From: 'joe shoults' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 9:48 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 442 Thanks for the info, but please don't use Digest numbers as subjects (like in this one), and please don't quote the entire digest in your replies! Thanks again, joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Hobrecht [mailto:hobrecht@e...] > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 4:39 PM > To: tadream@o... > Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 442 > > > There is a live cut of Silver Scales on Valentine Wheels. > From: Glynn.Naughton@a... Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 11:42 am Subject: Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Hello there, Well folks, let me tell you about the interesting day I had yesterday. At about midday, I suddenly remembered 'Hey, isn't it today that Ash Ra Tempel (aka Klaus Schulze and Manuel Goettsching) are playing at the Royal Festival Hall?' A quick call to the box office confirmed that this was indeed the case and that there were seats available. The concert kicked off at 7 and I was there at six for a look around. The show was part of a mini-festival called 'Cornucopia' organised by Julian Cope. The first thing I noticed was that the audience didn't seem to be your typical Krautrock crowd. In fact, many of them looked like throwback punks. I suspected that they were there for Cope rather than the other stuff. There were plenty of them, though, enough to more or less fill the hall. Maybe I'm a bit of a snob, but I thought they were a pretty unsavoury, not to mention malodourous, bunch that didn't really fit in at the RFH, which I've only ever been to previously for classical concerts. Somewhow, I couldn't see them enjoying a Klaus Schulze gig. At 7, some bloke came out to announce that an act called 'Coil' would kick off the proceedings, followed by a set from Cope, then a set from Ashra. 'Bollocks!' I thought, imagining that it would not be much fun sitting through the kind of stuff that smelly, green-haired people like before getting onto the proper music. And how right I was! The stage consisted of a semicirle of tables draped with white cloths. On these were sitting what I think were VCS3s. 'Coil' consisted of four blokes dressed in radiation suits who walked slowly around the stage shining lights in each other's eyes and occasionally twisting knobs on the synthesisers. The first track consisted of a deep bass drone that went on for about 15 minutes, overlaid with samples referring to 'the industrial use of semen' and some woman talking about how she was the guardian of the library, or something. The second track kicked off with some random-sounding atonal sequences before settling into another deep bass drone that went on for about 35 minutes. The final track was mercifully short and consisted mainly of birdsong. I can quite comfortably say that this was the worst set I have ever heard. Appalling, unadulterated trash. It was worse than unmusical. It was amusical. 'Coil' should be stood against a wall and machine-gunned. After this, there was no way I was going to subject myself to Cope's set. Fortunately, the RFH has a good bookshop that you can browse away an hour or so in. I was back to hear the end of Cope's set from outside the auditorium, which sounded like pretty bog-standard pop songs. This only seemed to emphasise the wierd, schizoprenic nature of the event. Anyway, Cope was finished by 9.30, so it was back into the auditorium to watch Ashra's gear being set up. I watched this from virtually on the stage. The RFH has several rows of seats along each side of the auditorium that face across the hall, rather than forwards. The furthest forward are well beyond the front of the stage; to watch a concert from here you'd be level with the perfomers and looking at them in profile. As the lights dimmed it was clear that no-one was going to come and claim the seats so I thought 'What the hell - I'll just stay here.' I got probably the best seat in the house - In effect, I was sitting on the stage, about 30 feet away from Klaus and with a clear enough view to see everything that he was doing. Not bad considering that I had just turned up on the day. The stage was set up as per a typical Klaus concert - i.e. with the 'Moog wall' with its bank of blinking lights. Goettsching was over to the other side of the stage playing what looked like a lap steel guitar. Goettsching looked like a mild-mannered college professor, Shulze like an old, fat version of Kiefer Sutherland wearing a white shroud. From the very first notes it was apparent that this was going to be, in everything but name, a Klaus Shulze concert. All the classic Schulzian elements were there. I suspect that the 'Ashra reunion' angle was nothing more than a marketing ploy. Needless to say, being a bit of a Klaus fan, I was immensely pleased by this. The set consisted of two 40-ish minute pieces with the usual - dark, minor key chord sequences, Moog solos. The last section of the second piece was a real thrash which reminded me of TD circa 1977, with Goettsching doing his best Edgar impersonation. It was interesting to see that Klaus does *not* do a Milli Vanilli impersonation live. He was clearly playing his keyboards - usually solos, but with some chordal work and even some bass lines in the left hand. Anyway. by the end of the show, about 60% of the original audience were left, some looking a little nonplussed, some clearly Schulze fans who, like me, had come to see The Man Himself and were not really interested in all the Copian bollocks that surrounded his concert. My only regret was not taking along my trusty little tape recorder which has served me well in making decent-quality tapes of concerts. This time I had decided that I just wanted to relax and enjoy the music without worrying about whether the tape was still running. Needless to say, I now think the worry would have been a small price to pay for a memento of an excellent concert. Ah well, you can't have everything... Glynn From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Glynn.Naughton@a... wrote: > Well folks, let me tell you about the interesting day I had yesterday. Hey Glynn, thanks very much for putting up your review, it was very entertaining :-) Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21588 Re: Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Synthhtnys@a... Mon 4/3/2000 2 KB 21610 Re: Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall John Marchington Tue 4/4/2000 4 KB 21625 Re: Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Nigbur D Tue 4/4/2000 4 KB 21628 Re: Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Heiko Heerssen Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 12:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Thanks for the notes on the show, Glynn I would have loved to have been there, but low budget and an ocean made things difficult... there were sporadic notes on other lists about the show, and so far a unanimous 'COIL SUCKS' vibe has emanated from each one..... Poly From: Armin Theissen Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 12:08 pm Subject: Ohr re-releases!!!! Hi, some of you may be interested in this. A friend of mine in Germany send me this mail, I'll translate it afterwards. I really wonder why such information does not appear on the TD websites. Hallo Armin, Gerade fällt mir noch was ein: Wußtest Du schon, daß kürzlich die ersten vier TD-Platten (d.h. die für das Ohr-Label) auf Vinyl in audiophiler Aufmachung (180 g) und mit den originalen Klappcovern wiederveröffentlicht worden sind? 'Electronic Meditation' habe ich mir bereits zugelegt, das lohnt sich schon alleine wegen des Klappentextes. Auch von Popol Vuh gibt's wieder die alten Aufnahmen auf dickem Vinyl (Label: Think Progressive - sind auch im Netz). Ich habe mir mal ein paar davon angehört - die krautrockartigen sind nicht so ganz mein Fall, aber einige Titel sind wirklich sehr schön (z.B. In den Gärten Pharaos, Aguirre). Das nur als Tip. translation: Hi Armin, just comes into my mind: Did you know that the first four TD albums (those from the Ohr Label) have been re-released in Vinyl in audiophil quality (180 gramm) with original gate fold sleeves? I've already bought 'Electronic Meditation', already worth the money because of the text inside. Also re-released old records of Popol Vuh on thick Vinyl (Label: Think Progressive - also on the web). I listened to some of them - the Krautrock type ones are not my cup of tea, but some tracks are really beautiful (for instance 'In den Gaerten Pharaos, Aguirre'). Just a hint From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 12:55 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] TD MP3 files - KILL THIS THREAD BEFORE IT BEGINS Sorry, but- We've stated time and again that we can discuss just about any aspect of boots, but we will not facilitate the business or the actual trading of them. Napster falls into that category. Please do not perpetuate this thread on this list. thank you, joe > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 8:26 AM > To: Tangerine Dream List > Subject: [tadream] TD MP3 files > ... From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 1:10 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator Some few words about 'Soundmill Navigator' & the way it has been released officially by Edgar... a few minutes ago I heard it for the 5th time but still can't quite understand why Mr. Froese had to re-arrange this track so much. I guess almost everyone on this list can't deny how important and influential electronic music has become over the last years/decades and to hear as yet unreleased music from the 70's would have underlined the importance of this truly unique band. TD did so many wonderful music during the 70's which until now hasn't seen the light of day, that to hear this music as it was actually played (and Soundmill Navigator is surely different from the track I know!) would be like a dream come true to me. But it is far apart from being a dream :-( But that's just an opinion from a huge TD fan & Edgar surely has his reasons why he wanted it to sound that way. When I first heard about the upcoming 'Classics edition' I was totally thrilled and excited..but now it's just Fffft....Fffft....... (I hope that someday we will know if this noise was intentional or just a mastering flaw...maybe it's just a secret code? ;-) Heiko From: 'Jared White' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Seven Letters From Tibet Seven Letters From Tibet, it is thought, will be the full release of the long-awaited 'Tibetan Cycle' -- the first movement of which was included on the TDI release of Quinoa. I, for one, am looking forward to it tremendously! Regards, Jared ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Richard Bílek' To: Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 1:20 AM Subject: [tadream] Seven Letters From Tibet > Hello dreamers, > > in catalog of Groove Unlimited (www.groove.nl) I noticed upcoming Tangerine > Dream album named > Seven Letters From Tibet. Does anybody know, what this is about? > > Regards, Richard Bilek > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/3/_/24785/_/954750766/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 5:29 pm Subject: [tadream] Valentine Wheels Hi all, There's something that I've been wondering about for a while now, namely the differences between the 'Valentine Wheels' CD and what was actually played at the concert that it was taken from, namely Shepherds Bush Empire London on November 30, 1997. Here is a confirmed track listing of the Vintage Set as it was played at the concert: 01 Intro 02 Barbakane 03 Sundance Kid 04 Hyperborea 05 Warsaw in the Sun 06 Exit 07 Stratosfear 1995 08 Dolphin Dance 09 Melrose 10 Streethawk 11 The Blue Bridge 12 Oriental Haze And here's what appears on the CD: 01 Waterbourne 02 Betrayal 03 Poland (Barbakane extract) 04 Sundance Kid 05 Silver Scale 06 Warsaw in the Sun 07 Stratosfear 1995 08 Dolphin Dance 09 Le Parc (Streethawk) 10 Beach Theme As you may have noticed, there are several tracks which do not appear on the CD, and in fact there are several tracks that do appear on the CD, but were not actually played at the concert!! Does anyone have a fan tape of the entire concert (I was there, but I only have a fan tape of the Vintage Set) and hence a track listing of what was actually played? Perhaps the other tracks were taken from different concerts, or even recorded in the studio? Thanks for your help, Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21595 Re: Valentine Wheels Hermes Guzman Mon 4/3/2000 2 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 5:29 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] TD MP3 files Hi all, Does anyone out there know of any software that does the same thing on a Macintosh?!! Paul >Hey there all. Wanted to post something sort of on subject with TD. I'd >asked in the past related to Mp3 files, AND have been told that since >trading is so open and there is SO MUCH out there (NOT getting onto this >subject again), just thought I'd bring it up. A friend of mine referred me >to a site http://www.napster.com and this stuff is totally AMAZING. >Everytime you're online, you automatically connect to a complete server of >MP3 files and this means AnYONE that is linked to the napster network also >is always immediately available. IF you go into the library/search section >(like a search engine), and simply type on the name of the band you're >looking for, IF there is anyone online that has accessable TD stuff (or any >other band for that fact), you can set it up to auto download (as long as >the other computer stays online, you can keep going continuously) > >Just wanted to pass it along that I was able to find about 80 TD Related >files (all music files, NOTHING that was commercially available) if anyone >is interested. > >Also for a short note, I DO NOT always openly speak about this stuff, BUT >for those of you that do get offended by trading/MP3 files, etc, I don't >think I have YET to find someone who would NOT buy anything that is >commercially available. Myself, I always want the REAL THING, not a copy. >Just isn't the same. > >BUT to share information/music is something I've loved doing, that's why >this post. Anyone out there that even TOUCHES sound files or Mp3 files, USE >this napster program. Believe me, it's the wave of music online. > >dan > >Kayleigh's Playhouse! >http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh >Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List >TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! >ICQ#1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 >Yahoo Pager: kayleigh_tootiehoot Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21617 Re: TD MP3 files =?iso-8859-1?Q?Christian_Vill Tue 4/4/2000 4 KB From: 'Hermes Guzman' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Valentine Wheels Greetings all- Paul, the setlist you posted was from the Nov. 30 *1996* show. The _Valetine Wheels_ CD is the vintage set from the *Nov. 2, 1997* show. I have complete tapes from both gigs, and the _VW_ release is as performed. Hope this helps. goozer From: Rainer Rutka Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 7:39 pm Subject: Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Heiko Heerssen wrote: > Hi Gang, > I received my copy of 'Soundmill Navigator' last Friday & since then I > .. Just a question: Is there anybody who ordered SN by Groove Unlimited? I ordered my one a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I didn't get it until today. I'm also missing my (payed) order I did some more weeks ago. These guyes are nice but very very slow! True! Where can I get SN faster? Is Tan-go still released? Rainer NP: Pink Floyd 'Wall live DoCD' --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Carlos Alberto Martínez Salas Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 6:43 pm Subject: 'Tangetized' Hello, maybe this has been told here before, but can someone tell me who invented the 'tangetized' term? I am 100% in a lurker mode (well, not now :-) and I remember in the former TD mailing list a los ot discusions about Tangents, and someone began to use the term. Who was that? Thanx in advance. _____________________________ CARLOS A. MARTINEZ MONTERREY, MEXICO From: Michael V Miller Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 7:23 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator Hi, Okay I have listened to Soundmill Navigator all the way through and I still don't hear this sound everybody is talking about. Did I get a good copy or what? Does anybody know of any other unreleased music from the 1974-1980 era that will be released? Mike ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 7:52 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Tangentized' All hands, BRACE FOR EDITORIAL! >From: Carlos Alberto Martínez Salas > >Hello, maybe this has been told here before, but can someone tell me who >invented the 'tangetized' term? If you have any of the following: * Tangents 5 CD boxed set ($60) 1974-1983 * Dream Roots Collection 5CD boxed set ($48) 1970-1973/1983-1987 * Blue Years (1 CD) * Pink Years (1 CD) * The Keep soundtrack (1997 and 1999 releases) * Sohoman (1999) * Soundmill Navigator (2000) then you are probably already aware that most of the music on these discs is pulled from original material dating 14-30 years ago. Edgar has started with this material, which was recorded on vintage analogue equipment and played with 2-4 band members (Edgar, Chris, Peter, Johannes, Steve J., Klaus K., etc.), and performed really clean and crisp equalization to clean up any tape hiss, etc. Then, he has hooked up a couple of recent (1994+) all-digital keyboards and, using preset sounds, played melodic stuff on top of the original material, using it in many cases to shorten a piece, for example, a set of strings or faux vocals fade up to cut a piece off after 5-6 minutes. None of the instrument sounds bear any resemblance to the sounds on the original material and little effort is made to seamlessly blend what he is adding to the original material. All of this modification was done in a vacuum without any assistance from the other artists. I think Edgar said he tried to contact Chris but was rebuffed. Then, surprisingly, there are some from-scratch recreations of the original tracks which are virtually identical to the originals. Edgar has told us that most of the sounds of the old equipment exist as a digital library now, and not only that, but the old equipment has also been digi-fied, meaning that digital MIDI controllers and auto-tuning equipment has been added to all of it. Hmm.... So why the term 'Tangentized'? Well, aside from the remixed Monolight track on the 70-80 boxed set, the 5 CD Tangents boxed set was the first official release I am familiar with that took original material and heavily doctored it with new sounds. There was a huge uproar over this 'damage' to the integrity of the old material, but Edgar feels that we would've been equally frustrated if he had done nothing to the tracks except adding a 5th CD of new material. So the term Tangentization was coined to describe any new release which takes a classic piece of their music and performs major surgery (usually without anesthetic), resulting in a Tangentized version. Here's a semi-complete casualty list: * Tangents 5 CD boxed set ($60) 1974-1983 [Discs 1-4 are vintage material mostly overdubbed, Disc 5 is unreleased material that we can only assume is equally tangentized] * Dream Roots Collection 5CD boxed set ($48) 1970-1973/1983-1987 [Discs 1-4 are vintage material, more nicely overdubbed, Disc 5 is unreleased material that we can only assume is equally tangentized] * Blue Years (1 CD) [1983-1987, excerpts from Dream Roots] * Pink Years (1 CD) [1970-1973, excerpts from Dream Roots] * The Keep soundtrack (1997 and 1999 releases) [some tracks are unmolested, some are tangentized, and some tracks are brand new and have no bearing on the movie at all] * Sohoman (1999) [first 35 minutes of Melbourne, Australia, 1982 concert and clipped off in the middle of a song, not to mention one of Edgar's stellar guitar solos is completely exorcised from this release. I thought Edgar liked guitars!] * Soundmill Navigator (2000) [first 10 minutes are fiction, and the rest of it is, to put it bluntly, irritatingly tweaked.] As you can guess from the above tirade, I lack unconditional love for Tangerine Dream. Sorry guys, I'm a purist. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 23724 Rainer's TD Fanpage Update Rainer Rutka Sat 8/26/2000 2 KB 23986 Ground Liftaz Site open (TDI sub-lable) Rainer Rutka Fri 9/15/2000 2 KB From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 8:40 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] 'Tangentized' 'Book of Dreams', from 1995, also has retouched material. I like most of what was done on this album, except the omission of a great guitar solo on Song of the Whale. joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Feldon Feldon [mailto:feldon23@h...] ...the 'tangetized' term? > > If you have any of the following: > > * Tangents 5 CD boxed set ($60) 1974-1983 > * Dream Roots Collection 5CD boxed set ($48) 1970-1973/1983-1987 > * Blue Years (1 CD) > * Pink Years (1 CD) > * The Keep soundtrack (1997 and 1999 releases) > * Sohoman (1999) > * Soundmill Navigator (2000) > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21603 Re: 'Tangentized' Feldon Feldon Mon 4/3/2000 2 KB From: Michael V Miller Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 9:01 pm Subject: Tangentize Hi again, I have to agree with the idea of adding to vintage stuff. I like the original the way it was originally intended. I don't like most of the new sounds that are out there. They sound too generic and lifeless. However I did like the additions to Richochet part 2 on the Tangents boxed set. I still prefer the orignal but I do like the etheral sounds that was added, just too much of the original track was cut out. Rickochet part 2 is my favorite TD track with Quoichette (SP?) part two from Pergamon a close second. Mike 'The LORD said to me that He loved me. I asked 'How much?' He said, 'This much.' and stretched out His arms and died on a cross for me.' May you experience the Love of Christ. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: 'Gustavo Jobim' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 11:18 pm Subject: D:[Zeit] / April 1st You know, that was cruel. At first I did believe - then I noticed the date... now playing Zeit (beginning) - somebody (sorry, forgot your name) on his First Contact post said something about it... And I remembered that I have played this album - all the four tracks - only ONCE. I'm not even sure if I played bits of it later. It was mid-December/99. I do like Zeit, that Birth of Liquid Plejades analog effect is really nostalgic and nice. I think this album better than Atem (after the fantastic intro), and Alpha Centauri (the track). At least, in Zeit you know that the spaciness makes sense, the album is even called 'a Largo in four movements'. If you feel like listening to the whole Zeit, it can be a very nice experience. In one sentence: ZEIT is a space/ambient music masterpiece. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Mon Apr 3, 2000 10:27 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] 'Tangentized' >From: 'Joe Shoults' >Reply-To: tadream@egroups.com >To: >Subject: RE: [tadream] 'Tangentized' >Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:40:30 -0400 > >'Book of Dreams', from 1995, also has retouched material. I like most of >what was done on this album, except the omission of a great guitar solo on >Song of the Whale. I think you have Book of Dreams : Blue Years, as described in my previous post. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Vic Rek Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 2:32 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee TD Trip Hi Craig, I hope you can reconsider. Call me at 770-643-8292 for more details - it will be great! Vic C Chambers wrote: > > From: 'C Chambers' > > Vic, > > Hi, sorry to be so unsure at this point, but I just started a new job on > Weds. and it may be difficult to commit yet. I definitely want to attend, > but I have to wait closer to the date to know for sure. If I am able to > attend, I can always make accomodations for myself (tent, car, etc...) > > Again, I appreciate you organizing all of this but it is just difficult to > commit with so much going on in my work situation. > > Craig > > > From: Vic Rek > > > > Hi TD fans! > > > > So far we have about 11 people that will most likely attend the TD > > Okefenokee Swap gig. I also have about 5 that are still not sure. > > > > We have room for up to 16 so please respond soon. We can find more room > > if necessary though. > > > > This is what I have sent to the ones that are interested: > > > > > Please confirm if you plan to attend so I can come up with a list. > > > The Swamp gig is from Sunday April 9th to 12/13th. > > > > > > I will also have for sale from TDI 'Tango-go' - 15 copies (we'll be the > > > first ones to have them) and 5 copies of 'Soundmill Navigator' - first > > > come first serve. I'll sell them at my cost of $18. Also, bring an > > > extra TD item for the drawings that we'll have. We'll I'm looking > > > forward to it - should be fun. We'll also have some original music too! > > > > > > Oh, remember that the gates to the park close at 7PM. So you must be in > > > by then. > > > > > > Call or e-mail me if you have questions: > > > > Vic > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > > Apply NOW! > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/953420984/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/953432165/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21699 Re: Okefenokee TD Trip C. Chambers Wed 4/5/2000 5 KB From: Vic Rek Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 2:56 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee List Hi Tom, We'd like you to join us! The party starts next Saturday 4/8 in Atlanta and then we caravan to the swamp on Sunday at 4/9 at 10AM. I hope you can join us. So far we have about 10 fans 'going for it'. Vic PLease call me if you wish to join us - 770-643-8292. TJames0001@a... wrote: > > From: TJames0001@a... > > I am interested--- > Tom James---Indiana > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests! > Sign up for eLerts at: > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Please practice listserv etiquette. To unsubscribe, e-mail tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://tadream.copfer.com > > What are Chris Franke and Paul Haslinger up to these days? Find out at http://www.haslinger.com and http://www.sonicimages.com/cf/! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21700 Re: Okefenokee List Vic Rek Thu 4/6/2000 2 KB From: Vic Rek Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 3:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Okefenokee deal Hi Scott! Are you coming to the Swamp? I have a nice crowd of over 10 people willing to join us. You can join us and the musicians in Atlanta next Saturday (4/8). We all caravan in 5+ cars starting Sunday 4/9 at 10AM to the Okefenokee. please call me for the details. Vic 770-643-8292 From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 3:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mars Polaris > UK news says that it's official........NASA underspent on the project by 33%....probably why the first mission shot past and the second crashed. What I really want to know is.......when the workers at NASA backup the car in the parking lot every day, do they use feet and inches or convert into metric? > They should not be 'converting' they should be thinking in 'metric' From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 3:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream.net] I have just discovered the two Shoutcast streams on www.tadream.net and was curious as to whether there was some kind of tracklist? I've heard a couple tracks already that I don't recognize. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Vic Rek Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 3:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to attend please reply.. This is the last call to join us for a truly wonderful event. This event will encompass: New EM music performed by Marcel Engels and Dave Brewer. A nice gift from TDI... A wonderful getaway experience in the wilderness.. which few will ever experience again... Enough said. Call if you wish to join us - just a couple places left. Cost is $15 per night. If you call me in the next 2 days, you may be able to join our TD caravan down to the Swamp from Atlanta (so far we have four cars driving down) Just do it for yourself! Vic (770-643-8292) 3 AM is approaching.... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21690 Re: Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to atte Jim Moore Wed 4/5/2000 3 KB 21694 Re: Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to atte Marcel Engels Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB 21710 Re: Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to atte Michael A Jean Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 4:22 am Subject: Re: Re: [tadream] Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Sigh! I'm obviously living on the wrong side of the world. As I've mentioned before, TD have never even been to 'Aotearoa (The Land of the Long White Cloud)' despite visiting our near-neighbour Australia on at least one occasion in the 80s. I doubt that I'll ever see them here, and that would include the likes of Klaus Schulze (whom I'm a great fan of, too), Steve Jolliffe (ditto) etc. We have a Festival of the Arts in our capital city, Wellington, every two years in February/March and the latest one has just finished. I live about 16 km to the north. The Orb was supposed to come, but it appears that the sponsors suddenly found themselves short of the finance necessary to bring the act here and the tour was hurriedly cancelled. I wonder what TD would want to come to New Zealand? I guess I'll just have to wonder ... ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, 3 April 2000 11:42 Subject: [tadream] Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall > Hello there, > > Well folks, let me tell you about the interesting day I had yesterday. At > about midday, I suddenly remembered 'Hey, isn't it today that Ash Ra Tempel > (aka Klaus Schulze and Manuel Goettsching) are playing at the Royal Festival > Hall?' A quick call to the box office confirmed that this was indeed the > case and that there were seats available. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/954762182/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: 'marc todd' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 12:42 pm Subject: Tangentized Navigator Hi Everyone, Well, thanks to the reviews of Soundmill Navigator on this list, I've decided to wait until one turns up in the used bin. Between the tangentizing and the mysterious 'spray' sound (kind of like the movie projector clicking sound on Valentine Wheels) I think I should save my money for a future RMI or AirSculpture cd. This may have been brought up before, but why doesn't Edgar release two versions of these 'Classic Series'? He can make one a complete, unremixed,recording and sell through the TDI website. The other he can tangentize the daylights out of and put that one out in general release. Whatever he may say the reasons for the remixes and overdubs, I think it is simply to sell more product, catering to the tastes of people who wouldn't normally listen to something like Rubycon. Besides, there are lots of people who would probably purchase both anyway. Win/win no? Cheers! Marc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 6:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator Michael V Miller wrote: > Hi, > > Okay I have listened to Soundmill Navigator all the way through and I > still don't hear this sound everybody is talking about. Did I get a good > copy or what? Now that would be a hot collector's item.... > Does anybody know of any other unreleased music from the > 1974-1980 era that will be released? In a recent interview on the Berlin radio show 'Elektrobeats' Edgar planned to maybe release the Avery Fisher Hall Concert (05.04.1977) and the Reims Cathedral (23.09.1975) concert. Note the word 'planned', this was no definitive statement and not official. Heiko From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 6:46 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) Rainer Rutka wrote: > Just a question: Is there anybody who ordered SN by Groove Unlimited? > I ordered my one a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately I didn't get it > until today. I'm also missing my (payed) order I did some more weeks > ago. These guyes are nice but very very slow! > True! > > Where can I get SN faster? Is Tan-go still released? Hi Rainer! I received my copy of Soundmill Navigator (& Tang-go!) from Lambert Ringlage of Spheric Music. Each time a new TD album is scheduled for release he announces it on the Tadream list and so far he's doing a very good job, the delivery is really fast as lightning. He claimed to have both CD's in stock on March 28th and just one day later I received them both :-) Strange you had some troubles with Groove Unlimited as I thought they are very reliable & quick (& cheap). Heiko > > > Rainer > > NP: Pink Floyd 'Wall live DoCD' > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > www.rutka.de/td > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/954787437/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21614 Re: Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) Rainer Rutka Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB 21637 Re: Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) Joel Mullen Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB 21641 Re: Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) Charter Dial up Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 8:40 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Heiko Heerssen wrote: > Hi Rainer! > I received my copy of Soundmill Navigator (& Tang-go!) from Lambert Ringlage > .. > Strange you had some troubles with Groove Unlimited as I thought they are > very reliable & quick (& cheap). Hi! Well, they are reliable! But never quick and not cheap. If you're searching for rare elektronic music - this is the best address. The price is high (IMO) but sometimes you get records unavailable elsewhere. The delivery takes about 2 to 4 weeks after you placed an order. I don't wanted to blame Groove. But I ordered Soundmill / Tang-go just to get it faster (before the stores). And now I must see that everybody on the list got it - and I don't. And I got no confirmation that Groove just sended it to me. So I have to wait another 2 - 4 weeks. Next time I know! I think I buy it in the store (Mediamarkt). Rainer Thank you for the hints, Heiko! --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 12:49 pm Subject: Froese's Aqua - Cheap Folks, If anyone is short of Edgar Froese's first solo album, Aqua, I may be able to help. I have found a record store that has a number of copies (around 10) that they are selling for £3 each. If anyone wants me to pick up a copy for them, just let me know on either of the addresses below. Cheers, -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 12:41 pm Subject: D: Soundtrack [Canyon dreams] 'Canyon dreams' may not be one of the most important albums in TD's long career, but in my opinion it's surely one of the most beautiful works they ever accomplished. Although issued in 1991 it took me 7 long years to finally hold a copy of the Miramar release in my hands. Don't know why it took so long but it was worth the wait. Maybe I would appreciate the music even more if I had seen the video which sure must be spectacular, juding by the photos of last years' re-release on the TDI label. My favourite track (which isn't an easy task for 'Canyon Dreams') must be 'Sudden revelation', one of the most haunting pieces of music *EVER* made. This is music which could go on forever and ever, but unfortunately this is one of the shorter tracks on that album. The longer I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that Canyon dreams may be TD's best soundtrack effort ever. Not a weak track in sight and compositions like 'Shadow flyer' or 'Canyon Carver' is EM music of the highest order. Heiko n.p.: TD : Tang-go Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21624 D: Soundtrack [Canyon dreams] Jeffrey Au Yeung Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB From: Christian Villazón Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 12:33 pm Subject: RE: Re : [tadream] TD MP3 files Hello For Mac is Macster. Christian -----Original Message----- From: Paul Fellows [mailto:pfellows@c...] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 1:30 PM To: tadream@o... Subject: Re : [tadream] TD MP3 files Hi all, Does anyone out there know of any software that does the same thing on a Macintosh?!! Paul >Hey there all. Wanted to post something sort of on subject with TD. I'd >asked in the past related to Mp3 files, AND have been told that since >trading is so open and there is SO MUCH out there (NOT getting onto this >subject again), just thought I'd bring it up. A friend of mine referred me >to a site http://www.napster.com and this stuff is totally AMAZING. >Everytime you're online, you automatically connect to a complete server of >MP3 files and this means AnYONE that is linked to the napster network also >is always immediately available. IF you go into the library/search section >(like a search engine), and simply type on the name of the band you're >looking for, IF there is anyone online that has accessable TD stuff (or any >other band for that fact), you can set it up to auto download (as long as >the other computer stays online, you can keep going continuously) > >Just wanted to pass it along that I was able to find about 80 TD Related >files (all music files, NOTHING that was commercially available) if anyone >is interested. > >Also for a short note, I DO NOT always openly speak about this stuff, BUT >for those of you that do get offended by trading/MP3 files, etc, I don't >think I have YET to find someone who would NOT buy anything that is >commercially available. Myself, I always want the REAL THING, not a copy. >Just isn't the same. > >BUT to share information/music is something I've loved doing, that's why >this post. Anyone out there that even TOUCHES sound files or Mp3 files, USE >this napster program. Believe me, it's the wave of music online. > >dan > >Kayleigh's Playhouse! >http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh >Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List >TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! >ICQ#1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 >Yahoo Pager: kayleigh_tootiehoot ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/954782974/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://www.tadream.net From: olle.rundgren@s... Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 12:28 pm Subject: RE: Classics or no classics ---First: Thanks for the review of the Ashra Tempel concert. I was actually planning to be there but had to cancel due to work. Somehow with the Schulze focus, it feels ok anyway.--- Just wanted to throw in a comment regarding Soundmill Navigator and Tangentized music. I can only agree with Marc Todd in his conclusion as to why Edgar decides to add new dimensions to the old concert material. It must have to do with attracting a wider audience. I haven't listened to the latest release enough to give my impression but as a fan of the unique concert material from the 70s, I cannot understand the need to largely change the original as is obviously the case here. As far as I'm concerned that means it isn't a Classic concert recording anymore. It is rather a new release, inspired by classic concert material. This is not to mark words, rather a wish for more accurate marketing. I would much rather buy an official release from one of the classic concerts than a fan recording, provided I get the real stuff. If the Reims concert will ever be official, please keep it the way it is; A true classic. (Enhancements ok but no major modifications). Would be very interesting to hear how Edgar feels about this. If he never listens to the old material maybe he just regards it as a source from which new material can be developed from, what do I Know. Det va allt! Olle Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21670 Re: Classics or no classics Frank Arellano Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 12:47 pm Subject: D: Soundtrack[Deadly care] 'Deadly care'... if we all had to make a list of our Top 20 TD albums I would bet that absolutely no-one would include 'Deadly care'..am I right or what?! ;-) Heiko From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 12:59 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D: Soundtrack [Canyon dreams] > ---------- > From: Heiko Heerssen[SMTP:heiko.heerssen@h...