to allow nominated other(s) to do so. As such, anything that is issued/presented by anyone is their copyright. Thus, the musical material played by Tangerine Dream (or any other artist) in their concert _is_ their copyright and, as such, it is illegal for others to _copy_ this material without the artist's consent, irrespective of whether or not this is done for profit. The other side of copyright is the trademark/patents side of things, which _must_ be applied for, e.g. the TDI logo. All very boring, definitely getting off-topic and pretty irrelevant. If you (that's a general 'you' aimed at all on the list, not you specifically, Teiwaz) were tape trading under the misapprehension that it was legal, and were only doing so because you felt it was safe, then stop trading immediately. NP : Ave by Can Atilla - interestingly, whilst breach of copyright _is_ illegal, plagiarism is not ... At the start of everything, there was this really big guy who thought to himself, I'll make a nice, small, easily managed eco-system to study .... -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21442 Re: >CAn Attila Michael A Jean Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 3:48 pm Subject: Voices / Solar Eclipse Hi you all! Two things: 1) Thank you all for the kind offers of VOICES IN THE DUNE! I got much more offers than I ever expected. Now I got a copy. Again: This was very nice of you all. 2) Got the last bulk of the 'SOLAR ECLIPSE' CDs today. During the next days I'll buy some packages and ship the disk to all of you, who did a reservation. Btw: Fond some interesting new links for TD sites onto the internet. See my updated links site (unfortunately they are in german language). have fun.... Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21419 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Richard Ford Fri 3/24/2000 3 KB 21432 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB 21479 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: 'C Chambers' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 2:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Other music > Note: If you don't have Alan Parsons 'On Air,' buy it (if for nothing else) > just for the instrumental track 'Apollo' > Every track is excellent, but 'Apollo' is exceptional. Solid driving beat, > very structured, with a rocking climax. (Even includes message from Pres. > Kennedy on the Apollo mission) I can't describe it like some list members > do. Any one else familiar with this one? Yes, I have it and love it also...Apollo is one of those killer tracks that AP sprinkles onto each of his albums. Reminds a bit of the Mike Oldfield 'Songs of Distant Earth' which is a favorite also. From: Bert.Hulshoff@N... Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 3:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? Well Graig you've got a lot of good Groups in your list. after reading your list I realized that I had forgotten some in my list ;-) Eloy, Grobschnitt, Novalis, Ashra, Ashra Temple, etc ( see your list ) > ---------- > From: C Chambers[SMTP:craigchambers@c...] > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 15:41 > To: tadream@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? > > From: 'C Chambers' > > I would take from Bert's list: > > > Klaus Schulze > > Tangerine Dream > > Ozric Tentacles > > Hawkwind > > Yes > > Gong > > Deep Purple > > and add the following: > > Pink Floyd > Manuel Gottsching (in any incarnation, but especially Ashra) > Grobschnitt (Rockpommel's Land...oh yeah!!) > Eloy (Ocean 1 and 2) > Fish/Marillion > Roger Waters > Mike Oldfield (Ommadawn...) > King Crimson > > Genesis ( with Peter Gabriel ) > > Van der Graaf Generator > > Keep on Dreamin' > > Bert > aka Phrozenlight > > my Homepage > http://go.to/phrozenlight/ > (still under construction) > please listen to my spacesongs and send me an review ;-) > my home-email phrozenlight@z... > From: Vic Rek Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Other music... & Okefenokee > From: Tom Richmond [...] > Free System Projekt (most excellent BS EM, buy it so he keeps making more) > + some others I'm surely forgetting Marcel Engels, the man behind FSP, will be at the Okefenokee Swamp trip next month - all the way from The Nederlands! We are hoping to record some of Marcel's music along with David Brewer's. We still have openings for the trip. Please contact me if you are still interested. Vic From: Bennett Cookson Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:23 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D:Studio [Underwater Sunlight] This album represents why I'm a TD fan. A big enough fan to join a mailing list. Song Of The Whale Part Two: to dusk from Underwater Sunlight is a total masterpiece. Ride on the Ray is another favorite. I wish they would release live versions from Underwater Sunlight tours... --Bennett np: Ride on the Ray [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gabe Yedid Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:32 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible shadows On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Tomas Rydqvist wrote: > I can agree , i just got it and it was a very nice suprise, big thanks to the man that tipped us to > get this cd.Thanks again > Where does one write to acquire this CD again? cheers, Gabe From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible shadows Gabe Yedid wrote: > > Where does one write to acquire this CD again? Send a message to invisible-shadow@m... Antonio Nunes np: Invisible Shadows 'Gift' No.75 of 500 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21417 Re: Invisible shadows Gabe Yedid Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 5:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible shadows > From: Gabe Yedid > > On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Tomas Rydqvist wrote: > > > I can agree , i just got it and it was a very nice suprise, big thanks to the man that tipped us to > > get this cd.Thanks again > > > > Where does one write to acquire this CD again? > > cheers, > > Gabe > Just follow this link http://www.invisible-shadow.de/ and I agree that it is a fantastic compilation, I specially like the first track by 'Tranquillity' (I think) Marcelo From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 5:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] >just the black and white law. >From: 'teiwaz _' >Reply-To: tadream@o... >To: tadream@o..., teiwazbarana@h... >Subject: [tadream] >just the black and white law. >Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:15:30 PST > I hate to continue this thread, and this e-mail is not a support of for-profit bootlegs. As much as I like the stuff on Electronic Orgy, I'll say again, disc 4 was pretty much un-called for. But anyways, on to my rant... >I thought the law was that piracy was illegal--copying copyrighted >material--e.g. dubbing a copy of 'the keep' or 'force majeure'. Actually, the Supreme Court of the US decided that making a copy for your own personal not-for-profit use [provided you don't distribute to an extent of $500, even if no profit is involved]. This was decided when VCRs were coming out. The movie industry and TV broadcasters tried to stop the sale of VCRs saying their only purpose was to record programs and copy movies. The word 'fair use' was born. By the way, the stuff in brackets above was added by our wonderful liberal President Clinton, software protection agencies, etc. last year as the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. This is the provision under which college students are going to prison for sharing software that they wouldn't have bought ANYWAY. >Fan tapes/tapes of live shows or whatever are generally not copyrighted. >I'm not so sure that the artists--immediately upon the cessation of a >concert--rush out and apply for copyrights on >said performances. If the artists really have no problem with copying, then they need to make a public statement that we don't mind if our concerts are taped, but if we release that concert on tape/CD, then all fantapes must be destroyed or whatever. (And of course they probably need to have their own label because no label is going to allow that!!!) I agree with the concept that I wouldn't bother to have a fantape for a concert which is officially released for 2 reasons, to profit the artist for his hard work, and hell, for the sound quality! Did I mention how excited I am over Soundmill Navigator? Hrmm guys, should I wait to see if it's Tangentized or just buy it? -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21416 Re: >just the black and white law. Bennett Cookson Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21422 Re: >just the black and white law. Feldon Feldon Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21431 Re: >just the black and white law. Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB From: Bennett Cookson Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 6:35 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] >just the black and white law. Morgan said: I agree with the concept that I wouldn't bother to have a fantape for a concert which is officially released ... The interesting thing here is that most people into fan tapes are not in It to save money. They probably already bought everything they can buy from the artist, but still hunger for more . As opposed to someone tapping popular hits off the radio to avoid buying the whole album. --Bennett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gabe Yedid Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 7:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible shadows Thank you very much! Gabe From: 'David Foster' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 7:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? ----- Original Message ----- From: C Chambers To: Sent: Friday, March 24, 2000 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? > From: 'C Chambers' > >' I would take from Bert's list.........and add > > > > Fish/Marillion (what a killer Fish show in Atlanta last month!) > > Van der Graaf Generator (man, I love that Hammond! and that sax! and Peter > Hammill's 200db of dynamic vocal range...which is on top of some of the > spookiest, deepest penetrating lyrics ever written!) > > After listening to (er, studying) Peter Hammill's lyrics it is easy to see > how I got spoiled by GREAT song writing and tend to ignore the typical song > with lyrics these days...which is pretty much why I am into instrumental > music. Only two people come close to Peter Hammill's lyrics (IMO, of > course) and they are Roger Waters and Fish (neither of which are even > close!) Enough?? > > Craig' > I agree. Great music, great artists. Don't take this personally but I went to see Peter Hammill years ago when he supported Marillion and the Marrillion fans were so badly behaved during Peter Hammill's set, it was awful being in the same auditorium as them. Its nice to see that some of us can like both. Peter Hammill is a good poet as well. Have you read his books? No, I haven't got any but I'm sure someone out there has. When I saw them they were worth reading. David fozdg@d... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/953908871/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: Richard Ford Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 7:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Voices / Solar Eclipse Hi Rainer I've not heard if you want any money?? > >Hi you all! > >Two things: > >1) Thank you all for the kind offers of VOICES IN THE DUNE! I got > much more offers than I ever expected. Now I got a copy. Again: This > was very nice of you all. > >2) Got the last bulk of the 'SOLAR ECLIPSE' CDs today. During the next days > I'll buy some packages and ship the disk to all of you, who did a > reservation. > >Btw: Fond some interesting new links for TD sites onto the internet. >See my updated links site (unfortunately they are in german language). > >have fun.... > > Rainer > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > www.rutka.de/td >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% >Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! >http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/953909403/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... >Website: http://www.tadream.net > > -- Richard Ford Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21432 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB 21479 Re: Voices / Solar Eclipse Rainer Rutka Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: 'twosheds' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 8:04 pm Subject: re: Morality >Substitute the word 'murder' for the word 'prostitution' in the above >statement. The implication is that it's fine for us all to go out and >commit murder, even if it's illegal, because 'it will always be around'. >OK, fan taping is hardly in the same league as murder, but where do you >draw the line between 'illegal but allowable' and 'illegal and totally >unacceptable'? Don't ask me, I'm not a 100% law-abiding citizen myself, >and I don't suppose many of us are. I think the point at which most would draw the line is where they felt it was hurting someone. Murder, obviously, hurts lots of people, whereas prostitution can be practiced without hurting anyone. Taping is in the same league, I think, for most of us. If we thought it REALLY hurt the artist, we'd stop. Phish's biggest fan site, phish.net, says that if you have unwittingly bought a bootleg, you should copy it for as many people as you can, thus denying the bootlegger any additional profits. Sounds good to me. Scott From: 'twosheds' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 8:08 pm Subject: Re: Morality >>It's interestinmg to note how many modern bands really don't have a problem >>with it. Ozric Tentacles encourage fan taping - all they ask is that you >>send them a copy ! >But that doesnt make it legal. The band cannot change international law by saying its OK with bootlegs. I am >not talking about the moral of fan taping here, just the black and white law. Maybe not in Norway, but it makes it legal here. Bands that allow taping usually have formal taping policies posted on their websites. in summary, most allow taping & trading for personal use only, and not for profit. If anyone's interested (and at this point, I doubt anyone is) I can post links to some taping policies. Scott From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 8:07 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] >just the black and white law. I've got pretty much every TD album that I care to own. :) >From: Bennett Cookson >Reply-To: tadream@o... >To: ''tadream@o...'' >Subject: RE: [tadream] >just the black and white law. >Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:35:11 -0700 > >Morgan said: > I agree with the concept that I wouldn't bother to have a fantape for a >concert which is officially released ... > > >The interesting thing here is that most people into fan tapes are not in It >to save money. They probably already bought everything they can buy from >the artist, but still hunger for more > >. As opposed to someone tapping popular hits off the radio to avoid buying >the whole album. > > >--Bennett > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21431 Re: >just the black and white law. Rainer Rutka Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB From: aslanfan1@a... Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 9:10 pm Subject: My listening I'll chime in on this as I've got stuff nobody else seems to listen to. I like artist's execution and sound far more than any one genre. Some of this is pretty heavy for some of you. Dream Theater (holy cow, musicianship at its finest, but heavy toons) Saga (great guitar/keyboard interplay) Keiko Matsui (beautiful, accessible piano mood music) Eric Johnson (astounding guitar playing) Iona (amazing mix of celtic, rock and progressive with Christian lyrics) Alan Parsons (old faithful, production quality is stunning) Flower Kings (unknown prog in the spirit of 70s Genesis) Fates Warning post No Exit (Pleasant Shade of Grey is outstanding) Megadeth (can't help it, I just like em) Mike Oldfield (annoying guitar at times, but truly unique) Geoff Downes (Yes/Asia) Marillion (older is better) Rush (classic) Kings X (heavy but innovative) Pink Floyd (overexposed, but classic) Spock's Beard (unique progressive) Pat Metheny GROUP (some of his stuff is genius, some is awful) Red Shift (it's a clone of TD, but pretty good nonetheless) Classic Kansas (way ahead of their time) Enigma (when it's new its great, wears off over time) Dixie Dregs/Steve Morse (guitar wiz) The Rippingtons (happy jazz, very melodic) MAGNA CARTA label releases From: Carlo Ruggiero Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 9:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Other music Ok, I'll bite on this one: Besides TD and ex-members Haslinger, Schmoelling, Schulze and Franke: AirSculpture; Patrick O'Hearn; Enigma; Delerium; U2; Seal; Steve Roach; Phil Collins/Genesis; Sting/Police; Sarah McLachlan; Eagles/Don Henley; Bryan Adams; Amanda Marshall; Duncan Sheik; Mark Snow (X-Files) There are plenty of other artists (EM, Rock, Pop) that I listen to and I keep finding more good music. Lost interest in JMJ and Vangelis awhile ago. I am curious about Arcane, Andy Pickford, and Redshift, and Under the Dome (among others) but have no albums by them yet. I just got Deep Space by John Stanford (Techno EM) - it is very repetitive, but the music is so clean and sharp (if you get my drift). Talk to you later, Carlo From: 'Craig Chambers' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 9:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? > I agree. Great music, great artists. Don't take this personally but I > went to see Peter Hammill years ago when he supported Marillion and the > Marrillion fans were so badly behaved during Peter Hammill's set, it was > awful being in the same auditorium as them. Its nice to see that some of us > can like both. Peter Hammill is a good poet as well. Have you read his > books? No, I haven't got any but I'm sure someone out there has. When I > saw them they were worth reading. I can believe the Marillion fans were a bit rowdy...but it is ironic that Fish cites Hammill as one of his biggest influences. PH's 'Fool's Mate' and 'Over' both appear on Marillion album covers. But no, I have not ever seen any of his books, didn't even know they existed frankly! Gee thanks, for showing me just one more thing that I have to go on a quest to find...I will never rest... This seriously going off topic here, isn't it. Sorry. Craig From: 'Craig Chambers' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 10:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] My listening > Dream Theater (holy cow, musicianship at its finest, but heavy toons) > Dixie Dregs/Steve Morse (guitar wiz) The double-billed recent tour was magnificent! Is this the list that we can talk about fantapes on? I am confused... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21428 Re: My listening joe shoults Fri 3/24/2000 2 KB 21434 Re: My listening Craig Chambers Sat 3/25/2000 3 KB From: tweibre361@a... Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 11:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 432 In a message dated 3/23/00 5:14:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, tadream@o... writes: << OK, fan taping is hardly in the same league as murder >> it isnt? have u ever taped a show? believe me, its murder.... tom w np: the orb @ woodstock Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21433 Re: Digest Number 432 Craig Chambers Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB From: 'joe shoults' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 11:44 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] My listening yes, we talk about TD fantapes here, but if you mean fantapes about Dream Theater and Marillion, that would be a little TOO far OT. joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Chambers [mailto:craigchambers@c...] > > Dream Theater (holy cow, musicianship at its finest, but > heavy toons) > > Dixie Dregs/Steve Morse (guitar wiz) > > The double-billed recent tour was magnificent! Is this the > list that we can > talk about fantapes on? I am confused... > From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 10:32 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] Re: Morality >From: 'twosheds' >Maybe not in Norway, but it makes it legal here. Bands that allow taping >usually have formal taping policies posted on their websites. If the band owns the rights to their own music, then it is fine. If they dont, they encourage criminal activity if they encourage fan taping. Besides, the moment you copy a tape/CDR and hand it to your friend (for free or for money) you are in the bootleg business which is a separate field from only 'fan taping' for personal use. >in summary, >most allow taping & trading for personal use only, and not for profit. I dont belive 'most' allow taping for personal use, because most bands/artists does not own the publishing rights to their own music. Some bands does, of course. Maybe TD does, but certainly not most bands who hand over publishing rights as part of getting a record contract. all the best, Glenn JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Fri Mar 24, 2000 10:44 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] Re: Other music Well........ (in no particular order): Vangelis some Mike Oldfield Jean-Michel Jarre Biosphere Erasure Kraftwerk Billy Ocean John Williams (soundtrack composer) Sigmund Groven and more! glenn From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 1:10 am Subject: RE: [tadream] >just the black and white law. On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Feldon Feldon wrote: > From: 'Feldon Feldon' > >The interesting thing here is that most people into fan tapes are not in It > >to save money. They probably already bought everything they can buy from > >the artist, but still hunger for more O H Y E S S O O O O O T R U E ! ! ! ! ! Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 1:16 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Voices / Solar Eclipse On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Richard Ford wrote: > From: Richard Ford > Hi Rainer > I've not heard if you want any money?? Yes. Not now. Because I don't know how much I have to pay for the postage (airmail). The disk is 14 DM / $7 + postage. But I'll send an email to everybody later. First the disk - later the money. I'll trust you all ;-) Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: 'Craig Chambers' Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 2:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 432 > > << OK, fan taping is hardly in the same league as murder >> > > it isnt? have u ever taped a show? believe me, its murder.... > > tom w Especially when you have some drunk a**hole who sings at the top of his lungs, out of key, wrong lyrics, off time...right? The lunatic is on the grass!! You gonna try again this go round? Let me know... Craig C. From: 'Craig Chambers' Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 2:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] My listening Sorry, just checking to see if your paying attention... :-) I would not want to talk about these shows on list, but if anybody wants to discuss offlist, give me a note. > yes, we talk about TD fantapes here, but if you mean fantapes about Dream > Theater and Marillion, that would be a little TOO far OT. > > joe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Craig Chambers [mailto:craigchambers@c...] > > > Dream Theater (holy cow, musicianship at its finest, but > > heavy toons) > > > Dixie Dregs/Steve Morse (guitar wiz) > > > > The double-billed recent tour was magnificent! Is this the > > list that we can > > talk about fantapes on? I am confused... > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/953941222/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > From: 'Frank' Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 1:21 pm Subject: Fan Taping / Food For Thought / Musical taste Hi Gang, This fan taping sure has stirred up interest in many. That's probably why it hasn't gone away. For some people it's quite easy to see things in black and white, right or wrong, but for others it's not as simple as that. Maybe its a matter of not seeing the forest from the trees, I don't know. A couple reoccurring thoughts though. It seems to me that not only are we at the mercy of our passions, [For me collecting art and music and building great sound systems has costed me a fortune] but maybe we're also at the mercy of Edgar and other outside forces [Publishers, labels, etc]. I seem to recall reading a statement that Edgar once made, 'that it would take an army of lawyers....'. Now what I'm presuming he was talking about was prosecuting people for whatever their misdeeds were. Now how many of us wouldn't feel a bit uncomfortable if 'the fuzz' or say the IRS came knocking on our door? I believe the majority of us would. Some of us may not even be able to walk away and could even end up taking 'an extended vacation in the big house'. Are we not guilty of something? I know I'm guilty of loving TD's music too much, I'll admit that. On that basis I would ask for mercy. All I can say is 'count your blessings' for Edgar's tolerance. His reasons are many, I'm sure. Sorry if this seems a bit unorganized, I'm an artist of many facets, but writing wouldn't be one of them. Frank Arellano PS. I welcome any comments or feedback, thanks. These days I mostly listen to electronic groups, [TD and TD esque Berlin School sequencers] but I do have an affinity for contemporary native american instrumental music. If you've never heard the music of say Peter Buffett's '500 Nations', Sacred Spirits, Brule, Lee Blaske's 'The Spirit Of Native America', Douglas Spotted Eagle's 'Common Ground' or a number of others, you've got to give them a try. I think you all would be pleasantly surprised! A few of my favorites: David Arkenstone Peter Buffett Clannad CUSCO Dylan Enigma Enya Fleetwood Mac Moody Blues O'Hearn Pink Floyd Santana Douglas Spotted Eagle Springsteen Rod Stewart U2 Yanni Neil Young [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: tweibre361@a... Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 12:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 435 In a message dated 3/25/00 3:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, tadream@o... writes: << Especially when you have some drunk a**hole who sings at the top of his lungs, out of key, wrong lyrics, off time...right? The lunatic is on the grass!! You gonna try again this go round? Let me know... >> well that one made me want to commit murder...it was a trio though...and yes, ill try to do the MSG show... tom w np: waters @ jones 99 From: Glynn Naughton Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 1:25 pm Subject: D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] Hello there, A classic album! In which TD do their best Pink Floyd impersonation, at least on 'Song of the Whale'. All the Floyd hallmarks are there - the pompous, laid-back beat, the soaring guitar solos. (On part 1, Edgar somehow does a pretty good Gilmour impersonation and still ends up sounding like Edgar. Quite an achievement.) But side two: with the possible exception of 'Dolphin Dance' - oh dear! As far as I'm concerned, this is useless filler. 'Ride on the Ray' is yet another rehash of that 'Vermillion Sands' sequence, 'Scuba Scuba' has the daftest title ever given to a piece of music, and 'Underwater Twilight' blatantly rips of a well-known Jarre track - sorry, don't know enough about Jarre to know the name of the track. If they'd put, say, 'Valley of the Sun' across the whole of side 2, this would have been an outstanding album from beginning to end. Presumably commercial considerations inclined them towards including some short, snappy tracks. Prior to _Dream Roots_, I could never work out how much credit Haslinger deserves for this album (apart from the piano opening to SOW Part 2). The answer seems to be: not much. The 'Song of the Whale' style was clearly something that Edgar and Chris had worked up themselves before he came on the scene. You need only listen to 'Vanishing Blue' to hear this. Despite the weak stuff, this is, for me, the last great TD album, and marks the boundary between a band that could do extraordinary things, and band that, although past its peak, occasionally produces nice music. Glynn Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21443 Re: D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] Michael A Jean Sat 3/25/2000 2 KB From: Glynn Naughton Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 1:29 pm Subject: The End of the 'Zoo' Hello all, Just a quick note: the Mechanical Cabaret in Covent Garden (which I wrote about at some length on the list about a year ago), part-inspiration for _The Zoo of Tranquility_, is no more! (Actually, it's moved to Southend). I'm not really surprised; it always amazed me that such an otherwordly 'business' survived so long in a location where the rent must have been astronomical. Shame, as it was one of the two 'off the beaten track' musical sights that I always encouraged London-visiting TD fans to have a look at. (The other, seeing as TD fans are usually Floyd fans, being PF's amazingly-accessible-if-you-know-where-to-look studio in Islington.) Glynn From: horrod6 Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 2:04 pm Subject: Re: what can the artist do Thanks Rainer for giving us the sensible suggestion from Klaus Schultze's example. I'd certainly prefer to have a nice clean well-recorded piece of live concert music that's been officially released than a poor quality boot. And it might be easier to get hold of too, especially if you're as cautious about buying on the net as I am. From: horrod6 Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 2:04 pm Subject: OT: For non-UK members only Craig jumped on one of his pet hates, which just happens to be one of mine too. I'm born Welsh, I was brought up in England, and now I live in Scotland. None of this involved a change of nationality. As Craig pointed out, the UK is a single country. Non-English citizens of the UK get very peeved (to put it mildly) when people speak of England as if it was the whole shebang. Having said that, the Scots law and education systems are very different from those of England and Wales. I would guess that those for N. Ireland are too, but I don't know. And now we have a Scottish Parliament and a Welsh assembly, which gives us, in part, separate legislative bodies too. But hey, different US states have their own laws too, but nobody thinks that Washington is the whole of America (do they?). But we still have one music chart. Sorry, guess somebody pressed one of my buttons there! LnH Marion np: Johannes Schmoelling - The zoo of tranquillity From: horrod6 Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 2:04 pm Subject: Invisible shadows 'Gift' Got my copy yesterday. Very interesting on first listen - definitely worth the absolutely minimal effort of sending off the e-mail and the slight risk of being added to some spammer's address list! Just wanted to say thanks to whoever put us on to this. Hey, I just thought - if we all get a copy that will use up the whole limited edition. Maybe we should leave some for the other folks? LOL See ya Marion From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 3:05 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] >CAn Attila Speaking of Can Attila, I am still searching for his second disc (W.O.W.)...I would even settle for a copy... ;^) MJ > > NP : Ave by Can Atilla - interestingly, whilst breach of copyright _is_ > illegal, plagiarism is not ... > > At the start of everything, there was this really big guy who thought to > himself, I'll make a nice, small, easily managed eco-system to study .... > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... > crjc@t... > Senior Systems Engineer > Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 > Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division > Donibristle, Fife, Scotland > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 3:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] Don't forget the opening to SHY PEOPLE...I thought I was playing WISH YOU WERE HERE! > -----Original Message----- > From: Glynn Naughton [mailto:glynnn@o...] > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2000 7:26 AM > To: 'tadream@o...' > Subject: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] > > > From: Glynn Naughton > > Hello there, > > A classic album! In which TD do their best Pink Floyd impersonation, at > least on 'Song of the Whale'. > From: Antonio Nunes Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 3:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] Glynn Naughton wrote: > > and 'Underwater Twilight' > blatantly rips of a well-known Jarre track - sorry, don't know enough about > Jarre to know the name of the track. What? Where's Glenn Folkvord when we need him? :-) Well, I admit that the first 2 minutes of 'Underwater Twilight' have a sound close to Jarre's, but not the melody. Anyway when the beat starts at around the 2 minutes mark, now this is typical TD sound of the 80's and has nothing to do with Jarre. All IMHO of course. Antonio Nunes np: Underwater Sunlight From: aoutland@a... Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 6:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Do we all like the same music? In a message dated 03/24/2000 9:42:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, craigchambers@c... writes: << Grand Funk (Closer to Home is one of the seminal radio songs from the 70's) >> Grand Funk Railroad was a stepping stone on my way to finding Tangerine Dream. I don't remember the name of the album, but the song 'Paranoia' used to send me into a trance with its long central passage. At the time I had a friend who was a disc jockey. He received lots of promo albums that he couldn't use on his rock oriented show. Knowing my love of Grand Funk, he one day handed me an album called Ricochet. The rest is history. 8-) Dell PS: regarding listening to other music: no, not very often, but I do like classical, some older rock, and some country but there's no other artist that I particularly collect. From: aoutland@a... Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 6:50 pm Subject: Re:Murder In a message dated 03/24/2000 6:11:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, tweibre361@a... writes: << << OK, fan taping is hardly in the same league as murder >> it isnt? have u ever taped a show? believe me, its murder.... tom w >> LOL, Tom you absolutely crack me up. You ought to tell some of the newer members here about some of your experiences. I recall a couple of them had me rolling under my chair. Good to see you on the list again. 8-) Dell From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Sat Mar 25, 2000 4:25 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] >Glynn Naughton wrote: >> >> and 'Underwater Twilight' >> blatantly rips of a well-known Jarre track - sorry, don't know enough about >> Jarre to know the name of the track. > >What? Where's Glenn Folkvord when we need him? :-) I am right here! :-) Unfortunately I dont have Underwater Sunlight, so I wont be able to identify which Jarre track they have ripped off (if at all). all the best, Glenn JMJ Fanclub Norway www.jmjfkn.com JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21448 Re: SV: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] Gabe Yedid Sun 3/26/2000 3 KB 21451 'Ripping Off' Glynn Naughton Sun 3/26/2000 6 KB 21449 Re: SV: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] Synthhtnys@a... Sun 3/26/2000 3 KB From: Gabe Yedid Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 2:52 am Subject: Re: SV: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] On Sat, 25 Mar 2000, Glenn Folkvord wrote: > From: 'Glenn Folkvord' > > >Glynn Naughton wrote: > >> > >> and 'Underwater Twilight' > >> blatantly rips of a well-known Jarre track - sorry, don't know enough about > >> Jarre to know the name of the track. > > > >What? Where's Glenn Folkvord when we need him? :-) > > I am right here! :-) Unfortunately I dont have Underwater Sunlight, so I wont be able to identify which Jarre track they have ripped off (if at all). > > all the best, > Glenn It's one of the parts of Equinoxe (part 3 or 4, I think) Anyhow, why is it that anytime two pieces of music with different times of origin happen to share something like a similar chord progression, it automatically makes the latter one a *ripoff* of the earlier one? In the case of 'Shy People' it's hard to deny, but in the case of 'Underwater Twilight' I think it's a bit dodgier. As another example, the chords underlying 'Running Out of Time' always struck me as being very much like the ones that can be heard in the last minute of Kraftwerk's 'Sex Object'--so does that make it a double ripoff? And again, people have called 'Logos (Red Part)' a blatant ripoff of Steve Reich's 'Music for 18 Musicians'--there is a clear and heavy Reich influence, to be sure, but it does not sound like a verbatim lift of any sections of 'MFEM', mostly because the Logos music is in a solid duple metre, while the Reich piece is '3-in-a-bar' 12/8 time pretty much the whole way through. cheers, Gabe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21451 'Ripping Off' Glynn Naughton Sun 3/26/2000 6 KB From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 4:08 am Subject: Re: SV: [tadream] D: Studio {Underwater Sunlight] << And again, people have called 'Logos (Red Part)' a blatant ripoff of Steve Reich's 'Music for 18 Musicians'--there is a clear and heavy Reich influence, to be sure, but it does not sound like a verbatim lift of any sections of 'MFEM', mostly because the Logos music is in a solid duple metre, while the Reich piece is '3-in-a-bar' 12/8 time pretty much the whole way through. cheers, Gabe >> *Interesting.... Well outside the stacatto marimba patterns I don't hear anything overtly Reich(ian)... although the American Minimalist movement was most certainly an influence on the Berlin School (Riley, Young, Reich, Glass) To my way of thinking before you blame something like'ripping off' someone's music, you should have evidence of the same chord patterns and melody....(not that you are Gabe, just to make a point) All of music is standing on the shoulders of those who came before ... It extends what has been established. The Blues and Folk traditions are based on certain already existing patterns, for instance... Actually, that is one thing I have always liked about Logos. I always considered it more of an homage to Reich, rather than a ripoff as the music is their own.... Poly Paul Ellis / Secret Fire Music Synthhtnys@a... New solo album: Appears to Vanish Member: Dweller at the Threshold http://threshold.opb.org From: 'David Foster' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 7:02 am Subject: First Contact Looks like some people enjoyed exchanging details of 'other music'. Can I suggest another thread? Chances are it's been done before, but I am newer to the list than some, so here goes. What was your first contact with TD / the music? By accident I saw them on UK tv playing a 75 Cathedral concert. I didn't take it in and it didn't really make an impression. Then someone suggested seeing this band that were playing live locally. I knew nothing else about them. March 26th 1978 I went to see them play Liverpool Empire. I think it was the second largest concert venue in the UK at the time. It was packed. It started off with very long slow cymbal rolls, slow sequencers, dry ice, Steve Jolliffe vocoder/ vocals, lasers. It was a totally new experience. I count that as the first time. It has been the longest addiction I have had, 22 years ago today. I still have the Cyclone tour poster and badge. Since then I must have been to 20 plus of their concerts. I can't go now without my daughter coming with me. I think the addiction passes through the generations. Anyone else got any stories? David fozfg@d... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21452 Re: First Contact Rainer Rutka Sun 3/26/2000 3 KB From: 'Glynn Naughton' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 12:21 pm Subject: 'Ripping Off' Gabe sez: > Anyhow, why is it that anytime two pieces of music with different times of > origin happen to share something like a similar chord progression, it > automatically makes the latter one a *ripoff* of the earlier one? > In the case of 'Shy People' it's hard to deny, but in the case of > 'Underwater Twilight' I think it's a bit dodgier. As another example, the > chords underlying 'Running Out of Time' always struck me as being very > much like the ones that can be heard in the last minute of Kraftwerk's > 'Sex Object'--so does that make it a double ripoff? > And again, people have called 'Logos (Red Part)' a blatant ripoff of > Steve Reich's 'Music for 18 Musicians'--there is a clear and heavy Reich > influence, to be sure, but it does not sound like a verbatim lift of any > sections of 'MFEM', mostly because the Logos music is in a solid duple > metre, while the Reich piece is '3-in-a-bar' 12/8 time pretty much the > whole way through. > > cheers, > > Gabe I've always found this a fascinating subject, and although I wasn't intending to kick this thread off, I'm glad I did. The crux is that rock and pop music is immensely simple, harmonically and melodically. All bands draw from the same limited musical vocabulary, although some, like Rush, add superficial surface complexity by playing in odd time signatures, etc. (Sorry if I sound like I'm pricking bubbles, but I assure you that TD and Rush use exactly the same chord sequences as the Spice Girls.) As a result, there is often overlap. The honest and unpretentious thing for pop artists to do in this case is to admit, 'Ah well, we're both using the same 3 chords, so things are bound to sound similar now and again.' Instead, we get lots of nonsense about 'stealing my artistic vision' and unnecessary court cases. A lot of this is based around the very Western concept of 'authorship'. In Balinese Gamelan music, for instance, there is little attempt by individuals to claim to be the 'composer' of a particular piece. The piece is simply an extension of a much larger tradition. One might draw a parellel between that and 12-bar blues. If I come up with a 12-bar based on the C, F and G chords, can I claim to be the 'composer' of that music? Can I fuck! I'm basically using a 'public domain' chord sequence. However, in the West I would be quite within my rights to say 'music by Glynn Naughton'. Incidentally, this is one of the things that never ceases to amaze me about early rock 'n' roll and blues records. The music consists of three chords, used in a completely standard way, yet these tracks often have four or five composers listed on the byline! What did they do, write one note each? How many of these guys would it have taken to write the 'Art of Fugue'? Paradoxically, this is why I find rock music so fascinating. I know in advance exactly what chord seqences and melodies I'm going to hear. The interest lies in the performace, the arrangement and the studio trickery: the way in which bands endlessly re-invent the same extremely limited material. This is *the* fundamental difference between popular and serious music. In serious music, the pure structure is enough to carry the day. That's why you can take immensely sophisticated music by Bach or Beethoven, play it on an incredibly bare instrument like a harpsichord, and it's still wonderful. (Or don't even play it: just read the score and admire the breathtaking complexity.) Try doing that with pop music and it sounds like shite. Pop music is fundamentally performance/arrangement driven. When you go to a classical concert, you're going to hear Beethoven's Eroica symphony or whatever; whichever orchestra is performing it is an irrelevance. (Or it should be: at the more vulgar 'Three Tenors' end of the classical spectrum there are personality cults.) In pop music, you are going to see the performer and hear *them* play the music as much as you are going for the music itself. People who listen to the classier end of the pop music spectrum (TD, Pink Floyd, Rush etc.) often delude themselves that they, unlike less sophisticated fans of more 'poppy' pop music, are in it just for the music. If this were truly the case, a tour by a Pink Floyd tribute band would fill giant sport stadiums the world over. After all, if it's just about the music, why should Gilmour, Mason and Wright need to be there? Any guitarist, drummer and keyboarder would do. So, although 'Underwater Twilight' clearly 'borrows' (to use a more polite word) from JMJ, within the context of pop music I don't think this is an issue. It's just an occupational hazard, as it were. Glynn From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] First Contact On Sun, 26 Mar 2000, David Foster wrote: > From: 'David Foster' > Looks like some people enjoyed exchanging details of 'other music'. Can I suggest another thread? Chances are it's been done before, but I am newer to the list than some, so here goes. What was your first contact with TD / the music? I remember very well. I heard radio in the mid 70ies (the 'good old radio time'). It was the Bavarian Rundfunk. A friday. Evening. The disjokey (it was Ingeborg Schober. She wrote a very good book about Amon Düül btw.) played some music by Brian Eno, Steve Hillage and an excerpt from MONOLIGHT (the single?). Tangerine Dream in BAVARIAN RADIO!! This is something we'll never get again. ;-( Well, I heard a lot of 'strange' music this time and I was a T. Rex, Sweet, Slade fan, too. And I liked jazz this time (Don Cherry, Coltrane) and hardrock (Deep Purple, Nazareth......). What I heard was unique! Something new. And: Ingeborg Schober told us all on the radios what she played. 'This was a short excerpt from the new live double lp by Tangerine Dream. The track is called MONOLIGHT'! Rest is history (the run began). So, it was the 'fault' of Ingeborg Schober why I'm a dreamaholic since '77. Thank you Ingeborg whereever you are! Rainer rainer@k... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ingeborg's fault: www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: tweibre361@a... Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 436 In a message dated 3/26/00 3:25:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, tadream@o... writes: << LOL, Tom you absolutely crack me up. You ought to tell some of the newer members here about some of your experiences. I recall a couple of them had me rolling under my chair. Good to see you on the list again. 8-) Dell >> they are not technically 'experiences'...more like memorex (or tdk or maxell) moments... tom w np: some damn live TD From: 'Darrin Ballman' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 3:21 pm Subject: re: first contact Being new to the list, here goes: I was probably one of many that was first exposed to TD through seeing Risky Business. I was introduced to Jarre a couple years earlier, and naturally some of the TD music caught my ear. I saw Tangerine Dream on the credits and figured I'd buy something of theirs, and check them out. So I did the only logical thing you could do get an overview, and so I bought the 70-80 box set as my first purchase!! Been addicted ever since - no desire for rehab....Fortunate enough to see them in LA, 86- Universal Amp. and 88 - at the Wiltern and Irvine Meadows. Re: some other threads... Taping - Personally I ascribe to the Grateful Dead model, wide open, free exchange, forget paying $20 for a crappy bootleg when you can get it for free...and support the band you love so much by purchasing what they release, small price to pay for a life time of good times Listening to: TD, Grateful Dead, Jorma Kaukonen/Hot Tuna, Clannad, Phil Keaggy, Sarah McLachlan, Capercaille, David Lanz, Michelle Nordeman, Concrete Blonde, Strawbs -Darrin drballman@q... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Jeffrey Au Yeung' <220Volt@i...> Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 4:12 pm Subject: Off-topic: The Orb Hi all The Orb will play a concert here in Hong Kong on April's Fool (10pm to 4am). Anybody has any experience with their gigs? Any comment/opinion? Jeffrey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21477 Re: Off-topic: The Orb Sean Montgomery Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: Scribe1964@a... Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] re: first contact I think this is a great topic. My first exposure was the movie 'Sorcerer.' I stayed up late one night to watch it on HBO. I think this was in 1980 or so. I loved the movie, but the music was a revelation. Of course, no one I knew had heard of this band (I'm sure that's a common thing!). But that added to the exciting feeling that I was discovering something new. Not long after that, I saw 'Thief,' then bought the soundtrack to that film. And about twenty years later, I'm sitting here waiting for Soundmill Navigator!!! Scribe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21461 Re: re: first contact Feldon Feldon Sun 3/26/2000 4 KB 21480 Re: re: first contact Sean Montgomery Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB 21486 Re: re: first contact craig.cordrey@g... Tue 3/28/2000 3 KB 21489 re: first contact Patrik . Tue 3/28/2000 2 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 4:45 pm Subject: [tadream] Chia Maroon Hi all, Can anyone out there who has the 'Dream Dice' box set please confirm if the extra track 'Chia Maroon' is on the version of 'Oasis' included in this box set. Thanks Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21459 Re: Chia Maroon Michael A Jean Sun 3/26/2000 3 KB 21485 Re: Chia Maroon Steven Feldman Tue 3/28/2000 2 KB 21463 Re: Chia Maroon quarlie@a... Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: PENFOLD Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 7:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Other music... my €0.02 Devo Beatles Queen ELO Pink Floyd Walter/Wendy Carlos Einsturzende Neubauten P.D.Q. Bach Jean-Michel Jarre & of course TD Pete Isaacson DJ DreamHead mailto:penfold@a... Saw copy of _The Keep_ LP, held it in his hands, but didn't have the $ 'We throw each piece of equipment three times out of the third floor of our studio complex. If it's still functioning properly, we'll take it on the road. If not, we send it back to Tokyo!...' -- Edgar Froese, on the way Tangerine Dream decides on which instruments to take on the road. From an interview in _Keyboard_ magazine. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 7:54 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Chia Maroon I don't have the DD box, but I am pretty sure it only appears on the US release... MJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Fellows [mailto:pfellows@c...] > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 10:45 AM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] Chia Maroon > > > From: 'Paul Fellows' > > Hi all, > > Can anyone out there who has the 'Dream Dice' box set please > confirm if the > extra track 'Chia Maroon' is on the version of 'Oasis' included > in this box > set. > > Thanks > > Paul > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/937/3/_/24785/_/954089099/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21485 Re: Chia Maroon Steven Feldman Tue 3/28/2000 2 KB From: 'twosheds' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 8:28 pm Subject: Re: First contact >Looks like some people enjoyed exchanging details of 'other music'. Can I suggest another thread? >Chances are it's been done before, but I am newer to the list than some, so here goes. What was your first >contact with TD / the music? Good thread! I first _heard_ of them in '77 when they came to Cleveland for the first time. Unfortunately, I was only 10. They had a funny name, so I remembered them. Then a friend of mine rented The Soldier around fall of 83 or so. He said it had really cool music and he wanted me to check it out. I saw the name 'Tangerine Dream' in the credits and said 'Yeah! I've heard of them.' We went up to the head shop/record store at the mall and I got Phaedra on vinyl and was hooked. Soon after, we found Hyperborea in the same store, flipped it over, and saw it was recorded in August '83, which was mere months earlier. We both exclaimed 'August '83?!?!' and bought it. Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21491 Re: First contact horrod6 Tue 3/28/2000 3 KB 21558 Re: First contact Chris Richards Sat 4/1/2000 6 KB From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 9:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] re: first contact My first TD experience was the movie Miracle Mile. I was 14 then and didn't know much about music, so other than knowing the soundtrack was by TD, I didn't do much with that knowledge until I was 17 and found someone with a tape of the soundtrack. My next exposure was Turn of the Tides, which at the time, I really liked (it's still a *decent* album) and that, along with 220 Volt and Rockoon helped me through some tough times. Then I got shocked by Electronic Meditation. I didn't touch anything pre-1985 for a while because of that. I wandered back in time, grabbing Logos and instantly falling in love, likewise with Phaedra, Poland 2CD, and Force Majeure. Tangram and Encore took me more than one listen to get into, as did White Eagle. Rubycon and Ricochet didn't come until later and I think they're great. Most of my CDs disappeared shortly after this. (I had them in one of those Case Logic cases and I don't know where it went, probably stolen). Then my car stereo was stolen and of course, an original of Ratikon was inside it, after my having only heard half of it. And my CD changer walked away with an original of Tangerine Ambience II in it (this is the only missing disc I have yet to replace). Suffice it to say, I keep most of my Tangerine Dream in mp3 form and keep several copies of everything safe. I did end up going out and re-buying a fair amount of my collection, including that interesting 'Disky' compilation of Phaedra. I've owned 2-3 copies of Logos and Dream Mixes I too. Anyways, that about wraps it up, I guess. I did run out and get the Private Music of TD compilation, as well as several other 1988-1999 albums but have been mostly disappointed, and after seeing their musical genius pre-1987, my love for their post-1987 stuff has slipped. Tragic, I know. Other than 220 Volt, Flashflood and Waterbourne from Oasis, Firetongues from Turn of the Tides, the remixed tracks on Dream Mixes I, the last track on Dream Mixes I import disc 2 (this also walked away with the CD changer... DAMN IT!), some of Timesquare, and some of Mars Polaris, I pretty much fit into the 1974-1987 obsessives category who think TD permanently downshifted after Livemiles was released. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Mar 26, 2000 9:21 pm Subject: Discussion Week 28 - Sunday 26th March 2000 This week brings us to the 'controversial' studio album TYGER. Please make your subject read 'D:Studio [Tyger]' when posting comments or reviews. Regards Lawry Simm PS - sorry that this reminder is a little late... just been to the 7th Alfa Centauri festival in the Netherlands. Subscribe to beyond_em@o... if you want to read my report! lawrysimm@u... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: quarlie@a... Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 3:01 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Chia Maroon In a message dated 3/26/00 11:45:35 AM, 'Paul Fellows' writes: >Can anyone out there who has the 'Dream Dice' box set please confirm if >the extra track 'Chia Maroon' is on the version of 'Oasis' included in this >box set. Yes, the bonus track is included. --Daniel NP: Massive Attack--Mezzanine From: 'David Foster' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 5:25 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffrey Au Yeung <220Volt@i...> To: Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2000 5:12 PM Subject: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb > From: 'Jeffrey Au Yeung' <220Volt@i...> > > Hi all > > The Orb will play a concert here in Hong Kong on April's Fool (10pm to 4am). Anybody has any experience with their gigs? Any comment/opinion? > > Jeffrey > Dear Jeffrey My experience of seeing The Orb, last time they played Liverpool was that they had a load os support acts, they came on stage with little announcement and played a mixture of old nd new like TD do with new gaps in between. The light show / stage set was more original than the average band. The sound is loud. At that gig I was offered Ecstasy by a fan. Which caused my mates much amusement, considering I am a lawyer/attorney! And no, I didn't accept, before anyone asks. David fozdg@d... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21990 Re: Off-topic: The Orb David Foster Sun 4/16/2000 3 KB 21993 Re: Off-topic: The Orb Jeffrey Au Yeung Sun 4/16/2000 6 KB From: Chris Richards Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 9:06 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 437 <> Actually, you're completely wrong. Having recently spent a great deal of time in the last couple years on the classical boards on both AOL and Prodigy (in both it's Internet and now defunct Classic guises), and have found that there are people who, just as you or may I differentiate between different guitarists or synthesists, there are those who have have favorite conductors, composers, and musicians in the classical field. If you say, for instance, the Cleveland Orchestra is performing Bartok's Violin Concerto this Sunday, with Pierre Boulez conducting and Itzhak Pearlman will be the soloists, the audience will break down in several categories: 1. Those who go to see the orchestra once a week, regardless of what's on the program. 2. Those who are going, because they are Bartok afficiandos. 3. Those who are Boulez afficiandos, and therefore attend any Cleveland Orchestra performance (or whichever orchestra they are able to attend) when he appears. 4. Those who are Pearlman afficiandos, and therefore there to hear Mr. Pearlman play. And of course, there is overlap in all of those areas. If you go to a classical board online, and say 'What is the best recording of the Mahler symphonies', you will get a dozen or more answers, each one as often as not, completely different. And you frequently get answers such as: 'Well, for the first symphony, I'd go with the 57 recording of Bernstein conducting the NY Phil, while the second one I like Boulez conducting the Chicago Symphony from 78, etc'. To say the performers involved in a classical performance are immaterial, therefore, would be rather incorrect. Maybe I personally can't distinguish the subtle differences between a piano piece with Sviastlav Richter a the soloist or the same piece performed by Glenn Gould, but there are those who do and are frequently very specific about the issue. NP: Miles Davis 'Country Son' (Miles In The Sky) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21469 Re: Digest Number 437 tweibre361@a... Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB 21475 Re: Digest Number 437 tweibre361@a... Mon 3/27/2000 2 KB From: Chris Richards Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 9:17 am Subject: Re: Off Topic: The Orb Live <> I 'saw' them a couple years ago and was very disappointed. For one thing, there were numerous DJ's on the bill, with The Orb as the headliners. Each DJ would come on, do his/her set, and as they left the stage, their gear was carried off as a new artist (or whatever you wanna call em) came on and took over, with no announcement as to who was who or exactly WHEN The Orb was coming on, or anything. The only indication that The Orb's set had actually begun was when someone stepped into the space ship at the center of the stage and films appeared on the sides of the ship (actually, it was one film, shown on four different screens at once). Eventually, 'they' hit on familiar themes (like Blue Room) that I recognised, but never once was I ever sure that I was actually hearing live music. For all I know, Alex Patterson (who basically IS The Orb, everyone else being whichever collaborators he chooses to work with at any given moment) wasn't even in the building (or indeed, he could have not even had bothered travelling to the US for this trip) as the performance took place. At the very least, a great deal of sequencing was being used virtually all the time. Also, they had these lights that moved around, and no matter where you stood in the audience, the lights would managed to hit you square in the eyes every 10 seconds. Overall, I found it a rather unenjoyable performance. Maybe I was just expecting too much of the conventional concert thing (ya know, actual live musicians). ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: TomX01@a... Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 10:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Ripping Off' I watched thief last night and I couldnt help but notice the similarity between the music over the last scene and Pink Floyds Comfortably Numb. Its easy to accuse TD of ripping off over artists, but at the end of the day the Director probably says 'Hey, do something like this' ... so they do. Thats their job. best regards Tom (Melrose) From: 'Christopher Lomas' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 11:38 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Other music >As far as the initial entries are concerned, I was a folkie long before I >was introduced to EM. In my defence, there is at least one other Fairport >Convention freak on this list (at the time of writing) ... Make that two. I too was a bit of a folky before TD wove their magic (it was seeing The Keep that did it for me), and I still make the annual pilgrimage to Cropredy. As for other stuff that I listen to - if anybody's remotely interested Lots of prog rock: IQ Yes Genesis Van der Graf Generator Flower Kings Spocks Beard Rush Timothy Pure etc etc Folky stuff: Fairport Mr Richard Thompson Clannad Small dismembered bits of jazz Some classical - Vaughan Williams & Holst particularly Even some pop if I'm feeling very open minded! And, of course an ever growing range of EM: Schulze RMI Arcane Air Sculpture JMJ Neuronium etc And, of course, my other fave band Jethro Tull ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: tweibre361@a... Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 12:17 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 437 In a message dated 3/27/00 3:30:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, tadream@o... writes: << The Orb will play a concert here in Hong Kong on April's Fool (10pm to 4am). Anybody has any experience with their gigs? Any comment/opinion? >> tape it.... tom w np: orb ny 97 From: 'Thomas' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 12:34 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] 'Ripping Off' > From: TomX01@a... > > > I watched thief last night and I couldnt help but notice the similarity > between the music over the last scene and Pink Floyds Comfortably Numb. Its > easy to accuse TD of ripping off over artists, but at the end of the day the > Director probably says 'Hey, do something like this' ... so they do. Thats > their job. > > best regards > > Tom (Melrose) Are you referring to the guitar based rock instrumental track? If so you'll have to blaim a guy named Craig Safan, because he's the one who wrote it. Can't really think of anything else on that record that sounds like 'Comfortably Numb'. This track was btw only available on the US LP on the Elektra label. Thomas Helsingborg, Sweden From: 'teiwaz _' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 1:18 pm Subject: a tour by a Pink Floyd tribute >a tour by a Pink Floyd tribute band would fill giant sport stadiums the world over. After all, if it's just about the music, why should Gilmour, Mason and Wright need to be there? Any guitarist, drummer and keyboarder would do. Egads, I guess that's why I'm going to see Roger Water's Band. --twz np Roger Waters Quebec 1987 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'teiwaz _' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 1:36 pm Subject: RE: 'Ripping Off' Lemme get this straight. So if Tangerine Dream sounds like JMJ then it's 'borrowing', but if it sounds like Steve Reich (a modern classical composer), then it's 'Ripping Off'? Or is it that Music for 18 Musicians borrows from Gamelan?... --teiwaz (confused and looking forward to seeing Music for 18 Musicians live with Steve Reich and the SF symphony) np The Orb--Little Fluffy Clouds ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Patrick L' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 2:48 pm Subject: Ripping off Hi there, To me the interesting thing is all those TD rip-offs by TD! 'Where have I heard this before? Wait a minute, isn´t this from....Optical Race...no it must be Underwater Sunlight?' Do you know what I mean? But you never really get it. The Dream is always the same. Variation on themes... Maybe this is what Tangerine Dream is all about? Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden From: aslanfan1@a... Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 3:15 pm Subject: Tyger The great half album. The instrumental tracks are great, but the ones with vocals are less than I expected after the excellent Underwater Sunlight. I like what Paul Haslinger brought to TD, and Alchemy of the Heart is wonderful. But London and Tyger are really mediocre. TD does not have good success merging vocals with their music, in my opinion. IF anyone has heard both versions of Tyger, there is a clear winner. The re-release version drums sounded terrible. And if I recall, when I bought the record, there was one more track on the album than listed on the jacket. Overall, it's just a fair album, but Alchemy of the Heart makes the CD worth the price of admission alone. Still, after Underwater Sunlight's remarkable beauty, this CD was always a letdown for me. -Alan Cox From: tweibre361@a... Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 437 In a message dated 3/27/00 03:30:49 Eastern Standard Time, tadream@o... writes: << The Orb will play a concert here in Hong Kong on April's Fool (10pm to 4am). Anybody has any experience with their gigs? Any comment/opinion? >> tape it! tom w np: the orb in nyc 97 From: 'joe shoults' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 3:53 pm Subject: tadream admin message: bouncing e-mails hey folks- tadream subscribers are automatically placed into the 'bouncing' status after three consecutive days of undeliverable email. onelist/eGroups stops attempting to deliver messages to these members after three days of bouncing messages. If any of the addresses below are an alternate/old address for you, or if you know to whom they belong, please let me know: BERNHARD.KRETZ@V... elmuzyka@h... gaetanblais@a... Heathpow@a... mike-jr@j... mike5599@y... partymatte@h... tangents@b... tomm@e... thanks, joe From: Sean Montgomery Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 5:36 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb > The Orb will play a concert here in Hong Kong on April's Fool (10pm to 4am). Anybody > has any experience with their gigs? Any comment/opinion? I saw them play on a double bill with the Chemical Brothers about four years ago, and quite enjoyed it. They emphasized the more danceable side of their music, which was appropriate given that they were playing in large dance clubs. The light show and projected visuals were nice eye candy. The only complaint I had is that they would get great head-bobbing grooves going and then abandon them too soon...not unlike recent TD, actually! I'd recommend going though...especially since this show will be a long one. It's bound to be more ambient and spacey. Hopefully Mr. Patterson won't be *totally* stoned. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 5:54 pm Subject: Alfa Centauri 7 Report. By request, I'm sending this to Tadream... slightly off topic I suppose, but no worse than some of the stuff lately. You may see pics (and put some names to some faces you may be familiar with if you visit www.thisolehouse.freeserve.co.uk/alfa7 but beware that the whole page loads and is just under 1MB. Regards, Lawry ---------------------------- Well, I'm back from Amsterdam, and as ever, a good time was had by all. Well, by me at least. For those not in the know (where have you been?) the concert was supposed to feature Mind~Flux, Pyramid Peak, Radio Massacre International, Robert Rich, Patrick Kosmos and Wave World. I say 'supposed to' because Mind~Flux did not actually turn up. So, instead of doing 3 mini sets upstairs, Pyramid Peak took Mind~Flux's place as the opening act on the main stage downstairs. I must say that I found their set rather boring. The highlight was when they were joined on stage by Cosmic Kaufmann for one track. This was easily the best of the set, but not at all difficult. Although the music was ok, I found the lack of sound dynamics quite disappointing. They used pretty much the same synth sounds and the same key throughout (well, it seemed that way). After about 20 minutes they actually changed key, but to my ears, it was completely the _wrong_ key to change to. It did absolutely nothing for the music. Next up were RMI. Of course, I only saw them 2 weeks ago at JB and got a pleasant surprise, so I was looking forward to their set. It was pretty much the same as JB, except that they were much more 'showbiz', Steve doing his best to look like a Zebra in his natty 70's look black and white coat. I did however notice that this set was not quite so crisp as it was at JB. On one or two occasions they had far too much going on at one time, and the sounds turned into a jumbled mess. Still, well worth sitting through. Even Jens nearly managed to make it the whole way through! :-) Robert Rich was next. Talk about boring. Well, actually, no - I won't. Only to say that I personally found this to be utter s***e. Well, what I heard anyway. I fell asleep after 10 minutes, woke up again after another 20, and promptly extricated myself from the crowd and headed off to find the rest of our 'crew', 2 of which only managed to listen to 5 seconds worth of RR! Next was probably the highlight for me. The socialising aspect! This year 7 of us made it to the Chinese restaurant. Myself, Jens, Marcel, Otso, Jari, Tom, and Tom's friend Geert. It was a good laugh, degenerating at times to a 'take the piss out of each other's language' session. The food was good. Which was nice. (Photos to be uploaded later - need to charge up my camera before I can offload the pics). I think the best bit about these events is getting to interact with people in real time. I also got to meet Ruud (hi! :-) for the first time. Not at all how I thought he looked! :-) And hi to the other people I also met..... Back to the theatre then, for the Patrick Kosmos concert. Again I had never heard any of this guys stuff, and having never seen him I must admit that when I entered the concert hall (15 minutes late) I thought the guy had no legs. It turns out that he was just sitting on the floor with his synths around him.... strange chap. He seemed a thoroughly nice bloke though. Chatted and interacted well with the audience. Unfortunately, his music, though enjoyable in parts, was not really my cup of tea. Still glad to have seen/heard him though. Finally was Wave World. F**k me rigid - what a spectacle. This seemed more about the 'performance' than the music. The guys came on stage in huge brown hooded cloaks, like giant Jawa. They were jabbering in some alien language (their set being billed as a journey to an alien world via music and graphics). The video projection behind them was at times stunning. I found their presentation wholly unique. They stayed in character throughout the concert (the hoods came off eventually to reveal heavily made up 'alien' heads). The music was very ambient / space oriented, so again was not my cup of tea, but the visuals held the interest enough for me to stay - at least until I hat to leave to get the train. Overall, these guys were the more 'professional' and certainly an experience. My only purchases were the two Arcane CD's, (listening to the first one now, and this _is_ my cup of tea. In fact it is ace. So there. Last point of note was bumping into Paul Nagle in the streets of Amsterdam on this morning... he never made it to the festival (surprise) and in fact seemed a bit surprised that it was Sunday already! :-) Would that be about right Paul? I'm not quite sure whose tree Paul was in this morning, but it sure wasn't his! :-) Well, that's all for now. Photo upload later..... Lawry lawrysimm@u... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: Rainer Rutka Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Voices / Solar Eclipse On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Richard Ford wrote: > From: Richard Ford Hi Richard! Just wanted to send the CD. Unfortunately you didn't posted your postal address in your last emails. So I can't send it ;-( Please! I need your address! have fun.... Rainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Sean Montgomery Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 6:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] re: first contact > I think this is a great topic. My first exposure was the movie 'Sorcerer.' > I stayed up late one night to watch it on HBO. This reminds me...I saw Sorcerer on T.V. last week for the first time, and was surprised at how well the music actually fit the film. The flutey mellotron parts actually sound a bit like the mouth pipes used in South American music. I'd never thought of this until I heard it together with images of the rainforest. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21486 Re: re: first contact craig.cordrey@g... Tue 3/28/2000 3 KB From: 'Miguel Farah F.' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 6:49 pm Subject: Re: Do we all like the same music? Here's my favorite music, in no particular order: Rush Genesis - Steve Hackett King Crimson Gentle Giant Tangerine Dream Dream Theater ELP Camel Spock's Beard Which Tangerine Dream period is my favorite should be perfectly obvious. -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel@w... #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> 'Trust me - I know what I'm doing.' - Sledge Hammer Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21498 Re: Do we all like the same music? jjoy Wed 3/29/2000 3 KB From: 'Tin' Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 10:00 pm Subject: R: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb Hi Jeffrey i'm Marco from Italy...My girlfriend have bought Electronic orgy and Prayer of.... by you... I saw the Orb concert in Milano in 1996-97 , i don't very impresed me!!!They didn't play never instruments( i don't saw some instruments controlled by computer and few mixers) the music was very miscellaneous of Orb repertoir!!!!20$ was the tickets!!!!! If you are very fans of them!!! -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Jeffrey Au Yeung <220Volt@i...> A: tadream@o... Data: domenica 26 marzo 2000 18.09 Oggetto: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb >From: 'Jeffrey Au Yeung' <220Volt@i...> > >Hi all > >The Orb will play a concert here in Hong Kong on April's Fool (10pm to 4am). Anybody has any experience with their gigs? Any comment/opinion? > >Jeffrey > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Free Cool Black Virgin T-shirt with ANY order at virginmega.com! >http://click.egroups.com/1/2625/3/_/24785/_/954086961/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... >Website: http://www.tadream.net > > From: 'Jeffrey Au Yeung' <220Volt@i...> Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 11:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb + Air Thanks David, Chris, Sean (Hi!!), Tin (Hello!) for the comments. I probably will see them this weekend. The flyer I have showed them as 2 guys plus guests so it might be the same situation like Chris described. Anyway, I hope this will turn out a surprise. BTW I noticed Air has a soundtrack album out. Forgot the title but reads something like 'Woman Suicides' (?). Any comment on that too? Sean? Conrad? 8-) Jeffrey Few minutes before another trip to China ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean Montgomery To: tadream@o... Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb From: Sean Montgomery > The Orb will play a concert here in Hong Kong on April's Fool (10pm to 4am). Anybody > has any experience with their gigs? Any comment/opinion? I saw them play on a double bill with the Chemical Brothers about four years ago, and quite enjoyed it. They emphasized the more danceable side of their music, which was appropriate given that they were playing in large dance clubs. The light show and projected visuals were nice eye candy. The only complaint I had is that they would get great head-bobbing grooves going and then abandon them too soon...not unlike recent TD, actually! I'd recommend going though...especially since this show will be a long one. It's bound to be more ambient and spacey. Hopefully Mr. Patterson won't be *totally* stoned. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://www.tadream.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21484 Re: Off-topic: The Orb + Air Sean Montgomery Tue 3/28/2000 2 KB From: Sean Montgomery Date: Mon Mar 27, 2000 11:52 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off-topic: The Orb + Air > BTW I noticed Air has a soundtrack album out. Forgot the title but reads something > like 'Woman Suicides' (?). Any comment on that too? Sean? Conrad? 8-) That would be The Virgin Suicides. I haven't heard all of it; just the 6 or 7 mp3s I've downloaded. But what I've heard is pretty good. Very 70s, in a Pink Floyd/10 CC kind of way. Not as immediately enagaging as Moon Safari though. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: Steven Feldman Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:21 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Chia Maroon On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:54:59 -0600 Michael A Jean said: >From: 'Michael A Jean' > >I don't have the DD box, but I am pretty sure it only appears on the US >release... That's what *I* thought, too, until I got a TDI copy with 'Chia Maroon' on it (TDI CD009). -- Steven Feldman From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 8:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] re: first contact >> I think this is a great topic. My first exposure was the movie 'Sorcerer.' >> I stayed up late one night to watch it on HBO. My postman delivered a 'package' to me at the weekend (Thanks again, you) and had been told by a mutaul friend that I was into music. 'What kind?' he asked. 'Electronic music' I replied. He looked a little baffled. 'Oh no, I like blues just now' he says. 'Tangerine Dream', I explain. Suddenly the light goes on. 'Oh, I love Rubycon' he says, 'one of my favourite albums ever.' Then he continues, 'And the film with the lorry going through the jungle, with the dynamite in the back, and the bridge'. 'Sorceror' I tell him. 