From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading I think this pretty much sums it up. Martin Kasprzak pretty much has explained the law, the feelings, and the do(s) and don't(s). If we follow this, we might not get in too much trouble. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading From: Franklin Smythe Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: Must reply to Martin's post Upon reading Martin's post on bootlegs, I must take this opportunity to make a few comments. The subject of bootlegs is so often debated among music circles, and I hope this doesn't make readers groan too loudly, but since I've got the attention of an official voice... I too do not condone anyone making profit off of anyone else's work. Bootlegs are of course illegal, and I agree that even those bootleggers with the purest of intentions just to make the music available to fans should not be considered above the law. However... Such bootlegs would not even exist if there were not a market demand left unfulfilled by the official source. Given the choice between a bootleg of unknown origin and an official concert release, I can't imagine any fan preferring the bootleg. (Assuming the official release is a 'true' recording faithful to the original performance, that is: sorry, but you have to throw in that caveat when talking about TD nowadays.) Surely a band like Tangerine Dream recognizes that its fan base is composed mostly of voracious collectors who want every piece of music ever played. The audience for this material is already out there. Given that, one must ask why so much of TD's concert material is lacking in official releases. So often fans are left only with excuses from the various parties (too many legal problems, the record company won't allow it, all the studio-record material is owned by someone else, the publisher holds the rights until the year 3000, there isn't time to produce a record, etc.). Those reasons may each be important to one party or another, but the end result is still the same: the fans have no opportunity to buy a recording. Where else to turn but the bootleggers, who are not bogged down by all the seemingly insurmountable obstacles the 'official' parties have to contend with. Sure, the quality usually stinks, the prices often exorbitant, business practices highly suspect, but the true fan's only alternative is... having nothing at all. Now, I'm far from an expert on the all legal issues and red tape in the music industry. I'm sure it's downright exasperating at times. But I have to believe that if TD truly wanted to release a series of live concert records which could genuinely put the bootlegs off the map (say, one complete unretouched recording from each of its concert tours), it couldn't possibly be so unthinkably complex as to be unapproachable. To this outsider anyway, there seems to be plenty of precedent on TDI's existing releases to suggest that such a project is viable. There are many examples on 'I-Box' alone of material supposedly still 'owned' by other parties: the 1986 performance of 'Pilots of Purple Twilight' (Virgin), the material from 'Pinnacles' on the Perth recording (also Virgin), 'Unicorn Saga' (Universal), all the live stuff from the Private years, and others. I don't understand why the same principle which allows such things to be released in small little snippets could not be applied to a full-scale complete concert recording. If TD were finally able to make these recordings available on the up-and-up to the fans who want them, I don't think even a single fan would have the slightest quarrel with pursuing bootleggers to the ends of the earth. Until that time, though, the sad reality is that bootleggers provide a service that the official channels are either unwilling or unable to offer. I completely agree that the money is going into the wrong pockets, but if the audience is so willing to spend, why are the sources seemingly so unwilling to provide? FTS From: atye@a... Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 7:38 pm Subject: Re: FTS's post Thanks for the post FTS... I think you have put into words what SO many people are actually thinking. It seems that a LOT of bands today realize the benefits of providing their fans with what the fans are looking for, but with the proceeds going to the band, not unscrupulous bootleggers. The fan gets the recording regardless, so it's really a matter of quality and where the money ends up. This is also frustrating to the fans. Take a look at the USA rock band Pearl Jam. They have released a set of 20-30 (maybe more) 'official bootlegs' of live shows from their 2000 tour. The CD's come in a plain cardboard sleeve and are priced at the normal rate for CD's here in the USA (about $12-14) and are easily available at any CD retailer. I have also seen where Deep Purple has released a couple of box sets of live and unreleased recordings, as have Emerson, Lake, and Palmer and several other bands. There is of course a market for this in the Tangerine Dream realm. Like you said, the bootleggers wouldn't be in business w/o a demand for the product. I hope that maybe one day the band could start some sort of program to release old shows to the fans, even if it was only on the website. Like you said, if there's a will, there's a way. In today's digital age, anything is possible in this area. Also, thanks to Martin for a clarification on the issue of honest, true fans trading only for the pleasure of hearing the best music. This is the way most people are, I have met many great friends around the world through trading music and look forward to meeting even more. Thanks, and a Happy New Year to all... ATYE By the way.....how much is 60 Euro's in $US anyway ?? :-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 7:46 pm Subject: Subject: Must reply to Martin's post of course there's alway frank zappa's beat-the-bootleggers series. He released the bootleggers bootlegs at normal release prices--bad quality and all. --T _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: tangram12@a... Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 8:50 pm Subject: website update hi everyone my post did not seem to get through so here it is again i have updated my website for the 1st time this year, please checkout my wants section, maybe there is something you have that i need ;-) please contact me offlist if you can help me thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'tangram12' Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 8:26 pm Subject: web site updated hi everyone i have just updated my website for the first time this year. please check out my wants section there may be something on there that you can help me out with :-). Duncan tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 12:31 am Subject: Re: ice cream Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, I actually held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. It disappeared off the shelves shortly afterwards and has never been seen again. 8-) Dell As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31008 Re: ice cream odean@m... Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB 31010 Re: ice cream Michael Fox Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB 31015 Re: ice cream Michael A Jean Fri 1/4/2002 3 KB From: odean@m... Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: ice cream At 07:31 PM 1/3/02 -0500, you wrote: >Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, I actually >held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. Heehee, one part of that message sounds REALLY familiar for some reason! Did this happen in 1983? :-) From: quarlie@a... Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:46 am Subject: Re: Pearl Jam official bootlegs In a message dated 1/3/02 2:51:41 PM, atye@a... writes: >Take a look at the USA rock band Pearl Jam. They have released a set >of 20-30 (maybe more) 'official bootlegs' of live shows from their 2000 >tour. Way more, actually--71 by my count. I think they released one for each show on the tour. Imagine if TD had 71 live albums! --Daniel NP: Statemachine - Breakdown Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31013 Re: Pearl Jam official bootlegs braddito Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: ice cream At 07:31 PM 01/03/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, I actually >held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. It was called 'The Keep' Ice Cream here in the midwest USA. Mike From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 9:07 am Subject: Re: Copies for friends and relatives --- John Vertical wrote: > And Infection, I'm glad to know that! Because > there's quite few artists bot > me and my father like (including TD) we'd both like > to keep copies of > certain records. So when I'm moving away (BTW, do > you still live with your > parents?) neither is going to have to buy dozens of > favourite albums again. Yeah, well Jussila copied almost all albums from my TD collection to MD and he explained this to me. Lucky bastard I say! And yes, I still live with my parents... it's much cheaper that way. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 10:40 am Subject: Florian Fricke I just heard from the local radioprogram that Florian Fricke has died last saturday. They played the last 20 minutes his stuff, which seemed pretty good. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: 'braddito' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 10:50 am Subject: Re: Pearl Jam official bootlegs > Imagine if TD had 71 live albums! > > --Daniel > NP: Statemachine - Breakdown I can also imagine my bank balance and the subsequent divorce procedings ! Toby From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 11:09 am Subject: Tickets 1983 Magdeburg Hi all, on the Johannes Schmoelling website: www.johannesschmoelling.de you can found two very rare Ticket scans from a TD tour 1983 in the German Democratic Republic at Magdeburg. This city is 25 km of my residence removes. Very cool stuff. This is first time which I something from these mystirious GDR Tour sees. Up to now me only Dresden concert is well-known. Regards heiko www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de Bestellen Sie hier Ihre kostenlose head & shoulders Produktprobe - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/ppc?109446C254962016 D2 Vodafone CallYa - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?86795C1493809712 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 12:07 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: ice cream I bought it and may have even saved the carton somewhere...It was kind of like orange sherbet... > -----Original Message----- > From: Adele Outland [mailto:outlanda60@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:31 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: ice cream > > > Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, > I actually > held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. It disappeared off the > shelves shortly afterwards and has never been seen again. 8-) Dell > > As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Scott' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:07 pm Subject: Re: TD foods It's not really a food, but I noticed in the Internet Movie Database that there is a porn star who goes by the name Tangerine Dream... Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31018 Re: TD foods Owens, James Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB From: 'Scott' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:23 pm Subject: Re: Martin's Post >Surely a band like Tangerine Dream recognizes that its fan base is composed mostly of voracious collectors >who want every piece of music ever played. The audience for this material is already out there. Given that, >one must ask why so much of TD's concert material is lacking in official releases. So often fans are left only >with excuses from the various parties (too many legal problems, the record company won't allow it, all the >studio-record material is owned by someone else, the publisher holds the rights until the year 3000, there >isn't time to produce a record, etc.). Those reasons may each be important to one party or another, but the >end result is still the same: the fans have no opportunity to buy a recording. I can't imagine anyone but TD owning the rights to the recordings of their all-improvised shows, since those never appeared in a published form, unless Virgin by contract also owned the rights to all their performances as well. That would have been horrible, and I can't see a business hawk like Edgar signing a contract that had that clause in it. What I'd like to see it TD put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more interesting shows from over the years, complete and unedited. The Grateful Dead started it, then Phish and Pearl Jam followed suit, and now moe. is starting a live series too. Their series is called 'Warts and All,' referring to the imperfect nature of live shows and how the series shows them not cleaned up for release. I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31041 Re: Martin's Post E Neal Frost Sat 1/5/2002 3 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:26 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: TD foods Someone has posted the URL to her site some time back. My wife and I got a good laugh out of it. Evidently she's a stripper in Canada and has done some porn. She's got a few pics on her site (more if you pay, I'm sure), and just judging from her pics it looks like she may have been around doing her business before Edgar started his business... (actually she's probably not that old, but her skin's all wrinkly - too many tanning beds...) James > -----Original Message----- > > It's not really a food, but I noticed in the Internet Movie > Database that > there is a porn star who goes by the name Tangerine Dream... > > Scott From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:29 pm Subject: KB for Tape Archivist I second the nomination! > -----Original Message----- > What I'd like to see is TD > put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more > interesting shows from over the years, complete and unedited. [...] > I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! > > Scott From: ANGELES LAVIN Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] UNCOVERED TD LIVE SPAIN (BILBAO 31-1-1976) --- Gert Jalass escribió: > Hi, > > I would be interested in getting a copy. > > All modern methods of payment ( e.g. transfer to a > 'EU' bank account ) are > an option. Hello Gert, Well, I can swap the double CD-R for 2 of the next items: (Only in CD format, mint-excellent condition) PETER BANKS: Two Sides of Peter Banks (1973, USA only) ALAN WHITE: Ramshackled (1976, Japan only) TANGERINE DREAM: BSO LEGEND (1986, any release) JON ANDERSON: Three Ships (1985, Japan only) JON ANDERSON: Animation (1982, bootleg USA) JON ANDERSON: Olias of Sunhillow (1976, Japan only) JON ANDERSON: Song of Seven (1980, Japan only) JON ANDERSON: The Best of South America 1993 (CD+VHS) PATRICK MORAZ: I (Japan only) STEVE HOWE: Guitar Player (1989) STEVE HOWE: Guitar Plus (1995) GENESIS: Three Sides Live (first release with studio tracks) RICK WAKEMAN: 1984 (1981) RICK WAKEMAN: COST OF LIVING (1983) RICK WAKEMAN: rare stuff AZUL Y NEGRO: SUSPENSE (1983, Spain only rare CD) VANGELIS: rare stuff (too many to mention here...) JEAN MICHEL JARRE: rare stuff (idem...) YES: any DVD BLOQUE: any CD (only Japan or Korea) IBIO: Cuevas de Altamira (only Japan) JON AND VANGELIS: Page of Life (1998 USA only) TANGERINE DREAM: lots... So, if you can supply me with any of these titles, great! but I won't trade for money. Thank you very much for your interest. ALFT _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:06 pm Subject: audio stimulation? (semi-OT) Hi all, I was looking for info on the 'Blaster Beam' instrument created by Craig Huxley (best known as the sound of V'Ger from Star Trek The Motion Picture) on the net yesterday, when I came across this interesting site. Here's a quote from the page: 'Craig Huxley gave a concert featuring, among other things, a homemade instrument called the Blaster Beam. The Beam can be heard on the soundtrack to STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE (Vger's signature sound effect) and on several New Age albums. It's an amazing instrument, especially when amplified to high levels. The rumor circulating around after the concert was that when Huxley played the Beam, there were women in the audience falling out of their chairs with BIG smiles on their faces. Over a dozen reported having intensely sexual feelings from the Beam sound, up to and including orgasm.' The author of the site is evidently a synth-head and had created a patch for his Xpander, which reportedly had a similar effect on his ex-girlfriend. This guy started a fairly in-depth information gathering, and got some interesting responses. You can read the whole thing at: http://www.totse.com/en/technology/science_technology/synsex.html If sound can truly have this effect, why aren't there more female electronic music fans? Also, does anyone have a sound sample of the Beam, or a synth that can make one. The guy describes how he made the patch in some kind of synth-head talk that I don't understand. If anyone here can translate that into an actual sound and would be so kind as to make a recording of the sound to CDR or MP3, I'd be happy to work a trade with you. James PS: Michael Stearns evidently uses the Blaster Beam fairly regularly as well. For those that don't know, the Blaster Beam is a 17 foot long beam made from 4 inch thick aluminum plate. It has many wire stretched down it's length which can be struck with a mallet or played in slide-guitar style with a spent artillery shell! It has dozens of pick-ups all down the length. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31022 Re: audio stimulation? (semi-OT) Joe Shoults Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB 31023 Re: audio stimulation? (semi-OT) Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/4/2002 4 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] audio stimulation? (semi-OT) I rememebr something about low frequency sounds stimulating this response, like 4 Hz or something... can't remember where I read it though. I'm thinking the reference had something to do with Jose Silva Mind Control Method (discussing how frequencies induce Alpha-level brain states), or maybe it was some of the kooky stuff I was into from Robert Anton Wilson, Leary and the like., The description of the instrument sounds like that thing Mickey Hart plays. > -----Original Message----- > was that when Huxley played the Beam, there were women in the audience > falling out of their chairs with BIG smiles on their faces. Over a > dozen reported having intensely sexual feelings from the Beam > sound, up to and including orgasm.' ... > 4 inch thick aluminum plate. It has many wire stretched down > it's length which can be struck with a mallet or played in slide From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] audio stimulation? (semi-OT) A while back recording studios used metal plates like this for reverbs. We see it today on electronic ones called plates. Perhaps one liked the sound produced and used some other magic to bring it to a more musical instrument. Also I remember reading something in 'Future Music' (I might be wrong on the mag) on how electronic reverbs synth these days. They had a diagram as well showing the sound waves as it flowed over the metal plate. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 8:39 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] audio stimulation? (semi-OT) > I rememebr something about low frequency sounds stimulating this response, > like 4 Hz or something... can't remember where I read it though. I'm > thinking the reference had something to do with Jose Silva Mind Control > Method (discussing how frequencies induce Alpha-level brain states), or > maybe it was some of the kooky stuff I was into from Robert Anton Wilson, > Leary and the like., > > The description of the instrument sounds like that thing Mickey Hart plays. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > was that when Huxley played the Beam, there were women in the audience > > falling out of their chairs with BIG smiles on their faces. Over a > > dozen reported having intensely sexual feelings from the Beam > > sound, up to and including orgasm.' > ... > > 4 inch thick aluminum plate. It has many wire stretched down > > it's length which can be struck with a mallet or played in slide > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 5:06 pm Subject: Blaster Beam The Blaster Beam is actually more of a beam than a plate. Dimension are (approximately): 17ft X 1ft X 4in It MAKES the sound along with the groups of wires stretched down it's length. Think of it as a very exotic strings instrument. With all the pick-ups and good amplification, it can really make some incredible sounds. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Administrator for kay-net.com [mailto:admin@k...] > > A while back recording studios used metal plates like this > for reverbs. We > see it today on electronic ones called plates. Perhaps one > liked the sound > produced and used some other magic to bring it to a more > musical instrument. > Also I remember reading something in 'Future Music' (I might > be wrong on the > mag) on how electronic reverbs synth these days. They had a > diagram as well > showing the sound waves as it flowed over the metal plate. From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: Dear Mr. Kasprzak (I'm posting this to the list so that other Tadream members can comment. All opinions are my own, only.) I'm heartened to see that this list is attended by someone close to Edgar and Jerome. I write this from my own heart, but I suspect that I speak (write) for most (or probably, all) fans here. I don't really want to buy, or even trade bootlegs. I want to buy REAL concert recordings as only Edgar and Jerome can produce them: From concert masters using Jerome's DQC mastering. I want to buy them EXACTLY as performed, without overdubs, embellishments, 'corrections', or creations, please. If they have some flaws, that's okay. Let them have some flaws. If cuts are needed to avoid copyrighted sections owned by uncooperative labels, cut away! If Edgar and Jerome want to bring them 'up to date' by overdubbing, that's understandable. Release recordings of new mixes with overdubs. If they are cleaver and interesting, I will buy them too! (Consider the good reception received by DM3.) I understand that there are legal reasons why TD cannot release some concert material intact, but surely there must be a mountain of concert material from the 1970s that is of an improvisational nature and that could be released without violating copyrights -- I have bootlegs that show this to be the case. Please release those concerts, in whole or in part, for they are the ones I most desire. Thank you, and please sleep well knowing that despite what is sometimes written here by excitable fans -- music that is successful is emotional, is it not? -- I'm sure that the vast majority of fans really do know that Edgar and Jerome endeavor to do their best. Please send them my love and my best wishes for 2002 and beyond. Fond Regards, Mark Filipak From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:26 pm Subject: what is DQC, really?? (was RE: [tadream] Dear Mr. Kasprzak) what exactly IS 'DQC Mastering,' anyway? > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > I want to buy REAL concert recordings as only Edgar and > Jerome can produce them: From concert masters using Jerome's > DQC mastering. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31033 Re: what is DQC, really?? Franklin Smythe Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:16 pm Subject: the mighty BEAM >Also, does anyone have a sound sample of the Beam, There's lots of examples of the Beam in use--mickey hart used to play it at many grateful dead concerts during the drums segment of the shows also, I've seen pigface play it tagteam--two drummers simutaneously and michael stearns has recordings of it to as I recall. try www.michaelstearns.com The beam is basically a long piece of metal with more or less 12 foot in length piano wires attached to it and it uses a similar pickup as an electric guitar. I've seen mickey play it with a slide--whack it really and kick the hell out if--with plenty of reverb it's simply amazing.... --T _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31029 Re: the mighty BEAM Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/4/2002 3 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:21 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] KB for Tape Archivist Sadly, I suspect the problem is not finding people who would be willing to do this, but finding a member of TD that would be willing to let them do it... Oh well, we can always dream... Paul ---------- >De : 'Owens, James' >À : ''tadream@yahoogroups.com'' >Objet : [tadream] KB for Tape Archivist >Date : Ven 4 jan 2002 16:29 > > I second the nomination! > >> -----Original Message----- >> What I'd like to see is TD >> put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more >> interesting shows from over the years, complete and unedited. > [...] >> I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! >> >> Scott > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] the mighty BEAM Well there you have it. Since I usually never listen to GD, I would have never guessed it. What is the real name of this instrument? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'tei waz' To: ; Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:16 AM Subject: [tadream] the mighty BEAM > >Also, does anyone have a sound sample of the Beam, > > There's lots of examples of the Beam in use--mickey hart used to play it at > many grateful dead concerts during the drums segment of the shows also, I've > seen pigface play it tagteam--two drummers simutaneously and michael stearns > has recordings of it to as I recall. > > try > > www.michaelstearns.com > > > The beam is basically a long piece of metal with more or less 12 foot in > length piano wires attached to it and it uses a similar pickup as an > electric guitar. I've seen mickey play it with a slide--whack it really and > kick the hell out if--with plenty of reverb it's simply amazing.... > > --T > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:57 pm Subject: ot the mighty beam continued OK here's some more BEAM info --T rec.music.gdead FAQ, pt. 1 of 2 (downloaded may 2 1995) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) What is that weird thing that Mickey plays during Space? -------------------------------------------------------- It is called 'The Beam', a long aluminum I-beam with twelve piano strings streched along its length; the vibration of the strings is sensed by a very large magnetic pickup. The sound is amplified through Myers speakers and sub-woofers, whose loudness can be varied with a foot-pedal allowing a controlled degree of acoustic feedback. The best example of the Beam is on the Rythm Devil's 'The Apocalypse Now Sessions'. The Beam is used heavily, but most notably on the track, 'Napalm for Breakfast'. Pittsburgh 06/26/88, Shoreline 06/16/90, and Buffalo 06/06/92 are good examples of the Beam in concert. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:01 pm Subject: ot beam you can try here http://www.gracecathedral.org/ram/earth_hart.ram if it doesn't work try http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/features/fea_20010515.shtml click on 'listen to mickey hart's segment' there's about 2 to 4 minutes of talking before the music begins (segment's about 18 + minutes)--listen for the big low frequency sound--that's the beam--albeit reverbed out from the grace cathedral :) --T _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: vic rek Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:45 pm Subject: Rubycon Super Audio CD I just got my copy of Rubycon SACD today. I am playing it on my regular CD player and it sounds great. Now I wonder what the effect will be using a SACD player? Does anyone else have this CD? The packaging is nice. Made in Holland during late 2001. The CD case itself is a little different than your standard jewel case; the edges are rounded. I got mine from www.cdquest.com from Huntington Beach, California for a little under $20. Vic From: Franklin Smythe Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:47 pm Subject: Re: what is DQC, really?? Given the time frame the term debuted, the state of technology at that time, and the source, my guess has always been: Damn Quick Computer FTS --- Joe Shoults wrote: > what exactly IS 'DQC Mastering,' anyway? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side to side (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations up and down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The record plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but a quad phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back channels. Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look like the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is being decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back channels are not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the soundspace (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money for a quad phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the story with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: 'Alpha Centauri' [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 'Zeit' [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware engineer) 'Owens, James' wrote: > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I haven't > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. I've got some > classical LPs in Quad too. > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where you have > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > Vic > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel audio. > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how many of > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that there was > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > dummy... you > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, but I > > > could be > > > wrong... From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 12:36 am Subject: Bootleging Friends, I appreciate Martin's mail to the list, explaining TDI's 'policy' about live show trading. But, please, be clear on this, and I have explained this on this list about a thousand (or so. ;-) times: Copyright violations are (in Germany, and most member contries of the WTO) 'official' violatons. I dont know the correct term in english legalese, it stands for violations the state is obliged to investigate and prosecute, regardless of a complaint filed. To explain the difference, police etc. only investigate and prosecute your neighbour, having a LOUD party, if you file a complaint against him. On the other hand, if they get word of your neighbor harboring terrorists, i.e. committing an 'official' crime, they will and can not wait for a complaint to be filed - they are obliged to investigate and prosecute. Copyright violations made it to 'official' crimes in most countries in the 1980s, when video pirateing became a major issue. This left all us live concert traders under the same legal threat a video bootleger of a Spielberg movie has to face. Bottom line: thanks to Martin for explainig the TDI policy. But: we all are doing our trading under a very thin protection. Even if TDI does not take action, our local law inforcement may, at any time, do so. Your, my, our, protection, at the moment, is that they have (a lot of) bigger fish to go after than us. cheers, klaus -- Klaus.Beschorner........................work....+49-7033-45683 Drosselweg.6............................fax.....+49-7033-45631 D-71120.Grafenau........................Mobile.+49-174 3157754 Germany.................................home....+49-7033-45142 ............................................http://www.caby.de From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:09 am Subject: Dear Mr. Kasprzak, Some Clarification & Additions I wrote to you shortly after midnight (local time), this morning (Fri, 04 Jan 2002, 5:20:26 GMT). Some members of this list have written to me saying that what I wrote could be misunderstood. I tried to be concise, but upon rereading what I wrote, I must agree. So I'm writing to clarify it. Clarification ============= When I said in one paragraph 'I want to buy them [the concerts] EXACTLY as performed' and then in the next paragraph 'If Edgar and Jerome want to bring them 'up to date' by overdubbing ... I will buy them too!' I meant this: Release them both! Yes! I will buy both the originals AND the remixes. I shall expand on this so that there can be no confusion. I want to buy CDs of the concerts in their original forms with whatever warts they may have. After sampling the concert tapes, mixing (if multitrack), and doing other TD audio magic (DQC mastering) to them to yield the best sound possible without substantially altering or adding to them, give me the opportunity to buy them. Once the original concert CD has been released, if Edgar and Jerome want to use the material as food for remixes, overdubs, etc. that's fine. If the resulting art is interesting, then I will buy those CDs also! What matter is poverty when you have music! (Nice artwork and accompanying text is desirable too.) 'White Cloths' ============== Let me give you a specific example. I have MP3s of the afternoon and evening shows from The Palast der Republik, 31 Jan 80, commonly known as 'White Cloths'. Many people have these, though some have the original tapes or CDR copies -- I have only 64kbps, MP3s . Of course, I also have the official album 'Pergamon' but as everyone knows, 1, it is not the entire evening show, 2, 'Quichotte Pt.1' is somewhat altered, and 3, 'Quichotte Pt.2' is a studio recreation that, though quite faithful to the original, is nevertheless, not the original. From the MP3s I have, I see that the afternoon show was 80 minutes and the evening show was 77 minutes and 21 seconds. They would (barely) fit on two CDs. Though I already have 'Pergamon', I would happily buy a double CD of 'Tangerine Dream Behind the Wall Live at Palast der Republik, East Berlin, 31 Jan 80 The Complete Concerts'. I think you could count on nearly everyone on this list buying this product, and I know that there are a great many people who are not on this list who would also buy this immediately. My Request ========== Please ask Edgar and Jerome to seriously consider releasing whatever live material they can in its COMPLETE AND UNALTERED form, especially concerts from the 1970s and early 1980s. Listening to 'White Cloths' I can only imagine the sensation that their release would create in the music media and with the public at large. Best Regards, Mark Filipak From: 'Hotmail' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:16 am Subject: ENO's WHITE CUBE ?? Any information on this would be of interest....is this on the US Ebay site only....what is it exactly..... 'By the way, do you know who is selling the original copy of Eno's White Cube??? ' From: vic rek Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic ATEM - LP France Disques Clementine 33003, QUAD Yellow 'The Sound of The Cosmic Couriers' label. Label also says: 'Produced by Tangerine Dream and Rolf-Ubrich Kaiser' - Remember this guy? ;-) Mark Filipak wrote: > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > 'Alpha Centauri' > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > 'Zeit' > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > From: veine@v... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:40 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading My 2 pennies worth; When you come to the realization that there are a lot of bootleg recordings with your favorite group, you have most CD's/will buy the rest, because you want a 'complete' collection. Most 'regular' people wouldn't concern themselves with bootleg recordings, they can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores, but they don't spend time, nor have the 'devotion' to search further. I must say that Tangerine Dream's stand on this issue is a tribute to all the 'hard-core' fans that collects almost everything about the band. And for that, we can only thank them greatly. If they were to release some of the old concert recordings, I would be the first in line on the day they are issued, even slightly remixed, tho I actually prefer the untouched recordings.. I guess in simple words, I'll collect everything I can get my hands on, via trade or buy, cause as I said, when you finally get aware of the 'unofficial' recordings out there, you are inclined to get it all :o) Please correct me if you think I'm wrong and excuse my for the evening poor english and ways of expression (it's been a long week) Regards ~Veine On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:48:54 +0100 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: >At 10:59 03.01.02 , you wrote: >>Martin, >> Thanks for the posting (harsh or not). I myself did not intend to >>reply to the list to begin with when I initiated a trade. I accidentally hit >>reply and it went to the list. I hope now that everyone sees how some people >>operate, though. I offered a trade between collectors and was answered >with a >>couple of rather pompous replies, one of which you read here. >> I would like to know, just to clear things up once and for >all....what >>is the OFFICIAL policy concerning trading concerts (with no money >>involved..collector to collector only). I am sure a lot of people are >>interested to know and no one wants to do anything illegal. >> I do not claim to speak for ALL members of this list by any means, >but >>most of us are just true fans and lovers of the music. Any clarity you can >>provide on this situation would be appreciated. >> >>Thanks, and a Happy New Year to all... >>Alex >>(ATYE) >> > > >Dear Alex, > >while the band does not particularly encourage recording and spreading >their shows, they do tolerate und understand the fan´s interests in having >these concert recordings, so... as long as people trade and do not make >profit from exchanging the CD-R´s or tapes or whatever, we will not take >any measures against it. We will, however, go against any kind of profit >that someone else tries to make from the band´s artistic and intellectual >property - i.e. from work that doesn´t belong to them. > >Btw, I did receive a rather childish and unpleasant reply from the >advertiser of this CD-R that made pretty clear that he is only interested >in financial gain from this release. His pompous reply to the list made >this pretty clear, too, methinks. I can only advise you all - do not buy >the item or trade it for s/t expensive from him. If somebody else on the >list manages to obtain this release, make a tree and share it with everyone >for free. > > > >Best regards, > >Martin Kasprzak >TDI- Music- Support. >Tel:-49-30-23620995 >Fax:-49-30-23620996 > >Visit our Website at: > >www.tdimusic.com > >Have a nice day! > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- Get your firstname@l... email at http://Nameplanet.com/?su From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 2:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic Thanks Vic! I had this entry but I didn't know it was quadraphonic. Do you remember when I first joined Tadream back in the summer of 96? I started a comprehensive chronology of TD. I'm still working on it. I'll add your contribution. What's a Chronology? ==================== Note to any folks not familiar with this work: A discography is just album releases, track names and times, etc. What I started is a chronology of Tangerine Dream that has everything -- well, everything I can learn. You see, I started a discography but found that it breaks down when you consider albums like 'Green Desert' and 'Tyger' and disc 5 of 'Tangents'. Also, a discography doesn't include appearances, concerts, unreleased movie scores, etc. whereas a chronology does. The chronology is email friendly (ie, 73 characters per line, plain text), compact, concise, and formatted to facilitate automated search using regular expressions in Perl, Snobol, or any other string processing language, while still being pleasing to the eye. Currently the chronology is 480,551 characters of which probably 1/2 is still rough notes. Anyone wishing a copy should request it off list, please. Anyone who would like to help, that would be welcome too. :-) Once again. Thank you very much, Vic. -- Mark PS: Remember my incessent requests for details on LP and CD releases (matrix numbers and all)? The folks on this list were very tolerant. :-) PPS: I also have an 'Introduction to Tangerine Dream' that is about 4 years out of date but is a good synopsis of the music up to about 1997, concentrating on the various styles or phases of TD music through the years and intended for casual reading. It currently is 36,864 characters in length (about 5 printed pages). vic rek wrote: > > ATEM - LP France Disques Clementine 33003, QUAD > Yellow 'The Sound of The Cosmic Couriers' label. Label also says: > 'Produced by Tangerine Dream and Rolf-Ubrich Kaiser' - Remember this guy? ;-) > > Mark Filipak wrote: > > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > > > 'Alpha Centauri' > > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > > > 'Zeit' > > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'E Neal Frost' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 2:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Martin's Post By the time I read this e-mail, I am sure the motion has already be 'seconded', so I 'third' the motion!!! Neal . > What I'd like to see it TD put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more interesting > shows from over the years, complete and unedited> for release. I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! > > Scott > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 2:32 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading Veine, your English is just fine because it comes from the heart -- the source of all language. I have to disagree with you on one point, that is: '[most 'regular' people] can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores'. 'Pergamon' is nice, but I think that anyone who hears the passion in Johannes' Tangram piano solo from the Palast der Republik afternoon show would prefer 'White Cloths'. If you haven't heard it... well, it's just breath taking. There is such spirt and heart that 'Pergamon' sounds rather dull in comparison. Ciao -- Mark veine@v... wrote: > > My 2 pennies worth; > > When you come to the realization that there are a lot of bootleg recordings with your favorite group, you have most CD's/will buy the rest, because you want a 'complete' collection. Most 'regular' people wouldn't concern themselves with bootleg recordings, they can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores, but they don't spend time, nor have the 'devotion' to search further. I must say that Tangerine Dream's stand on this issue is a tribute to all the 'hard-core' fans that collects almost everything about the band. > > And for that, we can only thank them greatly. If they were to release some of the old concert recordings, I would be the first in line on the day they are issued, even slightly remixed, tho I actually prefer the untouched recordings.. I guess in simple words, I'll collect everything I can get my hands on, via trade or buy, cause as I said, when you finally get aware of the 'unofficial' recordings out there, you are inclined to get it all :o) > > Please correct me if you think I'm wrong and excuse my for the evening poor english and ways of expression (it's been a long week) > > Regards > > ~Veine From: veine@v... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 3:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading Mark; Thanks (the few Foster's I've had (one pint cans)) doesn't help my english since it isn't my native tounge ;o) What I did mean is that for people that doesn't even bother/doesn't know how to find out, the official releases are just wonderful, actually my wife has started to apprieciate some of the older ones (not the really early material but.. hope lives ) for us that have heard/own files from Palast der Republik, it's clear and obvious which files that are the better set of the two. Pergamon is running right now in my player and I must say it's been a while since I listened to that one. Thanks for the inspiration to play it :o) Regards ~Veine On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 21:32:06 -0500 Mark Filipak wrote: >Veine, your English is just fine because it comes from the heart -- the source of all language. > >I have to disagree with you on one point, that is: '[most 'regular' people] can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores'. 'Pergamon' is nice, but I think that anyone who hears the passion in Johannes' Tangram piano solo from the Palast der Republik afternoon show would prefer 'White Cloths'. If you haven't heard it... well, it's just breath taking. There is such spirt and heart that 'Pergamon' sounds rather dull in comparison. > >Ciao -- Mark -- Get your firstname@l... email at http://Nameplanet.com/?su From: vic rek Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 5:47 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offered A thought came across my heavily TD-saturated brain today: veine@v... wrote: > And for that, we can only thank them greatly. If they were to release some of the old concert recordings, I would be the first in line on the day they are issued, even slightly remixed, tho I actually prefer the untouched recordings.. I guess in simple words, I'll collect everything I can get my hands on, via trade or buy, cause as I said, when you finally get aware of the 'unofficial' recordings out there, you are inclined to get it all :o) We always keep saying that we want the old concerts BUT we don't want them remixed, tangentized, etc. Do we really know what we really want sometimes? I've been listening to many of the old fan recordings from 1973-1976 and a lot of the music is left for the brain to fill in or romanticize with. An example: I love a particular concert from 1974 even though the quality is poor. The poor quality of the recording even adds 'something' to the atmosphere of the music. If maybe I heard that perfectly, that is, from a soundboard , I may not even recognize the music. So what difference would it be at that point if it was re-mxed or tangentized - it would still be something new than the fan tape that I was listening to. If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Much of what we like may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. What am I saying here ?!!? :-) Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31059 Re: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offere Mark Filipak Sun 1/6/2002 5 KB 31060 Live vs. Remixed Franklin Smythe Sun 1/6/2002 7 KB From: 'John Marchington' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 9:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic I don't think you're totally correct about this, Mark. If I remember correctly, there were three different types of quadraphony used in the days of LPs: QS, SQ and CD-4 (and the latter had nothing to do with compact disc!). The first two used forms of sum and difference modulation to combine the four channels into two so that they could be played with a standard stereo cartridge, while the CD-4 method used a very high frequency carrier (about 45kHz) and the four channels of audio were modulated on that as sum and difference signals -- a bit like stereo FM. Clearly, the latter required the use of a cartridge that would respond to those HF signals. Inevitably, cantilever resonances meant that there was going to be a fairly high degree of groove wear with the latter as well. Not surprisingly, all three systems were incompatible with one another (shades of SACD and DVD-A?) and thus required their own special decoders to reconstruct the four channels of audio. One could get away with using separate amplifiers for the rear channels and feeding the out-of-phase signals from the front channels to them, but the results weren't very impressive (at least with SQ, which was all I had). That, and the mechanical constraints of cartridges and records that existed at the time, generally meant that none of them were likely to take off in a big way. The situation is completely different with both SACD and DVD-A and its quite likely that spectacular results can be obtained from a really good, well set up multi-channel system with either of the above. In my opinion, however, that will require a large room with all the speakers at a reasonable distance from the listener(s) so that detail (even if it is just ambience) from all channels can be experienced. I don't have that luxury, so I'm sticking with stereo. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic > I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side to side (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations up and down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The record plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but a quad phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back channels. Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look like the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is being decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back channels are not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the soundspace (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money for a quad phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the story with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > 'Alpha Centauri' > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > 'Zeit' > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware engineer) > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I haven't > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. I've got some > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where you have > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > James > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel audio. > > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how many of > > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that there was > > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > > dummy... you > > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, but I > > > > could be > > > > wrong... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31074 Re: Quadrophonic armin_theissen Mon 1/7/2002 7 KB From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:03 am Subject: short update Hi all, short update: www.opticaldream.de incl. the NEW GROUND LIFTAZ RELEASE GL 0006 Regards heiko www.opticaldream.de LOOK ALSO TO: www.tribute-to-ashra.de http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:10 am Subject: TD concert tapes Vic wrote: >If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, >but I believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or >we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like >this. Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told to burn it >directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Much of what we like >may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. > >What am I saying here ?!!? :-) A very true and insightful statement! Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear on these old tapes. Scott wrote: >What I'd like to see it TD put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and >release the more interesting shows from over the years, complete and >unedited for release. I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape >archivist! Ha, thanks for the honour, but I'd have to decline. I guess I'd just freeze in front of the racks and start drooling ;-) Most of us on this list are still young enough to wait a while. When Edgar finally retires, he'll have to open that vault and pull one out every month to pay the rent ;-) cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31048 Re: TD concert tapes mengels@w... Sat 1/5/2002 3 KB 31055 Re: TD concert tapes Admin Sat 1/5/2002 2 KB 31081 AW: [tadream] TD concert tapes H. Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB From: mengels@w... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD concert tapes Klaus C wrote: >A very true and insightful statement! >Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths >was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear >on these old tapes. Well...the frequency range on the Moog is 0Hz (yes it can do DC) to 100Khz I believe. My modular goes from 0.05Hz to around 50KHz and it's all analog. It's probably more the recording equipment which couldn't handle these synths. The cats go crazy with the analog synths but not with the digital gear. :-) Anyway, I love the old recordings and the way it is recorded adds something to the atmosphere. In fact, we did a concert in Hampshire not so long ago and listening to the mixer recording and the audience recording I like the audience best. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading Here's what I think of this subject... I haven't heard a single bootleg, and I'm not probably going to for a few years. I'm not a diehard collector fan (though I may become one) but not just some guy who happens to like TD among 39 other bands as well, either. I'd be grateful to get *anything* old (mostly referring to the Virgin Years) & so far unreleased, even if it's 'violated' to almost unrecognizable state from whatever the original music was. I heard from Feldon that the in- and outros in Soundmill Navigator are 'fake'; so what. I still like that, (I'm playing it at the moment) though the original-er middle section indeed is nicer than these additions. If I could even get something of the style of Encore, no matter that that one is also some bit re-edited, I'd surely go and buy it. On the other hand... getting a 2CD containing the actual Pergamon concert, or any other original version of an already existing live album, wouldn't be my first interest. Perhaps after I've bough all the other ones having more material what I don't have. That also is the reason why I'm not going to get Tyger in quite some while - I have at least 80% of it already on Dream Roots, and I don't think I'm missing too much. In a nutshell: material that's completely original to any non-collector would surely sell better than a quarterdozen different versions of the tour of a live album already in market. Sohoman-type live albums having more than half of material that even some people who don't even count themselves among 'fans' are not going to be real hit albums, I can guess that. But about anything from the seventies... that's what most people, fanatics or not, want most. I guess. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 7:18 pm Subject: Sueno Latino for sale. Hi all, I have an CD-S for sale: Sueno Latino - Sueno Latino ZYX GDC 2099-8 with the Winter version (great stuff) with special guest Manuel Goettsching on guitar !!! If you interested in, please let me know and make me an serious offer. heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'horrod6' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 9:57 pm Subject: Re: Rumpelstiltskin Dell wrote: 'I guess this might be an area that separates the females from the pack here. I've been seeing pieces like Cinnamon Road and United Goblin's Parade described as too sweet and in every instance they are the particular songs I most like.' Well, I guess the number of females on the list is too small for a statistically significant sample, but I agree with you strongly on Cinnamon Road. I haven't heard Rumpelstiltskin, so I can't comment on that one. Sorry this response is so removed in time from the original message - I have had _major_ PC problems, and then I've been away for the holiday season. Hopefully things will get back to normal now! LnH Marion From: 'horrod6' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:07 pm Subject: CD's for Xmas Hi Infection: just wanted to congratulate you on your choice of Van Gelis' _Spiral_. It's my absolute favourite VG. I hope you managed to get it and are enjoying it by now! LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31069 Re: Vangelis - Spiral TheInfection Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic You can always add some side channels as well as sub woofer. I have been experimenting with 5.1 lately with my synths. I find that I can move sound around the room in a circle as well as construct high lites to rear or side channels. While you are right that you do need a room that large to do this, you can get by with a much simpler system to get similar effects. You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I remember reading the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player that I keep in my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). Dale From: 'horrod6' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:38 pm Subject: LOTR (OT) 'Best LOTR song: Ballad of Bilbo Baggins sung by Leonard Nimoy....' ROFLMAO Actually, this was very distressing for me. Mr Spock was my first crush, a fact that has probably had a major influence on my life since I was about 12. I didn't know about the BoBB until there was a 'Star Trek' night on TV a couple of years ago. What a come down! LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31057 Re: LOTR (OT) PENFOLD Sun 1/6/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD concert tapes How right you are on this. Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear on these old tapes. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31081 AW: [tadream] TD concert tapes H. Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB From: tangram12@a... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:49 pm Subject: web site hi everyone if you are having difficulty accessing my website at www.tadream.co.uk try this lik instead in the meantime whilst i get the problem sorted www.members.tripod.com/~duncanmckee/td.htm thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: PENFOLD Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 12:44 am Subject: Re: [tadream] LOTR (OT) At 02.01.05 22:38, horrod6 wrote: >'Best LOTR song: Ballad of Bilbo Baggins sung by Leonard Nimoy....' > >ROFLMAO Many years ago I found an *autographed* copy of the LP 'The Two Faces of Leonard Nimoy' which has TBoBB on it as well as his classic 'Totally Illogical' Paid $5 for it. Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: scfeldman@j... Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:20 am Subject: Interesting Tidbit About Giorgio Moroder's Introduction to Synths --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: clive_eurodisco To: Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:34:17 +0000 Subject: [moroder] Dan Wyman > From: 'pressplaydebasia' By the way, don't you love Dan Wyman? I do - and I'd love to know more about him. In the interview with Moroder on Sound On Sound magazine's website, he mentions a helpful engineer who first introduced him to the Moog synthesiser. I wonder if this might be Mr Wyman? This guy actually used to 'smuggle' Moroder into the studio where an unnamed avant garde German composer (Stockhausen?) kept his Moog which was basically used for just the odd, atonal sound. The engineer would demonstrate how much more the machine could do musically and got Moroder's interest going... If anyone knows anything more about Dan Wyman please let us know. Clive From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:48 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offered I got some comments for your fevered (and obviously addled) brain to mull over, Vic. vic rek wrote: > > We always keep saying that we want the old concerts BUT we don't want them remixed, tangentized, etc. Do we really know what we really want sometimes? Yes. I know exactly what I want. > I've been listening to many of the old fan recordings from 1973-1976 and a lot of the music is left for the brain to fill in or romanticize with. An example: I love a particular concert from 1974 even though the quality is poor. The poor quality of the recording even adds 'something' to the atmosphere of the music. If maybe I heard that perfectly, that is, from a soundboard , I may not even recognize the music. So what difference would it be at that point if it was re-mxed or tangentized - it would still be something new than the fan > tape that I was listening to. Vic!! Sober up and wash your mouth out with very strong and bitter soap! Okay, what's great about boundboard recordings? 1 - No audience noise. 2 - Live performance full of adrenaline. With all due respect I'd like to emphasize: Live performance full of adrenaline. Studio albums are great, but they don't have the passion that live recordings have. I recently cited Johannes' piano solo in the afternoon Palast der Republik show from 'White Cloths'. You don't hear that kind of passion coming out of a studio. And you don't hear that kind of passion coming from overdubs, either. I thik that may be what's wrong with 'tangitizing': It's all technical and no passion. When Edgar overdubs, I think he's so concerned with the sound he forgets about the soul. It's like putting a layer of chrome over a multi-textured piece of wood. BTW, Edgar displays that kind of passion too. Just listen to some of his live guitar rips. (Hold up your hand if you love it when Edgar grabs his axe during a show.) When Edgar is really on, I don't think any guitarist can equal him. A concert recording is not great because of crowd noise. That's something you just put up with because when you mike from the audience, you're going to get crowd noise. What makes a concert recording great is the performance before a live audience in a concert venue. Listen to Johannes on 'White Cloths'. - His first public appearance as part of TD. - A 4 minute piano solo in front of a huge, attentive GDR crowd. He was pumped. You can hear it. He probably had a woodie throughout the show. You rarely get that in a studio recording. > If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. First, a mixdown of multitrack material that has never been mixed is not a remix. If it is multitrack, then it has to be mixed. I don't think anyone is asking for raw tracks. Point is: Vintage concert recording + modern overdubs = diminishment, disappointment, frustration, anger. > Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Edgar has access to the soundboard tapes. Fantapes are beside the point and boots made from fantapes generally suck. > Much of what we like may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. > > What am I saying here ?!!? :-) Too many suds, Vic. Lay off the beer when you write to the list. :-P -- Mark (Love ya Vic!) > > Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31060 Live vs. Remixed Franklin Smythe Sun 1/6/2002 7 KB From: Franklin Smythe Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 1:16 pm Subject: Live vs. Remixed As a newcomer to this forum, I too must chime in to second Mark's comments. So much of a live performance's heart and soul is lost during the remixing process... if it's done incorrectly. My own personal take on the situation with TD is this. (Those who consider Froese the second coming of Christ may wish to stop reading here.) The biggest problem with all these remixes and 'Tangents-ized' recordings is not the fact that they've been retouched; it's that they've been retouched poorly. And by poorly, I mean simply: with too little consideration of the original presentation of the performance. Most live albums are polished to some extent after the fact for production-value reasons. Inherently, this is not a problem if it's done with great care. In fact, most artists are keenly concerned with retaining the live performance's soul during this process. In TD's case, far too often Edgar has seemingly gone out of his way to take the opposite approach: in the interests of sound quality (or perhaps, some other factors which he would never discuss), the very things which made the original performance sparkle are drowned out by newer sounds and compositional perspectives. These new additions/replacements may be OK in and of themselves, but placing them within the context of a past performance is downright disastrous to the original. And that's why many fans are so turned off by this approach - not because the released product isn't 'good', but because it's not what it's supposed to be. Live concerts are something of sacred ground to most fans. In my opinion, once an artist performs something in this live context, he sacrifices at least a little of his 'ownership' and right to do whatever he wants with it. The work is out there, audiences have heard it, it's a part of history. Making significant changes and then releasing it under the banner of a 'live recording' is tantamount to a lie. And yet, by all accounts, Froese neither agrees with - nor even understands - this perspective. Unless he ever does, he will continue to disappoint fans with these 'live' releases, and then publicly shrug his shoulders when reactions are so negative. FTS --- Mark Filipak wrote: > I got some comments for your fevered (and obviously > addled) brain to mull over, Vic. > > vic rek wrote: > > > > We always keep saying that we want the old > concerts BUT we don't want them remixed, > tangentized, etc. Do we really know what we really > want sometimes? > > Yes. I know exactly what I want. > > > I've been listening to many of the old fan > recordings from 1973-1976 and a lot of the music is > left for the brain to fill in or romanticize with. > An example: I love a particular concert from 1974 > even though the quality is poor. The poor quality > of the recording even adds 'something' to the > atmosphere of the music. If maybe I heard that > perfectly, that is, from a soundboard , I may not > even recognize the music. So what difference would > it be at that point if it was re-mxed or tangentized > - it would still be something new than the fan > > tape that I was listening to. > > Vic!! Sober up and wash your mouth out with very > strong and bitter soap! Okay, what's great about > boundboard recordings? > 1 - No audience noise. > 2 - Live performance full of adrenaline. > > With all due respect I'd like to emphasize: Live > performance full of adrenaline. Studio albums are > great, but they don't have the passion that live > recordings have. I recently cited Johannes' piano > solo in the afternoon Palast der Republik show from > 'White Cloths'. You don't hear that kind of passion > coming out of a studio. And you don't hear that kind > of passion coming from overdubs, either. > > I thik that may be what's wrong with 'tangitizing': > It's all technical and no passion. When Edgar > overdubs, I think he's so concerned with the sound > he forgets about the soul. It's like putting a layer > of chrome over a multi-textured piece of wood. > > BTW, Edgar displays that kind of passion too. Just > listen to some of his live guitar rips. (Hold up > your hand if you love it when Edgar grabs his axe > during a show.) When Edgar is really on, I don't > think any guitarist can equal him. > > A concert recording is not great because of crowd > noise. That's something you just put up with because > when you mike from the audience, you're going to get > crowd noise. What makes a concert recording great is > the performance before a live audience in a concert > venue. > > Listen to Johannes on 'White Cloths'. > - His first public appearance as part of TD. > - A 4 minute piano solo in front of a huge, > attentive GDR crowd. > > He was pumped. You can hear it. He probably had a > woodie throughout the show. You rarely get that in a > studio recording. > > > If I had a choice, I would probably prefer > re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this > attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll > hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old > releases like this. > > First, a mixdown of multitrack material that has > never been mixed is not a remix. If it is > multitrack, then it has to be mixed. I don't think > anyone is asking for raw tracks. > > Point is: Vintage concert recording + modern > overdubs = diminishment, disappointment, > frustration, anger. > > > Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told > to burn it directly to disc, you may have second > thoughts. > > Edgar has access to the soundboard tapes. Fantapes > are beside the point and boots made from fantapes > generally suck. > > > Much of what we like may not be exactly what we > hear, but what we think we know. > > > > What am I saying here ?!!? :-) > > Too many suds, Vic. Lay off the beer when you write > to the list. :-P > > -- Mark (Love ya Vic!) > > > > > Vic > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 1:46 pm Subject: Online Ordering All, I have been referred to this site. They have numerous TD bits and bobs for sale. Can't give any recommendation to them as I've never used them. Can anyone else give a reference to their reliability? Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: mickfarrar [mailto:mickfarrar@h...] Sent: 06 January 2002 13:34 To: atf@yahoogroups.com Subject: [atf] Re: The Joy of Vinyl! Also check www.gemm.com - brilliant. From: Dmitriy V N Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:13 pm Subject: Re: Tyger and Soundmill Navigator >I heard from Feldon that the in- and >outros in Soundmill Navigator are 'fake'; so what. I still like that, (I'm >playing it at the moment) though the original-er middle section indeed is >nicer than these additions. If that's truth than TD really can still perfectly imitate themselves:) Cause I can't differ it from their old style. But all in all Soundmill Navigator is far from Encore and even Ricochet. >That also is the reason why I'm not going to get >Tyger in quite some while - I have at least 80% of it already on Dream >Roots, and I don't think I'm missing too much. Essentials from Tyger are IMO London, Alchemy of the Heart and 21st Century Common Man parts 1&2. The last two are my favourites - it's a pity they are too short... The whole instrumental album in this style would be a great masterpiece but Livemiles shows more US intonation. Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Dmitriy V N Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:14 pm Subject: Concerning later KS I'm afraid I completely can't understand some things from 80s KS material... For example Sebastian in Traum from Audentity - is it a joke or what? And there are many other tracks that are close to this annoying style, even Sense from Live which seems to be very popular on the official KS website. But in any case some compositions really sound interesting - among them are Bellistique from Live, Silent Running from Trancefer, Spielglocken from Audentity and Velvet System from En=trance. Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31068 Re: Concerning later KS Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB 31073 Re: Concerning later KS mengels@w... Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB 31076 Re: Concerning later KS Dmitriy V N Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 31077 Re: Concerning later KS zathrus13 Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 31089 Re: Concerning later KS Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/7/2002 4 KB 31092 Re: Concerning later KS John Marchington Tue 1/8/2002 6 KB 31098 Re: Concerning later KS Synthhtnys@a... Tue 1/8/2002 3 KB 31099 Re: Concerning later KS Greg Tue 1/8/2002 2 KB 31101 Re: Concerning later KS John Marchington Tue 1/8/2002 3 KB From: 'Scott' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Re: TD concert trading >If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this attitude that 'it's >gotta be either pure or we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. Maybe if you >heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Much of what >we like may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. For me, what's great about a live recording is that you're hearing what the folks who actually went to the show are hearing. For that, only an unadulterated recording will do. For those who aren't familiar with them, the Grateful Dead's Dick's Picks series are untouched except for noise reduction or to correct flaws in the original tapes. Some of them still have noise, drop-outs, etc., from the original recordings, or will have parts where the band missed a change, flubbed lyrics, or just plain screwed up. Overall, though, these recordings are remarkable for the overall feel or for rare performances of a particular song or for performances at a particular venue. I'd love to hear more from '77 and '78, and would really like to hear some of the early Zodiak club shows or at least something from that era. I think Ed sees a lot of that stuff as kind of embarassing now, but I disagree. It's historical, IMHO. So, how about 'Vic's Picks'? Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31066 Re: TD concert trading Synthhtnys@a... Sun 1/6/2002 2 KB From: scfeldman@j... Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:13 pm Subject: More Interesting Tidbits About Giorgio Moroder's Introduction to Synths Hi Kiddies, This time, there are two TD references in here (one to Florian Fricke and one to Klaus Schulze): Steven Feldman --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Raimo =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E4kinen?= To: moroder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 14:53:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [moroder] Digest Number 494 Don't know anything about Dan Wyman unfortunately but I think the unnamed avant garde German composer was (and still is) Eberhard Schoener. He was the first German who bought the Big Moog back in 1969 (?) and paid 800,000 German Marks for the privilige. Eberhard introduced Florian Fricke (RIP) then to the possibilities of Moog synthesizer and Florian was the second who bought the Big Moog in 1970(?). Florian Fricke (Popol Vuh) then made the first experimental Moog album called Affenstunde in 1970. Later in 1975 Fricke sold his Moog to Klaus Schulze and the rest is history. So we have to possibilities: Fricke or Schoener. Both lived in Munich. My guess goes for Schoener. Cheers, Raimo >Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:34:17 +0000 >From: clive_eurodisco >Subject: Dan Wyman > >> From: 'pressplaydebasia' > By the way, don't you love Dan Wyman? > > I do - and I'd love to know more about him. In the >interview with Moroder on Sound On Sound magazine's website, >he mentions a helpful engineer who first introduced him to >the Moog synthesiser. I wonder if this might be Mr Wyman? > > This guy actually used to 'smuggle' Moroder into the >studio where an unnamed avant garde German composer >(Stockhausen?) kept his Moog which was basically used for >just the odd, atonal sound. The engineer would demonstrate >how much more the machine could do musically and got >Moroder's interest going... > > If anyone knows anything more about Dan Wyman please >let us know. > >Clive [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD concert trading In a message dated 1/6/2002 12:56:30 PM Central Standard Time, splumer@w... writes: > . So, how about 'Vic's Picks'? > > Scott > > *Best idea/comparison to the situation I know of. Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'horrod6' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:36 pm Subject: Another nice pair Calm down Frank! By pure chance (had my player set to 'shuffle') I listened to 'Epsilon in Malaysian Pale' followed by AirSculpture's 'Fjord Transit' today (tracks, not albums). IMO they make a really nice combination, flowing together very smoothly. I have only listened to Fjord Transit a couple of times, so it hadn't had time to really grow on me up to now. To begin with I thought it was a bit tame after the stuff I'd heard John and Pete play in the swamp, but listening to it this way, it's really grown on me. $00.02 LnH Marion [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 12:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Concerning later KS I find Sebastian im (im, not in) Traum maybe the best of KS's ambient/experimental/whatever pieces of music. It's a great exploration of sounds, with melodies coming and going and being born and dying... maybe with time you'll like it. It's just a matter of taste anyway... The Audentity booklet has a nice written interpretation of the album. The title says 'The story of Sebastian and a search for self-identity via the sounds and music of Klaus Schulze'. It was written by Garry Havrillay, from Radio 3PBS-FM from Melbourne, Australia. >I'm afraid I completely can't understand some things >from 80s KS material... For example Sebastian in Traum >from Audentity - is it a joke or what? And there are >many other tracks that are close to this annoying >style, even Sense from Live which seems to be very >popular on the official KS website. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: TheInfection Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 10:06 am Subject: Re: Vangelis - Spiral --- horrod6 wrote: > Hi Infection: > > just wanted to congratulate you on your choice of > Van Gelis' _Spiral_. It's > my absolute favourite VG. I hope you managed to get > it and are enjoying it > by now! > > LnH > > Marion Yup, got it. The title track is the best. Ballad is somewhat boring and I don't like the wordless vocals too much. Dervish D is bright track. To the Unknown Man has nice on going rythms and good melody. 3+3 doesn't give much for me. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 10:25 am Subject: Want list Hi Gang, I now have a TD want list which one can find at 'http://members.tripod.de/Network23/wants.html' Please email me off-list in case you have something on that list and would like to part with it :-) Regards Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31086 Re: Want list RJF Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 34216 Want list Heiko Heerssen Tue 6/4/2002 2 KB 34225 Re: Want list chris towers Tue 6/4/2002 3 KB From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 2:17 pm Subject: Re: Frank Herbert Hi, ...and I remember to have seen somewhere on a KS album - I guess its on (or better 'in' - gatefold) of 'live' - a photo with a copy of the book 'Dune' flying around... armin, back from Bulgaria, covered in snow --- In tadream@y..., Gustavo Jobim wrote: > I'm pretty sure it's the author of Dune; the album released after X was Dune... > > >Track 3 on X is titled 'Frank Herbert'. Did KS mean > >the author of Dune or it's just a coincedence? > > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 3:40 pm Subject: Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' Apparently there is a Japanese band named Do As Infinity that had a first album named 'Tangerine Dream'. (Wonder if Edgar knows about this one!) From the track names I'd guess it is a dub album (TD, Wings, Simple Minds). Beware! I found a place that was selling it as a Tangerine Dream rarity for big $$$$. Ciao -- Mark -- Sig: Check out http://www.audiogalaxy.com/groups/group.php?&gID=180990 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31085 Re: Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' Joe Shoults Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB From: mengels@w... Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 4:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Concerning later KS >>I'm afraid I completely can't understand some things >>from 80s KS material... For example Sebastian in Traum >>from Audentity - is it a joke or what? And there are >>many other tracks that are close to this annoying >>style, even Sense from Live which seems to be very >>popular on the official KS website. Some of the things from the 80s I don't like either but Sense from Live is a super-classic imo. One of his better live 70s tracks. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl mengels@w... ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 4:59 pm Subject: Re: Quadrophonic Hi, that concept of making the difference audible... is that the trick suggested on Brian Eno's 'Ambient' LP-s? I vaguely remember that the cover notes explain how to connect a third speaker using not a signal and ground but both signals from both outputs (left and right) and to get some more spacial effect - with three speakers, not four. So you sit in a triangle of speakers. Which makes sense, as three points define a plane. a. --- In tadream@y..., 'John Marchington' wrote: > I don't think you're totally correct about this, Mark. If I remember > correctly, there were three different types of quadraphony used in the days > of LPs: QS, SQ and CD-4 (and the latter had nothing to do with compact > disc!). The first two used forms of sum and difference modulation to combine > the four channels into two so that they could be played with a standard > stereo cartridge, while the CD-4 method used a very high frequency carrier > (about 45kHz) and the four channels of audio were modulated on that as sum > and difference signals -- a bit like stereo FM. Clearly, the latter required > the use of a cartridge that would respond to those HF signals. Inevitably, > cantilever resonances meant that there was going to be a fairly high degree > of groove wear with the latter as well. Not surprisingly, all three systems > were incompatible with one another (shades of SACD and DVD-A?) and thus > required their own special decoders to reconstruct the four channels of > audio. One could get away with using separate amplifiers for the rear > channels and feeding the out-of-phase signals from the front channels to > them, but the results weren't very impressive (at least with SQ, which was > all I had). That, and the mechanical constraints of cartridges and records > that existed at the time, generally meant that none of them were likely to > take off in a big way. > > The situation is completely different with both SACD and DVD-A and its quite > likely that spectacular results can be obtained from a really good, well set > up multi-channel system with either of the above. In my opinion, however, > that will require a large room with all the speakers at a reasonable > distance from the listener(s) so that detail (even if it is just ambience) > from all channels can be experienced. I don't have that luxury, so I'm > sticking with stereo. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Mark Filipak' > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic > > > > I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side to side > (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations up and > down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The record > plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but a quad > phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back channels. > Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look like > the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is being > decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back channels are > not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the soundspace > (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was > impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money for a quad > phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the story > with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. > > > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > > > 'Alpha Centauri' > > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > > > 'Zeit' > > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll > resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > > > Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware engineer) > > > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I haven't > > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. I've got > some > > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where you have > > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > > > James > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > > > To: tadream@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel audio. > > > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how many of > > > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that there was > > > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > > > dummy... you > > > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, but I > > > > > could be > > > > > wrong... > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic Some system amp's use this method to double the power as well to your speaker so beware. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'armin_theissen' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:59 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > Hi, > > that concept of making the difference audible... is that > the trick suggested on Brian Eno's 'Ambient' LP-s? I vaguely > remember that the cover notes explain how to connect a third > speaker using not a signal and ground but both signals from > both outputs (left and right) and to get some more spacial > effect - with three speakers, not four. So you sit in a triangle > of speakers. Which makes sense, as three points define a plane. > > a. > > --- In tadream@y..., 'John Marchington' wrote: > > I don't think you're totally correct about this, Mark. If I remember > > correctly, there were three different types of quadraphony used in > the days > > of LPs: QS, SQ and CD-4 (and the latter had nothing to do with > compact > > disc!). The first two used forms of sum and difference modulation to > combine > > the four channels into two so that they could be played with a > standard > > stereo cartridge, while the CD-4 method used a very high frequency > carrier > > (about 45kHz) and the four channels of audio were modulated on that > as sum > > and difference signals -- a bit like stereo FM. Clearly, the latter > required > > the use of a cartridge that would respond to those HF signals. > Inevitably, > > cantilever resonances meant that there was going to be a fairly high > degree > > of groove wear with the latter as well. Not surprisingly, all three > systems > > were incompatible with one another (shades of SACD and DVD-A?) and > thus > > required their own special decoders to reconstruct the four channels > of > > audio. One could get away with using separate amplifiers for the > rear > > channels and feeding the out-of-phase signals from the front > channels to > > them, but the results weren't very impressive (at least with SQ, > which was > > all I had). That, and the mechanical constraints of cartridges and > records > > that existed at the time, generally meant that none of them were > likely to > > take off in a big way. > > > > The situation is completely different with both SACD and DVD-A and > its quite > > likely that spectacular results can be obtained from a really good, > well set > > up multi-channel system with either of the above. In my opinion, > however, > > that will require a large room with all the speakers at a reasonable > > distance from the listener(s) so that detail (even if it is just > ambience) > > from all channels can be experienced. I don't have that luxury, so > I'm > > sticking with stereo. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'Mark Filipak' > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic > > > > > > > I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side > to side > > (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations > up and > > down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The > record > > plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but > a quad > > phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back > channels. > > Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look > like > > the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is > being > > decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back > channels are > > not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the > soundspace > > (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was > > impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money > for a quad > > phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the > story > > with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. > > > > > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases > were quad: > > > > > > 'Alpha Centauri' > > > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > > > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > > > > > 'Zeit' > > > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > > > > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > > > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > > > > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. > I'll > > resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > > > > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is > solicited. > > > > > > Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware > engineer) > > > > > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I > haven't > > > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. > I've got > > some > > > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where > you have > > > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > > > > To: tadream@y... > > > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > > > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel > audio. > > > > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how > many of > > > > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that > there was > > > > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > > > > dummy... you > > > > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, > but I > > > > > > could be > > > > > > wrong... > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Dmitriy V N Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: Re: Concerning later KS >I find Sebastian im (im, not in) Traum maybe the best of KS's >ambient/experimental/whatever pieces of music. > Really 'im'... I forgot it's german, not english. BTW what is 'Traum'? >It's a great exploration of >sounds, with melodies coming and going and being born and dying... maybe with >time you'll like it. It's just a matter of taste anyway... > Yeah, just another 30 years and I'll like it, I suppose. >The Audentity >booklet has a nice written interpretation of the album. The title says 'The >story of Sebastian and a search for self-identity via the sounds and music of >Klaus Schulze'. It was written by Garry Havrillay, from Radio 3PBS-FM from >Melbourne, Australia. > Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont like. Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31077 Re: Concerning later KS zathrus13 Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 31089 Re: Concerning later KS Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/7/2002 4 KB From: 'zathrus13' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 5:40 pm Subject: Re: Concerning later KS > Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite > tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival > Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other > related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont > like. > > Regards, > Dmitriy Funny how things work....The Dome Event is one of my favorites...it cover a lot of different styles and themes.... Jeff From: Erik Sanborn Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 6:09 pm Subject: Re: Quadrophonic > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > From: 'Admin' (snip) >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I remember reading >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player that I keep in >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > >Dale (delurking for a moment...) I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated quad 8-track player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among other things, poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of difference in the 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and get slightly better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play the same album on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being blown away by Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the sound image was sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to me. An added bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two programs instead of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be faded out and back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 suffered from all the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that they went the way of the dodo. Regards, Erik From: 'Michael Jean' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Haslinger website has been completely redone www.haslinger.com Regards, Michael A. Jean The Brookings Institution, Room 821 1775 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20036-2188 TEL: (202)-797-6214 FAX: (202)-797-2479 EMAIL: mjean@b... http://www.brookings.edu [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31084 Haslinger website has been completely redone tei waz Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 7:13 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Quadrophonic It may be AlphaCent/Atem double LP... I'll have to check The album is at my parents' house about 7 hours from here, so I'll get the info when I'm up there next. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl > releases were quad: > > 'Alpha Centauri' > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > 'Zeit' > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad > album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in > Quadrophonic. I haven't > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic > system. I've got some > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, > where you have > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > James From: 'H.' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 11:01 pm Subject: AW: [tadream] TD concert tapes Hi. how comes? didn't those old synths also do 20 Hz till 20kHz? Herbert -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: Admin [mailto:admin@k...] Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Januar 2002 23:07 An: tadream@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [tadream] TD concert tapes How right you are on this. Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear on these old tapes. ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'simonfay2001' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 6:57 pm Subject: Tatort Music Dug out my old old tape of the 'Das Maedchen Auf Der Treppe' 12' and wondered what 'Daydream' is like. I presume the 1997 'DMADT' was a travesty...? Is there any other music by TD floating around for this series? It seems to have run for a good few years - anyone in Germany back then able to tell me anything about the show? thanks SF Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31087 Re: Tatort Music scfeldman@j... Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:08 pm Subject: Spock What a DEAL! I guess Spock was sort of my idol as a kid. I read the encyclopedia a lot and gathered as much information as I could about everything imaginable. I got a reputation early on as a 'smarty-pants' because I remember most everything I ever knew... Live Long and Prosper! > -----Original Message----- > At 02.01.05 22:38, horrod6 wrote: > >'Best LOTR song: Ballad of Bilbo Baggins sung by Leonard Nimoy....' > > > >ROFLMAO > > Many years ago I found an *autographed* copy of the > LP 'The Two > Faces of Leonard Nimoy' which has TBoBB on it as well as his classic > 'Totally Illogical' > Paid $5 for it. From: 'tei waz' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:33 pm Subject: re:Haslinger website has been completely redone >Haslinger website has been completely redone from Paul's chronology (at www.haslinger.com): >1987 [...] Mill Valley Film Festival Live Performance< What's with this performance?--edgar's got the year wrong (1983?) on antique dreams and paul's got it wrong on his chronology. It was 1986! I know, I was there. --T _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' There's a link to one of their songs on our 'Audio Links' page at http://www.tadream.net. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 10:40 AM > To: Beyond_EM; Tadream > Subject: [tadream] Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' > > > Apparently there is a Japanese band named Do As Infinity that > had a first album named 'Tangerine Dream'. (Wonder if Edgar > knows about this one!) From the track names I'd guess it is a > dub album (TD, Wings, Simple Minds). Beware! I found a place > that was selling it as a Tangerine Dream rarity for big $$$$. > > Ciao -- Mark > -- > Sig: Check out http://www.audiogalaxy.com/groups/group.php?&gID=180990 > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: RJF Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Want list In message <3C3977B3.58B70565@h...>, Heiko Heerssen writes >Hi Gang, >I now have a TD want list which one can find at >'http://members.tripod.de/Network23/wants.html' >Please email me off-list in case you have something on that list and >would like to part with it :-) > >Regards >Heiko Not impressed by your site with the annoying advert. Will never go there again! -- Richard F From: scfeldman@j... Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 9:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tatort Music On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:57:41 -0000 'simonfay2001' writes: >Dug out my old old tape of the 'Das Maedchen Auf Der Treppe' >12' and wondered what 'Daydream' is like. I presume the >1997 'DMADT' was a travesty...? Um, hardly -- and it was recently re-issued as track 7 on DREAM MIXES III. Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 9:53 pm Subject: Paul Ellis plug (was RE: [tadream] Re: TD concert trading) I may have done this before, but I'll offer an enthusiastic plug for Pauls 'Into the Liquid Unknown'. Absolutely fantastic! Support one of our own (listmember musicians) and order it now! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] ... > splumer@w... writes: > > . So, how about 'Vic's Picks'? ... > *Best idea/comparison to the situation I know of. > Paul Ellis > Binary recordings - www.hypnos.com > 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. np: IQ - Subterranea Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31100 Re: Paul Ellis plug (was RE: [tadream] Re: TD co Synthhtnys@a... Tue 1/8/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 10:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS >Really 'im'... I forgot it's german, not english. BTW >what is 'Traum'? Traum means 'dream'. >Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite >tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival >Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other >related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont >like. Royal Festival Hall is one of my first contacts with KS. I had heard and liked a lot 2 tracks from Beyond Recall, from the same period (the Gringo Nero intro and specially Brave Old Sequence), and I found RFH Vol.1 for rent, so I rented it and made a CDR copy for myself. I still have that copy. At first, I didn't like it at all; things took such a long time to happen - the intro, a bunch of various samples (it was KS's sampling period, the early 90s), was so hard to listen to. But I was interested in hearing all of it, so I heard and the first thing I liked was the constant pulse that underlined all the music. Still, for me it was a strange and hard album to listen to (as Zeit), I only liked the climaxes: Yearning, in track 1, and Fire-Riser, a spectacular sequenced section from track 2 (a studio bonus in the album). Every time I listened to this CD (I rarely did, actually) I liked it more, and noticed the very subtle development of the music (as happens with the majority of KS's music). Now I regard RFH Vol.1 an excellent album with very interesting music. I never heard the others you mentioned, nor RFH Vol.2. -GJ p.s. Zeit remains a strange and hard album. At least I've managed to find the remaster for a very very good price (one third the regular price of imported CDs), so I just had to buy it. One less CDR to substitute... But I like Zeit, just because it's a very well done work. The music is hard to listen, but it's just a perfect Largo in 4 Movements with all that space conotation the album cover and track titles have. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 12:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages involved that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit hazy about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, with the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) terminals of the amplifier outputs, and with the speakers' negative terminals then connected together. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'armin_theissen' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 5:59 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > Hi, > > that concept of making the difference audible... is that > the trick suggested on Brian Eno's 'Ambient' LP-s? I vaguely > remember that the cover notes explain how to connect a third > speaker using not a signal and ground but both signals from > both outputs (left and right) and to get some more spacial > effect - with three speakers, not four. So you sit in a triangle > of speakers. Which makes sense, as three points define a plane. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 12:10 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is positive to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the math, generally by half.) Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Marchington' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages involved > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit hazy > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, with > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 12:44 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS I've got all those albums and I'm beginning to think that Klaus often 'plays' with his audiences; i.e. there is a fair amount of 'tongue-in-cheek' in his music and the way he presents it. That female voice ('Is that it?') for example. There are other occasions when he will suddenly change tempo or dynamics when one least expects it and race off in another direction. You either like that or you don't. There are all sorts of extraordinary noises in the RFH concerts and 'Beyond Recall' as well, for example. I'm sure it's all part of his act and you either love him for it -- or hate it. Personally, I find it all immensely fascinating and it often makes TD seem rather ordinary in comparison. I also agree that 'Sebastian im Traum' from 'Audentity' is brilliant with Wolfgang Tiepold's cello playing a feature of the album generally -- as it is elsewhere. I'm also very fond of 'Moondawn', 'The Dresden Performance' and 'Are You Sequenced?' sets, but right from 'Irrlicht' onwards, all the albums have something positive to offer, although I'm a trifle luke-warm about 'Dune' and some of 'Dosburg Online' at this stage and I'm still after an English translation for 'Totentag'. In general musical terms, I love his sense of rhythm and the way he uses modulation (changes in key) so effectively. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Gustavo Jobim' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS > > >Really 'im'... I forgot it's german, not english. BTW > >what is 'Traum'? > > Traum means 'dream'. > > >Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite > >tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival > >Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other > >related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont > >like. > > Royal Festival Hall is one of my first contacts with KS. > I had heard and liked a lot 2 tracks from Beyond Recall, > from the same period (the Gringo Nero intro and specially > Brave Old Sequence), and I found RFH Vol.1 for rent, so > I rented it and made a CDR copy for myself. I still have > that copy. > > At first, I didn't like it at all; things took such a long > time to happen - the intro, a bunch of various samples (it was > KS's sampling period, the early 90s), was so hard to listen to. > But I was interested in hearing all of it, so I heard and the first > thing I liked was the constant pulse that underlined all the music. > Still, for me it was a strange and hard album to listen to (as Zeit), > I only liked the climaxes: Yearning, in track 1, and Fire-Riser, a > spectacular sequenced section from track 2 (a studio bonus in the > album). Every time I listened to this CD (I rarely did, actually) > I liked it more, and noticed the very subtle development of the music > (as happens with the majority of KS's music). Now I regard RFH Vol.1 > an excellent album with very interesting music. > > I never heard the others you mentioned, nor RFH Vol.2. > > -GJ > > p.s. Zeit remains a strange and hard album. At least I've managed to > find the remaster for a very very good price (one third the regular > price of imported CDs), so I just had to buy it. One less CDR to > substitute... > But I like Zeit, just because it's a very well done work. The music > is hard to listen, but it's just a perfect Largo in 4 Movements > with all that space conotation the album cover and track titles have. > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 1:23 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if they were connected in parallel. With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half the impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater than each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is positive > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the math, > generally by half.) > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'John Marchington' > To: > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > involved > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit > hazy > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, with > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 2:33 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic Ok, I missunderstood you. Do you remember the Carvin Sonic Holography processors in the 80's? I liked mine very much till it was borrowed permently one day. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Marchington' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not > connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if they > were connected in parallel. > With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously > varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the > combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half the > impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater than > each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is > positive > > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the > math, > > generally by half.) > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > admin@k... > > 661-723-0266 > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'John Marchington' > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > > involved > > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit > > hazy > > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, > with > > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 2:59 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic No I'm afraid I don't recall that processor. When you say 'borrowed' do you mean that you loaned it to someone who then disappeared unexpectedly without returning it to you -- or was it simply stolen. Either way, I'm obviously sorry for you. A friend of mine had his house burgled while he was down staying with my brother and me last weekend -- CD player, video recorder and other equipment stolen. I admit I worry about the safety of my gear -- and all my TD, KS and other EM CDs! It's all insured --- but that won't necessarily enable it to be replaced. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Admin' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > Ok, I missunderstood you. Do you remember the Carvin Sonic Holography > processors in the 80's? I liked mine very much till it was borrowed > permently one day. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'John Marchington' > To: > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:23 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not > > connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if > they > > were connected in parallel. > > With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously > > varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the > > combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half > the > > impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater than > > each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > > > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is > > positive > > > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > > > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the > > math, > > > generally by half.) > > > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > > admin@k... > > > 661-723-0266 > > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: 'John Marchington' > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > > > involved > > > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a > bit > > > hazy > > > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, > > with > > > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 3:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic Stolen would be the word, well over 10k worth in the mid 90's. I been replacing every since. The Insurance did not cover it all at all. I had to go to court and settle for far less than it was worth. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Marchington' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > No I'm afraid I don't recall that processor. When you say 'borrowed' do you > mean that you loaned it to someone who then disappeared unexpectedly without > returning it to you -- or was it simply stolen. Either way, I'm obviously > sorry for you. A friend of mine had his house burgled while he was down > staying with my brother and me last weekend -- CD player, video recorder and > other equipment stolen. I admit I worry about the safety of my gear -- and > all my TD, KS and other EM CDs! It's all insured --- but that won't > necessarily enable it to be replaced. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Admin' > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:33 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > Ok, I missunderstood you. Do you remember the Carvin Sonic Holography > > processors in the 80's? I liked mine very much till it was borrowed > > permently one day. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'John Marchington' > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not > > > connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if > > they > > > were connected in parallel. > > > With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously > > > varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the > > > combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half > > the > > > impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater > than > > > each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > > > > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is > > > positive > > > > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > > > > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the > > > math, > > > > generally by half.) > > > > > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > > > admin@k... > > > > 661-723-0266 > > > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: 'John Marchington' > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > > > > involved > > > > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a > > bit > > > > hazy > > > > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > > > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in > series, > > > with > > > > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 4:44 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic That's terrible! I did lend a pre-amp I once built to a friend of mine -- and never saw it again. (Did I say friend?) I also loaned an LP to someone who was flatting nearby and when I went around to collect it a fortnight or so later, he had gone with no forwarding address and taken the disc with him. Apart from those two incidents, I've been lucky although you soon learn not to trust people!. I know someone else whose been burgled four times with a CD player and CDs taken on each occasion. On the last occasion she arrived home from work -- and from the hallway wondered how she could see her back lawn when she hadn't been able to see it previously from there. It was only when she got to the kitchen that she realised the back door had been smashed off its hinges and what remained of it was leaning against the rear wall outside. The culprits were eventually apprehended -- young teenagers -- but she never got anything back and her insurance company started to become rather uncooperative after a while. Apart from not having an alarm at the time (which she was instructed to buy), she always locked all doors and windows when out. I'll be interested to find if the friend I spoke about earlier recovers his equipment. The CD player and video player stolen were originally ours which we had given him. He suspects a neighbour. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Admin' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > Stolen would be the word, well over 10k worth in the mid 90's. I been > replacing every since. The Insurance did not cover it all at all. I had to > go to court and settle for far less than it was worth. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 4:51 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS In a message dated 1/7/02 4:45:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, johnm@p... writes: << I've got all those albums and I'm beginning to think that Klaus often 'plays' with his audiences; i.e. there is a fair amount of 'tongue-in-cheek' in his music and the way he presents it. That female voice ('Is that it?') for example. *My only problem is that samples like that were so incredibly overplayed in the albums from the 80's through the 90's... Though he lately seems to have finally moved on and is trying something different. (even though highly recognizable as Schulze) Personally, I find it all immensely fascinating and it often makes TD seem rather ordinary in comparison. *Even with my criticisms of him I'd agree somewhat. Schulze seems to have stayed with a more visionary approach where TD has delved into more mainstream styles.. (Though I love DM3) but right from 'Irrlicht' onwards, all the albums have something positive to offer, *Yup. although I'm a trifle luke-warm about 'Dune' and some of 'Dosburg Online' at this stage *I'd throw Dig it and Angst in as mediocre 'Weird Caravan may be one of the worst things he ever did IMO. and I'm still after an English translation for 'Totentag'. In general musical terms, I love his sense of rhythm and the way he uses modulation (changes in key) so effectively. >> *Absolutely. His key changes are one thing that sets him apart. Poly From: 'Greg' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 5:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS It amazes me whenever you guys talk about Schulze. On just about every e-mail regarding this musician, there is always mentioned some Schulze album I have never heard of! Is this guy prolific or what?! Greg H. From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:28 am Subject: Re: Paul Ellis plug (was RE: [tadream] Re: TD concert trading) In a message dated 1/7/02 1:40:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, jshoults@f... writes: << I may have done this before, but I'll offer an enthusiastic plug for Pauls 'Into the Liquid Unknown'. Absolutely fantastic! Support one of our own (listmember musicians) and order it now! Joe >> *Thanks Joe. Your comments are appreciated. The response so far has been fantastic! If anyone's interested they can hear soundbites at www.hypnos.com Click on the Binary section on the left side and scroll down to Binary sound bites... that'll give you a little taste... Peace out Poly From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 9:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS He certainly is. Might I suggest you visit his official website and check his discography at http://www.klaus-schulze.com/disco/welcome.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Greg' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS > It amazes me whenever you guys talk about Schulze. On just about every > e-mail regarding this musician, there is always mentioned some Schulze album > I have never heard of! Is this guy prolific or what?! > > Greg H. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 2:20 pm Subject: Some (legal) CD's for sale or trade Having returned from my winter sojourn in the United Kingdom, I went into the roof of my old place and retreived three CD's that might be of interest to the collectors. Needless to say, after what's been said here recently, they are all legal. So I would like to sell or trade the following: TANGERINE DREAM: Shepherd's Bush (No 1211 out of a limited edition of 2000) TDI006CD TANGERINE DREAM: Quinoa (original TDIFC edition on Volt records (VOLT 0001 CD MXMII) CHRISTOPHER FRANKE:Bridge to Eternity (strange shaped, but playable, picture disc (SONIC IMAGES 37 392-414) Please contact me off-list if interested. Roger Hartopp -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'horrod6' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 6:47 pm Subject: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) Jim, I dug out my 1976 Virgin copy (VD 2504) of this. There's nothing in the sleeve notes, and the record labels say 'Stereo'. However, on the outside back cover it does say 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Having never owned a quad system, I can't comment further. LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31109 Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophoni Mark Filipak Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31119 Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophoni Erik Sanborn Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:06 pm Subject: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Erik, I'd like to hear the sound of this. Do you think it's possible to encode the four channels into 4 channels of Dolby Surround (leave out the center channel and playback in 'Phantom' mode)? Another possibility would be the soundblaster Live soundcard, which has a four-speaker mode. I'm sure there's a way to record in on four channels so you can output in four channel mode. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:10 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > > From: 'Admin' > > (snip) > > >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I > remember reading > >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player > that I keep in > >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > > > >Dale > > (delurking for a moment...) > > I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated > quad 8-track > player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. > > The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among > other things, > poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four > channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of > difference in the > 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and > get slightly > better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play > the same album > on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being > blown away by > Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the > sound image was > sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to > me. An added > bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two > programs instead > of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be > faded out and > back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 > suffered from all > the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that > they went the > way of the dodo. > > Regards, > > Erik > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31105 Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 1/8/2002 6 KB 31121 Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Erik Sanborn Wed 1/9/2002 5 KB 31133 Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Owens, James Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tubular Bells Quad-8track better yet why not redo this song in midi take the different tracks output to the surround processor then play back with a 5.1 system? I have several midi of Tubular Bells. I am one version I have reworked a lot. It almost sounds like the record. I have played with the 5.1 process a bit now and yes, it can be a wonderful experience. This was what I was referring to in a eerier post when I mentioned I have been playing with sound placement in a small room with my synths. My next project will be to take Tangram and redo it similar to Tubular Bells. This is for personal enjoyment, not for resale or anything else in case I raise some eye brows here. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Owens, James' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:06 AM Subject: [tadream] Tubular Bells Quad-8track > Erik, > > I'd like to hear the sound of this. Do you think it's possible to encode > the four channels into 4 channels of Dolby Surround (leave out the center > channel and playback in 'Phantom' mode)? Another possibility would be the > soundblaster Live soundcard, which has a four-speaker mode. I'm sure > there's a way to record in on four channels so you can output in four > channel mode. > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:10 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > > > From: 'Admin' > > > > (snip) > > > > >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I > > remember reading > > >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player > > that I keep in > > >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > > > > > >Dale > > > > (delurking for a moment...) > > > > I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated > > quad 8-track > > player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. > > > > The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among > > other things, > > poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four > > channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of > > difference in the > > 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and > > get slightly > > better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play > > the same album > > on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being > > blown away by > > Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the > > sound image was > > sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to > > me. An added > > bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two > > programs instead > > of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be > > faded out and > > back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 > > suffered from all > > the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that > > they went the > > way of the dodo. > > > > Regards, > > > > Erik > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:38 pm Subject: Burglary (was : RE: Quadrophonic) I had nearly everything of value extracted from my house while I was on temporary assignment in California. Insurance paid for most everything (except for some of my wife's jewelry) and I got a nicer stereo out of the deal. The insurance company (of course) immediately cancelled my insurance. I had to get high-risk insurance after that until I moved into a new house. Fortunately they only grabbed one shelf of CDs, and that was primarily pop (I did loose the first Enya CD - which is out of print - and a pretty rare Enya single). They didn't get a single TD disc, but they did get most of my Genesis. > -----Original Message----- > From: John Marchington [mailto:johnm@p...] > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 10:45 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > That's terrible! I did lend a pre-amp I once built to a > friend of mine -- > and never saw it again. (Did I say friend?) I also loaned an > LP to someone > who was flatting nearby and when I went around to collect it > a fortnight or > so later, he had gone with no forwarding address and taken > the disc with > him. Apart from those two incidents, I've been lucky although > you soon learn > not to trust people!. I know someone else whose been burgled > four times with > a CD player and CDs taken on each occasion. On the last > occasion she arrived > home from work -- and from the hallway wondered how she could > see her back > lawn when she hadn't been able to see it previously from > there. It was only > when she got to the kitchen that she realised the back door > had been smashed > off its hinges and what remained of it was leaning against > the rear wall > outside. The culprits were eventually apprehended -- young > teenagers -- but > she never got anything back and her insurance company started > to become > rather uncooperative after a while. Apart from not having an > alarm at the > time (which she was instructed to buy), she always locked all > doors and > windows when out. I'll be interested to find if the friend I > spoke about > earlier recovers his equipment. The CD player and video > player stolen were > originally ours which we had given him. He suspects a neighbour. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Admin' > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:19 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > Stolen would be the word, well over 10k worth in the mid > 90's. I been > > replacing every since. The Insurance did not cover it all > at all. I had to > > go to court and settle for far less than it was worth. > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 8:06 pm Subject: Release date New ASHRA Hi all, the official Release date of the both NEW Releases The Making of ... and @shra Vol. 2 you can find on www.tribute-to-ashra.de Regards heiko / burg / germany http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'theta2.geo' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 9:57 am Subject: Barrie J. Vanenbergh??? Does anybody know what happened to Barrie J. Vanenbergh (=Hans-Joachim Schmitz) (see CD-sampler 'Syntonic Waves Vol. 6')? Any news about him and/ or his music? Andreas From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 11:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) Marion. Could you supply more information, please. What you have is NOT SUPPOSED to be quad.! Here's the info I have ________________________________________________________________________ Alpha Centauri + Atem __________________ __/ Recordings - AAA \________________________________________________ LPx2 - Disk 1: 'Alpha Centauri', Disk 2: 'Atem' [1976] Virgin (DE) 87761 [1976] Virgin/Dischi (IT) [1976] Virgin (GB) VD 2504 AORL 28376 [1976] Virgin (DE) 267 6712 [1976] Virgin/PolyGram (CA) [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU VMD 2222 (quadraphonic) [1976] Virgin/Festival (AU) [1976] Brain (DE) 2/1082 L-45751/52 [19??] Rel. (CA) 88561-8069-1 ________________________________________________________________________ Is your VD 2504 a UK pressing? Are you sure it's VD 2504? -- check the labels and the album jacket. Could the album jacket have gotten mixed up with a German release? Wondering... Ciao (mein) -- Mark horrod6 wrote: > > I dug out my 1976 Virgin copy (VD 2504) of this. There's nothing in the > sleeve notes, and the record labels say 'Stereo'. However, on the outside > back cover it does say 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Having never owned a > quad system, I can't comment further. > > LnH > > Marion From: 'koulos' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 12:52 pm Subject: audio cd 22 dear all you may the type of td-list member that listen to td music and are not interested in collecting strange things but for those of you that do collect anything td related this is for you it came acroos my hands before Xmas and i am not trading it but i have my eyes open if i came across another. it a cd provided by a greek magazine named AUDIO you can see scan's of the cd at the following web site http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/cover.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/backcover.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/front.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/back.jpg there is also a image of the inside of the booklet [in greek language] that i will upload later thanxs and i am waiting to hear if anyone else out there know of this certain cd [it is a rumor that TD appeared in another AUDIO cd too but i have not found it yet -still looking ] all the best kostas from greece [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 1:21 pm Subject: http://www.elektropolis.de/ Hi, german speakers may find http://www.elektropolis.de/ very interesting: the webpage and story of the legendary and world's first synth-only music shop 'Synthesizerstudio Matten und Wiechers, Bonn'. Extremely amusing to read - as I'm used to (bought my first synth there loooon time ago - just like Schulze, Froese, Kraftwerk...) don't miss the great collection of their historic advertisements! armin From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 2:16 pm Subject: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Hi Gang, during the last few days I was toying with the idea to create a successor to the 'Digital tape tree' CDR series which (as far as I know) stopped at Disc no. 25. About four years ago I started collecting & upgrading my collection of live recordings by exchanging tapes & cdr's with many other TD collectors around the world (many of them are on the mailing list). I know that I have a considerable number of recordings which were not easy to obtain (master tapes or 2nd & 3rd generation copies...Al, where are you?! ;-), and I would like to share my best sounding recordings with those who are interested in hearing them. And maybe other 'die-hard' collectors also want to make their contribution. Regarding live concert recordings I have the following concerts in mind: -Sheffield 29.10.74 1st gen., Nottingham 8.11.76 1st gen., London 2.4.75 BBC master tape, Paris 16.08.75 4th gen., London Olympia 22.10.75 2nd gen., Croydon 23.10.75 1st gen., London 7.6.76 1st gen., Berlin 27.6.76 FM, Düsseldorf 21.10.76 2nd gen., Brussels 16.11.76 3rd gen., excerpts from Paris 22.11.76 3rd gen, excerpts of Seattle 21.4.77 3rd gen., Hamburg 24.2.78...and a lot more :-) But mostly the music will consist of concerts from the early 70's to 80's, and only from low & known generation copies. I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape tree', but what I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his ok, but only if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I also have to think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name) Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been officially released.) Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31113 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? atye@a... Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31138 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Deb H-J Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31139 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Ken Beal Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31115 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Antonio Nunes Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31116 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Synthhtnys@a... Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31120 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? zathrus13 Wed 1/9/2002 4 KB 31123 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Joe Shoults Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31129 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31131 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: atye@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 2:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Heiko, I think it would be a great idea. I am not sure how to help get it all started, but there has GOT to be an original name you could use. (tangerines....trees....there's a connection there somewhere...hmmmmmmm) Good luck, Alex (ATYE) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31138 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Deb H-J Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31139 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Ken Beal Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: 'Nigel Merrick' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 3:30 pm Subject: Reason and TD Hi All Was wondering if anyone on the list is using Propellerhead's Reason software to write TD-sounding music and would be willing to share Subtractor Synth/NN19 sampler patches. Cheers in advance, Nigel Merrick NP: Oasis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31117 Re: Reason and TD Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/9/2002 4 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Heiko Heerssen wrote: > > I know that I have a considerable number of recordings which were not > easy to obtain (master tapes or 2nd & 3rd generation copies...Al, where > are you?! ;-), and I would like to share my best sounding recordings > with those who are interested in hearing them. > (...) > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all... Sure there will be big interest! I'd be very happy to participate as a branch of this tree. Antonio From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? In a message dated 1/9/2002 8:18:29 AM Central Standard Time, heiko.heerssen@h... writes: > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't > think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic > improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been > officially released.) > > Heiko > *I'd be interested... Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and TD I am toying with Reason right now. I have been able to get some sounds that work so far. I have only been toying with it for a month now so I am not the expert to ask but I am willing to share what I learn in return for the same. Let me know. So far all I have done is to use the existing demos, stretch them out, mod them, alter them. This program has a lot of features and mods you can do. You can keep it simple or go complex. I have also been able to link it up to my nano synths and korg ms2000. I have some other midi controls on the side that works well with it too. Like I said, I am just starting to toy with it. I think it has promise. Another item is I am just using the built in sound card on the test system to toy with it. I am not sure yet if I can get anymore out of it using a better card or a surround card yet. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Nigel Merrick' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 7:30 AM Subject: [tadream] Reason and TD > Hi All > > Was wondering if anyone on the list is using Propellerhead's Reason software > to write TD-sounding music and would be willing to share Subtractor > Synth/NN19 sampler patches. > > Cheers in advance, > > Nigel Merrick > > NP: Oasis > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord Reason is definitely cool, but if someone was interested in creating the modular sounds of classic TD for a very reasonable price I would HIGHLY suggest looking into the Clavia Nord Micro Modular (about $500 US) It works with a PC and has the most amazing emulation of a modular sound I've heard. Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31122 Re: Reason and Nord mengels@w... Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31210 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! goozergrafx Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31254 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! mengels@w... Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31127 Re: Reason and Nord Synthhtnys@a... Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31135 Re: Reason and Nord mengels@w... Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31137 Re: Reason and Nord Synthhtnys@a... Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Erik Sanborn Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) Hi Marion, My single LP of Atem on the Ohr label also says, 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Nowhere does it state what quad format the LP is encoded as so my guess is that the LP is simply stereo. Perhaps after the recording sessions the rear channels were folded back into the front channels for the stereo LP mix. This practice was not uncommon in the mid-1970's. Anyone else want to comment on this? Regards, Erik > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 18:47:31 -0000 > From: 'horrod6' >Subject: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) > >Jim, > >I dug out my 1976 Virgin copy (VD 2504) of this. There's nothing in the >sleeve notes, and the record labels say 'Stereo'. However, on the outside >back cover it does say 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Having never owned a >quad system, I can't comment further. > >LnH > >Marion From: 'zathrus13' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:32 pm Subject: Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? > I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape tree', but what I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his ok, but only if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I also have to think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name). __________________________ Here's some 'tree' info, from 'The Plantation', a Flower Kings CDR trading group : 1. Planting a Tree .... First somebody decides they have a show or collection of tracks that they wish to share with the list. An announcement is then made that he/she would like to make this available to the list. The announcement will request certain information to be supplied in the responses, usually NAME, e-mail ADDRESS, COUNTRY, BURNER CAPABLE, HOW MANY LEAVES. A deadline will be set when no further signups will be accepted. (the tree has to be planted sometime :-) The responses to the announcement, if supplied correctly (this is important) will enable the tree planter to arrange the trunk, branches, and leaves in such a manner to minimise shipping distances, and therefore costs. Seed | |--Branch 1 | |-----Leaf 1.1 | |-----Leaf 1.2 | |-----Leaf 1.3 | |-----Leaf 1.4 | |--Branch 2 | |-----Leaf 2.1 | |-----Leaf 2.2 | |-----Leaf 2.3 | | etc etc Once the tree structure has been determined it is drawn up and presented to the list. This then enables leaves to contact branches and branches to contact trunk to arrange terms (B&P*, trade, etc.) and confirm delivery addresses. Soon after the tree structure is announced the seed will distribute copies to each branch. The branch will then copy and ship to each leaf on receipt of agreed terms. Everybody ends up happy ...... except those that missed the deadline. For them it is a case of waiting, checking the structure and arranging a private B&P, trade, etc. with somebody on the tree. Hope this helps. --- Jeff P.S. - I would be interested in participating. From: Erik Sanborn Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:34 pm Subject: Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track James, Unfortunately, I no longer have Tubular Bells on quad-8. (A sad story.) I wish I could hear it again. I only have a couple of quad-8's left. I have not played around with the various surround sound/home theater audio formats so I can't advise you as to what would be the best method of encoding 4 sound channels. Sorry. -Erik > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:06:10 -0600 > From: 'Owens, James' >Subject: Tubular Bells Quad-8track > >Erik, > >I'd like to hear the sound of this. Do you think it's possible to encode >the four channels into 4 channels of Dolby Surround (leave out the center >channel and playback in 'Phantom' mode)? Another possibility would be the >soundblaster Live soundcard, which has a four-speaker mode. I'm sure >there's a way to record in on four channels so you can output in four >channel mode. > >James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:10 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > > > From: 'Admin' > > > > (snip) > > > > >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I > > remember reading > > >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player > > that I keep in > > >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > > > > > >Dale > > > > (delurking for a moment...) > > > > I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated > > quad 8-track > > player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. > > > > The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among > > other things, > > poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four > > channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of > > difference in the > > 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and > > get slightly > > better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play > > the same album > > on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being > > blown away by > > Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the > > sound image was > > sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to > > me. An added > > bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two > > programs instead > > of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be > > faded out and > > back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 > > suffered from all > > the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that > > they went the > > way of the dodo. > > > > Regards, > > > > Erik From: mengels@w... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord >Reason is definitely cool, but if someone was interested in creating the >modular sounds of classic TD for a very reasonable price I would HIGHLY >suggest looking into >the Clavia Nord Micro Modular (about $500 US) It works with a PC and has the >most amazing emulation of a modular sound I've heard. Or you could buy a real new modular. :-) Quite some around and if you want 'that' sound then there's plenty of modulars around like the 'Arrick' synthesizers.com, MOTM, Doepfer etc. IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to 30 years ago, although most of the techno-kids probably think it's expensive because they use cracked versions of 303/moog emulations etc. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... Arrick-owner... ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31210 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! goozergrafx Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31254 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! mengels@w... Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:25 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] ... > I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape > tree', but what > I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked > Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his > ok, but only > if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a > 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I > also have to > think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the > 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name) > > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't > think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic > improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been > officially released.) > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31129 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31131 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:12 pm Subject: RE: CD 22 isn't 'Virtually Fields' from the CD22 the name of a Jerome TD webpage that has never been developed--i.e. something like 'jvfields' as I recall. --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31126 Re: CD 22 koulos Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Trying to get a grip on the old bull huh? At least before it is out of the gate. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: 'koulos' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: CD 22 actually virtually fields is the name of the track [no 20 in disc] and it cames from the album dream mixes I the web page thing doesn't reminds me of something but i am surrely not the person to anwser since i am not a TD diehard as many others on this list [but i am learning little bit;s every time i read the postings on this list] kostas ps interested to be a leaf too in this **tree** thing > isn't 'Virtually Fields' from the CD22 the name of a Jerome TD webpage > that has never been developed--i.e. something like 'jvfields' as I recall. > > --T > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord In a message dated 1/9/2002 11:56:40 AM Central Standard Time, mengels@w... writes: > IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to > 30 years ago, *Maybe, but not $500 US cheap... more like $3000 US. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:16 pm Subject: FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? somehow my message got cut off. Here is the full message: -----Original Message----- OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] ... > I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape > tree', but what > I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked > Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his > ok, but only > if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a > 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I > also have to > think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the > 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name) > > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't > think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic > improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been > officially released.) > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31130 FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Joe Shoults Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31132 FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? bigstupidgeek Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I am on another list that is set up for the sole purpose of trading and treeing music. As it seems some are new to this, or have questions, you might want to take a look at the home page for this group to learn more. There is a page link to a section all about trees. You will also note that this group does not take lightly profiting from said music and they _will_ go after people who do. On every cd cover from this group it clearly states that the music is to be traded only and is not for sale. Hope this helps some with this. Mike From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:32 pm Subject: FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? this is weird. it got cut off again, so I'm trying again (&*%#&@!) -----Original Message----- OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] ... > I don't have much experience about how [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Michael Fox Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Including the link would probably help sorry http://www.archivalgroup.f2s.com/ From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:36 pm Subject: FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? somehow my message got cut off. Here is the full message: -----Original Message----- OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather _tolerated_ by TDI.. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, 'live taping is a no-no but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe From: 'Owens, James' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:54 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track I understand. My dad lost around 30 8-tracks during a heat wave back in 1980. Our Air Conditioner went out and the house got so hot that the rubber wheels inside the cartridge melted all over the tape reel. > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:34 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track > > > James, > > Unfortunately, I no longer have Tubular Bells on quad-8. (A > sad story.) I > wish I could hear it again. I only have a couple of quad-8's left. From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 8:23 pm Subject: 3rd time's a charm, and listen to Paul sorry about the multiple posts to get my tree message through. ============================================================== So I was updating some of the links on my Audio Files page at http://www.tadream.net, and I ran across a stream of Paul's music. I've added it to the page under 'Other', and here is the URL: http://musicsojourn.com/Playlists/Echoes/v127-152/v145/Echoes_features145.ht m hi-fi version: http://musicsojourn.com/rampw/sub/eo/real/ram/v127-152/v145/eo-145-1-si.ram lo-fi version: http://musicsojourn.com/rampw/free/eo/real/ram/v127-152/v145/eo-145-1.ram For those of you who don't know about John Diliberto, Echoes or the musicsojourn site, you will be thrilled with what is there and find tons of great stuff to listen to. Most of it is RealAudio format. http://musicsojourn.com/index.html Joe > -----Original Message----- > somehow my message got cut off. Here is the full message: ... > This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should > be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then > it is OK on-list. From: mengels@w... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord >> IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to >> 30 years ago, > >*Maybe, but not $500 US cheap... more like $3000 US. >Poly Thats true, but I don't think such a machine can be build for $500. Even Ruud, my other band member, is buying one! He has got the Nord Modular and he heard one second of the Arrick and said that he can't get those sounds from the Nord Modular. And I consider him a better soundmaker then me. But it's not the tools that make the music, it's the man behind it of course. I was blown away by it's sound. And having total freedom and control when playing live was all I wanted. Little TD content...what are the odds of TD using these things again? Marcel ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail From: 'Steve' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:42 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? > during the last few days I was toying with the idea to create a > successor to the 'Digital tape tree' CDR series which (as far as I know) > stopped at Disc no. 25. Another interested one here! Steve www.craftman.co.uk www.rotties-r-us.co.uk From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:29 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord In a message dated 1/9/02 1:56:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, mengels@w... writes: << >*Maybe, but not $500 US cheap... more like $3000 US. >Poly Thats true, but I don't think such a machine can be build for $500. >> *This is true, but my original point of bringing it up on this list was for people who wanted to explore TD modular sounds on the cheap. ala Nord and Reason. Poly From: Deb H-J Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:29 am Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I would also like to participate in a Digital Tape Tree. I've never done one before, but I have a great machine and think its a fine idea. So chalk me up as another one! Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31139 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Ken Beal Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Ken Beal Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:47 am Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Count me as one who would participate.. Ken > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 2:13 am Subject: Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I would like to participate: Steve Whiteley I can be a branch for up to 3 leaves. Los Angeles, CA It may be that pooling our concert tapes/CDRs can help us have a more complete better sounding representation of Tangerine Dreams concerts. We may want to break up the tree/work into more manageable pieces. How many concerts are there? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 2:18 am Subject: Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Maybe the Froese's have a concert they would like to seed the tree with. ... It never hurts to ask, we are all dreamers here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:31 am Subject: [Tree] Tape tree > But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - > this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. > With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit > liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate > profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' Hello Joe (& others), I haven't interpreted Martin's info liberally, in fact what you wrote is almost identical to what *I* said to Martin yesterday when I told him about my idea the first time. I told him that this will be an entirely non-profit thing, and that I know that the 'TD staff' will not support the trading of bootlegs, and he fully agreed to what I said. He also told me that as long as there is no profit involved they will tolerate the new 'tree'. A while ago someone on this list said that these kind of activites are like a 'legal minefield', and I am aware of the consequences and can only appeal to future 'tree members' that they follow the 'rules' and don't sell their copies to other people to make some money (the rear cover artwork will include a statement like 'Produced by fans for fans - do not sell or buy, trade freely') Thanks to all those list members who already showed their interesting in participating, and to those who gave some information about how to set up a tape tree. I will keep your names & email addresses, but really it's WAY TOO EARLY to start now because: a) I haven't recorded a single CDR yet (and I want the music to sound as good as possible), as soon as I have a couple of concerts ready (maybe 7-10 cdr's, each will run up to 73 minutes) I will let you know so that we can start to think about the subscription deadline for those who are interested, etc etc. I haven't set myself a limit about how many Volumes there will be, guess I just wait and see what happens. b) I only have a PC here in my office, so please bear with me in case it takes a bit longer for me to respond to questions/suggestions. > So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how > it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal > trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. > Fair enough? yup. > This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be > handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK > on-list. yup yup :-) In case you have questions please contact me off-list at 'heiko.heerssen@h...' And my apologies to those people who are not interested in the 'tree'...just push the 'delete' button ;-) > BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like > [tree] or something. that's a good idea. Regards Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31152 Re: [Tree] Tape tree PENFOLD Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:35 am Subject: Seeding the tree > Maybe the Froese's have a concert they would like to seed the tree with. > ... > It never hurts to ask, we are all dreamers here. I'm afraid it will hurt if I'd ask them!! ;-) From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 11:25 am Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True Heiko Heerssen wrote: > > Hi Gang, > > during the last few days I was toying with the idea to create a > successor to the 'Digital tape tree' CDR series which (as far as I know) > stopped at Disc no. 25. I would like to participate. This is exactly what I have always dreamed of, so I propose that the project be named 'A Dream Come True'. (bring on the) Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31161 [tree] A Dream Come True Mark Filipak Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31162 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31177 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Heiko Heerssen Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31204 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31231 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB 31335 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31292 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31297 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Matthew Sawyer Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31313 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 1:55 pm Subject: [tree] Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I'm also very much interested in this tree. I can act as a branch or a leaf. regards, timo timo.astala@n... From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 3:33 pm Subject: FW: TD related items for sale and trade I've been asked by aslanfan1@a... to notify you of the following available used CDs for sale: Paul Haslinger - Score (autographed) Paul Haslinger - World Without Rules (autographed) Paul Haslinger - Planetary Traveler (2CD) Mark Shreeve - Crash Head (import) Mark Shreeve - Legion (import) Mark Shreeve - Nocturne Lightwave - Mundus Subteraneous Lightwave - Tycho Brahe Tangerine Dream - Luminous Visions (CD and VHS Video) Also, contact him offlist to discuss a *non-monetary* trade for: Tangerine Dream - Elec. Orgy (4 CD) Please contact aslanfan1@a... off-list for info. (not me) From: veine@v... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 4:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree Count me in on this one! Regards ~Veine -- Get your firstname@l... email at http://Nameplanet.com/?su Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31148 Re: [Tree] Tape tree mikael.jussila@p... Thu 1/10/2002 1 KB 31178 Re: Tape tree TheInfection Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31154 Re: [Tree] Tape tree Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31171 Re: [Tree] Tape tree Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31174 Re: [Tree] Tape tree Mark Filipak Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: mikael.jussila@p... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree I'm with you too! *Fornit Some Fornus* MJUSSILA Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31178 Re: Tape tree TheInfection Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:35 pm Subject: [tree] ??? was birmingham '75 ever tree'd? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:51 pm Subject: addendum to aslanfan's TD-related available CDs Aslanfan has asked me to add these items to his available list: Christopher Franke-(Rare) Tenchi the Move Original Soundtrack CD Christopher Franke-Perry Rhodon • Pax Terra CD Christopher Franke-The Celestine Prophecy A Musical Voyage CD Mike Oldfield-Earth Moving Mike Oldfied-Islands Voices in the Dunes, First Edition, copyright 1990 in good condition (cover in completely intact but with fold crease in it) contact him off-list at AslanFan1@a... From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:20 pm Subject: 5 year yahoogroups anniversary looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on this list was 1/9/97 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31153 Re: 5 year yahoogroups anniversary Synthhtnys@a... Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31156 Re: 5 year yahoogroups anniversary Antonio Nunes Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: PENFOLD Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree Count me in on this tree Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 5 year yahoogroups anniversary In a message dated 1/10/2002 12:21:56 PM Central Standard Time, teiwazbarana@h... writes: > looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on this list was > 1/9/97 > > *Long live Tadream! ;-) Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:10 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree http://www.tadream.net/tree Well, folks, some of you probably can't believe it, but here we go with a list-facilitated tree effort! Click the link above for all current info. Let me know if there is anything to add. Please read and adhere to the rules! If you send notification of your participation, please indicate your location, whether you will be a branch or leaf, and if a branch, how many leaves you will support. Thanks, Joe From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:34 pm Subject: RE: I_wanna_be_a_tadream_tree_branch hmm.. well, OK. no problem. if anyone else doesn't want their e-mail address displayed, let me know, but it's not like this is a public page or anything. I don't have any links to it off the extant pages. > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:ajogon@n...] > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:13 PM > To: tadream-owner@yahoogroups.com > Subject: I_wanna_be_a_tadream_tree_branch > > > Location: Portugal > # of leaves I can support: 3 > > P.S. Please see if there's a way of hiding our e-mail > addresses from the > page http://www.tadream.net/tree/ before the spammers find them. > > Antonio > > From: 'Antonio Nunes' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:52 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 5 year yahoogroups anniversary tei waz wrote: > > looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on this list was > 1/9/97 The poster of that message must have set a wrong date on his PC (Y2K bug?), because in 1997 the list was still on the cs.uwp.edu server. IIRC the list moved to the onelist server in 1999. Antonio From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:23 pm Subject: 5th year anniv. >The poster of that message must have set a wrong date on his PC (Y2K bug?), because in 1997 the list was still on the cs.uwp.edu server. IIRC the list moved to the onelist server in 1999. Mebbe, but Message one (a re:) says 1/9/1997 and there are plenty of 1997 messages after that.... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:39 pm Subject: NEW OLD ARCHIVES! (was RE: [tadream] 5 year yahoogroups annivers ary) that's right. I set up this list on March 15, 1999. the archives are incomplete on yahoogroups, but good news: inspired by Morgan to find the old Tape Tree rules from the uwp list, I posted a new archive of the old messages from there. These are as complete as I can currently provide; if you have any to add, please send them to me and I'll put them up with the rest: http://www.tadream.net/archives They are quite fun to go back and read! This is a request: If anyone finds the Tape Tree Rules, could you please post the URL to the list? Thanks, Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:ajogon@n...] > tei waz wrote: > > looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on > this list was > > 1/9/97 > The poster of that message must have set a wrong date on his PC (Y2K > bug?), because in 1997 the list was still on the cs.uwp.edu > server. IIRC > the list moved to the onelist server in 1999. > From: Morgan Feldon Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:43 pm Subject: New Digital Tape Tree? >Hieko Heersen said: > >Joe Shoults said: > > But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - > > this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by > TDI. > > With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit > > liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate > > profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' > >Hello Joe (& others), >I haven't interpreted Martin's info liberally, in fact what you wrote is >almost >identical to what *I* said to Martin yesterday >when I told him about my idea the first time. I told him that this will be an >entirely non-profit thing, and that I know that >the 'TD staff' will not support the trading of bootlegs, and he fully >agreed to >what I said. He also told me that as long as >there is no profit involved they will tolerate the new 'tree'. A while ago >someone on this list said that these kind of >activites are like a 'legal minefield', and I am aware of the consequences and >can only appeal to future 'tree members' that >they follow the 'rules' and don't sell their copies to other people to make >some money (the rear cover artwork will include a >statement like 'Produced by fans for fans - do not sell or buy, trade freely') >Thanks to all those list members who already showed their interesting in >participating, and to those who gave some information >about how to set up a tape tree. I will keep your names & email addresses, but >really it's WAY TOO EARLY to start now because: Let's look at how other tape and CDR trees have been done on the Tangerine Dream mailing list. On Dave Datta's UWP list, we saw Real Dream Encores, Sea of Dreams, and the other 25 discs of the Digital Tape Tree, among other things. I wish I had access to the archives, I'd dig up the posts from back then about trees. A 'window' date is chosen, beyond which point no more leaves or branches would be accepted. Before the tree begins, a diagram of the entire tree with names, e-mail addresses, and locations is posted to the list so there can be no confusion about whose responsibility each branch is. >a) I haven't recorded a single CDR yet (and I want the music to sound as good >as possible), as soon as I have a couple of >concerts ready (maybe 7-10 cdr's, each will run up to 73 minutes) My 2 lira... Generally, I believe in having a disc contain only the pieces of that concert. I understand that often, there will be two 40 minute sets and then an encore. This does not fit well on either one or two CDRs. Of course once leaves receive the CDRs, they may do whatever they want and repackage them for their own listening as one-concert-only CDRs. >I will let >you know so that we can start to think about the >subscription deadline for those who are interested, etc etc. I haven't set >myself a limit about how many Volumes there will be, >guess I just wait and see what happens. The evaluation of what was on the first 25 Digital Tape Tree discs and comparison between those and the quality of what you have will be a nightmare I'm sure. First you have to see if what you have is more complete that what was previously available. Then you have to decide if what you have is significantly higher quality than what came out on the other DTTs. > > So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how > > it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal > > trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. > > Fair enough? I say use how it went on Dave Datta's list as a blueprint. The actual trades were handled off-list, but we did see diagrams on the list of available branches and then a final workup of all the branches and leaves before the whole thing got started. Then there were status reports. > > This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be > > handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK > > on-list. > >yup yup :-) In case you have questions please contact me off-list at >'heiko.heerssen@h...' >And my apologies to those people who are not interested in the 'tree'...just >push the 'delete' button ;-) > > > BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like > > [tree] or something. > >that's a good idea. Definately. -Morgan P.S. I am working on a new website, which will use Paul Fellows' Known Concerts and Recordings website and Duncan's Tour Tracklist website as as my bibles. The website will be a comprehensive database of every concert date, whether a concert tape exists, and a list (and ranking) of every major 'named' recording of this show. The best possible recording will be boldfaced and track times included for identification. I've been told this is a monumental task, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm considering building it as a database instead of static web pages to aid editing and updating by non-HTML experts (not that I am an expert, but I'd rather use someone's talents on handling information than expect them to deal with mind-numbing HTML codes just to add a few lines). The reason for this website? Almost every major named bootleg out there is currently obsolete, and it's like a minefield trying to get your mitts on what is the best recording of the concert. The easy answer is always get your CDRs from Hieko, Duncan, Klaus, or others and you'll have the best :). But I'd like to spell it out in a bit more detail than that. A short list of the bootlegs that are currently obsolete: Patrolling Space Borders, Staatgrenze West, Coefficient of Aural Expansion/Phaedream/Ruby in the Sky, Danger Live, Acoustic LSD, Fractal Realities, Ratikon, the earlier 1983 Warsaw bootleg, Danger Live, etc. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31163 Re: New Digital Tape Tree? Mark Filipak Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:12 pm Subject: Tape tree rules I don't have a copy of them, but I remember what the general practice was: branch makes copies for leaf, leaf trades copies of something of interest to branch in return. alternately: branch makes copies for leaf, leaf pays shipping and cost of blanks and any printing or photocopying of cover art. (double blanks used to be a good option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). James > -----Original Message----- > This is a request: If anyone finds the Tape Tree Rules, could > you please > post the URL to the list? > > Thanks, > Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31164 Re: Tape tree rules Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 4 KB 31168 Re: Tape tree rules Michael Fox Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31165 Re: Tape tree rules Michael Fox Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31167 Re: Tape tree rules Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31169 Re: Tape tree rules Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 3 KB 31170 Re: Tape tree rules Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/10/2002 3 KB 31181 Re: Tape tree rules John McIntyre Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:30 pm Subject: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True Is anyone out there beginning to get EXCITED!! From: Morgan Feldon Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:34 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True >Mark Filipak said: >Is anyone out there beginning to get EXCITED!! Well, it just means that I get to save on post to Hieko. :) Hopefully in a few months, I'll be replacing some of my boots with even better recordings! -Morgan From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New Digital Tape Tree? Morgan Feldon wrote: > -snip- > > I'm considering building it as a database instead of static web pages Would you like this in Excel? I have a lot of this and can supply it in Excel or DBF. Let me know. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 each. The postage will cost more than the media. I would personally be more comfortable with NO money exchanged, even for the Kinkos color photocopies or prints that I make for my 5 leaves. I mean we're talking about a total maximum cost, with postage ($2 ea.), CDR blanks ($.25 ea) and color photocopies ($1 ea.), of no more than about $10-20. (I know these numbers are high, but I'm being liberal with the estimates for the sake of argument) I don't see how it would be too difficult to find 'something' that the leaf could send back that is worth that. Of course, ultimately it is up to the parties involved, but I think it would be much more in the proper spirit of things for the compensation to not be any cash at all, especially for anything over absolute costs. If your cash flow is so bad that you can't afford the $15 cost of being a branch, then maybe you should wait and save up for next time. JMHO. As a leaf, maybe you have a disk you can throw to your branch that they would like in trade, instead of B&P. Again, it is up to the parties involved. What I meant about finding the rules was if you found them in the archives I posted: http://www.tadream.net/archives > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:13 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [tadream] Tape tree rules > > > I don't have a copy of them, but I remember what the general > practice was: > branch makes copies for leaf, leaf trades copies of something > of interest to > branch in return. > > alternately: > branch makes copies for leaf, leaf pays shipping and cost of > blanks and any > printing or photocopying of cover art. (double blanks used to > be a good > option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > This is a request: If anyone finds the Tape Tree Rules, could > > you please > > post the URL to the list? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31168 Re: Tape tree rules Michael Fox Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape tree rules At 03:12 PM 01/10/2002 -0600, you wrote: >(double blanks used to be a good >option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). My feeling is 2 for 1 is not right. Art can be included, put up on a web site for download by all (preferred) or put on a separate disc included with the trade. We all have crummy generic discs we can use for art files. mike From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:43 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True - Interviews What about interview tapes? I'd like to have/listen to, and archive those. From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules the third disc for Dreamwatcher's Tales artwork worked out just fine last time. (Even better for those of you who were my leaves, who got the extra goodies I put on Disc 3 to fill it up.) For serious artwork, the files may be a little large for download for most people, but would be fine on CD. We will still post the artwork for download anyway, regardless if it is on a 3rd disc. That is, if there is any artwork. i really don't care too much about the artwork myself. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Fox [mailto:mfox@i...] > > At 03:12 PM 01/10/2002 -0600, you wrote: > >(double blanks used to be a good > >option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). > > My feeling is 2 for 1 is not right. Art can be included, put > up on a web > site for download by all (preferred) or put on a separate > disc included > with the trade. We all have crummy generic discs we can use > for art files. > > mike From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 >each. The postage will cost more than the media. This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, couldn't all the art be put up there for each person to download? This is how we do it on other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually have a 'one click' access to all the art. :-) Mike From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules depends on how large the files are. I don't have unlimited space, but I'll bet we could find volunteers for more space, even if the files resided on different servers, they could be DLed from the central page. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Fox [mailto:mfox@i...] > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:48 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules > > > At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale > for $.10 to $.15 > >each. The postage will cost more than the media. > > This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, > couldn't all the > art be put up there for each person to download? This is how > we do it on > other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually > have a 'one > click' access to all the art. :-) > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape tree rules If he doesn't have the space, I can offer some. Being in the business of hosting sites and all, I have access to a few servers. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Michael Fox' To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules > At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 > >each. The postage will cost more than the media. > > This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, couldn't all the > art be put up there for each person to download? This is how we do it on > other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually have a 'one > click' access to all the art. :-) > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree I'm off for today; see the tree page for current participants (so far). Please reply to me with your location, branch/leaf, # data if you haven't already. Thanks, Joe From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:00 pm Subject: sheet music on web site on http://www.tadream.net/ what is up with the sheet music? pdf ? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31176 Re: sheet music on web site Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31182 Re: sheet music on web site Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:08 pm Subject: [tree] Digital Tree i let heiko know, but will post here as well... i'm in for a branch at five leaves... j i like graphical possibilites of: Tangerine Dream Digital Tree TDDT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree I'm already in as a branch. Put me down for 5 leaves. I suspect we will have many branches and few leaves, except maybe outside of the US/EU... like maybe Gustavo in Brazil. -- Mark Joe Shoults wrote: > > I'm off for today; see the tree page for current participants (so far). > Please reply to me with your location, branch/leaf, # data if you haven't > already. > > Thanks, > Joe > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Morgan Feldon Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 11:15 pm Subject: >Joe Shoults said: > >the third disc for Dreamwatcher's Tales artwork worked out just fine last >time. (Even better for those of you who were my leaves, who got the extra >goodies I put on Disc 3 to fill it up.) > >For serious artwork, the files may be a little large for download for most >people, but would be fine on CD. We will still post the artwork for >download anyway, regardless if it is on a 3rd disc. That is, if there is >any artwork. i really don't care too much about the artwork myself. A CD of the artwork is nice, but a high-quality 240dpi cover can be compressed down in Photoshop to a 230-300kb JPEG. This is perfectly suitable for putting on a website and e-mail attachments, and looks wonderful when printed on any type of paper especially photo stock. -Morgan From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:04 am Subject: RE: [tadream] sheet music on web site holy cow I didn't realize there were so many dead links on this site. I think I may have replaced it with an older version or something. I have backups, so I'll check there. But you're right - I remember having the sheet music in there somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: Administrator for kay-net.com To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Sent: 1/10/02 5:00 PM Subject: [tadream] sheet music on web site on http://www.tadream.net/ what is up with the sheet music? pdf ? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True > Hopefully in a few months, I'll be replacing some of my boots with even > better recordings! Hi Gang, thanks very much for your encouraging emails! I already finished compiling the first 2 cdr's but what I know is that it has to be done very careful, I want to make them as 'perfect' as possible, especially when it comes to remaster them. This means that it will take at least 1 month before I start sending out the first couple of cdr's, and I also have the difficult task to convince one or two people (of course I will never ever mention their names) to give me their allowance to use their recordings which are without a doubt second to none. But I already can come up with a nice surprise, a 1st generation recording of the 'Me-rad' show (minus the encore) I know this is a show which is a favourite of many Tadreamers, and when you compare the 1st gen. to 'Me-rad' I can honestly say that this bootleg cd doesn't come close. Again, my regards to all those people who showed interest in the new 'tree' and to Joe for his enthusiasm :-) P.S.: shall I use 74 minute or 80 minute CDRs? (please reply off-list if possible ;-) From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:11 am Subject: Re: Tape tree Count me in!!! Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:04 pm Subject: [tree] Hello everyone, At first I didn't want to participate, since I've got quite a good amount of TD concerts and almost never listen to them (so much to listen to, so little time), but since the collection is going to be selected from good quality sources, I'm in! I could act as a branch, but I'm afraid I can only make one copy of the collection; maybe even 2, if it's not a very big collection of CDRs. It seems it's going to be around 10 CDRs, or more? I would prefer sending to anywhere in North/Central/South America, but if necessary I can send to anywhere. I'm willing to create some covers too. I make some covers for myself sometimes, such as that cover for the 'A collection of TD tracks' compilation I created some months ago for newbies. I also create the covers of my own music CDs, and each cover I create is better than the last one. Actually, I *want* to contribute with at least one cover... About the CD format, I prefer working with 80-minute CDs. I only use brands such as TDK, Kodak, Mitsui, Samsung. I always buy Kodak if possible. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31186 Re: [tree] Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31188 Re: [tree] Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31216 [tree] CDs Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31194 Re: [tree] Antonio Nunes Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31195 Re: [tree] Synthhtnys@a... Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31196 Re: [tree] Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31198 [tree] Dmitriy V N Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31419 [tree] Morgan Feldon Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31420 [tree] Morgan Feldon Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:24 pm Subject: [Tree] Provisional concert list I made up a list of concerts which I hope can be the first ones to get included in the new CDR tree series. I decided to use 80 minute CDRs so that we can have as much music as possible on one disc, this will also reduce the number of CDR's and shipping costs :-) Most of the concerts will get remastered, so most likely it will take 6 weeks until we can start trading (a rough estimate...) -Sheffield City Hall 29 Oct 1974 (1st gen.) -London Royal Albert Hall digital copy of BBC master tape (1st gen.) -Croydon Fairfield Hall 23 Oct 1975 (1st gen.) -Berlin Philarmonie 27 June 1976 (FM broadcast, best sounding version i've ever heard) -Newcastle City Hall 25 Oct 1981 (1st gen., used as source for the 'Spaces & spheres' boot lp) -Nottingham Albert Hall 08 Nov 1976 (1st gen.) -Brussels L'Ancienne Belgique 16 Nov 1976 (3rd gen.) -Orange Festival 16 Aug 1975 (4th gen.) -London Royal Albert Hall 07 June 1976 (1st gen.) -Duesseldorf Philipshalle 21 Oct 1976 (2nd gen.) -Hamburg Audimax 24 Feb 1978 (low gen.) -Frankfurt Alte Oper 'Fassbinder Memorial concert' 11 June 1983 (low gen.) -Berlin ICC 26 Jan 1981 (low gen.) -London Dominion Theatre 06 Nov 1982 (2nd gen.) -Mannheim Mozartsaal 31 Oct 1976 (1st gen.) -Bristol Colston Hall 06 Nov 1990 (1st gen.) -Amsterdam Melkweg Max 20 April 1997 (1st gen.) & maybe complete shows (but more likely only excerpts) of: -Osaka Festival Hall 28 June 1983 (3rd gen.) -Seattle Paramount theater 21 April 1977 (3rd gen.) -Paris Palais du Sport 22 Nov 1976 (3rd gen.) Heiko From: John McIntyre Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape tree rules Michael Fox wrote: > At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 > >each. The postage will cost more than the media. > > This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, couldn't all the > art be put up there for each person to download? This is how we do it on > other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually have a 'one > click' access to all the art. :-) Being sans burner, downloading doesn't do me much good. Those of us without burners will continue to rely on the kindness of strangers who do have burners. Trees are still needed. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 4:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] sheet music on web site yea a lot of dead links everywhere but I did not want to mention any of them as I knew you was working on it. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:04 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] sheet music on web site > holy cow I didn't realize there were so many dead links on this site. I > think I may have replaced it with an older version or something. I have > backups, so I'll check there. But you're right - I remember having the > sheet music in there somewhere. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Administrator for kay-net.com > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Sent: 1/10/02 5:00 PM > Subject: [tadream] sheet music on web site > > on http://www.tadream.net/ what is up with the sheet music? pdf ? > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: [Tree] Wanted: a name Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: -(The) Tangerine Tree -Marmalade skies -A dream come true any other ideas? :-) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31184 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Owens, James Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31185 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31187 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31190 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Heiko Heerssen Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31193 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31209 [Tree] Wanted: a name Whiteley, Steve Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31364 Re: Name of the tree TheInfection Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31214 [tree] name and artwork Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31219 Re: [tree] name and artwork Steve Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:10 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I suggested 'Marmalade Skies' So I'll defend it here: It's from the same line of the Beatles' song 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' that (supposedly) gave birth to the name Tangerine Dream. The exact phrase is: 'Picture yourself in a boat on a river With Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies' Since this is a Tangerine tree, I though Marmalade Skies would be appropriate, since it has all sorts of significance... James > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:07 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the > office in > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > -Marmalade skies > -A dream come true > > any other ideas? :-) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I will go along with this... Being a Beetle fan and all as well. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Owens, James' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > I suggested 'Marmalade Skies' > So I'll defend it here: > It's from the same line of the Beatles' song 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' > that (supposedly) gave birth to the name Tangerine Dream. The exact phrase > is: > > 'Picture yourself in a boat on a river > With Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies' > > Since this is a Tangerine tree, I though Marmalade Skies would be > appropriate, since it has all sorts of significance... > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:07 AM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > > > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the > > office in > > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > > -Marmalade skies > > -A dream come true > > > > any other ideas? :-) > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:46 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. Where I have had problems is in the use of the CDRs that has a shiny surface, and is not the kind that is 'sandwiched' in the middle of the plastic. I put a sticky-note on one of these CDRs one time, just to label it temporarily, and when I pulled the stickynote off, it removed the silver stuff with it. But if you are picky about media, once you get the CDR you can transfer it onto your own media, plus you can specify those criteria with your branchline. I use Nero to burn, and I never get coasters, never have problems. > -----Original Message----- > About the CD format, I prefer working with 80-minute CDs. I > only use brands > such as TDK, Kodak, Mitsui, Samsung. I always buy Kodak if possible. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31188 Re: [tree] Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31216 [tree] CDs Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:49 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name A Dream Come True sums up a lot of people's feelings, I think, but I kinda like Marmalade Skies. > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:07 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the > office in > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > -Marmalade skies > -A dream come true > > any other ideas? :-) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:39 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] I saw the note about 80 min discs and just wanted to add something to that. They are fine and actually that's all I use anymore, but try not to fill the entire disc. When you get up to 79 minutes or so, some burners will have trouble reading those last minutes (they read from the inside out) and this can cause faulty copies to be circulated. Just FYI. Mike From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:44 pm Subject: [tree] 80 min vs. 74 My HP8100i will only write a little over 78 minutes to an 80 minute disc. I don't think you gain enough with the extra 4 minutes per disc to make it worth the extra problems. I say stay below 74 minutes, so that there are fewer problems. James > -----Original Message----- > I saw the note about 80 min discs and just wanted to add > something to that. > They are fine and actually that's all I use anymore, but try > not to fill > the entire disc. When you get up to 79 minutes or so, some > burners will > have trouble reading those last minutes (they read from the > inside out) and > this can cause faulty copies to be circulated. Just FYI. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31191 Re: [tree] 80 min vs. 74 Synthhtnys@a... Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > I will go along with this... Being a Beetle fan and all as well. are you a beetle fan or a Beatles fan? ;-)) From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] 80 min vs. 74 In a message dated 1/11/2002 11:48:47 AM Central Standard Time, james.owens@m... writes: > . I say stay below 74 minutes, so that there are fewer > problems. > > James > *I agree that 74 is a safer choice. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:29 pm Subject: indicate location & status http://www.tadream.net/tree many of you have responded to be in the tree, but not indicated your location or your leaf/branch(#) status. Please contact me offlist and I'll update your info on the page. Thnaks, Joe P.S. good idea to stop short at 74 min on 80 min CDR. np: Ozric Tentacles - Become the Other Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31203 Re: indicate location & status Michael W Daniels Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name both Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Heiko Heerssen' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > > I will go along with this... Being a Beetle fan and all as well. > > are you a beetle fan or a Beatles fan? ;-)) > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Antonio Nunes' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Joe Shoults wrote: > > As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between > the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and burned them as audio CDs. I had no problems burning them, and they played all right after the burning, BUT 10 months afterwards all of them started to play with more and more noise on my CD player, and 2 months later they were not even recognized as audio CDs on any player or CD-ROM drive! So my advice is, if you don't want a 'vanishing CDR' stay away from cheap brands! I use HP CDRs most of the time (same brand as the burner) and I had never a problem with them. Another advice: don't put labels on your CDRs. A few years later they will start to peel off and if this happens when you are playing the CDR, it might damage not only the CDR itself but also your CD player or CD-ROM drive. This almost happened to me, but fortunately I managed to stop the CD player in time, before I had a flying label inside it! Antonio From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] > Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. > A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and > burned them as audio CDs. I had no problems burning them, and they > played all right after the burning, BUT 10 months afterwards all of them > started to play with more and more noise on my CD player, > Another advice: don't put labels on your CDRs. A few years later they > will start to peel off and if this happens when you are playing the CDR, > Antonio *This is great advice from Antonio.... I would also advise not going with the ultra-cheapos... Besides folks even the more expensive CDR's only come to about $1 per..(US) and this is cheaper than cassette tape was years ago!!!! I'd say if we're going to do this let's do it right. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:19 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] to further the comments on cd-r's I stick to Maxell's (650/74) myself. I have used Memorex 700/80, TDK and Teac's. In that order of problems. Less being Memorex. I seldom if any have a problem with Maxell. Never put on them unless you have too. I prefer a sharpie to ID it. I have used label with the stomper. I notice after a while they tend to peel up a bit. A friend had a Epson set up to print direct on a CD. That worked well, slow but it made it look more pro. For this mission I am pretty much going to use 74 minute Maxell's. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Antonio Nunes' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] > > > Joe Shoults wrote: > > > > As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between > > the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. > > Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. > A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and > burned them as audio CDs. I had no problems burning them, and they > played all right after the burning, BUT 10 months afterwards all of them > started to play with more and more noise on my CD player, and 2 months > later they were not even recognized as audio CDs on any player or CD-ROM > drive! So my advice is, if you don't want a 'vanishing CDR' stay away > from cheap brands! I use HP CDRs most of the time (same brand as the > burner) and I had never a problem with them. > > Another advice: don't put labels on your CDRs. A few years later they > will start to peel off and if this happens when you are playing the CDR, > it might damage not only the CDR itself but also your CD player or > CD-ROM drive. This almost happened to me, but fortunately I managed to > stop the CD player in time, before I had a flying label inside it! > > Antonio > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'horrod6' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:31 pm Subject: Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... Mark, you asked for more info: Outside of the cover says 'VIRGIN VD 2504' on the spine, and 'VD 2504 STEREO' at top left on the back, under the old Virgin logo. At the foot of the back cover it says 'p1976 VIRGIN RECORDS LTD virgin records, vernon yard, portobello road, london w11' There's no numbering on the inside of the cover. Alpha Centauri is numbered VD 2504 and marked 'STEREO' and 'p1971 Virgin Records Ltd'. Atem is also numbered VD 2504 and marked 'STEREO' and 'p1972 Virgin Records Ltd' Cut on the vinyl itself are the following: AC side 1: 'VD 2504-A5' (print) and 'VD-2504-#.5' where # looks like a C that has been scribbled out (handwriting). AC side 2: 'VD 2504 B - 1U - 1 - # - 3' (print, except # which looks as if a print character has been crossed out by hand) Atem side 1: 'VD 2504-D4' (mirrored print) and 'VD-2504-# -E' (handwriting), here # looks like a B that has been scribbled out and replaced with a (printed?) D AC side 2: 'VD 2504 C - 6U - 1 - 1' (print) Hope this helps! My guess would be that they re-used a previous cover picture (the baby's face) and didn't remove the text, by some oversight. Without a quad player, however, I can't confirm whether the discs themselves are stereo or quad. LnH Marion [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Dmitriy V N Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:25 pm Subject: [tree] What exactly is a tape tree? Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:39 pm Subject: princo >Antonio Nunes said: >Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. >A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and >burned them as audio CDs. Princo is legendary for bad media. I've gotta concur with the media suggestions made and add a few: TDK, Verbatim Datalife Plus, Imation, Memorex silver-top (NOT GOLD!). As far as the name, I've gotta vote for 'A Dream Come True', since these recordings are going to be incredible quality. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31202 Tape Tree mengels@w... Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:46 pm Subject: What is a tape/CDR tree? >What exactly is a tape tree? > >Regards, >Dmitriy One person has recordings that other people want. Rather than sell the CD (which is a no-no for bootlegs), this person makes available these CDs to others. But instead of one person having the burden of having to burn 50 or 100 copies of each CDR and deal with the packing and shipping for all these people, instead, that person who is the source, organizes (or submits the CDRs to someone who will organize) a tape or CDR tree. On a tape/CDR tree, the source CDRs are copied about a dozen times. Each of these copies is given to a 'branch'. Then, individuals who want copies of the CDRs send 2-for-1 blank CDRs (or $2 per CDR) to the nearest branch and in exchange, get copies of the CDRs. So nobody has to copy more than about 50 CDRs themselves and a LOT of people get the material, all without making a discernable profit, and TD doesn't get too upset. The branches and trees are all decided upon before the whole thing starts, so that things don't get out of hand. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31201 Re: What is a tape/CDR tree? Kevin Robert Ball Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31212 Re: What is a tape/CDR tree? Totta Rydqvist Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:52 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] What is a tape/CDR tree? Sounds perfect. Count me in as a branch. I'm in the UK - Bromley, Kent. Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] Sent: 11 January 2002 19:46 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] What is a tape/CDR tree? >What exactly is a tape tree? > >Regards, >Dmitriy One person has recordings that other people want. Rather than sell the CD (which is a no-no for bootlegs), this person makes available these CDs to others. But instead of one person having the burden of having to burn 50 or 100 copies of each CDR and deal with the packing and shipping for all these people, instead, that person who is the source, organizes (or submits the CDRs to someone who will organize) a tape or CDR tree. On a tape/CDR tree, the source CDRs are copied about a dozen times. Each of these copies is given to a 'branch'. Then, individuals who want copies of the CDRs send 2-for-1 blank CDRs (or $2 per CDR) to the nearest branch and in exchange, get copies of the CDRs. So nobody has to copy more than about 50 CDRs themselves and a LOT of people get the material, all without making a discernable profit, and TD doesn't get too upset. The branches and trees are all decided upon before the whole thing starts, so that things don't get out of hand. -Morgan From: Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:49 pm Subject: Tape Tree > Quoten Morgan Feldon : > > As far as the name, I've gotta vote for 'A Dream Come True', since these > recordings are going to be incredible quality. I'm not following this discussion closely but is the material that is going to be 'tree-ed' going to be complete material? Or as Sea of Dreams (which is excellent) only parts of concerts? If it's going to be complete then I think I'm interested. I mostly use Sony, Imation or MMORE CDRs, never had any problems with them. So, are we writing 1x speed, 2x speed or more? Mind you, I've once written a master-CD of my own CD at 2x speed and the CD-factory didn't accept it! It had too many errors while you can't hear them. It got through with 1x speed (which is the only speed for a right/good red book audio). (no my CD burning is not faulty :-)) Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Michael W Daniels Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] indicate location & status At 01:29 PM 1/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >http://www.tadream.net/tree >many of you have responded to be in the tree, but not indicated your >location or your leaf/branch(#) status. Please contact me offlist and I'll >update your info on the page. Hi. You can add me as a branch(3); I'm in Columbus, Ohio. -- Michael W. Daniels | 'The thunder was ominous-sounding, much daniels@l... | like the sound of a thin sheet of metal Department of Linguistics | being shaken backstage during the storm 218 Oxley Hall | scene in a play.' From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:21 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True >Marcel Engels said: >I'm not following this discussion closely but is the >material that is going to be 'tree-ed' going to be >complete material? Or as Sea of Dreams (which is excellent) >only parts of concerts? >If it's going to be complete then I think I'm interested. Unlike Sea of Dreams and Parallel Dreams 1 and 2, this will be entire concerts. If necessary, you might see 3 concerts on two CDRs to maximize the space. >I mostly use Sony, Imation or MMORE CDRs, never had any >problems with them. I agree re: imation. >So, are we writing 1x speed, 2x speed or more? I burn everything at 12x, and there are 24x burners now. CD Recording technology has improved unbelieveably in the last 3 years. It used to be that a 4x burner wrote 4x discs, but they were temperamental. You had to burn at 1x or 2x to guarantee a good burn. Now, you can burn at any speed you like and actually burning at 1x or 2x is not advantageous because you get MORE errors writing so slow. Even the standalone CD copiers have hit 4x at the $250 price point. I use a 12x CD-Recorder in my computer which costs $99 today. It also has burn-proof, so if there is a bugger underrun, it can resume the recording with no perceptable gap. >Mind you, I've once written a master-CD of my own >CD at 2x speed and the CD-factory didn't accept it! >It had too many errors while you can't hear them. >It got through with 1x speed (which is the only >speed for a right/good red book audio). >(no my CD burning is not faulty :-)) Doing discs for a duplication factory should be done at 1x, I agree. But 1x is absolutely maddening these days. I can't imagine burning a CD for 80 minutes. I am so used to 6 minutes per disc, and the discs come out absolutely flawless. I use Imation or Memorex platinum (silver-top) discs exclusively for data and audio CD. Burners have really improved over the years. I have to recommend Plextor, TDK, and anyone who uses those mechanisms. I cannot recommend HP, Philips, or most Teacs at all. Of course others will have different opinions. -Morgan From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:27 pm Subject: ...and Marmalade Skies As a digester, and a lurker, I am replying to several posts in this one... For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even go further and name it '...and Marmalade Skies' to leave the inference to Tangerine Tree more in the open. For media, I tend to disagree with Joe...I find 'cheap' media gives me alot of problems when I try to 'rip' discs. I never have those problems with Taiyo-Yuden branded (T-Y, HP, Fujifilm), Kodak and Mitsui. If it is made in Taiwan, instead of Japan, I would shy away from it (which includes most TDK, Sony, Memorex, Maxell,...). Just my two cents. As for Nero, Joe, I know some of the later versions actually have a bug that truncates a few millisecs. off of the end of tracks when you do a rip...if you need more info on that I can dig it up. Don't remember the v.#. Also, for extraction, I would like to assert that the main trunk and branch manager's try to choose branches based on the ability to use EAC to extract files. EAC is the only program I am aware of that gives you 'bit-perfect' copies on extraction. I will also offer my services to assist in some of the remastering... Craig Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31206 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31222 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31223 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Matthew Sawyer Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31224 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Administrator for kay-net.com Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31238 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Robert Grabowsky Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31372 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Antonio Nunes Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31373 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31382 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies John Vertical Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies At 03:27 PM 01/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: > If it is made in >Taiwan, instead of Japan, I would shy away from it I think this is the main thing. Most times you can find point of origin on the outside label somewhere. There is some program I've seen that can tell you this info but I don't have it handy at the moment. I'll post a link to it when I find it. Nice to see all the positive input on this project! Mike From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:44 pm Subject: [tree] costs - one idea I'm reading the posts (tons of them) from the past 24 hours, and I noticed costs are beginning to be discussed. On the Mike Oldfield list, there was a tree made from a home-remastered original version of MO's second album, Hergest Ridge, which was only available on vinyl. The CD version was a different and (for many fans) less good version. Martin Bartosik from Slovakia did a great job on carefully remastering from the original vinyl, plus creating special artwork for it, and he did a 'weed' system. He sent 5 (or something) copies for free to 5 people around the world. The way these people paid for them was by sending at least one copy of it, also for free, to someone else. So everyone paid for their copies. But yes, there were leaves, who couldn't for one reason or another record new CDs, but everyone got their copy for free, so everyone was happy and Martin Bartosik was elected 'Amaroker of the millennium' :) note: Amarok is the name of the Oldfield list, and also one of the favourite Oldfield albums of many, including myself. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31211 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31218 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31310 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:49 pm Subject: Maxell CDRs I've not had that great of luck with Maxell CDRs. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31213 Re: Maxell CDRs Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:54 pm Subject: [Tree] Wanted: a name 'Sharing the Dream' 'Seeding the Dream' 'Tangerine Dream Seeds' 'Mysterious Strands of Dreams' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31364 Re: Name of the tree TheInfection Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: 'goozergrafx' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:57 pm Subject: Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! Got Reason, started the obligatory TD-esque track (Dementia Ranger-to be finshed whenever...), quickly moved on to my own ideas... It is not very hard at all to produce the required sounds for a 'TD style' track-the samples for basically all of the old analogue/modular gear are out there-but the question soon becomes one of what do *you* want to sound like? Or at least it should...RMI, AS, FSP and the rest have already made the waters warm, so to speak. --- In tadream@y..., mengels@w... wrote: > >Reason is definitely cool, but if someone was interested > in creating the > >modular sounds of classic TD for a very reasonable price > I would HIGHLY > >suggest looking into > >the Clavia Nord Micro Modular (about $500 US) It works > with a PC and has the > >most amazing emulation of a modular sound I've heard. > > Or you could buy a real new modular. :-) > Quite some around and if you want 'that' sound > then there's plenty of modulars around like the > 'Arrick' synthesizers.com, MOTM, Doepfer etc. > IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to > 30 years ago, although most of the techno-kids > probably think it's expensive because they use > cracked versions of 303/moog emulations etc. > > Marcel > http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels > mengels@w... > Arrick-owner... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31254 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! mengels@w... Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs - one idea At 07:44 PM 01/11/2002 -0200, you wrote: >Martin Bartosik from Slovakia did a great job on carefully remastering >from the original vinyl, plus creating special artwork for it, and he did >a 'weed' system. Gustavo-- No disrespect meant, and glad that worked, but I've seen 'weeds' wither and die leaving a lot of people in the lurch (Monty Python reference #1). I'd rather see a structured tree formed where if someone has a problem, they have other options (branches or leaves) that can get them the goods. Plus, once it is formed, everyone can see who is getting from who and it's all so much for comforting and has a bit of crunchy frog in it. (burp) Mike Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31218 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31310 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Totta Rydqvist Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] What is a tape/CDR tree? > Hi all dremers, if the tree will happend , count me in if that is ok with you all. Totta [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Maxell CDRs seems Maxell works fine for the Yamaha burners I use. TDK being the worst.. of what luck TDK is, rather go to Vegas with the odds I get with TDK. Memorex has been doing better on the burners I use lately. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'tei waz' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: [tadream] Maxell CDRs > I've not had that great of luck with Maxell CDRs. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:39 pm Subject: [tree] name and artwork 'tangerine tree' seems pretty good, it's simple and nice. yes, without 'the' is good enough. I don't like 'marmalade skies' very much. I like this more 'generic' name, 'tangerine tree', better. this name even allows for the creation of a logotype: instead of every front cover having 'tangerine tree' written on it, it would have the logotype with a number, the number of the CDR, and the CD-title, all inserted within the artwork. the back cover would have the full title, but in kind of small letters, saying for example, - tangerine tree CD #9 - CROYDON 75 (this would be the CD-title) Croydon Fairfield Hall, England October 23rd, 1975 (a.k.a. blahblahblah, which would be the usual name of the bootleg of this concert) 1. track 1 (mm'ss') 2. track 2 (mm'ss') etc. also, all inserted in the artwork. I thought this 'tangerine tree' logotype could be some drawing of a tree or something, over the TDI logo, that one first shown on Tyger. would that be allowed? Hmm, this idea of mine, making all the covers following a certain standard, it seems it would be better if made by only one person. Yes, I'm willing to do it. I work on the computer all day, doing computer support for the people in the office who use computers (everyone uses computers there), so I'm constantly in front of my pentium III-600. Maybe, once the concert list is done and Heiko starts the mastering process, while he's mastering I could make the covers, and hopefully we would have everything ready at the same time. just some ideas... hmm, i think i've quickly got pretty excited about all this. If I get to create the covers, I would do mostly abstract artwork, using coreldraw and corel photo-paint, (version 10), and maybe using photos of the band here and there, if I feel they're good and suitable. I would create covers for 2-CD boxes (if the recording is 2-CDs, which I believe most or all of them are), but also versions for separate CDs. it would be the same, except for 'CD1' and 'CD2' on the cover. I've already rambled too much about this. >Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in >a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a >good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > >-(The) Tangerine Tree >-Marmalade skies >-A dream come true >any other ideas? :-) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31219 Re: [tree] name and artwork Steve Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31246 [tree] artwork Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:54 pm Subject: ripping audio I've been using audiocatalyst for a long time, and before that I used audiograbber for ripping. I don't remember ever having any problems with them, and I've read audiocatalyst being recommended with EAC as the two best ripping softwares. >Also, for extraction, I would like to assert that the main trunk and branch >manager's try to choose branches based on the ability to use EAC to extract >files. EAC is the only program I am aware of that gives you 'bit-perfect' >copies on extraction. > >I will also offer my services to assist in some of the remastering... >Craig Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31249 Re: ripping audio 3N Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:43 pm Subject: [tree] CDs I prefer using more known and traditional brands anyway; they've been more reliable. I sometimes get problems using more 'generic' media such as dr.hank and stuff. I see that indeed sometimes there are problems with 80-minute cds, so I agree that we should use 74-minute ones then. I also use Nero 5.5 which is pretty good and reliable. >As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between >the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. Where I have >had problems is in the use of the CDRs that has a shiny surface, and is not >the kind that is 'sandwiched' in the middle of the plastic. I put a >sticky-note on one of these CDRs one time, just to label it temporarily, and >when I pulled the stickynote off, it removed the silver stuff with it. But >if you are picky about media, once you get the CDR you can transfer it onto >your own media, plus you can specify those criteria with your branchline. > >I use Nero to burn, and I never get coasters, never have problems. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: tadreaming@c... Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:58 pm Subject: tree Please count me in on the tree too. Martyn Capel Phoenix AZ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31226 Tree PENFOLD Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs - one idea As far as I remember there was a list of the branches available... the main point was that the cost would be passed in form of the person making copies for someone else. the person who received a copy would pay by sending another copy for someone else. I think this is a good idea; I'm not very comfortable with the idea of sending money to another country. >No disrespect meant, and glad that worked, but I've seen 'weeds' wither and >die leaving a lot of people in the lurch (Monty Python reference #1). I'd >rather see a structured tree formed where if someone has a problem, they >have other options (branches or leaves) that can get them the goods. >Plus, once it is formed, everyone can see who is getting from who and it's >all so much for comforting and has a bit of crunchy frog in it. >(burp) >Mike Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31310 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: 'Steve' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:20 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] name and artwork A Tree of Dreams? Gustavo said: > Hmm, this idea of mine, making all the covers following a certain > standard, it seems it would be better if made by only one person. The actual compositing of the graphics would be best done by just one person to achieve a 'house style', but I'm sure there are other graphic artists on the list who'd like to contribute artwork for this project. I sure would :) An awful lot of my work has been made while listening to TD: it would be great to return the favour, as it were! (And if anyone from TDI is reading this, yes, I'd love to do the artwork for the next TD release ) Steve www.craftman.co.uk www.rotties-r-us.co.uk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31246 [tree] artwork Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:01 am Subject: burning (was RE: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True) I'll add that the software makes a difference, as well. I've never had one problem with Nero and recommend it highly. (www.ahead.de) As for straight disk copying, I also recommend DiscJuggler. Joe np: Alan Parsons Project - I Robot > -----Original Message----- ... > Burners have really improved over the years. I have to > recommend Plextor, > TDK, and anyone who uses those mechanisms. I cannot recommend > HP, Philips, > or most Teacs at all. Of course others will have different opinions. > > -Morgan > From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:40 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] name and artwork From: 'Steve' > The actual compositing of the graphics would be best done by just one person > to achieve a 'house style', I've designed a number of TD bootleg covers for myself, and I use a particular house style for all of them. I've placed an example on the web at www.maff.da.ru/tdcov.htm I'd be happy to handle all the covers, or I could have a try at setting up a template which could make all the covers 'uniform' while at the same time allowing people to contribute their own graphics or photos. Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31265 [tree] idea for artwork style Gustavo Jobim Sun 1/13/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:11 am Subject: RE: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies > For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even go I liked this one right away, and it more now. > For media, I tend to disagree with Joe...I find 'cheap' media > gives me alot > of problems when I try to 'rip' discs. I never have those wow. a lot of people have disagreed with me about cheap vs. name brand. well, all I know is that I've never had a problem, but on a widespread scale, I think it would be proper to recommend brand name disks. Of course, it is between you and your branchline. I use Sony CRX140E burners with Nero (primarily). The latest batch of CDRs is 80-minute K-hypermedia, and they work like a charm. I also use memorex and TDK. But you guys are making me paranoid, like I should be recopying them or something! ;-) > > As for Nero, Joe, I know some of the later versions actually > have a bug that ...Don't remember the v.#. I'm using 5.0.3.1. I've never perceived a need to upgrade because it does more than I need it to do (have you ever used the DirectX plugin filter capabilities? cool!) I will second this for EAC. I've even recovered badly damaged disks with it. From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies From: 'Joe Shoults' > wow. a lot of people have disagreed with me about cheap vs. name brand. I use Nero with generic brand discs, and out of the last 300 discs I've burned I've had no coasters or data errors at all. For the tree however I will of course use whatever brand discs are agreed upon. If we ever manage to agree on a brand, that is! ;-) Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:10 am Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies even if a brand was agreed on, not all burners would work equally well. goes as well to the software used. I think everyone should try to use what works and as high as quality as possible. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies > From: 'Joe Shoults' > > > wow. a lot of people have disagreed with me about cheap vs. name brand. > > > I use Nero with generic brand discs, and out of the last 300 discs I've > burned I've had no coasters or data errors at all. For the tree however I > will of course use whatever brand discs are agreed upon. If we ever manage > to agree on a brand, that is! ;-) > > Maff > _______________________________________________________ > www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru > www.tachyon-tv.co.uk > www.eclipsecafe.com > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Vincent Goudreault' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:27 am Subject: Re: CD tre > Subject: Re: Tape tree > Well, I am most likely a newbee as far as burning CD is concerned, only acquired a CD burner for the computer a few months ago, and having never burned a music CD before will probably end up wasting a few blanks before I get it right, but I presume there is good music to share, so why not? So, I would be volunteering to act as a branch, for the North-Eastern part of North America. C.B.V.Goudreault (from Laval, just North of Montreal, Canada) From: PENFOLD Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:04 pm Subject: Tree oops wrong format count me in Pete Isaacson Los Angeles CA Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: 'Kassel24' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:22 am Subject: Audio CDR's vs PC CDR's and Brand Names. Some FACTS about CDR's but not conclusive...... AUDIO CDR vs. Normal CDR Media (PC) Supposedly it is fact that Audio CDR's are of a better quality and will have longer life expectancy as opposed to Normal (PC) CDR's. Whilst there is no audible difference between Audio CDR's and PC CDR's .... The life expectancy for a Computer CDR's is currently around 10 years or more...... At around 10 years you should ideally backup important data or format information to 'new' CDR media Audio CDR's are expected to last longer and be more relaible and are less susceptible to attack/damage by the element. Depending on the Brand make they all make different claims to their Media format... we will know the answer in 10 years! Ray From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts I've listened to a few concert recordings and find that for the most part there are certain sections I look forward to and some I just bide my time through. Let's face it, improv is not always masterful and there are parts that just don't groove. But like the poem, 'when she was good, she was very very good,' when TD suddenly hits that mark in concert, there is no comparison. Therefore, I don't think it is necessary to release an entire concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best parts. And that is what they started to do with Antique Dreams, but then they got all the pissing and moaning about how it was tangentized which to me has come to signify 'cleaned up'. I don't want to hear tch tch tch tch from an untouched concert ruined by time and tape frailty. I want perfection. There is nothing wrong with trying to release music to a quality standard even if it means removing some sounds and substituting better ones to cover. Having said all that though, in listening to some of these concerts like Cirque Royale I am just absolutely awed at how wonderful it must have been to actually be at a concert like that. Patrons must have walked out of the hall absolutely stunned. How I wish I could have been there. Actually, how I wish I could just see them once. I sure hope the USA tour can be re-arranged. 8-) Dell NP: Electrofog. One of those magic moments. As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. >From: vic rek >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offered >Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:47:40 -0500 > >If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I >believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll hate >it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. Maybe if >you heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you >may have second thoughts. Much of what we like may not be exactly what we >hear, but what we think we know. > >What am I saying here ?!!? :-) > >Vic As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: 'Eric Williamson' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:50 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts opinion spouting ahead. apologies to those offended. Adele said: >signify 'cleaned up'. I don't want to hear tch tch tch tch from an untouched >concert ruined by time and tape frailty. I want perfection. There is nothing >wrong with trying to release music to a quality standard even if it means >removing some sounds and substituting better ones to cover. IMNSHO there are much better ways of restoring dubious concert tape than recording new dubious parts over it. check out The League Of Gentlemen's Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx (on Robert Fripp's Discipline label ... the finest model for an indie label if i ever saw one). it's a live album compiled from dozens of _cassette_ recordings made with a 1980-era consumer deck and 1980-era consumer microphones at the back of the club. it sounds a little raw, but amazing other than that (i like it way more than their studio album). an intelligent sound engineer with a good pair of ears and a 1999-era SADiE workstation did a great job whereas Eddie Froese and the factory presets of a Triton ProX did a great job of pissing off several listeners. i just don't trust someone who brags about using factory presets because he's 'sick of people sampling' him with restoring old concert tape. i just about barfed when i heard Soundmill Navigator after paying 20 dollars for it. in the future i'm _definitely_ going to stick to bootlegs when it comes to that stuff. again this is all old news blah blah blah it's a subjective debate where there are no rights and wrongs so on and so forth. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31234 Re: TD Concerts Morgan Feldon Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB 31245 Re: TD Concerts Mark Filipak Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31353 Re: TD Concerts Adele Outland Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31356 Re: TD Concerts scfeldman@j... Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:18 am Subject: [tree] costs hmm. thinking over and discussing i came to the conclusion that that thing i was saying, about getting the cds for free and then sending for free (instead of paying in one way or another for them), doesnt work in this tree's case; it seems it's clocking at 30-60 cds... this would work nicely if we were talking about 1, 2 or even 3 cds, but the work of burning and packing and posting such a big amount of cds is just too much to fit this system. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31321 Re: [tree] costs Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:17 am Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True >Gustavo Jobim said: >As far as I remember there was a list of the branches available... the main >point was that the cost would be passed in form of the person making copies for >someone else. the person who received a copy would pay by sending another copy >for someone else. I think this is a good idea; I have never heard of a tree operated this way. Are you talking about a free-form tree instead of something organized? The main reason people sign up to be leaves is because they have a CD burner sufficient speed and enough free time to commit to this. I'm open to ideas, but I think it's unrealistic for the branches to be expected to have to go out and buy 50-70 CDRs on their own, spend hours or days copying them (depending on the speed of their burner), and then have to pack and pay for shipping too? And to the folks poo-pooing 2-for-1, back when CDRs were $1.50 each, 2 blanks-for-1-in-return made it a decent deal because the $2-4 shipping and inkjet, paper costs, etc. was covered. Now, CDRs are 30-40 cents for excellent-quality blanks (without jewel case). 2-for-1 CDRs plus postage sounds better. Really, if I were a potential branch and found out that I can't at least recoup my costs (the tree mantras all say 'not for profit, but costs are covered'), then I'll just get these CDRs from Hieko or Duncan directly. Hieko isn't making any recordings available now that you can't get directly from them by direct trade. This is simply a way of getting things around and more easily into the US with less cost to each listener. > I'm not very comfortable with the idea of sending money to another country. As with almost every other tape/CDR tree, especially ones on the UWP list, there will be a West Europe tree, an East Europe tree, and a North American tree. Only the seeds will have to be sent from Europe to the US to initialize the tree over here. Hope to hear alternate viewpoints on this. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31335 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:24 am Subject: Audio CDR vs. Data CDR Audio and Data CDR are identical. Audio CDR are tagged differently and are useable in standalone (separate box) music CD copiers. 1/2 of the price of Audio CDR blanks is a 'music piracy tax' that is paid to the music labels (not the artists). Some standalone CD Recorders can be hacked to use ordinary data CDRs. I have heard nothing conclusive to state that you are really buying anything extra with an Audio CDR than a small cheque for the music industry. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31244 Re: Audio CDR vs. Data CDR Mark Filipak Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Rumpelstiltskin Thanks for the back up reply and I hope I can meet you this year at the Okee gathering. Ok, I recommend Rumpelstiltskin, but failing that I would say that other examples of songs too sweet for many on the list would be Body Corporate or Death of a Nightingale or just about anything with the sax in it or any piano solo all of which I love. I don't mean to imply that I don't like other things because another favorite is also Reims and you don't get much more different than that, or Ricochet either, my first hook album. And, Greg, I don't mean to imply that some of the guys don't like the more harmonious compositions either. In fact, at this point, I'm like Vic. What am I trying to say here? LOL 8-) Dell As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. >From: 'horrod6' >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [tadream] Re: Rumpelstiltskin >Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 21:57:48 -0000 >Well, I guess the number of females on the list is too small for a >statistically significant sample, but I agree with you strongly on Cinnamon >Road. I haven't heard Rumpelstiltskin, so I can't comment on that one. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:39 am Subject: RE: TD Concerts >Adele Outland said: >Therefore, I don't think it is necessary to release an entire >concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best parts. We already have Parallel Dreams 1 and 2, Electronic History, Sea of Dreams, and many other compilations totalling at least 45 CDRs worth. These are great samplers and I encourage people to get their mitts on them. However, now that full concerts of much higher quality are surfacing, it's time for the digital tape tree to come back. :) >And that is >what they started to do with Antique Dreams, but then they got all the >pissing and moaning about how it was tangentized which to me has come to >signify 'cleaned up'. None of the additions to Antique Dreams were done to repair/improve audio quality as the audio quality on all of those sources was already excellent. (except Ultima Thule which had some tape hiss which was left untreated). >I don't want to hear tch tch tch tch from an untouched >concert ruined by time and tape frailty. I want perfection. We've gone over this regarding Soundmill Navigator. None of the additions or 'tangentization' was done in an effort to repair the original music. Further, several qualified music technicians on this list demonstrated that Soundmill Navigator could be completely and successfully denoised without harming the music underneath. A fixed version of Soundmill Navigator appeared as Planetary Navigator (which we should not discuss further, as this is based off an official release). If Edgar wants to make additions to old recordings and label it properly, there's nothing I or anyone else can do to stop him, and there is certainly such a market for these recordings. But let's not try to say that these Tangentizations are necessary to clean up the audio. >There is nothing >wrong with trying to release music to a quality standard even if it means >removing some sounds and substituting better ones to cover. I've yet to hear any additions to TD music releases in the past few years that exhibit an obvious motive of repairing a tape flaw or objective flaw in the musical performance (a missed or bum note). Instead, these additions have been for better or worse, subjective musical hindsight. Many people are happy to buy anything Edgar turns out, and I will not try to ruin it for those fans in my posts! -Morgan From: 'L. Darby' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:00 am Subject: Tree's and such To all concerned..... wonderful to see trees/weeds etc. begin to surface here. When you sit in the middle of the old USA, you don't get the opportunity to see Edgar & Co. frequently (if at all !) All are to be commended for the time and effort that has gone in to this project. Even though I may be a digester and a lurker, I have participated in trees/weeds on other lists I have been a part of. For reference, here are some concerns/pitfalls to be on the look out for. 1) Poor extractions -- the more times music is written>extracted >written>extracted, the greater the change for padding offset which can potentially lead to poor quality disks. Several ways to avoid this are: a)using shn disks to all branches with MD5 check sums so there is only the convert to wav before burning. Zero loss. b) download by branches of shn or waves from an FTP server for the seeds. 2) Poor quality media -- most all the trees I have been part of mandated the use of Kodak's or Mitsui's for branches from the root. What individuals wanted to use as leafs was their business. I won't get into the generic-is-as-good-as-the-brand argument with anyone. But let me offer all this link and let you read it: http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_quality.shtml Personally, I use Kodak's and Mitsui's. Generally Kodak's are easier to find and the Infoguard layer is another protection you can get. I have disks that are over seven years old from trees and there has been no problems at all. 3) Profiteering -- One of the more insidious items is users who get tree'd disks and turn around and off them for sale on ebay and the like. On some lists, that is grounds for banishment from the list and from the trees. Nothing irks tree parents more than to see a copy of their appear on a high dollar Japanese label like Tarantura. In the incident I refer to, the tree parents uncovered that the Japanese release was identical to their original source shn disks! I recommend the same restriction. 4) MP3's -- yep, no matter what you do, these tree'd items will be ripped to mp3's and made available to the public via the net. Accept it going in as a part of life. These are a few of the items I've been aware of in my tree participation days. Take them as little more than observations and ideas. Use them if you see fit. Ignore them if you want. I'm more than happy to discuss off list anything I can. Just be aware I don't reply to flame mail. I look forward to the rise of new tree's of great material. Thanks again to all. CD TOM _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I know I suggested 'A Dream Come True', but I've thought it over. I'd like to suggest some names that express 1) The spirit of TD music (e.g., Pergammon, Exit and others), 2) The Internet's part in this, and 3) A hope for the future. 'One World Dream' 'World of Dreams' 'Dreams of the World' 'World Dreaming' 'Dream Age of the World' 'Dream of Worlds to Come' 'Dreaming of Worlds to Come' 'Earth Dreams' 'Dream Age' 'Age of Dreams' 'Epoch of Dreams' 'Dream Horizon' 'Dream Catalyst' No matter what name is chosen (and really, any title is okay with me) I would like it to be in German. TD is a German band. It makes German music. We owe a lot to the German spirit of rebirth that is in TD music and in the German people. I think it would be a nice tribute. I also think it would be nice if we could use the TD logo. Could Edgar be persuaded? (Probably not!) Ciao -- Mark Heiko Heerssen wrote: > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > -Marmalade skies > -A dream come true > > any other ideas? :-) > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31248 Re: [Tree] a name Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:30 am Subject: shn? What are shn disks? What are shn disks? -- Mark 'L. Darby' wrote: > > 1) Poor extractions -- the more times music is written>extracted > >written>extracted, the greater the change for padding offset which can > potentially lead to poor quality disks. Several ways to avoid this are: > > a)using shn disks to all branches with MD5 check sums so there > is only the convert to wav before burning. Zero loss. > > b) download by branches of shn or waves from an FTP server for > the seeds. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31243 Re: shn? What are shn disks? Mark Filipak Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies Why 'rip' the CD to your hard drive????? Or copy files?????? Why not just use the copy function with DAO (disc at once)? I use EZ CD Creator 5 and do not have any problems. I also have a stand alone burner in my stereo system which works great to. My vote for a name for the series: 'Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies' Robert >As for Nero, Joe, I know some of the later versions actually have a bug that >truncates a few millisecs. off of the end of tracks when you do a rip...if >you need more info on that I can dig it up. Don't remember the v.#. > >Also, for extraction, I would like to assert that the main trunk and branch >manager's try to choose branches based on the ability to use EAC to extract >files. EAC is the only program I am aware of that gives you 'bit-perfect' >copies on extraction. > From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:42 am Subject: [tree] Planning for a 'larger' future Hi, Overlap across discs ==================== I'd like to suggest: When breaking a set to fit on 2 or more discs, duplicate at least 5 seconds of material from the end of one disc to the beginning of the following disc. That way, when a larger capacity media becomes commonly available (such as DVD-audio), we can all simply edit out the overlap and join the wav files and reburn. Technical notes on discs ======================== I'd also like to see notations on the discs as to the time or number of frames or bytes up to the point of the overlap so that future editing will be easier -- it would take the guess work out of snipping off the overlap prior to joining for the larger capacity media in the future. An example of a note might be this: 'Note: Content after 62:32.3045 overlaps the next disc in this series.' Ciao -- Mark From: KMJ Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 4:26 am Subject: Re: New Digital Tape Tree Will there be an option for branches to receive their discs as SHN's? Kevin From: 'Vince LeGrand' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 5:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I'd like to join the tree, also. I'm in Pennsylvania. Vince From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 6:52 am Subject: [tree] Hidden pictures I'm glad to see you are warming up to this tree idea, Gustavo. :-) I have an idea. You know how Edgar and Monika hid pictures of Jerome? Let's hide pictures of Edgar, Chris, and Peter. Ciao -- Mark Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > just some ideas... hmm, i think i've quickly got pretty excited about all this. If I get to create the covers, I would do mostly abstract artwork, using coreldraw and corel photo-paint, (version 10), and maybe using photos of the band here and there, if I feel they're good and suitable. I would create covers for 2-CD boxes (if the recording is 2-CDs, which I believe most or all of them are), but also versions for separate CDs. it would be the same, except for 'CD1' and 'CD2' on the cover. I've already rambled too much about this. From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 7:27 am Subject: Re: shn? What are shn disks? Hi. Thanks. I read it over. I'd hoped there was such a lossless compress scheme. SHN (shortened) files are wav files that have been compressed using a widely used, lossless compression scheme that produces a 40% to 50% average size reduction. They are not red book and therefore will not play on CD players, but they can be decompressed and played on-the-fly on all 32 bit versions of Windows and on Linux systems using readily available freeware. A SHN on-the-fly decompressor is not currently available for Apple operating systems. SHN files can be bulk decompressed and saved as wav files on all platforms. How's that for a thumbnail sketch of SHN? This sounds like a dynamite way to archive wav files but not a good way do distribute CDRs. I think that the inability to play them on home stereos is a show stopper. If I were to design a home VCD/CD/MP3 player, I'd add SHN to the repetoir, for sure. By comparison, ZIP compression is lossless but only achieves a 9% reduction when applied to wav files. Ciao -- Mark 'L. Darby' wrote: > > Try this link for an explanation that is probably better than I can give: > > http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html > > CD TOM > > >From: Mark Filipak > >To: tadream@yahoogroups.com, omayyad@h... > >Subject: shn? What are shn disks? > >Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:30:28 -0500 > > > >What are shn disks? -- Mark > > > >'L. Darby' wrote: > > > > > > 1) Poor extractions -- the more times music is written>extracted > > > >written>extracted, the greater the change for padding offset which can > > > potentially lead to poor quality disks. Several ways to avoid this are: > > > > > > a)using shn disks to all branches with MD5 check sums so there > > > is only the convert to wav before burning. Zero loss. > > > > > > b) download by branches of shn or waves from an FTP server for > > > the seeds. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Audio CDR vs. Data CDR Boy! I'd really like to know the answer to this vexing question. Though an electrical engineer, I unfortunately cannot throw my weight in either direction, however, I find it extremely hard to believe that data CDRs are less reliable than music CDRs. The facts ========= 1 - Large companies use data CDRs to archive nearly priceless data. 2 - Computer grade tape is higher quality than any audio tape. 3 - DAT (digital audio tape) was developed to digitally store consumer audio. 4 - DDS (digital data storage) looks like DAT, but is more reliable. Morgan's explanation makes sense to me. I have heard that audio CDR is a marketing gimmick. I may be wrong. Ciao -- Mark (who hates to quibble as he has done here and hopes someone has the time to comprehensively research this topic) Morgan Feldon wrote: > > Audio and Data CDR are identical. > > Audio CDR are tagged differently and are useable in standalone (separate > box) music CD copiers. 1/2 of the price of Audio CDR blanks is a 'music > piracy tax' that is paid to the music labels (not the artists). > > Some standalone CD Recorders can be hacked to use ordinary data CDRs. > > I have heard nothing conclusive to state that you are really buying > anything extra with an Audio CDR than a small cheque for the music industry. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts Adele Outland wrote: > > I've listened to a few concert recordings and find that for the most part > there are certain sections I look forward to and some I just bide my time > through. Let's face it, improv is not always masterful and there are parts > that just don't groove. But like the poem, 'when she was good, she was very > very good,' when TD suddenly hits that mark in concert, there is no > comparison. Therefore, I don't think it is necessary to release an entire > concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best parts. I didn't read past this. My reaction, Adele? You're about to get it (brace yourself!) 1 - What is one person's good parts is entirely a matter of PERSONAL opinion. 2 - If you want to cut out the boring parts, feel free to take your CDR, and burn a 'best of' version. 3 - Don't presume to make decisions for anyone but you. Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:29 am Subject: RE:[tree] artwork Yeah, we could gather the artwork by anyone who'd like to contribute, and then they would be arranged by one person. This is much better indeed, and would bring a good visual variety to the whole thing. In the meantime I think I'll start making some abstract sketches that we can use later, or if we don't then I'll keep them for myself :) >Gustavo said: > >> Hmm, this idea of mine, making all the covers following a certain >> standard, it seems it would be better if made by only one person. > >The actual compositing of the graphics would be best done by just one person >to achieve a 'house style', but I'm sure there are other graphic artists on >the list who'd like to contribute artwork for this project. I sure would :) >An awful lot of my work has been made while listening to TD: it would be >great to return the favour, as it were! (And if anyone from TDI is reading >this, yes, I'd love to do the artwork for the next TD release ) > >Steve Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: tadreaming@c... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:55 am Subject: Correlations I thought maybe someone would be interested in ASHRA's CD Correlations being available at Half.com for $9.99. This isn't something I'm selling, just saw it, and passing along info, very rare CD. Martyn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:09 am Subject: Re: [Tree] a name What about 'tangerine traum'? but I still think 'tangerine tree' is a pretty good name. hmm, what's the word for 'tangerine tree' in german? >No matter what name is chosen (and really, any title is okay with me) I would like it to be in German. TD is a German band. It makes German music. We owe a lot to the German spirit of rebirth that is in TD music and in the German people. I think it would be a nice tribute. > >I also think it would be nice if we could use the TD logo. Could Edgar be persuaded? (Probably not!) > >Ciao -- Mark Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: '3N' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] ripping audio HeY Gustavo! ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustavo Jobim To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:54 PM Subject: [tadream] ripping audio > I've been using audiocatalyst for a long time, and before that I used audiograbber for ripping. I don't remember ever having any problems with them, and I've read audiocatalyst being recommended with EAC as the two best ripping softwares. Yes, Audiocatalyst (the same as Audiograber) is not bad, but the best application for ripping audio is Sonic's SoundForge with CD Architect module. Audiocatalyst sometims report aspii error and you must manage with rip-offset parameters (in fact - cutoff fragments of originals). And the best program for coping entire disks is CD-Clone (not any Nero, WinCD aso). CD-clone make copies based on innerstructure of CD - he read entire clusters of package information and write it on HDD, and later on destination CDR. But he require a burninghardware with raw-servise in read and write method. Only this way we can make perfectly and exactly copies of original cds. lurker-regards JerzyK 'The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.' (NP- RainbowSerpent-Voyager) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zanim zaczniesz swoj dzien... >>> http://dziendobry.interia.pl/ From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:57 am Subject: [tadream] Deadly Care Hi all, Just heard some TD music on French TV, worth mentioning because it's so rare in this country, on a programme called 'Envoyé Spécial', France 2, Thursday 10th January 2002, they played 'In Bed' from 'Deadly Care'. It was a programme about women keeping or aborting downs syndrome babies, charming subject... Paul From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:00 pm Subject: [tree] Name Really, I'd like this project and these discs to have a name that will be memorable and meaningful 5 years from now. I realize this is a tree, but does the name have to say 'tree'? Would 'Tangerine Tree' mean anything 5 years from now? Album Cover: _______________________ | | | TraumEpoche | | _______________ | | | | | | | | | | | artwork | | | | here | | | | | | | |_______________| | | | | Tangerine Dream | |_______________________| Obviously patterned after the classic LP covers. Or how about 'TraumKatalysator'? Or 'Epoche von Träumen'? Regarding 'The trees are tangerine', 1) That was The Ones, not Tangerine Dream, and 2) Edgar has stated that the name did not come from 'Lucy in the Skies With Diamonds'. I'd really like these discs to have non-kitsch names that have dignity and that are in German. My 2E-2 U$D -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31261 Re: [tree] Name and artwork Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: jbrenholts@a... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [Tree] a name In a message dated 1/12/2002 5:09:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gustavojobim@n... writes: << what's the word for 'tangerine tree' in german? >> mandarine bau, and that sounds cool also! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31253 Re: [Tree] a name jbrenholts@a... Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: jbrenholts@a... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [Tree] a name In a message dated 1/12/2002 8:03:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbrenholts@a... writes: << In a message dated 1/12/2002 5:09:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gustavojobim@n... writes: << what's the word for 'tangerine tree' in german? >> mandarine bau, and that sounds cool also! >> oops! it is mandarine baum! From: Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:36 pm Subject: Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! >Quoten goozergrafx : > > Got Reason, started the obligatory TD-esque track (Dementia Ranger-to > be finshed whenever...), quickly moved on to my own ideas... > > It is not very hard at all to produce the required sounds for a 'TD > style' track-the samples for basically all of the old analogue/modular > gear are out there-but the question soon becomes one of what do *you* > want to sound like? Or at least it should...RMI, AS, FSP and the rest > have already made the waters warm, so to speak. It's easy to make a bass sound, but a fat Moogbass like sound is something different. I've come across very very little machines which are capable of it. I guess I want to sound like FSP...they're my hero's. :-) Hmmm it's kind of strange nobody reacted to the speed which CDRs are recorded or that nobody is concerned about it. I've had quite some recordings which had some flaws in it because of burning with a too high speed. Even recently I got the Hampshire recordings and, while Tony Sawford has done a superb job recording the whole event, it definitely had some flaws because of the higher speeds. He made us a new master and it was good. If you want good material then you have to record it the right way. It may take a while but it makes all the difference. Plus it gets worse more down the leaves...if a branch is copying at a high speed and the 2nd one is copying at also a high speed then the flaws/errors has doubled. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels (FSP site) mengels@w... From: 'Craig Cordrey' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:28 pm Subject: RE: [tree] Some General Comments Folks, The tree topic has certainly picked things up. I wonder if Heiko is now cowering in the corner of a room thinking 'What have I done?'. Some general comments from me on a numbr of issues: Artwork: Personally, I like the idea of a common look to the artwork of all the disks that appear in the series. I'd also prefer individuals to download the artwork from some suitable site rather than have it sent on CD. Printed would also be good (but since I have a temperamental printer, I worry for anyone for whom I am the branch. Title: I can't remember the last time TD used a German album title, so why should we? I also don;t understand why the word 'Dream' has to be in there - I find some of TD's official album titles a little irritating in this respect. THis frees us to use titles along the lines of those used on existing boots (e.g. Sonambulistic Imagery, Spherical Harmonics, Raetikon, Antaktis). I do like the idea of having a simple title for the tree and having each CD numbered (e.g. Tree Title 1 - Live at Dunfermline Carnegie Hall). Media: I have a much larger problem with the issue of media. I am not an audiophile - I am happy if the media plays and tend not to worry about the make. Certainly there are some makes that appear to record better on my burner and so I tend to stick to these. And as for burning mechanism - I use Easy CD Creator and if that isn't good enough then I guess I#ll have to switch from branch to tree. Althoguh I have my preferences, I don't reall mind about the artwork and name. The media, however, may mean that I am not able to particpate as a branch. I trust that when the tress get up and running, any specific instructions will be made clear before we commit to being branches or leaves. All the best, Craig Cordrey Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31293 Re: [tree] Some General Comments Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/14/2002 4 KB From: kassel24@h... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:54 pm Subject: Are : Audio and Data CDR are identical ? Morgan You suggested that Audio and Data CDR are identical ... they are not... there is obvious physical differences between Data and Audio CDR.... reflective surface for instance........ i.e. Gold vs. Blue surface.. that makes me suspicious for a start .....? What you suggest is all CDR's are the same .......... except the price then !? Perhaps... ?! I have seen data on Data CDR life span, but not on Audio CDR.... that would be a interesting comparison... Ray 'Audio and Data CDR are identical.Audio CDR are tagged differently and are useable in standalone (separate box) music CD copiers. 1/2 of the price of Audio CDR blanks is a 'music piracy tax' that is paid to the music labels (not the artists). Some standalone CD Recorders can be hacked to use ordinary data CDRs. I have heard nothing conclusive to state that you are really buying anything extra with an Audio CDR than a small cheque for the music industry. -Morgan' From: 'L. Darby' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 4:13 pm Subject: Mac for shn? No Mac tools ? Not quite. On this link: http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html there are links for Mac tools for shn. SHN IS a distribution format -- it's just not as great a playable format (although there are plugins here http://www.etree.org/software.html for windows and Linux users.) The way the other groups use shn is to ensure (!!) that music on the disks from seed>superbranch>branch is identical. That is where the md5 sum comes into place. The other advantage is that a copy of an shn disk can be done as a data disk with no extraction needed. For those who want more info on shn, here is the link I sent Mark. http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html CD TOM _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:12 pm Subject: Breaking up tracks across discs. >Mark Filipak said: > >Overlap across discs >==================== >I'd like to suggest: When breaking a set to fit on 2 or more discs, duplicate >at least 5 seconds of material from the end of one disc to the beginning of the >following disc. That way, when a larger capacity media becomes commonly >available (such as DVD-audio), we can all simply edit out the overlap and join >the wav files and reburn. > >Technical notes on discs >======================== >I'd also like to see notations on the discs as to the time or number of frames >or bytes up to the point of the overlap so that future editing will be easier >-- it would take the guess work out of snipping off the overlap prior to >joining for the larger capacity media in the future. An example of a note might >be this: I'm hopeful that, like the Digital Tape Tree, NONE of the concerts will be broken in the middle of a track from disc to disc. This is really an analog cassette way of doing things and is really not very nice for the listener. Since most TD sets are 24 to 44 minutes long, I'd say that every effort should be made to put each set or piece of a concert in its entirety on a disc and then either put encores or other bits as filler. CD-Rs are getting cheap enough and burners fast enough that having a disc with 5-10 min of free space is not going to kill anyone. For those who are concerned about putting as much as 76 min of audio on an 80 min CDR, CD-Recordable drives are running $70 for 8x models now. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31262 Re: Breaking up tracks across discs. Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31294 Re: Breaking up tracks across discs. Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:20 pm Subject: Audio vs. Data CDR >kassel24 said >You suggested that Audio and Data CDR are identical ... they are not... >there is obvious physical differences >between Data and Audio CDR.... reflective surface for instance........ i.e. >Gold vs. Blue surface.. >that makes me suspicious for a start .....? >What you suggest is all CDR's are the same .......... except the price then >!? Perhaps... ?! It's funny because in the CD-R world, specifically data, gold-bottomed discs are generally not desireable as they, along with some of the green-bottom discs are made with the cheapest materials and some lasers have trouble reading them, etc. In the audio world, this seems to be different. I would like to hear more inputs on this. The bottom line though, is that in organizing the tree, people the branches have to be able to copy from a Data CD master, as I am sure that is what Hieko is providing. And that whoever is mailing blanks to their branches must be aware if they must send Data or Audio CDRs (or a few bucks in lieu of trying to hunt down the proper discs). But let's be sure, gold, blue, green, silver, and black-bottom CDRs are all available in reasonable prices for data CDR. I have some black-bottom CDRs sitting here at the moment waiting for some important project. Perhaps the test pressings of Definitive Dominion :) -Morgan From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:30 pm Subject: Bug in Nero 5.5 (for those interested) Since I saw alot of people say they use Nero as their preferred software for burning, I thought I would pass along this link which illustrates quite clearly the bug that truncates wave files when burning. It may or may not be noticeable, but why take a chance if you can easily find other programs that do not exhibit this problem. Just my two cents. http://www.geocities.com/lanekelly5/NeroBug.html Still looking forward to the tree! Craig From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:59 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Name and artwork TraumEpoche sounds nice, but maybe we could find a better name. What about Traumstücke (Dream pieces)? now this looks pretty good to me... I'd prefer the artwork taking the whole cover, not a framed cover as you seem to propose. We already have those ugly framed old TD CDs... I don't like framed covers, but a thick outline, or a thin frame like 0.5 cm thick often looks good to me. And it's better when you have to cut the paper, that way you avoid cutting any milimeter of artwork. >Really, I'd like this project and these discs to have a name that will be memorable and meaningful 5 years from now. I realize this is a tree, but does the name have to say 'tree'? Would 'Tangerine Tree' mean anything 5 years from now? > >Album Cover: _______________________ > | | > | TraumEpoche | > | _______________ | > | | | | > | | | | > | | artwork | | > | | here | | > | | | | > | |_______________| | > | | > | Tangerine Dream | > |_______________________| > >Obviously patterned after the classic LP covers. > >Or how about 'TraumKatalysator'? >Or 'Epoche von Träumen'? > >Regarding 'The trees are tangerine', 1) That was The Ones, not Tangerine Dream, and 2) Edgar has stated that the name did not come from 'Lucy in the Skies With Diamonds'. > >I'd really like these discs to have non-kitsch names that have dignity and that are in German. > >My 2E-2 U$D -- Mark Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:19 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Breaking up tracks across discs. >I'm hopeful that, like the Digital Tape Tree, NONE of the concerts will be >broken in the middle of a track from disc to disc. This is really an analog >cassette way of doing things and is really not very nice for the listener. I don't like this idea either. I would prefer something that would be functional, like ordering the concerts chronologically without breaking the tracks, even if we have to make 40-minute long CDs. We could arrange the concerts in a way that we could fit the most music in the CDs, but then we could have one concert in 3 cds, being the first and the third CD mixed with another concert, and it would be awkward if we had to skip tracks to listen to the beginning of the concert that is the 2nd track in cd1, being the first track 30 minutes long. I like the idea of doing it in chronological order and put bonus tracks, encores, interesting bits or maybe even interviews or tracks which are kind of hard to get such as the solo tracks in those boxes (I suppose that actually would be forbidden) to fill those spaces. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: kassel24@h... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:42 pm Subject: DVD Compact Disc Recordable Morgan The emails were going off track ... and appreciate this is not the forum to discuss this topic... I have looked up some data on Audio CDR and apparently this area is has a large variance...... all that can be said is that 'generally' Audio CDR's are made to a higher specification as opposed to Data CDR's .......... but Also the advent of DVD CDR .... in 5 years time everyone will be putting the equivalent of 8-10 audio CD's on one1 x DVD CDR .... thats a promise...!!! So we can reduce our collections to by about 80-90 % so the arguement is really over as the advent of new media format will take over ?!!!! So we might as well use cheap CDR's for the moment...! and then back them up onto DVD - CDR in 4-5 years time !!!! On another topic SACD vs CD Does anyone on the list own a SACD player... who also posses a copy of both Rubycon versions i.e. SACD + CD.... is their a 'difference' in sound ?!!! Would be interested to know..... presumably some SACD can be played on some CD equipment... but this is dependant on the manufacturer ?? Right or wrong... Ray Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31264 Re: DVD Compact Disc Recordable Michael A Jean Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 11:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] DVD Compact Disc Recordable I thought I saw a recordable DVD player at Best Buy last month! > > Also the advent of DVD CDR .... in 5 years time everyone will be > putting the > equivalent of 8-10 audio CD's on > one1 x DVD CDR .... thats a promise...!!! So we can reduce our > collections > to by about 80-90 % > so the arguement is really over as the advent of new media format > will take > over ?!!!! > So we might as well use cheap CDR's for the moment...! and then back them > up onto DVD - CDR in 4-5 years time !!!! > > > From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 12:43 am Subject: [tree] idea for artwork style That cover is very nice, Matthew! I've made a quick draft of how the cover could look. The artwork is made of simple and usual coreldraw textures. It all looks clean and simple, but still it looks nice to me. It can obviously be improved; this is just a draft. I've used the title 'TraumStücke' I've suggested. There's a 450 kb zipfile with the 2 jpgs, front and back, in our files folder at www.yahoogroups.com/group/tadream/files . GJ np: Sergey Kuryokhin >I've designed a number of TD bootleg covers for myself, and I use a >particular house style for all of them. I've placed an example on the web at >www.maff.da.ru/tdcov.htm Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 1:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. I was guessing that I would ask for 2 for 1, including the covers. Same brand same type. I can get access to DVD Ram. My question would be, How many would be able to use it? I can stick it on my Playstation 2 myself for playback but??? I am planning to spend a few weekends to make up the sets to sent out, hence why I said I would do only three leaves to start with. Spare time? Me? Nope, I am taking a online college class to add another degree, handling my ISP business, doing a full time day job as well as deal with 3 step kids to 9 grand kids. My life is full but I am willing to make this sacrifice because of the material. TD has had a great influence in my side endeavors (music). I am known to play TD all day in my office to much my office mates dislike. He is young kid into other forms of what may be called music in some circles. From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 7:27 am Subject: Orbital Decay in Concert For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, Orbital Decay will appear in concert at the Ice House on Sand Island. Located in historic Bethlehem, the Ice House is a wonderful venue for a concert of spacemusic. This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, starting at 8:00 pm. The doors will open at 7:30 pm and Chef Jeff will cater a free buffet dinner. Tickets at the door will be $10. A $2 discount will be given for members of WDIY who show their membership card. Orbital Decay consists of electric guitarist Tim Richardson and synthesist Terry Furber of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, located north of Philadelphia and south of the Lehigh Valley. Originally founded in 1979, the year when Skylab's orbit decayed in a firey return to Earth, the band is influenced by the likes of Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze, and Pink Floyd. Terry and Tim create improvisational electronic space music with the energy of fusion styles of the 70s. This means that Orbital Decay charts unexplored territory of sound and mood. Orbital Decay has three self-released CDR albums featuring their prolific studio jam sessions. These CDRs were featured on EMUSIC in December, 2001, as part of the Special Focus on Orbital Decay. On the 27th, Orbital Decay performed a live, in-studio concert on EMUSIC on WDIY. They also performed on Star's End last August. Listen to EMUSIC for more music from Orbital Decay. Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From East,West, North: Take Route 22 to Route 512/Center Street Exit (look for the Holiday Inn sign) At the exit, go south on Center Street. When Center Street becomes one-way, turn right. At the first light, turn left onto New Street. Go past Wall Street and at the dead end at Library turn right onto Church Street. Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue, go across. At the dead end, you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto River Street and go a few yards to the Ice House. Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From Philadelphia and South: Take Route 309 North. Take Route 378 into Bethlehem. At the end of Route 378 (the Hill to Hill Bridge), take a right for the Main Street exit. Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue go across. At the dead end you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto River Street and go a few yards to the Ice House. For more about Bethlehem, please visit http://www.bethtour.org/ For more information about the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton and vicinity), please visit http://www.lehighvalleypa.org/index.html For more information about EMUSIC, please visit http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic Bill billfox@f... http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic =============================================================================== Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. Thursdays at 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration. Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31277 Re: Orbital Decay in Concert Joe Shoults Sun 1/13/2002 6 KB From: 'ajogon' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 2:15 pm Subject: (OT) CDR FAQ I've posted this message yesterday, but apparently my mail server is having a bad weekend, so here it is again, via web: This is the URL of Andy McFadden's CD-Recordable FAQ, where you can read the answers to *all* your questions about CDRs and related software & hardware. http://www.cdrfaq.org/ Antonio P.S. If anyone have sent me e-mail, please send again to this address: np97fa 'at' mail 'dot' telepac 'dot' pt From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 2:47 pm Subject: tree -MP3 > 4) MP3's -- yep, no matter what you do, these tree'd items will be >ripped to mp3's and made available to the public via the net. Accept it >going in as a part of life. True, so why not start an MP3 tree (192 kB/s or higher) right away for those who prefer this format ? That would also cut down on copying time, disk and shipping cost for those who have to consider such expenses seriously. Don't forget we're talking over 15 year old concert tapes sourced from cassettes here (with one exception ;-) so a high-bitrate MP3 should be fully adequate, and one can always convert back to WAV and burn an audio CD from it a leisure. I'm prepared to volounteer as a root for the MP3-tree, i.e. do the conversion and supply continental roots with copies. cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31270 Re: tree -MP3 ajogon Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB From: 'ajogon' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 3:33 pm Subject: Re: tree -MP3 --- In tadream@y..., Klaus Beschorner wrote: > so why not start an MP3 tree (192 kB/s or higher) right > away for those who prefer this format ? Klaus, you took the words out of my mouth! I was going to suggest the same. A similar tree (A Sea of Dreams) was organized a few years ago, and it was very sucessful. > Don't forget we're talking over 15 year old concert > tapes sourced from cassettes here (with one exception ;-) > so a high-bitrate MP3 should be fully adequate, > and one can always convert back to WAV and burn > an audio CD from it a leisure. Agreed. And the quality of MP3 is being improved. See http://www.r3mix.net for high quality MP3 software. Antonio np: Tangerine Ambience 1 From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 5:23 pm Subject: [tree] tree -MP3 I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't suppose that Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main project. Okay? -- Mark Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > > 4) MP3's -- yep, no matter what you do, these tree'd items will be > >ripped to mp3's and made available to the public via the net. Accept it > >going in as a part of life. > > True, > so why not start an MP3 tree (192 kB/s or higher) right > away for those who prefer this format ? > That would also cut down on copying time, disk and > shipping cost for those who have to consider such > expenses seriously. > > Don't forget we're talking over 15 year old concert > tapes sourced from cassettes here (with one exception ;-) > so a high-bitrate MP3 should be fully adequate, > and one can always convert back to WAV and burn > an audio CD from it a leisure. > > I'm prepared to volounteer as a root for the MP3-tree, > i.e. do the conversion and supply continental roots > with copies. > > cheers, > klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31276 [tree] tree -MP3 Klaus Beschorner Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31287 Re: [tree] tree -MP3 atye@a... Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: DVD-R >I thought I saw a recordable DVD player at Best Buy last month! > > >> >> Also the advent of DVD CDR .... in 5 years time everyone will be >> putting the >> equivalent of 8-10 audio CD's on >> one1 x DVD CDR .... thats a promise...!!! DVD-R is getting amazingly cheap. $375 for a burner and $3 for a 4.7GB blank. And the discs it produces are compatible with 90% of standalone DVD players. -Morgan From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? >Mark Filipak said: >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't suppose that >Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't >sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main >project. Okay? -- Mark Sad to see such a vehement reaction. mp3 is growing in popularity now that the encoding software and sound quality has matured. I store (and have backups of) all of my concerts (~140 or so) natively in mp3 format and burn to music CDRs when necessary. Red Book Audio CDs are very wasteful of space, as a 192kbps mp3 produced by the higher quality software like Fraunhoffer or LAME are indistinguishable from the original, and you can put 6 hours of music on a disc. The mp3 version of Sea of Dreams was successful and did not detract in the slightest from the success of the CDR tree of the same. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31274 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Robert Grabowsky Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31275 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Mark Filipak Sun 1/13/2002 4 KB 31298 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? bigstupidgeek Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31317 Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31299 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:44 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? I have to agree with Mark. Forget about mp3!!! It creates extra work when you burn it if you don't want any hiccups in the music. I am not talking about 2 second gaps, those are correctable with DAO. However you still have a minute glitch which is noticable. Lets keep with the original idea. Robert > >Mark Filipak said: > >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't >suppose that > >Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't > >sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main > >project. Okay? -- Mark > From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:21 pm Subject: Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Morgan Feldon wrote: > > >Mark Filipak said: > >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't > suppose that > >Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't > >sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main > >project. Okay? -- Mark > > Sad to see such a vehement reaction. I have the deepest respect for you, Morgan, but I use Blade at 320 kbps (about 6:1 compression) and I can __still__ hear the difference between that and red book audio. For a project as important as this, I want the best possible sound and I'm willing to pay for it in the form of many discs and many 1X burns for my leaves. If I get a car player that is MP3 compatible, I may burn an MP3 volume at 128 or 196 kbps, but for home, only red book audio please. Yes, my reaction is vehement. Music is my religion and TD is my God! > mp3 is growing in popularity now that the encoding software and sound > quality has matured. I store (and have backups of) all of my concerts (~140 > or so) natively in mp3 format and burn to music CDRs when necessary. Red > Book Audio CDs are very wasteful of space, as a 192kbps mp3 produced by the > higher quality software like Fraunhoffer or LAME are indistinguishable from > the original, and you can put 6 hours of music on a disc. From what I see and hear, the newest LAME encoders are almost as good as Blade up to 196 kbps (and Blade still rules at higher bit rates). That's still not good enough for TD music. Yes, some music is indistinguishable to me, but that is simple music without a lot of multifrequency dynamics. The frequency masking that any MP3 encoder does is detectable to me when doing A-B tests with TD music (or classical orchestral music too). > The mp3 version of Sea of Dreams was successful and did not detract in the > slightest from the success of the CDR tree of the same. Well if some people want to do a parallel tree, of course that's their business, but I want to see the main tree go unhindered and with red book audio. That's all. I missed out on every previous tree and I don't want to 'miss' out on the best sound this time. Please understand and respect my wishes. This is a dream come true for me. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31298 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? bigstupidgeek Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31317 Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:51 pm Subject: [tree] tree -MP3 >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. Mark, calm down, so am I !!! I was talking about a _parallel_ MP3 tree for those who, by their own free will, chose to prefer this format. You should know me better ;-) cheers, klaus From: Joe Shoults Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Orbital Decay in Concert thanks for the announcement, Bill! Joe Tadream Listowner > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Fox [mailto:billfox@f...] > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 2:28 AM > To: Undisclosed.Recipients@p... > Cc: info@b...; geninfo@l...; Terry Furber; Tim > Richardson > Subject: [tadream] Orbital Decay in Concert > > > For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, > Orbital Decay will > appear in concert at the Ice House on Sand Island. Located > in historic > Bethlehem, the Ice House is a wonderful venue for a concert > of spacemusic. > This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, > starting at 8:00 pm. > The doors will open at 7:30 pm and Chef Jeff will cater a > free buffet dinner. > Tickets at the door will be $10. A $2 discount will be given > for members of > WDIY who show their membership card. > > Orbital Decay consists of electric guitarist Tim Richardson > and synthesist Terry > Furber of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, located north of > Philadelphia and south of > the Lehigh Valley. Originally founded in 1979, the year > when Skylab's orbit > decayed in a firey return to Earth, the band is influenced by > the likes of > Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze, and Pink Floyd. Terry and Tim create > improvisational electronic space music with the energy of > fusion styles of the > 70s. This means that Orbital Decay charts unexplored > territory of sound and > mood. > > Orbital Decay has three self-released CDR albums featuring > their prolific studio > jam sessions. These CDRs were featured on EMUSIC in December, > 2001, as part of > the Special Focus on Orbital Decay. On the 27th, Orbital > Decay performed a > live, in-studio concert on EMUSIC on WDIY. They also > performed on Star's End > last August. Listen to EMUSIC for more music from Orbital Decay. > > Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From East,West, North: > > Take Route 22 to Route 512/Center Street Exit (look for the > Holiday Inn sign) > At the exit, go south on Center Street. > When Center Street becomes one-way, turn right. > At the first light, turn left onto New Street. > Go past Wall Street and at the dead end at Library turn right > onto Church > Street. > Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. > At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue, go across. > At the dead end, you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto > River Street and go a > few yards to the Ice House. > > Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From > Philadelphia and South: > > Take Route 309 North. > Take Route 378 into Bethlehem. > At the end of Route 378 (the Hill to Hill Bridge), take a > right for the Main > Street exit. > Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. > At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue go across. > At the dead end you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto River > Street and go a > few yards to the Ice House. > > For more about Bethlehem, please visit http://www.bethtour.org/ > For more information about the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, > Bethlehem, Easton and > vicinity), please visit http://www.lehighvalleypa.org/index.html > > For more information about EMUSIC, please visit > http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic > > Bill billfox@f... > http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic > ============================================================== > ================= > Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. > Thursdays at > 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in > Easton and > Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for > airplay consideration. > Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Interesting mp3 mix Well I finally got a chance to download this and hear it. I wonder if Jerome's heard it. I hope not. As for Edgar, he'd probably have a sh*t fit. 8-)))) -- Mark 'Owens, James' wrote: > > I just found an intersting file that mixes Dolphin Dance with a track by > Dead can Dance called 'Piece for Solo Flute'. > > I'd never heard the flute piece before, but it fits incredibly well into the > Dolphin Dance chord progressions. If the mixer had done a better mixing job > it would be pretty awesome. As it stands, it sounds a bit like he turned on > Dolphin Dance on one stereo, and mixed it in with a mic into '...Solo > Flute'. This wouldn't be that bad except that '...Solo Flute is WAY too > forward in the mix. At any rate, the track is called: > Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream - Piece for Solo Flute & Dolphin Dance > (DjCH mix).mp3 > > It's circulating around the usual MP3 channels. > > James From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31281 [tree] artwork Mark Filipak Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31282 [tree] artwork Mark Filipak Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31283 Re: [tree] artwork Matthew Sawyer Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31285 Re: [tree] artwork meta_mythos Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31286 Re: [tree] artwork Joe Shoults Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31303 Re: [tree] artwork Éric Rochon Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31948 [tree] artwork Morgan Feldon Wed 2/6/2002 3 KB 31950 Re: [tree] artwork j.gordon Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB 31951 Re: [tree] artwork Heiko Heerssen Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: vic rek Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I vote for the title '... and Marmalade Skies'. I think I've seen enough CD-R titles with the word '...Dream...' in them. Also, I don't believe the title needs to be in German since Tangerine Dream does not release their titles in German. And asking Edgar to use the TD Logo? - Forget it! So this implies that I'm in - but only as a leaf (or weed). Vic > I know I suggested 'A Dream Come True', but I've thought it over. I'd like to suggest some names that express > > 1) The spirit of TD music (e.g., Pergammon, Exit and others), > 2) The Internet's part in this, and > 3) A hope for the future. > > 'One World Dream' > 'World of Dreams' > 'Dreams of the World' > 'World Dreaming' > 'Dream Age of the World' > 'Dream of Worlds to Come' > 'Dreaming of Worlds to Come' > 'Earth Dreams' > 'Dream Age' > 'Age of Dreams' > 'Epoch of Dreams' > 'Dream Horizon' > 'Dream Catalyst' > > No matter what name is chosen (and really, any title is okay with me) I would like it to be in German. TD is a German band. It makes German music. We owe a lot to the German spirit of rebirth that is in TD music and in the German people. I think it would be a nice tribute. > > I also think it would be nice if we could use the TD logo. Could Edgar be persuaded? (Probably not!) From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: RE:[tree] artwork I really like front1.jpg (side view with Chris at the Moog). That's what I see in my mind when I think of TD in concert. Well done!! -- Mark Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > Maff From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:58 pm Subject: RE:[tree] artwork Just one more thing. How about 'Digital Tree'. It's not really a 'Tape Tree' yaknow. -- Mark Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > Maff From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork From: 'Mark Filipak' > Just one more thing. How about 'Digital Tree'. It's not really a 'Tape Tree' yaknow. -- Mark Yeah, all the text on these are temporary samples and easily changed. ;-) Maff From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name How about? Diamond Dreams The Road Less Travelled Rare Visions 8-) Dell >From: Heiko Heerssen >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name >Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:07:11 +0100 > >Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in >a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a >good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > >-(The) Tangerine Tree >-Marmalade skies >-A dream come true > >any other ideas? :-) As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: 'meta_mythos' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:28 pm Subject: Re: RE:[tree] artwork > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm Great work Matthew, impressive. You certanly have my vote ! B. From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:53 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork saweeeet! > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sawyer [mailto:matthewsawyer@c...] > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:23 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork > > > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > > Maff > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: atye@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:46 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] tree -MP3 You have my vote for a parallel MP3 tree. It would be easier on some members to burn copies at their leisure. Alex (ATYE) (ps - great job Maff !) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:01 am Subject: Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream Anyone who wants 'Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream - Piece for Solo Flute & Dolphin Dance (DjCH mix).mp3' can have it. Send me a message off list and I'll attach it to the reply. It's 4,775,936 bytes, so make sure your mailbox is big enough. Pleasant listening.... he-he-he-ha-ha-haw-haw-harrrrrrrrrrr! Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31289 Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream Mark Filipak Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:07 am Subject: Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream This is a correction to what I wrote earlier. The MP3 file is 4,775,936 bytes long, but after it has been hex encoded as an email attachment it is 6.4 M-bytes. Hope this didn't create any problems for anyone. Ciao -- Mark From: scfeldman@j... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:11 am Subject: Don't Let the Asskissers and Edgar Apologists Dictate the Tree's Contents On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 03:34:11 -0500 Mark Filipak writes: >Adele Outland wrote: > >>I've listened to a few concert recordings and find that >>for the most part there are certain sections I look >>forward to and some I just bide my time through. [...] That's probably because some of it is just plain lackluster and/or boring except to those who would, say delight in listening to a recording of Edgar testing his guitar pickup before rehearsing a song. >>Let's face it, improv is not always masterful [...] Let's be honest here: sometimes it sucks shit -- badly. >>[...] I don't think it is necessary to release an entire >>concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best >>parts. So true. An excellent case in point is LIVEMILES. I can really only stomach the 9 minute section with the rendition of 'Dolphin Dance,' as I find most of the rest of this disc pretty insipid. >I didn't read past this. My reaction, Adele? You're about >to get it (brace yourself!) > >1 - What is one person's good parts is entirely a matter of >PERSONAL opinion. Yeah, well king Edgar himself thinks so little of some of his own material that he often sees fit to re-work and re-release it any old which way he sees fit. A good case of a track that many a TD fan feels is a travesty is the redone 'Upland' on BEYOND THE STORM. And need I mention THE KEEP? And hey, come on, some stuff just plain sucks. Would you like a complete album's worth of turkeys like 'Optical Race,' 'Lost Tale' and 'Fort Worth Runway One'? Sure, some people like these tracks, but then, some people like spam kebobs and poptarts. >2 - If you want to cut out the boring parts, feel free to >take your CDR, and burn a 'best of' version. >3 - Don't presume to make decisions for anyone but you. But isn't just what you are doing? Notice also that not many people are clamoring for 'live' stuff from 1989 to the present. That's because that is TD's Milli Vanilli phase: when, for the most part, it ain't live, it *is* Memorex! And it's all cover tunes, to boot! Borrrrrrrrring. >Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) Well, I certainly do. Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything Edgar poops out of his ass is worthy of adoration. Discrimination is a term which draws a lot of flak, and yet its antithesis is indiscriminacy which implies a lack of critical reasoning. -- Steven Feldman , webmaster for the Chang Cheh website at http://changcheh.0catch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Peter Prisekin aka Dusty Chalk Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:56 am Subject: Re: [tadream] DVD Compact Disc Recordable and Rubycon on SACD kassel24@h... wrote: > Also the advent of DVD CDR .... That would be 'DVD-R'. > presumably some SACD can be played on some CD equipment... but this is > dependant on the manufacturer ?? > Right or wrong... Yes, that is correct. You will know if a SACD is of the 'hybrid' variety or not, because it should say it right on the front. The ones that are SACD-only are not allowed to have the CD logo on them! Only the hybrids (has both CD and SACD layers) can be played in regular CD players. Right now, it is most of them. -- I remain, :-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:21 am Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True Maff, I'm a graphic designer, but I have to take my hat off to the prior design (a few days ago) and then the ones in your last e-mail pointing to: http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm My favorite would be he backdrop of Back 2 but reworked as a front design, and then Back 3, and then just change the labeling and have a huge number (in the same font at 80% transparency) signifying which disc it is. This way you can tell at a glance which of these identical-looking discs is which. Or, Back 1 but reworked as a front design, and then Back 3. Had you intended to have each disc look unique? If so, I like the styles of all of your prototypes. Or if a couple of prototypes were chosen, they could each be repeated 4-5 times with different color schemes. I see you also have awesome prototypes with band/tour pictures as the main piece. Many of the bootlegs out there try to draw from the very small pool of band/tour pictures and the fidelity is limited, or they have a couple of smaller pictures in boxes with a lot of Kai's effects. I love your full-cover-size band/tour picture prototype, but the question is, how many of these pictures are available? If it's a lot, I say get as many pictures of the appropriate tours (doesn't have to match the venue) and go for it. I vote for Maff's designs. :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:32 am Subject: RE: [tree] Some General Comments > The tree topic has certainly picked things up. I wonder if Heiko is now > cowering in the corner of a room thinking 'What have I done?'. I did nothing else since I left my office on Friday!! ;-))))) > Artwork: Personally, I like the idea of a common look to the artwork of all > the disks that appear in the series. I'd also prefer individuals to download > the artwork from some suitable site rather than have it sent on CD. Printed > would also be good (but since I have a temperamental printer, I worry for > anyone for whom I am the branch. I don't even have a colour printer or scanner at all, each time someone asks me for a cdr trade I have to pull out the covers and take them to the copy shop for duplicating which is quite expensive. I once asked my wife if it would be ok to buy a PC burner but all she mumbled was 'if you do that I'm going for a divorce' (urgh ;-) It's funny that the one who started the 'tree' discussion seems to be the one who is still living in the 80s (tape deck, receiver, two standalone audio cd burners, cd player) But I already founds some helping hands who seem to be 'pro's' in remastering and I'm sure that I will meet the (high) expectations of those people who already signed up for the tree...if not I guess it's better for me to unsubscribe from the list ~LOL~ Regarding the artwork: I have absolutely no knowledge and talent or even the right equipment to create it myself, but it seems there are already a couple of people who showed interest. But a common look of the artwork is also something which I had in mind. > I do like the idea of having a simple title for the tree and > having each CD numbered (e.g. Tree Title 1 - Live at Dunfermline Carnegie > Hall). yup. I also want to add information about the 'generation' of a recording (master tape, 2nd gen etc.) Maybe we should use subsequent numbers/volumes for the CDR's, just like the 'digital tape tree'. > Media: I have a much larger problem with the issue of media. I am not an > audiophile - I am happy if the media plays and tend not to worry about the > make. My 'originals' (those which will get distributed to the 'branches') will be Audio CDR's, simply because it's the only kind of cdr which I am able to record & copy. At the moment I'm using a cheap brand called 'ProLine', but for the Tree I will use a better brand because these ProLine cdr's are very thin. Heiko P.S.: for those who do not know it, I only have internet & e-mail access during worktime (Monday to Friday), this means that I can't always respond in time :-) From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Breaking up tracks across discs. > Since most TD sets are 24 to 44 minutes long, I'd say that every effort > should be made to put each set or piece of a concert in its entirety on a > disc and then either put encores or other bits as filler. This is exactly what is going to happen. I will record each CDR up to 74.00 minutes, but in case I can't find a suitable track as filler I am not going to split a recording as this would ruin the whole music. Also, I will not use excerpts, the music is much too good to make a fade-out! :-) Heiko From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:07 am Subject: [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork > I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. This is also the number I had in mind. I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31296 Re: [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the Matthew Sawyer Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31300 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31301 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork heineu Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31314 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork PENFOLD Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31315 Re: [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the Administrator for kay-net.com Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork From: 'Heiko Heerssen' > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover > artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover > artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible > for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) I'd be happy to handle the first ten covers or as many as are required. Alternatively if you want to keep the style uniform for all 60 discs any designers on the list could send me their graphics and I could use them in the template. That would keep the look consistent across all the discs while giving everyone a chance to contribute. Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:01 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True From: 'Morgan Feldon' > Had you intended to have each disc look unique? Thanks Morgan. Each cover would have a different graphic image and if possible a different band/concert photo (the photos on the sample covers are from the Royal Albert Hall and one from the Berlin Philharmonics). These are pretty rare - in fact I think I've used just about the only two decent ones available on the net already. Anyone on the list have any TD photos they'd like to contribute? I have a nice EF/CF/PB photo which I'd like to add to the cover spine, so once all the CD's are arranged on the shelf the photo appears. Maff From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:06 am Subject: Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? -- In tadream@y..., Mark Filipak wrote: > Morgan Feldon wrote: > > > > >Mark Filipak said: > > >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I ... > Well if some people want to do a parallel tree, of course that's their business, but I want to see the main tree go unhindered and ... I'll kill two birds here, and add a little more from another correspondence: (in response to concerns of people being overwhelmed and releasing projects to the tree one at a time) Well, I guess that depends on how quickly the shows can be 'fed' into the tree. I'm not sure if Heiko has them all ready or not. I agree with you that it could be in stages, but I also think that if people have the wherewithall (is that really a word?) to do it all at once for their leaves or sub branches, there's nothing wrong with being ahead of schedule. We have an overabundance of branches, which is a good thing; this means it should go faster, with fewer people you have to burn for underneath you. If we have a release schedule so that there is some pace to it, people won't get inundated. If a leaf isn't in a big rush, maybe they will save a little postage by waiting for their branch to send all the CDs at once (but I bet most people will want at least the first one asap!) The mp3 tree can go straight down the same distribution tree; might as well. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, this might save everybody postage, if they could get by just listening to the mp3s until the CDs came. Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31317 Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? > Well, I guess that depends on how quickly the shows can be 'fed' into > the tree. I'm not sure if Heiko has them all ready or not. Although I have all the concerts I mentioned in my 'provisional list' there's still a lot of work to do because most of them will get remastered/improved by friends of mine. This obviously requires a bit of work and time, but I want this 'tree' to be as perfect as possible right from the beginning, and I'm sure that no-one wants to have a '2nd edition' which sounds much better than the first one. As soon as I have the first 10 discs ready I will let you know, I think Matthew will do the artwork for the first batch and then someone else is responsible for creating the cover. > If we have a release schedule so that there is some pace to it, > people won't get inundated. At the moment I can't come up with a release date, sorry. My best guess would be 2-3 weeks from now. Heiko From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:44 pm Subject: Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork I still think it would be better if we had double volumes, I mean, each box with two CDs, since I believe most concerts will be 2 CDs long. We would then have 1 box and 1 artwork for each concert and would save space on people's shelves... (at least I have almost ran totally out of space for cds now...) I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better to me if we mixed the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. The photo on the spine is a nice idea, Maff! >> I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. > > This is also the number I had in mind. > > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) > > Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31301 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork heineu Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31314 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork PENFOLD Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: 'heineu' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:55 am Subject: Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Hi Gustavo, I agree with you, 2CDR Box with one concert and one artwork. Regards heiko - Mr. Optical www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de --- In tadream@y..., Gustavo Jobim wrote: > I still think it would be better if we had double volumes, I mean, each box > with two CDs, since I believe most concerts will be 2 CDs long. We would > then have 1 box and 1 artwork for each concert and would save space on > people's shelves... (at least I have almost ran totally out of space for cds > now...) > > I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better to me if we mixed > the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. > > The photo on the spine is a nice idea, Maff! > > >> I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. > > > > This is also the number I had in mind. > > > > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) > > > > Heiko From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork > We would then have 1 box and 1 artwork for each concert and would save space on > people's shelves... that's a good idea, it also reduces the cost of buying CD cases, printing out the cover artwork etc. Contrary to what I said before I think the first batch will consist of 15-20 CDRs, and although in most cases I don't want to record more than 74 minutes of music onto each CDR there sometimes may be an exception to the rule. Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31322 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Joe Shoults Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Éric Rochon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:33 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: RE:[tree] artwork Very nice cover ! > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art > looks. > > > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > Great work Matthew, impressive. > > You certanly have my vote ! > > B. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'rtol008' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:19 pm Subject: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Hi all! There has been some discussion about the format, which to use. Some people want to have audio and some people want to have mp3. Audio is fine for me but there is also other alternatives available to consider. Why not use SHN which is compressed wav-file. + It is lossless. + It can be extracted back to wav to make audio CDRs. + It consumes little bit less space than wav-files. Size is about 60% (this my experience) from the original wav-file. + Files can be copied to CDR as data so it is easy to verify that there is no errors -> there is a checksum file generated. + There is a plugin for Winamp available. + And also the last leaf who gets copy of a copy of a copy ... gets as originals as the first who in the top of the tree. - if you don't have a computer and cannot create audio-CDs, you can't play these in your CD plyer :( Check this if you want to know more about SHN: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html regards, timo Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31305 Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! airsculpture Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31306 Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! atye@a... Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'airsculpture' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! First up, please count me in! I don't mind being a leaf or a branch, I have a good burner (though I don't have a color printer). Given how lazy I am, and the shortage of leaves in some prior trees, maybe a leaf would be better... I was going to make a suggestion that WAVs are used when passing from branch to branch, and to any leaves that want them. Copying audio data from CD to CD isn't entirely lossless (due to error correction & jitter), and it seems worth the extra effort to keep all of the data 'pure' if possible. then: --- In tadream@y..., 'rtol008' wrote: > Audio is fine for me but there is also other alternatives available > to consider. Why not use SHN which is compressed wav-file. If this format is free, really lossless and available to everyone who cares (mac users, etc) then it might be an even better idea. I've got a couple of very good 1st gen recordings (or is that 0th gen) from the 86 tour, which have never been traded. I really must make CD copies of those, and add some input to the project. See above re: laziness though. jc From: atye@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! An SHN tree sounds good to me..... I am sure that no one wants to receive a poorer copy of the music just by participating in an MP3 tree. That was suggested as an easy alternative for file transfer (for some) and not a punishment in sound quality. SHN, high bit-rate MP3's or some other method is fine as long as the files come from an original CD and are good quality. my 2 cent's worth..... ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:13 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Don't Let the Asskissers and Edgar Apologists Dicta te the Tree's Contents Dude, what you got against poptarts and spam kebobs? sheesh, lighten up for Pete's sake. > -----Original Message----- > From: scfeldman@j... [mailto:scfeldman@j...] > And hey, come on, some stuff just plain sucks. Would > you like a complete album's worth of turkeys like 'Optical > Race,' 'Lost Tale' and 'Fort Worth Runway One'? Sure, some > people like these tracks, but then, some people like spam > kebobs and poptarts. From: 'j.gordon' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:02 pm Subject: [tree] Names and such hey, all... i thought i'd throw a word or too in here... i see no reason why the name of the tree couldn't be a german word or words... Raetikon is a great name and all the original names for Antarkis are german... it works so long as every digs it... i personally like the idea of dropping dream from the name... it limits the scope and concept of the name, i think... a very cool german word for a name would be Dämmerung (which loosely translates as twilight, but of either morning or eve and can be used in a very figurative way as to mean what ever one might like to think) anyway, i'd love to throw my hat in the ring for doing some graphics, but am not sure who to cooridnate with, or if there is a queue to get behind... =) j __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: quarlie@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Don't Write a Book in the Subject Line; That's What the Message Body Is For In a message dated 1/14/02 12:13:47 AM, scfeldman@j... writes: >And hey, come on, some stuff just plain sucks. Would >you like a complete album's worth of turkeys like 'Optical >Race,' 'Lost Tale' and 'Fort Worth Runway One'? Sure, some >people like these tracks, but then, some people like spam >kebobs and poptarts. Hey now--quality is subjective. I like 'Fort Worth Runway One'; you appear to be saying there's something wrong with my taste in music. What gives you the authority to determine that? You may have different tastes, but that doesn't mean that one of us is wrong and the other is right. --Daniel NP: Jonn Serrie - Planetary Chronicles, Volume 1 From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs - one idea When they get the total tally of people involved and where they are from, it will be much easier to group them to locale, so no one has a 'long distance' trade going. Mike At 09:01 PM 01/11/2002 -0200, you wrote: >As far as I remember there was a list of the branches available... the >main point was that the cost would be passed in form of the person making >copies for someone else. the person who received a copy would pay by >sending another copy for someone else. I think this is a good idea; I'm >not very comfortable with the idea of sending money to another country. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:49 pm Subject: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent quality audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is enough to justify a subtree. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31316 Re: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Administrator for kay-net.com Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31319 Re: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Joe Shoults Mon 1/14/2002 4 KB 31328 Re: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Chris Owen Mon 1/14/2002 5 KB 31333 What is B&P? Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: scfeldman@j... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: Subjectivity (was Don't Write a Book in the Subject Line) On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:21:56 EST quarlie@a... writes: >Hey now--quality is subjective. True, and yet it is also possible to form opinions by way of taking note of consensus and critical feedback. >I like 'Fort Worth Runway One'; you appear to be saying >there's something wrong with my taste in music. Yeah, sort of. Ever hear of 'Mods against Rockers' or 'Rock Rules, Disco Sucks' or 'Punk versus Metal'? It is an aesthetic stance based on strident subjective grandstanding, but hey, it works for me. ;) >What gives you the authority to determine that? Having nearly everything TD has issued commercially (barring superfluous compilations) and having played this stuff 'till I'm blue in the face has made me think that I might have a clue as to what constitutes great TD and what constitutes lesser TD. For example, I think it's safe to say that RUBYCON is a better album than TRANSSIBERIA is. >You may have different tastes, but that doesn't mean that >one of us is wrong and the other is right. Hey, I'm right as far as I'm concerned, and you're right as far as you're concerned. No biggie. >--Daniel >NP: Jonn Serrie - Planetary Chronicles, Volume 1 Hey, well at least we agree on the above being a great album. :) Stephie-mouse http://molasar.tripod.com/titmouse.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31336 Re: Subjectivity (was Don't Write a Book in the S moxica@m... Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:56 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True One more comment on A Dream Come True. I'm organizing a website that will chronicle which bootlegs are available for which concerts and which are the most complete and best quality for each show. A big untertaking yes, but worth it. On the tray card (back) of the Digital Trees, I think it would be nice if a short list of all the major recordings of that concert were listed. For instance, for Royal Albert Hall 1975, the tray card could say 'This replaces: Coefficient of Aural Expansion Ruby in the Sky Phaedream Royal Dreams' -Morgan From: PENFOLD Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork At 02.01.14-09:44, Gustavo Jobim wrote: >I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better to me if we >mixed the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. I agree here as well.....let's spread the fun and showcasing of talent around! Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Actually I would not have a problem doing this myself either. I just want the best Audio possible on those CD's. Covers are nice, SOUND is better. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Heiko Heerssen' To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:07 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork > > > > I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. > > This is also the number I had in mind. > > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) > > Heiko > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! I read what you are saying but why lower quality for a few extra CDr's? Go with the highest possible, make your own MP3's afterward. I would like Master CDr's done at the highest possible quality. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Morgan Feldon' To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:49 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent quality > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is enough to justify > a subtree. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Rolf Elfström Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Isn't it possible to put up a ftp-site (password protected) with the mp3s for those of us on the list that can't afford (or for any other reason can't take part in) the tree but still would like to get hold of the music and the artworks (as jpg's or another format) ??? Having high-speed access to the net 24-7 and enough bad hearing to make 192 mp3s 'good enough' for me would make this an ideal way to get the music. =) And once the songs are in the ftp it wouldn't distract any efforts from the original tree, it's just another way to get the songs for those of us who would settle with mp3s. Getting the mp3s in a tree-distribution and still having to burn/post discs doesn't really work for me... but I would hate to miss out on this. Anybody on the list with access to enough ftp-space?? Rolf From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:27 am Subject: new artwork test Hello everyone, I've tried a new idea for cover style and artwork; this one is very colorful; I could say, quite psychedelic-esque. I put the files in our tadream/files folder. they're called tree_test2_front and back.jpg. From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:19 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! You know, we can get bogged down with all this - and I know it's just talk and only talk at this point - but the main thing is just to get the damn disks out. People are not going to want to mess with all this crap and the more complicated we make it the bloodier it will get. The bottom line is that all this detail is between you and your branchline. If you want SHN format, find a branch that wants to distribute in that format. I will be charting out the branches, and I have no problem making one or two legs of the branch as shn or whatever, but i'm not going to make a branch for every Tom, Dick and Harry format out there. We will keep it simple: make the whole damn thing audio CDs (redbook) and piggyback an mp3 set on top of that, for those that want it (I do). If you want to mess with the SHN format, let me know via e-mail and I will add that to your notes field in the participant's table at http://www.tadream.net/tree Thank, Joe P.A. and this is a reminder: If you have a beef with someone else on the list, you take it up with them personally, offlist. Do not use this mailing list as a way to bait them into guilty action or reconciliation; i.e., for a past trade gone awry. This list is not your conflict resolution resource. Thank you. > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:50 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > > > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious > reworking to do > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth > of material > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of > excellent quality > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is > enough to justify > a subtree. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:12 pm Subject: Homepage update !!! Hi, update : www.opticaldream.de (14-Jan-2001) NEW: - Mars Polaris Press Information Folder - Pictures for all loser`s of the auction ;-) - The Calling Promo Interview CD with short Franke track - 5 DJ Promo Vinyls of the first 5 Ground Liftaz Releases and the NEW Release - The Ones Promo Single - Schmoelling Track on : Music for the 3rd Millennium Vol. 3 - many new CD`s and Vinyls ... Jump to: www.opticaldream.de Regards heiko - Mr. Optical www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-.to-ashra.de http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs I would hope that this would all be broken down into small chunks. It seems ludicrous to make it one large mess. If, say three discs were treed at a time, it would all be much more manageable. I think this is the intention anyway. This is how I've done it on other lists. Mike At 12:18 AM 01/12/2002 -0200, you wrote: >hmm. thinking over and discussing i came to the conclusion that that thing >i was saying, about getting the cds for free and then sending for free >(instead of paying in one way or another for them), doesnt work in this >tree's case; it seems it's clocking at 30-60 cds... this would work nicely >if we were talking about 1, 2 or even 3 cds, but the work of burning and >packing and posting such a big amount of cds is just too much to fit this >system. >Gustavo Jobim >gustavojobim@n... > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to >http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:30 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork i see nothing wrong with a pool of covers from which you can choose. The artwork will be available for download anyway, so you can pick the version you want and print it. Matt has the best idea with the spine image; maybe gustavo or others will want to do the same thing (hope so). I also like the idea of the hidden images. Let's do that. > -----Original Message----- > From: PENFOLD [mailto:penfold@a...] > At 02.01.14-09:44, Gustavo Jobim wrote: > >I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better > to me if we > >mixed the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. > > I agree here as well.....let's spread the fun and > showcasing of > talent around! > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:35 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] mp3 edition? I'm adding any notes such a s 'mp3=yes' or 'SHN preferred' to the notes on the participants roster page. If you have anything you want me to add next to your name, let me know off list. If I find time, I may convert it to a database so it is a little more self-serve flavored. The audio CD project will go through as planned, but if you want to conduct mp3 or shn trades on the side, at least you'll be able to find someone with whom to trade. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Rolf Elfström [mailto:rcade@r...] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:13 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: [tree] mp3 edition? > > > Isn't it possible to put up a ftp-site (password protected) > with the mp3s for those of us on the list that can't afford > (or for any other reason c From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:49 pm Subject: Re: Not doing complete concerts... Not naming names, but some have expressed disinterest in getting complete concerts on the new Digital Tree. Folks, there have been compilation after compilation of concert bits: Sea of Dreams (6 CDs) Real Dream Encores (3 CDs) Electronic History (6 CDs) Parallel Dreams (12 CDs) Parallel Dreams II (18 CDs) Eye-Box (6 CDs) The bottom line is, better recordings of the bootlegs we already have have surfaced in the last 2-3 years and the time has come to re-release them in the much better quality. If you have Patrolling Space Borders, Staatgrenze West, Coefficient of Aural Expansion/Phaedream/Ruby in the Sky, Danger Live, Acoustic LSD, Fractal Realities, Ratikon, the earlier 1983 Warsaw bootleg, etc. and some of the Digital Tape Tree discs put out just a few years ago, you hold a fossil in your hands. Better, lower generation recordings of concerts have been seeping out of the woodwork in the past few years and many of those recordings are being made available to the public. I see this as an incredible gift and feel fortunate to be able to benefit. If some folks aren't interested, then don't sign up for the tree, but please don't try to sabotage it for the rest of us. If you didn't get involved in the 51 CDs worth of bootleg compilations listed above, then that was your choice. These were and still are still available at very reasonable trade rates (usually media and post). Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing 2 CDRs per concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31327 Re: Not doing complete concerts... Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31329 Tape trees Matthew Stringer Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31332 Re: Tape trees Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31334 Re: Tape trees Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:54 pm Subject: I'm agreeing with you! It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to be useful. -Morgan >Admin for kay-net.com said: >I read what you are saying but why lower quality for a few extra CDr's? Go >with the highest possible, make your own MP3's afterward. I would like >Master CDr's done at the highest possible quality. >From: 'Morgan Feldon' >To: >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:49 AM >Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > > > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do > > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material > > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent >quality > > audio on a single CDR. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31331 [tree] Compression ratios airsculpture Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:00 pm Subject: [tree] Replying to myself! Sorry, I meant that there should be a main Audio CD tree regardless, and then mp3 as a sub-tree. I like Joe's idea. Everyone just list what you want, mp3, SHN, Audio CD, and then if enough people are willing to be mp3 and SHN branches, then presto. -Morgan >I'm agreeing with you! > >It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to >be useful. > >-Morgan From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Not doing complete concerts... At 01:49 PM 01/14/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing 2 CDRs per >concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, >wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. I used to be of the mind that wasted space was, um, wasted space and tried to find filler to round out the disc, but in the last few years I've changed my mind about this. Mainly because as these discs grow in age or get traded around, it's possible that the filler becomes mis-lableled and suddenly you get questions about what the filler actually is. Just mho, but I would prefer no filler and blank space on the disc, but it isn't a neccessity. Mike From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Good, sensible words Joe. Like you say, the more complicated this thing becomes, the more chance there will be of disagreements and arguments between branches and leaves about audio formats, various brands and running times of CDRs, the fact that certain CD cases open to a greater angle than others, etc, etc. In order for this entire thing to be as big a success as we all hope it will be, and to minimise the number of grey areas within structure of the tree regarding media, we need to make everything crytal clear from the outset, something to which Joe has contributed. - Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Shoults To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > You know, we can get bogged down with all this - and I know it's just talk > and only talk at this point - but the main thing is just to get the damn > disks out. People are not going to want to mess with all this crap and the > more complicated we make it the bloodier it will get. > > The bottom line is that all this detail is between you and your branchline. > If you want SHN format, find a branch that wants to distribute in that > format. I will be charting out the branches, and I have no problem making > one or two legs of the branch as shn or whatever, but i'm not going to make > a branch for every Tom, Dick and Harry format out there. > > We will keep it simple: make the whole damn thing audio CDs (redbook) and > piggyback an mp3 set on top of that, for those that want it (I do). > > If you want to mess with the SHN format, let me know via e-mail and I will > add that to your notes field in the participant's table at > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Thank, > Joe > > P.A. and this is a reminder: If you have a beef with someone else on the > list, you take it up with them personally, offlist. Do not use this mailing > list as a way to bait them into guilty action or reconciliation; i.e., for a > past trade gone awry. This list is not your conflict resolution resource. > Thank you. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:50 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > > > > > > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious > > reworking to do > > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth > > of material > > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of > > excellent quality > > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is > > enough to justify > > a subtree. > > > > -Morgan > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31333 What is B&P? Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'Matthew Stringer' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:26 pm Subject: Tape trees Is it just me or are Tape Trees too much hassle? I work long hours and rarely get a lunch so queuing in those pre-historic things we Brits call Post Offices just to post some blank CDR's which have almost zero monetary value is impractical. Considering that the quality of these recordings are not as good as an original album you are not going to affect the quality by converting them to MP3 or WMA and store them on an FTP server. I know that the cost of hosted space can be expensive but we don't need to have everything hosted on one server we could simply have a portal site linking to tracks hosted on servers around the world. I am also sure that there are plenty of TD fans out there with access to FTP space. Sorry if there are people who like the tape tree format, I personally think it's a little dated and think we should try something a bit more modern. I also have a 30 Gigs worth of space which you could squeeze about 500 hours of music on, I can't be the only one to have this. What do you think? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31332 Re: Tape trees Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31334 Re: Tape trees Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: kassel24@h... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:28 pm Subject: DIGITAL TREE and ARTWORK Co-Odinator. First and foremost the Digital Tape Tree is a excellent Idea..... The Problem with all of this ....its getting out of hand... too many inputs and its bogging the list down. What we need is decisive decisions and ONE co-ordinator that everyone will abide by. As the IDEA for the DIGITAL TAPE TREE ORIGINATED with Heiko Heersson he should have the Final say. Let him designate the Artwork person, and the MP3 person etc..... I am sure he will make the right choice !? Q. What do you think Morgan ? Ray From: 'airsculpture' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:38 pm Subject: [tree] Compression ratios --- In tadream@y..., Morgan Feldon wrote: > SHN doesn't save enough to be useful. If it /can/ do 60%, 120 mins * 0.6 is 72 minutes. Sounds very useful, enough to fit any concert (apart from the last SBE?) onto a single CDR with no breaks [data discs will be a bit shorter, but then most concerts are quite a bit short of 120mins too]. Still, if the concensus is lossless is too much effort, I'm not going to lose sleep over using audio CDs. jc From: Rolf Elfström Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape trees >I work long hours and rarely get a lunch so queuing in those >pre-historic things we Brits call Post Offices just to post some blank >CDR's which have almost zero monetary value is impractical. > >I know that the cost of hosted space can be expensive but we don't need >to have everything hosted on one server we could simply have a portal >site linking to tracks hosted on servers around the world. > >I also have a 30 Gigs worth of space which you could squeeze about 500 >hours of music on, I can't be the only one to have this. > >What do you think? I second that, since for me (being in a wheelchair) it's a big project even getting to the postoffice, and just the postage for sending the blanks is a major cut in my limited financing. However, I have cable- access to the net 24 hour a day for free so if this is at all possible I'm a happy guy. Matthew, please, if you would put my email in your address book and let me know if this ever happens I would be forever grateful. I'm just sorry I can't provide any ftp-space myself. Rolf From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:46 pm Subject: What is B&P? Someone on another list just posted this link to an excellent site about this. Although this is pointed towards Grateful Dead trees, I think the info is really good and presents the subject very well for anyone new to this or wondering some 'ground rules'. Note: I couldn't get this page to open properly using Netscape, but it might just be me. Worked fine with IE. http://www.mcnichol.com/bnp/ Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape trees At 08:26 PM 01/14/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Is it just me or are Tape Trees too much hassle? Matthew, I hear you. Unfortunately, many probably do not have access to high speed connections and FTPing would prevent them from having access to the tree--and can we please call this a CDR tree?? Ain't no tape involved in the end and seems to cause some confusion re: the international members of this list. I just want us all to be talking off the same page on this. Ray--I think we are getting things sussed and while there is a lot of traffic right now about the nuances, it seems we are mostly in agreement about what we are shooting for. It seems that some here are knew to this whole concept (forgive me if I am wrong) but I have done a lot of trading via this mode and once it is all set up, I think you'll find things will run smoothly and anyone who participates will become the recipient of some magical music. After all, that is what this is all about, is it not? I realize I have been a major contributor to 'outside' sources about this subject, but believe me folks, these people have been doing this for a long time and have it down to a fine art. Why not adapt some of what they use as they have 'been there, done that' and have worked most of the kinks out of the process? No need to reinvent the wheel. One final thought: If done in smaller segments, one could opt out of a certain part of things if they didn't want to participate/have no time/etc. Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True At 08:17 PM 01/11/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Really, if I were a potential branch and found out that I can't at least >recoup my costs (the tree mantras all say 'not for profit, but costs are >covered'), then I'll just get these CDRs from Hieko or Duncan directly. Let me see if I can clarify things some here--at least how I've done things before. Each Branch will have, say, five leaves. Any more and it gets dicey and causes problems, and I don't think we'll have any trouble with not having enough people who can branch. The leaves of each branch contact the branch and set up a one-for one trade--OR--set up B&P. This is Blanks and Return postage. The person doing the B&P sends the appropriate amount of blanks, a return mailer with postage (NOT metered!!!!--stamps or $$ ONLY!). The branch only has to copy the discs, put them in the mailer and send them back. Yes, the branch is out the time it takes to burn, but I'd imagine most will find something to trade for and part of the spirit of this is to spread the music around. If someone doesn't have the capacity to burn, they probably will in the future and will be more inclined to help someone else who is burnerless. As I suggested before, if we can find web space to put up the artwork, then each will be responsible for getting their own art printed, thus solving the problem of printing up artwork too (although I've done it many times). Just my two cents but hope that helps. Mike From: Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Subjectivity (was Don't Write a Book in the Subject Line) >From: scfeldman@j... >>NP: Jonn Serrie - Planetary Chronicles, Volume 1 > > Hey, well at least we agree on the above being a >great album. :) I saw Serrie playing Christmas songs in a local mall last month. -jim From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:32 am Subject: Tree - entire recordings I have to agree with most of what you said Morgan, with the exception of perhaps your last statement. You are perfectly correct in that most of TD's concerts from, say, 1974 to 1980 were around the 90 minute mark maybe 10-15 minutes more, depending on the mood they were in on the night and what time the bar closed. As you will be aware, as they moved through the 80s, they tended to edge towards the 2 hour mark (a 90 minute set and a few encores was typical of the 81, 82, 86 and 90 UK tours, and the 86, 88 and 92 US tours). Ninety minute cassette tapes were ideal for recording and storing these mid 70s shows, but in terms of transfering them to the 74 (or 80 of course) minute CDR, you are faced with a problem. I think it's safe to say that these shows were originally recorded on cassette at the venue (someone please educate me if this is incorrect in any way), and so, unless TD were accommodating enough to provide a gap in their set as you were coming to the end of side A of your cassette, a gap will already exist in the original recording as the cassette was physically turned over. In my mind, I think it's paramount that in those instances where a whole concert is held on tape, that it shoud be transferred onto 2 CDRs in order to preserve the show in its entirety. Due to the largely improvised nature of the music, the TD shows from the mid 70s were like a story in musical terms, and to have it interrupted ruins the impetus of the recording. I believe that removing 20-30 minutes from an archive recording of a show simply because there isn't enough room to fit it onto a single CDR is unforgivable and should be avoided at all costs. In my opinion, if it takes 2 CDRs to archive a whole show, then 2 CDRs it should be. Even if Disc One contains 60 minutes, and Disc Two 35 minutes, the wasted space on each disc is fine with me, as long as the whole show is present, however imbalanced the running times of the discs. On a related topic, with the advent of software like Wavelab for home PCs, I pray that every effort will be made to provide the continuity in the music which I mentioned before. For example - if an archive tape contains a 25 minute live track, 15 minutes of which is unfortunately on one side of the tape, and 10 minuted on the other, can I propose that the end of one be digitally mixed/faded into the start of the other, with the entire 25 minute track thus being preserved in its entirety on CDR with the rest of the show? I had this obstacle to climb when I was transferring a recording of Lonodon1981 from tape to CDR last year. Mojave Plan was cut in two. Aftering carefully mixing the two halves with the aforementioned Wavelab 3.0, I played the finished piece to a TD die-hard. I told him there had been a gap somewhere in the track, yet he couldn't spot where. It's such a simple process, it would be a crime not to utilise modern software in this manner if it means improving the presentation of the music. What I'm saying is that, not only is this a great opportunity for us to digitally archive all this wonderful, unreleased TD live material we all love, but also a perfect chance for us to repair any 'broken' recordings. TD's live music of the 70s and 80s (particularly the 70s) builds such a momentum over an extended period of time, and when it's interrupted the momentum is often undeniably lost, spoiling your listening pleasure. To this end, I am perfectly willing to offer up my own services if the workload should become too much for those, like Heiko, who are already so busy with this exciting project. - Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Morgan Feldon To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Not doing complete concerts... > Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing 2 CDRs per > concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, > wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. > > -Morgan > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31361 Tree - entire recordings Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:44 pm Subject: Some clarifications about this tree. Now that enough details have solidified, we can make the following clarifications about this tree. These are pretty much set in stone and will hopefully answer a lot of 'burning' questions ;-) CONTENT: These will be complete concerts, not compilations or with parts edited out/added in. They will be 'clean' concert material - there will not be 'filler' on these disks, and this will avoid future confusion. FORMAT: They will be in Redbook CD audio format. any other formats, you're on your own. We can prearrange the branches for downlines that are shn or mp3-friendly. OPT-IN DEADLINE: January 31. FIRST DISTRIBUTION TARGET DATE FROM HEIKO: first week in February CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS: this is between you and your branchline, but we will have a complete list of recommended (not mandated) media types/brands. QUANTITY: There will be an initial run of approx. 20 for the first batch. They will all be sent at once, not in small disbursements. TREE STRUCTURE: narrow, meaning as few burns per person as possible. this will facilitate fast distribution. PARTICIPATION LIST: maintained at http://www.tadream.net/tree. After Jan 31, we will post a tree structure. We will also use this page to keep track of who all has received their disks. This will be all in the open, so that if a branch is having any difficulty, it can be addressed. (any difficulties should be minimized with the narrow structure) ARTWORK: This is an issue completely separate from the CDs. There may be multiple versions, but all will be available for download. Hell, you can even e-mail the URL to Kinkos and they will color print it for you and have it waiting for you to pick up. Unless you live in a 3rd world country, this will not be an issue for you. --------------------------------------- Notice that the question of mp3, shn or artwork are to be purposefully and deliberately regarded as separate, secondary issues. Trying to worry about these issues as 'attachments' to the audio CD process is only going to slow it down. What's important is the audio CDs, then the rest can follow. Thanks to all for the enthusiastic response! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31342 Re: [Tree] Some clarifications about this tree. Deb H-J Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'Alexander Bjelke' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:25 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] Name and artwork Another suggestion: TraumKlang From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:51 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Fox [mailto:mfox@i...] > blanks, a return mailer with postage (NOT metered!!!!--stamps > or $$ ONLY!). thanks for all the references, Michael. I've added them to the tree info page. why no metered postage? I take my packages to the post office, where they weigh each of them and slap a metered sticky thingy on them, and I just pay once. what's wrong with that? maybe there's something I'm not aware of. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31369 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Some clarifications about this tree. Good work Joe ! Sounds like a excellent start. I even think that the leaves should be able to do their own covers. I see no reason other than needing a Ink Jet to make them. If not I am sure the branches can do. This is turning out to be a great year so far. I was greatly disappointed with the cancel of the TD Concert in the States. At least now I will have something I never heard before to play. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: [tadream] Some clarifications about this tree. > Now that enough details have solidified, we can make the following > clarifications about this tree. These are pretty much set in stone and will > hopefully answer a lot of 'burning' questions ;-) > > CONTENT: > These will be complete concerts, not compilations or with parts edited > out/added in. They will be 'clean' concert material - there will not be > 'filler' on these disks, and this will avoid future confusion. > > FORMAT: > They will be in Redbook CD audio format. any other formats, you're on your > own. We can prearrange the branches for downlines that are shn or > mp3-friendly. > > OPT-IN DEADLINE: > January 31. > > FIRST DISTRIBUTION TARGET DATE FROM HEIKO: > first week in February > > CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS: > this is between you and your branchline, but we will have a complete list of > recommended (not mandated) media types/brands. > > QUANTITY: > There will be an initial run of approx. 20 for the first batch. They will > all be sent at once, not in small disbursements. > > TREE STRUCTURE: > narrow, meaning as few burns per person as possible. this will facilitate > fast distribution. > > PARTICIPATION LIST: > maintained at http://www.tadream.net/tree. After Jan 31, we will post a > tree structure. We will also use this page to keep track of who all has > received their disks. This will be all in the open, so that if a branch is > having any difficulty, it can be addressed. (any difficulties should be > minimized with the narrow structure) > > ARTWORK: > This is an issue completely separate from the CDs. There may be multiple > versions, but all will be available for download. Hell, you can even e-mail > the URL to Kinkos and they will color print it for you and have it waiting > for you to pick up. Unless you live in a 3rd world country, this will not > be an issue for you. > > --------------------------------------- > Notice that the question of mp3, shn or artwork are to be purposefully and > deliberately regarded as separate, secondary issues. Trying to worry about > these issues as 'attachments' to the audio CD process is only going to slow > it down. What's important is the audio CDs, then the rest can follow. > > Thanks to all for the enthusiastic response! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Deb H-J Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Some clarifications about this tree. Joe: Several e-mail transmittals from my yahoo account have been eaten by the internet void, so I'm assuming you haven't gotten this information yet. I live in East Tennessee, roughly 200 miles north of Atlanta, and I am interested in becoming a branch. I have a pretty good CD-burner and can support about five leaves. Adios, Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: tadream@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:15 pm Subject: New poll for tadream Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the tadream group: Enter your vote for the 'name' of this first tree effort of 2002. We have gathered these suggestions from your posts on the list. All further details of this tree are here< /a>. o Diamond Dreams o The Road Less Travelled o Rare Visions o (The) Tangerine Tree o A Tree of Dreams o Marmalade skies o A dream come true o Sharing the Dream o Seeding the Dream o Tangerine Dream Seeds o Mysterious Strands of Dreams o One World Dream o World of Dreams o Dreams of the World o World Dreaming o Earth Dreams o Age of Dreams o Epoch of Dreams o Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies o tangerine traum o TraumEpoche o TraumKatalysator o Epoche von Träumen o mandarine baum o Traumstücke To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:35 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork Fabulous! Paul ---------- >De : 'Matthew Sawyer' >À : >Objet : Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork >Date : Dim 13 jan 2002 22:22 > > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > > Maff From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream what is the login for this? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:15 PM Subject: [tadream] New poll for tadream > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > tadream group: > > Enter your vote for the 'name' of > this > first tree effort of 2002. We have > gathered these suggestions from your > posts on the list. All further details > of this tree are href='http://www.tadream.net/tree'>here< > /a>. > > o Diamond Dreams > o The Road Less Travelled > o Rare Visions > o (The) Tangerine Tree > o A Tree of Dreams > o Marmalade skies > o A dream come true > o Sharing the Dream > o Seeding the Dream > o Tangerine Dream Seeds > o Mysterious Strands of Dreams > o One World Dream > o World of Dreams > o Dreams of the World > o World Dreaming > o Earth Dreams > o Age of Dreams > o Epoch of Dreams > o Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies > o tangerine traum > o TraumEpoche > o TraumKatalysator > o Epoche von Träumen > o mandarine baum > o Traumstücke > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: atye@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream use your personal Yahoo ID to login ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:59 pm Subject: [tree] FTP instead of tree? >Matthew Stringer said: >Is it just me or are Tape Trees too much hassle? > >I work long hours and rarely get a lunch so queuing in those >pre-historic things we Brits call Post Offices just to post some blank >CDR's which have almost zero monetary value is impractical. I'm not sure about Europe, but in the USA, it is entirely possible to mail blank CDs without leaving your house. That said, I still believe that the media or what is necessary to trade should be decided by the branches, under guidance from Hieko. In my opinion, trades to get copies of the Tape Tree must NOT require music in return and must NOT require more than $2 per CD. If you would rather deal with the tree from home, ask whichever branch you get assigned to if you can just mail them a few bucks. Everybody's happy (cept Edgar) and you just wait a few weeks and get your CDs in return. >Considering that the quality of these recordings are not as good as an >original album you are not going to affect the quality by converting >them to MP3 or WMA and store them on an FTP server. > >I know that the cost of hosted space can be expensive but we don't need >to have everything hosted on one server we could simply have a portal >site linking to tracks hosted on servers around the world. Those of us who are happy with mp3 and have the necessary bandwidth already operate FTP sites. I won't name any names but there has been at least one FTP operating continuously with this type of music for the past 2 1/2 years. I still say bring on the tree! If someone has an FTP, e-mail Matt about it, he's really interested! :) >I am also sure that there are plenty of TD fans out there with access to >FTP space. In this case, I want the integrity of the recordings, the CDs, and the artwork. As much of an mp3 guy as I am (my entire collection is in mp3 form), I am really excited to get this in Audio CD form and have it on my shelf. That's why I am voting for the name 'A Dream Come True.' >Sorry if there are people who like the tape tree format, I personally >think it's a little dated and think we should try something a bit more >modern. Again, let's not try to sabotage the digital tree please! If you want to offer up an FTP, go for it, but it should operate independantly of the digital tree. You want to offer up an FTP? Great! Sign up as a leaf of the digital tree and then put the files up. That's what others of us have done. -Morgan P.S. I don't currently operate a site, so please don't e-mail me re: access. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31350 Re: [tree] FTP instead of tree? Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:06 am Subject: [tree] Too many inputs? >Ray said: >First and foremost the Digital Tape Tree is a excellent Idea..... >The Problem with all of this ....its getting out of hand... too many inputs >and its bogging the list down. >What we need is decisive decisions and ONE co-ordinator that everyone will >abide by. Hieko asked for input. >As the IDEA for the DIGITAL TAPE TREE ORIGINATED with Heiko Heersson he >should have the Final say. And he does. All the opinions being expressed by myself and others are, no doubt, being looked at by Hieko and Joe and evaluated. Hieko might decide to ignore all of it and do something else. >Let him designate the Artwork person, and the MP3 person etc..... I am sure >he will make the right choice !? Hieko wants to hear these inputs I think, so he has some idea of what will 'fly' on the TD list. If Hieko came in and started telling us exactly how it will be done and what to do without offering any chance for us to provide input, we'd have an equal number of people screaming that he's got a big ego, etc. I think Hieko is making the right choice by opening the floor to opinions while he has the discs prepared and I'm sure he will take from it what he thinks is right. In a way, it's a popularity contest, as Hieko will see from both private e-mails and postings here and find a consensus. And I agree with Joe. If people want to set up a fringe operation with special media (DVD-R, etc.), that's fine, but it should not affect the tree. >Q. What do you think Morgan ? I think I was going to submit some artwork but Maff's artwork blew me away. :) -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31351 [tree] artwork... Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:16 am Subject: [tree] Concert Sets >Chris Owen worried: >so, unless TD were accommodating enough to provide a gap in their >set as you were coming to the end of side A of your cassette, a gap will >already exist in the original recording as the cassette was physically >turned over. In my mind, I think it's paramount that in those instances >where a whole concert is held on tape, that it shoud be transferred onto 2 >CDRs in order to preserve the show in its entirety. Due to the largely >improvised nature of the music, the TD shows from the mid 70s were like a >story in musical terms, and to have it interrupted ruins the impetus of the >recording. I believe that removing 20-30 minutes from an archive recording >of a show simply because there isn't enough room to fit it onto a single CDR >is unforgivable and should be avoided at all costs. In my opinion, if it >takes 2 CDRs to archive a whole show, then 2 CDRs it should be. Even if Disc >One contains 60 minutes, and Disc Two 35 minutes, the wasted space on each >disc is fine with me, as long as the whole show is present, however >imbalanced the running times of the discs. All concerts in 1976 and 1977 had at least 2 sets of no longer than 45 minutes each. Yes, there are some concerts with breaks in them due to running out of tape, but the bootleggers learned fast when to switch tapes/sides and how long TD would play each bit. TD rarely plays more than 50 minutes in a row. I'm not advocating that anything be deleted, only the possibility that 3 concerts could be put on 3 CDRs instead of 6. For example, for my own use, I repackaged the 2CD version of Poland onto a single 80 minute CDR. It's not missing any music, just the introduction and some applause has been cut off/faded. (And maybe Poland is a bad example since the actual concert was ~90 minutes long and the music was reperformed in 1984 with less repetition and omitting 2 encores and part of Hyperborea to fit on four 22 minute LP sides). -Morgan From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:50 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] FTP instead of tree? Since I am in the ISP business, I have a few static IP address that I could use. It would be very easy for me to set up a system, 20 gig or so to store, turn FTP on, and allow a full download via login/pw. I don't think this was ever a issue among the list here. Just the fact that those files would be rather large. My concern is being labeled a pirate due to the music not being sanction and controlling just who is doing the download. Even with a log, it is after the fact. The tree for private use is one thing, having a FTP running is another issue. For those who do contact me and request, I might do this on a case by case basis. I am sure folks here on the list and understand where I am coming from on this. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:56 am Subject: Re:[tree] artwork... I'm still thinking how I could at least come close the high standard he has set! :) >I think I was going to submit some artwork but Maff's artwork blew me away. :) >-Morgan Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream I don't have a clue what I used when I signed up. So I just made up another one. Joe pull sales@k... off the mailing for the group list but leave it joined so I can use it to vote with. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream > use your personal Yahoo ID to login > > ATYE > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:57 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts >From: Mark Filipak >1 - What is one person's good parts is entirely a matter of PERSONAL >opinion. Yes, and I'm sorry I didn't put an IMO every two lines; can't take anything for granted on this list! >2 - If you want to cut out the boring parts, feel free to take your CDR, >and burn a 'best of' version. Not an option for me. I'm not that knowledgable on the mechanics of burning. But never mind. As pointed out there are already several comps out there. >3 - Don't presume to make decisions for anyone but you. WOW! Don't get so bent. I made no such claim. > >Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) Actually, I don't really feel as I did anymore. Must have been an off night. You all have convinced me that what I really DO want is the full concert, warts and all. Count me in. 8-) Dell As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:53 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1188 Okay...out of lurk...into rant (gotta love how things have perked up around here!) :-) > Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing > 2 CDRs per > concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, > wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. > > -Morgan Which would be the perfect scenario to do SHN...100 minutes easily fits on one CD... > It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to > be useful. > > -Morgan > Except for in the instance of your previous objection to using 2 CDs per show...hmmmm. Actually, I see it as in any trading environment, you have several schools of thought at work here. There are the 'possessors' that just want the music in any form, so they can listen to it. Doesn't matter if it is a lossy compression...just gotta have it. Their primary purpose is for their own listening pleasure...no problem with that. But, if they decide they want to trade an MP3 sourced CD-audio copy to a friend that then decides to convert to MP3, who then posts it on the web, where someone else downloads it and converts it to .wavs, burns a CD then starts trading that around...well, I think even the proponents of MP3 see problems with this. Talk about f***ing up the genepool! Then there are the 'archivists' that feel they want to not only possess the music but preserve it. They see no need to further degrade what is generally a 'non-perfect' audience recording by compressing using a lossy algorithm. Once you throw it away, it ain't coming back. Shorten files preserve the .wav in 'lossless' format with the ability to create a bit-perfect clone much more safely than extracting from a CD audio...with a reduction in file size by 40-50%. The point is lost that you don't necessarily SHN an audio file to 'compress' it to the point that you can carry it in your front pocket like a BIC lighter with 'acceptable' sound on playback. SHN is more for the radical notion that when you distribute a show of rare material, you would prefer to distribute the show with the least amount of degradation from point A to point B. MP3 is totally foreign to this way of thinking, and as a way of preserving music should be disregarded immediately. Fine for listening...not archiving. Redbook audio is almost foreign to this way of thinking also, as so many errors can be so easily introduced in the 'rip->burn' process...however, at least it *can* be done correctly, if folks know what they are doing. But honestly, if you end up down some winding branch and expect to have an exact bit for bit copy of the original file as transferred from analog, chances are slim that you will be satisfied...except in ignorance. It may sound the same, but it probably ain't. There are a few programs such as EAC which can help, but then you still have the whole issue of drive offsets and such, which if not configured properly for 'your' branches drives, then you will not get an exact digital clone. All the way down the line you will have chances for introducing errors which may or may not effect the 'perceived' sound of the CD's. It is just a fact of life... The ONLY way you can 'guarantee' exact digital 'bit-for-bit' clones is to distribute the files as either uncompressed .wav files (not CD Audio) or as compressed SHN files. (Compression here is analogous to 'zipping' a file, not throwing bits away to make it smaller). Anyway, to each his own, but if you really want to 'preserve' the shows, SHN makes a whole lot of sense...however, if it scares you stick with the audio or MP3. There are a ton of arguments either way, and I really don't want to get into a flame war, because you can say such things as: 1) They are 'remastered' anyway, so they have already been altered...who cares? 2) The mics were hypercards which distorted the higher frequencies off boresight, so the recording is not a representation of the actual sound anyway... 3) If everyone takes care and uses proper software down the line there will be no problems...(RIGHT! but big 'IF'). On and on and on...all I am saying that if you wanna stay with the original 'intended' sound, SHN is the only way to be certain...plus you get the entire show on one CD. May not be the most desirable, but certainly the truth. As for a SHN branch, Joe, I would be glad to run a SHN line if there is enough interest...assuming I get masters from Heiko or whoever masters them. I don't wanna run a SHN branch if I am way down the line...at that point why bother? Craig C. (the other one...) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31355 Re: Digest Number 1188 KMJ Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31357 Re: Digest Number 1188 Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 7 KB 31362 To WAV or... mars103nl Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31370 Re: To WAV or... Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: KMJ Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:02 am Subject: Re: Digest Number 1188 >As for a SHN branch, Joe, I would be glad to run a SHN line if there is >enough interest...assuming I get masters from Heiko or whoever masters them. >I don't wanna run a SHN branch if I am way down the line...at that point why >bother? Hey Craig, I'm definitely interested in a SHN branch!!! I'm a strong believer of the SHN format since it involves no audio extraction which more times than not is what introduces artifacts into the copies. Count me in!!! Kevin From: scfeldman@j... Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:57:23 -0500 'Adele Outland' writes: >>From: Mark Filipak >>Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) > >Actually, I don't really feel as I did anymore. Must have been >an off night. You all have convinced me that what I really DO >want is the full concert, warts and all. Count me in. 8-) Dell I thought about it some more and agree with Mark and Adele, now. Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:19 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1188 Craig, you definitely belong as a trunk on this tree, so that you can start the shn-friendly branch. Either it will be a dual branch, or if there are enough people who want shn format only, we'll organize that, too. no problem. Joe -----Original Message----- From: C. Chambers To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Sent: 1/14/02 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1188 Okay...out of lurk...into rant (gotta love how things have perked up around here!) :-) > Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing > 2 CDRs per > concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, > wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. > > -Morgan Which would be the perfect scenario to do SHN...100 minutes easily fits on one CD... > It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to > be useful. > > -Morgan > Except for in the instance of your previous objection to using 2 CDs per show...hmmmm. Actually, I see it as in any trading environment, you have several schools of thought at work here. There are the 'possessors' that just want the music in any form, so they can listen to it. Doesn't matter if it is a lossy compression...just gotta have it. Their primary purpose is for their own listening pleasure...no problem with that. But, if they decide they want to trade an MP3 sourced CD-audio copy to a friend that then decides to convert to MP3, who then posts it on the web, where someone else downloads it and converts it to .wavs, burns a CD then starts trading that around...well, I think even the proponents of MP3 see problems with this. Talk about f***ing up the genepool! Then there are the 'archivists' that feel they want to not only possess the music but preserve it. They see no need to further degrade what is generally a 'non-perfect' audience recording by compressing using a lossy algorithm. Once you throw it away, it ain't coming back. Shorten files preserve the .wav in 'lossless' format with the ability to create a bit-perfect clone much more safely than extracting from a CD audio...with a reduction in file size by 40-50%. The point is lost that you don't necessarily SHN an audio file to 'compress' it to the point that you can carry it in your front pocket like a BIC lighter with 'acceptable' sound on playback. SHN is more for the radical notion that when you distribute a show of rare material, you would prefer to distribute the show with the least amount of degradation from point A to point B. MP3 is totally foreign to this way of thinking, and as a way of preserving music should be disregarded immediately. Fine for listening...not archiving. Redbook audio is almost foreign to this way of thinking also, as so many errors can be so easily introduced in the 'rip->burn' process...however, at least it *can* be done correctly, if folks know what they are doing. But honestly, if you end up down some winding branch and expect to have an exact bit for bit copy of the original file as transferred from analog, chances are slim that you will be satisfied...except in ignorance. It may sound the same, but it probably ain't. There are a few programs such as EAC which can help, but then you still have the whole issue of drive offsets and such, which if not configured properly for 'your' branches drives, then you will not get an exact digital clone. All the way down the line you will have chances for introducing errors which may or may not effect the 'perceived' sound of the CD's. It is just a fact of life... The ONLY way you can 'guarantee' exact digital 'bit-for-bit' clones is to distribute the files as either uncompressed .wav files (not CD Audio) or as compressed SHN files. (Compression here is analogous to 'zipping' a file, not throwing bits away to make it smaller). Anyway, to each his own, but if you really want to 'preserve' the shows, SHN makes a whole lot of sense...however, if it scares you stick with the audio or MP3. There are a ton of arguments either way, and I really don't want to get into a flame war, because you can say such things as: 1) They are 'remastered' anyway, so they have already been altered...who cares? 2) The mics were hypercards which distorted the higher frequencies off boresight, so the recording is not a representation of the actual sound anyway... 3) If everyone takes care and uses proper software down the line there will be no problems...(RIGHT! but big 'IF'). On and on and on...all I am saying that if you wanna stay with the original 'intended' sound, SHN is the only way to be certain...plus you get the entire show on one CD. May not be the most desirable, but certainly the truth. As for a SHN branch, Joe, I would be glad to run a SHN line if there is enough interest...assuming I get masters from Heiko or whoever masters them. I don't wanna run a SHN branch if I am way down the line...at that point why bother? Craig C. (the other one...) ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True Matthew Sawyer wrote: > -snip- > > I have a nice EF/CF/PB photo which I'd like to add to the cover spine, so > once all the CD's are arranged on the shelf the photo appears. Wow! I think this is a brilliant idea, Maff. -- Mark From: 'rtol008' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:10 am Subject: [tree] Once more Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! My final words about this. > Message: 12 > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:49:35 -0600 > From: Morgan Feldon > Subject: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. This value 60% what I gave is only an approximate value. But I guess/think the size wont get under 50%. > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. Actually this is not absolutely true. How many full 74 min CD:s do you have. I think there is a lot of stuff that has length of e.g. 84 min, 90 min or so (that's what I have) and they have to be split into two CDRs. OK, anyway if you want to have them in audio format there will be two CDs. But all material that is around 120 min or less can fit into one CDR if they are compressed into shn. The meaning is not to save so many CD discs but to give as good quality after several copies as possible. > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent quality > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is enough to justify > a subtree. The reason why I brouht up SHN is that it is LOSSLESS, mp3 is lossy and even audio copies are lossy after several generation copies. So if there is something to mess around with, it is definitely mp3, not shn. Then let's keep it as audio, if people are not ready to enter to the world of shn :) > -Morgan regard, timo From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:24 am Subject: [tree] Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN I think this discussion has opened my eyes. And I think this is exactly the kind of discussion Heiko has allowed. media listening distribution ------- --------- ------------ MP3 okay poor (lossy) redbook best fair (errors) WAV computer! best SHN computer! best Proposal: - Distribute within tree using WAV or SHN (lossless & error-free!) - Production to leaves: redbook audio (play anywhere!) Anyone who can burn can also convert wav to redbook -- it's built into every burner program I know of, but be sure to use DAO. WAV or SHN distribution also provides the future possiblity of adding additional indexes using a wav editor. If I only have redbook, I must rip, then index, then burn. Ripping may introduce errors in the content due to bit errors and jitter. Please comment. -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31363 Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:38 am Subject: Tree - entire recordings Chris Owen wrote: > > minute live track, 15 minutes of which is unfortunately on one side of the > tape, and 10 minuted on the other, can I propose that the end of one be > digitally mixed/faded into the start of the other, with the entire 25 minute > track thus being preserved in its entirety on CDR with the rest of the show? > I had this obstacle to climb when I was transferring a recording of > Lonodon1981 from tape to CDR last year. Mojave Plan was cut in two. Aftering > carefully mixing the two halves with the aforementioned Wavelab 3.0, I > played the finished piece to a TD die-hard. I told him there had been a gap > somewhere in the track, yet he couldn't spot where. It's such a simple > process, it would be a crime not to utilise modern software in this manner > if it means improving the presentation of the music. I have done this also. With a WAV editor it is not hard to do, especially if there is a beat in the music (which shows up as regular peaks). The splice was undetectable. May I also point out that in some cases, there exist two recordings of the same concert. Careful WAV editing using both recordings can reconstruct/preserve the entire performance without any crossfades. Also, mixing the two recording, though extremely difficult (gaining sychronization and sampling out tape speed variations -- easier if you initially sample at 96 KHz and then subsample down to 44.1 KHz) is possible and will greatly reduce audience noise. > - Chris Thanks Chris for taking the time to present your thoughts so completely and clearly. Ciao -- Mark From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:55 am Subject: To WAV or... --- In tadream@y..., 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > The ONLY way you can 'guarantee' exact digital 'bit-for-bit' clones is to > distribute the files as either uncompressed .wav files (not CD Audio) or as > compressed SHN files. (Compression here is analogous to 'zipping' a file, > not throwing bits away to make it smaller). Anyway, to each his own, but if > you really want to 'preserve' the shows, SHN makes a whole lot of > sense...however, if it scares you stick with the audio or MP3. Ahh, finally someone reacted to the errors etc thing... (okay John reacted also). Most of you are concerned about which CDR brand to take while I personally never had any problem with any of them, although my feeling says it's better to stick some kind of known brand. So, when you guys are burning audio (redbook)...at what speed do you record it? This is for me a far more interesting thing then the brand. If you want the best quality you HAVE to burn at 1x speed. Or is that standard with anyone already and am I talking bollocks here. :-) I think I'm interested in this SHN thing, although I've never heard of it...I'll check it out. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31370 Re: To WAV or... Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:59 pm Subject: Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN Although I know that WAV or SHN (never had heard of that before this) would be the best way to distribute without losing anything, it would be too troublesome for me to burn some 50 CDRs, and then have 100 CDs, 50 in wav and 50 in cdr. It would be a lot of work for me, and I would also have to spend more money in CDRs. I would have to pay around 2-3 original imported CDs worth in CDRs, and that's A Lot Of Money. Thát's why I prefer audio anyway, in this tree. For me, the only data format good enough to be used would be 256 kbps MP3s. I can't hear any difference between an original and this format, and 5-6 CDs fit in a CDR in this format. I use mostly that for storage, L.A.M.E. encoded (which was recommended as one of the best encoders for high bitrates). Still, I'd have to decode and burn the CDRs at home if I got MP3 CDs, so I'd rather get audio CDs. > I think this discussion has opened my eyes. And I think this is exactly the kind of discussion Heiko has allowed. > > media listening distribution > ------- --------- ------------ > MP3 okay poor (lossy) > redbook best fair (errors) > WAV computer! best > SHN computer! best From: TheInfection Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:11 am Subject: Re: Name of the tree I would like a simple name... like Tangerine Tree for example. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN It will cost you no more, Gustavo -- read below... Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > Although I know that WAV or SHN (never had heard of that before this) would > be the best way to distribute without losing anything, it would be too > troublesome for me to burn some 50 CDRs, and then have 100 CDs, 50 in wav > and 50 in cdr. If your 'client' is a leaf, then burn red book. If your 'client' is a lower branch, then burn WAV. You only have to make 1 burn in either case. There is no extra work or extra expense. > It would be a lot of work for me, and I would also have to > spend more money in CDRs. I would have to pay around 2-3 original imported > CDs worth in CDRs, and that's A Lot Of Money. (See argument above.) > Thát's why I prefer audio anyway, in this tree. For me, the only data format > good enough to be used would be 256 kbps MP3s. I can't hear any difference > between an original and this format, and 5-6 CDs fit in a CDR in this > format. Well, I can't hear any difference either, but that's not the point. MP3 is not editable, you cannot index it, and there is an audible 'click' between files. It simply isn't appropriate for archival. Suggestion: If you are a leaf, simply ask your branch to supply you with 256MP3 and leave the rest of us to our WAV or SHN? Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31380 Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: 'Peter Ravn' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:48 pm Subject: Rubycon SACD Hi, There is a posting about the Rubycon SACD here: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/46581.html - have anybody compared it to the CD versions ? Peter Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32228 Rubycon SACD kassel24@h... Sat 2/16/2002 2 KB 32278 Re: Rubycon SACD tei waz Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB 32293 Rubycon SACD kassel24@h... Wed 2/20/2002 3 KB 32382 Rubycon SACD Marcelo Gutierrez Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32384 Re: Rubycon SACD tangram12 Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32412 Re: Rubycon SACD Marcelo Gutierrez Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:41 pm Subject: Re: [tree] more artwork trials hey, all... i've upload some cover (and one back) artwork trials for the tree... they are on http://www.tadream.net under the files link... i created a folder called Tree artwork... in it i've put four different covers and one back... more tradition photo manipulation, but using a common theme for fonts and name structure... i also used a name off the list that i liked, just as an example... i REALLY liked maff's stuff and wanted to participate too... =) j __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: fstephe@a... Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:45 pm Subject: With regards to the trees why not go with weeds Since there seems to be a question as to how to run the trees (guys don't want to send blank discs through the mail, etc.), why don't we just run weeds. Make the first concert available on a certain date. The same people who would start the tree simply make available to two or three individuals the concert (via this list). The first two or three that reply to that person off list get the show. Those people then offer it up and so on. That way, eventually, everybody only gets the shows they want without wasting postage, etc. As far as the question of whether this this should be the whole concert or stuff like that.... Go with the whole concert! Don't add filler material and just leave it at that. So what if there is 14 extra minutes of blank disc? Who cares? CDRs are so cheap compared to tapes that it really isn't necessary to use them all up. Just my 0.02 Frank From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:11 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True At 04:51 PM 01/14/2002 -0500, you wrote: >why no metered postage? I take my packages to the post office, where they >weigh each of them and slap a metered sticky thingy on them, and I just pay >once. what's wrong with that? maybe there's something I'm not aware of. Metered mail going out is fine, Joe. It doesn't work to use metered mail on the return mailer (the one that goes back to the sender) as it's only good on the date on it. If the person sending the blanks uses metered mail on the return mailer, the person burning the copies will have to pay for the shipping back. It's happened to me a few times. No big deal most of the time, but an added annoyance. Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] To WAV or... At 09:55 AM 01/15/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I think I'm interested in this SHN thing, although I've never >heard of it...I'll check it out. Marcel-- Here is a link to the software: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html Mike From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN Here's a novel idea: Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this disc, etc. Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. This ensures that everyone gets a good copy, and if not, they only have to go back as far as their immediate branch to get a replacement. This avoids the possibility of having an error high in a branch somewhere that propagates to 15 or 20 people... Errors would be limited to one level. Lets look at the pros: - Less discs = less money for blanks and postage - errors limited to 1 level only - No time wasted making copies at 1X to ensure quality - Less time spent checking each disc for errors - Less opportunity for missed errors to propagate - Only Branches need to know anything about SHN And the Cons: - branches have to learn SHN - CDAudio conversion software (is this freeware? Where to downlaod?) Assuming the conversion is painless and quick, the Cons are minimal and the pros are impressive! The technology is there to ensure everyone gets the best possible copies with the least amount of money and effort. Lets use it! James Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31375 Re: [tree] SHN Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 5 KB 31377 Re: [tree] SHN Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31379 Re: [tree] SHN mars103nl Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31535 [tree] SHN Morgan Feldon Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31554 Re: [tree] SHN airsculpture Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB 31544 Re: [tree] SHN Matthew Sawyer Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 33209 [tree] SHN Morgan Feldon Thu 4/4/2002 2 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even go further and > name it '...and Marmalade Skies' to leave the inference to Tangerine Tree > more in the open. IMHO 'Marmalade Skies' would be a great name... for a BEATLES tree! Antonio From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies Marmalade Skies is way out in front of the poll with 32% of the vote. I think it is a cool name because it automatically implies the 'tangerine trees' lyric. But 'Tree of Dreams' was a close second for me not only because of the 'Sea of Dreams' refernce, but also because it would be a good name even if someone wasn't familiar with SOD. > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:np97fa@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:45 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies > > > > > 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > > > For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even > go further and > > name it '...and Marmalade Skies' to leave the inference to > Tangerine Tree > > more in the open. > > > IMHO 'Marmalade Skies' would be a great name... for a BEATLES tree! > > Antonio > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:27 pm Subject: RE: SHN Hi James... (I hope you don't mind me posting this to the list since it has some great links in it) SHN is free and fast. It compresses/decompresses 74 min. of audio in just a couple minutes on my PC (450 MHz PII), it really is painless...you install the free program and then just right click on a 'shn' compressed file (or files) to uncompress back to CD Audio. To compress, you right click on the audio file. It is alot faster than going to/from MP3 in my experience. Plus there are not the annoying little gaps between tracks...it really is easy to go work with once you get it figured out. The hardest part is associating '.shn' file types with the program. From there it is painless. Here are some links: There are several programs out there, one of the most used (er, liked) is mkwact, which can be found here: http://etree.org/mkw.html or the official site here: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html Several fantastic sites with FAQs and How-to's abound: http://members.tripod.com/~rimeswel/shnguide.html#whatis_quick and http://alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html are two of my favorites... There is even a version for MACs here: http://www.hornig.net/shorten.html If you wanna buy a copy with documentation, go here: http://www.softsound.com/Shorten.html Anyway, SHN has quickly become the file format of choice for most internet groups that are serious about trading and preserving the music...especially those that have high speed connections. I just downloaded on DSL last night an entire 2 disc Genesis show from '73 in about 1 hour and a half! Granted, it was a freaking smoking ftp server I was accessing (most 2 disc shows take up to 4-5 hours), but it still beats the old snail mail...just log into the server, set up a cue and go to bed. Much as people have been doing for years with MP3 but without the lossy format. As already being shown, DVD recorders are dropping in price and within another year or so, they will be as prevalent as CDRW's are today...then we will be able to fit several 'non-compressed' shows on one DVD...I just don't see why we should throw away the bits at this point, as we are almost there! But these are my opinions and I am a user and somewhat biased :-) Good luck! Craig > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:James.E.Owens@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:35 AM > To: 'craig.chambers@m...' > Subject: RE:SHN > > > Hi Craig, > > I've never used SHN. How much trouble/time does it take > to convert from SHN to CD AUDIO? Is there freeware for this? > > James > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31376 Re: SHN Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31533 SHN Felna Greymane Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31537 Re: SHN C. Chambers Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:44 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN I was going to make some diagrams to show that making a shn-only branch or shn-friendly branch would not be a problem. instead of wasting my time doing that, just take my word for it here: ****** having an shn-only or shn-friendly branch is not a problem at all, and will be accomodated. **** same for mp3, but we'll stop there and not get crazy with more formats. Essentially, we won't know the structure until the deadline, but if you want to be included for shn or mp3, YOU HAVE TO LET ME KNOW and I will update the Tree Participant's Chart accordingly. Here's how it is not complicated: The tree is for redbook format by default. As a branch, you will distribute redbook format to your downline. however, if we can take care of all people, but have some who want to be 'SHN-ONLY', then they will be their own offshoot of the tree. As long as everybody gets the format they desire, I don't see what the big deal is about all this. I'll just have it charted out and color-coded, even. Relax - we'll accomodate the shn and mp3 formats. Don't worry. Joe P.S. Personally, i'm just doing redbook, but considering adding shn for archival reasons. > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:33 AM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN > > > Here's a novel idea: > > Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. > (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be > very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). > > Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio > CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this > disc, etc. > Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. > > This ensures that everyone gets a good copy, and if not, they > only have to go back as far as their immediate branch to get a > replacement. This avoids the possibility of having an error > high in a branch somewhere that propagates to 15 or 20 people... > Errors would be limited to one level. > > Lets look at the pros: > - Less discs = less money for blanks and postage > - errors limited to 1 level only > - No time wasted making copies at 1X to ensure quality > - Less time spent checking each disc for errors > - Less opportunity for missed errors to propagate > - Only Branches need to know anything about SHN > > And the Cons: > - branches have to learn SHN - CDAudio conversion software > (is this freeware? Where to downlaod?) > > Assuming the conversion is painless and quick, the Cons are > minimal and the pros are impressive! > > The technology is there to ensure everyone gets the best > possible copies with the least amount of money and effort. > Lets use it! > > James > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:47 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: SHN > -----Original Message----- > years with MP3 but without the lossy format. As already > being shown, DVD > recorders are dropping in price and within another year or > so, they will be > as prevalent as CDRW's are today...then we will be able to fit several > 'non-compressed' shows on one DVD...I just don't see why we > should throw > away the bits at this point, as we are almost there! excellent points, Craig. you have me convinced that I'm going to do shn in addition to my redbook participation! From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:32 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN At 10:33 AM 01/15/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. >(I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be >very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). Here is a link to a shn FAQ. I'm new to shn files too as most of the time I've come across them before, they were for downloads, not for mailing. Hope this helps us all understand this better! http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html Mike From: 'coldwatercanyon' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:40 pm Subject: Wanted: Rockoon CD on Volt Records (light blue cover) Hi Anybody has this CD available for sale or swap? Jeffrey From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [tree] SHN --- In tadream@y..., 'Owens, James' wrote: > > Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. > (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be > very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). > > Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio > CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this > disc, etc. > Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. I think this is an excellent idea. The software is free for most platforms, Windows, Mac and Unix/Linux. Count me in as a SHN branch or leave. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:43 am Subject: Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN I know, I was talking about the tree being WAV instead of audio; I was talking about receiving the CDs in WAV. I wouldn't have any problem to send them in WAV or MP3 (I would even prefer that way, it's easier than burning audio). Actually, by the time the distribution starts, I'm not sure if I will be able to send audio CDRs; maybe I'll only be able to make MP3 CDRs for my client. But let's see how it goes... anyway, my point was, I don't want to receive data CDs because then I'd have to spend more money (and precious time) converting it all to audio CDRs. I prefer getting audio CDRs. >> Although I know that WAV or SHN (never had heard of that before this) would >> be the best way to distribute without losing anything, it would be too >> troublesome for me to burn some 50 CDRs, and then have 100 CDs, 50 in wav >> and 50 in cdr. > > If your 'client' is a leaf, then burn red book. If your 'client' is a lower branch, then burn WAV. You only have to make 1 burn in either case. There is no extra work or extra expense. (...) > Ciao -- Mark From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:50 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1189 > Here's a novel idea: > > Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. > (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be > very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). > > Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio > CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this > disc, etc. > Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. > > This ensures that everyone gets a good copy, and if not, they > only have to go back as far as their immediate branch to get a > replacement. This avoids the possibility of having an error > high in a branch somewhere that propagates to 15 or 20 people... > Errors would be limited to one level. > > Lets look at the pros: > - Less discs = less money for blanks and postage > - errors limited to 1 level only > - No time wasted making copies at 1X to ensure quality > - Less time spent checking each disc for errors > - Less opportunity for missed errors to propagate > - Only Branches need to know anything about SHN > > And the Cons: > - branches have to learn SHN - CDAudio conversion software > (is this freeware? Where to downlaod?) > > Assuming the conversion is painless and quick, the Cons are > minimal and the pros are impressive! > > The technology is there to ensure everyone gets the best > possible copies with the least amount of money and effort. > Lets use it! > > James Kevin, Mark, Mike, Timo and Marcel I think get the 'preservation' thing I was talking about...James is absolutely right in what he came up with on the shn thing (by himself, no less!! I am impressed). But all of the reasons mentioned by James are exactly why .shn is becoming the 'distribution' method of choice amongst traders...but I would not go so far as require all branches to be shn literate, that may be asking too much. Certainly all leaves will have the option of getting redbook audio though! (and a bit-perfect reproduction to boot!) One other thing that hasn't been mentioned regarding .shn is since they are files in a directory structure on the cd, you usually have more than enough room to include the artwork as well as a text file describing each recording on the disc. So on a .shn disc you would have the following file structure: td19750816.shnf td19750816-d1.shnf td19750816-d1t01.shn td19750816-d1t02.shn td19750816-d1t03.shn td19750816-d1t04.shn td19750816-d1.md5 td19750816-d2.shnf td19750816-d2t01.shn td19750816-d2t02.shn td19750816-d2t03.shn td19750816-d2t04.shn td19750816-d2.md5 td19750816_front.jpg td19750816_back.jpg td19750816_info.txt There is even a standard acceptable practice in 'naming' shows, which if you wanna be anal we could adhere too. What this shows is the group 'td', the date 'YYYYMMDD', the audio disc #'s and track #'s in their respective directories, which is designated by a .shnf. The text file would simply have date/venue/track names/timings/taper's name/what was done to it (i.e. equalization/speed correction/mono-to-stereo, etc.)/tree structure/etc....anything you want really. Pretty simple, huh?? Yeah, right!! :-) Craig From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies >Marmalade Skies is way out in front of the poll with 32% of the vote. I >think it is a cool name because it automatically implies the 'tangerine >trees' lyric. > >But 'Tree of Dreams' was a close second for me not only because of the 'Sea >of Dreams' refernce, but also because it would be a good name even if >someone wasn't familiar with SOD. I know I'm late with my suggestion, but ideas don't usually come exactly when needed. Well. As real tangerines do grow in trees, how about Citrus reticulata? That's the latin name of a tangerine... John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:05 pm Subject: SHN and XP I just downloaded and tried mkw Audio Compression Tool and it failed on my Windows XP machine. But it works perfectly when you right-click on the shortcut on your desktop and make it Windows95 compatible. Just wanted to share it. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: 'Craig Cordrey' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:31 pm Subject: RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Okay, it's entirely possible that I'm just plain THICK, but on this issue of SHN.... I am a branch with, let's say, 3 leaves. 1. The trunk sends me an SHN CDR. 2. I make three Audio copies for my leaves. 3. I then have to make an Audio copy for myself (unless you're going to tell me that my SHN copy will play in a standard CD player). 4. I now have an extra, unneeded SHN copy which is the item that I B&P'd for. That seems to be costing me more. I'd like to make a stand for the lazy and non-technically minded and I say 'Keep It Simple, Stupid!'. Standard CD's, no special compression, sent to everyone irrespective of arboreal tendencies. Yours woodenly Craig Cordrey Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31387 Re: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31390 Re: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31393 Re: [tree]Red Book vs SHN atye@a... Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:39 pm Subject: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! >James Owens said: > >Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. >(I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be >very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). You've just ruled out 50% of the branches as well as Hieko. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31395 Re: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!? Owens, James Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31399 Re: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!? Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31401 Re: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!? Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 1/15/2002 4 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:59 pm Subject: [tree] names having not read the list in days and having now read several of the digests I suggest this name Traumatic :) --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31388 Re: [tree] names Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31447 [tree] names tei waz Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31448 Re: [tree] names Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Glad you're asking this question, Craig, so that I can clarify it for you. You will not receive an shn formatted disk unless you specifically elect to be in a shn-friendly branch. The default standard for distribution for this tree is redbook audio. Further clarification: YOU MUST LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT SHN. Otherwise, you will be placed in a redbook branch. To do so, click here: mailto:tadream-owner@yahoogroups.com?subject=I_want_shn Furthermore, if you want to be SHN-ONLY, that's fine, too. The standard will be that EVERYBODY RECeIVES REDBOOK UNLESS THEY SPECIFY SHN-'ONLY'. Hope that clarifies. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Cordrey [mailto:craig.cordrey@b...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:32 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN > > > > Okay, it's entirely possible that I'm just plain THICK, but > on this issue of > SHN.... > > I am a branch with, let's say, 3 leaves. > > 1. The trunk sends me an SHN CDR. > 2. I make three Audio copies for my leaves. > 3. I then have to make an Audio copy for myself (unless > you're going to tell > me that my SHN copy will play in a standard CD player). > 4. I now have an extra, unneeded SHN copy which is the item > that I B&P'd > for. > > That seems to be costing me more. > > I'd like to make a stand for the lazy and non-technically > minded and I say > 'Keep It Simple, Stupid!'. Standard CD's, no special > compression, sent to > everyone irrespective of arboreal tendencies. > > Yours woodenly > Craig Cordrey > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] names LOL ROFLMAO > -----Original Message----- > From: tei waz [mailto:teiwazbarana@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:00 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [tree] names > > > having not read the list in days and having now read several > of the digests > I suggest this name > > > Traumatic > > > :) > > --T > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:37 pm Subject: [tree] CDR brand recommendations I have the following CDR recommendations on the tree info page, which I think Morgan gave. Does anyone else have any recommendations or links for me to put in the 'CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS:' section? Note: these are only RECOMMENDATIONS that we will provide on the info page, not mandates. You should communicate with your branchline to agree on media. - Imation - Verbatim Datalife Plus (not valuelife!!) - TDK - Memorex Platinum 74 min or silver-top 80 min (NOT GOLD!!) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31392 Re: [tree] CDR brand recommendations Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31396 Re: [tree] CDR brand recommendations Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN At 07:31 PM 01/15/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I'd like to make a stand for the lazy and non-technically minded and I say >'Keep It Simple, Stupid!'. Standard CD's, no special compression, sent to >everyone irrespective of arboreal tendencies. Arf arf! Have to say I agree with you Craig. I have the shn software (have had for some time) but it makes my eyes cross when I see all the stuff I have to do for a simple disc. Luddites R Us From: 'tei waz' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:02 pm Subject: [tree] fring formats.../observations we start off talking about how cheap CDRs are and then talk about not wasting space....I would love shn discs if I actually get them.... would I need to snip the shn files to make CDRs--say if an SHN clocked in at over 74 or 80 minutes or would they be the same length as the original tape sides 45/55/55/60 or CDR 74/80 minutes? If I were to use mp3 I'd rather have variable bit rate at 100%--although I find the constantly changing times on say winamp during playback annoying. I don't really like how the high frequencies sound on mp3 formatted discs, but my hearing is shot in many bands across the audio spectrum, so maybe it's just my ears :) And I've been known to use a software and it generally tells me if there are RIFF chunk problems and truncations--are these mostly from NERO burns? eac is fine but can be awfully slow--ever try to use it on the klaus schulze box set or CDRs with labels from others on this list?--sometimes it grabs at 0.6X real time. Some times it works fine and I can get 1.7X. Sometimes I lose patience and use another grabber that almost always grabs at 4X. And hell sometimes I use my machine at work. I'd offer MD to those that want copies (must send blanks) but I can only do them in real time and that would take forever :) finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your soundcard is also an issue. --T _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31394 Re: [tree] fring formats.../observations Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31398 Re: [tree] fring formats.../observations mars103nl Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31403 [tree] fring formats.../observations Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] CDR brand recommendations At 03:37 PM 01/15/2002 -0500, you wrote: > Does anyone else have any recommendations or links for >me to put in the 'CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS:' section? I've had much success with Fujifilm 80 min. discs lately. Been using them almost exclusively for some months with nary a problem--and have gotten them back in trades from some very respectable people, so I would recommend them as well. These are Japanese manufacture. Prob T-Y's. Mike From: atye@a... Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Hey, 'arboreal tendencies' might be the name...... ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] fring formats.../observations At 01:02 PM 01/15/2002 -0800, you wrote: >say if an SHN clocked in at >over 74 or 80 minutes or would they be the same length as the original tape >sides 45/55/55/60 or CDR 74/80 minutes? From what I read, I think they would be the same as the original file when uncompressed-and there seems to be some method to 'measure' the time before compressing or whatever. >I don't really like how the high frequencies sound on mp3 formatted discs, >but my hearing is shot in many bands across the audio spectrum, so maybe >it's just my ears :) Don't think so. I've got some acoustic guitar mp3 files and the highs are really harsh--except on this old pair of A/R speakers I have, which are known to roll off highs. :-) They REALLY suck in the car, though, and since this is broad spectrum synth, I'd imagine worse. >And I've been known to use a software and it generally tells me if there are >RIFF chunk problems and truncations--are these mostly from NERO burns? I've been playing with some software called Audio Cleaning Lab by a German outfit called Magix and have been impressed with it. Mainly for transferring vinyl and tape to disc, but have been using it on direct disc to disc things with great results. It has all ends of tools to play with (dehisser, decrackler, depopper, eq, compressor, direct x stuff, file editing, etc., and does a bang up job cleaning up tapes and vinyl. Quite easy to use too. Mike From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:37 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! That's not my intention. Heiko and whoever else is seeding can pass the CDR audio to the tree root. THAT PERSON should be someone who is able to convert to SHN. Then the first level branches would receive their copies in SHN. This also saves on the inter-continental shipping charges to the roots in the US, Australia, South America, etc. Less discs mailed = cheaper for everybody. Only the root needs to worry about file structure and naming. The main trunk would be SHN, but at some level, Audio-only branches come from the SHN trunk. These branches would consist of those folks who prefer to receive and send audio only. I think this is a reasonable structure, since it benefits EVERYONE, and those who don't want to deal with SHN will STILL get the benefit of less errors and quicker distribution. (trunk-to-trunk would have just over half the discs to copy which could really speed things up...) It may complicate organization a bit, but no more than a totally separate SHN tree. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > You've just ruled out 50% of the branches as well as Hieko. From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] CDR brand recommendations I would add to that list Kodak. I never had any problems with it. I haven't used but I guess that Sony would be reliable too. And I've just began using Samsung, which also seems to be good. I guess you can be safe with any major and worldwide known brand. >I have the following CDR recommendations on the tree info page, which I >think Morgan gave. Does anyone else have any recommendations or links for >me to put in the 'CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS:' section? >- Imation >- Verbatim Datalife Plus (not valuelife!!) >- TDK >- Memorex Platinum 74 min or silver-top 80 min (NOT GOLD!!) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:52 pm Subject: RE: [tree] SHN ** attn ** Joe Shoults I would like to use the SHN format on my branch, if I have leaves I should be able to convert to their desired format. Thanks for all the education material. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31400 Re: [tree] SHN ** attn ** Joe Shoults Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: Re: [tree] fring formats.../observations --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your soundcard is > also an issue. Not really. You don't need an audiocard for making a digital copy. In fact I urge people NOT to use their audio-card for making a copy to their hard-drive, except for Heiko who is making a copy from whatever source he is using into his PC. And that raises the question...Heiko, what soundcard do you have? Say it ain't a Soundblaster... Or are you using digital inputs? Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! We already have the SHN roots established as Craig Chambers and Michael Fox, who will take care of the file structure issue. They can't establish this structure until Heiko has the files ready, and this is happening quickly in the background. We will continue to inform you of the details as they become solid. There are plenty of people not interested in shn, btw. i'm participating as redbook+shn, but I'll probably just shelve the shn disks for posterity, and use the redbooks right away. If I lose a redbook (or give it away in a trade or whatever), I can restore from the shn archive, presumably even better than original. Again, part of this tree will be all redbook. part will be redbook+shn. part may be shn-only. We'll know Feb 1. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:37 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! > > > That's not my intention. Heiko and whoever else is seeding > can pass the CDR audio to the tree root. THAT PERSON should > be someone who is able to convert to SHN. Then the first level From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:22 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: [tree] SHN ** attn ** Joe Shoults is that SHN+redbook or shn-only? the reason I'm asking on list is so other people will reply with the same info if they elect shn. personally, I want the shn, but I don't want to bother converting back to wav, then burning to redbook, unless I have to. > -----Original Message----- > From: Whiteley, Steve [mailto:steve.whiteley@s...] > I would like to use the SHN format on my branch, if I have > leaves I should > be able to convert to their desired format. Thanks for all > the education material. > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! Same here, I will keep both. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:15 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! > We already have the SHN roots established as Craig Chambers and Michael Fox, > who will take care of the file structure issue. They can't establish this > structure until Heiko has the files ready, and this is happening quickly in > the background. > > We will continue to inform you of the details as they become solid. > > There are plenty of people not interested in shn, btw. i'm participating as > redbook+shn, but I'll probably just shelve the shn disks for posterity, and > use the redbooks right away. If I lose a redbook (or give it away in a > trade or whatever), I can restore from the shn archive, presumably even > better than original. > > Again, part of this tree will be all redbook. part will be redbook+shn. > part may be shn-only. We'll know Feb 1. > > Joe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:37 PM > > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! > > > > > > That's not my intention. Heiko and whoever else is seeding > > can pass the CDR audio to the tree root. THAT PERSON should > > be someone who is able to convert to SHN. Then the first level > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:35 pm Subject: [tree] Voting for a name I'm a little resentful that I suggested the very first name (A Dream Come True) and now I don't even get to vote. Why is this being monopolized by Yahoo? I like 'Traumatic'. Would like 'Traumatized' too. -- Mark PS: It doesn't really matter as I'm going to call mine what I want to call it. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31405 Re: [tree] Voting for a name Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31406 [tree] Voting for a name Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 5 KB 31410 Re: [tree] Voting for a name Antonio Nunes Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:43 pm Subject: [tree] fring formats.../observations tei waz wrote: > > finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your soundcard is > also an issue. Why's that? -- Mark From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:55 pm Subject: [tree] Outboard sampler only, please (was: fring formats.../observations) The only really good sampler to use is an outboard sampler, not a card in a PC. The electrical environment in a PC is just too crummy. It doesn't matter what sound card you have. PCs card busses don't have enough grounds (true even of PCI bus), the bus grounds are too far away from the chips and inputs, and there is inadequite shielding (usually, none!). I'm an electrical (hardware) engineer. This technology I do know about and was one of six architects who specified the EISA bus (forerunner of PCI). Take me word for it, use only an outboard sampler. If doing a rip, please use only DAE (direct audio extraction), not CDR audio output sampling. If your CD does not support DAE, then be a leaf, not a branch. My 2 cents. Ciao -- Mark mars103nl wrote: > > --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > > > finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your > soundcard is > > also an issue. > > Not really. > You don't need an audiocard for making a digital copy. > In fact I urge people NOT to use their audio-card > for making a copy to their hard-drive, except for Heiko > who is making a copy from whatever source he is using > into his PC. > And that raises the question...Heiko, what soundcard > do you have? Say it ain't a Soundblaster... > Or are you using digital inputs? > > Marcel From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:11 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name 'A dream come true' is in the listing and has received one vote. I'm not sure what you mean by 'monopolized' by yahoo, but if you mean that you resent having to login or establish a yahoogroups profile in order to access the polling feature at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls then I understand. Many people have been confumbsilated by the yahoogorups profile thing. But what do you want for free? your money back? ;-) I'll add your vote to 'A dream come true', or did you want 'Traumatic' or 'Traumatized'?. Current standings: name # of votes Diamond Dreams 2 The Road Less Travelled 2 (The) Tangerine Tree 1 4 A Tree of Dreams 1 Marmalade skies 9 A dream come true 1 Sharing the Dream 3 One World Dream 1 Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies 2 TraumEpoche 1 Traumstücke 1 (all other choices have zero votes) > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:36 PM > To: Tadream > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name > > > I'm a little resentful that I suggested the very first name > (A Dream Come True) and now I don't even get to vote. Why is > this being monopolized by Yahoo? > > I like 'Traumatic'. Would like 'Traumatized' too. -- Mark > > PS: It doesn't really matter as I'm going to call mine what I > want to call it. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:27 pm Subject: [tree] Voting for a name I think this name is being rushed. We all learned a lot about SHN and though originally ignorant, I thank all who educated me. Regarding the name, I'll just put it this way: If the artwork that comes with the sources says 'Marmalade skies', I'll make my own artwork. This is a compilation of Tangerine Dream, not The Ones. 'Lady Greengrass' was written by Edgar as part of The Ones. Oh, wait... we don't even know if Edgar wrote 'Lady Greengrass', do we? Isn't that an assumption? It could have been a collaboration by Edgar, Kurt, Lanse, and Volker. 'Marmalade skies' makes no sense to me. As I originally posted, I'd prefer a name that applies to Tangerine Dream, that is dignified, and that is in German (as a tribute). 'Traumatic' is a good name, IMHO, that spans English-German. But I suspect that at this point, it is too late already to suggest new names, so I guess when I get my personal copy, I will be modifying the artwork to read 'Traumatic' and that will be that -- no big deal, eh? Ciao -- Mark Joe Shoults wrote: > > 'A dream come true' is in the listing and has received one vote. I'm not > sure what you mean by 'monopolized' by yahoo, but if you mean that you > resent having to login or establish a yahoogroups profile in order to access > the polling feature at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls then I understand. Many people > have been confumbsilated by the yahoogorups profile thing. > > But what do you want for free? your money back? ;-) > > I'll add your vote to 'A dream come true', or did you want 'Traumatic' or > 'Traumatized'?. > > Current standings: > > name # of votes > > Diamond Dreams 2 > The Road Less Travelled 2 > (The) Tangerine Tree 1 4 > A Tree of Dreams 1 > Marmalade skies 9 > A dream come true 1 > Sharing the Dream 3 > One World Dream 1 > Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies 2 > TraumEpoche 1 > Traumstücke 1 > (all other choices have zero votes) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:36 PM > > To: Tadream > > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name > > > > > > I'm a little resentful that I suggested the very first name > > (A Dream Come True) and now I don't even get to vote. Why is > > this being monopolized by Yahoo? > > > > I like 'Traumatic'. Would like 'Traumatized' too. -- Mark > > > > PS: It doesn't really matter as I'm going to call mine what I > > want to call it. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:27 pm Subject: tree formats Hiya all, lots of things I could say about the formats discussion, but basically all I would say has already been said. I'm volounteering to root source the MP3 tree, that is, encoding (Lame or Fraunhofer, 192 or 256 kB ?). A few of us are keen on (as far as humanely possible) bit-exact copies of the masters. Bear in mind that our root source, Heiko (at least do him the honour to spell his name correctly!) is using HiFi equipment - the equivalent to on-the-fly copying on computers. Also, the 'raw' transfers from tape he's got will be 'mastered' by a bunch of different people. I suggest the 'bit-exact'-fanatics sign up with a clear identification of their wants, including 'mastered' or 'raw' material, and I'm sure there will be a way to get everybody what he wants. As a bit of condensed technical info for the ones on the default red book Audio CD track: - please copy DAO (Disk At Once, no extra pauses between tracks) - due to the nature of reading the original master CD, it is possible to have errors (glitches, klicks) on the copy without an error message during the process. - These can _only_ be avoided by first reading the master CD with a special audio extraction program (EAC gives the most information about errors) and then burning a copy from the files on the hard drive. This is how I copy CDRs. Never, ever on-the-fly! I had to learn better the hard way... TeiWaz, you're absolutely right in mentioning that EAC _can_ be painfully slow. That's what happens when there are problems with the original, it keeps on reading and reading and reading until it's sure to have the data right. Not a bug, a feature. I highly recommend it's use _if_ you are a branch feeding one of our 'very quality concious' members. cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31409 Re: tree formats Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 4 KB From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:37 pm Subject: tree name suggestion Can't help it, late at night ;-) : nice artwork, but with a little 'logo' somewhere, showing a gargoyle on a sleeping Edgar's chest, caption: Alptraum (nightmare , in English) cheers, klaus From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree formats Do you know how/where I can get EAC? -- Mark Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > Hiya all, > > lots of things I could say about the formats discussion, but > basically all I would say has already been said. > > I'm volounteering to root source the MP3 tree, that is, > encoding (Lame or Fraunhofer, 192 or 256 kB ?). > > A few of us are keen on (as far as humanely possible) > bit-exact copies of the masters. > > Bear in mind that our root source, Heiko (at least do him > the honour to spell his name correctly!) is using HiFi > equipment - the equivalent to on-the-fly copying on > computers. Also, the 'raw' transfers from tape he's > got will be 'mastered' by a bunch of different people. > > I suggest the 'bit-exact'-fanatics sign up with a clear > identification of their wants, including 'mastered' or > 'raw' material, and I'm sure there will be a way to > get everybody what he wants. > > As a bit of condensed technical info for the ones > on the default red book Audio CD track: > > - please copy DAO (Disk At Once, no extra pauses between tracks) > - due to the nature of reading the original master CD, it is > possible to have errors (glitches, klicks) on the copy without > an error message during the process. > - These can _only_ be avoided by first reading the master CD with > a special audio extraction program (EAC gives the most information > about errors) and then burning a copy from the files on the > hard drive. This is how I copy CDRs. Never, ever on-the-fly! > I had to learn better the hard way... > > TeiWaz, you're absolutely right in mentioning that EAC _can_ > be painfully slow. That's what happens when there are problems > with the original, it keeps on reading and reading and reading until > it's sure to have the data right. Not a bug, a feature. > > I highly recommend it's use _if_ you are a branch feeding > one of our 'very quality concious' members. > > cheers, > klaus From: Antonio Nunes Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name Mark Filipak wrote: > > Regarding the name, I'll just put it this way: If the artwork that comes with the sources says 'Marmalade skies', I'll make my own artwork. This is a compilation of Tangerine Dream, not The Ones. The lyrics 'With tangerine trees and marmalade skies' is from the song 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' by The Beatles. That's why I wrote in a previous message that the name 'Marmalade Skies' would be a cool name for a Beatles tree. Antonio From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:09 am Subject: RE: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats and ways to burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use mp3. WTF?????? How can you take something so simple as to use the CD COPIER function with DAO in your various burning programs and distort the crap out of it makes me shake my head. I have one word for you folks: KISS Keep It Simple Stupid Let stick with the simple things in life. Thanks, Robert aka THE HIGHLANDER Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31415 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Michael A Jean Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31416 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER KMJ Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31418 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Admin Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31437 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Admin Wed 1/16/2002 4 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:40 am Subject: [tree] Voting for a name -- 'Marmalade skies' Antonio Nunes wrote: > > Mark Filipak wrote: > > > > Regarding the name, I'll just put it this way: If the artwork that comes with the sources says 'Marmalade skies', I'll make my own artwork. This is a compilation of Tangerine Dream, not The Ones. > > The lyrics 'With tangerine trees and marmalade skies' is from the song > 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' by The Beatles. That's why I wrote in a > previous message that the name 'Marmalade Skies' would be a cool name > for a Beatles tree. I thought that the allusion here is not to The Beatles, but to the line in 'Lady Greengrass': 'The trees turn tangerine, the sky is suddenly green....' If the reference is to The Beatles, well, that just doesn't make sense to me. This isn't a Beatles collection we're doing. Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. What ?? Please. Let's not perpetuate this mythical connection with The Beatles. It simply doesn't exist. Other possible cool names: 'Alptraum' -- from Klaus B. (I like it) 'Traumatic' -- form tei waz 'Traumatized' -- from me, earlier. 'Trauma' -- from me, just now. 'Traumatisch Traum' -- from me, just now. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31443 Re: [tree] Voting for a name -- 'Marmalade skies' Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:43 am Subject: Seeking George Veltmann Hello. Does anyone have an email address for George Veltmann? Last I knew, he was living in Dortmund. Thanks -- Mark From: KMJ Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:56 am Subject: Re: CDR brand recommendations >Note: these are only RECOMMENDATIONS that we will provide on the info page, >not mandates. You should communicate with your branchline to agree on >media. > >- Imation >- Verbatim Datalife Plus (not valuelife!!) >- TDK >- Memorex Platinum 74 min or silver-top 80 min (NOT GOLD!!) If I'm not mistaken, all of these discs mentioned above are made in Taiwan and are considered grade 'B' media. Having said that, my choice of disc is FUJI. Made in Japan and grade 'A'. Kevin From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:39 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER I concur...I have such a headache from reading all these messages, I can't even imagine participating...But that's just me... > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Grabowsky [mailto:hghlndr@t...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:09 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] RE: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER > > > You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats > and ways to > burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use > mp3. WTF?????? > > How can you take something so simple as to use the CD COPIER function > with DAO in your various burning programs and distort the crap out of it > makes me shake my head. > > I have one word for you folks: KISS > > Keep > It > Simple > Stupid > > Let stick with the simple things in life. > > Thanks, > Robert aka THE HIGHLANDER > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: KMJ Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:42 am Subject: Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Robert made some excellent points in his post. Points well taken. So Robert, that means you're signing up for the SHN tree right??? >From: Robert Grabowsky > > You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats and ways to >burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use mp3. WTF?????? > > How can you take something so simple as to use the CD COPIER function >with DAO in your various burning programs and distort the crap out of it >makes me shake my head. > > I have one word for you folks: KISS > > Keep > It > Simple > Stupid > > Let stick with the simple things in life. From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:59 am Subject: [tree] Digital Audio Extraction >Klaus Beschorner said: >- due to the nature of reading the original master CD, it is >possible to have errors (glitches, klicks) on the copy without >an error message during the process. >- These can _only_ be avoided by first reading the master CD with >a special audio extraction program (EAC gives the most information >about errors) and then burning a copy from the files on the >hard drive. This is how I copy CDRs. Never, ever on-the-fly! >I had to learn better the hard way... I agree wholeheartedly. And DAE should be mandatory, no analog resampling. When you extract a disc, especially at high speed, please at the very least verify the integrity of the last 2-3 tracks on the disc, especially near the end. Usually, if there was a problem reading, it will be at the outer tracks due to the much higher spin rate at the outer edges. Another way to check for a bad read is to jump to the beginning of each track and see if it starts too early or 'mid-fade up'. This would indicate that small segments have been skipped and the start of the track is out of alignment. -Morgan From: 'Admin' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Well this much I do know. 1. I am sure I will be told what disks I will get to make the leaves from. 2. I am sure the leaves will tell me what format they want. 3. I am almost sure I will be looking around for the various programs to make these copies as requested. 4. My bottom line to me is, I will hear TD material that I have never heard before and may never if it wasn't for this tree. So you can debate the format till a certain place freezes over, still I wait knowing that I will soon hear what I have not before. dale My disks of choice Joe is Maxell, Yamaha and Memorex. I would kill if I had to use TDK. Why? Everytime I use a TDK I have to cut the speed down to half the rated (8 speed records at 4 and on). I do own nearly 150 TDK disks now so I believe I have some experience here when I say, TDK does not burn well on my CDRecorder. Why do I have some many? Trade. So if you want to poke some fun at me, send me a TDK disk. It is my lot in life you know! From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:00 am Subject: [tree] >Michael A Jean said: >I concur...I have such a headache from reading all these messages, I can't >even imagine participating...But that's just me... Nobody complained that much when the Sea of Dreams tree went thru. I guess Hieko could have contacted a few people privately and tried to figure it out on his own and then just present us with the tree rules and say 'here it is, it's immutable, do it this way.' We'd have an equal number of people generating headaches about how we should be able to do this or that. -Morgan From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:03 am Subject: [tree] My witty comment got cut off. On the tadream list, you will always get input, whether it is wanted or not. :) -Morgan From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:07 am Subject: EAC experiences Before I begin, Edgar, Jerome, and/or Martin: If you are reading this, rest assured that I do not rip commercial releases to make MP3s for the net and I do not burn commercial releases to sell. I'm not a pirate. I have 5 copies of 'Poland' commercial releases, so the band has made it's money from me. I am archiving and hope to some day make a CDRx2 of the entire Torwar Ice Stadium show in the order of performance, if that is possible, for my own listening pleasure. Contents ======== Getting Started with EAC Ripping 'Poland' Conclusions PS: Chronology listing for the Torwar Ice Stadium show - for folks interested in minutiae. Getting Started with EAC ======================== I downloaded EAC (Exact Audio Copy) version 0.9 prebeta 11 (filename: u6ep5z8z.zip) from http://www.exactaudiocopy.de. There is no install program, just copy EAC.EXE to a final, working directory and run it. I set up EAC: EAC options > Extraction > Extraction and compression priority: High EAC options > Extraction > Error recovery quality: High EAC options > Directories > Use this directory: ...rip_destination... Drive options > Gap Detection > Detection accuracy: Secure Drive options > Drive > Spin up drive before extraction I tested my DVD drive: Drive options > Extraction Method > Detect Read Features... button Analysis: Caching: No Accurate Stream: Yes C2 Error Info: Yes Drive options > Drive > Autodetect read command now button This automatically set Drive options > Drive > Drive read command: Read command MMC 1 I configured the Drive options based on the test: Drive options > Extraction Method > Secure modes > C2 error informations I left everything else at default, including EAC options > Normalize > (none) as I normalize (if needed) in my WAV editor. I'd be interested in sharing EACProfile.CFG files with other users of EAC to compare setups. Ripping 'Poland' ================ Then I began work on 'Poland'. I have three copies of 'Poland', Relativity 88561-8045-2, blue letters, spindle marked: 8045-2-1-1T '21'. (Note, this is one of only 3 versions that contain the full 'Poland' release as found on the gatefold LPs. -- the other 2 are Jive (DE) 8.28638, and a second Relativity release, also 88561-8045-2, but with brown letters, spindle marked: 88561-8045-2/1(V). Beside the color of the lettering, the blue lettered version has 3 indexes on disc 1 while the brown letter version has only 2, but the music is identical.) I ripped disc 2, copy #1, tracks 1 & 2 to: Poland 04 (EAC quality-99.9% crc-EB47996B) .wav Poland 05 (EAC quality-100% crc-4156DA60) .wav The percent of accuracy was reported at the end of the rip. Then I ripped disc 2, copy #2, track 1 to: Poland 04 (EAC quality-100% crc-EB47996B) .wav I did a binary comparison of the two copies of track 4 (i.e., 'Barbakane') and they were identical, so whatever correction EAC did to the first rip (quality-99.9%) was correct. I repeated this for disc 1. Across all 3 copies, I could not get (unlabeled) track 3, 'Rare Bird' to yield 100% accuracy, though they all yielded the same accuracy and the same CRC and they all binary compared the same. Then I checked the information on errors at the end of the rip and discovered that the error was merely that the index was not formatted properly when they were mastered. Oh well, no problem. I now have archival copies of both 'Poland' discs that are bit-perfect. Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .wav Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .wav Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .wav Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .wav Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .wav Conclusions =========== EAC is wonderful. What a powerful tool. Thank you all for recommending it. I will be sending Andre Wiethoff some beer money. 8-) It's really nice to get actual statistics on accuracy. BTW, EAC is not slow on my 650 MHz machine. I ran it in the mode where it does two passes: test, then copy. I had set it to secure mode, maximum accuracy. It tested and ripped both tracks of disc 2 in under 10 minutes at speeds between 6x and 13x. In my opinion, that's little time well spent to obtain bit-perfect, archival copies. Next, I'm going to download and try SHN to compress my bit-perfect copies. I will post my experiences. Ciao -- Mark PS: Chronology Listing for the Torwar Ice Stadium show ________________________________________________________________________ Torwar Ice Stadium, Warsaw [10 Dec 83] - EF+CF+JS ________________ __/ 'Poland' Suite \______________ 8 04:51 Barbakane 3 [3:17] (intro/atmosphere) [0:48] _________________ 1 Love on a Polish Train __/ 'Horizon' Suite \_____________ [10:42] 00:00 (atmosphere) (bridge 1-2) [2:26] 9 04:20 Horizon 1 [5:13] 2 Poland 2 [8:46] 09:33 (bridge 10-11) [4:34] (bridge 2-3) [0:37] 10 14:07 Horizon 2 [6:32] _________________ _________ __/ 'Tangent' Suite \_____________ __/ Encores \_____________________ 3 Tangent 1 [3:16] 11 Rarebird [3:41] (bridge 3-break) [?] ____________________ == break ========================= __/ Post Concert Edits \__________ (bridge break-4) [0:50] 12 Barbakane 3 [1:37] %9 4 Tangent 2 [5:03] (early fade) (bridge 4-5) [0:20] 13 Polish Dance [4:20] %5 5 Polish Dance [5:18] (shortened mid) ___________________ ______________________ __/ 'Barbakane' Suite \___________ __/ Post Concert Remixes \________ (atmosphere) [2:42] 14 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2 6 The Smuggler [5:52] [3:57] %&+8 (bridge 6-break) [?] 15 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.1 [4:43] == break ========================= &+8 (bridge break-7) [0:08] 16 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2 [3:04] 7 Warsaw in the Sun [4:43] %14 (early fade) _______ __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Key: % excerpt; & remix; + overdub Seg 6 identified on 'Dream Roots Collection.' Segs 5, 7, and 11 identified on the 7' and 12' disks. Segs 1-4, and 8-10 given unofficial names to aid cross referencing. Announcement (trans): 'Good evening. State Artistic Agency, PAGART, and State Entertainment Enterprises, IMPART, welcome you to the concert of a group which is one of the creators of the style called electronic rock... Before You: Chris Franke, Johannes Schmoelling and Edgar Froese, or Tangerine Dream.' The show was supposedly interrupted five times by power failures, as indicated by some of the breaks above. Since many bridges were dubbed after the show to bridge over breaks caused by power failures, further time indexing to what was actually performed is not possible. Further, The actual order of segments is unknown. It has been reported that 'Rarebird' was an encore, which is supported by cheering both before and after. Cheering is also present following 'Polish Dance' and 'Horizon 2', signifying the probable end of sets. ___________________________________ __/ Recordings - AAA (original mixes) \_______________________________ LPx2 - Segs 1+2/3-5+11/6-8/9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' [1984] Jive (GB) HIP 22 [1984] Jive (FR) CA 292 66-226 [1984] Jive (GB) HIP X 22 [1984] Jive/RCA Ariola (CA) [1984] Jive (DE) VL 89284 JV 6616/2 (test pressing) [1984] Tonpress (PL) SX-T 64/65 [1984] Jive (DE) 6.28638 1/2 [1985] CNR Records (NL) 573.003/4 (test pressing) [1986] Rel. (US) EMC 8045 [1984] Jive (DE) 6.28638 X [1984] Jive/Messagerie Musicale (IT) ZL 6626 MC - Segs 1+2,3-5+11/6-8,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' [1984] Jive (GB) HIP C 22 [1986] Rel. (US) EMCT 8045 [1984] Jive (DE) 4.28638 [1997] Metal Mind (PL) CAST 0022 [1984] Jive/Messagerie Musicale (IT) ZK 6626 _______________________________________________ __/ Recordings - AAA (post concert edits/remixes) \___________________ 7' - Segs 5/14 as 'Polish Dance'/'Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2' [1984] Jive (GB) 74 [1985] Tonpress (PL) S-575 [1984] Jive (GB) P74B (Poland-shaped picture disk) 7' - Segs 13/14 as 'Polish Dance'/'Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2' [1984] Jive (DE) 6.14 254 AC 12' - Segs 11,5/15+16 as 'Warsaw in the Sun' [1984] Jive (GB) T 74 [1984] CBS/Sony (JP) 12AP 3038 [1984] Jive (DE,GB) 6.20382 AE [1984] Carrere (FR) CA 6168.470 [1984] Jive/Teldec (DE) 12AP3038 [1984] Jive/Bertelsman (MX) SL-7139 ___________________________________ __/ Recordings - AAD (original mixes) \_______________________________ CDx2 - Segs 1+2,3-5,11,6-8,9+10 (5 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg-media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-4[02:50] 9-5[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-4[09:20] 10-5[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-3[00:08] 8-4[14:12] [1984] Jive (DE) 8.28638 [1988] Rel. (US) 88561-8045-2 (titles on discs in blue; spindle: 8045-2-1-1T '21') CDx2 - Segs 1+2,3-5+11,6-8,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-3[02:50] 9-4[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-3[09:20] 10-4[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-2[16:02] 8-3[14:12] [1988] Rel. (US) 88561-8045-2 (titles on discs in brown; spindle: 88561-8045-2/1(V)) CD - Segs 1+2,6+7,9+10 (3 media tracks) as 'Extracts from Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 6-2[02:50] 9-3[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 7-2[09:20] 10-3[14:07] [1984] Jive (GB) CHIP 22 [1984] Jive (DE) 8.26099 ZP (cover artwork tinted brown) [1988] Jive (JP) 32XB-221 [1984] Jive/Carriere (FR) CHIP 22 _______________________________________ __/ Recordings - ADD (post concert edits) \___________________________ CD - Segs 1+2,3-5+11,6+7+12,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-3[02:50] 9-4[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-3[09:20] 10-4[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-2[16:02] 12-3[14:12] [1996] Ess. (DE,GB) ESM 365 [1996] Sequel (US) 1044-2 [1996] Dureco (NL) ESM 365 ________________________________________________________________________ From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:52 am Subject: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de see subject for eac url _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31423 http://www.exactaudiocopy.de tei waz Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:52 am Subject: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de see subject for eac url _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:56 am Subject: eac from here: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de my apologies if I sent multi copies of soemthing similar to this--hotmail had some problems or this or if it's been answered already --t _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:57 am Subject: eac from ? here: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de my apologies if I sent multi copies of something similar to this--hotmail had some problems or if it's been answered already --t _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] > I guess Heiko could have contacted a few people privately and tried to figure > it > out on his own and then just present us with the tree rules and say 'here > it is, it's immutable, do it this way.' We'd have an equal number of people > generating headaches about how we should be able to do this or that. A big hello to all tree afficionados, I have been in 'deep lurk mode' since Monday, mostly because I wanted to see the development & feedback about the 'tree' and the direction it was going to take. I learned a lot about how a tree works (thanks to Joe and his invaluable efforts) , and the pro and cons of distributing the music via CD-Rs or by means of shn/mp3 etc. I'm glad to see that quite a considerable number of people have already signed up as branches or leaves, and that there is a lively discussion about the tree. Some may find it tiring to read all the emails which are related to this matter, but I think most of the topics are of considerable importance (again, my apologies to those people who aren't interested in the 'tree' at all, I'm the one who is to blame ~lol~) I know that *quality* is the most important issue (I guess no-one wants to have just another x-gen. recording with hiss, dropouts etc.), and at the moment I already have some helping hands who I'm sure can be trusted. In case all turns out as planned I will start sending out the first couple of CDRs in early February. I have a lot of very promising concerts from the 70s which are going to be remastered by some list members, but right now it's too early to include them in the first batch. Denoising & remastering old concert recordings is a hard job, it takes time and patience to do it right. In some cases I have to ask collectors for their permission to include their own TD concert recordings, it's necessary but also time consuming. I decided to cut down the number of CDRs which will get distributed in the first batch (**now: 10-12 cdr's**), and hope to give you the list of featured concerts sometime next week. I realized that for many of you it would be some sort of 'risky business' to invest money into something were you can't be sure of if it will meet your expectations. It's better to start on a small level, and in case the feedback is good I might consider to increase the number of CDRs for the 2nd round. Regards Heiko From: 'rtol008' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:10 am Subject: [tree] Yet once more, vote for SHN It seems that I started quite a debate about the format to be used. I just wanted to give some alternative ways to keep best quality. I have traded SHN format stuff (~15 CD:s of non-TD material) for a while and am satisfied. Creation of SHN files is fast and simple. It's like zipping files with Winzip. And you can get all back what you packed. I'm not so familiar with different CD burning programs. Is there some program available that gives you 100% disc-copy? If not then the only way to know that you have a 'perfect' copy from top tree down to the lowest leaf is to use data format. Is it WAV or SHN. Let's forget and bury the old idea of N+1th generation copies: that is possible! This SHN-converter also gives some kind of guarantee to verify that you have got unaltered copy. The originator of process gets the MD5-checksum files (automatically, pure text file, and small of size) and it's even possible that he/she put's them available on some web page so everyone can download them. Also these files are of cource included in the CDR:s. ----------------------------------------------------- Here's an example of the content of a checksum file: 8790f0a6396e517addfcc271c31726a7 *710813-d1t01.shn 6f57e0aa8f1ab481796a5bd6d14e3fef *710813-d1t02.shn 4d23abc4817e374e9975d36652f90b59 *710813-d1t03.shn aec3f3b2fd86823184f01ddc5e91a59b *710813-d1t04.shn bada24f36ec0312f324f6d12021e8377 *710813-d1t05.shn 8f989338062de6620448bfda42c1792b *710813-d1t06.shn 1320b497d948f930585833d3591b76b5 *710813-d1t07.shn 20c68365e057f341a58d84504183fb60 *710813-d1t08.shn 382ab6afe726727900663fab511ff519 *710813-d1t09.shn c3c6cbfb04507aebb360c4b8b562d093 *710813-d2t01.shn 0c279ee7f10d14dbdbdf646b5dcbde4f *710813-d2t02.shn 2e740394691b4b9e4938d465a6eabe32 *710813-d2t03.shn 25a084604da1422f9df3b05978ad232b *710813-d2t04.shn ------------------------------------------------------ Jep, I accept any format you select ... to listen to the the music itself is the most important to me ... but let's all think about the possibilities that we have, to keep the quality as good as possible. regards, timo Timo Astala Timo.astala@n... From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:44 am Subject: The tree and the future of Tangerine Dream I'll tell you why I'd like this tree effort to have a dignified, German name. == Personal opinion ahead == I think we may very well be at the end of an era. Jerome's pretty much his own musician now. In interview, Edgar has said that Jerome doesn't really care about the old music. If you listen to the first track of 'Seven Letters from Tibet', I think you may be hearing the future of Edgar Froese. Tangerine Dream's future? Personally, I'll be surprised if TD tours again. When you're pushing 60, your perspective changes and a lot of what was important when you were younger just melts away. Let's do something that will make Edgar, and ourselves proud, eh? Ciao -- Mark From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? Please excuse my laziness, but being inundated with 90+ e-mails per day covering the technicalities of the new CD-R tree, I've really not had the time or the inclination to follow them all. Plus, non-tree content seems to get drowned a bit in the middle of it all. Could someone please send me a summative reply to answer these questions: 1) What will the tree contain? There seems to be some talk about older concert recordings... 2) Not having a CD-R burner, will it be possible for me to join as a 'leaf' as long as I pay for the blank media? 3) Who is going to oversee the tree? I remember joining the last tape tree on the old list and never seeing a single tape because the tree ground to a halt before my branch even received his copy. Thanks folks! Back to work... Dennis From: 'John Vertical' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:21 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? >Please excuse my laziness, but being inundated with 90+ e-mails per >day covering the technicalities of the new CD-R tree, I've really not had >the time or the inclination to follow them all. Plus, non-tree content >seems to get drowned a bit in the middle of it all. > I agree 100% with you. I'm not going to decide whether I'll participate in the tree before you've finally finished arguing what will the tree rules be... and the rates you're generating text with are really starting to dig up my nerve. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31431 [tree] What's this all about? Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31445 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31525 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Owens, James Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31546 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Yensen, Stephen Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:48 am Subject: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis: Want to learn about the tree? Go to: http://www.tadream.net/tree John: Don't want to see tree discussion? 1 - Sort your email by subject 2 - Select all email beginning with [tree] 3 - Hit delete key Appologies, but this is a most important project and its set up requires communication. This list is the channel. It will subside soon. Ciao -- Mark From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:37 pm Subject: SHN experiences Hello All. Here are my experiences with SHN. Contents ======== Installation Configuration Operation Conclusion: 54% compression Installation ============ As suggested by Craig Chambers (Subject: [tadream] RE: SHN, Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:27:01 -0500) I went to http://etree.org/mkw.html and downloaded the following: mkw-mfc42.exe mkwact097b1.exe The first contains Microsoft Foundation Class run time routines which must be installed first (unless you are running Win2K, in which case they already exist on your system), and the second is the actual encoders and decoders. (There is more here than just WAV-to-SHN. There is also WAV-to-MKW, WAV-to-MP3, SHN-to-WAV, MKW-to-WAV, and MP3-to-WAV.) As I usually do, on download, I simultaneously renamed the two files to: install_mkwACT_0.97-beta.1_step.1_(mkw-mfc42).exe install_mkwACT_0.97-beta.1_step.2_(mkwact097b1).exe so that I'll know what they are in the future should I need to reinstall. I ran both installers and was ready to go. When I clicked on Start > Programs > mkw Audio Compression Toolkit > mkw Audio Compression Tool the program started and the toolkit appeared. Configuration ============= I made this change to the default configuration: Options > File Options > Output directory for when input is on a fixed disk drive ... I pushed the 'Same as input' button. Options > File Options > Delete input files after lossless (MKW or SHN) processing ... I unchecked this because I didn't want to lose anything. The toolkit then just sat there waiting for me to drop a file on it. Operation ========= Per the instructions in the toolkit window, I held down the shift key as I dragged and dropped Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.wav (size: 90.566 M-byte) onto the tool. Lickety split, 3 additional files appeared in the directory where the WAV file is domiciled: MAKE100.BAT_.md5 (size: 77 bytes) Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn (size: 41.504 M-bytes) Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.skt (size: 70 k-bytes) I will address each file: MAKE100.BAT_.md5 ---------------- This is the checksum file. Its contents are: 4c078dfd3b046a5caac5d06a790d98cf *Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn Curiousity: The toolkit takes the name of whatever '.txt' file you may have and uses that for the name of the '.md5' file it creates -- in this case, I had a file named 'MAKE100.BAT_.TXT' in the directory, so the toolkit used that name. I don't know why the toolkit's author chose to do this, but it doesn't do any harm. (I suppose I'll find out later that this is a handy thing.) Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn ----------------------------------------- This is the 'shortened' (SHN) file. As you can see, it is only 46% of the size of the original (54% compression). Pretty impressive, I'd say! Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.skt ----------------------------------------- According to the setup dialog (Options > Shorten...) this is the seek table file. I don't know what that is right now. Oh well. Next I tried expanding the SNM file so I can compare it to the original. After making a safty copy of my original WAV file, I dropped Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn onto the toolkit. The toolkit saved my original file as Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.wav.bak and created a new Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.wav. I did a binary comparison with the original and they matched, perfectly. Conclusion: 54% compression =========================== At least for this first experiment, WAV-to-SHN and SHN-to-WAV worked perfectly and SHN achieved a 54%, lossless compression. Hallelujah !! In the future I will try the other tools. I already use the Blade MP3 encoder, but I will try this .dll-based version to see if it is as good. I may also convert some MP3s to WAV using the toolkit -- something I heretofore have not been able to do. Overall this is a Godsend. As I wrote in an earlier posting, ZIP achieves only about 6% compression on WAV files. How SHN works must be a wonder. Ciao, and I hope you've found this useful -- Mark From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:09 pm Subject: SHN experiences, part 2 I took the 5 WAV files I ripped from 'Poland' (see, subject: 'EAC experiences') and compressed them. Input files: 239,421,884 Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .wav 168,144,524 Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .wav 42,618,284 Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .wav 191,307,020 Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .wav 95,989,868 Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .wav =========== 737,481,580 Output files: 135,503,193 Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .shn 93,065,621 Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .shn 26,416,409 Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .shn 102,039,069 Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .shn 46,272,213 Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .shn 187,132 Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .skt 131,452 Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .skt 33,372 Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .skt 149,532 Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .skt 75,052 Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .skt =========== 403,873,045 Compressed size: 54.8% Compression: 45.2% Based on this, I'd say we can safely count on putting 128 minutes of music onto a single 74 minute CDR, with a bit to spare. This would save the trunk and limbs and branches quite a few discs with no loss in fidelity. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31441 Re: SHN experiences, part 2 cbc_trooper Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31444 Re: SHN experiences, part 2 Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: 'Kevin Earley' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:07 pm Subject: [tree]SHN etc. I suggest that the use of the WAV format for the trunk of the tree would probably easier than the use of the SHN format. It should make life easier (K.I.S.S.) because 1 WAV disc corresponds to 1 audio disc. The downside is that each branch would need to make an audio copy for themselves for use on their CD Players. The advantage is that there is no risk of accidentally introducing errors from the Audio Extraction. An alternative would be to 'mandate' the use of programs like EAC to minimize the risk of any Audio Extraction errors. Just my two cents. Mark F.: IIRC the EAC documentation recommends that you take your extracted audio files and burn an audio CD with them. Then use EAC to extract from the new CDR and compare with the source files. Something to do with CD offsets that can introduce errors in either the extraction or the burning, I believe. Kevin Earley np: em:t - 1197 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31435 [tree]SHN etc. Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31446 Re: [tree]SHN etc. Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31454 Re: [tree]SHN etc. Thenite0wl@a... Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:10 pm Subject: [tree]SHN etc. Kevin Earley wrote: > -snip- > Mark F.: > IIRC the EAC documentation recommends that you take your extracted audio > files and burn an audio CD with them. Then use EAC to extract from the new > CDR and compare with the source files. Something to do with CD offsets that > can introduce errors in either the extraction or the burning, I believe. Thanks, Keven. That's good advice for those who are going to use redbook audio format in branches. For we who are going to use SHN, there's no problem. Unlike redbook, which is stream based, SHN (and WAV) is file based, so there is no extraction and much smaller chance for error -- no greater than for any other file, and which is covered by MD5 checksums in any event. If an error is found (the checksum is wrong), all a person need do is go back one branch to get a good copy. With redbook, you don't even know if there is an error, TTBOMK. Ciao -- Mark (who didn't know about SHN until a couple of days ago but has become a believer) From: scfeldman@j... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:00 am Subject: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak writes: >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. >Ciao -- Mark -- Steven Feldman , webmaster for the Chang Cheh website at http://changcheh.0catch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31438 Re: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connectio Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31440 Re: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connectio Heiko Heerssen Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31449 Re: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connectio 3N Wed 1/16/2002 4 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Someone asked me off list, what the heck are you trading? Well I traded 2 disk for every one I backed up for a friend. He needed his sound recording system backed up with all the originals he had. He did not have a system to do a external backup but audio only. He wanted all his software and settings backed up as well. Was a all weekend job. After the un-named person asked, I thought what they was trying to tell me. It sounded like I was pirating. Far from it. I seldom back up a audio disk that I own. Which I been thinking a lot lately after reading a post about cd thief. Sorry if I alarmed any others out there. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Admin' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER > Well this much I do know. > 1. I am sure I will be told what disks I will get to make the leaves from. > 2. I am sure the leaves will tell me what format they want. > 3. I am almost sure I will be looking around for the various programs to > make these copies as requested. > 4. My bottom line to me is, I will hear TD material that I have never heard > before and may never if it wasn't for this tree. > So you can debate the format till a certain place freezes over, still I wait > knowing that I will soon hear what I have not before. > > dale > > My disks of choice Joe is Maxell, Yamaha and Memorex. I would kill if I had > to use TDK. Why? Everytime I use a TDK I have to cut the speed down to half > the rated (8 speed records at 4 and on). I do own nearly 150 TDK disks now > so I believe I have some experience here when I say, TDK does not burn well > on my CDRecorder. Why do I have some many? Trade. So if you want to poke > some fun at me, send me a TDK disk. It is my lot in life you know! > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection scfeldman@j... wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak > writes: > > >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' > >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. Eh? Produce the proof, dear Steven. From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:32 pm Subject: Digesting a Digest... Mark said: > The only really good sampler to use is an outboard sampler, not a > card in a PC. > Take me word for it, use only an outboard sampler. If I understand, Heiko is using a standalone burner, which is the next best thing to an outboard A/D.... > If doing a rip, please use only DAE (direct audio extraction), > not CDR audio output sampling. If your CD does not support DAE, > then be a leaf, not a branch. Someone mentioned EAC, which should be used if you are a branch...I know it appears that we are trying to impose a whole lot of crap on people, but it is to try and ensure that the quality stays with the discs that reach the furtherest leaves. EAC may take a long time to rip if the media is damaged or the data is corrupt...but that is the benefit of EAC. Anytime I have a disc that I try to rip and EAC decides to go at 0.1x or whatever, I always burn a *new* copy for myself using grade A media. Trust me, media matters! Which leads to- The honorable Kevin J. spoke thusly: > If I'm not mistaken, all of these discs mentioned above are made in Taiwan > and are considered grade 'B' media. Having said that, my choice > of disc is > FUJI. Made in Japan and grade 'A'. > I (nor Kevin, I'm sure) want to sound like 'elitists', and I will not impose my beliefs or preferences on anyone, but I do have some experience and offer these references or ideas for you to use when making decisions. Just put it down as something to consider, then weigh it against what is important to you. Media does matter! All of the media thus far listed generally have the same manufacturer (RITEK) in Taiwan, that 'brands' the media under the names Memorex, Memtek, Sony, Maxell, TDK (except for 'Certified Plus'), Imation, Verbatim, Office Depot Brand, PNY, OfficeMax brand, as well as, most 'unbranded' cdr media. These are all considered 'low' quality, with the primary reason based on dye-type (which effects life span), cdr writer compatability, quality control (percent coasters per unit volume) and most importantly, the ability to be read when ripping without introducing errors. It is not a bias against any one of these, as I have tried most and have been mostly happy with the burn, but when I go back and try to rip a copy for a trade, I see lots of errors. Also, if you have cdr's from several years, chances are with the 'cheap' or 'low' quality media, it begins to bronze and will eventually not play and will be un-retrievable. This is all based on my experience and of course your mileage may vary... But, that said, there are several brands of media that are considered high quality...these are namely the ones manufactured in Japan (and USA). I don't know whether it is the different dyes used or the more stringent quality control of the Japanese plants, but it does make a difference. The major manufacurers are Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui. T-Y manufactures for the 'branded' HP, Fuji and some TDK's (if specifically stated 'made in Japan')...Mitsui's and T-Y's can be purchased on many sites on the web. Prices are typically a 'little' more expensive for a T-Y or Mitsui manufactured disc, but we are talking on the order of a few cents per disc. I recently stocked up on Fuji's from Circuit City in the US for $9.99 (after rebates) for a spindle of 50. Which is actually less expensive than the 'cheap' brands. But, like I said, it is *your* preference whether you want to take chances with *your* music...I personally prefer to spend a few more cents per disc and have documented quality. I usually will offer with my trade partners to burn on unbranded media if that is what they have, since I keep several brands 'in stock'. I would much rather do all my trading in HP/Fuji's but since I will have to reburn my personal copy to a different brand if I get a Verbatim/Maxell/etc., I think it is fair...I give my trade friends a choice. HP/Fuji (high quality) or Made in Taiwan (all the same...lower quality). So you think I am anal?? :-) I just would rather invest a little more now than alot later! Plus I want my music to last to the point that my kids are digging through my 'stuff' after I am gone and trying to decide which items head to the dump...<>...'...what in the HELL is this music??!!' Robert G. said: > You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats > and ways to > burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use > mp3. WTF?????? > I have one word for you folks: KISS > ...and now for Robert, I think the intention is to give some degree of choice in how you want it and what you do with it...nobody is trying to impose anything on anyone. We are just giving options to folks that are looking for different things...it all depends on what is valuable to you and what you are looking for. BTW, how's the weather down there?...it is still cold in ATL! Craig Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31442 Re: Digesting a Digest... Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection > > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > Eh? Produce the proof, dear Steven. From a 1982 Australian radio interview: Interviewer: 'Did the name Tangerine Dream originated from the Beatles' song 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds?' Edgar: 'That's correct' But I also remember another interview (1987, in German language) where Edgar stated that the name 'Tangerine Dream' had nothing to do with the Beatles song at all. For him the word 'Tangerine' (or orange-coloured) had a special meaning to him which he didn't want to reveal...it all sounded very vague. Heiko From: 'cbc_trooper' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:05 pm Subject: Re: SHN experiences, part 2 Mark...the .skt files are called 'seek' files and really only useful if you are playing .shn files in WinAmp on the PC. Excellent report to the group btw! HTH Craig From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digesting a Digest... 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > Mark said: > > > The only really good sampler to use is an outboard sampler, not a > > card in a PC. > > > Take me word for it, use only an outboard sampler. > > If I understand, Heiko is using a standalone burner, which is the next best > thing to an outboard A/D.... I was referring to a sampler: The device that converts audio to digital. Heiko's standalone burner is for making copies of CDs and CDRs that are already digital -- as opposed to copying with a computer. Heiko told me he doesn't do the sampling, but has friends do it for him. My point was that the samplers found on computer sound cards are not as good, and even high quality ones (some of the Turtle Beach units for example), suffer from noise introduced inside the computer case that the card cannot control. > > If doing a rip, please use only DAE (direct audio extraction), > > not CDR audio output sampling. If your CD does not support DAE, > > then be a leaf, not a branch. > > Someone mentioned EAC, which should be used if you are a branch...I know it > appears that we are trying to impose a whole lot of crap on people, but it > is to try and ensure that the quality stays with the discs that reach the > furtherest leaves. I just wrote a blurb on EAC (see, subject: EAC experiences). I'd never used it before, but it's dead simple. The point of using SHN (or WAV) as the branch media is that EAC would not be needed, but you are right that if redbook audio is used in a branch, it is probably better to rip it with EAC and burn than to make a dup -- at least, I think that's what you are saying. That way you will know whether there are errors. Of course, you could dup and then rip both the dup and the original and compare them, but that is twice the work. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name -- 'Marmalade skies' I could care less about the (non)connection to the beatles. I think 'Marmalade Skies' is cool because (if you happen to know the lyrics) your brain makes an immediate connection to 'Tangerine Trees'. This is a 'Tree', and for 'Tangerine' Dream music. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > What ?? Please. Let's not perpetuate this mythical connection > with The Beatles. It simply doesn't exist. From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN experiences, part 2 cbc_trooper wrote: > > Mark...the .skt files are called 'seek' files and really only useful > if you are playing .shn files in WinAmp on the PC. > > Excellent report to the group btw! Ah! Okay, that makes sense... 'seek'. Thanks for the complement. I wanted to show that EAC and SHN could be used by a novice without any problems as I felt some folks were a little shy of using them. I was amazed by EAC as it WAS fast for me (good quality CDs though -- I take care of them) and it ripped using DAE at higher speeds than even AudioCatalyst could achieve. EAC ripped at up to 13x whereas AudioCatalyst stayed below 8x because it encountered too many errors. BTW, I'm using a no-name DVD-ROM player. I'm impressed with both EAC and SHN, and they are both freeware. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:04 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Nigbur > 1) What will the tree contain? There seems to be some talk > about older concert recordings... see the updated concert 'pool' at http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#content > 2) Not having a CD-R burner, will it be possible for me to > join as a 'leaf' as long as I pay for the blank media? Absolutely. see http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#how > 3) Who is going to oversee the tree? I remember joining the last tape > tree on the old list and never seeing a single tape because the tree > ground to a halt before my branch even received his copy. I have a table of participants (see links) and on Feb 1, we will design and post the tree branch/leaf structure. We have a de facto 'Tree Structure Committee', and we're discussing the structure offlist, but it really isn't that complicated (list already sorted by geography). The tree diagram will be posted as soon as the structure is established, and on it I will be recording who all has received their copies from their branches on the web page. The entire tree will be monitored publicly (well, within our community), so I guess you could say that we are ALL going to oversee the tree. Due to this public visibility and accountability, if it becomes obvious that a branch is stuck, can't reproduce, whatever, we will be able to reroute the downline to someone else easily. We have a surplus of participants that are willing to branch, so some of these people will end up being leaves. They will be 'reserve branches' if needed, for example if a branch needs to be grafted. In other words, if you have committed to be a branch, and your computer dies before you complete your obligation, we can easily shift your branch duties to one of the reserve branches. And as for the confusion about all this format stuff, don't worry about it; trust us! ;-) We have it under control. It will all be clear Feb 1. From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:25 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree]SHN etc. jeez, you guys. All this talk of extraction and stuff... Complaints about it being too complicated... I'm just going to take my stack of 10-12 CDs, run DiscJuggler, making straight copy after copy until I'm done, and mail them off. What's so complicated about that? Extraction schmaction. bleah. From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:09 pm Subject: [tree] names well someone not on this list suggest a name in German for the tree Schnepfen Dreck Ok, so you may have spilt your coffee or not, but it does reflect the continuous snip hunt for HQ TD shows and is considered a tasty treat eventhough it may not be to everyone's liking...... --T OK, so maybe I wasn't serious :) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] names A rose is a rose by .. Call the tree one thing, leave off the art work or just have two copies of art work, one with and one without, for those who wish to name it what ever they will. Just make those masters and get them out. Heck you get bent out of shape on a tree name then perhaps you got more things to worry about than the tree. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'tei waz' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:09 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] names > well someone not on this list suggest a name in German for the tree > > Schnepfen Dreck > > > Ok, so you may have spilt your coffee or not, but it does reflect the > continuous snip hunt for HQ TD shows and is considered a tasty treat > eventhough it may not be to everyone's liking...... > > --T OK, so maybe I wasn't serious :) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: '3N' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection HeY! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak > writes: > > >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' > >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > >Ciao -- Mark > > -- Steven Feldman , > webmaster for the Chang Cheh website > at http://changcheh.0catch.com > Yes, Mark has right, Stev has right, but finally _I_ have right - the Eddy's band name is directly from the title of record from band of sixtieth years band named Caleidoscope. HaHaHaHA, mniam, mniam Regards JerzyK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sciaga, szkola, matura, STUDIA... >>> http://studia.interia.pl/ From: scfeldman@j... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:23 pm Subject: Alleged Lennon Comments on 'Lucy in the Sky' Hi All, With a google search on lucy sky diamonds tangerine dream, I found at http://www.johnlennon.it/thouart_alice_2_eng.htm : |'The images of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds were from Alice |in Wonderland. It was Alice in the boat. She is buying an |egg and it turns into Humpty Dumpty. The woman serving in |the shop turns into a sheep and the next minute they are |rowing in a rowing boat somewhere and I was visualizing |that. Picture yourself in a boat on a river with tangerine |dream and marmalade sky. There was also the image of the |female who would someday come save me -- a girl with |kaleidoscope eyes who would come out of the sky. It turned |out to be Yoko, though I hadn't met Yoko yet. So maybe it |should be Yoko in the Sky with Diamonds | |John Lennon Is the mention of 'tangerine dream' above a typo, I wonder?!?!?! There is an e-mail contact address given as mailto:thouart@t... at the top right of the page. At any rate, there is also the following, taken from http://www.upv.es/~ecabrera/pepper/article.html : |Julian Lennon, Johns son, had painted a picture of his |schoolmate Lucy, and he showed the picture to his father |after school one day. The picture intrigued John, and he |inquired after the title. Julian said, 'Its Lucy, in the |sky, with diamonds.' The title awakened Johns imagination |and prompted him to write the now-famous song (Turner 122). [the footnote's source is:] Turner, Steve. A Hard Day's Write. Harper Collins: New York, 1994. So, it seems that John Lennon's mouth (if not his memory) could be as contradictory as Edgar's. ;) Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: scfeldman@j... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:51 pm Subject: Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:33:04 -0500 Joe Shoults writes: >I think 'Marmalade Skies' is cool because (if you happen to >know the lyrics) your brain makes an immediate connection to >'Tangerine Trees'. This is a 'Tree', and for 'Tangerine' >Dream music. Yow! I hadn't thought it all out quite like that; you're right! Brilliant! :) Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31452 Re: Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' Yes, and Fish Heads was a wonderful song too. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: [tadream] Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:33:04 -0500 Joe Shoults > writes: > > >I think 'Marmalade Skies' is cool because (if you happen to > >know the lyrics) your brain makes an immediate connection to > >'Tangerine Trees'. This is a 'Tree', and for 'Tangerine' > >Dream music. > > Yow! I hadn't thought it all out quite like that; > you're right! Brilliant! :) > > Steven Feldman > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Craig Cordrey' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:22 pm Subject: RE: [tree] Red Book vs SHN Joe, Thanks for the feedback / clarification. Being on Digest (and not reading the mails until I get back home at night) I tend to be a bit behind and that was proved. The digest containing your mail to me also had previous mail stating that Red Book would be the standard format. Thanks for taking the time to clarify, especially at this hectic stage. All the best, Craig Cordrey From: Thenite0wl@a... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:26 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree]SHN etc. Hi,all... Might I be allowed to be a leaf on same tree, please..? Regards Paul From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:25 pm Subject: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read I'll try to summarize this so everyone understands why this subject is important to some people, like me. POOR ==== CD-audio to redbook - Analog disc copy using audio out of CD-ROM - Sound card errors. - Computer noise corrupts transfer. - No error information. - Leaves get the very worst copies. - Copying at more than 1x makes copies much worse. FAIR ==== redbook to redbook - Digital disc copy using DAE (direct audio extraction) - Prone to errors that get worse with each copy. - Little or no error information. - Leaves get the worst copies. - Copying at more than 1x makes copies even worse. BETTER ====== EAC (Exact Audio Copy) - 2 step process 1 - Rip WAV from redbook. - Using EAC you get some error information. - Rip at fairly high speed. 2 - Then, burn WAV back to redbook. BEST ==== SHN - like ZIP for audio - 1 step process - Burn direct to redbook - no ripping required. - Read SHN at very high speed, no problem. - Know when errors occur and how bad they are. - Fix errors before they propagate towards the leaves. - Every gets best quality possible, braches _and_ leaves. I downloaded EAC and SHN last night and used it right away -- very successfully. Read these reports (I spent a lot of time writing them): Subject: '[tadream] EAC experiences' Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:07:05 -0500 Subject: '[tadream] SHN experiences' Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:37:35 -0500 Subject: '[tadream] SHN experiences, part 2' Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:09:14 -0500 I'll send you the configuration files for these tools so you don't have to think about it. These tools are easy to use. It's drag & drop, done -- as easy as sending email. What's the big deal? -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31456 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31461 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31475 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Robert Grabowsky Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31477 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31500 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Matthew Sawyer Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31549 Re: [tree] regarding this tree TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31552 Re: regarding this tree TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31579 Re: [tree] regarding this tree ftsmythe Sat 1/19/2002 4 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:37 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read >>It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? next door Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:46 pm Subject: CDR recommendations How could I forget about Mitsui? Since the first time I heard about CDRs, I've heard Mitsui was the best media. It certainly still is one of the best, however it's the most expensive where I buy. But I'll use those for this tree. Now that it has been mentioned, I can't even see where the latest batch of Samsung CDs I bought (20) was made... hah! I think I'm being cheap... Since I now earn my own money, I could buy only Mitsui... I did use only Mistui some time ago, but it got quite expensive, and Kodak and TDK were significantly cheaper... I've rambled too much already. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31460 Re: CDR recommendations Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31463 Re: CDR recommendations Michael Fox Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:56 pm Subject: [tree] Why branches should want SHN You're a branch supplying 5 lower branches. What would you rather do: - rip copy 5 redbook discs at 1x or 2x, or - file copy 5 SHN discs at 40x? Your choise. -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31519 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31521 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31523 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31527 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31522 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31567 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Joe Shoults Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31569 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Joe Shoults Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:19 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please rea d > -----Original Message----- > SHN - like ZIP for audio - 1 step process > - Burn direct to redbook - no ripping required. > These tools are easy to use. It's drag & drop, done aha. this 'shn-direct-to-redbook' is news to me! If it really is that simple, then I might just forget about the redbook after all and just burn all from shn. Do I have to copy the shn files to my hard drive, then burn from there, or will it read from the shn CD to cache the data, then prompt you to insert the blank CD? > I'll send you the configuration files for these tools so you > don't have to think about it. Please upload them to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files Thx, Joe From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] CDR recommendations I have Mitsui, no label, Japan, and TDK, with label, Japan. I have tons of them. Both seem good to me. Don't know about Taiwan made CDRs. Heard they are not as good. -- Mark Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > How could I forget about Mitsui? Since the first time I heard about CDRs, I've heard Mitsui was the best media. It certainly still is one of the best, however it's the most expensive where I buy. But I'll use those for this tree. > > Now that it has been mentioned, I can't even see where the latest batch of Samsung CDs I bought (20) was made... hah! > > I think I'm being cheap... Since I now earn my own money, I could buy only Mitsui... I did use only Mistui some time ago, but it got quite expensive, and Kodak and TDK were significantly cheaper... I've rambled too much already. > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31463 Re: CDR recommendations Michael Fox Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read Joe Shoults wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > SHN - like ZIP for audio - 1 step process > > - Burn direct to redbook - no ripping required. > > These tools are easy to use. It's drag & drop, done > > aha. this 'shn-direct-to-redbook' is news to me! > > If it really is that simple, then I might just forget about the redbook > after all and just burn all from shn. > > Do I have to copy the shn files to my hard drive, then burn from there, or > will it read from the shn CD to cache the data, then prompt you to insert > the blank CD? I don't know whether there are tools to cache SHN. Point is: You can read them into your computer at 40x. They are files, not jittery streams like redbook. When something is cached, it's cached on the hard disk. Read files to hard disk - cache to hard disk. What's the difference? Read my next post, 'Why branches should want SHN' (already posted). Doing a SHN copy is literally drag-n-drop. Dead easy, and at full speed because you are copying files. The SHNs are converted to WAV, then to redbook only at the tips of the branches. Leaves get perfect copies -- no accumulated errors along the way. Everybody is very happy. The SHNers are right. It is the way to go. > > I'll send you the configuration files for these tools so you > > don't have to think about it. > > Please upload them to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files Okay. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31475 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Robert Grabowsky Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31477 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:21 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] tree Hi all, 99 messages in 1 day is a bit much, could this discussion be cut down in any way or redirected to more specific people rather than to the list? Sorry to be unsociable, it's just that work-related messages are in danger of disappearing under the deluge with that many messages a day... Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31464 Re: Re : [tadream] tree Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] CDR recommendations At 04:07 PM 01/16/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I have Mitsui, no label, Japan, and TDK, with label, Japan. I have tons of >them. Both seem good to me. Don't know about Taiwan made CDRs. Heard they >are not as good. -- Mark This seems to be the general consensus on other lists I'm on. I know I saw some little program that would tell you this when you popped a blank in. If I find the reference, I'll post it. Most of the time, the info can be found on the outside of the package somewhere. Mike From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:00 pm Subject: RE: Re : [tadream] tree the volume will die down after a bit, I'm sure. but in the meantime, you can do the following: 1) alter the way you recieve mails from the list a) switch to digest mode - click here: mailto:tadream-digest@yahoogroups.com b) turn all mail off - click here: mailto:tadream-nomail@yahoogroups.com c) turn delivery back to normal (individual message) mode - click here: mailto:tadream-normal@yahoogroups.com 2) Simply delete anything with 'tree' in the subject 3) use your e-mail client to filter anything with 'tree' in the subject > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Fellows [mailto:pfellows@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:22 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re : [tadream] tree > > > Hi all, > > 99 messages in 1 day is a bit much, could this discussion be > cut down in any > way or redirected to more specific people rather than to the list? > > Sorry to be unsociable, it's just that work-related messages > are in danger > of disappearing under the deluge with that many messages a day... > > Paul > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree Paul has brought a very good point. While the info given for the tree has been fruitful, it should be coming to a head. 99+ messages a day is a bit too much. Perhaps some personal post then a consensus post on the group? AKA Lobby... Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31466 Relayed Phases Steve Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: 'Steve' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:50 pm Subject: Relayed Phases Does anyone know the story behind this one? Steve www.craftman.co.uk www.rotties-r-us.co.uk From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree There have been 43 messages (counting yours) since midnight US Eastern Standard Time. This message makes 44. 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > Paul has brought a very good point. While the info given for the tree has > been fruitful, it should be coming to a head. 99+ messages a day is a bit > too much. Perhaps some personal post then a consensus post on the group? AKA > Lobby... > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: '3N' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] All true about Torwar shows ;)) Hello Mark and all! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Filipak To: Tadream Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: [tadream] EAC experiences ThanX for you big work, but: > The show was supposedly interrupted five times by power failures, as > indicated by some of the breaks above. It's really??? From whwere do you know about this?? I was 12dec83 on both shows in warsaw'sTorwar (I have they for this day in my tape, and now cdr-, archive) but I hear this for first time!!! I see that Warsaws concert is today a big legend. > Since many bridges were dubbed > after the show to bridge over breaks caused by power failures, further > time indexing to what was actually performed is not possible. Very interesting, but you're wrong. Most of the bridges on official release was played on 'real' hands, but most of the sequences look from further reediting in AmberStudio in early84 by Franke/Schmoelling (I have official interview with Froese (december84) in this he that said!). > Further, > The actual order of segments is unknown. Oh, nooo! It's of course known. The whole first analog record (without RareBird, wich was the last encore on second show) is exactly adequate to the actual order of first part of both shows. The second analog record is very schuffling in order and, I'm convinced, it wasn't played on warsaws concerts. Some parts (like about half part of Barbakene) I heard for first time only on official release (Tonpress84) and others was played on Torwar totally different from the official record. Why? I don't know but certainly not from 'energy breaks', which wasn't there ;)))). And maybe members played with the gloves on hands??? It's a big joke. Frost? Of course, it was in december, and it was about -3 celsjus... outside, no more. In hall temperature was normal. All the fictitious history. Nothing more. End. Dot. regards from 'frozen' poland JerzyK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Czy widziales juz najnowsze wiadomosci? >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31469 Re: All true about Torwar shows ;)) Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 4 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] All true about Torwar shows ;)) Where have you been all my (tadream) life !!!!!! I want it all. All the information you can give me. 3N wrote: > > Hello Mark and all! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Filipak > To: Tadream > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:07 AM > Subject: [tadream] EAC experiences > > ThanX for you big work, but: > > > The show was supposedly interrupted five times by power failures, as > > indicated by some of the breaks above. > > It's really??? From whwere do you know about this?? What I was told by folks in Poland. It's not correct? > I was 12dec83 on both shows in warsaw'sTorwar THERE WERE TWO SHOWS(?)!! > (I have they for this day in > my tape, and now cdr-, archive) but I hear this for first time!!! I see that > Warsaws concert is today a big legend. On CDR, eh? Care to make a copy? I don't care about quality, just timing. (Well, that's a lie. I love this show.) I wish my grandfather had stayed in Poland for this show. > > Since many bridges were dubbed > > after the show to bridge over breaks caused by power failures, further > > time indexing to what was actually performed is not possible. > > Very interesting, but you're wrong. Ho-boy! > Most of the bridges on official release > was played on 'real' hands, but most of the sequences look from further > reediting in AmberStudio in early84 by Franke/Schmoelling (I have official > interview with Froese (december84) in this he that said!). Jerzy!! You can be very helpful to all dreamers! > > Further, > > The actual order of segments is unknown. > > Oh, nooo! It's of course known. The whole first analog record (without > RareBird, wich was the last encore on second show) is exactly adequate to > the actual order of first part of both shows. The second analog record is > very schuffling in order and, I'm convinced, it wasn't played on warsaws > concerts. Some parts (like about half part of Barbakene) I heard for first > time only on official release (Tonpress84) and others was played on Torwar > totally different from the official record. Why? I don't know but certainly > not from 'energy breaks', which wasn't there ;)))). If you can even send me a tape, I could get timing and sequence from it. A CDR would be better/easier as I could read the counter (directly in seconds). > And maybe members played with the gloves on hands??? It's a big joke. Frost? > Of course, it was in december, and it was about -3 celsjus... outside, no > more. In hall temperature was normal. All the fictitious history. Nothing > more. End. Dot. Well I'll be damned. You wouldn't believe the number of hours I spent working out the ~crap~ I have... What about the translation? > regards from 'frozen' poland > JerzyK Ciao and regards from frozen Ohio -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: 'PERGAMON' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:38 pm Subject: Tree-name Name for the tree......................Why not: DOT.....................Dream Of Tapes.............. =o)............hehe.........just a suggestion Jan From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:55 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Traummeister How about Traummeister? -- Mark PERGAMON wrote: > > Name for the tree......................Why not: > > DOT.....................Dream Of Tapes.............. > > =o)............hehe.........just a suggestion > > Jan -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: 'vic rek' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 11:58 pm Subject: [tadream] [tree] KISS I am going to make some possibly ignorant statements here - but I'm not asking to be corrected. Based on all the e-mail I've read on this subject and all the pros and cons, I believe many are missing one simple point (like Bob said) KISS - Keep It Simple and Stupid. The current discussion and scope of effort will lead to a failure of this effort. I have never seen so much discussion on losing data bits that most likely you'll never hear anyway. I have never seen so many opinions about which CD-Rs brands from which country to use. Are we trying to creat the perfect state-of-the-art CD or are we trying to share music amongst the fans? Here are Vic's KISS rules: Set up a simple tree structure. Send out the music and make the artwork downloadable. And forget it. Every extra step (or rule) you add to the process (no matter how trivial you may feel it is) will add to the probability of failure. Simple questions (Q) and answers (A) to technical problems that may arise: Q1a: If I get a CD from a branch that has a bit error in it, what should I do A: Nothing. Q1b: But my copy must be digitally perfect! A: Find someone who has the missing bit (assuming the original was 'perfect'). Q2: I do not like the CD media that was sent to me. A: Make another copy for yourself on your preferred media. Q3: Why is Vic being technically ignorant. A: So some people on this list would recongize the human element of this effort. Remember the days of the tape trees when the benefit of being higher in the tree was to get a better copy? What is the benefit now for the trunk? Good Samaritan status I guess. :-) BTW, I'm sorry, but sending blank CD-Rs in the mail is STUPID (not part of the KISS principle). So how do you reimburse your branch without sending money? Oh, that's right, CD-Rs & postage are not money - sorry. Some concerns I have: - Is Heiko going to supply approximately 46 concerts to the list subscribers with most concerts being double CD-Rs? How many discs total will that be Heiko? And how many CD-Rs will you be receiving in the mail? - What if someone joins this list later and wants to trade? - Why are we planning to trade so many concerts? I think TDI would get nervous here. - I'm afraid a monster is being created here and I cannot see the effort being sustained (I hope I'm proved wrong). A new tree should be created for every few releases, but you know that any current tree structure will not keep its integrity for long. So what happened to the good 'ole days of trading? I guess now everyone will have plenty of material to trade, so we'll hear no more excuses - I look forward to this! ;-) Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Shoults To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree]SHN etc. > jeez, you guys. > > All this talk of extraction and stuff... Complaints about it being too > complicated... > > I'm just going to take my stack of 10-12 CDs, run DiscJuggler, making > straight copy after copy until I'm done, and mail them off. What's so > complicated about that? > > Extraction schmaction. bleah. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31476 Re: [tree] KISS C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 7 KB 31479 Re: [tree] KISS vic rek Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31484 [tree] KISS Heiko Heerssen Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31492 Re: [tree] KISS vic rek Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31494 Re: [tree] KISS Heiko Heerssen Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31496 Re: [tree] KISS vic rek Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31497 Re: [tree] KISS tei waz Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB 31511 Who's vault is it anyway? airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31518 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:23 am Subject: [tree] Why leaves should want SHN The quality of your copy would ordinarily depend on how far out on your branch you are. Some leaves would get lower generation product while other leaves would get a higher generation copy. If using SHN guarantees leaves that they will get no worse than 2nd generation, and it doesn't entail any extra expense, why not? You're going to get standard redbook audio that will play anywhere (or SHN if that's what you want), so why would any leaf say no? Think about it. -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31493 Re: [tree] Why leaves should want SHN John McIntyre Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31495 Re: [tree] Why leaves should want SHN 3N Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:45 am Subject: [tree] shades of orange >Are we trying to creat the perfect state-of-the-art CD or are we trying to share music amongst the fans? Why expect these to be mutually exclusive? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 1:16 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read WHY?????Why rip anything from one CD to another??????? EZ CD Creator has CD Copier which copies exactly from one disc to another and also uses DAO. It also comes with alot of CD burners. You don't need WAV files You don't need MP3 and You don't need SHN. Also if you do rip an audio CD to your hard drive and it has more than one track you will have a tiny glitch unless you put it back together with SoundForge or something similar even if you use DAO. Just put the disc in your CD-ROM and a blank CD in your burn start the program hit your settings and push the copy button. No problems. Lets just get through this as easy as possible. Robert Craig: Send me some snow this way. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31477 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:06 am Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] KISS > I am going to make some possibly ignorant statements here - but I'm not > asking to be corrected. Hehe! Vic, my man...do you think that just by saying you do not want to be corrected gives you a bye? > Based on all the e-mail I've read on this subject and all the > pros and cons, > I believe many are missing one simple point (like Bob said) KISS - Keep It > Simple and Stupid. > > The current discussion and scope of effort will lead to a failure of this > effort. No! The current discussion has enlightened several folks that just two days ago were ignorant of the benefits of going with SHN. One day you will be enlightened too :-) Maybe not now, but sooner or later...you'll come around. But really, I think the whole thing is that SHN is really much more simple than trading audio CD's. It really is, once you load the software, it is a piece of cake...drag and drop. Easier than you replying to this post! And it is free, developed by traders for traders, with two primary intentions 1) Make traders' lives easier (and mailing cd's cheaper) and 2) Preserving the quality from trunk to leaf, and for posterity for those that care. As a leaf, I would seriously opt for a shn branch...you will rule out all the sources of data corruption throughout the treeing process and end up with a perfect copy. If you decide you want to stay on audio only, then, well take your chances...and keep it simple, stupid. > I have never seen so much discussion on losing data bits that most likely > you'll never hear anyway. I have never seen so many opinions about which > CD-Rs brands from which country to use. Are we trying to creat > the perfect > state-of-the-art CD or are we trying to share music amongst the fans? Vic, you miss the point...if there was no option *but* to lose bits, then why sweat it. But you don't have to lose bits...you can create *perfect* copies not *almost perfect* copies that are imperceptible. On cdr's that will last more than a few years too! > Here are Vic's KISS rules: > Set up a simple tree structure. > Send out the music and make the artwork downloadable. > And forget it. I would agree with the simple modification: 'send out the music with the option of assuring quality for those that want it...' > Every extra step (or rule) you add to the process (no matter how > trivial you > may feel it is) will add to the probability of failure. These are not rules...they are options, Joe has stated several times the defacto is redbook...I think what Mark and others are proponents of is to selfishly try and convince as many people as possible (especially branches) that if they want to assure quality, reduce costs, reduce burn time turnaround, and altogether have a much happier experience. They do not have to present it this way, they could just say 'whatever...I got mine right' but I think Mark is seriously trying to help people see that it is a GOOD thing to get a good copy as far down the tree lines as possible. > > Simple questions (Q) and answers (A) to technical problems that may arise: > > Q1a: If I get a CD from a branch that has a bit error in it, what should I > do > A: Nothing. > Q1b: But my copy must be digitally perfect! > A: Find someone who has the missing bit (assuming the original was > 'perfect'). This question doesn't even have to exist in the real world... > > Q2: I do not like the CD media that was sent to me. > A: Make another copy for yourself on your preferred media. Agreed...what is the problem there. That is exactly what I would (and 'do') do. We all have preferences...but, if you agree on it with your trade partner before hand, and they think that media quality is a valid concern, then this one doesn't have to exist either. > Q3: Why is Vic being technically ignorant. > A: So some people on this list would recongize the human element of this > effort. Because he's pissed at me for dragging my feet on a certain 'project'?? > Remember the days of the tape trees when the benefit of being > higher in the > tree was to get a better copy? What is the benefit now for the > trunk? Good > Samaritan status I guess. :-) BTW, I'm sorry, but sending blank CD-Rs in > the mail is STUPID (not part of the KISS principle). So how do you > reimburse your branch without sending money? Oh, that's right, CD-Rs & > postage are not money - sorry. Yeah, the trunk becomes the legend of the group for his awesome display of humanity. But as far as reimbursing your branch, I think you would want to trade something from your 'live' boot collection to them as opposed to being expected to send blanks and postage. I think most people prefer to get music in return for their efforts...so I want you below me! But you gotta agree to get your copy in either SHN or audio from SHN...don't be afraid, you can do it...it is an easy step to make and will open up a whole new world of possibilities...okay, bs is getting a little thick there, huh? But seriously folks, it is a choice...we are not trying to hijack the tree. Just trying to offer up information so that you can make a choice. Hopefully, all of this will die soon...I will try to refrain from discussion on this anymore. Vic...I still luv ya man. Craig From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:14 am Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read > WHY?????Why rip anything from one CD to another??????? > > EZ CD Creator has CD Copier which copies exactly from one disc to another > and also uses DAO. > It also comes with alot of CD burners. Robert, what do you think CD copier does? It rips to the harddrive then on the fly burns to CDR then deletes the remnants from your harddrive...just because it is one click doesn't mean it goes straight from CD to CDR...it still has to traverse the whole procedure, it just shields it from your eyes. > Also if you do rip an audio CD to your hard drive and it has more than > one track you will have a tiny glitch unless you put it back together with > SoundForge or something similar even if you use DAO. Not necessarily...maybe that depends on your software. > Just put the disc in your CD-ROM and a blank CD in your burn start the > program hit your settings and push the copy button. No problems. Actually, your chances for problems are dramatically higher... > Lets just get through this as easy as possible. I am easy...easy as Sunday morning... > Craig: Send me some snow this way. Snows gone, but you can have some of this crappy windy cold stuff! Where is El Nino when you need it? From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:53 am Subject: SHN compression -- how does it work? Does anyone know how SHN compression works? After all a 40%-50% reduction in .WAV file size seems a lot WITHOUT APPARENTLY LOSING ANY DATA -- or does that REALLY mean INAUDIBLE loss? Apparently ZIP files only manage a 9% reduction in .WAV file size. I presume we are not talking about a system that attenuates or eliminates low-level sounds when they coexist with higher-level ones, so I'm interested in some explanation about it. Call me a 'Doubting Thomas' but I'm suspicious about any claims that associate a lossless compression format with audio when appreciable file size reduction is involved. At least we know where we stand with MP3 -- like it or not! Incidentally, I went to that Hamilton web-site to find out more about SHN files but didn't gain much from the article there. I haven't looked further so far. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31480 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Mark Filipak Thu 1/17/2002 6 KB 31481 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Mark Filipak Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB 31505 Interesting mention Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31482 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Admin Thu 1/17/2002 5 KB 31501 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Joe Shoults Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31503 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? maggior@m... Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31506 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Matthew Sawyer Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31508 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31512 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? maggior@m... Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > Because he's pissed at me for dragging my feet on a certain 'project'?? Well Craig, I'm glad that my post wasn't a waste - you read it perfectly :-) I guess I'll come around someday - but since most likely I'll be a leaf in your branch (and not even have to pay for postage), I'll have to accept what you hand to me - even if it's in perfect quality! I just SHuN the idea and scream HIJACK! Vic From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 4:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? My experiences ============== John, I don't know HOW it works but I do know THAT it works. I SHN compressed 'Vision Quest' and then the entire 'Poland' double CD album. Then I SHN uncompressed them and performed a binary, bit for bit comparison. The uncompressed audio was identical to the audio that had never been compressed -- bit for bit perfect. That's when I turned around and became a SHN advocate -- please check my many posts to see when this happened. I'm a hardware engineer, but I'm very familiar with compression technology and with encryption technology. I consider SHN to be nothing short of amazing... truly awesome. My fourier transform self insists that it must be doing SOME sort of frequency compression, but it really is a mystery to me, as lossless frequency compression must be very difficult BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. There's some special sauce in SHN. Bit perfect = lossless = total fidelity ======================================= What this means: With no binary bit loss, there is no sound loss at all. Not at any frequency or for any sample. There is no frequency masking or filtering going on. There cannot be any such funny business going on or the round trip binary compare would not compare. It's like turning a Rembrandt painting into a paint by numbers painting and then not being able to tell the difference at either the visual level or at the microscopic level. SHN is bit perfect compression and I don't know how it does it. Future research =============== But my curiosity is tweaked and I'm going to find out. I'm pretty sure SHN must be doing some sort of discrete fourier analysis. But just because I don't know how it works now, I'm not dissuaded from using it after my experiments. After all, other people and other trees have used it extensively and according to Craig, have always had perfect results. I believe that. MD5 checksum ============ Remember also that the compression is also MD5 checksummed. MD5 (message digest method 5) is straight out of RSA encryption and you can't fool it. If there is an error from one rip to the next or from one branch to the following branch, the MD5 would indicate that there is an error, without respect to any audible trickery that SHN might try to do. As a test, I SHNed several times (remember, I have 3 copies of 'Poland' double CD) and I got identical MD5s each time even though you might think that the pressing plant just couldn't have made 3 indentical CDs -- that's digital for you. SHN really is the ZIP of audio. (In the foregoing test using 3 different disks, remember that I used EAC to do the ripping and it reported no errors and 100% accuracy for each -- if one of the discs had been scratched, that probably wouldn't have happened as CDROM hardware error correction is not always perfect.) BTW, check out the security certificates that your browser uses. You'll see MD5 there al! so. I hope this has helped you. I appologize for the verbose answer, but I feel this is important to both branches and leaves. File copies are much faster than rips, so branches will benefit, and MD5 assures that leaves will get bit perfect copies no matter how far out from the trunk they are. Ciao -- Mark John Marchington wrote: > > Does anyone know how SHN compression works? After all a 40%-50% reduction in .WAV file size seems a lot WITHOUT APPARENTLY LOSING ANY DATA -- or does that REALLY mean INAUDIBLE loss? Apparently ZIP files only manage a 9% reduction in .WAV file size. I presume we are not talking about a system that attenuates or eliminates low-level sounds when they coexist with higher-level ones, so I'm interested in some explanation about it. Call me a 'Doubting Thomas' but I'm suspicious about any claims that associate a lossless compression format with audio when appreciable file size reduction is involved. At least we know where we stand with MP3 -- like it or not! > > Incidentally, I went to that Hamilton web-site to find out more about SHN files but didn't gain much from the article there. I haven't looked further so far. From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? And did I say SHNing is dead easy. Just open Windows Explorer, select a group of WAV files, drag-n-drop them on the toolkit sitting on the desktop, and **bam** they're SHNed. Then use any CD writer, like EZ CD Creator, to do a file copy to the target CDROM at maximum speed, not audio speed. Once SHNed, making a dup is simply copying files. No ripping and no converting. Just check the MD5 to see if there were any errors during copying -- not likely. Maybe it would be helpful to understand the difference between file copy and redbook audio copy, eh? Files are stored in concentric rings, just like on a hard drive. Once the CDROM has seeked to the desired track, sectors are read (or written) to fill out the track and the laser is stepped to the next track. It's very accurate and there's a very low chance of jitter. Redbook audio, on the other hand, is recorded as one continuous spiral from the center of the disk, out -- just like a vinyl record but inside to outside. An accurate seek must find the proper place on that spiral and then track it as it spirals out. The tracking mechanism exhibits what is known as 'hunting'. All mechanical and all analog electrical systems exhibit the 'hunting' phenomenon. As the 'hunt' for the track proceeds, jitter is produced that CAN, and often DOES produce data errors. If those errors are slight (i.e., if the 'hunting' is not too severe), then the drive's error correction can compensate for it. But the drive's ability to correct is very drive- and temperture- and wear- and... etc., etc. ... dependent. Audio uses it because the 'groove' following algorithm is easy to implement and any uncorrectable errors will most likely not be audible enough to be noticed. This is not true of file mode as 'hunting' does not occur -- a sufficient settling time before a track is read or written is built in. In other words, in file writing and reading, the laser doesn't have to also simultaneously track a spiral. With a spiral (redbook), copies of copies of copies can get progressively worse due to bit errors resulting from jitter. Also, seeking to a point on a spiral is much harder and more error prone than seeking to a concentric circle. That's why the actual point on the spiral that is reached can be off quite a bit. In one copy, your ear will not hear the error. In the 5th copy, it is very likely you will hear it. Again, I appologize for being verbose. Must be in my nature. :-) -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31505 Interesting mention Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:39 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? To SHN or not to SHN... I say do what ever it takes. Make them both available. Let the leaves ask. I do know that I will be hunting down a SHN program. Joe had it right, he did say he most likely do both for his own use. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? > And did I say SHNing is dead easy. Just open Windows Explorer, select a group of WAV files, drag-n-drop them on the toolkit sitting on the desktop, and **bam** they're SHNed. Then use any CD writer, like EZ CD Creator, to do a file copy to the target CDROM at maximum speed, not audio speed. > > Once SHNed, making a dup is simply copying files. No ripping and no converting. Just check the MD5 to see if there were any errors during copying -- not likely. > > Maybe it would be helpful to understand the difference between file copy and redbook audio copy, eh? > > Files are stored in concentric rings, just like on a hard drive. Once the CDROM has seeked to the desired track, sectors are read (or written) to fill out the track and the laser is stepped to the next track. It's very accurate and there's a very low chance of jitter. > > Redbook audio, on the other hand, is recorded as one continuous spiral from the center of the disk, out -- just like a vinyl record but inside to outside. An accurate seek must find the proper place on that spiral and then track it as it spirals out. The tracking mechanism exhibits what is known as 'hunting'. All mechanical and all analog electrical systems exhibit the 'hunting' phenomenon. As the 'hunt' for the track proceeds, jitter is produced that CAN, and often DOES produce data errors. If those errors are slight (i.e., if the 'hunting' is not too severe), then the drive's error correction can compensate for it. But the drive's ability to correct is very drive- and temperture- and wear- and... etc., etc. ... dependent. Audio uses it because the 'groove' following algorithm is easy to implement and any uncorrectable errors will most likely not be audible enough to be noticed. > > This is not true of file mode as 'hunting' does not occur -- a sufficient settling time before a track is read or written is built in. In other words, in file writing and reading, the laser doesn't have to also simultaneously track a spiral. With a spiral (redbook), copies of copies of copies can get progressively worse due to bit errors resulting from jitter. Also, seeking to a point on a spiral is much harder and more error prone than seeking to a concentric circle. That's why the actual point on the spiral that is reached can be off quite a bit. In one copy, your ear will not hear the error. In the 5th copy, it is very likely you will hear it. > > Again, I appologize for being verbose. Must be in my nature. :-) > > -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:50 am Subject: Goettsching Interview , please read this first !!! Hi all, following messages arrived me this morning, I hope that one can help me. PLEASE RECORDED THIS FOR ME: AND LET KNOW, when you have it. CONTACT PLEASE OFF-LIST . Many thankx. here the message: Manuel Göttsching special on Detroit radio station The Detroit radio station WDET-FM will broadcast a radio special on Thursday, 17 January 2001 at midnight until 2 am Eastern Time. Host Liz Copeland writes about this programme: 'Volume 17 of the series, airing January 17th, features the Germany's Manuel Göttsching and Ash Ra Tempel. Forging electronic instrumentation and effects with the guitar since the early '70s, Göttsching (both through his solo projects and through Ash Ra Tempel) helped pave the way for electronic music's entry.' Regards heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31491 Re: Goettsching Interview , please read this firs atye@a... Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 7:27 am Subject: [tree] KISS > Some concerns I have: > - Is Heiko going to supply approximately 46 concerts to the list subscribers > with most concerts being double CD-Rs? How many discs total will that be > Heiko? And how many CD-Rs will you be receiving in the mail? Hello Vic (& others), the list of concerts (which you can see at 'http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#content') hasn't been carved in stone yet, it may well be that some of the concerts will not be used. But most of the concerts do not overlap with what has already been used for the first 'Digital tape tree' series. > - I'm afraid a monster is being created here and I cannot see the effort > being sustained (I hope I'm proved wrong). Well Vic, since you already belong to the 'big ones' in terms of collecting live material I can only repeat Edgar's wise comment: if you don't want it, don't buy it. P*ssed off Heiko From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:31 am Subject: [tree] audio extraction/on the fly copying Gents, a few complaints have come up that audio extraction with the likes of EAC would complicate things unnecessary. I had to learn better the hard way, and I think I can make my point with an example quite well spread among concert collectors: The Mannheim and Saarbruecken 1976 concerts that surfaced a good year ago. The CDRs are full of dropouts, every copy around. This was because of undetected errors during on-the-fly copying at the original source. The master tapes sound great and are in good hands now, so we may see a much better version around soon. Don't you screw it up when making copies ;-) cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31487 Re: [tree] audio extraction/on the fly copying Heiko Heerssen Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:39 am Subject: Some SHN compression figures comparison Hi! I extracted my CDR:s that contain SHN packed stuff. Here's the result: First is name, then total time of the audio, then SHN compressed size, then WAV size and last is compressed size ratio. The last line shows also how much size the audio format would take. ---> In wav format that wouldn't fit into one disc but in SHN it would. So Wav-files are not saving any space, but they use even more space. You cannot fit WAV data from full audio-disc into one CDR. That's why SHN is the right format for data. How much space is actually saved using audio or SHN must be checked between size of audio <--> SHN, not WAV <--> SHN. One row is one CDR, except the two first are in same disc (Aachen + StarClub). Amount of MB:s is taken from explorer's botton bar. Name: time: shn: wav: % audio % Ok, these are pink floyd stuff: mm:ss MB MB Aachen 86:47 418 875 47,77 StarClub 36:12 190 365 52,05 69.09.17 -complete concertgebouw 81:29 446 823 54,19 Now And Forever, CD1 65:04 425 657 64,69 Now And Forever, CD2 54:11 363 547 66,36 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc1 60:30 362 610 59,34 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc2 66:49 384 677 56,72 Meddled 64:36 402 651 61,75 The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes 93:17 425 942 45,12 Stellar Symphony CD 1 67:12 442 679 65,10 Stellar Symphony CD 2 63:47 407 644 63,20 Those were the days 111:13 517 1090 47,43 A Passage Of Time, Disc1 73:53 476 746 63,81 653 72,89 total: 5257 9306 56,49 And here's more detailed information from two extracted discs. -------------------------------- In SHN: 01GRAN~6 SHN 42 673 301 22.08.01 20.00 01 Grantchester Meadows.shn 02ASTR~8 SHN 69 040 921 22.08.01 20.00 02 Astronomy Domine.shn 03CYM~10 SHN 69 797 401 22.08.01 20.00 03 Cymbaline.shn 04ATO~12 SHN 123 797 661 22.08.01 20.00 04 Atom Heart Mother.shn 05EMB~14 SHN 74 384 929 22.08.01 20.00 05 Embryo.shn In WAV: 01GRAN~1 WAV 74 229 164 16.01.02 20.58 01 Grantchester Meadows.wav 02ASTR~1 WAV 109 226 924 16.01.02 20.59 02 Astronomy Domine.wav 03CYMB~1 WAV 121 255 052 16.01.02 21.00 03 Cymbaline.wav 04ATOM~1 WAV 215 415 020 16.01.02 21.02 04 Atom Heart Mother.wav 05EMBR~1 WAV 120 493 004 16.01.02 21.03 05 Embryo.wav -------------------------------- -------------------------------- In SHN: 06GREE~6 SHN 27 055 157 22.08.01 20.00 06 Green Is The Colour.shn 07CARE~8 SHN 72 591 549 22.08.01 20.00 07 Careful With That Axe, Eugene.shn 08SET~10 SHN 72 571 229 22.08.01 20.00 08 Set The Controls.shn 09ASA~12 SHN 139 332 405 22.08.01 20.00 09 A Saucerful of Secrets.shn 10INT~14 SHN 91 345 573 22.08.01 20.00 10 Interstellar Overdrive.shn In WAV: 06GREE~1 WAV 48 622 940 16.01.02 20.38 06 Green Is The Colour.wav 07CARE~1 WAV 121 299 740 16.01.02 20.39 07 Careful With That Axe, Eugene.wav 08SETT~1 WAV 135 341 180 16.01.02 20.40 08 Set The Controls.wav 09ASAU~1 WAV 240 430 892 16.01.02 20.42 09 A Saucerful of Secrets.wav 10INTE~1 WAV 165 195 116 16.01.02 20.44 10 Interstellar Overdrive.wav -------------------------------- Yes, you can see that some of the discs didn't actually save the amount of CDR:s. One audio-format disc fit only into one CDR in SHN-format. Regards, timo From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:43 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] audio extraction/on the fly copying > The Mannheim and Saarbruecken 1976 concerts that surfaced > a good year ago. > The master tapes sound great and are in good hands now, > so we may see a much better version around soon. Don't > you screw it up when making copies ;-) The Mannheim & Saarbrücken 76 shows are being remastered at the moment (my 'source' is working with the original master tapes right now), and he told me that they will go down in TD history. They will hopefully be included in the 2nd batch of concerts. Heiko From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:44 am Subject: [tree] CDR brands >I know I saw some little program that would tell you this when you >popped a blank in. CDR Identifier does this. You can find it at www.brennmeister.com under 'Quick Downloads' You'll be surprised to find out how many 'brand name' CDRs come out of the same two plants in Taiwan ;-) cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31907 Re: [tree] CDR brands Mark Filipak Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31909 Re: [tree] CDR brands C. Chambers Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31915 CDR brands / what's good for trading ? braddito Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31927 Re: CDR brands /Kodak Rolf Elfström Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31920 [tree] CDR brands Mark Filipak Tue 2/5/2002 5 KB 31926 Re: [tree] CDR brands Rolf Elfström Tue 2/5/2002 4 KB 31929 Re: [tree] CDR brands Matthew Sawyer Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:54 am Subject: Again SHN compression comparison Damn, it removed the tabs, so here is the list hopefully in more readable format. regards, timo Name: time: shn: wav: % audio % Ok, these are pink floyd stuff: mm:ss MB MB Aachen 86:47 418 875 47,77 StarClub 36:12 190 365 52,05 69.09.17 -complete concertgebouw 81:29 446 823 54,19 Now And Forever, CD1 65:04 425 657 64,69 Now And Forever, CD2 54:11 363 547 66,36 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc1 60:30 362 610 59,34 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc2 66:49 384 677 56,72 Meddled 64:36 402 651 61,75 The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes 93:17 425 942 45,12 Stellar Symphony CD 1 67:12 442 679 65,10 Stellar Symphony CD 2 63:47 407 644 63,20 Those were the days 111:13 517 1090 47,43 A Passage Of Time, Disc1 73:53 476 746 63,81 653 72,89 total: 5257 9306 56,49 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31490 Own-Re: Again SHN compression comparison rtol008 Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:08 am Subject: Own-Re: Again SHN compression comparison Damn, damn, damn, what I'm doing wrong? I can't see the spaces nor can I see the tabs. Still the spaces are visible in this posting window. -timo- --- In tadream@y..., 'rtol008' wrote: > Damn, it removed the tabs, so here is the list hopefully in more > readable format. > > regards, timo > > Name: time: shn: wav: % > audio % > Ok, these are pink floyd stuff: mm:ss MB MB > Aachen 86:47 418 875 47,77 > StarClub 36:12 190 365 52,05 > 69.09.17 -complete concertgebouw 81:29 446 823 54,19 > Now And Forever, CD1 65:04 425 657 64,69 > Now And Forever, CD2 54:11 363 547 66,36 > Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc1 60:30 362 610 59,34 > Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc2 66:49 384 677 56,72 > Meddled 64:36 402 651 61,75 > The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes 93:17 425 942 45,12 > Stellar Symphony CD 1 67:12 442 679 65,10 > Stellar Symphony CD 2 63:47 407 644 63,20 > Those were the days 111:13 517 1090 47,43 > A Passage Of Time, Disc1 73:53 476 746 63,81 > 653 72,89 > > total: 5257 9306 56,49 From: atye@a... Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Goettsching Interview , please read this first !!! I just looked, and that station seems to be broadcasting live on the web. http://www.wdetfm.org/content/listen_live.php ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'vic rek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > Well Vic, since you already belong to the 'big ones' in terms of collecting live > material I can only repeat Edgar's wise comment: if you don't want it, don't buy > it. > > P*ssed off Heiko Hmm, I didn't realize we are allowed to BUY something in this tree? ;-) The way the tree reads now is that I sit back as a leaf and just yell GIMME GIMME!! Even though this list hasn't discussed which concerts would be appropriate to release that are of some significance, which concerts we would like to get, which concerts are not already widely distributed, etc. We just said that we are 'greedy' and Heiko said that he would kindly volunteer to fill out greed. Heiko - restraint yourself of such unnecessary kindness. ;-) Like I said earlier, that I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this project. I believe that only certain significant representative concerts should be selected and that this should be over time with different fans acting as trunks. The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... So!, I'm going to go out today and buy my 100 CD-R spindle for $30 and send it media mail rate to my branch and just sit back and wait for about 50 high quality 'error-free' concerts to arrive at my doorstep. This is almost as good as the $600 tax refund check that George Bush sent me! I hope you read all the sarcasm in this post and don't take it lliterally... but think about it. Vic From: John McIntyre Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Why leaves should want SHN Mark Filipak wrote: > The quality of your copy would ordinarily depend on how far out on your branch you are. Some leaves would get lower generation product while other leaves would get a higher generation copy. > > If using SHN guarantees leaves that they will get no worse than 2nd generation, and it doesn't entail any extra expense, why not? Maybe because I don't have a burner so SHN would be useless to me? Or am I misunderstanding? > You're going to get standard redbook audio that will play anywhere (or SHN if that's what you want), so why would any leaf say no? Give me audio that will play anywhere and I'm happy. Give me SHN and I have coasters for all the good they will do me. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > Like I said earlier, that I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this > project. I believe that only certain significant representative concerts > should be selected... Hello Vic, speaking of 'only certain significant representative concerts' I can give you some information, so that you will realize how much effort we put into this project: i have asked 5 people on the list to remaster concerts from my collection. From what they have told me they already spent a lot of time so far to get their 'job' done as good as possible. I won't mention names but I truly know that those people are absolute experts in remastering (or would you like to spend 18-20 hours at home trying to fix and correct the tape speed of a slurry sounding piece which has a length of only 10 minutes?) > The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too > soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... that's your own opinion..and I hope that when the first batch of CDRs will hit the 'fanbase' they all will scream for more ;-) Heiko (who needs a break from all this.......see ya tomorrow ~lol~) From: '3N' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Why leaves should want SHN HeY! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Filipak To: Tadream Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:23 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] Why leaves should want SHN > > If using SHN guarantees leaves that they will get no worse than 2nd generation, and it doesn't entail any extra expense, why not? > The SHN compression is a news for me, but I think it's very interesting. It was so many words about this, but for the tree we can use an another idea. Some from the top of tree make on HDD _images_ of master audio discs and burn their as data (in max possibility speed). Afterword send their to the next member. He copy images from data discs to HDD and with own burnig-software make audiocopying on on own-favourite type of disc. When all will be done send recived image copies to the next member and so on. The question of cost (in this method it's only a cost of post-package - of course discs would be without boxes) can be done in any couple of sender privatelly. I see, that's only a problem with leaves without a burnighardware. To their material must come direct in audio format. But for branches, I think, it's good idea. My two cents, and now I must go in the lurker mode - I have a lot of work ;)). regards JerzyK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wiesz, co daja dzisiaj w TV? >>> http://tv.interia.pl/ From: 'vic rek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > i have asked 5 people on the list to remaster concerts from my collection. From > what they have told me they already spent a lot of time so far to get their > 'job' done as good as possible. I won't mention names but I truly know that > those people are absolute experts in remastering (or would you like to spend > 18-20 hours at home trying to fix and correct the tape speed of a slurry > sounding piece which has a length of only 10 minutes?) > Heiko, obviously this is nothing personal - so don't take it that way. The fact that people have spent time remastering, de-slurring, etc. is great! This is not wasted at all! My point is that the scope of this effort is too large and it should be kept to only a few concerts and the rest should be worked off this list. What is the big urgency all-of-a-sudden? > > The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too > > soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... > > that's your own opinion..and I hope that when the first batch of CDRs will hit > the 'fanbase' they all will scream for more ;-) Obviously you are a bit p*ssed for some reason. Again, what's the hurry. Take it easy and like you exactly said 'let the fanbase scream for more'... Vic From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [tree] KISS From: 'vic rek' >Like I said earlier, that I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this project. I believe that only certain significant representative concerts should be selected and that this should be over time with different fans acting as trunks. The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... Um, well lemme see, I never received one tape for the trees I was on back in the uwp list days, so I'd rather have the benefits of heiko's greedy benevolence. One disc received would certainly be a better average than that. We don't see TDI releasing these things. Ozric Tentacles management acknowledges trading and generally asks for copies of shows that are distributed on that list for archival purposes--they get the artwork, too. Maybe someone can be benevolently greedy and give TDI a copy of this perhaps for greater distribution amongst the world down the line. Certainly this tree will represent just what the fans here can do/will have done and have wanted for a long time--plenty of wart removal and no tangentization. It would also represent the possibility of what fans could do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's vaults. >So!, I'm going to go out today and buy my 100 CD-R spindle for $30 and send >it media mail rate to my branch and just sit back and wait for about 50 >high quality 'error-free' concerts to arrive at my doorstep. Great idea/great contribution to this tree. So yer in for the SHN branch then? >This is almost as good as the $600 tax refund check that George Bush sent >me!< Actually, I think it's better than that, I only got $300. ;) --T _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31511 Who's vault is it anyway? airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31518 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31514 Re: [tree] KISS airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] KISS and so it begins Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31499 Re: [tree] KISS and Kaboom! Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] KISS and Kaboom! Maybe it's time to take a moratorium on the intricacies of the tree. We'll all have plenty of time to sort that out as it begins and all the back and forth isn't changing anyone's minds. All the info is out there, or on the web page for each person to check out. Peace, Mike From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read From: 'C. Chambers' > > Also if you do rip an audio CD to your hard drive and it has more than > > one track you will have a tiny glitch unless you put it back together with > > SoundForge or something similar even if you use DAO. > > Not necessarily...maybe that depends on your software. The gaps Robert is referring to crop in when ripping software grabs tracks from a disc. It'll often add a few frames of silence at the end, and if the tracks are continuous and you burn those tracks back to disc the gaps can be heard. The easy way around this problem is to use Nero and crossfade each track by 5 frames. Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31549 Re: [tree] regarding this tree TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31552 Re: regarding this tree TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31579 Re: [tree] regarding this tree ftsmythe Sat 1/19/2002 4 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? > -----Original Message----- > To SHN or not to SHN... I say do what ever it takes. Make them both > available. Let the leaves ask. I do know that I will be > hunting down a SHN program. > Joe had it right, he did say he most likely do both for his own use. well, I was on the Road to Redbook, then Mark and Craig knocked me off my horse: It would be more trouble to trade in redbook format, and I will be participating to receive SHN-only, but I will be happy to burn to redbook for my downline leaves or branches. I was resistant, but now I have seen the light! Call me Saul. :) The link to download the SHN program is on the tree info page here: http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#format From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] KISS > -----Original Message----- > From: vic rek [mailto:tang > The way the tree reads now is that I sit back as a leaf and > just yell GIMME GIMME!! ... > I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this project. ... > spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too soon > and for free ... > I hope you read all the sarcasm in this post and don't take > it lliterally... but think about it. Vic Thanks Vic, for your concerns. If your concerns outweigh your desire to participate, please feel free to contact me when it's over, and I'll be happy to trade individual items from the project with you. Of course, you'll only be getting pieces-parts of the set, and your jewel case spine image won't line up, but maybe you already have some of these concerts and don't need them all at first generation quality. As for your feeling that failure is inevitable, the operative here is that we ARE thinking about 'it' and have a pretty good game plan. We'll see how the project goes with this many disks, but remember, we are free from the usual burden of treeing the artwork in addition to the CDs, which will help. The only reason that any of this will fail is if any participant backs out. But even then, we will just prune and graft his/her branch. We will also have fully visible accountability for every participant through the tadream.net Tree page. A lot of trees post their structures, but I've never seen one that actually tracks activity of participants, providing accountability and ensuring timely delivery. And about the money thing: I send you a package, you send me one. The postage costs are going to be about the same, give or take a few ounces of weight, so it's a wash, isn't it? Where's the need for money? But I would expect something in return if you were my leaf, and that is between you and me alone, whether it is blanks, or a trade, or the promise to share a few pints of Guiness at Okeefenokee! Joe From: 'maggior@m...' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:11 pm Subject: RE: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? I was a bit resistant at first as well. I've downloaded the software and played with it a bit. It is truely easy to use It really makes a lot of sense to use this for audio file trading. I like the fact that I'll be able to burn the copies at 12X rather than the ususal 4X I use for audio (redbook) purposes. What does this mean? It means I can support more leaves than I normally would. To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I can play wherever I want. In my opinion, this is a great idea - I'm sold! Rich Maggio > -----Original Message----- > To SHN or not to SHN... I say do what ever it takes. Make them both > available. Let the leaves ask. I do know that I will be > hunting down a SHN program. > Joe had it right, he did say he most likely do both for his own use. It would be more trouble to trade in redbook format, and I will be participating to receive SHN-only, but I will be happy to burn to redbook for my downline leaves or branches. I was resistant, but now I have seen the light! Call me Saul. :) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: 'zathrus13' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:15 pm Subject: Schulze's Contemporary Edition Hello all - I made a trade with someone a while back and I got Klaus' Comtemporary Works CD set. What I didn't get was the booklet. Does anyone have this set who would be willing to copy the booklet for me? I'm willing to trade a CDR for it. Please contact me offline. (jmisner13@l...) ---Jeff From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:24 pm Subject: Interesting mention Hi all-- Just saw this posted to the Neil Young list about taking your children to concerts. Thought you might get a kick out of it. 'Hello all, some positive thoughts on this subject- I've been taking my kids to live shows since they were 7- My oldest went with me to Tangerine Dream at age 7, For us,these events have been tons of fun. My boys are 18 and 15 now, and we continue to share an amazing musical bond that is just awesome. I guess everyone's different, but they'd rather me take them to U2 than to the World series....' Curious if anyone here had done the same. Mike From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:35 pm Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? From: > To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs > in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! > For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I > can play wherever I want. I must be missing something here. Wouldn't branches have to burn for leaves in standard redbook format? How many leaves would want to get the discs in SHN format? Sure, they could extract them, but without burners they'd have to convert to MP3. My understanding of this was that branches could pass SHN discs down to other branches beneath them, but if you're burning for a leaf you'd have to do it in standard redbook. This is making my head hurt ;-). Maff From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:48 pm Subject: [tree] Format Wars Could I suggest we drop any further discussion of formats? Given anyone can sign up to the (basically independent) redbook or SHN subtrees everyone should be happy one way or the other. Each has it's own benefits and inconveniences, and most people seem to have quickly decided which suits them. In all the technical discussions, nobody's discussed the content, have they? Well, I'd like to say - it sounds fantastic, a mix of stuff I've never heard and favorites I'd kill for a top quality copy of. Nice choice, Heiko. jc Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31543 Re: [tree] Format Wars Heiko Heerssen Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:48 pm Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? does it matter? If a leaf tells you they want audio, burn audio, if they say shn, burn shn, if they request mp3 burn mp3. Just be flexible and go forth. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:35 PM Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? > From: > > > > To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs > > in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! > > For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I > > can play wherever I want. > > > I must be missing something here. Wouldn't branches have to burn for leaves > in standard redbook format? How many leaves would want to get the discs in > SHN format? Sure, they could extract them, but without burners they'd have > to convert to MP3. My understanding of this was that branches could pass SHN > discs down to other branches beneath them, but if you're burning for a leaf > you'd have to do it in standard redbook. > > This is making my head hurt ;-). > > > Maff > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:56 pm Subject: tree content I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in detail will be known? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31510 Re: tree content Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31516 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31517 Re: tree content Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31520 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31524 Re: tree content bigstupidgeek Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content To sum this up, just where is the Holy Grail? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:56 PM Subject: [tadream] tree content > I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment > was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up > of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. > I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in > detail will be known? > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31516 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:00 pm Subject: Who's vault is it anyway? --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > It would also represent the possibility of what fans could > do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's > vaults. What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a decent recording? jc (cynical, moi?) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31518 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'maggior@m...' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:01 pm Subject: RE: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? Maff, Sorry, I didn't mean to make your head hurt! ;-) You're right, I wasn't distinguishing the tree nodes below me as branches or leaves. If they are branches, then my statement holds true. Leaves presumabley don't have CD burning capabilities, so they would want redbook copies. This is unless the tree is setup so that paths from the trunk (root) to the leaves are of a specific format. Now I'm making my own head hurt ;-). Rich Maggio Original Message: ----------------- From: > To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs > in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! > For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I > can play wherever I want. I must be missing something here. Wouldn't branches have to burn for leaves in standard redbook format? How many leaves would want to get the discs in SHN format? Sure, they could extract them, but without burners they'd have to convert to MP3. My understanding of this was that branches could pass SHN discs down to other branches beneath them, but if you're burning for a leaf you'd have to do it in standard redbook. This is making my head hurt ;-). Maff ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 7:36 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? >From: Joe Shoults >I was resistant, but now I have seen the light! Call me Saul. :) Don't you mean ''Paul''? -jim From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [tree] KISS --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > Maybe someone can be benevolently > greedy and give TDI a copy of this perhaps for greater > distribution amongst the world down the line. I wouldn't, unless they ask. Martin knows we're here. It may be legally expedient not to know too much. I'm sure I've heard of commercial bootleggers using approval of fan trading to justify piracy. jc From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? That answer is easy. I envision them sitting around a dart board. On that dart board is a list of all the concert, special tapes and the like. you stand a mile away and throw at it. If it strikes, you note that area and immediately take out a coin, be it a German Mark or Euro these days, flip it, close your eyes and touch the dart board. If it was heads, it is three fingers to the left or right depending on where you touch the board, if tails, you wait till the full moon, see is a shadow is cast on the board, then 1 finger to the right. The dart was only a marker. I too see almost no rhyme or reason to why some of theses are chosen and not others. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'airsculpture' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? > --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > > It would also represent the possibility of what fans could > > do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's > > vaults. > > What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, > but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the > E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog > modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why > pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a > decent recording? > > jc (cynical, moi?) > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31526 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? John Marchington Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content At 12:57 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >To sum this up, just where is the Holy Grail? The Killer Bunnies got it!! Run! Mike From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content I just got this killer DVD from a band called The Ruttles. I wonder if there should be a TD version done too? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Michael Fox' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content > At 12:57 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: > >To sum this up, just where is the Holy Grail? > > The Killer Bunnies got it!! Run! > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31520 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? At 09:00 PM 01/17/2002 +0000, you wrote: >What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, >but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the >E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog >modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why >pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a >decent recording? (wipes tear from eye) Man, this takes me back to the uwp list days. Probably, if those tapes exist, they are in such horrid condition they can't be used. (I have mucho info on archiving master reels-if anyone wants to read that stuff, I can supply a link from an old friend who was an engineer at A&M) BTW---it's the DX-Ball game room that the tapes are stored next to--it shares space with the Mellotron room. :-) Mike From: 'meta_mythos' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN > Your choise. -- Mark What about us Mac types ? I'm not sure if it's as easy on A Mac due to all this .wav nonsense. I'm running a pro system with a ProTools front end, and I'm more interested in fidelity than space saving. B. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31521 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31523 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31527 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31522 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content At 01:21 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I just got this killer DVD from a band called The Ruttles. I wonder if there >should be a TD version done too? Only if it's Ruttle-ized. Okay, I quit. Mike From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:44 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN --- In tadream@y..., 'meta_mythos' wrote: > What about us Mac types ? There's a mac version, I checked before I jumped on the bandwagon (I'm a PC user, but I care). Joe has a link on www.tadream.net, IMSC. Otherwise google is your friend. > I'm not sure if it's as easy on A Mac due to all this .wav > nonsense. What, can't ProTools import WAVs? It's become a pretty universal standard these days, not just PCs but Akai 5/6000s and so on. > I'm running a pro system with a ProTools front end, and I'm more > interested in fidelity than space saving. Then you want this, surely. 16-bit 44.1k is more than enough given the source material, unless you want another 8bits of hiss. jc Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31523 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31527 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN At 10:11 PM 01/16/2002 +0000, you wrote: >What about us Mac types ? >I'm not sure if it's as easy on A Mac due to all this .wav >nonsense. Check here: http://etree.org/macos.html From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN --- In tadream I wrote: > Could I suggest we drop any further discussion of formats? --- Then in tadream I wrote: > Then you want this, surely. Sorry. It's hard work shutting up :) jc From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:03 pm Subject: Re: tree content --- In tadream@y..., 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment > was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up > of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniquen great point Dale. These would make good liner notes. Do we have anyone willing to help compile these notes once we know which shows will be included? From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:28 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? Hi Dennis, I'm sure someone has already e-mailed you, but I thought I'd give you a line or too just in case. > -----Original Message----- > 1) What will the tree contain? There seems to be some talk > about older > concert recordings... Heiko has agreed to make available some master or low gen recordings from TD concerts, dates ranging from 74 to 78 (most likely). Someone will be remastering these for best quality. > 2) Not having a CD-R burner, will it be possible for me to > join as a 'leaf' > as long as I pay for the blank media? Absolutely! Most likely it will be blanks plus postage. That's up to whoever your branch (or upline) is. > 3) Who is going to oversee the tree? I remember joining the last tape > tree on the old list and never seeing a single tape because the tree > ground to a halt before my branch even received his copy. This is always a danger as the work is strictly voluntary. But other than having your hopes dashed, you wouldn't be out anything unless your immediate branch stiffed you. Personally, I wouldn't ask for my half of a trade from a leaf until I had sent them their discs! Also remember that if your branch breaks, you can always side-line and get copies from another branch. I think Joe Shoults (our list operator) is overseeing tree structure. You can sign up on the yahoogroups page or maybe from www.tadream.net James From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 11:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? This is food for thought. We could all end up with a lot of dross -- concerts where crowd noise in unusually obtrusive, where the microphones are a long way away from the players, where even the band is having an (unusually) bad night, or simply where the music itself is less than brilliant! We've probably all got TD bootlegs where one or other of the above intrude on our enjoyment, and 'Soundmill Navigator' is certainly a case in point with an official release that is technically flawed. I don't mean to be pessimistic but all this talk about SHN etc might be for nought! ----- Original Message ----- From: 'airsculpture' To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? > --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > > It would also represent the possibility of what fans could > > do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's > > vaults. > > What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, > but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the > E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog > modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why > pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a > decent recording? > > jc (cynical, moi?) > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'meta_mythos' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 11:05 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Interesting, took 24 hours for my last post to appear in Yahoo, what's that all about ? Anyway... > There's a mac version, I checked before I jumped on the bandwagon > (I'm a PC user, but I care). Hey, thanks JC, always appreciated. > What, can't ProTools import WAVs? Sure, but dealing with all that Microshit stuff is a real bore..but let's not go there. I just wanted to be compatible with the rest of whatever branch/leaf stream I'm connected too. Amusingly enough, I'm planning to move up to the new 96k version of ProTools, and it now uses WAV as it's default audio format. Go figure. > Then you want this, surely. 16-bit 44.1k is more than enough given > the source material, unless you want another 8bits of hiss. Ha ha !' True :) I had thought of working with the material in 24 bit at some stage and re mastering and generally cleaning them up for my own enjoyment (way to busy at the moment to be able to offer to do that for this tree alas) I just like the idea of audio red book discs, much easier all around. I master my own albums down to regular old CDR and and dupe copies for production with NO problems with fidelity. Most of my friends are musicians, and they do exactly the same. B. From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 11:30 pm Subject: >I just like the idea of audio red book discs, much easier all around. I master my own albums down to regular old CDR and and dupe copies for production with NO problems with fidelity. Most of my friends are musicians, and they do exactly the same.< but do you make CDRs of CDRs of CDRs of CDRs of CDRs and then expect them to play perfectly well and sound good too? redbook audio is not easier when you get a defective disc from somewhere overseas--it's a big hassle--at least there is email no, not just snail mail--so it shortens (ha!) the turnaround time for corrections. And if the disc that they burned your copy from was defective, it's a massive daisy-chain of problems, not to mention time, so it's not easier all around. --T _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: tom george Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:00 am Subject: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave Files Etc. To whoever asked for a copy of the 'Contemporary Works' book: my question to you is 'why do you need it unless you speak German. Every page in it save two are in German. another question to those talking all of the computer burn possibilities. what about all of us that don't have computer access except at work. I can't burn or rip or whatever, nor can i download and print booklet covers. i can burn cdrs on my audio only burner. so i hope i get a branch that is willing to not only burn cdrs but is also willing to do covers for me. what are the chances of that happening? my thinking is next to none. Beerhammer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31531 Re: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave File airsculpture Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31559 Re: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave File Michael Fox Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:39 am Subject: Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds >From: Mark Filipak >Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:24 am >Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection > >scfeldman@j... wrote: > > > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak > > writes: > > > > >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' > > >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > >Eh? Produce the proof, dear Steven. http://www.feldoncentral.com/1701-ThatsCorrect.mp3 -Morgan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'airsculpture' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:44 am Subject: Re: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave Files Etc. --- In tadream@y..., tom george wrote: > what about all of us that don't have computer access > except at work. I can't burn or rip or whatever, nor > can i download and print booklet covers. i can burn > cdrs on my audio only burner. so i hope i get a > branch that is willing to not only burn cdrs No problem, just sign up for the main (redbook) tree. > but is > also willing to do covers for me. what are the chances > of that happening? my thinking is next to none. Covers have been slightly ignored, but I guess once the images are online people will be willing to volunteer to print them for printerless folks. I look at it as an excuse to finally buy a color printer. From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:06 am Subject: Warsaw, Poland 1983 Information The afternoon Warsaw 1983 concert had no power outages. The evening Warsaw 1983 concert had ONE power outage at 10 minutes, 7 seconds into the music. After a couple of minutes, they were able to resume, playing the typical 'bridge' after the first movement of Poland. The best possible bootleg of the afternoon and evening shows is 'Dreaming on Ice Stadium', but even it has tracks out of sequence and many mislabelings (never trust a boot label!), probably due to language translation. Once all the tracks have been reshuffled, it's a decent quality bootleg (6/10) that, with some TLC (pitch adjustment and filtering) could be even better. The actual tracklist for both shows is as follows: [Set One] Poland movement 1 [12:58]* Poland bridge [3:06] Poland movement 2 [10:25] Tangent movement 1 [3:42] Tangent movement 2 [5:49] Tangent movement 3 [7:11] [Set Two] Horizon movement 1 [11:53] Horizon movement 2 [4:22] Warsaw in the Sun [5:56] Barbakane movement 3 [5:25] Kiew Mission lyrics spoken aloud [1:39] Sphinx Lightning excerpt [4:25] Horizon movement 3 [6:32] Logos ending coda [2:39] [Encores] Rarebird [4:48] White Eagle [4:26] Chroronzon 1981-1983 ver [8:55] What appears on all official Poland releases is a studio creation in spring 1984. Of note on the official Poland releases is a brand new 6 minute track instead of 6 minutes of 'Sphinx Lightning' from Barbakane, a heavily redesigned Warsaw in the Sun, the first passage of Poland was 2 minutes shorter, and there are tracks missing and reshuffled as described above. The Polish spoken introduction on the 2 CD of Poland is authentic. -Morgan * I'm still trying to get the entry for this show corrected at Duncan's otherwise awesome website here: http://www.zebbyworld.demon.co.uk/Frames/Frameset2.html It lists Poland as a 30 minute track and describes it as being identical to the Japanese tour earlier in 1983. This is simply not the case. Not only were 4 minutes of (in my opinion) fruitless improvisation shaved off, but actually, more musical ground is covered. Poland, as played at the Warsaw show in 1983 is not identical to what was released, but it's pretty darn close. The Japanese 1983 tours are interesting to listen to, but your attention tends to wane, as the heavy 16 1/2 minute version of Poland movement 1 wears on. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31575 Re: Warsaw, Poland 1983 Information 3N Fri 1/18/2002 8 KB From: Felna Greymane Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:18 am Subject: SHN Forgive me for asking on list, but I am spending so much time reading thru mail, I dont have time left to go find out on my own... Craig, You ALMOST have me sold on SHN....my question....can you play it on the fly from SHN format? If so, does it take specialized audio programs? I normally just use the media player built into windows. Jeff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31537 Re: SHN C. Chambers Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: quarlie@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Interesting mention In a message dated 1/17/02 3:26:04 PM, mfox@i... writes: >Just saw this posted to the Neil Young list about taking your children >to concerts. Thought you might get a kick out of it. [...] >Curious if anyone here had done the same. My mom took me to see TD when I was 11 (I already liked some TD at that point). I'm now a bigger TD fan than she is. --Daniel NP: Wolfsheim - Spectators From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:16 am Subject: [tree] SHN I was getting sucked into the whirlwind of excitement for SHN, then I realized something. The main reason for bit errors on redbook audio CDs is scratches, etc. right? How many scratches can an SHN disc take before that big massive file is corrupted and you have to get another copy from your branch? I presume SHN cannot deal with unreadable sections? Also, who is going to seed all these SHN branches? If there are several redbook audio steps before the SHN, what have we accomplished? I think Hieko would have to buy a CD burner for his PC to do the SHN at the level you guys are asking for. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31554 Re: [tree] SHN airsculpture Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS --> Oke 2002 Ok - Okefenokee! It's time for me to stop talking about this tree stuff. Enough! It's time to act! I'll be waiting as a leaf and I'll make sure my source gets some nice CD-Rs in return ;-) Time to focus some attention to Okefenokee 2002. See http://akorn.net/~tangerinedream/ricochet.htm We are almost SOLD OUT, so you adventurous late comers need to contact me ASAP. For those that do not know yet, Jens Peschke has decided to join Marcel (Free System Projekt), John and Pete (AirSculpture), Dave Brewer and Bill Fox for our 3rd year of the Ricochet Gathering. Our first German to join the gathering! Next year this event will ricochet to another part of the USA - stay tuned for more info and an upcoming CD from last year's event. Vic > And about the money thing: I send you a package, you send me one. The > postage costs are going to be about the same, give or take a few ounces of > weight, so it's a wash, isn't it? Where's the need for money? But I would > expect something in return if you were my leaf, and that is between you and > me alone, whether it is blanks, or a trade, or the promise to share a few > pints of Guiness at Okeefenokee! > > Joe From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:23 am Subject: RE: [tadream] SHN > You ALMOST have me sold on SHN....my question....can you play it > on the fly > from SHN format? If so, does it take specialized audio programs? I > normally just use the media player built into windows. Well, Jeff, first off, I am not trying to 'sell' the format...just trying to help enlighten folks to what it is and what are some of the benefits to using it. It will work for some and not others which is perfectly okay as long as you are happy...I think it is absolutely clear that both paths will be accomodated. To answer your question regarding special software, you do need WinAmp (commonly used for playing MP3's on a PC) with a special plug-in...so it isn't particularly convenient unless you use WinAmp on a regular basis anyway. I am almost certain they will not play in Media Player, unless someone has developed a plug-in for that too...(does Microsoft allow plug-ins?) I think (at least in my opinion) that you are better off just assuming you will need to burn a copy to audio if you really want to enjoy it... Craig From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:06 am Subject: [tree] The Holy Grail(?) >Administrator for Kay-Net.com said: >I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment >was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up >of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. >I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in >detail will be known? From day, month, and year of a recording, you can extrapolate the rest of the information. Paul Fellows' updated Concert Dates & Venue cross-reference website: http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html Tour personnel from 1974-1977 was Edgar Froese, Peter Baumann, Chris Franke. Tour personnel for 1978 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Steve Joliffe, Klaus Krieger (I think). Tour personnel for 1980-1984 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Johannes Schmoelling. Tour personnel for 1986-1987(?) was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Paul Haslinger I hope I haven't got those years wrong. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31539 Re: [tree] The Holy Grail(?) Admin Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:30 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] The Holy Grail(?) Well that is a piece of the pie. I am thinking what I am going to do with my disks are to place them into a binder with as much info for each concert I can dig up. Make up sort of a book for each concert. maybe just use one binder but with many leafs inside. Put art work outside. I just can't see stopping at the disk when a whole range of information is available. After all these are items to enjoy. Just like a bottle of fine wine. Except you can enjoy these more than once. I would also be interested in any who may take some of the tracks and convert them into midi. It will be a hand effort for sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Morgan Feldon' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 9:06 PM Subject: [tadream] [tree] The Holy Grail(?) > >Administrator for Kay-Net.com said: > >I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment > >was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up > >of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. > >I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in > >detail will be known? > > From day, month, and year of a recording, you can extrapolate the rest of > the information. > > Paul Fellows' updated Concert Dates & Venue cross-reference website: > http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html > > > Tour personnel from 1974-1977 was Edgar Froese, Peter Baumann, Chris Franke. > > Tour personnel for 1978 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Steve Joliffe, > Klaus Krieger (I think). > > Tour personnel for 1980-1984 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Johannes > Schmoelling. > > Tour personnel for 1986-1987(?) was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Paul Haslinger > > I hope I haven't got those years wrong. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:33 am Subject: mellotron Anybody know where one can find samples of a mellotron? What I am looking for are wave format of each instrument as found in mellotrons. I have a crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. dale Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31548 Re: mellotron TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31550 Re: mellotron Eric Williamson Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron In a message dated 1/18/2002 12:34:17 AM Central Standard Time, admin@k... writes: > Anybody know where one can find samples of a mellotron? What I am looking > for are wave format of each instrument as found in mellotrons. I have a > crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > dale > *There's a CD that Mike Pinder of the Moody Blues put out that has all the classic 'Tron samples. I am very partial to it. I think it's in AKAI format if that's compatible with your sampler. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'albenson' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:10 am Subject: The 'tree' of course! ~lol~ Our esteemed colleague Heiko wrote in Tadream Digest #1177 on January 9th: > [...] I know that I have a considerable number of recordings > which were not easy to obtain (master tapes or 2nd & 3rd > generation copies > > <> ~ROFL(((PIMP)))MAO~ > and I would like to share my best sounding recordings with > those who are interested in hearing them. And maybe other > 'die-hard' collectors also want to make their contribution. [...] And, followed up with: > [...] -Sheffield 29.10.74 1st gen., Nottingham 8.11.76 1st gen., > London 2.4.75 BBC master tape, Paris 16.08.75 4th gen., > London Olympia 22.10.75 2nd gen., Croydon 23.10.75 1st > gen., London 7.6.76 1st gen., Berlin 27.6.76 FM, Düsseldorf > 21.10.76 2nd gen., Brussels 16.11.76 3rd gen., excerpts from > Paris 22.11.76 3rd gen, excerpts of Seattle 21.4.77 3rd gen., > Hamburg 24.2.78...and a lot more :-) [...] _________________________________________________ I never really left -- I'm just lurking! ~lol~ Looks like you'll be using from the Bay Area the following: Berlin (06.27.76), Brussels (11.16.76), London (11.06.82) and excerpts from Paris (11.22.76) & Seattle (04.21.77)... I'm looking forward to making another contribution, but it shall remain a TD surprise! ~lol~ Count me in!!! Best Always, -- Al Berkeley, CA PS: Still backlogged (I'm very slow...), and don't worry I've got a memory like an elephant! :^) And, YES -- I'll update my TD website soon... http://marspolaris.tripod.com/index.html ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31988 Re: The 'tree' of course! ~lol~ albenson Fri 2/8/2002 4 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:40 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Format Wars > In all the technical discussions, nobody's discussed the content, > have they? Well, I'd like to say - it sounds fantastic, a mix of > stuff I've never heard and favorites I'd kill for a top quality copy > of. Nice choice, Heiko. Thanks very much. Again I would like to point out that my concerts list is not definite, and I already know a few concerts which I think will be dropped from the list (for various reasons) Heiko From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:49 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] SHN From: 'Morgan Feldon' > I was getting sucked into the whirlwind of excitement for SHN, then I > realized something. > > The main reason for bit errors on redbook audio CDs is scratches, etc. right? > > How many scratches can an SHN disc take before that big massive file is > corrupted and you have to get another copy from your branch? I believe the point of distributing down the tree in SHN format is to try and eliminate redbook errors that wont show up when copying the discs and doing a standard verify check afterwards. When a branch extracts a SHN file to burn to redbook for a leaf, they can look at the checksum and if it doesn't match then they would need to request a new copy from the branch that supplied them. As long as each SHN branch checks their sums, you can trap an error straight away and it won't continue down the tree. Er... right? Mark?? ;-) I think I'm going to go with SHN, if it doesn't take too much hastle to set up. I'm a little skeptical about just how much sound degeneration you get when copying CDR of a CDR of a CDR if you're using *digital* audio extraction, and we are copying bootlegs and audience tapes. Excellently remastered audience tapes I'm sure, but still tapes. Maff From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:57 am Subject: [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark I have a question for Mark or any other SHN experts in here. As was mentioned here recently, when burning a series of MP3's with continuous music (ie, no gaps) back into redbook you often get minor glitches inbetween each track, where the ripping software leaves a few frames of silence at the end of each track. Are you sure the SHN program doesn't do the same? This wont be an issue on discs with one 45 minute set, but the Bernau disc for example has about 13 tracks on it. Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31553 Re: [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark Mark Filipak Fri 1/18/2002 7 KB 31556 Re: [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark C. Chambers Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: 'Yensen, Stephen' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:15 am Subject: RE: [tree] What's this all about? I hope this tree is going to work this time - I'm still extremely annoyed about the failure of the old European tape tree back in the old uwp days! Cheers, Steve - -- The wages of sin are death - but the wages here are worse. From: Eric Williamson Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:22 am Subject: RE: mellotrons? dale said: > I have a crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. Now that someone's pointed you in the right direction, what's your crazy idea? Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31562 Re: mellotrons? Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31576 Re: mellotrons? Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:31 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron --- Admin wrote: > Anybody know where one can find samples of a > mellotron? What I am looking > for are wave format of each instrument as found in > mellotrons. I have a > crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > dale (I'm not an expert so I might talk lot of bullsh** here but anyway) If you could try it, it would be cool. Different models had different instruments recorded. Basic patch I quess was cello, strings, horns and couple of rythms. But when years went on, many bands - like TD - recorded their own sounds there. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31550 Re: mellotron Eric Williamson Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Dear list, just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and spiritual property. - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve any profit-making. - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years past. Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31552 Re: regarding this tree TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31579 Re: [tree] regarding this tree ftsmythe Sat 1/19/2002 4 KB From: Eric Williamson Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron Quoting TheInfection : > horns and couple of rythms. But when years went on, > many bands - like TD - recorded their own sounds very _very_ few performers recorded their own Mellotron samples. most custon mellotron samples were record by and for the BBC Radiophonic Workshop. TD definitely did record their own Mellotron tapes, but not as many as 'Fast Eddie' Froese would claim. they had to do the recording themselves and _then_ send the tapes to Mellotronics (or Streetly or whoever they were called). they couldn't do it all on their own because the Mellotron used some totally messed-up tape width .. like 3/8' or something. i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 months before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed up for sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape set that is all over 'Monolight' on Encore. i am _so_ kicking myself now ... they only wanted 30 dollars for it. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Now that everybody on the list has taken a deep breath I can only add the following: I am a huge Tangerine Dream fan..and I may be very naive..but I am no fool. As long as our tree is operated on a strictly non-profit level everybody's happy. But remember that I am the person to blame when someone is trying to squeeze out a few bucks by selling 'tree CDRs' to other people for ridiculous prices. Sooner or later it all comes back to me. I hope (and believe) that no-one of the participants will do this, but in case it happens I will cut off the tree immediately, and if it all gets out of hand I will not hesitate to unsubscribe from the mailing list. Heiko > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31560 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Michael Fox Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31563 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB 31565 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Joe Shoults Fri 1/18/2002 6 KB 31580 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Admin Sat 1/19/2002 5 KB 31581 Re: [tree] regarding this tree KMJ Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB 31582 Re: [tree] regarding this tree C. Chambers Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:28 am Subject: Re: regarding this tree I can very well say that I won't even think of the word profit in any situation. This will be only the opportunity to get great music and to pass a copy to my friends who might be interested. And if someone less mature sells these releases in high prices, don't blame all of us. Well, not me at least. :-) Of course I don't mind that you might have some reservations and worries about this kind of operation. It's complitely understandable. Regards, TheInfection --- 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no > misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this > tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves > somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as > this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each > and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on > part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good > lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic > Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members > first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate > evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting > but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and > wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. > I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:36 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark Hi Maff. Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > I have a question for Mark or any other SHN experts in here. First off, in the spirit of truth in advertising, I am not a SHN expert. I was introduced to it only in the storm over the last few days. As an electronics engineer I have designed many complex frequency domain filters (in hardware!) and I am very familiar with the processes and issues, so I developed warm feelings for SHN faster than most on the list because I already understood how it works. > As was > mentioned here recently, when burning a series of MP3's with continuous > music (ie, no gaps) back into redbook you often get minor glitches inbetween > each track, where the ripping software leaves a few frames of silence at the > end of each track. Are you sure the SHN program doesn't do the same? SHN is not a ripper. It is a compression method. If your ripper pads tracks with 2 seconds of silence, SHN will include that silence because it doesn't alter the audio content at all -- 'lossless' means unaltered, 100% fidelity. > This > wont be an issue on discs with one 45 minute set, but the Bernau disc for > example has about 13 tracks on it. If you rip, set the ripper to not put in a track pad. If your ripper has no such setting, get a different ripper. I recommend EAC (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) which does no such thing and it's freeware. Optional reading ================ Have you ever used ZIP to compress programs and general data? Here's a conceptual view of what happens when you ZIP, for example, the Microsoft Word main program: Word.exe --> ZIP --> Word.zip You feed it the Word.exe file and ZIP makes a compressed version, names that compressed version Word.zip, and saves it on the hard drive. ZIP does not alter the original Word.exe file in any way. You can also UNZIP a file. For example: Word.zip --> UNZIP --> Word.exe (in different folder) Here is a picture of a 'round trip' that could be made: Word.exe --> ZIP --> Word.zip --> UNZIP --> Word.exe (in different folder) You can do a binary comparison of the two versions of Word.exe: Word.exe === Word.exe (in different folder) - happy outcome, or Word.exe =/= Word.exe (in different folder) - sad outcome (error). SHN is similar to ZIP, but fine tuned to do audio, spectral compression. The SHN 'round trip' looks like this: Exit.wav --> SHN --> Exit.shn --> UNSHN --> Exit.wav (in different folder) Both ZIP and SHN are 'lossless', meaning: unless there is an error, what you put into the compression end is what comes back out of the decompression end. So if I do a binary comparison of the two versions of Exit.wav: Exit.wav === Exit.wav (in different folder) THAT'S LOSSLESS. Now, look at MP3: Exit.wav --> MP3 --> Exit.mp3 --> UNMP3 --> Exit.wav (in different folder) Exit.wav =/= Exit.wav (in different folder) With MP3, the comparison is guaranteed to fail. THAT'S LOSSY, meaning it has lost something. How do I know that? The binary comparison shows that the two files are different. How lossy is it? That's determined by the percent of compression used when making the MP3 file. By the way, the MKW Audio Compression Tool that I'm using will do SHN, UNSHN, MP3, and UNMP3 -- the MP3 stuff is done with a Blade plugin, but that's included. You can get MKWACT here: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html Think of MP3 as like a text compressor that leaves out every other vowel. The rsult mght be radble, bt yo woldn't want t have t red to much f it. Or, if you set the MP3 compression higher, the rslt might b nredble! So, what do I know? I know: What I put into SHN is exactly what I get out of UNSHN. I also know that a SHN file is about 1/2 the size of a WAV file. And I know that I can UNSHN a SHN file whenever I want the original WAV file back. And I know that I can make redbook audio out of WAV files. That's all I really need to know. With SHN, an entire concert will fit on one CD. With WAV or redbook audio, it will not in most cases. Oh, I know some other things: Copying a redbook disc to another redbook disc may produce errors that I don't know about: Exit.cda (on CD-ROM) --> RIP --> Exit.raw --> BURN --> Exit.cda (on CD-RAM) Exit.cda (on CD-ROM) =?= Exit.cda (on CD-RAM) (Ripping redbook audio is error prone. Trying to compare the two '.cda' files means ripping in both directions!) [To the knowledgable here, I know that '.cda' is not the real redbook audio (which is not really stored as a file at all), but when you look at the disc with Explorer, it's '.cda' that you see.] Copying a SHN disc to another SHN disc may produce an error (very unlikely), but I can check for errors and try again. Exit.shn (on CD-ROM) --> COPY --> Exit.shn (on CD-RAM) Exit.md5 (on CD-ROM) === Exit.md5 (on CD-RAM) - happy, or Exit.md5 (on CD-ROM) =/= Exit.md5 (on CD-RAM) - sad (error) The md5 is the fancy checksum error detector we've been talking about. It's included, but you have to run it. (Hmmm... I think I'll suggest disc to disc copy with automatic error detection to Michael Weise.) Thanks for sticking with this explanation, and I hope all is a little more clear now. Ciao -- Mark From: 'airsculpture' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:48 am Subject: Re: [tree] SHN --- In tadream@y..., Morgan Feldon wrote: OK, I spoke to soon about leaving this... > The main reason for bit errors on redbook audio CDs is scratches, > etc. right? Wrong. I think. > How many scratches can an SHN disc take before that big massive > file is corrupted and you have to get another copy from your branch? > > I presume SHN cannot deal with unreadable sections? There is a big difference. A data disc is like a hard disc: it has error detecion & some degree of (lossless) error recovery. Damage that causes the file to be damaged is rare (just like any other data CD you have) and will be detectable if it happens. Audio CDs have the job of delivering 1sec of music every second. That's a higher priority than reading of the exact data. *In Normal Use* audio players sometimes produce innacurate data, to cope with jitter as well as data errors (to which they are more susceptible as there's no redundancy). You can't hear these errors in normal use (until the disc is going west) but repeated re-recordings could amplify the errors to an audible degree. Digital domain grabbing and EAC should avoid these problems, but not everyone in the redbook tree can or will want to deal with them. > Also, who is going to seed all these SHN branches? If there are several > redbook audio steps before the SHN, what have we accomplished? The plan seems to be to have a first level SHN root. > I think Hieko would have to buy a CD burner for his PC to do the > SHN at the level you guys are asking for. Not neccesarily. The worry is about *repeated* copies, putting one redbook copy at the root shouldn't be an issue. It would be better if the people doing the mastering could provide the WAV/SHN data (they must have) to the SHN root, of course. Heiko wouldn't need to copy them at all then. BTW: I think it's worth having a number of people archiving the maximal quality versions, because who knows what will happen in the future. I don't actually expect I'd be disapointed in the quality of a redbook version. jc From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:25 pm Subject: File copying -vs- digital audio copying I have not put [tree] in the subject line because what I have to write is general knowledge. What is the difference between copying a file from one disk (disc) to another, and copying digital audio (i.e., ripping redbook)? It's all digital, isn't it? Facts to know before details ============================ 1 - Digital audio is a real time process, file copying isn't. 2 - CD players do have sample and hold circuits, disk drives don't. 3 - CD players do have audio filters, disk drives don't. 4 - CD players don't have built-in memory, disk drives do. [Knowledgeble people should hold off replying 'til the end as I'm going to tell some half-truths, but clear them up at the end.] Detail 1 ======== How long does it take to copy 1 sector of data from your hard disk to, for example, a floppy disk? Answer: it varies. Does that matter? Answer: not much. How long does it take a CD player to 'play' 1 sector of data? Answer: somewhere around 1 second. Does that matter? Answer: it sure does! Detail 2 ======== What happens if a CD player has an error? Answer: It's digital sample and hold circuit retains the last good audio sample value and uses that to fill in. What happens if a disk drive has an error? Answer: The data is thown away and the sector is reread on the next disk revolution -- CD players can't afford the time it takes to do this. Detail 3 ======== What happens to the sound if the sample and hold in a CD player has to retain the last good audio sample? Answer: The slight error produced in the audio wave will be smoothed out by analog audio filters (inaudible) before it gets to the output. Of course, if there are a long string of errors, the held value gets too far from reality and when reality catches up, 'tick'. Can sample and hold be used to help disk drives? Answer: No. The bit patterns in data and programs have a much more seemingly random character and fill-in is not possible. Even one bit error while loading a program may crash the machine. Even one bit error in a data file may cause Mark Filipak to receive a 1 million dollar check in the mail. Detail 4 ======== Unlike hard disks and data-formatted CDRs, redbook uses a spiral as the music (data) track instead of concentric rings because CD players don't have any memory. They don't have any memory because back around 1980 when CD audio was first engineered, memory was very expensive. It's way too late to change that. Redbook: Look Ma, no memory =========================== The redbook format was specifically designed to allow playback without memory. CDs are formatted as a continuous spiral so that the laser optic pickup doesn't have to start and stop, but can be pushed at a (relatively) constant rate. Also, by doing this the CD player doesn't need to buffer (or cache) the audio data, but instead, merely streams it out in real time. Hard disk drives and computer CD-ROM drives must have at least enough memory to buffer one sector (called a 'sector cache') and most have enough memory to cache through track-to-track seeks to improve performance. Redbook: A quasi-digital medium =============================== You can see that redbook is actually a quasi-digital medium. The stored (waveform) data IS digital, but it is read by an analog control process. To the contrary, CDRs that have been formatted to hold DATA FILES (non-redbook) are formatted with concentric rings and use folders and everything else that comes with data file structures, just like a hard disk. The data is digital AND the way the data is stored and retrieved is also digital -- the laser optic pickup jumps back and forth from track to track. It is the constant motion of the laser optic pickup and the 'hunting' characteristic that I wrote about yesterday that creates the problems with ripping redbook audio. Clearing up the half-truths =========================== Though it is true that, unlike CD players, computer CD-ROM drives DO have memory, they often don't use it for audio (mine doesn't). And though DAE (digital audio extraction) in a computer's CD-ROM drive is SUPPOSED to read around the sample and hold, it doesn't in many CD-ROM drives. And though most quality CD players have error correction, most computer CD-ROM drives either don't, or they use it only when accessing file structures, but not audio -- further explanation: audio data error correction and file data error correction are two different things (when in redbook mode, the CD-ROM drive's microprocessor operates in a completely different manner and runs completely different internal programs). In the present world of cheap memory, if redbook was being invented now, it would be totally different, but then is not now and we have to live with what we have. Or, as an alternative, we could store our audio data as files instead of redbook. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31564 Re: File copying -vs- digital audio copying Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/18/2002 8 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:42 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark Matt...shn does not leave gaps between tracks when you put it back together, assuming you burn DAO... Craig > I have a question for Mark or any other SHN experts in here. As was > mentioned here recently, when burning a series of MP3's with continuous > music (ie, no gaps) back into redbook you often get minor > glitches inbetween > each track, where the ripping software leaves a few frames of > silence at the > end of each track. Are you sure the SHN program doesn't do the same? This > wont be an issue on discs with one 45 minute set, but the Bernau disc for > example has about 13 tracks on it. From: 'Michael Jean' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:10 pm Subject: Region Free DVD NTSC/PAL Can anyone with experience using these type of machines contact me off list. Regards, Michael A. Jean The Brookings Institution, Room 821 1775 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20036-2188 TEL: (202)-797-6214 FAX: (202)-797-2479 EMAIL: mjean@b... http://www.brookings.edu From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:38 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Regarding this tree/formats/etc., etc. Well, I've been sitting through all this in lurk mode (and, thankfully, in digest mode) so I suppose I'd better put in my two'penny worth. I suppose I'm one of the old fashioned types who knows bugger all about computers, burners, red books, SHN's, and all the other wonderful new recording packages still to come (SISTER [Super Incredible Sounds To Excite Romboys], and DIJAF-AIB [Downloads In Just A Flash - And It's Brilliant]... ;-). I'm going to settle as a leaf (Anyone in Poland being a branch?). But the point Martin makes is clear - and that's what kind of concerns me. There are now well over 400 list members here and many of them will just sit and take all this in, being in lurk mode only. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the crop... and it's goodbye not just to the whole project, but any further TD cooperation that exists, many esteemed listmembers and this particular list's credibility. And a very upset Heiko, who could end up talking to his heroes in court because of some greedy idiot. I know it's stating the obvious but PLEASE, everyone... let's treat this project with respect, be thankful for such a marvellous opportunity, and don't be that one individual who will spoil it for the rest of us BIGTIME. Okay, that's it, back to sleep now... Roger Hartopp -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave Files Etc. At 04:00 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >so i hope i get a >branch that is willing to not only burn cdrs but is >also willing to do covers for me. what are the chances >of that happening? my thinking is next to none. If you were my leaf, you'd get both. I hope that is the spirit of this all. It's not like each branch will have so many leaves they can't help out someone who can't get all the goods. Geeez. We were all there at some point. Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree At 11:05 AM 01/18/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Sooner or later it all comes back to me. I hope (and >believe) that no-one of the participants will do this, but in case it >happens I >will cut off the tree immediately, I think all will be okay. This list is fairly 'confined' as opposed to some others and I doubt any of this would find it's way to say, Ebay. If it does, there are processes already in place by another list I am on to deal with that person. Trust me, it works. We've shut down a couple of big time profiteers for good. Mike From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron most likely not. I was more looking for wave. I will take a look and see what I can pipe into. I have not bought a sampler yet. I been using the computer to get by. Was going to buy the Korg simple one. Maybe I better review some more before spending. Thanks Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron > In a message dated 1/18/2002 12:34:17 AM Central Standard Time, > admin@k... writes: > > > > Anybody know where one can find samples of a mellotron? What I am looking > > for are wave format of each instrument as found in mellotrons. I have a > > crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > > > dale > > > > *There's a CD that Mike Pinder of the Moody Blues put out that has all the > classic 'Tron samples. I am very partial to it. > I think it's in AKAI format if that's compatible with your sampler. > Poly > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31613 Re: mellotron TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Mon 1/21/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: mellotrons? I am not ready yet to describe it. It may be so crazy it should never be spoken of in public. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Eric Williamson' To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:22 AM Subject: [tadream] RE: mellotrons? > dale said: > > I have a crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > Now that someone's pointed you in the right direction, what's your crazy idea? > > Eric Williamson > www.suitandtieguy.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31576 Re: mellotrons? Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Understood. So for the record, if you are one of my leafs, I will be keeping a record of just what and when. I rather enjoy my freedom. Last I checked, they don't allow music equipment in jail. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Dear list, just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and spiritual property. - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve any profit-making. - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years past. Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] File copying -vs- digital audio copying fairly accurate. most cd burners, at least the newer ones, have some memory. The Yamahas I have right now are 8 meg. I think the one at my house is 16 meg. I do not believe they do anything else except to buffer the write, not playback. If I see anything else I will comment later. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: 'Tadream' Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 5:25 AM Subject: [tadream] File copying -vs- digital audio copying > I have not put [tree] in the subject line because what I have to write is general knowledge. > > What is the difference between copying a file from one disk (disc) to another, and copying digital audio (i.e., ripping redbook)? It's all digital, isn't it? > > Facts to know before details > ============================ > 1 - Digital audio is a real time process, file copying isn't. > 2 - CD players do have sample and hold circuits, disk drives don't. > 3 - CD players do have audio filters, disk drives don't. > 4 - CD players don't have built-in memory, disk drives do. > > [Knowledgeble people should hold off replying 'til the end as I'm going to tell some half-truths, but clear them up at the end.] > > Detail 1 > ======== > How long does it take to copy 1 sector of data from your hard disk to, for example, a floppy disk? Answer: it varies. Does that matter? Answer: not much. > > How long does it take a CD player to 'play' 1 sector of data? Answer: somewhere around 1 second. Does that matter? Answer: it sure does! > > Detail 2 > ======== > What happens if a CD player has an error? Answer: It's digital sample and hold circuit retains the last good audio sample value and uses that to fill in. > > What happens if a disk drive has an error? Answer: The data is thown away and the sector is reread on the next disk revolution -- CD players can't afford the time it takes to do this. > > Detail 3 > ======== > What happens to the sound if the sample and hold in a CD player has to retain the last good audio sample? Answer: The slight error produced in the audio wave will be smoothed out by analog audio filters (inaudible) before it gets to the output. Of course, if there are a long string of errors, the held value gets too far from reality and when reality catches up, 'tick'. > > Can sample and hold be used to help disk drives? Answer: No. The bit patterns in data and programs have a much more seemingly random character and fill-in is not possible. Even one bit error while loading a program may crash the machine. Even one bit error in a data file may cause Mark Filipak to receive a 1 million dollar check in the mail. > > Detail 4 > ======== > Unlike hard disks and data-formatted CDRs, redbook uses a spiral as the music (data) track instead of concentric rings because CD players don't have any memory. They don't have any memory because back around 1980 when CD audio was first engineered, memory was very expensive. It's way too late to change that. > > Redbook: Look Ma, no memory > =========================== > The redbook format was specifically designed to allow playback without memory. CDs are formatted as a continuous spiral so that the laser optic pickup doesn't have to start and stop, but can be pushed at a (relatively) constant rate. Also, by doing this the CD player doesn't need to buffer (or cache) the audio data, but instead, merely streams it out in real time. > > Hard disk drives and computer CD-ROM drives must have at least enough memory to buffer one sector (called a 'sector cache') and most have enough memory to cache through track-to-track seeks to improve performance. > > Redbook: A quasi-digital medium > =============================== > You can see that redbook is actually a quasi-digital medium. The stored (waveform) data IS digital, but it is read by an analog control process. To the contrary, CDRs that have been formatted to hold DATA FILES (non-redbook) are formatted with concentric rings and use folders and everything else that comes with data file structures, just like a hard disk. The data is digital AND the way the data is stored and retrieved is also digital -- the laser optic pickup jumps back and forth from track to track. > > It is the constant motion of the laser optic pickup and the 'hunting' characteristic that I wrote about yesterday that creates the problems with ripping redbook audio. > > Clearing up the half-truths > =========================== > Though it is true that, unlike CD players, computer CD-ROM drives DO have memory, they often don't use it for audio (mine doesn't). And though DAE (digital audio extraction) in a computer's CD-ROM drive is SUPPOSED to read around the sample and hold, it doesn't in many CD-ROM drives. And though most quality CD players have error correction, most computer CD-ROM drives either don't, or they use it only when accessing file structures, but not audio -- further explanation: audio data error correction and file data error correction are two different things (when in redbook mode, the CD-ROM drive's microprocessor operates in a completely different manner and runs completely different internal programs). > > In the present world of cheap memory, if redbook was being invented now, it would be totally different, but then is not now and we have to live with what we have. > > Or, as an alternative, we could store our audio data as files instead of redbook. > > Ciao -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:08 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Thank you Martin! As we state emphatically at the very beginning of the Tree page in 'The Premier Rule', 'we will cooperate fully with TDI to pursue, prosecute and litigate to the fullest extent possible,' should we discover that anyone is selling any of these CDs. We also mention that we will be watching, and we will! We have some pretty rabid collectors here, and they keep an ever-vigilant eye on ebay.com, always looking for stuff. It is not hard to trace transactions, and ebay cooperates with this kind of investigation also, and there are other means as well. A couple of people contacted me off-list, asking if this (Martin's message) will derail the project or change it in any way. Quite the contrary! He's just reaffirming the positions that we have already stated: Martin says that 'we will investigate the list members first,' and if you think about it, of course this would be the most logical place to start, wouldn't it? Not only that, but he will have our help! The people who need to worry are the ones who intend to sell the discs - and note that I'm saying 'sell', not 'make profit from'. This all goes back to my advice about it being better not exchanging cash AT ALL, and I'll advance that advice to say 'not even for postage'. I mean, how cheap can you get? I just got a packet in the mail last week with 8 discs in a bubblewrapper. The postage in the US was only $1.60! The blanks may have cost, what - about the same? Come on. Ultimately, it is up to you and your branchline about exchanging postage fees, but I'm not going to bother with it; let's just have fun. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So, let's make it clear right now: by participating in this tree, you are by default agreeing to 'The Premier Rule' stated on the tree info page. If you have a problem with this, you can contact me off-list and I unceremoniously remove your name from the Participants List. If so, click here: mailto:tadream-owner@yahoogroups.com?subject=I_can't_control_my_greed!_pleas e_remove_me_from_the_tree +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Finally, from my perspective, I'm putting my time and effort into this, Heiko and the artists are too, and YOU will be when you get your discs. If I personally discover that anyone is jeopardizing the tolerant latitude that Martin and TDI are giving to us, it will certainly PISS me off to the ultimate end. I will F**K YOU UP as bad as I can (legally). I HOPE all of you can laugh at that statement because you know that it will never have a chance of applying to you. ;-) Sincerely and respectfully, Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: TDI MUSIC- Martin K. [mailto:manager@t...] > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:28 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree > > > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing > like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody > else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does > not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every > action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' > surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. > Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence > than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to > make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also > want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:54 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] tour personnel One correction: Australia 1975 (including Royal Albert Hall, UK) lineup: Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Michael Hoenig. (Peter took off to Tibet...) > -----Original Message----- > Tour personnel from 1974-1977 was Edgar Froese, Peter > Baumann, Chris Franke. > > Tour personnel for 1978 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Steve > Joliffe, > Klaus Krieger (I think). > > Tour personnel for 1980-1984 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Johannes > Schmoelling. > > Tour personnel for 1986-1987(?) was Edgar Froese, Chris > Franke, Paul Haslinger Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31637 tour personnel olle.rundgren@s... Wed 1/23/2002 3 KB 31643 Re: tour personnel Owens, James Wed 1/23/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN > -----Original Message----- > From: meta_mythos [mailto:blackmirage@e...] > Interesting, took 24 hours for my last post to appear in Yahoo, > what's that all about ? > Anyway... all new subscribers are on moderated status by default upon subscribing. There are several reasons, but mostly to prevent spam and to make sure people aren't nut cases. ;-) I upgraded you to unmoderated status the opther day when I saw your message in the approval queue. Joe From: 'John Vertical' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices >i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 >months >before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed up >for >sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape >set >that is all over 'Monolight' on Encore. > >i am _so_ kicking myself now ... they only wanted 30 dollars for it. (I know this is a somewhat lousy topic, but we need something besides the tree/formats discussion.) That happens to be also one of my most favourite voices. Here are some others: -choral in Alpha Centauri -final squirgling voice in Atem, just before the outro drums -last main voice in Phaedra -last sequence in Ricochet Part 2 -bass in Cloudburst Flight -breathy sighes in Horizon (first quarter) -transistion voice at ~11.30 in Livemiles (Albuquerque Concert) -main sequence of Dolls in the Shadow Of course this is just a very very small excerpt of all the great unique voices in TD music... John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31578 Re: mellotron & good voices 3N Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31584 Re: mellotron & good voices Mark Filipak Sat 1/19/2002 3 KB 31612 Re: mellotron & good voices TheInfection Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN sorry- meant for off-list. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Shoults [mailto:jshoults@f...] > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:39 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: meta_mythos [mailto:blackmirage@e...] > > Interesting, took 24 hours for my last post to appear in Yahoo, > > what's that all about ? > > Anyway... > > > all new subscribers are on moderated status by default upon > subscribing. > There are several reasons, but mostly to prevent spam and to make sure > people aren't nut cases. ;-) > > I upgraded you to unmoderated status the opther day when I > saw your message > in the approval queue. > > Joe > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:44 pm Subject: updated lyrics Just a note: I've corrected the lyrics for most of the tracks from Tyger (what was there before was just the poems as written, not as used on the album). Joe has kindly uploaded the corrections to the archives section of tadream.net The biggest change is the lyrics to London, which is actually taken from 4 separate Blake poems (if you include 'The Fly' as part of London). James From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:10 pm Subject: OT: plugin to play SHN in Winamp? someone mentioned you can play SHN files in winamp with a plugin I'm trying to find the plugin on winamp.com without success. anyone know where to find this? TIA, Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31572 Re: OT: plugin to play SHN in Winamp? atye@a... Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: atye@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: plugin to play SHN in Winamp? http://www.etree.org/shnamp.html :-) (Google knows ALLLLLLL) Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:43 pm Subject: now for something completely different are we nearing a release date yet for part one of dante's trilogy? and what are the continuing TD prospects for 2002? part two live in purgatory, er Atlanta? has anyone found Jerome's latest single for sale on the net, yet?--from ground-liftaz I see it's available at a couple of shops.... --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: tangram12@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:51 pm Subject: wants list update hi everyone i have just updated my wants list, please have a look to see if you can help me out on anything :-) thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31583 Re: wants list update Piotr'Millennium' Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB From: '3N' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Warsaw, Poland 1983 Information Hello Mr Moulder! (not only never trust a boot label, but trust no one!) I must add something for your information. ----- Original Message ----- From: Morgan Feldon > The afternoon Warsaw 1983 concert had no power outages. > > The evening Warsaw 1983 concert had ONE power outage at 10 minutes, 7 > seconds into the music. After a couple of minutes, they were able to > resume, playing the typical 'bridge' after the first movement of Poland. Generally you're right, but in details the truth is out there ( ;)) ). I tell once more - I was on both warsaws shows and I remeber what happened. It was exactly inverse. The first show started about 4PM after more than 2 hours from the moment of open doors. I was in the first row, very close to the stage - 4-5 meters from Johannes, so I can precisely see what he (and Mr Sequencer ;)) ) doing. Few minutes after 4PM it resound, like a gong, first acord from Hyperborea - we start shout, but the stage is still covered by a curtain. Only from speakers start to talk Mr. Kordowicz about history of TD (It was a first, but not last, lie - in this time he was in Sweden ;))) ). After this, lights out and from behind a curtain appear a light smoke; from speakers wind 'blows' and with curtains set apart 'thunders' the first acord from Poland. I see that those acords 'play' Johannes, but I think thats all is from quasimidi-sequencers. The music is very rythmic and very loudly and it grow up and grow up more!! (My ears! - for the next week I nonstop heard in right ear the sound of bells ;)) ). Now Johannes play a own solo and unexpect they stop all. I hear only the last beat's echo from hall. It's very strange - the start piece wasn't bad but why so short? And why stops in so unexpected moment?? On stoned Ed's face I see first a big astonishment and now, yes, he is looking on Chris and they normally laugh at this situation! (where is a candid camera???) But I just know - it wasn't a normally end of first part of music. It's true - the lights in hall and again closed a curtain. 'It was the shortest performance of Tangerine' with anxiety I talk to somebody. But for the next twenty (or more) minutes we haven't any information what's happening. But lights out, curtain is open again and musicans play further, ufff. It wasn't others failure in show, but for this breaks after the second part (ohh yes with a big woman in a black frock, who with a russian accent told same big nonsenses - KievMission in Polish: oh no, thanks, never more!!!) was _only_ one encore: of course it was Choronzon. Second show start with one hour delay (because I have tickets for both shows I can check on whitch time was planed start of second show) - nightmare for the entrances: crush, police, truncheons (for me too), tear-gas - I don't know in which case I can go so fast from exit that I came to entranced door in the first wave of people - for this day it was like a miracle. Thanks God. But in the evening show all was in the highest perfect - maybe in fact, that was a TV? But for me TV were disturb - in both parts of evenig show was on very lighten reflectors - it killed an atmospheric of Tangerines music. Only encores (Choronzon, WhiteEagle/DasMadchenAufDerTreppe and RareBird) was without this terible light. WhiteEagle was enchanting - it was completly dark, but people lights in own hands 'a little stars' and on the stages screen a big Earth seemed from space... I don't saw when they entranced in stage, maybe those indistinct shadows? But all of a sudden I see that on Chris' 'box' starts a red leds - in left row, on moment in right row... and form speakers it play sweet plumm, plumm, plamm plamm, pleem, pleem pleem plim ;))). Yes, in this time I was in the most true tangerine dream with marmelade skies. OK, end, basta. The rest is a silence. > > The best possible bootleg of the afternoon and evening shows is 'Dreaming > on Ice Stadium', but even it has tracks out of sequence and many > mislabelings (never trust a boot label!), probably due to language > translation. Once all the tracks have been reshuffled, it's a decent > quality bootleg (6/10) that, with some TLC (pitch adjustment and filtering) > could be even better. Of course could and _would_ be better - but it was my first work with remestered old and very dirty sounds. But I think that in this year I make a different version of this - only the afternoon show, but the whole and in actually order. The reverse order of discs, order of some _bonus_ tracks, strange polish labels - that all was my conscious decision (I _hate_ names like 'track one, track twos, track drei, czwartos, feltos' and who knows). This boot was prepared for my polish friends from polish TD-fanlist, only. It's funny how much _friends_ I have. No matter. Morgan, you must check that the first disk is from _second_ show, and second disc - from first (afternoons). In this fact you have the _whole_ set one (let be Poland) from evening show (why? because it was in much better quality) on the first disc, and the _whole_ set two (Horizon and so on) from the afternoon show on the second. Other tracks are only as bonus (on first some other pieces from evening, on second - of course from afteroon with the famous break). That's all. with the best oranges regards agent FBI - Sculy ;)) 'The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going' PS. I think, if we talk so clesely about this, I must confess, that in my production I make an another small lie too. Actual tempo of music from polish shows was a bit speeder and key about 80 cents higher. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Czy w Polsce mozna zyc 111 lat? >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ciekawostki/news?inf=219835 From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: mellotrons? >I am not ready yet to describe it. It may be so crazy it should never be >spoken of in public. Now you got me curious indeed! :) GJ np: Quichotte part 1 (climax, 13:40) - man, I just love that chord Froese keeps repeating over and over, underlining all that great music. And that thing of repeating chords is just SO Froese!! Great, great. And then after the climax there's That Solo, great great great. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:54 pm Subject: [trade] Brazilian Haslinger's Score Hi folks, I'm not exactly a constant trader (and thankfully, not a collector either), but I do like to trade whenever there's the possibility. I'd like to know, would anyone like to have Haslinger's [very good BTW] album, Score, __made in Brazil__? I know where I can find one, we could arrange a trade then. BTW, the cover and booklet are exactly the same as the American version, except that it's made in Brazil and, of course, you can see that on the back cover and on the CD. And this one CD I'm talking about is in perfect conditions, still on the shelf waiting to be bought, and I'm pretty sure it'll be there for a long time. I'm not looking exactly for anything other than original albums by Tangerine Dream or Klaus Schulze (Schulze, specially) that I don't have, or anything else that could be interesting. You know, these albums are hard to find here, and when you do find (and I know where to find them), they're quite expensive. The imported CDs price nowadays is quite suffocating. Even CDs made here have been getting absurdly more and more expensive! Can't wait for my KS's In Blue, though. It should arrive someday in late January, ordered by catalog. Here's a very quick list of albums I'm looking forward to hear, but of course there are [many] others: Body Love 1 and 2, Interface, Live (the new version) (if you can offer that Live we have a deal), En=trance, Beyond Recall, Are You Sequenced, the Ultimate Edition 50CD box (ahem ;) not going to see one such box in a long time, probably never). If any of the collectors out there are interested, please let me know in private. There's a list of albums I have, if you want I can send it to you. It's in a nicely edited Excel file. I'll be near that store tomorrow morning, so if you reply soon, maybe I can get the CD tomorrow and maybe even send it the same day. I'll check my mail again later tonight before going to sleep. GJ playing: Quichotte part 2 (great great great... and what a guitar! don't care if it's not the original, it's just great :) p.s. [tree] working on covers for our tree... the artwork folks (myself included) are doing quite a good job! ;) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: '3N' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:32 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices HeY! ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vertical To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices > >i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 > >months > >before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed up > >for > >sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape Sorry, but I haven't the first news for this thread (??) - can anybody help me and give me an address of this synthesiser list? with regards JerzyK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Czy w Polsce mozna zyc 111 lat? >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ciekawostki/news?inf=219835 From: 'ftsmythe' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:45 am Subject: Re: [tree] regarding this tree I respectfully submit to Mr. Kasprzak that he may wish to consult his own lawyer before making arbitrary comments suggesting the ability to 'investigate the list members first.' As a member of this list who is not participating in this trading tree, I would take any 'investigation' into my person as a result of this tree nothing short of a hostile act. Mr. Kasprzak should carefully consider his words before penning such a testosterone-inspired chest pounding. TDI is far from an empowered policing or investigative agent, and has perhaps just bitten off more than it can chew with this imprudent threat. I too am sorry for the tone, but I don't take such things lightly, and neither should any member of this list. FTS --- In tadream@y..., 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! From: 'Admin' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:57 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] regarding this tree Perhaps some of us are more laid back and understand just what he was saying. I did not take it as a threat to me. A cautious warning, yes. I know I would be thinking the same if I was TD. Perhaps even more. dale ----- Original Message ----- From: 'ftsmythe' To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 5:45 PM Subject: [tadream] Re: [tree] regarding this tree I respectfully submit to Mr. Kasprzak that he may wish to consult his own lawyer before making arbitrary comments suggesting the ability to 'investigate the list members first.' As a member of this list who is not participating in this trading tree, I would take any 'investigation' into my person as a result of this tree nothing short of a hostile act. Mr. Kasprzak should carefully consider his words before penning such a testosterone-inspired chest pounding. TDI is far from an empowered policing or investigative agent, and has perhaps just bitten off more than it can chew with this imprudent threat. I too am sorry for the tone, but I don't take such things lightly, and neither should any member of this list. FTS --- In tadream@y..., 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: KMJ Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:36 am Subject: Re: [tree] regarding this tree >-----Original Message----- >From: ftsmythe > >I respectfully submit to Mr. Kasprzak that he may wish to consult >his own lawyer before making arbitrary comments suggesting >the ability to 'investigate the list members first.' As a member of >this list who is not participating in this trading tree, I would take >any 'investigation' into my person as a result of this tree nothing >short of a hostile act. Hey Dude, CHILL OUT!!!!!!!! If you're doing nothing wrong, there's nothing for you to get so worked up over. Kevin Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31582 Re: [tree] regarding this tree C. Chambers Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 7:51 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] regarding this tree > Hey Dude, > > CHILL OUT!!!!!!!! If you're doing nothing wrong, there's nothing > for you to > get so worked up over. > My thoughts exactly!! I think with all reason, that even if someone were trying to profit that TDI would only be focusing on the folks that are on the tree, which will be public...since you so eloquently informed us you are not on the tree, then what is your worry? Craig From: 'Piotr\'Millennium\'' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:14 am Subject: Re: [tadream] wants list update Hi, I also need of Your help Here is my want list: http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/Poszukiwane/poszukiwane.html Here are my to trade: http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/Wymiana/wymiana.html Pozdrawiam Piotr S. Millennium http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/ > hi everyone > i have just updated my wants list, please have a look to see if you can help > me out on anything :-) > thanks > > Duncan McKee From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices Here ya go Jerzy (and any one else, too) analogue-subscribe@h... Ciao -- Mark 3N wrote: > > HeY! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Vertical > To: > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 6:24 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices > > > >i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 > > >months > > >before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed > up > > >for > > >sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape > > Sorry, but I haven't the first news for this thread (??) - can anybody help > me and give me an address of this synthesiser list? > > with regards > JerzyK > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Czy w Polsce mozna zyc 111 lat? > >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ciekawostki/news?inf=219835 > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 1:47 am Subject: FW: [goblinsclub] TD related CD rarity or not? Posted on another TD group. No-one has answered yet. Any one got an answer for this guy? KB. -----Original Message----- From: koulos [mailto:koulos@s...] Sent: 13 January 2002 14:38 To: goblinsclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: [goblinsclub] TD realted cd rarieteor not? hi i am kostas from greece and this has got its way to my hands and i am wondering if it is a TD-rarity or not i have made some scans of it so as to check em the adress the jpg are is the folllowing it is a cd provided by a greek magazine named AUDIO in July 1996 http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/cover.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/backcover.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/front.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/back.jpg it contains one Td track [the last one in the CD as a bonus track] and it is virtyally fields from DM I anyway i am just wondering if anyone else knows of this cd or not some reply would be aprecciated kostas Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31590 Re: FW: [goblinsclub] TD related CD rarity or not vic rek Sun 1/20/2002 3 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:10 am Subject: Re: [tadream] boot [ bilbao , spain 1976 ] Hi ALFT! I hope my pacakge arrived safely. Please let me know if you have mailed the Tangerine Dream CD-Rs. Where you going to include the remastered CD-Rs and the originals too? Thank you, Vic Rek 13010 Crabapple Lake Drive Roswell Georgia 30076-4261 USA From: 'Bennett' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:53 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True MP3 Rather than a MP3 tree, Could we post MP3 files for download somewhere? Or even disk images of audio disks if we had the room. Can we temporarly buy space on tadream site? This saves postage, CD-ROM issues, etc. Maybe one big zip file and use a program that allows you to download very large data in multiple sessions if necessary, something like the real download or the MicroSoft equalivant. I would rather download overnight than deal with snail mail and money issues... --Bennett From: 'vic rek' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 6:14 am Subject: Haslinger - Crazy/Beautiful I just picked up a soundtrack titled 'Crazy/Beautiful' on the German Edel label 0130962HWR. The curiosity here is that track 16 'I Want to Believe You' is written and produced by Lori Carson and Paul Haslinger. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31627 Re: Haslinger - Crazy/Beautiful Owens, James Tue 1/22/2002 3 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 6:17 am Subject: Re: [tadream] boot [ bilbao , spain 1976 ] Sorry guys and gals for my embassing reply that was intended off list. Now the whole world knows :-) From: 'vic rek' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 6:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] FW: [goblinsclub] TD related CD rarity or not? I guess this CD can be considered scarce. I know of a few collectors that have this but it rarely pops up for sale. There is also another Greek sampler with 'Virtually Fields' titled AUTO CD-2, which is a similar title to 'Audio CD-22' CD which is reference below. > i am kostas from greece and this has got its way to my hands and i am > wondering if it is a TD-rarity or not > > i have made some scans of it so as to check em the adress the jpg are is the > folllowing > > it is a cd provided by a greek magazine named AUDIO in July 1996 > > http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/cover.jpg > http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/backcover.jpg > http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/front.jpg > http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/back.jpg > > it contains one Td track [the last one in the CD as a bonus track] and it is > virtyally fields from DM I From: 'Daniel Hobrecht' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 10:46 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1198 I know it's stating the obvious but PLEASE everyone... let's treat this project with respect, be thankful for such a marvelous opportunity, and don't be that one individual who will spoil it for the rest of us BIGTIME. Okay, that's it, back to sleep now... Roger Hartopp Thank You- Everyone please reread this and give thanks Heiko has even tried to pull off this project and not just thrown in the towel out of frustration at such bickering. Just my 2 cents worth DPH Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31604 [tree] Thanks Heiko! syensen Mon 1/21/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 10:56 am Subject: Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? Does 'Tatort' mean 'Crime Scene' or just 'scene'? The 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode of 'Tatort' was first broadcast on WDTV in August, 1982. Do you know what day? In 1982, Virgin released a 12 inch vinyl single in Germany (600 651-213) containing 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe', 'Flock', 'Katja', and 'Speed'. Was the name of this 'Die Melodie aus dem Gleichnamigen', or was the word 'Tatort' also in the name? Does 'Die Melodie aus dem Gleichnamigen' mean 'The melody from the same name'? Here is what I have for 'Tatort': From 'Kassensturz' episode [?? ??? 1976] - -unknown tune?- From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] - 'Flock' From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] - 'Katja' From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] - 'Speed' From 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode [?? Aug 1982] - 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' From 'Miriam' episode [?? ??? 1983] - 'Daydream' - 'Moorland' From 'Bis zum Hals im Dreck' episode [?? ??? 1991] - 'I Just Want To Rule My Own Life Without You' - 'One Night In Medina' Can you help eliminate some of the question marks (?) above? Are there any other episodes of 'Tatort' that had TD music? All help is appreciated. Ciao -- Mark From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:53 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? A few of your questions might be answered at the following address: http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/singles/webpages/madchen.html By the way, you're forgetting the episode called 'Heisser Schnee' which was probably broadcast in 1983 or 1984. As for the 4 tracks on the 12 inch maxi single, I think it's likely that all the tracks were used for the same episode. Paul ---------- >De : Mark Filipak >À : Tadream >Objet : [tadream] Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? >Date : Dim 20 jan 2002 11:56 > > Does 'Tatort' mean 'Crime Scene' or just 'scene'? > > The 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode of 'Tatort' was first broadcast on > WDTV in August, 1982. Do you know what day? > > In 1982, Virgin released a 12 inch vinyl single in Germany (600 651-213) > containing 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe', 'Flock', 'Katja', and 'Speed'. Was > the name of this 'Die Melodie aus dem Gleichnamigen', or was the word > 'Tatort' also in the name? > > Does 'Die Melodie aus dem Gleichnamigen' mean 'The melody from the same name'? > > Here is what I have for 'Tatort': > > From 'Kassensturz' episode [?? ??? 1976] > - -unknown tune?- > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > - 'Flock' > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > - 'Katja' > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > - 'Speed' > From 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode [?? Aug 1982] > - 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' > From 'Miriam' episode [?? ??? 1983] > - 'Daydream' > - 'Moorland' > From 'Bis zum Hals im Dreck' episode [?? ??? 1991] > - 'I Just Want To Rule My Own Life Without You' > - 'One Night In Medina' > > Can you help eliminate some of the question marks (?) above? > > Are there any other episodes of 'Tatort' that had TD music? > > All help is appreciated. > > Ciao -- Mark From: Antonio Nunes Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 1:58 pm Subject: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? I have a question about the bootleg 'Spherical Harmonics'. The back cover says 'Live in New Haven 9/9/88' but searching the web I've found a few sites of tadream members where this boot is listed as Boston 6/9/88. Does anyone know for sure if 'Spherical Harmonics' is from Boston (Somerville) or New Haven? Anyone from this list was preset at any of those shows? Antonio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31595 Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Have Antonio Nunes Sun 1/20/2002 2 KB 31596 Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Have Michael A Jean Sun 1/20/2002 3 KB 31597 Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Have Michael A Jean Sun 1/20/2002 4 KB 31598 Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Have Antonio Nunes Sun 1/20/2002 2 KB 31599 Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Have Mark Filipak Sun 1/20/2002 3 KB 31606 Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Have Klaus Beschorner Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 2:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? I wrote: > > Anyone from this list was preset at any of those shows? Oops, I mean present, not preset :-) Antonio From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 2:19 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? I attended the Chicago show in 1988 (which was the first date of the tour) so I would aay that the Sept date is the correct one. MJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:np97fa@m...] > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 8:59 AM > To: tadream > Subject: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? > > > I have a question about the bootleg 'Spherical Harmonics'. The back > cover says 'Live in New Haven 9/9/88' but searching the web I've found a > few sites of tadream members where this boot is listed as Boston 6/9/88. > Does anyone know for sure if 'Spherical Harmonics' is from Boston > (Somerville) or New Haven? Anyone from this list was preset at any of > those shows? > > Antonio > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31597 Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Have Michael A Jean Sun 1/20/2002 4 KB From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 2:32 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? Sorry...I left out the part about the first 1988 show being in late August.... The 86 tour did occur during the month of June. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael A Jean [mailto:michaeljean@e...] > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 9:20 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven > Sep.9? > > > I attended the Chicago show in 1988 (which was the first date of the tour) > so I would aay that the Sept date is the correct one. > > MJ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:np97fa@m...] > > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 8:59 AM > > To: tadream > > Subject: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? > > > > > > I have a question about the bootleg 'Spherical Harmonics'. The back > > cover says 'Live in New Haven 9/9/88' but searching the web I've found a > > few sites of tadream members where this boot is listed as Boston 6/9/88. > > Does anyone know for sure if 'Spherical Harmonics' is from Boston > > (Somerville) or New Haven? Anyone from this list was preset at any of > > those shows? > > > > Antonio > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Antonio Nunes Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 2:40 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? Michael A Jean wrote: > > I attended the Chicago show in 1988 (which was the first date of the tour) > so I would aay that the Sept date is the correct one. Sept 6 or Sept 9? All sites I've visited and also Scott's book agree in that there was a show in Boston, Somerville on Sept 6, and a show in New Haven on Sept 9. My question is, which of these shows is 'Spherical Harmonics' from? Antonio From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 3:50 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? I believe that 'Spherical Harmonics 1 & 2' are the show at the Palace Theater, New Haven on 9 Sep 88. The 6 Sep 88 Somerville/Boston show is on the boot 'At the Mountains of Madness'. Cioa -- Mark Antonio Nunes wrote: > > Michael A Jean wrote: > > > > I attended the Chicago show in 1988 (which was the first date of the tour) > > so I would aay that the Sept date is the correct one. > > Sept 6 or Sept 9? All sites I've visited and also Scott's book agree in > that there was a show in Boston, Somerville on Sept 6, and a show in New > Haven on Sept 9. My question is, which of these shows is 'Spherical > Harmonics' from? > > Antonio > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: 'Thomas Bertilsson' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 5:08 pm Subject: Rubycon SACD Hi everyone, I don't know where this thread lead, since I havn't had the time to read the digests in a couple of weeks. But, I did purchase the SACD and wanted to share what I heard when I listened to it. First of all, it will blow the socks off of any other CD release of Rubycon out there. It is so superior that it's stupid. I quote what's written on the extra booklet included: 'The CD was a good idea'. But this is so much better. They solved every problem CD ever had with resolution and extended frequency response (theoretically) to 100 kHz from 20 kHz. This means that practically you can make full use of the frequency response of old analog master tapes, just like the vinyl record. In my opinion vinyl still sounds more punchy, relaxed and more natural in detail than what SACD and especially CD does. But with this new format digital is moving closer. Not quite there yet though, but as an audiophile, I could easily live happily with the sound of SACD for the rest of my life. To get the full range of the SACD you need a dedicated player, but the beauty is that they are backwards compatible with all CD players too, and the first layer (out of two) contains that information, while all the audio information for SACD is hidden in the layer beyond. Good news is that there are some SACD players out there now for around $300. I havn't heard those players, the one I heard was more expensive, about $1200. These will of course play normal CD's too. Upcoming are also machines that will be multiplayers accepting CD, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, DVD-Audio and, of course, SACD. Both multichannel and two channel. A dream come true in this war of different standards. If you want to go the cheaper way, just buy a good turntable though. In my opinion, it still sounds better than any of the above. And the records are cheap. Thomas St.Paul, MN _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: tadreaming@c... Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:31 am Subject: Ashra Belle Alliance. Hello, in case someone maybe interested, I'm listing Belle Alliance at half.com for 29.99 on CD, it's a very rare Ashra album these days. Sorry to spam if you consider this to be. Martyn C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: KMJ Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 6:51 am Subject: 1976 Show/Venue Question I have a double disc set simply entitled 'Virtual Files 76-08'. Could someone please tell me where this was recorded and better yet, is there artwork available? Please contact me off-list if you can help. Thanks, Kevin Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31616 Re: 1976 Show/Venue Question C. Chambers Mon 1/21/2002 3 KB 31617 Re: 1976 Show/Venue Question C. Chambers Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB 31619 Re: 1976 Show/Venue Question Chris Owen Mon 1/21/2002 3 KB 31620 Re: 1976 Show/Venue Question KMJ Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB From: 'Yensen, Stephen' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:34 am Subject: Re: boot [ bilbao , spain 1976 ] Vic sez: >Sorry guys and gals for my embassing reply that was intended >off list. Now the whole world knows :-) Okay, let's send the guy a postcard! When's ya birthday, Vic? Cheers, Steve - -- The wages of sin are death - but the wages here are worse. From: 'syensen' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:45 am Subject: [tree] Thanks Heiko! My feelings entirely! I'm sure everybody wants to thank Heiko for his hard work but hasn't said so yet! THANK YOU HEIKO! I can't wait to hear the music! Also I'd like to thank everyone else who is contributing to the distribution, cover designs and generally giving their time and enthusiasm for this very worthwhile project ... Cheers, Steve --- In tadream@y..., 'Daniel Hobrecht' wrote: > > I know it's stating the obvious but PLEASE everyone... let's treat this > project with respect, be thankful for such a marvelous opportunity, and > don't be that one individual who will spoil it for the rest of us > BIGTIME. > > Okay, that's it, back to sleep now... > Roger Hartopp > > Thank You- Everyone please reread this and give thanks Heiko has even > tried to pull off this project and not just thrown in the towel out of > frustration at such bickering. > > Just my 2 cents worth > DPH From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:18 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Thanks Heiko & concert list > I'm sure everybody wants to thank Heiko for his hard work but hasn't > said so yet! > > THANK YOU HEIKO! I can't wait to hear the music! aaahh...what a nice email on a dull Monday morning :-) To be honest, I never thought that my idea would raise so much excitement/confusion/discussion (please choose what you think fits best for you ;-) Now I can only hope that I will meet the expectations of those who are in the 'tree'. I now have a list of concerts for the first batch which is pretty much set in stone, but it's not already confirmed. What's sure is that the first batch will consist of 10 cdr's. Volume 1: Nottingham Albert Hall 08 November 1976 (remastered 1st generation, incl. adjusted tape speed version (sp?) of the encore, taken from the 'Collected endings' cd) Volume 2: Sheffield City Hall 29 October 1974 (remastered low generation) Volume 3: Bernau St.-Marien-Kirche 07 October 2001 (MD master recording) Volume 4: Warsaw Most Swietokrzyski 31 Aug 2001, main set on 2 CDRs (DAT master) Volume 5: Warsaw Most Swietokrzyski 31 Aug 2001, encores + excerpts of press conference + 'brigde medley' Volume 6: Bilbao Pabellón de la Casilla 31 January 1976, on 2 CDRs (remastered 1st gen.) Volume 7: Croydon Fairfield Hall 23 October 1975 (remastered 1st gen.) Volume 8: Berlin Philharmonie 27 June 1976 (remastered FM broadcast, low gen.) for the branches & leaves this means that everyone who wants to copy in redbook format (recordable CD) will need the following: -two 80 minute CDRs (Bernau 2001 & Nottingham 76 will have a length of ca. 78 minutes) -eight 74 minute CDRs -two double jewel cases -eight single jewel cases > Also I'd like to thank everyone else who is contributing to the > distribution, cover designs and generally giving their time and > enthusiasm for this very worthwhile project ... how true! without their help the tree would not have been possible. Regards Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31626 Re: [tree] Thanks Heiko & concert list syensen Tue 1/22/2002 2 KB 31630 Re: [tree] Thanks Heiko & concert list Roger Hartopp Tue 1/22/2002 5 KB From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:46 am Subject: Re: Spherical Harmonics: Boston Sep.6 or New Haven Sep.9? >I believe that 'Spherical Harmonics 1 & 2' are the show at the Palace >Theater, New Haven on 9 Sep 88. The 6 Sep 88 Somerville/Boston show is >on the boot 'At the Mountains of Madness' Sph.Harmonics is from a soundboard tape of Boston 6.9.88, but from a high generation copy and missing the last encore. AtMoM is the same, but used a complete, low gen. tape. best regards, klaus From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:04 am Subject: Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? >Does 'Tatort' mean 'Crime Scene' or just 'scene'? Crime Scene >The 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode of 'Tatort' was first >broadcast on WDTV in August, 1982. Do you know what day? Nyet. Produced by WDR, a regional 'division' of ARD. First aired on ARD 27.6.82 >Does 'Die Melodie aus dem Gleichnamigen' mean 'The melody from the same >name'? Das Maedchen auf der Treppe - The melody (soundtrack) from the Tatort episode with the same name. logical, isn't it ;-) > From 'Kassensturz' episode [?? ??? 1976] > - -unknown tune?- 15.2.76 , Rubicon or Ricochet, I forgot. > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > - 'Flock' > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > - 'Katja' > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > - 'Speed' > From 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode [?? Aug 1982] > - 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' all from 'Das Mädchen'. > From 'Miriam' episode [?? ??? 1983] > - 'Daydream' > - 'Moorland' 2.4.83 > From 'Bis zum Hals im Dreck' episode [?? ??? 1991] > - 'I Just Want To Rule My Own Life Without You' > - 'One Night In Medina' 9.6.91 >Can you help eliminate some of the question marks (?) above? Whatever significance the day of first broadcast may have, here you've got it... >Are there any other episodes of 'Tatort' that had TD music? Heisser Schnee, 9.9.84, Hyperborea best regards, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31615 Re: Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? richter_arne Mon 1/21/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:11 am Subject: 'Tyger' Hello. To those who have request a look at my chronology, I'm not ignoring you forever. Honest. Would you all look at these two entries. Do you have a contribution on a version of 'Tyger' I missed? Especially, do you know about the French release on the Wotre label? -- search for the question marks (?). How about other releases I missed altogether? Thank you for your help. -- Mark ________________________________________________________________________ Tyger [Feb 87] - EF+CF+PH 1 Tyger 5 Alchemy of the Heart, Pt.2 (vocal intro) [0:31] [2:52] (main vocal) [3:35] 6 Alchemy of the Heart, Pt.3 (chorus to fade) [1:26] [6:16] (three chords) [0:16] 7 Smile [6:12] (vocal) 2 London-The Dungeon [8:09] (voc.) 8 21st Century Common Man Pt.1 (bridge) [1:33] [4:49] 3 London-Rotton Row Patriot [4:43] 9 21st Century Common Man Pt.2 4 Alchemy of the Heart, Pt.1 [4:02] [3:16] 10 Tyger [4:26] %1 (main vocal _______ plus chorus with early fade) __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Key: % excerpt. Actual times: 1-9 from Caroline, CD 1341; 10 from Jive, T 143. All vocals by Jocelyn Bernadette Smith. Also see: Tyger, 1992 reworks & additions [??? 92] _________ __/ Artwork \_________________________________________________________ Cover: Bright blue, bearing TD's circular logo. __________________ __/ Recordings - AAA \________________________________________________ 7' - Segs 9/10 as '21st Century Common Man'/'Tyger' [1987] Jive (GB) 143 [1987] Jive/Zomba (DE) 6.14856 AC [1987] Jive/Weesp (NL) 145.326 12' - Segs 1/9,10 as 'Tyger' [1987] Jive (GB) T 143 [1987] Jive/Zomba (DE) 6.20791 AE LP-2 - Segs 1,2+3/4+5+6,7 (4 tracks) as 'Tyger' [1987] Jive (CA,GB) HIP 47 [1987] Jive/CBS (IL) HIP 47-1 [1987] Caroline/Mortal (US) 1341 [1987] Jive/Messaggeri Musicali [1987] Jive/Teldec (DE) (IT) ZL 71511 C-6.26 475 [1987] Jive (GR) 40021 [1987] Jive/Teldec (DE) 6.26 478 [1988] Jive/Alfa (JP) ALI-28084 [1987] Jive (NL) 656.093 MC - Segs 1,2+3/4+5+6,7 (4 tracks) as 'Tyger' [1987] Jive (CA,GB) HIPC 47 [1987] Jive (NL) 856.093 [1987] Caroline/Mortal (US) [1987] Jive/Messaggeri Musicali MC 1341 (IT) ZK 71511 [1987] Jive/Teldec (DE) 4.26 475 [1997] Metal Mind (PL) CAST 0026 __________________ __/ Recordings - AAD \________________________________________________ CD - Segs 1,2+3,4+5+6,7,8+9 (5 tracks) as 'Tyger' [1987] Jive (GB) CHIP 47 [1987] Jive (NL) 100.097 [1987] Jive/Teldec [1988] Jive/Alfa (DE) 8.26475 ZP (JP) ALFA 32XB-224 CD - Segs 1,2+3,4+5+6,7-9 (6 tracks, track 6 not labeled) as 'Tyger' [1987] Caroline (US/AT) CD 1341 (Notice: CDs spindle marked 'MADE BY KOCH 031.113.000.006.9 CDM02' are mislabeled discs and are not TD!) __________________ __/ Recordings - ??D \________________________________________________ CD - Segs ? as 'Tyger' (unknown cover) [19??] Wotre (FR?) -catalog#?- (does this exist?) ________________________________________________________________________ Tyger, 1992 reworks & additions [??? 92] - EF+JF 1 Tyger @&+ (sped up, echo added 4 Alchemy of the Heart, Pt.1 to vocal, prominent back-beat [2:55] @% (cut intro, sped up) percussion and wood block 5 Alchemy of the Heart, Pt.2 overdubs throughout) [2:52] (instrumental intro) [0:29] ! 6 Alchemy of the Heart, Pt.3 (main vocal) [3:19] @&+ [6:16] (chorus to fade) [1:25] @&+ 7 Smile (1992) [5:54] @ (sped up) 2 London-The Dungeon [8:09] (voc.) 8 21st Century Common Man Pt.1 (bridge) [1:33] [4:49] 3 London-Rotton Row Patriot [4:43] 9 21st Century Common Man Pt.2 + (brighter hi-hat in parts) [4:02] @ (slightly slower) _______ 10 Vigour [4:56] * __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Key: @ edit, % excerpt, & remix, + overdub, ! reperformance, * previously unreleased. Also see original versions: Tyger [Feb 87]. Actual times: 1-10 fr Relativity, 88561-1055-2. More prominent percussion distinguishes all 1992 reworks. Percussion overdubs in 1 are very pronounced. Most fans who stated a preference prefer the original version. Though they are fine, when compared to the originals the sped up vocals sound more like Whitney Houston. _________ __/ Artwork \_________________________________________________________ Cover: Rendering of half of a tiger's face in yellow+brown+white. __________________ __/ Recordings - ADD \________________________________________________ CD - Tracks 1,2+3,4+5+6,7-10 (7 tracks) as 'Tyger' [1992] Rel. (US) 88561-1055-2 [1996] Sequel (US) 1048-2 [1996] Ess. (GB) ESM 367 ________________________________________________________________________ From: edgar-rainer.berberich@g... Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:31 am Subject: Newbei Hello to all Tangerine Dreamers I'm a new member of the PALLAS Mailinglist. At first, don't worry about my english, beacuse it's a long time ago that I have the chance to communicate in english. About the statement The 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode of 'Tatort' was first >broadcast on WDTV in August, 1982. Do you know what day? I'm not sure if the single released for the German Tatort the same as 'Whtie Eagle' from the album the same name ? Mit freundlichem Grüßen Edgar Rainer Berberich ------------------------------------------------------------------- Investmentbanking CS / PC-Server-Systeme Telefon: 069/7447-4207 Telefax: 069/7447-5544 GENO-Rechenzentrum Frankfurt/Main GmbH Hahnstraße 46 60528 Frankfurt am Main Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31610 Re: Newbei Mark Filipak Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB 31611 Re: Newbei Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Newbei Welcome! The weather is fine here. And your English is just fine too. Yes, 'Das Mädchen' and 'White Eagle' are kissing cousins. Ebenso mit freundlichen Grüßen -- Mark (How did I do?) edgar-rainer.berberich@g... wrote: > > Hello to all Tangerine Dreamers > > I'm a new member of the PALLAS Mailinglist. > At first, don't worry about my english, beacuse it's a long time ago that I > have the chance to communicate in english. > > About the statement > > The 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode of 'Tatort' was first > >broadcast on WDTV in August, 1982. Do you know what day? > > I'm not sure if the single released for the German Tatort the same as > 'Whtie Eagle' from the album the same name ? > > Mit freundlichem Grüßen > > Edgar Rainer Berberich From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 10:01 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Newbei > Welcome! The weather is fine here. And your English is just fine too. Yes, 'Das Mädchen' and 'White Eagle' are kissing cousins. the track which was used for the 'Tatort' episode (& the 7'' and 12'' version) was a bit different to the original 'White eagle' album track as it had a steady drum beat. This version hit the German Top Ten single charts in 1982. > Ebenso mit freundlichen Grüßen -- Mark > > (How did I do?) whooaah! From: TheInfection Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 10:15 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices Favourite Mellotron-moments from TD (in chronological order): Atem Rubycon Part 1 Cherokee Lane Monolight Coldwater Canyon Good voices that works everytime for me: Rubycon Part 1: That kong-sound in various moments after 6:00. Monolight: In the beginning of the third theme you can hear those dribble-sounds. Can't remeber now the exact time right now. Coldwater Canyon: The sequence is simple but very cool. NP: Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 10:43 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron At 08:39 18.01.02 , you wrote: >most likely not. I was more looking for wave. I will take a look and see >what I can pipe into. I have not bought a sampler yet. I been using the >computer to get by. Was going to buy the Korg simple one. Maybe I better >review some more before spending. >Thanks > >Administrator for Kay-Net.com >admin@k... >661-723-0266 >Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > Hi, do you use Cubase VST? If yes, try the M-Tron native instrument plugin. It´s got the 'closest to the real thing'- sound I´ve ever heard and is much better than any sample library of the ´Tron that´s on the market. ...plus it´s got all the original tapes and even behaves like the original (sound drops off with a click after 8 sec.) ;-) Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Sun Jan 20, 2002 8:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? Hi Mark, ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: 'Tadream' Sent: 20 January 2002 10:56 Subject: [tadream] Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? > Does 'Tatort' mean 'Crime Scene' or just 'scene'? It means 'crime scene'. > In 1982, Virgin released a 12 inch vinyl single in Germany (600 651-213) containing 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe', 'Flock', 'Katja', and 'Speed'. Was the name of this 'Die Melodie aus dem Gleichnamigen', or was the word 'Tatort' also in the name? Does 'Die Melodie aus dem Gleichnamigen' mean 'The melody from the same name'? 'Die Melodie aus dem gleichnamigen' means 'The melody from the thus-named', and this phrase had the word 'Tatort' added next to it (or underneath?) in some funny designer font. What the whole phrase therefore means is 'The melody from the Tatort [episode] of the same name [Das Maedchen auf der Treppe]'. From: 'richter_arne' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 1:59 pm Subject: Re: Für deutsche Freunde (or anyone): Tatort? --- In tadream@y..., Klaus Beschorner wrote: > >Does 'Tatort' mean 'Crime Scene' or just 'scene'? > Crime Scene > > > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > > - 'Flock' > > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > > - 'Katja' > > From -unknown episode?- [?? ??? ????] > > - 'Speed' > > From 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' episode [?? Aug 1982] > > - 'Das Mädchen auf der Treppe' > > all from 'Das Mädchen' Just to add, the 4 tunes were indeed used in the TV-movie, but they were slightly different from the ones available on the 12', i.e. they were a bit remixed. Also, the TV-movie featured additional TD music that had already been released, specifically there were 2 tracks from EXIT to be heard, so in total the movie featured 6 TD tracks and a few short TD-made music 'effects' snippets of a few seconds length. > > > From 'Miriam' episode [?? ??? 1983] > > - 'Daydream' > > - 'Moorland' > > 2.4.83 This must be wrong, as 2.4.83 was a Saturday, however all Tatort movies run either Sunday night or in case of a public holiday, on Monday night. I also recall having seen the original broadcast and due to surrounding circumstances I am absolutely sure it was not on a Saturday. Regarding the music, again both tracks appeared in a remixed form in the movie. Especially Moorland was much longer, it sounds like the 7' version starts many minutes into the song, whereas the TV version had a long slow intro part, only a few seconds of which can be heard on the single. Basically, the 'missing' part from the Moorland (7') exists on the Soundtrack of 'Wavelength'. The version played on the Tatort show was very similar to the version used in the movie 'The Keep'. From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:50 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] 1976 Show/Venue Question Kevin did you get a response to this? Is this one I sent you? If so, did I not send artwork also? The venue info is: 10/20/76-Stadthalle, Hannover, Germany If you haven't gotten art yet, let me know and I will send it. Craig > -----Original Message----- > From: KMJ [mailto:jowers@t...] > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:51 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] 1976 Show/Venue Question > > > I have a double disc set simply entitled 'Virtual Files 76-08'. Could > someone please tell me where this was recorded and better yet, is there > artwork available? > > Please contact me off-list if you can help. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31617 Re: 1976 Show/Venue Question C. Chambers Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 3:05 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] 1976 Show/Venue Question The obvious OOPS! Sorry folks... > > Kevin did you get a response to this? Is this one I sent you? > If so, did I > not send artwork also? > > The venue info is: > 10/20/76-Stadthalle, Hannover, Germany > > > If you haven't gotten art yet, let me know and I will send it. > From: scfeldman@j... Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 4:17 pm Subject: The Missing Part of 'Moorland' is on the WAVELENGTH OST On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:59:02 -0000 'richter_arne' writes: >[. . .] Basically, the 'missing' part from the Moorland (7') >exists on the Soundtrack of 'Wavelength'. Which track? >[. . .] The version played on the Tatort show was very >similar to the version used in the movie 'The Keep'. Hmmm. -- Steven Feldman , webmaster for the Chang Cheh website at http://changcheh.0catch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32332 Re: The Missing Part of 'Moorland' is on the WAVE richter_arne Sat 2/23/2002 3 KB From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 3:16 am Subject: Re: [tadream] 1976 Show/Venue Question Hi Kevin, From the list I have, Virtual Files 76-08 would be the concert at the Hannover Stadthalle, 20th October 1976, though I hope someone will correct me if this is wrong. It was the opening date of the 1976 Stratosfear European tour. No idea about any artwork though, sorry. - Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: KMJ To: Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 10:51 PM Subject: [tadream] 1976 Show/Venue Question > I have a double disc set simply entitled 'Virtual Files 76-08'. Could > someone please tell me where this was recorded and better yet, is there > artwork available? > > Please contact me off-list if you can help. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > From: KMJ Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:55 pm Subject: Re: 1976 Show/Venue Question >From the list I have, Virtual Files 76-08 would be the concert at the >Hannover Stadthalle, 20th October 1976, though I hope someone will correct >me if this is wrong. It was the opening date of the 1976 Stratosfear >European tour. No idea about any artwork though, sorry. This is the correct date and venue. I had forgotten that Craig sent me the artwork months ago when we traded. Having said that, I DO have artwork if anybody is looking for it. Please contact me off-list. Thanks also to Chris for the info. Kevin From: 'Admin' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 8:36 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron Thanks Martin. I will look into it to see if I can do this with what I have. dale ----- Original Message ----- From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' To: Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:43 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron At 08:39 18.01.02 , you wrote: >most likely not. I was more looking for wave. I will take a look and see >what I can pipe into. I have not bought a sampler yet. I been using the >computer to get by. Was going to buy the Korg simple one. Maybe I better >review some more before spending. >Thanks > >Administrator for Kay-Net.com >admin@k... >661-723-0266 >Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > Hi, do you use Cubase VST? If yes, try the M-Tron native instrument plugin. It´s got the 'closest to the real thing'- sound I´ve ever heard and is much better than any sample library of the ´Tron that´s on the market. ...plus it´s got all the original tapes and even behaves like the original (sound drops off with a click after 8 sec.) ;-) Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Tom Richmond Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:02 pm Subject: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl - Tree Announcement Hello everyone: This is the first call for participation in the Dreamwatchers' Tales II tree: Is you'd like to participate, please e-mail me the following information: Name City, State, Country Preferred status (Branch or Leaf) Branch - able and willing to make copies for others (please include how many you can do) Leaf - unable to do copying for others Please note that there may be more people requesting branch status than we need (this happened last time around). These people will then be set up as leaves and will be utilized as branches for latecomers to the tree. Once the tree structure is published it is the responsibility of everyone involved to contact each other and arrange a trade agreeable to both parties. This is again a 2CDR set. Both discs are less than 74 minutes, so 80-minute blanks won't be required. If it hasn't been posted yet (I'm in digest mode, so I don't know), Yannick Edom will be posting the details (artists, tracks, etc.). He is to be congratulated for assembling another impressive set. I personally like this set much more than DWT1, and that was a good set as well! I'll post a couple reminders before closing out sign-ups. I'd like to have a tree structure together by February 18th, so I'll take sign-ups until February 15th. If there's anything I forgot to mention, just ask! Cheers! Tom Richmond Menomonee Falls, WI trichmond@b... ___________________________ IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this message in error, please delete the material from your computer and notify the sender by email. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, or distribute this message or its contents to any other person and any such actions may be unlawful Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31623 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of t bigstupidgeek Mon 1/21/2002 3 KB 31635 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of t Gustavo Jobim Wed 1/23/2002 4 KB 31644 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of t Joe Shoults Wed 1/23/2002 4 KB 31650 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of t Matthew Stringer Thu 1/24/2002 5 KB From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Mon Jan 21, 2002 9:53 pm Subject: Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl - Tree Announcement Most excellent news! And here is the rest of the info, including tracklistings and artwork: http://www.tadream.net/musos/watchgirl/ To be clear, this is a separate tree from the current tree project, which, BTW, looks like it will be named 'Marmalade Skies', judging from the current poll results, which I should conclude tomorrow. If you want to cast your last-minute vote for a different (or same) name, go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls Joe P.S. I HIGHLY recommend participating in the DT2 tree; DT1 is awesome! np: Dreamwatcher's Tales 1: FSP- Faraday (Marcel Engels) > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Richmond [mailto:trichmond@b...] > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:02 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com'; 'tangerinedream@yahoogroups.com'; > 'beyond_em@yahoogroups.com'; 'electronicmusic@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the > Watchgirl - Tree Announcement > > > Hello everyone: > > This is the first call for participation in the > Dreamwatchers' Tales II > tree: > > Is you'd like to participate, please e-mail me the following > information: > > Name > City, State, Country > Preferred status (Branch or Leaf) > Branch - able and willing to make copies for others > (please include > how many you can do) > Leaf - unable to do copying for others From: 'Eric Williamson' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 5:07 am Subject: Christopher Franke spotted at NAMM ... and he's playing a _real_modular_synthesiser_, too! http://www.synthtech.com/namm/ ... is the directory. http://www.synthtech.com/namm/c_franke.jpg ... is the photo. to his right is (i believe) ambient muso Robert Rich, a strong proponent of the MOTM modular synthesiser. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com From: 'Yannick EDOM' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 7:23 am Subject: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II - Visions of the Watchgirl Hi everyone The new Dreamwatchers' Tales project is now complete. Tom Richmond is ready to manage the tree (see message posted earlier or contact TRichmond@b...) It's again a double CDR product. The artwork and design is currently for a CD case but in february a DVD case design will be available. All artworks (and ifnos) can be seen on Joe Shoults' www.tadream.net website and the high resolution JPG files are available for download through Fred Yargui's website (http://perso.wanadoo.fr/fred_y). Here are the track listing and credits. DREAMWATCHERS' TALES - FABLE II - Visions of the Watchgirl Disc 1 1- Dreamwatchers 'Fable' (Darklion) copyright Mirage Créations 2- Gille Hemery 'Contact' (G.Hemery) copyright G. Hemery 3- Pergamon Vs Bondee System 'Cloud of the Unknowing' (Pergamon - Bondee System) copyright Bondee System/Pergamon 4- Olivier Briand 'Gladiators' (O. Briand) copyright O. Briand 5- Darklion 'Battlefield' (Darklion) copyright Mirage Créations 6- Nightbirds 'Electric Post-Rock Ensemble' (Modular R.V. - Blue Desk) copyright Nightbirds Music 7- Paul Ellis & Nemesis 'Untitled' (P. Ellis - A. Hassinen - J. Kastman) copyright Ellis/Nemesis 8- James Owens 'Leonids' (J. Owens) copyright J. Owens Disc 2 1- Gustavo Jobim 'Drifting' (G. Jobim) copyright G. Jobim 2- Ionic 'Drafting the Comet V & VI' (J. Salyers - P. Zimmermann - C. Steulet) copyright Ionic 3- Olyam 'Parisian Greetings' (Olyam) copyright Olyam Music Prod. 4- Döktor Strange 'Red Ants Love Migration Freq' (Dr. Strange) copyright Sensorial Recordings 5- Dave Brewer 'Dreamcatcher' (D. Brewer) copyright D. Brewer 6- Darklion & Olyam 'The Spacestation' (Darklion - Olyam) copyright Mirage Création/Olyam Music Prod 7- Mark Jenkins 'The Stealing of the Five Thousands' (M. Jenkins) copyright AMP Records 8- Fred Yargui ' Virage Bleu' (F. Yargui) copyright F. Yargui 9- Darklion & Olyam 'Im Memoriam' (Darklion - Olyam) copyright Mirage Créations/Olyam Music Prod Exclusive DTS track. Dedicated to all victims of the World Trade Center, New York (USA) and the AZF Blast in Toulouse (FRANCE). Project Management : Darklion Management Assistant : Yannick Edom Audio Mastering, Processing, Visual Concept & Design by Darklion All Artworks by Yannick Ediom Inner Sleeve text by Darklion, Océane Brenan and Marine Brenan C 2002 Mirage Créations, P 2002 TML Music ------------------------- Just a quick note : 'Im memoriam' is a DTS track and can only be heard with a proper installation. A player (CD or LD or DVD) with a digital output connected to a home theater amplifer (Dolby AC and DTS) is needed. But a complete real audio version will be soon online in the Olyam website ( www.olyam.com ) Yannick Edom Mirage Créations Champlain B7 A 101 47 Chemin de Pelleport 31500 TOULOUSE FRANCE e-mail : yannick.edom@s... From: 'syensen' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 10:23 am Subject: Re: [tree] Thanks Heiko & concert list WOW! This gets better every day! Thanks once again! I have a tape of this but a CD sounds like heaven ... Cheers, Steve in Nottingham, England (who was there at the concert and totally blown away) --- In tadream@y..., Heiko Heerssen wrote: > Volume 1: Nottingham Albert Hall 08 November 1976 (remastered 1st generation, > incl. adjusted tape speed version (sp?) of the encore, taken from the > 'Collected endings' cd) From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 4:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Haslinger - Crazy/Beautiful Not too odd, since the score for Crazy Beautiful is by Paul Haslinger! I'm guessing the 'soundtrack' is actually a collection of songs briefly displayed in the film. 'I Want to Believe You' was probably written FOR the film, which would likely have Haslinger involved in some way, since it's probably based on an instrumental cue from the film. Crazy/Beautiful was a 2001 film, so maybe we'll see a score released soon... James > -----Original Message----- > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > I just picked up a soundtrack titled 'Crazy/Beautiful' on the > German Edel > label 0130962HWR. > The curiosity here is that track 16 'I Want to Believe You' > is written and > produced by Lori Carson and Paul Haslinger. From: 'Scott' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:14 pm Subject: Tatort info For those seeking info on Tatort, check out www.tatort-archiv.de. It's all in German, though, and there is nothing on the music, at least that I could find. Scott From: 'Scott' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 6:33 pm Subject: TD model car For the TD collector who has everything: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1691298543 Scott From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Tue Jan 22, 2002 8:27 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Thanks Heiko & concert list > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:18:50 +0100 > From: Heiko Heerssen > Subject: Re: [tree] Thanks Heiko & concert list > > > I'm sure everybody wants to thank Heiko for his hard work but hasn't > > said so yet! I second that - so let me join that list of people who want to say - Heiko, THANK YOU! > > THANK YOU HEIKO! I can't wait to hear the music! > > aaahh...what a nice email on a dull Monday morning :-) > To be honest, I never thought that my idea would raise so much > excitement/confusion/discussion (please choose what you think fits best for > you ;-) Now I can only hope that I will meet the expectations of those who > are in the 'tree'. I don't think you have any worries there... > > I now have a list of concerts for the first batch which is pretty much set in > stone, but it's not already confirmed. What's sure is that the first batch > will consist of 10 cdr's. > > Volume 1: Nottingham Albert Hall 08 November 1976 (remastered 1st generation, > incl. adjusted tape speed version (sp?) of the encore, taken from the > 'Collected endings' cd) > Volume 2: Sheffield City Hall 29 October 1974 (remastered low generation) > Volume 3: Bernau St.-Marien-Kirche 07 October 2001 (MD master recording) (psss, Heiko... I presume that's the version I have?) > Volume 4: Warsaw Most Swietokrzyski 31 Aug 2001, main set on 2 CDRs (DAT > master) > Volume 5: Warsaw Most Swietokrzyski 31 Aug 2001, encores + excerpts of press > conference + 'brigde medley' Actually, this Warsaw set could be packaged as a three disc set in a double jewel case. And for those designing the cover... how about adding my detailed review of the concert as additional sleeve notes so one could have a little booklet inside the case? I only need to change one or two things to the review, just primarily to add information (and maybe be a bit kinder to Jerome's physical appearence!). It'll probably end up as a booklet of about twelve pages. It's an idea, so if any of the sleeve designers are interested, let me know off-list. Actually, taking this even further... how about all those who were THERE at the various concerts. Perhaps they would like to write sleeve notes? > Volume 6: Bilbao Pabellón de la Casilla 31 January 1976, on 2 CDRs > (remastered 1st gen.) > Volume 7: Croydon Fairfield Hall 23 October 1975 (remastered 1st gen.) > Volume 8: Berlin Philharmonie 27 June 1976 (remastered FM broadcast, low > gen.) > > for the branches & leaves this means that everyone who wants to copy in > redbook format (recordable CD) will need the following: > -two 80 minute CDRs (Bernau 2001 & Nottingham 76 will have a length of ca. 78 > minutes) > -eight 74 minute CDRs > -two double jewel cases > -eight single jewel cases > > > Also I'd like to thank everyone else who is contributing to the > > distribution, cover designs and generally giving their time and > > enthusiasm for this very worthwhile project ... > > how true! without their help the tree would not have been possible. > > Regards > Heiko I look forward to the collection... and if all goes well, the rest to follow! Regards Roger Hartopp -- Placisz raz - uzywasz caly czas! http://www.onetmail.onet.pl/oferta From: 'John Marchington' Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:23 am Subject: KS 'Cyborg' Does anyone on the list have the original Klaus Schulze 'Cyborg' 2-CD set and a good quality scanner? I recently purchased the reissue of it that came in one of those horrible cardboard foldover packages -- and one of the disc retaining claws has already broken off the tray that houses disc two. My experience has been that, once that happens, it's only a matter of time before the whole thing disintegrates. Replacing the tray is probably going to wreck it. Besides I'm always worried that I'm going to scratch CDs when I attempt to remove them, because the trays seem to have a much lower profile than those in the jewel cases. What I'd like to do it transfer the discs over to a standard 2-CD jewel case, but I'd really like files of the scanned artwork so I can do a nice job -- front page, any notes inside and the rear panel/spine info included as well. I'll print them myself. Thanks in advance. From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 6:55 am Subject: NEW ASHRA CD`s arrived Hi all, today (22-Jan-2002) I received the both new Ashra Releases and a little surprise. do you want more, please jump to: www.tribute-to-ashra.de , thankx for your visit. Also on my page , a direct link for your order . And dont forget to sign in my GUESTBOOK: regards heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de www.opticaldream.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Admin' Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 7:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron Martin Been hunting down the M-Tron Plugin. Do you know the web site link or where I can find more information on it? I have had not much success in finding it. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Admin' To: Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron > Thanks Martin. > I will look into it to see if I can do this with what I have. > > dale > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' > To: > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:43 AM > Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron > > > At 08:39 18.01.02 , you wrote: > >most likely not. I was more looking for wave. I will take a look and see > >what I can pipe into. I have not bought a sampler yet. I been using the > >computer to get by. Was going to buy the Korg simple one. Maybe I better > >review some more before spending. > >Thanks > > > >Administrator for Kay-Net.com > >admin@k... > >661-723-0266 > >Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > Hi, > > do you use Cubase VST? If yes, try the M-Tron native instrument plugin. > It´s got the 'closest to the real thing'- sound I´ve ever heard and is much > better than any sample library of the ´Tron that´s on the market. ...plus > it´s got all the original tapes and even behaves like the original (sound > drops off with a click after 8 sec.) ;-) > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31634 Re: mellotron Gustavo Jobim Wed 1/23/2002 3 KB 31636 Re: mellotron TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Wed 1/23/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 4:54 pm Subject: Re: mellotron I do use Cubasis VST, which came as a fantastic and precioussss bonus with my SBlive plat.5.1, so I got Very Interested in this too. I'd also like to know where I can find this plugin. > Martin > Been hunting down the M-Tron Plugin. Do you know the web site link or where > I can find more information on it? I have had not much success in finding > it. > > Dale > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> Hi, >> >> do you use Cubase VST? If yes, try the M-Tron native instrument plugin. >> It´s got the 'closest to the real thing'- sound I´ve ever heard and is > much >> better than any sample library of the ´Tron that´s on the market. ...plus >> it´s got all the original tapes and even behaves like the original (sound >> drops off with a click after 8 sec.) ;-) >> Best regards, >>Martin Kasprzak From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:35 pm Subject: Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl - Tree Announcement Most excellent news! I've been looking forward to this for a long time, since I recorded my contribution for DWT2, which is probably one of the best pieces I've ever made! And I'm glad it's included on the set. I could be a branch, but I can only make 1 copy. My address is: Gustavo Jobim R. Fabio da Luz, 393 / BL.1 / 101 Meier - Rio de Janeiro - RJ 20720-350 Brazil > Hello everyone: > > This is the first call for participation in the Dreamwatchers' Tales II > tree: > > Is you'd like to participate, please e-mail me the following information: > > Name > City, State, Country > Preferred status (Branch or Leaf) > Branch - able and willing to make copies for others (please include > how many you can do) > Leaf - unable to do copying for others > > Please note that there may be more people requesting branch status than we > need (this happened last time around). These people will then be set up as > leaves and will be utilized as branches for latecomers to the tree. > > Once the tree structure is published it is the responsibility of everyone > involved to contact each other and arrange a trade agreeable to both > parties. This is again a 2CDR set. Both discs are less than 74 minutes, so > 80-minute blanks won't be required. > > If it hasn't been posted yet (I'm in digest mode, so I don't know), Yannick > Edom will be posting the details (artists, tracks, etc.). He is to be > congratulated for assembling another impressive set. I personally like this > set much more than DWT1, and that was a good set as well! > > I'll post a couple reminders before closing out sign-ups. I'd like to have > a tree structure together by February 18th, so I'll take sign-ups until > February 15th. > > If there's anything I forgot to mention, just ask! > > Cheers! > > Tom Richmond > Menomonee Falls, WI > trichmond@b... From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 10:38 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron At 23:28 22.01.02 , you wrote: >Martin >Been hunting down the M-Tron Plugin. Do you know the web site link or where >I can find more information on it? I have had not much success in finding >it. > >Dale > Hi Dale, try the following link... http://www.gmedia.com/gforce/m-tron/index.html to Gustavo´s request - I don´t use Cubasis (I use the full Cubase VST 32 5.11 setup) but I think that it may not support plugin instruments. If it does... then M-Tron´s for you. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! From: olle.rundgren@s... Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:52 pm Subject: tour personnel Including Royal Albert Hall? Didn't know that. What about the other European shows after that one? There were more tour dates if I'm not mistaken. I remember having a low quality concert-tape, said to be from Germany, April '75. Was Baumann back by then or when did he return to the group? /Olle NP: TD - Bilbao 76 >From: 'Owens, James' >One correction: Australia 1975 (including Royal Albert Hall, UK) lineup: >Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Michael Hoenig. (Peter took off to Tibet...) > -----Original Message----- > Tour personnel from 1974-1977 was Edgar Froese, Peter > Baumann, Chris Franke. > > Tour personnel for 1978 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Steve > Joliffe, > Klaus Krieger (I think). > > Tour personnel for 1980-1984 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Johannes > Schmoelling. > > Tour personnel for 1986-1987(?) was Edgar Froese, Chris > Franke, Paul Haslinger From: 'olovur2' Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:56 pm Subject: Re: KS interview 1 Thanks David for the KS interview. Only got around to read it now and it was interesting. I'm a bit surprised by the downplaying of Body Love though. It is one of those, rather few, Schulze albums that is enjoyable all the way, whereas standard practice seems to be; one good track and one not so good track. If he did Body Love without the 'engagement' he had in the other 70's albums I would love to see him less engaged, generally speaking. What was/is this Face Out anyway? /Olle --- In tadream@y..., 'David Foster' wrote: > OK This comes from a letter interview in Face Out 4, an electronic >fanzine from about March 1979. All credit to those that made it. >The contents are relevant to the posts that are appearing now. If >you don't want to read it just delete. From: 'kcasarsa' Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 5:23 am Subject: Cancelled tour (Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but I'm new to the group ...) In December, the Buffalo, N.Y., venue where I was supposed to see Tangerine Dream posted a message on their website stating that the cancellation notice they received from the band said that TD's management went bankrupt and that's why the tour was called off. Anybody else hear/read the s Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31641 Re: Cancelled tour Mark Filipak Wed 1/23/2002 2 KB From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:18 pm Subject: items for sale Hi, I have following items for sale, all prices are in US $ and without shipping costs: all items in mint condition - Kraftwerk - Electric Cafe (english version) / Tape / EMI 264 2406444 / US $ 3 - Software - Electronic Universe / Tape / KS 80.055/56 / US $ 2 - V./A. - Erdenklang Music Vol. III / CD / Erdenklang 28572 / US §$ 3 - Elektric Music - Esperanto / CD / with Promo sheet / SPV 084-92832 / US $ 10 - Tangerine Dream - Poland-The Warsaw Concert / CD / Castle Com. ESM CD 365 / UK 1996 / US $ 7 - V./A. - Four the truth / CD / Groove GR 012 / with Ron Boots/Ian Boddy/M. Schoenwaelder ... / US $ 6 - V./A. - GoldTri Vol. 1 / 2CD / Stonk Cd01/02 / withAsana, FSP, AirSculpture, Under the Dome, RAMP, Keller-Schoenwaelder ... / US $ 12 - You - Electric day / CD / CUE-4001 / US $ 7 If you are interested in, please contact me off-list. Regards heiko www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de Bestellen Sie hier Ihre kostenlose head & shoulders Produktprobe - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/ppc?109446C254962016 D2 Vodafone CallYa - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?86795C1493809712 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 36084 items for sale heiko@o... heineu Tue 9/10/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:36 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Cancelled tour Welcome! You can go to http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/firstright.html to read what TDI has to say. -- Mark kcasarsa wrote: > > (Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but I'm new to the group ...) > > In December, the Buffalo, N.Y., venue where I was supposed to see > Tangerine Dream posted a message on their website stating that the > cancellation notice they received from the band said that TD's > management went bankrupt and that's why the tour was called off. > Anybody else hear/read the s From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 7:38 pm Subject: sheet music I finally ran across what Dale had been asking for, the sheet music pdfs! it was a dead link on the tadream.net main page. anyway in case you had looked for them, they are there now. http://www.tadream.net/pdf Alchemy of the Heart (piano coda).pdf 185 KB Big Sur Romance.pdf 365 KB Cinammon Road.pdf 662 KB In Julia's Eyes.pdf 216 KB Logos Part One (final section).pdf 1.1 MB Love on a Real Train.pdf 554 KB Song of the Whale Part Two (piano intro).pdf 418 KB Streethawk.pdf 522 KB The Big Sleep in Search of Hades.pdf 656 KB Vermillion Sands.pdf 496 KB Warsaw in the Sun.pdf 546 KB White Clouds.pdf 397 KB Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31669 sheet music Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/25/2002 2 KB 31681 Re: sheet music Joe Shoults Sat 1/26/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 7:47 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] tour personnel My understanding is that the April 2, 1975 Royal Albert Hall show was sort of a finale to the Australia tour. Baumann had returned by the time they played Orange, France (August), and was present for the October UK tour. James > -----Original Message----- > From: olle.rundgren@s... [mailto:olle.rundgren@s...] > > Including Royal Albert Hall? Didn't know that. What about the other > European shows after that one? There were more tour dates if I'm not > mistaken. I remember having a low quality concert-tape, said > to be from > Germany, April '75. Was Baumann back by then or when did he > return to the > group? > >From: 'Owens, James' > > >One correction: Australia 1975 (including Royal Albert Hall, > UK) lineup: > >Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Michael Hoenig. (Peter took off > to Tibet...) > From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:40 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl - Tree Announcement be sure to direct all your Dreamwatchers' Tales tree signups to Tom Richmond mailto:trichmond@b... he may or may not properly receive them here. I'm listening to a neat flange effect on Gustavo's track from DT2, 'Drifting'. Looking forward to hearing the rest! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustavo Jobim [mailto:gustavojobim@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 5:36 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the > Watchgirl - Tree Announcement > > > Most excellent news! I've been looking forward to this for a > long time, > since I recorded my contribution for DWT2, which is probably > one of the best > pieces I've ever made! And I'm glad it's included on the set. > > I could be a branch, but I can only make 1 copy. My address is: > Gustavo Jobim > R. Fabio da Luz, 393 / BL.1 / 101 > Meier - Rio de Janeiro - RJ > 20720-350 > Brazil > > > Hello everyone: > > > > This is the first call for participation in the > Dreamwatchers' Tales II > > tree: > > > > Is you'd like to participate, please e-mail me the > following information: > > > > Name > > City, State, Country > > Preferred status (Branch or Leaf) > > Branch - able and willing to make copies for others > (please include > > how many you can do) > > Leaf - unable to do copying for others > > > > Please note that there may be more people requesting branch > status than we > > need (this happened last time around). These people will > then be set up as > > leaves and will be utilized as branches for latecomers to the tree. > > > > Once the tree structure is published it is the > responsibility of everyone > > involved to contact each other and arrange a trade agreeable to both > > parties. This is again a 2CDR set. Both discs are less > than 74 minutes, so > > 80-minute blanks won't be required. > > > > If it hasn't been posted yet (I'm in digest mode, so I > don't know), Yannick > > Edom will be posting the details (artists, tracks, etc.). > He is to be > > congratulated for assembling another impressive set. I > personally like this > > set much more than DWT1, and that was a good set as well! > > > > I'll post a couple reminders before closing out sign-ups. > I'd like to have > > a tree structure together by February 18th, so I'll take > sign-ups until > > February 15th. > > > > If there's anything I forgot to mention, just ask! > > > > Cheers! > > > > Tom Richmond > > Menomonee Falls, WI > > trichmond@b... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31650 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of t Matthew Stringer Thu 1/24/2002 5 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 23, 2002 8:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron This is great Martin! Following the link out, I found a distributor near by plus additional tapes for the plugin. I will have a wait a few days till I get my hands on it but I do believe it is going to work out better than the other idea I was about to try. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 2:38 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron At 23:28 22.01.02 , you wrote: >Martin >Been hunting down the M-Tron Plugin. Do you know the web site link or where >I can find more information on it? I have had not much success in finding >it. > >Dale > Hi Dale, try the following link... http://www.gmedia.com/gforce/m-tron/index.html to Gustavo´s request - I don´t use Cubasis (I use the full Cubase VST 32 5.11 setup) but I think that it may not support plugin instruments. If it does... then M-Tron´s for you. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:15 am Subject: 'Cyborg' artwork I haven't received any replies to my original request for artwork for KS's 'Cyborg' but I've been online and found a number of sites that specialise in CD covers -- and the quality of the artwork appears to be excellent. I've thus managed to download both front and rear artwork (the CD labels were there as well but I wasn't interested in them) so I won't need anyone to scan theirs for me. I was interested to note that the artwork is clearly associated with the narrow 2-CD jewel case, since the spine information is exactly the same on both sides of the graphics/track data that appears through the rear of the case. Other than that, the artwork is identical to that on my cardboard packaged set and the catalogue number on the spines is obviously the same as well. I've included the 'master' URL listing a number of sites where one can download cover graphics for those interested. http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/Collecting/Compact_Disc/Cover_Ima ges/ From: Liondream@a... Date: Thu Jan 24, 2002 4:27 pm Subject: M-Tron and Nord (OT) Hi everyone, I've been away for a while and have missed reading these posts... FWIW, I highly second Martin's plug for the M-Tron plug. (www.g-media.com/distributed by QUpArts in the U.S. I believe). I like this plug a lot and I also like the Nu-Tron soundbank addition and recommend it. A 'secret' to making it sound 'real' besides playing style is to treat it the way you would the real thing in terms of processing. A note to those of us who are on tighter budgets (though this will be slightly too late for some)... seems like a lot of smaller developers offer really good discounts on stuff for Christmas. The M-Tron was on special too. I think it would have cost you as much to get both the M-Tron and the extra soundbanks as it does normally just to get the M-Tron (if I remember correctly). Nord... A while ago I read a post here from John regarding the Nord modular and picked up a Micro. Wow!!! I mean, wow!!! Thanks, John! I'm saving up for a full modular or perhaps a Lead3 (though I'd be happy with a 2). To bring this all back on topic (maybe in a way)... the Nords are distinctive for their bright fire engine red finish. I noticed one in one of the TD sleeve shots, I think it was Valentine Wheels. Sad news about the cancellation of the TD tour, I was really looking forward to it. Maybe there are some other options out there for someone interested in hearing electronic music being played live? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31648 M-Tron and Nord (OT) Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/24/2002 2 KB 31654 Re: M-Tron and Nord (OT) TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 24, 2002 5:43 pm Subject: M-Tron and Nord (OT) Martin and others What soundcard are you using with the M-Tron? I am almost sure that the sound will be very much depending on the quality of the soundcard. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31654 Re: M-Tron and Nord (OT) TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB From: tangram12@a... Date: Thu Jan 24, 2002 8:32 pm Subject: rare cds hi everyone i have put a couple of my duplicate cds on ebay. they are jim & Pablo and Ca va-ca Marche-Ca Ira Encore these can be found at http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=duncan41& include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Matthew Stringer' Date: Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:04 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl - Tree Announcement Seems to be a few non-list admissions to DWT2, also how can you have commercial copywrited tracks on some thing that's supposed to be copied? Matt -----Original Message----- From: Joe Shoults [mailto:jshoults@f...] Sent: 23 January 2002 20:41 To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl - Tree Announcement be sure to direct all your Dreamwatchers' Tales tree signups to Tom Richmond mailto:trichmond@b... he may or may not properly receive them here. I'm listening to a neat flange effect on Gustavo's track from DT2, 'Drifting'. Looking forward to hearing the rest! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustavo Jobim [mailto:gustavojobim@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 5:36 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the > Watchgirl - Tree Announcement > > > Most excellent news! I've been looking forward to this for a > long time, > since I recorded my contribution for DWT2, which is probably > one of the best > pieces I've ever made! And I'm glad it's included on the set. > > I could be a branch, but I can only make 1 copy. My address is: > Gustavo Jobim > R. Fabio da Luz, 393 / BL.1 / 101 > Meier - Rio de Janeiro - RJ > 20720-350 > Brazil > > > Hello everyone: > > > > This is the first call for participation in the > Dreamwatchers' Tales II > > tree: > > > > Is you'd like to participate, please e-mail me the > following information: > > > > Name > > City, State, Country > > Preferred status (Branch or Leaf) > > Branch - able and willing to make copies for others > (please include > > how many you can do) > > Leaf - unable to do copying for others > > > > Please note that there may be more people requesting branch > status than we > > need (this happened last time around). These people will > then be set up as > > leaves and will be utilized as branches for latecomers to the tree. > > > > Once the tree structure is published it is the > responsibility of everyone > > involved to contact each other and arrange a trade agreeable to both > > parties. This is again a 2CDR set. Both discs are less > than 74 minutes, so > > 80-minute blanks won't be required. > > > > If it hasn't been posted yet (I'm in digest mode, so I > don't know), Yannick > > Edom will be posting the details (artists, tracks, etc.). > He is to be > > congratulated for assembling another impressive set. I > personally like this > > set much more than DWT1, and that was a good set as well! > > > > I'll post a couple reminders before closing out sign-ups. > I'd like to have > > a tree structure together by February 18th, so I'll take > sign-ups until > > February 15th. > > > > If there's anything I forgot to mention, just ask! > > > > Cheers! > > > > Tom Richmond > > Menomonee Falls, WI > > trichmond@b... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Jan 24, 2002 10:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question Because the copyright is owned by the composer in each case, and they have consented to the free copying of this track for the purpose of the Dreamwatcher's Tales - Fable II tree. It's good advertising for those who are actually attempting to make money with their music, and for the rest of us, it's a neat way to let others hear what we 'sound like'. For me, the only purpose in copyrighting is so that another artist doesn't revamp my idea with better instruments and make a hit single out of it! (Yeah, RIGHT!) James > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Stringer [mailto:qube@f...] > Seems to be a few non-list admissions to DWT2, also how can you have > commercial copywrited tracks on some thing that's supposed to > be copied? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31662 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question Joe Shoults Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB 31675 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question John Marchington Sat 1/26/2002 5 KB 31679 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question Joe Shoults Sat 1/26/2002 3 KB 31684 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question Owens, James Sat 1/26/2002 3 KB From: Victor Rek Date: Thu Jan 24, 2002 10:54 pm Subject: New York Times Article, 1977 I was in a used record shop last night and while I was handling a promo Rubycon LP, an old newspaper clip fell out from the sleeve. The clipping was from the New York Times, by John Rockwell dated February 13, 1977. The title of the article is 'Space Rock - Into the Weird Blue Yonder'. Here is an excerpt pertaining to Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze: '[...]Much of the interesting German space rock comes out on the English Virgin label or the German Brain label. Tangerine Dream's new 'Stratosfear' - due out on American Virgin in a couple of weeks and available now as an import - and Froese's 'Macula Transfer' both reveal the strengths and limitations of much of this music. The strengths are a vital impetus and a fresh, exotic use of synthesizer coloration. The weaknesses are a certain arbitrary, popsy willingness to wallow in effects for their own sake. Froese and his band remain purists in that they don't stoop to conventional pop-music devices and instrumentation. But with their film scores (some of their music was used for 'The Exorcist' and they have provided the soundtrack for William Friedkin's forthcoming shocker 'The Sorcerer') they slip a little too facilely into sound over substance. More interesting examples of the German school are the many solo disks of a keyboard sensualist name Klaus Schulze and Harmonia's two records, on Brain. Schulze can be extraordinary, although he sometimes slips into a mad-fiend-at-the-organ-in-the-depths-of-his-castle kind of noodling. [...]' [picture of Franke, Baumann, Froese at the bottom of the article - the same show used on the first Disky compilation Dutch CD and many other places] The owner of 'The Music Exchange' in Kansas City was kind enough to give me this article for free while I was purchasing the 8-track of 'Go - Live in Paris' with Klaus Schulze on it :-) Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31657 Re: New York Times Article, 1977 John McIntyre Fri 1/25/2002 2 KB 31665 Re: New York Times Article, 1977 Owens, James Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB 31670 Re: New York Times Article, 1977 Michael A Jean Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB 31671 Re: New York Times Article, 1977 Mark Filipak Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB 31688 Re: New York Times Article, 1977 Vincent Goudreault Sat 1/26/2002 3 KB From: tangram12@a... Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 4:25 am Subject: greece 83, correct date hi everyone below is an email i recieved fro a guy in greece tonight:- Hi,I'm e-mailing from Greece, I just wanted to give the correct dates of the two TD 1983 concerts in Athens: they were :30 and31August of 1983-I was then 10 years old but I do remember seeing them in TV few days after the concerts! Thank you very much, Nikos-Greece. Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31676 Re: greece 83, correct date Chris Owen Sat 1/26/2002 3 KB 31677 Re: greece 83, correct date Paul Fellows Sat 1/26/2002 2 KB From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 9:31 am Subject: Re: [tadream] M-Tron and Nord (OT) At 09:43 24.01.02 , you wrote: >Martin and others >What soundcard are you using with the M-Tron? I am almost sure that the >sound will be very much depending on the quality of the soundcard. > >Administrator for Kay-Net.com >admin@k... >661-723-0266 >Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > Hi, I´m using the Guillemot Maxi Studio ISIS, which is an OK-sounding low-bidget multi in-out card. I wouldn´t recommend it, though, because of the high latency of the chipset - you always have a delay if you try to play plugin instruments directly. I therefore mostly play the lines with a sound from my outboard equipment and then route the M-Tron to the MIDI-track. The sound with my ISIS is pretty authentic, though, and fits well with the very orgnaic sound of my goth rock band outifit. ;-) There are two factors you have to consider: - good digital-analog-converters - low latency If you can spare a few pennies more, I´d recommend getting the new MOTU firewire interface (USD 1300) and the Steinberg USB-to-MIDI(USD 200). If you need a low-budget solution, I´d recommend the Hoontech DSP2000 (USD 500) - it´s got 8 ins and outs and MIDI interface and only 3ms latency. Hope this helps... Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:03 am Subject: [tree] current poll I just noticed that the name 'Marmalade skies' (10 votes) is the current leader of the poll, closely followed by '(The) Tangerine Tree' (8 votes)..maybe we should use the combined version 'Tangerine trees and marmalade skies' (only 2 votes) so that everybody ends up happy :-) So far we have 121 tree participants, but only 36 votes for a name. Come on people, we need a decision :-) (to vote please go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/surveys?id=851324) Heiko P.S.: the target date for sending out my copies to the branches is Monday, February 4th. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31674 Re: [tree] current poll fredericreynolds Sat 1/26/2002 2 KB From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 12:41 pm Subject: Dreamwatchers' Tales With the imminent release through the tree of 'Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl' I thought it was about time I turned my attention to the original Dreamwatchers' Tales, and my thoughts about the original set. First of all, I eventually acquired my copy last September, and I kind of had that attitude 'There, I'm cool now, I've got this', and proceeded to play it once (my copies had all the tracks together, and were not indexed as separate tracks, so Disc 1 contains a track of 77.03, and disc 2 76.56!), and then just left it with the rest of the CD's for a short while. One day, when I had nothing better to do, I thought I'd put it on again. This time, I started to listen to it. And before long, both discs were getting quite regular plays on my player. In fact, even my wife likes some of the tracks! Now I've got myself well familiarised with the discs, I think I can write a reasonably objective review. (But bear in mind that I'm not an expert on synthesisers so I don't have too much of a clue as to what instrument is playing, so if I think something is a mellotron when in reality it's a ARP II Polymorph multi-trigger Oberheim modular moog sequencer sampler, then I apologise here and now...) First, a word on the sleeve (which I believe I already mentioned in an earlier posting). All in all, considering it's a CDR and 'tree' packaging, I kind of like the front sleeve design but can't help thinking that the cover to the original CDR release could have been better. Oh, one can't help but being fickle! Secondly, it might have been best to run the notes as regards the musicians past a native speaker as some of the common errors made by those who use English as a second language reveal themselves. If you want, Yannick, you can run them past myself (or maybe Paul Fellows [Don't mind me mentioning your name, do you Paul?]) for proofing. Let's kick off Disc 1, and 'Dreamwatchers Tales', an atmospheric track sampling all the other pieces, along with effects from 'White Out' and 'Le Parc'. Although it's a nice idea, it's kind of disjointed and so doesn't really work. The time used for this track could have been better spent extending those tracks in the collection that had to be cut short... Nightbirds' 'Morning Weather' finally gets the collection going, and the opening atmospheric sequence to the track and the end of the previous 'Dreamwatchers' merge together quite well. After a while, the synths finally start up and we get quite a nice piece. We move onto 'Moon Trigger' by Nemesis, and this piece kind of reminds me of The Orb - series of rhythms but with no discernable melody to speak of to begin with. Then quite a nice line that is repeated from about the middle kicks in, and string synths embellish it further before the rhythms dominate again. Okay for Orb fans... A change of pace and some lovely guitar over the top of some nicely layered synths starts and dominates Olivier Briand's 'Transparences'. Nice and relaxing, and just the right length... no, wait, when the track appears to have come to an end, Olivier picks up the synth pace with Jean Jerez's guitar doing likewise, and the piece sounds like a slightly mellowed out TD sequencer rhythm with Edgar's guitar finally having the volume turned down. Excellent stuff. The next two tracks, I'm afraid, do very little for me. Doktor Strange's 'To Be or Not to Be' just reminds of the discos I have to avoid. Techno is just not me... ...neither is Darklion's 'Desert Live - Dreamlist part', a piece which perhaps is as far away as possible to my idea of electronic music: switch on a few buttons, get the drum machine going, and hey presto - instant track (but it's still better than an awful lot of techno rubbish). However, it is vastly redeemed at the end by some brilliant sampling of Edgar Froese's mellotron opening on 'Maroubra Bay' and other mellotron effects which nicely wash into... 'An Intense and Intimate journey Into Your Mind' by Jeff Bergman. One of my favourites. Although the sequencer progression in consistent throughout (only broken midway by a lone sequencer changing its pitch from down to back up again), the piece is always busy, it has a memorable melody, and the end it leaves one asking for more. Unfortunately, it was cut into its tenth minute... However, after the disappointment of Jeff cut in his prime, we launch into perhaps the gem of the entire set. If I was to choose someone to come up with 'Rubycon 2', then Marcel Engels is the man. I just love those synth flutes, and 'Faraday' is just beautiful. Someone give this man a contract. Marcel - or Free System Project - do you have any official releases? After the previous piece of synth heaven, John Gentile was going to have to work hard to follow that. This piece initially reminded me of Stephen Russell, and although it's pleasant enough, 'Liquid Quartz' doesn't really go anywhere... For what is meant to be an album of electronic music, Dave Brewer's 'December Afternoon' comes as quite a pleasant surprise. After all, didn't 'Ricochet part 2' and 'To Dusk' begin with beautiful piano pieces? There are electronic keyboards that do kick in, but they help to simply enhance what is a lovely, well written piece. I like it. Moving onto Rod Jones or Ephemeris, and 'Astronautilus'. As the sleeve notes say, it's a structured happy composition, including a melody line reminiscent of 'Logos' (or Betty Davis Eyes!?). Certainly sounds eighty-ish, but is no worse for that. I though I was listening to the opening bars of the Wedding March when Gustavo Jobim's 'Mose (Should it be Morse?) Codes - excerpt' kicks in. I think I would have preferred some of his other work rather than an experimental extract played on an electric organ. Sorry Gustavo, forgive me... And so onto Disc 2, and without undue delay, we have Dream Conspiracy's 'Dysfunction', which is nothing sort of brilliant. Certainly reminds me of eighties TD, brilliant melody, loud. Again, maybe frustrating to know that there was more... damn, anybody got a spare copy of the preview CDR? Ionic's 'From Gulf to Gulf' sounds like a kind of filler between tracks 1 & 3; on it's own, perhaps it's nothing too remarkable, although I have to say I do like the slow sequences and chords. It just follows so nicely after track 1 and into track 3... Olyam's 'Moon Ritual' maintains the high quality that starts this disc, with a beautiful little hap-guitar melody line on top of a sequence that continues to build and build. Lovely stuff. After my previous comments as regards Doktor Strange and Darklion's solo pieces on the collection, I kind of expected to be relatively indifferent to 'So Good'. Actually, I quite like this! I suppose it goes on a little too long, and the voice samples are a little irritating, but I love the end with the floating sequences and the bird sound effects which seems to wrap up the track just nicely. Somehow 'So Good' seems to fit with what's already gone so far. .. Two are One, or Tim Scanlon, presents us 'Love of Live' which is a track that seems to be at complete odds with itself. A nice opening guitar sequence is then layered by a clarinet which sounds as though it should be accompanying something else. I have difficulty trying to remember the melody which seems to have been put together in the same way as the guitar and clarinet. It's track that's desperately trying to tell me it's a good, well structured composition but I'm struggling to believe it... Paul Ellis, or Dweller at the Threshold, gives us 'World Without End', a pleasant sequencer piece which kinds of reminds me of early 80's TD during their 'Convention of the 24' period. Maybe goes on a little long, but that's really the only criticism... a little petty, really. Experimental effects begin Fred Yargui's 'Sirius Suite' , again sounding like the opening to an Orb piece. It's nice and slow. Nothing outstanding, but nothing there that wants you to dismiss it either. Actually, if he didn't have the drums, I think it would have been even better and given me the feeling of being in space and maybe on a journey towards Sirius. Okay, it's nice! Brian Frick's 'Sequential 97' is exactly what it is - a melody built onto a repeating sequencer rhythm, but it does seem to hit the nail on the head. The melody and chords do change and what we have is a very nice piece of music. Satsuma Nightmare (ho ho), as the name suggests, come up a piece that certainly reveals their influences from the said band. 'Grating Lobes'. This is a track that perhaps should have been more than it is as it doesn't really change too much all the way through. (apart from the start, of course!) Darklion - lucky chap - makes his third appearance on the collection, this time collaborating with Olyam - and comes up with 'Bubble Bells'. Without knowing the details behind the composition of this track, one has to assume Darklion has played a major influence here (he know even has a trademark electronic drum roll!). But, having said that, it still fits well within the context of the entire second disc. But it's not 'Moon Ritual', sadly... And finally, and an excellent way to finish the set, we have Richard Ford's 'Another Day'. A slow chord sequence begins what turns out to be a wonderfully, bouncy, melodic poppy piece with tubular bell effects embellishing the main melody line further. A great way to end 154 minutes of music! Overall, considering that many of these artists have very kindly donated tracks or have put in some hard hours to come up with something special exclusively for this set, Dreamwatchers' Tales is a pretty good collection. Okay, perhaps like any other compilation it has its hits and misses, but thankfully even the misses have some enduring quality about them. DT is perhaps exceptional when you consider that only those in the know - particularly with this mailing list - possess copies of it. The tree system will ensure that it could well remain a well-treasured secret amongst EM fans. And with 'Dreamwatchers' Tales - Fable II: Visions of the Watchgirl' promising even better, I'm going to ensure I sign up as a leaf this time. Well done to everyone who contributed or helped set up the entire project in the first place. We are all eternally grateful! Roger Hartopp -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31667 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB 31678 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales RJF Sat 1/26/2002 2 KB From: John McIntyre Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 1:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New York Times Article, 1977 > More interesting examples of the German school are the many solo disks of a > keyboard sensualist name Klaus Schulze and Harmonia's two records, on > Brain. Schulze can be extraordinary, although he sometimes slips into a > mad-fiend-at-the-organ-in-the-depths-of-his-castle kind of noodling. [...]' Ah, yes, the Doctor Phibes effect. (-8 John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... From: Tom Richmond Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 1:25 pm Subject: suggestions... Hey gang! I'm in the process of doing a set of TD CDRs for a friend, and would like suggestions for the last two discs. One will be material from 'Optical Race' to present. The other to be live and/or rare 'not to be missed' items. (I have EO, SoD and RDE and some other unofficial live material) I'm having trouble getting this narrowed down... Please reply off-list, as I'm on digest and would like to hear back today if possible. Thanks! Tom ___________________________ IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this message in error, please delete the material from your computer and notify the sender by email. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, or distribute this message or its contents to any other person and any such actions may be unlawful From: 'Alvaro Valdes' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 12:17 pm Subject: federico - spain earlier this week i lost all my files in the computer everyone who has traded with me , would you mind much sending email and website addies and list if you have any much appreciated federico [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 2:00 pm Subject: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks I was contacted by knowledgeble readers and did some more research. Redbook vs data =============== I really did think the CD-ROMs were more like hard disks, but it turns out that I was wrong when I wrote that CD-ROMs used for data, record in concentric rings. Like redbook audio (CD-DA), CD-ROMs also record in a spiral track, but do have more robust sector marking and much stronger error correction. Everything else was essentially correct, though as one responder pointed out, I could have gone into more detail regarding sector marking. Well, enough is enough, and most folks are interested in the bottom line, which remains: Redbook audio (CD-DA) is more fragile than CD-ROM. To Joe Shoults I wrote: 'Ripping redbook accurately is like trying to drop a stylus onto a record at exactly the same point in exactly the same groove 10 times in a row.' I think that about sums it up. Avoiding clicks =============== There is an issue when indexing back-to-back music tracks that are to sound continuous on playback. Most concert material is continuous. A silence pad at the end of a track will produce an audible click at the index point in back-to-back tracks. Clicks can be avoided by following this gospel: Make the length of all WAV files a whole multiple of 588 samples prior to mastering. When cutting a long WAV file (from a sampler or a ripper) into indexed sections, make each section a whole multiple of 588 samples. This provides a resolution of 1/75th of second for the placement of the index point. Where did 588 samples come from? -------------------------------- (44100 samples/second) / (75 blocks/second) = 588 samples/block Why is this an issue? --------------------- Mastering software will pad out a partially filled block by adding silence (zero level samples) so that the block contains exactly 588 samples. If the block that immediately follows it is a continuation of the music, then there will be an audible click at the index point. To avoid the click, avoid the silence padding. To avoid the silence padding, make the length of the WAV file a whole multiple of 588 samples. If your WAV editor doesn't provide assists, get out your calculator and figure out where you want to do your cutting before you break the original sample apart. There is an easy way to get it right ------------------------------------ 1 - Audibly, find a point where you want to put an index point. 2 - If your editor reads out in samples: 2a - If the beginning sample is numbered '0' 2a1 - Add '1' to the end sample number 2a2 - Divide by 588 2a3 - Throw away the fractional part 2a4 - Multiply the whole part by 588 2a5 - Subtract '1' 2a6 - This is your proper end sample number 2a7 - Move the end cursor to that sample number and cut. 2b - If the beginning sample is numbered '1' 2a1 - Divide the end sample number by 588 2a2 - Throw away the fractional part 2a3 - Multiply the whole part by 588 2a4 - This is your proper end sample number 2a5 - Move the end cursor to that sample number and cut. 3 - If your editor reads out in 1000ths of a second 3a - If you can change the mode to samples, do it and go to 2 3b - If you cannot change the mode to samples, quit. Why quit if 3b? --------------- 75 blocks/second ==> 0.017543859649122807... seconds/block (a repeating decimal that does not come out as a whole number of 1000ths of a second). For example: since Cool Edit 1.52 (a 6 year old program) works in 1000ths of a second, it wrongly thinks that 1 second = 44125 samples instead of 44100 samples. A sanity check -------------- To check to see whether the editor is doing the right thing, temporarily save the cut sample as raw pcm. The size of the resulting file in bytes should be evenly divisible by 2352. Where did 2352 come from? ------------------------- 588 samples/block x 2 channels/sample x 2 bytes/channel. About Cool Edit Pro ------------------- On installation, Cool Edit Pro defaults to 1000ths of a second. Change it to work in samples. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31661 Re: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks C. Chambers Fri 1/25/2002 5 KB 31663 Re: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks Mark Filipak Fri 1/25/2002 5 KB 31664 Re: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks C. Chambers Fri 1/25/2002 2 KB 31666 Re: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks Mark Filipak Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB 31668 Re: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks Klaus Beschorner Fri 1/25/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 3:02 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks > Avoiding clicks > =============== > There is an issue when indexing back-to-back music tracks that > are to sound continuous on playback. > > Most concert material is continuous. A silence pad at the end of > a track will produce an audible click at the index point in > back-to-back tracks. Clicks can be avoided by following this > gospel: Make the length of all WAV files a whole multiple of 588 > samples prior to mastering. Mark...another great job explaining some technical concepts in rather non-technical terms. But my question is 'why?' Why do you need to break up a concert into tracks and/or indexes, when all you need to do is use a cuesheet? Most software, such as CDRWIN and Feurio (I believe) have a cuesheet format for burning discs that allows you to put the trackmarks into a text file and when burning the tracks are created on the disc. A link to CDRWIN is here: http://www.goldenhawk.com/cdrwin.htm A sample cue sheet looks like this: FILE 'C:\Music\Burns\Yes\Konocti1.wav' WAVE TRACK 01 AUDIO TITLE 'Track01' PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' INDEX 01 00:00:00 TRACK 02 AUDIO TITLE 'Track02' PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' INDEX 01 00:53:00 TRACK 03 AUDIO TITLE 'Track03' PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' INDEX 01 05:06:00 TRACK 04 AUDIO TITLE 'Track04' PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' INDEX 01 16:19:00 TRACK 05 AUDIO TITLE 'Track05' PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' INDEX 01 16:50:00 TRACK 06 AUDIO TITLE 'Track06' PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' INDEX 01 22:26:00 My personal opinion is CDRWIN is the best and easiest to use software for burning CDR's. Now the trick is getting the track timings to line up with the sector boundaries...which you can do manually by looking at the wave and picking a 'time' that coincides with 1/75 rule, or by using a fantastically simple program that is called 'CDRCUE'. I bought this a few years ago for like $12 I think, and I cannot believe I used to do it manually. CDRCUE lets you load a full wave file into it's 'player', then you fast forward through the file in 1 min. or 10 sec. increments...once you find where you want to place a track break or index, you insert it in realtime as you are listening and it automatically puts the break on the next sector boundary. The link for CDRCUE is here... http://www.dcsoft.com/prod03.htm Checking the link, it looks like it is now $14.95...also, digging around there is a boatload of information on CD burning software comparisons. Check it out! Guys, I cannot emphasize how invaluable this software program is! I can literally take a full 80 min. CD with 15-20 track breaks and create a Cue sheet in minutes. Each track on a sector boundary, and never have to break up the 'big' wave into tracks...just leave it intact. Once you get the hang of doing it this way, you will say 'gee...I used to spend hours doing what now takes me minutes...' Guaranteed! So, the lesson today is: Life can be simple...if you really want it to be. Craig From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 4:00 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question LOL! I have uploaded the RealAudio samples from DT2 to the info page: http://www.tadream.net/musos/watchgirl Joe P.S. if anyone knows how to make a link that will play a RealAudio playlist (so you can click a link and play all the samples in succession), please contact me offlist. > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 5:34 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question > > > Because the copyright is owned by the composer in each case, > and they have > consented to the free copying of this track for the purpose of the > Dreamwatcher's Tales - Fable II tree. > > It's good advertising for those who are actually attempting > to make money > with their music, and for the rest of us, it's a neat way to > let others hear > what we 'sound like'. > > For me, the only purpose in copyrighting is so that another > artist doesn't > revamp my idea with better instruments and make a hit single > out of it! > (Yeah, RIGHT!) > > James > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Matthew Stringer [mailto:qube@f...] > > > Seems to be a few non-list admissions to DWT2, also how can you have > > commercial copywrited tracks on some thing that's supposed to > > be copied? > From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 4:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks Gosh Craig. I thought each track had to be a separate wav file. Have I been wrong? -- first time in the last half hour! :-) Thanks for the great information, and yes, I guess I've been doin' it the hard way. Ciao -- Mark 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > > Avoiding clicks > > =============== > > There is an issue when indexing back-to-back music tracks that > > are to sound continuous on playback. > > > > Most concert material is continuous. A silence pad at the end of > > a track will produce an audible click at the index point in > > back-to-back tracks. Clicks can be avoided by following this > > gospel: Make the length of all WAV files a whole multiple of 588 > > samples prior to mastering. > > Mark...another great job explaining some technical concepts in rather > non-technical terms. But my question is 'why?' > > Why do you need to break up a concert into tracks and/or indexes, when all > you need to do is use a cuesheet? Most software, such as CDRWIN and Feurio > (I believe) have a cuesheet format for burning discs that allows you to put > the trackmarks into a text file and when burning the tracks are created on > the disc. > > A link to CDRWIN is here: > http://www.goldenhawk.com/cdrwin.htm > > A sample cue sheet looks like this: > > FILE 'C:\Music\Burns\Yes\Konocti1.wav' WAVE > TRACK 01 AUDIO > TITLE 'Track01' > PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' > INDEX 01 00:00:00 > TRACK 02 AUDIO > TITLE 'Track02' > PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' > INDEX 01 00:53:00 > TRACK 03 AUDIO > TITLE 'Track03' > PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' > INDEX 01 05:06:00 > TRACK 04 AUDIO > TITLE 'Track04' > PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' > INDEX 01 16:19:00 > TRACK 05 AUDIO > TITLE 'Track05' > PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' > INDEX 01 16:50:00 > TRACK 06 AUDIO > TITLE 'Track06' > PERFORMER 'Unknown Artist' > INDEX 01 22:26:00 > > My personal opinion is CDRWIN is the best and easiest to use software for > burning CDR's. > > Now the trick is getting the track timings to line up with the sector > boundaries...which you can do manually by looking at the wave and picking a > 'time' that coincides with 1/75 rule, or by using a fantastically simple > program that is called 'CDRCUE'. I bought this a few years ago for like $12 > I think, and I cannot believe I used to do it manually. CDRCUE lets you > load a full wave file into it's 'player', then you fast forward through the > file in 1 min. or 10 sec. increments...once you find where you want to place > a track break or index, you insert it in realtime as you are listening and > it automatically puts the break on the next sector boundary. > > The link for CDRCUE is here... > http://www.dcsoft.com/prod03.htm > > Checking the link, it looks like it is now $14.95...also, digging around > there is a boatload of information on CD burning software comparisons. > Check it out! Guys, I cannot emphasize how invaluable this software program > is! > > I can literally take a full 80 min. CD with 15-20 track breaks and create a > Cue sheet in minutes. Each track on a sector boundary, and never have to > break up the 'big' wave into tracks...just leave it intact. Once you get > the hang of doing it this way, you will say 'gee...I used to spend hours > doing what now takes me minutes...' Guaranteed! > > So, the lesson today is: > > Life can be simple...if you really want it to be. > > Craig > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31664 Re: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks C. Chambers Fri 1/25/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 4:28 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks > Gosh Craig. I thought each track had to be a separate wav file. > Have I been wrong? -- first time in the last half hour! :-) > > Thanks for the great information, and yes, I guess I've been > doin' it the hard way. > > Ciao -- Mark > Heh! I did it the hard way for way too long! CDRCUE and WINCDR were godsends...but, I think everyone must be required to do it the painful 'old' way. It's only fair. Craig From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 4:30 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] New York Times Article, 1977 I didn't know any of TD's music ended up in 'The Exorcist'. Is this true, or just a misunderstanding of the author of the article? James I can just picture KS in a foreboding castle dressed in a black cloak pounding away at an enourmous pipe organ! > -----Original Message----- > From: Victor Rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > [...] > scores (some of their music was used for 'The Exorcist' and they have > provided the soundtrack for William Friedkin's forthcoming > shocker 'The > Sorcerer') they slip a little too facilely into sound over substance. [...] > > Schulze can be extraordinary, although he sometimes > slips into a > mad-fiend-at-the-organ-in-the-depths-of-his-castle kind of > noodling. [...]' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31670 Re: New York Times Article, 1977 Michael A Jean Fri 1/25/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 4:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks God Bless this list. And God Bless the Net. I was out of commission for too long. Hey, Joe! You were going to send me a care package. Are these the type of toys you had in mind? -- Mark 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > > Gosh Craig. I thought each track had to be a separate wav file. > > Have I been wrong? -- first time in the last half hour! :-) > > > > Thanks for the great information, and yes, I guess I've been > > doin' it the hard way. > > > > Ciao -- Mark > > > > Heh! I did it the hard way for way too long! CDRCUE and WINCDR were > godsends...but, I think everyone must be required to do it the painful 'old' > way. It's only fair. > > Craig > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 12:05 am Subject: Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales Hi Roger and all, That was a very nice review indeed,I even saved it in my 'texts' folder :) > First of all, I eventually acquired my copy last September, and I kind of had that attitude 'There, I'm cool now, I've got this', and proceeded to play it once (...), and then just left it with the rest of the CD's for a short while. That also happened with me; actually I still haven't totally gotten into DWT, although I got it soon after it was first released. Maybe I should save the time to do nothing else than just listen to it. But some favourites I can remember are Jeff Bergman's Intense Journey, Olyam's Moon Ritual and the total classic Faraday by FSP. > I though I was listening to the opening bars of the Wedding March when Gustavo Jobim's 'Mose (Should it be Morse?) Codes - excerpt' kicks in. I think I would have preferred some of his other work rather than an experimental extract played on an electric organ. Sorry Gustavo, forgive me... No problem, Roger! I'm not sure if I've already said this here; I don't like this track this way either, but the excerpt in DWT are the final minutes of this 10 minute long track. It's one of my earliest, craziest and favourite improvisations on the synth; my arms were burning after I played that insane ending. Unfortunately, even my favourite section isn't there. If anyone is interested, I'll be glad to put the full mp3 of Morse Codes in our files folder, if possible, or send by ICQ. I just can't send by email. -GJ From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 5:49 pm Subject: RE: Redbook vs data plus Avoiding clicks >Gosh Craig. I thought each track had to be a separate wav file. > Have I been wrong? -- first time in the last half hour! :-) Of course. Another way to leave the big WAV intact is to use WinOnCD for burning. You can set the track indices in the Editor. It defaults to block resolution, so no issue with clicks. It basically does the same thing as CDRWins cuesheets, but internally, all you do is click on the proper point in the waveform. cheers, klaus From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 7:28 pm Subject: sheet music Love on a Real Train.pdf 554 KB I am getting a message that says, it isn't there... Can you check and see what is up with this one. I manage to see the rest. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 8:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] New York Times Article, 1977 A misundertanding I believe... MJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 11:31 AM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] New York Times Article, 1977 > > > I didn't know any of TD's music ended up in 'The Exorcist'. > > Is this true, or just a misunderstanding of the author of the article? > > James > > I can just picture KS in a foreboding castle dressed in a black cloak > pounding away at an enourmous pipe organ! > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Victor Rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > > [...] > > scores (some of their music was used for 'The Exorcist' and they have > > provided the soundtrack for William Friedkin's forthcoming > > shocker 'The > > Sorcerer') they slip a little too facilely into sound over substance. > > [...] > > > > > Schulze can be extraordinary, although he sometimes > > slips into a > > mad-fiend-at-the-organ-in-the-depths-of-his-castle kind of > > noodling. [...]' > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 9:44 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New York Times Article, 1977 A very persistent misunderstanding. For your amusement, here are the names of some files I have in my shared directory: pink floyd - tangerine dream -- is neither PF nor TD !!.mp3 tangerine dream - a clockwork orange - is not TD !! .mp3 tangerine dream - never ending story - is Giorio Moroder, not TD !! .mp3 Tangerine Dream - The Exorcist - is Mike Oldfield, not TD !! .mp3 Tangerine Dream - The Never Ending Story - is Giorgio Moroder, not TD !! .mp3 Tangerine Dream - Trance Control - is not TD !! (good techno though) .mp3 Tangerine Dream - Tubular Bells - is Mike Oldfield, not TD !! .mp3 Tangerine_Dream-Never-Ending_Story_[Main_Theme] - is Giorio Moroder, not TD !! .mp3 Theme - Tangerine Dream - Never Ending Story - is Giorgio Moroder, not TD !! .mp3 XXXXX___Live_K_In_12.6.1971_-_01_-_Stratovarius__is_not_Tangerine_Dream___XXXXX_\ .mp3 Since these have started coming up right below the real files, people have begun to wise up and not further propagate these frauds. (The PF & TD one sounds like someone's 'tribute' noodling.) -- Mark Michael A Jean wrote: > > A misundertanding I believe... > > MJ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > > > > I didn't know any of TD's music ended up in 'The Exorcist'. > > > > Is this true, or just a misunderstanding of the author of the article? > > > > James From: 'convention24' Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:54 pm Subject: A very misunderstanding. Hello All I have been most interested in your comments on the Voluptuous sounds of Mr Friedkins EXORCIST,the great Dream never done it,like they never done miami vice,but who gives a HOOT,you people surely understand,TANGERINE DREAM are the greatest of all time,im just off to listen to the incredible Mars Polaris. Best regards Convention24 AKA Astrophobia From: Liondream@a... Date: Fri Jan 25, 2002 11:51 pm Subject: Re: Mtron and sound card (OT) I'm using MOTU 828. When you're talking about virtual effects and instruments sound cards have no bearing on the quality of sound itself. The sound remains internal to the host. You assign a midi controller to your virtual synth and play it as you would any other keyboard. When your track is done (using Cubase as an example), just do an Export audio and the track will be saved as an audio file. The cool thing is that you can do this for multiple tracks, including effects and automation of your mix. All you have to do is Export and Cubase will 'magically' create a stereo mixdown file for you that you can then throw on a cd. With virtual instruments the big issue is latency. The quality of your sound card and drivers, combined with the speed of your cpu, hardrive, and amount of memory all act together to determine the latency of your system. Latency is the length of time it will take from the moment you hit a key to trigger your virtual synth to when you actually hear a sound. At best, it can be negligible and perhaps even better than a slow hardware synth. At worst it can make it almost unuseable. Note, this is only a problem when you're trying to play your virtual instrument or record. If you're just playing stuff back, it won't matter (e.g. everything will play back in sync regardless of your latency). If your system exhibits a very high latency what you could do is record your midi using one of your hardware keyboards playing a sound similar to what you envision as the final sound. Then just reassign the resultant midi track to one of your virtual synths afterwards. Since this is way too technical and off topic for this list, please feel free to e-mail me privately if I can be of any help. Wes <<>> From: 'fredericreynolds' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 2:53 am Subject: Re: [tree] current poll --- In tadream@y..., Heiko Heerssen wrote: > I just noticed that the name 'Marmalade skies' (10 votes) is the current > leader of the poll, closely followed by '(The) Tangerine Tree' (8 > votes)..maybe we should use the combined version 'Tangerine trees and > marmalade skies' (only 2 votes) so that everybody ends up happy :-) Suggest that we use 'Tangerine Tree' for this set, and 'Marmalde Skies' for a sequel! --Fred From: 'John Marchington' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:16 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question Hi Joe, I followed your link to check out some of the DWT II tracks and everything started off well with the excerpt from 'Fable' being loaded into a temporary folder and RealPlayer starting. However, I was then informed that I needed a new plug-in to be able to play the samples and a new window appeared advising me to upgrade to RealOne! Checking it out on the Read Audio web site (which I was automatically taken to) it seemed I was being asked for US$9.95/month -- whatever that means. I notice it's only a beta version anyway. I returned to the Tadream web site and tried the second track 'Contact' only to be confronted with the same problem. What's going on? BTW, I downloaded the excellent artwork for the project so I'll be able to get all that organised. Very impressed with it, actually. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 5:00 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question > LOL! > > I have uploaded the RealAudio samples from DT2 to the info page: > http://www.tadream.net/musos/watchgirl > > Joe > > P.S. if anyone knows how to make a link that will play a RealAudio playlist > (so you can click a link and play all the samples in succession), please > contact me offlist. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 5:34 PM > > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question > > > > > > Because the copyright is owned by the composer in each case, > > and they have > > consented to the free copying of this track for the purpose of the > > Dreamwatcher's Tales - Fable II tree. > > > > It's good advertising for those who are actually attempting > > to make money > > with their music, and for the rest of us, it's a neat way to > > let others hear > > what we 'sound like'. > > > > For me, the only purpose in copyrighting is so that another > > artist doesn't > > revamp my idea with better instruments and make a hit single > > out of it! > > (Yeah, RIGHT!) > > > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Matthew Stringer [mailto:qube@f...] > > > > > Seems to be a few non-list admissions to DWT2, also how can you have > > > commercial copywrited tracks on some thing that's supposed to > > > be copied? > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] greece 83, correct date Having refered to a review of these two shows written by Omiros Karajas (whom I believe also presented the TV broadcast and also interviewed the band in the TV studio), I can confirmed Duncan's post that the concert dates were indeed August 30 and 31. It's strange how the dates of these particular shows have often been confused, even to the extent of the year sometimes being quoted as 1983 and sometimes as 1984! - Chris > hi everyone > below is an email i recieved fro a guy in greece tonight:- > > Hi,I'm e-mailing from Greece, I just wanted to give the > correct dates of the two TD 1983 concerts in Athens: > they were :30 and31August > of 1983-I was then 10 years old but I do remember seeing them in TV few days > after the concerts! > Thank you very much, > Nikos-Greece. > > > Duncan McKee > From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 12:59 pm Subject: re: [tadream] greece 83, correct date Hi all, My concert dates pages have been updated and tidied up with a few additions here and there: http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html From: RJF Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales Thank you for those kind words. >And finally, and an excellent way to finish the set, we have Richard >Ford's 'Another Day'. A slow chord sequence begins what turns out to be >a wonderfully, bouncy, melodic poppy piece with tubular bell effects >embellishing the main melody line further. A great way to end 154 >minutes of music! -- Richard F From: Joe Shoults Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 4:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question you must need to upgrade because of how Yannick encoded the files. I can play them just fine. you can download a FREE RealAudio player to play these, it's just that RealNetworks doesn't make it easy to find on purpose. poke around a bit at www.real.com; you'll find it. > -----Original Message----- > From: John Marchington [mailto:johnm@p...] > I followed your link to check out some of the DWT II tracks > and everything > started off well with the excerpt from 'Fable' being loaded > into a temporary > folder and RealPlayer starting. However, I was then informed > that I needed a > new plug-in to be able to play the samples and a new window appeared > advising me to upgrade to RealOne! Checking it out on the > Read Audio web > site (which I > was automatically taken to) it seemed I was being asked for > US$9.95/month -- > whatever that means. I notice it's only a beta version > anyway. I returned to From: 'David Foster' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 3:24 pm Subject: tree Been away from the computer for a bit. Also in between ISP's. Name - I think it should reflect that the music is (mostly) live and a tree. ' Tangerine Tree Live' or 'Tree of Live'. Sorry don't like Marmalade Skies - pretentious Artwork - I have liked Steve's (craftman / Rotties) pictures for ages. Check them out. I vote for Steve. Time line - I would prefer that concerts of the same time are linked together. Future - I think the ideas to help for future formats like when there are overlaps are great. Not sure if I have anything unique. If anyone is aware of anything let me know. David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 5:47 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] sheet music thanks for the heads up. it is there now. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Administrator for kay-net.com [mailto:admin@k...] > Love on a Real Train.pdf 554 KB > I am getting a message that says, it isn't there... Can you > check and see > what is up with this one. I manage to see the rest. > From: 'vic rek' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] current poll > Suggest that we use 'Tangerine Tree' for this set, and > 'Marmalde Skies' for a sequel! I like this suggestion Fred. This would be a nice set for this effort! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31683 Re: [tree] current poll Joe Shoults Sat 1/26/2002 3 KB 31690 name, artwork, blackout Re: current poll Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/26/2002 4 KB 31694 Re: current poll Utch Entel Sun 1/27/2002 2 KB 31689 Re: [tree] current poll PENFOLD Sat 1/26/2002 2 KB 31760 Re: [tree] current poll Adele Outland Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:46 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] current poll I agree also! Here are the final results: - (The) Tangerine Tree, 14 votes, 30.43% - Marmalade skies, 11 votes, 23.91% - Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies, 4 votes, 8.70% I think Fred's logic *perfectly* follows the poll results, or vice versa. The clear majority liked at least one half or both aspects of this name, totaling 63%. I think it is safe to say that we have killed two birds with one stone here. Maff, Duncan, Gustavo: do you guys agree? (for the artwork) Joe P.S. I'm working on that box design this weekend. > -----Original Message----- > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] current poll > > > Suggest that we use 'Tangerine Tree' for this set, and > > 'Marmalde Skies' for a sequel! > > I like this suggestion Fred. This would be a nice set for > this effort! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31690 name, artwork, blackout Re: current poll Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/26/2002 4 KB 31694 Re: current poll Utch Entel Sun 1/27/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales copyright question I played them fine with Real Player 8 basic. HOWEVER, it did contact RealNetwork to grab the latest codecs. Let it do this, but IGNORE the pop up window that prompts you to upgrade to RealOne. I've found RealOne a pain to use so I went back to RP8 basic. If you prefer RealOne though, you CAN get a free version without all the bells and whistles, just as Joe described. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Shoults [mailto:jshoults@f...] > you must need to upgrade because of how Yannick encoded the > files. I can > play them just fine. you can download a FREE RealAudio player to play > these, it's just that RealNetworks doesn't make it easy to > find on purpose. > poke around a bit at www.real.com; you'll find it. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Marchington [mailto:johnm@p...] > > > I followed your link to check out some of the DWT II tracks > > and everything > > started off well with the excerpt from 'Fable' being loaded > > into a temporary > > folder and RealPlayer starting. However, I was then informed > > that I needed a > > new plug-in to be able to play the samples and a new window appeared > > advising me to upgrade to RealOne! Checking it out on the > > Read Audio web > > site (which I > > was automatically taken to) it seemed I was being asked for > > US$9.95/month -- > > whatever that means. I notice it's only a beta version > > anyway. I returned to From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:24 pm Subject: Tr : [tadream] greece 83, correct date For some reason this message wasn't shown in its entirety, so I'm trying again: ---------- De : 'Paul Fellows' À : tadream@yahoogroups.com Objet : re: [tadream] greece 83, correct date Date : Sam 26 jan 2002 13:59 Hi all, My concert dates pages have been updated and tidied up with a few additions here and there: http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html From: 'horrod6' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:41 pm Subject: (tree) Tree name Fred said 'Suggest that we use 'Tangerine Tree' for this set, and 'Marmalade Skies' for a sequel!' Great idea Fred - you've just changed my voting intentions! LnH Marion From: 'Owens, James' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:44 pm Subject: 220 Volt Just listening to 220 Volt for the first time in about 6 months or so. MAN! What a GREAT ALBUM! I'm kicking myself for missing the 92 tour! Question though: in Backstreet Hero, who is playing the guitar parts? There's some acoustic sections that are definitely Z-man, but there's one part just after 5 minutes that sounds an awful lot like an Edgar riff, but it's very short and followed by another guitar part that sounds like it could be Zlatko, but not really. I wonder if that's Jerome using a little of Dad's style and a little Z-style? James From: 'Vincent Goudreault' Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 9:01 pm Subject: Re: New York Times Article, 1977 > Subject: Re: New York Times Article, 1977 > > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > > I didn't know any of TD's music ended up in 'The Exorcist'. > > Is this true, or just a misunderstanding of the author of the article? > > James Most likely the miss understanding of Mr. Bill Friedkin's quote to the effect that, had he heard TD earlier, he would have asked them to score The Exorcist. To quote from the 'Sorcerer' album sleeve (both the vinyl and the CD) '(...) I first heard the TANGERINE DREAM while in Munich for the opening of THE EXORCIST. Had I heard them sooner I would have asked them to score that film. (...) William Friedkin' C.B.Vincent Goudreault From: PENFOLD Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] current poll At 02.01.26-13:03, vic rek wrote: > > Suggest that we use 'Tangerine Tree' for this set, and > > 'Marmalde Skies' for a sequel! > >I like this suggestion Fred. This would be a nice set for this effort! I third this €0.02 Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 4:52 am Subject: name, artwork, blackout Re: current poll Yes! I'm glad that Tangerine Tree was the most voted. That was my first suggestion, and it was always the best title for me. I also voted on this title, BTW. I still don't really like 'Marmalade Skies', though. About the artwork. I probably have the first three front covers ready. I'm still not sure if I'll change what I have for Bernau 2001 (Inferno), though. I only have one back cover ready, but I already know how I'm going to do the other back cover. Inferno is also the only back cover I haven't even thought about yet. The problem is, there have been this huge blackout here in Brazil last week, and my HD was toasted. I fortunately managed to backup all my files (at least I believe I did so), even with the HD clicking and popping like popcorn (argh). I already have bought a new HD, a bigger one, but still couldn't install it. I'm now using my old pentium 133 at home, and the backup is all at the computer at work, so even if I wanted to continue the work on the covers here on the p133 (and I DONT want at all), I wouldn't be able to do so. I will try to finish the artwork at work, but you know, I'll be at work, so that will certainly be complicated (lots of stuff to do at work). Meanwhile I haven't been able to continue recording my composition... and the university vacation is ending... arrgh.. at least I recorded this massive and f*king gorgeous piece in classic electronic style that sounds a bit like Rubycon and Bayreuth Return... So at least the blackout was good for something. enough rambling. back to the topic... I prefer 'Tangerine Tree', without the 'The'. What do you all think? GJ > I agree also! > > Here are the final results: > - (The) Tangerine Tree, 14 votes, 30.43% > - Marmalade skies, 11 votes, 23.91% > - Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies, 4 votes, 8.70% > > I think Fred's logic *perfectly* follows the poll results, or vice versa. > The clear majority liked at least one half or both aspects of this name, > totaling 63%. I think it is safe to say that we have killed two birds with > one stone here. > > Maff, Duncan, Gustavo: do you guys agree? (for the artwork) > > Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31694 Re: current poll Utch Entel Sun 1/27/2002 2 KB From: Liondream@a... Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 10:09 pm Subject: Tech questions, etc. where to go... (OT) Thought I'd throw this in for those who have questions on sound cards, etc.... check out www.kvr-vst.com - very cool forum for info related to various plug-in effects, virtual instruments, and host-related questions. A lot of good people there, including many developers (had Eric Pershing of Spectrasonics the other day)... etc. Question for Martin as a kind of tangent to your M-Tron comment... I though it might be fun to get your thoughts about some other softsynths... I love the PPG, of course! Have you ever played with the Pentagon from RGC Audio? IMO opinion a fabulous sounding synth and well worth checking out if you haven't yet!!! Best regards, Wes aka Liondream [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31719 Re: Tech questions, etc. where to go... (OT) TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Mon 1/28/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 26, 2002 11:53 pm Subject: Tour Dates >Paul Fellows said: > >My concert dates pages have been updated and tidied up with a few additions >here and there: > >http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html As with John Burek and Mark Schaffer's wonderful Tour Descriptions website (which I wrongly credited to Duncan a few weeks back), I use Paul's website as a Bible for identifying concerts. I was curious about a few things that have come up recently (and some not so recently): Someone said that the 1974 Reims Cathedral concert in France is from September 13, 1974. Klaus B.'s website, your website, and James Owens websites all nail this as a December 13th, 1974 concert. I'd be curious to know for sure, although I'm pretty sure what the answer is. :) http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/75-76.html January 31, 1976 Bilboa, Spain is now appearing in our collective grubby paws and will also be part of the first recipe of the Marmalade Skies tree. :) I'm excited to see that 1983 is starting to fill in. What an elusive year for TD tour info! We know more about 1977 than we do about 83. Go figure! Now if I can nail the actual date of the 1983 Poland video that's floating around. It's not from December 10th. The melodic differences are quite noticeable on the video compared to the 10th. Thanks again, -Morgan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: quarlie@a... Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 3:18 am Subject: Re: [tadream] 220 Volt In a message dated 1/26/02 2:49:34 PM, james.owens@m... writes: >Question though: in Backstreet Hero, who is playing the guitar parts? >There's some acoustic sections that are definitely Z-man, but there's one part >just after 5 minutes that sounds an awful lot like an Edgar riff, but it's very short >and followed by another guitar part that sounds like it could be Zlatko, but not >really. >I wonder if that's Jerome using a little of Dad's style and a little >Z-style? I don't have 220 Volt handy to check if I'm thinking of the same part you are, but the guitar solo in Backstreet Hero is indeed played by Jerome. You can see him play it on the Three Phase video, which I wish they would reissue on DVD. I also wish the Froeses would pick up their guitars more often these days. --Daniel NP: Shadow Gallery - Society of the Mind Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31730 Re: 220 Volt Michael A Jean Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB From: 'Utch Entel' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 7:11 am Subject: Re: current poll >Yes! I'm glad that Tangerine Tree was the most voted. That was my first >suggestion, and it was always the best title for me. I also voted on this >title, BTW. I still don't really like 'Marmalade Skies', though. Although not very popular, I rather liked tadream tree the best. Most appropriate! ...Utch --------------- Tear and crumple after reading --------------- The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what they become by it. --John Ruskin From: 'Craig Cordrey' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 9:39 am Subject: Romancing the Stone Perhaps I'm the last to realise, but I noticed this morning when watching Romancing the Stone that Michael Hoenig is credited with soundtrack production, and the soundtrack itself includes Mark Shreeve's Legion. This is quite a pleasant shock early on a Sunday morning. Cheers, Craig Cordrey Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31701 Re: Romancing the Stone Jim Moore Sun 1/27/2002 3 KB 31908 Romancing the Stone vic rek Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 12:55 pm Subject: Bruce Willis I happened to watch a few minutes of an old Bruce Willis / Cybil Shepherd TV series, 'Moonlightning' I think it is called. In one of the episodes they used a few minutes of a TD song, it's must have been Cloudburst Flight. But not as it appears on the Dream Sequence compilation - it had more drums when the melody kicked in. But i am sure you guys already know this. Glenn From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 1:07 pm Subject: ElektroBeats TOP 10 / 2001 Hi all, here comes the TOP 10 of the 'ElektroBeats' vote of the best electronic CD 2001, broadcast: 23-Jan-2002 on Radio Eins. 10. Christian Kleine - Beyond repair 09. Monolake - Cinemascope 08. Appliance - Imperial Metric 07. Fanger & Schoenwaelder feat. lutz Ulbrich - Analog overdose 06. The Other People Place - Lifestyles of the Laptop Cafe 05. Aphex Twin - Drukqs 04. Klaus Schulze - Live @Klangart 03. Irmin Schmidt & Kumo - Masters of Confusion 02. Plaid - Double Figure * 02. Brian Eno & J. Peter - Drawn from life * 01. TANGERINE DREAM - DREAM MIXES III * same points Regards heiko - Mr. Optical www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Dmitriy V N Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 1:44 pm Subject: Quinoa&DM My NP's are now mostly 1992-95 material. The best album of this period is Qinoa (Only the Quinoa track; lately added Voxel Ux and Lhasa are more 7letters style which I don't like). The middle part of Quinoa appears slightly remixed as Oriental Haze in 220 Volts. This among with the nextcoming and the last sections are my favourites. This track is one of the longest in TD and at least twice longer then any other track since Livemiles. I also invented a few funny things with the first DM. The album itself is completely unremarkable and maybe the worst since 1973. Try Turn Of The Tides with remixed Firetongues, Twilight Brigade and Jungle Journey instead of original. Try same thing with Tyranny Of Beauty (replacing Catwalk, Little Blond and Bride in cold tears). The impression is very different from usual. Try listening to all four Touchwood variants one after another. Then check what you now think of the damned Touchwood:)) Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Dmitriy V N Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 1:45 pm Subject: Talk! Greetings, I'm here again! But where is the discussion? I see only some slowly flowing tree/bootlegs talk... People, are you still alive? Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 3:03 pm Subject: [tree] MP3 Quality Howdy All. I discovered that some people are going to use MP3 and that there will be an MP3 sub-tree. I suggest that you use the Blade encoder. I have some frequency response curves for stuff I've actually done that graphically shows that Blade will give you an extra 5 KHz of frequency response beyond what you would get with Fraunhofer- or LAME-based encoders. Request off list for JPGs. Ciao -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 3:12 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Romancing the Stone I noticed the other night that Hoenig is credited with creating the theme to 'The District' on CBS. - jim -----Original Message----- From: Craig Cordrey [mailto:craig.cordrey@b...] Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 4:39 AM To: Tadream@Y...; ElectronicMusic@yahoogroups.com; Beyond_Em@Y... Subject: [tadream] Romancing the Stone Perhaps I'm the last to realise, but I noticed this morning when watching Romancing the Stone that Michael Hoenig is credited with soundtrack production, and the soundtrack itself includes Mark Shreeve's Legion. This is quite a pleasant shock early on a Sunday morning. Cheers, Craig Cordrey ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 11:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tour Dates Hi Morgan, It seems here we have another example of TD concert history becoming somewhat confused. For years there has been debate amongst fans as to whether TD played once or twice at Rheims Cathedral in 1974. To try and clarify things as much as possible, a few years ago I wrote a short piece bringing together all the information I could find on TD's Rheims shows (plus, in less detail, their other cathedral shows of that era). I have reproduced a short section of it here to try and shed some light. Remember, all this information has been takem from original UK music press articles from that time. 'The first occasion where these philosophies were practised was at Rheims cathedral in France, although the actual date of this concert is seemingly open to some debate. Definitive TD discography 'Voices In The Dunes' lists concerts played there as taking place on 13th September 1974, and 13th December 1974, while most other sources claim the latter of these to be the band's first and only appearance at the legendary building. 'Dunes' also lists the September concert as being the occasion when the church authorities were outraged at the behaviour of the audience and the mess they left behind. Clearly, from trawling through press cuttings dating back to this period, and even from the inner sleeve from the bootleg CD 'Live! Improvised!', this now-infamous concert was actually the one which took place in December. In the articles I have from the UK music press surrounding the December concert, there is not one mention of TD having played there just a few months previously, and even the most comprehensive of fan's live tapes lists fail to even list a September show. Indeed, if we look at how this concert was initially conceived, it becomes more and more likely that the concert of 13th September 1974 never actually took place.' 'The origins of the Rheims concert go back to when one of France's few successful promoters, Asaad, wanted to bring more contemporary music to the then-mostly restored cathedral (it had been all but destroyed by German incendiary bombs and the subsequent fire during the First World War in September 1914). Initially, the Archbishop declined the proposal, decreeing, perhaps understandably, that Rock and Roll music would hardly be the most appropriate sound to be heard emanating from such a holy place. But Asaad was determined to get the religious authorities to agree, and so, with the assistance of the 'Musique-Action de Rheims Organisation', began a search for unusual acts who did not fall into any kind of Rock category. They eventually came up with the names of Nico, a female German singer who had previously worked with The Velvet Underground, and Tangerine Dream, an abstract electronic ensemble, also German, who performed their powerful, meandering, pseudo-classical imaginings in near darkness. The Archbishop, obviously suspicious about this pair of unknown acts, asked to hear some examples of music from each of them. Tangerine Dream played him a copy of the recently recorded 'Phaedra' album, after which he gave his consent to them being allowed to perform. If TD had played Rheims in September, then surely the authorities there would have known precisely what kind of band they actually were, making this whole screening process completely unnecessary, and pushing the September concert further back into the realms of that which never happened.' Hope this makes things a little clearer, but I guess only a quote from Edgar would lay this particular issue to rest. - Chris PS - If anyone wants to read the whole article, please let me know. ----- Original Message ----- From: Morgan Feldon To: Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 3:53 PM Subject: [tadream] Tour Dates > > >Paul Fellows said: > > > >My concert dates pages have been updated and tidied up with a few additions > >here and there: > > > >http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html > > As with John Burek and Mark Schaffer's wonderful Tour Descriptions website > (which I wrongly credited to Duncan a few weeks back), I use Paul's website > as a Bible for identifying concerts. > > I was curious about a few things that have come up recently (and some not > so recently): > > > Someone said that the 1974 Reims Cathedral concert in France is from > September 13, 1974. > Klaus B.'s website, your website, and James Owens websites all nail this as > a December 13th, 1974 concert. I'd be curious to know for sure, although > I'm pretty sure what the answer is. :) > > > http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/75-76.html > January 31, 1976 Bilboa, Spain is now appearing in our collective grubby > paws and will also be part of the first recipe of the Marmalade Skies tree. :) > > > I'm excited to see that 1983 is starting to fill in. What an elusive year > for TD tour info! We know more about 1977 than we do about 83. Go figure! > Now if I can nail the actual date of the 1983 Poland video that's floating > around. It's not from December 10th. The melodic differences are quite > noticeable on the video compared to the 10th. > > > Thanks again, > > -Morgan > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 3:44 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] Tour Dates ---------- >De : Morgan Feldon >À : tadream@yahoogroups.com >Objet : [tadream] Tour Dates >Date : Dim 27 jan 2002 0:53 > > >>Paul Fellows said: >> >>My concert dates pages have been updated and tidied up with a few additions >>here and there: >> >>http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html > > As with John Burek and Mark Schaffer's wonderful Tour Descriptions website > (which I wrongly credited to Duncan a few weeks back), I use Paul's website > as a Bible for identifying concerts. Thanks for the nice compliment :-) > > I was curious about a few things that have come up recently (and some not > so recently): > > > Someone said that the 1974 Reims Cathedral concert in France is from > September 13, 1974. > Klaus B.'s website, your website, and James Owens websites all nail this as > a December 13th, 1974 concert. I'd be curious to know for sure, although > I'm pretty sure what the answer is. :) An extract of a message between Heiko Heerssen & myself from a while back: > Someone pointed out that I have the infamous Reims Cathedral concert in 1974 > listed twice on my pages, once on September 13 and again on December 13. Is > this because the concert was performed in September and broadcast on TV in > December, or did they play there twice? > > Paul Hello Paul, as far as I know TD played Reims only on December 13. In the booklet of the 'Reims live improvised' boot cd there is a copy of the original flyer and it says December, not September. TD played the Reims Cathedral also in 1975, on September 23rd, so maybe this explains why some people got confused with the concert dates. > > > http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/75-76.html > January 31, 1976 Bilboa, Spain is now appearing in our collective grubby > paws and will also be part of the first recipe of the Marmalade Skies tree. :) Thanks for the info, I hadn't spotted that that one was new... Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31704 Re: Re : [tadream] Tour Dates Mark Filipak Sun 1/27/2002 3 KB 31707 Re : [tadream] Tour Dates Paul Fellows Sun 1/27/2002 3 KB 31728 Re: Re : [tadream] Tour Dates Owens, James Mon 1/28/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 4:29 pm Subject: Re: Re : [tadream] Tour Dates Woah! Paul Fellows wrote: -snip- > An extract of a message between Heiko Heerssen & myself from a while back: > > > Someone pointed out that I have the infamous Reims Cathedral concert in 1974 > > listed twice on my pages, once on September 13 and again on December 13. Is > > this because the concert was performed in September and broadcast on TV in > > December, or did they play there twice? > > > > Paul > > Hello Paul, > as far as I know TD played Reims only on December 13. In the booklet of the > 'Reims live improvised' boot cd there is a copy of the original flyer and it > says December, not September. TD played the Reims Cathedral also in 1975, on > September 23rd, so maybe this explains why some people got confused with the > concert dates. My records show TD playing the opera house in Reims on 23 Sep 75, not the cathedral. I have read that the pope banned TD from ever again playing in a Catholic church following the reconsecration of the fouled Reims Cathedral, fouled as a result of the show in 74. If you have other information, please enlighten me. Thanks -- Mark From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 4:31 pm Subject: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Hi all, Just had a mooch around the site, must say that the overall quality of this package is even better than the first (which is really saying something), in all aspects from production of the tracks themselves, the rhythms and melodies and not to mention the cover. Very impressed, I look forward to receiving the whole thing :-) A bit disappointed that Free System Projekt didn't contribute this time though, 'Faraday' was my favourite track from the first one... On the other hand Gustavo Jobim's track is a vast improvement on his contribution last time (no offence, just didn't think that last track 'belonged' for style reasons)... Well done all for a fine effort :-) Paul Fellows > > I have uploaded the RealAudio samples from DT2 to the info page: > http://www.tadream.net/musos/watchgirl > > Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31708 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Marcel Engels Sun 1/27/2002 2 KB 31709 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Gustavo Jobim Sun 1/27/2002 3 KB 31714 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Bill Fox Mon 1/28/2002 3 KB 34081 Dreamwatchers' Tales II Tom Richmond Tue 5/21/2002 3 KB 34082 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Totta Tue 5/21/2002 4 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 4:33 pm Subject: Re: Re : [tadream] Tour Dates -- update about Reims 13 Dec 74 About the 13 Dec 74, Reims Cathedral show: 'The cathedral held around 2000 people, but the promoter managed to squeeze 5000 in. It was a terrible situation. People couldn't move, they couldn't get out, and because there were no toilets inside, everybody had to piss up against the walls. You can imagine the mess by the end of the concert. What's more, we got the blame for it. Even the Pope stepped in. He banned us from playing every Catholic church in the world.' - EF ('Melody Maker' magazine, 8 Oct 1994). Ciao -- Mark From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 4:36 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] Tour Dates > Paul Fellows wrote: > -snip- >> An extract of a message between Heiko Heerssen & myself from a while back: >> >> > Someone pointed out that I have the infamous Reims Cathedral concert in 1974 >> > listed twice on my pages, once on September 13 and again on December 13. Is >> > this because the concert was performed in September and broadcast on TV in >> > December, or did they play there twice? >> > >> > Paul >> >> Hello Paul, >> as far as I know TD played Reims only on December 13. In the booklet of the >> 'Reims live improvised' boot cd there is a copy of the original flyer and it >> says December, not September. TD played the Reims Cathedral also in 1975, on >> September 23rd, so maybe this explains why some people got confused with the >> concert dates. > > My records show TD playing the opera house in Reims on 23 Sep 75, not the > cathedral. I have read that the pope banned TD from ever again playing in a > Catholic church following the reconsecration of the fouled Reims Cathedral, > fouled as a result of the show in 74. If you have other information, please > enlighten me. > > Thanks -- Mark Very good point, it's logical that if they were banned from the Catholic church in 1974 that they didn't play there again in 1975, can you tell us where your info about the opera house comes from? Paul From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 6:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II > From: Paul Fellows [mailto:pfellows@c...] > > A bit disappointed that Free System Projekt didn't contribute this time > though, 'Faraday' was my favourite track from the first one... I would have made a contribution but I had to do some concert in the last part of last year plus I was in the midst of moving to another house. Sorry. We'll see next time! :-) Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... thanks for the kind words, it makes it all worthwile! From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:51 am Subject: Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Hello all, I have this Software album, called Software-Visions, and I'd like to trade it for an album by KS or TD (or maybe anything else you might suggest). Please send me an email if you're interested. -------- > A bit disappointed that Free System Projekt didn't contribute this time > though, 'Faraday' was my favourite track from the first one... Exactly my feelings. Hope Marcel can make it next time. about my track (sorry, I can't avoid commenting!) > On the other hand Gustavo Jobim's track is a vast improvement on his > contribution last time (no offence, just didn't think that last track > 'belonged' for style reasons)... Yes, a vast improvement indeed, but that old track was just some experimental lunacy anyway. Actually I submitted it just because I knew it didn't belong, to make it different ;) My electronic tracks from that period were still much more technically amateur than Drifting, and I was pretty sure of the overall good quality we were going to get in DWT1, so I decided to submit Morse Codes for DWT1. I'm very satisfied to already hear positive comments about Drifting, since I made it specially for DWT2. Glad you like it! I still haven't heard the Realaudio thing, just don't want to spend time downloading or doing anything special on this Almostjunk (my old P-133). I hope I get that win2000 cd to get back on track soon. Meanwhile I'm using webmail (argh). -GJ now playing: Jarre's Concerts in China. total electronic classic if you ask me; certainly one of his finest albums. just played KS's Miditerranean Pads before: another fine album. From: 'fozziebear' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 8:45 pm Subject: (tree) Thanks to everyone who is making this tree possible. Will any credits appear on the project of those that made it possible? On the David Bowie CD 'Bowie at the Beeb' the names of the people who attended the concert on 27 June 2000 appear in the booklet in the jewel case. Anyone have any views on the tree names (nicknames) / credits appearing on the artwork, either as a momento or accountability? David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 5:01 am Subject: TD - live in various cathedrals Hi everyone, Below is the article which a few people have asked I post in its entirety. It was written for the long-defunct 'Voyager' magazine some 4 years ago, but as it packed in without another issue being done, the article was never printed. The information it contains has been gathererd together from several entensive UK music press articles from 1974-75, a few small press cuttings, and the odd line from 'The Tangible Dream.' I hope it proves an interesting read for some of you. TANGERINE DREAM - LIVE IN VARIOUS CATHEDRALS Back in an earlier stage in Tangerine Dream's history, an era when their music, then a free-form sonic journey through the mind of the listener, was virtually entirely improvised on stage, the band members, then Edgar Froese, Chris Franke and Peter Baumann, became attracted to the idea of performing their music within the unique and imposing environment of churches and cathedrals. Until that point, the band had played in a very diverse range of venues, from small clubs, gymnasiums and even an inflated tent, to open-air festivals and universities. Their first genuine tour as such, took place in the UK between October and December 1974, when they played more traditional venues such as London's Rainbow Theatre and Bristol's Colston Hall. Even so, the band still felt their sound could be better presented and experienced in more specialist surroundings. Edgar Froese: 'We do it for the acoustic possibilities. You couldn't listen to a normal beat in a cathedral because there would be so much feedback and echo, so that is why we have church people go along with our ideas. But what we don't want is the leaders of the church thinking our concert gives them the possibility to bring in young people to church. It is the music, and what we are doing is trying to show how many possibilities there are in music. We want to show different things, so we might try to play on the sea or on a ship or in a church or whatever. What we try to do is to keep moving musically and with our ideas, so the worst thing for us would be to play a lot of years always the same, the same, the same,' he explained. 'We prefer doing special, memorable events than playing conventional concerts. Cathedrals have incredible acoustic possibilities, especially since most of them were built before there was any amplification. In these buildings the atmosphere is more conducive to concentration than elsewhere, and our music demands concentration.' Peter Baumann: 'For the churches, we have a very nice amplification system and we have very many not-too-big speakers which we place everywhere, about 12-16 channels. You cannot say it is quadraphonic. It is more than that. With our group we don't need a mixer because the instruments are mixed by ourselves. We are not like other groups who use the normal mixing man.' The first occasion where these philosophies were practised was at Rheims cathedral in France, although the actual date of this concert is seemingly open to some debate. Definitive TD discography 'Voices In The Dunes' lists concerts played there as taking place on 14th September 1974, and 13th December 1974, while most other sources claim the latter of these to be the band's first and only appearance at the legendary building. 'Dunes' also lists the September concert as being the occasion when the church authorities were outraged at the behaviour of the audience and the mess they left behin.. Clearly, from trawling through press cuttings dating back to this period, and even from the inner sleeve from the bootleg CD 'Live! Improvised!', this now-infamous concert actually took place on 13th December 1974. In the articles I have from the UK music press surrounding the December concert, there is not one mention of TD having played there just a few months previously, and even the most comprehensive of fan's live tapes lists fail to even list it. Indeed, if we look at how this concert was initially conceived, it becomes more and more likely that the concert of 13th September 1974 never actually took place. The origins of the Rheims concert go back to when one of France's few successful promoters, Asaad, wanted to bring more contemporary music to the then-mostly restored cathedral (it had been all but destroyed by German incendiary bombs, and the subsequent fire, during the First World War in September 1914). Initially, the Archbishop declined the proposal, decreeing, perhaps understandably, that Rock and Roll music would hardly be the most appropriate sound to be heard emanating from such a holy place. But Asaad was determined that the religious authorities agree, and so, with the assistance of the 'Musique-Action de Rheims Organisation', began a search for unusual acts who did not fall into any kind of Rock category. They eventually came up with the names of Nico, a female German singer who had previously worked with The Velvet Underground, and Tangerine Dream, an abstract electronic ensemble, also German, who performed their powerful, meandering, pseudo-classical imaginings in near darkness. The Archbishop, obviously suspicious about this pair of unknown acts, asked to hear some examples of music from each of them. Tangerine Dream played him a copy of the recently recorded 'Phaedra' album, after which he gave his consent to them being allowed to perform. If TD had played Rheims in September, then surely the authorities there would have known precisely what kind of band they actually were, making this whole screening process completely unnecessary, and pushing the September concert further back into the realms of that which never happened. A press release was then issued, with the headline 'Un Risque Calcule'. It went on to say that it was hoped the concert would bring people together to witness the arts in a place of beauty. The more cynical observers, however, claimed that the Archbishop's agreement to the concert taking place was more a financial decision than anything else, and that the fee for hiring the cathedral for the evening would go some way towards paying for its continued restoration. Indeed, massive restoration work would be needed in the near future if disruptive splinter group 'les Anarchistes's threat that they were going to bomb the cathedral at 8.00 on the evening of the concert had been carried out. As it transpired, they were not taken seriously, as all of their previous bomb threats had came to nothing, as did their warning about the Rheims cathedral that night. Apparently, neither TD nor Nico were told of the threat before the concert, for fear that they would refuse to play under such circumstances. Worried that he would face ridicule for hiring out a place of God for financial gain, the Archbishop soon withdrew the fee for hiring the cathedral, instead instructing Asaad that a 4000 franc donation (approx. £400) to its restoration fund would be greatly appreciated. At the time, this was about half the fee someone would have needed to pay to hire a major UK venue, and only a fifth of what it would have cost to hire the Paris Olympia. The actual tickets were put on sale at between 15 and 24 francs (about £1.50 to £2.40). Crash barriers were erected outside the entrances, much to the consternation of the local priests who were unaware of the threat from 'les Anarchistes' and other such movements, who, aside from the bomb warning, also had a habit of barging their way into every major concert in France. The promoters, eager to avoid any trouble, took no chances, especially in the wake of 'les Anarchistes' causing chaos at a Gong concert in Paris only three weeks earlier. In the end, there was only one minor, isolated incident, and even that was caused by a surge of fans, who, having entered from the West Porch doors. and keen to gain the best spots on the marbled floor, caused about fifty people to be left with bruises and bloody noses from the resulting crush. Sadly though, the night would still had its most infamous scenes to come. After about an hour and a half of patience on the audience's behalf, during which time certain sections of which took to hissing, booing and slow hand clapping, such was the delay in the proceedings getting underway, the priest delivered an extended version of the press handout from the stage in both English and French, saying that it was hoped 'we will be able to create a grand and mysterious moment', but also warning that any trouble or damage caused to the cathedral would severely jeopardise the possibility of similar concerts being held there in the future. Looking back on the events of that night, his words could hardly have been more prophetic. Enter Tangerine Dream, with Messrs Froese, Franke and Baumann taking their positions amid their banks of equipment in the semi-darkness of the High Altar. Their first set, some forty-six minutes long, was a gradual exercise in the improvised layering of simple sounds and tones, and results in an extended section of music that possesses an undeniable haunting beauty, both ominous and brooding in some promise of greater things it may or may not deliver, and curiously beckoning, in that the listener's mind is given both license and opportunity to wander within, and somehow become wrapped inside, the layers of sounds, and find a niche where the conscience can be taken along by the filaments of the music's flow. The set is a hugely effective one and, at its eventual conclusion, is met with enthusiastic applause. After several minutes of silence, Nico settled herself next to her gold and mahogany harmonium and delivers her own set, a stark contrast to that played by TD, with her voice emanating from clouds of breath caused by the near-freezing temperature. Her set was so well received she was called back for an encore. At thirty-seven minutes, TD's second set is shorter than their first, perhaps because of Nico's encore. The music they performed was more experimental this time, with more emphasis on a wealth of unearthly sounds mixed in with a building momentum that reached a crescendo after some twenty-five minutes, when the band's sound reached it's deepest and richest. In contrast to a far more lyrical opening set, this second piece was much similar in style to the music they would perform live during the 1975-76 tours, with layers of rhythm acting as a frame-work beneath the overall sound. The first news of what resulted in this concert becoming the most notorious in TD's history was reported in both the newspapers and the music press over the next couple of weeks. In the UK, 'Melody Maker' reported that angry parishioners were calling for the purification of the cathedral following the mess left behind by the 6000-strong audience. They were appalled by what they described as the 'desecration' of the 12th Century building. Some worshippers even prepared a statement reading: 'The church is a place of worship and not a festival hall. It is abnormal that the Pope and Archbishop should allow Pagan music to be played there. The cathedral was turned into a smoking den, and a drug and alcohol orgy took place.' The reason for their upset was discovered after the crowds had dispersed from the cathedral, leaving behind them an appalling mess. Puddles of urine were found everywhere, including, perhaps worst of all, the very spot where virtually all of France's kings had been crowned over the centuries. Mountains of litter were scattered over the marbled floors, and it was clear that many of those in the audience had been smoking pot. There were urine stains on many of the magnificent pillars, and many couples, perhaps due to the low temperature, were seen (shock horror!) cuddling and kissing. While the latter of these may not seem the greatest of crimes, perhaps it was not the most appropriate behaviour in a house of God. Judging events from a purely factual point of view, Father Bernard Goureau, cultural attache of the Arch Diocese was qouted as saying: 'It is true that certain youths smoked pot to communicate more with the sound of Tangerine Dream and the show. It is also true that some others, perhaps because of the need that prevailed, found it necessary to urinate against the pillars. It is also true that some, because of the cold in the cathedral. were seen folded in each others arms and kissing. But it is also true that some 6000 youths, staying three hours in the dark, stretched out on the floor, enjoyed the music and could have caused more serious damage and behaved in a more disgraceful manner.' Two factors did not help in the events of that night. One was that due to disorganisation on the behalf of the promoters, about 6000 people were crammed into an area which was only really large enough to hold 2000. The second was that there were no toilet facilities available to those 6000 people. Edgar Froese: 'What do you do if you want to go to the rest-room and can't move?' French newspapers immediately carried accounts of what had happened, with outraged editorials and banner headlines plastering their pages. Within a day the New York Times had also ran a piece, and already the concert was slipping into legend. The news was passed on to The Pope himself, the result of which was that, rather unfairly, Tangerine Dream were themselves blamed for the scenes, and were subsequently banned from playing in any catholic building ever again. Edgar Froese: 'The result was that we were perhaps the only band in the world to have been banned by the Pope himself from playing in churches. We've got it in writing.' One good thing to emerge from this ban was that the opposing party, the Protestants, then invited TD to play in some of the cathedrals in the UK. Maybe they wanted to cash in on the musical success of the Rheims concert. If the Catholics no longer wanted TD to play on their ground, then the Protestants would hopefully benefit from the publicity the Rheims concert had generated for the band. But before any such concerts in the UK, TD sold out another cathedral, the Saint Benno Kirche in Munich on 25th April 1975, which was also a huge success. Unfortunately, this seems to be the only one of the cathedral concerts not to be circulated between fans as a live tape. Of all the comprehensive lists I've referred to, not one of them lists this particular show. The concerts TD played in the cathedrals of Coventry (4th October) and Liverpool (16th October) and in York Minster (20th October) were incorporated as part of their 1975 UK tour. They had also looked into the possibility of playing St. Paul's cathedral in London, but it was booked up for the next 18 months. A great testament to the music and attitude of Tangerine Dream came from The Dean of Liverpool, the Very Reverend Edward Patey, who wrote in the Liverpool cathedral newsletter: 'It is true that most of the music heard on Top Of The Pops and in record stores is superficial. second-hand and fifth rate. That kind of music has no place in cathedrals such as Coventry, Liverpool and York, which all stand for artistic excellence. But the three members of Tangerine Dream, Edgar Froese Chris Franke and Peter Baumann, belong to an entirely different world from that of commercialised pop. They are skilled musicians with expert craftsmanship and brilliant powers of improvisation. If the music of Tangerine Dream can provide a genuine meeting point for both pop fans and serious music lovers, this may be a further theological reason why their music should be welcome in Coventry, Liverpool and York. It may well be that these three brilliant young German musicians have a real contribution to bring in reconciling those whose experience seems to be poles apart.' In a later interview, he went on to say: 'I wasn't all that surprised when they approached me. My only reaction when I am asked about a group is why do they want to do it in the cathedral? Would it be better here than anywhere, and would it fit in with what the cathedral stands for? Would it be bringing in the wrong kind of element artistically, or the right kind? My first reaction was to find out what they sounded like. So I listened to the records which they kindly gave me and I was interested in them. I liked Tangerine Dream as soon as I heard them.' He went on to comment: 'This is the first time there has been any electronic music in the cathedral, and I'm interested to see how it goes in our walls.' When questions about whether he had any reservations due to the events at Rheims, Mr. Patey answered: 'My information is that the Rheims concert was the only time there was any trouble, and as far as I am aware the trouble was not from the actual audience but from some people who came along to make trouble deliberately, some kind of anarchist group or something. They also made the mistake of admitting something like 5000 people and we shall cut that down considerably. I see no reason why there should be trouble. The Rheims thing was a pity, but I don't think it was anything to do with the music.' Again, there was no actual fee in the hiring of Liverpool cathedral, and presumably this was also the case at Coventry and York. As at Rheims, the promoters instead gave a donation to the cathedral's fund. The most famous of the UK cathedral concerts was perhaps the one at Coventry, mainly due to the fact that the performance was filmed by Tony Palmer. It was broadcast on BBC2 on 3rd October 1976, almost a year to the day later, but strangely without the soundtrack from the actual concert. The story passed among fans was that someone at the BBC either lost, or accidentally erased, the original live soundtrack, and that what is actually heard on the film is simply a copy of 'Ricochet' dubbed onto what was filmed. Maybe that is why the introductory piano piece from 'Ricochet Part 2' is not included in the film. If TD never performed this piece at Coventry, there would be no piece of film to match up to the sound of a piano playing. Also, at the end of the film, when the audience applause can be heard, the accompanying shots of the band do not seem to be from the end of a concert. Instead of reclining in their seats, acknowledging the audience, or glancing at each other, they still seem to be concentrating on playing, even though, according to the film's soundtrack, the music had already ended. All this adds to the story that the soundtrack heard is not the one actually recorded on the night. Either way, the film was only ever broadcast on that one occasion, causing fans to this day to make do with poor quality fifth generation video copies of the now-legendary film. After TD's run of five cathedral concerts in almost a year, the band decided to take a break from playing in such venues, a break which has remained to this day. Edgar Froese: 'The first time we ever did it was the best and now I think after England we will stop doing it. Once you have done something and done it well, there is no point in doing it again if you can't improve it. Peter Baumann: 'We don't want to say exactly 'no more cathedrals' because there may be one we don't know about that will have good acoustic possibilities, and we'll try it again. There might be some nice little place on a little island that we don't know about at all.' Asked in 1988, in issue 4 of the band's fan club magazine 'The Tangible Dream', if Edgar would ever consider playing in cathedrals again, he answers, ever true to his maxim of never repeating stages in the band's history,: 'No!' - Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31725 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Antonio Nunes Mon 1/28/2002 3 KB 31729 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals fozziebear Mon 1/28/2002 2 KB 31731 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Dennis Nigbur Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31732 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals braddito Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31733 TD - live at Coventry cathedral braddito Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31745 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Mark Filipak Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31751 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Mark Filipak Tue 1/29/2002 4 KB 31752 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Rolf Elfström Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31754 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Mark Filipak Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 10:17 pm Subject: 'Christ' debut, Dali's Villa, Port Lligat, Spain [Jul 67] - The Ones? This is directed specifically to Paul Fellows but I thought others might like to comment -- knowledgeable people are requested to comment. Paul, I was doing some routine checking of facts. In the process I fount that on this page, http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/68-74.html you have this entry for 1968 ? [meaning date is unknown] Port Lligat, Spain Music z. Einweihung der 'Christus Statue' von Salvadore Dali Here is what my chronology has for this occasion: ________________________________________________________________________ 'Christ' debut, Dali's Villa, Port Lligat, Spain [Jul 67] - The Ones _______ __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Composed for the debut of Salvador Dali's 'Christ', a sculpture made of rain barrels, bicycles and metal. - from an article by Stephan Schelle, 'Rock News' magazine, No. 12, Oct-Dec, 2000. ________________________________________________________________________ The source citation: Stephan Schelle, is mainly for the date. Based on that date and the fact that Tangerine Dream was 'born' on 29 Sep 67, I surmise that the band that performed for the debut was The Ones, not Tangerine Dream, HOWEVER, though I know when TD was 'born', I don't know when The Ones 'died'. Also, though Edgar is credited with composing the music, I do not know who actually performed the music for S. Dali and his guests. For all I know, it could have been a hired orchestra! The full quote is as follows: 'In July 1967 he [Edgar Froese] composed the music for the inauguration of Dali's Christ statue, a sculpture made of rainbarrels, bicycles and metal.' I reiterate: Knowledgeable people are requested to comment. Ciao -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: snowdog747@a... Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:01 am Subject: Danger in Dream!!! Entrance I apologize if this is a repeat of previous discussion, but I haven't been reading many postings lately. I ordered a CD of of Synth Music Direct based upon the review. CD is 'Danger in Dream''Entrance'. This is some of the best music you will ever listen to. I can't stop playing it. Incredible sequencer music. I thought some of Arcane's music was hard to beat, but Danger in Dream is excellent from beginning to end. I have found a new favorite that will be hard to top. It stirs your emotions like earlier TD. If only TD was still cranking out 'sounds' like this!!! Ben Graber bgraber2@h... snowdog747@a... From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 1:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II -----Original Message----- From: Paul Fellows >Very impressed, I look forward to >receiving the whole thing :-) Since Vol 1 was a 2 CD set, I'm assuming that Vol 2 will be, too. Given that, when I receive Vol 2, that will allow me to spend a month featuring these discs on my show. Cheers, Bill billfox@f... http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic =============================================================================== Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. Thursdays at 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration. Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!] From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:47 am Subject: Sounscapes Concert Series Announcing a new concert series: S O U N D S C A P E S For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, Orbital Decay will appear in concert at the City of Bethlehem's IceHouse on Sand Island. Located in historic Bethlehem, the IceHouse is a wonderful venue for a concert of spacemusic. This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, starting at 8:00 pm. The doors will open at 7:30 pm and Chef Jeff will cater a free buffet dinner. Tickets at the door will be $10. A $2 discount will be given for students with ID card and for members of WMUH and WDIY who show their membership card. This is an all ages show. Advance tickets will be $8 (no discounts), available at the Compact Disc Center located at 1365 Easton Ave. near Linden St. in Bethlehem. Orbital Decay consists of electric guitarist Tim Richardson and synthesist Terry Furber of Quakertown, Pennsylvania. Originally founded in 1979, the year when Skylab's orbit decayed in a firey return to Earth, the band is influenced by the likes of Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze, and Pink Floyd. Terry and Tim create improvisational electronic space music with the energy of fusion styles of the 70s. This means that Orbital Decay charts unexplored territory of sound and mood. Orbital Decay has three self-released CDR albums featuring their prolific studio jam sessions. These CDRs were featured on EMUSIC in December, 2001, as part of the Special Focus on Orbital Decay. On December 27th, Orbital Decay performed a live, in-studio concert during EMUSIC on WDIY. They also performed on WXPN's Star's End in Philadelphia last August. Listen to EMUSIC for more music from Orbital Decay. Directions to the IceHouse and information about the concert can be found at: http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/events.html For more information about Bethlehem, please visit http://www.bethtour.org/ For more information about the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton and vicinity), please visit http://www.lehighvalleypa.org/index.html Please forward this message to anyone who you think will be interested. Best regards, Bill billfox@f... http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic =============================================================================== Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. Thursdays at 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration. Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31735 Sounscapes Concert Series Liondream@a... Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31763 Re: Sounscapes Concert Series Michael A Jean Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 31750 Re: Sounscapes Concert Series Bill Fox Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31764 Re: Sounscapes Concert Series Michael A Jean Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 32199 Sounscapes Concert Series Bill Fox Thu 2/14/2002 5 KB From: 'Neil Hudson' Date: Sun Jan 27, 2002 2:35 pm Subject: Fake mp3s Another fake mp3 that comes up from time to time is called something like 'X-Tangerine Dream - Reaction in G (live 1967)'. I ran a search on Google, and it seems to be a Pink Floyd track. On a related subject, I recently downloaded a track called 'Electronic History 101 - 29-09-1968 Grugahall, Essen'. The result was seven and a half minutes of a muffled 'Journey Through A Burning Brain'. Does a tape of this concert actually exist, or are they all fakes? Neil Hudson Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31717 Re: Fake mp3s Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/28/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Fake mp3s > On a related subject, I recently downloaded a track called 'Electronic > History 101 - 29-09-1968 Grugahall, Essen'. Please forget the 'Electronic history' compilation & tracklisting, it was done by somebody who was a bloody amateur in 1997 (yes... ME! ;-) > The result was seven and a half minutes of a muffled 'Journey Through A > Burning Brain'. Does a tape of this concert actually exist, or are they all > fakes? there exists a 36 minute radio broadcast of that show. The music is very experimental and 'far out'. Heiko From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:38 am Subject: OT: Automatically set your system time - freeware. Hi All. Tired of seeing your posts getting lost because your system time is off by hours, days, or years? The following is an entirely painless and automatic way to avoid time embarrassment. There is an application for MS-Windows named Automachron. If someone finds similar client software for Macintosh, please post information to the list to help our Mac friends. Automachron is an SNTP (simple network time protocol) client. I downloaded it from Steeve McCauley (aka: One Guy Coding). It's freeware. There are others, but I think this is the only one that has the option to automatically run upon dialup connection. Most others are shareware, do not wait for dialup connection, and for that matter, do not even run automatically. For information: http://www.oneguycoding.com (the Automachron link is part way down the page). Note that since he can no longer support >10 GB of downloads per month (!!), One Guy Coding requests download from one of the sites listed here: http://www.oneguycoding.com/automachron/ The download is only 400 K-bytes. How to configure Automachron ============================ Assuming you run Windows and have a dial-up connection to the Internet, you can set it up as follows: - Run on startup and wait until you go on-line (wait for dialup connection option), then - Contact the SNTP server of your choise, then - Set the system time in your computer, then - Quit, automatically (Close after Sync option). Tip - Hosts: See Hosts section, below. Tip - Set Options as follows: X Quiet - run in background. Report only - (why would anyone want this option?) X Sync at startup - this is sync option (explained below). X Close after sync - (explained below). X Wait for dialup connection - if you have a dialup connection. Broadcast client - if you are on a LAN that has a broadcast server/gateway. X On top - so that if you reconfig, you don't have to put other windows away to find it. Systray icon - your choise here, I don't have this (unneeded really). X Run at startup - otherwise, it must be run manually. X Log - something to look at just in case there's an error (like your chosen NTP host goes bust). Verbose - this is up to you. Sync at startup: This tells the program to compensate for average ping time from the NTP host. Otherwise, it doesn't. Don't use this if you are on a LAN that connects to the Internet through a gateway. Close after sync: This tells the program not to hang around with nothing more to do (duh!). (Hold 'CTRL' key down when launching to turn this option back off so you can see and reconfigure Automachron.) Hosts ===== A list of worldwide, Public NTP Primary (stratum 1) Time Servers is here: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/clock1.htm and a list of worldwide, Public NTP Secondary (stratum 2) Time Servers is here: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/clock2.htm or search the net for the exact string: 'Internet Time Service'. Just in case you don't like Automachron, there's a comprehensive list of other NTP client software here: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/software/software.html Let me know what you think of Automachron. Ciao -- Mark (brought to you as a public service :-) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31723 Re: OT: Automatically set your system time - free quarlie@a... Mon 1/28/2002 2 KB 31727 Re: OT: Automatically set your system time - free Administrator for kay-net.com Mon 1/28/2002 6 KB From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Tech questions, etc. where to go... (OT) At 17:09 26.01.02 , you wrote: >Thought I'd throw this in for those who have questions on sound cards, >etc.... check out www.kvr-vst.com - very cool forum for info related to >various plug-in effects, virtual instruments, and host-related questions. A >lot of good people there, including many developers (had Eric Pershing of >Spectrasonics the other day)... etc. > *I will look into this. >Question for Martin as a kind of tangent to your M-Tron comment... I though >it might be fun to get your thoughts about some other softsynths... > >I love the PPG, of course! > *Me, too... I do heavily Eighties influenced goth rock with some bits of operatic art rock thrown in - hence the PPG (very Ultravox/Visage-ish) plus the M-Tron is perfect for me. >Have you ever played with the Pentagon from RGC Audio? IMO opinion a fabulous >sounding synth and well worth checking out if you haven't yet!!! > *No, will try to get my hands on it. Have you tried the CronoX from LinPlug? That´s a nice one, too, IMO. Or the Absynth... hard to get into ... but fabulous once you get the hang of it. >Best regards, > >Wes >aka Liondream > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:01 am Subject: (OT) RE: [tadream] Tech questions, etc. where to go... (OT) 'cubase vst lovers' , do you know buzz, a virtual sequencer, similar to cubase but freeware, with the possibilty to use vst instruments and effects. It has alot virtual synths and effects, available at www.buzzmachines.com , so lovers of cubase, give it a try ;-) Greetings Bert -----Original Message----- From: TDI MUSIC- Martin K. [mailto:manager@t...] Sent: maandag 28 januari 2002 11:41 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tadream] Tech questions, etc. where to go... (OT) At 17:09 26.01.02 , you wrote: >Thought I'd throw this in for those who have questions on sound cards, >etc.... check out www.kvr-vst.com - very cool forum for info related to >various plug-in effects, virtual instruments, and host-related questions. A >lot of good people there, including many developers (had Eric Pershing of >Spectrasonics the other day)... etc. > *I will look into this. >Question for Martin as a kind of tangent to your M-Tron comment... I though >it might be fun to get your thoughts about some other softsynths... > >I love the PPG, of course! > *Me, too... I do heavily Eighties influenced goth rock with some bits of operatic art rock thrown in - hence the PPG (very Ultravox/Visage-ish) plus the M-Tron is perfect for me. >Have you ever played with the Pentagon from RGC Audio? IMO opinion a fabulous >sounding synth and well worth checking out if you haven't yet!!! > *No, will try to get my hands on it. Have you tried the CronoX from LinPlug? That´s a nice one, too, IMO. Or the Absynth... hard to get into ... but fabulous once you get the hang of it. >Best regards, > >Wes >aka Liondream > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31724 Re: (OT) RE: [tadream] Tech questions, etc. where Marcel Engels Mon 1/28/2002 3 KB From: 'coldwatercanyon' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:38 pm Subject: Wanted: Mars Polaris Mispress CD Hello Who has a spare of this CD available for swap? Jeffrey Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 35864 Wanted: Mars Polaris Mispress CD Jeffrey Au Yeung tangram80 Tue 9/3/2002 2 KB From: peter.stoeferle@t... Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:10 pm Subject: 'Lucy in the sky' and The Ones From: '3N' Subject: Re: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection > From: > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak > > writes: > > > > >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' > > >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > Yes, Mark has right, Stev has right, but finally _I_ have right - the Eddy's > band name is directly from the title of record from band of sixtieth years > band named Caleidoscope. ...and the following text line: '...hush, the trees turn tangerine, hush, the sky is suddenly green...' is not from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds', buit from the The Ones single 'Lady Greengrass / Love of mine'... Greetings Peter From: quarlie@a... Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: Automatically set your system time - freeware. In a message dated 1/28/02 5:40:14 AM, filipak@e... writes: >Hi All. Tired of seeing your posts getting lost because your system time >is off by hours, days, or years? The following is an entirely painless >and automatic way to avoid time embarrassment. > >There is an application for MS-Windows named Automachron. If someone finds >similar client software for Macintosh, please post information to the list >to help our Mac friends. This function is built into the Mac OS. In OS 9, it's in the Date & Time control panel (check the 'use a network time server' checkbox). I don't have OS X so I don't know the details there. For earlier Mac OS versions, there's a shareware utility called NetChronometer that does the same thing. It can be downloaded here: http://www.kezer.net/netchrono.html --Daniel NP: Spock's Beard - V From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:38 pm Subject: RE: (OT) RE: [tadream] Tech questions, etc. where to go... (OT) > From: Hulshoff, Bert [mailto:bert.hulshoff@d...] > > 'cubase vst lovers' , do you know buzz, a virtual sequencer, similar to > cubase but freeware, with the possibilty to use vst instruments and > effects. > > It has alot virtual synths and effects, available at > www.buzzmachines.com , so lovers of cubase, give it a try ;-) I personally use no vst/plugins instruments at all. I find it to much of a hassle. I'm sure it is capable of great things, but if I can (and want) I buy the real thing. I just have something against doing things with a mouse, especially with modular synths software...sorry but you just can't beat the real thing how wonderful a softsynth may be. For the mellotron, I sampled each note full 7/8 seconds incl. wobbles, clicks at the end, not so good tuned notes from each other...I want it as pure as possible. If I can only find a way to have my sampler sort of rewind the sample and not always start at the beginning. :-) Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Antonio Nunes Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals Chris Owen wrote: > > (...) > There might be some nice little place on a little island that we > don't know about at all.' Finally I can have some hope for seeing TD here in Madeira Island!!! We have a nice cathedral, which was the first one built by the Portuguese outside the mainland, in the XV century. A picture can be viewed here: http://www.madeiraonweb.com/ingl/3inftur/32rotart/art1/centro/22.htm > Asked in 1988, in issue 4 of the band's fan club magazine 'The > Tangible Dream', if Edgar would ever consider playing in > cathedrals again, he answers, ever true to his maxim of never > repeating stages in the band's history,: 'No!' Apparently he changed his mind last year, as he played in a church in Bernau. Thanks Chris for posting your article. Antonio From: 'Owens, James' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:35 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tour Dates (infamous Reims concert) Morgan and Paul, According to a review in the NY Times dated January 10, 1975: 'Tangerine Dream, the German avant-garde band, and Nico, the German international pop-avant-garde chanteuse, joined for a concert last month in France [...] the real item here is that the concert took place in Reims Cathedral...' Judging from the date of the article, I'd say that 'last month' means December. The article also mentions '...the cold that prevailed in the cathedral...' which also lends support to the December date. Full text of the article can be found on Scott Plumer's website at: http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/palladium/5728/textfile/ny011075.txt James > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > Someone said that the 1974 Reims Cathedral concert in France is from > September 13, 1974. > Klaus B.'s website, your website, and James Owens websites > all nail this as > a December 13th, 1974 concert. I'd be curious to know for > sure, although > I'm pretty sure what the answer is. :) From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 6:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: Automatically set your system time - freeware. ? I seem to be getting the post in correct order? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: 'Ambient' ; 'Beyond_EM' ; 'Spacemusic' ; 'Tadream' Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:38 AM Subject: [tadream] OT: Automatically set your system time - freeware. > Hi All. Tired of seeing your posts getting lost because your system time is off by hours, days, or years? The following is an entirely painless and automatic way to avoid time embarrassment. > > There is an application for MS-Windows named Automachron. If someone finds similar client software for Macintosh, please post information to the list to help our Mac friends. > > Automachron is an SNTP (simple network time protocol) client. I downloaded it from Steeve McCauley (aka: One Guy Coding). It's freeware. There are others, but I think this is the only one that has the option to automatically run upon dialup connection. Most others are shareware, do not wait for dialup connection, and for that matter, do not even run automatically. > > For information: http://www.oneguycoding.com (the Automachron link is part way down the page). > > Note that since he can no longer support >10 GB of downloads per month (!!), One Guy Coding requests download from one of the sites listed here: > http://www.oneguycoding.com/automachron/ > > The download is only 400 K-bytes. > > How to configure Automachron > ============================ > Assuming you run Windows and have a dial-up connection to the Internet, you can set it up as follows: > - Run on startup and wait until you go on-line (wait for dialup connection option), then > - Contact the SNTP server of your choise, then > - Set the system time in your computer, then > - Quit, automatically (Close after Sync option). > > Tip - Hosts: See Hosts section, below. > > Tip - Set Options as follows: > X Quiet - run in background. > Report only - (why would anyone want this option?) > X Sync at startup - this is sync option (explained below). > X Close after sync - (explained below). > X Wait for dialup connection - if you have a dialup connection. > Broadcast client - if you are on a LAN that has a broadcast server/gateway. > X On top - so that if you reconfig, you don't have to put other windows away to find it. > Systray icon - your choise here, I don't have this (unneeded really). > X Run at startup - otherwise, it must be run manually. > > X Log - something to look at just in case there's an error (like your chosen NTP host goes bust). > Verbose - this is up to you. > > Sync at startup: This tells the program to compensate for average ping time from the NTP host. Otherwise, it doesn't. Don't use this if you are on a LAN that connects to the Internet through a gateway. > > Close after sync: This tells the program not to hang around with nothing more to do (duh!). (Hold 'CTRL' key down when launching to turn this option back off so you can see and reconfigure Automachron.) > > Hosts > ===== > A list of worldwide, Public NTP Primary (stratum 1) Time Servers is here: > http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/clock1.htm > and a list of worldwide, Public NTP Secondary (stratum 2) Time Servers is here: > http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/clock2.htm > > or search the net for the exact string: 'Internet Time Service'. > > > Just in case you don't like Automachron, there's a comprehensive list of other NTP client software here: > http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/software/software.html > > Let me know what you think of Automachron. > > Ciao -- Mark (brought to you as a public service :-) > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:09 pm Subject: RE: Re : [tadream] Tour Dates Idon't think TD played Reims Cathedral again after Dec. 74. I believe you mean Reims Opera house in Sept 75. My understanding is that TD was banned from the cathedral because of the mess. James > -----Original Message----- > TD played the Reims Cathedral > also in 1975, on > September 23rd, so maybe this explains why some people got > confused with the > concert dates. From: 'fozziebear' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 8:17 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals Antonio Nunes said ' Edgar ....apparently changed his mind last year, as he played in a church in Bernau.' Didn't they also play Gelsenkirchen some years ago? Did anyone here go? David Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31731 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Dennis Nigbur Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31732 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals braddito Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 3:24 am Subject: RE: [tadream] 220 Volt I saw the 92 tour, and while I can't recall who played what on each song, I do recall that Zlatko and Jerome did play guitar simultaneously on at least one song. However I only recall Edgar playing guitar one time (perhaps on Hamlet); and that was by himself. MJ > >Question though: in Backstreet Hero, who is playing the guitar parts? > >There's some acoustic sections that are definitely Z-man, but > there's one > part > >just after 5 minutes that sounds an awful lot like an Edgar > riff, but it's > very short > >and followed by another guitar part that sounds like it could be > Zlatko, but > not > >really. > >I wonder if that's Jerome using a little of Dad's style and a little > >Z-style? > > I don't have 220 Volt handy to check if I'm thinking of the same part you > are, but the guitar solo in Backstreet Hero is indeed played by > Jerome. You > can see him play it on the Three Phase video, which I wish they > would reissue > on DVD. > > I also wish the Froeses would pick up their guitars more often these days. > > --Daniel > NP: Shadow Gallery - Society of the Mind > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 10:39 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals The only gig in Gelsenkirchen (my native city) that I'm aware of was in 1981. I think Klaus Beschorner had a tape, but it's only about 20 minutes long, and I didn't have anything to trade at the time. Dennis On 28 Jan 2002 at 20:17, fozziebear wrote: > Antonio Nunes said ' Edgar ....apparently changed his mind last year, > as he played in a church in Bernau.' > > > Didn't they also play Gelsenkirchen some years ago? Did anyone here > go? > > David > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31732 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals braddito Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB From: 'braddito' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 11:01 am Subject: Re: TD - live in various cathedrals They certainly played at Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen 11.11.81 - about 30 minutes of White Eagle and Exit based material. If I remember correctly, it includes a short interview with Edgar (in German of course). Probably not a 'must have' recording. My personal favourite Cathedral show is Coventry 75. Regards Toby --- In tadream@y..., 'Dennis Nigbur' wrote: > The only gig in Gelsenkirchen (my native city) that I'm aware of was in > 1981. I think Klaus Beschorner had a tape, but it's only about 20 > minutes long, and I didn't have anything to trade at the time. > > Dennis > > > > Didn't they also play Gelsenkirchen some years ago? Did anyone here > > go? > > > > David > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > From: 'braddito' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:52 pm Subject: TD - live at Coventry cathedral Chris, I enjoyed reading your article, so thanks for posting it. On the subject of Coventry, the story I heard at the time was that TD didn't want the raw music to be transmitted and required Ricochet to be 'dubbed' on to the soundtrack despite the obvious lack of synchronisation. Now, I know that a reasonable sound recording exists of the concert, and I suspect that someone out there may have a decent original video recording, so can we get the two back together ? Toby > TANGERINE DREAM - LIVE IN VARIOUS CATHEDRALS > > > The most famous of the UK cathedral concerts was perhaps the one at Coventry, mainly due to the fact that the performance was filmed by Tony Palmer. It was broadcast on BBC2 on 3rd October 1976, almost a year to the day later, but strangely without the soundtrack from the actual concert. The story passed among fans was that someone at the BBC either lost, or accidentally erased, the original live soundtrack, and that what is actually heard on the film is simply a copy of 'Ricochet' dubbed onto what was filmed. Maybe that is why the introductory piano piece from 'Ricochet Part 2' is not included in the film. If TD never performed this piece at Coventry, there would be no piece of film to match up to the sound of a piano playing. Also, at the end of the film, when the audience applause can be heard, the accompanying shots of the band do not seem to be from the end of a concert. Instead of reclining in their seats, acknowledging the audience, or glancing at each other, they still seem to be concentrating on playing, even though, according to the film's soundtrack, the music had already ended. All this adds to the story that the soundtrack heard is not the one actually recorded on the night. Either way, the film was only ever broadcast on that one occasion, causing fans to this day to make do with poor quality fifth generation video copies of the now-legendary film. ] From: 'Alvaro Valdes' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 9:01 am Subject: federico-spain dear all , i am federico valdes from spain i recently lost all my files in the computer could everyone who has traded with me please send me an email with email address as well as website addy and list in case you have one ? it would be really appreciated thanks to all in advance take care federico From: Liondream@a... Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 3:40 pm Subject: Sounscapes Concert Series Ahh, it's too bad we don't have something like this in or around Chicago. Blues is cool, but not necessarily my bag. :-( << Subject: Sounscapes Concert Series Announcing a new concert series: S O U N D S C A P E S For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, Orbital Decay will appear in concert at the City of Bethlehem's IceHouse on Sand Island. Located in historic Bethlehem, the IceHouse is a wonderful venue for a concert of spacemusic. This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, starting at 8:00 pm.>>> Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31763 Re: Sounscapes Concert Series Michael A Jean Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB From: Liondream@a... Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 3:48 pm Subject: Tech questions more (OT) I have the ChronoX and other Linplug products. All excellent stuff (even daOrgan, which is a great alternative to the N-I B4). Pentagon has something kind of like the ChronoX where you can load in your own waveforms. You can get waveforms from Minimoogs, etc... has 4 osc per voice, two filters, efx., etc. I don't have Absynth because I'm on PC, but that will change in a couple months when the PC version comes out!!! << Subject: Re: Tech questions, etc. where to go... (OT) At 17:09 26.01.02 , you wrote: >Thought I'd throw this in for those who have questions on sound cards, >etc.... check out www.kvr-vst.com - very cool forum for info related to >various plug-in effects, virtual instruments, and host-related questions. A >lot of good people there, including many developers (had Eric Pershing of >Spectrasonics the other day)... etc. > *I will look into this. >Question for Martin as a kind of tangent to your M-Tron comment... I though >it might be fun to get your thoughts about some other softsynths... > >I love the PPG, of course! > *Me, too... I do heavily Eighties influenced goth rock with some bits of operatic art rock thrown in - hence the PPG (very Ultravox/Visage-ish) plus the M-Tron is perfect for me. >Have you ever played with the Pentagon from RGC Audio? IMO opinion a fabulous >sounding synth and well worth checking out if you haven't yet!!! > *No, will try to get my hands on it. Have you tried the CronoX from LinPlug? That´s a nice one, too, IMO. Or the Absynth... hard to get into ... but fabulous once you get the hang of it. >Best regards, > >Wes >aka Liondream>>> From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 5:02 pm Subject: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Hi all, With all the confusion about 'Tangerine trees and Marmalade Skies' I thought I'd through another iron into the fire: 'Tangerine, Tangerine, Living reflection from a dream; I was her love, she was my queen, And now a thousand years between.' From 'Tangerine' by Led Zepplin James Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31738 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Antonio Nunes Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31748 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Owens, James Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31753 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Rolf Elfström Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31771 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Utch Entel Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 31772 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Gustavo Jobim Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31943 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Adele Outland Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB 31945 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Jim Moore Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' 'Owens, James' wrote: > > With all the confusion about 'Tangerine trees and Marmalade Skies' I thought > I'd through another iron into the fire: > > 'Tangerine, Tangerine, > Living reflection from a dream; > I was her love, she was my queen, > And now a thousand years between.' > > From 'Tangerine' by Led Zepplin Good try, but I think this song is from 1970 :-) Antonio From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 5:48 pm Subject: Define CF shortly I need to explain to Mr. Average shortly who Chris Franke is within the space of let's say ten words. My ideas so far are: 'Inventor of the techno rhytm' 'Some electronic music guru' Can anyone think of a better one (s)? John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31741 Re: Define CF shortly scfeldman@j... Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31743 Re: Define CF shortly John Vertical Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31744 Re: Define CF shortly Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31746 Re: Define CF shortly Mark Filipak Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31756 Re: Define CF shortly quarlie@a... Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB 31757 Re: Define CF shortly Mark Filipak Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 31759 Re: Define CF shortly orangefunk_2000 Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31809 Re: Define CF shortly TheInfection Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31811 Off topic: Jean Michel Jarre on danish TV today Peter Ravn Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Mon Jan 28, 2002 7:08 pm Subject: Re : 'Christ' debut, Dali's Villa, Port Lligat, Spain [Jul 67] - The Ones? Hi all, > you have this entry for 1968 > > ? [meaning date is unknown] > Port Lligat, Spain > Music z. Einweihung der 'Christus Statue' von Salvadore Dali First of all thanks to Mark for this very enlightening info about the Genesis of TD (must be a quip in there somewhere)... Looking back over the page, I've just realised that there is actually quite a lot of German on it: http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/68-74.html Would one of the German fans be so kind as to translate the following phrases (I can understand the general sense, but there are the odd few words here and there I'm not sure of, maybe some of them are towns in Germany?): Technische Hochschule (cafeteria) 1.TD- Aufritt From: scfeldman@j... Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:10 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Define CF shortly On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:48:25 +0200 'John Vertical' writes: > I need to explain to Mr. Average shortly who Chris Franke is within > the space of let's say ten words. > My ideas so far are: > 'Inventor of the techno rhytm' > 'Some electronic music guru' > > Can anyone think of a better one (s)? member of Tangerine Dream, did the music to BABYLON 5 > John Vertical Steven Feldman From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:32 pm Subject: Cyclone I recently bought this and want now say something about it. The intro in Bent Cold Sidewalk is a strange one, but in a good way. After that the main theme is catchy, perhaps too poppy but othervise great. Jollife's vocals are funny, surreal and sort of philosophical; not exactly perfection but not far either. Here's by the way how I heard the first 4 lines on the first time: 'On this key, time will smile Youngens' love, lose your mind A desert dawn became sober A Russian sound is bound inside' Even werider than what they actually are. The middle section has some resemblance sequence-vise to the time-vise corresponding section of Force Majeure, ad it has an unique desolate feeling. The chorus gets some extra edge from the additional horn this time around, and the rest goes quite logically. Rising Runner Missed By Endless Sender (where the heck do they invent track names like that from?) has a good background but not much other highlights. Its length is just fine; any more would begin to get boring. (Side Question: is it Klaus Krüger on the drums or not? I've heard both statements..) Madrigal Meridian is nigthmarish. I don't mean it's bad, I mean it's rather like a soundtrack to a nightmare. Something you definetly shouldn't listen to while reading a thriller at midnight. The raw intro already is promising, the energetic main sequence(s) in all its metallic grindingness is great and the melodies grasp one within. The fake intro once again reminds of Force Majeure. Then the last flute-frosted sequence is incredibly sweet, I want more! The very end then feels like a gag... John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31758 Re: Cyclone orangefunk_2000 Tue 1/29/2002 3 KB 32153 Re: Cyclone Kevin Robert Ball Tue 2/12/2002 4 KB 31885 Re: Cyclone TheInfection Mon 2/4/2002 4 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Define CF shortly >member of Tangerine Dream, did the music to BABYLON 5 I meant explaining him to a person who knows nothing about electronic music... not what TD is nor anything about Babylon 5... something anyone who knows how to read will understand. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Define CF shortly musician Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Vertical' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Define CF shortly > >member of Tangerine Dream, did the music to BABYLON 5 > > I meant explaining him to a person who knows nothing about electronic > music... not what TD is nor anything about Babylon 5... something anyone who > knows how to read will understand. > > John Vertical > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals Dennis. Can you clear this up. I have the gig as: ________________________________________________________________________ Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, Germany [11 Nov 81] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ I think 'Gemeindezentrum' means 'Community Center', but I have no idea what 'Lukaskirche' means. Can you translate 'Lukaskirche'? Also, 'Gelsenkirchen' is a town, right? Was the gig in a church? Thanks for any help you can give. -- Mark Dennis Nigbur wrote: > > The only gig in Gelsenkirchen (my native city) that I'm aware of was in > 1981. I think Klaus Beschorner had a tape, but it's only about 20 > minutes long, and I didn't have anything to trade at the time. > > Dennis > > On 28 Jan 2002 at 20:17, fozziebear wrote: > > > Antonio Nunes said ' Edgar ....apparently changed his mind last year, > > as he played in a church in Bernau.' > > > > > > Didn't they also play Gelsenkirchen some years ago? Did anyone here > > go? > > > > David > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 6:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Define CF shortly Songsmith for 'Babylon 5'. At least, that's how I deal with it. I would think that the inventor of the techno rhythm would be Giogio Moroder. -- Mark John Vertical wrote: > > I need to explain to Mr. Average shortly who Chris Franke is within the > space of let's say ten words. > My ideas so far are: > 'Inventor of the techno rhytm' > 'Some electronic music guru' > > Can anyone think of a better one (s)? > > John Vertical From: scfeldman@j... Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:20 pm Subject: the inventor of the techno rhythm (was Define CF shortly) On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:59:58 -0500 Mark Filipak writes: >[. . .] I would think that the inventor of the techno rhythm >would be Giogio Moroder. -- Mark An interesting thing about that is that Moroder employed an actual drummer, Keith Forsey (who since went on to fame and fortune as the producer of Billy Idol's most successful records), whose rhythms were so rocksteady that to the untrained ear they sound(ed) like part of the overall synthetic mix of Moroder's music. -- Steven Feldman + + + + + + + 'David Bowie told me Brian Eno gave him a record of I Feel Love and said 'David . . . I heard the future!'' -- Giorgio Moroder, on the UK Channel 4 television special, 'The UK's Greatest #1 Singles,' on January 6, 2001 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:21 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' I think you're right about the date. However, it does point out how frequently the word 'tangerine was used in association with the word 'dream' in music from that time period. The point here is that Edgar could have gleaned it from practically anywhere, since it seems to be a 'catch phrase' of sorts. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:np97fa@m...] > > Good try, but I think this song is from 1970 :-) From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:26 pm Subject: Re: Re : 'Christ' debut, Dali's Villa, Port Lligat, Spain [Jul 67] -The Ones? Well, I'm not German, Paul, but I can translate some of it. (My German friends: see how I do, eh? I'm just learning...) Paul Fellows wrote: > > Hi all, > > > you have this entry for 1968 > > > > ? [meaning date is unknown] > > Port Lligat, Spain > > Music z. Einweihung der 'Christus Statue' von Salvadore Dali > > First of all thanks to Mark for this very enlightening info about the > Genesis of TD (must be a quip in there somewhere)... > > Looking back over the page, I've just realised that there is actually quite > a lot of German on it: > > http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/68-74.html > > Would one of the German fans be so kind as to translate the following > phrases (I can understand the general sense, but there are the odd few words > here and there I'm not sure of, maybe some of them are towns in Germany?): > > Technische Hochschule (cafeteria) Technical Institute (not a cafeteria!) > 1.TD- Aufritt'Deutschland Erwacht - Popmusic aus deutschen Landen' 'Germany Awakening - German Pop Music Takes Off' ('Landen' is usually 'arrive', but in aeronautics it is 'take off'... go figure!... so I think it is 'German Pop Music Takes Off'.) I don't know what 'Aufritt' means. Grugahalle 'Essener Song-Tage' Sort of slang for 'Song Days of Essen'. Grugahalle is a building as 'halle' means 'hall' but I don't know what 'Grugahalle' means. May be called after someone named 'Grug'. That's enough from me! -- Mark From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Sounscapes Concert Series -----Original Message----- From: Liondream@a... >Ahh, it's too bad we don't have something like this in or around Chicago. Blues is cool, but not necessarily my bag. > >:-( ><< Subject: Sounscapes Concert Series > Announcing a new concert series: S O U N D S C A P E S I love The Gatherings organized by Chuck van Zyl. But it is a long drive to Philly and not many people in my area make the trek like I do. Plus I want to expand the concert opportunities for electronic musicians. Vic does Ricochet Dreams in Georgia (went to the 2nd one, will go to the 3rd one) and Steve Jenkins did the Hampshire Jam in the UK last year (went to it). Since I'm out of work, I thought I'd try my hand at doing something in my area. LOTSA WORK!!! But it'll probably be worth it. So if there isn't anyone in your area who is crazier than you, good luck in starting your own concert scene! :-) Is there any spacemusic on the radio in your area? Cheers, Bill Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31764 Re: Sounscapes Concert Series Michael A Jean Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 7:44 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals Aha! I'm going to partially answer my own question... Mark Filipak wrote: > > Dennis. Can you clear this up. I have the gig as: > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, Germany > [11 Nov 81] - EF+CF+JS > ________________________________________________________________________ > > I think 'Gemeindezentrum' means 'Community Center', but I have no idea what 'Lukaskirche' means. Can you translate 'Lukaskirche'? 'Kirche' is 'Church' of course. So it is a 'Church Community Center'. Still don't know what the 'Lukas' part of 'Lukaskirche' means, though. -- Mark > Also, 'Gelsenkirchen' is a town, right? Of course it is Mark (ya dumb sod!). Dennis said it is his native city. -- Mark > Was the gig in a church? > > Thanks for any help you can give. -- Mark > > Dennis Nigbur wrote: > > > > The only gig in Gelsenkirchen (my native city) that I'm aware of was in > > 1981. I think Klaus Beschorner had a tape, but it's only about 20 > > minutes long, and I didn't have anything to trade at the time. > > > > Dennis > > > > On 28 Jan 2002 at 20:17, fozziebear wrote: > > > > > Antonio Nunes said ' Edgar ....apparently changed his mind last year, > > > as he played in a church in Bernau.' > > > > > > > > > Didn't they also play Gelsenkirchen some years ago? Did anyone here > > > go? > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31752 Re: TD - live in various cathedrals Rolf Elfström Tue 1/29/2002 2 KB From: Rolf Elfström Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 8:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals >Still don't know what the 'Lukas' part of 'Lukaskirche' means, though. -- Mark Well, at least in Swedish* the four apostels credited with their 'own' gospel in the Bible are called; Markus, Lukas, Matteus, Johannes. (That's Mark, Luke, Mathew and John for the anglo-speaking, I think(?)) Figured it out yet? ;) *rather close to German, during the ages almost 2/3 of our 'native' language are words adopted from the German language. Rolf BTW; Mark, thanks for sending me the chronology, I'll get back to you with my comments later... From: Rolf Elfström Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 8:24 pm Subject: RE: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' >I think you're right about the date. >However, it does point out how frequently the word >'tangerine was used in association with the word 'dream' >in music from that time period. The point here is that >Edgar could have gleaned it from practically anywhere, >since it seems to be a 'catch phrase' of sorts. > >James I've heard (more than once) that the name 'Tangerine Dream' was attributed to a LSD-trip during the 'flower power'-era. I don't know how much truth there is in this 'rumor' but it could explain why it would be a catch phase about that time. Rolf Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31771 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Utch Entel Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 31772 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Gustavo Jobim Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 8:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals Well then. I suppose that ________________________________________________________________________ Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, Germany [11 Nov 81] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ is Saint Luke's Church Community Center in Gelsenkirchen, Germany. Sounds like a church annex (a building near the church and owned by the church, but not the actual church itself). Can anyone in or near Gelsenkirchen confirm this? -- Dennis? -- Mark Rolf Elfström wrote: > > >Still don't know what the 'Lukas' part of 'Lukaskirche' means, though. -- Mark > > Well, at least in Swedish* the four apostels credited with their > 'own' gospel in the Bible are called; Markus, Lukas, Matteus, Johannes. > (That's Mark, Luke, Mathew and John for the anglo-speaking, I think(?)) > Figured it out yet? ;) > > *rather close to German, during the ages almost 2/3 of our 'native' > language are words adopted from the German language. > > Rolf > > BTW; Mark, thanks for sending me the chronology, I'll get back to > you with my comments later... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: Olav Neander Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 8:55 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Re : 'Christ' debut, Dali's Villa, Port Lligat, Spain [Jul 67] -The Ones? Mark Filipak wrote: >(My German friends: see how I do, eh? I'm just learning...) > Not bad :-) >>1.TD- Aufritt'Deutschland Erwacht - Popmusic aus deutschen Landen' >> > >'Germany Awakening - German Pop Music Takes Off' >('Landen' is usually 'arrive', but in aeronautics it is 'take off'... go figure!... so I think it is 'German Pop Music Takes Off'.) > No, it means 'from german countries', 'Landen' is unusual in common speech, but it has the same origin as 'land'... > I don't know what 'Aufritt' means. > Truly misspelled 'Auftritt' and it means gig'. Ok, maybe that's a supplement to your great translation... BTW, I'm glad that I finally found this mailing list, I've been a TD fan since 1976, and Ricochet is still my favourite album... Best wishes, Olav -- Electronic Dreamscapes from Norway - http://www.mp3.com/autopoiesis - ICQ# 9622825 From: quarlie@a... Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 9:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Define CF shortly In a message dated 1/29/02 12:49:37 PM, johnvertical@h... writes: >I need to explain to Mr. Average shortly who Chris Franke is within the >space of let's say ten words. >My ideas so far are: >'Inventor of the techno rhytm' Hmm... no. I would probably say he's 'an influential synthesist who helped to pioneer the use of repeating sequences of notes in electronic music as simultaneously melodic and rhythmic, and is now more of an orchestral/soundtrack composer.' That's way more than ten words, though. --Daniel NP: Page and Plant - No Quarter From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 10:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Define CF shortly For Mr. Average, eh? How about this: Christoph Franke: A drummer who bought a Moog sythesizer from Mick Jagger. That just about says it all, doesn't it? ;-) -- Mark John Vertical wrote: > > I need to explain to Mr. Average shortly who Chris Franke is within the > space of let's say ten words. > My ideas so far are: > 'Inventor of the techno rhytm' > 'Some electronic music guru' > > Can anyone think of a better one (s)? > > John Vertical > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 11:54 pm Subject: Re: Cyclone Cyclone is a very special LP for me as it marked my first purchase of a TD album way back in 84. Just seeing the words Oberheim and sequencers for me meant that it was something else I could grab onto other than the Jarres and Vangelis materials that I knew about at the time. Cyclone gets such a bad rap in my opinion. The vocals are different to say the least but the musicianship is far and away above anything I've heard from TD. When i listen to this LP, I feel a mixture of feelings, lots of different images esp on Madrigal Meridian which has some great Solina Ensemble all over it...wish my own Solina worked!! Joliffe is an incredible flute player, horn player etc etc... I could listen to his playing for the rest of my life. I wouldn't be surprised if the TD old guard were a bit miffed that this LP sounded like it was all Joliffe. I can't believe that Edgar feels it shouldn't have been released (as I've read). This LP was pivotal in my development as a musician and a music lover. It ranks up there as my fav TD LP along with Encore, the textures of the sound are incredible with violin sounds and massed horns.. very medieval sounding in places.. and very English sounding too. The drums/sequencer combination also made it a much more dynamic affair than other LPs. Wish there was more like this about.. Peace Orangefunk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32153 Re: Cyclone Kevin Robert Ball Tue 2/12/2002 4 KB From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:26 am Subject: Re: Define CF shortly > space of let's say ten words. > My ideas so far are: > 'Inventor of the techno rhytm' > 'Some electronic music guru' > I wouldn't necessarily say he was the inventor of the techno rhythm in the sense of drum beats (there were many bands utilising drum boxes even back in 72) , but yes definitely in terms of pulsating filter sequencer patterns. Its hard to say who did what in TD as all I have *seen* were the Poland concerts and later where it didn't seem like anyone was playing that much live. The early years seemed to be totally different... I'm amazed at the variety of music on the bootlegs I've heard.. even Edgars piano playing is far far better than I would have thought from listening to the official recordings. From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:31 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] current poll Not if I have to accept cookies. Sorry. My vote would have gone to Rare Visions, but as it is in no way in the running it doesn't matter anyway. 8-) Dell (to vote please go to >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/surveys?id=851324) As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: quarlie@a... Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:30 am Subject: Re: Edgar's piano playing (was 'Define CF shortly') In a message dated 1/29/02 7:31:24 PM, orangefunk_2000@y... writes: >The early years seemed to be totally different... I'm amazed at the >variety of music on the bootlegs I've heard.. even Edgars piano >playing is far far better than I would have thought from listening to >the official recordings. There's a pretty impressive piano solo at the end of 'Invisible Limits' from Stratosfear. The liner notes seem to say it's Edgar. I wonder why he doesn't seem to play keyboard solos anymore. --Daniel NP: Baumann - Haunted Heights Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31762 Re: Edgar's piano playing (was 'Define CF shortly orangefunk_2000 Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:38 am Subject: Re: Edgar's piano playing (was 'Define CF shortly') > There's a pretty impressive piano solo at the end of 'Invisible Limits' from > Stratosfear. The liner notes seem to say it's Edgar. > > I wonder why he doesn't seem to play keyboard solos anymore. Yeah thats true, but on the 76 bootlegs he gets into a much more atonal Joachim Kuhn/Cecil Taylor thing at times.. I was really surprised. Very very passionate,, From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:41 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Sounscapes Concert Series And don't forget the Gatherings in Philly... This seasons schedule includes Robert Rich, Erik Wollo, and Steve Roach... It could be worth the drive...even from Chicago... MJ (a former Chicagoan who misses hearing 'real' blues) > -----Original Message----- > From: Liondream@a... [mailto:Liondream@a...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:41 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Sounscapes Concert Series > > > Ahh, it's too bad we don't have something like this in or around > Chicago. Blues is cool, but not necessarily my bag. > > :-( > > > << Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:47:37 -0500 > From: 'Bill Fox' > Subject: Sounscapes Concert Series > > Announcing a new concert series: S O U N D S C A P E S > > For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, > Orbital Decay will > appear in concert at the City of Bethlehem's IceHouse on Sand Island. > Located > in historic Bethlehem, the IceHouse is a wonderful venue for a concert of > spacemusic. This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, > starting > at 8:00 pm.>>> > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:48 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Sounscapes Concert Series The only regular performance of any space music in Chicago was Bil Vermette's regular appearances at various Border's locations... It might be nice to schedule him for a future date in Philly... MJ (A fan of Bil's since 1984) > > So if there isn't anyone in your area who is crazier than you, > good luck in > starting your own concert scene! :-) Is there any spacemusic on > the radio in > your area? > > Cheers, > > Bill > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 8:18 am Subject: translations Mark's last theory about Gelsenkirchen was entirely correct. >1.TD- Auf_t_ritt'Deutschland Erwacht - Popmusic aus deutschen Landen' Olav came very close, but it's not literally translateable, it's a pun. 'Aus deutschen Landen frisch auf den Tisch' was the omnipresent advertisement slogan for german-produced vegetables and meat at the time. regards klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31767 Re: translations Mark Filipak Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB From: 'brissiecol' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:37 am Subject: Tree sign-up Folks - can someone add me to the tree (I'm having trouble getting my details on tadream/tree as 61 browser windows pop-up every time I do it). My details are: Colin Anderson Australia Branch 3 copies Redbook Thanks From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 am Subject: Re: [tadream] translations Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > Mark's last theory about Gelsenkirchen was entirely correct. > > >1.TD- Auf_t_ritt'Deutschland Erwacht - Popmusic aus deutschen Landen' > > Olav came very close, but it's not literally translateable, > it's a pun. 'Aus deutschen Landen frisch auf den Tisch' was > the omnipresent advertisement slogan for german-produced vegetables > and meat at the time. Thanks Klaus! This reminds me of a (forgotten) album containing 'Fresh Fruit'. So how's this for the chronology entry: ________________________________________________________________________ 'Deutschland Erwacht - Popmusic aus deutschen Landen', -venue?- [26 Sep 68] - EF+KH+VH+SJ _______ __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Translation is literally: 'Germany Awakening - Pop Music from German lands', but it is really a pun roughly meaning: 'Germany Awakening - German Pop Music from the Country, Fresh to the Table' bringing to mind 'Aus deutschen Landen frisch auf den Tisch', a ubiquitous 60's advertising slogan promoting German farm produce. Also: Amon Düül and Guru Guru. ________________________________________________________________________ (This is fun.) -- Mark (wierd) From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:45 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals I'm not living in Gelsenkirchen any more and I don't know where the Lukaskirche is (Gelsenkirchen is a big place). A Gemeindezentrum could be either a meeting house attached to the church (as your interpretation correctly suggests) or it could even be a church building that doesn't look like a church. As an explanation, it has to be pointed out that Gelsenkirchen is a fairly big and very poor city. Many of the church buildings in the younger districts of town were built on a minimum budget and don't look anything like churches. The church I used to go to was an angular, red-brick building with no naves, pews, stained glass windows or any of the things normally associated with church architecture, and it had the congregation room on the first floor with a slightly raised wooden table as an altar and some chairs for the congregation. Because these buildings are often multifunctional and not just used for services but also for church groups, community meetings et cetera, they are often called Gemeindezentrum rather than church. When I'm next in Gelsenkirchen, I'll try to find out for you where this building is. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: 29 January 2002 20:42 Subject: Re: [tadream] TD - live in various cathedrals > Well then. I suppose that > ________________________________________________________________________ > Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, Germany > [11 Nov 81] - EF+CF+JS > ________________________________________________________________________ > > is Saint Luke's Church Community Center in Gelsenkirchen, Germany. Sounds like a church annex (a building near the church and owned by the church, but not the actual church itself). > > Can anyone in or near Gelsenkirchen confirm this? -- Dennis? > > -- Mark > > Rolf Elfström wrote: > > > > >Still don't know what the 'Lukas' part of 'Lukaskirche' means, though. -- Mark > > > > Well, at least in Swedish* the four apostels credited with their > > 'own' gospel in the Bible are called; Markus, Lukas, Matteus, Johannes. > > (That's Mark, Luke, Mathew and John for the anglo-speaking, I think(?)) > > Figured it out yet? ;) > > > > *rather close to German, during the ages almost 2/3 of our 'native' > > language are words adopted from the German language. > > > > Rolf > > > > BTW; Mark, thanks for sending me the chronology, I'll get back to > > you with my comments later... > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:50 pm Subject: Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, 11 Nov 81 Thanks for your comprehensive explanation, Dennis (re: TD - live in various cathedrals). Dennis Nigbur wrote: > When I'm next in Gelsenkirchen, I'll try to find out for you where this building is. Where it is, is not really important. What it is, is what I'm interested in. About the gig ============= LOOK WHAT I FOUND... 11.11.81 GELSENKIRCHEN-HASSEL 'MUSIK THEATER' (IM GEMEINDEZENTRUM LUKASKIRCHE) I found it here: http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/Ustalone_koncerty_TD/ustalone_koncerty_td.html Does anyone know anything about this 'MUSIK THEATER'? Rather than being a church, might Lukaskirche be a neighborhood or district, instead? About Hassel ============ There are 12 towns in Germany named Hassel (the numbers are the order that they come up in a VectorGlobe search). In Niedersachsen: #1 - 14 km NNW of Oldenburg. #3 - 43 km E of Bremen. #4 - 24 km SSW of Bremen. #7 - 42 km S of Bremen. #11 - 40 km SE of Bremen. #6 - 14 km NNW of Celle. In Sachsen-Anhalt: #9 - 5 km ENE of Stendal. #2 - 50 km S of Halle. In Mordrhein-Westfalen: #5 - 9 km N of Gelsenkirchen. #10 - 16 km NNE of Dortmund. #12 - 22 km SSW of Essen. In Saarland: #8 - 13 km ENE of Saarbrücken. Number 5 appears to be only 9 km north of Gelsenkirchen, so I can well imagine it would be called Gelsenkirchen-Hassel, however, VectorGlobe can't seem to decide whether that town is named Hassel or Buer, so I'm not sure. Ah, well. I can't do anything more from here in the USA. Tasks ===== Anyone with a good German road map should be able to fairly easily determine whether all of these 12 different Hassels actually exist, especially #5. Anyone near Essen should be able to find out whether Lukaskirche is actually a district. VectorGlobe doesn't have anything on 'Lukaskirche'. Will you help? Thanks -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31778 Re: Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, 1 Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/30/2002 5 KB 31779 Re: Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, 1 Joe Shoults Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm Subject: 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' The last 2 entries on this page: http://www.ctio.noao.edu/~claudio/td/td.html are 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder'. Anyone know what these are? Ciao & Thanks -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31773 Re: 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' Matthew Sawyer Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 31774 Re: 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' Mark Filipak Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31775 Re: 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 31776 Re: 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' Matthew Sawyer Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 31785 Re: 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' John Marchington Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB From: 'Utch Entel' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:33 pm Subject: Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Hi, Rolf! >I've heard (more than once) that the name 'Tangerine Dream' >was attributed to a LSD-trip during the 'flower power'-era. >I don't know how much truth there is in this 'rumor' but it >could explain why it would be a catch phase about that time. I've always toyed with the idea that the name 'Tangerine Dream' was in some way (more or less) influenced by LSD. Back in the 60's and 70's there was an LSD trip called 'Orange L'. Although I've never tried 'Orange L', I've heard from several people who have that it was a particularly 'fun' trip... This could possibly be an explanation as to why EF has never explained how Tangerine Dream got its name... It would be great if EF were to answer this mystery (among other mysteries)... ...Utch --------------- Tear and crumple after reading --------------- I don't mind what language an opera is sung in so long as it is a language I don't understand. --Sir Edward Appleton Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31772 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Gustavo Jobim Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:20 pm Subject: Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' I don't really care about the origin of the name 'tangerine dream'. I just think it's an incredibly creative name. It manages to be quite absurd without exaggerating. > I've always toyed with the idea that the name 'Tangerine Dream' was in > some way (more or less) influenced by LSD. Back in the 60's and 70's > there was an LSD trip called 'Orange L'. Although I've never tried > 'Orange L', I've heard from several people who have that it was a > particularly 'fun' trip... > > This could possibly be an explanation as to why EF has never explained > how Tangerine Dream got its name... > > It would be great if EF were to answer this mystery (among other > mysteries)... > > ...Utch From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 2:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' From: 'Mark Filipak' > The last 2 entries on this page: > > http://www.ctio.noao.edu/~claudio/td/td.html > > are 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder'. > > Anyone know what these are? IIRC, Twilight Folder would have contained rare material from 1984-2000 and Star Trooper would have been TD playing classical pieces. Unfortunately both were scrapped late last year. Maff From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' Matthew Sawyer wrote: > From: 'Mark Filipak' > > The last 2 entries on this page: > > > > http://www.ctio.noao.edu/~claudio/td/td.html > > > > are 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder'. > > > > Anyone know what these are? > > IIRC, Twilight Folder would have contained rare material from 1984-2000 and > Star Trooper would have been TD playing classical pieces. Unfortunately both > were scrapped late last year. If you mean that these are official releases that didn't happen, Claudio has pictures of the CD inserts. Check it out. I can't conceive of how there could be pictures unless these CDs actually came out. But maybe so. Just thought I'd ask. -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31775 Re: 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB From: TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' At 10:53 30.01.02 , you wrote: >Matthew Sawyer wrote: >> From: 'Mark Filipak' >> > The last 2 entries on this page: >> > >> > http://www.ctio.noao.edu/~claudio/td/td.html >> > >> > are 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder'. >> > >> > Anyone know what these are? >> >> IIRC, Twilight Folder would have contained rare material from 1984-2000 and >> Star Trooper would have been TD playing classical pieces. Unfortunately both >> were scrapped late last year. > >If you mean that these are official releases that didn't happen, Claudio has pictures of the CD inserts. Check it out. I can't conceive of how there could be pictures unless these CDs actually came out. But maybe so. Just thought I'd ask. -- Mark > Dear Mark, the explanation is rather simple - Edgar had the concept for the releases already finished and the cover artwork done but then they were scrapped because 'Inferno' took all the group´s time. Hope this helps to avoid misunderstandings or confusion. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 3:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' From: 'Mark Filipak' > If you mean that these are official releases that didn't happen, > Claudio has pictures of the CD inserts. Check it out. I can't conceive > of how there could be pictures unless these CDs actually came > out. But maybe so. Just thought I'd ask. -- Mark Those cover images were shown on the TDI website for a few months in the 'coming soon' section before they were eventually deleted. Maff From: 'michaeljean@e...' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 5:45 pm Subject: RE: Re: [tadream] Star Trooper and Twilight Folder Yes I recall seeing those images on the TDI site in the coming soon section... My guess is that some or all of Twilight Folder ended up as the 'new' tracks on Eye Box, and fragments of Star Trooper may have ended up on Ambient Monkeys and Hollywood Years... I would have liked to hear the rest... I have heard some music recorded before the Warsaw show in August. Does anyone know if these are TD compositions (sort of a Ambient Monkeys 2), or just assorted sounds? MJ From: 'Mark Filipak' > If you mean that these are official releases that didn't happen, > Claudio has pictures of the CD inserts. Check it out. I can't conceive > of how there could be pictures unless these CDs actually came > out. But maybe so. Just thought I'd ask. -- Mark Those cover images were shown on the TDI website for a few months in the 'coming soon' section before they were eventually deleted. Maff ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 7:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, 11 Nov 81 Your resourcefulness amazes me, Mark! This clears it all up. Hassel is an area that has traditionally belonged to the town of Buer, which was in turn joined to Gelsenkirchen many years ago. Consequently, both Buer and Hassel are accurate descriptions of where the venue is located. Buer is the northern district of Gelsenkirchen, and I used to go to school there. Hassel, in turn, is - if memory serves - the northernmost part of Buer. I've only ever been there on a handful of occasions, though. I'm pretty sure that Lukaskirche refers to a church rather than a sub- district of a sub-district of a sub-district of a city...my aunt works in a church office, so I'm sure I can find out for you. 'Musiktheater' is more difficult to explain. Gelsenkirchen prides itself in an institution called the 'Musiktheater', a theatre in the south part of town that specialises in opera and other musical forms of drama. What this has to do with a concert in a church building at the opposite end of town, I just can't imagine. Maybe it's a pun on music and theatre, as they are combined in the music on display. But this is just speculation. Dennis On 30 Jan 2002 at 8:50, Mark Filipak wrote: > Thanks for your comprehensive explanation, Dennis (re: TD - live in > various cathedrals). > > Dennis Nigbur wrote: > > When I'm next in Gelsenkirchen, I'll try to find out for you where > > this building is. > > Where it is, is not really important. What it is, is what I'm > interested in. > > > About the gig > ============= > LOOK WHAT I FOUND... > > 11.11.81 GELSENKIRCHEN-HASSEL 'MUSIK THEATER' (IM GEMEINDEZENTRUM > LUKASKIRCHE) > > I found it here: > http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/Ustalone_koncerty_TD/ustalone_koncerty > _td.html > > Does anyone know anything about this 'MUSIK THEATER'? Rather than > being a church, might Lukaskirche be a neighborhood or district, > instead? > > > About Hassel > ============ > There are 12 towns in Germany named Hassel (the numbers are the order > that they come up in a VectorGlobe search). > > In Niedersachsen: > #1 - 14 km NNW of Oldenburg. > #3 - 43 km E of Bremen. > #4 - 24 km SSW of Bremen. > #7 - 42 km S of Bremen. > #11 - 40 km SE of Bremen. > #6 - 14 km NNW of Celle. > > In Sachsen-Anhalt: > #9 - 5 km ENE of Stendal. > #2 - 50 km S of Halle. > > In Mordrhein-Westfalen: > #5 - 9 km N of Gelsenkirchen. > #10 - 16 km NNE of Dortmund. > #12 - 22 km SSW of Essen. > > In Saarland: > #8 - 13 km ENE of Saarbrücken. > > Number 5 appears to be only 9 km north of Gelsenkirchen, so I can well > imagine it would be called Gelsenkirchen-Hassel, however, VectorGlobe > can't seem to decide whether that town is named Hassel or Buer, so I'm > not sure. > > Ah, well. I can't do anything more from here in the USA. > > > Tasks > ===== > Anyone with a good German road map should be able to fairly easily > determine whether all of these 12 different Hassels actually exist, > especially #5. > > Anyone near Essen should be able to find out whether Lukaskirche is > actually a district. VectorGlobe doesn't have anything on > 'Lukaskirche'. > > Will you help? > > Thanks -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 8:16 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Gelsenkirchen, 11 Nov 81 sounds like more Hassel than it's worth. > -----Original Message----- > About Hassel > ============ > There are 12 towns in Germany named Hassel (the numbers are > the order that they come up in a VectorGlobe search). > however, VectorGlobe can't seem to decide whether that town > is named Hassel or Buer, so I'm not sure. > Ah, well. I can't do anything more from here in the USA. From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 8:12 pm Subject: Buer-Hassel >called Gelsenkirchen-Hassel, however, VectorGlobe can't seem to decide >whether that town is named Hassel or Buer, so I'm not sure. Man, I've known anal types, but does the pain not get too much to bear at times ? ;-) (No need for outrage on anybody's part xcept Mark's, we know each other!) Hassel is a part of Buer, itself an administrative subsection of Gelsenkirchen. The so-called 'Gemeindereform' in Germany in the early 70s centralized the communal ends of government a lot. If you live in Hassel, and want to register your newly bought car, you go to Buer, where an outpost of the Gelsenkirchen city (and 'county' - Land/Stadtkreis) authorities will issue you a GE - xxx nn license plate. For the soccer fans: Schalke is also a subsection of Gelsenkirchen. Where's The Radio City Music Hall, exactly ? Lower East Side ? Is that really a part of New York City... etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseam.... cheers, klaus ;-) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31783 Re: Buer-Hassel Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:14 pm Subject: Gelsenkirchen-Hassel; Buer-Hassel; no hassle at all! :-) Dennis Nigbur wrote: > > This clears it all up. Hassel is an area that has traditionally belonged to > the town of Buer, which was in turn joined to Gelsenkirchen many years > ago. Consequently, both Buer and Hassel are accurate descriptions of > where the venue is located. Buer is the northern district of > Gelsenkirchen, and I used to go to school there. Hassel, in turn, is - if > memory serves - the northernmost part of Buer. I've only ever been > there on a handful of occasions, though. Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > Hassel is a part of Buer, itself an administrative subsection > of Gelsenkirchen. The so-called 'Gemeindereform' in Germany in the > early 70s centralized the communal ends of government a lot. Hey folks! This is what is so great about the net. An age old question has almost been cleared up in one day! And when Dennis talks with his aunt, it *will* all be cleared up. Dennis Nigbur wrote: > > Your resourcefulness amazes me, Mark! Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > Man, I've known anal types, but does the pain not get too much > to bear at times ? ;-) ~LOL~ Only when I laugh too hard, Klaus. (Ooops! Is there a proctologist in the house?) Ciao -- Mark 'Sherlock' Filipak (pleased as punch! With thanks to Dennis and Klaus!) PS: BTW, I wrote to the fellow in Poland who posted '11.11.81 GELSENKIRCHEN-HASSEL 'MUSIK THEATER' (IM GEMEINDEZENTRUM LUKASKIRCHE)' on his web page and he doesn't have a clue. He just copied someone else's data. -- M. From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:21 pm Subject: Chronology Mark, you seem to have a heck of a grasp on notes about various concert venues and dates. I have been correlating the tome of knowledge at Paul Fellows website, along with James Owens and Klaus Beschorner's bootlegography. I know this is a little strange as I am hardly the well-versed TD fan and maybe not the best person for this job, but I am really hoping to set up a website that melds all the interesting information about each and every venue and information about the recordings that exist of such venues. As I've said in other posts, virtually all of the CD and vinyl bootlegs seem to be being replaced rapidly with more complete, lower-generation recordings of entire concerts (instead of excerpts, as the vinyl and CDs often were) and it's getting confusing for collectors to know what they're getting. I've got the desire and motivation to start building some kind of database that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see all relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a list of the most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to the right venue. I know it sounds like a monstrosity, but I'd like to at least try. I know that quite a few of these concerts will never see the light of day in their best possible (first generation, equalized and pitch-adjusted) form, but it would be nice to document what IS available. Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description and time index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder to deal with any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and Poland concerts!). Is there a desire for this? Am I being redundant? Should I be just trying to write and research addenda to existing websites? -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31784 Re: Chronology vic rek Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31786 Re: Chronology Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31788 Re: Chronology tei waz Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31796 Re: Chronology quarlie@a... Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31798 Re: Chronology Mark Filipak Wed 1/30/2002 2 KB 31852 Chronology Scott Fri 2/1/2002 2 KB From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Buer-Hassel You know a lot about Schalke country, Klaus. Where do you live? Dennis On 30 Jan 2002 at 21:12, Klaus Beschorner wrote: > >called Gelsenkirchen-Hassel, however, VectorGlobe can't seem to > decide >whether that town is named Hassel or Buer, so I'm not sure. > > > Man, I've known anal types, but does the pain not get too much > to bear at times ? ;-) > > (No need for outrage on anybody's part xcept Mark's, we know each > other!) > > Hassel is a part of Buer, itself an administrative subsection > of Gelsenkirchen. The so-called 'Gemeindereform' in Germany in the > early 70s centralized the communal ends of government a lot. > > If you live in Hassel, and want to register your newly bought car, you > go to Buer, where an outpost of the Gelsenkirchen city (and 'county' - > Land/Stadtkreis) authorities will issue you a GE - xxx nn license > plate. For the soccer fans: Schalke is also a subsection of > Gelsenkirchen. > > Where's The Radio City Music Hall, exactly ? Lower East Side ? > Is that really a part of New York City... etc etc ad infinitum ad > nauseam.... > > cheers, > klaus ;-) > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'vic rek' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Chronology I believe if any fan has the motivation to compile information about Tangerine Dream, then this is a very worthwhile effort. I would enjoy having access to just such a site that Morgan proposes. > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some kind of database > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see all > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a list of the > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to the right venue. From: 'John Marchington' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' Weren't they the TDI albums that were deleted before they were even released? ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: 'Tadream' Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:57 AM Subject: [tadream] 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder' > The last 2 entries on this page: > > http://www.ctio.noao.edu/~claudio/td/td.html > > are 'Star Trooper' and 'Twilight Folder'. > > Anyone know what these are? > > Ciao & Thanks -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Chronology What I would like to do is take all the facts that can be gathered, place into a sql database then pop it onto one of my web servers that has mysql running for access via web search / query Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:12 pm Subject: where's raid city... >Where's The Radio City Music Hall, exactly ? Lower East Side ? Is that really a part of New York City... etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseam....< being a geographically ignorant american I couldn't say but then at least I'm not confused by the borders of Konstanz--that is to say no matter how much bavarians think other wise--bavaria is not a country even if www.lake-constance.com thinks it is --T _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:24 pm Subject: re: Chronology ok, there's at least one correction I'd like to clear up the coach house is in san juan capistrano california (where the swallows return to the mission sjc every year) not san juan,usa as in pfellows website for the 1992 concert or was it 1988? anyway, their web addy is thecoachhouse.com oh and paul, yes I still haven't sent you a copy of my ticket stub for the music in the movies TD concert from November 1986.... ^^^^ --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:56 pm Subject: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology what you describe has been a pipe dream of mine for a while for the tadream.net site. basically, all I really need is a good database design, and then I can build the master/detail pages from there. In other words: * what categories are we trying to define? --> * what tables should be included in the db? * what fields in those tables? but also include all albums - even the ones TD won't include on their site - and boots and concerts and profiles of members and all that. does anyone know the structure of deadbase? OH- by the way, oh, nevermind; I'll send a separate post > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] ... > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some > kind of database > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see all > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a > list of the > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to > the right venue.... > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description > and time > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder > to deal with > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and > Poland concerts!). > > Is there a desire for this? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31792 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Mark Filipak Wed 1/30/2002 4 KB 31795 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/30/2002 5 KB 31797 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Mark Filipak Wed 1/30/2002 5 KB 31799 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/30/2002 6 KB 31818 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Michael Fox Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31800 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Mark Filipak Wed 1/30/2002 7 KB 31801 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/31/2002 9 KB 31803 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Mark Filipak Thu 1/31/2002 3 KB 31804 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/31/2002 4 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Chronology -- sample (long post) Morgan Feldon wrote: > > Mark, you seem to have a heck of a grasp on notes about various concert > venues and dates. -snip- > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description and time > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder to deal with > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and Poland concerts!). You mean, like the two entries below? First, I want to make a pitch. There are boot lists and there are soundtrack lists and there are album lists, but breaking up TD's history like that didn't give me the 'big picture'. I want to know what the band was doing every day. So I decided to start my chronology. It is now 387 k-bytes of pure text. It needs updating, and for that I'd appreciate help. I have found this chronology to be extremely insightful. When you get the 'big picture', some mysteries solve themselves. The principles behind the chronology are these: 1 - Email friendly: 74 characters per line and plain text. 2 - Contains all of the band's activities, including sessions, shows, broadcasts, interviews, and appearances -- in short, everything the band did as a unit -- in date order. 3 - Contains notes to help interpret what the band members thought and how they felt. 4 - A consistent format so that a PERL script or a Snobol or Spitbol (my language of choise) or some other string processing program can be written to utilize it as a database. 5 - HUMAN READABLE, for folks who just want to see it and search it with a word processor. 6 - Extremely compact. I started this in 1966, when I first joined the list when it was hosted by the University of Wisconsin, Parkside campus (remember that?). Of course, I raided everyone else's lists, and I give credit at the beginning of mine. Unfortunately, my 2 year break set back my plans a bit. FOR THE DOMINION SHOW: (I'm patiently waiting to hear a copy of 'The Real 'Logos' Concert, Dominion Theatre, London 06.11.82' before I update this information.) ________________________________________________________________________ Dominion Theatre, London [early evening, 6 Nov 82] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ Dominion Theatre, London [late evening, 6 Nov 82] - EF+CF+JS _______ __/ Set 1 \_______________________ 9 Logos-Velvet [4:56] (intro/atmosphere) [1:05] (bridge 9-10) [2:17] 1 Hijack [3:24] 10 Logos-Red [6:19] (bridge 1-2) [0:58] ('Wake up!') 2 Rush of Joy [5:00] 11 Logos-Blue [5:28] (bridge 2-3) [1:36] (bridge 11-12) [4:55] 3 Desert Run [4:15] 12 Logos 12 [4:14] (bridge 3-4) [0:36] (bridge 12-13) [0:27] 4 Renewed Purpose [3:36] 13 Logos 13 [6:51] 5 Dreamscape [5:10] (bridge 13-14) [0:05] (bridge 5-6) [1:00] 14 Logos 14 [2:32] 6 Choronzon [8:08] _________ 7 Tangent [3:28] __/ Encores \_____________________ _______ 15 Midnight in Tula [3:45] __/ Set 2 \_______________________ 16 White Eagle [4:52] 8 Mojave Plan [10:00] 17 Dominion [5:44] (bridge 8-9) [3:02] _______ __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Segs 9-11 identified on 'Tangents'. Segs 1-5 and 12-14 given unofficial names to aid cross referencing. Seg 1 from 'The Soldier'. Seg 4 from 'The Keep'. Except for the jump from 1 to 9 (i.e., bridge 1-2 was deftly crossfaded beginning at 5:27 of set 1 to join with bridge 8-9 at 11:45 of set 2), the 'Logos' media tracks are exactly as played at the concert. __________________ __/ Recordings - AAA \________________________________________________ MC - Segs ? [1982] (audience fantape) LP-2 - Segs ? as 'Logos' [1982] Virgin (GB) V 2257 (test record; different mix!) LP-2 - Segs 1+9-11/12-14,17 (in 3 tracks) as LOGOS [1982] Virgin (GB) V 2257 [1983] Virgin/Victor (JP) [1982] Virgin/RTC (NZ) V 2257 VIL 6029 [1982] Virgin/Ariola (ES) [1983] Virgin/General Music I-205 230 (IL) BAN 2257 [1982] Virgin/Edison (PT) [1983] Virgin (MX) LA 532 612 605 [1983,1988] Virgin (DE) [1982] Virgin (CA) VL 3282 205 230-270 [1983] Virgin (AU) V 2257 [1986] Virgin (GB) OVED 167 [1983] Virgin (DE) 205 230-320 MC - Segs 1+9-11/12-14,17 (in 3 tracks) as 'Logos' [1982] Virgin (GB) TCV 2257 [1983] Virgin (AU) VC 2257 [1982] Virgin/Ariola (ES) [1983] Virgin (DE) 405 230-352 D-405 230 [1983] Virgin (MX) CS 532 [1982] Virgin (CA) VL4 3282 [1986] Virgin (GB) OVEDC 167 __________________ __/ Recordings - AAD \________________________________________________ CD - Segs 1+9-11,12-14,17 (in 3 tracks) as 'Logos' Track index points (format is seg=track+mm:ss) 1=1[01:05] 10=1[13:57] 12=2[04:55] 14=2[16:32] 9=1[06:44] 11=1[20:16] 13=2[09:36] 17=3[00:00] [1984] Virgin (FR,GB) CDV 2257 [1984] Virgin (JP) VDP-65 [1984] Virgin (DE) 610 381-225 CDR - Seg 4 (preceeded by ? and followed by ?) as 'Logotypes' [19??] -label?- (??) -catalog#?- (boot) __________________ __/ Recordings - ADD \________________________________________________ CD - Segs 1+9-14,17 (in 2 tracks) as 'Logos' Track index points (format is seg=track+mm:ss) 1=1[01:05] 10=1[13:57] 12=1[30:39] 14=1[42:16] 9=1[06:44] 11=1[20:16] 13=1[35:20] 17=2[00:00] [1994] Virgin (US) [1995] Virgin (GB) TAND 3 7243 8 39445 2 1 ________________________________________________________________________ FOR 'POLAND': (BTW, Jerzy K. has already told me that 1) there was no power failure in the evening show, 2) there was one short delay in the afternoon show, and 3) the album 'Poland' was not recorded at the Torwar show. But I'm going to hold off on updating this entry until I can hear 'Dreaming on Ice Stadium Evening' with my own ears as I have a half-hour video of the Torwar show -- the Pagart video -- and it seems to follow the beginning of the 'Poland' album perfectly, so I'm skeptical of what Jerzy has said -- sorry Jerzy. Also, if the 'Poland' album was a total reperformance, why would Edgar have put the break indicated below between segments 3 & 4? -- which you can see clearly with a wav editor even if you think it is merely a pause, which it clearly is NOT!) ________________________________________________________________________ Tangerine Dream sign performance contract with Jive Electro [Nov 83?] ________________________________________________________________________ -venue?-, Poznan, Poland [9 Dec 83, afternoon] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ -venue?-, Poznan, Poland [9 Dec 83, evening] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ Torwar Ice Stadium, Warsaw [10 Dec 83, afternoon] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ Torwar Ice Stadium, Warsaw [10 Dec 83, evening] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ -venue?-, Zabrze, Poland [11 Dec 83, afternoon] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ -venue?-, Zabrze, Poland [11 Dec 83, evening] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ -venue?-, Lodz, Poland [12 Dec 83] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ -venue?-, Opole, Poland [14 Dec 83] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ -venue?-, Wroclaw, Poland [15 Dec 83] - EF+CF+JS ________________________________________________________________________ Poland [spring 84] - EF+CF+JS ________________ __/ 'Poland' Suite \______________ 00:00 (bridge break-8) [8] 00:00 (intro/atmosphere) [48] 8 00:08 Warsaw in the Sun [4:43] 1 00:48 Love on a Polish Train 9 04:51 Barbakane 3 [3:17] [10:42] _________________ 11:16 (bridge 1-2) [2:26] __/ 'Horizon' Suite \_____________ 2 13:42 Poland 2 [8:46] 00:00 (atmosphere) 22:18 (bridge 2-3) [37] 10 04:20 Horizon 1 [5:13] _________________ 09:33 (bridge 10-11) [4:34] __/ 'Tangent' Suite \_____________ 11 14:07 Horizon 2 [6:32] 3 22:55 Tangent 1 [3:16] _______ 26:11 (bridge 3-break) [?] __/ Edits \_______________________ == break ========================= 12 Barbakane 3 [1:37] %9 00:00 (bridge break-4) [0:50] (early fade) 4 00:50 Tangent 2 [5:03] 13 Polish Dance [4:20] %5 05:53 (bridge 4-5) [20] (shortened mid) 5 06:13 Polish Dance [5:18] _________ == break ========================= __/ Remixes \_____________________ 6 Rarebird [3:41] 14 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2 ___________________ [3:57] %&+8 __/ 'Barbakane' Suite \___________ 15 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.1 [4:43] 00:00 (atmosphere) [2:42] &+8 7 02:42 The Smuggler [5:52] 16 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2 [3:04] 08:34 (bridge 7-break) [?] %14 (early fade) == break ========================= _______ __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Key: % excerpt; & remix; + overdub Seg 6 identified on 'Dream Roots Collection.' Segs 5, 7, and 11 identified on the 7' and 12' disks. Segs 1-4, and 8-10 given unofficial names to aid cross referencing. Announcement (trans): 'Good evening. State Artistic Agency, PAGART, and State Entertainment Enterprises, IMPART, welcome you to the concert of a group which is one of the creators of the style called electronic rock. ...[long talk, deleted]... Before You: Chris Franke, Johannes Schmoelling and Edgar Froese, or Tangerine Dream.' - Jerzy Kordowicz, Polish Radio 3. The show was supposedly interrupted five times by power failures, as indicated by some of the breaks above. Since many bridges were dubbed after the show to bridge over breaks caused by power failures, further time indexing to what was actually performed is not possible. Further, The actual order of segments is unknown. It has been reported that 'Rarebird' was an encore, which is supported by cheering both before and after. Cheering is also present following 'Polish Dance' and 'Horizon 2', signifying the probable end of sets. __________________ __/ Recordings - AAA \________________________________________________ 7' - Segs 5/14 as 'Polish Dance'/'Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2' [1984] Jive (GB) 74 [1985] Tonpress (PL) S-575 [1984] Jive (GB) P74B (Poland-shaped picture disk) 7' - Segs 13/14 as 'Polish Dance'/'Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2' [1984] Jive (DE) 6.14 254 AC 12' - Segs 11,5/15+16 as 'Warsaw in the Sun' [1984] Jive (GB) T 74 [1984] CBS/Sony (JP) 12AP 3038 [1984] Jive (DE,GB) 6.20382 AE [1984] Carrere (FR) CA 6168.470 [1984] Jive/Teldec (DE) 12AP3038 [1984] Jive/Bertelsman (MX) SL-7139 LP-2x2 - Segs 1+2/3-5+11/6-8/9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' [1984] Jive (GB) HIP 22 [1984] Jive (FR) CA 292 66-226 [1984] Jive (GB) HIP X 22 [1984] Jive/RCA Ariola (CA) [1984] Jive (DE) VL 89284 JV 6616/2 (test pressing) [1984] Tonpress (PL) SX-T 64/65 [1984] Jive (DE) 6.28638 1/2 [1985] CNR Records (NL) 573.003/4 (test pressing) [1986] Rel. (US) EMC 8045 [1984] Jive (DE) 6.28638 X [1984] Jive/Messagerie Musicale (IT) ZL 6626 MC - Segs 1+2,3-5+11/6-8,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' [1984] Jive (GB) HIP C 22 [1986] Rel. (US) EMCT 8045 [1984] Jive (DE) 4.28638 [1997] Metal Mind (PL) CAST 0022 [1984] Jive/Messagerie Musicale (IT) ZK 6626 __________________ __/ Recordings - AAD \________________________________________________ CDx2 - Segs 1+2,3-5,11,6-8,9+10 (5 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg-media trk index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-4[02:50] 9-5[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-4[09:20] 10-5[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-3[00:08] 8-4[14:12] [1984] Jive (DE) 8.28638 [1988] Rel. (US) 88561-8045-2 (titles on discs in blue; spindle: 8045-2-1-1T '21') CDx2 - Segs 1+2,3-5+11,6-8,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-3[02:50] 9-4[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-3[09:20] 10-4[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-2[16:02] 8-3[14:12] [1988] Rel. (US) 88561-8045-2 (titles on discs in brown; spindle: 88561-8045-2/1(V)) CD - Segs 1+2,6+7,9+10 (3 media tracks) as 'Extracts from Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 6-2[02:50] 9-3[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 7-2[09:20] 10-3[14:07] [1984] Jive (GB) CHIP 22 [1984] Jive (DE) 8.26099 ZP (cover artwork tinted brown) [1988] Jive (JP) 32XB-221 [1984] Jive/Carriere (FR) CHIP 22 __________________ __/ Recordings - ADD \________________________________________________ CD - Segs 1+2,3-5+11,6+7+12,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-3[02:50] 9-4[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-3[09:20] 10-4[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-2[16:02] 12-3[14:12] [1996] Ess. (DE,GB) ESM 365 [1996] Sequel (US) 1044-2 [1996] Dureco (NL) ESM 365 ________________________________________________________________________ The point here is: The answers to almost all of our (or my) questions are in the 'big picture' and in our (or my) ears. Regards -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:02 pm Subject: [tree] Tangerine Tree participants database OK. So I finally converted all the entries to a big table and uploaded them to the yahoogroups database Give me your feedback: does it look like this databse going to make things simpler for tree administration and tr4acking? at least we can sort the entries, and we'll be able to update it as we go. well, take a look. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database?method=reportRows&tbl=4 or you can click the new link at http://www.tadream.net/tree Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31793 Re: [tree] Tangerine Tree participants database Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/30/2002 3 KB 31806 Re: [tree] Tangerine Tree participants database Vince LeGrand Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31807 Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Jeffrey Au Yeung Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31808 Re: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Michael W Daniels Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31813 Re: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Jeffrey Au Yeung Thu 1/31/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology NO! NO! NO! Not a database, please. That forces people to use a database program. If a freeform text file is consistent, you can easily write a script to parse it in real time. Leaving it as text, anyone can browse it without a database program. An excellent choise for the parser would be Snobol -- very powerful, much more so than PERL. My $2E-2 -- Mark Joe Shoults wrote: > > what you describe has been a pipe dream of mine for a while for the > tadream.net site. basically, all I really need is a good database design, > and then I can build the master/detail pages from there. In other words: > > * what categories are we trying to define? --> > * what tables should be included in the db? > * what fields in those tables? > > but also include all albums - even the ones TD won't include on their site - > and boots and concerts and profiles of members and all that. > > does anyone know the structure of deadbase? > > OH- by the way, oh, nevermind; I'll send a separate post > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > ... > > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some > > kind of database > > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see all > > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a > > list of the > > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to > > the right venue.... > > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description > > and time > > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder > > to deal with > > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and > > Poland concerts!). > > > > Is there a desire for this? > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tangerine Tree participants database Joe Basically it doesn't matter about the database design, what matters is how all the data is linked. If every fact has a common like that can be tied, then when one pulls up a list, all the links will follow. I will take a look in a few if I can remember the yahoo login to get it. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:02 PM Subject: [tadream] [tree] Tangerine Tree participants database > OK. So I finally converted all the entries to a big table and uploaded them > to the yahoogroups database > > Give me your feedback: does it look like this databse going to make things > simpler for tree administration and tr4acking? at least we can sort the > entries, and we'll be able to update it as we go. well, take a look. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database?method=reportRows&tbl=4 > > or you can click the new link at http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Joe > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:05 pm Subject: [tree] Sorry. You do not have permissions to edit this Record (was: Tangerine Tree participants database) I tried to add my address. -- Mark (feeling rejected) Otherwise, nice job, Joe! Joe Shoults wrote: > > OK. So I finally converted all the entries to a big table and uploaded them > to the yahoogroups database > > Give me your feedback: does it look like this databse going to make things > simpler for tree administration and tr4acking? at least we can sort the > entries, and we'll be able to update it as we go. well, take a look. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database?method=reportRows&tbl=4 > > or you can click the new link at http://www.tadream.net/tree From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:06 pm Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology I work with Oracle all day long. Program stuff in sql as well. I have to disagree with you on the text issue. Then again, I am one of those org. type freaks who prefer everything in some type of order. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:53 PM Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > NO! NO! NO! Not a database, please. That forces people to use a database program. If a freeform text file is consistent, you can easily write a script to parse it in real time. Leaving it as text, anyone can browse it without a database program. An excellent choise for the parser would be Snobol -- very powerful, much more so than PERL. > > My $2E-2 -- Mark > > Joe Shoults wrote: > > > > what you describe has been a pipe dream of mine for a while for the > > tadream.net site. basically, all I really need is a good database design, > > and then I can build the master/detail pages from there. In other words: > > > > * what categories are we trying to define? --> > > * what tables should be included in the db? > > * what fields in those tables? > > > > but also include all albums - even the ones TD won't include on their site - > > and boots and concerts and profiles of members and all that. > > > > does anyone know the structure of deadbase? > > > > OH- by the way, oh, nevermind; I'll send a separate post > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > ... > > > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some > > > kind of database > > > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see all > > > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a > > > list of the > > > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to > > > the right venue.... > > > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description > > > and time > > > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder > > > to deal with > > > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and > > > Poland concerts!). > > > > > > Is there a desire for this? > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: quarlie@a... Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Chronology In a message dated 1/30/02 5:56:55 PM, filipak@e... writes: >I started this in 1966, when I first joined the list when it was hosted >by the University of Wisconsin, Parkside campus (remember that?). I didn't realize the list was THAT old. ;) --Daniel NP: Dream Theater - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:15 pm Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology With all sincere respects, you cannot easily email a database and it is difficult for a large number of people to collaborate on a database. Plain text is easy and if it is consistently formatted, it is just as easy to extract information from it as from a database. Please, I beg. Don't turn it into a database. That would be too limiting and too hard to work with on a global basis. Regards -- Mark 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > I work with Oracle all day long. Program stuff in sql as well. I have to > disagree with you on the text issue. Then again, I am one of those org. type > freaks who prefer everything in some type of order. > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Mark Filipak' > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:53 PM > Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > > > NO! NO! NO! Not a database, please. That forces people to use a database > program. If a freeform text file is consistent, you can easily write a > script to parse it in real time. Leaving it as text, anyone can browse it > without a database program. An excellent choise for the parser would be > Snobol -- very powerful, much more so than PERL. > > > > My $2E-2 -- Mark > > > > Joe Shoults wrote: > > > > > > what you describe has been a pipe dream of mine for a while for the > > > tadream.net site. basically, all I really need is a good database > design, > > > and then I can build the master/detail pages from there. In other words: > > > > > > * what categories are we trying to define? --> > > > * what tables should be included in the db? > > > * what fields in those tables? > > > > > > but also include all albums - even the ones TD won't include on their > site - > > > and boots and concerts and profiles of members and all that. > > > > > > does anyone know the structure of deadbase? > > > > > > OH- by the way, oh, nevermind; I'll send a separate post > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > > ... > > > > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some > > > > kind of database > > > > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see all > > > > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a > > > > list of the > > > > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to > > > > the right venue.... > > > > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description > > > > and time > > > > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder > > > > to deal with > > > > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and > > > > Poland concerts!). > > > > > > > > Is there a desire for this? From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Chronology Er.... Ooops (not the first time). How about 1996? -- Mark (imagine, the TD list started one year before TD was founded... now that's FORESIGHT!) quarlie@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 1/30/02 5:56:55 PM, filipak@e... writes: > > >I started this in 1966, when I first joined the list when it was hosted > >by the University of Wisconsin, Parkside campus (remember that?). > > I didn't realize the list was THAT old. ;) From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:20 pm Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology why would I e-mail? If someone wanted a copy and it was in sql format, then they could import it into access or a host of other databases. If they wanted to down load the whole thing, just ftp it down. If they wanted to convert it to text or html, then access can do that. Communication error on my part as I am not seeing what you are seeing. Yes I have a hard head too... Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:15 PM Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > With all sincere respects, you cannot easily email a database and it is difficult for a large number of people to collaborate on a database. Plain text is easy and if it is consistently formatted, it is just as easy to extract information from it as from a database. Please, I beg. Don't turn it into a database. That would be too limiting and too hard to work with on a global basis. > > Regards -- Mark > > 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > > > I work with Oracle all day long. Program stuff in sql as well. I have to > > disagree with you on the text issue. Then again, I am one of those org. type > > freaks who prefer everything in some type of order. > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > admin@k... > > 661-723-0266 > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'Mark Filipak' > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:53 PM > > Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > > > > > NO! NO! NO! Not a database, please. That forces people to use a database > > program. If a freeform text file is consistent, you can easily write a > > script to parse it in real time. Leaving it as text, anyone can browse it > > without a database program. An excellent choise for the parser would be > > Snobol -- very powerful, much more so than PERL. > > > > > > My $2E-2 -- Mark > > > > > > Joe Shoults wrote: > > > > > > > > what you describe has been a pipe dream of mine for a while for the > > > > tadream.net site. basically, all I really need is a good database > > design, > > > > and then I can build the master/detail pages from there. In other words: > > > > > > > > * what categories are we trying to define? --> > > > > * what tables should be included in the db? > > > > * what fields in those tables? > > > > > > > > but also include all albums - even the ones TD won't include on their > > site - > > > > and boots and concerts and profiles of members and all that. > > > > > > > > does anyone know the structure of deadbase? > > > > > > > > OH- by the way, oh, nevermind; I'll send a separate post > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > > > ... > > > > > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some > > > > > kind of database > > > > > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see all > > > > > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a > > > > > list of the > > > > > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to > > > > > the right venue.... > > > > > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description > > > > > and time > > > > > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder > > > > > to deal with > > > > > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and > > > > > Poland concerts!). > > > > > > > > > > Is there a desire for this? > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31818 Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology Michael Fox Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 30, 2002 11:55 pm Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > why would I e-mail? Maybe you wouldn't, but to answer people's questions, I did (during the period: 1996-1999) and I do, now. Some people on this list may remember how many posts I made in the old days attempting to work out a good format. I tortured the hell out of everyone. (and yes, I'm like a dog with a rag!) > If someone wanted a copy and it was in sql format, then > they could import it into access or a host of other databases. And suppose they don't have access or don't want to learn access. Then they are cut out from direct participation and have to submit requests to some database guru. > If they > wanted to down load the whole thing, just ftp it down. If they wanted to > convert it to text or html, then access can do that. Again, this requires the person to have a database program. Why? To make it easier for you? Bull! No offense intended, but a database program is too hard to work with. Even a relational database. I've written databases -- that's how I started this -- and I have given it years of thought. There's absolutely no reason why you or I couldn't write a parser to extract information from a consistently formatted text file. Will you at least give me that? Sure it will be harder than it is to simply make the data 'fit the database', but what the heck is the point of doing that? Answer: To make it easier. Well, databases suck, IMNSHO. Besides: If you want to put my stuff into a database, you have to parse it, first. Are you going to do that by hand? Answer: No. You will do what I would do: Write a script. Well, why not leave it as text and use the script as an extraction tool to feed a web page on demand? I really do feel passionately about this and I urge you to think long and hard about it. Ciao -- Mark > Communication error on my part as I am not seeing what you are seeing. > Yes I have a hard head too... > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Mark Filipak' > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:15 PM > Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > > > With all sincere respects, you cannot easily email a database and it is > difficult for a large number of people to collaborate on a database. Plain > text is easy and if it is consistently formatted, it is just as easy to > extract information from it as from a database. Please, I beg. Don't turn it > into a database. That would be too limiting and too hard to work with on a > global basis. > > > > Regards -- Mark > > > > 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > > > > > I work with Oracle all day long. Program stuff in sql as well. I have to > > > disagree with you on the text issue. Then again, I am one of those org. > type > > > freaks who prefer everything in some type of order. > > > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > > admin@k... > > > 661-723-0266 > > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: 'Mark Filipak' > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:53 PM > > > Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > > > > > > > NO! NO! NO! Not a database, please. That forces people to use a > database > > > program. If a freeform text file is consistent, you can easily write a > > > script to parse it in real time. Leaving it as text, anyone can browse > it > > > without a database program. An excellent choise for the parser would be > > > Snobol -- very powerful, much more so than PERL. > > > > > > > > My $2E-2 -- Mark > > > > > > > > Joe Shoults wrote: > > > > > > > > > > what you describe has been a pipe dream of mine for a while for the > > > > > tadream.net site. basically, all I really need is a good database > > > design, > > > > > and then I can build the master/detail pages from there. In other > words: > > > > > > > > > > * what categories are we trying to define? --> > > > > > * what tables should be included in the db? > > > > > * what fields in those tables? > > > > > > > > > > but also include all albums - even the ones TD won't include on > their > > > site - > > > > > and boots and concerts and profiles of members and all that. > > > > > > > > > > does anyone know the structure of deadbase? > > > > > > > > > > OH- by the way, oh, nevermind; I'll send a separate post > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > > > > ... > > > > > > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some > > > > > > kind of database > > > > > > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see > all > > > > > > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a > > > > > > list of the > > > > > > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to > > > > > > the right venue.... > > > > > > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description > > > > > > and time > > > > > > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder > > > > > > to deal with > > > > > > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and > > > > > > Poland concerts!). > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a desire for this? From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:32 am Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology I like cats myself. I am not concerned too much about those who wish to stay low tech. I am thinking of making a database of all the facts and putting it on the web. If you wish to use it, then use it. If you wish to have someone else use it for you then do so. So you can stay in your yard with your rag doll and have a nut. If anyone wants to throw you a bone, I am all for it. If you wish to have a text only database that is fine with me, as I will pull data from it and place it into a database... Over 23 years in computers has lead me to believe that those who want to remain in one environment, should. Far be it from me to force something down your throat. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:55 PM Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > > > why would I e-mail? > > Maybe you wouldn't, but to answer people's questions, I did (during the period: 1996-1999) and I do, now. Some people on this list may remember how many posts I made in the old days attempting to work out a good format. I tortured the hell out of everyone. (and yes, I'm like a dog with a rag!) > > > If someone wanted a copy and it was in sql format, then > > they could import it into access or a host of other databases. > > And suppose they don't have access or don't want to learn access. Then they are cut out from direct participation and have to submit requests to some database guru. > > > If they > > wanted to down load the whole thing, just ftp it down. If they wanted to > > convert it to text or html, then access can do that. > > Again, this requires the person to have a database program. Why? To make it easier for you? Bull! No offense intended, but a database program is too hard to work with. Even a relational database. I've written databases -- that's how I started this -- and I have given it years of thought. There's absolutely no reason why you or I couldn't write a parser to extract information from a consistently formatted text file. Will you at least give me that? Sure it will be harder than it is to simply make the data 'fit the database', but what the heck is the point of doing that? Answer: To make it easier. Well, databases suck, IMNSHO. > > Besides: If you want to put my stuff into a database, you have to parse it, first. Are you going to do that by hand? Answer: No. You will do what I would do: Write a script. Well, why not leave it as text and use the script as an extraction tool to feed a web page on demand? > > I really do feel passionately about this and I urge you to think long and hard about it. > > Ciao -- Mark > > > Communication error on my part as I am not seeing what you are seeing. > > Yes I have a hard head too... > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > admin@k... > > 661-723-0266 > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'Mark Filipak' > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 3:15 PM > > Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > > > > > With all sincere respects, you cannot easily email a database and it is > > difficult for a large number of people to collaborate on a database. Plain > > text is easy and if it is consistently formatted, it is just as easy to > > extract information from it as from a database. Please, I beg. Don't turn it > > into a database. That would be too limiting and too hard to work with on a > > global basis. > > > > > > Regards -- Mark > > > > > > 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > > > > > > > I work with Oracle all day long. Program stuff in sql as well. I have to > > > > disagree with you on the text issue. Then again, I am one of those org. > > type > > > > freaks who prefer everything in some type of order. > > > > > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > > > admin@k... > > > > 661-723-0266 > > > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: 'Mark Filipak' > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:53 PM > > > > Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > > > > > > > > > NO! NO! NO! Not a database, please. That forces people to use a > > database > > > > program. If a freeform text file is consistent, you can easily write a > > > > script to parse it in real time. Leaving it as text, anyone can browse > > it > > > > without a database program. An excellent choise for the parser would be > > > > Snobol -- very powerful, much more so than PERL. > > > > > > > > > > My $2E-2 -- Mark > > > > > > > > > > Joe Shoults wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > what you describe has been a pipe dream of mine for a while for the > > > > > > tadream.net site. basically, all I really need is a good database > > > > design, > > > > > > and then I can build the master/detail pages from there. In other > > words: > > > > > > > > > > > > * what categories are we trying to define? --> > > > > > > * what tables should be included in the db? > > > > > > * what fields in those tables? > > > > > > > > > > > > but also include all albums - even the ones TD won't include on > > their > > > > site - > > > > > > and boots and concerts and profiles of members and all that. > > > > > > > > > > > > does anyone know the structure of deadbase? > > > > > > > > > > > > OH- by the way, oh, nevermind; I'll send a separate post > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > I've got the desire and motivation to start building some > > > > > > > kind of database > > > > > > > that would plug into a website where you can pick a date and see > > all > > > > > > > relevant information about that show, or you can pick from a > > > > > > > list of the > > > > > > > most common bootleg names and similarly get transferred to > > > > > > > the right venue.... > > > > > > > Each common bootleg would be in bold with a short description > > > > > > > and time > > > > > > > index after it. Then there would be a catchall 'Notes' folder > > > > > > > to deal with > > > > > > > any oddities (you can imagine the notes under the Logos and > > > > > > > Poland concerts!). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a desire for this? > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:35 am Subject: 1966... >Er.... Ooops (not the first time). How about 1996? -- Mark (imagine, the TD >list started one year before TD was founded... now that's FORESIGHT!) >>In a message dated 1/30/02 5:56:55 PM, filipak@e... writes: > >I started this in 1966, when I first joined the list when it was hosted >by the University of Wisconsin, Parkside campus (remember that?). >I didn't realize the list was THAT old. ;) perhaps this will give us a big hint as to the 'real' origin of the band's name 'tangerine dream'--as if.... :) --T (who really hates ACCESS except when having difficulty sleeping-- then I climb into bed open the book and voila within moments a daliesque sleep fuse. It's when the book smacks me in the face after I've fallen asleep that I really really hate ACCESS) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:44 am Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > I like cats myself. > I am not concerned too much about those who wish to stay low tech. I am > thinking of making a database of all the facts and putting it on the web. If > you wish to use it, then use it. If you wish to have someone else use it for > you then do so. > So you can stay in your yard with your rag doll and have a nut. If anyone > wants to throw you a bone, I am all for it. > If you wish to have a text only database that is fine with me, as I will > pull data from it and place it into a database... > Over 23 years in computers has lead me to believe that those who want to > remain in one environment, should. Far be it from me to force something down > your throat. > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com Okay, fine. Do your database thing. I couldn't and wouldn't stop you, but you didn't respond to my comment that you can do it all with a special purpose parser and leave the 'data' as plain text. Care to stick your neck out? ;) -- Mark From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 12:53 am Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology yea first I have not seen what you have so I can't comment how much it is meshed second, most likely, as I am envisioning this if I can't get at least two confirmed sources per fact, it would not get in the database at least not the main one I would carry a second one with unconfirmed facts I also write for newspapers too... so I am anal on the sources being confirmed I see a sql database, web accessed via mysql for query... sources listed per fact that can be looked up. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 4:44 PM Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology > 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > > > I like cats myself. > > I am not concerned too much about those who wish to stay low tech. I am > > thinking of making a database of all the facts and putting it on the web. If > > you wish to use it, then use it. If you wish to have someone else use it for > > you then do so. > > So you can stay in your yard with your rag doll and have a nut. If anyone > > wants to throw you a bone, I am all for it. > > If you wish to have a text only database that is fine with me, as I will > > pull data from it and place it into a database... > > Over 23 years in computers has lead me to believe that those who want to > > remain in one environment, should. Far be it from me to force something down > > your throat. > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > Okay, fine. Do your database thing. I couldn't and wouldn't stop you, but you didn't respond to my comment that you can do it all with a special purpose parser and leave the 'data' as plain text. Care to stick your neck out? ;) > > -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: scfeldman@j... Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:14 am Subject: I like cats myself (was Chronology) On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:44:30 -0500 Mark Filipak writes: >>I like cats myself. Oh goodie! Me too! Finally, something on this list that I can sink my teeth into (talk about kitty cats, not kitty cats themselves). Honestly, I don't think I've deleted so many postings from this list from my inbox for a loooooong time. I mean, between the techie babble about burner formats and databases, the minutiae about cathedrals, and the warmed- over guesses about the real reason behind our fave band's name . . . snore. TD fandom has lists for fans of old TD, for fans of new TD, for Edgar Apologists, for completists, and for gearheads. Maybe somebody should start one for acute techies -- because for many of us, there has been cute a waste of bandwidth going on here lately. I'll go back to sleep now and leave you all to boring the crap out of each other (and when I wake up, it'll be back to playing MARS POLARIS and DREAM MIXES III for *this* girlyman). Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . >-- Mark -- Steven Feldman , webmaster for the Chang Cheh website at http://changcheh.0catch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31821 Re: I like cats myself (was Chronology) Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/31/2002 4 KB From: 'Vince LeGrand' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tangerine Tree participants database > OK. So I finally converted all the entries to a big table and uploaded them > to the yahoogroups database > > Give me your feedback: Joe, I see you have me listed for Redbook. I thought I had specified my preference to be SHN, but that I could burn Redbook if needed. Could you change the info for me? Thanks. Vince Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31807 Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Jeffrey Au Yeung Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31808 Re: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Michael W Daniels Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31813 Re: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Jeffrey Au Yeung Thu 1/31/2002 3 KB From: Jeffrey Au Yeung Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:11 am Subject: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Hello Could anybody pls kindly tell me where Dayton in the States is? Which Greenwich timezone does it belong to? Thanks Jeffrey _______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com.hk address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31808 Re: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Michael W Daniels Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31813 Re: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Jeffrey Au Yeung Thu 1/31/2002 3 KB From: Michael W Daniels Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:59 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Off-topic: Where is Dayton? At 12:11 PM 1/31/2002 +0800, you wrote: >Could anybody pls kindly tell me where Dayton in the >States is? Which Greenwich timezone does it belong to? Dayton, Ohio, is -0500. -- Michael W. Daniels | 'The thunder was ominous-sounding, much daniels@l... | like the sound of a thin sheet of metal Department of Linguistics | being shaken backstage during the storm 218 Oxley Hall | scene in a play.' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31813 Re: Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Jeffrey Au Yeung Thu 1/31/2002 3 KB From: TheInfection Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:10 am Subject: Re: Define CF shortly --- John Vertical wrote: > I need to explain to Mr. Average shortly who Chris > Franke is within the > space of let's say ten words. > My ideas so far are: > 'Inventor of the techno rhytm' > 'Some electronic music guru' > > Can anyone think of a better one (s)? > > John Vertical Chris Franke, recently the man who has brought together electronic synths and symphony orchestra succesfully. He's a pioneer along side with Hans Zimmer. I'm heard that they are close friends. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31811 Off topic: Jean Michel Jarre on danish TV today Peter Ravn Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:29 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Define CF shortly >Chris Franke, recently the man who has brought >together electronic synths and symphony orchestra >succesfully. He's a pioneer along side with Hans >Zimmer. I'm heard that they are close friends. > >Regards, >TheInfection I hope I can explain my exact intentions a bit better to you than the rest of this groups - do you know the 'Identical twins' column in the Nyt! -addendum of the Friday edition of Helsingin Sanomat? I have a nice idea for that... To the rest of the group: it's a column where you can post a pair of slightly alike-looking pictures and short (usually not too serious) definitions of who they are, usually persons' but there have been exceptions. Then they take your definitions for the dudes and put them under the wrong pictures... Does this make this any clearer? Aw well, I guess I could just go with my own ones. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31882 Re: Define CF shortly Jim Moore Sun 2/3/2002 4 KB From: Peter Ravn Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:32 am Subject: Off topic: Jean Michel Jarre on danish TV today Hi, Some off topic info on Jean Michel Jarre from http://www.jarre.net : 'Windmill concert feature on Danish tv Tune in to Danish TV station DR1 tomorrow at 19:00 CET. Jean Michel will be present in the programme '19 Direkte', which will pay attention to the concert that Jean Michel Jarre is planning at the windmill park of 'Gammel Vrå Enge' near the city of Aalborg. During the show the audience can phone in and give their opinion about the subjects. The daily broadcasts of 19 Direkte are archived in Real Video, usually with a delay of a few days. The channel is also available via Viasat on the Sirius 3 satellite at 5.0°E. ' -Peter Ravn from Denmark Peter Ravn pr@r... & peter@r... From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:38 am Subject: Gelsenkirchen >You know a lot about Schalke country, Klaus. Where do you live? Near Stuttgart, but my uncle lives in GE and, more to the topic, Chris Horn grew up and still lived in GE while contributing to Dream Collector. Yes, the 'Musiktheater im Revier' is a concert hall in the south of GE, but from time to time they organise 'outside' shows and market them under their label. The TD concert was such an event. cheers, klaus From: Jeffrey Au Yeung Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 9:18 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Off-topic: Where is Dayton? Thanks a lot Michael! Jeffrey --- Michael W Daniels wrote: > At 12:11 PM 1/31/2002 +0800, you wrote: > >Could anybody pls kindly tell me where Dayton in > the > >States is? Which Greenwich timezone does it belong > to? > > Dayton, Ohio, is -0500. > > > -- > Michael W. Daniels | 'The thunder was > ominous-sounding, much > daniels@l... | like the sound of a > thin sheet of metal > Department of Linguistics | being shaken > backstage during the storm > 218 Oxley Hall | scene in a play.' > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com.hk address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk From: Dmitriy V N Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:22 pm Subject: Art Of Vision Since 31.01.2002 I'll be appearing on this list as Art Of Vision Best regards, Dmitriy aka AoV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Art Of Vision Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:28 pm Subject: Mood-affecting albums What albums have strong influence on your mood? That's very important part of TD music, at least for me. Sorcerer, Rubicon - this are the most mood-affecting. They often help when I'm tired or just feel bad White Eagle, Hyperborea, Melrose - I usually play them while doing something long, boring and monotonous. Such sort of thing occurs almost every day with me last month:(( Tangram: this has strange effect - after listening to it I'm usually silent and gloomy. I play it very rare. AoV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31817 Re: Mood-affecting albums John Vertical Thu 1/31/2002 3 KB 31836 Re: Mood-affecting albums Jonathan Holt Fri 2/1/2002 3 KB 31841 Re: Mood-affecting albums John Vertical Fri 2/1/2002 3 KB 31858 Re: Mood-affecting albums Jonathan Holt Sat 2/2/2002 2 KB 31886 Re: Mood-affecting albums TheInfection Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31888 Re: people artofvision01 Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31901 Re: Mood-affecting albums Deb H-J Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31842 Re: Mood-affecting albums TheInfection Fri 2/1/2002 2 KB 31845 Re: Mood-affecting albums Art Of Vision Fri 2/1/2002 3 KB From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 1:52 pm Subject: Sueno Latino on auction Hi all, I have following item on ebay auction: SUENO LATINO / MANUEL GOETTSCHING / ASHRA - CD http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1508992930 Regards heiko - Mr. Optical www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de Bestellen Sie hier Ihre kostenlose head & shoulders Produktprobe - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/ppc?109446C254962016 D2 Vodafone CallYa - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?86795C1493809712 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'John Vertical' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 2:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums >>What albums have strong influence on your mood? Lets' see... Underwater Sunlight always manages to cheer me up. Zeit does quite the opposite. Exit tends to get me nostalgic, mostly because it was my first one. The effect that Ricochet, Alpha Centauri and Rubycon do is that I'm calm, quiet, not thinking much, not wanting anything.. Lily On The Beach is a sure energy snack. The bonus disc in Dream Roots is very relaxing. The impression you get after listening an album and the one you have while listening to it is of course different - it largely depends on the last few minutes. Take White Eagle for instance; the title track is very soothing but the rest is somewhat nervous. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:25 pm Subject: Re: OT RE: [tadream] Chronology At 03:20 PM 01/30/2002 -0800, you wrote: >why would I e-mail? If someone wanted a copy and it was in sql format, then >they could import it into access or a host of other databases. Can't we just make the whole thing an mpg3 file and burn it onto DVD discs in two layers? Mike From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Gelsenkirchen - Dennis & Klaus Dennis & Klaus. Pending confirmation from Dennis' aunt, would you say this is an appropriate entry for the concert? ________________________________________________________________________ Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Buer-Hassel, Germany [11 Nov 81] - EF+CF+JS _______ __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Gelsenkirchen Musiktheater im Revier (Gelsenkirchen District Concert Hall) production at Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche (St. Luke's Church Community Center), ________________________________________________________________________ Please be critical... Thanks -- Mark Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > >You know a lot about Schalke country, Klaus. Where do you live? > > Near Stuttgart, but my uncle lives in GE and, more to the topic, > Chris Horn grew up and still lived in GE while contributing to > Dream Collector. > > Yes, the 'Musiktheater im Revier' is a concert hall in the > south of GE, but from time to time they organise 'outside' > shows and market them under their label. The TD concert > was such an event. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31863 Re: Gelsenkirchen - Dennis & Klaus Dennis Nigbur Sat 2/2/2002 4 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:17 pm Subject: [tree] CALL TO EUROPEAN BRANCHES We are currently defining the constraints that will affect tree structure. One of those constraints is who will be the European branches that will ship overseas to provide the initial The tree is starting in Germany with Heiko. He is seeding 15 (!) European branches. He's done enough work already, so I'm not asking him to have to ship outside Europe. Shipping overseas is not really complicated, but some of you are already familiar with the process. If you don't mind shipping overseas - OR have some particular aversion to it - let me know. Otherwise, I will just assign the branches in the most logical geographic way. Thanks, Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31825 Re: [tree] CALL TO EUROPEAN BRANCHES dreamstogo Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB 31826 Re: [tree] CALL TO EUROPEAN BRANCHES dreamstogo Thu 1/31/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 4:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] I like cats myself (was Chronology) who cares about bandwidth? or how it is even used? a few bits here a few bits there...I guess if you ware using a 2400 baud modem perhaps you have a problem? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:14 PM Subject: [tadream] I like cats myself (was Chronology) > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:44:30 -0500 Mark Filipak > writes: > > >>I like cats myself. > > Oh goodie! Me too! > Finally, something on this list that I can sink my > teeth into (talk about kitty cats, not kitty cats > themselves). Honestly, I don't think I've deleted so many > postings from this list from my inbox for a loooooong time. > I mean, between the techie babble about burner formats and > databases, the minutiae about cathedrals, and the warmed- > over guesses about the real reason behind our fave band's > name . . . snore. > TD fandom has lists for fans of old TD, for fans of > new TD, for Edgar Apologists, for completists, and for > gearheads. Maybe somebody should start one for acute > techies -- because for many of us, there has been cute a > waste of bandwidth going on here lately. > I'll go back to sleep now and leave you all to > boring the crap out of each other (and when I wake up, > it'll be back to playing MARS POLARIS and DREAM MIXES > III for *this* girlyman). > Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . > > >-- Mark > > -- Steven Feldman , > webmaster for the Chang Cheh website > at http://changcheh.0catch.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Liondream@a... Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:32 pm Subject: Sounscapes lineup MJ, That's a pretty impressive list with just those names there, and would definitely make it worth the effort of getting out to Philly. I've been wanting to make it out to the Brandywine Museum and the Wyeth Studio (kind of a pilgrimage), so I'll definitely have to give this some serious thought. Wes In a message dated 1/29/2002 9:48:07 PM Central Standard Time, tadream@yahoogroups.com writes: > And don't forget the Gatherings in Philly... This seasons schedule includes > Robert Rich, Erik Wollo, and Steve Roach... It could be worth the > drive...even from Chicago... > > MJ (a former Chicagoan who misses hearing 'real' blues) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31875 Re: Sounscapes lineup Bill Fox Sun 2/3/2002 3 KB From: Liondream@a... Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 6:31 pm Subject: Soundscapes organizing Hi Bill, Hmm, I don't know of any local space music radio shows around here (Chicago). We get Musical Star Streams out of San Francisco (I believe?) on Sunday nights but that's it as far as I know. The thought has crossed my mind about trying to do or organize something like what you're describing locally (since there isn't anyone else I know of doing it around here), but I'm told there isn't much interest in electronic/space music performance around here. Perhaps my 'advisors' are wrong . Quite honestly, I don't think I'm up for such an organizational challenge either, but I would be very happy to chip in if anyone else would be willing to take up the torch! Or perhaps if I could come across a kindred spirit crazy person out here... Wes In a message dated 1/29/2002 9:48:07 PM Central Standard Time, tadream@yahoogroups.com writes: > I love The Gatherings organized by Chuck van Zyl. But it is a long drive to > Philly and not many people in my area make the trek like I do. Plus I want > to > expand the concert opportunities for electronic musicians. Vic does > Ricochet > Dreams in Georgia (went to the 2nd one, will go to the 3rd one) and Steve > Jenkins did the Hampshire Jam in the UK last year (went to it). Since I'm > out > of work, I thought I'd try my hand at doing something in my area. LOTSA > WORK!!! > But it'll probably be worth it. > > So if there isn't anyone in your area who is crazier than you, good luck in > starting your own concert scene! :-) Is there any spacemusic on the radio > in > your area? > > Cheers, > > Bill [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:27 pm Subject: OT: US EM distributors needed Steve Jenkins organized the Hampshire Jam, what some call 'the best day's concert ever in the UK.' It was a 5 band gig: Airsculpture, RMI, Free System Projekt, Under the Dome and Headshock. Look for the CD to hit stores sometime around April '02! Steve needs help locating EM distributors in the US; if you can help, please contact him at steve@l... From: 'dreamstogo' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:49 pm Subject: Re: [tree] CALL TO EUROPEAN BRANCHES Hi Joe, I am willing to ship overseas if you require. I live in FRANCE. Regards, Hilary --- In tadream@y..., Joe Shoults wrote: > We are currently defining the constraints that will affect tree structure. > One of those constraints is who will be the European branches that will ship > overseas to provide the initial > > The tree is starting in Germany with Heiko. He is seeding 15 (!) European > branches. He's done enough work already, so I'm not asking him to have to > ship outside Europe. > > Shipping overseas is not really complicated, but some of you are already > familiar with the process. If you don't mind shipping overseas - OR have > some particular aversion to it - let me know. Otherwise, I will just assign > the branches in the most logical geographic way. > > Thanks, > Joe From: 'dreamstogo' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 7:52 pm Subject: Re: [tree] CALL TO EUROPEAN BRANCHES Hi Joe, I am willing to ship overseas if you require. I live in FRANCE. Regards, Hilary --- In tadream@y..., Joe Shoults wrote: > We are currently defining the constraints that will affect tree structure. > One of those constraints is who will be the European branches that will ship > overseas to provide the initial > > The tree is starting in Germany with Heiko. He is seeding 15 (!) European > branches. He's done enough work already, so I'm not asking him to have to > ship outside Europe. > > Shipping overseas is not really complicated, but some of you are already > familiar with the process. If you don't mind shipping overseas - OR have > some particular aversion to it - let me know. Otherwise, I will just assign > the branches in the most logical geographic way. > > Thanks, > Joe From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 10:19 pm Subject: [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ UPDATES The database with all tree participants is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database You can edit your own record in this table. Check your record and if anything needs to be changed, do it now. If you are not listed below, notify me immediately. I will begin the tree structure tonight at approx. 0200 GMT. If you have problems with your yahooID, or are otherwise unable to access the database, here is a link to the same data, but you cannot edit it; you have to contact me asap: http://www.tadream.net/tree/treefinal.htm Thanks, Joe Here are the current participants: Adele Outland Al Benson Alex Tye Alexander Bjelke André Denis Andrei Chtcherbatchenko Andrew Prime Antonio Nunes arne richter Artur Stoncel baG Brian aka meta_mythos Brian Stewart Brian Walenz CARLOS A. MARTINEZ Chris Owen Chris Towers Christian Villazónicq: 38543360 Colin Anderson Colin Anderson Conrad Gibbons Craig Chambers Craig Claerbaut Craig Cordrey Dale Kay Dan Downey Dan Eberly Daniel Felice Dave Dunham David Foster Dean Mitchell Deb H-J Dennis Nigbur Dmitriy V. Nikitin Doug Moon Duncan McKee Emanue Salgado Vieira Neto Éric Rochon FRANK CASTLE Fred Reynolds Gabe Yedid Gary Dobinson Georg Oppenberg Gerry Fox Gert Jalass Grant Somerville Gustavo Jobim Heiko Heerssen Heiko Neumann Hermes Guzman Hilary Wright j.gordon Jacek Szulc James Owens Jan Aunsholt Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Jeff Misner Jeff Stevenson JerzyK Jim Lawton Joe Shoults John Christian John Marchington John McIntyre jonathan ewald Jonathan Holt Jorge Figueiredo Karl W. Reinsch Kelvin Munson Ken Beal Kevin Earley Kevin Jowers Kevin Robert Ball kim pedersen Kostas L.T. Darby Maciej Gozdek Marc Dodsworth marc todd Marcel Engels Marion Horrod Mark Filipak Mark H. Marko Marin aka TheInfection Martyn Capel Martyn Lambert Matthew Sawyer Michael Berling Michael Bonde Michael Fox Michael Piersanti Michael W. Daniels Michal Moroz Mikael Jussila Mikael Stark Runsten Mike Browder Morgan Feldon Neal Frost Neil Hudson Neil Jellis Neil Perryman Nick Adams Olle Rundgren Oscar Dean Paul Ellis Paul Fellows Paul Ridout Pete Isaacson Peter Stoeferle Phil White Piotr Sulkowski Radu Velicescu RAFAL 'Raffi' PALUSZKIEWICZ Raimo Mäkinen Richard Maggio Richard Stockwell Robert Bobowski Robert Grabowsky ROBERT PITAK Rogelio Cavazos, Jr. Roger 'arehjay@y...' Roger Hartopp Roger Roden Roger Schuncken Roger Smith Siggi Lindhost Stephen Manship Steve Collins Steve Craftman Steve Jenkins Steve Whitely Steve Yensen tei waz Tim Lemon Timo Astala Tom George tom weibrecht Tomas Rydqvist Torsten Gerber Utch Entel Uwe Herold Veine K Vikberg Vic Rek Vince LeGrand Vincent Goudreault Vincent Guérenne Volkmar Friauf Wouter Bessels Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31828 Re: [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ herold.u@t... Thu 1/31/2002 5 KB From: herold.u@t... Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 10:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ UPDATES Hi Joe, the link http://www.tadream.net/tree/treefinal.htm doesn't work (?) I'd sign up as a branch for '5' (redbook) . I'll ship oversea too - no problem. My address (to complete my datas): Uwe Herold Wölbattendorfer Weg 51 95030 Hof Germany cheers, Uwe ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:19 PM Subject: [tadream] [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ UPDATES The database with all tree participants is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database You can edit your own record in this table. Check your record and if anything needs to be changed, do it now. If you are not listed below, notify me immediately. I will begin the tree structure tonight at approx. 0200 GMT. If you have problems with your yahooID, or are otherwise unable to access the database, here is a link to the same data, but you cannot edit it; you have to contact me asap: http://www.tadream.net/tree/treefinal.htm Thanks, Joe Here are the current participants: Adele Outland Al Benson Alex Tye Alexander Bjelke André Denis Andrei Chtcherbatchenko Andrew Prime Antonio Nunes arne richter Artur Stoncel baG Brian aka meta_mythos Brian Stewart Brian Walenz CARLOS A. MARTINEZ Chris Owen Chris Towers Christian Villazónicq: 38543360 Colin Anderson Colin Anderson Conrad Gibbons Craig Chambers Craig Claerbaut Craig Cordrey Dale Kay Dan Downey Dan Eberly Daniel Felice Dave Dunham David Foster Dean Mitchell Deb H-J Dennis Nigbur Dmitriy V. Nikitin Doug Moon Duncan McKee Emanue Salgado Vieira Neto Éric Rochon FRANK CASTLE Fred Reynolds Gabe Yedid Gary Dobinson Georg Oppenberg Gerry Fox Gert Jalass Grant Somerville Gustavo Jobim Heiko Heerssen Heiko Neumann Hermes Guzman Hilary Wright j.gordon Jacek Szulc James Owens Jan Aunsholt Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Jeff Misner Jeff Stevenson JerzyK Jim Lawton Joe Shoults John Christian John Marchington John McIntyre jonathan ewald Jonathan Holt Jorge Figueiredo Karl W. Reinsch Kelvin Munson Ken Beal Kevin Earley Kevin Jowers Kevin Robert Ball kim pedersen Kostas L.T. Darby Maciej Gozdek Marc Dodsworth marc todd Marcel Engels Marion Horrod Mark Filipak Mark H. Marko Marin aka TheInfection Martyn Capel Martyn Lambert Matthew Sawyer Michael Berling Michael Bonde Michael Fox Michael Piersanti Michael W. Daniels Michal Moroz Mikael Jussila Mikael Stark Runsten Mike Browder Morgan Feldon Neal Frost Neil Hudson Neil Jellis Neil Perryman Nick Adams Olle Rundgren Oscar Dean Paul Ellis Paul Fellows Paul Ridout Pete Isaacson Peter Stoeferle Phil White Piotr Sulkowski Radu Velicescu RAFAL 'Raffi' PALUSZKIEWICZ Raimo Mäkinen Richard Maggio Richard Stockwell Robert Bobowski Robert Grabowsky ROBERT PITAK Rogelio Cavazos, Jr. Roger 'arehjay@y...' Roger Hartopp Roger Roden Roger Schuncken Roger Smith Siggi Lindhost Stephen Manship Steve Collins Steve Craftman Steve Jenkins Steve Whitely Steve Yensen tei waz Tim Lemon Timo Astala Tom George tom weibrecht Tomas Rydqvist Torsten Gerber Utch Entel Uwe Herold Veine K Vikberg Vic Rek Vince LeGrand Vincent Goudreault Vincent Guérenne Volkmar Friauf Wouter Bessels ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ UPDAT ES sorry- you must have looked right before I put it up. try again. I made note of your info, Uwe. thanks. > -----Original Message----- > From: herold.u@t... [mailto:herold.u@t...] > > > Hi Joe, > > the link > http://www.tadream.net/tree/treefinal.htm > doesn't work (?) > > I'd sign up as a branch for '5' (redbook) . I'll ship oversea too - no > problem. > > My address (to complete my datas): > Uwe Herold > Wölbattendorfer Weg 51 > 95030 Hof > Germany > > cheers, > Uwe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31866 Re: [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ Jim Moore Sat 2/2/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:43 pm Subject: mysql >Administrator for kay-net.com said: >What I would like to do is >take all the facts that can be gathered, place into a sql database then >pop it onto one of my web servers that has mysql running for access >via web search / query My original idea was really a kludge. To make an input file that's read into a quickbasic program I would write that generates the HTML files. I've got MySQL on my feldoncentral.com website. (I have a vBulletin forum running there). What I need is software to make a nice front-end that doesn't feel so 'Databasey.' Suggestions welcome. I'd much rather do it all by database if possible. Contact me off-list morgan @ tivofan.com or by clicking 'Reply' above. -Morgan From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 12:47 am Subject: Addresses? Not sure about people's mailing addresses being revealed in the database to any member. Shouldn't this information be private? I even worry a bit about full last names being revealed but that's just me. :) -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31862 Re: Addresses? Dennis Nigbur Sat 2/2/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 12:52 am Subject: Readability >Mark Filipak said: >With all sincere respects, you cannot easily email a database and it is >difficult for a large number of people to collaborate on a database. Plain >text >is easy and if it is consistently formatted, it is just as easy to extract >information from it as from a database. Please, I beg. Don't turn it into a >database. That would be too limiting and too hard to work with on a global >basis. I'm sorry, but the readability of your information chunks has been pretty limited and posting this information without hyperlinks, is not something that I desire. Also I'm not sure where the idea that databases make collaboration harder came from. The reason databases exist is for collaboration. They are specifically tailored for it. The worst possible thing would be to have 50 copies of a 300kb text file floating around, each with modifications. I would much rather have several backups of the database on my hard drive and a few people would be able to log in and make changes/updates (and I would maintain a changelog). -Morgan From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 12:53 am Subject: Torwar 83 Jerry and someone else from Poland have given me conflicting information about which show was interrupted at the 10 minute, 30 second point, Evening or Afternoon. I'm going to go by Afternoon for now. I don't know if the power went out or a piece of equipment exploded, but the music dies mid-note and after a second, the audience applauds what they've played so far (I hope they're not applauding an absence of music!). An unknown amount of time elapses before they get it straightened out and resume on part 2 of Poland (the bridge-type track). I've got the pitch-corrected Dreaming On Ice Stadium bootleg of the December 10, 1983 evening and (30 minutes of) the afternoon show (assuming the afternoon show is what had the power failure). It's a great bootleg once you get sorted out what is what! I ended up completely reshuffling all the tracks to match the actual setlist. Not sure why the tracks are in the order chosen. >Administrator said: >FOR 'POLAND': (BTW, Jerzy K. has already told me that 1) there was no power >failure in the evening show, 2) there was one short delay in the afternoon >show, and 3) the album 'Poland' was not recorded at the Torwar show. But I'm >going to hold off on updating this entry until I can hear 'Dreaming on Ice >Stadium Evening' with my own ears as I have a half-hour video of the Torwar >show -- the Pagart video -- and it seems to follow the beginning of the >'Poland' album perfectly, so I'm skeptical of what Jerzy has said -- sorry >Jerzy. The Pagart video does not match the Poland album. I can give you time indexes where they differ if you like. It is quite obvious in places, but then again I have a strange knack for recognizing from 20 paces when something 'new' appears in the music. For instance, the Logos Dominion CD, for the most part, matches the actual Dominion show in 82, including the announcement 'thank you for being patient' BUT the last 8 minutes of the Logos CD are quite different. Johannes got carried away on the melody line here in the live version and it was re-recorded in the studio. If anything, set 2 of the Logos CD more closely matches other 82 shows like 82 Dusseldorf, but there are still tonal and melodic differences even between that and the Logos CD. Also, is there any confirmation that the 1983 Poland video (which I also possess on video CD now) is indeed from December 10, 1983? I need to compare these again because there seem to be differences here too. There were several other shows in 1983 Poland. >Also, if the 'Poland' album was a total reperformance, why would Edgar >have put the break indicated below between segments 3 & 4? -- which you >can see >clearly with a wav editor even if you think it is merely a pause, which it >clearly is NOT!) Because they performed it in the studio and didn't bother to stop and restart between Poland and Tangent. In fact, the names 'Poland' and 'Tangent' are arbitrary. It had to be faded at the 22 minute mark to fit on vinyl and they didn't bother to reassemble it when they put it on CD. Logos vinyl has the same type of fade in/out but it was fixed before they put it out on CD. Compare the Poland 2CD release to a pitch-corrected Dreaming on Ice Stadium and there are irrefutable differences. Poland segments 1-3 duration from the first note to the beginning of Tangent is: 21:31 on the official CD 26:32 on the 'Dreaming on Ice Stadium' bootleg 28:45 on the Osaka, Japan 83 recording (if you're curious) You can sit there with a pen and paper and count the number of times the sequence is repeated before the melody kicks in and it's nearly double on Dreaming and nearly triple on Osaka. This is not unheard of at all! In fall 1981, they started playing the first 3 1/2 minute coda of Logos. But at the time, it was an unrefined, repetitious 10 minute track! They cleaned it up for the 82 shows. My focus on this website is to cover bootlegs only and not even to go into detail as to what tracks were played at each. Mark Shaffer and John Burek's tour description website (http://www.zebbyworld.demon.co.uk/Frames/Frameset2.html) already does a better job at covering this than I ever could. I also think it is beyond the scope to try to cover Vic's (And other's) specialty, listing/having 1 copy of each album as released in every possible country with every possible artwork. :) (just kidding Vic!) Really, there is plenty known about the officially released stuff. The only documentation I plan to have about official releases is where some or all of the contents of an official release matches (or is professed to match or be representative of!) a live show. I'm sure others will have opinions. Also, Administrator, I lose a lot of the effect of your Chronology because I read tadream on the yahoo website and all your neatly lined up columns get lost in the translation. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31838 Re: Torwar 83 Mark Filipak Fri 2/1/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 12:57 am Subject: Plaintext parser >There's absolutely no >reason why you or I couldn't write a parser to extract information from a >consistently formatted text file. Will you at least give me that? Actually, my original idea was to do a file with tags and write my own parser to generate HTML pages. I might still do this. But tags look ugly (and hyperlinks look even worse) in a plaintext file if you are trying to read it. My files would look like: [date]YYMMDD [loc]Houston, TX [venue]Astrodome -description here- [boot]MM:SS [rating]7 [name]The Tangerine-colored Cowboy (sorry i am replying to these posts in bursts, I should read ahead and write single replies to multiple posts) From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 3:14 am Subject: RE: Problems with mailing list That is correct. The artwork for the jewel cases and CDRs will be available for download, and just like the movie 'Clue', we have three different versions! Maff, Duncan and Gustavo are all working on their versions, and once done, we will post links (see footer link, where you can see design previews). We will also have a template for you to make your own box for a boxed set in which to store all the jewel cases, and the artwork to glue to it. At least one design will have a spine image; that is, that when you line up all the CDRs side by side, their edges will form a single image. If you can't print your own, I know that Kinkos will print stuff that you e-mail to them (done it), then mail it back to you. If I can use the color printer at work, I'll go get some photo paper for the best possible print. Joe -----Original Message----- From: 3N ... Joe, I have one question more. The cover art-works we will copied onto the additional cdr? Or we must print it and send to the next participant? (digital) format - for me is the best solution - now I can print it on the photopaper with my own colour correction. From: Jonathan Holt Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 1:16 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums Force Majeure is the album I put on when I need an escape... Tangram is exceptionally beautiful but it does leave me feeling somewhat solemn afterwards... I could do this for hours and have something different for each album! The influence of music on one's moods is tremendously important when determining how important a song is to the listener. Being apathetic towards a piece of music, be it Britney, Bach or Edgar's latest is just about impossible... Thoughts, anyone? --- Art Of Vision wrote: > What albums have strong influence on your mood? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: 'edmorrisuk' Date: Thu Jan 31, 2002 9:02 pm Subject: Inferno Hi all Decided to sign up after months of reading communications. A very interesting and informative discussion group. My name is Ed Morris and I live in Swansea, Wales, UK. Been a fan of Tangerine Dream since I first read a review, and then purchased Rubycon in early 1975. First saw them live in 1976 on the Stratosfear tour (found the ticket stub last year!). Last saw them in London in May of last year. Just received the latest listing from Compact Disc Services in Dundee. 'Inferno' is listed at £12.99 - says its due out in Feb. Anyone else know if this is correct?. Ed From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 3:06 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Torwar 83 Morgan Feldon wrote: -snip- > >Administrator said: > >FOR 'POLAND': (BTW, Jerzy K. has already told me that 1) there was no power > >failure in the evening show, 2) there was one short delay in the afternoon > >show, and 3) the album 'Poland' was not recorded at the Torwar show. But I'm > >going to hold off on updating this entry until I can hear 'Dreaming on Ice > >Stadium Evening' with my own ears as I have a half-hour video of the Torwar > >show -- the Pagart video -- and it seems to follow the beginning of the > >'Poland' album perfectly, so I'm skeptical of what Jerzy has said -- sorry > >Jerzy. Morgan, that was me, Mark Filipak, not 'Administrator'. -snip lots of useful info about 'Poland' that saves me a lot of listening time... ... thanks Morgan!- > Also, Administrator, I lose a lot of the effect of your Chronology because > I read tadream on the yahoo website and all your neatly lined up columns > get lost in the translation. Again, it is me: Mark. Yeah, web mail sucks. I formatted the chronology for 73 characters per line because that is compatible with all browser defaults... except then along comes web mail, which looks like it wraps lines at about 40 characters to fit into the teeny, tiny window it gives you. So stop using sucky web mail and be a real man. (No offense intended to real women, it's just that Morgan seems to be the more manly type of critter.) Ciao -- Mark (who guesses he'll simply continue to pilfer everyone else's research) From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 8:10 am Subject: techies >Maybe somebody should start one for acute >techies -- because for many of us, there has been cute a >waste of bandwidth going on here lately. Discographic details was exactly what the goblinsclub list had been formed for, after similar complaints about people discussing LP matrix numbers etc... Of course, most of our list members are Americans, so the typical attention span to expect is about 8 seconds, but... ;-) ;-) ;-) klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31840 Re: techies Synthhtnys@a... Fri 2/1/2002 3 KB 31853 Re: techies Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 2/1/2002 4 KB 31860 Re: techies dreamstogo Sat 2/2/2002 4 KB 31854 Re: techies Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 2/1/2002 3 KB From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 8:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] techies In a message dated 2/1/2002 2:10:46 AM Central Standard Time, klaus@c... writes: > Of course, most of our list members are Americans, so the > typical attention span to expect is about 8 seconds, but... > ;-) ;-) ;-) > > klaus > *Oh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Dot ees zo funny. Here ees another funny ztory about ztupid people: Jerusalem - German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder accidentally extinguished the eternal flame at Israel's Holocaust memorial that burns in memory of the six million Jews exterminated by the Nazis, AFP correspondents said. The German leader, who is on a tour of the Middle East, turned the switch the wrong way on the flame in the darkened boulder-lined Hall of Remembrance at the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem, they said. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak tried in vain to relight the flame that burns near a crypt containing the ashes of Holocaust victims, and it was only after a few minutes that it was reignited by a Yad Vashem employee with a cigarette lighter. Yad Vashem is the memorial to victims of the Holocaust, the Nazi German slaughter of six million Jews during World War II that led to the creation of the Jewish state in 1948. The memorial is virtually an obligatory stop for official guests in Israel. 'Without knowledge of the past there is no way to a future,' Schroeder wrote in the memorial's book of remembrance. He also laid a wreath in commemoration of those killed. (AFP) Ah yez EET EES ZO FUNNY TO ZTEREOTYPE! Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'John Vertical' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 9:06 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums >Force Majeure is the album I put on when I need an >escape... From the Reality, or to scare other people off? :-) >I could do this for hours and have something different >for each album! The influence of music on one's moods >is tremendously important when determining how >important a song is to the listener. Being apathetic >towards a piece of music, be it Britney, Bach or >Edgar's latest is just about impossible... >Thoughts, anyone? Well, to listen a piece and remain completely emotionless is of course impossible. But I think some pieces may have multiple influences, depending on your state of mind to begin with, and some have only very little influence. And some albums have too many different moods that none can rise above another, as in eg. Poland or Logos. If you want a few examples, then Mysterious Semblance @ etc. may sound to me ghastly and otherworldly if I play it right after Zeit, but if I play it after Hyperborea it'll be a nice wintry ambient piece. Then, there're pieces like Choronzon which may be plain fun but which don't evoke actually themselves much, it's more about the context. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31858 Re: Mood-affecting albums Jonathan Holt Sat 2/2/2002 2 KB 31886 Re: Mood-affecting albums TheInfection Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31888 Re: people artofvision01 Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31901 Re: Mood-affecting albums Deb H-J Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: TheInfection Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 11:15 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums --- Art Of Vision wrote: > What albums have strong influence on your mood? > That's > very important part of TD music, at least for me. > > Sorcerer, Rubicon - this are the most > mood-affecting. > They often help when I'm tired or just feel bad Rubycon and Sorcerer works for me too. And Encore. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Tom Richmond Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 1:17 pm Subject: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder hello everyone: just a reminder that I'll be taking sign-ups for the Dreamwatchers' Tales II tree until February 15th tree structure to be posted by the 18th information on the project and handy sign-up links are available at http://www.tadream.net/ cheers! tom ___________________________ IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this message in error, please delete the material from your computer and notify the sender by email. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, or distribute this message or its contents to any other person and any such actions may be unlawful Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31846 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder Antonio Nunes Fri 2/1/2002 3 KB 31848 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder Joe Shoults Fri 2/1/2002 2 KB From: Art Of Vision Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 11:56 am Subject: Re: Cyclone >The intro in Bent Cold Sidewalk is a strange one, but in a good way. After >that the main theme is catchy, perhaps too poppy butothervise great. >Jollife's vocals are funny, surreal and sort of philosophical; not exactly >perfection but not far either. Here's by the way how I heard the first 4 >lines on the first time: >'On this key, time will smile >Youngens' love, lose your mind >A desert dawn became sober >A Russian sound is bound inside' >Even werider than what they actually are. And what they actually are? It's almost impossible to hear it from the music, especially intro:)) Something about trees... AoV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Art Of Vision Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 8:26 am Subject: Re: Mood-affecting albums >Exit tends to get me nostalgic, mostly because it was my first one. Exit is calming and thoughtful. An image often appears when I'm listening to Exit and Remote Viewing tracks: raining in the giant empty city at night. The titles of tracks on Exit mean something like 'Escape and look at everything from distance' - that's what this album does with me. But I always listen to it beginning with 'Pilots...' . >The bonus disc in Dream Roots is very relaxing. And sevenlettersfromtibet too. >The impression you get after listening an album and the one you have while >listening to it is of course different - it largely depends on the last few >minutes. Sometimes it's last few minutes (Cool At Heart really reverses the whole Melrose album) but often happens in the middle. For example the don-don-don-don section saves Ricochet part 2 ; And unpleasant voices spoil the mood of Tangram set 2, and because set 2 goes after set 1, positive effect of set 1 is reduced heavily. >Take White Eagle for instance; the title track is very soothing but >the rest is somewhat nervous. > >John Vertical > That's strange. I'm listening to this album so often only because of a masterpiece Mojave Plan. Midnight and Convention are just weak tracks and White Eagle is too short and somehow funny because of the 'ta-ta-ta' in the middle. AoV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 2:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder Tom Richmond wrote: > information on the project and handy sign-up links are available at > http://www.tadream.net/ I have a couple of questions about this tree. On http://www.tadream.net/musos/watchgirl/default.htm you can read: 'Note that there is another current tree project in the tadream list; it and this one are mutually exclusive.' Does it mean that if I participate in one tree, I can't participate in the other? You can read also: ''In Memoriam' is a DTS track and can only be heard with a proper installation'. Does it mean that this track won't play at all on a conventional CD player? I don't have a home theater amplifier with Dolby AC and DTS, and I'd rather have an 'ordinary' track that I can play, than a DTS track that I can't play at all. Also, if I can't play the track, how can I be sure that I've received a good CDR and how can I test the copy I made for my branch? Antonio From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 2:22 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Cyclone Checkout the most complete form of the lyrics: http://www.tadream.net/archives/lyrics/cyclone.txt clarified by Steve Joliffe himself. James 'When I talk to the trees, O Great trees who have learned to speak slowly, I know that they believe they have an answer. Then I walk in the city, where I cannot hear it.' > -----Original Message----- > From: Art Of Vision [mailto:artofvision01@y...] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:57 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Cyclone > > > >The intro in Bent Cold Sidewalk is a strange one, but > in a good way. After > >that the main theme is catchy, perhaps too poppy > butothervise great. > >Jollife's vocals are funny, surreal and sort of > philosophical; not exactly > >perfection but not far either. Here's by the way how > I heard the first 4 > >lines on the first time: > >'On this key, time will smile > >Youngens' love, lose your mind > >A desert dawn became sober > >A Russian sound is bound inside' > >Even werider than what they actually are. > > And what they actually are? It's almost impossible to > hear it from the music, especially intro:)) Something > about trees... > > AoV > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 3:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:np97fa@m...] > Does it mean that if I participate in one tree, I can't participate in > the other? no way, you can participate in both, but you sign up with Tom Richmond for Dreamwatcher's Tales, and with Joe Shoults for Tangerine Tree. I can't answer the DTS question. From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 3:20 pm Subject: names/adresses >Not sure about people's mailing addresses being revealed in the >database to any member. > >Shouldn't this information be private? I even worry a bit about full >last names being revealed but that's just me. :) How true. there's even a fitting soundtrack to this statement. Kraftwerk - Computerwelt: 'Interpol und Deutsche Bank, FBI und Scotland Yard, Finanzamt und das BKA, haben unsere Daten da...' ;-) klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31850 Re: names/adresses Joe Shoults Fri 2/1/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 3:53 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] names/adresses I have removed the addresses. > -----Original Message----- > From: Klaus Beschorner [mailto:klaus@c...] > >Shouldn't this information be private? I even worry a bit > about full last names being revealed but that's just me. :) > > How true. From: 'Scott' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 4:26 pm Subject: Re: Origin of TD name About two years ago I reported to the list that the proprietor of my favorite local junkyard- er, used auto parts store, noticed my Tangerine Dream T-shirt once when I was there and said it was indeed a variety of acid he used to drop repeatedly in the '60s. Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31859 Re: Origin of TD name goozergrafx Sat 2/2/2002 2 KB From: 'Scott' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 4:38 pm Subject: Chronology Actually, there has been a print chronology around for several years now. It's called _Mysterious Semblance_ and it was written by this dude named Scott Plumer. Rumor has it that's he's working on a new edtion.... :-) Scott NP: TD, 1/31/80 From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 5:52 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] techies This too does not belong here. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 12:27 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] techies > In a message dated 2/1/2002 2:10:46 AM Central Standard Time, klaus@c... > writes: > > > > Of course, most of our list members are Americans, so the > > typical attention span to expect is about 8 seconds, but... > > ;-) ;-) ;-) > > > > klaus > > > > *Oh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Dot ees zo funny. Here ees another funny ztory > about > ztupid people: > > Jerusalem - German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder accidentally extinguished the > eternal flame at Israel's Holocaust memorial that burns in memory of the six > million Jews exterminated by the Nazis, AFP correspondents said. > > The German leader, who is on a tour of the Middle East, turned the switch the > wrong way on the flame in the darkened boulder-lined Hall of Remembrance at > the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem, they said. > > Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak tried in vain to relight the flame that > burns near a crypt containing the ashes of Holocaust victims, and it was only > after a few minutes that it was reignited by a Yad Vashem employee with a > cigarette lighter. > > Yad Vashem is the memorial to victims of the Holocaust, the Nazi German > slaughter of six million Jews during World War II that led to the creation of > the Jewish state in 1948. The memorial is virtually an obligatory stop for > official guests in Israel. > > 'Without knowledge of the past there is no way to a future,' Schroeder wrote > in the memorial's book of remembrance. He also laid a wreath in commemoration > of those killed. > (AFP) > > Ah yez EET EES ZO FUNNY TO ZTEREOTYPE! > Poly > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31860 Re: techies dreamstogo Sat 2/2/2002 4 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 5:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] techies actually un-called for -----> (> Of course, most of our list members are Americans, so the > typical attention span to expect is about 8 seconds, but... > ;-) ;-) ;-) ) I would go further but that will only lead to more problems. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Klaus Beschorner' To: 'tadream list (mod)' Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 12:10 AM Subject: [tadream] techies > >Maybe somebody should start one for acute > >techies -- because for many of us, there has been cute a > >waste of bandwidth going on here lately. > > Discographic details was exactly what the goblinsclub list > had been formed for, after similar complaints about people > discussing LP matrix numbers etc... > > Of course, most of our list members are Americans, so the > typical attention span to expect is about 8 seconds, but... > ;-) ;-) ;-) > > klaus > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 7:25 pm Subject: variety >noticed my Tangerine Dream T-shirt once when I was there and said it was indeed a variety of acid he used to drop repeatedly in the '60s. keeping with the overkill thread of either too much attention or a less-thann-8-second attention span--did he indicate if it was of the blotter or windowpane variety? --T _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: 'fozziebear' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 7:54 pm Subject: unsubscribe Can the powers that be please unsubscribe my old address please of fozziebear@b... so that I just receive mail on my new address. Thanks. David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: tangram12@a... Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 11:11 pm Subject: rare items on ebay hi everyone i have put up for auction 2 of my hand numbered cd plaques have a look here http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=duncan41& include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Jonathan Holt Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 12:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums --- John Vertical wrote: > >Force Majeure is the album I put on when I need an > >escape... > > > From the Reality, or to scare other people off? :-) A bit of both!!! If you want to kill off a party, put on Zeit...unless there's some of that waccy baccy going about...*cough* ahem! I feel 'held' when I put on Exit. It's beauty is almost disconcerting. It's also an example of how sometimes 36 minutes is just long enough for an album... In these days of 70+ minute album on cd, it's amazing how many bands fall victim to the old adage 'never mind the quality, feel the width'. However, I think that with Mars Polaris and DM3, TD has escaped that trap. Cheers! Jonathan. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31886 Re: Mood-affecting albums TheInfection Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31888 Re: people artofvision01 Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31901 Re: Mood-affecting albums Deb H-J Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'goozergrafx' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 1:16 am Subject: Re: Origin of TD name Shhhhhh...man, you blew it! Now everyone will know the truth! I still can't believe how many people didn't know/wan't to believe that TD = took it's name from an acid tab.... *8ƒ --- In tadream@y..., 'Scott' wrote: > About two years ago I reported to the list that the proprietor of my > favorite local junkyard- er, used auto parts store, noticed my Tangerine > Dream T-shirt once when I was there and said it was indeed a variety of a= cid > he used to drop repeatedly in the '60s. > > Scott From: 'dreamstogo' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 8:29 am Subject: Re: techies I agree, Even if Klaus meant his remark to be humourous, it is still true (thank goodness) that we all come from different cultures with different histories ... and sense of humours! Let's live in peace and try to make a world in which everyone has free expression and liberty! Hilary --- In tadream@y..., 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > This too does not belong here. > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 12:27 AM > Subject: Re: [tadream] techies > > > > In a message dated 2/1/2002 2:10:46 AM Central Standard Time, > klaus@c... > > writes: > > > > > > > Of course, most of our list members are Americans, so the > > > typical attention span to expect is about 8 seconds, but... > > > ;-) ;-) ;-) > > > > > > klaus > > > > > > > *Oh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Dot ees zo funny. Here ees another funny ztory > > about > > ztupid people: > > > > Jerusalem - German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder accidentally extinguished > the > > eternal flame at Israel's Holocaust memorial that burns in memory of the > six > > million Jews exterminated by the Nazis, AFP correspondents said. > > > > The German leader, who is on a tour of the Middle East, turned the switch > the > > wrong way on the flame in the darkened boulder-lined Hall of Remembrance > at > > the Yad Vashem memorial in Jerusalem, they said. > > > > Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak tried in vain to relight the flame that > > burns near a crypt containing the ashes of Holocaust victims, and it was > only > > after a few minutes that it was reignited by a Yad Vashem employee with a > > cigarette lighter. > > > > Yad Vashem is the memorial to victims of the Holocaust, the Nazi German > > slaughter of six million Jews during World War II that led to the creation > of > > the Jewish state in 1948. The memorial is virtually an obligatory stop for > > official guests in Israel. > > > > 'Without knowledge of the past there is no way to a future,' Schroeder > wrote > > in the memorial's book of remembrance. He also laid a wreath in > commemoration > > of those killed. > > (AFP) > > > > Ah yez EET EES ZO FUNNY TO ZTEREOTYPE! > > Poly > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 10:01 am Subject: sorry... ... for my inappropriate 'attention span' comment. klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31871 Re: sorry... C. Chambers Sat 2/2/2002 2 KB 31874 Re: sorry... Admin Sun 2/3/2002 2 KB From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 10:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Addresses? You're right. I was even a bit shocked when I found out that our names are posted on the net for all to see. My girlfriend typed my name into the search engine, and it spat out lots of links to several websites that had all our contributions to the album discussions on this list on them. I wasn't aware this was happening. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Morgan Feldon' To: Sent: 01 February 2002 00:47 Subject: [tadream] Addresses? > Not sure about people's mailing addresses being revealed in the database to > any member. > > Shouldn't this information be private? I even worry a bit about full last > names being revealed but that's just me. :) > > -Morgan > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 10:30 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Gelsenkirchen - Dennis & Klaus Fine, except maybe that the Musiktheater tends to do opera rather than concerts. But this is a minor point. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: 31 January 2002 15:59 Subject: Re: [tadream] Gelsenkirchen - Dennis & Klaus > Dennis & Klaus. > > Pending confirmation from Dennis' aunt, would you say this is an appropriate entry for the concert? > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche, Buer-Hassel, Germany [11 Nov 81] - EF+CF+JS > _______ > __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ > Gelsenkirchen Musiktheater im Revier (Gelsenkirchen District Concert > Hall) production at Gemeindezentrum Lukaskirche (St. Luke's Church > Community Center), > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Please be critical... > > Thanks -- Mark > > Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > > > >You know a lot about Schalke country, Klaus. Where do you live? > > > > Near Stuttgart, but my uncle lives in GE and, more to the topic, > > Chris Horn grew up and still lived in GE while contributing to > > Dream Collector. > > > > Yes, the 'Musiktheater im Revier' is a concert hall in the > > south of GE, but from time to time they organise 'outside' > > shows and market them under their label. The TD concert > > was such an event. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 1:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums >If you want to kill off a party, put on Zeit...unless >there's some of that waccy baccy going about...*cough* >ahem! I don't get it, having only 17 years of life-experience and not much even in that... Though I don't probably even want to know. Err, just ignore this... >I feel 'held' when I put on Exit. It's beauty is >almost disconcerting. It's also an example of how >sometimes 36 minutes is just long enough for an >album... I don't see either how quantity could ever replace quality. Exit and its wonderful textures to which I easily sink within is an especially good example. And then there're of course Ricochet, Rubycon, Phaedra etc. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 1:25 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'In Memoriam' >''In Memoriam' is a DTS track and can only be heard with a proper >installation'. The words 'in memoriam' suddendly caugth my attention. I have a 2-albums-on-one-CD sampler from a rather unknown Russian 80s EM band called Zodiak, and the first album out of the two is also called 'In Memoriam'. Does anyone know anything about this band, for I know very little.. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 1:52 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ UPDATES Hey Joe -- I've been away from my e-mail for the last few days (and have been admitably lazy in the previous weeks); can you squeeze me in as a: Leaf, Redbook, Atlanta, GA, moxica@m... If not, I'll understand, too. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: Joe Shoults [mailto:jshoults@f...] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 6:01 PM To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] FINAL CALL FOR TANGERINE TREE ENTRIES/ UPDATES sorry- you must have looked right before I put it up. try again. I made note of your info, Uwe. thanks. > -----Original Message----- > From: herold.u@t... [mailto:herold.u@t...] > > > Hi Joe, > > the link > http://www.tadream.net/tree/treefinal.htm > doesn't work (?) > > I'd sign up as a branch for '5' (redbook) . I'll ship oversea too - no > problem. > > My address (to complete my datas): > Uwe Herold > Wölbattendorfer Weg 51 > 95030 Hof > Germany > > cheers, > Uwe ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 1:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Mood-affecting albums >Exit is calming and thoughtful. An image often appears >when I'm listening to Exit and Remote Viewing tracks: >raining in the giant empty city at night. The title track also evokes images of nighttime rain to me, but not in a city - rather a certain road near where the suburbs start to fade into countryside. A symbol of being far from home. Remote Viewing is to me like staring to the horizon just after sunset, when everything starts dimming.. >But I always listen to >it beginning with 'Pilots...' . If you hate the vocals of Kiew Mission, just skip over them and listen the rest of the track. It's brilliant! >Sometimes it's last few minutes (Cool At Heart really >reverses the whole Melrose album) but often happens in >the middle. Yes, some albums do have 'twists in the plot' but I mean that the last impression an album leaves you depends heavily on the last section. At least my impressions do. Perhaps you still are in mood of a previous section when it's gone a long time ago, but I really am not. Note that I'm speaking of the feeling you have _immediately_ after the album ends, not the one you have after some two hours or so. >For example the don-don-don-don section >saves Ricochet part 2; If you ask me it's more like the opposite. >And unpleasant voices spoil >the mood of Tangram set 2, and because set 2 goes >after set 1, positive effect of set 1 is reduced >heavily. Unpleasant voices... exactly. The weird-howling-voices -section around 16-17 mins is awful and the 2nd quarter (up to the small rhytmless bridge) with its hecticness and too contrastful voices also easily starts annoying. Aluckily the sweet outro saves the track. >That's strange. I'm listening to this album so often >only because of a masterpiece Mojave Plan. Midnight >and Convention are just weak tracks and White Eagle is >too short and somehow funny because of the 'ta-ta-ta' >in the middle. > >AoV Quite true, but you can't say Mojave Plan would be relaxing. White Eagle _is_ too short however. John Vertical NP: you. I wonder if I should too get a 'title track'? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31868 Re: Mood-affecting albums Dennis Nigbur Sat 2/2/2002 3 KB 31869 Re: Mood-affecting albums Marcel Engels Sat 2/2/2002 3 KB 31889 Re: Mood-affecting albums artofvision01 Mon 2/4/2002 4 KB 31890 Re: Using TD track names artofvision01 Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Mood-affecting albums On 2 Feb 2002 at 15:53, John Vertical wrote: > Unpleasant voices... exactly. The weird-howling-voices -section around > 16-17 mins is awful and the 2nd quarter (up to the small rhytmless > bridge) with its hecticness and too contrastful voices also easily > starts annoying. Aluckily the sweet outro saves the track. It doesn't spoil the album for me at all. I quite like the voices, but I'd have to listen to the '2nd quarter' again before I can judge on what you're saying. Tangram, to me, is one of the albums you mention that morph through a series of moods and melodies, and that part of the album works just as well as any other. I think Tangram is a beautiful compromise between the elaboration on a single mood familiar from earlier TD and the medley-type dovetailing of motifs from the late 80s onwards. Dennis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31869 Re: Mood-affecting albums Marcel Engels Sat 2/2/2002 3 KB From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 3:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Mood-affecting albums > From: Dennis Nigbur [mailto:Dennis@m...] > > On 2 Feb 2002 at 15:53, John Vertical wrote: > > > Unpleasant voices... exactly. The weird-howling-voices -section around > > 16-17 mins is awful and the 2nd quarter (up to the small rhytmless > > bridge) with its hecticness and too contrastful voices also easily > > starts annoying. Aluckily the sweet outro saves the track. > > It doesn't spoil the album for me at all. I quite like the > voices, but I'd > have to listen to the '2nd quarter' again before I can judge on what > you're saying. Tangram, to me, is one of the albums you mention that > morph through a series of moods and melodies, and that part of the > album works just as well as any other. I think Tangram is a beautiful > compromise between the elaboration on a single mood familiar from > earlier TD and the medley-type dovetailing of motifs from the late 80s > onwards. I think it's a wonderful part of Tangram...it's part of TD's music back then. They should have made more albums like Tangram back then, a good amount of weirdness and melody. Sadly the weirdness is gone. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 4:18 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Mood-affecting albums > > It doesn't spoil the album for me at all. I quite like the > > voices, but I'd > > have to listen to the '2nd quarter' again before I can judge on what > > you're saying. Tangram, to me, is one of the albums you mention that > > morph through a series of moods and melodies, and that part of the > > album works just as well as any other. I think Tangram is a beautiful > > compromise between the elaboration on a single mood familiar from > > earlier TD and the medley-type dovetailing of motifs from the late 80s > > onwards. > >I think it's a wonderful part of Tangram...it's part of TD's >music back then. >They should have made more albums like Tangram back then, a good >amount of weirdness and melody. Sadly the weirdness is gone. > >Marcel I guess calling the 16-17min part 'awful' was too critical - I just didn't invent a suitable word. It's definetly however not among the best of TD's spacey sections. I've never really liked it but not hated either. The '2nd quarter' is the section with the guitar and the same basic rhytm as in Pergamon part 1. It's not downright bad, but very annoying to listen tired: it'll be just unharmonic and noisy. No constructive energy. When on a suitable mood it can however be pretty good. Tangram as whole is a wonderful album, I've never denied that. The symphonic structure has both its pros and cons; it has plenty of things to show and the structure can be brilliant, but a single motif can sound too short as is the case with eg. the piano part on Set 1. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 5:18 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] sorry... > > ... for my inappropriate 'attention span' comment. > > klaus eh...ummm...what was that you were talking about again?? Craig (from the U.S. of....hmmm, where was I going with this?...did someone say go 'Patriots'?) From: 'vic rek' Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 8:46 pm Subject: Ship Your Boots to Berlin I had a big laugh at the US post office today. They hung a new poster saying: 'Ship Your Boots to Berlin. On Time.' Below the slogan it read 'Global Express Guaranteed 2 Day'. The poster shows a man opening an express package that contains cowboy boots :-)) I thought this service may be helpful for the Tangerine Dream CD-R Tree effort ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Feb 2, 2002 10:16 pm Subject: [tree] Inferno front cover Hi folks, I've just finished working on the Inferno front cover, and I've put a JPEG on our tadream/files folder for you to see. I hope you like it. -GJ going to the back cover Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 2:25 am Subject: Re: [tadream] sorry... Klaus Speaking for myself, accepted. I look forward to reading many more informative post from you on TD. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Klaus Beschorner' To: 'tadream list (mod)' Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 2:01 AM Subject: [tadream] sorry... > ... for my inappropriate 'attention span' comment. > > klaus > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 3:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Sounscapes lineup -----Original Message----- From: Liondream@a... >That's a pretty impressive list with just those names there, and would >definitely make it worth the effort of getting out to Philly. I've been >wanting to make it out to the Brandywine Museum and the Wyeth Studio (kind of >a pilgrimage), so I'll definitely have to give this some serious thought. >In a message dated 1/29/2002 9:48:07 PM Central Standard Time, >tadream@yahoogroups.com writes: >> And don't forget the Gatherings in Philly... This seasons schedule includes >> Robert Rich, Erik Wollo, and Steve Roach... It could be worth the >> drive...even from Chicago... >> MJ (a former Chicagoan who misses hearing 'real' blues) Wes, Please note that MJ was talking about the Gathering in Philly, a well established concert series run by Chuck van Zyl, not Soundscapes, my new, yet to be established concert series in the Lehigh Valley. (I'm looking at your Subject and wondering if something confused you.) Cheers, Bill From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:14 am Subject: [tree] the first 3 covers well folks, I'm glad to announce that I've finished the work on my covers for this first batch of the Tangerine Tree, which are the covers of Volumes 1,2 and 3. The Bernau 2001 covers were already there, and I've uploaded the covers for volume 1 (nottingham 76) and volume 2 (sheffield 74). These are not definitive, there can be details to be changed or corrected, and also they're a bit compressed, not the best quality. There's also the spine image thing. But you can see what they're probably going to be like. I hope you enjoy them! :) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31879 Re: [tree] the first 3 covers Mark Filipak Sun 2/3/2002 3 KB 31880 Re: [tree] the first 3 covers Gustavo Jobim Sun 2/3/2002 2 KB 31899 [tree] the first 3 covers Mark Filipak Mon 2/4/2002 3 KB From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 8:47 am Subject: rare item on ebay Hi all. follow the link: http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1508992930&r=0&t=0&showTut\ orial=0&ed=1013089457&indexURL=0&rd=1 Maxi CD, Sueno Latino , ZYX GDC 2099-8 , still sealed , with Manuel Goettsching`s Winter Version (fantastic) , Tracklist: SUENO LATINO, 10:35 Artist: SUENO LATINO, Music: The Paradise Version ; SUENO LATINO, 06:45 Artist: SUENO LATINO, Music: Dub Version By Cutmaster-G ; SUENO LATINO, 09:45 Artist: SUENO LATINO, Music: Winter Version (M. Goettsching) ; SUENO LATINO, 06:40 Artist: SUENO LATINO, Music: 1991Remix ; SUENO LATINO, 11:15 Artist: SUENO LATINO, Music: Illusion First Mix ; shipping costs: Germany US $ 2 / Europe: US $ 3 / World : US $ 5 airmail. heiko www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'fozziebear' Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 8:49 am Subject: Ship your boots to Berlin A poster has been going up around town that is blue with a triangle in a circle. It reminds me of the White Eagle logo. The poster is advertising Alcoholics Anonymous! David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31881 Wanted: Used Tickets, Backstage Passes, Posters Jeffrey Au Yeung Sun 2/3/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 2:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] the first 3 covers Where are these covers, Gus? Where is 'there'. -- Mark Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > well folks, I'm glad to announce that I've finished the work on my covers for this first batch of the Tangerine Tree, which are the covers of Volumes 1,2 and 3. The Bernau 2001 covers were already there, and I've uploaded the covers for volume 1 (nottingham 76) and volume 2 (sheffield 74). These are not definitive, there can be details to be changed or corrected, and also they're a bit compressed, not the best quality. There's also the spine image thing. But you can see what they're probably going to be like. I hope you enjoy them! :) > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31880 Re: [tree] the first 3 covers Gustavo Jobim Sun 2/3/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 4:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] the first 3 covers At the list's files folder, at www.yahoogroups.com/group/tadream/files . >Where are these covers, Gus? Where is 'there'. -- Mark Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: Jeffrey Au Yeung Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 5:43 pm Subject: Wanted: Used Tickets, Backstage Passes, Posters I have a list of used (TD, prog, hard rock, pop) CDs that I can offer to swap for (un)used tickets, posters and backstage passes of TD concerts. If you have something to offer, pls contact me privately at 220Volt@i... and I will send you my list of approximate 50 CDs. Thanks Jeffrey _______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com.hk address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Sun Feb 3, 2002 11:16 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Define CF shortly Okay, this'll be a rather rambling response (but, hey, I'm a Ramblin' Guy...) to the question. I can't define Franke's music in a few words because he's been all over the place musically. In TD, I tend to think of him as the chief 'gearhead' -- he's the one who could take a piece of equipment, tear it down, and make it do what he wanted. Whereas Froese is/was the big-picture visionary for the group and the sound, Franke was the one who was reponsible for crafting many of the tools that gave them that sound. Since leaving TD, Franke seems to have been swallowed by the Hollywood soundtrack machine and there's been a lot released by him that hasn't been soundtrack based. Pacific Coast Highway was a romantically-tinged concept piece which is quite good, but left me concerned that he might be taking the Yanni road of solo career. Klemania was a mix of soundtrack work and original material -- pretty good sequences worked in there, but overall still pretty mainstream. Celestine Prophecy was more of an orchestral piece with vocal sampling but I feel it to be the best completely original work he's done with Perry Rhodan a very close second (where a lot of B5 themes were fully realized). It's nothing like TD, but it's good stuff, in my opinion. But Franke has been doing soundtrack work for almost 12 years now, and he seems to be sitting in place, recognition wise. In the past decade, we've seen composers like Revell, Zimmer, and Rabin come from similar starting points and work their way up to some major titles. While I don't think Franke is in the same league as Goldsmith or Williams (let's not mention Horner -- this isn't rec.music.movies), but I feel that he's on similar footing as the other three mentioned above. Is it a matter of him not having the right connections, or did he tick someone off? Maybe he put too many eggs in the B5 basket... - jim From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 2:44 am Subject: [tadream] [tree] cover for vol 4 Lagging behind Gustavo (damn this flu), I've finished the cover for volume 4 of the tree and it's available for a sneak peek here: www.maff.da.ru/treeart.htm Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31884 Re: [tree] cover for vol 4 John Marchington Mon 2/4/2002 3 KB From: 'John Marchington' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:01 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] cover for vol 4 Nice one. Maff. One small query. How about the album info on the right hand spine for the rear cover graphics? I assume that was just overlooked. The front cover looks superb -- and I've just been and had a look at Gustavo's and I really like his too. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 3:44 PM Subject: [tadream] [tree] cover for vol 4 > Lagging behind Gustavo (damn this flu), I've finished the cover for volume 4 > of the tree and it's available for a sneak peek here: > > www.maff.da.ru/treeart.htm > > Maff > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: TheInfection Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 6:35 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Cyclone I have the lyrics and I think he says something like 'time will slide' rather but anyway, if you can't find them anywhere, I can always post them here. Cyclone is a great album. My favourite must be Bent Cold Sidewalk (which IMO tells a story, how natures can overcome those bent cold sidewalks). Regards, TheInfection --- John Vertical wrote: > I recently bought this and want now say something > about it. > > The intro in Bent Cold Sidewalk is a strange one, > but in a good way. After > that the main theme is catchy, perhaps too poppy but > othervise great. > Jollife's vocals are funny, surreal and sort of > philosophical; not exactly > perfection but not far either. Here's by the way how > I heard the first 4 > lines on the first time: > 'On this key, time will smile > Youngens' love, lose your mind > A desert dawn became sober > A Russian sound is bound inside' > Even werider than what they actually are. The middle > section has some > resemblance sequence-vise to the time-vise > corresponding section of Force > Majeure, ad it has an unique desolate feeling. The > chorus gets some extra > edge from the additional horn this time around, and > the rest goes quite > logically. > > Rising Runner Missed By Endless Sender (where the > heck do they invent track > names like that from?) has a good background but not > much other highlights. > Its length is just fine; any more would begin to get > boring. > > (Side Question: is it Klaus Krüger on the drums or > not? I've heard both > statements..) > > Madrigal Meridian is nigthmarish. I don't mean it's > bad, I mean it's rather > like a soundtrack to a nightmare. Something you > definetly shouldn't listen > to while reading a thriller at midnight. The raw > intro already is promising, > the energetic main sequence(s) in all its metallic > grindingness is great and > the melodies grasp one within. The fake intro once > again reminds of Force > Majeure. Then the last flute-frosted sequence is > incredibly sweet, I want > more! The very end then feels like a gag... > > John Vertical ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: TheInfection Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 6:39 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums --- Jonathan Holt wrote: > A bit of both!!! > If you want to kill off a party, put on > Zeit...unless > there's some of that waccy baccy going > about...*cough* > ahem! Well, Zeit doesn't work if you're guests are sober. If they aren't, then they will start to dance. And you can play Zeit as loud as you want. If neigbours come and complain, you can always say that you are using your vacuum cleaner. ;-) Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31888 Re: people artofvision01 Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31901 Re: Mood-affecting albums Deb H-J Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'Yannick EDOM' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 7:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Hi there > You can read also: > > ''In Memoriam' is a DTS track and can only be heard with a proper > installation'. > > Does it mean that this track won't play at all on a conventional CD > player? I don't have a home theater amplifier with Dolby AC and DTS, and > I'd rather have an 'ordinary' track that I can play, than a DTS track > that I can't play at all. Also, if I can't play the track, how can I be > sure that I've received a good CDR and how can I test the copy I made > for my branch? > The DTS track can only be heard with any player (CD, LD or DVD) with a digital output (generally optical) connected to a home theater amplifier (with DTS decoding of course). So the track can be heard through 6 seperate channels. But if you have not this installtion, you will be abble to discover the whole track in normal stereo in the Olyam website soon. www.olyam.com You can hear short audio clips (real audio) in the Joe Shoults' www.tadream.net website Friendly from France Yannick Edom Mirage Créations Champlain B7 A 101 47 Chemin de Pelleport 31500 TOULOUSE FRANCE e-mail : yannick.edom@s... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31898 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Michael W Daniels Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31902 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Dave Brewer Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31911 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Yannick EDOM Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31912 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Yannick EDOM Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31924 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Antonio Nunes Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31932 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Yannick EDOM Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'artofvision01' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 12:09 pm Subject: Re: people > Well, Zeit doesn't work if you're guests are sober. If > they aren't, then they will start to dance. And you > can play Zeit as loud as you want. If neigbours come > and complain, you can always say that you are using > your vacuum cleaner. ;-) > > Regards, > TheInfection > > Hmm, that's strange. When I'm listening to TD loudly in someone's presence, people usually make me to swith the music off. Sometimes even headphones cant help: when people want to talk to you or just ask something, they don't wait but do it immediately. It's so easy to spoil everything when you are deep in some long TD track:( That's why I almost never listen to it at school:(( AoV From: 'artofvision01' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 12:30 pm Subject: Re: Mood-affecting albums > > > >But I always listen to > >it beginning with 'Pilots...' . > > > If you hate the vocals of Kiew Mission, just skip over them and listen the > rest of the track. It's brilliant! > The rest of the track? Well, it's dark too but not as impressive as Exit. > > >Sometimes it's last few minutes (Cool At Heart really > >reverses the whole Melrose album) but often happens in > >the middle. > > > Yes, some albums do have 'twists in the plot' but I mean that the last > impression an album leaves you depends heavily on the last section. At least > my impressions do. Perhaps you still are in mood of a previous section when > it's gone a long time ago, but I really am not. That's true but you listen to the last part in context of all album so other parts have their effect. And sometimes the last section is so unremarkable comparing to the previous (like Dominion). > Note that I'm speaking of the feeling you have _immediately_ after the album > ends, not the one you have after some two hours or so. > After two hours I'm usually listening to some quite different album:)) But if speaking of a last one in a row then I usually remember one piece of music which again and again plays itself in my head; when my attention turns to something else, I forget it and then it might appear again. > > >For example the don-don-don-don section > >saves Ricochet part 2; > > > If you ask me it's more like the opposite. > For me it gives brightness to this album, otherwise it would be too monotonous > > >And unpleasant voices spoil > >the mood of Tangram set 2, and because set 2 goes > >after set 1, positive effect of set 1 is reduced > >heavily. > > > Unpleasant voices... exactly. The weird-howling-voices -section around 16-17 > mins is awful and the 2nd quarter (up to the small rhytmless bridge) with > its hecticness and too contrastful voices also easily starts annoying. > Aluckily the sweet outro saves the track. > No, outro is horrible. In this track I like only living middle sections which have a lot of my favourite 'waiting effect'. > > >That's strange. I'm listening to this album so often > >only because of a masterpiece Mojave Plan. Midnight > >and Convention are just weak tracks and White Eagle is > >too short and somehow funny because of the 'ta-ta-ta' > >in the middle. > > > >AoV > > > Quite true, but you can't say Mojave Plan would be relaxing. I didn't do it. On the opposite, it's very energetic. Easy to concentrate on it's booming rhytm. AoV From: 'artofvision01' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 12:40 pm Subject: Re: Using TD track names > > NP: you. I wonder if I should too get a 'title track'? > :):):) Actually I use my favourite TD track or album names alot. Pilots Of Purple Twilight, Exit, Stereolight, Remote Viewing, Dr.Destructo, Twilight Brigade, Sorcerer, Angst(that's KS) - by the time I used all of this for naming various things. And for myself Art Of Vision AoV From: Liondream@a... Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:05 pm Subject: Gathering lineup confusion Oh man, you're right! It's that short attention span thing!!! :-) But mostly too much beer coupled with lots of sequences spinning around in my head - not much room for anything else in there... Thanks! <<< Wes, Please note that MJ was talking about the Gathering in Philly, a well established concert series run by Chuck van Zyl, not Soundscapes, my new, yet to be established concert series in the Lehigh Valley. (I'm looking at your Subject and wondering if something confused you.) Cheers, Bill>>> From: olle.rundgren@s... Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:16 pm Subject: TD-tree artwork I had a look at the artwork-suggestions of Gustavo, Jerome and Matt. Good work, it's a great idea with more than one contributor. Just one objection/suggestion or whatever You prefer to call it: Why not use the same font on all covers? Using the same type of text will tie it all together better. /Olle Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31896 Re: TD-tree artwork Gustavo Jobim Mon 2/4/2002 2 KB 31921 Re: TD-tree artwork peter.stoeferle@t... Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31930 Re: TD-tree artwork Matthew Sawyer Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31933 Re: TD-tree artwork olle.rundgren@s... Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31934 Re: TD-tree artwork Gustavo Jobim Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: people >Hmm, that's strange. When I'm listening to TD loudly in someone's >presence, people usually make me to swith the music off. Sometimes >even headphones cant help: when people want to talk to you or just >ask something, they don't wait but do it immediately. It's so easy to >spoil everything when you are deep in some long TD track:( That's why >I almost never listen to it at school:(( > >AoV I agree, this sort of music requires concentration. Or either a good knowledge of how the piece goes so your mind can 'fill in the gaps'. I quite often do listen TD in school, well, except after my headphones broke :*( But you're yet another student? How come I didn't already know this? John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'John Vertical' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Using TD track names >Actually I use my favourite TD track or album names alot. Pilots Of >Purple Twilight, Exit, Stereolight, Remote Viewing, Dr.Destructo, >Twilight Brigade, Sorcerer, Angst(that's KS) - by the time I used all >of this for naming various things. > >And for myself Art Of Vision > >AoV Wow, that's quite a lot of names. Where do you get enough things to be named? Do you give TD names also to your pets, pocket knife, shoes or what? -Oh well. I've been also using TD track names in places where no-one is going to ever find them, for instance there're now certain custom levels that're called 'Green Desert' or 'Cloudburst Flight' etc., in a certain game. What kind of funny places do you use? I wonder what unused good tracknames there are left at all? Any infernally long (Mysterious Semblance at the Strand of Nightmares, Origin of Supernatural Probabilities) or phrase-like (Too Hot For My Chinchilla, Invisible Limits) ones don't suit. I don't either want to be known as 'Betrayal' or something so I guess I'll have to choose between Hyperborea and Fauni-Gena... (BTW, I think that the latter's a park in Berlin, near the original Zodiak club where Eddie started his career; am I right?) Or why would I in the first place need an own trackname after all..? Project abandoned. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31955 Re: Using TD track names richter_arne Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 5:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Mood-affecting albums >The rest of the track? Well, it's dark too but not as impressive as >Exit. With the 'rest' I mean rather the intro and the short climax. The slow ambient 2nd half (I prefer to call it 'Aurora Dance') is not bad but not the greatest one either. >But if speaking of a last one in a row then I usually remember one >piece of music which again and again plays itself in my head; when my >attention turns to something else, I forget it and then it might >appear again. Encountered that too; I've found myself humming the last two mellotron chords of Monolight nonstop for days... Which is actually rather pleasant when compared to that a few years ago a certain overmerry Christmas carol was playing in my head for weeks. >No, outro is horrible. In this track I like only living middle >sections which have a lot of my favourite 'waiting effect'. Opinions, opinions. There's something in the melody that's somehow ... well, Remote. With the capital R. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 12:25 am Subject: Re: TD-tree artwork The artwork for the first batch, 8 volumes, 10 CDRs, is being done by myself, and Maff and Marko. We agreed on the layout you can see on Maff's page and on my works; it's the same layout only with different artworks. Did you mean using the same font all over the place? I'm not sure that would work... maybe it's just a matter of taste. > I had a look at the artwork-suggestions of Gustavo, Jerome and Matt. Good > work, it's a great idea with more than one contributor. > Just one objection/suggestion or whatever You prefer to call it: Why not use > the same font on all covers? Using the same type of text will tie it all > together better. > > /Olle From: 'Owens, James' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 8:31 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Inferno Hi Ed, Welcome to the list. I haven't seen any word about Inferno here in the US. Anybody else? James > -----Original Message----- > From: edmorrisuk [mailto:edmorrisuk@y...] > > Just received the latest listing from Compact Disc Services in > Dundee. 'Inferno' is listed at £12.99 - says its due out in Feb. > Anyone else know if this is correct?. > Ed From: Michael W Daniels Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 10:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) At 08:34 AM 2/4/2002 +0100, you wrote: >The DTS track can only be heard with any player (CD, LD or DVD) with a >digital output (generally optical) connected to a home theater amplifier >(with DTS decoding of course). >So the track can be heard through 6 seperate channels. So is the track invisible to a normal CD player, or will it just sound strange? -- Michael W. Daniels | 'The thunder was ominous-sounding, much daniels@l... | like the sound of a thin sheet of metal Department of Linguistics | being shaken backstage during the storm 218 Oxley Hall | scene in a play.' From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 11:18 pm Subject: [tree] the first 3 covers Thanks Gus. They are very beautiful, especially #2.!.! One suggestion: Use white bordered lettering with black fill to improve readability against all sorts of backgrounds. You might make the smaller lettering on the front a point size larger too. Fantastic!! Ciao -- Mark Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > At the list's files folder, at www.yahoogroups.com/group/tadream/files . > > >Where are these covers, Gus? Where is 'there'. -- Mark > > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where Osama is? From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 12:08 am Subject: [tree] tree structure status report almost there... a few last minute stragglers, and a couple of tweaks... should be up tonight! Joe From: Deb H-J Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 1:39 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums By sheer coincidence, I like to listen to Zeit while I am using the vaccuum cleaner. Like...*serendipity*... You can tell an old hippy, but you can't tell her much +;o} > Well, Zeit doesn't work if you're guests are sober. > If > they aren't, then they will start to dance. And you > can play Zeit as loud as you want. If neigbours come > and complain, you can always say that you are using > your vacuum cleaner. ;-) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com From: 'Dave Brewer' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 2:38 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) >The DTS track can only be heard with any player (CD, LD or DVD) with a >digital output (generally optical) connected to a home theater amplifier >(with DTS decoding of course). >So the track can be heard through 6 seperate channels. >But if you have not this installtion, you will be abble to discover the >whole track in normal stereo in the Olyam website soon. >www.olyam.com > Hi Everyone, That's too bad about this track. I'd imagine that most everyone that will have a copy of the set will not have the setup to play the last track. I myself just 'inherited' a DTS receiver from a friend who ugraded his. But it's a moot point, as the only player I have with a digital out, my DVD player, can not read CDR's. I hope the track will be available at least to download as an MP3 so I can convert it to a wave and re-burn the second disc... Regards, Dave From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 2:56 am Subject: Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' I don't want to alarm anybody but I felt compelled to write in about the following. When the discussion on KS's later compositions took place last month, I wrote in and mentioned that I had most of them. At that stage I couldn't have played the 2-CD set of 'Das Wagner Desaster' which I had recently purchased. I was in for a shock when I played the first CD -- my portable Sony player went crazy at about 27:24 in the 'Nietzsche' track (2) of disc 1. The panel display light went out and all track and time information disappeared. The musical phrase then continued to play over and over. When played on a player with better error-correction, there were small audible glitches starting at about the same time but they were still annoying, nevertheless. I've sent the set back to the US supplier who has played it and confirmed my experience. He has also played the other five sets he has in stock -- and has reported that they are all the same! Amazingly, he mentioned that he has sold about 20 sets during the past 3 - 6 months AND NOT ONE OTHER PERSON HAS COMPLAINED OF A PROBLEM! There's clearly a mastering problem here but that still doesn't necessarily mean of course that EVERY copy is going to be faulty.My set was a German pressing from ZYX, with catalogue number ZYX 90000-2. It doesn't appear as if anyone else has pressed it. The questions I am about to ask are obvious: Do any others have this set and, if so, it is OK during that track? If it is, where was it purchased? The rest of the first disc and the entire second are fine, by the way. Any assistance is appreciated. I'm concerned that I might not be able to get a good copy of the set and I rate it an excellent album. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31904 Re: Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' odean@m... Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31905 Re: Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' John Marchington Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31906 Re: Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' C. Chambers Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB From: odean@m... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 6:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' At 03:56 PM 2/5/02 +1300, you wrote: >I was in for a shock when I played the first CD -- my portable >Sony player went crazy at about 27:24 in the 'Nietzsche' track (2) of disc >1. The panel display light went out and all track and time information >disappeared. The musical phrase then continued to play over and over. > >The questions I am about to ask are obvious: Do any others have this set >and, if so, it is OK during that track? If it is, where was it purchased? >The rest of the first disc and the entire second are fine, by the way. I have this same set and it plays fine on both discs. Mine is also on ZYX. I can't remember for sure where I got it from but I think it was Eurock. Oscar http://www.TheVirtualBiz.com/ From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 3:38 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' Thanks Oscar. The mystery deepens. I definitely purchased my set from Eurock -- and I've already mentioned what Archie Patterson has told me both about the other sets he has in stock and previous sets he has sold. I'll write and tell him about your comments. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' > At 03:56 PM 2/5/02 +1300, you wrote: > >I was in for a shock when I played the first CD -- my portable > >Sony player went crazy at about 27:24 in the 'Nietzsche' track (2) of disc > >1. The panel display light went out and all track and time information > >disappeared. The musical phrase then continued to play over and over. > > > >The questions I am about to ask are obvious: Do any others have this set > >and, if so, it is OK during that track? If it is, where was it purchased? > >The rest of the first disc and the entire second are fine, by the way. > > I have this same set and it plays fine on both discs. Mine is also on > ZYX. I can't remember for sure where I got it from but I think it was Eurock. > > Oscar > http://www.TheVirtualBiz.com/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:01 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Klaus Schulze's 'Das Wagner Desaster' John, I just listened to my copy, which is also ZYX-90000-2, and the whole first disc is fine. Listened to it on a Sony portable too... But, thanks for making me dig out this fantastic CD, which I haven't listened to in several years. Craig > > I don't want to alarm anybody but I felt compelled to write in about the > following. > > When the discussion on KS's later compositions took place last month, I > wrote in and mentioned that I had most of them. At that stage I couldn't > have played the 2-CD set of 'Das Wagner Desaster' which I had recently > purchased. I was in for a shock when I played the first CD -- my portable > Sony player went crazy at about 27:24 in the 'Nietzsche' track (2) of disc > 1. The panel display light went out and all track and time information > disappeared. The musical phrase then continued to play over and over. > > When played on a player with better error-correction, there were small > audible glitches starting at about the same time but they were still > annoying, nevertheless. > > I've sent the set back to the US supplier who has played it and > confirmed my > experience. He has also played the other five sets he has in stock -- and > has reported that they are all the same! Amazingly, he mentioned > that he has > sold about 20 sets during the past 3 - 6 months AND NOT ONE OTHER > PERSON HAS > COMPLAINED OF A PROBLEM! From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 4:31 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] CDR brands Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > >I know I saw some little program that would tell you this when you > >popped a blank in. > > CDR Identifier does this. You can find it at www.brennmeister.com > under 'Quick Downloads' > > You'll be surprised to find out how many 'brand name' CDRs > come out of the same two plants in Taiwan ;-) Well, I downloaded this program and I'm pretty mystified by it. 1 - 'I know I saw some little program...' -- where did this message come from? I searched all the messages in my computer and could not find this message. Oh, well. I assume that 'would tell you this' refers to the place the CDR was made -- at issue is the question: Taiwan, US, Japan, or Ireland? 2 - I ran the program, CDRIdentifier.exe, and it indentifies the following: ATIP: (whatever this is) Disc Manufacturer: (not the country) Recording layer: Media type: nominal Capacity: Recording Speeds: For example, for some CDRs that Heiko sent me... ATIP: 97m 28x 26f Disc Manufacturer: Multi Media Masters_Machinery SA Recording layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine) Media type: CD-Recordable nominal Capacity: 578.29MB (65m 49s 60f / LBA: 296085) Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown I don't know what to make of this, but it doesn't look like anything that can answer the question: Taiwan, US, Japan, or Ireland? Did I get the wrong program? Did I do something wrong? BTW: To use this program I had to hunt down and then load new ASPI drivers. This broke my burning program, which I then had to upgrade to make work again. All in all, I'd say that it wasn't worth it. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31909 Re: [tree] CDR brands C. Chambers Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31915 CDR brands / what's good for trading ? braddito Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31927 Re: CDR brands /Kodak Rolf Elfström Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 5:35 am Subject: Romancing the Stone I read a post here about a week ago that Michael Hoenig was somehow involved in the soundtrack for 'Romancing the Stone.' I watched the movie last night and I didn't see Hoenig mentioned in the credits. Where was he mentioned or is this incorrect? Vic From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 5:50 am Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] CDR brands Mark, I think you got the right program...just the disk you looked at desn't tell you much. Look at a Memorex, Imation, etc. or a generic and you will probably see RITEK as the Manufacturer. Mitsui will say Mitsui, HP or Fuji will say Taiyo-Yuden, etc. But yeah, if it caused all those problems, it probably wasn't worth it... Craig > 2 - I ran the program, CDRIdentifier.exe, and it indentifies the > following: > > ATIP: (whatever this is) > Disc Manufacturer: (not the country) > Recording layer: > Media type: > nominal Capacity: > Recording Speeds: > > For example, for some CDRs that Heiko sent me... > > ATIP: 97m 28x 26f > Disc Manufacturer: Multi Media Masters_Machinery SA > Recording layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine) > Media type: CD-Recordable > nominal Capacity: 578.29MB (65m 49s 60f / LBA: 296085) > Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown > > I don't know what to make of this, but it doesn't look like > anything that can answer the question: Taiwan, US, Japan, or Ireland? > > Did I get the wrong program? Did I do something wrong? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31915 CDR brands / what's good for trading ? braddito Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31927 Re: CDR brands /Kodak Rolf Elfström Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 6:23 am Subject: CD-R Dyes The most concise answer I've found on the types of dyes used in CDRs: http://www.kopyrite.com/cd/theory/cdr_dye.html -Morgan P.S. Taiyo-Yuden were the first people to mass-produce dye-based CD Recordable discs and still make the industry standard discs. From: 'Yannick EDOM' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 7:22 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Hi There >(...)> >So the track can be heard through 6 seperate channels. > > So is the track invisible to a normal CD player, or will it just sound strange? > The track is not invisible but it's a terrible sound because of the digital coding of the DTS format. The normal stereo track will be soon available on the Olyam Website. The DTS track is an experiment. Friendly from France Yannick Edom Mirage Créations Champlain B7 A 101 47 Chemin de Pelleport 31500 TOULOUSE FRANCE e-mail : yannick.edom@s... From: 'Yannick EDOM' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 7:25 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Hi > > That's too bad about this track. (...) I hope the track will be available at least to > download as an MP3 so I can convert it to a wave and re-burn the second > disc... > The normal stereo track will be soon available online through Olyam website. So you will be abble to get it entirely. The DTS track is an experiment. You can still discover an extract on the tadream.net website. Friendly from France Yannick Edom Mirage Créations Champlain B7 A 101 47 Chemin de Pelleport 31500 TOULOUSE FRANCE e-mail : yannick.edom@s... From: scfeldman@j... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 8:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Mood-affecting albums On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:30:58 -0000 'artofvision01' writes: For me, the single most mood-effecting Froese composition is 'Snake Bath' from the KAMIKAZE 1989 soundtrack. Stephe likes http://androgyne.0catch.com/body_of.htm - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part of my search in religion has been to find God buried under a heap of bigotry and hate like a diamond in a dung heap. -- Jim Costich, 1/19/2002 From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 8:48 am Subject: Final Tree Structure Posted! http://www.tadream.net/tree Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32054 Re: Final Tree Structure Posted! Adele Outland Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB 32055 Re: Final Tree Structure Posted! Matthew Sawyer Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32065 Re: Final Tree Structure Posted! Joe Shoults Sun 2/10/2002 4 KB From: 'braddito' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 8:49 am Subject: CDR brands / what's good for trading ? My local PC World (UK) has stopped stocking Kodak Gold/Silver at present, so I got some EMTec/ BASF for home use as I copy all incoming CDR's so I can keep the originals safe. Does anyone know if these are decent CDR's or not ? I saw that they had HP discs in stock but most packages don't give the country of manufacture, are they pretty certain to be made by Taiyo-Yuden (hence acceptable for trading ?) I need to be sure as I hope to start trading from my TD collection in the next few weeks and I don't want to send discs that are not acceptable to others. Regards Toby ------- Look at a Memorex, Imation, etc. or a generic and you will > probably see RITEK as the Manufacturer. Mitsui will say Mitsui, HP or Fuji > will say Taiyo-Yuden, etc. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31927 Re: CDR brands /Kodak Rolf Elfström Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 9:16 am Subject: [tadream] Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist Hi all, As Duncan McKee seems to have discovered a new fan tape, I thought it was about time that this list pulled together its collective might and tried to track down these elusive fan tapes that apparently don't exist. I have listed below all the concerts that as far as I know were never taped (and attached a text only file because I'm sure the list will be cut off after this introduction, WHY???!!!), so could all of you that have attended TD concerts out there, have a look at the list, if only one more recording is found this enormous post will have been worth it :-) Cheers Paul Date City & country Venue 1968 January ? Berlin, Germany Technische Hochschule (cafeteria) 1.TD- Aufritt ? Dusseldorf, Germany 'Creamcheese' Club September 26 ? Germany Festival 'Deutschland Erwacht - Popmusic aus deutschen Landen' ? Munich, Germany 'Blow up' ? Berlin, Germany 'Zodiac Club' & 'Litfass' & 'Sule' (different dates in summer 1968) ? Kassel, Germany 'Documenta IV' (Eroffnungskonsert mit Member Bernhard Hoke) ? Port Lligat, Spain Music z. Einweihung der 'Christus Statue' von Salvadore Dali ? Berlin, Germany Happenings in 'Forum Theatre Berlin' mit Bernhard Hoke ? Frankfurt, Germany Theater am Turm (TAT) 1969 October 11 Essen, Germany Pop & Blues Festival ? Frankfurt, Germany Magic Cave Club (several dates) 1970 ? Berlin, Germany Technische Universitat (Technical University) ? Frankfurt, Germany 'Experimenta' Messe ? Berlin, Germany (SFB - TV) - 'Konzert bei Hofe' (Haus 'ALT Bayern', Potsdamer Stn. 24) September 1 Berlin, Germany Haus der Jugend (Bocklerpark-19.30) October 10 Kapfenberg, Austria 'Flipper-Concert' (auch in Austria-TV) ? Berlin, Germany Zodiac Club ? Berlin, Germany Quasimodo 1971 June 7 Berlin, Germany Auditorium der Kongresshalle (Congress Hall Auditorium) (planned for Planetarium) ? Aachen, Germany University 1972 (German tour in November was cancelled) ? Vienna, Austria Concert House March 27 Berlin, Germany Schoneberg Planetarium (Kuppelhalle) July 7 Berlin, Germany University (Audimax) December 2 Berlin, Germany Akademie der Kunste (multi-media show) ? Brussels, Belgium 'Palais des Beaux Arts' Einladung Goethe-Institute ? Brussels, Belgium 'Deutsche Bibliothek' Einladung Goethe-Institute 1973 February 15 Paris, France Theatre de L' Ouest (with Ash Ra Tempel and Klaus Schulze) February 16 Paris, France Theatre de L' Ouest July 3 Lyon, France ? August 22 Paris, France (Froese, Franke, Schulze) August 24 La Rochelle, France (in an inflated warm air tent) August 25 Roanne, France 'L'Arc en Ciel' (The Rainbow) August 27 Ratingen, Germany 'Blauer See' ? Mönchengladbach, Germany Gymnasium 1974 April 9 (29?) London, England (BBC-FM) 'Top Gear' June 16 London, England Victoria Palace Theatre (the band's first U.K. concert) August 18 Chichester, England Festival Theatre October ? Dusseldorf, Germany ? 1974 British tour: October 26 London, England Rainbow Theatre November 4 Manchester, England FreeTrade Hall November 6 London, England North East Polytechnic November 8 Brighton, England The Dome November 9 Plymouth, England Guild Hall November 10 Paignton, England Festival Hall November 16 Cambridge, England Corn Exchange November 17 Guildford, England Civic Hall November 19 Edinburgh, Scotland Caley Cinema November 22 Southampton, England Southampton University November 23 Southend, England Kuursal Hall November 29 Cardiff, Wales Cardiff University November 30 Bristol, England Colston Hall December 1 Leicester, England De Montfort Hall December 4 Newcastle, England Newcastle City Hall 1975 Australian tour: March 16 Sydney, Australia Horden Pavillion March 18 Auckland, New Zealand Town Hall March 20 Brisbane, Australia Queensland University City Hall March 23 Canberra, Australia Lakeside Hotel March 26 Perth, Australia Winthrop University Hall March 27 Perth, Australia Winthrop University Hall April 25 Munich, Germany Saint Benno-Kirche September 14 Paris, France 'Fête de l'Humanité' September 26 Munich, Germany Kongressaal Deutsches Museum 1975 British tour: October 7 Norwich, England Saint Andreas Hall October 9 Sheffield, England Sheffield City Hall October 13 Oxford, England Oxford Polytechnic October 26 Birmingham, England Town Hall October 27 Sheffield, England Sheffield City Hall October 29 Bradford, England Saint Georges Hall December ? Munich, Germany Museum December ? ? Austria Unidentified concert dates December ? ? Switzerland Unidentified concert dates 1976 January 29 Barcelona, Spain Parbellon Departivo Club Juventus Barcelona 1976 EUROPEAN TOUR (Stratosfear) October 22 Hamburg, Germany Musikhalle October 22 Hamburg, Germany Musikhalle October 25 Stuttgart, Germany Liederhalle October 26 Frankfurt, Germany Jahrhunderthalle October 28 Erlangen, Germany Stadhalle October 30 Saarbrucken Germany Kongresshalle November 5 Manchester, England Free Trade Centre November 7 Coventry, England Coventry Theater November 10 Cardiff, Wales Capital Hall November 12 Birmingham, England Odeon Theatre November 20 Colmar, France ? November 23 Lyon, France ? November 24 Poitiers, France Les Arènes de Poitiers November 27 Madrid, Spain Deportiro Real Madrid November 29 Valencia, Spain Sala Albion December 1 Bordeaux, France ? 1977 ? Berlin, Germany Berlin Philharmonic 1977 NORTH AMERICAN TOUR (Stratosfear) April 1 Chicago, U.S.A. Aragon Ballroom April 6 Philadelphia, U.S.A. Tower Theater April 12 Chicoutimi, Canada Dufour Auditorium April 15 Hamilton, Canada Hamilton Place April 16 Ottawa, Canada Civic Center April 20 Portland, U.S.A. Paramount Theater April 25 San Francisco, U.S.A. Berkeley Community Theater July 9 San Diego, U.S.A. Civic Theater July 10 Tuscon, U.S.A. Community Theater July 14 Boulder, U.S.A. Mackey Auditorium (University of Colerado) August 1 Quebec City, Canada Convention Center August 2 Montreal, Canada Place des Nations August 4 Toronto, Canada Convocation Hall August 5 Toronto, Canada Convocation Hall August 6 Meadowbrook, U.S.A. Pine Knob August 7 Milwaukee, U.S.A. Performing Arts Center 1978 EUROPEAN TOUR (Cyclone) February 20 Offenbach, Germany Stadhalle February 21 Mannheim, Germany Musen Saal February 22 Munich, Germany Deutsches Museum February 23 Erlangen, Germany Stadhalle February 26 Nancy, France Foire des Expositions February 27 Reims, France Opera February 28 Rouen, France Parc des Expositions March 3 Dijon, France Palais des Congrès March 4 Lille, France Chapiteau Parking de la Foire International March 8 Bordeaux, France Chapiteau Campus de Talence March 9 Toulouse, France Parc des Expositions March 10 Pau, France Parc des Expositions March 11 Pamplona, Spain Pabellon Araitasuma March 15 Marseille, France Chapiteau March 19 Oxford, England New Theatre March 20 London, England Hammersmith Odeon March 21 Portsmouth, England Guild Hall March 22 Birmingham, England Birmingham Odeon March 27 Croydon, England Fairfield Hall 1980 EUROPEAN TOUR (Tangram) October 11 Kiel, Germany Ball Pompos October 12 Bremen, Germany Stadthalle October 14 Munich, Germany Deutsches Museum October 22 Barcelona, Spain ? October 23 Madrid, Spain ? October 25 Porto, Portugal ? October 26 Lisbon, Portugal Pavilhao dos Belenenses November 3 Glasgow, Scotland Apollo Theatre November 4 Edinburgh, Scotland Odeon Theatre November 11 Portsmouth, England Guild Hall November 13 Ipswich, England Gaumont Theatre 1981 EUROPEAN TOUR January 20 Essen, Germany Grugahalle January 22 Mannheim, Germany Mozartsaal January 23 Kassel, Germany Stadthalle January 28 Erlangen, Germany Stadtalle January 29 Wurzburg, Germany Kurnachtalhalle February 10 Udine, Italy ? February 11 Padua, Italy ? February 12 Turin, Italy ? 1981 BRITISH OCTOBER TOUR (Exit) October 19 Cork, Ireland James Connolly Hall October 21 Birmingham, England Birmingham Odeon October 23 Derby, England Assembly Rooms 1982 AUSTRALIAN TOUR (Exit or White Eagle?) February 24 Adelaide, Australia Thebarton Town Hall February 26 Perth, Australia Concert Hall 1982 EUROPEAN TOUR (White Eagle) October 19 Budapest, Hungary Sports Hall (lst show - afternoon, cancelled) October 22 Zagreb, Yugoslavia Sports Hall October 23 Belgrade, Yugoslavia Pioneer Hall October 24 Novisad, Yugoslavia Itala Sport October 26 Stuttgart, Germany Liederhalle November 14 Hamburg, Germany Congres Centrum Hamburg November 19 Rostock, East Germany Sport-Kongresshalle November 20 Rostock, East Germany Sport-Kongresshalle November 21 Rostock, East Germany Sport-Kongresshalle November 22 Suhl, East Germany ? November 23 Erfurt, East Germany ? November 24 Gera, East Germany Haus der Kultur, Grosser Saal November 25 Karl Marx Stadt, East Germany ? 1983 JAPANESE TOUR (White Eagle?) June 26 Nagoya, Japan ? August 31 Athens, Greece Lycabettus Theatre September ? Athens, Greece TV broadcast of concert and interview by Omiros Karajas November 28 Magdeburg, German Democratic Republic Stadthalle December 9 Poznai, Poland Arena December 11 Zabrze, Poland Hala Sportowa KWK'Makoszowy' (2 shows) December 12 ¸Ódè, Poland Hala Sportowa December 14 Opole Hala Sportowa December 15 Wroc¸aw, Poland Hala Ludowa December ? Wismar, East Germany ? 1986 EUROPEAN TOUR (Underwater Sunlight) March 15 Ipswich, England Gaumont Theatre March 25 Bristol, England Hippodrome 1986 NORTH AMERICAN TOUR (Underwater Sunlight) June 4 Sante Fe, U.S.A. Palo Soleri Amphitheater June 7 Phoenix, U.S.A. Mesa Amphitheater June 16 Minneapolis, U.S.A. The Orpheum 1988 NORTH AMERICAN TOUR (Optical Race) August 29 Pittsburg, U.S.A. Benedum Theater September 13 Atlanta, U.S.A. Center Stage Theater September 15 Miami, U.S.A. Cameo Theater (originally scheduled for the Sunrise Musical Theatre in Fort Lauderdale, but this was damaged by Hurricane Florence) September 17 Houston, U.S.A. Jones Hall 1992 6 October Quebec City, Canada Grand Theatre 7 October New Britain, Connecticut, U.S.A. The Sting 11 October Pittsburgh, U.S.A. ? 18 October Minneapolis, U.S.A. ? 22 October Denver, U.S.A. ? 24 October Portland, U.S.A. ? 27 October San Francisco, U.S.A. ? 29 October Scottsdale, Arizona, U.S.A. Civic Center Amphitheater (outdoor concert) 1994 6 March Desenzano Sul Garde, Garda Lake, Italy 'Sesto Senso' Club (TV interview and video film only, not a concert) 1995 15 June Milan, Italy 'Tutti Frutti' open air disco (press interviews and video film only, not a concert) 1997 9 April Vienna, Austria Museumquartier 10 April Filderstadt, Stuttgart, Germany Filharmonie 17 April Hannover, Germany Musikhalle 19 April Brussels, Belgium L'Anciènne Belgique 24 April Prague, Czech Republic Sky Club Brumlovka     1997 UK 'Tournado' tour 29 October Bristol, England Colston Hall 2 November Leeds, England Town and Country Club 3 November Birmingham, England Symphony Hall 2000 28 Oct Berlin, Germany 'Kalkscheune' (dance event and 'Ground Liftaz' label launch with Jerome Froese appearing as a guest DJ. Not a concert, but unreleased material was played at this event) ---------- Date City & country Venue 1968 January ? Berlin, Germany Technische Hochschule (cafeteria) 1.TD- Aufritt ? Dusseldorf, Germany 'Creamcheese' Club September 26 ? Germany Festival 'Deutschland Erwacht - Popmusic aus deutschen Landen' ? Munich, Germany 'Blow up' ? Berlin, Germany 'Zodiac Club' & 'Litfass' & 'Sule' (different dates in summer 1968) ? Kassel, Germany 'Documenta IV' (Eroffnungskonsert mit Member Bernhard Hoke) ? Port Lligat, Spain Music z. Einweihung der 'Christus Statue' von Salvadore Dali ? Berlin, Germany Happenings in 'Forum Theatre Berlin' mit Bernhard Hoke ? Frankfurt, Germany Theater am Turm (TAT) 1969 October 11 Essen, Germany Pop & Blues Festival ? Frankfurt, Germany Magic Cave Club (several dates) 1970 ? Berlin, Germany Technische Universitat (Technical University) ? Frankfurt, Germany 'Experimenta' Messe ? Berlin, Germany (SFB - TV) - 'Konzert bei Hofe' (Haus 'ALT Bayern', Potsdamer Stn. 24) September 1 Berlin, Germany Haus der Jugend (Bocklerpark-19.30) October 10 Kapfenberg, Austria 'Flipper-Concert' (auch in Austria-TV) ? Berlin, Germany Zodiac Club ? Berlin, Germany Quasimodo 1971 June 7 Berlin, Germany Auditorium der Kongresshalle (Congress Hall Auditorium) (planned for Planetarium) ? Aachen, Germany University 1972 (German tour in November was cancelled) ? Vienna, Austria Concert House March 27 Berlin, Germany Schoneberg Planetarium (Kuppelhalle) July 7 Berlin, Germany University (Audimax) December 2 Berlin, Germany Akademie der Kunste (multi-media show) ? Brussels, Belgium 'Palais des Beaux Arts' Einladung Goethe-Institute ? Brussels, Belgium 'Deutsche Bibliothek' Einladung Goethe-Institute 1973 February 15 Paris, France Theatre de L' Ouest (with Ash Ra Tempel and Klaus Schulze) February 16 Paris, France Theatre de L' Ouest July 3 Lyon, France ? August 22 Paris, France (Froese, Franke, Schulze) August 24 La Rochelle, France (in an inflated warm air tent) August 25 Roanne, France 'L'Arc en Ciel' (The Rainbow) August 27 Ratingen, Germany 'Blauer See' ? Mšnchengladbach, Germany Gymnasium 1974 April 9 (29?) London, England (BBC-FM) 'Top Gear' June 16 London, England Victoria Palace Theatre (the band's first U.K. concert) August 18 Chichester, England Festival Theatre October ? Dusseldorf, Germany ? 1974 British tour: October 26 London, England Rainbow Theatre November 4 Manchester, England FreeTrade Hall November 6 London, England North East Polytechnic November 8 Brighton, England The Dome November 9 Plymouth, England Guild Hall November 10 Paignton, England Festival Hall November 16 Cambridge, England Corn Exchange November 17 Guildford, England Civic Hall November 19 Edinburgh, Scotland Caley Cinema November 22 Southampton, England Southampton University November 23 Southend, England Kuursal Hall November 29 Cardiff, Wales Cardiff University November 30 Bristol, England Colston Hall December 1 Leicester, England De Montfort Hall December 4 Newcastle, England Newcastle City Hall 1975 Australian tour: March 16 Sydney, Australia Horden Pavillion March 18 Auckland, New Zealand Town Hall March 20 Brisbane, Australia Queensland University City Hall March 23 Canberra, Australia Lakeside Hotel March 26 Perth, Australia Winthrop University Hall March 27 Perth, Australia Winthrop University Hall April 25 Munich, Germany Saint Benno-Kirche September 14 Paris, France 'F�te de l'HumanitŽ' September 26 Munich, Germany Kongressaal Deutsches Museum 1975 British tour: October 7 Norwich, England Saint Andreas Hall October 9 Sheffield, England Sheffield City Hall October 13 Oxford, England Oxford Polytechnic October 26 Birmingham, England Town Hall October 27 Sheffield, England Sheffield City Hall October 29 Bradford, England Saint Georges Hall December ? Munich, Germany Museum December ? ? Austria Unidentified concert dates December ? ? Switzerland Unidentified concert dates 1976 January 29 Barcelona, Spain Parbellon Departivo Club Juventus Barcelona 1976 EUROPEAN TOUR (Stratosfear) October 22 Hamburg, Germany Musikhalle October 22 Hamburg, Germany Musikhalle October 25 Stuttgart, Germany Liederhalle October 26 Frankfurt, Germany Jahrhunderthalle October 28 Erlangen, Germany Stadhalle October 30 Saarbrucken Germany Kongresshalle November 5 Manchester, England Free Trade Centre November 7 Coventry, England Coventry Theater November 10 Cardiff, Wales Capital Hall November 12 Birmingham, England Odeon Theatre November 20 Colmar, France ? November 23 Lyon, France ? November 24 Poitiers, France Les Ar�nes de Poitiers November 27 Madrid, Spain Deportiro Real Madrid November 29 Valencia, Spain Sala Albion December 1 Bordeaux, France ? 1977 ? Berlin, Germany Berlin Philharmonic 1977 NORTH AMERICAN TOUR (Stratosfear) April 1 Chicago, U.S.A. Aragon Ballroom April 6 Philadelphia, U.S.A. Tower Theater April 12 Chicoutimi, Canada Dufour Auditorium April 15 Hamilton, Canada Hamilton Place April 16 Ottawa, Canada Civic Center April 20 Portland, U.S.A. Paramount Theater April 25 San Francisco, U.S.A. Berkeley Community Theater July 9 San Diego, U.S.A. Civic Theater July 10 Tuscon, U.S.A. Community Theater July 14 Boulder, U.S.A. Mackey Auditorium (University of Colerado) August 1 Quebec City, Canada Convention Center August 2 Montreal, Canada Place des Nations August 4 Toronto, Canada Convocation Hall August 5 Toronto, Canada Convocation Hall August 6 Meadowbrook, U.S.A. Pine Knob August 7 Milwaukee, U.S.A. Performing Arts Center 1978 EUROPEAN TOUR (Cyclone) February 20 Offenbach, Germany Stadhalle February 21 Mannheim, Germany Musen Saal February 22 Munich, Germany Deutsches Museum February 23 Erlangen, Germany Stadhalle February 26 Nancy, France Foire des Expositions February 27 Reims, France Opera February 28 Rouen, France Parc des Expositions March 3 Dijon, France Palais des Congr�s March 4 Lille, France Chapiteau Parking de la Foire International March 8 Bordeaux, France Chapiteau Campus de Talence March 9 Toulouse, France Parc des Expositions March 10 Pau, France Parc des Expositions March 11 Pamplona, Spain Pabellon Araitasuma March 15 Marseille, France Chapiteau March 19 Oxford, England New Theatre March 20 London, England Hammersmith Odeon March 21 Portsmouth, England Guild Hall March 22 Birmingham, England Birmingham Odeon March 27 Croydon, England Fairfield Hall 1980 EUROPEAN TOUR (Tangram) October 11 Kiel, Germany Ball Pompos October 12 Bremen, Germany Stadthalle October 14 Munich, Germany Deutsches Museum October 22 Barcelona, Spain ? October 23 Madrid, Spain ? October 25 Porto, Portugal ? October 26 Lisbon, Portugal Pavilhao dos Belenenses November 3 Glasgow, Scotland Apollo Theatre November 4 Edinburgh, Scotland Odeon Theatre November 11 Portsmouth, England Guild Hall November 13 Ipswich, England Gaumont Theatre 1981 EUROPEAN TOUR January 20 Essen, Germany Grugahalle January 22 Mannheim, Germany Mozartsaal January 23 Kassel, Germany Stadthalle January 28 Erlangen, Germany Stadtalle January 29 Wurzburg, Germany Kurnachtalhalle February 10 Udine, Italy ? February 11 Padua, Italy ? February 12 Turin, Italy ? 1981 BRITISH OCTOBER TOUR (Exit) October 19 Cork, Ireland James Connolly Hall October 21 Birmingham, England Birmingham Odeon October 23 Derby, England Assembly Rooms 1982 AUSTRALIAN TOUR (Exit or White Eagle?) February 24 Adelaide, Australia Thebarton Town Hall February 26 Perth, Australia Concert Hall 1982 EUROPEAN TOUR (White Eagle) October 19 Budapest, Hungary Sports Hall (lst show - afternoon, cancelled) October 22 Zagreb, Yugoslavia Sports Hall October 23 Belgrade, Yugoslavia Pioneer Hall October 24 Novisad, Yugoslavia Itala Sport October 26 Stuttgart, Germany Liederhalle November 14 Hamburg, Germany Congres Centrum Hamburg November 19 Rostock, East Germany Sport-Kongresshalle November 20 Rostock, East Germany Sport-Kongresshalle November 21 Rostock, East Germany Sport-Kongresshalle November 22 Suhl, East Germany ? November 23 Erfurt, East Germany ? November 24 Gera, East Germany Haus der Kultur, Grosser Saal November 25 Karl Marx Stadt, East Germany ? 1983 JAPANESE TOUR (White Eagle?) June 26 Nagoya, Japan ? August 31 Athens, Greece Lycabettus Theatre September ? Athens, Greece TV broadcast of concert and interview by Omiros Karajas November 28 Magdeburg, German Democratic Republic Stadthalle December 9 Poznai, Poland Arena December 11 Zabrze, Poland Hala Sportowa KWK'Makoszowy' (2 shows) December 12 üîd�, Poland Hala Sportowa December 14 Opole Hala Sportowa December 15 Wrocüaw, Poland Hala Ludowa December ? Wismar, East Germany ? 1986 EUROPEAN TOUR (Underwater Sunlight) March 15 Ipswich, England Gaumont Theatre March 25 Bristol, England Hippodrome 1986 NORTH AMERICAN TOUR (Underwater Sunlight) June 4 Sante Fe, U.S.A. Palo Soleri Amphitheater June 7 Phoenix, U.S.A. Mesa Amphitheater June 16 Minneapolis, U.S.A. The Orpheum 1988 NORTH AMERICAN TOUR (Optical Race) August 29 Pittsburg, U.S.A. Benedum Theater September 13 Atlanta, U.S.A. Center Stage Theater September 15 Miami, U.S.A. Cameo Theater (originally scheduled for the Sunrise Musical Theatre in Fort Lauderdale, but this was damaged by Hurricane Florence) September 17 Houston, U.S.A. Jones Hall 1992 6 October Quebec City, Canada Grand Theatre 7 October New Britain, Connecticut, U.S.A. The Sting 11 October Pittsburgh, U.S.A. ? 18 October Minneapolis, U.S.A. ? 22 October Denver, U.S.A. ? 24 October Portland, U.S.A. ? 27 October San Francisco, U.S.A. ? 29 October Scottsdale, Arizona, U.S.A. Civic Center Amphitheater (outdoor concert) 1994 6 March Desenzano Sul Garde, Garda Lake, Italy 'Sesto Senso' Club (TV interview and video film only, not a concert) 1995 15 June Milan, Italy 'Tutti Frutti' open air disco (press interviews and video film only, not a concert) 1997 9 April Vienna, Austria Museumquartier 10 April Filderstadt, Stuttgart, Germany Filharmonie 17 April Hannover, Germany Musikhalle 19 April Brussels, Belgium L'Anci�nne Belgique 24 April Prague, Czech Republic Sky Club Brumlovka Ê Ê 1997 UK 'Tournado' tour 29 October Bristol, England Colston Hall 2 November Leeds, England Town and Country Club 3 November Birmingham, England Symphony Hall 2000 28 Oct Berlin, Germany 'Kalkscheune' (dance event and 'Ground Liftaz' label launch with Jerome Froese appearing as a guest DJ. Not a concert, but unreleased material was played at this event) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31922 Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist Mark Filipak Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31928 Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist braddito Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31931 Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist airsculpture Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31937 Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist braddito Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31938 Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist Klaus Beschorner Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 9:27 am Subject: [tree] Update My sincere thanks to Joe for setting up the tree structure :-) As much as I would like to start sending out the first batch of CDRs to the branches, I'm afraid you have to be a bit more patient. The reason for this delay is that I am still waiting for three cdr's to arrive, and I have the fear that at the moment some ugly German or Polish custom officer is playing the Nottingham 76 show in his office ;-( But as soon as I receive the last three discs I'll start my burners asap :-) Regards Heiko From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 10:04 am Subject: Tatort - source for (good?) info Lookie what I found: http://www.br-online.de/unterhaltung/tatort/ It includes the dates of broadcast from 29 Nov 1970 to the present. There are some obvious date errors. Anyone with confirmations/more info., please contact me off list. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31919 Re: Tatort - source for (good?) info richter_arne Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31942 Re: Tatort - source for (good?) info Jim Moore Wed 2/6/2002 3 KB From: 'richter_arne' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 10:23 am Subject: Re: Tatort - source for (good?) info --- In tadream@y..., Mark Filipak wrote: > Lookie what I found: > > http://www.br-online.de/unterhaltung/tatort/ > > It includes the dates of broadcast from 29 Nov 1970 to the present. Actually, this is not such a good page as it only lists the shows produced by BR, one of the 9 regional TV stations. However, for the entire series, all 9 regional TV stations cooperate and take turns in producing the show, once in a while there is even a Swiss and an Austrian epsiode produced by the TV stations in those countries. A better link is therefore http://www.das-erste.de/tatort/ as it lists all shows from all stations. Maybe hard to imagine for US viewers, but this show actually has some 14 different identies, i.e. 14 different investigation teams and thus 'heros' that take turns every week. Over time, you get to know all of them, but week by week there is quite a change in style. At any rate, the page above finally solves the mystery of the Tangerine-Dream scored show 'Miriam'. It was in fact, as I stated earlier, broadcast on Sunday, 03. April 1983 and not on Saturday 02. April 1983! From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 10:57 am Subject: [tree] CDR brands More results, Craig: Mitusi MTCDR-74 ATIP: 97m 32s 00f Disc Manufacturer: TDK Corp. <<==Yes, TDK! Recording layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.) Media type: CD-Recordable nominal Capacity: 652.29MB (74m 15s 00f / LBA: 333975) Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown TDK CD-R74 ATIP: 97m 32s 00f Disc Manufacturer: TDK Corp. Recording layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.) Media type: CD-Recordable nominal Capacity: 652.29MB (74m 15s 00f / LBA: 333975) Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown (Look familiar? -- yes, they are apparently identical!) Verbatim Data Life Plus ATIP: 97m 32s 20f Disc Manufacturer: Mitsubishi Chemicals Corp. Recording layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.) Media type: CD-Recordable nominal Capacity: 506.17MB (57m 37s 36f / LBA: 259161) Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown (506 MB? 57 minutes? I think not!) Memorex Professional ATIP: 97m 32s 18f Disc Manufacturer: Prodisc Technology Inc. Reflective layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine) Media type: CD-Recordable Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown nominal Capacity: 547.68MB (62m 20s 61f / LBA: 280411) (547 MB? 62 minutes? I think not!) Not a 'RITEK' or 'Taiyo-Yuden' in sight. Conclusions? Damned if I know. BTW, counter to what I've read in the list recently, I have a friend who has Imation CDRs that are marked 'Made in Taiwan'. Conclusions? Still damned if I know, but given the low capacities and times indicated, I don't think CDR Identifier is working properly. -- Mark 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > Mark, > I think you got the right program...just the disk you looked at desn't tell > you much. Look at a Memorex, Imation, etc. or a generic and you will > probably see RITEK as the Manufacturer. Mitsui will say Mitsui, HP or Fuji > will say Taiyo-Yuden, etc. > > But yeah, if it caused all those problems, it probably wasn't worth it... > > Craig > > > 2 - I ran the program, CDRIdentifier.exe, and it indentifies the > > following: > > > > ATIP: (whatever this is) > > Disc Manufacturer: (not the country) > > Recording layer: > > Media type: > > nominal Capacity: > > Recording Speeds: > > > > For example, for some CDRs that Heiko sent me... > > > > ATIP: 97m 28x 26f > > Disc Manufacturer: Multi Media Masters_Machinery SA > > Recording layer: Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine) > > Media type: CD-Recordable > > nominal Capacity: 578.29MB (65m 49s 60f / LBA: 296085) > > Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown > > > > I don't know what to make of this, but it doesn't look like > > anything that can answer the question: Taiwan, US, Japan, or Ireland? > > > > Did I get the wrong program? Did I do something wrong? From: peter.stoeferle@t... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:07 am Subject: RE: TD-tree artwork > From: olle.rundgren@s... > Subject: TD-tree artwork > > Just one objection/suggestion or whatever You prefer to call it: Why not use > the same font on all covers? Using the same type of text will tie it all > together better. Hi, this should be obligatory: The same type font and certain parallels in the whole artwork design make the whole set recognizable. Look at TD's (or other artitsts') official box sets and you will see that they all use certain kinds of general characteristics and features. Companies use the term of 'corporate identity' for ith, so why not a 'corporate identity' for the 'Tangerine Tree'? Peter From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist Paul Fellows wrote: -snip- > 1971 > > ? Aachen, Germany University I don't know the date, and I don't know whether a fantape exists, but I think that after some sleuthing I know the venue: Rhine-Westphalia Technical University Ciao -- Mark From: Antonio Nunes Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] CDR brands / what's good for trading ? braddito wrote: > > I saw that they had HP discs in stock but most packages don't give > the country of manufacture, are they pretty certain to be made by > Taiyo-Yuden (hence acceptable for trading ?) I'm very happy with HP CDRs. I use them all the time both for audio and data, and didn't get a single coaster so far. Antonio np: TD - Newcastle City Hall 25-10-1981 From: Antonio Nunes Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Yannick EDOM wrote: > > The normal stereo track will be soon available online through Olyam website. > So you will be abble to get it entirely. > > The DTS track is an experiment. I'd rather have the normal stereo track on the CDR and the DTS track on a website for download. Why don't we organize a branch of this tree for people who prefer the normal track on the CDR? If so, I can support up to 5 branches. Antonio From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:34 am Subject: ASHRA CD`s Hi, ASHRA CD`s on ebay: SUENO LATINO Maxi CD with Manuel Goettsching http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1508992930&r=0&t=0&showTut\ orial=0&ed=1013089457&indexURL=0&rd=1 ASHRA - @shra Vol. 2 Live Japan (NEW) http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1510259108&r=0&t=0&showTut\ orial=0&ed=1013630439&indexURL=0&rd=1 ASHRA - The Making of... (3CD Box NEW) http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1510259111&r=0&t=0&showTut\ orial=0&ed=1013630439&indexURL=0&rd=1 Regards heiko ebay ID: heineu www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de D2 Vodafone CallYa - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?86795C1493809712 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Rolf Elfström Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:38 am Subject: RE: [tree] CDR brands >Mark, >I think you got the right program...just the disk you looked at desn't tell >you much. Look at a Memorex, Imation, etc. or a generic and you will >probably see RITEK as the Manufacturer. Mitsui will say Mitsui, HP or Fuji >will say Taiyo-Yuden, etc. > >But yeah, if it caused all those problems, it probably wasn't worth it... > >Craig The CDR Identifier doesn't tell you much and sometimes not even the truth. The following is quoted from CD-Recordable FAQ (http://www.cdrfaq.org); It's tempting to believe that CD-R media identifier applications will give you the answer you need. Unfortunately, the data you get is unreliable at best. Charles Palmer, from cd-recordable.com, had this to say about the manufacturer identification: 'Two components that many users of these programs always take as gospel are Media Manufacturer and Dye Data. These two readings are next to worthless. The reason for this is that many CD-R manufacturers (like CD- Recordable.com) purchase their stampers (the nickel die that all CD-R substrates are molded from) from 3rd party sources. These 3rd party sources (either other disc manufacturers, or mastering houses) encode the data that these 'Identification' programs read, at the time that the original glass master is encoded. The 'Manufacturer' information that is encoded is usually the name of the company that made the master. Since stampers made from that master will be sold to disc manufacturers the world over, all of discs that those manufacturers produce from those stampers will contain the same 'Manufacturer' information. Information which is obviously quite erroneous and irrelevant. Very seldom will the 'manufacturer' information encoded on a CD-R actually tell you anything other than who made the original master. [...] The second piece of data (the dye type) is also dubious. Because most master/stamper configurations are designed to be matched to specific dye types (Phthalocyanine, Cyanine, Azo, Etc), the 'Dye' information that is encoded when the master is produced indicates the type of dye that the master was designed for. This of course, does not assure that the manufacturer that buys and uses this stamper will be using it with the dye that it has been designed for. It is quite possible that a stamper/dye combination is used by a CD-R manufacturer that contradicts the 'dye' information encoded on the master. Therefore that information becomes as potentially misleading as the 'Manufacturer' data discussed earlier.' The only reliable piece of information in the 'ATIP' region is the disc length. Rolf From: Rolf Elfström Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:40 am Subject: Re: [tadream] CDR brands /Kodak >My local PC World (UK) has stopped stocking Kodak Gold/Silver at >present... > > > >Regards >Toby Not just 'at present', Eastman Kodak has stopped manufacturing their CDR and CDRW brands for good... :( Rolf From: 'braddito' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:48 am Subject: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist The Chichester Festival - didn't they just perform 'Oedipus Tyrannus' ? I believe I have the Derby show from 1981, I'll check tonight. Toby Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31931 Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist airsculpture Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31937 Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist braddito Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] CDR brands From: 'Mark Filipak' > > Conclusions? Still damned if I know, but given the low capacities > and times indicated, I don't think CDR Identifier is working properly. -- Mark This passage from the CDR Faq may shed some light. http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-33 Maff From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:13 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD-tree artwork From: > this should be obligatory: The same type font and certain parallels > in the whole artwork design make the whole set recognizable. > Look at TD's (or other artitsts') official box sets and you will see > that they all use certain kinds of > general characteristics and features. Dont worry, we are. The same fonts are being used for the spine, track listings (the andes font for that one, which TD use themselves) and front. The style we've come up with makes everything look consistent and allows each cover designer some room to personalise their work. Maff From: 'airsculpture' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 12:03 pm Subject: Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist --- In tadream@y..., 'braddito' wrote: > The Chichester Festival - didn't they just perform 'Oedipus > Tyrannus' ? Does anyone know for certain whether they performed here at all? It's always presented as a concert in boot lists etc., but it's more usual to have the music played from tape under these circumstances. I had a quick scour of the web and while there are quite a few references to the play, none mention live music. My guess is that the music was provided on tape, and either that tape leaked or the masters for the album that never happened did - probably the former. Anyone know for sure? jc Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31937 Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist braddito Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB From: 'Yannick EDOM' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 12:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales reminder (DTS question) Hi > > The normal stereo track will be soon available online through Olyam website. > > So you will be abble to get it entirely. > > > > The DTS track is an experiment. > > > I'd rather have the normal stereo track on the CDR and the DTS track on > a website for download. Why don't we organize a branch of this tree for > people who prefer the normal track on the CDR? If so, I can support up > to 5 branches. That's an idea to be discussed. Yannick Edom Mirage Créations Champlain B7 A 101 47 Chemin de Pelleport 31500 TOULOUSE FRANCE e-mail : yannick.edom@s... From: olle.rundgren@s... Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 2:03 pm Subject: Re: TD-tree artwork Gustavo Jobim wrote: >..Did >you mean using the same font all over the place? I'm not sure that would >work... maybe it's just a matter of taste. It certainly is. Call me Branding-freak if you like, but I think it would look better with one font and font style throughout the series. Why wouldn't it work, if I may ask? /Olle Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31934 Re: TD-tree artwork Gustavo Jobim Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 9:52 pm Subject: Re: TD-tree artwork I just think it's more interesting to use different fonts for different things. Anyway, in the design we used similar fonts: Arial black, tahoma, arial, arial narrow. They're only in different shapes and sizes. In the verse of the front cover, for example, the liner notes and tree index are all tahoma. The only really different font is Andes, for the tracklist. For me it would be boring if we had the same arial, same shape, for everything. Or even worse, the same times new roman. aaaargh! :) > Gustavo Jobim wrote: >>..Did >>you mean using the same font all over the place? I'm not sure that would >>work... maybe it's just a matter of taste. > > It certainly is. Call me Branding-freak if you like, but I think it would > look better with one font and font style throughout the series. > Why wouldn't it work, if I may ask? From: Art Of Vision Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 4:05 pm Subject: Re: using TD track names >Wow, that's quite a lot of names. Where do you get enough things to be >named? Do you give TD names also to your pets, pocket knife, shoes or what? >-Oh well. I've been also using TD track names in places where no-one is >going to ever find them, for instance there're now certain custom levels >that're called 'Green Desert' or 'Cloudburst Flight' etc., in a certain >game. What kind of funny places do you use? > No, no, no. I used most of this titles in PBEM-games. That's a kind of fantasy games played by e-mail and you need to name your factions (that's a kind of your own empire) and units. So I often give them TD names. It's the third thing I spend plenty of time on after preparation for the university exams and listening to the music. >I wonder what unused good tracknames there are left at all? Any infernally >long (Mysterious Semblance at the Strand of Nightmares, Origin of >Supernatural Probabilities) or phrase-like (Too Hot For My Chinchilla, >Invisible Limits) ones don't suit. > Art of destruction, Zeit, Atem, Ricochet, Stratosfear, Convention of 24, Tyger, Dolls in the Shadow, Desert Train, 220 Volts, Homeless, Sundance Kid, Hamlet, Firetongues, Midwinter Night, Silver Screen, Comet's Figure Head, Pilots of Ether Belt, Astrophobia, The Spirit Of The Czar, ... and many-many others. Also in soundtracks. >I don't either want to be known as >'Betrayal' or something so I guess I'll have to choose between Hyperborea >and Fauni-Gena... How about Dr.Destructo?:) AoV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Art Of Vision Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 4:06 pm Subject: Re: People >I agree, this sort of music requires concentration. Or either a good >knowledge of how the piece goes so your mind can 'fill in the gaps'. >I quite >often do listen TD in school, well, except after my headphones broke >:*( > >But you're yet another student? How come I didn't already know >this? > I don't know, better ask yourself:) I think I've mentioned it in my first messages on this list. This were the gloomy november days of 2001... AoV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: 'braddito' Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 4:55 pm Subject: Re: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist Virgin released one of the three tracks in Stereo on a sampler called 'V'. This suggests that they had the tapes and a decision was made not to release. I think one of the subsequent UK tour programmes refers to the music not being used too well by the Chichester production, 'unsympathetically' possibly being the word used - suggesting you are right about the use of tapes rather than any live performance. Toby --- In tadream@y..., 'airsculpture' wrote: > --- In tadream@y..., 'braddito' wrote: > > > The Chichester Festival - didn't they just perform 'Oedipus > > Tyrannus' ? > > Does anyone know for certain whether they performed here at all? > > It's always presented as a concert in boot lists etc., but it's more > usual to have the music played from tape under these circumstances. > I had a quick scour of the web and while there are quite a few > references to the play, none mention live music. > > My guess is that the music was provided on tape, and either that tape > leaked or the masters for the album that never happened did - > probably the former. Anyone know for sure? > > jc From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 5:46 pm Subject: Concerts for which fan tapes don't exist Paul, hard as it may be to believe - there is (still) a world outside the internet. I approximate 80% of TDs 'collecting' fans to be only there, and maybe even more of the guys who taped each and every show in their city in the 70s and 80s. So some of these tapes, I'm sure, do exist, but this list is the wrong place to look for them. Like looking for your lost keys under a street light, instead of where you lost them ;-) > October 19 Budapest, Hungary Sports Hall (lst show - afternoon, cancelled) Do you actually expect to find a tape of a cancelled show ;-) Now, that would be easy enough to fake ;-) The evening show is on my list > October 26 Stuttgart, Germany Liederhalle This is an example for what I said above. A guy sitting behind me taped the show, I just never managed to track him down. > 10 April Filderstadt, Stuttgart, Germany Filharmonie on my list (incomplete, but so are many, many of the known concert tapes) > 28 Oct Berlin, Germany 'Kalkscheune' (dance event and 'Ground Liftaz' label > launch with Jerome Froese appearing as a guest DJ. Not a concert, but > unreleased material was played at this event) I don't have it, but it was circulating among fans, I (and many others) know who taped it. cheers, klaus From: René Brenner Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 3:49 pm Subject: New to tadream Hi everyone I'm new to this mailing list. I would like to know what is the TD tree project all about... couldn't figure this out yet ;) ... and by the way I own a 45 CD Tangerine Dream collection which is still growing ... regards René From: Sean Montgomery Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 9:07 pm Subject: Coming out of hiding for a minute... I haven't posted here in a couple of months...primarily because I just read messages through the yahoo website now rather than have them e-mailed to me. But I thought I'd come out of hiding to thank whoever made the 'Inferno' mp3 available on Audiogalaxy. Based on the first 20 minutes that I've heard so far, I think this really is the most interesting thing that the band has done since the first Dream Mixes, and possibly since Underwater Sunlight. This is the first time in 30 years that they've found a way to make vocals work with their music. In fact, the vocals are what really make it work...without them, it'd be pretty bland. In parts, Inferno sounds a bit like 80s goth favourites This Mortal Coil (Martin K, you must be really happy! ). It has a real atmosphere and personality, something that their albums have been lacking for years. I'm looking forward to the official release...which might not be until May or June? -- SEAN MONTGOMERY T O P I X / Mad Dog http://www.topix.com/~sean Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31944 Re: Coming out of hiding for a minute... Gustavo Jobim Wed 2/6/2002 3 KB 31946 Re: Coming out of hiding for a minute... Jim Moore Wed 2/6/2002 3 KB 31947 Re: Coming out of hiding for a minute... Gustavo Jobim Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 11:42 pm Subject: [tree] Tangerine Tree participation procedures For those wondering what to do next: 1) exchange mailing addresses with your branchline. this means all trading partners- your supplier and your leaves if you have any to find your branchline, you need to search in the participants table or the yahoogroups database: Table: http://www.tadream.net/tree/treestructure/alphaname.htm - hit CTRL-F to look for all instances of your own name to see with whom you're trading Yahoogroups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database/ - click 'Tangerine Tree Participants' Table' - use the search feature to look up your name and it will show you and all your branchline 2) establish trading terms. these are between you. some info is on the tree info page: http://www.tadream.net/tree/ 3) due to unexpected circumstances, there may be some changes in the actual concerts included. we will update you asap. 4) we will compile the new artwork onthe tree page any problems you can e-mail me off-list. Thanks, Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31952 Re: [tree] Tangerine Tree participation procedure Joe Shoults Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB 34148 Question About Downloading Dreamwatcher Cover Art Deb H-J Tue 5/28/2002 2 KB 34149 AW: [tadream] Question About Downloading Dreamwat Herbert Tue 5/28/2002 3 KB From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 12:56 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Tatort - source for (good?) info Wow! How long has this show been in production? -----Original Message----- From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 5:04 AM To: Tadream List Subject: [tadream] Tatort - source for (good?) info Lookie what I found: http://www.br-online.de/unterhaltung/tatort/ It includes the dates of broadcast from 29 Nov 1970 to the present. There are some obvious date errors. Anyone with confirmations/more info., please contact me off list. Ciao -- Mark ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 1:45 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Much like the name Strawberry Alarmclock, a popular group around the 60's as well, the creativity of the names at that time conjured up feelings; in other words, it was more than just a listening experience and definitely not meant for the background. Strawberry Alarmclock: a bright awakening, so much promise for the day, a new way to feel about life Tangerine Dream: a bright vision, so much hope for tomorrow, a new way to cope with the future All IMO of course. 8-) Dell >From: Gustavo Jobim > >I don't really care about the origin of the name 'tangerine dream'. I just >think it's an incredibly creative name. It manages to be quite absurd >without exaggerating. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31945 Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' Jim Moore Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 1:53 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Coming out of hiding for a minute... >It has a real atmosphere and personality, something that their albums have been lacking for years. That is EXACTLY my complaint! Lack of personality! Although I find Mars Polaris, for instance, nice, it does lack personality for me. I mean, it's not something you remember, something you can recognize, I don't know; if I go further trying to explain this'll become just ramblings. But exactly, lack of personality is the big problem, and I too liked Inferno very much. Actually I just started playing it after being reminded by your email :) Looking forward to the Tree edition... I believe it has better quality, or not? >I'm looking forward to the official release...which might not be until May or June? SEAN MONTGOMERY I'm eagerly waiting for the official release, actually... -GJ np Bernau 2001 Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31946 Re: Coming out of hiding for a minute... Jim Moore Wed 2/6/2002 3 KB 31947 Re: Coming out of hiding for a minute... Gustavo Jobim Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 1:54 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Origins of 'Tangerine Dream' From: Adele Outland [mailto:outlanda60@h...] >Strawberry Alarmclock: a bright awakening, so much promise for the day, a new way to feel about life Aha! My first exposure to this group was from Russ Meyer's 'Beyond the Valley of the Dolls' (they were performing at Z-man's first party). I later found out that a man I worked with was a founding member of this group! Alas, I've not heard from him or his whereabouts in years (one of my few 'Brushes with Greatness'). - jim From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 2:14 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Coming out of hiding for a minute... From: Gustavo Jobim [mailto:gustavojobim@n...] >That is EXACTLY my complaint! Lack of personality! Although I find Mars Polaris, for instance, nice, it does lack personality for me. I mean, it's not something you remember, something you can recognize, I don't know; if I go further trying to explain this'll become just ramblings. Hmmm... my favorite spin-time of this album is during night-drives with the top down. It certainly picks up personality during these moments. I've even had 'passengers', who normally aren't too fond of electronica, comment on how well the music fit the mood. I guess we'll have to resort to 'ramblin'' on this one... - jim Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31947 Re: Coming out of hiding for a minute... Gustavo Jobim Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 3:04 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Coming out of hiding for a minute... >Hmmm... my favorite spin-time of this album is during night-drives with the >top down. It certainly picks up personality during these moments. I've >even had 'passengers', who normally aren't too fond of electronica, comment >on how well the music fit the mood. there's one particular moment in comet's figure head that i like, when there's that bass tune repeated a few times... but i'm not sure i can remember anything else like this. similar thing happens in tyranny of beauty... Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 5:25 am Subject: [tree] artwork I disagree that the artwork or fonts have to be the same or similar. This isn't like the Digital Tape Tree where it's just copies of decent tapes/bootlegs that are already widely available. This is, in many cases, material we've never heard at this quality and shows that have not been widely available. There are new productions here and I think it would be a shame that all 3 artists must wear a straightjacket that all the discs must be genericized and based off the same basic layout. The fact that we're getting 10 discs at a time is coincidental. This could just as easily be these concerts being released one at a time. I hope that nobody has slammed the door on having/allowing BOTH unique artwork-per-concert AND a homogenous design amongst the whole tree. -Morgan P.S. Just a reminder. PLEASE put 'This replaces: xx, yy, and zz' on the artwork for each of these discs. For instance, 75 Royal Albert Hall replaces Coefficient of Aural Expansion, Phaedream, etc. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31950 Re: [tree] artwork j.gordon Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 7:21 am Subject: [tree] Ready! I received the last three discs yesterday (forget what I said about custom officers being TD fans, they are great & fast etc. ;-) I will send out all the sets to my branches today and tomorrow. Due to unforseen circumstances we had to replace Volumes 4 & 5 (Warsaw 31.08.2001) with two other recordings, so the tracklist now looks like this: Volume 1: Nottingham Albert Hall 08. November 1976 (2nd gen. audience, remastered by '3N', time: 79.43 min.) *this one simply knocked me out :-) * Volume 2: Sheffield City Hall 29 October 1974 (audience recording, remastered by 'Jabberwock', time: 43.53 min.) Volume 3: Bernau St.-Marien-Kirche 07 October 2001 (Minidisc master audience recording by 'Danish Dynamite', time: 78.43 min.) Volume 4: Washington Lisner Auditorium 04 April 1977 (from two 2nd gen. FM recordings, remastered by 'Jabberwock', time: 109.49 min., 2 CDRs) Volume 5: Frankfurt Alte Oper 'Fassbinder memorial concert' 11 June 1983 (audience recording, remastered by 'Tentbuckum', time: 35.16 min.) Volume 6: Bilbao Pabellón de la Casilla 31 January 1976 (remastered 1st gen. audience recording, time: 114.23 min., 2 CDRs) Volume 7: Croydon Fairfield Hall 23 October 1975 (1st gen. audience recording, remastered by '3N', time: 61.41 min.) **I could write a book about the problems of remastering this concert, this version beats all others I have heard so far, but might get replaced with an even better sounding one, maybe as a replacement disc in the 2nd batch** Volume 8: Berlin Philharmonie 27 June 1976 (FM broadcast recording, remastered by '3N'..special thanks to Al 'The TD's pal', time: 31.31 min.) So there you have it. This is the right time to thank all of you who are in some way or another involved in this project, the last two weeks were extremly busy but also very exciting. Once you have received the CDRs I would be interested to hear your opinions :-) Regards Heiko From: 'j.gordon' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 7:58 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] artwork > P.S. Just a reminder. PLEASE put 'This replaces: xx, yy, and zz' on the > artwork for each of these discs. For instance, 75 Royal Albert Hall > replaces Coefficient of Aural Expansion, Phaedream, etc. this is a VERY good idea... i second it... jerome __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 8:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] artwork > > P.S. Just a reminder. PLEASE put 'This replaces: xx, yy, and zz' on the > > artwork for each of these discs. For instance, 75 Royal Albert Hall > > replaces Coefficient of Aural Expansion, Phaedream, etc. > > this is a VERY good idea... i second it... well, for the Nottingham 1976 show I think it's safe to say that it replaces the 'Me-rad' CD (and the encore which is on 'Collected endings')..and the Fassbinder 1983 recording is better & more complete than the 'Fassbinder memorial concert' bootleg LP. Heiko From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:46 am Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tangerine Tree participation procedures FYI: the CD listing has been updated on the tree info page -----Original Message----- 3) due to unexpected circumstances, there may be some changes in the actual concerts included. we will update you asap. From: 'maggior' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 4:10 pm Subject: [tree] Number of discs for SHN Do we know yet how many CDrs are required for the SHN branches? SHN doesn't cut the files precisely in half, so you can't really calculate it. We'll need to know this before the SHN branches can start sending their blanks to their supplier. Thanks, Rich Maggio From: 'djambient' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 4:56 pm Subject: Re: Mood-affecting albums I've been listening to electronic music of all types for decades now and TD has always been a mainstay for me. Over the years I came to the realization that I don't just listen to music for just entertainment - I find that what I chose to play often reflects what mood I want to get in and also to fit a particular style or type of music to compliment an activity. This has roots going back to live in the college dormitories where it was very distracting to try and read with all the noise of dorm life. I would play lots of TD, Clearlight, Jarre, Vangelis, Cluster, etc. to provide a filtering effect. This evolved over time to listening to music nearly 24 hours a day. I even listen to Eno type ambient stuff when reading and sleeping. (any Eno fans please email me offline, I just received a very interesting set of CDs). As for TD I find Zeit to be excellent to read or sleep to. In fact I've had it on autoplay all night the last two evenings. It effectively masks traffic noise and I have to say it's a cool experience waking up out of a dream and being enveloped in the sounds from Zeit. I find that the soundtrack to Thief to be one of my favorite TD discs since I find it inspires me to want to play my synths and especially to play guitar along with it. I also find that Underwater Sunlight and Le Parc get heavy play since they have a nice energetic feel and are great to work to. This may be tinged with some nostalgia since I saw TD in Boston at the time these discs came out - one of the best sound systems I've ever heard. The great thing about TD is that, in their vast catalogue, they have composed music that can suit just about any occasion or need and I always slip some on when I have visitors. I thought it odd when I heard the remark about playing Zeit while vacuuming. I'd never do that, that's what the Sex Pistols are for! (not a knock on the SP, everything has its place imho.) DanD aka: djambient@y... --- In tadream@y..., Art Of Vision wrote: > What albums have strong influence on your mood? That's > very important part of TD music, at least for me. > > Sorcerer, Rubicon - this are the most mood-affecting. > They often help when I'm tired or just feel bad > > White Eagle, Hyperborea, Melrose - I usually play them > while doing something long, boring and monotonous. > Such sort of thing occurs almost every day with me > last month:(( > > Tangram: this has strange effect - after listening to > it I'm usually silent and gloomy. I play it very rare. > > AoV > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31962 Re: Mood-affecting albums Deb H-J Thu 2/7/2002 3 KB From: 'richter_arne' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: Re: Using TD track names --- In tadream@y..., 'John Vertical' wrote: > and Fauni-Gena... (BTW, I think that the latter's a park in Berlin, near the > original Zodiak club where Eddie started his career; am I right?) Huh? Well, I live in Berlin and there is no such park that I know of. The famous Zodiak club was located near the 'Hallesches Ufer' in Kreuzberg, also no park of that name there. In fact, the name is very weird. According to the dictionary, the only possible explanation for 'Fauni' is the plural of Faun, i.e. a mystic or ancient god that is half man half goat similar to the greek Satyr. Don't know what that has to do with the bird noises on the track. 'Gena' on the other hand seems to be a part of the beek of a bird, so there you have it! But then again, maybe it was just the name of a good type of weed back in 1973, wouldn't be the first time they were inspired by the name of such a substance... From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 6:22 pm Subject: [tree] SHN discs? dunno how many discs will be need for the SHN branch, but from the track times I'd say probably 5 discs if the volumes group together this way (ymmv--it's my pure speculation at this point): Volumes: 1+2 4 3+5 6 7 --T _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31960 Re: [tree] SHN discs? michael_berling Wed 2/6/2002 3 KB 31961 Re: [tree] SHN discs? michael_berling Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 6:28 pm Subject: re [tree] SHN discs? er that would be volumes 7 + 8, not just 7 :) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'fozziebear' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 8:22 pm Subject: missing concert - found Hey Paul Remember absence of evidence and all that. I recorded and have a master copy of Bristol Colston Hall 29 10 97. If people want to consider it for Tree 2, I will gladly donate. Sorry can't do individual trades right now due to work commitments. This has been a good excuse to play the concert again. Now listening to the encores - White eagle remixes. David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'billfox' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 10:36 pm Subject: Attention Joe Soults Sorry for posting this private message in public. Hi Joe! I'm at 440-247-8786 (You're home phone is busy.) Bill From: 'michael_berling' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:48 pm Subject: Re: [tree] SHN discs? Hi, --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > dunno how many discs will be need for the SHN branch, but from the track > times I'd say probably 5 discs if the volumes group together this way > (ymmv--it's my pure speculation at this point): > > Volumes: > 1+2 > 4 > 3+5 > 6 > 7 it seems that I will become the seed of the SHN tree, because Heiko did get SHN versions only from some of the volumes, and he has only an audio cd burner and no equipment to create SHN cds. Thus, most probably I'll get the 1st or 2nd redbook cds from him, create the SHN versions and send them to the sub-branches originally planned to be supplied by Heiko. This all is not confirmed by now; I'll check this with Heiko tomorrow. Thus, by now I cannot tell you how many CDs we need, but I suppose Tei Waz is quite right: it will most probably be five discs. I'll inform you as soon as I've got the masters from Heiko and created the SHN files. Regards, Michael Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31961 Re: [tree] SHN discs? michael_berling Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: 'michael_berling' Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 11:53 pm Subject: Re: [tree] SHN discs? Aaargh, Michael, first read then send: I meant: Thus, most probably I'll get the 1st or 2nd _generation_ redbook cds from him... Michael From: Deb H-J Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:22 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Mood-affecting albums Dan: << I thought it odd when I heard the remark about playing Zeit while vacuuming. I'd never do that, that's what the Sex Pistols are for! >> Maybe you should see my house before you decide if Zeit is a good album for vaccuuming ;o} I listen to e-music primarily while working. I am a Medical Records Coder, which means I spend my working day analyzing medical records for diagnoses, and sometimes it's pretty grim work. I have to stay 'on target' and be very focused. I think I would have lost my mind some time ago if not for the music I can listen to while I work. It's like the music gets shuffled to a part of my brain where I can enjoy it while another part of my brain continues to work. I only play it at home when I am alone because my son and husband ask me to turn it down, or want to listen to something else. So, to keep the peace, I listen to it primarily at work. I used to listen to it while I commute, and some TD like 'The Keep' soundtrack can be downright scary when driving in the pouring rain, sandwiched between two trucks. I can't listen to 'Phaedra', either, without thinking about my first TD experience rocketing down the steepest section of interstate in the US in the fog. 