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 04 April 2000 13:41 > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] D: Soundtrack [Canyon dreams] > > they ever accomplished. Although issued in 1991 it took me 7 long years > to finally hold a copy of the Miramar release in my hands. Don't know > why it took so long but it was worth the wait. Maybe I would appreciate > That's because the Miramar releases were ridiculously hard to get hold of in Germany. It took me ages at the time to find Canyon Dreams. The same happened with 220 Volt, which I think is also a Miramar release. I suppose it's quite similar to the difficulty our American list members are experiencing at the moment with obtaining TDI releases. Now, you're probably much better off living in Germany. And for the same reason (as far as TD availability is concerned), it is a bit annoying that I don't live in Germany any more. > My favourite track (which isn't an easy task for 'Canyon Dreams') must > be 'Sudden revelation', one of the most haunting pieces of music *EVER* > made. This is music which could go on forever and ever, but > unfortunately this is one of the shorter tracks on that album. The > 'Sudden Revelation' is my favourite too. What I like about it is that it lingers and turns around and isn't as driven as a lot of other compositions. You could argue that it isn't really going anywhere, but it seems aware that it doesn't have to. The music ebbs and flows like breathing, giving the piece a very sentient quality, almost like a living being. To an extent, this ebbing and flowing quality persists across the album, with the more structured and driven tracks (like 'Canyon Carver') contrasted with quieter, more organic compositions. Even Jerome's composing debut fits in surprisingly well at the end of the album. Overall, a very strong record. Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21622 Re: D: Soundtrack [Canyon dreams] Heiko Heerssen Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:06 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] UK distribution of TDI was: Ffft Ffft Ffft Ffft (S oundmill Navigator) Okay then, I complained about it in my last post, now I just can't hold back the question any longer. If people in Germany AND in the States already have Soundmill Navigator, can anyone point out to me how I can buy it from the UK? Is there any on-line distributor that (a) already has the newest releases - because Amazon UK doesn't - and (b) doesn't force me to pay in dollars rather than pounds? Anyone in the UK with a recommendation about this? Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21623 Re: UK distribution of TDI was: Ffft Ffft Ffft Nick Adams Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D: Soundtrack [Canyon dreams] Nigbur D wrote: > ....... I suppose it's quite similar to the difficulty our American list > members are > experiencing at the moment with obtaining TDI releases. Now, you're probably > much better off living in Germany. And for the same reason (as far as TD > availability is concerned), it is a bit annoying that I don't live in > Germany any more. I work in the centre of Hamburg (Germany's second biggest city) and am surrounded by huge record stores who all have tons of TD material, may they be old Virgin releases or brand new TDI stuff. But each time I visit one of the shops during my lunch break I either get blown away by strong winds or rain storms. So I'm working in the office (I'm one of these lazy librarians...) and look at the beautiful cover of 'Canyon dreams' with envy. You can't have it all...... > 'Sudden Revelation' is my favourite too. What I like about it is that it > lingers and turns around and isn't as driven as a lot of other compositions. > You could argue that it isn't really going anywhere, but it seems aware that > it doesn't have to. The music ebbs and flows like breathing, giving the > piece a very sentient quality, almost like a living being. And listening to the new 'Tang-go' compilation I realize that the sounds one can hear on 'Canyon dreams' sometimes re-appear on later tracks (like 'Stoneyard' for example). Heiko From: 'Nick Adams' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] UK distribution of TDI was: Ffft Ffft Ffft Ffft (S oundmill Navigator) From D.Nigbur@r...> >can anyone point out to me how I can buy it from the > UK? Is there any on-line distributor that (a) already has the newest > releases - because Amazon UK doesn't - and (b) doesn't force me to pay in > dollars rather than pounds? > > Anyone in the UK with a recommendation about this? Dennis, CD Services has it in stock at the moment, i got mine yesterday !! E Mail cdser@A... Alternatively phone 01382 776595 Nick NP Can / Tago Mago Home Nicad@c... Work Nick.Adams@p... From: 'Jeffrey Au Yeung' <220Volt@i...> Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:32 pm Subject: D: Soundtrack [Canyon dreams] Hello Heiko! 'Canyon dreams' it's surely one of the most beautiful works they ever accomplished. * Ditto! Maybe I would appreciate the music even more if I had seen the video which sure must be spectacular, juding by the photos of last years' re-release on the TDI label. * The Canyon Dreams video remains my best TD video of all time! My favourite track (which isn't an easy task for 'Canyon Dreams') must be 'Sudden revelation', one of the most haunting pieces of music *EVER* made. This is music which could go on forever and ever, but unfortunately this is one of the shorter tracks on that album. The longer I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that Canyon dreams may be TD's best soundtrack effort ever. Not a weak track in sight and compositions like 'Shadow flyer' or 'Canyon Carver' is EM music of the highest order. * Mine have to be 'A Matter Of Time', 'Water's Gift' and 'Shadow Flyer' - I hope they can be played live some day... 'Canyon Carver' is nice too... Jeffrey [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:35 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Glad you enjoyed the concert. Now, to clear up some of the connection between Kraut and Cope... I don't think you're doing the man justice by referring to him as 'bollocks'. Cope has been deeply involved in the Krautrock scene from the beginning, without ever venturing too deeply into EM specifically. The individualistic, rebellious innovations of Schulze, Ash Ra, TD and Co. have fascinated and inspired him throughout, and he has used a fair proportion of this influence in his own work, whilst staying true to his 'melodic punk rock turned eco-friendly' (eloquently summed up in an old HMV catalogue) style. Although it does, of course, depend on his set at this specific concert, I don't really think, therefore, that his music could be dismissively likened to pop songs with any sound justification. More recently, Cope has actually used synthesisers to quite an extent, probably reflecting the availability of electronic gear as well as his affinity to the teutonic musical scene. My impression is that his use of Kraut inspirations is quite creative, very individual, but certainly not EM. As well as that, if you don't want to give him credit for his music, he has also written 'Krautrocksampler', the one reasonably comprehensive guide to the beginnings of the German Rock and E-music scene published in the English language. While I haven't managed to get my hands on a copy of it, it seems like a praiseworthy effort to give this kind of music an audience outside Germany, just like John Peel did by playing TD on radio... I would wager that the 'unsavoury' (in itself an arguable judgement) audience at the concert you went to remembered Cope from his Teardrop Explodes days, rather than his more recent druidic activities. Or they might, possibly with some justification, regard him as a fellow punk due to his focus on individuality, rebellion against repression, and his strong anti-establishment views (probably more than his environmental attitude). You don't have to like his music or his audience, and you could even view him as opinionated (I wouldn't particularly like to meet him in the flesh myself). But slating him and his work as bollocks without reflection is not something I'd agree with. Dennis From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:41 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Body Love There is an interview with Klaus, probably on the official KS web page, in which he talks about this film. I thought it was highly amusing and quite insightful at the same time how he described porn as an ideal vehicle for his kind of music, since the lack of dialogue would mean no interruptions or forced cuts in the music. Now there's an original way to look at it... Dennis From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:48 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re:Silver Scale > ---------- > From: Chris Richards[SMTP:kohntarkosz@y...] > Reply To: tadream@o... > Sent: 02 April 2000 08:35 > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] Re:Silver Scale/Aerosmith > > It's on the Tangents boxset, and I believe > there's also a version on one of the recent live > releases (Valentine's Wheel?). I only know the > version on Tangents, so I can't advise on the > live version. > I don't have Valentine Wheels, but I was at the concert where it was recorded. This incarnation of the Silver Scale is a bit different from the one on Tangents. The 'fugue' intro you can find on Tangents is not included in the live version because the track is dovetailed between the songs before and after it. Having said that, I don't think this intro was part of the original 80s version either. The driving sequence is the same in both versions, but I think I remember the harmonic chords differing a bit. Both versions are worth having. From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 2:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Schulze at the Festival Hall Nigbur D wrote: > As well as that, if you don't want to give him credit for his music, he has > also written 'Krautrocksampler', the one reasonably comprehensive guide to > the beginnings of the German Rock and E-music scene published in the English > language. While I haven't managed to get my hands on a copy of it, it seems > like a praiseworthy effort to give this kind of music an audience outside > Germany, just like John Peel did by playing TD on radio... I purchased his book right after its release, really interesting that the only book about the so-called 'Krautrock' scene I liked has been written by an Englishman. But most of the musicians covered in his book were more or less ignored or laughed at (with the possible exception of the legendary Can) in Germany at that time, and nearly all of them had their biggest success outside Germany (mostly in the UK and France). I had to tell you that it was very hard reading for a non-English speaker like me, but also tremendously entertaining and funny. This was clearly written by a Krautrock fan, and from the first pages onwards you know that he's not a profound journalist or music critic. Portions of his TD reviews have been used as liner notes for the Castle re-master series (Electronic meditation up to Green desert). He also contained his Top 50 Krautrock album review section which alone is worth the price. Very recommendable. Heiko From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 1:50 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Recycling Very good point. I don't mind recycling as such, but I find that it can devalue the experience of listening to an otherwise very inspired piece of music. However, that is probably a listener's problem more than a composer's. Dennis > ---------- > From: horrod6[SMTP:horrod6@n...] > Reply To: tadream@o... > Sent: 02 April 2000 11:54 > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] Recycling > > IMO, the policy of not listening to previous releases could contribute > to the 'recycling' effect. After all, the band in its various line-ups > has released an incredible amount of material. So if Edgar (or any other > band member) finds this incredible riff running through their head, can > they be sure they haven't already used it? And if it's good and it fits > the new piece they are developing, does it really matter? Even if there > wasn't a _policy_ of not listening to previously released material, can > you really see them going back over hundreds (thousands?) of hours of > material, just to make sure that the new piece doesn't recycle an old > tune? > > LnH > > Marion > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: Glynn.Naughton@a... Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 2:25 pm Subject: Cope Dennis sez: >Glad you enjoyed the concert. Now, to clear up some of the connection >between Kraut and Cope... I think you took what was intended as a rather light-hearted concert review a bit too much to heart. By 'Copian bollocks' I simply meant that I would rather the event had been a straight-on Klaus Schulze concert, without all the other stuff attached. Maybe that shows how narrow-minded and insular I am, but if you had had to live through 'Coil', I think you'd have more sympathy :-) I know very little about Cope except that he was once a sort of Syd Barrett nutter who now writes books about Megalithic archeology. I was not slating his music as I know nothing about it, and have no interest in it one way or the other. BTW try C+D Compact Disc Services in Dundee (sorry, don't have the full address to hand) for mail-order TD. BTW2 did anyone else from this list go? Glynn From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 3:27 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tadream.net] good morning, morgan- If you listen long enough, you'll notice they are kinda repetitive! ;-) If I recall correctly, I found these on live365.com, and I think you can actually see whats coming up next, but I haven't bothered to hack into the code to be able to pull that source through to the tadream.net page. I thought about it, because it would be cool to have a script that dynamically displays 'what's playing now' on the screen, but I'm doing as best I can to keep up with updating the weekly album graphic to correspond with the discussions! If you find any more stream, let me know and I'l put them up! We also have quitre a few RealAudio streams at tadream.net in the 'Listen!' section. later, joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Feldon Feldon [mailto:feldon23@h...] > Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 11:37 PM > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: [tadream.net] > > > I have just discovered the two Shoutcast streams on > www.tadream.net and was > curious as to whether there was some kind of tracklist? I've > heard a couple > tracks already that I don't recognize. > > -Morgan > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/954819431/ > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21632 Re: Re: [tadream.net] Feldon Feldon Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 3:44 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tadream.net] >From: 'Joe Shoults' > >good morning, morgan- > >If you listen long enough, you'll notice they are kinda repetitive! ;-) Yeah, and all of it is 1990's stuff, including Dream Mixes I (import version) and none is unreleased concert material, so it can't be a fan-operated Shoutcast :) :) >If I recall correctly, I found these on live365.com, and I think you can >actually see whats coming up next, but I haven't bothered to hack into the >code to be able to pull that source through to the tadream.net page. I checked but didn't see any TD-specific streams there. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Feldon Feldon [mailto:feldon23@h...] > > > > I have just discovered the two Shoutcast streams on > > www.tadream.net and was > > curious as to whether there was some kind of tracklist? I've > > heard a couple > > tracks already that I don't recognize. > > > > -Morgan n.p. Dreaming on Danforth Avenue (I didn't say all tangentization was lame, I like the Sax [track 1] and Flute [track 2] additions.) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Glenn Reinicke Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 3:56 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator noise Well, I decided to ask the good people at TDI what the problem is with SN and they kindly responded. I for one am pleased that TDI is releasing old stuff and will definitely support them, even if it is tangentized and has some defects. I'd rather have a slightly less than perfect release than have Edgar shelve the project over imperfections, which he could have easily done. If we want to see more of these releases in the future, maybe we should email our support to TDI rather than rail against them (yet again!). FYI: there used to be a great article on the Wendy Carlos website which dealt with the decomposition of analog master tapes. She actually had to bake some of her old tapes in an oven to remove the moisture before getting being able to remaster. I get the feeling that a lot of older recordings of any band recorded to analog tape is likely to be problematic. [From TDI] > Glenn, > > it is not a manufacturing flaw and not a mastering error, either. The > subtle noise loop comes straight from the old original master tapes and > could not be removed without severely cutting into the material. It is > partly the result of tape- wear- out (which is normal in analog tapes that > are stored for 24 years) and also partly a noise emanating during the > concert itself resulting from the analog tape echo- units that were used > as > FX for the synths, hence the repetitive nature of the sound. > > Hope this is informative... > > > > Regards, > > TDI Music Support > > > ---------------------------------- > this information was brought to you by: > > TDI MUSIC > > P.O. BOX 30 33 40 > 10728 Berlin > Germany > > Fax: > 49 - 30 - 23 62 09 96 > > TDI(tm), it's a 3 letter world > > > > > > > > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21707 Re: Soundmill Navigator noise Radu Velicescu Thu 4/6/2000 4 KB From: Nigbur D Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 4:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator noise This is great, it clears everything up. Thanks for finding this out. Dennis > ---------- > From: Glenn Reinicke[SMTP:glennr@f...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 04 April 2000 16:56 > To: 'tadream@o...' > Subject: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator noise > > Well, I decided to ask the good people at TDI what the problem is with SN > and they kindly responded. I for one am pleased that TDI is releasing old > stuff and will definitely support them, even if it is tangentized and has > some defects. I'd rather have a slightly less than perfect release than > have > Edgar shelve the project over imperfections, which he could have easily > done. If we want to see more of these releases in the future, maybe we > should email our support to TDI rather than rail against them (yet > again!). > > FYI: there used to be a great article on the Wendy Carlos website which > dealt with the decomposition of analog master tapes. She actually had to > bake some of her old tapes in an oven to remove the moisture before > getting > being able to remaster. I get the feeling that a lot of older recordings > of > any band recorded to analog tape is likely to be problematic. > > [From TDI] > > > Glenn, > > > > it is not a manufacturing flaw and not a mastering error, either. The > > subtle noise loop comes straight from the old original master tapes and > > could not be removed without severely cutting into the material. It is > > partly the result of tape- wear- out (which is normal in analog tapes > that > > are stored for 24 years) and also partly a noise emanating during the > > concert itself resulting from the analog tape echo- units that were used > > as > > FX for the synths, hence the repetitive nature of the sound. > > > > Hope this is informative... > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > TDI Music Support > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > this information was brought to you by: > > > > TDI MUSIC > > > > P.O. BOX 30 33 40 > > 10728 Berlin > > Germany > > > > Fax: > > 49 - 30 - 23 62 09 96 > > > > TDI(tm), it's a 3 letter world > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21842 Re: Soundmill Navigator noise Rhen, Kris Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21844 Re: Soundmill Navigator noise Rhen, Kris Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21846 Re: Soundmill Navigator noise Radu Velicescu Tue 4/11/2000 3 KB 21858 Re: Soundmill Navigator noise Rhen, Kris Wed 4/12/2000 3 KB From: 'Todd Tornow' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 4:23 pm Subject: Okefenokee question, cost. How much does the whole thing cost? Todd ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Hermes Guzman' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 4:33 pm Subject: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') Greetings all- I am not an apologist for Edgar, nor do I think that he's some sort of 'god'. I am a simply a fan who gets a little tired of the whining invective and sheer ignorance of some of the rants against him. I kiss no-ones' butt, nor do I suffer fools lightly. Some of the following may be familiar to some of you-but not all of it.... IT IS THE ARTISTS' PRIVILEDGE TO DO AS HE OR SHE WISHES WITH THEIR WORK! As an artist, I completely concur with Edgar's decision to remix/rerecord the material. No piece of work is perfect, or truly finished, from an artists' standpoint. These are not epistles from God we're talking about here! They are simply expressions of the experienced subjective reality of Edgar and Co. As such, they are open to interpretation on all levels by everyone who encounters them. INCLUDING THE CREATORS! If Edgar chooses to reinterpret these works, that is his right; in some cases, it is his responsibility to do so. The _Tangents_ box, _Book of Dreams_, _Dream Roots Collection_, _Sohoman_ and _Soundmill Navigator_ are all examples of an artist who continually strives to offer new ideas and fresh direction, even when revisiting what has come before. I don't know about the rest of you, but collections and compilations are usually the last items of an artists' oevure that I buy, if at all. The overwhelming majority are assembled by the label without bothering to ask the artist, often haphazardly put together with no sense of continuity (or history, for that matter...) and always lacking that 'one favorite song'. The fact that Edgar (and Christoph for _BoD_), was asked to assemble these items alone is a major miracle. Had Edgar ultimately turned Virgin down when asked to do _Tangents_, we would've been given another _Dream Sequence_; they were going to do a compilation with or without him. The constant bitching about 'Tangentizing' really makes me boil! Did I miss something, or is this just too simple...THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL STILL EXISTS!! It's not as if by releasing _Tangents_ et.al. all the other albums disappeared! If some of you havn't bothered to read the liners or various interviews given at the time, then allow me to relay the following: precisely *because* the originals were still available, Edgar decided to rework the material, to not only offer new insight and in some cases new life to the originals, but also to offer something back to the fans! You may not like what was done to your precious songs; fine, then, take them back and make your own compilations from your well worn copies. I'm sorry, but I feel that in some cases the revisions transcend the originals completely. Sure, some don't *seem* to work, but then again, I'm not the composer so I'm in no position to judge the ultimate decision as to what was done. I merely have to accept it or not. Quite frankly, I *LOVE* the new material added to _SN_ (but I hate that tsst-tsst noise!) I think it is the most complete blend of '70's through '90's TD both stylistically and instrumentally, IMVHO. I hear elements of _Epsilon..._, _Encore_, _Ages_, _Tangram_, _Logos_, _Canyon Dreams_, _Optical Race_ and _Mars Polaris_ just to name a few. Sure, the *sound* is modern and clean, but the *texture*-the *feel*-is to me a living history of the band. Based on what I've heard and read regarding the above mentioned items, it seems that some of you 'fans' have a very myopic view of the band's history. How sad. Especially considering that none of the live albums released during that era (or any era until _Valentine Wheels_) were actual recordings of a given performance (yes, even _Logos and Poland!) They were *ALL* remixed/reworked and in some cases rerecorded! Let's see..._Encore_ was done after Peter left, and _Livemiles_ was done after Chris left...you know, I don't seem to recall ANYONE yelling about their 'rights' at the time? The drums, piano and some additional keys overdubs on _Ricochet_ provoked no response. _Encore_ is partially comprised of studio material and also has some overdubs, and don't forget about the the single _Monolight_/ Hobomarch_. The *ENTIRE* second half of _Pergamon_ was a studio track! _Poland_ underwent the editing knife, too. _LiveMiles_ should be called _StudioMiles_! To be fair, there *was* some griping about the non-live material being represented as live, but with nowhere near the vitriol we have today over every jot, tittle and quarter note not being 'true'! Let's also not forget _Solo: 74-79_, even though it is a solo release. Half the tracks were remixed with additional *digital* synth overdubs and one track was completly rerecorded! Not much in the way of whining was heard when it was released. In fact, I've never encountered a negative reaction to it at all. Curious. After all, 12 years before the 'what the hell is Edgar doing' crowd started spewing forth their diatribes, Edgar had essentially given us 'Tangents Beyond the Storm'! And nobody blinked!! Maybe some of you 'fans' don't have these particular albums, so you weren't aware of this tendancy of his. Tangerine Dream was founded by Edgar Froese in 1967. This was two years before Klaus Schulze, four years before Christoph Franke, five years before Peter Baumann, thirteen years before Johannes Schmoelling, nineteen years before Paul Haslinger and twenty-three years before Jerome Froese became *members*of*his*band*. Without Edgar THERE IS NO TANGERINE DREAM! This is not to diminish or minimize the talents or contributions of the above list; as I said in my original post *waaaaaaay* back on the old list '...it is a collaborative effortwith other musicians' within the group, *while* they're in the group, but the constant and the vision is Edgar.' His decision to rework the band's earlier material is ENTIRELY within his purview! Unless you are privy to information as to who played what synth/sequence, your assertions as regards the ethics and unfairness of Edgar's decisions on the remixed/additional performance material is ludicrous! Since with these tracks, most (in some cases all) of the original song remains, just who's contributions are being minimized? As for the re-performances, again, your arguments are flawed. Yes, the song is a new version, and yes, in some cases it has been completely transformed! BUT IN ESSENCE IT IS STILL THE SAME SONG! All that is intangible about any of these songs REMAIN in the new versions! They are merely hidden facets on the same gem, newly revealed. And since these new versions are still recognizable as to their source, again, unless you know who played/composed which section, your statements are wrong. Also, some of our 'musician fans' seem to have a tin ear regarding equipment. The overdubs are not done exclusively with modern sounds. They may be triggered by a modern master keyboard, but some of the sounds and sequences that have been added are indeed from vintage stacks and modules (including the venerable Moog.) And, no, the various contributors to the original tracks do not have to be consulted in any way as regards their reuse. VERY simply put: what was CREATED by the band, stays WITH the band, to be used BY the band, no matter *WHO* is in the band. Once you leave ANY collaborative situation that remains an ongoing concern, with EXTREMELY few exceptions (mostly regarding royalties) your input is over! They chose to leave, or were asked to, so why do you think they should have ANY say as to what happens with the GROUPS' efforts? Allow me to elaborate... 1) Live versions of older material, and the lack of whining- I've been to five different shows ('86, '88, '92, '96 and '97), and have spoken to a great number of fans regarding these and other years' shows I (we) have on tape. NOT ONCE have I heard anything REMOTELY like what I've heard regarding the remixes!! And yet, some of the mixes on these collections are actually the live versions of these 'sacred classics'! Folks, let me tell you, Edgar (and Chris and Johannes for that matter) sure didn't ask Peter if they could change Stratosfear, Betrayal, Phaedra, Cloudburst Fight, etc..., when they reworked them for the various tours AFTER Peter left! Nor did Edgar, Chris or Paul ask Johannes the 'question', and so on down the list. And you know what? The audiences (including some of you, I trust?) LOVED THEM!!! Either that, or the persons responsible for making the fantape(s) added the loud cheering during these pieces! And don't try and say that it's different for 'live' performance versus 'studio' performance.That's a spurious position at best, as a moment's careful thought regarding the nature of this genre, and the general nature of composition will reveal. But it speaks volumes as to the typical division between the so-called 'fans' and the rest of the public for whom this whole 'Tangentizing' debate amounts to little more than mental masturbation. Music, like most true Art, is a sublimely subjective experience, and does not conform at all to anyones' absolute pronouncements regarding its merit, value or meaning! Sometimes this even includes the composers.... 2) Chris' own 'Tangents' tendancies- Does anyone on the 'let's bash Edgar' commitee recall the title of Christoph's first post TD release? More to the point, do you remember *where* it came from? I'll give you a hint...it wasn't solely original to Chris! It was 'Vermillion Sands', a track from the Europe leg of the '86 Tour. But it was...*altered*! And it was done WITHOUT EDGAR'S OR PAUL'S INPUT! Hmmmmmmmm. And let's not forget the remix of 'Dolphin Dance' on _The London Concert_, or the excerpts from 'Betrayal' and 'Cloudburst Fight', or the sequence from _Pacific Coast Highway's_ 'Mountain Heights' (from _Optical Race's_ 'Turning Off the Wheel'!) Granted, these are only a small number comparatively, but 'a little leaven leavens the whole'. If it is wrong for Edgar to do it, it is JUST as wrong for Chris to do it. So I guess then that must mean that Chris has no problem with it.... Finally, what gives any of you the complete and galling arrogance to tell him (or any artist) how or what to create? Because you buy the CD's and go to the concerts? Wow. Such power you have. All after the fact. True, your purchasing decisions will help to decide if there will be more material to come (mostly from the record company POV), but unless you're supporting the 'pube rock flavor of the week', it will have little or nothing to do with the *content* of said upcoming material (which in the 'prfotw' case means as soon as it stops selling, they're back to washing dishes...or completing rehab, while the producers poll the jr. high scools for the next 'prfotw'.) Let's face it, people. Not one thing we want, say or do will make any difference to Edgar as to what he decides to do with his (yes, *HIS*) music. And it never should. But if that ever does happen, then that is the day *I* stop listening, for then I will know that he is no longer listening to the muse, but rather the ruse of vox populi, which always tears down that which it builds up. goozer Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21652 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Marcel Engels Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB 21653 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Sean Montgomery Tue 4/4/2000 6 KB 21687 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la mem Quichotte Wed 4/5/2000 3 KB From: Joel Mullen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 4:50 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) Hello all- IMHO Groove Unlimited is great, I have made thousands of dollars worth of purchases from them. And if you are looking for something rare in E-music there is no better choice. I find that the pricing is good as well, but I usually order enough to get a 10% discount (20+ CDs) Ron and Kees provide personal service and attention like no other on-line (or off line for that matter) CD store I know (and I know alot) The only downfall I know of is the fact that mail service between them and the US is very bad. I used to get the packages in less than 1 work week, but lately they have been getting lost or taking 8-10 weeks to arrive. I think the post office is sending their packages buy boat instead of by plane like they are supposed to for the larger packages and that is resulting in lost and delayed items. My last order was sent to me Feb 1st and it is still not here (we assume it is lost) and that was a $500 order. However at the same time I had a package sent from Groove to a friend and trading partner in Australia and he got it in 5 days or so. So don't blame Groove they are pretty much on top of things, I think it is the mail service that is causing our problems. Regards, Joel From: 'Jared White' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 5:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Hermes Guzman' > Greetings all- > > I am not an apologist for Edgar, nor do I think that he's some sort > of 'god'. I am a simply a fan who gets a little tired of the whining > invective and sheer ignorance of some of the rants against him. I > kiss no-ones' butt, nor do I suffer fools lightly. Some of the > following may be familiar to some of you-but not all of it.... > > IT IS THE ARTISTS' PRIVILEDGE TO DO AS HE OR SHE WISHES WITH THEIR > WORK! RIGHT ON! Finally, someone who understands what music is really all about -- how refreshing! Regards, Jared Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21639 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Jim Moore Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB 21643 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Joel Mullen Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB 21654 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Craig Chambers Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') >From: 'Hermes Guzman' Just another piece to consider: both Franke and Schmoelling have remixed and rereleased ('tangentized', if you will) previous versions of their own works (_Klemania_ and _Zoo of Tranquility_). Also, Edgar Froese has commented that Paul Haslinger had recorded several collections of classical pieces that he won't release. Personally, I think it just gives us more music to listen to... More to collect... hee hee! - jim From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 5:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Never remix anything? egads, it's that Tangentizing thread again! >From: 'Hermes Guzman' >Subject: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose >(RE:'Tangentizing') > >Greetings all- > >The constant bitching about 'Tangentizing' really makes me boil! Did I >miss something, or is this just too simple...THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL >STILL EXISTS!! It's not as if by releasing _Tangents_ et.al. all the >other albums disappeared! The difference is, Tangents and the other compilations you mention contain material that we already own in relatively undoctored form. Soundmill Navigator and Sohoman represent recordings that we had been hoping and praying would be unedited and untouched--except for equalization--from the archives. There is no way to have the unmodified Soundmill Navigator and Sohoman concerts except on concert tape. I concur with a post earlier today, it would be greatly appreciated if Edgar released tangentized versions of whatever he wishes to the mass market, and then makes untouched versions available to the purists from TDI's website. It sure doesn't cost anything to do that. >precisely *because* the originals were still >available, Edgar decided to rework the material, to not only offer >new insight and in some cases new life to the originals, but also to >offer something back to the fans! Some of the changes to the tracks on Tangents were refreshing, some just annoying (Poland - Tangent is a very 'down' movement, mostly blue and kinda depressing. Edgar added cheery faux vocals and strings on top of this. ARRGH), but as you say, I can buy, AND HAVE BOUGHT, originals (sometimes several times over) of that material. I think that Edgar has a responsibility to release the undoctored material, if nothing else, as an archive. We know that Edgar will do what he wants, so it's probably worthless to even talk about such things but one can dream. >Especially considering that none of the live >albums released during that era (or any era until _Valentine Wheels_) Valentine Wheels was performed primarily with backing tape so that doesn't count :) >were actual recordings of a given performance (yes, even _Logos and >Poland!) They were *ALL* remixed/reworked and in some cases >rerecorded! Let's see..._Encore_ was done after Peter left, and >_Livemiles_ was done after Chris left...you know, I don't seem to >recall ANYONE yelling about their 'rights' at the time? The drums, >piano and some additional keys overdubs on _Ricochet_ provoked no >response. _Encore_ is partially comprised of studio material and also >has some overdubs, and don't forget about the the single _Monolight_/ >Hobomarch_. The *ENTIRE* second half of _Pergamon_ was a studio >track! Hermes, it is one thing to remix original material in the context of the original material. Look at how many times the rhythm line of Horns of Doom/Poland-Horizon was recycled. The changes to Logos, etc. are hardly unforgivable. But if I hear those CHEESY FAUX VOCALS and cheap strings that sound like they're coming out of a $100 Casio keyboard on top of vintage material one more time, I'm going to rip my hair out. Why?!?! Why does Edgar insist on cheapening the original sound? I can understand piano and using period equipment, but cripes, I get better strings and vocal sounds out of my Soundblaster 16 with $39 wavetable card. Part of why I love old Tangerine Dream as opposed to the new stuff is the simplicity of the old material. They often left out notes. Have you ever been playing an old TD song in your head and then when you play the CD, you find that you've added more notes in your head than were present on the original recording? That's happened to me several times. Their old material evokes imagination in me. The new material is 'complete'. It's signed, sealed, every single note you can predict will be struck, is struck. I popped in Mars Polaris and I don't think there's a passage on there that surprised me. The new stuff doesn't play around with dark passages and light passages (with the exception of Oasis - Flashflood and Waterbourne) like the old stuff did. Think about Logos and Poland. We're left in desolate passages, with almost no rhythm, just different ethereal effects, and then in comes an invigorating sequence that is, dare I say it? happy! The current stuff is over-everything. Over-percussioned, over-sequenced, over-produced. And they've completely forgotten about the frequencies between 20-90 Hz. >_Poland_ underwent the editing knife, too. Poland underwent the editing knife because of #1 power outages during the concert, #2 the shortness of sides (22 minutes) on a vinyl LP. >_LiveMiles_ should >be called _StudioMiles_! >To be fair, there *was* some griping about >the non-live material being represented as live, Well, the 'real' concerts of 1986 and 1987 played stuff that had already, or was already on its way to wide release on other albums. They should never have called it Livemiles, but just come up with an album name. It's great stuff, and it WAS played live at various times (Spherical Harmonics is proof of that) but stitching it together and recording a fictious introduction for the New Mexico half was rediculous. >After all, 12 years before the 'what the hell is Edgar doing' crowd >started spewing forth their diatribes, Edgar had essentially given us >'Tangents Beyond the Storm'! And nobody blinked!! Maybe some of you >'fans' don't have these particular albums, so you weren't aware of >this tendancy of his. We knew what Beyond the Storm would be ahead of time and it's NOT A BIG DEAL, and honestly, I'm not that upset about Tangents. I never have been, BECAUSE I HAVE THE UNTOUCHED MATERIAL. We just call it Tangentization because that's the boxed set everyone thinks of when we think of overdubs. And Hermes, the two completely-from-scratch tracks on Tangents are actually some of the fans favorite stuff. Logos Blue is a refreshing version of Logos as performed during 1986-present concerts, and the redone version of Phaedra is no slouch either. I guess my biggest frustrations are the faux vocals, strings, and other stuff that contributes zilch. >VERY simply put: what was CREATED by the band, stays WITH the band, >to be used BY the band, no matter *WHO* is in the band. Once you leave >ANY collaborative situation that remains an ongoing concern, with I am not trying to make an ethical or legal statement about Edgar's reworkings. Hell, Johannes Schmoelling, one of my favorite TD band members, completely 'tangentized' his release Zoo of Tranquility and re-released it. But first, an original untouched version was released. And second, from all accounts, the stuff is reworked, not fluffed up. >1) Live versions of older material, and the lack of whining- >I've been to five different shows ('86, '88, '92, '96 and '97), and >have spoken to a great number of fans regarding these and other >years' shows I (we) have on tape. NOT ONCE have I heard anything >REMOTELY like what I've heard regarding the remixes!! >The audiences (including some of you, I trust?) >LOVED THEM!!! Either that, or the persons responsible for making the >fantape(s) added the loud cheering during these pieces! Again, I don't have a major beef against Tangents, because I can get the original material. And I do enjoy the remixed live stuff, as I've heard quite a few concerts with this stuff. Often the remixed versions are better than what made it onto album. The 1977 concerts rocked, no matter how they differed from what appeared on Encore. Hermes, how can I put this? A remix of a 1992 track isn't going to chap my diaper like an overdub of a 1976 track. Why? 1992 is not a big distance in years, considering musically, TD hasn't changed much since then. If you don't know why I think releasing un-futurized pre-1986 material is so important, I probably can't explain it to you and get you to understand. If I were a musician, the leader of a band, I think I would have problems remixing a song without the other musicians being involved, but that's a personal judgement. >Not one thing we want, say or do will make any >difference to Edgar as to what he decides to do with his (yes, *HIS*) >music. And it never should. But if that ever does happen, then that >is the day *I* stop listening. It is one thing for an artist to change their musical style to meet some request on the part of fans. I don't believe in that EITHER! An artist must do what he feels in his heart is the music he wants to produce, without real input from the outside world. Releasing vintage material has little to do with an artist's direction. I know how tempting it is to retouch something you've released. I'm sure all of us have been tempted to rework some piece of art or writing. *sigh* I love, and always will love TD's music. Listening to it has gotten me through some rough spots and the majority of my CD collection is theirs. I'll just go back to my muddy-sounding fantapes. If we begged and begged for Edgar to release un-futurized versions of pre-1986 material, and he released them, you wouldn't buy it? -Morgan n.p. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21644 Re: Never remix anything? egads, it's that Tange Jared White Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB From: 'Charter Dial up' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 5:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) I can concur with Joel...I would hate for Groove to get a bad impression, when all the business I have ever done with Kees and Ron was handled professionally and perfectly within reasonable times considering the distances involved (I am in Atlanta). These guys have definitely filled a void as far as EM goes, and their catalog is simply untouchable. Granted the 'mega' stores may offer a bit more convenience, but have you ever tried to ask someone there to make a recommendation of other releases along the lines of Manuel Gottsching...and get an instantaneous right answer. Plus, who else do you know that sends out autographed copies of discs unsolicited. Kees sent me, unexpectedly, autographed copies of Andy Pickford 'Works II' and Wavestar 'Zenith' (and no, its not for sale!) So, yeah, I'll keep buying from these guys...like Tony the Tiger says...'They're GRRREEEAAAAATTTT!' > Hello all- > IMHO Groove Unlimited is great, I have made thousands of > dollars worth of purchases from them. And if you are looking for > something rare in E-music there is no better choice. I find that > the pricing is good as well, but I usually order enough to get a > 10% discount (20+ CDs) Ron and Kees provide personal service > and attention like no other on-line (or off line for that matter) CD > store I know (and I know alot)..... From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 5:54 pm Subject: Solved: mail problem Hello everyone, I'm sorry if you receive this message more than once. I just want to let you know that my problems with the mail POP account are solved. The old email - gustavfj@m... - is working again. Sorry for the inconvenience, read you soon, Jobim Gustavo F. Jobim - gustavfj@m... http://gfjm.cjb.net From: Joel Mullen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 5:54 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') On Tuesday, April 04, 2000 12:02 PM, Jared White [SMTP:jwhite@s...] wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Hermes Guzman' > > > > IT IS THE ARTISTS' PRIVILEDGE TO DO AS HE OR SHE WISHES WITH THEIR > > WORK! > > > RIGHT ON! Finally, someone who understands what music is really all about -- how refreshing! I agree, however IT IS THE FAN'S PRIVILEGE TO DISAGREE. The artist can do whatever he wants with his music, current,old,tangentized, whatever. But it is our decision to buy it or not, or like it or not. It is really a waste of time to argue otherwise. We can discuss it until we all curl up and die and it won't make any difference and few people will convert from one way of thinking to another. Instead of trying to convince eachother to our way of thinking we should just post comments in the TD guest book (politely BTW) stating either --- I like what you did with xxxxxxxx by adding new sounds to it OR I did not care for the new sounds on the xxxxxxxxx concert releases, PLEASE release it in it's original condition (whatever that may be) Either they will listen or they will not. Regards, Joel From: 'Jared White' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Never remix anything? egads, it's that Tangentizing thread again! ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Feldon Feldon' > If we begged and begged for Edgar to release un-futurized versions of > pre-1986 material, and he released them, you wouldn't buy it? Maybe not. The music on Sohoman was boring, to say the least. Jared From: 'Todd Tornow' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 6:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Mars Polaris & NASA What drives NASA workers to choose feet and inches or metric depends upon how it will impress (and/or fit the 'needs') the superiors at that time. In the case of crashing the car in the parking lot, it happens to be the spouse of the NASA employee since it is probably the 'significant other' that actually owns the car. Todd > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:16:09 +0100 > From: 'David Foster' >Subject: Mars Polaris > >Astrophobia is favourite track at the moment. > >UK news says that it's official........NASA underspent on the project by >33%....probably why the first mission shot past and the second crashed. >What I really want to know is.......when the workers at NASA backup the car >in the parking lot every day, do they use feet and inches or convert into >metric? > >'Sorry, Honey, I crashed the car this morning, I couldn't calculate the >velocity of that back wall...the space was 33% smaller than I expected.' > >David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'crjc' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 6:44 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 447 > From: 'Hermes Guzman' > Subject: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') I'm at home on the digest, so there may be additional messages after this that cover what I'm about to say, but what the hell. A very interesting read, Goozer, if a little condescending at times. Not surprisingly, for such a large post, there are some parts that I agree with and others that I do not. I agree that, as the artist, Edgar reserves all rights as to WHAT he releases and the FORM those releases take. I may even have said so previously on this list. What I take exception to is precisely what one poster commented on previously regarding the 'tangentization' of LIVE material. I don't mean the remixing of material as it is played live, but the subsequent tampering that occurs in the studio prior to release. Someone made a good point previously regarding the way that the studio editing you mentioned (i.e. all live albums except Valentine Wheels and maybe Tournado have been remixed/tinkered with to some extent) occurred at the time and used contemporary instruments. As such, these additions are not as obvious. Not only are the additions on the Sohoman release obvious (IMO), but they are also 'secret'. There is nothing in the liner notes of the CD suggesting that any of the material presented has been remixed, rerecorded or new keyboards added! Totally contrary to Tangents, which goes out of its way to explain the process and mark the remixed and rerecorded tracks as a point of pride. Given that Sohoman in particular comprises almost wholly otherwise officially released material, why tamper with the 'live' recording and release it as a 'live' album? Why not tamper with the studio versions of Convention of the 24, White Eagle, Logos and that bit from Poland (aka Ayers Majestic) and release a TDI version of Tangents? Perhaps the answer to that is the real answer to the situation. Cheers for now, Craig Cordrey @ home Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21666 Re: Digest Number 447 Gabe Yedid Wed 4/5/2000 4 KB 21673 Re: Digest Number 447 Chris Richards Wed 4/5/2000 3 KB From: horrod6 Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 7:24 pm Subject: AshRa Just thought you'd like to know that in today's Guardian (UK broadsheet newspaper) the review of the Cope concert referred to AshRa's style as 'Krautadelia', which is a new one on me! The review focussed on Cope's material, so there really wasn't anything else of interest in it as far as I was concerned (with due respect to those of you who like it, it's considerably 'OT'). LnH Marion From: Joel Mullen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 7:48 pm Subject: Off Topic and too late for April 1st Hello- Does anyone on-list live in or around Bloomington IL? I want to play a joke on a co-owrker and I need to have a package postmarked from Bloomington (I will send it to you and then you send it to him. I will send money for postage) Just in case you are wondering it is an 'internet for dummies' book. Let's just say he is 'older' and he has a computer wiz son who lives in Bloomington. I guess I am just bored today! (not that I don't have alot of work to do) Regards, Joel From: Joel Mullen Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 7:52 pm Subject: correction Make that 'co-worker' not ' co-owrker' Maybe I need 'spelling for dummies' From: horrod6 Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 7:55 pm Subject: re: HUGE POST (with huge title) With respect, goozer, CALM DOWN! Maybe it's because you're an artist yourself and you're oversensitive on the topic of 'the artist's priviledge to do what he or she wishes with the work'. Of course it is. I doubt if you would find anybody on this list who thinks otherwise. But it is the purchaser's priviledge to like or dislike the end result and to express their opinion about it. Just the same as if someone asks my opinion of the original vinyl release of , say, Zeit, I have the right to tell them all the reasons I don't like it as well as all the reasons I do . I don't take 'tangentized' to be necessarily a perjorative (sp?) term. To me, it just means that the original material has been added to more recently. I like to know whether something has been 'tangentized' or not, *not* because that makes it worse or better, but so that I have a clearer idea of what I will be getting for my money. I am not a sheep-like zillionaire who will buy absolutely everything the band puts out just because it has the TD name on it, nor am I an avid collector who buys everything for completely different reasons (get that in quick before all you non-sheep-like collectors start sending me unpleasant parcels!) - I have my tastes, and I will buy material that I think is likely to appeal to them. That is MY priviledge. You make one point that I will disagree with flat out. You say that the original material is still available. Well, many of the live concerts aren't - not unless you buy boots, and we've already had a long and very inconclusive discussion on that topic which I wouldn't want to reignite. And if you've been keenly looking forward to getting your hands (ears?) on some original concert material, only to discover (possibly after parting with your hard-earned dosh) that it is not in fact original concert material but a modern piece making use of that material, you may feel disappointed. That's quite enough from me on that topic LnH Marion From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 8:13 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics Bingo! It is my impression that most people in this 'hardcore' fan community of ours don't comprehend that we represent a only mere drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things for TDI. We're only a few hundred people. Do you really think that the sum of our piddly little purchases support TDI's expenses and the Froese's personal incomes? There must be some reason you can find their music in so many places. People all around the world are buying it. So, it is to laugh! I seriously doubt that this larger worldwide demographic whines and complains about 'purist' or 'completist' topics we find here, like whether or not something is 'tangentized' or if TDI is 'ripping us off' by changing their album covers on classic albums, or whatever. (sheesh!) But don't get me wrong- I would ALSO rather the classic concerts were untouched, but it cracks me up how incensed people get over these things, as if they think they are really that important in the greater scheme of things. Or worse yet, as if Edgar 'owes' them something. That really cracks me up. So this all just underscores how fortunate we are to have TDI here, through Martin, to take any time to participate. The fact that he is here at all shows that Edgar (and yes, Edgar does call the shots) actually does care about the fans, despite the rantings of those who are convinced otherwise. After writing the above, I read goozer's (long!) post, and man, you are right on, and I appreciate it. It is usually the whiners that get all the airplay, and unfortunately, some people (hopefully not TDI) perceive that because the level heads don't take the time to rebuff them, that that (angst) is the general attitude of this list. As Jared said- Refreshing! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: olle.rundgren@s... ... > why Edgar decides to add new dimensions to the old concert > material. It must have to do with attracting a wider audience. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21655 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Sean Montgomery Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB 21657 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Joe Shoults Tue 4/4/2000 3 KB 21658 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Sean Montgomery Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB 21660 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Jim Moore Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB 21662 Re: RE: Classics or no classics tom george Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB 21664 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Gabe Yedid Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB 21668 Re: RE: Classics or no classics tom george Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB 21678 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Feldon Feldon Wed 4/5/2000 3 KB From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 8:40 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') > From: Hermes Guzman [mailto:goozer@a...] > They were *ALL* remixed/reworked and in some cases > rerecorded! Let's see..._Encore_ was done after Peter left, and > _Livemiles_ was done after Chris left...you know, I don't seem to > recall ANYONE yelling about their 'rights' at the time? The drums, > piano and some additional keys overdubs on _Ricochet_ provoked no > response. _Encore_ is partially comprised of studio material and also > has some overdubs, and don't forget about the the single _Monolight_/ > Hobomarch_. The *ENTIRE* second half of _Pergamon_ was a studio > track! _Poland_ underwent the editing knife, too. _LiveMiles_ should > be called _StudioMiles_! Yes, but it was done at the same time with the instruments they had at that time. Why wouldn't edgar use a mellotron sample to do some overdubs to have at least that same 'time-frame feeling'? I wonder if the new Pink Floyd live album from the Wall period has new overdubs? :-) Marcel Music-page :http://home.wxs.nl/~m1engels Email :fsp@w... From: Sean Montgomery Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 8:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') I feel compelled to offer a bit of a rebuttal here too, and I'll try not to repeat what others have already said (points whic I pretty much agree with) On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Hermes Guzman wrote: > IT IS THE ARTISTS' PRIVILEDGE TO DO AS HE OR SHE WISHES WITH THEIR > WORK! I suppose that's true enough, but I think they should at least come clean with their fans about what they're doing with the work. If the band insists on doctoring everything they put out, they should be upfront about it, saying: this is our 2000 interpretation of the 1976 concert, and not a true live recording. I'm one of the purists too...if I want to hear 'new TD', I will buy the new TD album. But what I hoped to hear here was the original show...and that's what Martin Kay indicated that we would be getting. Perhaps that was an honest mistake on his part, but still, it was news from an official source, and to hear that we have once again been handed a TDI-fied digital rehash is a disappointent. But not a shock. I did not pre-order the album. I've been burnt by TDI before on Hollywood Years and Sohoman and decided to wait and hear some reviews first, which I'm glad I did. I will be skipping Soundmill Navigator. If enough of us do this, perhaps the band will be induced to release an undoctored version. After all, they have expressed no hesitation to release the same album with three or four different covers in a bid to get the collectors to buy them all. I'm just waiting for them to start issuing TD Pokemon cards. > As an artist, I completely concur with Edgar's decision to > remix/rerecord the material. No piece of work is perfect, or truly > finished, from an artists' standpoint. I prefer Terry Gilliam's attitude. On his Brazil director's commentary, he mentions that he'd do some things differently now, but he wouldn;t change them, because the film was a reflection of where he was artistically at the time. It's done, finished...time to move on. If he has something new to say, he'll say it in a new film. > The _Tangents_ box, _Book of Dreams_, _Dream Roots Collection_, > _Sohoman_ and _Soundmill Navigator_ are all examples of an artist who > continually strives to offer new ideas and fresh direction Oh really? You would call these release an example of 'new ideas?' I hear the same ideas repeated over and over. A choral sample here, and swooshy sound there. It's an attempt to homogonize their musical output, and it's akin to what Lucas did with his Star Wars reissues. The smaller budget of the originals compelled him to do more with less, whereas now he feels compelled to fill every frame with twittering droids and furry plush toys. > The constant bitching about 'Tangentizing' really makes me boil! Did I > miss something, or is this just too simple...THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL > STILL EXISTS!! The real bitching about Tangentizing has only really started with releases like Sohoman and The Keep, where the original material *IS NOT* available. > Especially considering that none of the live albums released during > that era (or any era until _Valentine Wheels_) were actual recordings > of a given performance (yes, even _Logos and Poland!) They were *ALL* > remixed/reworked and in some cases rerecorded! But at least these changes were done shortly after the original shows, with the same equipment, ensuring that the changes made would be in keeping with the 'sound' of the source material. Ricochet, Encore, Logos...yes, all were partially created in studio but they still sound like the material played at the shows (even Pergamon, which was doctored 6 years after the show it captures, still sounds like 1980). The same can not be said about Sohoman or, it seems, SN. In the end, I think what my main beef is with this endless Tangentizing is that in the end, most of it just isn't very good. It's unimaginative tinkering that does nothing to improve the original. And that's the case 95 times out of a 100 when an artist tries to fix up an earlier piece of work. But that's just my opinion...I'm not saying that this is an objective fact. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Craig Chambers' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 8:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') > I wonder if the new Pink Floyd live album from the Wall period has > new overdubs? :-) The thought on that is that all the music is genuine, though admittedly by James Guthrie, pulled from many performances at Earl's Court. I guess it is nice to have 10 nights of 64 track tapes to work with...I haven't heard it yet, but I have heard sonically this rivals the studio re-remasters. Can't wait to get it though. From: Sean Montgomery Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 8:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Joe Shoults wrote: > After writing the above, I read goozer's (long!) post, and man, you are > right on, and I appreciate it. It is usually the whiners that get all the > airplay, and unfortunately, some people (hopefully not TDI) perceive that > because the level heads don't take the time to rebuff them, that that > (angst) is the general attitude of this list. I think that this list would be boring indeed (rather like the TD webpage's guestbook), if all we did was praise everything TD does. As long as we don't get into personal attacks and rude insults, I think there should be room to argue here. Let us have different points of view, and be allowed to make up our own minds. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Frank Arellano' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 10:34 pm Subject: Re: Canyon Dreams Hi everyone, I just wanted to concur with Heiko and a few others that I thought Canyon Dreams is one of TD's best soundtracks. To me its main competition would come from Oasis and Mars Polaris. I differ from Heiko and Dennis in that I thought Sudden Revelation was the weakest track of the CD. Overall, I thought the CD was solid. I thought the music flowed and worked well with the video. My favorite track would be a hard call, but Canyon Carver was one that stood out on its first spin. Frank Arellano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 9:52 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics I absolutely agree 100%. I thihnnk a balanced discourse is beneficial and productive. I'm just saying that it is too often that there are more complaints than rational arguments. Frankly, not everybody posits their arguments in as lucid a manner as you, Sean, so I speak mainly to those who forget (or neglect) to do so. Maybe I have a different perspective. I think of the newbie coming in to this list, never having been exposed to extant psychopurist attitudes and saying, 'Geez, what a bunch of whiners! I thought this was a FAN list!' and turning away. We don't want to cultivate a list culture that lives in it's own little bubble of angst that serves no one, even themselves. (did that make sense?) joe P.S.- I went out to Borders at lunch, determined to get Soundmill Navigator, but they didn't have it. dammit. (after battling 30 minutes of traffic, I was determined to buy SOMETHING, so it was between Vangelis-El Greco and TD-Encore. I bought Encore.) np: encore > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Montgomery [mailto:sean@t...] ... > I think that this list would be boring indeed (rather like the TD > webpage's guestbook), if all we did was praise everything TD does. As > long as we don't get into personal attacks and rude insults, > I think there > should be room to argue here. Let us have different points > of view, and be allowed to make up our own minds. > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21658 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Sean Montgomery Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB 21660 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Jim Moore Tue 4/4/2000 2 KB From: Sean Montgomery Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 9:45 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics > We don't want to cultivate a list culture that lives in it's own little > bubble of angst that serves no one, even themselves. When I first joined the list, I was actually quite excited to see there were people out there who had an opinion of *any* kind about TD. I had rarely encountered TD fans in 'real life'. I also think it's important to say that none of us would be here if we weren't a fan of the band. I may gripe and spit venom, but no other band occupies so much of my shelf space as TD does. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 9:09 pm Subject: Re: D:Soundtrack [Deadly Care] > if we all had to make a list of our Top 20 TD albums I would bet that > absolutely no-one would include 'Deadly care'..am I right or what?! ;-) > Heiko I don't even reckon it would be in my top 40! Lawry NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 10:43 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics From: Joe Shoults [mailto:joes@c...] >P.S.- I went out to Borders at lunch, determined to get Soundmill Navigator, >but they didn't have it. dammit. (after battling 30 minutes of traffic, I >was determined to buy SOMETHING, so it was between Vangelis-El Greco and >TD-Encore. I bought Encore.) That's a win-win situation there... _El Greco_ is an incredible album, too. - jim From: Vic Rek Date: Tue Apr 4, 2000 10:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee question, cost. Hi Todd! Good question. About $15 night and you have to bring your own food. We also suggest a nice TD donation to the raffle for the attending fans - but not required! Also, a close fan is serving vennison for dinner and we have a canoe... and LIVE MUSIC! Vic Todd Tornow wrote: > > How much does the whole thing cost? > > Todd > From: 'tom george' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 12:02 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics i went to Border's friday and lo and behold they had Tang-go. i bought it and even though i have everything on it i like the selections and i think at 18.50 it is a good value for the dollar. even better i went to my other favorite store today and got Soundmill Navigator. i have played it through twice and it is INCREDIBLE. thank you Edgar for not changing anything and for giving equal credit to Froese and Baumann. the liner notes are great and the sound is wonderful. please keep the TD Classics coming. Tom Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21664 Re: RE: Classics or no classics Gabe Yedid Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB From: 'kayleigh' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 1:27 am Subject: Soundmill Navigator - what is it? Hey there all. Wanted to inquire as to what this Soundmill Navigator is? I've never heard of it. IS this something that allows people to not pay for official commercial release stuff? I do not want that at all, I'd prefer to BUY the stuff and support the band, but this stuff has had huge interest from a lot of people, so thought I'd ask. Also wanted to find out regarding anything of videos of Tangerine Dream? I know there is 220 Volt and is there anything else (live concert videos that were released, possibly DVD videos, etc), just thought i'd ask about that? I can't do laserdisk, as I don't have one (GRIN), but what about VHS or DVD? AND if so, where's it at (available) thanks. dan Kayleigh's Playhouse! http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! ICQ# 1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 From: Gabe Yedid Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 1:46 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, tom george wrote: > even better i went to my other favorite store today and got Soundmill > Navigator. i have played it through twice and it is INCREDIBLE. thank > you Edgar for not changing anything and for giving equal credit to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ HUH??? Either you have a true collector's item here--an unmodified version!--or this is a most incredible case of 'selective earmuffs'... > Froese and Baumann. the liner notes are great and the sound is ^^^^^^ Double HUH???? (;-)...right?...) or do the notes actually credit two Froeses? Gabe From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 1:57 am Subject: Castle Releases I have seen a whole lot of Castle Reissues popping up in the last week with Y2K dates on them! Regards, Michael A. Jean Did you know you can email money with PayPal.com? PayPal.com is a completely free service that lets users Beam Money to anyone with an email address. Click on this link to sign up and see for yourself: https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=michaeljean%40earthlink.net From: Gabe Yedid Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 2:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 447 On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, crjc wrote: > What I take exception to is precisely what one poster commented on > previously regarding the 'tangentization' of LIVE material. I don't mean the > remixing of material as it is played live, but the subsequent tampering that > occurs in the studio prior to release. Someone made a good point previously > regarding the way that the studio editing you mentioned (i.e. all live > albums except Valentine Wheels and maybe Tournado have been remixed/tinkered > with to some extent) occurred at the time and used contemporary instruments. > As such, these additions are not as obvious. All artistic concerns aside, I would think that economic considerations would provide a good enough reason not to do it. I see this as only perpetuating, and maybe even reinforcing, the demand for bootlegs and fan tapes. If Edgar absolutely refuses to release unadulterated versions (however good his reasons may be), there will always be those willing to create their own market for what it is they want, given that alternative sources are available (even if they're of dubious quality and 'pedigree'). > Not only are the additions on the Sohoman release obvious (IMO), but they > are also 'secret'. There is nothing in the liner notes of the CD suggesting > that any of the material presented has been remixed, rerecorded or new > keyboards added! Totally contrary to Tangents, which goes out of its way to > explain the process and mark the remixed and rerecorded tracks as a point of > pride. And let's not forget about the guitar solo on 'Bondi Parade' that, um...isn't. > Given that Sohoman in particular comprises almost wholly otherwise > officially released material, why tamper with the 'live' recording and > release it as a 'live' album? Why not tamper with the studio versions of > Convention of the 24, White Eagle, Logos and that bit from Poland (aka Ayers > Majestic) and release a TDI version of Tangents? Perhaps the answer to that > is the real answer to the situation. I would say instead that maybe only the unreleased bits of these concerts need to be released, except where the live versions are very different from the studio originals. With whole sets being unreleased, that becomes a problem. Gabe From: 'tom george' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 1:54 am Subject: Re: [tadream] D: Soundtrack[Deadly care] sorry Heiko, but i really like this album. i don't know about top 20 but it would be close if not in there. it is moody and slow and that is why i like it. i like it because it is so different from their other albums. 'Rumplestiltskin' is another album i really enjoy because of its difference. i have never seen the 'Deadly Care' movie but i really enjoy the music. Tom -- On Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:47:20 Heiko Heerssen wrote: >'Deadly care'... > >if we all had to make a list of our Top 20 TD albums I would bet that >absolutely no-one would include 'Deadly care'..am I right or what?! ;-) > >Heiko > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21740 Re: D: Soundtrack[Deadly care] aoutland@a... Fri 4/7/2000 5 KB From: 'tom george' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 2:31 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics hi gabe, yes selective earmuffs it is. i really didn't mean that he didn't add sounds. i just think it is a whole lot better then 'Sohoman' and still retains a 70's feel to me. i also don't hear the annoying frrsh sound that others have been talking about. and i meant to say Franke and Baumann and not a double Froese. no complaints from this fan on 'SN'. tom >HUH??? Either you have a true collector's item here--an unmodified >version!--or this is a most incredible case of 'selective earmuffs'... > >> Froese and Baumann. the liner notes are great and the sound is >Gabe > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com From: 'Greg' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 3:50 am Subject: Different Version of Mars Polaris For those people asking about a different version of Mars Polaris with a mix of Great Wall of China tracks.. this seems to be a rareity! Didn't something like this happen some other time in history.... hmmmm... Greg H from: http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html '- Different version of Mars Polaris We have been informed of an alternate version of Mars Polaris circulating the shops, which features a different tracklisting that consists of songs from the original Mars- release and from Great Wall of China,. Upon investigation, we had to find out that this version indeed exists due to an error committed in the manufacturing plant. Shortly before the initial release of Great Wall of China, a compilation- CD, featuring a cross- section of the aforementioned and Mars Polaris, was planned for the purpose of collectively promoting Tangerine Dream´s two latest studio efforts. A master was submitted to the manufacturing plant and a glas master was made, yet the effort was then cancelled in favor of a compilation project that would provide a larger overview of TDI´s releases, which we deemed more efficient. Contrary to our orders, the glas master for this cross- section was not destroyed. It was then accidentally confused with the original master for Mars Polaris for one manufacturing run by the pressing plant. Artwork and labelprint from Mars Polaris were used, but what you hear on the disc is actually the cross- section that was intended for the promotional disc. Good news is, that only a few 100 copies of this mispressing exist. The only problem is that the faulty copies cannot be spotted from the outside because, appearance- wise, they are 100% identical to the regular Mars Polaris. The difference is that they feature 11 tracks from both Mars Polaris and Great Wall of China, with a total playing time of 59:38 min., as opposed to 10 tracks and a total playing time of 70:55 min. on the original release. We will, of course, replace any copy of the mispressing immediately for a correct copy and apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.' From: 'Frank Arellano' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 7:39 am Subject: RE: Classics or no classics On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 Tom George wrote: Where the hell have you been the previous fifty some entries!? Hey, aren't you the same Tom George who started all these flame wars!? Everybody torch the f*^#*:)r !!! Just kidding Tom. Glad to see somebody let you back in, ha ha. Re: Classics or no classics On Tue, 4 Apr 2000 Gabe Yedid wrote: < Huh??? Either you have a true collector's item here-- an unmodified version!-- or this is a most incredible case of 'selective earmuffs.'