'Right, yeah, that's great too'. Another one of the 'they're still around?!?!?!' brigade. -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rainer Rutka Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 10:23 am Subject: Solar Eclipse sended. Last copies available. Hi! Sorry, but I posted this to the mailing list, because it's simple and faster. I posted the first bulk of the Solar Eclipse CDs today to everybody who did a 'reservation' and posted their addresses (most of the guys didn't!). All in all 16 packages and 150 DM for the damm. post! Be carefull: The amount on the german stamps are in Pfennig (these are the german cents) not in DM! So, '500' means 5 DM = $ 2.50 and _not_ 500 DM ($250). The german post is expensise but not this way. I have 6 more reservations. Unfortunately without the postal addresses. Only Email. (Is this so complicate?) If I didn't get the address until end of the week I sell (or trade) these CD, too. And: I have some more (but not much!!!) CD available! This is your last chance to get it. If it's gone - it's gone. The price is $8 for the disk and the package. Plus the postage. The postage is different. To the U.S. I'm paying between 10 DM ($5) and 16 DM ($8) if I send it by airmail. Sometimes the postage is more expensive as the disk ;-( That means: One disk to the US will cost approx. $16 or less! And don't make money with this. It's just the price I payed! See: www.rutka.de/td -> NEW -> Solar Ecliplse Rainer AND PLEASE: Send me your address if you want a disk. It helps me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Rainer Rutka E-Mail : rainer@k... Griesseggstrasse 27 D Telefon : +49 (0)7531 29842 D-78462 Konstanz Fax : +49 (0)7531 29879 Germany/Deutschland - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 12:27 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] OT: Other music Since everyone's spilling the beans here... My favourite artists, as they are at the moment and have been for a while. Tangerine Dream Jethro Tull Tori Amos They Might Be Giants Chris Franke Klaus Schulze Julian Cope Frank Black Jean Michel Jarre Anne Clark (roughly in order, averaging over albums) I'm also quite fond of 1980s electro-pop music and the slightly more mainstream proponents of punk rock. And, contrary to some contemporaries, I'm not finding the current pop music scene too bleak at all. But let's get back to on-topic subjects... Dennis From: 'Patrik .' Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 8:12 pm Subject: [tadream] re: first contact My first encounter with Tangerine Dream was springtime in 1979. A friend of mine played Coldwater Canyon. And he played it really loud!! I believe the guitar is being wired through a vocoder and/or a talkbox. I´ve never ever heard a sound like this before... So from there on I started the Dream journey. Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Szatmari, Pal' Date: Fri Jul 28, 2000 12:02 pm Subject: D: Studio Tyger Although I prefer the non-vocal TD albums, I have nothing against Tyger. I think Jocelyn did a great job in interpreting the Blake poems. Her voice is unique and she uses it appropriately. Some of the fans who detest this album may reject the very idea of TD 'songs' (I wonder when we will hear Edgar or Jerome belt out a REAL TD song i.e. when they DON'T hire a singer hehehe). These fans may argue that lyrics distract their attention, which can be true, but in the case of TD the few lyrics they sometimes use are important: they are supposed to distract you in a way. TD lyrics are not like 'What am I supposed to do? Sit around and wait for you? Well, I can't do that...there's no turning back' :)), which is OK in a disco on a hot summer night... Let's get back to Tyger. It is not the vocals that bothers me, it is rather the baroque harpsicord tunes (I think they are the results of Haslinger's Viennese education). But they fit the time of the Blake poems I guess so it is OK. When I first heard Tyger, the track, it reminded me of ABBA especially the repeated chorus at the end of the track. And I went 'COOL...' I am a great ABBA fan :)) I have listened to Tyger so many times, I cannot talk about it objectively. London is more interesting because it is more varied. Again, the vocals are evocative, match the poems very well. It is the favourite track of a friend of mine, who is also a video artist and usually listens to jazz or alternative rock. I must add that I use the Tyger tracks in my work: I teach English, and as part of the curriculum, I teach the students some poems, so the album comes very handy because I can even play them to the students (I wish TD would do a Poe album, too hehehe). In my opinion the album is well rounded and has a certain balance between vocal and instrumental parts; short and long tracks. I like the bonus tracks on the CD too (the live version is even better on 20th Century Serenades). Thanks to TD, I rediscovered Blake. We had studied Tyger in Literature back in high school but I quickly forgot about the 'British rebel'. When TD came out with Tyger, it made me read more and more of his poems and strange prose. He was a real dreamer... :) As I have already pointed it out in an earlier post, I think William Blake would be a TD fan if he lived in our time (or he would have founded Tangerine Dream itself....Is Edgar a reincarnation of WB??? - new thread hehehe). n.p. nothing (Tyger has just finished) p.s. Save the Siberian Tiger!!! Pal From: horrod6 Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 6:08 pm Subject: Re: First contact Another interesting thread! I'm going to do an Al Benson, and clip the story from another e-mail, with a few modifications - so Frank, if you think you've seen this before, you're right! I was introduced to TD by a housemate in the mid-seventies. As far as I can remember, he had Phaedra and Rubycon and one other. I was intrigued by the covers, then grew to love the music, especially when stoned. Unfortunately, the other two people in the house (his girlfriend and my boyfriend) weren't so keen. When the various members of the household went their different ways, I forgot all about TD (heresy!) In the early eighties I separated from my first husband (the boyfriend of the previous paragraph), and sort of started all over again as a teenager, building a new record collection, dating, trying out new kinds of food, changing my style of dressing and so on. There was a great place near my new flat - a kind of 'head shop' selling books, unusual clothes, ethnic jewelry, records and with a chess cafe upstairs. I lived in the place - the people you met in the cafe were so interesting, and they didn't mind if you sat for an hour with a cup of tea and the newspaper. I found some TD amongst the records they were selling, and remembered how much I'd enjoyed my friend's records in the past, bought a few (the ones I knew), bought a few more (Hyperborea was one of the earlier purchases, which came as a bit of a surprise, being so different from the stuff I knew)... and here I am, many years later, with a medium-sized but far from complete collection. (I only buy one version of things - hell, it's the music that counts for me, and I get them in record shops, so there's a limit to what's obtainable.) From: 'Todd Tornow' Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 8:19 pm Subject: Okefenokee Swamp Greetings: I live about three hours from the Okefenokee and have been there two or three times. Some things I would like to point out before everyone goes there. If you forget something and want to go to a convenience store to get it, you are about one hour away from NOWHERE. So, make sure you have everything you need with you, or else it is a long trip to Lake City, Florida, for a toothbrush. Also, in transit off the interstate to and from the swamp, remember that you are traveling through rural south Georgia (and a bit of Florida if you are approaching from the south). Obey the speed limits or else you will understand what ‘Southern Justice’ means. What are worse are the small shacks on the side of the road staffed by some dudes with bad attitudes who enforce the hunting regulations. I have no idea where they get some of these people or who they work for. But on the way out of the area, if you have a truck (not a car), you MUST stop so they can check under the ash tray for an illegal deer that you just poached. To deal with these individuals, it is ‘yes sir’, ‘no sir’, and ‘have a good day sir’. Also, if they ask you what you are doing in the area, tell them the straight truth. Remember above all, they do not have a sense of humor! As expected, the dudes that work the late morning/afternoon shift are much easier to deal with than the dudes that work the early AM hours before the crack of dawn. Therefore, if it is 3 AM and it can wait for the morning hours, I highly recommend that you delay your trip to Lake City till the daytime. I know they have one of these ‘check points’ on the way south to Lake City. I approached the entrance from the east about ten years ago and did not run into one of these ‘check points’ there. But, that was ten years ago. I have no idea if they have these ‘storm troopers’ posted on the routs to the swamp from the west or the north. I have never been in those two areas relative to the swamp. * * * The Swamp Itself * * * You have to do something very stupid to get yourself hurt. We have been in a drought for about three years now so the water level should be low. But there probably will be a fire danger so be careful where you drop that match after you light your cigarette. The park rangers and tourist guides can tell you several stories of people who took their cute little manicured poodles down to the boat landing to get a close look at the alligator that frequented the dock area. Needless to say, they became an easy meal for the 'gator. Therefore, if you are going to bring ‘Fluffy’, you MUST keep it on a leash or else it will be digested by the local mascot! Surprisingly, the bugs were not that bad when we were there. Bring the bug spray in spite of this observation. Todd E. Tornow Tallahassee, Florida ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Jordi J.' Date: Tue Mar 28, 2000 11:26 pm Subject: Mars Polaris 'error' Hello! The people of Dock (distribution of TDI in Spain) to have some copies of 'bad' versión of Mars Polaris. 5 songs are in 'Great Wall of China'. The address is: michael@d... Error of part of cd´s of 'Mars Polaris'? I only to have this version. 11 songs and 60 minutes. The good versión is 71 min. and 10 songs. The cover back list is 10 songs. Is very strange!! Grettings! Jordi Jiménez Barcelona-Spain From: 'cinemafan' Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 2:23 am Subject: Tyger, Tyger Tyger Tyger burning bright.......... Smash Smash Crinkle Snap. Thank goodness they never went there again.... Snicker snicker. Sorry guys This just came up on the CD changer. I must remove it now........ Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'joe shoults' Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:38 am Subject: D: Studio [tyger] I actually don't own Tyger, but I have Book of Dreams, which has Alchemy of the Heart, London part 1 (The Dungeon Cry), London part 2 (Rotten Row Patriot), & Tyger (Jungle Myster Song), comprising about 26 and 1/2 minutes. The first time I heard it- and for a while afterwards- I had mixed feelings about this album. I am not alone; Tyger has provoked a lot of discussion in the past. Most people who like it now say they didn't at first, but it grew on them, as it did me: ALCHEMY (all instrumental) When I first heard all of Alchemy, I said, 'OK, this is good...kinda a progression out of Underwater Sunlight...in that same vein, and in retrospect, still not hearing a huge Haslinger influence... I like it!' LONDON PART 1 (vocals by Jocelyn Smith) Then on London Part 1, at 1:00, there came this New York Artsy-Fartsy sounding poetry reading stuff. It evoked in me associations with the kind of people who are always pretentious, wear black all the time and think they have this intellectual thing going that the rest of the world can't possibly comprehend- and they're probably right, because I just didn't get it. I had no idea about the Blake thing; it just sounded weird... I thought, 'OK... different...it has it's moments'. But I probably wouldn't play it for anybody else. The music was definitely TD, but this chick had to go... LONDON PART 2 Then, London part 2, all instrumental, definitely solidified the conection to Underwater Su8nlight with its instrumentation and overall feel. Edgar(?) comes in for the short guitar(real or synth?) solo around 3:10, and as the song ends, I think parts of this song would be great music for a movie. TYGER There's that chick again. But wait, this time, she's singing. Hmmm... nice clear voice. not too pretentious this time. Bells in the background are a nice compliment to her voice. Still, not knowing about Blake, these lyrics were way too inaccessible to me. But wait! There's a little booklet I hadn't read yet. Of course, it explained it, and having a browser handy, I looked up Blake and learned a bit. OHHH, so it *IS* poetry! So this is SUPPOSED to sound like this. Then I was impressed: they had adapted the words to music quite well, allthings considered. ...And whaddya know- she's from New York after all! But before I had a real chance to acclimate myself to it, I lent it to a friend, and didn't see it again for months. The thing is, I had the Tyger lyrics running through my head all that time, so when I got it back, I was actually eager to hear it! (this happens a lot, BTW) I pop it in and listen all the way through about once every 6 weeks or so. Joe From: LilDavid72@a... Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:40 am Subject: Re: [tadream] tadream admin message: bouncing e-mails Hello, Heathpow@a... was an e-mail address issued to me by a company I no longer work for so I now have my own e-mail address. It is LilDavid72@a... Thank you, Heath Powell/Overland Park, KS/USA From: 'Greg' Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:09 am Subject: [tadream] D: Studio [tyger] TYGER I consider Tyger one of Tangerine Dream's best albums. I usually like the Virgin, and Millenium era albums, but this one is a true gem for the latter half of the 80's. The instrumentation of the vocal tracks is just GREAT! I am a fan of Blake and I feel he was well ahead of his time judging by his poetry and art. Blake seemed to have a view that is now considered anti-industrialist which also came out in some of his paintings. I think it is interesting that TD comes across to me having a simmilar view.. just consider the previous two albums Underwater Sunlight and Le Parc! Both have a hint the human and nature relationship. I even hear this on the genious that is 'Horizon.' Even though this is all IMO and my interpretation, I still think it's valid, and I still feel Tyger is definately valid. I appreciate art on different levels.. some times I'll allow a message to be expressed at the expense of some techincal flaws. Some times it just can't be helped! TD, unlike numerous electronic based bands, has showed an incredible human touch, as well as an ability to touch a much broader range of emotions. It is a rare moment for TD to release an album like Tyger. I welcome it wholely because it gives insight on everything else they have done. I'm surprised more women don't like Tangerine Dream; my ex loved Tyger, and I have an friend who is an artist who named her daughter Tangerine Jean. Maybe I'll post a picture that my friend took of Tangerine Jean and me in front of my painting 'Tangerine' =) Alchemy of the Heart is again a strike of gold... I love this track! It's a good seperation between London and Smile. The classical influence as well as the sequencing is top notch. Did I mention that Tyger has some of the best guitar work? I can't believe so many people don't like this. The vocals are great.. Jocelyn did a pretty good job with the rough to sing peoms. I think about this album.. then I think about the polar opposite.. Livemiles. This album has a lot of human emotioal elements, lyrics, warmth, nature, humanity. Livemiles is cold, purely technical, machine like, emotionless, and persistant. But I love both albums! Greg H. NP: Crazy Taxi Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21511 Re: D: Studio [tyger] Bennett Cookson Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB 21512 Re: D: Studio [tyger] Vic Rek Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB 21513 Re: D: Studio [tyger] Sean Montgomery Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB 21514 Re: D: Studio [tyger] Bennett Cookson Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB From: jjoy Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 6:35 am Subject: Re: Do we all like the same music? I noticed that almost anyone mentioned certain progressive rock bands - some, like, Yes, appeared in almost all lists. Not really surprising is the fact that I like those bands too. Here's my current favorite electronic-related music (besides TD!): Vangelis, Orbital, FSOL, The Orb, Talvin Singh's 'OK', Ryuichi Sakamoto, Franke, Schulze, Hoenig, Autechre, 808 State, Underworld, 'Run Lola Run' soundtrack, Enigma, Aphex Twin, Tomita, Photek, In The Nursery, Chandeen. My fave rock-related bands: Rush, Dream Theater, Midnight Oil, Lycia, Pixies, Slowdive, New Model Army, Steve Howe, Mickey Hart's Planet Drum, and a myriad of others. My dearest classical: Stravinsky, Prokofiev, Mahler, Debussy, J.S.Bach's organ works, Holst's 'Planets' and other loud and complex pieces... and Philip Glass, if he belongs here, and John Williams' soundtracks. I like jazz too, but it would be boring to mention all those well known names. In that department I include Tom Jobim's bossa nova songs - true classics of our time. Recently I bought 'Goldbug' from Ben Neill, who makes a very competent mixture of 'modern' trumpet (with mute and reverb effects) and neck-breaking Drum'n'Bass. Sounds almost like Miles Davis remixed by Photek... James Joystick NP - Orbital: The Middle of Nowhere From: Vic Rek Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:23 pm Subject: SwampPack 11 To promote our upcoming Tangerine Dream fan Okefenokee Swamp event in 11 days, I am offering one special package which I'll call: SwampPack 11 This one-of-a-kind package will contain 11 items and will include: 1. Marakesh PROMO CD single with all inserts (only 600 made) - VERY RARE 2. Tang-go CD with promo booklet from TDI 3. Great Wall of China CD 4. In the Beginning - 6 LP Box set from UK (with neon cover) 5. Hyperborea - US SBM CD 6. Four back issues of Dream Collector (Number 15-18) 7. Melrose - US Private Music CD with Promo hole in barcode 8. Tournado Tour UK promo flyer + autographed photo from Valentine Wheels package 9. Rockoon - US Miramar CD 10. CD-R(s) recorded at The Swamp Event + fan photos + special souvenirs 11. Stratosfear 7' single from Holland with beautiful picture sleeve (promoting the album that gave us the track '3 AM at the Border of the Marsh from Okefenokee'). This SwampPack 11 will help cover some of the costs of hosting the event and will be a great gift for any Tangerine Dream collector. The price for the SwampPack 11 is 29 Palms, where each Palm is worth $10. If more than one person is interested in this package, then I'll have a lottery, whereby each request gets 'n' number of tickets based on how many days before the event the request is received. For example, if you send a request for the package today, you would get 11 tickets, if you send it on April 9th, you will get one ticket. This offet ends at 9am April 9th, Eastern Standard Time (GMT -5:00 hours) Good luck! Vic From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:51 pm Subject: Streethawk Yesterday I received a copy of the 'Reflex' magazine from 1988 which contained an interview with TD and - most important - the flexi single of 'House of the rising sun'. There was a 3-page interview and at some point Edgar said: 'To this day I don't know what Universal is doing with all those masses of music'...'we are not allowed to release even a single out of the Streethawk music....We know there is brilliant music here which has never been released. A lot of chasing music. I remember we did some experimental stuff with new ways of getting sequences together..' Damn! Just imagine TD would bring out an album with all the best stuff...but of course this will never happen :-( Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21501 Re: Streethawk craig.cordrey@g... Wed 3/29/2000 3 KB 21508 Re: Streethawk Sean Montgomery Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB 22402 Re: Streethawk Heiko Heerssen Fri 5/12/2000 2 KB 22412 TD / Miami Vice Sean Montgomery Fri 5/12/2000 2 KB 23348 Streethawk Paul Fellows Sat 7/22/2000 2 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 1:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Streethawk >From: Heiko Heerssen > >Damn! Just imagine TD would bring out an album with all the best >stuff...but of course this will never happen :-( Remember, that was 15 years ago. Ed might not think it's 'great' now. He seems a little more selective (as we all are) about the 'great things' of the past. I rarely listen to those 'great' Duran Duran records any more. 8-) NP : Klopzeichen - Kluster -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21508 Re: Streethawk Sean Montgomery Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB From: 'joe shoults' Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 2:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Streethawk edgar has stated that he never listens to his past material (which certainly explains how TD's style has evolved), and said that listening to them again to do remixes is like torture. > -----Original Message----- > From: craig.cordrey@g... ... > Remember, that was 15 years ago. Ed might not think it's > 'great' now. He seems > a little more selective (as we all are) about the 'great > things' of the past. I Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21503 Re: Streethawk Heiko Heerssen Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB 21504 Re: Streethawk Rudy Russo Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB 21507 Re: Streethawk craig.cordrey@g... Wed 3/29/2000 3 KB 21505 Re: Streethawk Joel Mullen Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB 21506 Re: Streethawk Patrik . Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 3:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Streethawk craig.cordrey@g... wrote: > Remember, that was 15 years ago. Ed might not think it's 'great' now. He seems > a little more selective (as we all are) about the 'great things' of the past. I > rarely listen to those 'great' Duran Duran records any more. 8-) With Edgar it's like an old ABC song: 'That was then, but this is now'... But talking about the past: I just can't wait to listen to 'Soundmill Navigator'. I ordered it in advance and hope to find my copy lying on the doormat this evening :-) > NP : Klopzeichen - Kluster I knew he had taste ;-) Heiko From: Rudy Russo Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 3:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Streethawk > From: craig.cordrey@g... > > I rarely listen to those 'great' Duran Duran > records any more. 8-) Hey, Craig, you shouldn't admit to things like listening to Duran Duran. What's next, Bronski Beat and Soft Cell? LOL!!!!! Rude __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21507 Re: Streethawk craig.cordrey@g... Wed 3/29/2000 3 KB From: Joel Mullen Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 3:18 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Streethawk On Wednesday, March 29, 2000 9:04 AM, Rudy Russo [SMTP:rudy_russo@y...] wrote: > What's next, Bronski Beat > and Soft Cell? LOL!!!!! > > Rude @!%$#$!!!!! (Thanks alot) NP (in my head) .....Tainted Love...... oohooh .... tainted love.... From: 'Patrik .' Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 8:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Streethawk From: Heiko Heerssen Damn! Just imagine TD would bring out an album with all the best stuff...but of course this will never happen :-( Streethawk and that was in 1985, a great year and Schmoelling is still with them! I consider the Schmoelling years as incredibly important both in terms of composition and technically speaking. Just remember how the drums evolved from the Linn-type of sound (rather stiff and static) on Thief to the dramatic arpeggios on Hyperborea and Poland! Yes I know, I´m living in the past, can´t help it! Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 4:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Streethawk >From: Rudy Russo > >> From: craig.cordrey@g... >> >> I rarely listen to those 'great' Duran Duran >> records any more. 8-) > >Hey, Craig, you shouldn't admit to things like >listening to Duran Duran. What's next, Bronski Beat >and Soft Cell? LOL!!!!! Despite its dubious lyrics and sentiments (we won't go there again), I thought Age of Consent by Bronski Beat was actually quite good (at the time). And I still like Soft Cell's Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret when I occassionally play it. I was a real New Romatic/Electro-Pop fan back then. Wish I'd been old enough to try for a Midge Ure pencil-thin moustache and sideburns. Cool!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Montgomery Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Streethawk On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 craig.cordrey@g... wrote: > Remember, that was 15 years ago. Ed might not think it's 'great' now. He seems > a little more selective (as we all are) about the 'great things' of the past. I > rarely listen to those 'great' Duran Duran records any more. 8-) Hey, don't go knocking Duran Duran...they wrote some catchy tunes! How can you not admire a Hungry Like the Wolf or a New Moon on Monday? Sorry, I'm an unapologetic fan of 80s music. :-) SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'joe shoults' Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 6:06 pm Subject: OT: not RE: [tadream] Streethawk Actually, I think Rio is a great album, especially The Chauffeur. call me cheesy. We've been getting way off topic; whaddya say let's try to steer the boat back towards shore? joe > -----Original Message----- > Hey, don't go knocking Duran Duran...they wrote some catchy > tunes! How > can you not admire a Hungry Like the Wolf or a New Moon on Monday? > > Sorry, I'm an unapologetic fan of 80s music. :-) From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 6:10 pm Subject: [tadream] Streethawk single Hi all, I've been trying to work out a dilemma for the past few months concerning the various versions, catalogue numbers and exact contents of the different 'Streethawk' 7 and 12 inch vinyl singles. Well, for those of you who are interested, I've finally worked it out, and I think I have the definitive information. In fact, 'Voices in the Dunes' has a mistake (the Jive 12 inch has the Radio Mix of 'Streethawk', not the album version), and Rainer Rutka has omitted to mention the 7 inch Jive version, catalogue number JIVE 101, on his very comprehensive discography. I have split the information onto two pages now, one for 'Streethawk', the other for 'Tiergarten', which is more logical and clearer. Here are the links: http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/singles/webpages/streethawk.html http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/singles/webpages/tiergarten.html Cheers Paul From: Bennett Cookson Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 9:27 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D: Studio [tyger] When I first bought tyger I usually only listened to Common man and Vigour and the CD mostly gathered dust for many years. Like others, I was turned off my the vocals, but over the year the rest of the album grew on me. Now my favorite part is 'Alchemy of the Heart' and the last half of London (after the vocals) which is my very favorite guitar solo! 'Alchemy of the Heart.' What a masterpiece! I now feel it is one of the all time best TD tracks! My advice if you don't like it, don't give up on that track, keep listening to it, listen closer... --Bennett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Vic Rek Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 9:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D: Studio [tyger] > From: Bennett Cookson > > 'Alchemy of the Heart.' What a masterpiece! I now feel it is one of the > all time best TD tracks! My advice if you don't like it, don't give up on > that track, keep listening to it, listen closer... What about 'Smile'? I love this track even though many fans hate it. Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21513 Re: D: Studio [tyger] Sean Montgomery Wed 3/29/2000 2 KB From: Sean Montgomery Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 10:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D: Studio [tyger] > What about 'Smile'? I love this track even though many fans hate it. Vic Of all the vocal tracks on Tyger, this is the one I can most readily tolerate. And that's because on Smile, they did not try to write a song that conforms to a pop music verse-chorus-verse structure. That has never been their forte, and whenever they've tried to do 'pop', it's come out all wrong (Dominion, Cinnamon Road, Tyger, Optical Race, Alexander Square). On 'Smile', they stick to their area of strength, which is lush atmospherics. The vocals merely add seasoning (as they did on one of my all-time favourite TD pieces, Kiew Mission). SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: Bennett Cookson Date: Wed Mar 29, 2000 11:14 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D: Studio [tyger] From: Vic Rek > From: Bennett Cookson > > 'Alchemy of the Heart.' What a masterpiece! I now feel it is one of the > all time best TD tracks! My advice if you don't like it, don't give up on > that track, keep listening to it, listen closer... What about 'Smile'? I love this track even though many fans hate it. Vic This one is still growing on me, and may take a little longer... maybe by the time we get back around to D:Tyger --Bennett [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'joe shoults' Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 12:17 am Subject: Okefenokee info For those who were just curious about what's going on with the Okefenokee Gathering, or are actually planning to go and want some more specific info about what to watch out for, and to bring, we've posted the info on http://www.tadream.net. joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21521 Re: Okefenokee info Marcel Engels Thu 3/30/2000 2 KB From: Sean Harvey Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:31 pm Subject: Questions about new albums Hi, I've been here for a month or so. Everything's been fine up until now, but with everyone discussing Great Wall of China Soundmill Navigator and other albums, I thought I'd ask. Are all of these must-haves? The only places I can get them are online, as all of the music retailers in Canada seem to think TD doesn't exist. Are any of the compilations or 'Best of''s? Here's the albums I'm interested in: Great Wall of China Soundmill Navigator Tang-go Sohoman Atlantic Walls Atlantic Bridges Architecture in Motion Any help is appreciated. Thanks! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21517 Re: Questions about new albums craig.cordrey@g... Thu 3/30/2000 4 KB 21522 Re: Questions about new albums Sean Montgomery Thu 3/30/2000 2 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 4:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Questions about new albums Another Sean, just what we need. 8-) >Here's the albums I'm interested in: > >Great Wall of China New soundtrack - very '90s TD style. 'Must-have-ness' dependant on appreciation of 90s TD. >Soundmill Navigator 'New' release of 1976 Berlin concert. Must have if fan of mid-70s TD. >Tang-go New compilation of 90s TD material. Can't remember track list but I think it's all TDI stuff. >Sohoman 'New' release of 1982 Melbourne concert, but it has been Tangetized (i.e. parts have been re-recorded or over-dubbed with new material). >Atlantic Walls >Atlantic Bridges Both are compilations of Private Music/TDI stuff (i.e. post 1988). Actually enjoy Bridges quite a bit, despite the period not being one of my favourites. >Architecture in Motion Newish soundtrack in the 90s style. Don't like this as much as some others on the list appear to. I don't have everything on this list (Tang-go isn't even out yet, and Soundmill Navigator is due any day), and I'm not clear whether you are or are not looking for compilations, but I'd go for Soundmill Navigator certainly (if you like earlier TD) and select only one of the three compilations you listed. Hope this helps a little, -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: 'koulos_' Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 3:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Questions about new albums Here's the albums I'm interested in: Great Wall of China From: Nigbur D Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 4:14 pm Subject: [tadream] Great Wall of Rockoon I was baffled and a bit disappointed when first listening to 'Great Wall of China' (after having gone to lengths to order the thing through my local record shop), and finding just how similar some of the compositions are to Rockoon/220V period music. For instance, the first minute or so of 'Summer in Shauxi' is very close to 'Body Corporate' from Rockoon. The sequence and effects from 'Girls on Broadway' also appear on one of the tracks (I can't remember which one now). There are A LOT of cases on the album of Rockoon/220V material apparently packaged into a more trance-y, 'millennium years' TD style. I don't mean to slate here, the album is certainly not without its merits, but not as creative and fresh (in my opinion) as Mars Polaris or Transsiberia. If it is true that TD chuck their new material into the vaults after release and never listen to it again, I wonder how such recycling of melodies and sequences can occur? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21520 Re: Great Wall of Rockoon tom807@a... Thu 3/30/2000 3 KB 21524 Re: Great Wall of Rockoon Gabe Yedid Thu 3/30/2000 5 KB 21542 Re: Great Wall of Rockoon Nigbur D Fri 3/31/2000 3 KB From: tom807@a... Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 5:52 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Great Wall of Rockoon TD have always 'recycled' melodies. So what. They are good melodies. GWoC is a great album. Lots of Jerome on it, which is not a bad thing, in my (not so) humble opinion. Actually, I've been quite surprised at the lack of postings regarding the opinions from the tadream'ers. Every time a new album is released there are bound to be complaints. Then a few years go by, and it's a classic. Hmm. I see a pattern here. Long live TD. tom807 (http://www.mp3.com/tom807) In a message dated 3/30/00 11:15:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, D.Nigbur@r... writes: > I was baffled and a bit disappointed when first listening to 'Great Wall of > China' (after having gone to lengths to order the thing through my local > record shop), and finding just how similar some of the compositions are to > Rockoon/220V period music. For instance, the first minute or so of 'Summer > in Shauxi' is very close to 'Body Corporate' from Rockoon. The sequence and > effects from 'Girls on Broadway' also appear on one of the tracks (I can't > remember which one now). > > There are A LOT of cases on the album of Rockoon/220V material apparently > packaged into a more trance-y, 'millennium years' TD style. I don't mean to > slate here, the album is certainly not without its merits, but not as > creative and fresh (in my opinion) as Mars Polaris or Transsiberia. If it is > true that TD chuck their new material into the vaults after release and > never listen to it again, I wonder how such recycling of melodies and > sequences can occur? From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 6:49 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Okefenokee info > From: 'joe shoults' > > For those who were just curious about what's going on with the Okefenokee > Gathering, or are actually planning to go and want some more specific info > about what to watch out for, and to bring, we've posted the info on > http://www.tadream.net. Hmm not sure but isn't anyone playing there? :-) Nice background picture! Marcel Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels Email :fsp@w... From: Sean Montgomery Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Questions about new albums > The only places I can get them are online, as all of the music retailers > in Canada seem to think TD doesn't exist. Mostly true, but not entirely. Are you in the Toronto area? The flagship Sam the Record Man store downtown usually has new TDI releases (but they're outrageously priced), and so does Second Spin Records on Bloor near Bathurst. Shopping online is still your best bet though...even taking shipping costs and the U.S. exchange rate into account, it's generally cheaper for the TDI releases. As for the albums you mention, Tang-go will probably be your best bet if you don't have many of TDs recent albums. It's a decent compilation of their 90s music. You can see a track listing on the TDi webpage: http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/tanggo.html SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'joe shoults' Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Okefenokee info well, I didn't say it was 'complete'! ;-) give me some text and I'll put it in. Has anyone compiled an actual itenerary/agenda? that would be good to list... please help. thanks, joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcel Engels [mailto:fsp@w...] ... > Hmm not sure but isn't anyone playing there? :-) > Nice background picture! > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21525 Re: Okefenokee info Vic Rek Thu 3/30/2000 3 KB 21526 Re: Okefenokee info Dave Brewer Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB From: Gabe Yedid Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 11:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Great Wall of Rockoon On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Nigbur D wrote: > I was baffled and a bit disappointed when first listening to 'Great Wall of > China' (after having gone to lengths to order the thing through my local > record shop), and finding just how similar some of the compositions are to > Rockoon/220V period music. For instance, the first minute or so of 'Summer > in Shauxi' is very close to 'Body Corporate' from Rockoon. The sequence and > effects from 'Girls on Broadway' also appear on one of the tracks (I can't > remember which one now). On the whole, I'd have to say 'Summer in Shauxi' reminds me most of 'One Fine Day In Siberia' from _BtS_ in terms of its structure and main theme. It would have fit right in, and I consider it almost a companion piece. The rhythmic pattern from 'Girls on Broadway' is, which reappears on 'Silence The Barking Monk' is, I believe, a preset pattern from the Korg Wavestation, and is also used on 'Last Trumpet on 23rd Street' from _What a Blast_. This is not, IMO, the same as wholesale repackaging of material, and I felt I had to speak out on this before somebody gets the idea that these two tracks are remixes/retreads of earlier pieces, in the same way that 'The Golden Horn' from _Transsiberia_ was (it's 'Turning Off The Wheel' minus some layers). I'm pretty sure the melody and harmonic background of 'Silence...' are quite different from those of 'Girls on Broadway'. > There are A LOT of cases on the album of Rockoon/220V material apparently Would you mind mentioning some others? Apart from these two examples (one of which I don't agree with), and the usual suspects (harpsichord sound etc.), I don't hear a whole lot of Rockoon/220V influence on this album. If anything I would have to say certain parts remind more of 1989 TD, especially _L'Affaire Wallraff_; two(maybe three?) pieces are obviously more in the TimeSquare/Mars Polaris mold, and one piece is IMO a clear nod to '70s TD: 'The South Gate Knights', which I think of as a sort of dark version of 'Astral Voyager'. > packaged into a more trance-y, 'millennium years' TD style. I don't mean to > slate here, the album is certainly not without its merits, but not as > creative and fresh (in my opinion) as Mars Polaris or Transsiberia. If it is > true that TD chuck their new material into the vaults after release and > never listen to it again, I wonder how such recycling of melodies and > sequences can occur? Now that's a can of worms I'm not sure we want to open on the moderated list...(the implication as to what my view is should be clear enough) but, for anyone who has heard (dare I say it?) live tapes from the 1980/81 tour, how many times was the 'Diamond Diary' sequence used on that tour? At least once a show...and it reappeared again on _The Park Is Mine_...and let's not forget how the track we know now as 'Ayers Majestic' (from the 1982 Australian tour) was repackaged into the third section of 'Horizon' over a year later on _Poland_. I'm not very concerned about this because, IMO, there's nothing new and disturbing about it at all. Gabe From: Vic Rek Date: Thu Mar 30, 2000 11:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee info joe shoults wrote: > > well, I didn't say it was 'complete'! ;-) > > give me some text and I'll put it in. Has anyone compiled an actual > itenerary/agenda? that would be good to list... > > please help. Well, The itinerary is loose at the moment. The plan goes like this: We arrive somewhere between 2PM and 7PM April 9th. We find the best place to record the music (talk to park rangers about any details) and unpack and relax. We have the reknown artist Marcel Engels at the Berlin EM helm and David Brewer as the partner. We may even have a surprise EM musician guest from Florida (code name 'Enterphase'). Then we improvise from there. This is an intimate fan event, so no strict agenda exists, but the main goals are: 1. To meet with fellow TD fans and listen to TD and gain exposure to new EM artists 2. To record live music celebrating the event (hoping to do this during April 9-10, day or night) 3. Have a swamp tour and enjoy the nature and beautiful surroundings 4. Have a 3AM canoe cruise through the swamp with a near full moon (if allowed by law :-) 5. Have fond memories for the Year 2000! Anyone else care to join us? Our committed list has dropped so now is a perfect time to get a spot for the event. If you wish to meet us in Atlanta on April 8th or early April 9th, we can caravan down on April 9th. It's about a 5 hour drive from Atlanta. Hope to hear from you and please contact me if you need further information or help in making arrangements. Vic From: 'Dave Brewer' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 12:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee info Hmmm, I was wondering that myself, Marcel! :-) Maybe we're just going to hang out in the swamp, listening to the alligators' grunting and hissing noises. Some of us can beat on fallen logs with rocks and sticks to give the music some rhythm! We might be able to get something that sounds a little bit like Electronic Meditation! :-) Dave B. -----Original Message----- From: Marcel Engels To: tadream@o... Date: Thursday, March 30, 2000 11:45 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] Okefenokee info Hmm not sure but isn't anyone playing there? :-) Nice background picture! Marcel [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Hermes Guzman' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 1:54 am Subject: Soundmill Navigator *SLAM!* *thumpthumpthUMPTHUMPTHUMP* *crinklestraiiinkle* *tchock...click* *chik...whirrdle...* (wait for it) wow. The intro is amazing! I don't care if it is modern! It absolutely * feels* vintage! This part alone should reaffirm Edgar's genius! A whole album in this vein would be...a nice Dream! (8:00) Hello...some of the original intro bits are filtering in... (12:00) Now we get into the familiar material...yes, it has modern overdubs. Get over it. (Although I think they may be a little high in the mix...) (15:00)Mmmmmmmmmmmm...the Sequence(tm). Yessssssssssss...(although there's this noise thats jumps from l to r that I'm not sure is an overdub or a flaw in the disc.) The additions now are better balanced in the mix and...OH MY!!! GUITAR!!! REAL VINTAGE EDGAR AXE!!! FROESEN LICKS FRENZY!!! YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! (that noise is starting to bug me. I hope it *is* a flaw...) WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Some of the additions are a little to forward again...but I have to say I * love* the new drone underneath it all! The guitar is mixed to far back for my tastes... (rrrrrrrrrr...that noise is now starting to become the focus...tssst- tssst-tssst-tssst-tssst-tssst...) (32:00) For a minute the overdubs were gone...ooops. Tape flaw at 33:35 (a <.5 sec dropout.) (37:00) whoa. The intro/drone reprise. It reminds me tangentally [;)] of Metropolis (it would make a great compliment to that, in fact.) This will ovbiously take us out of the disk. And it has. And that annoying noise *is* a mastering flaw!! $#@^*(#^@(!!! Let the praise and vitriol begin. goozer Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21528 Re: Soundmill Navigator Jared White Fri 3/31/2000 3 KB 21530 Re: Soundmill Navigator Hermes Guzman Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB 21531 Re: Soundmill Navigator Gabe Yedid Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB 21538 Soundmill Navigator Heiko Heerssen Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB 21576 Re: Soundmill Navigator horrod6 Sun 4/2/2000 2 KB 21581 Soundmill Navigator Michael V Miller Sun 4/2/2000 2 KB 21591 Soundmill Navigator Heiko Heerssen Mon 4/3/2000 3 KB 21598 Soundmill Navigator Michael V Miller Mon 4/3/2000 2 KB 21831 Soundmill Navigator Michael V Miller Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB From: 'Jared White' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 2:19 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator > -----Original Message----- > From: Hermes Guzman [mailto:goozer@a...] > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 5:55 PM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator > > > > > *SLAM!* > > *thumpthumpthUMPTHUMPTHUMP* > > *crinklestraiiinkle* > > *tchock...click* > > *chik...whirrdle...* > > (wait for it) > > wow. > > The intro is amazing! I don't care if it is modern! It absolutely * > feels* vintage! This part alone should reaffirm Edgar's genius! A > whole > album in this vein would be...a nice Dream! Uh, oh -- I hope some of the other fans here don't go screaming into the night with this bit. :) Not that I mind, but I thought TDI said Soundmill Navigator wasn't 'tangentized?' Sounds interesting, anyway -- I sure hope SN makes its way into Borders Books & Music here in Santa Rosa, CA (Great Wall of China didn't, I had to order it from the Web)! Take care, Jared Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21530 Re: Soundmill Navigator Hermes Guzman Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB 21531 Re: Soundmill Navigator Gabe Yedid Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB From: 'Hermes Guzman' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 2:29 am Subject: Soundmill Navigator Again Greetings all- I gotta say I liked it. Some nice pics (though not as many as one would like...) and the liner notes are very good. Upon a second listen, the new intro/outro also remind me of Steve Roach's Stormwarning-era stuff minus the sequencers. I'm gonna be listening to this a lot. It's a majestic theme that I feel fits well with the material. Those of you who will disagree, will disagree. If you didn't like Sohoman for the overdubs, you'll hate this one, so do us all a favor and don't buy it. Oh wait, then you won't have a reason to be here...never mind.:) goozer From: 'Hermes Guzman' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 2:35 am Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator > Uh, oh -- I hope some of the other fans here don't go > screaming into the night with this bit. :) I can hear the whining invective already... > Not that I mind, but I thought TDI said Soundmill Navigator wasn't > 'tangentized?' Nope. Never said it. > Sounds interesting, anyway -- I sure hope SN makes its way > into Borders Books & Music here in Santa Rosa, CA (Great Wall > of China didn't, I had to order it from the Web)! I got mine at the Border's here in Dallas. And they have *all* of the other TDI discs, including Tang-Go, which I didn't pick up. goozer Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21531 Re: Soundmill Navigator Gabe Yedid Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB From: Gabe Yedid Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 3:18 am Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Hermes Guzman wrote: > > Uh, oh -- I hope some of the other fans here don't go > > screaming into the night with this bit. :) > > I can hear the whining invective already... > > > Not that I mind, but I thought TDI said Soundmill Navigator wasn't > > 'tangentized?' > > Nope. Never said it. Um, yes they did. Martin Kay said as much ON THIS LIST. I wish I had kept that particular message so I could repost it. (Anybody else actually willing to back me on this?) There is something overwhelmingly negative I want to say here, but I have neither the time, desire, or energy to deal with the fallout that would inevitably result from provoking TDI's sentinels. Gabe NP: JMJ: _Metamorphoses_--this is the most sickeningly Eurodisco thing he's ever done IMO, but it's grown on me considerably. From: 'Jared White' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 3:51 am Subject: FW: [tadream] Soundmill... Here it is from my mailbox archive: (Gee, I really don't know why I'm fueling the fire here, but I guess I feel kinda bad for you folks out there who were really wishing for a completely untouched original. I hope the few new elements in there after all really do work as well as 'goozer' has stated!) -----Original Message----- From: TDI - Martin K. [mailto:manager@t...] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:18 AM To: tadream@o... Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill... From: 'TDI - Martin K.' At 18:05 14.02.00 +0100, you wrote: >From: Olle.Rundgren@s... > >Sean Montgomery wrote: > >>I predict more remixes of TDI era stuff only. (another remix of Towards >>the Evening Star, perhaps?) > > ....or Touchwood, heaven forbid. > >Have a backlog on tadream digests now and just read about Soundmill >navigator. I am certain this has been discussed before on the list but still >would be happy if somebody could tell me where this was recorded >(Philharmonics?), under what concert name, and if this is going to be an >official release or semi-official, limited number of copies release, >official release for those who pay well enough, unofficial or - whatever >release? > >Tack på förhand >Olle Hello, Soundmill Navigator is an official release, normal price. It is a recording of a concert performed 1976 at the Philharmonie Berlin. The recordings have been remastered but not remixed ('tangentized' as you would call it in list jargon ;-)) Its release date is March 30th, 2000. hope this helps... All the best, Martin K. TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: http://www.tdi-music-mall.de Have a nice day! --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Get what you deserve with NextCard Visa. ZERO. Rates as low as 0.0 percent Intro APR, online balance transfers, Rewards Points, no hidden fees, and much more. Get NextCard today and get the credit you deserve. Apply now! Get your NextCard Visa at Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ain't technology great? now you can e-mail money! See how at: https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=joes%40yourplacepc.com. PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://tadream.copfer.com Visit our members' websites! Click around on the graphic on our homepage (link above). From: 'Cinemafan' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 6:47 am Subject: Duran Duran Fellow Duranies, I am watching ANDY TAYLOR -THUNDER LIVE FROM JAPAN, right now- the one solo durrannie I really liked. TD Content- There is a 2 cd Streethawk Collection availible for those who care. Email me if you need one. Chris NP-Get it On ...Live [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21535 Re: Duran Duran Chris Richards Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB 21571 Re: Duran Duran Chris Richards Sun 4/2/2000 2 KB From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 5:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator >From: 'Hermes Guzman' >Subject: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator >Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:54:52 -0000 > yes, it has modern >overdubs. Get over it. (Although I think they may be a little high in >the mix...) Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! E-mail me if you have the unmolested version. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21536 Re: Soundmill Navigator pergamon@g... Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB 21537 Re: Soundmill Navigator Greg Fri 3/31/2000 2 KB 21562 Re: Soundmill Navigator Feldon Feldon Sat 4/1/2000 2 KB 21565 Re: Soundmill Navigator Dave Brewer Sat 4/1/2000 2 KB 21612 Re: Soundmill Navigator Heiko Heerssen Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB 21729 Re: Soundmill Navigator David Foster Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB 21731 Re: Soundmill Navigator Joe Shoults Thu 4/6/2000 2 KB 21732 Re: Soundmill Navigator Gabe Yedid Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB 21777 Re: Soundmill Navigator aoutland@a... Sat 4/8/2000 2 KB From: Chris Richards Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 7:18 am Subject: Re: Duran Duran Someone sited Duran Duran's The Chauffer as a great song. I'll second that one! The first coule Duran albums had some cool songs on em, and that was my favorite. NP: Charles Mingus 'Girl Of My Dreams' (Mingus Ah Um) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: pergamon@g... Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:30 am Subject: RE: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator Yes I will back you up, I can't actually recall the persons name. But there where a statement from TDI saying it wasn't tangenized. Jan > > > Not that I mind, but I thought TDI said Soundmill Navigator wasn't > > > 'tangentized?' > > > > Nope. Never said it. > > Um, yes they did. Martin Kay said as much ON THIS LIST. > I wish I had kept that particular message so I could repost it. > (Anybody else actually willing to back me on this?) > pergamon@g... From: 'Greg' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator From: 'Hermes Guzman' > will ovbiously take us out of the disk. And it has. And that annoying > noise *is* a mastering flaw!! $#@^*(#^@(!!! > > Let the praise and vitriol begin. > > goozer On the second excerpt of the Soundmill Navigator clips from the TDI website, the right/left panning 'tisk tisk' can be clearly heard. It sounds particularly hypnotic to me. As far as the 'tangentizing' is concerned.. I could have told you this when the SN clips first came on the TDI site quite a while back.. I knew the high shrill sounds were not from that time! Do I care? No.. I can understand that mastering some old recordings can be difficult.. especially with drop outs and a sheer lack of a broad range of sound. I realize as with Sohoman, Soundmill Navigator probably has a lot of high range additions and probably some low range as well. I'm definately going to get this album! It will be particularly inspiring for me. Greg H. From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:34 am Subject: Soundmill Navigator With all the talk about 'tangentizing' I wonder if this CD would sound the same if at least Chris Franke and/or Peter Baumann would still be in the band. Until this day I don't know exactly if Edgar alone was responsible for mastering TD's music (and therefore the person who decided how a record should sound in the end), or if past members also had control over what was to be the final 'product'. I hope to get my copy of Soundmill Navigator very soon & it will be nice to compare it with the radio broadcast versions I have. Heiko From: Winston Edmond Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:30 am Subject: Digest Number 441 in quoted-printable? Yuck. Tadream digest #441 arrived in 'quoted-printable' format. Would whoever made that change please undo it. Thanks, -WBE From: Tomas Rydqvist Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 12:34 pm Subject: Rubycon revisited Hi folks Just question, Rubycon revisited is that a cdr from the beginning or is it a real boot?? I think i have been riped of, caus i recived a cdr with coulor label on it. Im i right or ,,,?? Thanks Totta From: Vic Rek Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 12:37 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Rubycon revisited > Hi folks > Just question, > Rubycon revisited is that a cdr from the beginning or is it a real > boot?? > I think i have been riped of, caus i recived a cdr with coulor label on > it. > Im i right or ,,,?? This release is a CD, NOT a CD-R. Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21544 Re: Rubycon revisited Michael A Jean Fri 3/31/2000 3 KB From: Nigbur D Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 2:49 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Great Wall of Rockoon > ---------- > From: Gabe Yedid[SMTP:gabe@p...] > Reply To: tadream@o... > Sent: 31 March 2000 00:05 > To: tadream list > Cc: artofvision@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] Great Wall of Rockoon > > The rhythmic pattern from 'Girls on Broadway' is, which reappears on > 'Silence The Barking Monk' is, I believe, a preset pattern from the Korg > Wavestation, and is also used on 'Last Trumpet on 23rd Street' from _What > a Blast_. > Ah, that would explain it. I really liked the track apart from this reminder of 'Girls on Broadway', so it was a bit of a sore thumb. > This is not, IMO, the same as wholesale repackaging of > material, and I felt I had to speak out on this before somebody gets the > idea that these two tracks are remixes/retreads of earlier pieces, in the > same way that 'The Golden Horn' from _Transsiberia_ was (it's 'Turning Off > The Wheel' minus some layers). > No, I didn't mean to give the impression that this was the case. None of the tracks on 'Great Wall of China' could be considered re-mixes or alternative versions of existing tracks. A lot of the sounds, rhythms, and melodies, however, seem quite similar. > I'm pretty sure the melody and harmonic > background of 'Silence...' are quite different from those of 'Girls on > Broadway'. > The first part of the piece is very different from anything else and a very interesting and novel composition. In stark contrast, the second part is _very_ similar to 'Girls on Broadway', with the rhythmic sequence and effects being identical, and just an additional, very quiet chords/melody layer added. It really isn't very far away from 'Girls on Braodway'. > > > There are A LOT of cases on the album of Rockoon/220V material > apparently > > Would you mind mentioning some others? > The problem is that I'm writing this from work, and I haven't listened to the CD recently enough to have it all ready here. I'll give it another listen. > mold, and one piece is IMO a clear nod to '70s TD: 'The South Gate > Knights', which I think of as a sort of dark version of 'Astral Voyager'. > I agree on that one. From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 5:34 pm Subject: TDI Message about Soundmill Navigator Hi all, Someone said something about wishing they still had the message from Martin at TDI reference 'Soundmill Navigator', and in particular whether it was 'Tangentised' or not, well here it is: >From: 'TDI - Martin K.' > >Hello, > >Soundmill Navigator is an official release, normal price. >It is a recording of a concert performed 1976 at the Philharmonie Berlin. >The recordings have been remastered but not remixed ('tangentized' as you >would call it in list jargon ;-)) >Its release date is March 30th, 2000. > >hope this helps... > >All the best, > >Martin K. >TDI- Music- Support. >Tel:-49-30-23620995 >Fax:-49-30-23620996 > >Visit our Website at: > >http://www.tdi-music-mall.de > >Have a nice day! From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 7:22 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Rubycon revisited Regardless of whether it is a CD or a CDR you have been ripped off anyway, because it is just awful (and not a TD project)... MJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Vic Rek [mailto:torque19@i...] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 6:38 AM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] Rubycon revisited > > > > Hi folks > > Just question, > > Rubycon revisited is that a cdr from the beginning or is it a real > > boot?? > > I think i have been riped of, caus i recived a cdr with coulor label on > > it. > > Im i right or ,,,?? > > This release is a CD, NOT a CD-R. Vic > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/3/_/24785/_/954506242/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: 'Hermes Guzman' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 7:37 pm Subject: Where did it go? Joe, Joel, Scott... Where did the reply that I posted last night to Jared's second message go? There wasn't anything in there that would've offended anyone, as I don't attach personal attacks to such subjective matters. So wher'd it go? I saw it this morning.... goozer From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 8:16 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Where did it go? > -----Original Message----- > From: Hermes Guzman > Where did the reply that I posted last night to Jared's second > message go? what do you mean? Nothing has been deleted... send it again if you need to. keep in mind the view is different in the archives when you 'View by Thread'. joe shoults np: Schulze- Body Love (has anyone seen this movie?!?) From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:14 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Duran Duran yup. dat wuz moi. actually, Hungry like the wolf, the most popular song on the album was the weakest, IMO. But I think that about a lot of albums... joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Richards [mailto:kohntarkosz@y...] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 2:18 AM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] Re: Duran Duran > > > Someone sited Duran Duran's The Chauffer as a > great song. I'll second that one! The first coule > Duran albums had some cool songs on em, and that > was my favorite. > > NP: Charles Mingus 'Girl Of My Dreams' (Mingus Ah > Um) > > ===== > May you never thirst! > The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris > > 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/3/_/24785/_/954487092/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:52 pm Subject: OT: RE: [tadream] Re: Duran Duran oops. dammit! meant for off-list. sorry (again). From: Airwave Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 1:12 am Subject: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat Hi everyone. About a month ago I sent an invitation to Edgar and Jerome to join the chat on IRC for a fan meeting. This was to take place sometime whenever they could find the time to so. Today 01/04/2000 I got the confirmation. Edgar and Jerome will join us on #tadream on SorceryNet tonight 01/04/2000 at 10pm (GMT) on IRC for a 1 hour meeting. I know this is short notice, but as schedules has made it impossible to give advanced notice there has been nothing I could do. Join us if you can. A transscript of the chat will be posted as soon as the meeting is over. mIRC for PC can be downloaded at www.mirc.com It is fairly easy to set up. --------------------------------------------------------------- __ \ O /_ AirWave, airwave@1... \/ /_ \ http:// (in the works) \ ICQ #65014061 Visit the TaDream Chat on IRC, SorceryNet, #tadream. Fridays and Saturdays 9pm-2am (GMT) (Usually ;-) Feel free to email me for details on how to access IRC. --------------------------------------------------------------- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21550 Osnabrueck live photos (NEW!!!) Rainer Rutka Sat 4/1/2000 3 KB 21568 SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat Airwave Sat 4/1/2000 3 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 2:17 am Subject: Osnabrueck live photos (NEW!!!) Hi! Just for your pleasure! While I was sufing though the internet I found some very interesting TD related sites. Some of them are strange. And I found some new (for me!) photos from the Klangart/Osnabrueck concert last year. The strange thing was: I found it on a smokers- fansite. Yes a site for smokers / tabako fans! And I found a very interesting TD page from Switzerland. See my updated links seite : www.rutka.de/td -> links or the updated Klangart pate: www.rutka.de/td -> klangart pictures (left). Or: www.schmauch.de/99-06-12/99-06-12-Katalog.html (this is the Klangart page only) Unfortunately these sites are in the german language (but we have some nice pictures). Rainer PS: I will ship the next Solar-Eclipse CDs on monday. --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: aoutland@a... Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 1:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat In a message dated 03/31/2000 7:10:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, airwave@1... writes: << Edgar and Jerome will join us on #tadream on SorceryNet tonight 01/04/2000 at 10pm (GMT) on IRC for a 1 hour meeting. >> Is this an April Fool's joke? 8-) Dell Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21554 Re: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat Jared White Sat 4/1/2000 2 KB 21561 Klaus Schulze to appear April 2 (not an April Foo joe shoults Sat 4/1/2000 2 KB From: 'Gustavo Jobim' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 5:16 am Subject: OT: Mail problem Hello all, I've been having problems with my email server, so I'll be using the Hotmail address for now. If anyone sent me anything and got no reply, please send again to this address: gustavofj@h... . The problem should be solved soon. And sorry for the OT message! G.F.Jobim - GFJM: http://gfjm.cjb.net p.s. If you know any free (and good) POP mail account provider, please tell me! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Miguel Farah F.' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 4:14 am Subject: Check this out! New prog compilation album Hi all. I found this on another music-related mailing list I am subscribed to, and I thought you might be interested: NEW COMPILATION ALBUM THE WORLD'S MOST IMPORTANT PROGRESSIVE RAP Proghead Music is proud to present the most important progressive rap songs ever, all together in a unique compilation album. This compilation is not about the 'hits' or the most popular tracks, it is instead about the most *important* songs: the ones that helped define the genre and posed the biggest influence (of course, everyone knows that means these are the best!). Get this album and you will have all there is needed to fully understand and enjoy progressive rap! THE WORLD'S MOST IMPORTANT PROGRESSIVE RAP's track listing is: Disc 1: 1. Nemesis - Invisible Couch 2. Queen Crimson - Bohemian Discipline 3. Gabriel Peters - Spank the Monkey 4. Steele Bracket - Spectral Moanings 5. Rust - Free Willy 6. Genitals A-Giant - Asspirations 7. Emerson, Lake and Hammer - Love Bitch 8. Tangerine Theater - Images and Logos 9. Queen Crimson - 23rd Century Schizoid Narn 10. The Notorious A.P. - Pervert Aunts And Nieces Disc 2: 11. Gabriel Peters - I Go Sniffing 12. Scott's Mustache - The Blight 13. Emerson, Lake and Hammer - Lucky Strike 14. Kink Freud - The Wart 15. Nemesis - Seven Stoned 16. Affirmative - The Bladder 17. Genitals A-Giant - Nigga Cat 18. Keith E - Wanky 19. Rust - Bitch Hunt 20. ICQ - Subterfugia Catalog number: PRGH0401 Go to your favorite music store and buy your copy NOW! ATTENTION: if you buy directly from Proghead Music's on-line store, you'll get a bonus single with Mellotronic's 'Pump Up The Hammond' and 'This Beat Is Mellotronic' for FREE! Go to http://www.usenet.cl/proghead-music right away!!! -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel@w... #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> 'Trust me - I know what I'm doing.' - Sledge Hammer From: 'Jared White' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 4:32 am Subject: RE: [tadream] SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat Yes, it has nothing to do with reality. Unfortunately.... :( Weird, Jared > -----Original Message----- > From: aoutland@a... [mailto:aoutland@a...] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 5:53 PM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat > > > In a message dated 03/31/2000 7:10:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, > airwave@1... writes: > > << > Edgar and Jerome will join us on #tadream on SorceryNet > tonight 01/04/2000 at 10pm (GMT) on IRC for a 1 hour meeting. > >> > > Is this an April Fool's joke? 8-) Dell Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21561 Klaus Schulze to appear April 2 (not an April Foo joe shoults Sat 4/1/2000 2 KB From: 'David Foster' Date: Fri Mar 31, 2000 7:16 pm Subject: Mars Polaris Astrophobia is favourite track at the moment. UK news says that it's official........NASA underspent on the project by 33%....probably why the first mission shot past and the second crashed. What I really want to know is.......when the workers at NASA backup the car in the parking lot every day, do they use feet and inches or convert into metric? 'Sorry, Honey, I crashed the car this morning, I couldn't calculate the velocity of that back wall...the space was 33% smaller than I expected.' David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 22153 Mars Polaris Synthhtnys@a... Mon 4/24/2000 2 KB 24924 Mars Polaris Frank Arellano Thu 11/9/2000 2 KB 24925 Re: Mars Polaris Jared White Thu 11/9/2000 2 KB 24926 Re: Mars Polaris Feldon Feldon Thu 11/9/2000 5 KB 24927 Re: Mars Polaris Jared White Thu 11/9/2000 4 KB 24935 Re: Mars Polaris Feldon Feldon Thu 11/9/2000 4 KB 24963 Re: Mars Polaris PENFOLD Fri 11/10/2000 2 KB 24937 Re: Mars Polaris Joe Shoults Thu 11/9/2000 2 KB 24938 Re: Mars Polaris quarlie@a... Thu 11/9/2000 2 KB From: 'Dave Brewer' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 8:42 am Subject: Soundmill Navigator First Impressions After Goozer was able to get a copy from his local Borders, I thought I'd check mine today. Lo and behold, they had a copy, so I snagged it up quick! They also had a copy of Tang Go there as well, but since I have everything on there except the two tracks from the Dream Dice bonus disc, I passed. I also saw a copy of GWoC there, with a slightly different cover art than mine. (mine has a white border around the front, whereas this one had no border) Again, my condolences to those who must collect every variant of artwork... ;-) Before I started listening, I already realized that it was tangentized from hearing the clips on the website. Personally, I don't agree with this practice, but I respect it. It's Edgar's music after all, and he can do what he darn well pleases with it! Still, I do wish he'd leave the vintage recordings alone, except for cleaning up the sound quality as best as possible. But like I said, he can do what he feels is best for the music. Now, my first impression was listening in the car. I know, that's not the best place to listen to music, since it has to compete with all sorts of noise. But, that's just the way it is, to quote Bruce Hornsby. :-) Even tho it's modern, I do like the intro quite a bit! Some very interesting sound layers in there! But after three minutes into it, some annoying sound comes on. It sounds like a looped sample of someone spraying glass cleaner on something, panning back and forth in the stereo image. At first I think it's just part of one of the keyboard sounds, since a lot of the modern keyboard sounds have all sorts of little effects like that in them. After a while, some vintage mellotron sounds start seeping through. That 'spray' sound is still around... Some more time passes, and some excellent sequencer sounds come to life... Spray sound continues to be there... Starting to distract me... The sequencers get more active, and then Edgar's guitar begins to sing. Ahhhh, wonderful-waitaminute... That spray sound is still going! I'm really starting to focus more on that than the rest of the music. It's kinda hard for me not to, since it's what I can hear the easiest in the car! Anyway, you probably get my drift. That spray sound just continues to be there, and makes it hard to listen to the rest of the music. The piece eventually ends with the same figure it started with, which I like. They're still spraying away tho and I've been hearing it for almost 40 minutes straight now! The combination of hearing that sound constantly for that long and enduring rush hour traffic at the same time is really fraying my nerves! The spray sound doesn't end until the disc does... Ugh! This 'spray' sound I've been fixating on must be the sound Goozer was mentioning. I'm not sure what it is or if it was intentional or not. But either way, it is a mastering flaw. If it is a keyboard sound, they probably shouldn't have had it going for about 38 minutes straight. And if it is something on the tape or something like that, then they should have noticed it in the monitor speakers as they were mastering it and did something about it. Okay so I was listening to it in the car, maybe it will sound more balanced and the constant 'fffft fffft fffft fffft' won't be as noticeable on my home stereo. But this is one of those things that makes you wonder, 'what the hell is that?!' Putting that sound aside, I like the disc. Yeah, it could be longer, and do without modern overdubs, but it's still good. But if we can find out what the deal is with this sound, then I could rest easier. :-) Speaking of rest... It is late, and I must sleep now... Good night, all! Dave Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... From: Chris Richards Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 9:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 441 <> Wow!! I had no idea such a thing existed. I have part of his first solo concert, which was televised live on MTV on New Year's Eve 86. I remember because it opened it with a version of Thin Lizzy's Rosalie/The Cowgirl Song. Well, actually, Rosalie is a Bob Seger song, but Lizzy covered it, and when they performed it onstage, they would stick a little Cowboy Song tease in (hence 'The Cowgirl Song' part of the title). Well, Andy does this PERFECT performance of the song, very faithful to the version on Lizzy's 'not so live' live album, Live And Dangerous, the only real difference being that they he had a power trio and was therefore the only guitarist, and he didn't sing during the Cowgirl Song bit. Well, after Andy's set, one of the original MTV VJ's, that shmuck Mark Goodman, comes on and says 'Andy opened with Rosalie, the old Bob Seger song', and didn't even TRY to point out the obvious tip of the hat to Lizzy (probably in commeration of their leader Phil Lynott, who had passed away the previous January). :-P Yeah, this is has nothing to do with TD, but this does: Does anyone have the untampered with version of the Soundmill Navigator show? WP: Kiss 'Rock N Roll All Night' (Dressed To Kill) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Chris Richards Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 9:46 am Subject: Re: First contact Well, with me, it was a bit weird. I got into rock music real early. Like when I was two! My oldest brother was always playing Uriah Heep, Kiss, Peter Frampton, that sorta stuff. So, very early on, I knew I wanted to be a guitarist. By the time I was 10, I was reading whatever I could find about music, reading guitar magazines, and also borrowing whatever books I could find about musical instruments from the library. Including books about synthesizers. I remember seeing Tangerine Dream mentioned in a book called Rock Hardware, which was an occasionally inaccurate (according to the authors, Elvis Costello played a Fender Jaguar during the early part of his career...it was actually a Jazzmaster) book that had a picture of Chris Franke onstage, sometime in the late 70's or early 80's, maybe. I remember the caption said he used a customised modular synth, a Elka string synth and I forget what else. From there, I think next I saw a book that Keyboard magazine put out, I think just called Electronic Music. This book consisted largely of reprinted articles, one of which was on Tangerine Dream. I think it was from around 81 or 82, I know it was configured as an interview with the entire group, but not all of them were present (it was something like Chris starting the interview, then Johannes walked in half way through and joined the interview, and then Edgar was interviewed seperately). I also remember them talking about, I think, the soundtrack to Theif, and how they didn't like the way it was used during the last 10 or 15 minutes of the movie, with the music fading in and out. I think it was Chris who also talked about the idea of doing a soundtrack for a movie that no one see...they would just hear the music they created for the visuals. I also remember this photo from 80 or so, maybe from the Pergammon, and they just had TONS of gear onstage!!! That looked impressive to this 11 year old!!!! Anyway, somewhere in there, I saw Wavelength on TV. Two things that stand out in my mind: this is what Cherie Currie did after The Runaways broke up(Ya remember The Runaways, the band that Joan Jett and Lita Ford played in!!! Anyway, Cherie played the female lead in this movie, the blond who had the psychic link with the extraterrestrials). I remember really liking the music that was played over the closing credits, and I spotted the words TANGERINE DREAM in the credits, listed under 'Music by' or some such. I'm not sure exactly WHEN it was, but somewhere in there, maybe around 85 or so, I finally bought Tangram. I think I went to the record store, and saw four or five albums, probably mainly the Virgin stuff. I think I picked Tangram because of the two or three records that I had the money to buy, I think this one impressed because there was one track on each side. So I bought it. I can't really verbalise what I thought of Set I at the time. What a wonderful piece of music! I remember laying on the couch in the wood panelled basement, listening to that album on the stereo. I just remember really liking the way the whole thing unfolds so perfectly. I also remember it was ages before I really got into side two, and in fact, for a long time, I couldn't even remember what it sounded like, but it's very sweet as well. A great album. So as the next few years went by, I bought whatever vinyl I could. I remember buying Rubycon, and borrowing the old Relativity double CD version of Zeit from the library (and being disappointed at how 'uneventful' the music seemed). I remember going to one store (which later burned down) and asking them to play a little bit of Encore on the turntable before I bought, as I feared it would be like Zeit (I like Zeit now, btw, but then, I just couldn't get into it). After hearing about 5 seconds of whichever track the person played (she dropped the needle in a random place, I think), I said 'I'LL TAKE IT!'