> How do those earmuff's fit Tom? Frank Arellano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'teiwaz _' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 6:42 am Subject: Joel. I think it's 'cow-orker' Well we can all be happy that edgar doesn't completely emulate his mentor Salvador Dali and do the musical equivalent of signing blank canvases late in his career to let others do with what they wish. Of course 'Rubycon Revisited' may very well be an example of what can happen. --teiwaz np Coil's 'unreleased themes' from HELLRAISER ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Jens Kilian Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 7:03 am Subject: Analog tape degradation > From: Glenn Reinicke > Subject: Soundmill Navigator noise [...] > FYI: there used to be a great article on the Wendy Carlos website which > dealt with the decomposition of analog master tapes. She actually had to > bake some of her old tapes in an oven to remove the moisture before getting > being able to remaster. I get the feeling that a lot of older recordings of > any band recorded to analog tape is likely to be problematic. All the more reason to get the old media converted to digital ASAP. (And released on CD, of course :-) Jens. -- mailto:jjk@a... phone:+49-7031-464-7698 (HP TELNET 778-7698) http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-464-7351 PGP: 06 04 1C 35 7B DC 1F 26 As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, 0x555DA8B5 BB A2 F0 66 77 75 E1 08 so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake] From: Chris Richards Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 8:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 447 <> Yes and no. From what I understand, the issue at the heart of the matter relates to a particular brand of tape, specifically Ampex. During the 70's and early 80's, Ampex had a virtual monopoly on professional recording tape. Sometime during the 80's, I think it was, it was realised that Ampex had been using an unstable chemical formula to create their tape from. Or something like that. Anyway, the tapes were literally starting to decompose, as you say. Wendy hasn't been the only artist who has experienced this problem. I first became aware from reading the liner notes of Boston's Third Stage album where Tom Scholz talks about having to use a silicone based compound of some kind that he had to pour brush onto the tape capstam to keep the master tapes from sticking to the capstan. I'm under the impression that pretty much anytime you see a CD that claims to be 'remastered', more than likely, they had to bake the tapes before they were able to use them. I believe in that Wendy Carlos essay you mentioned, she actually mentions she only had to do this with some of her earlier recordings because she eventually switched to another brand of tape. NP: Tangerine Dream 'Convention of the 24' (Sohoman) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Chris Richards Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 8:23 am Subject: Re: Chris Franke <<2) Chris' own 'Tangents' tendancies- Does anyone on the 'let's bash Edgar' commitee recall the title of Christoph's first post TD release? More to the point, do you remember *where* it came from? I'll give you a hint...it wasn't solely original to Chris! It was 'Vermillion Sands', a track from the Europe leg of the '86 Tour. But it was...*altered*! And it was done WITHOUT EDGAR'S OR PAUL'S INPUT! Hmmmmmmmm. And let's not forget the remix of 'Dolphin Dance' on _The London Concert_, or the excerpts from 'Betrayal' and 'Cloudburst Fight', or the sequence from _Pacific Coast Highway's_ 'Mountain Heights' (from _Optical Race's_ 'Turning Off the Wheel'!) Granted, these are only a small number comparatively, but 'a little leaven leavens the whole'. If it is wrong for Edgar to do it, it is JUST as wrong for Chris to do it. So I guess then that must mean that Chris has no problem with it....>> Well, I can't comment on Vermillion Sands or the Pacific Coast Highway Track, but there's nothing unusual about an artist performing material from his past bands in concert. Cases in point: 1. Steve Winwood frequently performs material from both Traffic and The Spencer Davis Group in his solo concerts (and Traffic included Gimme Some Lovin on one of their live albums). 2. David Gilmour and Roger Waters have both performed Pink Floyd songs in their solo concerts (Waters even going so far as to reprise the entire Wall album onstage in Berlin and then releasing a heavily 'tampered with' album of the performance) 3. Steve Howe has performed Yessongs in his solo concerts (even attempting to sing them) and again has released some on his solo live albums. Jon Anderson has also done Yessongs in his solo performances. I can also think of Roger McGuinn (from The Byrds), Fish (Marillion), Ace Frehley (Kiss), Randy Bachman (BTO and The Guess Who) and lots of other people do it. And as stated above, it's not unusual for artists to release some of those performances on any live album that gets released. So why should Chris Franke not include a couple TD pieces on one of his live albums? NP: TD 'Ayers Majestic' (Sohoman) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 28399 Chris Franke Duncan McKee Fri 8/10/2001 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 9:06 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Chris Franke Chris Richards wrote: > Does anyone on the 'let's bash Edgar' commitee > recall the title of Christoph's first post TD > release? 'Let's bash Edgar committee'....ha ha !! I hope that because of my rather negative review of 'SN' I haven't become a member of it... Some of Edgar's re-interpretations are excellent to me ears, for example 'Mojave plan' on Tangents. I more and more get the impression that he is an artist who always looks ahead and who doesn't like releasing old TD music. And if he feels the urge to release it (although I suspect this 'Classic series' would not have been created without the constant complaining of fans to release older recordings), then he tries to see this as a challenge to create something new, something which he thinks is the best and most perfect way of releasing music. I guess he's like a sculptor who revisits old statues he once made and who now knows how to make them better. Unfortunately not everyone likes it that way (myself included), but I'm glad that TD is still making music after 30 years, and albums like Mars Polaris or TimeSquare show that they haven't run out of ideas yet. So be thankful ;-) Heiko From: Chris Richards Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 8:55 am Subject: Re: Other Music Some of my favorites: Yes Allman Brothers Band Deep Purple Black Sabbath Kiss The Who Marillion (especially Fish years) Queen Boston Iron Maiden Genesis Emerson Lake & Palmer King Crimson Charles Mingus John Coltrane Miles Davis (mainly the early 70's stuff) Rush Uriah Heep Hawkwind Steve Hillage Gong Grateful Dead Pink Floyd Ozric Tentacles Igor Stravinsky György Ligeti Edgard Varese Eric Dolphy Ornette Coleman Magma Can Soft Machine Blue Öyster Cult Thin Lizzy Rahsaan Roland Kirk Led Zeppelin Van Der Graaf Generator Eloy and too many others to list!!!! :-) NP ELP: 'Toccata' (Brain Salad Surgery) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: 'Patrik .' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 3:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee This sunday, the 9:th of April, Swedish Television Channel 1 will show a film about Okefenokee, a nature and wildlife series called 'Ett med naturen'. A funny coincidence, isn´t it? Eller vad säger ni Thomas och Olle? regards Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 10:08 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: Classics or no classics >From: 'Joe Shoults' > >Bingo! > >It is my impression that most people in this 'hardcore' fan community of >ours don't comprehend that we represent a only mere drop in the bucket in >the overall scheme of things for TDI. We're only a few hundred people. Do >you really think that the sum of our piddly little purchases support TDI's >expenses and the Froese's personal incomes? There must be some reason you >can find their music in so many places. People all around the world are >buying it. > >So, it is to laugh! I seriously doubt that this larger worldwide >demographic whines and complains about 'purist' or 'completist' topics we >find here, like whether or not something is 'tangentized' or if TDI is >'ripping us off' by changing their album covers on classic albums, or >whatever. (sheesh!) Then let Tangerine Dream join all the other music groups who just stuff anything down our throats because we have no value in the grand scheme of things as consumers. If being a purist consumer means nothing to the artist, why did (strange example, brace yourself) Capcom, a gaming company, get tens of thousands of returns and refund/exchange (and a TON of press) on their 'Resident Evil (Director's Cut)' when consumers found out it was still censored compared to the japanese edition? The moment we think we have no value or affect as consumers is the moment that companies like Microsoft can walk over us with poorly written software, delivered late, for too much money. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: olle.rundgren@s... Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 10:45 am Subject: The classic saga continues -In Response to posting by Joe Shoults, digest 448- Oh my, not a very popular input the latest one obviously. My general opinion is that when the discussion starts to get affected it is better to leave it. Why hurt anyone if you can avoid it. However this being a discussion list, what the...let's have some fun: >>>It is my impression that most people in this 'hardcore' fan community of ours don't comprehend that we represent a only mere drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things for TDI. We're only a few hundred people. Do you really think that the sum of our piddly little purchases support TDI's expenses and the Froese's personal incomes? There must be some reason you can find their music in so many places. People all around the world are buying it.<<< Right you are. I didn't oppose to this in my posting. On the contrary I said I believe that Edgar is trying to attract a wider audience than in the 70's. No objections to this, just a theory. What I said is I cannot understand why change historic concert material and make it into something that is way different from the original when the original in itself is excellent (I took other listmember/s words for this as I haven't heard the original Soundmill concert recording. Note that I refrained from commenting on Soundmill Navigator as I need to hear it through first). This was a general opinion I stand for, however annoyed it might make those with different opinions. >>>So this all just underscores how fortunate we are to have TDI here, through Martin, to take any time to participate. The fact that he is here at all shows that Edgar (and yes, Edgar does call the shots) actually does care about the fans, despite the rantings of those who are convinced otherwise.<<< Right again and that is exactly why I find this a perfect place to voice my opinion. The decision to call it ranting is entirely yours. >>>After writing the above, I read goozer's (long!) post, and man, you are right on, and I appreciate it. It is usually the whiners that get all the airplay, and unfortunately, some people (hopefully not TDI) perceive that because the level heads don't take the time to rebuff them, that that (angst) is the general attitude of this list. As Jared said- Refreshing!<<< It was probably refreshing but I find that a lot on this list fits into that category, regardless of opinions. My main objection, and I guess I have voiced that one before here, is that as a fan I appreciate to be treated in a fair way. I have about 45 official TD releases in my collection and I still buy the discs if not with the same intensity as before. What really annoys me is the tendency to release, re-release, re-re-release, re-re-re-release material in different shapes and sometimes together with new material, all with the sole purpose of squeezing extra money out of the old fans. Not fair at all, even if TD definately is not the only band doing this. The trend is an accelaration of this behavior during the later part of their carreer. I want it to be clear what it is that I am buying, that's it actually and it doesn't apply only to compilations of different sorts. I was happy to hear about the release of Soundmill navigator but if it turns out to be way different from the original please make it clear. The fact that I would rather like to see the original concert recording released is merely an opinion (shame on me for that, being just a drop in the bucket). Ponto final. Have a genuinly magnificent day! Olle R. Np: Neil Ardley - Harmony of the spheres From: Nigbur D Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 11:11 am Subject: RE: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') Goozer, a long but very insightful and interesting contribution. I would tend to agree with you on most of the points you make, and it was probably necessary to re-open people's eyes. Constant discussion on the mailing list may de-sensitise some of us to the intricacies of some of our topics. An addition to the last point you make - maybe it is true that contemporary culture tends to normalise any type of interpersonal or intergroup interaction into a token of the market economy. We are perpetually made aware of the power of the customer, with a ridiculous proliferation of Watchdog-type customer programmes and inflated customer expectations being one of the results. We need to remember that (even though there is a great deal of money involved and the music business, including TDI, will inevitably try to milk the customer for all they can get) the creative field of music is not a service industry. It relies not on the call for a certain product and the facilities available to produce it, but mainly on the artist's unilateral supply of creative material. It is entirely up to him (or, more abstractly, his ideas and inspiration) what he produces, when he produces it, and what he does with it subsequently. Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21681 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Nigbur D Wed 4/5/2000 3 KB 21682 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Greg Wed 4/5/2000 3 KB 21692 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Feldon Feldon Wed 4/5/2000 4 KB 21702 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Jared White Thu 4/6/2000 4 KB 21704 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Greg Thu 4/6/2000 4 KB 21713 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Nigbur D Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB 21714 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me Nigbur D Thu 4/6/2000 2 KB 21725 Bad Attitudes Running Rampant Jared White Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB From: Nigbur D Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 11:23 am Subject: RE: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') > ---------- > From: Sean Montgomery[SMTP:sean@t...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 04 April 2000 21:47 > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme > chose (RE:'Tangentizing') > > TD', I will buy the new TD album. But what I hoped to hear here was the > original show...and that's what Martin Kay indicated that we would be > getting. Perhaps that was an honest mistake > This is true. While it is the artist's right to modify older material in any way he likes, misleading the public is quite a different thing. But as you say, honest mistakes do happen. I won't accuse TDI of deliberate misdirection. > version. After all, they have expressed no hesitation to release the same > album with three or four different covers in a bid to get the collectors > to buy them all. I'm just waiting for them to start issuing TD Pokemon > cards. > It seems a bit paranoid to regard this as a marketing ploy. I know that there may be completists who are so completist that they would buy the same record over and over again to own every cover ever made for it and have one copy of the CD from every country in which it was released. And good luck to them, this is the sort of collection that will be worth ridiculous amounts of money one day. But it is still their own decision to have such a comprehensive collection, not TDI's. I'm not aware of TDI ever telling people to buy Rockoon with the new cover if they already have the original release. I would agree that new releases with all the old material plus bonus tracks seem a bit dubious with regard to the con mafia (as done twice with 'Tyger', for instance). But that's a different issue. Dennis From: 'Greg' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 12:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') I thought I'd a few short comments to this discussion; to what I simply believe isthe reason here. I'll try not to be too verbose. Reason for Tangentizing: 1. Fans who have followed the band for many years, who prefer older material from the 70's are assumed to have a bit of fan tapes and recordings. Thus, possibility of said classic concert likeness to be aquired and in circulation is fairly high. Soundmill Navigator is not for you ONLY if you will not accept the tangentazions. It is a different take on what you remember or own yourself already. 2. Casual fans who only obtain official releases will find Soundmill Navigator as a good album. Not only do they not care incredibly much where this music came from, but that it was editted and mixed with cleaner, higher fidelity sounds. These people probably would not subscribe to this list, or call themselves 'fans of TD.' These are the adult comtemporary new age music fans which make a wider audience. Thus the use of TD music in golf programming. You have to remember that TD is making more accesible music.. remember the first time you picked up Encore or Rubycon.. or whatever older album after your first exposure with TD was Melrose? Like me, I practically despised and laughed at such albums before I finally sat down and participated with the music. such heady space music re-released in the era of Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2. But no one ever did it like TD, and I think they should be very proud of their accomplishments for the whole of the modern musical world. Greg H. From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 1:31 pm Subject: RE: one list / egroups > -----Original Message----- > Hi Joe, > Every since the switch to egroups my 'filter' in Eudora does > not work. I > have tried to re-set the filter but to no avail. There is a > ton of stuff in > all the headers...do you have any idea on what I can set the filter? > Thanks for your help. > Steve G. Yes, Steve- I've run into the same thing. In Outlook, the fix is simple enough: I right-click on the new address and 'Add to Contacts', then go to the Rules Wizard and add the new egroups address to the filters I already have in place. I had to do this for each egroups list. Maybe there is a similar procedure in Eudora, but I'm not familiar with that program. Good luck, Joe From: Peter Ravn Date: (Date Unavailable) Subject: Re: [[tadream] Analog tape degradation ] Yes there is problems with old tapes - follow this link and read about how the master tapes for the tv series 'Space:1999' was handled : http://www.kikgraphics.demon.co.uk/1999music.html They produced 2 lovely double cd's with the original music.... Regards, Peter Jens Kilian wrote: > --------------------------------------------- > Attachment:  > MIME Type: multipart/alternative > --------------------------------------------- > From: Glenn Reinicke > Subject: Soundmill Navigator noise [...] > FYI: there used to be a great article on the Wendy Carlos website which > dealt with the decomposition of analog master tapes. She actually had to > bake some of her old tapes in an oven to remove the moisture before getting > being able to remaster. I get the feeling that a lot of older recordings of > any band recorded to analog tape is likely to be problematic. All the more reason to get the old media converted to digital ASAP. (And released on CD, of course :-) Jens. -- mailto:jjk@a... phone:+49-7031-464-7698 (HP TELNET 778-7698) http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-464-7351 PGP: 06 04 1C 35 7B DC 1F 26 As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, 0x555DA8B5 BB A2 F0 66 77 75 E1 08 so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake] ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From: 'Quichotte' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 2:24 pm Subject: Re: Never remix anything? egads, it's that Tangentizing thread again! -----Original Message----- From: tadream@egroups.com [mailto:tadream@egroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 3:46 AM To: tadream@egroups.com Subject: [tadream] Digest Number 448 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PERFORM CPR ON YOUR APR! Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/2121/3/_/24785/_/954899174/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://www.tadream.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 25 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Never remix anything? egads, it's that Tangentizing thread again! From: 'Feldon Feldon' 2. Re: Missing SN (Groove Unlimited) From: 'Charter Dial up' 3. Solved: mail problem From: Gustavo Jobim 4. RE: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') From: Joel Mullen 5. Re: Never remix anything? egads, it's that Tangentizing thread again! From: 'Jared White' 6. Re: Mars Polaris & NASA From: 'Todd Tornow' 7. Re: Digest Number 447 From: 'crjc' 8. AshRa From: horrod6 9. Off Topic and too late for April 1st From: Joel Mullen 10. correction From: Joel Mullen 11. re: HUGE POST (with huge title) From: horrod6 12. RE: RE: Classics or no classics From: 'Joe Shoults' 13. RE: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') From: 'Marcel Engels' 14. Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') From: Sean Montgomery 15. Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') From: 'Craig Chambers' 16. RE: RE: Classics or no classics From: Sean Montgomery 17. Re: Canyon Dreams From: 'Frank Arellano' 18. RE: RE: Classics or no classics From: 'Joe Shoults' 19. RE: RE: Classics or no classics From: Sean Montgomery 20. Re: D:Soundtrack [Deadly Care] From: 'Lawry Simm' 21. RE: RE: Classics or no classics From: 'Jim Moore' 22. Re: Okefenokee question, cost. From: Vic Rek 23. RE: RE: Classics or no classics From: 'tom george' 24. Soundmill Navigator - what is it? From: 'kayleigh' 25. RE: RE: Classics or no classics From: Gabe Yedid ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:27:06 CDT From: 'Feldon Feldon' Subject: Re: Never remix anything? egads, it's that Tangentizing thread again! >>_Poland_ underwent the editing knife, too. >Poland underwent the editing knife because of >#1 power outages during the concert, >#2 the shortness of sides (22 minutes) on a vinyl LP. Ad #1 - Only during the afternoon Warsaw performance. The second evening concert was not affected by power outage. Regards Michael From: peter.stoeferle@t... Date: Wed Dec 31, 1969 10:59 pm Subject: Mars Polaris Mispressings Hi die-hard collectors, > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:50:13 -0700 > From: 'Greg' > Subject: Different Version of Mars Polaris > > from: http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html > > '- Different version of Mars Polaris > > Shortly before the initial release of Great Wall of China, a > compilation- CD, featuring a cross- section of the > aforementioned and Mars Polaris, was planned for the purpose of > collectively promoting Tangerine Dream´s > two latest studio efforts. A master was submitted to the > manufacturing plant and a glas master was made, yet > the effort was then cancelled in favor of a compilation project > that would provide a larger overview of TDI´s releases, which we > deemed more efficient. Contrary to our > orders, the glas master for this cross- section was not > destroyed. It was then accidentally confused with the > original master for > Mars Polaris for one manufacturing run by the pressing plant. Did anybody out there come accross such a CD? Could you please tell the matrix number from the CD body? This could help collectors to check CDs in their local record store and to pick up the mispressed CDs, even if they do not follow TD's purpose: ;-) > We will, of course, replace any copy of the > mispressing immediately for a correct copy and > apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.' --- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21889 SV: Mars Polaris Mispressings Micke Stark Thu 4/13/2000 2 KB From: 'Quichotte' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 3:16 pm Subject: Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') >Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:47:40 -0400 (EDT) >From: Sean Montgomery >Subject: Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') > >But at least these changes were done shortly after the original shows, >with the same equipment, ensuring that the changes made would be in >keeping with the 'sound' of the source material. Ricochet, Encore, >Logos...yes, all were partially created in studio but they still sound >Iike the material played at the shows (even Pergamon, which was doctored >6 years after the show it captures, still sounds like 1980). The same can >not be said about Sohoman or, it seems, SN. Pergamon is a re-release (Virgin bought the rights) of Amiga's 'Quichotte' which was released in 1981 only few month after the show. Regards Michael From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 3:48 pm Subject: test - please ignore Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 27735 test - please ignore Owens, James Tue 7/17/2001 2 KB 36662 test - please ignore tangram80 tangram80 Tue 10/15/2002 2 KB From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 4:22 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Mars Polaris Mispressings talk about a collectors item! will these be even rarer than The Keep was? joe > -----Original Message----- > From: peter.stoeferle@t... [mailto:peter.stoeferle@t...] ... > Hi die-hard collectors, ... > > '- Different version of Mars Polaris ... > > Contrary to our > > orders, the glas master for this cross- section was not > > destroyed. It was then accidentally confused with the > > original master for > > Mars Polaris for one manufacturing run by the > pressing plant. > From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 5:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to attend please reply.. Vic, Do you have good directions for getting to the spot where we're setting up camp? Just in case a member of the caravan gets lost... - jim ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Vic Rek' To: Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 11:24 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to attend please reply.. > This is the last call to join us for a truly wonderful event. > > This event will encompass: > > New EM music performed by Marcel Engels and Dave Brewer. > > A nice gift from TDI... > > A wonderful getaway experience in the wilderness.. which few will ever > experience again... > > Enough said. Call if you wish to join us - just a couple places left. > Cost is $15 per night. If you call me in the next 2 days, you may be > able to join our TD caravan down to the Swamp from Atlanta (so far we > have four cars driving down) Just do it for yourself! Vic (770-643-8292) > > 3 AM is approaching.... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LOW RATE, NO WAIT! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates > as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/954820391/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21694 Re: Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to atte Marcel Engels Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 5:21 pm Subject: Edgar - Dali tangentizing thing > -----Original Message----- > From: teiwaz _ ... > Well we can all be happy that edgar doesn't completely > emulate his mentor Salvador Dali and do the musical > equivalent of signing blank canvases late > in his career to let others do with what they wish. So coincidental you should say that- I was thinking about that (Dali/protegee reference) just the other day when I was mulling over this tangentizing thing. I just rediscovered more of my old tape tree tapes the other day and lo and behold, one of them is a ral treasure, Sydney '82, a.k.a. Sohoman! While listening to it, I can't even IMAGINE why Ed would want to change ANYTHING! So, 1) I was wondering what's going through Ed's head when he decides to retouch older material. Exactly what is the motivation or incentive? What is it about the older material in its original state that makes him want to embellish it (that is, outside of remastering for better sound quality)? 2) Then, I wonder if it is him doing it at all! The TD site says, 'it wasn't pure enjoyment for Edgar to do all the re-mixes and re-recordings...the composing and recording procedure is often comparable to the very painful birth of a baby who doesn't want to leave its mother's womb. Maybe they don't want to recall some of those moments by listening to the compositions again and again'. Maybe (if he still feels this way), AND given the Dali reference, maybe it isn't even Edgar? Certainly, if it is Jerome's handiwork, it is still 'TD'. And I would _assume_ that nothing gets released without Ed's OK, but could it possibly be other person(s)? Is this a completely nutty idea? joe From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') >From: 'Greg' >Reason for Tangentizing: > >1. Fans who have followed the band for many years, who prefer older >material >from the 70's are assumed to have a bit of fan tapes and recordings. Thus, >possibility of said classic concert likeness to be aquired and in >circulation is fairly high. Soundmill Navigator is not for you ONLY if you >will not accept the tangentazions. It is a different take on what you >remember or own yourself already. This is faulty logic. This is an encouragement of the bootleg and fantape trade, basically, 'the only way to get the original concerts is to get them on tape or CD'. >2. Casual fans who only obtain official releases will find Soundmill >Navigator as a good album. Not only do they not care incredibly much where >this music came from, but that it was editted and mixed with cleaner, >higher >fidelity sounds. So anything more than 10 years old should be thrown out because it's on 'out of date' or lo-fi equipment? I don't think you'll find ANYONE on this list or anywhere who agrees with you on this comment. >These people probably would not subscribe to this list, or >call themselves 'fans of TD.' These are the adult comtemporary new age >music >fans which make a wider audience. I could care less what the clueless or ininformed dabbler in electronic music is interested in. >Thus the use of TD music in golf >programming. >You have to remember that TD is making more accesible music.. I thought the idea was that Tangerine Dream should NOT tailor their music to the market but instead be creative on their own terms. remember the >first time you picked up Encore or Rubycon.. or whatever older album after >your first exposure with TD was Melrose? Like me, I practically despised >and >laughed at such albums before I finally sat down and participated with the >music. My first exposure was Turn of the Tides, followed by 220 Volt. When I picked up albums like Phaedra and Force Majeure, I realized that while Turn of the Tides and 220 Volt are decent albums, their older stuff was infinately more creative. It didn't take me any time to fall in love with Logos or Rubycon. >such heady space music re-released in the era of Mars Polaris and >Dream Mixes 2. But no one ever did it like TD, and I think they should be >very proud of their accomplishments for the whole of the modern musical >world. Um, Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 cover ground that other artists have already laid down. Where the old stuff was revolutionary, dance music was well under way when Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 came about. They're not revolutionary in any way. They're decent albums, but hardly anything new. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Szatmari, Pal' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 5:25 pm Subject: Re: Underwater ripp-off I know this is a rather late reply to the thread that was going on a couple of weeks ago on the Underwater sunlight 'ripp-off' of the JMJ tune (Equinox Part 4) but I have my reasons: I am listening to Stratosfear, the track (Tangents rejectors beware: it is the tangentized version hehehe) and I just realised the resemblance of the Stratosfear tune to the Underwater Sunlight tune. Just listen: they are very similar, so although the Underwater Sunlight tune does sound like the one on Equinoxe, it can also be originated from Stratosfear. Regards, Pal. p.s. my comments on SN will come later, when I have received my copy from CDNow. I have only one preliminary comment: Feldon Feldon aka Morgan writes: >>Then let Tangerine Dream join all the other music groups who just stuff anything down our throats because we have no value in the grand scheme of things as consumers. >> Now, we are back at square one: nobody is forcing anyone to buy any product. We DO HAVE value in the grand scheme of things as consumers: we have the right of choice (i.e. to buy or not to buy). From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 5:42 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to attend please reply.. See you at Okefenokee. Unsub for me for now. Marcel From: Joel Mullen Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 7:32 pm Subject: Plate Lunch (are they O.K.?) Hello all- Has anyone ordered recently from Plate Lunch and had either a good *or* bad experience? (they sell Conrad Schnitzler CDs) I ordered 9 CDs 2 months ago. My credit card was billed 4 days later. 3 weeks after I ordered I still had not gotten my discs so I e-mailed him. He said they were mailed right away and that he would check with the post office. 2 weeks later he said the postoffice said they had 'gone missing' and he promised to send off more CDs that same day to me. 2 weeks LATER still no CDs. Another e-mail and he said that the second package had not gone out in the mail due to him moving, but he would send off the package 'tomorrow' Less than a week later he asked if they arrived yet and I said 'no'. Now ANOTHER week later they are still not here. (that is a total of 9 weeks for those of you keeping track at home) I e-mailed him again saying he had one more week to produce the CDs or I wanted my money back. Basically, am I getting screwed here? I have never ordered from them before, but I had heard good things in the past. Or is the post office just getting really bad now or what? I currently have some money that was sent TO me not arrive. Some money I have sent OUT that has not arrived. 2 packages sent TO me that have not arrived, and 1 package I have sent OUT that has not arrived. All are very over-due. Of course I have 5-10 times as much that *does* arrive safely (going both ways) but I have never had such a run of bad luck since I started trading heavy 2 years ago. Dammit! Regards, Joel From: Joel Mullen Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 7:43 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Analog tape degradation On Wednesday, April 05, 2000 2:03 AM, Jens Kilian [SMTP:Jens_Kilian@a...] wrote: > > From: Glenn Reinicke > > Subject: Soundmill Navigator noise > [...] > > FYI: there used to be a great article on the Wendy Carlos website which > > dealt with the decomposition of analog master tapes. She actually had to > > bake some of her old tapes in an oven to remove the moisture before getting > > being able to remaster. I get the feeling that a lot of older recordings of > > any band recorded to analog tape is likely to be problematic. > > All the more reason to get the old media converted to digital ASAP. > (And released on CD, of course :-) > > Jens. And who would know better about ~converting old media~ than Walter, errrrrr..... *Wendy* ..... Carlos? ;-D Joel Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21697 Re: Analog tape degradation Craig Chambers Wed 4/5/2000 2 KB From: 'Craig Chambers' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 7:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Analog tape degradation > > And who would know better about ~converting old media~ than > Walter, errrrrr..... *Wendy* ..... Carlos? ;-D > Ouch!!! BTW, I have an original issue of the 'Clockwork Orange' soundtrack LP by, 'Mr.' Carlos...anybody know if it is worth anything? Craig NP: Floyd 1.27.77 From: 'Herod, Galen (NBC)' Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 7:48 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Plate Lunch (are they O.K.?) Hi Joel, I ordered from them and got my stuff quickly. I don't think they're ripping you off. They're totally honest. They just may not be hardworking businessmen. So he probably delayed three weeks in packing your order, and then they did get lost. You can trust them, but stay on them. The guy who runs the american outlet is just an artist like us you know. I just know I'm horrible about timely mailing and stuff. Like I said stay on them for THEIR own good. Galen > ---------- > From: Joel Mullen > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2000 12:32 PM > To: 'tadream@egroups.com' > Subject: [tadream] Plate Lunch (are they O.K.?) > > Hello all- > Has anyone ordered recently from Plate Lunch and > had either a good *or* bad experience? (they sell Conrad Schnitzler > CDs) I ordered 9 CDs 2 months ago. My credit card was billed > 4 days later. 3 weeks after I ordered I still had not gotten my discs > so I e-mailed him. He said they were mailed right away and that > he would check with the post office. 2 weeks later he said the > postoffice said they had 'gone missing' and he promised to send > off more CDs that same day to me. 2 weeks LATER still no CDs. > Another e-mail and he said that the second package had not gone > out in the mail due to him moving, but he would send off the package > 'tomorrow' Less than a week later he asked if they arrived yet and I > said 'no'. Now ANOTHER week later they are still not here. (that is > a total of 9 weeks for those of you keeping track at home) I e-mailed > him again saying he had one more week to produce the CDs or I wanted > my money back. > > Basically, am I getting screwed here? I have never ordered from > them before, but I had heard good things in the past. Or is the post > office just > getting really bad now or what? I currently have some money that was sent > TO me not arrive. Some money I have sent OUT that has not arrived. 2 > packages sent TO me that have not arrived, and 1 package I have sent OUT > that has not arrived. All are very over-due. Of course I have 5-10 times > as much > that *does* arrive safely (going both ways) but I have never had such a > run > of bad luck since I started trading heavy 2 years ago. > > Dammit! > > Regards, > > Joel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LOW RATE, NO WAIT! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates > as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Learn more at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/937/3/_/24785/_/954963166/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the integrity of this communication cannot be guaranteed. From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 1:17 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee TD Trip Vic, Unfortunately I must go to Vegas on Sunday night for my industry's largest tradeshow NAB (National Association of Broadcasters), which will be through Thursday. When are you guys coming back?? Craig > Hi Craig, > > I hope you can reconsider. Call me at 770-643-8292 for more details - > it will be great! > > Vic > > C Chambers wrote: > > > > From: 'C Chambers' > > > > Vic, > > > > Hi, sorry to be so unsure at this point, but I just started a new job on > > Weds. and it may be difficult to commit yet. I definitely want to attend, > > but I have to wait closer to the date to know for sure. If I am able to > > attend, I can always make accomodations for myself (tent, car, etc...) > > > > Again, I appreciate you organizing all of this but it is just difficult to > > commit with so much going on in my work situation. > > > > Craig > > > > > From: Vic Rek > > > > > > Hi TD fans! > > > > > > So far we have about 11 people that will most likely attend the TD > > > Okefenokee Swap gig. I also have about 5 that are still not sure. > > > > > > We have room for up to 16 so please respond soon. We can find more room > > > if necessary though. > > > > > > This is what I have sent to the ones that are interested: > > > > > > > Please confirm if you plan to attend so I can come up with a list. > > > > The Swamp gig is from Sunday April 9th to 12/13th. > > > > > > > > I will also have for sale from TDI 'Tango-go' - 15 copies (we'll be the > > > > first ones to have them) and 5 copies of 'Soundmill Navigator' - first > > > > come first serve. I'll sell them at my cost of $18. Also, bring an > > > > extra TD item for the drawings that we'll have. We'll I'm looking > > > > forward to it - should be fun. We'll also have some original music too! > > > > > > > > Oh, remember that the gates to the park close at 7PM. So you must be in > > > > by then. > > > > > > > > Call or e-mail me if you have questions: > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > > > Apply NOW! > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/953420984/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > > > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > > Apply NOW! > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/953432165/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/954815545/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > From: Vic Rek Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 1:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee List Hi James, Please call to confirm at 770-643-8292. We are leaving for the Swamp at 10AM April 9th from Atlanta. Vic From: 'kayleigh' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 3:02 am Subject: Is it wrong to perform material from a band you were in? Hey there all. Just wanted to post a comment about what I'd read about Chris Franke. WHO is he? Might sound stupid, but from reading, did he have something to do with TD in the past (as in the 86 tour that someone posted about). The reason I'M asking is a friend of mine sent me some material of his, and it sounded GREAT (just some snippets of songs, and said 'buy this stuff' and gave me some ideas on WHERE to get it. So thought I'd ask here. Also wanted to make a comment about what was posted about other band members performing material from their regular (or full-time bands) as in Jon Anderson, Steve Howe, Fish (he's a BIG one for performing Marillion material). I'd like to ask what's wrong with it? I LOVE Waters solo material, but could not imagine seeing him live without some Floyd performed in it (i've seen him live, and he is awesome), AND the same can be said about Floyd. Can't imagine them NOT performing Waters era material. Just no way possible it'd make it an enjoyable show I think. Just curious about what I'd read in the past about various lineups with tD? Does this mean that if there is a 'new' guy performing with the band, or it isn't the 'original' they won't perform material from a different era? Reason I'm asking is that obviously with Genesis. Phil Collins later down the line seemed to cut out almost all of the Gabriel era stuff from their setlist, AND with Ray Wilson (Unfortunately only one GREAT album and a minimal tour), he was performing material from EVERY era. Why is it wrong? Just figured the artists are happy to brag about their 'other' careers ya know? dan Kayleigh's Playhouse! http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! ICQ# 1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21703 Re: who is chris franke? (was: RE: Is it wrong joe shoults Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB From: 'Jared White' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 3:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') --- In tadream@egroups.com, 'Feldon Feldon' wrote: > >From: 'Greg' > >2. Casual fans who only obtain official releases will find Soundmill > >Navigator as a good album. Not only do they not care incredibly much where > >this music came from, but that it was editted and mixed with cleaner, > >higher > >fidelity sounds. > > So anything more than 10 years old should be thrown out because it's on 'out > of date' or lo-fi equipment? I don't think you'll find ANYONE on this list > or anywhere who agrees with you on this comment. Wrong. (In fact, you didn't even understand his comment in the first place.) > >These people probably would not subscribe to this list, or > >call themselves 'fans of TD.' These are the adult comtemporary new age > >music > >fans which make a wider audience. > > I could care less what the clueless or ininformed dabbler in electronic > music is interested in. Hmm, I could say the same thing about me and you. > >such heady space music re-released in the era of Mars Polaris and > >Dream Mixes 2. But no one ever did it like TD, and I think they should be > >very proud of their accomplishments for the whole of the modern musical > >world. > > Um, Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 cover ground that other artists have > already laid down. Where the old stuff was revolutionary, dance music was > well under way when Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 came about. They're not > revolutionary in any way. They're decent albums, but hardly anything new. Wrong again. Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 are *NOT* dance music. Therefore, they can't be compared to dance music. From what I've heard so far, most of the 'electronica/dance' genre has yet to produce anything even remotely resembling music of classical proportions. Tangerine Dream is on an entirely different level. You know, it appears that you're one of those people who always posts negative messages. Are you purposely trying to get people riled up, or are you just a grump? Jared P. S. FYI, it might be a good idea to spell check your e-mail before you send it next time. From: 'joe shoults' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 2:31 am Subject: re: who is chris franke? (was: RE: Is it wrong ...) > -----Original Message----- > From: kayleigh [mailto:kayleigh@m...] ... > Hey there all. Just wanted to post a comment about what I'd read > about Chris > Franke. WHO is he? Might sound stupid, but from reading, did he have LOL!! No, your question is not stupid. It just sounds like you need to learn a little history of the band. you can find a good history on the TD website (www.tadream.com), telling who came into TD and left at what points. I'm not going to point you directly to the specific page; you will benefit from having to find it for yourself! ;-) > about). The reason I'M asking is a friend of mine sent me some material of > his, and it sounded GREAT (just some snippets of songs, and said 'buy this > stuff' and gave me some ideas on WHERE to get it. So thought I'd ask here. on www.tadream.net, click on the 'Listen!' link, and you can listen to some of Chris Franke's albums in RealAudio format. There's a link to his website (rather his portion of his label's) in the 'Links' section. -joe From: 'Greg' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:11 am Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') > --- In tadream@egroups.com, 'Feldon Feldon' wrote: > > > >From: 'Greg' > > > > >2. Casual fans who only obtain official releases will find Soundmill > > >Navigator as a good album. Not only do they not care incredibly much > where > > >this music came from, but that it was editted and mixed with cleaner, > > >higher > > >fidelity sounds. > > > > So anything more than 10 years old should be thrown out because it's on > 'out > > of date' or lo-fi equipment? I don't think you'll find ANYONE on this list > > or anywhere who agrees with you on this comment. I am assuming that such work is the artist's decision. The idea to tangentize is to make it what the artist wants, right? The TDI series of music is done in a fashion that fits a bit better in the period that TD is in now. And it is reworked technically and compositionally as well. But I think the issue here is with the decisions of the artist, mixed with many other issues like recond compony rights, previously released material, and original tape and sound quality. As many of you would hate to hear this, but.. I think it's about being progressive rather than regressive. > > > >These people probably would not subscribe to this list, or > > >call themselves 'fans of TD.' These are the adult comtemporary new age > > >music > > >fans which make a wider audience. > > > > I could care less what the clueless or ininformed dabbler in electronic > > music is interested in. I think TD could care less about what fans think of what they do. > > > >such heady space music re-released in the era of Mars Polaris and > > >Dream Mixes 2. But no one ever did it like TD, and I think they should be > > >very proud of their accomplishments for the whole of the modern musical > > >world. > > > > Um, Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 cover ground that other artists have > > already laid down. Where the old stuff was revolutionary, dance music was > > well under way when Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 came about. They're not > > revolutionary in any way. They're decent albums, but hardly anything new. My comment above about proud accomplishments was towards 70's TD.. as they were a great influence in the moden musical world. Today, I still believe they make great music that stands higher above much of what is out there. But remember: it isn't TD or else! Listen to other artists and enjoy their music. Greg H. From: Chris Richards Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:03 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 450 <> I agree about Waters, but when I saw him in concert last summer, the entire first set of the show was Floyd material, as was around half of the second set and all of the encores. Out of a 2 and a half hour show, about only a half hour was his solo material. Granted, the most recent material played was from 93 (apart from the new song he played in Kansas City, I believe it was). I think he would have done better to make more of a 50/50 kinda thing (he could have cut out some of the songs from The Wall and Dark Side Of The Moon, for instance, to make room for more from Radio Kaos and Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking), and he should have also distributed the solo material throughout the show, not playing Floyd songs for the first 2/3's or whatever it was of the show, THEN hitting once with 45 minutes SOLID of solo material. A better idea would have been to do a couple Floyd things, then something from, say, Pros And Cons, then a couple more Floyd, then a couple from Radio Kaos, etc. <> That probably has more to do with the interest of playing more recent material, and to 'put to rest' songs the band is 'tired of playing'. You have to remember that a lot of the Gabriel-era stuff was rather long. I can't give you exact lengths, but Supper's Ready is like 24 minutes, The Cinema Show is around 12, The Musical Box around 10 minutes, etc. To perform just those three songs would take aprox. 3/4's of an hour, during which time they could play their entire new album, which the band is probably way more excited about doing. Of course, once they started having bona-fide 'hits', they were 'obligated' to play those for the fans who made them a profitable arena filling band, so obviously, there's a Genesis set list started becoming weighted more towards stuff like Follow You Follow Me and Turn It On Again, while the Gabriel era stuff was mostly relegated to the medley they'd played on each tour, starting with the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway/The Musical Box deal they played, I believe, on the Wind And Wuthering tour (did they have a medley they did before that one? From the live tapes I have, that seems to be the earliest medley). NP: Blue Öyster Cult 'Maserati GT (I Ain't Got You)' (On Your Feet Or On Your Knees) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21706 Re: Digest Number 450 Chris Richards Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB From: Chris Richards Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 450 <> Craig, is that the one put out by Warner Brothers (which has just the music that was actually used in the movie, plus stuff like Singing In The Rain and the orchestral tracks that were used in the movie) or the CBS one (which consists just of the music Wendy/Walter composed, including the complete Timesteps and stuff that didn't make into the film, like Country Lane). I own both, and I also have the ESD reissue that came out a couple years ago. <> Which show is that? I think the earliest Floyd tape I have from that tour is the Wish You Were Here set from the Paris concert. I thought I heard somewhere that a tape has surfaced of part of the opening night in Frankfurt, I think, which I THINK was on the 27th! Is that the one you have there? NP: Blue Öyster Cult 'Born To Be Wild' (On Your Feet Or On Your Knees) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Radu Velicescu Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:11 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator noise This is all very nice, a good explanation of a CD by TDI. Still, this raises yet another issue: On the FM tape the concert lasts about 31 minutes, from applause to applause. Yet the 'noise loop' starts on SN at minute 3 and lasts for the entire CD, it lasts for 38 minutes. If this 'noise loop' was part of the original analog tape, where did the extra 7 minutes of the 'noise loop' come from? noise loop 38 min. <> concert 31 min. Sorry to stir up the stilt, just doing some math... Besides, the FM tape mastered on CD has better sound quality than SN on the vintage parts - and no 'noise loop'. SN has a soft vintage mix and a soft tangetized mix, too bad that 'noise loop' is there. Also, has the city name where this was performed omitted with a reason? I cannot find 'Berlin' anywhere on/in SN... Radu np-Berlin Philharmonics FM recording & Soundmill Navigator > Well, I decided to ask the good people at TDI what the problem is with SN > and they kindly responded. I for one am pleased that TDI is releasing old > stuff and will definitely support them, even if it is tangentized and has > some defects. I'd rather have a slightly less than perfect release than have > Edgar shelve the project over imperfections, which he could have easily > done. If we want to see more of these releases in the future, maybe we > should email our support to TDI rather than rail against them (yet again!). > > FYI: there used to be a great article on the Wendy Carlos website which > dealt with the decomposition of analog master tapes. She actually had to > bake some of her old tapes in an oven to remove the moisture before getting > being able to remaster. I get the feeling that a lot of older recordings of > any band recorded to analog tape is likely to be problematic. > > [From TDI] > > > Glenn, > > > > it is not a manufacturing flaw and not a mastering error, either. The > > subtle noise loop comes straight from the old original master tapes and > > could not be removed without severely cutting into the material. It is > > partly the result of tape- wear- out (which is normal in analog tapes that > > are stored for 24 years) and also partly a noise emanating during the > > concert itself resulting from the analog tape echo- units that were used > > as > > FX for the synths, hence the repetitive nature of the sound. > > > > Hope this is informative... > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > TDI Music Support From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 7:36 am Subject: Re: Getting OT a bit...but I had to > he should have also distributed the solo material > throughout the show, not playing Floyd songs for > the first 2/3's or whatever it was of the show, > THEN hitting once with 45 minutes SOLID of solo > material. A better idea would have been to do a > couple Floyd things, then something from, say, > Pros And Cons, then a couple more Floyd, then a > couple from Radio Kaos, etc. No, I disagree! I think that he did the Floyd pieces together for a very good reason. He stated that he did not really have a concept associated with this tour, so he made the music itself the concept...i.e., he played the albums in a cohesive manner as if he were playing during the respective tours. He played the first LP side of the Wall (what a damn opener!), threw in some Final Cut (for the purists) then into the Animals set with Dogs (man, what a performance...never thought I would see that one live!) then into the Wish You Were Here set, where he played almost the whole album. The second set opened with the faint sounds of a heartbeat which culminated into a thundering climax of Speak to Me where he launched into the Dark Side set, losing only Great Gig and On the Run from the first side and a half...then the solo stuff, the obligatory one from Pros and Cons and one from KAOS, then the Amused set...and what a damn set it was! (BTW, he is supposedly adding 'Bravery of Being out of Range' this go round)...then after the audience caught their breath (literally), he finished off the Dark Side with Brain Damage/Eclipse then capped it with an encore of 'Comfortably Numb'... So I think he gave us these peeks at the past glories by playing these songs together as they were originally meant to be played. And I loved every minute of it. Of course I would have liked to see AtD layed entirely through with bits of Floydia sprinkled in at the right places for continuity sake (ala, the KAOS tour...GREATEST damn show I have ever seen!). Anyway, I thought it was rather awesome and can't wait to see more. BTW, Roger has pretty much come out and stated publicly that he is pro taper! So roll 'em guys! I am going to Nashville, Tampa and maybe New Orleans if there are any traders out there. From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 7:44 am Subject: Clockwork Orange > < > Orange' soundtrack LP by, 'Mr.' Carlos...anybody > know if it is worth anything?>> > > Craig, is that the one put out by Warner Brothers > (which has just the music that was actually used > in the movie, plus stuff like Singing In The Rain > and the orchestral tracks that were used in the > movie) or the CBS one (which consists just of the > music Wendy/Walter composed, including the > complete Timesteps and stuff that didn't make > into the film, like Country Lane). I think it is the former, without going and digging it out. It is the one with the 'morphed-up' Singing in the Rain, and NOT the one that I have seen with the white label and the Clockwork Orange logo... > <> > > Which show is that? I think the earliest Floyd > tape I have from that tour is the Wish You Were > Here set from the Paris concert. I thought I > heard somewhere that a tape has surfaced of part > of the opening night in Frankfurt, I think, which > I THINK was on the 27th! Is that the one you have > there? Frankfurt is correct...opening night was on the 23rd in Dortmund. And yes, there are tapes of both as well as complete audience tapes from Paris. The WYWH set you mentioned should be a sbd. There is also a nice one floating around from 2/1 Austria...email me if you want to discuss, as anyone here who knows me can vouch, I am always up for a good Floyd discussion. From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:59 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Okefenokee Details - Those that plan to attend please reply.. Ok...you convinced me....I'll get my tickets tonight! > > This is the last call to join us for a truly wonderful event. > > This event will encompass: > > New EM music performed by Marcel Engels and Dave Brewer. > > A nice gift from TDI... > > A wonderful getaway experience in the wilderness.. which few will ever > experience again... > > Enough said. Call if you wish to join us - just a couple places left. > Cost is $15 per night. If you call me in the next 2 days, you may be > able to join our TD caravan down to the Swamp from Atlanta (so far we > have four cars driving down) Just do it for yourself! Vic (770-643-8292) > > 3 AM is approaching.... > > > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: Chris Richards Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 5:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 449 < Does anyone on the 'let's bash Edgar' commitee > recall the title of Christoph's first post TD > release?>> Dude, I most definitely NOT ask that question!!! I quoted someone else post, which you in turn quoted! Yahoo doesn't seem to have any kind of quoting options outside of the good old cut and paste. :-P Oh well. NP: Orion The Hunter 'Dreamin'' (their first and only album) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: 'Simon Slator' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 9:29 am Subject: Questionnaire Hi there. Been a long time since I last posted (to remain on-topic, I'd just like to say TaDream's 'Exit' totally kicks ass). I've just posted a questionnaire to my website to help me gauge tastes in electronic music and attitudes towards online CD purchasing - mainly so I can see how best to create and market my own music. The questionnaire has only 5 quick questions and is completely anonymous (so you won't be spammed by some smelly, cheap-and-nasty organization in Taiwan) so, please take a minute or so to fill it in. It will be most appreciated. You can find it at http://pages.zoom.co.uk/simon.slator/questionnaire.html Thanks Simon Slator. ============== Simon Slator Website: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/simon.slator Download my own music at: http://www.mp3.com/simonslatorproject [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21748 Re: Questionnaire Simon Slator Fri 4/7/2000 3 KB From: Nigbur D Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 11:33 am Subject: RE: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') > ---------- > From: Feldon Feldon[SMTP:feldon23@h...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 05 April 2000 18:24 > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme > chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') > > Um, Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 cover ground that other artists have > already laid down. Where the old stuff was revolutionary, dance music was > well under way when Mars Polaris and Dream Mixes 2 came about. They're not > > revolutionary in any way. They're decent albums, but hardly anything new. > I agree with you on the creativity aspect, but I'm not sure I'd classify Mars Polaris as dance music. Yes, it does have its catchy elements to it, but that doesn't make it any more dance music than, say, White Eagle or Le Parc. While MP might not have been revolutionary, I found it very refreshing and sufficiently detached from mainstream dance music. Also, who says that the 70s and 80s albums weren't influenced by popular music to an extent? Listening to TD chronologically, I get the impression that they always incorporated some elements of the contemporary mainstream, while remaining unique in their approach and eclectic in their choice of contemporary influences. Just my thoughts. Dennis From: Nigbur D Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 11:35 am Subject: RE: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') Um, let's try not to get personal, shall we? Dennis > ---------- > From: Jared White[SMTP:jwhite@s...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 06 April 2000 04:04 > To: tadream > Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme > chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') > > You know, it appears that you're one of those people who always posts > negative messages. Are you purposely trying to get people riled up, or are > you just a grump? > > Jared > > P. S. FYI, it might be a good idea to spell check your e-mail before you > send it next time. > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21725 Bad Attitudes Running Rampant Jared White Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB From: Nigbur D Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 11:37 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Cope I'm sorry Glynn, I might have taken your choice of words too literally. I apologise if I was speaking out of turn. Thanks for the tip about CD Services Dundee - have they got a catalogue web page or something of the sort? Dennis > ---------- > From: > Glynn.Naughton@a...[SMTP:Glynn.Naughton@a...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 04 April 2000 15:25 > To: tadream@o... > Subject: [tadream] Cope > > I think you took what was intended as a rather light-hearted concert > review > a bit too much to heart. By 'Copian bollocks' I simply meant that I would > rather the event had been a straight-on Klaus Schulze concert, without all > the other stuff attached. Maybe that shows From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 11:50 am Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tang... In a message dated 4/6/2000 11:35:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!, D.Nigbur@r... writes: << > You know, it appears that you're one of those people who always posts > negative messages. Are you purposely trying to get people riled up, or are > you just a grump? > > Jared >> *The irony is amazing. Poly Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21719 Re: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la me craig.cordrey@g... Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB From: Nigbur D Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 11:51 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Franke - was: Is it wrong to perform material from a band you were in? Given that this is a TD mailing list, I assume no one normally sees the need to explain who Chris Franke is. Well, he was a member of TD from the early seventies until the late eighties, forming the 'nucleus' of the band together with Edgar, and seeing Baumann, Joliffe, Krieger and Schmoelling come and go. He also played together with Froese and Haslinger until 1987, when he left (apparently not on entirely good terms with Edgar). On stage, he was known as the guy in the centre (with Froese to the left of the stage and the third member on the right), in front of an enormous wall of electronic gear. Having started out as a drummer with an interest in electronics, he was responsible for a large part of the rhythmic structure of TD music, including those famous analogue sequences. While this doesn't mean that the other members had no input into the sequences and rhythms - they did manage to continue without him, after all - he has been perceived as the one with effective cotrol over the sequencer work, especially on stage. After leaving TD, he took a long break before going solo with a very quiet, melodic album called 'Pacific Coast Highway' and a concert in London. Since then, he has done huge amounts of soundtrack work in Los Angeles. Musically, he is trying to integrate electronic and orchestral elements (much like Schulze with 'Irrlicht', but in a more melodic and Hollywood-friendly way), notably in his excellent (although opinnions diverge on this one) soundtracks for Babylon 5. Hope this helps - there is a Franke homepage at sonicimages.com, if you're interested. Dennis > ---------- > From: kayleigh[SMTP:kayleigh@m...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 06 April 2000 04:02 > To: Tangerine Dream List > Subject: [tadream] Is it wrong to perform material from a band you > were in? > > Hey there all. Just wanted to post a comment about what I'd read about > Chris > Franke. WHO is he? Might sound stupid, but from reading, did he have > something to do with TD in the past (as in the 86 tour that someone posted > about). The reason I'M asking is a friend From: Nigbur D Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 11:57 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Questionnaire Just filled it in. The first question really threw me though. I think the reason why we're all on this list is because TD music has ALL those qualities - ambience, drive, energy, and innovation. Don't try to model yourself on anyone, including TD - just do your own thing and see what people think. Dennis > ---------- > From: Simon Slator[SMTP:in6471@w...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 06 April 2000 10:29 > To: tadream > Subject: [tadream] Questionnaire > > Hi there. Been a long time since I last posted (to remain on-topic, I'd > just like to say TaDream's 'Exit' totally kicks ass). > > I've just posted a questionnaire to my website to help me gauge tastes in > electronic music and attitudes towards online CD purchasing - mainly so I > can see how best to create and market my own music. > > The questionnaire has only 5 quick questions and is completely anonymous > (so you won't be spammed by some smelly, cheap-and-nasty organization in > Taiwan) so, please take a minute or so to fill it in. It will be most > appreciated. > > You can find it at http://pages.zoom.co.uk/simon.slator/questionnaire.html > > Thanks > > Simon Slator. > > ============== > Simon Slator > Website: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/simon.slator > Download my own music at: http://www.mp3.com/simonslatorproject > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21720 Re: Questionnaire craig.cordrey@g... Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 1:44 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chos e (RE:'Tang... >In a message dated 4/6/2000 11:35:39 AM !!!First Boot!!!, >D.Nigbur@r... writes: > ><< > You know, it appears that you're one of those people who always posts > > negative messages. Are you purposely trying to get people riled up, or are > > you just a grump? > > > > Jared >> > >*The irony is amazing. >Poly Hahaha, ROTFL. Maybe someone should ask Ed not to release any more 'Classic' concerts - we always end up arguing over them. -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: craig.cordrey@g... Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 1:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Questionnaire >Just filled it in. The first question really threw me though. I think the >reason why we're all on this list is because TD music has ALL those >qualities - ambience, drive, energy, and innovation. Don't try to model >yourself on anyone, including TD - just do your own thing and see what >people think. > >Dennis Hey Dennis, You got a new job or on holiday or something? Nothing from Nigbur D. for seemingly ages and then this flurry of activity the past couple of weeks. Not that I'm complaining - always good to read your level-headed comments, particularly in these troubled times ... NP : Syndromeda - Huizen 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------- Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... crjc@t... Senior Systems Engineer Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division Donibristle, Fife, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nigbur D Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 1:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] OT: My new (?) job - was: Questionnaire Hehe, that's a good one... I haven't got a new job, but I'm researching at the moment and waiting for interview participants. Interviews are scheduled to last a maximum of 2 hours, and only about 50% of respondents have actually turned up so far...therefore, in between conducting interviews and marking undergraduate essays, there's loads of dead time to be spent surfing the net for free or contributing to the list, which I've done too rarely recently. Thanks for the compliment - it's much appreciated. Dennis > ---------- > From: craig.cordrey@g... [SMTP:craig.cordrey@g...] > Reply To: tadream@egroups.com > Sent: 06 April 2000 14:48 > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] Questionnaire > > > Hey Dennis, > > You got a new job or on holiday or something? Nothing from Nigbur D. for > seemingly ages and then this flurry of activity the past couple of weeks. > Not > that I'm complaining - always good to read your level-headed comments, > particularly in these troubled times ... > > NP : Syndromeda - Huizen 1998 > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Craig R. J. Cordrey craig.cordrey@g... > crjc@t... > Senior Systems Engineer > Tel : +44 (0) 1383 828187 > Alenia Marconi Systems, Integrated Systems Division > Donibristle, Fife, Scotland > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _____ > > > > _____ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: Chris Richards Date: Wed Apr 5, 2000 7:02 am Subject: Re: Tangentisation I basically think this is the crux of the whole issue, at least from my point of view: the whole reason for releasing an archival thing like Soundmill Navigator or Sohoman is to compete with the bootleggers. I think any artist who puts out such releases should be aware that it's not gonna be something that's gonna have the same kind of wide appeal that a regular 'new release' has. Stuff like Soundmill Navigator really is meant for the diehard fans, to give them a high quality (and officially sactioned) alternative to bootlegs. I think by overdubbing new material, especially when it's done 20 some odd years after the fact (as is the case with SN). Now, it was arguing that we don't care about editing and overdubbing on the 'original live albums' (ie Encore, Ricochet, etc). Well, I decided to get these albums out and see how the material is presented to the buyer at the store. In virtually all cases, the album is presented on the cover as a live album, with no explanation of there being any overdubbing. And why not? Nobody else ever says they've overdubbed on their live album, why should TD be any different. Now, the question is, why does a band do a live recording in the first place? Well, there's lot of reasons. You can say, for instance, that the band is releasing a live album to give itself a little breathing room before going into the studio for the next studio release. Or you could say the band wanted to 'present to the audience a recording of what we sound like onstage, in case you've never seen us' (or alternately, 'if you have seen us, here's a little souvenier of the experience'). Or you could say they just wanted to sum the last couple (or few years) of the group's career and close the book on that chapter of the band and move on to something new. Or there's simply 'We went on the road, played a bunch of new stuff, so here it is for you to enjoy at home' thing. With TD, I think most of the live releases into either of those last two or three things. Things like Ricochet seem to be a 'summing up' of the past, but also more a presenting what the band sounds like onstage, as well as 'presenting some new music you've never herad before'. Encore is the 'summing up and closing the book on this chapter of the career' because it was the last album with Peter. Pergamon, Logos and Poland seem to be mainly the 'Here's some new stuff we played on our last tour' (though the Pergamon performance was more or less 6 years old when it was released). Now, in all of those instances (except Pergamon) the band was presenting something that was essentially new, and maybe the opportunity to make it a 'step forward, musically' gave rise to the decision to do things like Coldwater Canyon, which don't seem to actually have any correlation to any piece that was actually played at the concerts the album is reputedly drawn from. Now, a relase like Sohoman or Soundmill Navigator is different. The Sohoman performancewas 17 years old when it was made available, while the SN performance is now 24 years old (give or take a few months). As said before, there can't be much reason to present this music to the audience, as it's so old, it can't be said to anyway represent 'What we're doing right now' or 'What we did on our last tour' or even 'Here's our way of summing up what we've done for the last 5 years'. The real reason to release something like is 'for the fans'. And as stated before, maybe there's a small portion of the fans who are REALLY interested in this kinda stuff, and really the point is to exploit the fanatical interest of said afficiandos. I know 'exploit' sounds like a dirty word, but that's exactly what bootleggers do, and at least in my mind, the only purpose for releasing something like SN is to compete with bootleggers. Hence, we're being 'exploited'. Thing is, there's good exploitation, and bad exploitation. Good exploitation is what folks like King Crimson, The Grateful Dead, and even Rush (who included a bonus disc recorded in the mid 70's on their last live album), which is to say they've made recordings available untouched. That's not what TD have done. Saying 'We're getting ready to release a performance from 1976' then putting out something that obviously has been worked on recently is not the same thing. I think if nothing else, if Edgar is gonna tamper with the archival or vintage recordings he chooses to release, he should at least give us fair warning on the outside of the packaging and fess up on the webpage or anywhere else the 'upcoming vintage releases' are discussed. I'm thinking of something 'Warning: though this was recorded in 1976, Edgar couldn't resist tampering with the tape after we dug it out 9 months ago'. Sorry for the long post! NP: Black Sabbath 'Wicked World' (Live At Last) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21723 Tangentisation Pergamon Thu 4/6/2000 4 KB From: 'Pergamon' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 3:55 pm Subject: Tangentisation Hello all One thought comes to my mind when reading all the threads concerning the 'Tangentisation'. I do not think Edgar Froese chose to tamper with the old recordings, to anoy people or compete with bootleggers. I simply think that when Edgar Froese digs out the old recordings and listen to them, he as a creative mind, can see new possibilities in his old recordings. From my own musical experience I sometimes find myself digging out old material and discover new possibilities in the music, by adding a string, bass, drum or whatever. I plainly thinks that is what Edgar has done. I mean, he has been on the scene for so many years and has evolved throughout the years, so of course he looks at his own music with different eyes than 20 years ago. Yes my favorite TD-era is late 70' and beginning of the 80', and would dearly love to hear Edgar Froese make an album like the ones we heard from the era. But maybe EF, just thinks 'Hey, I've been there, done that', why should he continue to make music in the same style for 30 years. If you f.ex. look at Jarre, he made the Oxygene 7-13, in my eyes, to prove to himself that he could still do it, and then went on. His new album is in a fashion never heard from Jarre before. Why should he continue to make an Oxygene 3, 4, 5 etc. Just to please us????, No!! as an artist he wants to explore new sides of himself. Exactly the same thing with TD. Yes, I think the sound Td have had throughout the 90' and now in 2K, is mediocre, but not so bad that I stop bying it. I like it because it stiil has that unic sound and because they are brilliant musicians. To put it in Edgar Froeses own words, if you don't like what I am doing now, THEN DON'T BUY IT!!!. I like the things he has done to a lot of the old material. Sometimes he just added a string, and the tune got a hole new atmosphere. Brilliant. Look at the 'Dream Mixes'......a new way of looking at his old material. Edgar Froese is in my eyes still evolving a great deal, and I am convinced that TD will take a new approach in the forthcoming year(s). Jan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Tangentisation >From: Chris Richards > >Now, it was arguing that we don't care about >editing and overdubbing on the 'original live >albums' (ie Encore, Ricochet, etc). Well, I >decided to get these albums out and see how the >material is presented to the buyer at the store. >In virtually all cases, the album is presented on >the cover as a live album, with no explanation of >there being any overdubbing. Exactly. The same reason The Eagles or The Beatles or anyone else doesn't describe their stuff as overdubbed. How CAN it be overdubbed? No 2 TD concerts before 1986 were identical. There were always differences. If anything, the CDs provided essentially the best of the material, and a bit more polish to it. How ANYONE can compare this polishing to playing cheesy strings and fake vocal sounds out of what sounds like a $100 keyboard on top of 15 year old music just boggles my mind. >Now, the question is, why does a band do a live >recording in the first place? I don't want to repeat everything you said about WHY TD releases their 'live' albums but I agree with all of it. >Now, in all of those instances (except Pergamon) >the band was presenting something that was >essentially new, and maybe the opportunity to >make it a 'step forward, musically' gave rise to >the decision to do things like Coldwater Canyon, It still boggles my mind why TD didn't release that 14 minute encore from Pergamon. >Good exploitation is what folks >like King Crimson, The Grateful Dead, and even >Rush (who included a bonus disc recorded in the >mid 70's on their last live album), which is to >say they've made recordings available untouched. >That's not what TD have done. Saying 'We're >getting ready to release a performance from 1976' >then putting out something that obviously has >been worked on recently is not the same thing. > >I think if nothing else, if Edgar is gonna tamper >with the archival or vintage recordings he >chooses to release, he should at least give us >fair warning on the outside of the packaging and >fess up on the webpage or anywhere else the >'upcoming vintage releases' are discussed. I'm >thinking of something 'Warning: though this was >recorded in 1976, Edgar couldn't resist tampering >with the tape after we dug it out 9 months ago'. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Jared White' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 4:48 pm Subject: Bad Attitudes Running Rampant > -----Original Message----- > From: Nigbur D [mailto:D.Nigbur@r...] > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 4:35 AM > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme > chos e (RE:'Tangentizing') > > > Um, let's try not to get personal, shall we? > > Dennis Well, if Morgan's trying to make a point, bad spelling certainly won't help. :) And really, it seems that all he's posted on this list lately have been negative, flammatory remarks. If I'm wrong, please prove me otherwise! Meanwhile, I find it interesting that *I'M* the bad guy when I point out the bad attitude of someone else. If you don't like the 'tangentized' classics, don't buy them. It's as easy as that. Why do you all have to get *SO* riled up about some stupid little inconsequential blip in scheme of things? There are *SO* many other things you could be doing in your life than arguing about the same subjects OVER and OVER and OVER again. You could read a book. Listen to Alan Hovhaness' Symphony No. 50 'Mount St. Helens' (just heard it -- *BRILLIANT*). Take a walk in the park. Go to a local cafe and have a coffee or a smoothie. Visit Carol Gerten's wonderful art gallery on the Web at http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com . You know what I'm saying? Step back from the subject at hand and look at yourself. Is there something more important you could be doing? If so, then go do it. You'll feel ever so much better. Regards, Jared P. S. I'm not an Edgar-butt kisser. I'm just a guy who happens to love the music of Tangerine Dream, especially the music from 1988 onwards. My opinions are completely my own. I like what I like. That's all I can say! From: 'Jared White' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 5:57 pm Subject: Out of town for a couple days Hi, folks, I'll be out of town for a couple days, so I won't be able to write until I get back. Hope y'all have a great time while I'm gone! :) Take care, Jared __________________________________________ Jared White E-mail: jwhite@g... GaelDesign: http://www.gaeldesign.com The Digital Fine Art Gallery: http://www.gaeldesign.com/gallery Distant Oaks (Celtic Music Ensemble): http://www.distantoaks.com Personal Site: http://www.sonic.net/~jwhite Try BeOS Today! http://www.be.com From: 'JoE' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 6:53 pm Subject: RE: RE: Okefenokee > Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:05:59 CEST > From: 'Patrik .' >Subject: Re: Okefenokee > > >This sunday, the 9:th of April, Swedish Television Channel 1 will show a >film about Okefenokee, a nature and wildlife series called 'Ett med >naturen'. A funny coincidence, isn´t it? > >Eller vad säger ni Thomas och Olle? > >regards >Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden <> It certainly is! I'm gonna watch it with Stratosfear LOUD in my headphones!! ;-) // Johan, also Stockholm, also Sweden Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32133 Okefenokee PERGAMON Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB 32147 Re: Okefenokee mengels@w... Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB 32149 Re: Okefenokee PERGAMON Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB From: 'David Foster' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 9:05 pm Subject: K Schulze / Ash Ra Temple I have heard old live stuff were KS has played with Manuel Gotschiing but not As Ra. Can someone please tell me what is the difference between Ash Ra playing live and KS playing live with MG? David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'David Foster' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 8:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator > In a recent interview on the Berlin radio show 'Elektrobeats' Edgar planned > to maybe release the Avery Fisher Hall Concert (05.04.1977) and the Reims > Cathedral (23.09.1975) concert. Note the word 'planned', this was no > definitive statement and not official. > > Heiko > Perhaps we can help by telling TDI what live recordings we the fans would like released? Let's have a poll. State no more than 5 particular live shows. May be someone can keep a count of the most popular. Look forward to seeing what you want. David > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/954829446/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21731 Re: Soundmill Navigator Joe Shoults Thu 4/6/2000 2 KB 21732 Re: Soundmill Navigator Gabe Yedid Thu 4/6/2000 3 KB 21777 Re: Soundmill Navigator aoutland@a... Sat 4/8/2000 2 KB 21778 Re: Soundmill Navigator Gabe Yedid Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB 21779 Re: Soundmill Navigator tom807@a... Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB 21834 Re: Soundmill Navigator Jim Moore Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21835 Re: Soundmill Navigator Jim Moore Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21836 Re: Soundmill Navigator Owens, James E Tue 4/11/2000 3 KB 21837 Re: Soundmill Navigator Owens, James E Tue 4/11/2000 3 KB From: Bennett Cookson Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 9:49 pm Subject: live recordings poll I want to hear a concert from Underwater Sunlight era. I hear there is a great live version of Ride on the Ray :) -- Bennett NP: Somnambulistic Imagery [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 10:08 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator good Idea! let's make a list. we can do a 'poll' for up to 25 shows: my votes: Rheims Cathedral '75 Montreal '77 or Avery Fisher Hall '77 Cleveland '86 > -----Original Message----- .. > Perhaps we can help by telling TDI what live recordings we > the fans would > like released? Let's have a poll. State no more than 5 > particular live > shows. May be someone can keep a count of the most popular. > From: Gabe Yedid Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 10:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, David Foster wrote: > Perhaps we can help by telling TDI what live recordings we the fans would > like released? Let's have a poll. State no more than 5 particular live > shows. May be someone can keep a count of the most popular. That's not going to stop Edgar from altering them in ways we might not find so palatable. ;) but what the hell: 1) Place des Arts, Montreal 1977 (only what's not similar to _Encore_) 2) Brussels Cirque Royale 1980 3) Newcastle City Hall, Fall 1981 (or any decent show from the Fall 1981 UK tour, set 1 only) 4) Paris Olympia 1986 (is this the right venue) 5) Bristol 1990 (yeah, I love _Melrose_) It'd also be nice to get soem stuff from the 1978 tour with Steve Joliffe and Klaus Kruger, but Edgar may well have destroyed THOSE tapes ;-) (I just love the encore from the '78 Hamburg show!) Gabe From: Tomas Rydqvist Date: Thu Apr 6, 2000 11:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: RE: Okefenokee I will see it , just to see what we people here in sweden miss, and i hope that all who will be there in person have a damn good time. Man skulle vilja vara där eller vad säger ni pojkar . Totta JoE wrote: > > Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:05:59 CEST > > From: 'Patrik .' > >Subject: Re: Okefenokee > > > > > >This sunday, the 9:th of April, Swedish Television Channel 1 will show a > >film about Okefenokee, a nature and wildlife series called 'Ett med > >naturen'. A funny coincidence, isn´t it? > > > >Eller vad säger ni Thomas och Olle? > > > >regards > >Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden > <> > > It certainly is! > I'm gonna watch it with Stratosfear LOUD in my headphones!! ;-) > > // Johan, also Stockholm, also Sweden > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/955047329/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net From: 'Ken Mitchell' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 2:58 am Subject: tangentizing RANT MODE ON ! Sorry ! I don't buy this 'the master analogue tapes were damaged' angle. Being a very keen Hendrix fan (sorry If I have bored you all with this before) I regularly see tapes turn up (both on official but more commonly un-official releases) that have been sitting around in often unprofessional conditions for anything up to 33 years. Why is that they still sound so good then ? Sure the official releases are treated but not the tapes in collectors circulation. If the 70's TD tapes are genuinely degrading then for crissakes TDI to something about it before it's too late ! As for overdubbing it - some of you are arguing that that is the artistes right (Christ ! Jared even feels sorry for us !). Maybe that would be a lawyers defence case if such a thing could be tried in court but PLEASE - do we need history to be re-written ? Even if it's only musical history and it's being re-written by the person(s) that got in the history book in the first place - does that make it right ? If Muhammed Ali issued a video tape of his defeat by Joe Frazier with a few CGI effects thrown in like an extra right hook or three from Ali - would you rush out and buy it ? Didn't think so - Ali was an artist but who would try and change his history ? Just because it's music doesn't mean its okay to go back and fiddle with it ! Restore yes - enhanced - possibly ! Overdubbed NO NO NO ! Would you buy a print of the Mona Lisa with a stud in her nose ? Or a condom in her pocket ? Would you like to see a revolving restaurant stuck on top of the Eiffel Tower ? Don't mess with the classics ! History is not kind to those found trying to rewrite it ! RANT MODE OFF ! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 12:17 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Bad Attitudes Running Rampant >From: 'Jared White' >Reply-To: tadream@egroups.com >To: >Subject: [tadream] Bad Attitudes Running Rampant >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:48:21 -0700 First of all, the spelling comment is extremely childish. Do you go through life telling people how lousy their spelling is, and how inconsequental their frustrations are? That must put a dent in the number of friendships you have. I am more fanatical about TD on this list than I am in real life, BY FAR. >If you don't like the 'tangentized' >classics, don't buy them. It's as easy as that. Ok, I'll stick with getting noisy bad quality bootlegs which do not profit Tangerine Dream or Edgar in any way. >Why do you all have to >get *SO* riled up about some stupid little inconsequential blip in >scheme of things? I'm waiting for the day when an artist goes back and futzes around with some piece of music or art that you love. Perhaps a purple moustache on the Mona Lisa? >There are *SO* many other things you could be doing in >your life than arguing about the same subjects OVER and OVER and OVER >again. You could read a book. Listen to Alan Hovhaness' Symphony No. 50 >'Mount St. Helens' (just heard it -- *BRILLIANT*). Take a walk in the >park. Go to a local cafe and have a coffee or a smoothie. Visit Carol >Gerten's wonderful art gallery on the Web at >http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com . DO NOT TREAT ME LIKE A CHILD, because I am not one. I deserve respect like anyone else on this list. I have asked you to stop this public harassment privately, and you responded that you have no intention of doing so. You can say what you want on this list, but personal attacks are not going to gain you the respect of other members. >P. S. I'm not an Edgar-butt kisser. I'm just a guy who happens to love >the music of Tangerine Dream, especially the music from 1988 onwards. If you prefer post-1988 Tangerine Dream music, then you have ZERO appreciation for those of us who are hurt and upset at Edgar's flippant changes to the classics. So no matter what is said, you will just personally attack people on the list, because you don't have one iota of understanding as to what affect Edgar's twinklings has on the original music. -Morgan (who is now very anxious to end this discussion) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21764 Re: Bad Attitudes Running Rampant Joe Shoults Fri 4/7/2000 2 KB From: 'Pergamon' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 1:56 am Subject: Sv: [tadream] RE: RE: Okefenokee Hehe that goes for us to here in Denmark, we will watch the show too and be a little p..... that we can't see it for real. Have a nice trip Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Tomas Rydqvist To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: RE: Okefenokee > I will see it , just to see what we people here in sweden miss, and i hope > that all who will be there in person > have a damn good time. > > Man skulle vilja vara där eller vad säger ni pojkar . > > Totta > > JoE wrote: > > > > Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:05:59 CEST > > > From: 'Patrik .' > > >Subject: Re: Okefenokee > > > > > > > > >This sunday, the 9:th of April, Swedish Television Channel 1 will show a > > >film about Okefenokee, a nature and wildlife series called 'Ett med > > >naturen'. A funny coincidence, isn´t it? > > > > > >Eller vad säger ni Thomas och Olle? > > > > > >regards > > >Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden > > <> > > > > It certainly is! > > I'm gonna watch it with Stratosfear LOUD in my headphones!! ;-) > > > > // Johan, also Stockholm, also Sweden > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > > Apply NOW! > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/955047329/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LOW RATE, NO WAIT! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates > as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/3/_/24785/_/955065327/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: aoutland@a... Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 2:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Canyon Dreams Lawry writes: Low point would be track 5, which is another of those slow meandering pieces. No doubt Dell would love it! :-) What a sneaky way to get me to write a review. However, like you, my favorites are Shadow Flyer and Canyon Voices. These two, even without the video (which I didn't have for a long time until after I had bought the cassette and played it a hundred times) evoke such wonderful scenes immediately in my mind. However, I believe I did those before on the old list, so, let's do your request instead. Sudden Revelation belies its title with music that is slow and repetitious. To me, a revelation would be like lightning exploding across a dark sky. Instead, this song drifts along like a sun drenched canoe on a slow moving stream, its passenger asleep and oblivious to conscious thought. Only at the end is there a change in the melody to a tinkling awakening, but the only revelation is that the canoe has drifted into a tree. Do I like the song? Yes. I love the whole album in fact and always thought Jerome's neophyte contribution was very special. (How proud could a father be?) In fact, I wish he would get away from the drums and go back to the simple melodic compositions like Colorado Dawn. 8-) Dell From: 'Pergamon' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 2:27 am Subject: Sv: [tadream] Bad Attitudes Running Rampant TEMPER TEMPER!!!!! Stop these personal attacks, they won't get us anywhere. This is a discussionlist about TD and all the different feelings about the band and its music. Personal attacks should not be seen on the list. Even if someone spells bad, have a different view or whatever, there is no need to attack people for that. So, on with the discussion. What about a discussion concerning your most memorable moment involving TD My most memorable moment I can think of now is this: I sat in my window one evening, it was summer and the sun was about to disappear. I was listening to Epsilon in malaysian pale by Edgar Froese, and a plane had left a white stripe of cloud through the sky (can't remember what it is called in english), the turbulence thrown the cloud out of shape into several peks that reminded me of distant blurry mountains. At that exact moment I feelt so alive an in harmony, it was so beautiful that it is hard to describe the moment and vision. The sequencers was poundering loudly and the atmosphere of the music added to the experience a feeling of joy. Yep well, that was a little memory. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Feldon Feldon To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Bad Attitudes Running Rampant > >From: 'Jared White' > >Reply-To: tadream@egroups.com > >To: > >Subject: [tadream] Bad Attitudes Running Rampant > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:48:21 -0700 > > First of all, the spelling comment is extremely childish. Do you go through > life telling people how lousy their spelling is, and how inconsequental > their frustrations are? That must put a dent in the number of friendships > you have. I am more fanatical about TD on this list than I am in real life, > BY FAR. > > >If you don't like the 'tangentized' > >classics, don't buy them. It's as easy as that. > > Ok, I'll stick with getting noisy bad quality bootlegs which do not profit > Tangerine Dream or Edgar in any way. > > >Why do you all have to > >get *SO* riled up about some stupid little inconsequential blip in > >scheme of things? > > I'm waiting for the day when an artist goes back and futzes around with some > piece of music or art that you love. Perhaps a purple moustache on the Mona > Lisa? > > >There are *SO* many other things you could be doing in > >your life than arguing about the same subjects OVER and OVER and OVER > >again. You could read a book. Listen to Alan Hovhaness' Symphony No. 50 > >'Mount St. Helens' (just heard it -- *BRILLIANT*). Take a walk in the > >park. Go to a local cafe and have a coffee or a smoothie. Visit Carol > >Gerten's wonderful art gallery on the Web at > >http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com . > > DO NOT TREAT ME LIKE A CHILD, because I am not one. I deserve respect like > anyone else on this list. I have asked you to stop this public harassment > privately, and you responded that you have no intention of doing so. You can > say what you want on this list, but personal attacks are not going to gain > you the respect of other members. > > >P. S. I'm not an Edgar-butt kisser. I'm just a guy who happens to love > >the music of Tangerine Dream, especially the music from 1988 onwards. > > If you prefer post-1988 Tangerine Dream music, then you have ZERO > appreciation for those of us who are hurt and upset at Edgar's flippant > changes to the classics. > > So no matter what is said, you will just personally attack people on the > list, because you don't have one iota of understanding as to what affect > Edgar's twinklings has on the original music. > > -Morgan (who is now very anxious to end this discussion) > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/955066665/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: 'Glenn Folkvord' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 1:10 am Subject: SV: [tadream] tangentizing Ken Mitchell wrote: >As for overdubbing it - some of you are arguing that that is the >artistes right (Christ ! Jared even feels sorry for us !). > >Maybe that would be a lawyers defence case if such a thing could be >tried in court but PLEASE - do we need history to be re-written ? >Even if it's only musical history and it's being re-written by the >person(s) that got in the history book in the first place - does >that make it right ? Maybe so, because art is not right or wrong, it is just art (ideas and feelings in someones head). Even tho I do fully support the idea of releasing music in its original state (always prefer that with Jarre) I cannot help supporting the artists because they made birth to the music and its their prerogative to shape their children anyway they want. No offense people, but some of you sound like 7 year old children who cannot get their hands on all the new Lego's in the toy store. I say, be happy about getting SOME lego's....... all the best, Glenn JarreArt www.itsahit.com/jarreart Emusic http://w3.to/_emusic From: aoutland@a... Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 3:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] D: Soundtrack[Deadly care] In a message dated 04/04/2000 10:30:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eloy-usa@a... writes: << i have never seen the 'Deadly Care' movie but i really enjoy the music. Tom >> I agree with Tom. The Main Theme is one of the most beautiful songs created by TD, along a par with Rumpelstiltskin. I have never seen the movie either (surprisingly, a lot of TD/Franke movies are being shown on tv lately, so maybe this one will come around) but do have a tape with the music interspersed with movie conversation so I have a fair idea what it's all about. Someone going down in life under the temptation of drugs is not going to have happy/up music to denote it so the music here is appropriate. Paddles/Stolen Pills relies on a slappy sequencer sound, frantic, but the whole is underlined by a deep bass warning. The feeling is of a furtiveness and deception. Strong Drink etc. is highlighted by a whining sound (reminds me of the list lately, lol) and dovetails into Bad Morning which ends with the same sound. Not well developed, but probably effective to the actual scene. Wasted and Sick is monotonous with a droning familiarish tune which ends quickly. Well, who wants to be around somebody sick and stupid? Hope for the Future repeats the Main Theme somewhat, same piano, slightly different tune, very beautiful. Shouldn't this one have been put at the end? This brings me to something I've noticed: the soundtrack releases don't always seem to follow the order of the movie. Wonder why? Anyway, this one gives you that feeling of triumph just short of blaring trumpets. The Hospital is another slow, monotonous start, not my favorite, it gets boring very soon. It reminds me of a couple of passages in Dead Solid Perfect, like endlessly waiting for something/anything to happen (hit the dam ball). Unfortunately, it's the longest track on the album. I'll bet there's some ambient/spacey people out there that love it though. It does get to a ticky ticky rhythm toward the end, but that doesn't save it for me. What kind of hospital would this be? in Gotham City? In Bed has the best, different sounds on the whole album. It's one you wish could continue on and on. But it's one of the shortest. Strange rolling sounds like a racing heart out of control. Annie & Father repeats Main Theme again. More Pills repeats Hospital; I've had enough of that one. Head Nurse's Office repeats the whine; then goes to Father's Grave quite mournfully. This must have been perfect in the movie. Clean and Sober ends the album with more lovely piano similar once again to Main Theme so I guess technically Hope for the Future does end it after all. Upshot: I'm very glad I was able to finally get hold of this album after much searching. In my top 20? No, you're right it won't make it there as a whole, but Main Theme is one I use when I want a personal tape of favorites. I guess you can get that on the Silva release Dream Music just as easily without bothering with getting this album. 8-) Dell From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 3:34 am Subject: Re: SV: [tadream] Apology I would like to apologize for responding to Jared's rant the way I did on-list. I should just let the issue drop as I'm sure everyone is tired of it by now. Edgar isn't going to do anything we ask or suggest, because as an artist, he shouldn't. If/when I start putting out my music into the world, I'll probably adopt the same philosophy. Jared, you have seen me for a week or so. I've logged about a year on this list before and I don't think I was this negative before. I was just so excited about Soundmill Navigator, especially with TDI's promise that it would be untouched. You prefer post-1988 TD, so that is probably one reason why the introduction of post-1988 instrument sounds on top of classic material is a positive thing for you. Let's not damage the list any further than has already been done. I'm sure people are unsubscribing by the handful. Regards, Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21744 Re: SV: [tadream] Apology Jared White Fri 4/7/2000 4 KB From: rbrown4856@a... Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 3:40 am Subject: Mars Polaris-Different Versions Greetings All! Has anyone on the list been able to find a copy of this Different Version of Mars Polaris?My wife seems to think this was something intentionally to create a rarity. This wouldn't surprise me any. Does anyone know if this was released in one certain country or just sent to random areas. Rick Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21776 Re: Mars Polaris-Different Versions Michael A Jean Sat 4/8/2000 2 KB From: 'Greg' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 4:20 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mars Polaris-Different Versions > Greetings All! > > Has anyone on the list been able to find a copy of this Different Version > of Mars Polaris?My wife seems to think this was something intentionally to > create a rarity. > This wouldn't surprise me any. > Does anyone know if this was released in one certain country or just sent > to random areas. > > Rick I'll have to look through my past messages, but yes, someone has described getting Mar Polaris and having a tracklist simmilar to those 100 mispressings. This is the original message I found dated 3/28/00: ___________________________________________________ [tadream] Mars Polaris 'error' From: 'Jordi J.' Hello! The people of Dock (distribution of TDI in Spain) to have some copies of 'bad' versión of Mars Polaris. 5 songs are in 'Great Wall of China'. The address is: michael@d... Error of part of cd´s of 'Mars Polaris'? I only to have this version. 11 songs and 60 minutes. The good versión is 71 min. and 10 songs. The cover back list is 10 songs. Is very strange!! Grettings! Jordi Jiménez Barcelona-Spain ____________________________________________________ From: Jared White Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 4:28 am Subject: Re: SV: [tadream] Apology Morgan and all, > I would like to apologize for responding to Jared's rant the way I did > on-list. I should just let the issue drop as I'm sure everyone is tired of > it by now. Edgar isn't going to do anything we ask or suggest, because as an > artist, he shouldn't. If/when I start putting out my music into the world, > I'll probably adopt the same philosophy. I'm glad I have Internet access where I am, so I can reply to this. I would like to apologize for the rather snide comments I directed towards you as well. I'm afraid for one reason or another all the other non-TD mailing lists I'm on right now are in the middle of big arguments with everyone going nuts, so I've been rather on edge already lately! :) > Jared, you have seen me for a week or so. I've logged about a year on this > list before and I don't think I was this negative before. I was just so > excited about Soundmill Navigator, especially with TDI's promise that it > would be untouched. You prefer post-1988 TD, so that is probably one reason > why the introduction of post-1988 instrument sounds on top of classic > material is a positive thing for you. OK, let me say this. I'm not exactly *for* overdubbed new material on old live concert tapes. In the end, I really would prefer untouched material. However, I'm an artist myself, and as Edgar is an artist who deserves a considerable amount of respect, I can respect his wisheds to enhance the music in a way that makes him comfortable with it. But, as you said, artists and the public often have widely different views on the music of said artist. It's an issue that can *never* be resolved (on the part of the listeners, at least), and therefore I really don't see the point of getting so emotionally involved in such a way. I do agree, however, that TDI has rather dropped the ball this time -- they should at least apologize for misinforming the list as to the possibility of SN being 'tangentized' or not. > Let's not damage the list any further than has already been done. I'm sure > people are unsubscribing by the handful. Yes, it would be nice if the list could quiet down by the time the next album rolls around in the weekly album discussion. Livemiles, is it? I wonder what the concensus will be! Regards, Jared P. S. No hard feelings, I hope, Morgan? Shake? From: Chris Richards Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 6:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 452 <<>Now, in all of those instances (except Pergamon) >the band was presenting something that was >essentially new, and maybe the opportunity to >make it a 'step forward, musically' gave rise to >the decision to do things like Coldwater Canyon, It still boggles my mind why TD didn't release that 14 minute encore from Pergamon.>> It boggles my mind that they never released any of the actual pieces that were played on the 77 US tour apart from Cherokee Lane and Monolight! I don't think I've ever heard an official TD release that has any of the other five pieces on it! ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21746 Re: Digest Number 452 Chris Richards Fri 4/7/2000 2 KB From: Chris Richards Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 6:58 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 452 <> Well, here are the ones I'd like to see put out: Reims Cathedral (December 74) Melbourne 3/22/75 Montreal 77 (the entire show) Brussels 80 Paris 81 NP: Pergamon ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Chris Richards Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 7:57 am Subject: Off topic: Re: Roger Waters <> Yeah, but I remember hearing reports (and I think it happened here in Cleveland too) of people griping about 'when he's gonna do another Floyd tune?' because obviously that was what were there for. I think it would have worked better to mix the solo and Floyd material a bit better, for that reason. Also, I would have rather he hadn't done so much from Wish You Were Here (leaving out only Have A Cigar and some parts of Shine On) and Dark Side Of The Moon (besides On The Run and most of Great Gig In The Sky, he also didn't do Us And Them. On the other hand, I found his version of Shine On You Crazy Diamond more satisfying than what Pink Floyd did in 94, and I also enjoyed hearing Welcome To The Machine (I just wish he had used the movies for those songs and had included Shine On parts VIII and IX). From: 'Simon Slator' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 8:22 am Subject: Re: Questionnaire Thanks to all those that have submitted their answers to my questionnaire. I had a good response overnight and it's still open to those that still want to fill it in. ... and if the person who told me that one of the buttons wasn't working is on this list - thanks!!! I didn't notice that! I've managed to fix it now. Some new material will be online at mp3.com within the next two-three weeks, if all goes well. I can't promise weirdness with a TaDream sound (as many have suggested - do your own thing), but what's been done so far is turning out quite nicely. And now for something completely on topic. I was browsing through HMV's website recently - and I noticed that most of the Edgar Froese solo albums listed there were 'Unavailable'. I just hope they're not completely deleted - I had a lot of trouble getting hold of 'Epsilon in Malaysian Pale' and don't want the same trouble for all the other Froese albums. Simon. ============== Simon Slator Website: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/simon.slator Download my own music at: http://www.mp3.com/simonslatorproject [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 8:24 am Subject: memorable TD moments Well Jan I think it's a good discussion topic, so mine is: I was 15 or 16 and I had just moved from Seattle to Indiana. I was walking a lot in the woods as I hadn't made many friends yet. I starting hearing things very closely... what some people call 'deep listening'. I was also going to a music store nearby and playing around with a synthesizer, which seemed to me to be the most flexible instrument available.... Then in a very short span of time I got Stratosfear - TD Mirage - KS Oxygene - JMJ Snowflakes are Dancing - Tomita ( I'm not real crazy about ALL his work, but I still like this album) Stratosfear was the first, though.... I remember seeing an ad in a music magazine, and there was some comment about travelling through space with this music, and mentioning it was synthesizer music... so, intrigued I walked to the record store and bought it.... I took it home and listened to it that evening in my bedroom with some candles lit.... I really was transported... this was like nothing I had ever heard before... no lyrics to fix the mind on something concrete just music that mesmerized and freed the imagination to go where it wanted...after that last piano note on side two I turned it over and played it again.... and again. I was forever changed at that point.... Poly From: Glynn.Naughton@a... Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 8:52 am Subject: Ash Ra Tempel/Klaus Schulze >Message: 17 > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:05:35 +0100 > From: 'David Foster' >Subject: K Schulze / Ash Ra Temple > >I have heard old live stuff were KS has played with Manuel Gotschiing but not As Ra. > >Can someone please tell me what is the difference between Ash Ra playing live and KS playing live with MG? > >David As far as the Festival Hall show was concerned, I think that the difference could be summed up in one word: marketing. By billing the show as an 'Ash Ra Tempel' show, the promoter could use the 'First ever British show!' and 'Original Members' Reunion After 30 Years!' angles. A 'Klaus Schulze' show would be a much less attractive bait for the punters. No matter what it said on the tin, however, musically the show was a completely standard Klaus Schulze show. Indeed, given that Goettsching has accompanied Schulze in the past on his live shows (whether in Britain or not, I don't know), perhaps the 'Ash Ra Tempel' label was even more tenuous. As you quite rightly ask: what *is* the difference? I don't mean this as a criticism: I think that it's perfectly reasonable that the promoter should try to get the best return on their investment. Glynn From: Derk Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 1:02 pm Subject: Plus ca change... >From: 'Hermes Guzman' >Subject: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose (RE:'Tangentizing') Either you are a Rush fan, or this is a commonly used phrase. I only know it from the Rush song Circumstances (from the excellent Hemispheres album), but maybe Quebecois say it all the time! So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) D Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21757 Re: Plus ca change... Gabe Yedid Fri 4/7/2000 3 KB 21796 Re: Plus ca change... Vincent Goudreault Mon 4/10/2000 3 KB From: Vincent Goudreault Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 1:19 pm Subject: Re: most memorable moment tadream@egroups.com wrote: (...) > I sat in my window one evening, it was summer and the sun was about to disappear. I was listening to Epsilon in malaysian pale by Edgar Froese, and a plane had left a white stripe of cloud through the sky (can't remember what it is called in english), the turbulence thrown the cloud out of shape into << emergence >> Those are called 'contrails', a contraction of the words 'condensation' and 'trail'. << ecnegreme >> > Yep well, that was a little memory. > > Jan > -- C.B.Vincent Goudreault, Ing. tél: (514) 855-5001 poste 53442 Aérodynamique, Dept 773 fax: (514) 855-2497 Bombardier Aéronautique 1800 Marcel-Laurin, St-Laurent, Québec H4R 1K2 CANADA From: 'Pergamon' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 1:57 pm Subject: Sv: [tadream] Re: most memorable moment Hehe thanks Vincent, I just could not remember the word. It was condensation I was looking for but you learned me something new (contrails). Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Vincent Goudreault To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 3:19 PM Subject: [tadream] Re: most memorable moment > tadream@egroups.com wrote: > > (...) > > I sat in my window one evening, it was summer and the sun was about to disappear. I was listening to Epsilon in malaysian pale by Edgar Froese, and a plane had left a white stripe of cloud through the sky (can't remember what it is called in english), the turbulence thrown the cloud out of shape into > > << emergence >> > > Those are called 'contrails', a contraction of the words 'condensation' > and 'trail'. > > << ecnegreme >> > > > Yep well, that was a little memory. > > > > Jan > > > > -- > C.B.Vincent Goudreault, Ing. tél: (514) 855-5001 poste 53442 > Aérodynamique, Dept 773 fax: (514) 855-2497 > Bombardier Aéronautique > 1800 Marcel-Laurin, St-Laurent, Québec H4R 1K2 CANADA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/24785/_/955113558/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: John Mcintyre Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 2:17 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic: Re: Roger Waters Chris Richards wrote: > (literally), he finished off the Dark Side with > Brain Damage/Eclipse then capped it with an > encore of 'Comfortably Numb'... > > Well, the show I saw, he actually ended the > second set with The Happiest Days Of Our Lives > and Another Brick In The Wall pt.2 (and for the > record, he started the show with the In The Flesh > reprise from side four of the album, not that > track that opened side one), and then did Brain > Damage and Eclipse as the first encore, THEN > Comfortably Numb. I'm not sure where in the tour the set list changed, but I saw the third show of the tour at Pine Knob and caught one of the last shows at Grand Rapids. The first one was as Chris described, while the Grand Rapids show had all the Wall songs at the beginning, Brain Damage and Eclipse incorporated into the set, and Comfortably Numb as the sole encore. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... From: John Mcintyre Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 2:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Ash Ra Tempel/Klaus Schulze > > > From: 'David Foster' > > >I have heard old live stuff were KS has played with Manuel Gotschiing but > not As Ra. > > > >Can someone please tell me what is the difference between Ash Ra playing > live and KS playing live with MG? While Klaus did play some keyboards in Ash Ra Tempel, his primary role was drummer. So for me, if Klaus were playing drums, it would be an Ash Ra Tempel reunion (would help if they could find the bass player as well.) I would describe the show in London as Klaus with MG. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21769 Re: Ash Ra Tempel/Klaus Schulze David Foster Sat 4/8/2000 4 KB From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 3:03 pm Subject: D: studio: Canyon Dreams Canyon Dreams is one of my favorite albums. My two favorite tracks are Canyon Carver, and Shadow Flyer. There's several other good ones, too. I prefer the video version of Shadow Flyer over that on the CD, though both kick ___. Canyon Carver is a really rockin' toon. The sound effects so precisely tell the tale of that water splashing up in massive columns of droplets as it smashes into rocks. It goes so well with the video! There's another one that I can't recall the title of, but I think it's 'A Matter of Time'. Whichever one it is, it's the one with that sequence of what sounds like bamboo bells. It goes along with the time-lapse photography of the waterfall. It's good stuff, and here again goes incredibly well with the video. 'Colorado Dawn' is pretty decent, but does sound a little out of place on Canyon Dreams (of course I had the video for YEARS before I finally heard the CD - still don't have an original!). It sounds like a cut off of Oasis. Maybe doing Colorado Dawn inspired Jerome/Edgar for their wonderful effort on Oasis. 'Purple Nightfall' sounds just like what it is: Closing credit music. Basically just filler. Nothing terribly interesting. Anyway, that's what I think. In all, I love the album, and it stands right up there with the other Froese/Franke/Haslinger albums (which ALL make it into my top 10 list - EVEN TYGER). I mourn the fact that they didn't put out more albums under this lineup. On an off-topic note: Did Vangelis and Jean-Michael Jarre do a collaboration? I download some MP3 samples that are supposedly Vangelis and JMJ. I like what I've heard, but I haven't seen any info on it anywhere. Anyone know about this? Respond off-list if you like. Thanks, James From: Gabe Yedid Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 3:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Plus ca change... On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Derk wrote: > >From: 'Hermes Guzman' > >Subject: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose > (RE:'Tangentizing') > > Either you are a Rush fan, or this is a commonly used phrase. I only know > it from the Rush song Circumstances (from the excellent Hemispheres album), > but maybe Quebecois say it all the time! Ummm...as far as I know, Hermes isn't from Quebec, and neither are any of the members of Rush. They just do a lot of recording here, that's all, and seem to have a pretty sizeable Quebec fan base to boot. But you know that French *is* one of Canada's official langauges, after all. > So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) > > D No, you're not the only one. (Although I'm not nearly as heavily into Rush as I am into TD) Gabe From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 4:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Plus ca change... > > Either you are a Rush fan, or this is a commonly used phrase. I only know > it from the Rush song Circumstances (from the excellent Hemispheres album), > but maybe Quebecois say it all the time! > > So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) > Not at all, I also like TD and Rush, but unlike TD, Rush lost me when they started writing shorter (dare I say more commercial sounding) music, at least with TD I always find a track or two that I really like on each release, I has been a while since I heard a new Rush track that I really liked, How I long for the 'Villa Stragiato' days. Is this what happens when one gets old? Marcelo NP: Gift CD, really nice! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21759 Re: Plus ca change... jowers Fri 4/7/2000 2 KB 21775 Re: Plus ca change... jjoy Sat 4/8/2000 2 KB From: jowers Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 6:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Plus ca change... >So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) I'm a equal fan of both groups. They're both my favorite bands:) If anybody is interested in trading, I've got well over 100 Rush shows representing every tour they've done since 1974. Would love to swap for some TD shows I don't have. ======================================= PLEASE email me PRIVATELY if you're interested! ======================================= Thanks, Kevin kvjowers@i... From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 6:23 pm Subject: Mona Lisa with a stud in her nose, Livemiles Wow, One makes me laugh, the other makes me cry. Livemiles is good, I was just disapointed not to find what I remember. For awhile I questioned whether the band and I were even at the same concert. Now, I have accepted that we were not, oh well... Does anyone have proof? Just so that I can make sure. I would love to bring back the feeling of finally being able to see TD after being in awe of the music for so long. I was treated to awesome new music (Legend, Underwater Sunlight) and some of my favorite classics. Albuquerque 86 was a great concert. Desert twilight rainbows, lightning kissing the volcanic mesas. Then TD played. The number one concert I would like to see released is <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was more than I could enjoy at the time. What was the best fan tape from 86? Who has one? The other years that I would like to be able to hear more from are: 75, 77, 79, 80, 81-86 1^ 2^ 3^ 4^ 5^ for some reason I feel pretty saturated with the current era. but love Dream Mixes/(most of)Timesquare Girl on the stairs (remix) Oasis Shit, I like alot of the new albums. I'm just not as suprized or in awe of them like I used to be. Edgar was able to express to me the concept of personal music. Many TD releases became the soundscape to my adventures. The first listenings of TD releases seemed to bind with the moment. Now with the era of digital media, I think Edgar has an opportunity to make his music even more personal. let me select my experience: 1)original concert w/ best attempt clean up. 2)concert as interpreted by Edgar with current feelings added. 3)...(to be imagined) Has anyone found out if Jerome was involved with the new additions? I give him credit for the Dream Mix influence. Is that right? Oh Yeah, one more thing I miss having One world, one TD list. Later Dreamers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 9:22 pm Subject: Tangentizing. Yawn. *8-O Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21768 Re: Tangentizing. Gabe Yedid Sat 4/8/2000 2 KB 21773 Re: Tangentizing. Lawry Simm Sat 4/8/2000 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 9:24 pm Subject: extremely interesting post: My EM history and my fave musicians Hello there! I've had some problems in the near past with email accounts, but I managed to keep most of the digests, thru the Hotmail account. This is a complicated year for me (not getting into that subject), which means that I have much less time than in the last year. I have around 200 pages of digests, always increasing, so I'm trying to get back on track. You've been talking about a lot of things in the last week. One of those was about your favourite musicians. Probably I've said something about this, but my favourite musicians are: Jean-Michel Jarre - the first e-musician I ever heard, in August-1987. It was Concerts in China, which my father bought because of my sister's third birthday, which was filmed and the track Souvenir of China used as overture for the tape. I always liked this album with different music, and finally after making some discoveries in the internet (almost all the albums in MP3 format, for example), I bought Zoolook and Magnetic Fields in april/1999. Then I started to look for more. Kraftwerk - this group was just a very pale memory of the 80s - I was born in Oct/1982. They came here in the Free Jazz Festival, in Rio, my hometown, late/98. I finally discovered Autobahn in the 17th of June, 1999. Mike Oldfield - At this point, I had already heard about TD. I was in one of the best CD stores in Rio, where I found MANY TD albums. Of course, how could I pick one? I saw the Analogue Years 2 CD compilation, with those very intriguing names, like Alpha Centauri (which is one of my favourite star names - I also love Astronomy), Birth of Liquid Plejades... But it was a bit expensive. I also saw the remastered 25th anniversary edition of Tubular Bells, which was a bit less expensive. I decided to buy this one, because I had heard a lot about this legendary album - my father bought it in the 70s and I didn't know exactly what to expect from TD. That's how I met one of my fave musicians, M.O. It was July,1999. Tangerine Dream - It was August, 1999. I had already subscribed to the international and Brazilian lists dedicated to Jarre. I visit another of the usual stores I always go, and find (again) a few TD CDs - Le Parc, Cyclone, Force Majeure, Pergamon, Ricochet, etc. I see Pergamon. Two tracks, more than 20 minutes each. I'm always attracted to huge tracks, they are always more mysterious. I get Pergamon and ask to play it, while I search the shelves of the tiny store (it's just a room, with not more than 200 or 300 CDs for sale and many LPs (probably around 300). As I look for Jarre/KW/MO CDs, I leave Pergamon a bit in the background - so much time for things to happen, I thought, after a couple of minutes just listening. Then Tangrampiano, then a deja vu, and I keep listening to the album. Suddenly, I realize a repeating pattern - electronic sequence. I don't even know how much time passed or if I heard the whole album (probably not), but when I get Pergamon and put it back on the shelf (was out of money), I realize that I just heard a masterpiece. Pergamon was in my head the following weeks, and I had musical flashbacks all the time, but I just remembered that it was a fantastic piece of music and I had to finally buy something from TD as soon as possible. In the 28th of August, I find some TD CDs for sale in a street market in downtown (to illustrate, it reminds those arabian markets, but much more organized.) I don't remember which CDs were there, but I get Extracts from Poland and White Eagle (I realized that it wasn't the whole Poland few days later.). A couple of hours later, at home, in a sunny Saturday, I finally meet TD. What a memorable day. The track that made a instantaneous impact was, of course Midnight in Tula, but these albums showed me a new universe - I was used to Jarre's structured compositions, but T.Bells had already opened a big window. I fell in love with TD subscribed to THIS list weeks later, and that was the beginning... That Force Majeure I told you about was the third TD album I bought. Later, I got Rubycon and Phaedra in very old and worn Brazilian vinyls (28/Sept.), then Stratosfear and Ricochet (15/Oct.) and then, finally, Pergamon (3/Nov.). Now I have 21 TD albums, including CD-Rs (I know, it's a sin), vinyls and CDs. In this period, I also found Isao Tomita (already had an old Boléro vinyl), and later (this year) Vangelis. I already almost cried with Oldfield's Ommadawn (22/January/2000). Also, I met Klaus Schulze last year (Moondawn and Dig It), but still have to buy one of his albums. My collection so far has 55 different albums. And my favourite musicians are (so far): Tangeold Kraftjarre, Mike Van Dream, Isao Field, Michelgelis Tomitarine, and Jean Werk. I can't have a number one favourite. Also, in January, I started making music, as you know. Now I'm taking keyboard lessons and I'm going to buy a good keyboard soon... This turned out to be a huge post, but I hope enjoyed reading this. Read you later! Jobim Gustavo F. Jobim - gustavfj@m... http://gfjm.cjb.net From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 9:35 pm Subject: IRC Hello again, folks I hope we can meet at #tadream @ sorcery.net this night. I'm gonna be there after 3 AM GMT. (Midnight, local time). Gustavo F. Jobim - gustavfj@m... http://gfjm.cjb.net From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 9:53 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Bad Attitudes Running Rampant ok. it is bad to make personal comments/attacks, and just as bad to RESPOND to them on-list. if you feel the burning need to defend yourself as a result of a real or percieved personal attack, please take it off-list. we will all respect you more for doing that, than any amount of respect you think you can gain by defending yourself. thank you, joe From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 10:08 pm Subject: OT: RE: [tadream] Plus ca change... coinkydink. right as I'm reading this, I happen to be listening to LaVilla. ;-) I felt the same way until I saw Presto live. They knocked my socks off! I decided that *I* was the stick-in-the-mud that didn't want them to change and stay with their old musical style- the longer, more progressive epic ballad stuff (gee- does this sound liek a TD discussion or what?) like the stuff off Hemispheres etc. Certainly, Moving Pictures or Permanent Waves was the turning point, but that was great, too. Still it's easier for me to listen to the older stuff than to pick up the new. I guess I am getting old. joe np: rush- la villa strangiato > -----Original Message----- ... > Not at all, I also like TD and Rush, but unlike TD, Rush lost > me when they > started writing shorter (dare I say more commercial sounding) > music, at > least with TD I always find a track or two that I really like on each > release, I has been a while since I heard a new Rush track > that I really > liked, How I long for the 'Villa Stragiato' days. Is this > what happens when > one gets old? > From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Fri Apr 7, 2000 10:16 pm Subject: live release wishlist here's what I have so far for the 'I wish TD would release these shows untouched' poll: 1) Place des Arts, Montreal 1977 (only what's not similar to _Encore_) 2) Brussels Cirque Royale 1980 3) Newcastle City Hall, Fall 1981 (or any decent show from the Fall 1981 UK tour, set 1 only) 4) Paris Olympia 1986 (is this the right venue) 5) Bristol 1990 (yeah, I love _Melrose_) 6) Paris 81 7) Reims Cathedral (December 74) 8) Melbourne 3/22/75 9) Albuquerque 86 at the Kiva 10) Avery Fisher Hall '77 11) Cleveland '86 any more? np: zappa - yellow snow Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21787 Re: live release wishlist twosheds Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB 21789 Re: Re: live release wishlist Sean Montgomery Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB 21794 Re: Re: live release wishlist joe shoults Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB 21801 Re: Re: live release wishlist Sean Montgomery Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 3:01 am Subject: my fave musicians: add-on What a sin, i forgot to mention I really like Enya, Loreena Mc Kennitt and Enigma, and Alan Parsons, and I also like the Beatles, and forgot to mention classical music (Dvorak, C.Orff, Stravinsky, Beethoven, Vivaldi), although I have only 1 album from each of the first 3 I mentioned, and have very few recordings from the 'classical' music. I'm also looking for Stockhausen. I hope I didn't forget anyone. Ah, there's also a German band that I can't recall the name... Orange something? Gustavo F. Jobim - gustavfj@m... http://gfjm.cjb.net From: Gabe Yedid Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 3:03 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Tangentizing. On Fri, 7 Apr 2000, Lawry Simm wrote: > Yawn. *8-O That just about says it all eh? ;) Seriously, does this mean that you're bored of discussing the issue, or that having to listen to the doctored music bores you? cheers, Gabe From: 'David Foster' Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 6:15 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Ash Ra Tempel/Klaus Schulze ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2000 9:52 AM Subject: [tadream] Ash Ra Tempel/Klaus Schulze > >Message: 17 > > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:05:35 +0100 > > From: 'David Foster' > >Subject: K Schulze / Ash Ra Temple > > > >I have heard old live stuff were KS has played with Manuel Gotschiing but > not As Ra. > > > >Can someone please tell me what is the difference between Ash Ra playing > live and KS playing live with MG? > > > >David > > As far as the Festival Hall show was concerned, I think that the difference > could be summed up in one word: marketing. By billing the show as an 'Ash Ra > Tempel' show, the promoter could use the 'First ever British show!' and > 'Original Members' Reunion After 30 Years!' angles. A 'Klaus Schulze' show > would be a much less attractive bait for the punters. No matter what it said > on the tin, however, musically the show was a completely standard Klaus > Schulze show. Indeed, given that Goettsching has accompanied Schulze in the > past on his live shows (whether in Britain or not, I don't know), perhaps > the 'Ash Ra Tempel' label was even more tenuous. As you quite rightly ask: > what *is* the difference? > > I don't mean this as a criticism: I think that it's perfectly reasonable > that the promoter should try to get the best return on their investment. > > Glynn > > Glynn Thank you for the explanation. David > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/24785/_/955097567/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > From: Chris Richards Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 9:50 am Subject: Re: Ash Ra Tempel <> From what I hear, ART's original bassist had a bad acid trip and quit music. That's actually an over simplification, but I used to be regular contact with this cat who wrote a book about 'Krautrock', which never got published (because apparently, the publisher lost interest). I guess at some point he interviewed MG, and he essentially told him that the bassist in question quit music YEARS ago and that he didn't even know what had become of him. Oh well, maybe Klaus should bring Manuel in on the next Dark Side Of The Moog project, eh? :-) NP: Ted Nugent 'Hey Baby' (first album-remastered, natch) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: 'Frank Arellano' Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 6:04 pm Subject: Live release wishlist Montreal 77' Paris 86' Frank Arellano [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 5:41 pm Subject: Discussion Week 30 - Sunday 9th April 2000 This week is another double soundtrack week, covering 3 O'clock High and Near Dark. Please make your subject 'D:Soundtrack [3 O'clock High]' or 'D:Soundtrack [Near Dark]' as appropriate. We welcome comments, thoughts and reviews from all people on the list, new or old. Keep Dreaming, Lawry NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 6:11 pm Subject: Re: Tangentizing. >> ME > Gabe >> Yawn. *8-O >That just about says it all eh? ;) >Seriously, does this mean that you're bored of discussing the issue, or >that having to listen to the doctored music bores you? I personally think Goozer said all that needed saying on the subject (well done that man). I didn't even bother reading the next 20 or 30 replies on the matter. I'm a little bored of the fact that every album that comes out that has been tangentised provokes the same endless circular discussion... half the list hate it, half don't mind, there will never be a resolution to the discussion that's satisfactory to everyone. I weigh each album on it's individual merits, and couldn't care less whether there are bits added or bits taken away as, long as I enjoy the end result. I have SN on order, but don't have it yet, so can't comment on that one directly. Darn, you drew me into the same dull conversation now! :-) Lawry NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: jjoy Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 7:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D: studio: Canyon Dreams >'Colorado Dawn' is pretty decent, but does sound a little out of place on >Canyon Dreams (of course I had the video for YEARS before I finally heard >the CD - still don't have an original!). It sounds like a cut off of Oasis. To me it sounds as an almost exact copy of a well-known song from Enigma... jjoy From: jjoy Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 7:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Plus ca change... From: Derk >So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) Me too! And I like BOTH the old classics and the current output from Rush as well as from TD. I'm a real addict :) jjoy NP - Adelaide 75/Hoenig: Departure - they're the same thing!!! From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 7:45 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Mars Polaris-Different Versions I heard that DOCK in Spain had it.... > -----Original Message----- > From: rbrown4856@a... [mailto:rbrown4856@a...] > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 10:41 PM > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Mars Polaris-Different Versions > > > Greetings All! > > Has anyone on the list been able to find a copy of this > Different Version > of Mars Polaris?My wife seems to think this was something > intentionally to > create a rarity. > This wouldn't surprise me any. > Does anyone know if this was released in one certain country > or just sent > to random areas. > > From: aoutland@a... Date: Sat Apr 8, 2000 8:17 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator In a message dated 04/06/2000 6:04:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joes@c... writes: << we can do a 'poll' for up to 25 shows: >> 1. Rheims 75 2. Manchester 76 3. Brussels 76 4. Paris 76 5. Montreal 77 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21778 Re: Soundmill Navigator Gabe Yedid Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB From: Gabe Yedid Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 12:30 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 aoutland@a... wrote: > 5. Montreal 77 Yet another vote for Montreal '77...are we on to something here, you think? ;) Gabe who'd *love* for this to materialize, not excessively Tangentized. From: tom807@a... Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 1:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator I'm afraid that all our wishes are in vain. Edgar has proven that anything released from the vaults will be tangentized. And as Soundmill Navigator also proves, it will be ruined. We might as well be happy with fan tapes because it is our only source of history that is not revised. In a message dated 4/8/00 8:31:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gabe@p... writes: > > 5. Montreal 77 > > Yet another vote for Montreal '77...are we on to something here, you > think? ;) > > Gabe > who'd *love* for this to materialize, not excessively Tangentized. -- Tom http://www.mp3.com/tom807 From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 9:41 am Subject: D:Soundtrack [3 O'clock High] Three O'Clock High (1987) This is a strange one to review, as it's not exclusively a Tangerine Dream soundtrack. Also, the vast majority of tracks are under 1 minute cues. 1. It's Jerry's Day Today (:35) 2. 46-32-15 (:47) 3. No Detention (:55) 4. Any School Bully Will Do (:25) 5. Go To The Head Of The Class (3:03) 6. Sit (:50) (*) 7. The Fight (2:40) (*) 8. Jerry's Decisions (3:25) (*) 9. The Fight Is On (3:35) (*) 10. Paper (1:18) (*) 11. Big Bright Brass Knuckles (1:50) 12. Buying Paper Like It's Going Out Of Style (1:30) 13. Dangerous Trend (:53) 14. Who's Chasing Who (:55) 15. Bonding By Candlelight (1:30) 16. You'll Never Believe It (2:10) 17. Starting The Day Off Right (1:05) 18. Weak At The Knees (1:55) 19. Kill Him (The Football Dummy) (1:00) 20. Not So Quiet In The Library / Get Lost In A Crowd (:40) 21. Something To Remember Me By (6:00) (**) 22. Arrival (2:00) (***) Well, all tracks with (*) are Sylvester Levay (Airwolf anyone?), the track with (**) is by Jim Walker, and track (***) is by Rick Moratta and David Tickle. The remainder are by Froese/Haslinger. So that cuts us down to 15 out of 22 tracks. Then lets discard those under a minute which it's pointless trying to review, as they are only a couple of bars long once they fade in and back out again. That drops another 7 so we are down to eight. Of which 6 are less than 2 minutes long, 1 is less than 2:30 and the other is a whopping 3:03 marathon of a track. This was one of those albums it took me years to track down. And what a waste of effort it was. This is one of those 'Let's cash in on the TD name' by Varase Saraband. In actual fact 50% of the music on the album is not Tangerine Dream. Okay, so this wouldn't be a problem if the TD half was any good, but unfortunately it's not. And this is through no fault of TD... they supply the full music, the film company snips it down to use in the film. Fair enough. But usually it's nice for the film company to release the unsnipped music as the soundtrack, not a pointless pile of 30 second cues. How on earth can one listen to 30 second cues and get any enjoyment from it? All in all, unless you are a mad completist. If you are struggling to find this album, do yourself a favour and spend the money on one of these excellent albums - Arcane/Gather Darkness, FSP/Pointless Reminder, Redshift/Downtime and see what an EM album is all about. Regards, Lawry Simm NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21781 D:Soundtrack [3 O'clock High] Lawry Simm Sun 4/9/2000 4 KB 21800 D:Soundtrack [3 O'clock High] Owens, James E Mon 4/10/2000 4 KB From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 9:44 am Subject: D:Soundtrack [3 O'clock High] Three O'Clock High (1987) This is a strange one to review, as it's not exclusively a Tangerine Dream soundtrack. Also, the vast majority of tracks are under 1 minute cues. 1. It's Jerry's Day Today (:35) 2. 46-32-15 (:47) 3. No Detention (:55) 4. Any School Bully Will Do (:25) 5. Go To The Head Of The Class (3:03) 6. Sit (:50) (*) 7. The Fight (2:40) (*) 8. Jerry's Decisions (3:25) (*) 9. The Fight Is On (3:35) (*) 10. Paper (1:18) (*) 11. Big Bright Brass Knuckles (1:50) 12. Buying Paper Like It's Going Out Of Style (1:30) 13. Dangerous Trend (:53) 14. Who's Chasing Who (:55) 15. Bonding By Candlelight (1:30) 16. You'll Never Believe It (2:10) 17. Starting The Day Off Right (1:05) 18. Weak At The Knees (1:55) 19. Kill Him (The Football Dummy) (1:00) 20. Not So Quiet In The Library / Get Lost In A Crowd (:40) 21. Something To Remember Me By (6:00) (**) 22. Arrival (2:00) (***) Well, all tracks with (*) are Sylvester Levay (Airwolf anyone?), the track with (**) is by Jim Walker, and track (***) is by Rick Moratta and David Tickle. The remainder are by Froese/Haslinger. So that cuts us down to 15 out of 22 tracks. Then lets discard those under a minute which it's pointless trying to review, as they are only a couple of bars long once they fade in and back out again. That drops another 7 so we are down to eight. Of which 6 are less than 2 minutes long, 1 is less than 2:30 and the other is a whopping 3:03 marathon of a track. This was one of those albums it took me years to track down. And what a waste of effort it was. This is one of those 'Let's cash in on the TD name' by Varase Saraband. In actual fact 50% of the music on the album is not Tangerine Dream. Okay, so this wouldn't be a problem if the TD half was any good, but unfortunately it's not. And this is through no fault of TD... they supply the full music, the film company snips it down to use in the film. Fair enough. But usually it's nice for the film company to release the unsnipped music as the soundtrack, not a pointless pile of 30 second cues. How on earth can one listen to 30 second cues and get any enjoyment from it? All in all, unless you are a mad completist. If you are struggling to find this album, do yourself a favour and spend the money on one of these excellent albums - Arcane/Gather Darkness, FSP/Pointless Reminder, Redshift/Downtime and see what an EM album is all about. 0AS Regards, Lawry Simm NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 9:45 am Subject: D:Soundtrack [Near Dark] Near Dark (recorded 1987 - released 1988) 1. Caleb's Blues (3:10) 2. Pick Up At High Noon (4:56) 3. Rain In The Third House (2:56) 4. Bus Station (includes Mae's Theme) (8:38) 5. Good Times (2:35) 6. She's My Sister (7:20) 7. Mae Comes Back (2:00) 8. Father And Son (2:55) 9. Severin Dies (2:45) 10. Fight At Dawn (4:40) 11. Mae's Transformation (4:20) (Froese/Haslinger) Scott Plumer in his book 'Mysterious Semblance: A Tangerine Dream Chronology' states ''Caleb's Blues' was not used in the film. Good thing too, because it was terrible.' Over the years on the mailing lists, I've noticed that he is very far from being the only person to think like this. However, for some reason I like this a lot. Maybe it's because even though I like 'proper' blues a great deal, I've always been a sucker for a straight 'Status Quo' 12 bar blues. And here are my favourite band having a pop at it too. Okay, it's simple and repetitive, but it's fun, and I think it's a great opener for the album. The rest of the album is very different from the opener. No more fun to be had, as a lot of the remainder is dark and moody. Now this would normally be something I'd complain about, but on this album they have done it very well. Great rhythms at times drive the soundtrack along making sure that it's not purely dark ambience. Pick Up At High Noon for example starts off in a very low register. Slowly building up atmosphere, until a couple of muted toms appear to lift the beat up. Joined by a couple of electric guitar licks, after 4 minutes a full drum pattern emerges, joined again by electric guitar, then a bassline sequence starts driving us towards the end of the track Rain In The Third House reminds me of something else, but I can't place it. There are lots of choral patches and electric guitar on this album, and indeed this track, but the high register tinkly arpeggios that appear just under the surface of this track are gorgeous, and it's these that remind me of another track. Two thirds of the way in, a full 'rock' drum pattern emerges and again drives us through the remainder of the track. Bus Station starts with sounds that we're probably on Le Parc in a brighter format. Great haunting rhythmic intro. The drum sounds so low you can hardly hear them, emulating running footsteps. Again, the drumbeat builds up into a full pattern, and moves further forward in the mix. Giving just a sense of urgency to the score. This track evolves into Mae's Theme, which as with all good 'girl's themes, evokes images of spring mornings. Flower open in timed lapsed photography, dew drops form on the petal, butterflies flapping around in the early morning sun etc etc. A bit sweet, but perhaps a welcome lightening of the mood. Goodtimes could be straight off 220 Volt. Straight on TD rock track with chugging and wailing distorted guitar over simple rock drum pattern. Not the best track on the album. But only a couple of minutes long anyway. She's My Sister has some nice touches in. Some bits remind me a great deal of a darker Underwater Sunlight, which is no bad thing as Underwater Sunlight is one of my favourite albums of all time. Mae Comes Back is just a short two minute snatch of moody strings. Not much to write about it. Father and Son is another 'Le Parc' sounding track. Very easy to place this albums creation chronologically. Simple sequences layer quite well, a few chords over the top to add some interest. I'm particularly fond of the 3 note loop that permeates this track. Severin Dies is just another short snippet, this time very dramatic, though unfortunately also very boring. Fight At Dawn takes some themes from earlier in the album and amalgamates then into the uptempo climax to the action in the film. Mae's Transformation reminds me of Shy People. Rehash of Mae's Theme to conclude the film when it turns out they don't have to live the rest of their lives as vampires and get on just fine with the morning sun... just four minutes of synth string pads. Well, I didn't want to do a track by track run down, but it seems that's what I ended up doing... the first half of the album is much my favourite and hence the longer descriptions there.... I forgot to say I absolutely love the picture on the back cover of the album, that of Severin silhouetted against the burning trailer (not that I'm a pyromaniac). Overall, I would say that Near Dark is the best soundtrack album that TD have done, and of all the films I have seen with their music in, this would be the one where the music fits the film the best too. The instrumentation and orchestration are, I believe, excellently done. 'Near Dark' is about an accurate description for the music as you can get. And despite me saying mainly that my favourite TD period is 1978-1983, this is another album that goes to show that they could still chuck together excellent stuff well beyond 1983. 4AS Regards, Lawry Simm NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm From: 'Lawry Simm' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 9:47 am Subject: Sorry My mailer just went bonkers and I may have reposted my reviews several times (I'm on digest so won't know until tomorrow). I apologise profusely if I have done so. Lawry NEW email address - lawry.simm@f... ICQ # 23267226 Instant Messenger - lawrysimm Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 27656 Sorry vic rek Thu 7/12/2001 2 KB From: Glynn Naughton Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 3:22 pm Subject: TD/Rush >From: Derk > >So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) > >D I used to be a Rush fan years ago. I bought _Different Stages_ last year (my first Rush album for donkey's years) and was bored rigid by the whole thing. All that Ayn Rand/Apollo and Dionysus stuff just makes me giggle these days. Still, Neil Peart must rate as one of the most eye-poppingly brilliant virtuosos (on any instrument) ever to walk the face of the earth. He even used that 'Iron filings in a washing machine' sound from 'Catwalk' in the drum solo on _DS_. Was this a TD original sound that he sampled, or is it a widely available sound, I wonder? Glynn PS Anyone see that Floyd documentary on Channel 4 on Saturday night? It was terrific to finally see footage from those _Wall_ concerts after hearing about them for so long... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21785 Solar Eclipse CD (last remember) Rainer Rutka Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB From: Rainer Rutka Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 4:35 pm Subject: Solar Eclipse CD (last remember) HI! Well, tomorrow (monday) I'll send the rest of the Solar Eclipse CDs to everybody who ordered one and sent me their address, too. I ordered the LAST copies available. So: If there's somebody who want to get the last copies (TRUE) - send a order AND PLEASE(!) don't forget your postal address! It helps! ;-) Rainer Some infos about this CD is on: --------------------------------------------------------------------- www.rutka.de/td - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Rudy Russo Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 4:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD/Rush > Glynn Naughton wrote: > > > I used to be a Rush fan years ago. I bought > _Different Stages_ last year > (my first Rush album for donkey's years) and was > bored rigid by the whole > thing. All that Ayn Rand/Apollo and Dionysus stuff > just makes me giggle > these days. I thought DS was their best live album ever...finally, no studio gloss, up-front sound...pretty much a 'live official bootleg.' And I don't think they've done any more 'Ayn Rand/Apollo/Dionysus' songs since the 70s, anyway. Seems you like missed Counterparts :-) > Still, Neil Peart must rate as one of the most > eye-poppingly brilliant virtuosos (on any > instrument) ever to walk the face of the earth. Now you're talking :-) > He even used that 'Iron filings in a washing > machine' sound from 'Catwalk' in the drum solo on > _DS_. Was this a TD original sound that he sampled, > or is it a widely available sound, I wonder? LOL!!! TD hasn't had an 'original sound' in ages!! Part of the reason they haven't done anything good for a long time (except Oasis). Rude __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21788 Re: TD/Rush Christopher Lomas Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB 21792 Re: TD/Rush Gabe Yedid Mon 4/10/2000 3 KB From: 'twosheds' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 6:34 pm Subject: Re: live release wishlist I agree with all your picks, Joe, especially Cleveland '86 (of course! :-) I'd like to see (well, hear) some of the shows from their really early days, like the one where they were opening for a blues band in Bayreuth and got booed off the stage. If anyone has any more info on that show, please pass it along. I don't even know who they were opening for. Some stuff from the Ones would be interesting too. I might also add something from the '78 tour, and maybe from the second leg of the '77 tour. Brussels '80 is a great choice too. All of the shows from the '80 tour just rocked. Scott NP: 'You Enjoy Myself' Phish, Philadelphia, 12/29/96 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21789 Re: Re: live release wishlist Sean Montgomery Sun 4/9/2000 2 KB 21794 Re: Re: live release wishlist joe shoults Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB 21801 Re: Re: live release wishlist Sean Montgomery Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB From: 'Christopher Lomas' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 6:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD/Rush > >So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) I imagine there's a fair few of us out there. I got into Rush long before TD - but it was the polished keyboardy sound of Power Windows / Hold Your Fire era stuff that did it for me. Being an aspiring bass player also made them the essential band to listen to imo. What Geddy can do with those strings still makes me ever so slightly excited and Neil Peart is of course the best drummer in the world ... ever (as they say in all the best/worst compilation album adverts) Curiously I'm just going through a real Rush revisited phase too - haven't listened to them for donkeys years and then had a sudden urge to listen to all their stuff all at once.) Hhm, Permanent Waves beckons Cheers Chris Lomas ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21792 Re: TD/Rush Gabe Yedid Mon 4/10/2000 3 KB From: Sean Montgomery Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: live release wishlist I vote for a 80-81 era show...one with a full live version of Silver Scale, and the great piece that Jerome played on the Electrobeats show (which was played *untangentized*, and seemed to be in fine shape to my ears). This era is among the favourite of many TD fans, and contains a lot of music unavailable on official releases, so there shouldn't be any copyright problems. How much work could it be for Jerome to pull that tape back out and get the whole show on a disk? SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21794 Re: Re: live release wishlist joe shoults Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB 21801 Re: Re: live release wishlist Sean Montgomery Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB From: 'kayleigh' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 9:23 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator - what is it again? Hey there all. Sorry for the question, BUT what am I missing here regards to the poll of the top 25 TD shows? Just curious as I know Joe had mentioned to me in the past that Soundmill is supposed to be totally awesome, BUT nothing in the realm of Napster or anything like that. What is this? What am I missing? I finally found a program that makes Mp3 files directly onto Cds, BUT I don't do much with that kinda stuff, AND anything software based that works with music and recording and anything on your PC, I'm always curious to hear new updates. Anyone? thanks. dan Kayleigh's Playhouse! http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! ICQ# 1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 10:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator - what is it again? Ok, just to reiterate, this is a TANGERINE DREAM discussion list. If you are looking for ways to get TD music for free, please unsubscribe from this list. Comments about Napster and other such programs are reserved for the unmoderated TD list 'tangerinedream@egroups.com'. Soundmill Navigator is a Tangerine Dream release of a 1977 concert. Unfortunately, Edgar has tacked on a fictious 10 minute intro and then played stuff on top of the original material throughout, and it encompasses about half of the concert. This CD became available late last month and I'm assuming it can be found on amazon.com and www.cdnow.com as well as the best source for old TD, www.rpmrecords.com. >From: 'kayleigh' > >Hey there all. Sorry for the question, BUT what am I missing here regards >to >the poll of the top 25 TD shows? Just curious as I know Joe had mentioned >to >me in the past that Soundmill is supposed to be totally awesome, BUT >nothing >in the realm of Napster or anything like that. What is this? What am I >missing? I finally found a program that makes Mp3 files directly onto Cds, >BUT I don't do much with that kinda stuff, AND anything software based that >works with music and recording and anything on your PC, I'm always curious >to hear new updates. > >Anyone? thanks. > >dan > >Kayleigh's Playhouse! >http://www.modempool.com/kayleigh >Crack A Smile - THE Online Poison Mailing List >TheTradingCircle - An Online CDR Trading Network! >ICQ# 1247205 - AOL IM: Tootiehoot2 > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Gabe Yedid Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 11:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD/Rush On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Christopher Lomas wrote: > > > > > >So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) > > I imagine there's a fair few of us out there. > I got into Rush long before TD - but it was the polished keyboardy sound of > Power Windows / Hold Your Fire era stuff that did it for me. Which is not a million miles away from the sound of _Le Parc_, IMO. _Power Windows_ and _Le Parc_ seem to have a number of keyboard textures in common and similar production styles (to my ears)--in particular that female choral patch Edgar loved using up until _Optical Race_--a preset it may be, but it's one of the best ever IMO. I don't know what this sound is called or what synth it comes from...it can be heard on 'The Big Money' and 'Gaudi Park'...and it also forms the top layer of the chords that 'Mothers of Rain' is based around. Gabe From: 'teiwaz _' Date: Sun Apr 9, 2000 11:29 pm Subject: Subject: live release wishlist >Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:16:09 -0400 >From: 'Joe Shoults' Subject: live release wishlist >any more? Music in the Movies--San Francisco December 1986. --teiwaz ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'joe shoults' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 2:53 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: live release wishlist which electrobeats show was this? > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean Montgomery [mailto:sean@t...] > I vote for a 80-81 era show...one with a full live version of Silver > Scale, and the great piece that Jerome played on the Electrobeats show > (which was played *untangentized*, and seemed to be in fine shape to my Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21801 Re: Re: live release wishlist Sean Montgomery Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB From: 'Simon Slator' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 8:39 am Subject: Re: Plus Ca Change > So tell me, am I no longer the only nut who's both into TD and Rush? ;-) No way Derk!! I'm a massive Rush fan!! Simon. 