. I also remember getting the old Virgin issues of Cyclone, Force Majeur, and Logos on CD (the latter two I bought when I was living in San Diego). Then, I eventually found people who had bootlegs and I started doing tape trades and got some stuff. I remember actually buying a couple bootleg videos (non-TD ones) at a record store, and taking them back a week later because I was dissatisfied and exchanging them for the Tangents set, that had to have been something like 95 or so (because I tried to listen to the entire set in sequential order, it took me AGES to discover Silver Scale). Well, that's a bit more than just the first contact thing, but at least I didn't go on about the dude I met who maintains that TD should have released the Reims performance way back when! :-) NP: Aerosmith 'No More, No More' (Toys In The Attic) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 9:56 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: First contact In a message dated 4/1/2000 9:46:51 AM !!!First Boot!!!, kohntarkosz@y... writes: << (because I tried to listen to the entire set in sequential order, it took me AGES to discover Silver Scale). *Where can I find this track, again? I've been reading about it lately and am curious.... It seems like it also appeared on a live release(?) NP: Aerosmith 'No More, No More' (Toys In The Attic)>> *oh now that's taking me back.... I loved that album also loved the cut 'Round and Round' Poly Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21563 silver scale joe shoults Sat 4/1/2000 2 KB From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 1:27 pm Subject: SV: [tadream] Re: First contact Hey, I heard TD music for years without knowing it was TD, and I loved it! In the early to mid 80s there was a science program on Norwegian TV called MAGNUS. They used Chimes & Chains as the intro, and I thought it was so cool! This was even before I knewe who Jarre was. In the early 90s I discovered TD for real and had a suspicion that the MAGNUS intro was TD, and not until 1996 when I got the 70s-90s box set I had confirmation about it. all the best, Glenn JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic From: 'joe shoults' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 2:31 pm Subject: Klaus Schulze to appear April 2 (not an April Fool's Joke) From the KS website: 'Guest appearance of Klaus Schulze in London KS will play in London on April 2nd, 'just as Manuel's guest' as Klaus said, at a concert of Manuel Göttsching in the Royal Festival Hall. More info will be in the Ashra website.' Klaus Shulze website: http://www.klaus-schulze.com/ Ashra website: http://www.ashra.com/ Ashra pic from 1973: http://www.tadream.net/images/TD_and_Ashra_1973.jpg From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 2:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator >From: 'Dave Brewer' >Reply-To: tadream@o... >To: >Subject: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator First Impressions >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 01:42:20 -0700 > >Before I started listening, I already realized that it was tangentized from >hearing the clips on the website. Personally, I don't agree with this >practice, but I respect it. It's Edgar's music after all, and he can do >what >he darn well pleases with it! It's not Edgar's music, it's Edgar, Chris, and Peter's music. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'joe shoults' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 2:51 pm Subject: silver scale > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > > Silver Scale). > *Where can I find this track, again? I've been reading about it > ...curious.... It seems like it also appeared on a live release(?) yes, they have played it live, but I don't know which shows. I have it on at least one of the old tape tree tapes, but I misplaced my key to which tapes are what shows (anybody got this?). It is also on the Wavelength OST as 'Church Theme'. (which is a great soudtrack, IMO) joe np: Schulze- Irrlicht (I wish Satz Gewintter was longer!) From: Carlo Ruggiero Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 4:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] silver scale Silver Scale has been officially released in several versions. It is on Disk 5 of the Tangetns compilation at just over 9 minutes. It is also available on Valentine Wheels with a running time of over 5 minutes. The opening part of the track does appear as Church Theme on Wavelength. If you want to hear the whole long track - get the Firenze, Italy 8 Feb 1981 concert on tape or CD-R. Essentially this track goes on for the better part of 25 minutes. Of course, it is also available on Transfer Blue Night. You may also hear the entire track on Absolutely Hypnotized - it is the second track. This track is among my favorites, as it is for so may TD fans. One of their best tracks ever. Carlo np: WestWorld by AirWave (Promo Copy) - More on it later, as I need to speak with the musician who is a personal friend > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > > > Silver Scale). > > *Where can I find this track, again? I've been reading about it > > ...curious.... It seems like it also appeared on a live release(?) > > yes, they have played it live, but I don't know which shows. I have it on > at least one of the old tape tree tapes, but I misplaced my key to which > tapes are what shows (anybody got this?). > > It is also on the Wavelength OST as 'Church Theme'. (which is a great > soudtrack, IMO) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21569 Re: silver scale Rudy Russo Sun 4/2/2000 3 KB 21570 Re: silver scale Synthhtnys@a... Sun 4/2/2000 2 KB From: 'Dave Brewer' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator -----Original Message----- From: Feldon Feldon To: tadream@o... Date: Saturday, April 01, 2000 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator It's not Edgar's music, it's Edgar, Chris, and Peter's music. -Morgan Okay, yeah, it's not really just Edgar's music. I just stated it like that because a. (it seems like) he's the one in posession/control of the recording (not Chris or Peter) and b. even though most of us (fans) would rather not see him do that to it, it's not ours to dictate what he should do with it. That's what I was getting at. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Chris and Peter had nothing to do with it. That music could never exist without their input along with Edgar's. Shame on me for trampling on one of the classic TD lineups! :-) Dave B. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Airwave Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 6:38 pm Subject: Re: Body Love Joe wrote: > np: Schulze- Body Love (has anyone seen this movie?!?) I searched for it a long time ago and found it had been deleted. No chance of ordering it anywhere, except if you can find it through 2nd hand outlets. The movie was directed by German porn director Lasse Braun, and it's only soft porn. Released by Love Film Production 1977. Starring : Lolita Da Nova (debut) Jack Gatteau Linda Verell Jean Gerard Sorlin Gilda Arancio Gemma Giminnez Music by Klaus Schulze Drums by Harald Grosskopf. Judging from the screen shots on the original LP cover you're not missing out on an exceptional porn experience ;-) Would be fun watching it though with Schulze's music ;-) NP Klaus Schulze : Body Love II --------------------------------------------------------------- __ \ O /_ Flemming Larsen, airwave@1... \/ /_ \ http:// (in the works) \ ICQ #65014061 Visit the TaDream Chat on IRC, SorceryNet, #tadream. Fridays and Saturdays 9pm-2am (GMT) (Usually ;-) Feel free to email me for details on how to access IRC. --------------------------------------------------------------- From: 'Daniel Hobrecht' Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 9:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 442 There is a live cut of Silver Scales on Valentine Wheels. -----Original Message----- From: tadream@o... [mailto:tadream@o...] Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 3:27 AM To: tadream@o... Subject: [tadream] Digest Number 442 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to forget. Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million alumni already registered, there's a good chance you'll find your friends here: http://click.egroups.com/1/2623/3/_/24785/_/954584804/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://www.tadream.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 24 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. RE: RE: Soundmill Navigator From: pergamon@g... 2. Re: Soundmill Navigator From: 'Greg' 3. Soundmill Navigator From: Heiko Heerssen 4. Digest Number 441 in quoted-printable? From: Winston Edmond 5. Rubycon revisited From: Tomas Rydqvist 6. Re: Rubycon revisited From: Vic Rek 7. RE: Great Wall of Rockoon From: Nigbur D 8. TDI Message about Soundmill Navigator From: 'Paul Fellows' 9. RE: Rubycon revisited From: 'Michael A Jean' 10. Where did it go? From: 'Hermes Guzman' 11. RE: Where did it go? From: 'Joe Shoults' 12. RE: Re: Duran Duran From: 'Joe Shoults' 13. OT: RE: Re: Duran Duran From: 'Joe Shoults' 14. SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat From: Airwave 15. Osnabrueck live photos (NEW!!!) From: Rainer Rutka 16. Re: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat From: aoutland@a... 17. OT: Mail problem From: 'Gustavo Jobim' 18. Check this out! New prog compilation album From: 'Miguel Farah F.' 19. RE: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat From: 'Jared White' 20. Mars Polaris From: 'David Foster' 21. Soundmill Navigator First Impressions From: 'Dave Brewer' 22. Re: Digest Number 441 From: Chris Richards 23. Re: First contact From: Chris Richards 24. Re: Re: First contact From: Synthhtnys@a... ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: 31 Mar 2000 11:30:23 +0100 From: pergamon@g... Subject: RE: RE: Soundmill Navigator Yes I will back you up, I can't actually recall the persons name. But there where a statement from TDI saying it wasn't tangenized. Jan > > > Not that I mind, but I thought TDI said Soundmill Navigator wasn't > > > 'tangentized?' > > > > Nope. Never said it. > > Um, yes they did. Martin Kay said as much ON THIS LIST. > I wish I had kept that particular message so I could repost it. > (Anybody else actually willing to back me on this?) > pergamon@g... ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 03:28:53 -0700 From: 'Greg' Subject: Re: Soundmill Navigator From: 'Hermes Guzman' > will ovbiously take us out of the disk. And it has. And that annoying > noise *is* a mastering flaw!! $#@^*(#^@(!!! > > Let the praise and vitriol begin. > > goozer On the second excerpt of the Soundmill Navigator clips from the TDI website, the right/left panning 'tisk tisk' can be clearly heard. It sounds particularly hypnotic to me. As far as the 'tangentizing' is concerned.. I could have told you this when the SN clips first came on the TDI site quite a while back.. I knew the high shrill sounds were not from that time! Do I care? No.. I can understand that mastering some old recordings can be difficult.. especially with drop outs and a sheer lack of a broad range of sound. I realize as with Sohoman, Soundmill Navigator probably has a lot of high range additions and probably some low range as well. I'm definately going to get this album! It will be particularly inspiring for me. Greg H. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:34:41 +0200 From: Heiko Heerssen Subject: Soundmill Navigator With all the talk about 'tangentizing' I wonder if this CD would sound the same if at least Chris Franke and/or Peter Baumann would still be in the band. Until this day I don't know exactly if Edgar alone was responsible for mastering TD's music (and therefore the person who decided how a record should sound in the end), or if past members also had control over what was to be the final 'product'. I hope to get my copy of Soundmill Navigator very soon & it will be nice to compare it with the radio broadcast versions I have. Heiko ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 05:30 EST From: Winston Edmond Subject: Digest Number 441 in quoted-printable? Yuck. Tadream digest #441 arrived in 'quoted-printable' format. Would whoever made that change please undo it. Thanks, -WBE ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:34:36 +0200 From: Tomas Rydqvist Subject: Rubycon revisited Hi folks Just question, Rubycon revisited is that a cdr from the beginning or is it a real boot?? I think i have been riped of, caus i recived a cdr with coulor label on it. Im i right or ,,,?? Thanks Totta ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:37:31 -0500 From: Vic Rek Subject: Re: Rubycon revisited > Hi folks > Just question, > Rubycon revisited is that a cdr from the beginning or is it a real > boot?? > I think i have been riped of, caus i recived a cdr with coulor label on > it. > Im i right or ,,,?? This release is a CD, NOT a CD-R. Vic ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:49:24 +0100 From: Nigbur D Subject: RE: Great Wall of Rockoon > ---------- > From: Gabe Yedid[SMTP:gabe@p...] > Reply To: tadream@o... > Sent: 31 March 2000 00:05 > To: tadream list > Cc: artofvision@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] Great Wall of Rockoon > > The rhythmic pattern from 'Girls on Broadway' is, which reappears on > 'Silence The Barking Monk' is, I believe, a preset pattern from the Korg > Wavestation, and is also used on 'Last Trumpet on 23rd Street' from _What > a Blast_. > Ah, that would explain it. I really liked the track apart from this reminder of 'Girls on Broadway', so it was a bit of a sore thumb. > This is not, IMO, the same as wholesale repackaging of > material, and I felt I had to speak out on this before somebody gets the > idea that these two tracks are remixes/retreads of earlier pieces, in the > same way that 'The Golden Horn' from _Transsiberia_ was (it's 'Turning Off > The Wheel' minus some layers). > No, I didn't mean to give the impression that this was the case. None of the tracks on 'Great Wall of China' could be considered re-mixes or alternative versions of existing tracks. A lot of the sounds, rhythms, and melodies, however, seem quite similar. > I'm pretty sure the melody and harmonic > background of 'Silence...' are quite different from those of 'Girls on > Broadway'. > The first part of the piece is very different from anything else and a very interesting and novel composition. In stark contrast, the second part is _very_ similar to 'Girls on Broadway', with the rhythmic sequence and effects being identical, and just an additional, very quiet chords/melody layer added. It really isn't very far away from 'Girls on Braodway'. > > > There are A LOT of cases on the album of Rockoon/220V material > apparently > > Would you mind mentioning some others? > The problem is that I'm writing this from work, and I haven't listened to the CD recently enough to have it all ready here. I'll give it another listen. > mold, and one piece is IMO a clear nod to '70s TD: 'The South Gate > Knights', which I think of as a sort of dark version of 'Astral Voyager'. > I agree on that one. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:34:05 +0200 From: 'Paul Fellows' Subject: TDI Message about Soundmill Navigator Hi all, Someone said something about wishing they still had the message from Martin at TDI reference 'Soundmill Navigator', and in particular whether it was 'Tangentised' or not, well here it is: >From: 'TDI - Martin K.' > >Hello, > >Soundmill Navigator is an official release, normal price. >It is a recording of a concert performed 1976 at the Philharmonie Berlin. >The recordings have been remastered but not remixed ('tangentized' as you >would call it in list jargon ;-)) >Its release date is March 30th, 2000. > >hope this helps... > >All the best, > >Martin K. >TDI- Music- Support. >Tel:-49-30-23620995 >Fax:-49-30-23620996 > >Visit our Website at: > >http://www.tdi-music-mall.de > >Have a nice day! ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:22:46 -0600 From: 'Michael A Jean' Subject: RE: Rubycon revisited Regardless of whether it is a CD or a CDR you have been ripped off anyway, because it is just awful (and not a TD project)... MJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Vic Rek [mailto:torque19@i...] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 6:38 AM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] Rubycon revisited > > > > Hi folks > > Just question, > > Rubycon revisited is that a cdr from the beginning or is it a real > > boot?? > > I think i have been riped of, caus i recived a cdr with coulor label on > > it. > > Im i right or ,,,?? > > This release is a CD, NOT a CD-R. Vic > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2646/3/_/24785/_/954506242/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:37:04 -0000 From: 'Hermes Guzman' Subject: Where did it go? Joe, Joel, Scott... Where did the reply that I posted last night to Jared's second message go? There wasn't anything in there that would've offended anyone, as I don't attach personal attacks to such subjective matters. So wher'd it go? I saw it this morning.... goozer ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:16:33 -0500 From: 'Joe Shoults' Subject: RE: Where did it go? > -----Original Message----- > From: Hermes Guzman > Where did the reply that I posted last night to Jared's second > message go? what do you mean? Nothing has been deleted... send it again if you need to. keep in mind the view is different in the archives when you 'View by Thread'. joe shoults np: Schulze- Body Love (has anyone seen this movie?!?) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:14:48 -0500 From: 'Joe Shoults' Subject: RE: Re: Duran Duran yup. dat wuz moi. actually, Hungry like the wolf, the most popular song on the album was the weakest, IMO. But I think that about a lot of albums... joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Richards [mailto:kohntarkosz@y...] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 2:18 AM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] Re: Duran Duran > > > Someone sited Duran Duran's The Chauffer as a > great song. I'll second that one! The first coule > Duran albums had some cool songs on em, and that > was my favorite. > > NP: Charles Mingus 'Girl Of My Dreams' (Mingus Ah > Um) > > ===== > May you never thirst! > The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris > > 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/3/_/24785/_/954487092/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:52:03 -0500 From: 'Joe Shoults' Subject: OT: RE: Re: Duran Duran oops. dammit! meant for off-list. sorry (again). ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 02:12:38 +0100 From: Airwave Subject: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat Hi everyone. About a month ago I sent an invitation to Edgar and Jerome to join the chat on IRC for a fan meeting. This was to take place sometime whenever they could find the time to so. Today 01/04/2000 I got the confirmation. Edgar and Jerome will join us on #tadream on SorceryNet tonight 01/04/2000 at 10pm (GMT) on IRC for a 1 hour meeting. I know this is short notice, but as schedules has made it impossible to give advanced notice there has been nothing I could do. Join us if you can. A transscript of the chat will be posted as soon as the meeting is over. mIRC for PC can be downloaded at www.mirc.com It is fairly easy to set up. --------------------------------------------------------------- __ \ O /_ AirWave, airwave@1... \/ /_ \ http:// (in the works) \ ICQ #65014061 Visit the TaDream Chat on IRC, SorceryNet, #tadream. Fridays and Saturdays 9pm-2am (GMT) (Usually ;-) Feel free to email me for details on how to access IRC. --------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 02:17:28 -0100 (MEZ) From: Rainer Rutka Subject: Osnabrueck live photos (NEW!!!) Hi! Just for your pleasure! While I was sufing though the internet I found some very interesting TD related sites. Some of them are strange. And I found some new (for me!) photos from the Klangart/Osnabrueck concert last year. The strange thing was: I found it on a smokers- fansite. Yes a site for smokers / tabako fans! And I found a very interesting TD page from Switzerland. See my updated links seite : www.rutka.de/td -> links or the updated Klangart pate: www.rutka.de/td -> klangart pictures (left). Or: www.schmauch.de/99-06-12/99-06-12-Katalog.html (this is the Klangart page only) Unfortunately these sites are in the german language (but we have some nice pictures). Rainer PS: I will ship the next Solar-Eclipse CDs on monday. --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:52:55 EST From: aoutland@a... Subject: Re: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat In a message dated 03/31/2000 7:10:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, airwave@1... writes: << Edgar and Jerome will join us on #tadream on SorceryNet tonight 01/04/2000 at 10pm (GMT) on IRC for a 1 hour meeting. >> Is this an April Fool's joke? 8-) Dell ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 00:16:36 EST From: 'Gustavo Jobim' Subject: OT: Mail problem Hello all, I've been having problems with my email server, so I'll be using the Hotmail address for now. If anyone sent me anything and got no reply, please send again to this address: gustavofj@h... . The problem should be solved soon. And sorry for the OT message! G.F.Jobim - GFJM: http://gfjm.cjb.net p.s. If you know any free (and good) POP mail account provider, please tell me! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 18 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 00:14:14 -0400 From: 'Miguel Farah F.' Subject: Check this out! New prog compilation album Hi all. I found this on another music-related mailing list I am subscribed to, and I thought you might be interested: NEW COMPILATION ALBUM THE WORLD'S MOST IMPORTANT PROGRESSIVE RAP Proghead Music is proud to present the most important progressive rap songs ever, all together in a unique compilation album. This compilation is not about the 'hits' or the most popular tracks, it is instead about the most *important* songs: the ones that helped define the genre and posed the biggest influence (of course, everyone knows that means these are the best!). Get this album and you will have all there is needed to fully understand and enjoy progressive rap! THE WORLD'S MOST IMPORTANT PROGRESSIVE RAP's track listing is: Disc 1: 1. Nemesis - Invisible Couch 2. Queen Crimson - Bohemian Discipline 3. Gabriel Peters - Spank the Monkey 4. Steele Bracket - Spectral Moanings 5. Rust - Free Willy 6. Genitals A-Giant - Asspirations 7. Emerson, Lake and Hammer - Love Bitch 8. Tangerine Theater - Images and Logos 9. Queen Crimson - 23rd Century Schizoid Narn 10. The Notorious A.P. - Pervert Aunts And Nieces Disc 2: 11. Gabriel Peters - I Go Sniffing 12. Scott's Mustache - The Blight 13. Emerson, Lake and Hammer - Lucky Strike 14. Kink Freud - The Wart 15. Nemesis - Seven Stoned 16. Affirmative - The Bladder 17. Genitals A-Giant - Nigga Cat 18. Keith E - Wanky 19. Rust - Bitch Hunt 20. ICQ - Subterfugia Catalog number: PRGH0401 Go to your favorite music store and buy your copy NOW! ATTENTION: if you buy directly from Proghead Music's on-line store, you'll get a bonus single with Mellotronic's 'Pump Up The Hammond' and 'This Beat Is Mellotronic' for FREE! Go to http://www.usenet.cl/proghead-music right away!!! -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel@w... #include // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> 'Trust me - I know what I'm doing.' - Sledge Hammer ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:32:35 -0800 From: 'Jared White' Subject: RE: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat Yes, it has nothing to do with reality. Unfortunately.... :( Weird, Jared > -----Original Message----- > From: aoutland@a... [mailto:aoutland@a...] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 5:53 PM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: Re: [tadream] SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat > > > In a message dated 03/31/2000 7:10:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, > airwave@1... writes: > > << > Edgar and Jerome will join us on #tadream on SorceryNet > tonight 01/04/2000 at 10pm (GMT) on IRC for a 1 hour meeting. > >> > > Is this an April Fool's joke? 8-) Dell ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:16:09 +0100 From: 'David Foster' Subject: Mars Polaris Astrophobia is favourite track at the moment. UK news says that it's official........NASA underspent on the project by 33%....probably why the first mission shot past and the second crashed. What I really want to know is.......when the workers at NASA backup the car in the parking lot every day, do they use feet and inches or convert into metric? 