'All the same we take our chances Laughed at by time Hit by circumstances Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose The more that things change - the more it stays the same' ============== Simon Slator Website: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/simon.slator Download my own music at: http://www.mp3.com/simonslatorproject [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Vincent Goudreault Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 1:19 pm Subject: Re: Plus ca change... tadream@egroups.com wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 15:02:41 +0200 > From: Derk > Subject: Plus ca change... > > >From: 'Hermes Guzman' > >Subject: (HUGE post) Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose > (RE:'Tangentizing') > > Either you are a Rush fan, or this is a commonly used phrase. I only know > it from the Rush song Circumstances (from the excellent Hemispheres album), > but maybe Quebecois say it all the time! Nah. We say 'Plus ca change, plus c'est pareil', which is essentially the same thing. And we don't say it that much. C.B.V. Goudreault autonomously breathing since 11:50 AM EST February 17 1957 online 'tadream' since early 1993, TD fan since 1977 first exposure: Stratosfear, fave albums: Rubycon/Ricochet From: olle.rundgren@s... Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 2:02 pm Subject: wishlist for live releases Hi all I would like to add the concert in Royal Albert Hall, London (1975) to the wishlist. If not the whole concert, the first set in its entirety would be fine. Marvellous piece of music. Hej svejs! Olle To Patrik: Jag missade tyvärr programmet igår, men tack för tipset. From: 'Patrik .' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 7:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] wishlist and technical question It would be nice if TD could release something from the autumn of 1980. Maybe Luxembourg (Oct 17) with Silver Scale and that absolutely truly hypnotic sequencer-riff. How was that done? I remember that Sequential Circuits had a sequencer where you could easily change between 8' 16' or 32 bars, thus creating those famous 'rolling' notes. Does anyone recognise this? The Prophet 10 had this feature. Patrik, Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 2:47 pm Subject: Okefenokee update and thanks Hi all, I went to Vic's Saturday for the Okefenokee kick-off. I regret I was unable to attend the actual event, as it promises to be impressive. Marcel and Dave put on quite a show just improvising in Vic's living room. Vic did a great job of hosting, even having a couple raffles for some moderately rare items. I would like to publicly thank Vic Rek for organizing and hosting, and Marcel Engels and Dave Brewer for a very nice impromptu concert in the living room. (Also Vic's mother for a wonderful meal!). To Dave, Jim, Tom, Vic, Marcel, and Roger: I hope you enjoyed your stay in the Okefenokee! James From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 3:26 pm Subject: D:Soundtrack [3 O'clock High] In my opinion, there's some really good cues here (in the TD stuff). If Paul and Edgar could have spent some time fleshing those out into reasonable-length tracks I think there would be some excellent tracks. Also, there are some nice alternate (although short) versions of Love on a Real Train. And since we're here, I really like the Sylvester LeVay stuff. Did LeVay ever put out an Airwolf OST? I had a friend in college who had a boot tape taken right from the pilot movie. I managed to mix two seperate tracks into one extended version of the Airwolf main theme. The sound quality is not superb, as I had to do a little balancing to get a good 'stereo' sound (left channel was very low prior to tweaking). Anyway, I'd love to hear a better version of that stuff somewhere, especially the main theme and the cello piece Hawk plays to the hawk. Anyone with info please respond off-list. 3 O'clock doesn't get much play for me. I always skip the rather cheesy vocal track when I do play it. I do wish it was possible for Edgar and company to get rights to some of this music and take some time to re-record (not tangentize existing clips) some fleshed out versions of the stuff. Now THERE'S a worth-while Hollywood Years project, one which Edgar has already expressed interest in. (In a 1988 interview in Reflex magazine Edgar mentioned arguing with Universal about letting him have some rights to the 'Streethawk' music so that they could re-mix/re-record it into reasonable album formats. Whether he's given up by now is anyone's guess.) James From: Sean Montgomery Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 4:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: live release wishlist > which electrobeats show was this? Early in 1998, Jerome played DJ on Electrobeats for four hours, spinning both TD and non TD music. The third hour was the highlight though, because that's when he played a bunch of TD rarities, including a cut from the unreleased 1990 soundtrack Mandala, a demo version of a track from Goblin's Club that I like better than the final version, and a bunch of concert material. Definitely worth a listen, that one! SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 5:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: live release wishlist EXCELLENT CHOICE Sean! Hear, Hear! > -----Original Message----- > I vote for a 80-81 era show...one with a full live version of Silver > Scale, and the great piece that Jerome played on the Electrobeats show > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21803 Re: Re: live release wishlist tom807@a... Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB From: tom807@a... Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 5:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: live release wishlist This is a pointless exercise. Of course I would like every show that is available as a soundboard recording to be officially released. The Grateful Dead has been doing it, why not TD? Because Edgar would surely ruin each and every one with his Tangent-ization. -- Tom http://www.mp3.com/tom807 From: 'Gary Jenkins' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 5:28 pm Subject: Seven letters from Tibbet HI TD fans first time on this,can anybody tell me what seven letters from tibbett is going to be? I Have been a fan since 1980,in my opinion still the greatest band in universe. one more point anybody got any views on Arcane's new album and the simalarities to 80's TD. From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 5:31 pm Subject: Electrobeats (was: live release wishlist ) Feb 1st 1998, 3:00 to 4:00 am. Jerome was the special guest and played a lot of good stuff. Here's the list: 1. 4:09 On Cranes Passage (Demo-Version) 1996 2. 10:27 Ride on the Ray (Live Brighton, Guitar-Part) 1986 (Regardless of Jerome's comments, this is really an untitled track that was LOOSELY based on Ride on the Ray that Franke released as 'Vermillion Sands'. Ride on the Ray was played later in the concert as I recall.) 3. 3:43 Legend 'Leftover' (Live Brighton) 1986 4 4:49 Mandala (OST) 1990 5. 3:07 Unicorn Theme (Vocal by Susanne Pawlitzki) 1985 (The Lyrics here are actually a poem by William Blake) 6. 12:17 Girl on the Stairs/Thief Yang and the Tangram Seal 1997 7. 8:40 Live Dresden, Hygienemuseum 1980 (Jerome says this is from 1983, but I think it's actually 1980.) > -----Original Message----- > From: joe shoults [SMTP:shoults@s...] > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2000 9:54 PM > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: live release wishlist > > which electrobeats show was this? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sean Montgomery [mailto:sean@t...] > > > I vote for a 80-81 era show...one with a full live version of Silver > > Scale, and the great piece that Jerome played on the Electrobeats show > > (which was played *untangentized*, and seemed to be in fine shape to my > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > LOW RATE, NO WAIT! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates > as low as 2.9% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Learn more at: > http://click.egroups.com/1/937/3/_/24785/_/955342444/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21817 Re: Electrobeats (was: live release wishlist ) Gabe Yedid Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB From: horrod6 Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 7:19 pm Subject: Plus ca change - pedant's corner Before we got diverted onto a discussion of Rush's music, the question was 'where does the phrase 'plus ca change....' come from?' Well, I thought I knew - it's a really famous french quote, and it's certainly been around longer than Rush, so it must be from some really famous french person, like Napoleon or Flaubert, right? Wrong. I looked it up in my dictionary of quotations. It comes from something (a novel, I presume) called 'Les Guepes' (there's an acute accent over the first e, but I can't reproduce that - apologies to Francophones), which was written by Jean Baptiste Alphonse Karr, a 19th century french novelist. Just because I haven't heard of him doesn't mean he's not famous, of course - maybe all you French and French-Canadian list members have been sniggering away ever since the question was raised, at the ignorance of the rest of us! Incidentally, the dictionary has one other quote by the same chap, which I thought was quite a neat encapsulation of one side of the argument - 'If it is intended to abolish the death penalty in this case, let the gentlemen who do the murders take the first step.' LnH Marion From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 8:18 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Electrobeats What is this 'Mandala'? I don't see it at imdb.com. joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James E > Subject: [tadream] Electrobeats (was: live release wishlist ) ... > 4 4:49 Mandala (OST) > 1990 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21808 Re: Electrobeats Owens, James E Mon 4/10/2000 3 KB 21809 Re: Electrobeats Sean Montgomery Mon 4/10/2000 2 KB From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 8:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Electrobeats I didn't know it was a soundtrack.... I will check the translation of the conversations on the show to see if it says... James > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Shoults [SMTP:joes@c...] > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 3:19 PM > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] Electrobeats > > What is this 'Mandala'? I don't see it at imdb.com. > > joe > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Owens, James E > > Subject: [tadream] Electrobeats (was: live release wishlist ) > ... > > 4 4:49 Mandala (OST) > > 1990 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Now the best and coolest websites come right to you based on your > unique interests. eTour.com is surfing without searching. > And, it's FREE! > http://click.egroups.com/1/3013/3/_/24785/_/955397591/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > From: Sean Montgomery Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 8:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Electrobeats > What is this 'Mandala'? I don't see it at imdb.com. That's because it has yet to be released. Mandala was a minseries shown on Japanese TV. SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 8:26 pm Subject: 'Red Heat' = 'Fighting Force' Hi all, Just saw an ad on e-bay for the movie 'Fighting Force'. It is evidently the same as 'Red Heat' with Linda Blair heading the cast. IMDB doesn't list it with that alternate title, but evidently that's the title on the video for sale. For those that don't know, TD did the soundtrack to this 'women-in-prison' flick. At least this one has the twist of Blair being mistakenly put into an East-German prison. I've never seen this particular film though, so I can't say that's actually a redeeming quality. James Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21815 Re: 'Red Heat' = 'Fighting Force' Jim Moore Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 9:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Seven letters from Tibbet Hi Gary- It's nice to hear (read) some fresh enthusiasm! We have several Arcane listeners here, so you'll probably get some good feedback on that. As for the Tibetan thing, it's probably just an itch in Edgar's pants right now, and apparently not on the radar screen. 2 months ago, TDI said: >> - June 2nd (streetdate): Antique Dreams (rare vinyls plus yet unreleased >> material from ´70 - ´80) >> - end of August: Seven Letters from Tibet >> - late September: Dream Mixes III But on TDI's 'Coming Soon' list, they have: > Antique Dreams > Originally slated for release June 2, it has now been pushed back to 'Summer 2000'. > ('AD will contain rare and unreleased material from the T.D. decades 1970 - 1982') > Star Trooper > ('ST will show TD with a classical edge, featuring the music of: Skrjabin, Mozart, Haydn, Bach, Albinoni') > Twilight Folder > ('TF will contain rare and unreleased material from the T.D. decades 1983 - 1997') ...but no mention of 7LFT. The thing about release dates is that they can always change, depending on many factors. Supppose somebody threw big bucks at them to do a soundtrack; I'll bet projects in progress go (and have gone many times, I assume) to the backburner in a flash. I don't know what this 'Tibetan Cycle' thing is, though. I guess there was some mention of it on a version of the Quinoa album, but I don't have it. Welcome aboard! joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Jenkins [mailto:hyperborea@c...] > HI TD fans first time on this,can anybody tell me what seven letters > from tibbett is going to be? > I Have been a fan since 1980,in my opinion still the greatest band > in universe. > one more point anybody got any views on Arcane's new album and the > simalarities to 80's TD. From: Fredrik Sundström Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:13 pm Subject: [tadream] Discography Hi! I wonder if anybody has a complete (inofficial) discography of TD, and when I mean complete, I mean list of EVERYTHING that has been released that´s got something to do with TD and with all the details. A list just like the list that Dave Datta did once, but unfortunately did not contiue. I have seen alot of very nice lists on the web with pictures, but nothing that lists every release of each Album, Soundtrack, Single etc. Fredrik Göteborg, Sweden Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21816 Re: Discography John Marchington Tue 4/11/2000 3 KB 21826 Re: Discography Joe Shoults Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB From: 'Nick Adams' Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Arcane > one more point anybody got any views on Arcane's new album and the > simalarities to 80's TD. Hi Gary, Welcome aboard..........Arcanes new album,''Future Wreck'' is absolutely brilliant imo, if you have the first one entitled ''Gather Darkness'' and you liked it, then you will surely like this one. my personal opinion would be that FW is actually better than the first one, Musically, there are some real catchy melodies along with some great sequencing, and would probably best describe TD's period from 1980 to about 84. In fact this is what TD should be doing now imho. Nick NP Eloy / Colours Home Nicad@c... Work Nick.Adams@p... From: tom807@a... Date: Mon Apr 10, 2000 11:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Red Heat' = 'Fighting Force' In a message dated 4/10/00 4:28:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, james.e.owens@b... writes: > Hi all, > > Just saw an ad on e-bay for the movie 'Fighting Force'. It is evidently the > same as 'Red Heat' with Linda Blair heading the cast. IMDB doesn't list it > with that alternate title, but evidently that's the title on the video for > sale. > > For those that don't know, TD did the soundtrack to this 'women-in-prison' > flick. At least this one has the twist of Blair being mistakenly put into > an East-German prison. I've never seen this particular film though, so I > can't say that's actually a redeeming quality. It's only redeeming quality is that TD does the soundtrack. Although, there is a lesbian rape scene with Linda Blair, if that's important. -- Tom http://www.mp3.com/tom807 From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 12:15 am Subject: RE: [tadream] 'Red Heat' = 'Fighting Force' >From: Owens, James E [mailto:james.e.owens@b...] >I've never seen this particular film though, so I >can't say that's actually a redeeming quality. I saw it in Vic's collection Saturday night... - jim From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 1:36 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Discography I've been after such a list myself, but I'd like to see it in chronological order, starting (obviously) with 'Electronic Meditation' (or earlier, if such releases exist) and working through. I'd like it to include all the bootlegs as well, but that might create a problem in that dates for those releases are not always made available. I guess the record companies involved would know, but that sort of investigation would mean a lot of work for someone keen enough. I'd like it so that I can put my TD collection in the right order! ----- Original Message ----- From: Fredrik Sundström To: Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2000 10:13 Subject: [tadream] Discography Hi! I wonder if anybody has a complete (inofficial) discography of TD, and when I mean complete, I mean list of EVERYTHING that has been released that´s got something to do with TD and with all the details. A list just like the list that Dave Datta did once, but unfortunately did not contiue. I have seen alot of very nice lists on the web with pictures, but nothing that lists every release of each Album, Soundtrack, Single etc. Fredrik Göteborg, Sweden ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get paid for the stuff you know! Get answers for the stuff you don't. And get $10 to spend on the site! http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/3/_/24785/_/955404818/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... Website: http://www.tadream.net From: Gabe Yedid Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 2:44 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Electrobeats (was: live release wishlist ) On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Owens, James E wrote: > 7. 8:40 Live Dresden, Hygienemuseum 1980 > (Jerome says this is from 1983, but I think it's actually 1980.) Well, does it sound more like _Poland_ or like _Tangram_ and _Thief_? TD did indeed play the Hygienemuseum in '83, and the concert was basically a warmup for the Warsaw shows. Gabe From: 'Feldon Feldon' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 5:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Electrobeats (was: live release wishlist ) >From: Gabe Yedid > >On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Owens, James E wrote: > > > 7. 8:40 Live Dresden, Hygienemuseum 1980 > > (Jerome says this is from 1983, but I think it's actually >1980.) > >Well, does it sound more like _Poland_ or like _Tangram_ and _Thief_? >TD did indeed play the Hygienemuseum in '83, and the concert was basically >a warmup for the Warsaw shows. I have this Hygienemuseum 83 clip from Electrobeats as an mp# (gasp!) and it is almost identical to: Paris Bataclan Palace, 02.02.81 'Antennenwald' from Sea of Dreams disc 4. Hope that helps. -Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Chris Richards Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 8:04 am Subject: What's everyone been listening to? I know a lot of us have been listening to Soundmill Navigator, but what else have we had on lately? My playlist is as follows: Tangerine Dream: Various German radio broadcasts from 71-73, Ponts De Ce 73, Melbourne 75, Cleveland 77. Black Sabbath: Paranoid, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, Sabotage, Technical Ecstacy and Live At Last Gov't Mule: Live...With A Little Help From Our Friends Blue Öyster Cult: On Your Knees Or On Your Feet Boston: Greatest Hits NP: Ash Ra Tempel London 4-2-00 ;-) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21822 Re: What's everyone been listening to? Simon Slator Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21827 Re: What's everyone been listening to? Glynn Naughton Tue 4/11/2000 3 KB 21855 Re: What's everyone been listening to? Yensen, Stephen Wed 4/12/2000 3 KB 21864 Re: What's everyone been listening to? Carlos A. Martinez Wed 4/12/2000 2 KB 21891 Re: What's everyone been listening to? Armin Theissen Thu 4/13/2000 2 KB 21922 What's everyone been listening to? Steven Fri 4/14/2000 2 KB From: Chris Richards Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:24 am Subject: Re: Pink Floyd (Off topic) <>> Well, you should have siad something! I've had a bootleg of one of the Nassau Coliseum shows for a couple years now! I could have supplied you with a copy (though I somehow suspect you're not in a NTSC viewing country). So, what was the quality of the footage they showed like? NP: Blue Öyster Cult 'ME 262/The Five Guitars' (On Your Feet Or On Your Knees) ===== May you never thirst! The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris 'Heaven can always turn around'-Eiffel 65 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 8:17 am Subject: Re: [tadream] What's everyone been listening to? I've been into Cosmic Hoffman - Beyond the Galaxy (great spacemusic with an early German dark flavor) TD - Stratosfear (always.) KS - Mirage (always) and since we're going to add music 'outside the box' so to speak Steely Dan - Two against Nature Ambrosia - 1st album (seriously... great prog/pop) Euphoria - (Ambient with acoustic blues guitar...) Beck - Mutations (listen to it for 'Nobody's Fault' alone...) Plush - More you becomes you (stoned, very stoned, but magical) Poly Paul Ellis / Secret Fire Music Synthhtnys@a... New solo album: Appears to Vanish Now available @ www.neuharm.demon.co.uk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21824 Re: What's everyone been listening to? jowers Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21854 Re: What's everyone been listening to? quarlie@a... Wed 4/12/2000 2 KB 21867 Re: What's everyone been listening to? Gustavo Jobim Wed 4/12/2000 2 KB 21868 Re: What's everyone been listening to? Gabe Yedid Wed 4/12/2000 2 KB 21921 Re: What's everyone been listening to? aoutland@a... Fri 4/14/2000 2 KB From: 'Simon Slator' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 8:58 am Subject: Re: What's everyone been listening to? > Steely Dan - Two against Nature 'Two Against Nature' is a cool album - very laid back yet remarkably interesting! I've been listening to the following this past week: Tangerine Dream - 'Pergamon' Tangerine Dream - 'Stratosfear' Enigma - 'MCMXC a.d' Enigma - 'Le Roi Est Mort - Vive Le Roi!' Alliance - 'Missing Piece' Alan Parsons - 'The Time Machine' Kansas - 'Definitive Collection' Jeff Beck - 'Who Else!' Foreigner - 'Agent Provocateur' and Bob & Doug McKenzie - 'Great White North' ============== Simon Slator Website: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/simon.slator Download my own music at: http://www.mp3.com/simonslatorproject [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Patrik .' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 3:44 pm Subject: [tadream] Re: What's everyone been listening to? Pergamon - the piano intro. Logos - the very last part, just before Dominion. Poland - Tangent, the part taken from Soldier. Jeff Beck - Who else! Sting - Brand New Day Flowerkings - Alive on Planet Earth J.S Bach - various organ music ---------- Patrik , Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21863 Re: Re: What's everyone been listening to? Phil White Wed 4/12/2000 2 KB 21870 Re: Re: What's everyone been listening to? Joe Shoults Wed 4/12/2000 2 KB 21871 Re: Re: What's everyone been listening to? Owens, James E Wed 4/12/2000 3 KB 21872 Re: Re: What's everyone been listening to? Sean Montgomery Wed 4/12/2000 2 KB 21881 Re: Re: What's everyone been listening to? Synthhtnys@a... Thu 4/13/2000 2 KB 21898 Re: Re: What's everyone been listening to? Joe Shoults Thu 4/13/2000 4 KB 21899 Re: Re: What's everyone been listening to? Joe Shoults Thu 4/13/2000 2 KB From: jowers Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] What's everyone been listening to? In no particular order this week: ======================= Madonna - Ray of Light Zeppelin - Deep Striker Rush - Exit...Stage Right Rush - Practice Makes Perfect Marillion - Misplaced Childhood TD - Ruby in the Sky TD - High Voltage Live TD - Electrobeats Floyd - Animals Sabbath - Cannabis Confusion From: Wouter Bessels Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 1:54 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator.....my opinion Hi tadreamers ! < as usual from deep lurking mode....but I'm still around ! > Today I received Soundmill Navigator and Tang Go from Groove Unlimited. I immediately put SN in my player.....and indeed it is heavily tangentized, but compared to Sohoman, it has been done in a 'vintage' way, but I found the continuous psst...psst...psst sound VERY irritating (I wonder if this is not a remastering error ??!!). It is totally out of sequence with the bubbling moog sequence in the background. Edgar & Jerome, come on, get a better 'remastering' life !! And the applause at the end was badly edited...not even into the last tones, but after the last tones with some silence inbetween ! It has already been discussed a lot, why TDI announced that it was completely original material, but this really put me down after hearing SN. Just my opinion ! Cheers, Wouter From: 'Joe Shoults' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 4:05 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Discography I haven't visited them all in a while to know how complete/up-to-date they are, but several are at http://www.tadream.net/showcase.htm (the 'Members' Sites' section) joe note: if you have a TD-related site/page that you would like displayed, just e-mail me offlist and I'll add it. > -----Original Message----- > From: John Marchington [mailto:johnm@p...] > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:37 PM > To: tadream@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] Discography > > > I've been after such a list myself, but I'd like to see it in ... > I'd like it so that I can put my TD collection in the right order! > ... > I wonder if anybody has a complete (inofficial) discography > of TD, and when From: 'Glynn Naughton' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 4:39 pm Subject: RE: What's everyone been listening to? Hmm...Stevie Ray Vaughan (_In Step_), but principally, the last few days, _The Pet Sounds Sessions_ box. I discovered _Pet Sounds_ last year and it was one of those rare paradigm-shifting experiences that comes along only a few times in a lifetime. Everyone thinks of The Beach Boys as a vocal group, but the arrangements on this thing are incredible. Actually, the instrumentation is very similar to that employed by serialists (all plinky, plonky, quick-attack instruments like mandolins, glockenspiels and bicycle bells). There are almost no drum parts in the traditional pop sense. If Boulez wrote pop songs, this is what they would sound like. It's absolutely different from anything else that I've ever heard in rock music, and it proves that you don't need huge machines with banks of blinking lights to explore new sounds :-) The harmonies are incredible, and the singing...well, we all know about that. Brian Wilson, is, IMO, the only rock/pop composer who can stand comparison with the old-time greats like Gershwin and Cole Porter. Everyone should have a copy of this record! Glynn From: 'Glynn Naughton' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 4:41 pm Subject: RE; What's everyone been listening to? Hmm...Stevie Ray Vaughan (_In Step_), but principally, the last few days, _The Pet Sounds Sessions_ box. I discovered _Pet Sounds_ last year and it was one of those rare paradigm-shifting experiences that comes along only a few times in a lifetime. Everyone thinks of The Beach Boys as a vocal group, but the arrangements on this thing are incredible. Actually, the instrumentation is very similar to that employed by serialists (all plinky, plonky, quick-attack instruments like mandolins, glockenspiels and bicycle bells). There are almost no drum parts in the traditional pop sense. If Boulez wrote pop songs, this is what they would sound like. It's absolutely different from anything else that I've ever heard in rock music, and it proves that you don't need huge machines with banks of blinking lights to explore new sounds :-) The harmonies are incredible, and the singing...well, we all know about that. Brian Wilson, is, IMO, the only rock/pop composer who can stand comparison with the old-time greats like Gershwin and Cole Porter. Everyone should have a copy of this record! Glynn From: 'Jared White' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 5:04 pm Subject: OT: Future Wreak soundclips? Hi, folks, I'm trying to find some soundclips of Arcane's Future Wreak on the Net. Just a few RealAudio or MP3 segments would do, but I can't find anything anywhere! Does Arcane even have a Web site? I can't find that either! The only people that seem to carry Arcane are the usual suspects: Groove and SMD. Anybody in the US? Amazon and CDNow don't have it, so I assume it would have to be a special import.... I'm dying to hear what everyone's raving about! :) Regards, Jared __________________________________________ Jared White E-mail: jwhite@g... GaelDesign: http://www.gaeldesign.com The Digital Fine Art Gallery: http://www.gaeldesign.com/gallery Distant Oaks (Celtic Music Ensemble): http://www.distantoaks.com Personal Site: http://www.sonic.net/~jwhite Try BeOS Today! http://www.be.com From: 'Gary Jenkins' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 5:24 pm Subject: re.what's every one's been listening to just a short list this week. Encore-TD Great wall of China Gather Darkness-Arcane Future Wreck-Arcane excellent cd SMD Demo cd Harmonized including tracks by Asana,Under the Dome and the excellent Paul Nagle. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21832 Re: re.what's every one's been listening to Sean Montgomery Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB From: Michael V Miller Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 4:58 pm Subject: Soundmill Navigator Hi all again, I still keep reading about this noise on SN and I have now played it on 4 different cd players (a boom box cd player, my computer's dvd-rom, a portable cd discman and my car's cd player. I still can't hear this sound. Am I the only one? Is it that I got a good cd or is it that I am unable to hear this sound? I am looking forward to when they release more of their '70's era music. Mike 'The LORD said to me that He loved me. I asked 'How much?' He said, 'This much.' and stretched out His arms and died on a cross for me.' May you experience the Love of Christ. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. 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ID Date Size 21833 Re: Soundmill Navigator Sean Montgomery Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21954 Re: Soundmill Navigator Lawry Simm Fri 4/14/2000 2 KB 23469 Soundmill Navigator Matthew Sawyer Wed 8/2/2000 2 KB 23470 Re: Soundmill Navigator Sean Harvey Wed 8/2/2000 3 KB 23471 Re: Soundmill Navigator Steve Wed 8/2/2000 2 KB 23478 Re: Soundmill Navigator Michael A Jean Thu 8/3/2000 3 KB 23473 Re: Soundmill Navigator Matthew Sawyer Wed 8/2/2000 3 KB 23476 Re: Soundmill Navigator Steve Thu 8/3/2000 4 KB 23474 Re: Soundmill Navigator Feldon Feldon Thu 8/3/2000 4 KB From: Sean Montgomery Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 5:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] re.what's every one's been listening to Of late, I've been primarily occupied with burning compilation CDs of 80s and 90s pop music, but these are some recent releases that I've been listening to: Saint Etienne - 'Heart Failed', from the forthcoming 'Sound of Water' album Bowery Electric 'Lushlife' Euphoria - 'Euphoria' 'The Beach' soundtrack Laika - 'Good Looking Blues' Sneakster - 'fifty-fifty' SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: Sean Montgomery Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 5:32 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator > I still keep reading about this noise on SN and I have now played it on 4 > different cd players (a boom box cd player, my computer's dvd-rom, a > portable cd discman and my car's cd player. I still can't hear this > sound. Am I the only one? Is it that I got a good cd or is it that I am > unable to hear this sound? Perhaps TDI released two versions, to keep the collectors happy. ;-) SEAN MONTGOMERY Animator T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator From: 'Sean Montgomery' > Perhaps TDI released two versions, to keep the collectors happy. ;-) Collectors are never happy... :) - jim Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21835 Re: Soundmill Navigator Jim Moore Tue 4/11/2000 2 KB 21836 Re: Soundmill Navigator Owens, James E Tue 4/11/2000 3 KB 21837 Re: Soundmill Navigator Owens, James E Tue 4/11/2000 3 KB From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator From: 'Michael V Miller' > I still keep reading about this noise on SN and I have now played it on 4 > different cd players (a boom box cd player, my computer's dvd-rom, a > portable cd discman and my car's cd player. I still can't hear this > sound. Am I the only one? Is it that I got a good cd or is it that I am > unable to hear this sound? Can I trade CD's with you? I can hear it on both my home system (very noticable) and car CD-player (almost as bad). Playing it here at work, it isn't too bad, so it must have something to do with the quality of speakers... - jim From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:32 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator Jim wrote: 'Collectors are never happy... :)' Not entirely true, but close.... We could barely hear the tst, tst, tst sound on Vic's stereo, but it is there if you listen REAL hard. It DEFINITELY sounds like digital noise. I had another CD with a nasty sound very similar to this that turned out to be a mispressing in the CD. Maybe the glass master got slightly malformed and this error was replicated to all the discs. One way or the other, I find it hard to believe that the sound could be from the original tape. It is most definitely a digital sound. James From: 'Owens, James E' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Soundmill Navigator Jim, If it truly is a digital sound, then systems with higher amounts of oversampling or digital noise filtering might compensate for it. That could explain why it was barely noticeable on Vic's stereo, but highly annoying on your players. James > -----Original Message----- > > I still keep reading about this noise on SN and I have now played it on > 4 > > different cd players (a boom box cd player, my computer's dvd-rom, a > > portable cd discman and my car's cd player. I still can't hear this > > sound. Am I the only one? Is it that I got a good cd or is it that I > am > > unable to hear this sound? > > Can I trade CD's with you? I can hear it on both my home system (very > noticable) and car CD-player (almost as bad). Playing it here at work, it > isn't too bad, so it must have something to do with the quality of > speakers... > > - jim > From: 'DEREK LAING' Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] re.what's every one's been listening to Hi Everyone I'm new to this list, I live in Perth, Scotland, though i'm actually a fifer, originally from Dunfermline. My recent playlist is; Tangram - TD Poland - TD Livemiles - TD The Songs of Distant Earth - Mike Oldfield Coming of Age - Camel The Secret Language of Birds - Ian Anderson Dot Com - Jethro Tull Chronicles - Eloy Cheers for now Derek ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Jenkins To: Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 6:24 PM Subject: [tadream] re.what's every one's been listening to > just a short list this week. > Encore-TD > Great wall of China > Gather Darkness-Arcane > Future Wreck-Arcane excellent cd > SMD Demo cd Harmonized including tracks by Asana,Under the Dome and > the excellent Paul Nagle. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Calling all Jazz fans. Check out DownBeatJazz.com's Digital Downloads > section where you can download free mp3s. If you're a musician, upload > your songs to DownBeatJazz.com for a chance to get reviewed by Down > Beat Editors! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2142/3/_/24785/_/955473862/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > PLEASE EDIT UNNECESSARY TEXT FROM YOUR MESSAGES. > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@o... > Website: http://www.tadream.net > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 21856 Re: re.what's every one's been listening to craig.cordrey@g... Wed 4/12/2000 3 KB From: Wouter Bessels Date: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:48 pm Subject: 'The Dream Seems To Be Not Always The Same' At 14:48 11-4-00 -0400, Gabe Yedid wrote: >The simple answer is because Martin Kay doesn't know any better. >He couldn't tell that it had been Tangentized, and was obviously not >informed. Why not ? So virtually everybody from everywhere can work at TDI, because they won't inform anybody or show interest in them ? >To me, that speaks volumes about what kind of an operation TDI really is, >and what they look for in their employees. Good point. But not very good for something that is called 'Tangerine Dream'. 'The Dream Seems To Be Not Always The Same' Cheers, Wouter