'Sorry, Honey, I crashed the car this morning, I couldn't calculate the velocity of that back wall...the space was 33% smaller than I expected.' David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 21 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 01:42:20 -0700 From: 'Dave Brewer' Subject: Soundmill Navigator First Impressions After Goozer was able to get a copy from his local Borders, I thought I'd check mine today. Lo and behold, they had a copy, so I snagged it up quick! They also had a copy of Tang Go there as well, but since I have everything on there except the two tracks from the Dream Dice bonus disc, I passed. I also saw a copy of GWoC there, with a slightly different cover art than mine. (mine has a white border around the front, whereas this one had no border) Again, my condolences to those who must collect every variant of artwork... ;-) Before I started listening, I already realized that it was tangentized from hearing the clips on the website. Personally, I don't agree with this practice, but I respect it. It's Edgar's music after all, and he can do what he darn well pleases with it! Still, I do wish he'd leave the vintage recordings alone, except for cleaning up the sound quality as best as possible. But like I said, he can do what he feels is best for the music. Now, my first impression was listening in the car. I know, that's not the best place to listen to music, since it has to compete with all sorts of noise. But, that's just the way it is, to quote Bruce Hornsby. :-) Even tho it's modern, I do like the intro quite a bit! Some very interesting sound layers in there! But after three minutes into it, some annoying sound comes on. It sounds like a looped sample of someone spraying glass cleaner on something, panning back and forth in the stereo image. At first I think it's just part of one of the keyboard sounds, since a lot of the modern keyboard sounds have all sorts of little effects like that in them. After a while, some vintage mellotron sounds start seeping through. That 'spray' sound is still around... Some more time passes, and some excellent sequencer sounds come to life... Spray sound continues to be there... Starting to distract me... The sequencers get more active, and then Edgar's guitar begins to sing. Ahhhh, wonderful-waitaminute... That spray sound is still going! I'm really starting to focus more on that than the rest of the music. It's kinda hard for me not to, since it's what I can hear the easiest in the car! Anyway, you probably get my drift. That spray sound just continues to be there, and makes it hard to listen to the rest of the music. The piece eventually ends with the same figure it started with, which I like. They're still spraying away tho and I've been hearing it for almost 40 minutes straight now! The combination of hearing that sound constantly for that long and enduring rush hour traffic at the same time is really fraying my nerves! The spray sound doesn't end until the disc does... Ugh! This 'spray' sound I've been fixating on must be the sound Goozer was mentioning. I'm not sure what it is or if it was intentional or not. But either way, it is a mastering flaw. If it is a keyboard sound, they probably shouldn't have had it going for about 38 minutes straight. And if it is something on the tape or something like that, then they should have noticed it in the monitor speakers as they were mastering it and did something about it. Okay so I was listening to it in the car, maybe it will sound more balanced and the constant 'fffft fffft fffft fffft' won't be as noticeable on my home stereo. But this is one of those things that makes you wonder, 'what the hell is that?!' Putting that sound aside, I like the disc. Yeah, it could be longer, and do without modern overdubs, but it's still good. But if we can find out what the deal is with this sound, then I could rest easier. :-) Speaking of rest... It is late, and I must sleep now... Good night, all! Dave Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 22 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 01:19:53 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Richards Subject: Re: Digest Number 441 <> Wow!! I had no idea such a thing existed. I have part of his first solo concert, which was televised live on MTV on New Year's Eve 86. I remember because it opened it with a version of Thin Lizzy's Rosalie/The Cowgirl Song. Well, actually, Rosalie is a Bob Seger song, but Lizzy covered it, and when they performed it onstage, they would stick a little Cowboy Song tease in (hence 'The Cowgirl Song' part of the title). Well, Andy does this PERFECT performance of the song, very faithful to the version on Lizzy's 'not so live' live album, Live And Dangerous, the only real difference being that they he had a power trio and was therefore the only guitarist, and he didn't sing during the Cowgirl Song bit. Well, after Andy's set, one of the original MTV VJ's, that shmuck Mark Goodman, comes on and says 'Andy opened with Rosalie, the old Bob Seger song', and didn't even TRY to point out the obvious tip of the hat to Lizzy (probably in commeration of their leader Phil Lynott, who had passed away the previous January). :-P Yeah, this is has nothing to do with TD, but this does: Does anyone have the untampered with version of the Soundmill Navigator show? WP: Kiss 'Rock N Roll All Night' (Dressed To Kill) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 23 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 01:46:11 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Richards Subject: Re: First contact Well, with me, it was a bit weird. I got into rock music real early. Like when I was two! My oldest brother was always playing Uriah Heep, Kiss, Peter Frampton, that sorta stuff. So, very early on, I knew I wanted to be a guitarist. By the time I was 10, I was reading whatever I could find about music, reading guitar magazines, and also borrowing whatever books I could find about musical instruments from the library. Including books about synthesizers. I remember seeing Tangerine Dream mentioned in a book called Rock Hardware, which was an occasionally inaccurate (according to the authors, Elvis Costello played a Fender Jaguar during the early part of his career...it was actually a Jazzmaster) book that had a picture of Chris Franke onstage, sometime in the late 70's or early 80's, maybe. I remember the caption said he used a customised modular synth, a Elka string synth and I forget what else. >From there, I think next I saw a book that Keyboard magazine put out, I think just called Electronic Music. This book consisted largely of reprinted articles, one of which was on Tangerine Dream. I think it was from around 81 or 82, I know it was configured as an interview with the entire group, but not all of them were present (it was something like Chris starting the interview, then Johannes walked in half way through and joined the interview, and then Edgar was interviewed seperately). I also remember them talking about, I think, the soundtrack to Theif, and how they didn't like the way it was used during the last 10 or 15 minutes of the movie, with the music fading in and out. I think it was Chris who also talked about the idea of doing a soundtrack for a movie that no one see...they would just hear the music they created for the visuals. I also remember this photo from 80 or so, maybe from the Pergammon, and they just had TONS of gear onstage!!! That looked impressive to this 11 year old!!!! Anyway, somewhere in there, I saw Wavelength on TV. Two things that stand out in my mind: this is what Cherie Currie did after The Runaways broke up(Ya remember The Runaways, the band that Joan Jett and Lita Ford played in!!! Anyway, Cherie played the female lead in this movie, the blond who had the psychic link with the extraterrestrials). I remember really liking the music that was played over the closing credits, and I spotted the words TANGERINE DREAM in the credits, listed under 'Music by' or some such. I'm not sure exactly WHEN it was, but somewhere in there, maybe around 85 or so, I finally bought Tangram. I think I went to the record store, and saw four or five albums, probably mainly the Virgin stuff. I think I picked Tangram because of the two or three records that I had the money to buy, I think this one impressed because there was one track on each side. So I bought it. I can't really verbalise what I thought of Set I at the time. What a wonderful piece of music! I remember laying on the couch in the wood panelled basement, listening to that album on the stereo. I just remember really liking the way the whole thing unfolds so perfectly. I also remember it was ages before I really got into side two, and in fact, for a long time, I couldn't even remember what it sounded like, but it's very sweet as well. A great album. So as the next few years went by, I bought whatever vinyl I could. I remember buying Rubycon, and borrowing the old Relativity double CD version of Zeit from the library (and being disappointed at how 'uneventful' the music seemed). I remember going to one store (which later burned down) and asking them to play a little bit of Encore on the turntable before I bought, as I feared it would be like Zeit (I like Zeit now, btw, but then, I just couldn't get into it). After hearing about 5 seconds of whichever track the person played (she dropped the needle in a random place, I think), I said 'I'LL TAKE IT!'. I also remember getting the old Virgin issues of Cyclone, Force Majeur, and Logos on CD (the latter two I bought when I was living in San Diego). Then, I eventually found people who had bootlegs and I started doing tape trades and got some stuff. I remember actually buying a couple bootleg videos (non-TD ones) at a record store, and taking them back a week later because I was dissatisfied and exchanging them for the Tangents set, that had to have been something like 95 or so (because I tried to listen to the entire set in sequential order, it took me AGES to discover Silver Scale). Well, that's a bit more than just the first contact thing, but at least I didn't go on about the dude I met who maintains that TD should have released the Reims performance way back when! :-) NP: Aerosmith 'No More, No More' (Toys In The Attic) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 24 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 04:56:49 EST From: Synthhtnys@a... Subject: Re: Re: First contact In a message dated 4/1/2000 9:46:51 AM !!!First Boot!!!, kohntarkosz@y... writes: << (because I tried to listen to the entire set in sequential order, it took me AGES to discover Silver Scale). *Where can I find this track, again? I've been reading about it lately and am curious.... It seems like it also appeared on a live release(?) NP: Aerosmith 'No More, No More' (Toys In The Attic)>> *oh now that's taking me back.... I loved that album also loved the cut 'Round and Round' Poly ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21585 Re: Digest Number 442 joe shoults Mon 4/3/2000 2 KB From: Airwave Date: Sat Apr 1, 2000 10:49 pm Subject: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat To those who didn't notice. Today was April 1st. Aprils fool ! Quite a few people fell for it. Hope you weren't too unhappy with it ;-))) ------------------------------------------------------------- > Subject: SENSATION : Edgar and Jerome to join chat > > Hi everyone. > > About a month ago I sent an invitation to Edgar and Jerome > to join the chat on IRC for a fan meeting. This was to take > place sometime whenever they could find the time to so. > > Today 01/04/2000 I got the confirmation. > > Edgar and Jerome will join us on #tadream on SorceryNet > tonight 01/04/2000 at 10pm (GMT) on IRC for a 1 hour meeting. > > I know this is short notice, but as schedules has made it > impossible to give advanced notice there has been nothing > I could do. Join us if you can. A transscript of the > chat will be posted as soon as the meeting is over. > > mIRC for PC can be downloaded at www.mirc.com > It is fairly easy to set up. --------------------------------------------------------------- AirWave. From: Rudy Russo Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 1:53 am Subject: Re: [tadream] silver scale Brussels, 1981 or 1982, forget which. Don't have it right in front of me. The unabridged version rules! Rude --- joe shoults wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Synthhtnys@a... > [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > > > Silver Scale). > > *Where can I find this track, again? I've been > reading about it > > ...curious.... It seems like it also appeared on a > live release(?) > > yes, they have played it live, but I don't know > which shows. I have it on > at least one of the old tape tree tapes, but I > misplaced my key to which > tapes are what shows (anybody got this?). > > It is also on the Wavelength OST as 'Church Theme'. > (which is a great > soudtrack, IMO) > > joe > > np: Schulze- Irrlicht (I wish Satz Gewintter was > longer!) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as > low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/3/_/24785/_/954601178/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 3:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] silver scale In a message dated 4/2/2000 1:54:58 AM !!!First Boot!!!, rudy_russo@y... writes: << Brussels, 1981 or 1982, forget which. Don't have it right in front of me. The unabridged version rules! Rude >> * A kind soul tipped me off that it was on oct. 13 1980 Brussels.... I've listened to it a couple of times.... the more I listen to it , the more it sounds like a variation of a sequence off Poland (still cool, but I was familiar with it, and was kind of hoping for something new and earth-shattering...) Poly From: Chris Richards Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 7:27 am Subject: Re: Duran Duran <> Yeah, me too! I'm always in the position of getting responses like 'never heard of it' when I name my favorite songs by a lot of bands. For some reason, I'm just drawn more to the obscure tunes, maybe because the record company thought they were too quirky or whatever to put on a single. Of course, I thought the idea of having that entire instrumental verse at the start of Hungry Like The Wolf to be completely superfluous. Another good example of that is The Buggles. I don't actually have either of their albums, but I do have the Video Killed The Radio Star single, and I actually like the B side, Kid Dynamo, better than the hit! NP: WRUW 91.1 FM in Cleveland, and streaming MP3 at radio.cwru.edu in the rest of the world! :-) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Chris Richards Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 7:35 am Subject: Re:Silver Scale/Aerosmith << (because I tried to listen to the entire set in sequential order, it took me AGES to discover Silver Scale). *Where can I find this track, again? I've been reading about it lately and am curious.... It seems like it also appeared on a live release(?)>> It's on the Tangents boxset, and I believe there's also a version on one of the recent live releases (Valentine's Wheel?). I only know the version on Tangents, so I can't advise on the live version. <> *oh now that's taking me back.... I loved that album also loved the cut 'Round and Round'>> Yeah, that's a great song too! My favorite track on that album, actually, is You See Me Crying. There's a story that back around 85 or so, the original lineup got together to have dinner for the first time in like 5 years. Supposedly, someone up some music on the stereo, apparently putting on the Toys In The Attic album, and when You See Me Crying came on, Steven Tyler said 'Hey, that's a cool song!!! We should do a cover of that! Who is it?' and Joe Perry said 'That's US! Remember? You made us hire a 90 piece orchestra for it!'. But anyway, there's another example of my preference for the obscure tunes! :-) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: 'David Foster' Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 7:45 am Subject: SkyNewsReport Music: Hawkwind are to rerelease their album 'In search of Space' with the bonus track 'Uncle Sam's.......NOT..........on Mars'. At the Oscars: It is rumoured Roswell Film Studios are to ask TD to do the music for the remake of the classic film starring David Bowie - 'The man who fell to Earth' The Weather: Florida: It will be cloudy with occasional cloud breaks Mars: High winds and low visibility may prove dangerous for interplanetary vessels. Sports News: Mars 2 Earth 1 News Just In: At Crater, Colorado, archaeologists have discovered a red saucerlike structure. An inscription bears the words 'Been there, Done that, Bought The T-Shirt.' Government is to send NASA scientists to investigate. News brought to you by Rockitman The Man who fell to Mirth In our next bulletin things will be strictly on topic. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 9:32 am Subject: Discussion Week 29 - Sunday 2nd April 2000 This week covers two more soundtracks. Deadly Care and Canyon Dreams. Please make your subject read 'D:Soundtrack [Deadly Care]' or 'D:Soundtrack [Canyon Dreams]' as appropriate when posting comments or reviews. I notice that discussions/reviews are becoming a bit thin on the ground these days..... Please note my new email address below. Regards, Lawry NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: horrod6 Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 10:54 am Subject: Recycling IMO, the policy of not listening to previous releases could contribute to the 'recycling' effect. After all, the band in its various line-ups has released an incredible amount of material. So if Edgar (or any other band member) finds this incredible riff running through their head, can they be sure they haven't already used it? And if it's good and it fits the new piece they are developing, does it really matter? Even if there wasn't a _policy_ of not listening to previously released material, can you really see them going back over hundreds (thousands?) of hours of material, just to make sure that the new piece doesn't recycle an old tune? LnH Marion From: horrod6 Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 10:54 am Subject: Re: Soundmill Navigator Goozer - thanks for one of the most atmospheric reviews ever! (Think I'll avoid this one unless the 'tssst' noise _does_ turn out to be a pressing flaw and gets corrected.) LnH Marion From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 11:57 am Subject: D:Soundtrack [Deadly Care] Deadly Care (1987) - Soundtrack released 1992 1. Deadly Care Main Theme (4:56) 2. Paddles/Stolen Pills (2:54) 3. A Strong Drink/A Bad Morning (2:00) 4. Wasted And Sick (1:22) 5. Hope For Future (4:01) 6. The Hospital (5:42) 7. In Bed (1:52) 8. Annie And Father (1:25) 9. More Pills (1:26) 10. In The Head Nurses Office/At Father's Grave (1:26) 11. Clean And Sober (4:02) Froese/Franke. Some quotes from the cover.... 'The movie details the slow decline of Annie as professional and personal pressures slowly pull her into alcohol and drug abuse. Since the process of the decline is a slow one, so is the music of Tangerine Dream. The music tends to be slower paced and downbeat to reinforce the character's mental and physical self-destruction from chemical dependence. Scenes of tension filled emergencies have the familiar sequencer rhythms. This helps relieve the dark and moody score that prevails for most of the movie.' and... 'The music on this CD is not the edited versions used in the movie. This is all of the music in the full length versions as supplied by Tangerine Dream to Universal Studios.' If only that second quote were true of all soundtrack albums! (Hey Keep fans? :-) ) Well, I suppose the first quote explains partly why I don't really like this album much. Slow, downbeat, dark and moody are words taken from the quote above, and they are probably all of the qualities I dislike most about TD. I love the stomping rhythms and sequences, tinkly melodies and repeated phrases. Slow chord changes repeated for five minutes with little or no development, and with a semblance of a melody over the top just don't usually do it for me, unless it is an exceptionally moving piece. Unfortunately, none of the pieces on this album are exceptionally moving. TD just can't really produce many of those style of pieces. Maybe one decent one every 5 years. The excel (or excelled) at driving multilayered sequences. At just over 32 minutes long, this album, nowadays could almost be classed as a CD-single! I suppose allowances must be made for the fact that this is a soundtrack, and therefore composed with specific goals and images in mind. Highlights of the album are the last minute of track 6. Uptempo sequence... but unfortunately just repeated for 1 minute with no changes. Track seven which is a short but unusual (in as much as it differs from the rest of the album) piece. Dark and percussive, yet too short to actually develop into much. This track could have been something if it had been grown to a full blown track. The rest of the album is very 'take it or leave it' and I choose, mostly, to leave it. Regards, Lawry Simm PS - Please note my new email address below. NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21659 Re: D:Soundtrack [Deadly Care] Lawry Simm Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB From: 'kayleigh' Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 12:25 pm Subject: TD MP3 files Hey there all. Wanted to post something sort of on subject with TD. I'd asked in the past related to Mp3 files, AND have been told that since trading is so open and there is SO MUCH out there (NOT getting onto this subject again), just thought I'd bring it up. A friend of mine referred me to a site http://www.napster.com and this stuff is totally AMAZING. Everytime you're online, you automatically connect to a complete server of MP3 files and this means AnYONE that is linked to the napster network also is always immediately available. IF you go into the library/search section (like a search engine), and simply type on the name of the band you're looking for, IF there is anyone online that has accessable TD stuff (or any other band for that fact), you can set it up to auto download (as long as the other computer stays online, you can keep going continuously) Just wanted to pass it along that I was able to find about 80 TD Related files (all music files, NOTHING that was commercially available) if anyone is interested. Also for a short note, I DO NOT always openly speak about this stuff, BUT for those of you that do get offended by trading/MP3 files, etc, I don't think I have YET to find someone who would NOT buy anything that is commercially available. Myself, I always want the REAL THING, not a copy. Just isn't the same. BUT to share information/music is something I've loved doing, that's why this post. Anyone out there that even TOUCHES sound files or Mp3 files, USE this napster program. Believe me, it's the wave of music online. dan Kayleigh's Playhouse! http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! ICQ#1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 Yahoo Pager: kayleigh_tootiehoot From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 12:39 pm Subject: D:Soundtrack [Canyon Dreams] Canyon Dreams (1987) 1. Shadow Flyer (5:53) 2. Canyon Carver (4:17) 3. Water's Gift (5:24) 4. Canyon Voices (4:26) 5. Sudden Revelation (4:46) 6. A Matter Of Time (8:53) 7. Purple Nightfall (2:04) 8. Colorado Dawn (4:26) (not found on the video release) Froese/Franke/Haslinger except track 8 composed by Jerome Froese (His first TD outing?). Interesting to note that the cover says all tracks performed by FFH and then says all tracks composed by FFH except track 8. This to me implies that Jerome did not actually play track 8, but merely gave his composition to his dad and the boys to play. In fact, Mysterious Semblance (A Tangerine Dream Chronology by Scott Plumer) also draws the same conclusion. I actually had the video for this long before the CD. So the first time I heard the music, I actually saw the visuals that it was composed to compliment. I remember being struck by how well the music fitted the images. The album opens with a great track that despite being nearly six minutes long, just seems to fly by. Quite an apt title in fact. Whilst the instrumental choices made could be construed to be cheesy, they actually manage to put them together well here. Quite 'New Age' in orchestration - pan pipes etc, yet still unmistakably TD. Whilst nothing on the album is truly exceptional, nothing is truly dire either. All tracks are average to above average. Highlights for me must be the track Canyon Voices (for which there is a midi file knocking around somewhere) and Shadow Flyer. Low point would be track 5, which is another of those slow meandering pieces. No doubt Dell would love it! :-) This whole album reminds me a great deal of Le Parc. Similar sounds and compositional structure, and as Le Parc is one of my top ten TD albums, then it's hardly a surprise to see that this also makes it in the illustrious list. Not played very often I must admit, as I tend to gravitate towards 1978-1983 when picking an album out at random, but a nice revisit all the same. This for me is a 3AS. Regards, Lawry NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21580 Re: D:Soundtrack [Canyon Dreams] Michael A Jean Sun 4/2/2000 3 KB From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 2:53 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D:Soundtrack [Canyon Dreams] Since you have the video, you will note that Jerome's Colorado Dawn doesn;t appear on the video. Since the video came out in 1987 and the CD didn't show up until 1991, I suspect COLORADO DAWN was actually composed and performed by Jerome in 1991 as a bonus track to encourage us to buy it. Jerome was in the band by that time. I recall his first official performance on CD t be on 1989s Lily on The Beach, where he played guitar on the track Radio City. MJ > Froese/Franke/Haslinger except track 8 composed by Jerome Froese (His > first TD outing?). Interesting to note that the cover says all tracks > performed by FFH and then says all tracks composed by FFH except track > 8. This to me implies that Jerome did not actually play track 8, but > merely gave his composition to his dad and the boys to play. In fact, > Mysterious Semblance (A Tangerine Dream Chronology by Scott Plumer) > also draws the same conclusion. > > I actually had the video for this long before the CD. So the first > time I heard the music, I actually saw the visuals that it was > composed to compliment. I remember being struck by how well the music > fitted the images. From: Michael V Miller Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 5:54 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator Hi all, I just got Soundmill Navigator and I did not hear the sound you all were talking about. Or I am hearing it and I just think it is a part of the music? Sounds great to me. Mike 'The LORD said to me that He loved me. I asked 'How much?' He said, 'This much.' and streached out His arms and died on a cross for me.' ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: 'David Foster' Date: Sun Apr 2, 2000 6:00 pm Subject: SkyNewsChannel After the break we return to 'Who wants to be a zillionaire' where Arfur C Quark is being asked 'What do Mars and the London Millenium Dome have in common'. Is it answer: A They are embarrasing for politicans at the moment? B Intelligent life hasn't been discovered there yet? C They lack atmosphere? D It costs a fortune to get there? Stay tuned for the answer.................. Still playing Astrophobia from Mars Polaris. Rockitman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 7:40 am Subject: Ffft Ffft Ffft Ffft (Soundmill Navigator) Hi Gang, I received my copy of 'Soundmill Navigator' last Friday & since then I heard the CD 3 or 4 times. I already had the original recording on tape and to me this was and still is an absolute EM masterpiece and one (if not the best) as yet unreleased live recordings from TD. When someone should ask me what's so special about electronic music...well, this is what it's all about. Knowing that the original track had a length of 30 minutes it was clear to me that we get another 'tangentized' version and I approached the music with a bit less enthusiasm. But I have to admit that the first 10 minutes (which have nothing to do with the original recording!) were excellent and very promising. But unfortunately these new sounds continue throughout the whole track and at some point it was really hard for me to identify the vintage sounds as they were way too low in the mix. Less is more but you won't find that on 'Soundmill Navigator'. If you think that 'Sohoman' was over-produced, wait until you've heard this one. And to make it even worse, there is an absolute distracting sound (others have mentioned it too) which starts after 3 minutes and which is completely nerve-racking. By now you will be aware that I'm not that satisfied with 'Soundmill Navigator'. And this mastering flaw (or whatever it is) almost urges me to ask: 'Can I have my money back?' Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21596 Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) Rainer Rutka Mon 4/3/2000 2 KB