'Poland' is almost difficult to listen to...it hits a spot in me that resonates as only a few other pieces of music do. At their best, TD has the power to move me as much as any other music I've ever experienced, and that says a lot coming from a long time collector and listener like myself. Anyway...an interesting line of conversation! Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 7:41 am Subject: [tree] SHN discs > it seems that I will become the seed of the SHN tree, because Heiko > did get SHN versions only from some of the volumes, and he has only > an audio cd burner and no equipment to create SHN cds. Thus, most > probably I'll get the 1st or 2nd redbook cds from him, create the SHN > versions and send them to the sub-branches originally planned to be > supplied by Heiko. This all is not confirmed by now; I'll check this > with Heiko tomorrow. A big hello to all tree participants who will receive the music in SHN format. Michael Berling will be responsible for sending out the SHN cds to those branch people which belong to the 1st tree level, most likely this will happen early next week. In a couple of hours I will ship the remaining four parcels to my redbook branches. Heiko From: 'John Vertical' Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 7:48 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena > > and Fauni-Gena... (BTW, I think that the latter's a park in Berlin, >near the > > original Zodiak club where Eddie started his career; am I right?) > >Huh? Well, I live in Berlin and there is no such park that I know of. >The famous Zodiak club was located near the 'Hallesches Ufer' in >Kreuzberg, also no park of that name there. In fact, the name is very >weird. According to the dictionary, the only possible explanation for >'Fauni' is the plural of Faun, i.e. a mystic or ancient god that is >half man half goat similar to the greek Satyr. Don't know what that >has to do with the bird noises on the track. 'Gena' on the other hand >seems to be a part of the beek of a bird, so there you have it! > >But then again, maybe it was just the name of a good type of weed >back in 1973, wouldn't be the first time they were inspired by the >name of such a substance... Well, there's only one place on the Internet which has the words 2fauni gena' but no TD connection: www.zodiakoverun.purespace.de/Mathildenh%F6he.htm It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where then? My Deutch is not too good. Could someone help? John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31965 Re: Fauni-Gena Olav Neander Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB 31966 Re: Fauni-Gena Hulshoff, Bert Thu 2/7/2002 4 KB 31968 Re: Fauni-Gena airsculpture Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB 31970 OT: BASF experiences Peter Ravn Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB 31969 Re: Fauni-Gena Mark Filipak Thu 2/7/2002 4 KB 31977 Re: Fauni-Gena richter_arne Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB 31978 Re: Fauni-Gena Mark Filipak Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB 32019 Re: Fauni-Gena Joe Shoults Fri 2/8/2002 4 KB 32033 Re: Fauni-Gena John Vertical Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: Olav Neander Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 8:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena John Vertical wrote: >Well, there's only one place on the Internet which has the words 2fauni >gena' but no TD connection: >www.zodiakoverun.purespace.de/Mathildenh%F6he.htm >It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where then? My Deutch >is not too good. > >Could someone help? > Yes, it's not in Berlin, but it's inside an Adventure Game... :-) Olav -- Electronic Dreamscapes from Norway - http://www.mp3.com/autopoiesis - ICQ# 9622825 From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 8:38 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena faun, faunie and gena are female names, so maybe one of the TD-members had something with a girl with that name ???? ;-) Bert -----Original Message----- From: Olav Neander [mailto:oneander@o...] Sent: donderdag 7 februari 2002 9:01 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena John Vertical wrote: >Well, there's only one place on the Internet which has the words 2fauni >gena' but no TD connection: >www.zodiakoverun.purespace.de/Mathildenh%F6he.htm >It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where then? My Deutch >is not too good. > >Could someone help? > Yes, it's not in Berlin, but it's inside an Adventure Game... :-) Olav -- Electronic Dreamscapes from Norway - http://www.mp3.com/autopoiesis - ICQ# 9622825 ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 8:59 am Subject: I want my homepage back To whom it may concern.. My TD homepage (http://members.tripod.de/Network23/TD.html) is down for the next six days. Tripod will revamp their server and promised me a lot of 'smashing new features'..wow! ;-) Heiko From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 9:09 am Subject: Re: Fauni-Gena --- In tadream@y..., 'John Vertical' wrote: > It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where then? From the street names, it's meant to be the Netherlands. > My Deutch is not too good. That's 'Dutch', right? :) So many of the track titles (especially round this time) seem to have been picked because they sound interesting in a Daliesque sort of way. I'm not sure there's much benefit in thinking too hard about them. jc Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31970 OT: BASF experiences Peter Ravn Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 9:21 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena John, Your web reference appears to be to a city that the creator of the web site calls 'Endwelt Elysium' literally: 'Final World Elysium', probably 'City of the Dead'. I believe this is for a role playing game as the link on the home page that takes you there is in a column headed 'Roleplaying'. So the park of 'Fauni-Gena' would be as imaginary as the rest of the city. About Fauni-Gena: Gena appears to be the feminine latin noun for 'cheek'. Fauni appears to be an erroneous latin combining term borrowed from technical latin meaning 'of animals'. I'm not going to pretend to be a linguist, but I wouldn't be surprised if 'fauni-gena' roughly means 'animal sounds'. I think that interpretation fits the music pretty well as there are bird sounds and I think the mellotron supplies other animal sounds quite well. Edgar was 28 years old at the time, Chris was 19, and Peter was almost 20. I don't think we can delve too deeply for hidden meaning. It probably isn't worth pursuing further. Just enjoy the ambience. -- Mark John Vertical wrote: > > > > and Fauni-Gena... (BTW, I think that the latter's a park in Berlin, > >near the > > > original Zodiak club where Eddie started his career; am I right?) > > > >Huh? Well, I live in Berlin and there is no such park that I know of. > >The famous Zodiak club was located near the 'Hallesches Ufer' in > >Kreuzberg, also no park of that name there. In fact, the name is very > >weird. According to the dictionary, the only possible explanation for > >'Fauni' is the plural of Faun, i.e. a mystic or ancient god that is > >half man half goat similar to the greek Satyr. Don't know what that > >has to do with the bird noises on the track. 'Gena' on the other hand > >seems to be a part of the beek of a bird, so there you have it! > > > >But then again, maybe it was just the name of a good type of weed > >back in 1973, wouldn't be the first time they were inspired by the > >name of such a substance... > > Well, there's only one place on the Internet which has the words 2fauni > gena' but no TD connection: > www.zodiakoverun.purespace.de/Mathildenh%F6he.htm > It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where then? My Deutch > is not too good. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31977 Re: Fauni-Gena richter_arne Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB From: Peter Ravn Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 9:22 am Subject: OT: BASF experiences Hi, I have som bad experiences with BASF MD and CD audio media. In my 5,5 minidisc years did I never have any dropouts/pops (more than 500 MD's in different brands) but now BASF (EMTEC) do the job :-( and also now on a CD audio (done at 1*speed).... German quality ? :-( Have anyone of you some experiences with that brand to share - I am very disappointed about the (lack of) quality control? Best regards, Peter Peter Ravn pr@r... & peter@r... From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 9:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: BASF experiences > In my 5,5 minidisc years did I never have any dropouts/pops (more than 500 > MD's in different brands) but now BASF (EMTEC) do the job :-( > and also now on a CD audio (done at 1*speed).... I don't buy BASF/EMTEC audio cdr's these days because I find them a bit too expensive, but I bought some in the past and had no problems with them. > German quality ? :-( Don't believe the hype. .but you will definetly see some high German quality at this years' World Cup football tournament ;-)) Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31972 Re: OT: BASF experiences TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Thu 2/7/2002 3 KB 31973 OT: Bryan Adams Peter Ravn Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB 31974 OT : BASF, World Cup & TDI braddito Thu 2/7/2002 3 KB 31975 RE: [tadream] OT : BASF, World Cup & TDI Peter Ravn Thu 2/7/2002 4 KB From: TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:17 am Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: BASF experiences At 10:41 07.02.02 , you wrote: >> In my 5,5 minidisc years did I never have any dropouts/pops (more than 500 >> MD's in different brands) but now BASF (EMTEC) do the job :-( >> and also now on a CD audio (done at 1*speed).... > >I don't buy BASF/EMTEC audio cdr's these days because I find them a bit too >expensive, but I bought some in the past and had no problems with them. > *Bought some recently... no problems with them at all. In fact, they are among the most compatible disc brands in regard to old and slightly defective CD-players... no problem whatsoever. >> German quality ? :-( > >Don't believe the hype. .but you will definetly see some high German quality >at this years' World Cup football tournament ;-)) > *Harf, harf... good joke... :-) Let´s see which round we´ll drop out in... >Heiko Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31973 OT: Bryan Adams Peter Ravn Thu 2/7/2002 2 KB 31974 OT : BASF, World Cup & TDI braddito Thu 2/7/2002 3 KB 31975 RE: [tadream] OT : BASF, World Cup & TDI Peter Ravn Thu 2/7/2002 4 KB From: Peter Ravn Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 12:05 pm Subject: OT: Bryan Adams Hi, This evening will I go to Valby Hallen to see Bryan Adams first 2002 concert - I wish it was TD instead ... nothing wrong with Adams but... :-) Jarre did perform there twice back in 1997 now he plans a mega open air concert in Denmark 6. and 7.9. ... nothing wrong with Jarre but... :-) Peter Peter Ravn pr@r... & peter@r... From: 'braddito' Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 12:55 pm Subject: OT : BASF, World Cup & TDI I can't believe Germany got seeded in to such an easy group, but at least I know I'm free to go on holiday after the first round. Anyway, the Speedway World Cup will probably be more exciting and England are hosting it this year - we'll still get knocked out early, but we can enjoy all the other teams then. By the way Martin, I've noticed that you post from TDI, but it wasn't until I checked the cover of DM3 while listening to it with my son last night that I saw you got a mention in the 'Thanks to' section. I suspect a lot of us would like to be in your shoes, or is it not as interesting/ glamourous as we might think ? Thanks to all who have given feedback on BASF CDR's, but it looks like HP are probably the ones to go with for trading (as they seem to be Taiyo Yuden produced) if Kodak have permanently stopped production as noted by one of the guys who responded. Toby > >> German quality ? :-( > > > >Don't believe the hype. .but you will definetly see some high German quality > >at this years' World Cup football tournament ;-)) > > > > *Harf, harf... good joke... :-) Let´s see which round we´ll drop out in... > > >Heiko > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31975 RE: [tadream] OT : BASF, World Cup & TDI Peter Ravn Thu 2/7/2002 4 KB From: Peter Ravn Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 1:16 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] OT : BASF, World Cup & TDI Kodak has stopped - that was my favourite brand. Germany is of course going to win again :-) some time... BUT Danish Dynamite or the french army will prevent it, because when Denmark and France meet in the start one of a tournament one of those countries will win overall: Like Europe 1984 - France, 1992 - Denmark, and WC 1998 - France... !!! Greetings, Danish Dynamite -- Original Message -- >I can't believe Germany got seeded in to such an easy group, but at >least I know I'm free to go on holiday after the first round. Anyway, >the Speedway World Cup will probably be more exciting and England are >hosting it this year - we'll still get knocked out early, but we can >enjoy all the other teams then. > >By the way Martin, I've noticed that you post from TDI, but it wasn't >until I checked the cover of DM3 while listening to it with my son >last night that I saw you got a mention in the 'Thanks to' section. I >suspect a lot of us would like to be in your shoes, or is it not as >interesting/ glamourous as we might think ? > >Thanks to all who have given feedback on BASF CDR's, but it looks >like HP are probably the ones to go with for trading (as they seem to >be Taiyo Yuden produced) if Kodak have permanently stopped production >as noted by one of the guys who responded. > >Toby > >> >> German quality ? :-( >> > >> >Don't believe the hype. .but you will definetly see some high >German quality >> >at this years' World Cup football tournament ;-)) >> > >> >> *Harf, harf... good joke... :-) Let´s see which round we´ll drop >out in... >> >> >Heiko >> >> Best regards, >> >> Martin Kasprzak >> TDI- Music- Support. >> Tel:-49-30-23620995 >> Fax:-49-30-23620996 >> >> Visit our Website at: >> >> www.tdimusic.com >> >> Have a nice day! > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Peter Ravn pr@r... & peter@r... From: 'Michael Jean' Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 3:51 pm Subject: OT: Rick Wright ZEE I have been planning to transfer this 1984 vinyl album by Pink Floyd keyboardist Richard Wright to CDR because I have never been able to find it on CD. Does anyone know for sure whether it was re-issued on disc? Or is there anyone who may have already done a clean transfer, so I could save some time (as well as some clicks and pops)? Regards, Michael A. Jean The Brookings Institution, Room 821 1775 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20036-2188 TEL: (202)-797-6214 FAX: (202)-797-2479 EMAIL: mjean@b... http://www.brookings.edu [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31985 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE scoobarama Fri 2/8/2002 3 KB 32485 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE Michael A Jean Sat 3/2/2002 4 KB 32487 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE Wade Gordon Sat 3/2/2002 4 KB 32488 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE C. Chambers Sat 3/2/2002 2 KB 32007 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE Brian Stewart Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB From: 'richter_arne' Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 4:23 pm Subject: Re: Fauni-Gena --- In tadream@y..., Mark Filipak wrote: >I don't think we can delve too deeply for hidden meaning. It >probably isn't worth pursuing further. Just enjoy the ambience. Agreed - but it was important to stop the false information about it being a park in Berlin before it ends up in the history books... Arne From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 4:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena richter_arne wrote: > > --- In tadream@y..., Mark Filipak wrote: > >I don't think we can delve too deeply for hidden meaning. It > >probably isn't worth pursuing further. Just enjoy the ambience. > > Agreed - but it was important to stop the false information about it > being a park in Berlin before it ends up in the history books... ~LOL~ ... You are right there! On the Beyond_EM list Gary Andrews posted a message an hour ago asking if what he'd read was true: Hans Zimmer began his career playing with Tangerine Dream. I've never been able to determine whether the publicity folks at the record labels take too many drugs, too few, or simply, the wrong type. (Not me though. I'm clean.) Ciao -- Mark From: atye@a... Date: Thu Feb 7, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: @ the used CD store today.... While looking at soundtracks in my local used CD store....I came across one entitled 'Watch The Skies', a compilation of various space themed soundtrack music by the original artists. Two of them caught my attention. 'Tommyknocker suite' by C. Franke and 'Dark Skies' (a former USA TV show) by M. Hoenig. Both of these tracks were listed as 'previously unreleased'. Is this CD worth $7.99 ?? How 'rare' are these songs ?? Just wondering..... Alex ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 1:34 am Subject: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading All 8 covers for the tree are finished and ready for downloading and printing. You can find them here: http://www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree/ Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31982 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Mark Filipak Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31983 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Deb H-J Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31984 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Éric Rochon Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31989 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Heiko Heerssen Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31991 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Matthew Sawyer Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31992 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Heiko Heerssen Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31993 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading albenson Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31994 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Matthew Sawyer Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31998 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading odean@m... Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 1:48 am Subject: Steve Roach and Paul Ellis Live in Portland Oregon I'm proud to announce the second annual 'Evening of Visionary Electronic Music' featuring Steve Roach and Paul Ellis, June 29th at the Aladdin Theater in Portland Oregon, 7:00 PM. This will be Steve's first Northwest solo performance ever. Be prepared for a night of ambient soundworlds high and deep, morphing into thundering sequences, tribal grooves and hypnotic zonescapes. Tickets are available now at Click\ here: ticketmaster.com - ALADDIN THEATRE or: http://www.ticketmaster.com/cgi/venues.idc?vaxname=sea&venuenum=167 We are each presenting a solo set and somewhere in the flow a live improvised portion will occur as we interlock our gear and let the music fly in the grand tradition of classic sequencer driven music. We have some visual surprises in store too. The Aladdin is a beautiful old vaudeville theater from the turn of the century outfitted with a state of the art sound system... A perfect place to take it all in. Plan to be catapulted into the mystic of deep listening. It will be a night to remember! Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 2:23 am Subject: Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading This is going to be the most beautiful bootleg set the world has ever seen. Thank you, Gustavo, Maff, and Marko, for such gorgeous artwork! Thank you, Heiko, for the source material and the motivation! Thank you, Joe, for organizing and managing it! Thank you, all who mastered the discs, for being the engines! Thank you, all who are branches, for being the gears! Thank you, Edgar and Martin, for allowing it to happen! And thank you, Tangerine Dream, for the wonderful and amazing music! I love you all. -- Mark Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > All 8 covers for the tree are finished and ready for downloading and > printing. You can find them here: > > http://www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree/ > > Maff From: Deb H-J Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 2:36 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Maff: *Wow* and *wow* again! Very nice work! Deb H-J dhj4@y... --- Matthew Sawyer wrote: > All 8 covers for the tree are finished and ready for > downloading and > printing. You can find them here: > > http://www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree/ > > > Maff > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Éric Rochon Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 2:59 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Got to applause real hard ! Very nice work ! Can't wait to hear the music !! Eric From: 'scoobarama' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 3:34 am Subject: Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE I've never seen this album released on CD but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Quite a nice LP, and seeing your mention of it here made me go digging in my collection to verify I still owned a copy of it! Luckily I do and it is a pristine copy, Michael. I'll be transferring it over to CD-R myself simply for the convenience of the format. Let me know if you want me to burn an extra for you. I'm certain this one will be nice and quiet, plus I always do a little cleanup afterward with Sound Forge just in case. Michael Surber --- In tadream@y..., 'Michael Jean' wrote: > I have been planning to transfer this 1984 vinyl album by Pink Floyd keyboardist Richard Wright to CDR because I have never been able to find it on CD. > > Does anyone know for sure whether it was re-issued on disc? > > Or is there anyone who may have already done a clean transfer, so I could save some time (as well as some clicks and pops)? > > Regards, > > > Michael A. Jean Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32485 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE Michael A Jean Sat 3/2/2002 4 KB 32487 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE Wade Gordon Sat 3/2/2002 4 KB 32488 Re: OT: Rick Wright ZEE C. Chambers Sat 3/2/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 4:00 am Subject: OT: GraphEdit - Play, rip, and make DVDs, DiVX, MP3, WAV, ...more Hi. Having trouble playing DVDs? Would you like to rip audio and video? For me, the answer to both were 'Yes'. No soft DVD players would work reliably on my system. Rippers produced stuttering WAV files. Not any longer. Check this out: http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/graphedit.html What it is: Have you ever played 'The Incredible Machine'? Well, this is an incredible machine for ripping DVD and DiVX and making them too, and for converting MP3s etc. It looks like you can build almost any audio or video processor with GraphEdit. All you have to do is plug the modules together. I'm running Win98SE and this is the first tool with which I've been able to play a DVD straight through without locking up. And I've flawlessly ripped DVD audio with it too. If you download it and want help, I'll send you some of the '.grf' machines I've built and that work. Enjoy! -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31987 Re: OT: GraphEdit - Play, rip, and make DVDs, DiV Victor Rek Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 31990 Re: OT: GraphEdit - Play, rip, and make DVDs, DiV Mark Filipak Fri 2/8/2002 3 KB From: Victor Rek Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 4:13 am Subject: RE: [tadream] OT: GraphEdit - Play, rip, and make DVDs, DiVX, MP3, WAV, ...more Mark - no SPAM please. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Filipak [SMTP:filipak@e...] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:01 PM To: Tadream List; Beyond_EM List Subject: [tadream] OT: GraphEdit - Play, rip, and make DVDs, DiVX, MP3, WAV, ...more Hi. Having trouble playing DVDs? Would you like to rip audio and video? From: 'albenson' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 5:33 am Subject: Re: The 'tree' of course! ~lol~ Hey gang -- I just wanted to say this... Having now downloaded the zip file with the tree cover artwork for the 'Tangerine Tree' in a word it's fabulous. Hats off to Maff, Jobim & Marin. BTW: I also liked J. Gordon's tree idea and_you_just leave them right there in the Tadream file section. We may have use for them yet... ;-) The actual number of TD diehards involved in this project is immense. Least it be for me to name the names but to (in no particular order): 3N, Jabberwock, Danish Dynamite, Tentbuckum, Federico, and my old TD friend and colleague T-Spect Le. Of course, Joe (our fearless leader), who did everything humanly possible to make this work out right and fair. Last, but not least, my good TD friend Heiko of Seevetal who had the vision and guts to start the TD ball rolling in the first place. I say to thee, 'Bravo Heiko!' The reason I became a TD diehard was to hear this incredible music. The only way you could get it was to become one... ;-) For those of you that are already familiar with these TD live concerts -- prepare yourselves for a new level in sound quality. And, for those of you that have yet to hear it... All I can say is fasten your TD safety belts -- it's going to be the ride of your life and all the right stuff that real diehard T-dreams are made off. One constructive thought to TDI... It's stated on each and every cover the following: 'Produced by fans for fans - never sell or buy, trade freely.' That about says it_all_for me too... :-))) Finally, to 'Tangerine Dream' the greatest band there ever was! Best Regards, -- Al (the TD's pal) Berkeley, CA / USA http://marspolaris.tripod.com/index.html PS: If I forgot anyone above -- my apologizes. :-( Bless all of the hardworking branches too... :-) PPS: (Private Joke) To Bruce: 'Bring out the hounds, the TD game's afoot!' ~lol~ NP: You all know the bottom line... Just about_anything_so long as it's ~TANGERINE DREAM~ ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:06 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > All 8 covers for the tree are finished and ready for downloading and > printing. You can find them here: > > http://www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree/ To quote Professor Mota (sp?), the announcer of the Washington Lisner Auditorium 1977 recording: 'you guys are great' :-) Just one small correction, the total playing time of Bilbao 1976 is not 1.54,29 but only 1.14,29...sad but true ;-) Regards Heiko From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: GraphEdit - Play, rip, and make DVDs, DiVX, MP3, WAV, ...more Spam? Look, if there was a bad dealer -- a crook -- would a warning be spam? Of course not. Well, what about a good experience? What the hell use is a list like this if people can't exchange information about things that work? Is this list only to exchange reminiscences about where we were and what we were doing when we first heard thus-and-such TD track? I don't think so. I don't have any economic stake in GraphEdit, so I don't think what I posted can be considered spam. I'm sorry you were offended, Vic. Ciao -- Mark Victor Rek wrote: > > Mark - no SPAM please. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [SMTP:filipak@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:01 PM > To: Tadream List; Beyond_EM List > Subject: [tadream] OT: GraphEdit - Play, rip, and make DVDs, DiVX, MP3, WAV, ...more > > Hi. > > Having trouble playing DVDs? Would you like to rip audio and video? From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading From: 'Heiko Heerssen' > Just one small correction, the total playing time of Bilbao 1976 is not > 1.54,29 but only 1.14,29...sad but true ;-) Are you sure Heiko? I'm going by the times in your concert list, Maff From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:21 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > > Just one small correction, the total playing time of Bilbao 1976 is not > > 1.54,29 but only 1.14,29...sad but true ;-) > > Are you sure Heiko? I'm going by the times in your concert list, aargh!..where's my cup of Java? ;-) of course 1.54,29 is the correct time! regards sleepy Heiko From: 'albenson' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:38 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Al sends Heiko a big & piping hot steaming 'Cappuccino' from the Met in Bezerkeley... ;-) Best Always, Your TD pal, -- Al ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 8:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Thanks to everyone for the kind words! I've had to make a couple of minor alterations to the credits for volumes 4, 7 and 8. If you've downloaded those ones already, please get them again. Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31998 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading odean@m... Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32013 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading matthewsawyer Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 8:08 am Subject: cd tree hi, sorry for this post, but I've been away from here for quite a while and must have missed most info about the current cd tree. Of course, as a lover of TD's music, I'd be very interested to get my hands on these, but once again (like in the tape tree we once had here) I can not contribute in burning CDs (no burner). Any chance to be a tree endpoint here? Whoever can help me out (I'm located in Dublin, Ireland) would you please email me in private (to avoid cluttering this list) at Armin.Theissen@s... many many many thanks. From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 8:17 am Subject: td/schulze music on bulgarian tv hi, I don't even remember whether I posted this already. So I possibly repeat myself here. Just because I found it funny. I spend Xmas/New Years Eve in Bulgaria and watched some reviews of the year 2001 on bulgarian TV (bulgarian politics and events in general). It was all over accompanied with music of TD and Klaus Schulze, all sorts of stuff from mid 70s to today! There was a real expert at work. Most notably they played the first track of '7 letters from Tibet' along with the pictures of the collapsing WTC. armin From: 'Paul Lawler' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 8:41 am Subject: td remix on UKtv Have any of the other UK listmembers seen the recent ad for 'The Bill' ? It sounds like someone has written a dance track with loops from Wavelength . Does anyone know anything else about it ? it sounds quite good . Paul From: odean@m... Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 2:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading At 08:04 AM 2/8/02 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks to everyone for the kind words! > >I've had to make a couple of minor alterations to the credits for volumes 4, >7 and 8. If you've downloaded those ones already, please get them again. > > >Maff Have these changes been made to the 'zip' file as well? Thanks, Oscar http://www.TheVirtualBiz.com/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32013 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading matthewsawyer Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 11:19 am Subject: Dante's inferno Thanks peer 2 peer network, i've got the 2 set of TD'S Dante's inferno. I have an question: has someone the lyrics ?? this because English is not my native language. thanks Bert Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32000 Re: Dante's inferno Gustavo Jobim Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32002 Re: Dante's inferno Hulshoff, Bert Fri 2/8/2002 4 KB 32003 Re: Dante's inferno Heiko Heerssen Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32025 Re: Dante's inferno Victor Rek Sat 2/9/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:50 pm Subject: Re: Dante's inferno You mean second set? there is a second set of Bernau2001? or is it another concert? I too would like to know about the lyrics. I can't understand anything. I can't even tell if it's English, German or Cantonese. > Thanks peer 2 peer network, i've got the 2 set of TD'S Dante's inferno. > I have an question: has someone the lyrics ?? > this because English is not my native language. > thanks > Bert From: Christian Villazón Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 1:01 pm Subject: Tree Hello, Great work!!! Thanks to Heiko, Gustavo, Maff, Marko and Joe for that excellent work and all the people of the tree for make this possible. Of course thanks to TD for that great music Christian From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 1:03 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dante's inferno i think the first and second set are the same concert but one evening and one night show look at http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/Nieoficjalne_91-____/Dante_sInfernoOpis/ dante_sinfernoopis.html -----Original Message----- From: Gustavo Jobim [mailto:gustavojobim@n...] Sent: vrijdag 8 februari 2002 13:51 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] Re: Dante's inferno You mean second set? there is a second set of Bernau2001? or is it another concert? I too would like to know about the lyrics. I can't understand anything. I can't even tell if it's English, German or Cantonese. > Thanks peer 2 peer network, i've got the 2 set of TD'S Dante's inferno. > I have an question: has someone the lyrics ?? > this because English is not my native language. > thanks > Bert ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 1:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Dante's inferno > i think the first and second set are the same concert but one evening > and one night show look at that's right. The first show started at 8.30 pm, the second at 11pm. Both shows were pretty much identical, I couldn't make out any difference between them. Regards Heiko From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 8:20 pm Subject: [tree] note about Inferno cover Hello folks, thanks for the nice words about the artwork. We all did a great job indeed, and I learned a lot about artwork creation myself, thanks to Maff; and thanks also to all who worked and contributed with this project! About Bernau 2001, the tracklist is divided in 13 parts. There will be an official release of this (right?); when it's released, the intention is to substitute the part 1-13 names for the proper official titles. So maybe if you want to save on ink and paper, I think it's better to wait for the updated back cover. well that's it for now. GJ (can't wait to hear the music! :) From: Jens Kilian Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 1223 > From: Olav Neander > Subject: Re: Re: Fauni-Gena > > John Vertical wrote: > > >Well, there's only one place on the Internet which has the words 2fauni > >gena' but no TD connection: > >www.zodiakoverun.purespace.de/Mathildenh%F6he.htm > >It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where then? My Deutch > >is not too good. > > > >Could someone help? > > > > Yes, it's not in Berlin, but it's inside an Adventure Game... :-) The map on that page is based on part of the city of Darmstadt (Hessen). In fact, the most famous part of Darmstadt (lots of Jugendstil architecture). See http://www.tu-darmstadt.de/city/sewue.html (Nothing to do with TD, I'm afraid...) -- mailto:jjk@a... phone:+49-7031-464-7698 (TELNET 778-7698) http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-464-7351 PGP: 06 04 1C 35 7B DC 1F 26 As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, 0x555DA8B5 BB A2 F0 66 77 75 E1 08 so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake] From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 2:37 pm Subject: Dante's Inferno >You mean second set? there is a second set of Bernau2001? or is it >another concert? Gustavo, don't panic, the second concert was identical to the first. (As humanly possible) >I too would like to know about the lyrics. I can't understand anything. >I can't even tell if it's English, German or Cantonese. The lyrics were in many languages, you'd have to be a _real_ language talent to understand them all. cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32008 Re: Dante's Inferno Gustavo Jobim Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32026 Re: Dante's Inferno Victor Rek Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: 'Brian Stewart' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 3:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: Rick Wright ZEE Does anyone know for sure whether it was re-issued on disc? Hi Yes, it was. I've just confirmed this with a Floyd-mad friend. He clearly remembers destroying a copy of this CD (He's very passionate about his Floyd you-know!) because it wasn't up to his expectations. My own memories of it are dim, I remember that I wasn't very taken by it. Best Brian _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 11:10 pm Subject: Re: Dante's Inferno To know that makes me even more eager to hear the official release which hopefully (PLEASE!) will have the printed lyrics in the booklet... > The lyrics were in many languages, you'd have to be a _real_ > language talent to understand them all. > cheers, > klaus From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 4:51 pm Subject: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? A track by TD & Mike Oldfield was mentioned on the Spanish TD list, but probably it's just another 'urban myth'. You can download the MP3 from http://www.tubular-world.com/download/ (Spezial section) and decide for yourself. I was expecting to find 'Tubular Bells', as this is a common mistake, but this is not the case. Anyway this 'Untitled' track sounds to me like a typical Mike Oldfield track, but I couldn't identify it. Antonio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32012 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? michaeljean@e... Fri 2/8/2002 3 KB 32017 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Gustavo Jobim Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32014 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Antonio Nunes Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32020 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? michaeljean@e... Fri 2/8/2002 3 KB 32021 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? michaeljean@e... Fri 2/8/2002 4 KB 32022 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Antonio Nunes Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32023 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Gustavo Jobim Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: 'maggior' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 5:00 pm Subject: [tree] What awesome artwork To all of you that contributed to the artwork, all I can say is WOW! It is very striking and ties together very well across volumes. That part that just blew me away was how you made it so that the spines create a picture when the volumes are standing next to eachother in order. When I first looked at the back covers, I thought there was a mishap and clips of pictures were appended to each image. But then I caught on. What a cool idea! Now I'm even more anxious to get my hands on these CDs. Thanks for all of your hard work! Rich Maggio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32015 The Tangerine Tree dreamstogo Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB 32016 Re: The Tangerine Tree dreamstogo Fri 2/8/2002 3 KB From: 'fozziebear' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:01 pm Subject: Fauni - Gena I thought the name was something to do with astronomy / constellations. Can any star-gazers confirm or deny? David [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'michaeljean@e...' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? I was intrigued, so I gave it a listen... Personally, I don;t think it sounds like either artist... The only TD/Oldfield connection I was aware of was Don Alphonso.... Original Message: ----------------- From: Antonio Nunes np97fa@m... Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:51:35 +0000 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? A track by TD & Mike Oldfield was mentioned on the Spanish TD list, but probably it's just another 'urban myth'. You can download the MP3 from http://www.tubular-world.com/download/ (Spezial section) and decide for yourself. I was expecting to find 'Tubular Bells', as this is a common mistake, but this is not the case. Anyway this 'Untitled' track sounds to me like a typical Mike Oldfield track, but I couldn't identify it. Antonio ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32017 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Gustavo Jobim Fri 2/8/2002 2 KB From: 'matthewsawyer' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:34 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading --- In tadream@y..., odean@m... wrote: > Have these changes been made to the 'zip' file as well? They have, yes. Of course, you won't be able to get at the zip file right now because with great timing my isp webspace just fell over. But it'll be back again later. Maff From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? 'michaeljean@e...' wrote: > > The only TD/Oldfield connection I was aware of was Don Alphonso.... What connection is that? Sorry if it was discussed already here. Antonio From: 'dreamstogo' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 8:33 pm Subject: The Tangerine Tree Wow! and WOW! again. Great idea from Heiko in the first place! Superb organisation by Joe! Fantastic artwork by Maff, Gustavo and Marko! and Thanks to all the Branches and leaves! Fabulous music too from Tangerine Dream! Well done to all of you. Thank you all. Hilary --- In tadream@y..., 'maggior' wrote: > To all of you that contributed to the artwork, all I can say is WOW! > It is very striking and ties together very well across volumes. > > That part that just blew me away was how you made it so that the > spines create a picture when the volumes are standing next to > eachother in order. When I first looked at the back covers, I > thought there was a mishap and clips of pictures were appended to > each image. But then I caught on. What a cool idea! > > Now I'm even more anxious to get my hands on these CDs. > > Thanks for all of your hard work! > > Rich Maggio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32016 Re: The Tangerine Tree dreamstogo Fri 2/8/2002 3 KB From: 'dreamstogo' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 8:51 pm Subject: Re: The Tangerine Tree And a further WOW to all of you who have re-mastered the sound on the CDS. Thanks to you all too! Hilary --- In tadream@y..., 'dreamstogo' wrote: > Wow! and WOW! again. > > Great idea from Heiko in the first place! > Superb organisation by Joe! > Fantastic artwork by Maff, Gustavo and Marko! > and Thanks to all the Branches and leaves! > Fabulous music too from Tangerine Dream! > > Well done to all of you. > > Thank you all. > > Hilary > > > --- In tadream@y..., 'maggior' wrote: > > To all of you that contributed to the artwork, all I can say is > WOW! > > It is very striking and ties together very well across volumes. > > > > That part that just blew me away was how you made it so that the > > spines create a picture when the volumes are standing next to > > eachother in order. When I first looked at the back covers, I > > thought there was a mishap and clips of pictures were appended to > > each image. But then I caught on. What a cool idea! > > > > Now I'm even more anxious to get my hands on these CDs. > > > > Thanks for all of your hard work! > > > > Rich Maggio From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 9:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? The guitar does sound like Mike Oldfield to me, but I have no idea what this is. Doesn't sound like it's a real Oldfield track. But I don't know all his albums, so I have no idea at all. I've never heard of a TD/MO connection in Don Alfonso (?!). >I was intrigued, so I gave it a listen... Personally, I don;t think it sounds like either artist... The only TD/Oldfield connection I was aware of was Don Alphonso.... Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Dean Mitchell' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:59 pm Subject: DIE MEDIANEN VON ZYMBIOLA Is there anyone that can tell me about a recent LP that I have just ordered It is titled DIE MEDIANEN VON ZYMBIOLA. It said it was a limited edition of 50 copies. The music is by Tangerine Dream from 1977 concert at Seattle The Vinyl is coloured blue. I have not seen this Lp listed as either a bootleg or official release. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32036 DIE MEDIANEN VON ZYMBIOLA Klaus Beschorner Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 10:32 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena I plugged the URL into http://world.altavista.com/ and > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vertical [mailto:johnvertical@h...] > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:49 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena > > > > > and Fauni-Gena... (BTW, I think that the latter's a park > in Berlin, > >near the > > > original Zodiak club where Eddie started his career; am I right?) > > > >Huh? Well, I live in Berlin and there is no such park that I know of. > >The famous Zodiak club was located near the 'Hallesches Ufer' in > >Kreuzberg, also no park of that name there. In fact, the name is very > >weird. According to the dictionary, the only possible explanation for > >'Fauni' is the plural of Faun, i.e. a mystic or ancient god that is > >half man half goat similar to the greek Satyr. Don't know what that > >has to do with the bird noises on the track. 'Gena' on the other hand > >seems to be a part of the beek of a bird, so there you have it! > > > >But then again, maybe it was just the name of a good type of weed > >back in 1973, wouldn't be the first time they were inspired by the > >name of such a substance... > > > Well, there's only one place on the Internet which has the > words 2fauni > gena' but no TD connection: > www.zodiakoverun.purespace.de/Mathildenh%F6he.htm > It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where > then? My Deutch > is not too good. > > Could someone help? > > John Vertical > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'michaeljean@e...' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 10:19 pm Subject: RE: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Perhaps I am wrong, but I recall someone telling me many years ago that Edgar was somehow involved in the production of that song... MJ Original Message: ----------------- From: Antonio Nunes np97fa@m... Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:58:38 +0000 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? 'michaeljean@e...' wrote: > > The only TD/Oldfield connection I was aware of was Don Alphonso.... What connection is that? Sorry if it was discussed already here. Antonio ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: 'michaeljean@e...' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 10:36 pm Subject: RE: RE: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? If nothing else, I think both tracks may have appeared on the 'V' comilation album. Perhaps someone who owns it can check for any other connection... MJ Original Message: ----------------- From: michaeljean@e... michaeljean@e... Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:19:10 -0500 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Perhaps I am wrong, but I recall someone telling me many years ago that Edgar was somehow involved in the production of that song... MJ Original Message: ----------------- From: Antonio Nunes np97fa@m... Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:58:38 +0000 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? 'michaeljean@e...' wrote: > > The only TD/Oldfield connection I was aware of was Don Alphonso.... What connection is that? Sorry if it was discussed already here. Antonio ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 11:19 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? 'michaeljean@e...' wrote: > > Perhaps I am wrong, but I recall someone telling me many years ago that Edgar was somehow involved in the production of that song... Yes, I've just found this on the web: 'The German version of Don Alfonso was produced by Tangerine Dream leader Edgar Froese and sung by a drunken rodie of Tangerin Dream who's name was Paul.' Antonio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32023 Re: Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Gustavo Jobim Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 1:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Tangerine Dream feat. Mike Oldfield? Hi folks, I've just confirmed this on the Oldfield list: 'it [Don Alfonso] was produced by edgar froese. The singer was Roland Rolli Paulick, he was a member of TD a short time( on alpha cantauri he played a keyboard ems vcs 3). Now, Roland Paulick lives in berlin and is the chief and owner of a business who prints newspapers and other stuff.' thanks to Alex Schweigert for the info. >Yes, I've just found this on the web: >'The German version of Don Alfonso was produced by Tangerine Dream >leader Edgar Froese and sung by a drunken rodie of Tangerin Dream who's >name was Paul.' >Antonio Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 2:27 am Subject: [tree] Cover art update Some people on the list have asked for larger quality images of volumes 1-3 to print off, and I've added them to the covers site. All the cover files are now available at 300dpi and should print off nicely. http://www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree Also, my ISP problems that were making the zip file unavailable earier have now been fixed. Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32075 Re: [tree] Cover art update Jonathan Holt Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB 32076 Re: [tree] Cover art update Admin Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32118 Re: [tree] Cover art update michael_berling Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB From: Victor Rek Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 1:46 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Dante's inferno I noticed a sequence or two more at the 11PM show. This was a fantastic experience. I have some programs and posters available from this show if anyone is interested. Vic -----Original Message----- From: Heiko Heerssen [SMTP:heiko.heerssen@h...] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 8:14 AM To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Dante's inferno > i think the first and second set are the same concert but one evening > and one night show look at that's right. The first show started at 8.30 pm, the second at 11pm. Both shows were pretty much identical, I couldn't make out any difference between them. Regards Heiko ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Victor Rek Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 3:05 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Dante's Inferno I believe that Inferno has words in Italian, English and Spanish (sung by Iris). I recall see the languages listed somewhere. Was it mentioned on the ElektroBeats show? Vic NP: Navigator - Oceanic Empire (Anderson, Eshihlsen, Peschke) - wonderful! -----Original Message----- From: Klaus Beschorner [SMTP:klaus@c...] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 9:38 AM To: tadream list (mod) Subject: [tadream] Dante's Inferno << File: ATT00029.txt; charset = ISO-8859-2 >> From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 9:30 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Hi all of you! I'm Jarek Wiktorowicz a.k.a 'Jerry'. I'm from Poland, obviously. I was just a reader until now. This is my first letter to you. Just a little question: what about circular labels for the CDs? Is anybody going to create them? 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sawyer [mailto:matthewsawyer@c...] > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 2:35 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > > > All 8 covers for the tree are finished and ready for downloading and > printing. You can find them here: > > http://www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree/ > > > Maff > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 5:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Wow Maff those covers are tremendous! Excellent work. Poly From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 5:13 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Oops, I sent that before I finished. I meant to add that if that's the packaging and the sound is being cleaned up by fans, then TDI should take a long look at what's going on and rather than threatening to sue perhaps you could look at releasing them officially this way and give a cut to those who worked on the project sound / art whatever and of course TD benefits with the largest cut of the pie... Look, it's a labor of love by fans who are going to give their all. People are constantly screaming for classic TD sound here it is ready made. It would sell! TD can continue to make new music to please the fans that prefer the new stuff and the old fans are happy too.... It's a win / win situation.... maybe conservative small runs like a pressing of what? 100 CD's? 500 CD's ? I have no idea what sales are like, but let's say 100 CD's of each show... you're telling me these won't be eaten up? Everyone makes coin. Everyone's happy... I apologize if this has been addressed in one way or another already. I have been extremely busy and haven't been able to follow the threads very closely, just throwing out some thoughts. Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32030 Inferno news on the TDI site Peter Ravn Sat 2/9/2002 3 KB 32042 Re: Inferno news on the TDI site Michael A Jean Sat 2/9/2002 4 KB From: Peter Ravn Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 8:03 am Subject: Inferno news on the TDI site Hi, The TDI mall site, http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html , have been updated about the Inferno release: 'Exclusive website prelaunch of Inferno!!! TDI MUSIC will be prelaunching Tangerine Dream's newest epic album,'Inferno', exclusively on our site. The album is the band's musical vision of the first part of Dante Alighieri's classic 'La Divina Commedia' and features TD's trademark sound plus elusive choral arrangements and the intriguing vocals of Jayney Klimek (... of 'The Other Ones'-fame). The music was premiered to an enchanted audience in Berlin/Bernau's St.-Marien-Kirche last October and now finally sees its release on CD. The officíal release of the album into the retail market is not planned before May/June 2002, therefore, visitors of the TDI-site are hereby getting the chance to obtain Tangerine Dream's newest creation long before it will actually be hitting the shops. TDI MUSIC will prelaunch the release with an exclusive bundle-package - the album should be ready for shipping in approx. 3 weeks. Preorders for the bundle will be taken soon.' Regards, Peter Ravn pr@r... & peter@r... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32042 Re: Inferno news on the TDI site Michael A Jean Sat 2/9/2002 4 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 11:50 am Subject: Re : [tadream] Inferno news on the TDI site Oh no, not another 50 dollar package with a t-shirt and/or a scuba-diving watch I hope... Paul ---------- >De : Peter Ravn >À : tadream@yahoogroups.com >Objet : [tadream] Inferno news on the TDI site >Date : Sam 9 fév 2002 9:03 > > Hi, > The TDI mall site, http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html , have been > updated about the Inferno release: > > 'Exclusive website prelaunch of Inferno!!! > > TDI MUSIC will be prelaunching Tangerine Dream's newest epic album,'Inferno', > exclusively on our site. The album is the band's musical vision of the first > part of Dante Alighieri's classic 'La Divina Commedia' and features TD's > trademark sound plus elusive choral arrangements and the intriguing vocals > of Jayney Klimek (... of 'The Other Ones'-fame). The music was premiered > to an enchanted audience in Berlin/Bernau's St.-Marien-Kirche last October > and now finally sees its release on CD. The officíal release > of the album into the retail market is not planned before May/June 2002, > therefore, visitors of the TDI-site are hereby getting the chance to obtain > Tangerine Dream's newest creation long before it will actually be hitting > the shops. TDI MUSIC will prelaunch the release with an exclusive bundle-package > - the album should be ready for shipping in approx. 3 weeks. > > > Preorders for the bundle will be taken soon.' > > Regards, > > > Peter Ravn > pr@r... & peter@r... > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 12:01 pm Subject: Inferno Release date NEWS Hi all. today I received following NEWS from the Groove Unlimited : TANGERINE DREAM´s newest epic album, 'Inferno'. The album is the band´s musical vision of the first part of Dante Alighieri´s classic 'La Divina Commedia' and features TD´s trademark sound plus elusive choral arrangements and the intriguing vocals of Jayney Klimek (... of 'The Other Ones'-fame). The music was premiered to an enchanted audience in Bernau´s St.-Marien-Kirche last October and now finally sees its release on CD. The official release of the album into the retail market is planned for May/June 2002, the finished product will be available for retailers in March. (Press info) So we wait :-((( Regards heiko - Mr. Optical www.opticaldream.de (Tangerine Dream Fan Homepage) http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 12:45 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena >I plugged the URL into http://world.altavista.com/ and And? Looks like Mr. Scissors Virus is at it again. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32035 Re: Fauni-Gena Marcel Engels Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD / Oldfield? >Hi folks, I've just confirmed this on the Oldfield list: > >'it [Don Alfonso] was produced by edgar froese. The singer was Roland Rolli >Paulick, he was a member of TD a short time( on alpha cantauri he played a >keyboard ems vcs 3). Now, Roland Paulick lives in berlin and is the chief >and owner of a business who prints newspapers and other stuff.' > >thanks to Alex Schweigert for the info. > > >Yes, I've just found this on the web: > >'The German version of Don Alfonso was produced by Tangerine Dream > >leader Edgar Froese and sung by a drunken rodie of Tangerin Dream who's > >name was Paul.' > >Antonio Umm... so this Don Alfonso is some Olfield track remixed by Edgar? What year is it from? And what about the original mp3, is that exactly the Don A. or just fake? John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32037 Re: TD / Oldfield? Antonio Nunes Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 12:59 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena I always liked this title track. For me it gives it a sort of pre-historic edge to it and not only the title track does give it that but also most certainly the music. It's also nice to know that there are some quite good sounding live recordings from that time. I like those atmospheric passages even if there is no sequencer in it. :-) Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 1:40 pm Subject: DIE MEDIANEN VON ZYMBIOLA Dean, I'm quoting my own bootleg updates here: 'Die Medianen von Zymbiola' is a 'The Emerald Beyond', who's matrix number has been scratched out and a hand-made cover replaced the original one. There are no blue vinyl 'Emeralds' , so someone may have packaged you some other hard-to-sell , dust-gathering leftover LP ;-) cheers, klaus From: Antonio Nunes Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 2:17 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD / Oldfield? John Vertical wrote: > Umm... so this Don Alfonso is some Olfield track remixed by Edgar? What year > is it from? And what about the original mp3, is that exactly the Don A. or > just fake? The MP3 I mentioned yesterday is not 'Don Alfonso'. 'Don Alfonso' is a song (with lyrics) and that MP3 is instrumental and quite different. Perhaps Gustavo Jobim could ask on the Oldfield list if anyone knows anything about it. Here is the URL again: http://www.tubular-world.com/download/#special Antonio From: 'E Neal Frost' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 2:24 pm Subject: Okee 2001 CDs? Hello All, I am very glad to see the latest installment of Dreamwatchers Tales is to be released soon, (hopefully there will be more and more......). But does anyone have any info on the Okee Swamp CD from the 2001 gathering? I thought I had heard that there was enough music for a 2 CD release. I am not trying to be a pain, but the music of Marcel and Dave from the 2000 gathering rarely leaves my CD player and I am hungerin' for some new music. Thanks for letting me rant. Neal Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32039 Re: Okee 2001 CDs? Marcel Engels Sat 2/9/2002 3 KB 32058 Re: Okee 2001 CDs? vic rek Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 2:32 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Okee 2001 CDs? Hi Neal, The master CD was at Eric's (from Alfa Centauri fame) place and in the midst of mastering his equipment broke down. Now a new master went to Dave Law from SMD and he's doing the final bits. It should be out very soon now. Though it's going to be a single CD. Thanks for the kind words! I must say that Oke2000 turned out quite good and this new one is no exception. Next to the long tracks, expect some fun bits too. :-) Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... > From: E Neal Frost [mailto:strat95@b...] > > Hello All, > > I am very glad to see the latest installment of Dreamwatchers > Tales is to be > released soon, (hopefully there will be more and more......). But does > anyone have any info on the Okee Swamp CD from the 2001 > gathering? I thought > I had heard that there was enough music for a 2 CD release. > > I am not trying to be a pain, but the music of Marcel and Dave > from the 2000 > gathering rarely leaves my CD player and I am hungerin' for some > new music. > > Thanks for letting me rant. > Neal > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'michael_berling' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 4:18 pm Subject: [tree] SHN subtree is ready to lauch Hi to all, especially to the SHN subtree members! I've just finished creating the SHN masters from the redbook CDs I got from Heiko yesterday and will now burn the copies for the first level branches of the SHN subtree (who were originally planned to be seeded by Heiko directly). The CDs will be shipped early next week. For those who wanted to know how many CDs they will need: The compression rate of SHN is not as high as I had expected, thus it will need six CDs (instead of ten for the redbook edition). Here the data: Disc 1 - Volume 1 (Nottingham) - 510 MB Disc 2 - Volume 2 & 3 (Sheffield & Bernau) - 690 MB Disc 3 - Volume 4 (Washington) - 641 MB Disc 4 - Volume 5 (Frankfurt) - 218 MB (sic!) Disc 5 - Volume 6 (Bilbao) - 651 MB Disc 6 - Volume 7 & 8 (Croydon & Berlin) - 576 MB Thus you will need at least two blank 700 MB CDs; the rest can be 650 MB discs. It's a pity, but though I juggled the SHN's on I on, there was no way to get them on five discs -- the only possibility might have been to split the long concerts of Washington or Bilbao on two discs, but I didn't think that would be a good idea. BTW: The music is really GREAT! I hope you all will receive this stuff very soon! Many thanks to all who have been involved in this fan project! Yoe've done a great work! Regards Michael Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32262 Re: [tree] SHN subtree is ready to lauch mars103nl Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB From: 'michael_berling' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 4:33 pm Subject: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition And another hi, specially for the SHN tree members... I've done some additional cover artwork for the SHN edition. This is not at all to offend the 'official tree artists' -- they have done a great job and I like that artwork very much. I think it's even better than some of the TDI artwork -- especially as it contains no errors... ;-) But I thought it would come handy if the SHN edition CDs would get their own artwork, as some of the volumes are combined on one disc, thus the official artwork does not fit always. So each SHN CD comes with an additional front cover that is contained on the CD as a jpg file ready to be printed. There is no backside artwork, as I'm using ultra slim cases for my data CDs that have no room for a backside insert. If you want to have a look, the artwork is downloadable from the following address, too: http://www.voices-in-the-net.de/shn-tree Please note: This page is NOT part of Voices In The Net; I used only the same webspace. And this page will be removed in some weeks as I'm running low on webspace, and with the next update of Voices In The Net this page will most pobably be removed again. I had planned to do an update this weekend, but then something more important happened... ;-) And please note: You don't have to download the files from the web; they are contained on the CDs themselves. But -- blame on me: I have forgotten to add the official redbook artwork to the CD masters, too. Too late now, sorry! Best regards Michael Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32043 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition Antonio Nunes Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB 32050 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition michael_berling Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB 32044 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition C. Chambers Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB 32045 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition Gustavo Jobim Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB 32049 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition michael_berling Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB 32052 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition michael_berling Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB 32062 Converting the shn edition H. Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32146 OT: Tron Marcel Engels Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 4:54 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Inferno news on the TDI site Jayney is the same one who sang Dreamtime and on TOTT, right? MJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Ravn [mailto:pr@r...] > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:04 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Inferno news on the TDI site > > > Hi, > The TDI mall site, http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html , have been > updated about the Inferno release: > > 'Exclusive website prelaunch of Inferno!!! > > TDI MUSIC will be prelaunching Tangerine Dream's newest epic > album,'Inferno', > exclusively on our site. The album is the band's musical vision > of the first > part of Dante Alighieri's classic 'La Divina Commedia' and features TD's > trademark sound plus elusive choral arrangements and the intriguing vocals > of Jayney Klimek (... of 'The Other Ones'-fame). The music was premiered > to an enchanted audience in Berlin/Bernau's St.-Marien-Kirche last October > and now finally sees its release on CD. The officíal release > of the album into the retail market is not planned before May/June 2002, > therefore, visitors of the TDI-site are hereby getting the chance > to obtain > Tangerine Dream's newest creation long before it will actually be hitting > the shops. TDI MUSIC will prelaunch the release with an exclusive > bundle-package > - the album should be ready for shipping in approx. 3 weeks. > > > Preorders for the bundle will be taken soon.' > > Regards, > > > Peter Ravn > pr@r... & peter@r... > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Antonio Nunes Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Artwork for SHN edition michael_berling wrote: > And please note: You don't have to download the files from the web; > they are contained on the CDs themselves. But -- blame on me: I have > forgotten to add the official redbook artwork to the CD masters, too. > Too late now, sorry! Perhaps it's not too late! If the CDR is not 'closed' you can add new sessions until the disc is full. If you use Easy CD Creator, the default is 'Close Session and Leave Disc Open', and so the addition of more files is possible. You only have to import the previous session when you add new data (I think Easy CD Creator does it too by default). Antonio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32050 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition michael_berling Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Feb 8, 2002 7:23 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Artwork for SHN edition > And please note: You don't have to download the files from the web; > they are contained on the CDs themselves. But -- blame on me: I have > forgotten to add the official redbook artwork to the CD masters, too. > Too late now, sorry! Great idea on the SHN art...I usually just keep my SHN's on a spindle for storage purposes, but the slim cases will probably be nice for these. For the official artwork, thayt is easy enough to fix...the branches can easily add it on, or at minimum, my SHN leaf will get it. Thanks to everyone! Craig From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 7:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Artwork for SHN edition >And another hi, specially for the SHN tree members... >I've done some additional cover artwork for the SHN edition. Those covers are great!! I'll definitely print them too, with the redbook covers :) just one question: who's that on the frankfurt cover?! GJ np: P.Glass - Rubric Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32049 Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition michael_berling Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: 'convention24' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 8:34 pm Subject: Tangerine Dream(The greatest of all time)? Just like meeting your future wife for the first time,just like the first sip of a wonderful scotch whiskey,just when your favorite team scores the winner in injury time,just when your offspring are born,just when you snuggle up to Edgar the KINGS towel at night,just when i put that TD cd in the system,i think to myself Tangerine Dream,you are without doubt the GREATEST God bless you. Best regards Colin South Wales. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32047 Re: Tangerine Dream(The greatest of all time)? orangefunk_2000 Sat 2/9/2002 2 KB From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 9:32 pm Subject: Re: Tangerine Dream(The greatest of all time)? --- In tadream@y..., 'convention24' wrote: > scores the winner in injury time,just when your offspring are > just when you snuggle up to Edgar the KINGS towel at night,just did I miss something?? Snuggling up to Edgar???!! :-) Is there something you' like to tell the rest of the list?? ;-) But yeah, the music can sometimes get you like that... My fav TD moments really make me remember what it was like listening to TD for the first time back in 84/85.. like the sequencer/flute interlude on Bent Cold Sidewalk for instance.. just wonderfl even now after all these years Peace Orangefunk From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 9:39 pm Subject: Best 1970s bootleg I don't get off much on the later TD sound but the old sound is just amazing. I just listened to the Washington and Montreal shows from 1977 and can't believe how different they sound from one another (esp after hearing TD do the same concerts note for note during the 80s...) which just goes to show how they played everything live back then.. must have been amazing to have actually been there.. and those other tracks which don't appear on Encore in any form are just so amazing! Has anyone figured out where Cherokee Lane on Encore was played yet?? Is the opinion that it was pieced together from multiple concerts. Monolight from Washington 77 is exactly the same as on the LP, which I find even more astonisjing as they don't even soundlike they've been remixed. Direct to 2 track perhaps???!! I love the radio commentaries too (the Washington one is great!), I really wish they'd release some of this stuff officially..Hmmm! So what are your fav TD boots from this period? Peace orangefunk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32053 Re: Best 1970s bootleg Matthew Sawyer Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32060 Re: Best 1970s bootleg John Vertical Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB 32061 Re: Best 1970s bootleg Marcel Engels Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB 32108 Re: Best 1970s bootleg braddito Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB From: 'michael_berling' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 10:41 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition --- In tadream@y..., Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > >And another hi, specially for the SHN tree members... > >I've done some additional cover artwork for the SHN edition. > > Those covers are great!! > I'll definitely print them too, with the redbook covers :) > just one question: who's that on the frankfurt cover?! > > GJ np: P.Glass - Rubric > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... The man is... no, it's not Ed... ;-) It's Rainer Werner Fassbinder, a quiet famous German director and artist who had died in 1982 and for whom the Memorial Concert was organized. The last two minutes are a reaarrngement of 'Flying Kamikaze', a track from 'Kamikaze 1989', a movie from 1982 Edgar had provided the soundtrack for and Fassbinder had played the lead (most probably his last). Thus these two minutes are an excellent kind of obituary... Regards Michael From: 'michael_berling' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 10:46 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition --- In tadream@y..., Antonio Nunes wrote: > Perhaps it's not too late! If the CDR is not 'closed' you can add new > sessions until the disc is full. If you use Easy CD Creator, the default > is 'Close Session and Leave Disc Open', and so the addition of more > files is possible. You only have to import the previous session when you > add new data (I think Easy CD Creator does it too by default). > > Antonio No, sorry, the discs had been closed already. Maybe the sub-branches can add the redbook artwork when making copies for their sub-sub- branches... ;-) Michael From: 'Miguel Farah F.' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 10:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Mood-affecting albums Art Of Vision [31/01/2002 10:45] dijo/said: >What albums have strong influence on your mood? That's >very important part of TD music, at least for me. >[...] Now that you mention it, Logos always manages to cheer me up. In an odd sort of way, the Logos track 'hooks' my mood, and then Dominion brings it up. Nothing to do with TD, but what the hey: when I am *furious* (not just angry), I put on the VROOOM EP by King Crimson. Somehow it manages to dissipate the rage and I'm left in a 'poker player' state. -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel@n... #include // http://www.nn.cl/~miguel <*> 'Resistance is useless!' - anonymous vogon guard From: 'michael_berling' Date: Sat Feb 9, 2002 10:59 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Artwork for SHN edition BTW: If someone is curious about the strange scene on the cover for disc 2 that lurks behind the misty clouds: It's not only a mysterious semblance at the strand of nightmares (fitting quite well for Nottingham 74) but in fact some detail of an illustration by the French artist Gustave Doré (1832-83) made for Dante's Inferno... There are illustrations for part two and three of The Divine Comedy as well... Regards Michael Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32062 Converting the shn edition H. Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32146 OT: Tron Marcel Engels Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 2:32 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Best 1970s bootleg From: 'orangefunk_2000' > Has anyone figured out where Cherokee Lane on Encore was played > yet?? Is the opinion that it was pieced together from multiple > concerts. Monolight from Washington 77 is exactly the same as on the > LP, which I find even more astonisjing as they don't even soundlike > they've been remixed. Direct to 2 track perhaps???!! After hearing quite a few 77 concerts I'd say it's either pieced together from live performances or a studio version. I believe the common concenus is that Coldwater Canyon is also a studio piece, and Desert Dream is a mix of some studio material and a short excerpt from 'Overture'. Monolight though is definately 100% untouched from the Washington show. > So what are your fav TD boots from this period? My personal favorite era is 76, before Edgar went completely OTT on the guitar riffs. No offence - when he got it right during the 77 tours it was fantastic (particularly the Detriot and Washington show), but IMHO a lot of time it was rather meandering. And the less said about 1978 the better. 1976 was the golden age - the shows in Berlin, Brussels (was this the first appearance of passages from Monolight?), Manchester etc. Fantastic stuff. Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 2:47 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Final Tree Structure Posted! I'm sorry. I'm pretty stupid when it comes to computers. I've tried that web site, but I don't see where I am in the scheme of things. Can somebody just tell me who my branch is? I'm five days and 150 emails behind. Thanks. 8-) Dell All IMO of course. >http://www.tadream.net/tree >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 2:56 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Final Tree Structure Posted! From: 'Adele Outland' > I'm sorry. I'm pretty stupid when it comes to computers. I've > tried that web site, but I don't see where I am in the scheme > of things. Can somebody just tell me who my branch is? > I'm five days and 150 emails behind. Thanks. If you go to the static tree list at http://www.tadream.net/tree/treestructure/alphaname.htm you'll see your name right at the top of the list. Your branch is Robert Grabowsky. Scan through the page to find is email. Maff From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 3:18 am Subject: tree I am dieing waiting for the disks to make it to this end of the world. It is eating me alive reading all the posts, seeing all the art works, and the reviews... I am hating all of you who have heard the music. In a good way of course. :) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32063 tree Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB From: tadreaming@c... Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 5:26 am Subject: Re: Fw: Belle Alliance > > Martyn > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 10:22 PM > Subject: Belle Alliance > > > > I have a Belle Alliance CD by Ashra on eBay starting at $9.99 if anyone is > interested. > > Thanks, > > Martyn > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32059 Re: Fw: Belle Alliance Mark Filipak Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 6:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okee 2001 CDs? Yes, the Okefenokee Dreams 2001 CD is almost ready - but no official release date yet. I have approved the final graphics and once the CD master is ready, it should be available shortly. The Okefenokee 2002 gathering is happening in April and we are basically all booked - contact me if you are still interested in attending. Check http://akorn.net/~tangerinedream/ricochet.htm for more info. More info to follow as we get closer to the CD release date and the gathering. Vic > Thanks for the kind words! > I must say that Oke2000 turned out quite good and this new > one is no exception. Next to the long tracks, expect some fun > bits too. :-) > > Marcel From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 8:55 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fw: Belle Alliance tadreaming@c... wrote: > > > I have a Belle Alliance CD by Ashra on eBay starting at $9.99 if anyone is > > interested. -- NEWS FLASH -- Dateline Maarheeze, Netherlands (Groove Unlimited, www.groove.nl) 8 Feb 2002: > ASHRA - Blackouts, Correlations and Belle Alliance. 3 very wanted CD's! > And the good news is that on February 21st they all will be re-released!! Jes thought y'all would like to know. -- Mark From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 10:58 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Best 1970s bootleg >After hearing quite a few 77 concerts I'd say it's either pieced together >from live performances or a studio version. I believe the common concenus >is >that Coldwater Canyon is also a studio piece, and Desert Dream is a mix of >some studio material and a short excerpt from 'Overture'. Monolight though >is definately 100% untouched from the Washington show. Which section (of Desert Dream) would be from Oedipus Tyrannus? I've heard that it would be more than just 1 section, with some studio bridges and a small live clip at the end... John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32061 Re: Best 1970s bootleg Marcel Engels Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 11:19 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Best 1970s bootleg > From: John Vertical [mailto:johnvertical@h...] > > Which section (of Desert Dream) would be from Oedipus Tyrannus? > I've heard that it would be more than just 1 section, with some studio > bridges and a small live clip at the end... The beginning until the sequencer starts. It's all atmospheric sounds. Haven't played it for a long time so I'm not 100% sure but I remember it didn't had any sequencers in it. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: 'H.' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 6:40 am Subject: Converting the shn edition Hi. I will have to convert the shn files for my 'sub branch' to redbook audio. Are there any hints about that? I'd like to know if there is a preferred gap size (if the audio cds contains several tracks) and if the audio cd should contain markers. thanks Herbert Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32146 OT: Tron Marcel Engels Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 12:05 pm Subject: tree Still I can't contact my supplier. Any suggestions? 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ From: '3N' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 12:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree HeY! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz > Still I can't contact my supplier. Any suggestions? > > 'Jerry' Yes, you would try on monday, when your branch-supplier will back to his office. Regards JerzyK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Olimpiada Salt Lake City 2002 >>> http://olimpiada2002.interia.pl/ >>> Aktualnosci >>> Terminarz >>> Areny >>> Galerie >>> Kadra... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32067 Re: tree Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 1:12 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Final Tree Structure Posted! FYI: the database at yahoogroups is the 'official' source for tree info: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database mainly because it is easiest to maintain. I will update the static table once in a while if necessary (and I've changed the info page to indicate this). And an important reminder: please keep communications of a one-on-one nature off the list. If we develop an unresponsive branch, then contact me. I can graft it elsewhere on the tree, and it won't be a problem. However, if you have sent something to someone for trade and then they don't respond, I'm sorry to insist that is between the two of you, not the rest of the list. I will still be happy to help by grafting you into another branchline, but please never discuss personal details of your trades on list, or use the list to vilify or complain about a trade. Of course, nothing wrong with 'I got my disks and wet myself today!' or whatever. But I think you know what I mean. Thanks, Joe np: shpongle: Divine Moments of Truth (anyone ever notice how parts of this sound like a Jean-Michel Jarre song from Zoolook?) -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Sawyer To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Sent: 2/9/02 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Final Tree Structure Posted! From: 'Adele Outland' > I'm sorry. I'm pretty stupid when it comes to computers. I've > tried that web site, but I don't see where I am in the scheme > of things. Can somebody just tell me who my branch is? > I'm five days and 150 emails behind. Thanks. If you go to the static tree list at http://www.tadream.net/tree/treestructure/alphaname.htm you'll see your name right at the top of the list. Your branch is Robert Grabowsky. Scan through the page to find is email. Maff ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: atye@a... Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 6:51 pm Subject: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) Found this in the '100+ Q&A' section on the TDI website while browsing... 64. Roughly what percent of all the TD concerts within the last 25 years has the band taped for themselves? It may sound unbelievable but - there are tapes from each single concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked safely away at TD lawyer's office in London. Edgar must have known very early, that one day ...! Wonder what percentage of those tapes are even playable anymore ?? What a _________ . (fill the blank with the words.....waste, shame, pity, chance, goldmine, ETC...) ATYE (patiently waiting....) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32068 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) Admin Sun 2/10/2002 4 KB 32069 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) Chris Owen Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32070 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) orangefunk_2000 Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32071 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) Admin Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32072 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) orangefunk_2000 Sun 2/10/2002 4 KB 32073 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) Admin Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 6:56 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] tree > Yes, you would try on monday, when your branch-supplier will > back to his > office. > Regards > JerzyK Well, I'll do so. Thanks. I'm really looking forward to listening to the music... cheers 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 7:50 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) I would say I am not surprised but what quality are these? Are they taken off the main board, outside mikes, a box near Edgar foot or what? There are a lot of different ways to record a live show. Like do you want to hear the audience or not. What about only solos to review later on etc. I have been recording local bands for many years now, both live and studio. Depends on what you are after. I almost bet some of the tapes are ruin now or they are of little or no value due to what they contain. He might be holding them there for copywrite purposes in case someone does come up with something from the past. This would be the proof that it was recorded from such and such concert. I feel your pain with not hearing all TD has produced, done, and played. I just don't want to get overly obsessed with this myself. I like the influence but I have to realize that I must grow and do my own thing too. At least that is for me. Each has their own way as well. Maybe they all are the greatest thing known and Edgar is waiting for the right time to release. I just wished that my life was so that I was able to be there for each show and my memory was as keen as a CD. Not real life for me however. dale ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) > Found this in the '100+ Q&A' section on the TDI website while browsing... > > 64. Roughly what percent of all the TD concerts within the last 25 years has > the band taped for themselves? It may sound unbelievable but - there are > tapes from each single concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked > safely away at TD lawyer's office in London. Edgar must have known very > early, that one day ...! > > > Wonder what percentage of those tapes are even playable anymore ?? > > What a _________ . > (fill the blank with the words.....waste, shame, pity, chance, goldmine, > ETC...) > > ATYE > (patiently waiting....) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) I really don't see much point in keeping great music locked away in some vault when there are so many people who are perfectly willing to pay to own a copy! - Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:51 AM Subject: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) > Found this in the '100+ Q&A' section on the TDI website while browsing... > > 64. Roughly what percent of all the TD concerts within the last 25 years has > the band taped for themselves? It may sound unbelievable but - there are > tapes from each single concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now locked > safely away at TD lawyer's office in London. Edgar must have known very > early, that one day ...! > > > Wonder what percentage of those tapes are even playable anymore ?? > > What a _________ . > (fill the blank with the words.....waste, shame, pity, chance, goldmine, > ETC...) > > ATYE > (patiently waiting....) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32070 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) orangefunk_2000 Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 8:29 pm Subject: Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) I don't think that they'll be multitrack tapes (at least not all of em) as the cost of recording 2-3 hours per show onto multitrack tape would be incredibly expensive. In fact I don't think even Encore was multitrack, the live radio braodcasts are practically the same. I'd say these were direct to 2 track.. Interesting thoughts though.. Peace Orangefunk --- In tadream@y..., 'Chris Owen' wrote: > I really don't see much point in keeping great music locked away in some > vault when there are so many people who are perfectly willing to pay to own > a copy! > > - Chris > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 10:51 AM > Subject: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) > > > > Found this in the '100+ Q&A' section on the TDI website while browsing... > > > > 64. Roughly what percent of all the TD concerts within the last 25 years > has > > the band taped for themselves? It may sound unbelievable but - there are > > tapes from each single concert they've ever played from 1971 up to now > locked > > safely away at TD lawyer's office in London. Edgar must have known very > > early, that one day ...! > > > > > > Wonder what percentage of those tapes are even playable anymore ?? > > > > What a _________ . > > (fill the blank with the words.....waste, shame, pity, chance, goldmine, > > ETC...) > > > > ATYE > > (patiently waiting....) > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 8:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) The great what if .. What if it was just bad recording used only for copywrite purposes? Are you saying that anything released, when the artiest believe it was not done well, should be fine? I can't tell you how many recording I have done live for bands, that the gig was fine, well reviewed, but the audio recorded was bad as well as showed way too many mistakes that the artiest themselves only knew. These have not seen the light of day at all. I am betting a lot of this is the case with the tapes stored away. I remember reading about Boston's tapes. They waited till their contract ran out as they had a problem with the label. (Which also means how many labels might Edgar have contracts with on these tapes.) When they returned many years later the tapes where sticky. They almost did not get anything of value off them. I would like this to be something TD is going to do soon. I just wonder how good or what quality they are. I know how we ripped on many of the albums here on the group already. Thick skin is what I would need if I was going to release these. dale ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Chris Owen' To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) > I really don't see much point in keeping great music locked away in some > vault when there are so many people who are perfectly willing to pay to own > a copy! > > - Chris Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32072 Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) orangefunk_2000 Sun 2/10/2002 4 KB From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 8:38 pm Subject: Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) Saying that other bands like the Grateful Dead have released tapes older than 71. I believe they used special techniques in software and ovens (they use special ovens to get rid of the oxide residue) But yes I'd imagine the tapes would be nothing more than simple 2 trak affairs recorded with a mic, I used to do this myself on every jazz gig I did. --- In tadream@y..., 'Admin' wrote: > The great what if .. > What if it was just bad recording used only for copywrite purposes? Are you > saying that anything released, when the artiest believe it was not done > well, should be fine? I can't tell you how many recording I have done live > for bands, that the gig was fine, well reviewed, but the audio recorded was > bad as well as showed way too many mistakes that the artiest themselves only > knew. These have not seen the light of day at all. > I am betting a lot of this is the case with the tapes stored away. > I remember reading about Boston's tapes. They waited till their contract ran > out as they had a problem with the label. (Which also means how many labels > might Edgar have contracts with on these tapes.) When they returned many > years later the tapes where sticky. They almost did not get anything of > value off them. > I would like this to be something TD is going to do soon. I just wonder how > good or what quality they are. I know how we ripped on many of the albums > here on the group already. Thick skin is what I would need if I was going to > release these. > > dale > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Chris Owen' > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) > > > > I really don't see much point in keeping great music locked away in some > > vault when there are so many people who are perfectly willing to pay to > own > > a copy! > > > > - Chris From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 8:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Found this on the TDI website...... ;-) Another thought. How many of these do you thing would be bought? 1k, 10k, 100k? or more? The cost to take those tapes out, remaster them (this would be opening the door on tangitation again), produce them, publish them and distribute them would be costly. What return? Sure I buy them, like I do now. I do not have every CD, Record, tape done myself but I do gather here and there. The if they are not high quality, who will buy them? Right now they are curiosities only. It would be cool if they made them into streaming audio to be played over the web. But what return again? 2 track is what I bet they mostly are too. dale From: atye@a... Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 9:08 pm Subject: more about 100+ Q&A on TDI website.... Tangerine Dream 100+ Questions & Answers For anyone who has NOT read the 100+ Q&A section of the TDI website (like me until today), I would STRONGLY reccomend it. It is very full of keen insights into some live shows, early history, personnel changes, bootleg tolerance policy, how they improvised live, and even insight into TD (Edgar) stubborness to even THINK about anything that happened in the 70's. But overall, a good source of inside info on all things TD. Some highlights..... 100. Does the band like to listen to the older music they've recorded years ago? As soon as a record gets finished, they have to hear it a few more times because of the test masterings, but once released on CD and available to the public no one will ever listen to it again - that's sort of a rule which goes back to the old days of TD. So one can imagine, that it wasn't pure enjoyment for Edgar to do all the re-mixes and re-recordings through the last two years for various box sets. Why they do it that way? They say that the composing and recording procedure is often comparable to the very painful birth of a baby who doesn't want to leave its mother's womb. Maybe they don't want to recall some of those moments by listening to the compositions again and again. 67. Will the band ever release previously unreleased material - live and studio work - from the Froese, Franke and Baumann period? As explained earlier, there are lots of tapes from that period in the safe, so it depends on what the three members can agree to. Their businesses and musical careers have drifted apart within the last couple of years, so that we don't even know, if there is still an existing solidarity between them as far as such projects are concerned. Take a few minutes and read the info.....I don't intend for this e-mail to sound negative towards the band at all, just as an insight into the band's (Edgar's) way of thinking about life, music, and other stuff...including UFO's !! Enjoy, ATYE :-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Jonathan Holt Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 9:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Cover art update Ok, just seen the artwork for the tree. Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful! Jon. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 9:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Cover art update All the art work both redbook and shn are great. I am just waiting for the actual disk to make it to my distance. Who ever has the shn's, can you place them in such a manner to ftp? I have access to t1 and dsl most of the time to download so this is not a problem for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Jonathan Holt' To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Cover art update > Ok, just seen the artwork for the tree. > > Wonderful! Wonderful! Wonderful! > > Jon. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32118 Re: [tree] Cover art update michael_berling Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB From: 'H.' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 10:58 pm Subject: Invisible Melodies I got hold of a recording called 'Invisible Melodies'. Can someone tell me something about this recording? (eg. year of recording /release ) Herbert Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32078 Re: Invisible Melodies Admin Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB 32079 Re: Invisible Melodies orangefunk_2000 Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB 32080 AW: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies H. Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB 32081 Re: Invisible Melodies Matthew Sawyer Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB 32085 Re: Invisible Melodies Admin Mon 2/11/2002 3 KB 32099 Re: Invisible Melodies atye@a... Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB 32105 Re: Invisible Melodies Matthew Sawyer Mon 2/11/2002 3 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 11:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible Melodies sounds cool are they invisible? dale :) ----- Original Message ----- From: 'H.' To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:58 PM Subject: [tadream] Invisible Melodies > I got hold of a recording called 'Invisible Melodies'. > > Can someone tell me something about this recording? > (eg. year of recording /release ) > > > Herbert > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32079 Re: Invisible Melodies orangefunk_2000 Sun 2/10/2002 2 KB 32080 AW: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies H. Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 11:37 pm Subject: Re: Invisible Melodies i think they're technically called 'blank media' :-) --- In tadream@y..., 'Admin' wrote: > sounds cool > are they invisible? > > dale :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'H.' > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:58 PM > Subject: [tadream] Invisible Melodies > > > > I got hold of a recording called 'Invisible Melodies'. > > > > Can someone tell me something about this recording? > > (eg. year of recording /release ) > > > > > > Herbert > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32080 AW: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies H. Sun 2/10/2002 3 KB From: 'H.' Date: Sun Feb 10, 2002 11:45 pm Subject: AW: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies hey guys. get more serious. my question was about 'invisible melodies' not 'unhearable melodies' :))) Herbert -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: orangefunk_2000 [mailto:orangefunk_2000@y...] Gesendet: Montag, 11. Februar 2002 00:38 An: tadream@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies i think they're technically called 'blank media' :-) --- In tadream@y..., 'Admin' wrote: > sounds cool > are they invisible? > > dale :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'H.' > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:58 PM > Subject: [tadream] Invisible Melodies > > > > I got hold of a recording called 'Invisible Melodies'. > > > > Can someone tell me something about this recording? > > (eg. year of recording /release ) > > > > > > Herbert > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies From: 'H.' > hey guys. get more serious. > my question was about 'invisible melodies' not 'unhearable melodies' :))) Give us a clue. Is it a concert recording? Individual track? Maff From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:12 am Subject: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? E Neal Frost said: >Hello All, > >I am very glad to see the latest installment of Dreamwatchers Tales is to be >released soon, (hopefully there will be more and more......). But does >anyone have any info on the Okee Swamp CD from the 2001 gathering? I thought >I had heard that there was enough music for a 2 CD release. > >I am not trying to be a pain, but the music of Marcel and Dave from the 2000 >gathering rarely leaves my CD player and I am hungerin' for some new music. Then Marcel said: >Hi Neal, > >The master CD was at Eric's (from Alfa Centauri fame) place >and in the midst of mastering his equipment broke down. >Now a new master went to Dave Law from SMD and he's doing the >final bits. It should be out very soon now. >Though it's going to be a single CD. Ouch! There's 4 CDs worth of material (although some is noodling, etc. and Dave, Bill, and Marcel took a shot at a track on Friday night that was played again on Saturday, but much more 'filled out' and cooler). Hopefully we'll see a 2-3 disc release including Dave Brewer's 1986 TD Piano Solo. Licensing through Harry Fox Agency for this track would be about $85 for 1,000 copies (And yes it's available for licensing as a 'cover' tune, I looked it up). I just released and did the artwork for a 14 track music CD for a friend and learned a LOT about licensing. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32093 Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? Dave Brewer Mon 2/11/2002 3 KB 32112 Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? horrod6 Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB 32114 Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? Marcel Engels Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB 32136 Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? Dave Brewer Tue 2/12/2002 4 KB 32148 OT: Tron mengels@w... Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:29 am Subject: CD Production worth it at low numbers? >Admin for Kaynet asked: >How many of these do you thing would be bought? 1k, 10k, 100k? or more? The >cost to take those tapes out, remaster them (this would be opening the door >on tangitation again), produce them, publish them and distribute them would >be costly. What return? I've digitally remastered from an original cassette tape a 60 minute piano concert that needed a LOT of work in an afternoon. Had to fix volume, remove tape hiss and other problems. Did a test pressing and played it on the stereo, decided to do a little more EQ work and remove pops and clicks in a few places and had it done that night. As for duplication costs, I just did the artwork and production for a jazz singer's CD. I did a full color tray card, 3 page color (outside)/b&w (inside) booklet, color printing on the CD, etc. with a 1,000 copy run. The discs were delivered mid-January and she's about to order the next 1,000 copies. Anyway, I've learned a bit about music rights and duplication costs. :) :) Production on 1,000 CDs including 2 page foldout booklet artwork and tray card, CD duplication off a glass master, all materials delivered individually shrink-wrapped WITH bar code etc. is all $2,000. That's 2 bucks a disc! I was blown away with the print quality, materials used, discs, etc. I'm not mentioning the firm so as not to be seen as an advertisement. The bottom line is, a 2 disc concert CD could be produced start-to-finish in a week including artwork and be put out for $3k, making $13 profit per 2 disc set that's sold. So even at quantity of 1,000, you are making a lot of money. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32086 Re: CD Production worth it at low numbers? Admin Mon 2/11/2002 4 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 12:32 am Subject: 'Invisible Melodies'? >I got hold of a recording called 'Invisible Melodies'. > >Can someone tell me something about this recording? >(eg. year of recording /release ) > >Herbert Someone just sent this to me too. Sounds like a 1975-1977 bootleg compilation. My memory is not so good for that era (remembering individual shows would be madness!) but I know I have heard some of the shows excerpted here. Is it worth it for me to try to track down what some/all of these eight tracks are? -Morgan From: 'Admin' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies ahh.. I get a few with every 50 cd spindle I buy. That is what those are for! I must have a dozen or so now. dale :) ----- Original Message ----- From: 'orangefunk_2000' To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: [tadream] Re: Invisible Melodies > i think they're technically called 'blank media' :-) > > --- In tadream@y..., 'Admin' wrote: > > sounds cool > > are they invisible? > > > > dale :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'H.' > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:58 PM > > Subject: [tadream] Invisible Melodies > > > > > > > I got hold of a recording called 'Invisible Melodies'. > > > > > > Can someone tell me something about this recording? > > > (eg. year of recording /release ) > > > > > > > > > Herbert > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:11 am Subject: Re: [tadream] CD Production worth it at low numbers? don't forget the middle folks, distributors, so that profit just sunk a bit e-mail off list name as that is a good cost ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Morgan Feldon' To: Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 4:29 PM Subject: [tadream] CD Production worth it at low numbers? > > >Admin for Kaynet asked: > >How many of these do you thing would be bought? 1k, 10k, 100k? or more? The > >cost to take those tapes out, remaster them (this would be opening the door > >on tangitation again), produce them, publish them and distribute them would > >be costly. What return? > > I've digitally remastered from an original cassette tape a 60 minute piano > concert that needed a LOT of work in an afternoon. Had to fix volume, > remove tape hiss and other problems. > > Did a test pressing and played it on the stereo, decided to do a little > more EQ work and remove pops and clicks in a few places and had it done > that night. > > As for duplication costs, I just did the artwork and production for a jazz > singer's CD. I did a full color tray card, 3 page color (outside)/b&w > (inside) booklet, color printing on the CD, etc. with a 1,000 copy run. The > discs were delivered mid-January and she's about to order the next 1,000 > copies. Anyway, I've learned a bit about music rights and duplication > costs. :) :) > > Production on 1,000 CDs including 2 page foldout booklet artwork and tray > card, CD duplication off a glass master, all materials delivered > individually shrink-wrapped WITH bar code etc. is all $2,000. That's 2 > bucks a disc! > > I was blown away with the print quality, materials used, discs, etc. I'm > not mentioning the firm so as not to be seen as an advertisement. > > The bottom line is, a 2 disc concert CD could be produced start-to-finish > in a week including artwork and be put out for $3k, making $13 profit per 2 > disc set that's sold. So even at quantity of 1,000, you are making a lot of > money. > > -Morgan > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:13 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' > Just a little question: what about circular labels for the CDs? Is anybody > going to create them? Consider them done. You can now get labels for all ten discs on the site. www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32116 Re: [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:29 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading What is this Maff? Do you have elves working for you? Do you pay them scale? Sheesh! You are a tough act to follow.... Again, killer job.!.! -- Mark (picture discs no less... my, oh my.) Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' > > > Just a little question: what about circular labels for the CDs? Is anybody > > going to create them? > > Consider them done. You can now get labels for all ten discs on the site. > > www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree > > Maff > _______________________________________________________ > www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru > www.tachyon-tv.co.uk > www.eclipsecafe.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:38 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading From: 'Mark Filipak' > What is this Maff? Do you have elves working for you? Do you pay them scale? Shhhh! Don't mention payment. I'll have a revolt on my hands! > Sheesh! You are a tough act to follow.... Again, killer > job.!.! -- Mark (picture discs no less... my, oh my.) Cheers Mark. Much appreciated. Maff From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:03 am Subject: Give us your tired, your unwanted discs! -- Torches held aloft, optional. Ahem! I feel this compelling need to share. Heiko, Maff, Gustavo (if you aren't too busy partying down there), and Marko. Send me your postal addresses off list. I have some unwanted discs from my trade list I want to send to you. 3N, Jabberwock, Danish Dynamite, TENTBUCKUM (who are these people?), and Federico. You too. Send me your postals. Ciao -- Mark (full of beans and blown away) From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:28 am Subject: [tree] First impressions Is it too soon to start discussing how the tree bootlegs actually sound? I got my hands on them today, and at the risk of serverly annoying those who haven't here's a few words on the CD's I've played so far. Croydon 75 (volume 7) Quite simply the best version of this concert I've heard to date. Both my original copies were far too distorted to listen to comfortably, with the heavy sequencer drone masking all the lead instruments as is the case with a lot of poor audience recordings. All the subtle details of the music are lost and it becomes a chore to sit through. The tree version is *so* much clearer. For those who didn't know already, large parts of Ricochet were drawn from this concert and it's wonderful to finally hear them as they were performed. Oh, and TD performed them right around the corner from my house ;-). Washington 77 (Volume 4) Monolight wasn't the only track from this concert that deserved to go on Encore. 'Drywater Rush' and the newly titled 'Rain in Spain' have always been personal favorites for me. There was an annoying left channel buzz on my old copy which is now gone on the new tree version. All the tracks are very clear and well presented. The radio announcer fumbling for things to say always cracks me up. ;-) Bernau 2001 (Volume 3) Excellent quality, even though the music itself isn't the style of TD I normally prefer. I'm hoping this one will grow on me over time. Berlin 1976 (Volume 8) I've had multiple copies of this for a while and the tree version beats them all. A lot of the hiss seems to have been removed. I've always found the real concert so much better than the offical Soundmill Navigator release, even if it didn't have that damn mastering flaw. Heiko, 3N, Jabberwock, Danish Dynamite, TENTBUCKUM and Federico, well done lads. Fantastic work! I can't wait for the next set! Maff NP: Drywater Rush. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32097 Re: [tree] First impressions John Marchington Mon 2/11/2002 5 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:09 am Subject: [tree] FYI: still taking participants FYI, I'm still adding people to the tree as they filter in. It's still not too late if there are any last-minute types out there. You can let me know off-list. joe shoults director of education mailto:joes@f... fathom interactive solutions http://www.fathominteractive.com 812 huron road #201 (216) 615-4923 tel cleveland, ohio 44115 (216) 861-3762 fax neommug secretary http://www.neommug.org [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Dave Brewer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:06 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? Morgan Said: >There's 4 CDs worth of material (although some is noodling, etc. and Dave, >Bill, and Marcel took a shot at a track on Friday night that was played >again on Saturday, but much more 'filled out' and cooler). Hopefully we'll >see a 2-3 disc release including Dave Brewer's 1986 TD Piano Solo. >Licensing through Harry Fox Agency for this track would be about $85 for >1,000 copies (And yes it's available for licensing as a 'cover' tune, I >looked it up). I just released and did the artwork for a 14 track music CD >for a friend and learned a LOT about licensing. > Actually, a lot of it is noodling. We were just goofing around, not doing much of anything. I really wish you didn't bring up the piano medley, Morgan. I was out of practice, and was just plain off my game. It is the part of the trip I'd rather forget. I did appreciate everyone's kind words, in spite of the bombed performance. If there's another disc released from 2001, I can assure you that the piano piece will never be on there. I would never want to inflict it on any more ears. Besides, Edgar would probably sue me for the destruction of TD's music! :-) Regards, Dave B. (...must...practice...more...) From: 'horrod6' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 2:09 am Subject: Fauni-Gena (was 'Using TD track names') I've always assumed, with my half-baked classical background, that Fauni is something to do with animal life (as in 'Flora and Fauna') and Gena was to do with birth (same root as genesis). This would make the meaning something related to 'The origin of the species'. This ties in with the way the track itself strikes me - a kind of primitive, hot-house, swampy, jungle-like feeling: it matches the way I imagine the period when animal life was initially evolving to have been. (That's an awful piece of English, but I hope you can see what I mean.) I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice. LnH Marion From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 3:59 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena faun-, fauni-, fauna-, -fauna (Latin: animal; a collective name for the animals of a certain region or time). and I believe gena is a refererence to genus Therefore, we have a song related to genus of the animal kingdom; it's your own interpretation of which animal you would like to choose for your area of listening pleasure. Birds come into mind for me with this one. All IMO of course. 8-) Dell As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. >From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena >Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:38:58 +0100 > >faun, faunie and gena are female names, so maybe one of the TD-members >had something with a girl with that name ???? ;-) > >Bert > >-----Original Message----- >From: Olav Neander [mailto:oneander@o...] >Sent: donderdag 7 februari 2002 9:01 >To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena > > > > >John Vertical wrote: > > >Well, there's only one place on the Internet which has the words 2fauni > > >gena' but no TD connection: > >www.zodiakoverun.purespace.de/Mathildenh%F6he.htm > >It appears to be some park. But if it's not in Berlin, where then? My >Deutch > >is not too good. > > > >Could someone help? > > > >Yes, it's not in Berlin, but it's inside an Adventure Game... :-) > > >Olav > >-- >Electronic Dreamscapes from Norway - http://www.mp3.com/autopoiesis - >ICQ# 9622825 > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: Liondream@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:06 am Subject: CD Production Ditto what Dale said... Doesn't the record company (i.e. you) only get about 40% of list for that product? And I'm not so certain about the mastering taking a week. Probably would best-case scenario, but it also depends on where/how you 'master.' If you're throwing it into Sound Forge or Wavelab or whatever, that's one thing. On the other end of the spectrum... someone like Bob Ludwig is going to run you about $4,000 - $5,000. Could you e-mail me the name of that duplicator privately too, please? In a message dated 2/10/2002 8:04:55 PM Central Standard Time, tadream@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 21 > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:11:14 -0800 > From: 'Admin' > Subject: Re: CD Production worth it at low numbers? > > don't forget the middle folks, distributors, so that profit just sunk a bit > e-mail off list name as that is a good cost > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32111 Re: CD Production Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Med Mon 2/11/2002 3 KB From: 'John Marchington' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:17 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] First impressions WOW! This is sure going to be some project. What with the stunning artwork from Gustavo, Maff and Marko and the efforts of Heiko and Joe, we're all going to be in seventh heaven and this is just the beginning. Thanks a million fellas. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 3:28 PM Subject: [tadream] [tree] First impressions > Is it too soon to start discussing how the tree bootlegs actually sound? I > got my hands on them today, and at the risk of serverly annoying those who > haven't here's a few words on the CD's I've played so far. > > > > Croydon 75 (volume 7) > > Quite simply the best version of this concert I've heard to date. Both my > original copies were far too distorted to listen to comfortably, with the > heavy sequencer drone masking all the lead instruments as is the case with a > lot of poor audience recordings. All the subtle details of the music are > lost and it becomes a chore to sit through. The tree version is *so* much > clearer. For those who didn't know already, large parts of Ricochet were > drawn from this concert and it's wonderful to finally hear them as they were > performed. Oh, and TD performed them right around the corner from my house > ;-). > > > Washington 77 (Volume 4) > > Monolight wasn't the only track from this concert that deserved to go on > Encore. 'Drywater Rush' and the newly titled 'Rain in Spain' have always > been personal favorites for me. There was an annoying left channel buzz on > my old copy which is now gone on the new tree version. All the tracks are > very clear and well presented. The radio announcer fumbling for things to > say always cracks me up. ;-) > > > Bernau 2001 (Volume 3) > > Excellent quality, even though the music itself isn't the style of TD I > normally prefer. I'm hoping this one will grow on me over time. > > > Berlin 1976 (Volume 8) > > I've had multiple copies of this for a while and the tree version beats them > all. A lot of the hiss seems to have been removed. I've always found the > real concert so much better than the offical Soundmill Navigator release, > even if it didn't have that damn mastering flaw. > > > Heiko, 3N, Jabberwock, Danish Dynamite, TENTBUCKUM and Federico, well done > lads. Fantastic work! I can't wait for the next set! > > > Maff > > NP: Drywater Rush. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: quarlie@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:17 am Subject: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena In a message dated 2/10/02 10:03:43 PM, horrod6@n... writes: >This ties in with the way the track itself strikes me - a kind of primitive, >hot-house, swampy, jungle-like feeling: it matches the way I imagine the >period when animal life was initially evolving to have been. To me, this track always evokes some kind of jungle on another planet, where the human explorers (represented by the Mellotron flute) have just landed and are wandering around. The pulsing bass sound at the end is when they return to their ship. It's probably because of all the Andre Norton space novels I've read. --Daniel NP: Gamma Ray - No World Order From: atye@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible Melodies I think everyone has sort of ignored the original question here. I have a copy of this recording from Herbert as well, but my musical ear is not trained well enough to absolutely identify the tracks. The name of the tracks (and I suppose the boot as well) is 'Invisible Melodies'. There are 9 tracks in all, but it's really 4 tracks cut (for who knows what reason) into 9 pieces. The quality is above average. The tracks are live and range from 6 minutes to about 32 minutes in length. We are just wondering if anyone has cover artwork or a real tracklisting for this music, or any info at all. Thanks everyone, ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: atye@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena In a message dated 2/10/2002 11:33:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, quarlie@a... writes: > In a message dated 2/10/02 10:03:43 PM, horrod6@n... writes: > > >This ties in with the way the track itself strikes me - a kind of > primitive, > >hot-house, swampy, jungle-like feeling: it matches the way I imagine the > >period when animal life was initially evolving to have been. > > I have a VERY similar image in my head during the last track of the Poland CD (Horizon, I think). It sounds like a primordial puddle at the beginning....small stirrings of life.....slowly building up and evolving, moving onto land, becoming dinosaurs and such......only at the climactic end to be struck down by the asteroid(s) that ended their reign on earth... That, or maybe just I've been reading too much sci-fi myself....haha ;-) ATYE np : Invisible Melodies (TD) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: atye@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena In a message dated 2/10/2002 11:33:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, quarlie@a... writes: > In a message dated 2/10/02 10:03:43 PM, horrod6@n... writes: > > >This ties in with the way the track itself strikes me - a kind of > primitive, > >hot-house, swampy, jungle-like feeling: it matches the way I imagine the > >period when animal life was initially evolving to have been. > > I have a VERY similar image in my head during the last track of the Poland CD (Horizon, I think). It sounds like a primordial puddle at the beginning....small stirrings of life.....slowly building up and evolving, moving onto land, becoming dinosaurs and such......only at the climactic end to be struck down by the asteroid(s) that ended their reign on earth... That, or maybe just I've been reading too much sci-fi myself....haha ;-) ATYE np : Invisible Melodies (TD) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'horrod6' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 5:04 am Subject: Re: Invisible melodies Some 'Invisible' record companies: Invisible Mass Records (www.invisiblemass.com) or invisible records (www.invisiblerecords.com) or Invisible Music (www.invisiblemusicrecords.com) Some 'Invisible' bands: Invisible Them www.newhavenadvocate.com/gbs97/abstract.html The Invisible Opera Company of Tibet www.sonnet.co.uk/gong-gas/tribal/ioct.htm The invisible band www.invisibleband.com/ New Invisible Joy www.allindie.com/bands/nij/index.html Invisible limits www.invisible-limits.de Invisible Green http://www.invisiblegreen.com/ The remainder, as they say in the maths books, is left as an exercise for the student. I had fun playing with a few search engines I wouldn't normally use, and finding loads of obscure indie music sites, but I don't know how much help I have been! LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32103 Re: Invisible melodies atye@a... Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB 32104 Re: Invisible melodies matthewsawyer Mon 2/11/2002 3 KB From: atye@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 5:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Invisible melodies Marion, Thanks for the effort anyway..... If you REALLY like search engines that much......there's a new online geek sport called 'Googlewhacking'.....give it a whirl. :-) ATYE np : TD - 1976 Bilbao Spain (not the Tree version......YET) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32104 Re: Invisible melodies matthewsawyer Mon 2/11/2002 3 KB From: 'matthewsawyer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 5:07 am Subject: Re: Invisible melodies (Apologies if this comes through twice) From: > I have a copy of this recording from Herbert as well, but my musical ear is > not trained well enough to absolutely identify the tracks. OK, tracks 1-4 I'm not 100% sure but they're probably 09/02/76 Jansen University Brussels, Belgium. I'll have to dig out my copy to check. Tracks 5-8 are 27/06/76 Berlin Philharmonics. This is the original concert recording of the Soundmill Navigator CD. Track 9 is the encore of 26/11/76 L'Ancienne Belgique, Brussels. All these tracks were on the bootlegs Danger Live and Danger Live 2. Looks like someone has combined the best tracks from those two bootlegs into one new CD. > We are just wondering if anyone has cover artwork or a real tracklisting for > this music, or any info at all. I have a CD containing just about every TD bootleg cover on it. Invisible Melodies ain't on it, so presumably it's either very rare or very new. Of course, if you need some artwork done for it... ;-) Maff From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:31 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Invisible Melodies From: > I have a copy of this recording from Herbert as well, but my musical ear is > not trained well enough to absolutely identify the tracks. OK, tracks 1-4 I'm not 100% sure but they're probably 09/02/76 Jansen University Brussels, Belgium. I'll have to dig out my copy to check. Tracks 5-8 are 27/06/76 Berlin Philharmonics. This is the original concert recording of the Soundmill Navigator CD. Track 9 is the encore of 26/11/76 L'Ancienne Belgique, Brussels. All these tracks were on the bootlegs Danger Live and Danger Live 2. Looks like someone has combined the best tracks from those two bootlegs into one new CD. > We are just wondering if anyone has cover artwork or a real tracklisting for > this music, or any info at all. I have a CD containing just about every TD bootleg cover on it. Invisible Melodies ain't on it, so presumably it's either very rare or very new. Of course, if you need some artwork done for it... ;-) Maff From: 'albenson' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 7:18 am Subject: D: Boot [Danger Live] (was: Re: Invisible melodies) Hi Gang! This just a quick follow-up to Maff's answer to Atye... Atye wrote: >> I have a copy of this recording from Herbert as well, but my >> musical ear is not trained well enough to absolutely identify >> the tracks. Maff responded: > OK, tracks 1-4 I'm not 100% sure but they're probably > 09/02/76 Jansen University Brussels, Belgium. I'll have > to dig out my copy to check. Tracks 5-8 are 27/06/76 > Berlin Philharmonics. This is the original concert > recording of the Soundmill Navigator CD. Track 9 > is the encore of 26/11/76 L'Ancienne Belgique, > Brussels. > > All these tracks were on the bootlegs Danger Live and > Danger Live 2. Looks like someone has combined the > best tracks from those two bootlegs into one new CD. That's correct. The boot 'Danger Live' is well known. The boot 'Danger Live 2' was more of a limited fan re- lease produced by TD fans for fans and had limited cir- culation (very much like out tadream tree now). Fortunately, I have all almost of them and you can find a link on my TD homepage which describes in brief this material from 'Danger Live pt. 2.' I put it there as when I got on the Internet soon realized that not much was know about these TD fan releases. The main link is: http://marspolaris.tripod.com/analogue.html This is my: 'TD *Analogue* Tape Special Generation Addendum TD ~live~ in Concert!!!' section. The sub-link (direct) is: http://marspolaris.tripod.com/analogue.html#..Addendum This is my 'Addendum A: (Special CDRs)' (where I talk about the Waveform CDs). Atye continued: >> We are just wondering if anyone has cover artwork >> or a real tracklisting for this music, or any info at all. The track info for 'Danger Live': TD ~Live~ in Brussels (Belgium) 1976 1. DL Part I (39:32) 2. DL Part II (21:07) 3. DL Part III (10:07) This concert took place at the Jansen University Auditorium on 02.09.76 (tracks 1-2), and then again in Brussels as the L' Ancienne Belgigue on 11.16.76 (track 3). Note: the original composition #3 (11.16.76) is just over thirteen minutes long... ;-) The track info for 'Danger Live pt. 2': 1. Brussels (02.09.76) Tracks 1-3 (20:44) 2. Brussels (02.09.76) Tracks 4-6 (15:48) 3. Berlin (06.27.76) Tracks 5-11 (32:14) Of course, the Brussels concert above is as already mentioned (another concert took place in Brussels on 11.16.76), and the famous recording at the Berlin Philharmonic on June 27, 1976. Time to get your- selves ready as you're about to hear it on disc #8 of the REDBOOK and disc #6 of the SHN. BTW: 'DL pt. 2' had no real artwork to speak of, just the basics... :-( > I have a CD containing just about every TD bootleg > cover on it. Invisible Melodies ain't on it, so > presumably it's either very rare or very new. Of > course, if you need some artwork done for it... ;-) > Maff Maff -- you're clearly the expert here! As, written early (sorry I forgot to include [Tadream]...[tree] previously) you are_ALL_to be congratulated! ;-) The CD cover artwork and labels is TeRRiFiC! My Best Always, -- Al (the TD' s pal) Berkeley, CA / USA My TD personal homepage: http://marspolaris.tripod.com/index.html PS: Maybe we should refrain a tad and posts these kinds of messages (that deal with boots and all their info directly) either in Tangerine-Dream, or in the Goblin's Club newsgroups. As, I just wanted to clarify the facts... :-) Also, I should mention that I heard the original TD ~live~ concert tapes well before I heard the boots... In most cases, I'll stick with the TD analogue master tapes! PPS: Steven Wright joke (to make the previous subject header work): 'Got a blank tape... Played it on my stereo system. My neighbor complained. So, I turned it up full blast...' :^) NP: You all know the bottom line... Just about_anything_so long as it's ~TANGERINE DREAM~ [Pound for pound -- TD ~live~ in 1976 is simply unbeatable!] _________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 7:59 am Subject: The Piano Solo >Dave Brewer said: >I really wish you didn't bring up the piano medley, >Morgan. I was out of practice, and was just >plain off my game. It is the part of the trip I'd rather forget. I did >appreciate everyone's kind words, in spite of the bombed performance. If >there's another disc released from 2001, I can assure you that the piano >piece will never be on there. I would never want to inflict it on any more >ears. Besides, Edgar would probably sue me for the destruction of TD's >music! :-) I never expected you to put the live version. I know you were nervous, but it still brought a tear or two to my eye. I'll never experience a 1986 TD concert live, so this is as close as I can get. At the time, you were talking about re-recording this piano solo in the studio and including it on release. Everyone around me seemed to agree that a re-recording would be a nice addition to put on there. I don't think anyone would complain, even me, and you know how I bray at the slightest tangentization! Please do re-record it and put it out on a future version. As for this being mostly noodling, Saturday's 74 minutes alone are incredible and I listen to them often. I really hope a 2-3 disc edition comes out, not for completeness sake, but because I really think there are 2-3 discs worth of music that can stand on its own two feet. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32110 Re: The Piano Solo mengels@w... Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB 32130 Re: The Piano Solo orangefunk_2000 Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB From: 'braddito' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 9:50 am Subject: Re: Best 1970s bootleg With other bands, you tend to only need one bootleg per tour, although Led Zep did have nightly variations making more recordings worthwhile if you have the time. To select one, or even a few TD 70's bootlegs is impossible as even in my own relatively small collection, I have large a number of excellent pieces of music that I couldn't possibly rank against eachother. Particular favourites are Coventry Cathedral 75, Liverpool Cathedral 75, Croydon 76, Royal Albert Hall 75, Festival D'Orange 75, London Hammersmith 78 to name just a few. Toby > So what are your fav TD boots from this period? > > Peace > orangefunk From: Art Of Vision Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:36 am Subject: Art of listening Not long ago I discovered that impression of the track depends much of the way you listen to it. If you just play it as a background for doing something else, you can't reach the effect of concentrating on it. And even when concentrated on a track, there are several ways of listening: listen in general, trying to catch mood of the whole piece, repeat every note in your head or follow one theme (it's often a percussion line) The last method works fine especially on Melrose (Rolling down..., Art Of Vision, Desert Train) and also Tangram part II and At Darvin's Motel(from Goblin's club). I still haven't tried it in many others... AoV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32113 Re: Art of listening horrod6 Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB 32115 Re: Art of listening Mark Filipak Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB From: Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:47 am Subject: Re: [tadream] The Piano Solo Quoten Morgan Feldon : > As for this being mostly noodling, Saturday's 74 minutes alone are > incredible and I listen to them often. I really hope a 2-3 disc edition > comes out, not for completeness sake, but because I really think there are > 2-3 discs worth of music that can stand on its own two feet. It's all improvised. I must say that some things turned out very good but there are are also some things that are not that good. First release will be a 1CD but we might put out an extra disc later this year, if everything goes well. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... man, it's been ages since I updated my webpage :-) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32130 Re: The Piano Solo orangefunk_2000 Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB From: 'Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] CD Production ----- Original Message ----- From: > Doesn't the record company (i.e. you) only get about 40% of list for that > product? And I'm not so certain about the mastering taking a week. Probably > would best-case scenario, but it also depends on where/how you 'master.' The mastering of an album should take around 1 day. If you are making a compilation with tracks coming from different sources, it will take longer than with tracks coming from the same source. But even with tracks from different sources, it should be not much longer than one working day. 8 - 10 hours maybe. > On the other end of the spectrum... someone like Bob Ludwig is going to run > you about $4,000 - $5,000. You're talking about one of the top mastering engineers of the world. Use a local mastering company and the cost will be reasonable. Glenn From: 'horrod6' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 6:28 pm Subject: Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? Dave, you guys may have just been noodling, but it sounded good to me! And as for the piano solo, I thought you were going to send us a recording you were happy with? Guess you just never got a 'round tuit'. (Like I didn't get around to sending you that Japanese drumming I mentioned - I'll bring it with me in April, I _promise_.*) I hope you'll be giving a repeat performance this year? LnH *This applies to your African compilation too, Frank. ....and Marcel's Clockwork Orange OST. .........and Bill's Kosmische Musik sleeve notes. Guess I'd better get busy! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32114 Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? Marcel Engels Mon 2/11/2002 2 KB From: 'horrod6' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 6:39 pm Subject: Re: Art of listening I quite agree with you. When I'm really 'getting into it', I tend to find myself listening to the sequencers, which, I guess, is why I listen to the 70's stuff the most, and why I like FSP so much! But when it's on in the background, it'll be more of a general impression, or the guitar / melody when there is one (e.g. on 'Beach scene, which I'm listening to right now). Isn't it great to have music that sounds different depending on how you listen? Just reinforces what I've just been reading in 'Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance'. (I'm sure some of you other ageing hippies must remember it!) LnH Marion From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 8:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? > From: horrod6 [mailto:horrod6@n...] > > *This applies to your African compilation too, Frank. > ....and Marcel's Clockwork Orange OST. > .........and Bill's Kosmische Musik sleeve notes. > Guess I'd better get busy! Ahhh yes, Clockwork orange. I had almost forgotten about that! From the samples I heard I will really like that. Marcel From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 8:33 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Art of listening horrod6 wrote: > -snip- > > Isn't it great to have music that sounds different depending on how you > listen? That's IT!! You're a genius! That's what the essence is... 'depending on how you listen'. Wonderful description. Thanks Marion. Ciao -- Mark From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sawyer [mailto:matthewsawyer@c...] > Consider them done. You can now get labels for all ten discs > on the site. > www.croydon-cad.com/maff/tdtree Thanks a lot for your work! 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:05 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Well, I agree that TDI should go right on ahead and sell them. But as for passing along any profits to anyone else, even those who remastered them, now we're in strange territory: It's already theirs! I don't see any application of the Lockean Proviso here. now the fact that they would go ahead and sell them anyway wouldn't be unprecendented; Frank Zappa beat the bottleggers at their own game, so to speak, when he took boots and sold them as official releases, or so I've heard. But the fact that this is all a friendly effort may make you think Edgar's a jerk if he didn't give something back to the fans for having done all his production work for him, but I'd have to disagree. He already paid us in advance with his performance, didn't he? JOe > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:13 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > > > Oops, I sent that before I finished. > I meant to add that if that's the packaging and the sound is > being cleaned up > by fans, then TDI should take a long look at what's going on > and rather than > threatening to sue perhaps you could look at releasing them > officially this > way and give a cut to those who worked on the project sound / > art whatever > and of course TD benefits with the largest cut of the pie... > Look, it's a > labor of love by fans who are going to give their all. People > are constantly > screaming for classic TD sound here it is ready made. It > would sell! TD can > continue to make new music to please the fans that prefer the > new stuff and > the old fans are happy too.... It's a win / win situation.... maybe > conservative small runs like a pressing of what? 100 CD's? > 500 CD's ? I have > no idea what sales are like, but let's say 100 CD's of each > show... you're > telling me these won't be eaten up? Everyone makes coin. > Everyone's happy... > > I apologize if this has been addressed in one way or another > already. I have > been extremely busy and haven't been able to follow the > threads very closely, > just throwing out some thoughts. > > Poly > > Paul Ellis > Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com > 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. > > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > ^~~ > > 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A > single tree is > equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly > fascinating. > That's how music should be.' > Brian Eno > > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > ^~~ > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'michael_berling' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 10:54 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Cover art update --- In tadream@y..., 'Admin' wrote: > All the art work both redbook and shn are great. Thanx... ;-) > I am just waiting for the actual disk to make it to my distance. > > Who ever has the shn's, can you place them in such a manner to ftp? I have > access to t1 and dsl most of the time to download so this is not a problem > for me. Sorry, but I have neither the ftp server space nor the bandwidth to do such an upload of about 3 Gigabyte. Maybe one of the sub-branches can do. BTW: The SHN discs will be shipped to the three level one participants of the SHN tree tomorrow morning. Sorry about the delay, but during weekend and today (carnival monday) the post offices had been closed here in Cologne. So please keep patient... ;-) Regards Michael From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 10:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Yes he did. Now if I could just get my hands on these disks to hear this. Hey, I make you a deal, I will go back in lurk mode if you send me the disks. I will be way to busy listening them to even look at the list. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 3:05 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > Well, I agree that TDI should go right on ahead and sell them. But as for > passing along any profits to anyone else, even those who remastered them, > now we're in strange territory: It's already theirs! I don't see any > application of the Lockean Proviso here. > > now the fact that they would go ahead and sell them anyway wouldn't be > unprecendented; Frank Zappa beat the bottleggers at their own game, so to > speak, when he took boots and sold them as official releases, or so I've > heard. > > But the fact that this is all a friendly effort may make you think Edgar's a > jerk if he didn't give something back to the fans for having done all his > production work for him, but I'd have to disagree. He already paid us in > advance with his performance, didn't he? > > JOe > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > > Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:13 AM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > > > > > > Oops, I sent that before I finished. > > I meant to add that if that's the packaging and the sound is > > being cleaned up > > by fans, then TDI should take a long look at what's going on > > and rather than > > threatening to sue perhaps you could look at releasing them > > officially this > > way and give a cut to those who worked on the project sound / > > art whatever > > and of course TD benefits with the largest cut of the pie... > > Look, it's a > > labor of love by fans who are going to give their all. People > > are constantly > > screaming for classic TD sound here it is ready made. It > > would sell! TD can > > continue to make new music to please the fans that prefer the > > new stuff and > > the old fans are happy too.... It's a win / win situation.... maybe > > conservative small runs like a pressing of what? 100 CD's? > > 500 CD's ? I have > > no idea what sales are like, but let's say 100 CD's of each > > show... you're > > telling me these won't be eaten up? Everyone makes coin. > > Everyone's happy... > > > > I apologize if this has been addressed in one way or another > > already. I have > > been extremely busy and haven't been able to follow the > > threads very closely, > > just throwing out some thoughts. > > > > Poly > > > > Paul Ellis > > Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com > > 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. > > > > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > > ^~~ > > > > 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A > > single tree is > > equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly > > fascinating. > > That's how music should be.' > > Brian Eno > > > > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > > ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ > > ^~~ > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading In a message dated 2/11/2002 4:53:37 PM Central Standard Time, jshoults@f... writes: > But the fact that this is all a friendly effort may make you think Edgar's a > jerk if he didn't give something back to the fans for having done all his > production work for him, but I'd have to disagree. He already paid us in > advance with his performance, didn't he? > > JOe > > *HUH? Where's you get that from? I never said Edgar's a jerk, I just thought TDI should examine the interest in this tree has caused and suggested how everyone could benefit monetarily... (?) Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:25 pm Subject: Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s) Alright Dave, so we can look forward to the 2002 release of 'Dave's TD Piano solo'. Dave, you may consider the actual performance flawed, but the design and integration was beautiful. One of my favorite piano pieces I've heard in awhile. ....must...relax...more .... Message: 3 Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 20:06:19 -0700 From: 'Dave Brewer' Subject: Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? Morgan Said: >There's 4 CDs worth of material (although some is noodling, etc. and Dave, >Bill, and Marcel took a shot at a track on Friday night that was played >again on Saturday, but much more 'filled out' and cooler). Hopefully we'll >see a 2-3 disc release including Dave Brewer's 1986 TD Piano Solo. >Licensing through Harry Fox Agency for this track would be about $85 for >1,000 copies (And yes it's available for licensing as a 'cover' tune, I >looked it up). I just released and did the artwork for a 14 track music CD >for a friend and learned a LOT about licensing. > Actually, a lot of it is noodling. We were just goofing around, not doing much of anything. I really wish you didn't bring up the piano medley, Morgan. I was out of practice, and was just plain off my game. It is the part of the trip I'd rather forget. I did appreciate everyone's kind words, in spite of the bombed performance. If there's another disc released from 2001, I can assure you that the piano piece will never be on there. I would never want to inflict it on any more ears. Besides, Edgar would probably sue me for the destruction of TD's music! :-) Regards, Dave B. (...must...practice...more...) From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading In a message dated 2/11/2002 4:53:37 PM Central Standard Time, jshoults@f... writes: > Well, I agree that TDI should go right on ahead and sell them. But as for > passing along any profits to anyone else, even those who remastered them, > now we're in strange territory: It's already theirs! I don't see any > application of the Lockean Proviso here. > *I didn't get this one the first time.... Of course if TD pulls their own tapes out of the vault, remasters them and does their own art... What I was suggesting was here was this tree as a ready made package for them... IF THEY USE artwork or remastering done here it would only be fair that the person concerned got compensated somehow. I stated clearly that TD would obviously get the largest cut, this is obvious, but how would it be unfair if they used art generated here to give the artist a small cut? That's all I was suggesting. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:44 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading oh no no, I didn't mean that at all. Sorry. when I said 'you' I didn't mean 'you'; I meant 'people'. or more specifically, the people who would think that he owes something to them... > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:18 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > > > In a message dated 2/11/2002 4:53:37 PM Central Standard Time, > jshoults@f... writes: > > > > But the fact that this is all a friendly effort may make > you think Edgar's a > > jerk if he didn't give something back to the fans for > having done all his > > production work for him, but I'd have to disagree. He > already paid us in > > advance with his performance, didn't he? > > > > JOe > > > > > > *HUH? Where's you get that from? I never said Edgar's a jerk, > I just thought > TDI > should examine the interest in this tree has caused and suggested how > everyone could benefit monetarily... (?) > Poly > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:46 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading original art would be something there, yes, then they would have to consider copyright there, I think./.. > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:25 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > > > In a message dated 2/11/2002 4:53:37 PM Central Standard Time, > jshoults@f... writes: > > > > Well, I agree that TDI should go right on ahead and sell > them. But as for > > passing along any profits to anyone else, even those who > remastered them, > > now we're in strange territory: It's already theirs! I > don't see any > > application of the Lockean Proviso here. > > > > *I didn't get this one the first time.... Of course if TD > pulls their own > tapes out of the vault, remasters them and does their own > art... What I was > suggesting was here was this tree as a ready made package for > them... IF THEY > USE artwork or remastering done here it would only be fair > that the person > concerned got compensated somehow. > I stated clearly that TD would obviously get the largest cut, this is > obvious, but how would it be unfair if they used art > generated here to give > the artist a small cut? > That's all I was suggesting. > Poly > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:47 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Converting the shn edition I'm also going to need some initial coaching on the SHN burning process, as well, at least for anything that is not explained on the site where you download the program. I have already received numerous ... well, I wouldn't call them 'complaints', per se, but they certainly expressed that the voluminous discussions about formats and such were overwhelming in January, which was, by the way, a record month for message volume. I suggest we move all SHN and burning/technical questions offlist. I already have a place for us to go and discuss these things that is most appropriate, called 'CDHotline'. just click here and hit 'Send': mailto:cdhotline-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > -----Original Message----- > From: H. [mailto:gae@g...] > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:40 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Converting the shn edition > > > Hi. > I will have to convert the shn files for my 'sub branch' to > redbook audio. > > Are there any hints about that? > > I'd like to know if there is a preferred gap size (if the > audio cds contains > several tracks) and if the audio cd should contain markers. > > thanks > > Herbert > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32132 Re: Converting the shn edition Mark Filipak Tue 2/12/2002 4 KB 32134 Re: Converting the shn edition Karl W. Reinsch Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB 32142 Re: Converting the shn edition michael_berling Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB 32143 Re: Converting the shn edition Mark Filipak Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB 33062 Re: Converting the shn edition Vince LeGrand Thu 3/28/2002 3 KB 33065 Re: Converting the shn edition Joe Shoults Fri 3/29/2002 2 KB 33066 Re: Converting the shn edition Antonio Nunes Fri 3/29/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:32 pm Subject: inferno news caught this over the weekend on the tdi website: march presale bundle for inferno from tdi's website. regular onsale may/june didn't see it mentioned here, yet--sorry if it has been already. --T _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'albenson' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:37 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading Joe (our fearless leader) wrote: [excerpt from Joe's first posts of three] >> '...But the fact that this is all a friendly effort may make >> you think Edgar's a jerk if he didn't give something >> back to the fans for having done all his production >> work for him, but I'd have to disagree. He already >> paid us in advance with his performance, didn't he?' << Yep! I gotta agree with you Joe... In fact, for this 'Inferno' CD package, I'm wondering about their use of the word *bundle* that they use? ~lol~ Figure the disc, a tee-shirt and maybe something *extra* special... ;-) Besides, I've already heard the divine 'Alte Musik Festival' concert 'Inferno' (~La Divina Commedia~), but that's hardly going to stop me from picking up yet another one. After all -- why stop now? Al's TD motto #1: 'TD diehards NEVER stop!' Best Always, -- Al Berkeley, CA / USA My TD personal homepage: http://marspolaris.tripod.com/index.html PS: Sorry about all those typos & grammar miscues in subject: 'D: Boot [Danger Live] (was: Re: Invisible melodies)' posted last. At the very least I got the bloody track times right. :-) Now, I've got a new TD diehard rule: 'Absolutely NO Tadream posting BEFORE bedtime.' ~lol~ NP: Parallel Dreams (Vol. II), discs #6 'Silver Horns' (aka: 'Silver Scale'). Rock on TD -- as you never fail to please! ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading From: 'Joe Shoults' > original art would be something there, yes, then they would have to consider > copyright there, I think./.. Quite frankly if Edgar and co. contacted us with an offer to clean up half a dozen concert master tapes and produce the artwork for an official release, I'd do it for free. Come on Edgar. Call my bluff. I dare ya. What are you, chicken? Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading I did not know that calling someone from Europe Chicken would get a response. I always thought that a American thing. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tree cover art ready for downloading > From: 'Joe Shoults' > > > > original art would be something there, yes, then they would have to > consider > > copyright there, I think./.. > > > Quite frankly if Edgar and co. contacted us with an offer to clean up half a > dozen concert master tapes and produce the artwork for an official release, > I'd do it for free. > > Come on Edgar. Call my bluff. I dare ya. What are you, chicken? > > > Maff > > _______________________________________________________ > www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru > www.tachyon-tv.co.uk > www.eclipsecafe.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:51 am Subject: Re: The Piano Solo Did I miss something? What is this piano solo you are talking about? I play improvisational piano too (mostly jazz), I'd be interested in hearing it. Peace Orangefunk --- In tadream@y..., wrote: > Quoten Morgan Feldon : > > > As for this being mostly noodling, Saturday's 74 minutes alone are > > incredible and I listen to them often. I really hope a 2-3 disc edition > > comes out, not for completeness sake, but because I really think there are > > 2-3 discs worth of music that can stand on its own two feet. > > It's all improvised. > I must say that some things turned out very good but there > are are also some things that are not that good. > First release will be a 1CD but we might put out an extra > disc later this year, if everything goes well. > > Marcel > http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels > mengels@w... > man, it's been ages since I updated my webpage :-) From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:00 am Subject: Piano solo? >Did I miss something? What is this piano solo you are talking about? > >I play improvisational piano too (mostly jazz), I'd be interested in >hearing it. > >Peace >Orangefunk This was Dave Brewer's performance of the 1986 Tangerine Dream piano solo, as played at the Okefenokee Swamp in Georgia in 2001. The third annual Okefenokee event takes place in April of this year. 5 artists, all inspired in one way or the other by Tangerine Dream playing live improvised music. Magic. -Morgan From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Converting the shn edition Joe Shoults wrote: > > I'm also going to need some initial coaching on the SHN burning process, as > well, at least for anything that is not explained on the site where you > download the program. I just joined the CDHotline list. Thanks Joe. I noticed that there is about 1 post per month. Do the folks there know what's about to descend on them? I'm posting this in both places (here and CDHotline) to sort of 'lead the brigade'. Suppose you are a SHN branch - If your customer is also SHN, then what you are going to do is create a DATA CD. Proceed as you would when creating any data CD, using the files on your supplier's CDR as food. - If your customer is Redbook, then what you are going to do is create a music CD using a pile of WAV files as food. You will need to copy-expand the SHN files on your supplier's CDR to WAV files on your hard disk (see note below). You then can proceed to create a redbook CDR as you would from any pile of WAV files. If multiple files, be sure to get them in the correct order and be sure that the cue list file is okay and compatible with your burning program. Easy CD Creator doesn't appear to support cue lists. What I have always done is split the WAV file apart using a WAV editor and then add each resulting file as a separate track and edit the track name inside ECDC -- be sure to use DOA (disc at once) to avoid 2 second gaps between tracks. Note: You can convert SHN to WAV using the MKW Audio Compression Toolkit (http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact/) or any similar tool you are familiar with. Ciao -- Mark PS: Joe, this is what I got in my 'Welcome to CDHotline' message: The following e-mail commands are available, as well: tadream-subscribe@o... - subscribe to the tadream list. tadream-unsubscribe@o... - unsubscribe from the tadream list. tadream-digest@o... - switch your subscription to daily digest mode. tadream-normal@o... - switch your subscription to normal mode. CDHotline-owner@o... Tadream? Onelist? Ooops. -- M. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32134 Re: Converting the shn edition Karl W. Reinsch Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB 32142 Re: Converting the shn edition michael_berling Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB From: 'PERGAMON' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:45 am Subject: Okefenokee Hi Would anyone please be so kind to supply me or direct me to anyone with the music from the Okefenokee gatherings............................Can't be there myself, so hopefully the music can give me a glimpse of the moment.............. Thanks in advance...................... Jan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32147 Re: Okefenokee mengels@w... Tue 2/12/2002 2 KB From: 'Karl W. Reinsch' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:58 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Converting the shn edition On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Mark Filipak wrote: > > - If your customer is Redbook, then what you are going to do is > create a music CD using a pile of WAV files as food. You will need to > copy-expand the SHN files on your supplier's CDR to WAV files on your > hard disk (see note below). You then can proceed to create a redbook > CDR as you would from any pile of WAV files. If multiple files, be > sure to get them in the correct order and be sure that the cue list > file is okay and compatible with your burning program. > > Easy CD Creator doesn't appear to support cue lists. What I have > always done is split the WAV file apart using a WAV editor and then > add each resulting file as a separate track and edit the track name > inside ECDC -- be sure to use DOA (disc at once) to avoid 2 second > gaps between tracks. Ok, here's my question, then - Are you saying that the SHN files are just a single file for the whole concert? So, any leaf who wants to make RedBook cds from the SHN files, and doesn't have software that supports cuelists, has to split the WAV files themselves? How will they know exactly where to split the files? As someone who uses Easy CD Creator, what could I easily and cheaply use that would support the cuelists? -karl. karl@r... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32142 Re: Converting the shn edition michael_berling Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 3:18 am Subject: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists (was: Converting the shn edition) 'Karl W. Reinsch' wrote: -snip- > Are you saying that the SHN files are just a single file for the whole > concert? So, any leaf who wants to make RedBook cds from the SHN files, > and doesn't have software that supports cuelists, has to split the WAV > files themselves? > How will they know exactly where to split the files? After you convert SHN to WAV, listen to it. You should be able to decide for yourself where to split it. > As someone who uses Easy CD Creator, what could I easily and cheaply use > that would support the cuelists? To be frank, I don't know. Last month someone mentioned a burning program that will do this, but of course, their message is buried in the mountain of posts for last month. I think that they even mentioned that the program is free. Unfortunately, message subject lines don't always (or even often) reflect what the message is about, so finding this message would be a problem. I just searched all the messages for subject includes '[tree]' .AND. body includes either 'cue' .OR. 'track' and couldn't find the message. I'm hoping that whoever posted the message will read this and repost. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32159 Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue list C. Chambers Wed 2/13/2002 3 KB From: 'Dave Brewer' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 3:32 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Okefenokee 2001 CD(s)? >Dave, you guys may have just been noodling, but it sounded good to me! > >And as for the piano solo, I thought you were going to send us a recording >you were happy with? Guess you just never got a 'round tuit'. (Like I didn't >get around to sending you that Japanese drumming I mentioned - I'll bring it >with me in April, I _promise_.*) I hope you'll be giving a repeat >performance this year? I guess I was going to record it sometime. But I was working on my latest CDR project, and also recorded a new (not piano-based) track for the second Dreamwatchers' Tales comp. I guess I have more motivation to work on original music instead of covers. I can at least practice it so I may redeem myself with a more decent performance this year (assuming everyone there wants to hear it). As for the taiko music, you really don't have to go through the trouble (I had forgotten all about it), though I appreciate it! > >*This applies to your African compilation too, Frank. >....and Marcel's Clockwork Orange OST. >.........and Bill's Kosmische Musik sleeve notes. >Guess I'd better get busy! > Hey Marion and Marcel! (and anyone else who's interested) Did you know that Wendy Carlos' soundtrack to Tron just (finally) got issued onto CD late last month? I made sure to get that on preorder. It was the first album of electronic music I owned, and that was nearly 20 years ago! I was the impressionable age of 10 years. To this day I think it's the best blending of synth and orchestra (even more than the stuff Franke has done). I just wish that it didn't take me another 7 years before discovering TD's music. I'm pretty sure I would have liked it even back then. I guess there wasn't much TD content in there. Sorry! How 'bout this... I'm looking forward to hearing the Inferno album! :-) Regards, Dave B. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32148 OT: Tron mengels@w... Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:16 am Subject: Security patch for MS Internet Explorer For anyone on the list using Internet Explorer 5.01 SP2 (with Windows 2000 only), Internet Explorer 5.5 SP1 or SP2 or Internet Explorer 6.0, I have been advised by my anti-virus software distributor that Microsoft has just brought out a new patch (Q316059.exe) that fixes a number of both recent and past vulnerability problems with IE. The release date is yesterday, 11 February. I would strongly advise that this patch be installed without further delay to afford maximum protection for one's system. Go to http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms02-005.asp There's a 15 page document explaining what the patch is all about and I've printed it out for perusal later. I've already installed the patch. (You can look under IE's Help/About to check that the above Q number is listed when it's done) From: 'tangram12' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:28 am Subject: Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists hi all i use a program called CDRWIN, this supports cue lists and can be found in lots of places on the net, here is one link. http://liaokai.com/softw_en/download.htm, look under CD-R/RW tools and it is version CDRWIN V3.8g (2002/1/26) that you want make sure to download the keygenerator aswell. Thanks Duncan McKee Tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32139 Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue list PERGAMON Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB 32140 Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue list tangram12 Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB From: 'PERGAMON' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists Hmmmmm I think this is what you call illegal software............... Regards Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: 'tangram12' To: Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:28 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists > hi all > i use a program called CDRWIN, this supports cue lists and can be > found in lots of places on the net, here is one link. > http://liaokai.com/softw_en/download.htm, look under CD-R/RW tools > and it is version CDRWIN V3.8g (2002/1/26) that you want make sure to > download the keygenerator aswell. > > Thanks > > Duncan McKee > Tangram@t... > www.tadream.co.uk > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32140 Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue list tangram12 Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB From: 'tangram12' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 11:01 am Subject: Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists yes this version is but i bought mine from the goldenhawks website at www.goldenhawk.com Duncan --- In tadream@y..., 'PERGAMON' wrote: > Hmmmmm I think this is what you call illegal software............... > > Regards > Jan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'tangram12' > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:28 AM > Subject: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists > > > > hi all > > i use a program called CDRWIN, this supports cue lists and can be > > found in lots of places on the net, here is one link. > > http://liaokai.com/softw_en/download.htm, look under CD-R/RW tools > > and it is version CDRWIN V3.8g (2002/1/26) that you want make sure to > > download the keygenerator aswell. > > > > Thanks > > > > Duncan McKee > > Tangram@t... > > www.tadream.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From: cosmos1@w... Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:05 pm Subject: 2 cd's for sale sorry for this commercial :) edgar froese - ages cd http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1513413789 klaus kruger - collection cd http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1513420802 regards andre From: 'michael_berling' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:49 pm Subject: Re: Converting the shn edition --- In tadream@y..., 'Karl W. Reinsch' wrote: > Ok, here's my question, then - > > Are you saying that the SHN files are just a single file for the whole > concert? So, any leaf who wants to make RedBook cds from the SHN files, > and doesn't have software that supports cuelists, has to split the WAV > files themselves? > How will they know exactly where to split the files? > Regarding the SHN files of Tangerine Tree that I have created: With the exception of Bernau, each track on the redbook CDs corresponds to a single SHN file. The SHN files are titled tadreamYYYY-MM-DDdDtTT with YYYY-MM-DD being the date of the concert, D the Redbook disc number and TT the Redbook track number. Thus, the Nottingham concert has the following SHN files: tadream1976-11-08d1t01.shn tadream1976-11-08d1t02.shn tadream1976-11-08d1t03.shn Furthermore tracks belonging to different Redbook discs are located in different subdirectories (in the above example there is only one, tadream1976-11-08d1), thus it's quite easy to find the correct files and their order to create Redbooks. For Bernau I have created one SHN file for the whole show (tadream2001-10-07d1t01.shn) only, because the tracks are consecutive and I supposed there would be gaps when creating different SHNs for each track. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Regards Michael From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 1:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Converting the shn edition michael_berling wrote: -snip- > For Bernau I have created one SHN file for the whole show > (tadream2001-10-07d1t01.shn) only, because the tracks are consecutive > and I supposed there would be gaps when creating different SHNs for > each track. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Consider yourself corrected, Michael. :-0 Converting to or from SHN doesn't add anything that isn't in the original WAV file. If the ripper adds a silence pad to the WAV files it creates, then the SHN file will have that pad also, but in compressed form. If you cut up a big WAV file into a series of smaller WAV files, making SHN files and then expanding them back to WAV and then burning them to redbook using DAO will not add any silence between tracks. There is one exception, and that is a characteristic of the WAV editor: If when you cut, you do not cut along a 588 sample frame boundary, then the WAV editor will fill out the last frame with either silence or garbage. In other words, the length of a WAV file must be a whole multiple of 588 samples. At 44100 samples per second, that translates to 75 frames per second. (44100 samples/sec)/(588 samples/frame) = 75 frames/sec. A modern WAV editor should help you to make this cut perfectly. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 3:56 pm Subject: warez verboten on list (was RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning pr ogram that supports cue lists) right - I didn't catch that. warez/cracks/hacks is a no-no on the list; please have people contact you offlist to discuss anything that circumvents legal licensing strictures or is even questionable. Thanks! having said that, it's been years since I used it, but I remember CDRWin as being very easy to use, and very error-free. But since I found Nero, I haven't looked back. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: PERGA > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:34 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue > lists > > > Hmmmmm I think this is what you call illegal software............... > > Regards > Jan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'tangr > > hi all > > i use a program called CDRWIN, this supports cue lists and can be > > found in lots of places on the net, here is one link. From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 4:14 pm Subject: Re: warez verboten on list (was RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists) Yea that is not a good thing to post, off list is much better if you are going to talk about that. The best choice would be just to buy it. If I find a source for the shn's, I will ask the person who is not going thru all the crap to convert, subtract etc. them to audio, how to do, as I do not want to make a life long project out of this. I just want to be able to take the files and make a audio disk out of them. After attending 5 long years of calculus in college, I do not want to add, subtract, or even think math. I made it a rule that if it isn't simple, leave it alone. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:56 AM Subject: warez verboten on list (was RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists) > right - I didn't catch that. warez/cracks/hacks is a no-no on the list; > please have people contact you offlist to discuss anything that circumvents > legal licensing strictures or is even questionable. > > Thanks! > > having said that, it's been years since I used it, but I remember CDRWin as > being very easy to use, and very error-free. But since I found Nero, I > haven't looked back. > > Joe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PERGA > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:34 AM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] Burning program that supports cue > > lists > > > > > > Hmmmmm I think this is what you call illegal software............... > > > > Regards > > Jan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'tangr > > > hi all > > > i use a program called CDRWIN, this supports cue lists and can be > > > found in lots of places on the net, here is one link. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Marcel Engels' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 4:22 pm Subject: OT: Tron >Dave mentioned the Tron soundtrack: I posted a reply but somehow it didn't get thru. I remember Tron very good and was also about 10 years old. I was young and had a CBM64 so it was no question about it whether or not I was going to see the movie. I vaguely remember the soundtrack too and it was very good, although I wasn't into electronic music that heavily. Coincidentally this week I read there was going to be a special edition DVD of Tron, plus I'm getting my new hometheatre set this weekend so... :-) Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee >Quoten PERGAMON : > > Hi > > Would anyone please be so kind to supply me or direct me to anyone with > the music from the Okefenokee gatherings............................Can't be > there myself, so hopefully the music can give me a glimpse of the > moment.............. > > Thanks in advance...................... I believe it's still available at various sites like Groove, Quantum and SMD. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 4:08 pm Subject: OT: Tron > Quoten Dave Brewer : > > Hey Marion and Marcel! (and anyone else who's interested) Did you know that > Wendy Carlos' soundtrack to Tron just (finally) got issued onto CD late last > month? I made sure to get that on preorder. It was the first album of > electronic music I owned, and that was nearly 20 years ago! I was the > impressionable age of 10 years. To this day I think it's the best blending > of synth and orchestra (even more than the stuff Franke has done). I just > wish that it didn't take me another 7 years before discovering TD's music. > I'm pretty sure I would have liked it even back then. I remember the Tron movie quite good. I was also around 10 years old and had a CBM64 at that time so there was no question about whether or not I was going to see this movie. It was great and it still is...although I think a lot of people would think: whats all that fuss about the crappy computer graphics. But it was/made a landmark in computer graphics for movies. I only remember a few moments of the soundtrack and it was also very good. Coincidentally this week I read that a special edition DVD of Tron has come out and I'm getting my hometheatre set this weekend... Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: 'PERGAMON' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 5:10 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee Thanks Marcel, I'll try these sites............... Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Okefenokee > >Quoten PERGAMON : > > > > Hi > > > > Would anyone please be so kind to supply me or direct me to anyone with > > the music from the Okefenokee gatherings............................Can't be > > there myself, so hopefully the music can give me a glimpse of the > > moment.............. > > > > Thanks in advance...................... > > I believe it's still available at various sites like > Groove, Quantum and SMD. > > Marcel > http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels > mengels@w... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'koulos' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 6:12 pm Subject: Kneuss hello to all after the reminder of someone saying that he palyed disk #6 out of pararell dream vol 2 i put on the same disk [so many disks full with great music so dificult to put one out in order to put the other in] And then it was an new expirience track no 11 Kneuss OST 1979 3,59 so what the story with this OST? i never heard of it so far ,am i some kind of blind or what? and to a second one about this song ... it strongly reminds me of moby's guitar flute and strings from his play album anyone else see the similarity? kostas from greece ps anyone else out there that does the same thing as me? put the cd on the player and never see what the track name is ? i found myself to recognise TD tunes and being unable to tell the name [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32155 Re: Kneuss fozziebear Tue 2/12/2002 3 KB 32552 Kneuss Klaus Beschorner Wed 3/6/2002 2 KB From: atye@a... Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 6:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: Tron I just bought the 'anniversary' edition of the movie last week on VHS....gonna watch it this week. :-) ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: René Brenner Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:19 pm Subject: Tangerine Dream Discography hello all i'm new on this list. i'd like to know what is the best tangerine dream discgraphy available with every album and every bootleg ever made. thanks rené From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:34 pm Subject: Re: Cyclone Cyclone! Yes a very underrated album. I personally found Jolliffe's musical contribution (ignore the vocals) particularly pleasing. I assume most fans on this list will have the Richard Wahnfried (aka Klaus Schulze) album 'Miditation' which contains a big contribution by Steve Jolliffe. Very, very reminiscent of his playing on Cyclone. I must dig the LP out, as I haven't played it in a long while. How many others also find that with CD's now we hardly ever spin the vinyl. Also does anyone know if the 'Miditation' album is available on CD? Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: orangefunk_2000 [mailto:orangefunk_2000@y...] Sent: 29 January 2002 23:55 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] Re: Cyclone Cyclone is a very special LP for me as it marked my first purchase of a TD album way back in 84. Just seeing the words Oberheim and sequencers for me meant that it was something else I could grab onto other than the Jarres and Vangelis materials that I knew about at the time. Cyclone gets such a bad rap in my opinion. The vocals are different to say the least but the musicianship is far and away above anything I've heard from TD. When i listen to this LP, I feel a mixture of feelings, lots of different images esp on Madrigal Meridian which has some great Solina Ensemble all over it...wish my own Solina worked!! Joliffe is an incredible flute player, horn player etc etc... I could listen to his playing for the rest of my life. I wouldn't be surprised if the TD old guard were a bit miffed that this LP sounded like it was all Joliffe. I can't believe that Edgar feels it shouldn't have been released (as I've read). This LP was pivotal in my development as a musician and a music lover. It ranks up there as my fav TD LP along with Encore, the textures of the sound are incredible with violin sounds and massed horns.. very medieval sounding in places.. and very English sounding too. The drums/sequencer combination also made it a much more dynamic affair than other LPs. Wish there was more like this about.. Peace Orangefunk From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:37 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Cyclone Isn't that I would not spin vinyl, but that table has become flaky as well as the needle is broke. I have been having hard time to find a replacement and or justify the expense now as well. Just happens to be one of the few pieces that was left when someone borrowed several key components a few years back. It and the timer was left. I am not sure what meaning that has. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' To: Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:34 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Cyclone > Cyclone! > > Yes a very underrated album. I personally found Jolliffe's musical > contribution (ignore the vocals) particularly pleasing. > > I assume most fans on this list will have the Richard Wahnfried (aka Klaus > Schulze) album 'Miditation' which contains a big contribution by Steve > Jolliffe. Very, very reminiscent of his playing on Cyclone. I must dig the > LP out, as I haven't played it in a long while. > > How many others also find that with CD's now we hardly ever spin the vinyl. > Also does anyone know if the 'Miditation' album is available on CD? > > Kevin. > -----Original Message----- > From: orangefunk_2000 [mailto:orangefunk_2000@y...] > Sent: 29 January 2002 23:55 > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Cyclone > > Cyclone is a very special LP for me as it marked my first purchase of a TD > album way back in 84. Just seeing the words Oberheim and sequencers for me > meant that it was something else I could grab onto other than the Jarres and > Vangelis materials that I knew about at the time. > > Cyclone gets such a bad rap in my opinion. The vocals are different to say > the least but the musicianship is far and away above anything I've heard > from TD. When i listen to this LP, I feel a mixture of feelings, lots of > different images esp on Madrigal Meridian which has some great Solina > Ensemble all over it...wish my own Solina worked!! > > Joliffe is an incredible flute player, horn player etc etc... I could > listen to his playing for the rest of my life. I wouldn't be surprised if > the TD old guard were a bit miffed that this LP sounded like it was all > Joliffe. I can't believe that Edgar feels it shouldn't have been released > (as I've read). > > This LP was pivotal in my development as a musician and a music lover. It > ranks up there as my fav TD LP along with Encore, the textures of the sound > are incredible with violin sounds and massed horns.. very medieval sounding > in places.. and very English sounding too. > > The drums/sequencer combination also made it a much more dynamic affair than > other LPs. Wish there was more like this about.. > > Peace > Orangefunk > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'fozziebear' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Kneuss kostas from greece said 'ps anyone else out there that does the same thing as me? put the cd on the player and never see what the track name is ? i found myself to recognise TD tunes and being unable to tell the name' I do this all the time. I don't know what the names of tracks are on CD's. I can remember the music when I hear it. Usually I play live stuff by TD, Schulze, Banco de Gaia. I can play TD at work most of the day on my computer CD drive, except when I am seeing clients. Normally the music is on constant repeat and quiet. But today I was on the phone to somebody who asked if I had GMTV on in the background. I said no - just Valentine Wheels! Once I had a CD on pause whilst I was seeing a client and accidentally pressed the keyboard. It started the CD going again. So there was this audience applause coming out of the speakers which surprised my client as she could not figure out where it was coming from. She couldn't see the speakers. I have an Ikea desk which is just a large sheet of glass on trestles with my speakers and files resting on the trestles. I shine lights through the glass so on dull days its like having a sound and light show. Orchids, lemon trees and ferns grew well. It looks like a conservatory with a view over the roof tops of a seaside town. My argument was if we are going to work long hours, let's enjoy it. Now if I can just persuade them to use computer projectors on the wall instead of a CD monitor...... but where would I keep the mountain bike? David From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:22 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Cyclone and Turntables Cyclone is one of my faves too. I like the bizarre vocals, which transport me to 'altered states'. (anyone remember that film?) On the subject of turntables, I had a break-in in 97 and they took all my stereo equipment except for the turntable. They even took a top-loader VCR that barely worked, and left a fairly high-end turntable that was in excellent condition. I guess there's no accounting for taste... James (and no, I've never ended up at the zoo after hearing 'Bent Cold Sidewalk...') > -----Original Message----- > From: Administrator for kay-net.com [mailto:admin@k...] Just happens to be > one of the few > pieces that was left when someone borrowed several key > components a few > years back. It and the timer was left. I am not sure what > meaning that has. From: 'tei waz' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:53 pm Subject: [boot] bourbon st. atari party thought I'd ask about this as it being mardi gras and all--anyone want to comment on this bootleg? I haven't heard it. Bourbon street atari party thanks in advance, --T _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32177 Re: [boot] bourbon st. atari party Owens, James Wed 2/13/2002 3 KB From: 'Simon W. Hood' Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 12:00 am Subject: Re: Richard Wahnfried 'Miditation' > > Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:34:34 -0000 > From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' >Subject: Re: Cyclone > >Cyclone! > >Yes a very underrated album. I personally found Jolliffe's musical >contribution (ignore the vocals) particularly pleasing. > >I assume most fans on this list will have the Richard Wahnfried (aka Klaus >Schulze) album 'Miditation' which contains a big contribution by Steve >Jolliffe. Very, very reminiscent of his playing on Cyclone. I must dig the >LP out, as I haven't played it in a long while. > >How many others also find that with CD's now we hardly ever spin the vinyl. >Also does anyone know if the 'Miditation' album is available on CD? > >Kevin. 'Miditation' is (or was) available on CD. It was digitally re-mastered and released in 1990 on the IC / Digit Music label, as no. IC 710.096. I agree that Steve Jolliffe's playing on it is very reminiscent of 'Cyclone'. In fact, the first time I heard the album, I thought he was going to burst into 'Bent Cold Sidewalk' at one point. According to the CD insert, the LP version 'was on the market only a very short time'. So you might have a valuable rarity there, Kevin. Simon -- Simon W. Hood From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 3:53 am Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Burning program that supports cue lists (was: Converting the shn edition) CDRWIN (www.goldenhawk.com) or EAC both support cuesheets... > > As someone who uses Easy CD Creator, what could I easily and cheaply use > > that would support the cuelists? > > To be frank, I don't know. Last month someone mentioned a burning > program that will do this, but of course, their message is buried > in the mountain of posts for last month. I think that they even > mentioned that the program is free. Unfortunately, message > subject lines don't always (or even often) reflect what the > message is about, so finding this message would be a problem. > > I just searched all the messages for subject includes '[tree]' > .AND. body includes either 'cue' .OR. 'track' and couldn't find > the message. > > I'm hoping that whoever posted the message will read this and repost. From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 12:51 pm Subject: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue lists) [message originally posted to tadream list] Oh, my. I didn't know EAC is also a burning program -- new discovery. Does anyone have any experience burning with EAC? Was it good, bad, or what? I don't want to make a coaster set just to try it out. Thanks -- Mark 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > CDRWIN (www.goldenhawk.com) or EAC both support cuesheets... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32161 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support C. Chambers Wed 2/13/2002 5 KB 32163 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support 3N Wed 2/13/2002 4 KB 32175 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support C. Chambers Wed 2/13/2002 4 KB 32171 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support Mark Filipak Wed 2/13/2002 3 KB 32172 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support Joe Shoults Wed 2/13/2002 3 KB 32176 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support C. Chambers Wed 2/13/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 1:56 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue lists) It is all I use now, since my 'old' version of CDRWIN doesn't support my 'new' Plextor burner and I don't feel like buying another copy. I actually like EAC better, now that I am used to it. Only problem is that alot of burners are not supported. Good thing is that it supports 'overburning' which I think Roxio doesn't. I don't like to overburn, but sometimes there is that 81 minute show that I hate to split and burn on 2 CDs for the extra minute. EAC works wonderfully. Highly recommended if your burner is supported...all Plextors are. Just bought a new 24x which absolutely smokes...especially on those SHN discs. I can do 700MB in about 3 minutes. I am in heaven. I also burned several audio CDs at 24x and did a bit comparison with the originals which was perfect...which goes against what I have heard that burning at high speed can cause problems. Doing some research on the net, I found that some folks that have done some serious testing claim that high speed burns are actually 'less' likely to introduce errors. I am starting to believe this, but I am not totally convinced yet. As always, your mileage may vary. Another cool thing I found with the Plextor is that it comes bundeled with a program called 'Audio FS' (file system?) that lets tracks show up in Explorer as WAVE files as opposed to .CDA files...so you can do a straight file copy from CD and *DO NOT* have to do a 'Digital Audio Extraction'. This means you can copy CD's as tracks at 40x, without errors! Awesome...but still not sure I trust it to be errorless...still need to do more comparisons. I have found it useful when I have problems extracting using EAC, I just dump it over using Audio FS, and have been happy. Craig > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:52 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com; cdhotline@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue > lists) > > > [message originally posted to tadream list] > > Oh, my. I didn't know EAC is also a burning program -- new discovery. > > Does anyone have any experience burning with EAC? Was it good, > bad, or what? I don't want to make a coaster set just to try it out. > > Thanks -- Mark > > 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > > > CDRWIN (www.goldenhawk.com) or EAC both support cuesheets... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: tadream@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:34 pm Subject: New poll for tadream Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the tadream group: Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't manage to make actually have a concert? o Yes o No o RETIRE o Change Record Companies o Move to the US To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32179 Re: New poll for tadream Miguel Farah F. Thu 2/14/2002 2 KB 32180 Re: New poll for tadream PENFOLD Thu 2/14/2002 2 KB 32184 OT: Mike Oldfield TheInfection Thu 2/14/2002 2 KB 32186 Re: OT: Mike Oldfield Gustavo Jobim Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB 32210 OT: Mike Oldfield Man In The Rain Maxi CD Jeffrey Au Yeung Fri 2/15/2002 3 KB From: '3N' Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue lists) Hello! ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Chambers > > EAC works wonderfully. Highly recommended if your burner is supported...all > Plextors are. Just bought a new 24x which absolutely smokes...especially on > those SHN discs. I can do 700MB in about 3 minutes. I am in heaven. I > also burned several audio CDs at 24x and did a bit comparison with the > originals which was perfect...which goes against what I have heard that > burning at high speed can cause problems. Doing some research on the net, I You said audio x24? OK, your own risk, maybe without any errors, maybe. But tell me Craig why in the newest Plextor model (40,12,40), witch is special produced for audio recording with many high-top technologies directly from stationary-studio burned (he he, prof for the masses?), the meximum speed of audio burning is _only_ x8??? > > Another cool thing I found with the Plextor is that it comes bundeled with a > program called 'Audio FS' (file system?) that lets tracks show up in > Explorer as WAVE files as opposed to .CDA files...so you can do a straight > file copy from CD and *DO NOT* have to do a 'Digital Audio Extraction'. Oh, no. It's simply driver for digital audio extraction for drag&drop method in Windows Explorer. It can be used for any burned and cd- or dvd-rom. But nothing more! regards JerzyK ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Czy widziales juz najnowsze wiadomosci? >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32175 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support C. Chambers Wed 2/13/2002 4 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream > Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't > manage to make actually have a concert? ??? London May 12 2001...Warsaw August 31 2001.....Bernau October 7 2001.....!!! > From: quarlie@a... Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 3:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream In a message dated 2/13/02 9:37:24 AM, tadream@yahoogroups.com writes: >Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't >manage to make actually have a concert? You have no chance to survive make your time. (Sorry... I know AYB jokes are passe.) --Daniel NP: Dream Theater - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence From: 'lafoote' Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 2:27 pm Subject: Cincinnati Concert CANCELED What's up with this? This is the second time TD has CANCELED here. I bought tickets in early November AGAIN, only to find out that they CANCELED again yesterday. Does TD ACTUALLY exist anymore? How can they expect fan support if this continues here in the USA. See message below. Electric Mike Tangerine Dream February 13, 2002 - 8:00PM Cancelled!!!!!! Due to the record label pulling the band's tour support, this event has been cancelled again. Refunds available at point of purchase Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32214 Re: Cincinnati Concert CANCELED TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Fri 2/15/2002 4 KB 32215 Re: Cincinnati Concert CANCELED Mark Filipak Fri 2/15/2002 5 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:07 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] New poll for tadream As I hit the 'delete' button on this poll, I'll point out that yes, I have made the polling feature available to all members. But this is not so that you can abuse the polling feature to display your personal, uninformed angst. This poll had no redeeming merit. In the midst of writing this, I see that in all fairness, 'Electric Mike' has been misinformed. Someone explained the reason for the cancellation to him as, 'Due to the record label pulling the band's tour support, this event has been cancelled again.' This is probably one of those 'stock' answers they use to swat away livid ticket buyers. We know this to not be true because we've discussed it here, and he has just joined. Please use the polling feature responsibly. Thanks, Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: tadream@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tadream@yahoogroups.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:35 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] New poll for tadream > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > tadream group: > > Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't > manage to make actually have a concert? > > o Yes > o No > o RETIRE > o Change Record Companies > o Move to the US > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 4:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream sorry I just refuse to vote. I say this is funny but after all I am still trying to get my funds back from the tickets I purchased for last year TD in Venture. So I am not laughing much. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: [tadream] New poll for tadream > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > tadream group: > > Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't > manage to make actually have a concert? > > o Yes > o No > o RETIRE > o Change Record Companies > o Move to the US > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] New poll for tadream oh and BTW, welcome to the list, Electric Mike! I hope you find it a useful resource for up-to-date and ACCURATE info. :-) Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Shoults [mailto:jshoults@f...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:08 AM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] New poll for tadream > > > As I hit the 'delete' button on this poll, I'll point out > that yes, I have > made the polling feature available to all members. But this > is not so that > you can abuse the polling feature to display your personal, uninformed > angst. This poll had no redeeming merit. > > In the midst of writing this, I see that in all fairness, > 'Electric Mike' > has been misinformed. Someone explained the reason for the > cancellation to > him as, 'Due to the record label pulling the band's tour > support, this event > has been cancelled again.' This is probably one of those > 'stock' answers > they use to swat away livid ticket buyers. > > We know this to not be true because we've discussed it here, > and he has just > joined. > > Please use the polling feature responsibly. > > Thanks, > Joe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tadream@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tadream@yahoogroups.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:35 AM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] New poll for tadream > > > > > > > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > > tadream group: > > > > Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't > > manage to make actually have a concert? > > > > o Yes > > o No > > o RETIRE > > o Change Record Companies > > o Move to the US > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Scott' Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 5:42 pm Subject: Rainbow Drive Speaking of obscure soundtracks, Rainbow Drive was on the Encore Mystery Channel a few weeks ago. I taped it and watched it. Pretty good soundtrack, OK movie. Scott From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue lists) 'C. Chambers' wrote: > -snip good information about EAC. Thanks Craig.- > > Another cool thing I found with the Plextor is that it comes bundeled with a > program called 'Audio FS' (file system?) that lets tracks show up in > Explorer as WAVE files as opposed to .CDA files...so you can do a straight > file copy from CD and *DO NOT* have to do a 'Digital Audio Extraction'. > This means you can copy CD's as tracks at 40x, without errors! > Awesome...but still not sure I trust it to be errorless...still need to do > more comparisons. I have found it useful when I have problems extracting > using EAC, I just dump it over using Audio FS, and have been happy. I believe this is another case of hidden operation. What you claim above cannot be true. Just because 'Audio FS' shows the CDDA as files, it must still rip to get them. The 'files' cannot be stored as both CDDA (i.e., redbook) .AND. WAV files. There simply is not enough capacity on the CDR to store both. What must be happening is that DAO is happening behind the scenes. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 6:30 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue lists) I think these discussions, while worthwhile and interesting to me, are more suited for the CDHotline list. I'm taking a stab in the dark here, but I think we've exhausted this subject for the tadream list general membership. Let's please try to take them either off-list or the the CDHotline list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cdhotline Thanks, Joe > -----Original Message----- ... > > Another cool thing I found with the Plextor is that it ... > I believe this is another case of hidden operation. What you > claim above cannot be true. Just because 'Audio FS' shows the > CDDA as files, it must still rip to get them. The 'files' ... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32176 Re: [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that support C. Chambers Wed 2/13/2002 2 KB From: 'michaeljean@e...' Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 6:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Rainbow Drive I agree...Its too bad this hasn't made it out on CD. (Though there was a rumor of it being scheduled for release in the past).... Original Message: ----------------- From: Scott splumer@w... Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:42:21 -0500 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] Rainbow Drive Speaking of obscure soundtracks, Rainbow Drive was on the Encore Mystery Channel a few weeks ago. I taped it and watched it. Pretty good soundtrack, OK movie. Scott ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: tadream@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:02 pm Subject: Reminder - TD CONCERT CANCELED-AGAIN! We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. TD CONCERT CANCELED-AGAIN! Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 Time: 8:00PM - 12:00AM EST (GMT-05:00) Cincinnati Concert at Bogarts! NOW CANCELED-AGAIN!!! From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:07 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue lists) > You said audio x24? OK, your own risk, maybe without any errors, > maybe. But > tell me Craig why in the newest Plextor model (40,12,40), witch is special > produced for audio recording with many high-top technologies directly from > stationary-studio burned (he he, prof for the masses?), the > meximum speed of > audio burning is _only_ x8??? I don't know why, and I still am not convinced it is good, but I used some shn files I downloaded (U2 Elevation shows), and to test I burned at 24x, then extracted those files using EAC back to wave, and did a comparison with the original and they were identical...in fact I did it on several discs, so I know it is not a fluke. Now it may be statistically inaccurate to say it *never* increases error rates, but to say it *always* does is inaccurate also. There is a significant writeup about the issues involved with burning at high speed compared to lower speeds, at this spot, for those interested: http://www.emedialive.com/EM2000/starrett5.html That said, I still prefer to burn at slower speeds for audio, as I am not convinced yet. > > program called 'Audio FS' (file system?) that lets tracks show up in > > Explorer as WAVE files as opposed to .CDA files...so you can do > a straight > > file copy from CD and *DO NOT* have to do a 'Digital Audio Extraction'. > > Oh, no. It's simply driver for digital audio extraction for > drag&drop method > in Windows Explorer. It can be used for any burned and cd- or dvd-rom. But > nothing more! I did not realize that...granted the documentation is kinda spotty, so now I know not to use this...thanks (and to Morgan too) for all the insight. Craig From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:11 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] EAC (was: Burning program that supports cue lists) > I think these discussions, while worthwhile and interesting to > me, are more > suited for the CDHotline list. I'm taking a stab in the dark here, but I > think we've exhausted this subject for the tadream list general > membership. > Let's please try to take them either off-list or the the CDHotline list > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cdhotline > > Thanks, > Joe Joe...sorry I read this after my last reply...so no more on tech topics on this list for me. I did subscribe to the cdhotline list. Craig From: 'Owens, James' Date: Wed Feb 13, 2002 7:48 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [boot] bourbon st. atari party Typical 88 show, nice audience recording. This is the complete show, put to CD from the master by the taper (if I recall correctly). Recorded (obviously) in New Orleans. James > -----Original Message----- > From: tei waz [mailto:teiwazbarana@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:54 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com; teiwazbarana@h... > Subject: [tadream] [boot] bourbon st. atari party > > > thought I'd ask about this as it being mardi gras and > all--anyone want to > comment on this bootleg? I haven't heard it. > > Bourbon street atari party > > thanks in advance, > > --T > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:28 am Subject: ot burn.../tech ??? >and to test I burned at 24x, then extracted those files using EAC back to wave, and did a comparison with the original and they were identical< hmm perhaps your detection software isn't powerful enought to detect relatively minor differences, then again you may just confirm the power of eac..... is your burner ide or scsi-based or??? (sorry, don't answer that onlist) --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32181 Re: ot burn.../tech ??? Mark Filipak Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB From: 'Miguel Farah F.' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 1:23 am Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream tadream@yahoogroups.com [13/02/2002 11:28] dijo/said: > >Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the >tadream group: > >Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't >manage to make actually have a concert? > > o Yes > o No > o RETIRE > o Change Record Companies > o Move to the US I can't help but point out the most obvious flaw in this poll: where is the CowboyNeal option? -- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel@n... #include // http://www.nn.cl/~miguel <*> 'Simple, change the gravitational constant of the Universe.' - Q From: PENFOLD Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream At 02.02.13-14:34, tadream@yahoogroups.com wrote: >Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the tadream group: >To vote, please visit the following web page: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls I just went there.....is it me because I don't see this poll! Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] ot burn.../tech ??? I'd sure like the answers to Tei's questions. Would you take this to CDHotline@yahoogroups.com so we who are interested can peek over your shoulders. Thanks -- Mark tei waz wrote: > > >and to test I burned at 24x, > then extracted those files using EAC back to wave, and did a comparison with > the original and they were identical< > > hmm perhaps your detection software isn't powerful enought to detect > relatively minor differences, then again you may just confirm the power of > eac..... > > is your burner ide or scsi-based or??? (sorry, don't answer that onlist) > > --T > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream March 1975 in Auckland! Yes, I know I'm being sarcastic. I've never heard them live as I didn't get to hear 'Phaedra' till later in the year. So you can consider yourselves lucky. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Heiko Heerssen' To: Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:46 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream > > Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't > > manage to make actually have a concert? > > ??? London May 12 2001...Warsaw August 31 2001.....Bernau October 7 > 2001.....!!! > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: KMJ Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:13 am Subject: Re: bourbon st. atari party > Typical 88 show, nice audience recording. > This is the complete show, put to CD from the master > by the taper (if I recall correctly). Actually the master tape has been lost through the years. This show was transferred from a very clean and well preserved first gen. source. No noise reduction or equalization was used. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32212 Re: bourbon st. atari party C. Chambers Fri 2/15/2002 2 KB From: TheInfection Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:06 am Subject: OT: Mike Oldfield I'm just wondering... how many of you listens to Mike Oldfield's music? I know that few of you are familiar with him. I found his music just recently when I bought Five Miles Out. Then I bought his stuff from 70's and 90's. I am pretty tolerant and I can very well listen the original Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. My most played albums currently are Ommadawn, Orchestral Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. Toughts? Opinions? Anything? Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32186 Re: OT: Mike Oldfield Gustavo Jobim Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB 32210 OT: Mike Oldfield Man In The Rain Maxi CD Jeffrey Au Yeung Fri 2/15/2002 3 KB From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:47 am Subject: RE: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield Ommadawn is my fav ;-) -----Original Message----- From: TheInfection [mailto:rubyconist@y...] Sent: donderdag 14 februari 2002 8:06 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield I'm just wondering... how many of you listens to Mike Oldfield's music? I know that few of you are familiar with him. I found his music just recently when I bought Five Miles Out. Then I bought his stuff from 70's and 90's. I am pretty tolerant and I can very well listen the original Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. My most played albums currently are Ommadawn, Orchestral Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. Toughts? Opinions? Anything? Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32188 Re: OT: Mike Oldfield Antonio Nunes Thu 2/14/2002 2 KB 32195 Re: OT: Mike Oldfield Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB 32203 Re: OT: Mike Oldfield Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:01 pm Subject: Re: OT: Mike Oldfield (hey Joe, for some unknown reason it's working now... just after the carnival ended... I wonder... ;) I started listening to Oldfield months before TD, I'm pretty familiar with his work (except the pop songs period from 1984 to 1989). Oldfield's music sometimes can really touch me, specially in a few albums such as Ommadawn (my favourite) and Amarok. Five Miles Out is probably my most played album, though, with its rocky songs. Taurus II, the first track there, is my favourite Oldfield track. I'd talk a bit more but this isn't the right place, and Í'm at work (with work to do ;) You can contact me if you want to talk more. see ya, GJ > I'm just wondering... how many of you listens to Mike > Oldfield's music? I know that few of you are familiar > with him. > > I found his music just recently when I bought Five > Miles Out. Then I bought his stuff from 70's and 90's. > I am pretty tolerant and I can very well listen the > original Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. My most > played albums currently are Ommadawn, Orchestral > Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. > > Toughts? Opinions? Anything? > > Regards, > TheInfection From: 'Daniel Hobrecht' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:29 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1235 Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't >manage to make actually have a concert? > > > Move to the US Yes, yes and again yes. This would sure as hell make my day! DPH Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32189 Re: Digest Number 1235 orangefunk_2000 Thu 2/14/2002 2 KB 32196 Re: Digest Number 1235 Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield TheInfection wrote: > > I'm just wondering... how many of you listens to Mike > Oldfield's music? I do. Actually I discovered Mike Oldfield's music many years before TD. First exposure was Tubular Bells, heard on the radio in 1974. This album is still my favorite, but I also like very much Hergest Ridge, Ommadawn, Amarok and The Songs of Distant Earth. More recently, The Millennium Bell was a disappointment for me, but Guitars was a pleasant surprise. BTW, my first exposure to TD was also through the radio, but only in 1983 with the album Logos. Antonio From: 'orangefunk_2000' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:40 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 1235 Perhaps they should do a Kraftwerk and send some dummies and a MD/DAT in their place... :-) They could get Chris Franke and Peter Bauman dummies and relive the good old days! probably be just as animated as a typical modern day TD concert! --- In tadream@y..., 'Daniel Hobrecht' wrote: > > Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't > >manage to make actually have a concert? > > > > > > Move to the US > > Yes, yes and again yes. > > This would sure as hell make my day! > > DPH From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:53 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] How I started listening to TD was OT: Mike Oldfield the way I came to Tangerine dream I think it was in the year 1975 : Starting with Yes, Rick Wakeman, Novalis, Jane, Klaus Schulze, Hawkwind, Ash Ra Temple, Mike Oldfield, Uriah Heep, Eloy, ending with Tangerine Dream Since that time: Klaus Schulze is number one, TD closely number two :-) ( and still this period has a great influence at my taste of music ) Bert From: Tom Richmond Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 1:28 pm Subject: Dreamwatchers' Tales II - Last Call for sign-ups Hey gang! Last call for sign-ups for the Dreamwatchers' Tales II tree. Hoping to post a structure by monday. You can sign up at the www.tadream.net (details also available there) website, or contact me directly. Cheers! Tom ___________________________ IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this message in error, please delete the material from your computer and notify the sender by email. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, or distribute this message or its contents to any other person and any such actions may be unlawful Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32197 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II - Last Call for sign- Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB From: tangram12@a... Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:13 pm Subject: Ca va-ca Marche-Ca Ira Encore on ebay hi all i have listed an autograhphed version of the above cd on ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1513765405&r=0&t=0& showTutorial=0&ed=1013941432&indexURL=0&rd=1 this is the last one i can get, so get it while you can. Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'John Vertical' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 2:27 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] How I started listening to TD >the way I came to Tangerine dream Beat this: I first heard TD at the age of 5. And immediately liked it. My dad, almost omnivore when it comes to music, had some self-made collection which included Stratosfear. I liked the track. When I was about 12, when music sort of first time starts becoming really important, I rediscovered that collection and there my serious TD maniacity (or would a serious maniac be a paradox?) started. First year I acquired 1 album; Exit. The next, the amount was also 1. Mars Polaris. Then 11. Then 17. I wonder how many will the total for this year become... How many TD albums do you approximately get in a year? Bootlegs, alternate releases etc. do of course count. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32200 Re: How I started listening to TD Jonathan Holt Thu 2/14/2002 2 KB 32216 Re: How I started listening to TD TheInfection Fri 2/15/2002 2 KB 32230 Re: How I started listening to TD Vincent Goudreault Sat 2/16/2002 3 KB 32231 Re: How I started listening to TD Gustavo Jobim Sat 2/16/2002 2 KB From: tom george Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 3:11 pm Subject: OT-Mike Oldfield His music is wonderful. I have almost his entire catalog. there are gems throughout. some of my favorites are: Hergest Ridge Ommadawn Anorak Millennium Bell Guitar Tubular Bells 3 Some of his music features singers which (although not my favorites) I still like. Millennium Bell has gotten a thrashing from almost every source I have read but I really like it and it grows on me more everytime I listen too it. Very world oriented and a lovely piece of work. Highly reccomended. Tom __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32211 Re: OT-Mike Oldfield C. Chambers Fri 2/15/2002 3 KB 32218 Re: OT-Mike Oldfield Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 2/15/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield Yes. Been a fan since late 70's. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'TheInfection' To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:06 PM Subject: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield > I'm just wondering... how many of you listens to Mike > Oldfield's music? I know that few of you are familiar > with him. > > I found his music just recently when I bought Five > Miles Out. Then I bought his stuff from 70's and 90's. > I am pretty tolerant and I can very well listen the > original Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. My most > played albums currently are Ommadawn, Orchestral > Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. > > Toughts? Opinions? Anything? > > Regards, > TheInfection > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 1235 Why would they move to the US? Grant it, if you are use to the culture of the US, then you are ok. German culture to US? Then the taxes? How long do you think the music would keep it's flavor after living in the US for a period of time? I am not sure that would be a good move for them. Yes, I would be happy of course. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Daniel Hobrecht' To: Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 4:29 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1235 > > Should TD QUIT Touring since they can't > >manage to make actually have a concert? > > > > > > Move to the US > > Yes, yes and again yes. > > This would sure as hell make my day! > > DPH > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales II - Last Call for sign-ups Just want to ensure, I am a leaf. If you need a branch in my area, let me know. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Tom Richmond' To: ; Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:28 AM Subject: [tadream] Dreamwatchers' Tales II - Last Call for sign-ups > Hey gang! > > Last call for sign-ups for the Dreamwatchers' Tales II tree. > > Hoping to post a structure by monday. > > You can sign up at the www.tadream.net (details also available there) > website, or contact me directly. > > Cheers! > > Tom > > ___________________________ > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this message in error, please delete the material from your computer and notify the sender by email. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, or distribute this message or its contents to any other person and any such actions may be unlawful > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:17 pm Subject: Mike Oldfield & my intro to e-music and TD. My absolute favorite Oldfield was Tubular Bells for many years. Then I heard 'Songs of Distant Earth' and all that changed (TB is still a close second, but it's like a different kind of music). 'Songs...' is a masterpiece! If you don't have it, get it! On the subject of how you are introduced to music... My first e-music would be 'The IN sound from WAY OUT', which was a collection of pop songs 'instrumentalised' with signal generators, various 'spacey' effects and real drums and guitar. They were re-titled with spacey titles like 'The girl from Venus' and 'Barnyard in Orbit' (with plenty of synthesized animal effects). My Dad picked that up in 75 or so. I loved to listen to that tape (it was a 7-inch reel-to-reel). When I was a little older he got an album called 'Country Moog: Switched on Nashville' by Gil Trythal (I think) which I guess was supposed to be the Country version of 'Switched on Bach (which I didn't hear until college!). Foggy Mountain Breakdown sure sounds different on the Moog. My favorite track was probably 'Yackety Moog'... My Dad bought the Chariots of Fire soundtrack when it came out. I was already into movie scores (mostly Star Trek and John Williams stuff), and this was one of most spectacular I had heard. Later on in 81 or 82 my Dad starts looking for other things by Vangelis and brings home Opera Sauvage. Another instant favorite. In about 84 there was a Doctor Who convention (Jon Pertwee was the guest) and we picked up 'Doctor Who: The Music' on LP. Fortunately by then I had figured out that I could preserve a record longer by taping it and playing the cassette over and over again. I've worn out several copies of that one. Somewhere along the way I switched from listening to the classical station all the time to a local 'public' station that played a lot of 70's electronics. I may have heard some TD there, but I don't know for sure. This was where I first heard 'Tubular Bells' and Kraftwerk's 'Autobahn'. The station didn't last long in this format unfortunately. I discovered 'Axel F' and started looking for other stuff by Harold Faltermeyer. I found the theme he did for 'Fletch' and the 'Top Gun Anthem' (still three of my favorite pick-up tracks). Somewhere in there I had a friend who was a big Floyd fan, so I listened rather heavily to 'Meddle' and 'Dark Side of the Moon' for a while. My Dad started hearing Yanni on the radio (he always listed to the local easy-listening station) and we bought him 'Out of Silence' for Christmas. 'Out of Silence quickly became my favorite album. This is from the time when Yanni still put out powerful synth tour-de-forces. (I noticed that is was co-produced by Peter Baumann, but had no clue who he was.) The same year, one of my brother's girlfriends had gotten him started on Kitaro and Laurie Anderson. Laurie fit my wierd personality rather well, and Kitaro was really nice to sleep to. I started buying my own LPs and such around then, and started off buying Vangelis' 'Heaven and Hell'. What a shock compared to 'Chariots...' and 'Opera Sauvage'! But I was in love again. Next I bought 'Albedo 0.39' and heard my first heavily sequencer oriented album! This is still one of my top picks. I went looking for some more Yanni, but he only had 3 albums out at the time, and the first one (Optimystique) was already out of print. The guy at Camelot Music recommended 'River's Gonna Rise' by Patrick O'Hearn. I was a little disappointed, expecting Yanni's broad orchestral style, and getting O'Hearn's lighter, jazzy styles instead. However, it grew on me and I became a big O'Hearn fan as well. THEN I went away to college (1988) and was playing 'Albedo' in my dorm room during a card game. One of the guys says 'This reminds me of Tangerine Dream'. He proceeds to send me home for Christmas with 6 TD cassettes: Stratosfear Force Majeur Cyclone Tangram Rubycon Ricochet And I have been a RABID TD fan ever since... James Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32201 Re: Mike Oldfield & my intro to e-music and TD. Gustavo Jobim Thu 2/14/2002 6 KB From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:26 pm Subject: Sounscapes Concert Series Announcing a new concert series: S O U N D S C A P E S The Official Web Page for SOUNDSCAPES is http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes/ For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, Orbital Decay will appear in concert at the City of Bethlehem's IceHouse on Sand Island. Located in historic Bethlehem, the IceHouse is a wonderful venue for a concert of spacemusic. This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, starting at 8:00 pm. The doors will open at 7:30 pm and Chef Jeff will cater a free buffet dinner. Tickets at the door will be $10. A $2 discount will be given for students with ID card and for members of WMUH and WDIY who show their membership card. This is an all ages show. Advance tickets will be $8 (no discounts), available at the Compact Disc Center located at 1365 Easton Ave. near Linden St. in Bethlehem. Orbital Decay consists of electric guitarist Tim Richardson and synthesist Terry Furber of Quakertown, Pennsylvania. Originally founded in 1979, the year when Skylab's orbit decayed, causing a firey return to Earth, the band is influenced by the likes of Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze, and Pink Floyd. Terry and Tim create improvisational electronic space music with the energy of the fusion styles of the '70s. This means that Orbital Decay charts unexplored territory of sound and mood. Orbital Decay has three self-released CDR albums featuring their prolific studio jam sessions. These CDRs were featured on EMUSIC in December, 2001, as part of the Special Focus on Orbital Decay. On December 27th, Orbital Decay performed a live, in-studio concert during EMUSIC on WDIY. They also performed on WXPN's Star's End in Philadelphia last August. Listen to EMUSIC for more music from Orbital Decay. Directions to the IceHouse and information about the concert can be found at: http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/events.html For more information about Bethlehem, please visit http://www.bethtour.org/ For more information about the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton and vicinity), please visit http://www.lehighvalleypa.org/index.html Please forward this message to anyone who you think will be interested. Best regards, Bill billfox@f... http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic =============================================================================== Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. Thursdays at 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration. From: Jonathan Holt Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] How I started listening to TD First encounter with TD was at Bournemouth Record Library. I was 12 (definately the age at which music becomes something more than Saturday morning pop) and went grudgingly with my Mum on a Saturday morning. While browsing through the vinyl (this would be 1985) I saw the name Tangerine Dream. Nice name, I thought. The first album in line was Hyperborea - one of the tracks went to 20minutes!!! I had to investigate. Loved it. Next album I borrowed was Thief. That clinched it. Started purchasing albums after that... Jon. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 1:19 am Subject: Re: Mike Oldfield & my intro to e-music and TD. > My absolute favorite Oldfield was Tubular Bells for many years. Then I > heard 'Songs of Distant Earth' and all that changed(...) The Songs of Distant Earth is indeed a very well crafted piece; I agree it's a masterpiece, but it's a bit too smooth for me. Between TSODE and TB, I usually pick TB to listen. > On the subject of how you are introduced to music... That was some interesting reading! I like reading those kind of stories, so here's mine: Since I was little I always liked classical music. There was at home Mozart, Beethoven and such LPs, and also Carmina Burana, always a favourite. When my sister turned 3, in 1987 (I was nearly 5 years old), the party was filmed and the tape editor used Jarre's 'Souvenir of China' as opening and ending soundtrack; dad liked the music and bought his 'Concerts in China' vinyl, which cover was very impressive for me at my age. I remember I also was attracted to the music. I never was interested in any music except classical, I liked listening sometimes to radio stations that played this kind of music etc but never really looked for music. I had several accidental 'meetings' with Jarre's music, like one day in 94 when I found two MOD tracks of Magnetic Fields 1 and 4 which came with this MOD player, and in 95 when I saw 'Concert for Tolerance' on HBO. In the end of 98 I found a site with almost all Jarre albums in mp3, so I spent the school holidays downloading all that (some 450 MB), and I liked the music very much. So I decided to look for his albums, but only found them in months later april/99: almost all of them in the biggest CD store in Rio, which had all kinds of CDs from everywhere, and lots of Jarre CDs. I got Magnetic Fields (of course) and Zoolook (which was my favourite track in that MP3 collection). Shortly after I discovered the Jarre discussion lists (the international and later the Brazilian list), and began to hear strange names like 'Tangerine Dream'... So I went back to that store and discovered this HUGE amount of TD albums, and I thought 'My God! what should I listen to first?' I saw this double CD compilation that seemed interesting, called 'Analogue Space Years', full of interesting track names such as 'Alpha Centauri' (I always liked space stuff), 'Ziet' (argh), 'Origin of Supernatural Probabilities' (it was specially then that I realized, there was something in this TD for me). But I never really liked compilations, so, much fortunately!!, I got Oldfield's Tubular Bells, then a limited remastered edition (I like this collector stuff). Loved TB, but TD stayed in my mind. Some weeks later I found a good amount of TD CDs in this quite small store (only a room), so I asked the store owner to play 'Pergamon' for me, because the cover looked pretty and it only had 2 20+ minute tracks - I also like the sight of huge tracks, they are usually more interesting. So the Tangram piano theme was the first thing I heard, then there was the sequence in Quichotte 2... then I thought, 'this is really really nice, it sounds like the music I invent and hum when I'm walking in the streets!' But I finally bought my first CDs weeks later, in 28/8/1999 (I do keep the dates), Extracts from Poland (still haven't got around to getting the remastered more complete edition) and White Eagle, which had this bronzeish color that I found interesting, only to know the truth about it much later. I still remember that sunny saturday listening to this music radically different from anything I had heard before. And what got me definitively hooked on TD was Midnight in Tula (!!! :) Later, I found out about Klaus Schulze, Vangelis, Philip Glass, Agitation Free (which was a very pleasant surprise recently, when I heard their 'Second'), Änglagård, Laurie Anderson, Synergy, Solaris, Sibelius etc etc etc. GJ (with not really much work to do at the moment ;) which is happy, because In Blue has finally arrived after more than 1 month waiting! :)) From: 'albenson' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 6:30 pm Subject: Test Just a test... (my TD & Yahoo digest coming about one out of every three trying to reset per Joe's instructions). -- Al ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:21 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield I like Hergest Ridge very much! And... Guitars... 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ > Ommadawn is my fav ;-) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TheInfection [mailto:rubyconist@y...] > Sent: donderdag 14 februari 2002 8:06 > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield > > > I'm just wondering... how many of you listens to Mike > Oldfield's music? I know that few of you are familiar > with him. > > I found his music just recently when I bought Five > Miles Out. Then I bought his stuff from 70's and 90's. > I am pretty tolerant and I can very well listen the > original Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. My most > played albums currently are Ommadawn, Orchestral > Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. > > Toughts? Opinions? Anything? > > Regards, > TheInfection [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:05 pm Subject: [tree] the database I've taken down the static version of the Tangerine Tree participants' table until I can update it, to avoid confusion. there have been changes and additions that I haven't had time to update in the static version. they are accurate in the database version. in the meantime, use the yahoogroups database : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database thnaks, Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32205 Re: [tree] the database Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Thu 2/14/2002 3 KB 32206 Re: [tree] the database Joe Shoults Thu 2/14/2002 2 KB 32213 Re: [tree] the database armin_theissen Fri 2/15/2002 2 KB From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 8:55 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] the database But the yahoogroups database is unavailable now... 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Shoults [mailto:jshoults@f...] > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 10:05 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [tadream] [tree] the database > > > I've taken down the static version of the Tangerine Tree > participants' table > until I can update it, to avoid confusion. there have been > changes and > additions that I haven't had time to update in the static > version. they are > accurate in the database version. in the meantime, use the > yahoogroups > database : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database > > thnaks, > Joe > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 10:02 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] the database oops- thanks. It's public now. > -----Original Message----- > But the yahoogroups database is unavailable now... > > 'Jerry' From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:35 am Subject: TD with MO? Hi folks, about that TD with MO thing, I had contacted the oldfield list, but forgot to forward this to you; also, I wasn't receiving tadream mail, so.. anyway, Lars Tängmark from the Oldfield list said about that unknown track: >'I'd say it's mike on guitar, but I doubt that it's TD's electronics. Sounds >more like a MO home demo. Could be any era from 81-present. His demos are >rough sometimes. >It's a good piece of music actually!' so there you go. see ya GJ Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32208 Re: TD with MO? Antonio Nunes Fri 2/15/2002 3 KB 32209 Re: TD with MO? Mark Filipak Fri 2/15/2002 2 KB 32217 Re: TD with MO? Antonio Nunes Fri 2/15/2002 2 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:56 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD with MO? Gustavo Jobim wrote: > Hi folks, about that TD with MO thing, I had contacted the oldfield > list, but forgot to forward this to you; also, I wasn't receiving > tadream mail, so.. anyway, Lars Tängmark from the Oldfield list said > about that unknown track: > >>'I'd say it's mike on guitar, but I doubt that it's TD's electronics. Sounds >>more like a MO home demo. Could be any era from 81-present. His demos are >>rough sometimes. >>It's a good piece of music actually!' I know I also wrote that it sounded to me like Mike Oldfield, but now I'm not so sure. Today I was listening to the albums I have by GANDALF (only 2), and even if I didn't find that track, the style seems very close. So, I made a web-search by TD + MO + Gandalf, and look what I've found on Klaus Beschorner's site: 'The so-called NDR-Radio Session (Froese-Schnitzler-Oldfield) was a track by Gandalf' So, maybe this is the track. Klaus, if you have a recording of this so-called NDR-Radio Session, could you please compare it with the mp3 at http://www.tubular-world.com/download/#special Anyone here familiar with Gandalf music, perhaps could also identify that mp3? Antonio From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 1:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD with MO? Antonio Nunes wrote: > > I know I also wrote that it sounded to me like Mike Oldfield, but now > I'm not so sure. Today I was listening to the albums I have by GANDALF > (only 2), and even if I didn't find that track, the style seems very > close. So, I made a web-search by TD + MO + Gandalf, and look what I've > found on Klaus Beschorner's site: > > 'The so-called NDR-Radio Session (Froese-Schnitzler-Oldfield) was a > track by Gandalf' > > So, maybe this is the track. Klaus, if you have a recording of this > so-called NDR-Radio Session, could you please compare it with the mp3 at > http://www.tubular-world.com/download/#special Antonio. I went to the site above. Which one should I download? I'd like to hear this track. It was supposedly produced by E.Frose, right? Or am I totally lost in this thread? Ciao -- Mark From: Jeffrey Au Yeung Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 3:56 am Subject: [tadream] OT: Mike Oldfield Man In The Rain Maxi CD Just in case anybody is interested, I have a spare Maxi CD 'Man In The Rain' I can offer for trade. Jeffrey --- TheInfection wrote: > I'm just wondering... how many of you listens to > Mike > Oldfield's music? I know that few of you are > familiar > with him. > > I found his music just recently when I bought Five > Miles Out. Then I bought his stuff from 70's and > 90's. > I am pretty tolerant and I can very well listen the > original Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. My most > played albums currently are Ommadawn, Orchestral > Tubular Bells and Tubular Bells 3. > > Toughts? Opinions? Anything? > > Regards, > TheInfection > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com.hk address at http://mail.english.yahoo.com.hk From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:15 am Subject: RE: [tadream] OT-Mike Oldfield Yes! Oldfield is one of my all time favorites too. Tom's list below is a nice place to start, but... > Hergest Ridge > Ommadawn > Anorak I think he means Amarok...(isn't an anorak like an eskimo suit or something?) > Millennium Bell > Guitar > Tubular Bells 3 and also Incantations, which fits in nicely with Tubular Bells, Hergest and Omma. What about Crisis? What about QE2? What about Platinum? They all have great moments, though there are some songs that aren't as compelling there in the 80-90's period. > Some of his music features singers which (although > not my favorites) I still like. I dig Maggie Reilly's voice, bad. One of the few female singers I can get into... Craig From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002 4:19 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: bourbon st. atari party > > Typical 88 show, nice audience recording. > > This is the complete show, put to CD from the master > > by the taper (if I recall correctly). > > Actually the master tape has been lost through the years. This show was > transferred from a very clean and well preserved first gen. source. No > noise reduction or equalization was used. Now Kev, how would you know that? :-) From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:32 am Subject: Re: [tree] the database Thanks, Joe. My country of residence is, however, Ireland (meanwhile), not the UK. Conrad Gibbons was so kind in offering me to be a leave on his branch (oh god, how does this sound...) armin Armin dot Theissen at sun dot com --- In tadream@y..., Joe Shoults wrote: > I've taken down the static version of the Tangerine Tree participants' table > until I can update it, to avoid confusion. there have been changes and > additions that I haven't had time to update in the static version. they are > accurate in the database version. in the meantime, use the yahoogroups > database : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/database > > thnaks, > Joe From: TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:54 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Cincinnati Concert CANCELED >Martin >------ >Since some people are still trying to get their money back from the venues that sold tickets and were then cancelled, perhaps TDI should maintain a link to the explanation as to why the tour was first rescheduled and then cancelled. Some venues are putting out bogus information, for example, the TD had a fight with their label -- ridiculous since they own their own label. This bogus information is casting TD in a bad light. > *dear list, I will suggest to the list master to insert the info into the site again. The problem is that both the TDI and the TD-sites are pretty much in limbo at the moment, as they are awaiting a complete overhaul and combination of the two site within the next 4 weeks. But I think you are right that the info should still be present if there are still people who haven´t got their tickets returned. The truth behind the record company going bankrupt is actually that our US-distributor, Valley Media, went bankrupt after 9-11 - this meant that we lost out on the only way we could have compensated the the financial losses due to the high number of off-days that were still in the itinerary: by increased record sales. But the promotional benefits such a tour would have provoked would have been utterly futile if we did not have the product in the shops to supply the demand we would have created. Thus, even our 'last straw' to save the tour crumbled due to the demise of Valley. >Mike >---- >To the best of my knowledge the story is basically this: As you probably know, a U.S. tour was originally scheduled for the autumn. Then September 11 happened and at the last minute, a lot of tours were cancelled by a lot of performers. In the tumult, TDI decided to reschedule to Feb-Mar 2002. I'm sure you agree that the tour should have been delayed. > >Delaying the tour seemed fine at first, but the tour organizers here in the U.S. couldn't put together enough venues at enough halls to fill out the tour. So TDI decided to fill with smaller venues, like Bogart's -- I'm sure you'd have to agree that Bogart's is an awfully small venue for a band like TD -- and proceed with the tour anyway as it had been 10 years since they toured the U.S. But still, there was too much slack time between venues for the band to even break even financially -- staff has to be paid every day -- so the entire tour had to be cancelled. > (snip) *Mark - we couldn´t have described it better. I can only thank you highly for this detailed explanation. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Cincinnati Concert CANCELED Hi All. I think a bit of explanation may be in order. I began corresponding with Mike, the fellow who started this thread, as I'm also from Ohio and planned to attend the concert at Bogart's in Cincinnati. I directed him to the TDI site for an explanation only to be informed by him that he couldn't find it. So I paraphrased TDI's article and also sent a copy to Martin. Martin responded by posting to the list. So that's how it magically appeared as a reply, seemingly out of nowhere. Ciao -- Mark TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak wrote: > > >Martin > >------ > >Since some people are still trying to get their money back from the venues > that sold tickets and were then cancelled, perhaps TDI should maintain a > link to the explanation as to why the tour was first rescheduled and then > cancelled. Some venues are putting out bogus information, for example, the > TD had a fight with their label -- ridiculous since they own their own > label. This bogus information is casting TD in a bad light. > > > *dear list, > I will suggest to the list master to insert the info into the site again. > The problem is that both the TDI and the TD-sites are pretty much in limbo > at the moment, as they are awaiting a complete overhaul and combination of > the two site within the next 4 weeks. But I think you are right that the > info should still be present if there are still people who haven´t got > their tickets returned. The truth behind the record company going bankrupt > is actually that our US-distributor, Valley Media, went bankrupt after 9-11 > - this meant that we lost out on the only way we could have compensated the > the financial losses due to the high number of off-days that were still in > the itinerary: by increased record sales. But the promotional benefits such > a tour would have provoked would have been utterly futile if we did not > have the product in the shops to supply the demand we would have created. > Thus, even our 'last straw' to save the tour crumbled due to the demise of > Valley. > > >Mike > >---- > >To the best of my knowledge the story is basically this: As you probably > know, a U.S. tour was originally scheduled for the autumn. Then September > 11 happened and at the last minute, a lot of tours were cancelled by a lot > of performers. In the tumult, TDI decided to reschedule to Feb-Mar 2002. > I'm sure you agree that the tour should have been delayed. > > > >Delaying the tour seemed fine at first, but the tour organizers here in > the U.S. couldn't put together enough venues at enough halls to fill out > the tour. So TDI decided to fill with smaller venues, like Bogart's -- I'm > sure you'd have to agree that Bogart's is an awfully small venue for a band > like TD -- and proceed with the tour anyway as it had been 10 years since > they toured the U.S. But still, there was too much slack time between > venues for the band to even break even financially -- staff has to be paid > every day -- so the entire tour had to be cancelled. > > > (snip) > > *Mark - we couldn´t have described it better. I can only thank you highly > for this detailed explanation. > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: TheInfection Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:23 am Subject: RE: How I started listening to TD --- John Vertical wrote: > How many TD albums do you approximately get in a > year? Bootlegs, alternate > releases etc. do of course count. Last year I bought about 30 Tangerine Dream -albums including one bootleg. But of course that was my first TD-year. And it all started from Livemiles. All together I bought about 70 cd's and couple lp's. I know, I have a problem... Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail http://mail.yahoo.com From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:32 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD with MO? Mark Filipak wrote: > > Antonio. I went to the site above. Which one should I download? I'd like to hear this track. It was supposedly produced by E.Frose, right? Or am I totally lost in this thread? Apparently the track was removed from that site. Perhaps they also came to the conclusion that it had nothing to do with Mike Oldfield. Antonio From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT-Mike Oldfield On the Poland TD CD, I notice in the first piece similar patters to MO's Tubular Bells, toward the middle to end of TB. In fact some of the first piece has that flavor. I wonder if it is a mood? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'C. Chambers' To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 8:15 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] OT-Mike Oldfield > Yes! Oldfield is one of my all time favorites too. Tom's list below is a > nice place to start, but... > > > Hergest Ridge > > Ommadawn > > Anorak > > I think he means Amarok...(isn't an anorak like an eskimo suit or > something?) > > > > Millennium Bell > > Guitar > > Tubular Bells 3 > > and also Incantations, which fits in nicely with Tubular Bells, Hergest and > Omma. What about Crisis? What about QE2? What about Platinum? They all > have great moments, though there are some songs that aren't as compelling > there in the 80-90's period. > > > Some of his music features singers which (although > > not my favorites) I still like. > > I dig Maggie Reilly's voice, bad. One of the few female singers I can get > into... > > > Craig > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:36 pm Subject: [tree] database updated the participant's database is updated at yahoo.com The following assignments were made: Jim Moore redbook leaf assigned to Craig Chambers Sean Montgomery redbook leaf assigned to Éric Rochon Alan Miller redbook branch assigned to Neil Jellis Robert Kostecki redbook leaf has been assigned to Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Michael Surber is assigned to Daniel Hobrecht Daniel Hobrecht assigned to Michael Piersanti Thomas Bertilsson redbook leaf assigned to Gabe Yedid Blue Fungus redbook branch assigned to Vince LeGrand Larry J Abballe redbook leaf assigned to Craig Claerbaut Mark Mayhall Redbook branch assigned to Mark Filipak Alvaro Pachecol Redbook leaf assigned to Roger Roden Jens Kilian Redbook leaf assigned to Arne Richter Yannick Edom assigned to Hilary Wright Kent Eskildsen assigned to Michael Bonde From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:12 pm Subject: Re: TD with MO >So, maybe this is the track. Klaus, if you have a recording of this > so-called NDR-Radio Session, could you please compare it with the mp3 By now it should be perfectly clear that Mark regards me as a complete maniac ;-) Even suggesting that I might have kept copies of each and every mislabeled track/concert is highly offensive ! Suggesting that I'd even consider to compare any of them to the endless realms of mis-labeled shit on the net would have been enough to demand satisfaction only a few decades ago ! ;-) ;-) ;-) cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32222 Re: TD with MO Antonio Nunes Fri 2/15/2002 2 KB 32334 TD with MO Gustavo Jobim Sat 2/23/2002 2 KB From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:14 pm Subject: Re: TD and MO ...ooops, sorry, it was Antonio who wrote that bit, not Mark! but my comments still stand ;-) klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32224 Re: TD and MO Mark Filipak Fri 2/15/2002 2 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD with MO Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > Even suggesting that I might have kept copies of each and every > mislabeled track/concert is highly offensive ! It wasn't meant to be offensive. Quite the contrary, I only mentioned your name because I consider you a TD connoisseur. Sorry if I am wrong ;-) Antonio Nunes np: Gandalf - Journey to an imaginary Land From: tom george Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:30 pm Subject: OT Mike Oldfield Ha Ha Ha how right you are Craigo. I expected lots more ribbing for that. Anorak indeed! > Yes! Oldfield is one of my all time favorites too. > Tom's list below is a > nice place to start, but... > > > Hergest Ridge > > Ommadawn > > Anorak > > I think he means Amarok...(isn't an anorak like an > eskimo suit or > something?) > > > > Millennium Bell > > Guitar > > Tubular Bells 3 > > and also Incantations, which fits in nicely with > Tubular Bells, Hergest and > Omma. What about Crisis? What about QE2? What > about Platinum? They all / > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail http://mail.yahoo.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD and MO Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > ...ooops, sorry, it was Antonio who wrote that bit, not Mark! > > but my comments still stand ;-) And I hate sourkruat. -- Mark From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 5:12 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena A couple of years ago I had the great fortune of visiting a museum of natural history in Houston, Texas. As I wandered through the prehistoric section of dinosaurs and slabs of trees, I couldn't help but notice the music being played as background. My idea was that it was no where near as appropriate as would have been Fauni-Gena which I believe refers to animals-plants. 8-) Dell All IMO of course. >From: 'Marcel Engels' >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Fauni-Gena >Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 13:59:08 +0100 > >I always liked this title track. >For me it gives it a sort of pre-historic edge >to it and not only the title track does give it >that but also most certainly the music. >It's also nice to know that there are some quite >good sounding live recordings from that time. >I like those atmospheric passages even if there >is no sequencer in it. :-) > >Marcel >http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels >mengels@w... > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: cosmos1@w... Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 8:52 am Subject: ebay the last day of this rare items. edgar froese - ages cd http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1513413789 klaus kruger - collection cd http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1513420802 regards andre From: 'Daniel Hobrecht' Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:50 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1238 All together I bought about 70 cd's and couple lp's. I know, I have a problem... The only problem I see is that you may run out of money before you can buy enough TD stuff. . . Regards, DPH From: kassel24@h... Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:29 pm Subject: Rubycon SACD If anyone is thinking of buying the SACD Rubycon, don't bother at the moment ... unless you have a SACD player or intend to buy one shortly. The difference between the current Audio CD and SACD 'versions' when played back on 'standard' CD players is negligiable. And if you are interested I notice that Players are being developed for a one box solution that will playback MP3/DVD-A/DVD/SACD/CD/CD-DA/VCD/Super VCD/CVD all in one player aimed at the lower end of the mass-market...............now thats interesting? I will be getting mine when it comes out....... lets hope it is out soon? From: 'heineu' Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:21 pm Subject: Hi all, I have the first ASHRA Cd`s on the new MG.ART Label for sale!!! Ashra - @shra Vol. 1 Live in Japan 1997 (Re-Release on MG.ART 201)/ Euro 19 Ashra - @shra Vol. 2 Live in Japan 1997 (second part of the Tour) MG.ART 202 / Euro 19 and Ashra - The making of... (3CD box) MG.ART 203 (music from the Correlation Sessions) / Euro 40 All Cd`s are still sealed. I have many CD`s from each Release. All prices without shipping costs. If you interested in,please contact me off-list. For more information visit my HP: www.tribute-to-ashra.de Regards heiko also on ebay my new shop: HN.ARTShop www.ebayshops.de/hnartshop From: 'Vincent Goudreault' Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:39 pm Subject: Re: How I started listening to TD Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:23:34 -0800 (PST) From: TheInfection Subject: RE: How I started listening to TD --- John Vertical wrote: > How many TD albums do you approximately get in a > year? Bootlegs, alternate > releases etc. do of course count. Last year I bought about 30 Tangerine Dream -albums including one bootleg. But of course that was my first TD-year. And it all started from Livemiles. All together I bought about 70 cd's and couple lp's. I know, I have a problem... Regards, TheInfection ===== No, you have a problem when you'll have to STOP, having run out of things to buy. C.B.V.Goudreault on line since 1992, TD fan since 1977 First exposure: Stratosfear Fave albums: Ricochet & Rubycon Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32231 Re: How I started listening to TD Gustavo Jobim Sat 2/16/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 9:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: How I started listening to TD >No, you have a problem when you'll have to STOP, having >run out of things to buy. Then just starting buying Schulze.... Then J.S. Bach. You'll die before you buy all that. :) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: René Brenner Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:46 pm Subject: order from tdimusic.de Hi all Does anyone know if you can order other stuff than TD t-shirts directly from tdimusic.de website ? Like some regular CD's? Or is it better to buy them somehwere else. Thanks René Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32233 Re: order from tdimusic.de Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Sat 2/16/2002 3 KB 32235 Re: order from tdimusic.de René Brenner Sat 2/16/2002 2 KB 32237 Re: order from tdimusic.de Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Sun 2/17/2002 3 KB 32234 Re: order from tdimusic.de Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Med Sat 2/16/2002 2 KB 32248 Re: order from tdimusic.de LAFOOTE@a... Mon 2/18/2002 2 KB From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] order from tdimusic.de Have you tried this: http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/stimpackinfo.html ? 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ > -----Original Message----- > From: René Brenner [mailto:rebrenne@s...]On Behalf > Of René Brenner > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:47 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] order from tdimusic.de > > > Hi all > > Does anyone know if you can order other stuff than TD > t-shirts directly from > tdimusic.de website ? Like some regular CD's? Or is it better > to buy them > somehwere else. > > Thanks > René > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32235 Re: order from tdimusic.de René Brenner Sat 2/16/2002 2 KB 32237 Re: order from tdimusic.de Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Sun 2/17/2002 3 KB From: 'Glenn Folkvord - Hyperion Media' Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] order from tdimusic.de ----- Original Message ----- From: 'René Brenner' > Does anyone know if you can order other stuff than TD t-shirts directly from > tdimusic.de website ? Like some regular CD's? Or is it better to buy them > somehwere else. As a registered business, planning to set up some sort of mailorder shop, I was told I had to make a minimum order for 50 CDs for my first order, and also estimate how many CDs I would buy each quarter after that. And payment in advance. I have no idea what terms private persons that wants to buy a couple of CDs would get. Glenn From: René Brenner Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] order from tdimusic.de Hmm Looks like a secret link ;) René On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 00:33:04 +0100, Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz wrote: > Have you tried this: http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/stimpackinfo.html ? > > 'Jerry' Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32237 Re: order from tdimusic.de Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Sun 2/17/2002 3 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:49 am Subject: Some New TD Related Samplers Here are a few new TD related samplers I have come across in the last few weeks: NIGHT PASSAGES demixed (Dramtleitung Zwei) - Dorobo 011 from Australia - contains a 19:12 long track by Lustmord (which is Brian Williams & Paul Haslinger) This CD was actually released in 1996 SYNTHESIZER GREATEST Volume 5 - CND Music/Arcade 22 204342 from Germany, 2001 - conatins 'One for the Books' by Froese/Haslinger and played by STAR, INC. ORB - AUNTIE AUBREY'S EXCURSIONS BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY Part 2 - Deviant/Ultra Records UL 1093-2, 2001 - contains TD's 'Towards the Evening Star (Mandarin Cream Mix)' Now a quick off-topic about EBAY. I lost an auction for the CD by DEUTER 'SILENCE IS THE ANSWER'. After a few days EBAY sends me a 'sorry you lost message' with alternatives that their seach engine found. One item that was identified was '11 NAKED MEN 1 HEADLESS...'. How in the heck did this match the CD I was bidding on? - I haven't the foggiest idea ;-))) Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32239 Re: Some New TD Related Samplers odean@m... Sun 2/17/2002 2 KB 32241 Re: Some New TD Related Samplers quarlie@a... Sun 2/17/2002 2 KB From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 6:47 am Subject: RE: [tadream] order from tdimusic.de Not exactly. Do the following: 1. Go to the http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html 2. From the left side menu choose Merchandise 3. Go to the bottom of the right side frame 4. Just click on the StimPack 5 link That's all! cheers 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ > -----Original Message----- > From: René Brenner [mailto:rebrenne@s...]On Behalf > Of René Brenner > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:58 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] order from tdimusic.de > > > Hmm > Looks like a secret link ;) > > René > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 00:33:04 +0100, Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz wrote: > > Have you tried this: > http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/stimpackinfo.html ? > > > > 'Jerry' > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 10:27 am Subject: Mick Tucker-RIP I have just sadly read that the ex-Sweet Drummer Mick Tucker has died, aged 54. I know he might mean nothing to a lot of non-Brit's, or any under30's, but the Sweet were one of my favourite bands as a teenager, and Mick is the second member to die. RIP Sorry to post off topic. Kevin. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32240 Re: Mick Tucker-RIP Jonathan Holt Sun 2/17/2002 2 KB From: odean@m... Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 3:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Some New TD Related Samplers At 12:49 AM 2/17/02 -0500, you wrote: >Now a quick off-topic about EBAY. I lost an auction for the CD by DEUTER >'SILENCE IS THE ANSWER'. ) >Vic Hi Vic, I have this CD (and many others) as I'm a fan of Deuter. Don't let Edgar know that you're buying music other than TD? ;-) Oscar http://www.TheVirtualBiz.com/ From: Jonathan Holt Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Mick Tucker-RIP Thanks for the notification. Ballroom Blitz is a classic song; the Sweet were one of the great bands of their time. --- Kevin Robert Ball wrote: > I have just sadly read that the ex-Sweet Drummer > Mick Tucker has died, aged > 54. > > I know he might mean nothing to a lot of non-Brit's, > or any under30's, but > the Sweet were one of my favourite bands as a > teenager, and Mick is the > second member to die. > > RIP > > Sorry to post off topic. > > Kevin. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: quarlie@a... Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 6:50 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Some New TD Related Samplers In a message dated 2/17/02 12:53:18 AM, tangerinedream@a... writes: >NIGHT PASSAGES demixed (Dramtleitung Zwei) - Dorobo 011 from Australia >- contains a 19:12 long track by Lustmord (which is Brian Williams & Paul >Haslinger) >This CD was actually released in 1996 This is correct, but just FYI, Haslinger isn't always involved with Lustmord. Most of the time it's just Brian Williams. So don't go rushing out to buy all the Lustmord albums you can find just for the sake of completism. ;) A review of 'Night Passage demixed' can be found here: http://archive.awrc.com/v/night_passage_demixed.html --Daniel NP: Dream Theater - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence From: Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 7:01 pm Subject: sale list !!!! Hi all, I have an list with many Klaus Schulze items for sale. If you interested in let me know, I will send you the list in Word Format or on normal email. Regards heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de www.opticaldream.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 9:09 pm Subject: KS 'Jubilee Edition' on Ebay ends 6:45PM GMT, next Sunday I hate to have to sell this, but I need the money. I've never sold on ebay, so a friend of mine with a proven track record and excellent rating is doing it for me. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515807482 The auction ends next Sunday at 10:45AM Pacific U.S. time, 1:45PM Eastern U.S. time, 6:45PM GMT, 7:45PM in Germany. I do have the 'Ultimate Edition' so that softens the blow. Ciao -- Mark From: tangram12@a... Date: Sun Feb 17, 2002 9:26 pm Subject: vinyl on ebay hi i have just listed all my vinyl TD records on ebay as i need to make a bit of room. just search under seller duncan41 thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 9:09 pm Subject: TD anagrams So I wasn't really doing anything important at work, I went to this anagram page, http://ag.arrak.fi/index_en.html , and I put 'tangerine dream' to see what I would get. Some interesting things, check them out: meandering rate gendarmerie ant gendarme retina maitre endanger tamarind greene dementia garner dreamer antigen argentine dream dreaming neater germania tender arrangement die germane trained tangram needier amen intergrade armed tangerine dm iran teenager the full list (lots and lots of them) is at http://cgi.arrak.fi/cgi-bin/agserv2.pl?sourcetext=tangerine+dream&lang=Engli sh&lines=500&maxword=2&outlang=en . now this is a small list of anagrams in German: http://cgi.arrak.fi/cgi-bin/agserv2.pl?sourcetext=tangerine+dream&lang=Germa n&lines=500&maxword=2&outlang=en with things like 'mandarine gerte'. hmm. now that wasn't really so constructive was it? :) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32246 Re: TD anagrams TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Mon 2/18/2002 2 KB 32253 Re: TD anagrams PENFOLD Mon 2/18/2002 2 KB 32247 Re: TD anagrams Heiko Heerssen Mon 2/18/2002 3 KB 32254 Re: TD anagrams Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Mon 2/18/2002 2 KB 32256 Re: TD anagrams Steve Mon 2/18/2002 3 KB 32261 Re: TD anagrams mars103nl Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB 32249 Re: TD anagrams Administrator for kay-net.com Mon 2/18/2002 3 KB From: TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 2:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD anagrams >with things like 'mandarine gerte'. hmm. > >now that wasn't really so constructive was it? :) > >----------------------------------------------------_- No, it wasn´t, but I enjoyed it immensely, nonetheless ;-) My favorite is 'armed tangerine'! This reminds me of the Monty Python-sketch where a self-defense-instructor tells his pupils to attack him with fresh fruit. Now that would have been an appropriate name for the tree, eh?! ;-) Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32253 Re: TD anagrams PENFOLD Mon 2/18/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 2:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD anagrams > My favorite is 'armed tangerine'! This reminds me of the Monty > Python-sketch where a self-defense-instructor tells his pupils to attack > him with fresh fruit. LOL. I still remember that day when my brother and I went to the cinema, watching three Monty Python movies in a row (Life of Brian, ..and now for something completely different, Meaning of life). After 15 minutes into 'Life of Brian' we could barely breath anymore because we laughed so hard, and the rest of the audience looked at us as if we were mad. > Now that would have been an appropriate name for the tree, eh?! ;-) But 'arrangement die' would have been much more approriate ;-) Regards Heiko P.S.: I haven't heard any feedback from the tree participants yet..did the 'Tangerine Tree' left you speechless, or is the majority of you still waiting for the arrival of the CDRs :-) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32254 Re: TD anagrams Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Mon 2/18/2002 2 KB 32256 Re: TD anagrams Steve Mon 2/18/2002 3 KB 32261 Re: TD anagrams mars103nl Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB From: LAFOOTE@a... Date: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:19 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] order from tdimusic.de Rene, I just placed an order last Wednesday for the I-Box set and got a confirmation the same day. The only problem is that it takes at least 7 days or so for the Credit Card to clear their system. Otherwise they are apparently still up and running so go ahead and order something. http://www.tdi-music-mall.de/mainmenu.html Electric Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD anagrams I am convince the Rutles have the CDR's. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Heiko Heerssen' To: Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 6:56 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] TD anagrams > > > > My favorite is 'armed tangerine'! This reminds me of the Monty > > Python-sketch where a self-defense-instructor tells his pupils to attack > > him with fresh fruit. > > LOL. I still remember that day when my brother and I went to the cinema, > watching three Monty Python movies in a row (Life of Brian, ..and now for > something completely different, Meaning of life). After 15 minutes into 'Life > of Brian' we could barely breath anymore because we laughed so hard, and the > rest of the audience looked at us as if we were mad. > > > Now that would have been an appropriate name for the tree, eh?! ;-) > > But 'arrangement die' would have been much more approriate ;-) > > Regards > Heiko > > P.S.: I haven't heard any feedback from the tree participants yet..did the > 'Tangerine Tree' left you speechless, or is the majority of you still waiting > for the arrival of the CDRs :-) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Scott' Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Re: TD Related Samplers >Now a quick off-topic about EBAY. I lost an auction for the CD by DEUTER >'SILENCE IS THE ANSWER'. After a few days EBAY sends me a 'sorry you lost >message' with alternatives that their seach engine found. One item that was >identified was '11 NAKED MEN 1 HEADLESS...'. How in the heck did this match >the CD I was bidding on? - I haven't the foggiest idea ;-))) Isn't that Deuter's latest album? :-D Scott From: PENFOLD Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 7:22 pm Subject: OT:My 'Coaster' Garden! Ever wondered what to do with all the bad run-off CD-R & CD-RW and the *%$%$&!!!!! AOL CD's you get as junk mail? Well I found an artistic application for the thousands of Coasters I've liberated from various retail establishments. Watch the Coasters Grow at: http://www.anet.net/~penfold/coastergarden.html You should visit this every so often to check on the growth progress of my Coaster Garden. If you want to send your unwanted coasters my way, feel free to email me OFF-LIST to make arrangements PENFOLD the PROPANE mailto:penfold@a... The Difference between Men and Boys is the Dangerousness of their Toys! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32257 Re: OT:My 'Coaster' Garden! Mark Filipak Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB From: 'dreamstogo' Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:00 pm Subject: Tangerine Tree - first impressions Hi Everyone, I've just finished copying the disks for my leaves over the weekend, so I haven't got round to listening to any of the music until this evening. I know, I know! So... I've put on the last volume, Berlin 1976. First impressions, the quality is excellent, treble is crisp and bass, well bass and not muffled. Mid range is clear. There are no pops, crackles etc. Well done to the re-engineers and Heiko for a great effort! Thank you for sharing your work - the whole effort is a master peice of professionalism! One question, why have you split the Bernau concert into 13 segments? Best wishes Hilary PS I'll send the copies to my leaves by the end of this week. From: PENFOLD Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 7:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD anagrams At 02.02.18-15:39, TDI MUSIC- Martin Kasprzak wrote: >No, it wasn´t, but I enjoyed it immensely, nonetheless ;-) > >My favorite is 'armed tangerine'! This reminds me of the Monty >Python-sketch where a self-defense-instructor tells his pupils to attack >him with fresh fruit. What about Pointed Sticks? Shut UP! Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:16 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] TD anagrams > P.S.: I haven't heard any feedback from the tree participants > yet..did the > 'Tangerine Tree' left you speechless, or is the majority of > you still waiting > for the arrival of the CDRs :-) I still can't contact my branch supplier... 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:30 pm Subject: [tree] AWOL branch i'll handle this offlist. but if anyone is having any difficulty contacting their branchline, please let me know asap. we don't want people dangling for long! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz [mailto:Jerry@t...] > > P.S.: I haven't heard any feedback from the tree participants > > yet..did the > > 'Tangerine Tree' left you speechless, or is the majority of > > you still waiting > > for the arrival of the CDRs :-) > > I still can't contact my branch supplier... From: 'Steve' Date: Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] TD anagrams Heiko said: > P.S.: I haven't heard any feedback from the tree participants yet..did the > 'Tangerine Tree' left you speechless, or is the majority of you > still waiting for the arrival of the CDRs :-) My week started with the arrival of the CDRs, the worst migraine I've had in twenty years and a dose of the flu (or whatever else the current bug that's going around is - all I know is it's nasty!). All week I've had very little ability to concentrate so I've been dipping into the CDRs rather than listening to them a concert at a time. Of these concerts it's only Bernau and Bilbao that I don't know from downloaded mp3s - the sound quality on the 'known' concerts is such that it's like I'm hearing them for the first time. I haven't listened properly to Bilbao yet, but Bernau really surprised me. It's got that 'sit up and listen' quality that's been missing (for me) from TD's music for quite some years... I'd been planning on getting the media to start writing for my leaves yesterday, but that got interrupted when our youngest dog (Chakotay, 11 months, rescued at 6 months from an abusive home) lost his battle with his demons and we had to have him put to sleep. Rubycon has done an awful lot of work for me over the past 36 hours... Steve www.craftman.co.uk www.rottievision.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 4:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] OT:My 'Coaster' Garden! PENFOLD wrote: > > Watch the Coasters Grow at: http://www.anet.net/~penfold/coastergarden.html That's bril, Pete. Warning to other list members: This is just a cleavor plot by Pete to get you to read his rant. ;-) Ciao -- Mark From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 4:09 am Subject: Fw: review - Orbital Decay at Soundscapes This is a forward of a review from the beyond_em@yahoogroups.com list. --Bill -----Original Message----- From: Greg Waltzer To: beyond_em@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 18, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: [beyond_em] review - Orbital Decay at Soundscapes >It's not often that I get to hear electronic music performed in the classical Berlin school >style, here in the Eastern part of the US. So I was pleased and encouraged to see Bill Fox begin >his ambitious Soundscapes series, providing a venue for this kind of music. This is a watershed >event, and hopefully will be a catalyst for the development of an electronic music community in >this area. > >Orbital Decay (Terry Furber and Tim Richardson of Quakertown, PA) performed at the Ice House in >Bethlehem, PA on Saturday February 16. Tickets were $10, a real bargain considering that a full >buffet was provided (by Chef Jeff) before the show and during the break. The Ice House is a >unique historic building which provided an excellent acoustic space. > >I didn't want to set my expectations too high, knowing that this was a debut for both Soundscapes >and for Orbital Decay. But I couldn't have been more impressed with the music and the venue, >overall an excellent experience! > >Orbital Decay played two sets and an encore, a total of a little less (I think) than 2 hours of >music. I'm no expert at identifying genres of electronic music, but this seemed Berlin school to >me, with spacey effects and analog-style sequences. The balance was about right between the >spacey parts and the more upbeat sequences, and the sound was quite full for two musicians. The >sequences and leads were catchy, and there was plenty of movement in the background parts to keep >things from sounding repetitive. Terry Furber did a great job on synths, playing sound effects, >drones, sequences and some sizzling leads. Tim Richardson proved that electric guitar can work >well in this style of music. He played sound effects, patterns that fit with the sequences, and >leads. My friend James, who is a real keyboard partisan, said this is the kind of guitar he likes >to hear! For the encore they cranked up the tempo a bit and displayed some keyboard and guitar >wizardry, playing some riffs in unison, which was even more impressive when Terry confided >afterwards that had not been planned. > >Kudos to Bill Fox for bringing this together. I sincerely hope this is just the beginning of a >successful endeavor to continue bringing live electronic music to the Lehigh Valley. > >Greg Waltzer From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:54 am Subject: [tree] Worker bees: please identify yourselves Hi The following worker bee did artwork: Marko Marin The following worker bees did mastering: Jabberwock Danish Dynamite TENTBUCKUM Federico Please contact me off list. Confidentiality is guaranteed. Thanks -- Mark From: Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:59 am Subject: Ashra Shop is open !!! Hi, today I open my little ASHRA Shop, here you found the most available CD`s and VHS from ASHRA include the new Releases. I hope I see you soon on my Shop. www.tribute-to-ashra.de click on the SHOP Button. Regards heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:51 am Subject: Re: TD anagrams --- In tadream@y..., Heiko Heerssen wrote: > P.S.: I haven't heard any feedback from the tree participants yet..did the > 'Tangerine Tree' left you speechless, or is the majority of you still waiting > for the arrival of the CDRs :-) I got the CDrs last Friday and haven't even been able to listen to them. I have been busy copying them for my leaves and am ready. They will be send within a day or 2 (so Joe/Herbert, expect them somewhere next week). When finished converting them to audio-CDs I'm sure they will sound good on my new big home theatre set. :-) Grtz Marcel From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 9:30 am Subject: Re: [tree] SHN subtree is ready to lauch --- In tadream@y..., 'michael_berling' wrote: > > Disc 1 - Volume 1 (Nottingham) - 510 MB > Disc 2 - Volume 2 & 3 (Sheffield & Bernau) - 690 MB > Disc 3 - Volume 4 (Washington) - 641 MB > Disc 4 - Volume 5 (Frankfurt) - 218 MB (sic!) > Disc 5 - Volume 6 (Bilbao) - 651 MB > Disc 6 - Volume 7 & 8 (Croydon & Berlin) - 576 MB > > Thus you will need at least two blank 700 MB CDs; the rest can be 650 > MB discs. Not really an important reply but just wanted to let you know. I was able, without overburning, to put Disc 5 on a regular 650MB (which actually is 653.xxxxxxx Bytes). So I needed just one 700MB CDR. Finishing recording today. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:01 am Subject: Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? Yahoo! Groups is considering lowering the service level of the free groups and shifting full service to a fee-based, Premium service level. I don't think it is feasible for this list to operate as a fee-based service. You can enter your opinion here: http://promo2.yahoo.com/sbin/Groups/survey.cgi It is not as many pages as indicated on the first page of the survey. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32264 Re: Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? mars103nl Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB 32267 Re: Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? PENFOLD Tue 2/19/2002 3 KB 32268 Re: Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? Hulshoff, Bert Tue 2/19/2002 4 KB 32277 Re: Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? Owens, James Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:17 am Subject: Re: Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? --- In tadream@y..., Mark Filipak wrote: > Yahoo! Groups is considering lowering the service level of the free groups and shifting full service to a fee-based, Premium service level. I don't think it is feasible for this list to operate as a fee- based service. You can enter your opinion here: > > http://promo2.yahoo.com/sbin/Groups/survey.cgi Ah so it's goodbye Yahoo then. The ads were already annoying so I'm not complaining to leave. It was a good place though. Marcel From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 11:03 am Subject: Replacement 'Das Wagner Desaster' I've just received another copy of KS's 'Das Wagner Desaster' from SMD and the end of 'Nietzsche' now plays without any trouble whatsoever on my Marantz and (especially) my portable Sony players so it's now clear that the first set I received was from a faulty batch, presumably a result of a flaw in remastering. The dynamic range seems wider on the first disc of this set as well -- almost uncomfortably so at times. I'm beginning to think that, overall, this might be Klaus's finest recording. There's almost a touch of madness about it at times. It's compelling listening from beginning to end. From: 'Daniel Hobrecht' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 12:37 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1241 P.S.: I haven't heard any feedback from the tree participants yet..did the > 'Tangerine Tree' left you speechless, or is the majority of you still waiting > for the arrival of the CDRs :-) I for one and still waiting for the CDRs, I have contacted my 2 leafs with ideas on what blanks we should use. And will mail as soon as the 'masters' arrive. Waiting with breathless anticipation. :)) Regards, DPH From: PENFOLD Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 1:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? At 02.02.19-05:01, Mark Filipak wrote: >Yahoo! Groups is considering lowering the service level of the free groups >and shifting full service to a fee-based, Premium service level. I don't >think it is feasible for this list to operate as a fee-based service. You >can enter your opinion here: > >http://promo2.yahoo.com/sbin/Groups/survey.cgi We could migrate the list to Topica, I'm subbed to a number of lists there and a few have way more traffic Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman Watch the Coasters Grow at: http://www.anet.net/~penfold/coastergarden.html From: 'Hulshoff, Bert' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:55 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? Why this talking about leaving yahoo, there will be an free version yahoo is not sinking ( yet) Bert -----Original Message----- From: PENFOLD [mailto:penfold@a...] Sent: dinsdag 19 februari 2002 14:59 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Cc: tangerinedream@yahoogroups.com; goblinsclub@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? At 02.02.19-05:01, Mark Filipak wrote: >Yahoo! Groups is considering lowering the service level of the free groups >and shifting full service to a fee-based, Premium service level. I don't >think it is feasible for this list to operate as a fee-based service. You >can enter your opinion here: > >http://promo2.yahoo.com/sbin/Groups/survey.cgi We could migrate the list to Topica, I'm subbed to a number of lists there and a few have way more traffic Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman Watch the Coasters Grow at: http://www.anet.net/~penfold/coastergarden.html ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:40 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tree Reviews AAAARGH! I had been writing a review for two hours, and then an accidental hit of the delete key erased it all! &%#*! Yep, I already got my copy of the set. Great music! Here are anyway some (much shorter than what I had earlier written) summaries of the disks: Vol. 1 & 6: Quite average. Slow melodies, feels very whole. Rhytm-vise well structured. Vol. 2: Very experimental, like Zeit but not as dark. Almost completely devoid of rhytm and melody. Vol. 3: Choral stuff and the vocals have the main role. Relaxing and symphonic. Not much rhytm either. Vol. 4: Has the official Monolight version and some similar but longer and smoother compositions. The encores are great - especially the funny arpeggios of Rain in Spain. Vol. 5: Not much new; intro of Horizon, 2nd quarter of Logos, 2nd half of Poland. Some extra noodlings. Vol. 7: Psychotic. Track 2 has most of Ricochet Part 2 but with much more intense rhytm, additional guitar and longer piano intro. The 'main theme' and the strange middle interlude are absent. Vol. 8: Original version of Soundmill Navigator. Intro and outro are much shorter. Somewhat ascetic when compared to the album version. John Vertical PS: I'll be gone in the Netherlands until Monday... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:54 pm Subject: WOW I went to take the survey and they asked 'how many messages are stored in your groups' message archive?' I added them up (there are totals for each month available) and came up with over 32000! (a lot of these were brought over from the UWP list) GOOD JOB PEOPLE! James > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > > http://promo2.yahoo.com/sbin/Groups/survey.cgi From: René Brenner Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: Wavelength / Firestarter Does anyone know where the Soundtrack Wavelength and Firestarter is available? Its label is Varese Sarabande. Thanks Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32272 AW: [tadream] Wavelength / Firestarter H. Tue 2/19/2002 3 KB From: 'H.' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:26 pm Subject: AW: [tadream] Wavelength / Firestarter firestarter (according to the online catalog) is available at cue records (http://www.cue-records.de/) and groove (http://www.groove.nl/). i found no link to wavelength. Herbert -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: Rene Brenner [mailto:rebrenne@s...]Im Auftrag von Rene Brenner Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Februar 2002 18:51 An: tadream@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [tadream] Wavelength / Firestarter Does anyone know where the Soundtrack Wavelength and Firestarter is available? Its label is Varese Sarabande. Thanks ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:09 pm Subject: OT: RE: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? Bert's right. No need to get excited just yet. This announcement is not news to me. It's only been a matter of 'when?', not 'if'. Free web services do not always remain free, and we've had a good free ride here at onelist/egroups/yahoogroups. I've done my research and considered migrating a couple of times already but have never had a compelling reason...yet. While topica is the strongest migration destination candidate so far, we also have other options, but first we'll see how this yahoogroups thing pans out. For example, I already established a topica presence as a contingency way back in September of 2000. I have never mentioned it here because it wasn't necessary, but if and when the time comes to migrate, I already have a house to move into, so to speak. I perform and archive regular backups of the subscriber roster, so porting it over will be seamless to you folks; the minimal impact on subscribers will involve things like changing your e-mail filters from 'yahoogroups' to 'topica'. The main consideration is our huge library of messages, as James pointed out. I'm on this, too; a friend is writing a script for me that will 'mine' the remote yahoogorups database and store all messages into a local db. If it works, then we are 'have archive will travel'. But again, no need for worry or anything yet. Don't worry - I'll keep everyone informed. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Hulshoff, Bert [mailto:bert.hulshoff@d...] > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:55 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? > > > Why this talking about leaving yahoo, there will be an free version > yahoo is not sinking ( yet) > > Bert Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32279 Re: OT: RE: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Ya PENFOLD Tue 2/19/2002 3 KB From: Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:00 pm Subject: rare Klaus Schulze items on ebay Hi all, I have two rare Klaus Schulze items on ebay: Klaus Schulze - 3 rare sheet Music booklets http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515647047 Klaus Schulze - The Works http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515647886 or look under: http://www.ebayshops.de/hnartshop Regards heiko www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: OT: Saturn Occultation Not quite TD related, but I thought you US east-coasters might like the effect. (and you could listen to TD while you watch...) > -----Original Message----- > Tomorrow night, if it's clear, will be a spectacular (and very > rare) occultation of Saturn, when the first quarter Moon will > eclipse > Saturn. The effect, through binoculars or a small telescope, > will be to > see the rings and then the planet itself gobbled up by the > mountains and > canyons of the Moon. It'll also show some of the mountains at the > eclipse point in spectacular silhouette. > > The eclipse-occultation will occur at 5:55 p.m. on Wednesday in Ames. > It'll begin before sunset west of the Missouri River and will > end before > sunset (totally invisible) before sunset west of the Colorado > River. The > most spectacular view will be on the East Coast. It also won't be > visible north of a line running from Fargo to Salt Lake City to Santa > Barbara. > For more information, see http://skyandtelescope.com/observing/objects/occultations/article_297_1.asp A map can be found at http://skyandtelescope.com/mm_images/2496.gif Times on the map are given in Greenwich time, which is 6 hours ahead of CST. From: tangram12@a... Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: new email hi i am in the process of changing ISP's as i am fed up with AOL. my new email address is:- tangram@t... or you can use tangram@t... please make changes in your address book thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32280 Re: new email Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 2/19/2002 3 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:17 pm Subject: RE: RE: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? I for one would like to applaud you for your foresight on this! Thanks Joe, for keeping the list alive and kicking! James > -----Original Message----- > For example, I already established a topica presence as a > contingency way back in September of 2000. From: 'tei waz' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:31 pm Subject: re: Rubycon SACD >The difference between the current Audio CD and SACD 'versions' when played back on 'standard' CD players is negligiable.< hmm, so what you are saying is what exactly? the audio cd layer is a) the same as the existing sbm version? b) not from the one-bit stream that was used for the SACD? c) similar to the original virgin (non-sbm) CD issue? I was under the impression that the bilayer disc used 2001 remasters--implying for both the audio and SA CD.... Can someone shed light on this? --T (DVD and SACD players-challenged) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: PENFOLD Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:18 pm Subject: Re: OT: RE: [tadream] Yahoo! to charge fee for Yahoo! Groups? At 02.02.19-14:09, Joe Shoults wrote: > This announcement is not news to me. It's only been a matter of > 'when?', not 'if'. Free web services do not always remain free, and > we've had a good free ride here at onelist/egroups/yahoogroups. I've > done my research and considered migrating a couple of times already but > have never had a compelling reason...yet. While topica is the strongest > migration destination candidate so far, we also have other options, but > first we'll see how this yahoogroups thing pans out. > >For example, I already established a topica presence as a contingency way >back in September of 2000. I have never mentioned it here because it >wasn't necessary, but if and when the time comes to migrate, I already >have a house to move into, so to speak. I perform and archive regular >backups of the subscriber roster, so porting it over will be seamless to >you folks; the minimal impact on subscribers will involve things like >changing your e-mail filters from 'yahoogroups' to 'topica'. I'm subbed to over 10 lists on Topica, one of which generates *way* more traffic and has 36K+ of archived posts dating back to at least 1997 I belive. If the Gigsville Village ML can support the traffic we toss at it, the TD list should be no problem. Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman Watch the Coasters Grow at: http://www.anet.net/~penfold/coastergarden.html From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] new email smart move Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:11 PM Subject: [tadream] new email > hi > i am in the process of changing ISP's as i am fed up with AOL. > > my new email address is:- > tangram@t... > or you can use > tangram@t... > > please make changes in your address book > > > thanks > > Duncan McKee > > tangram@t... > > www.tadream.co.uk > > ICQ 41739379 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'duncan mckee' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:40 pm Subject: test just a test to see if my email is working yet Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'duncan mckee' Date: Tue Feb 19, 2002 11:33 pm Subject: test just a test to see if my new email is working on the groups. Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 11:22 am Subject: Edgar Froese covers wanted Hi guys, I just myself a brand spanking new printer, and now I want to print off some decent covers (and CD labels) for the following: Epsilon in Malaysian Pale Macula Transfer Kamikaze 1989 This has probably cropped up here endless times before, but can anyone point me in the right direction? Regards Roger Hartopp -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32287 Re: Edgar Froese covers wanted Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Wed 2/20/2002 3 KB 32294 Re: Edgar Froese covers wanted John Marchington Thu 2/21/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 6:53 pm Subject: OT Glitch In Blue Hi folks, Does anyone here have KS's In Blue, ZYX 90001-2 ? There's this small glitch at 46:52 in CD1, I wonder if anyone else also has this or it's only in my copy. it's great album btw. see ya GJ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32285 Re: OT Glitch In Blue Phil White Wed 2/20/2002 2 KB 32286 Re: OT Glitch In Blue Gustavo Jobim Wed 2/20/2002 2 KB 32288 Re: OT Glitch In Blue Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz Wed 2/20/2002 3 KB 32290 Re: OT Glitch In Blue Bill Fox Wed 2/20/2002 3 KB 32291 Re: OT Glitch In Blue Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 2/20/2002 4 KB 32295 Re: OT Glitch In Blue John Marchington Thu 2/21/2002 3 KB 32297 OT Glitch In Blue John Marchington Thu 2/21/2002 2 KB 32298 Re: OT Glitch In Blue Admin Thu 2/21/2002 3 KB From: 'Phil White' Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 12:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue Hi GJ, I've just re-listened to this CD and yes it's on my copy too and sounds like a very tiny burst of static.... hadn't noticed it before but I've no doubt I always will now :o( Doesn't detract from an excellent album though !! I'm not sure critique at this level is what listening to music is all about though ? Discuss...... ATB Phil Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32286 Re: OT Glitch In Blue Gustavo Jobim Wed 2/20/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:15 pm Subject: Re: OT Glitch In Blue > Hi GJ, > I've just re-listened to this CD and yes it's on my copy too and > sounds like a very tiny burst of static.... hadn't noticed it before > but I've no doubt I always will now :o( I'm sorry about that! At least now I know my copy isn't bad. > I'm not sure critique at this level is what listening to music is all > about though ? Discuss...... I don't think I can say what listening to music is about. But for me it's one of the best things to do. From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 8:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Edgar Froese covers wanted I can supply the complete artwork for Epsilon and partial one for Kamikaze 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Hartopp [mailto:gmroger@p...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:22 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Edgar Froese covers wanted > > > Hi guys, > > I just myself a brand spanking new printer, and now I want to > print off some decent covers (and CD labels) for the following: > > Epsilon in Malaysian Pale > Macula Transfer > Kamikaze 1989 > > This has probably cropped up here endless times before, but > can anyone point me in the right direction? > > Regards > Roger Hartopp > > -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za > Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From: 'Jaroslaw Wiktorowicz' Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 8:18 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue I will have a copy soon... 'Jerry' mailto:Jerry@t... Visit my website at: http://www.tangerinedream.pl/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustavo Jobim [mailto:gustavojobim@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:54 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue > > > Hi folks, > Does anyone here have KS's In Blue, ZYX 90001-2 ? There's > this small glitch > at 46:52 in CD1, I wonder if anyone else also has this or > it's only in my > copy. > it's great album btw. > see ya > GJ > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > From: Tom Richmond Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:02 pm Subject: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Tree Structure Thought this would be out sooner, sorry. Branches please note that an alternate version of the DTS track is available at the Olyam website. Verify with your leaves which version they need. Branches and leaves please contact each other! The only problems we had last time were due to lack of communication. Thanks and enjoy the music! Europe: Fred Yargui - fredericyargui@w... Marion Horrod - horrod6@n... Ray Hallett - kassel24@h... Steve Yensen - Stephen.Yensen@s... Neil Jellis - NJellis@c... Andrew Prime - andrew@a... Daniel Fishman - Daniel.Fishman@l... Roger Hartopp - gmroger@p... Duncan McKee - Tangram12@a... Mikael Runsten - micke.stark@g... Hilary Wright - Hilary.Wright@N... Simon Pride - spride@c... Olle Rundgren - Olle.Rundgren@s... Steve Jenkins - steve@l... Jerome Olivier - jerome.olivier4@w... Conrad Gibbons - Conrad.Gibbons@l... Grant Somerville - grant.somerville@v... Sean McEvoy - hawkmoor2000@y... Paul Fellows - pfellows@c... Jerome Salyers - ssaalyersjj@y... Nicola Cont - Nicola@c... Kostas Karlis - koulos@s... Antonio Nunes - np97fa@m... USA, etc. Tom Richmond (trichmond@b...) Mike Surber (msurber@m...) Mike Daniels (daniels@l...) Jeff Stevenson (greymane@k...) Thomas Bertilsson (thomasbertilsson@h...) Mike Fox (mfox@i...) Craig Claerbaut (craigc@s...) Deb Johnson (dhj4@y...) John McIntyre (mcintyre@p...) John Gentile (jmg_piano_man@y...) Tim Lemon (timl@g...) James Owens (James.E.Owens@m...) Rich Maggio (maggior@m...) Greg Waltzer (gwaltzer@o...) Dell Outland (outlanda60@h...) Dan Eberly (DanEberly@a...) Craig Chambers (craig.chambers@m...) Vic Rek (tangerinedream@a...) Roger Smith (rogersmith3@h...) Neal Frost (strat95@B...) Dan Downey (djambient@y...) Steven Feldman (scfeldman@j...) Oscar Dean (stuntman@m...) Mark Filipak (filipak@e...) Steve Whiteley (steve.whiteley@s...) Dan Jones (dxkim@y...) Ken Beal (kwb10@c...) Joe Shoults (jshoults@f...) Frank Arellano (farellano@s...) Pete Isaacson (penfold@a...) Dave Brewer (deibu@i...) Alan Benson (albenson@n...) Thomas Barkhurst (teiwazbarana@h...) John Poer (jmpoer@i...) Dale Kay (admin@k...) Rogelio Cavazos (tranceroy@y...) Paul Ellis (Synthhtnys@a...) Colin Anderson (roganjosho@o...) John Field (roganjosho@o...) John Marchington (johnm@p...) Gustavo Jobim (gustavojobim@n...) Tom George (eloy_usa@y...) Note: Your source is the first person above you in the column left of you. For example: Tom Richmond (me) is the source for: Mike Surber James Owens Steve Whiteley Colin Anderson Tom George If there are any questions, please contact me and I'll do my best to clear them up. Fred and I already have our source copies, so branches should see their copies shortly. Artwork is available via the tadream website. Cheers! Tom ___________________________ IMPORTANT NOTICE: This message is intended only for the addressee. If you receive this message in error, please delete the material from your computer and notify the sender by email. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, or distribute this message or its contents to any other person and any such actions may be unlawful Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32510 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Tree Structure Dave Brewer Mon 3/4/2002 2 KB 32512 Re: Dreamwatchers' Tales II Tree Structure Dave Brewer Mon 3/4/2002 3 KB From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue -----Original Message----- From: Phil White >I'm not sure critique at this level is what listening to music is all >about though ? Discuss...... The glitch you mentioned has nothing to do with the music but is tied to the listening experience because we hear it. It won't ruin a good composition. But for some, it could, however minisculey, affect one's enjoyment of the experience. And for those of us who fancy ourselves recording engineers, how well something is recorded is important, at least on some levels. Cheers, Bill billfox@f... http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic =============================================================================== Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. Thursdays at 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration. Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!] SOUNDSCAPES Concert Series: http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 9:25 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue it is a copyright glitch similar to adding a fake town misspelled town name on a map. :-) Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Bill Fox' To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil White > >I'm not sure critique at this level is what listening to music is all > >about though ? Discuss...... > > The glitch you mentioned has nothing to do with the music but is tied to the > listening experience because we hear it. It won't ruin a good composition. But > for some, it could, however minisculey, affect one's enjoyment of the > experience. And for those of us who fancy ourselves recording engineers, how > well something is recorded is important, at least on some levels. > > Cheers, > > Bill billfox@f... http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic > ============================================================================ === > Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. Thursdays at > 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and > Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration. > Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org > Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox > To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!] > SOUNDSCAPES Concert Series: http://www.tadream.net/soundscapes > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Feb 20, 2002 10:42 pm Subject: [tree] I'm only tracking DOWNtrades, not UP. FYI: to avoid any confusion... Definitions: DOWNtrade = passing Tangerine Tree music CDs DOWN the branchline to your leaves or subordinate branches UPtrade = whatever you send UP the branchline to your branch in compensation for the DOWNtrade that they send you. I created a 'Trade Status' field in the database for tracking trades. This field is ONLY for recording DOWNtrade status to ensure and record proper progress of the CDs _DOWN_ the tree hierarchy. Attempting to record UPtrades would be too chaotic, irrelevant and time-consuming, not to mention paternal. :) Thanks, Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32307 Re: [tree] I'm only tracking DOWNtrades, not UP. Joe Shoults Thu 2/21/2002 5 KB 32308 Re: [tree] I'm only tracking DOWNtrades, not UP. j.gordon Thu 2/21/2002 5 KB From: kassel24@h... Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 6:55 am Subject: Rubycon SACD More..................... 'As pointed out SACD and the Audio CD layer are quite different from each other.... I pointed out that if anyone is getting the SACD version, hoping for a better conventional Audio CD quality, this is not a improvement over the current audio standard version. However if you play back the SACD version on a SACD player you will derive approx 60% better sound quality over the normal CD.' >The difference between the current Audio CD and SACD 'versions' when played back on 'standard' CD players is negligible.< 'hmm, so what you are saying is what exactly? the audio cd layer is a) the same as the existing sbm version? b) not from the one-bit stream that was used for the SACD? c) similar to the original virgin (non-sbm) CD issue? I was under the impression that the bilayer disc used 2001 remasters--implying for both the audio and SA CD.... Can someone shed light on this? --T (DVD and SACD players-challenged)' From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 2:30 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Edgar Froese covers wanted Hi Roger, I did a search and came up with this URL that shows a list of websites specialising in CD covers. I found the top one works well (I was looking for Klaus Schulze's 'Cyborg') but there is a bit of a knack in actually getting to the stage where the artwork appears. If you have difficulty, get back to me off line and I'll give you a step-by-step list of instructions. Here's the URL I spoke of :- http://directory.google.com/Top/Arts/Music/Collecting/Compact_Disc/Cover_Ima ges/ ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Roger Hartopp' To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:22 AM Subject: [tadream] Edgar Froese covers wanted > Hi guys, > > I just myself a brand spanking new printer, and now I want to print off some decent covers (and CD labels) for the following: > > Epsilon in Malaysian Pale > Macula Transfer > Kamikaze 1989 > > This has probably cropped up here endless times before, but can anyone point me in the right direction? > > Regards > Roger Hartopp > > > > -- > > Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! > [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 2:57 am Subject: Re: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue Hi Gustavo, I got my copy of 'In Blue' at the same time as 'Das Wagner Desaster' and, while I had a similar glitch problem with 'DWD' (also on ZYX), I don't recall a problem with 'In Blue', but I'll play it again to be sure and let you know one way or the other. I agree it's a great album. I now have an excellent copy of 'DWD' by the way. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Gustavo Jobim' To: Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:53 AM Subject: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue > Hi folks, > Does anyone here have KS's In Blue, ZYX 90001-2 ? There's this small glitch > at 46:52 in CD1, I wonder if anyone else also has this or it's only in my > copy. > it's great album btw. > see ya > GJ > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 3:43 am Subject: 'Legend' Please forgive me if this has been discussed already. I found an excellent site: http://www.figmentfly.com/legend/index.shtml In addition to having just about everything you'd ever want to know about all the various versions of 'Legend', it has this note: 'Rumored LEGEND Ultimate Edition DVD release date on May 21st, 2002.' I wonder if it will have the Jerry Goldsmith score (probably) or TD's score. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32301 Re: 'Legend' tangram12 Thu 2/21/2002 2 KB 32304 Re: 'Legend' deibu@i... Thu 2/21/2002 3 KB 32305 Re: 'Legend' Owens, James Thu 2/21/2002 3 KB 32306 Re: 'Legend' Owens, James Thu 2/21/2002 2 KB 32309 Re: 'Legend' tangram12 Thu 2/21/2002 2 KB 32310 Re: 'Legend' Owens, James Thu 2/21/2002 3 KB 32312 Re: 'Legend' Mark Filipak Fri 2/22/2002 2 KB From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 3:48 am Subject: OT Glitch In Blue Gustavo, I've just listened to it and, yes, there is a sort of 'splashy' noise in the right channel for about a second or so at the time you mentioned (46:52) in track 1, disc 1. I must admit I hadn't noticed it before. I haven't mentioned this before but there is a quite loud click early on the right hand channel in the 'Nietzsche' track in 'Das Wagner'. I noticed in on the faulty copy that I originally had and returned and it's present on the replacement copy too. At least this new disc plays OK so I'm not really bothered about those sorts of incidentals. From: 'Admin' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 4:30 am Subject: Re: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue Ahh but I still hate all of you who have heard these disks. Anomalies or not, these must be great. I hope your ears burn... :-) in a nice way of course... ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Marchington' To: Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:48 PM Subject: [tadream] OT Glitch In Blue > Gustavo, I've just listened to it and, yes, there is a sort of 'splashy' > noise in the right channel for about a second or so at the time you > mentioned (46:52) in track 1, disc 1. I must admit I hadn't noticed it > before. I haven't mentioned this before but there is a quite loud click > early on the right hand channel in the 'Nietzsche' track in 'Das Wagner'. I > noticed in on the faulty copy that I originally had and returned and it's > present on the replacement copy too. At least this new disc plays OK so I'm > not really bothered about those sorts of incidentals. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 5:26 am Subject: Calling all Australians Calling all Australians. Please contact me off list. I have a TD project in mind that you can help with. Thanks -- Mark From: Paul Fellows Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 10:50 am Subject: new e-mail Sorry about this post to the list, it's just in case Duncan's old e-mail doesn't work any more... Hi Duncan, Changing computers at the moment, and your message giving your new e-mail address got lost. Could you post it to the list again? Cheers Paul From: 'tangram12' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 11:36 am Subject: Re: 'Legend' here is some info i found on the legend dvd release http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R1&title=88464 http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=99549 only the US release is marked as having the TD soundtrack Duncan --- In tadream@y..., Mark Filipak wrote: > Please forgive me if this has been discussed already. > > I found an excellent site: > > http://www.figmentfly.com/legend/index.shtml > > In addition to having just about everything you'd ever want to know about all the various versions of 'Legend', it has this note: > > 'Rumored LEGEND Ultimate Edition DVD release date on May 21st, 2002.' > > I wonder if it will have the Jerry Goldsmith score (probably) or TD's score. > > Ciao -- Mark From: 'duncan mckee' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 11:38 am Subject: legend again hi i forgot to mention this special feature includes The Fairy Dance, Music And Storyboards Depicting The Lost Scene i hope there is new music in this scene :-) Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 1:04 pm Subject: New homepage Hello I wasn't too pleased with all these banner ads & pop-up windows on my old Tripod/Lycos homepage and decided to create a new one (still 'under construction', but almost done ;-) My new TD homepage URL is: http://www.tangerinedreamer.de This is a domain which automatically points you to the 'real' URL (http://www.beepworld3.de/members22/tadreamer/) Regards Heiko P.S.: the old homepage (http://members.tripod.de/Network23/TD.html) will soon be closed, but will show a link to the new URL. From: Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 1:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Legend' Mark Said: > Please forgive me if this has been discussed already. > > I found an excellent site: > > http://www.figmentfly.com/legend/index.shtml > > In addition to having just about everything you'd ever want to know > about all the various versions of 'Legend', it has this note: > > 'Rumored LEGEND Ultimate Edition DVD release date on May 21st, 2002.' > > I wonder if it will have the Jerry Goldsmith score (probably) or TD's > score. > Yes, this is an excellent site with tons of info on the movie (including scenes that were cut out). But there's a whole section comparing the two soundtracks, TD's music is bashed through most of the article. The first news a couple of years back about the new DVD set was the first time I seriously considered buying a DVD player. This set is supposed to have the original US cut (with TD's music), plus a longer cut with many restored scenes (the film should make more sense now) and Goldsmith's soundtrack. I don't think they could have used TD's music for that cut, since I think they scored to the shorter version. I think there's a DVD coming out in the UK next month (mentioned on that site, probably) with the original UK cut only. Dave B. (lurking again...) From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 3:52 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] 'Legend' As I recall, the 'rumored' DVD was supposed to contain both releases of the film in 16:9 aspect ratio (and possibly in 4:3 pan & scan). This would be really nice, since the average 'Euro' hasn't seen the version with the TD score, and the average American (me included) hasn't seen the version with the Goldsmith score. Of course this is only rumor, so it's likely taken on everyone's fantasy about the perfect version of the movie. I'm sure it will contain at least 30 minutes of perviously unreleased footage too ;-). (That's a wink up there at the end of that last line. Some people on the list obviously have no idea that when a wink appears, it means that someone is only making an attempt at humor, and the preceding statement has no bearing on the true feelings of the speaker...) James > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > > Please forgive me if this has been discussed already. > 'Rumored LEGEND Ultimate Edition DVD release date on May > 21st, 2002.' > > I wonder if it will have the Jerry Goldsmith score (probably) > or TD's score. From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 4:02 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: 'Legend' Looks like you chaps overseas are getting the shaft again... The European release looks like it's the same as the video, so I'd guess it has no TD score... Oh well, at least they don't region encode CDs (yet...) James > -----Original Message----- > From: tangram12 [mailto:tangram@t...] > > here is some info i found on the legend dvd release > http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R1&title=88464 > http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=99549 > > only the US release is marked as having the TD soundtrack Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32309 Re: 'Legend' tangram12 Thu 2/21/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 4:26 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] I'm only tracking DOWNtrades, not UP. Thanks Jerome. In this case, all I would record is that YOU have received YOUR disks. No information has changed for your leaves as far as the database is concerned. In other words, I'm only recording the fact that people RECEIVE their disks. It is easy to do a sort in the database by Trade Status to see who all has received their disk, and if they haven't, then you can just look at who their supplier is to see where the stoppages are. A few people have e-mailed me letting me know that the disks are on the way to their leaves, and this is nice to let me know, but I'll only update the database with 'disks received' updates. And sorry I wasn't clear; only the moderators - me, Mark, Joel, Scott - can edit the table. The ONLY reason for this is that there is no security in the database function at yahoogroups. If I could bind the database to our subscribers roster, meaning I could restrict your ability to edit the table to just your own record, then we would really have something there. But the way it is, it is too risky to open it up, as anyone can alter or just delete the whole table if they wanted. BUT- you can look at the entire database in a flat text file, which you can import into Excel. This is really easy even if you don't know your database from a hole in the ground: just open this text file in Excel, and select 'comma delimited' when it prompts you: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files/tree022102.txt To sort by a particular column in Excel, just select ONE cell in a column and click the little button in the toolbar that has 'A-Z' and an arrow in it. Joe np: Shpongle: Divine Moments of Truth > -----Original Message----- > From: j.gordon [mailto:ssaalyersjj@y...] > hey, joe... > i couldn't seem to be able to edit my trade status... hmmm... > > but, i've burned for one leaf and am awaiting address and shipping > instructions... > > the other leaf and i can make an in-person trade, but he is > busy and wants to > wait until the end of march for the trade... =8^O > > so... > > ciao! > jerome > > > > --- Joe Shoults wrote: > > FYI: to avoid any confusion... > > > > Definitions: > > DOWNtrade = passing Tangerine Tree music CDs DOWN the > > branchline to your leaves or subordinate > > branches > > > > UPtrade = whatever you send UP the branchline to your > > branch in compensation for the DOWNtrade > > that they send you. > > > > I created a 'Trade Status' field in the database for > tracking trades. This > > field is ONLY for recording DOWNtrade status to ensure and > record proper > > progress of the CDs _DOWN_ the tree hierarchy. Attempting > to record > > UPtrades would be too chaotic, irrelevant and > time-consuming, not to mention > > paternal. :) > > > > Thanks, > > Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32308 Re: [tree] I'm only tracking DOWNtrades, not UP. j.gordon Thu 2/21/2002 5 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 4:13 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] I'm only tracking DOWNtrades, not UP. thanks, joe jerome --- Joe Shoults wrote: > Thanks Jerome. In this case, all I would record is that YOU have received > YOUR disks. No information has changed for your leaves as far as the > database is concerned. In other words, I'm only recording the fact that > people RECEIVE their disks. It is easy to do a sort in the database by > Trade Status to see who all has received their disk, and if they haven't, > then you can just look at who their supplier is to see where the stoppages > are. > > A few people have e-mailed me letting me know that the disks are on the way > to their leaves, and this is nice to let me know, but I'll only update the > database with 'disks received' updates. > > And sorry I wasn't clear; only the moderators - me, Mark, Joel, Scott - can > edit the table. The ONLY reason for this is that there is no security in > the database function at yahoogroups. If I could bind the database to our > subscribers roster, meaning I could restrict your ability to edit the table > to just your own record, then we would really have something there. But the > way it is, it is too risky to open it up, as anyone can alter or just delete > the whole table if they wanted. > > BUT- you can look at the entire database in a flat text file, which you can > import into Excel. This is really easy even if you don't know your database > from a hole in the ground: just open this text file in Excel, and select > 'comma delimited' when it prompts you: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files/tree022102.txt > > To sort by a particular column in Excel, just select ONE cell in a column > and click the little button in the toolbar that has 'A-Z' and an arrow in > it. > > Joe > > np: Shpongle: Divine Moments of Truth > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: j.gordon [mailto:ssaalyersjj@y...] > > hey, joe... > > i couldn't seem to be able to edit my trade status... hmmm... > > > > but, i've burned for one leaf and am awaiting address and shipping > > instructions... > > > > the other leaf and i can make an in-person trade, but he is > > busy and wants to > > wait until the end of march for the trade... =8^O > > > > so... > > > > ciao! > > jerome > > > > > > > > --- Joe Shoults wrote: > > > FYI: to avoid any confusion... > > > > > > Definitions: > > > DOWNtrade = passing Tangerine Tree music CDs DOWN the > > > branchline to your leaves or subordinate > > > branches > > > > > > UPtrade = whatever you send UP the branchline to your > > > branch in compensation for the DOWNtrade > > > that they send you. > > > > > > I created a 'Trade Status' field in the database for > > tracking trades. This > > > field is ONLY for recording DOWNtrade status to ensure and > > record proper > > > progress of the CDs _DOWN_ the tree hierarchy. Attempting > > to record > > > UPtrades would be too chaotic, irrelevant and > > time-consuming, not to mention > > > paternal. :) > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: 'tangram12' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:03 pm Subject: Re: 'Legend' not if you have a multi region dvd player :-) Duncan --- In tadream@y..., 'Owens, James' wrote: > Looks like you chaps overseas are getting the shaft again... > The European release looks like it's the same as the video, > so I'd guess it has no TD score... > > Oh well, at least they don't region encode CDs (yet...) > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tangram12 [mailto:tangram@t...] > > > > here is some info i found on the legend dvd release > > http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R1&title=88464 > > http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=99549 > > > > only the US release is marked as having the TD soundtrack From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 8:04 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: 'Legend' But how much extra did you have to pay to get one? I think the whole region coding thing is pretty crappy. > -----Original Message----- > From: tangram12 [mailto:tangram@t...] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 2:03 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: 'Legend' > > > not if you have a multi region dvd player :-) > > Duncan > > --- In tadream@y..., 'Owens, James' wrote: > > Looks like you chaps overseas are getting the shaft again... > > The European release looks like it's the same as the video, > > so I'd guess it has no TD score... > > > > Oh well, at least they don't region encode CDs (yet...) > > > > James > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tangram12 [mailto:tangram@t...] > > > > > > here is some info i found on the legend dvd release > > > http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R1&title=88464 > > > http://www.play.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=99549 > > > > > > only the US release is marked as having the TD soundtrack > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Felna Greymane Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 11:28 pm Subject: Legend DVD This has been 'rumored' for over a year now....they keep pushing back the release date. I am expecting the TD score (seems I read something about the proposed version on a website about it a few months back). >Please forgive me if this has been discussed already. > >I found an excellent site: > > http://www.figmentfly.com/legend/index.shtml > >In addition to having just about everything you'd ever want to know about all the various versions of 'Legend', it has this note: > > 'Rumored LEGEND Ultimate Edition DVD release date on May 21st, 2002.' > >I wonder if it will have the Jerry Goldsmith score (probably) or TD's score. > >Ciao -- Mark Jeff Stevenson greymane@k... Greymane on Kali - #24670 *** ICQ #312642 (also in #TADREAM in IRC) I HIGHLY recommend these programs! From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 1:01 am Subject: Re: [tadream] 'Legend' 'Owens, James' wrote: > > As I recall, the 'rumored' DVD was supposed to contain both > releases of the film in 16:9 aspect ratio (and possibly in > 4:3 pan & scan). This would be really nice, since the average > 'Euro' hasn't seen the version with the TD score, and the average > American (me included) hasn't seen the version with the Goldsmith > score. I also have read that the deluxe edition will have two sides: the US version with TD score on one side and the Euro version with Goldsmith score on the other side. I certainly hope this is true. I've not heard the Goldsmith score though of course, I'm familiar with his work. I've read that the Goldsmith score for 'Legend' is a masterwork. Ciao -- Mark From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 12:47 am Subject: guitars in Ricochet Hi folks, I've wondered more than once... who is the drummer in Ricochet? or is that electronic? Doesn't sound electronic to me... Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32314 Re: guitars in Ricochet KMJ Fri 2/22/2002 2 KB 32316 Re: guitars in Ricochet Kevin Keller Fri 2/22/2002 2 KB 32321 Re: guitars in Ricochet Wade Gordon Fri 2/22/2002 2 KB 32322 Re: guitars in Ricochet Wade Gordon Fri 2/22/2002 3 KB From: KMJ Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 1:57 am Subject: Re: guitars in Ricochet > I've wondered more than once... who is the drummer in Ricochet? or is that electronic? Doesn't sound electronic to me... Studio overdubs on acoustic drums by Chris. Kevin From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 3:18 am Subject: KS 'Jubilee Edition' on Ebay ends Sunday, 6:45PM GMT This will probably be the only thing I ever sell on ebay. You all know me and that I'm not an 'entrepreur', so please don't flame me for posting this. I simply need the money and a lot of people who may want this simply don't see things the first time they are posted -- as amply shown by 'Tangerine Tree' late comers. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515807482 The auction ends Sunday. The current bid price is $122.50, a terrific bargain. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32317 Re: KS 'Jubilee Edition' on Ebay ends Sunday, 6:4 C. Chambers Fri 2/22/2002 3 KB 32318 Re: KS 'Jubilee Edition' on Ebay ends Sunday, 6:4 Robert Grabowsky Fri 2/22/2002 3 KB From: Kevin Keller Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: guitars in Ricochet KMJ wrote: > > I've wondered more than once... who is the drummer in Ricochet? or is that > electronic? Doesn't sound electronic to me... > > Studio overdubs on acoustic drums by Chris. Really?? I had never heard that it was studio overdub. Where did you find that out? -- Kevin Keller Composer and Producer - Classical Space Music E-mail: kkproductions@e... **** Kevin Keller Trio Live at Morrison Planetarium, Golden Gate Park, SF Sunday, March 24 at 8 PM Advance tickets now on sale at http://www.kevinkeller.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:23 am Subject: RE: [tadream] KS 'Jubilee Edition' on Ebay ends Sunday, 6:45PM GMT Damn Mark...I may buy it at tha price just to hang onto it. Even though I have another copy. It would easily go for twice that if the economy wasn't in the dumps. People are just tight right now. I will have to keep my eye on it though...may be worth more in the future. Craig > This will probably be the only thing I ever sell on ebay. You all > know me and that I'm not an 'entrepreur', so please don't flame > me for posting this. I simply need the money and a lot of people > who may want this simply don't see things the first time they are > posted -- as amply shown by 'Tangerine Tree' late comers. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515807482 > > The auction ends Sunday. The current bid price is $122.50, a > terrific bargain. > > Ciao -- Mark From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:40 am Subject: RE: [tadream] KS 'Jubilee Edition' on Ebay ends Sunday, 6:45PM GMT I think you folks are missing something here. That $122.00 price is not any good because Mark has set a reserve price. The Reserve price has not been met so noone gets anything right now. Hope this helps, Robert At 11:23 PM 2/21/02 -0500, you wrote: >Damn Mark...I may buy it at tha price just to hang onto it. Even though I >have another copy. > >It would easily go for twice that if the economy wasn't in the dumps. >People are just tight right now. > >I will have to keep my eye on it though...may be worth more in the future. > >Craig > > >> This will probably be the only thing I ever sell on ebay. You all >> know me and that I'm not an 'entrepreur', so please don't flame >> me for posting this. I simply need the money and a lot of people >> who may want this simply don't see things the first time they are >> posted -- as amply shown by 'Tangerine Tree' late comers. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515807482 >> >> The auction ends Sunday. The current bid price is $122.50, a >> terrific bargain. >> >> Ciao -- Mark > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Are you on the tree yet? Go to >http://www.tadream.net/tree > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 3:55 pm Subject: Chicken This site: http://www.messygourmet.com/creations/issue3.html has a chicken recipe named... (you guessed it!) 'Tangerine Dream'. It looks like it could be modified to use Eggplant instead, so Edgar could eat it. Chow -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32320 Re: Chicken Joe Shoults Fri 2/22/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:29 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Chicken I like the graphic they used http://www.messygourmet.com/img/tangerinedream.jpg > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:56 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Chicken > > > This site: > > http://www.messygourmet.com/creations/issue3.html > > has a chicken recipe named... (you guessed it!) 'Tangerine Dream'. > > It looks like it could be modified to use Eggplant instead, > so Edgar could eat it. > > Chow -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Wade Gordon Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] guitars in Ricochet No, its the real McCoy all right. Wade --- Gustavo Jobim wrote: > Hi folks, > I've wondered more than once... who is the drummer > in Ricochet? or is that electronic? Doesn't sound > electronic to me... > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32322 Re: guitars in Ricochet Wade Gordon Fri 2/22/2002 3 KB From: Wade Gordon Date: Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] guitars in Ricochet Did you guys know that the official realease of 'Music from the 21th Century' is coming soon from GNP Crecendo Records? Wade --- Wade Gordon wrote: > No, its the real McCoy all right. > > Wade > --- Gustavo Jobim > wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I've wondered more than once... who is the drummer > > in Ricochet? or is that electronic? Doesn't sound > > electronic to me... > > Gustavo Jobim > > gustavojobim@n... > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: > > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 1:54 am Subject: Brazil. Cyclone SBM Hello collectors out there... I don't know if I've said this before; I have a Brazilian copy of Cyclone SBM, and I'd be willing to trade it. If anyone is interested you can contact me. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32324 Re: Brazil. Cyclone SBM René Brenner Sat 2/23/2002 3 KB 32325 Re: Brazil. Cyclone SBM Greg Sat 2/23/2002 3 KB 32326 Re: Brazil. Cyclone SBM Mark Filipak Sat 2/23/2002 2 KB From: René Brenner Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 8:36 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Brazil. Cyclone SBM A general thing... what's up with those SBM remastered versions from Virgin? Is there a any big improvement when you compare the sound of an older CD with a remastered one? I already thought about replacing my older TD Collection from Virgin with the remastered versions. On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 22:54:10 -0300, Gustavo Jobim wrote: > Hello collectors out there... > > I don't know if I've said this before; I have a Brazilian copy of Cyclone SBM, and I'd be willing to trade it. If anyone is interested you can contact me. > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Greg' Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 9:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Brazil. Cyclone SBM Although there is many opinions regarding the SBM versions of TDs older output, but I find albums like Encore much more appealing to listen to than the originals. In fact I purchased the original Virgin Encore CD, and I disliked it so much that I returned it, about 6 months later, I acquired that album again from a person who was helping me locate TD albums, but this time it was the SBM version. I put it on and was awestruck, I immediately fell in love with it. But even on Encore, there is some terrible distortion, particularly on the piano solo parts when it hits the high range. It's rather funny, though, because it sounds so classical.. so much like you are hearing a vintage 19th century piano recording. I would almost not want to hear a perfect version of it.. Today, there is a bunch of electric gizmos and filters to make audio sound tinny and old.. I find it pretty humorous! Greg H. NP: DJ Tiesto - Urban Train (just to play with that high pass filter :) ----- Original Message ----- From: 'René Brenner' > A general thing... what's up with those SBM remastered versions from Virgin? > Is there a any big improvement when you compare the sound of an older CD with > a remastered one? I already thought about replacing my older TD Collection > from Virgin with the remastered versions. From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 9:22 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Brazil. Cyclone SBM René Brenner wrote: > > A general thing... what's up with those SBM remastered versions from Virgin? > Is there a any big improvement when you compare the sound of an older CD with > a remastered one? I already thought about replacing my older TD Collection > from Virgin with the remastered versions. At this point, you might as well skip a generation and wait for all the SACDs to hit the market. The SBMs are better, but not the quantum leap that SACDs are. Ciao -- Mark From: 'hyperboreauk' Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 9:48 am Subject: TDI The Keep Hi get in quick for this bargain on E bay only 9hours to go and only going for $382 or £266 LOL there must be plenty of wealthy TD fans out there. Cheers Gary. From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 11:34 am Subject: Legend DVD Just to make it clear, the American double disc DVD of Legend has been COMPLETE since September 2000, much to the chagrin of Legend and Tangerine Dream fans alike. I have found mostly negative reaction to the TD score when talking to people have seen either the US version or both. The first disc will be the American cut of the film, with the Tangerine Dream score. The second disc will be the never-before-seen Director's Cut which is the UK version + even more footage and probably edited more tightly, all with Jerry Goldsmith's score. Both discs will be packed with features. This will indeed be an ultimate edition. To date, nobody has come out and said for sure just what copyright issue held up the release and I have not heard anyone mention missing features. Usually, someone from the releasing DVD studio will leak the information and so the public knows exactly what clip was removed and why. -Morgan From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 11:39 am Subject: Round 29 of SBM conversation Is there a Logos SBM? The original CD has a bit of tape hiss, but it cannot easily be removed because there is treble up there too. Maybe a variable tape hiss cut is in order. -Morgan P.S. I've been listening to Logos a LOT lately for no particular reason. *wink* Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32331 Re: Round 29 of SBM conversation Jim Moore Sat 2/23/2002 3 KB 32335 Re: Round 29 of SBM conversation Nick Adams Sat 2/23/2002 2 KB 32336 Re: Round 29 of SBM conversation Wade Gordon Sat 2/23/2002 2 KB From: Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 12:45 pm Subject: last 21 hours Hi all, the last 21 hours of my ebay auctions with rare Klaus Schulze items. Klaus Schulze - 3 rare sheet Music booklets http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515647047 Klaus Schulze - The Works http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1515647886 or look under: http://www.ebayshops.de/hnartshop Regards heiko ebay: heineu www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 3:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Round 29 of SBM conversation From what I remember, the only SBM versions released by Virgin in the U.S. were Encore, White Eagle, Logos, and Hyberborea (as they were never available in the first CD run domestically as were the other Virgin albums). Caroline released the Tangram SBM later in the U.S. I could only find the other SMB versions when I went to Canada or as imports in smaller stores. - jim -----Original Message----- From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 6:40 AM To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] Round 29 of SBM conversation Is there a Logos SBM? The original CD has a bit of tape hiss, but it cannot easily be removed because there is treble up there too. Maybe a variable tape hiss cut is in order. -Morgan P.S. I've been listening to Logos a LOT lately for no particular reason. *wink* ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'richter_arne' Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 3:18 pm Subject: Re: The Missing Part of 'Moorland' is on the WAVELENGTH OST --- In tadream@y..., scfeldman@j... wrote: > On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:59:02 -0000 'richter_arne' > writes: > > >[. . .] Basically, the 'missing' part from the Moorland (7') > >exists on the Soundtrack of 'Wavelength'. > > Which track? Sorry for the very very late reply on this one, but I only have this on vinyl and had to get my turntable going again. The track is 'Alley Walk'. To be pricise, the first 2:02 minutes, as the track then crossfades into something totally different. I suppose that Alley Walk (Part 1) and Moorland are different excerpts from one and the same (longer) track. This track consists of 3 stages, starting with Alley Walk (the slow repeating 3 marimba-like notes), then adding only the lead voice (the sharp flute-like sound that can be heard 'solo' only in the first few seconds of Moorland, but in the Tatort version was much longer) and finally adding the sequencer part to that lead voice (not actually used in the Tatort movie, only on the 7' released version of Moorland, maye this part was even added on later) So, this particular track was used to score 3 different movies: 'The Keep', 'Wavelength' and 'Tatort:Miriam' > >[. . .] The version played on the Tatort show was very > >similar to the version used in the movie 'The Keep'. > > Hmmm. Hmmm, yes you agree or Hmmm, you don't think so? ;-) Cheers, Arne From: 'Scott' Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 3:47 pm Subject: Other Keep ST on Ebay Hey, check this one out: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1517900052 It's a Keep soundtrack on Orange records, but it also has non-Keep tunes on it, like Moorland and Silver Scale. the description says its from Canada. What's the story? Scott From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:30 pm Subject: TD with MO This seems to be the answer to the TD with Oldfield thing. >'In a response to the recent discussion over the suppossed Tangerine Dream >track with Mike Oldfield on guitar I'd like to point out that some time ago >this topic was raised on the list; I downloaded the track - obviously copied >from a worn-out tape and it was a song by an Austrian artist who calls >himself Gandalf. I can't remember exactly, but the track was either from the >album Visions (1982) or Magic Theatre (1983). This multiinstrumentalist has >released a few decent albums that could be of a high interest of an Oldfield >fan, but also a large pile of sweet newagey crap. The albums to listen to >are Visions, Magic Theatre and Gallery of Dreams. >Jan' Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Nick Adams' Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Round 29 of SBM conversation Morgan Asked.... > Is there a Logos SBM? Yup, have a copy right here in my hand..... Nick NP Kubusschnitt / The Singularity .....Superb!!!! Home Nicad@n... Work Nick_Adams@L... ICQ 44174543 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32336 Re: Round 29 of SBM conversation Wade Gordon Sat 2/23/2002 2 KB From: Wade Gordon Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 7:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Round 29 of SBM conversation Nick, Yes, there is an Logos SBM and it is worth the quest to receive one. Wade --- Nick Adams wrote: > Morgan Asked.... > > > Is there a Logos SBM? > > Yup, have a copy right here in my hand..... > > Nick > > NP Kubusschnitt / The Singularity .....Superb!!!! > > > Home Nicad@n... > Work Nick_Adams@L... > ICQ 44174543 > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: Wade Gordon Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 7:28 pm Subject: Hey gang, Here is some information regarding the upcoming release of 'Music From the 21st Century.' For those of you not familiar with it I will give you a little background information. The album and cassette came out in the early 80's. It had an introduction by Richard Burmer followed by 'Tangram.' As of two weeks ago I talked to Neil Norman who runs GNP CRESENDO RECORDS and he said, that he is working with Chris Franke on the rerelease of this project on c.d.. I feel that this would be important to any collector of TD. The mix of Tangram is a little different from the Virgin one and it is an interest juxapostion of Richard Burmer's intro into 'Tangram.' It is one of my favorites. All the best, Wade __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 10:32 pm Subject: final round: TD with MO The last detail: 'yes, I have found it. According to http://www.jpc.de/ the track is taken from the album 'To another horizon' and it is called 'Flight of the crystal ships'. Maybe it is Steve Hackett on guitar? Holger' Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32339 Re: final round: TD with MO Antonio Nunes Sat 2/23/2002 2 KB 32342 Re: final round: TD with MO Gustavo Jobim Sun 2/24/2002 2 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 11:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] final round: TD with MO Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > The last detail: > > 'yes, I have found it. According to http://www.jpc.de/ the track is > taken from the album 'To another horizon' and it is called 'Flight of > the crystal ships'. Maybe it is Steve Hackett on guitar? > Holger' Hey Jobim, you solved the mystery of the false TD+MO track! There's even a RealAudio sample of the track on the site you mention. Now, what mystery are you going to solve next, the Keep LP or the origin of the TD name? ;-) Antonio Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32342 Re: final round: TD with MO Gustavo Jobim Sun 2/24/2002 2 KB From: 'Grant M Somerville' Date: Sat Feb 23, 2002 11:55 pm Subject: test please ignore test [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'E Neal Frost' Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:16 am Subject: Tangerine Dream Ice Cream Hello All, I know it has been several weeks since this was discussed, however, my wife has just returned from the market with a half gallon of Tangerine Dream Ice Cream. This is the Grocery store's own label ice cream, kinda like the generic brand: Publix (The name of the local market) Premium Lite Ice Cream 'Tangerine Dream: Light Vanilla Ice Cream with Luscious Tangerine Sauce. Swirled in and Sprinkled with Rich Chocolate Chunks.' So, for the people in Florida, or the Atlanta, GA areas, rush right out to your local Publix Supermarket and get some. It is really quite good. Just had to share....... Neal Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32403 Re: Tangerine Dream Ice Cream Owens, James Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:10 am Subject: Re: [tadream] final round: TD with MO >Hey Jobim, you solved the mystery of the false TD+MO track! There's even >a RealAudio sample of the track on the site you mention. Heheh, not really me, the folks at the Oldfield list did (this last message with the track name was by Holger Diehr)... >Now, what mystery are you going to solve next, the Keep LP or the origin >of the TD name? ;-) now TD's name is more mysterious than the origin of supernatural probabilities :) GJ np. Oldfield's Amarok (a masterpiece) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 2:57 am Subject: Re: [tadream] test please ignore Grant M Somerville wrote: > > test Did we pass? -- Mark (Sorry, I just couldn't resist.) From: Liondream@a... Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 5:21 am Subject: drums in Ricochet Are you guys certain about this? Sorry to doubt... I just always thought that around that time it was drum loops. Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:35:58 -0800 (PST) From: Wade Gordon Subject: Re: guitars in Ricochet No, its the real McCoy all right. Wade --- Gustavo Jobim wrote: > Hi folks, > I've wondered more than once... who is the drummer > in Ricochet? or is that electronic? Doesn't sound > electronic to me... > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32359 Re: drums in Ricochet etc. omegatransfinito Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32366 Re: drums in Ricochet etc. goozergrafx Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: Liondream@a... Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 5:34 am Subject: Virgin remasters Personally, I got Encore because the orginal cd release version I had bought seemed so bad. Then I got Force Majeure which did seem a lot better to me. Seemed like I was hearing clarity that I hadn't noticed there before. So I would say at least get one of the albums which would be one that you like to listen to a lot and try for yourself. Also, because of the nature of the original material, and how good of a job the mastering engineer did, the improvement will be more pronounced for some releases than for others. I got some of the new Synergy releases too, and they seem better to me. Generally speaking, things had to be mastered totally differently for lp... having to do with eq levels, bass dynamics and available length on the vinyl, the physics of cutting the master, etc., etc. So, there was a lot of eqing and compression for vinyl that isn't necessary for cds. A lot of times on the original cd releases what you're hearing is the original master for vinyl just repurposed for the cd release - and in the early days of cds, people didn't really know what they were doing with the new medium too. Of course, now there's the issue of the new 24-bit cds too, yipes - it never ends!!! Cheers, << Subject: Re: Brazil. Cyclone SBM A general thing... what's up with those SBM remastered versions from Virgin? Is there a any big improvement when you compare the sound of an older CD with a remastered one? I already thought about replacing my older TD Collection from Virgin with the remastered versions.>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32346 Re: Virgin remasters Wade Gordon Sun 2/24/2002 4 KB 32360 Re: Virgin remasters Paul Fellows Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32388 Re: Virgin remasters Jim Moore Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32347 Re: Virgin remasters Kevin Keller Sun 2/24/2002 2 KB 32348 Re: Virgin remasters Wade Gordon Sun 2/24/2002 3 KB 32349 Re: Virgin remasters Matthew Sawyer Sun 2/24/2002 3 KB 32350 Re: Virgin remasters Wade Gordon Sun 2/24/2002 3 KB 32351 Re: Virgin remasters Matthew Sawyer Sun 2/24/2002 2 KB 32355 Re: Virgin remasters Admin Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: Wade Gordon Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 6:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters Hey, Personally I perfer the SMB. They are 20 bit mastered from Original Master tapes while the older virgin releases are either 1st or second generation masters. Here's the rub. If you are going to replace your set with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because they are slowly but surely going out of print. For some of the titles you may have to settle for a used copy. All the best, Wade --- Liondream@a... wrote: > Personally, I got Encore because the orginal cd > release version I had bought > seemed so bad. Then I got Force Majeure which did > seem a lot better to me. > Seemed like I was hearing clarity that I hadn't > noticed there before. So I > would say at least get one of the albums which would > be one that you like to > listen to a lot and try for yourself. Also, because > of the nature of the > original material, and how good of a job the > mastering engineer did, the > improvement will be more pronounced for some > releases than for others. > > I got some of the new Synergy releases too, and they > seem better to me. > > Generally speaking, things had to be mastered > totally differently for lp... > having to do with eq levels, bass dynamics and > available length on the vinyl, > the physics of cutting the master, etc., etc. So, > there was a lot of eqing > and compression for vinyl that isn't necessary for > cds. A lot of times on the > original cd releases what you're hearing is the > original master for vinyl > just repurposed for the cd release - and in the > early days of cds, people > didn't really know what they were doing with the new > medium too. > > Of course, now there's the issue of the new 24-bit > cds too, yipes - it never > ends!!! > > Cheers, > > << Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:36:57 +0100 > From: René Brenner > Subject: Re: Brazil. Cyclone SBM > > A general thing... what's up with those SBM > remastered versions from Virgin? > Is there a any big improvement when you compare the > sound of an older CD with > a remastered one? I already thought about replacing > my older TD Collection > from Virgin with the remastered versions.>>> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32360 Re: Virgin remasters Paul Fellows Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32388 Re: Virgin remasters Jim Moore Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB From: Kevin Keller Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 6:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters Wade Gordon wrote: > If you are going to replace your set > with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because they > are slowly but surely going out of print. Yikes! Is there a list somewhere of which releases where re-mastered as SBMs? Or is there a good source for finding them or ordering them online? I am looking for the following SBM re-masters: Phaedra Rubycon Hyperborea White Eagle Thanks. *** Kevin Keller Composer and Producer - Classical Space Music E-mail: kkproductions@e... **** Kevin Keller Trio Live at Morrison Planetarium, Golden Gate Park, SF Sunday, March 24 at 8 PM Advance tickets now on sale at http://www.kevinkeller.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32348 Re: Virgin remasters Wade Gordon Sun 2/24/2002 3 KB From: Wade Gordon Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 6:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters Kevin, Here is what you have to do. There are as I know at least three sources for the Virgin SBM's. I would check between Amazon and cdnow to see who has the cheapest price. You can aso get them from Barnesandnoble.com, but there prices are a little bit higher. You can also find them on Yahoo music, but again this is a little pricey. If you check ebay you can usually find them used. You have got quite a quest in front of you because these titles are usually back ordered. All the best, Wade --- Kevin Keller wrote: > Wade Gordon wrote: > > > If you are going to replace your set > > with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because > they > > are slowly but surely going out of print. > > Yikes! Is there a list somewhere of which releases > where re-mastered as > SBMs? Or is there a good source for finding them or > ordering them online? > I am looking for the following SBM re-masters: > > Phaedra > Rubycon > Hyperborea > White Eagle > > Thanks. > *** > Kevin Keller > Composer and Producer - Classical Space Music > E-mail: kkproductions@e... > **** > Kevin Keller Trio > Live at Morrison Planetarium, Golden Gate Park, SF > Sunday, March 24 at 8 PM > Advance tickets now on sale at > http://www.kevinkeller.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 6:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters From: 'Kevin Keller' > Yikes! Is there a list somewhere of which releases where re-mastered as > SBMs? All the Virgin years ones. Phaedra through Hyperborea. > Or is there a good source for finding them or ordering them online? > I am looking for the following SBM re-masters: > > Phaedra > Rubycon > Hyperborea > White Eagle Looks like Amazon.com have the SBM versions of Hyperborea and White Ealge, but not the other two. Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32350 Re: Virgin remasters Wade Gordon Sun 2/24/2002 3 KB From: Wade Gordon Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 6:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters Mathew, Actually, the hardest one to find is 'Thief.' If you do not have the SBM of this I highly recomend it. You have to understand that the original was not made from the original master, but the 1st generation. Original masters do make a difference, especially with the Sequel releases. These have liner notes from Jonathan Miller, Yes, the Jonathan Miller while the SBM's have liner notes from Mark Pendergast. I wrote Jonathan Miller and discussed this with him. I did not know that he liked electronic music all I ever heard him talk about is Opera. All the best, Wade --- Matthew Sawyer wrote: > From: 'Kevin Keller' > > > Yikes! Is there a list somewhere of which > releases where re-mastered as > > SBMs? > > All the Virgin years ones. Phaedra through > Hyperborea. > > > > Or is there a good source for finding them or > ordering them online? > > I am looking for the following SBM re-masters: > > > > Phaedra > > Rubycon > > Hyperborea > > White Eagle > > > Looks like Amazon.com have the SBM versions of > Hyperborea and White Ealge, > but not the other two. > > > Maff > _______________________________________________________ > www.mst3uk.com > www.maff.da.ru > www.tachyon-tv.co.uk > www.eclipsecafe.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 6:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters From: 'Wade Gordon' > Mathew, > > Actually, the hardest one to find is 'Thief.' http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=2005225444/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/al bum.html/artistid=TANGERINE+DREAM/itemid=434797 Doesn't actually say if they have it in stock. Presumably it is the SBM one as the page says it's 'Live', which was an error on the SBM version cover. Maff From: Joe Shoults Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 7:55 pm Subject: FW: 'Legend' details FYI: -----Original Message----- ...this is big news for TD fans, and I thought you may want to pass it along. The Region 4 official announcement for the Legend DVD has been issued... and among the extras included on the 2-disc set is an ISOLATED Tangerine Dream score. Perhaps one of the contributing factors to the long delay in the disc's release... http://www.dvdargentina.com/noticias.php?newsid=967 From: 'vic rek' Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:14 pm Subject: Ghost Dad in Spanish The other day I was watching the DVD of Ghost Dad with my son. I always enjoy the scene with the crazy satanic taxi driver with the Sorcerer Theme 'Betrayal' playing prominently through the speakers. Today I was playing a few fan CD-Rs (Pyramid Dreams VII, track 4) and I noticed that it had the lifted Sorcerer track from the movie. I played it and I forgot that it was from a Spanish dubbed version of the movie. My son and I played it full blast and had a laugh listening to the Spanish dialogue with the music. My son particularily enjoyed it since he is studying Spanish. I recommend that you check out this comedy if it comes your way. Vic From: Liondream@a... Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:31 pm Subject: music of the 21st century Wade, Is this also the disc that had a Michael Garrison piece on it as well as others? I think my brother used to have that lp. This will be pretty cool indeed to have on cd. << Subject: (unknown) Hey gang, Here is some information regarding the upcoming release of 'Music From the 21st Century.' For those of you not familiar with it I will give you a little background information. The album and cassette came out in the early 80's. It had an introduction by Richard Burmer followed by 'Tangram.' As of two weeks ago I talked to Neil Norman who runs GNP CRESENDO RECORDS and he said, that he is working with Chris Franke on the rerelease of this project on c.d.. I feel that this would be important to any collector of TD. The mix of Tangram is a little different from the Virgin one and it is an interest juxapostion of Richard Burmer's intro into 'Tangram.' It is one of my favorites. All the best, Wade>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32356 Re: music of the 21st century vic rek Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32370 Re: music of the 21st century Wade Gordon Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32375 Re: music of the 21st century C. Chambers Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 4:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters I would have to say that 'Live' was a misprint. Anyone else? Favorite all time is on this soundtrack, 'Diamond Diary'. I need to get this on CD, I just have the album. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters > From: 'Wade Gordon' > > > > Mathew, > > > > Actually, the hardest one to find is 'Thief.' > > http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=2005225444/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/al > bum.html/artistid=TANGERINE+DREAM/itemid=434797 > > Doesn't actually say if they have it in stock. Presumably it is the SBM one > as the page says it's 'Live', which was an error on the SBM version cover. > > > Maff > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'vic rek' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 4:33 am Subject: Re: [tadream] music of the 21st century Hi Wade, It's good to see you on the list. > I feel that this would be important to any collector > of TD. The mix of Tangram is a little different from > the Virgin one and it is an interest juxapostion of > Richard Burmer's intro into 'Tangram.' > Wade>>> I would buy this CD in a moment. Do you have any planned release date from Neil? BTW, how are you book sales coming along? Has it topped the Amazon charts yet? :-) Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32370 Re: music of the 21st century Wade Gordon Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32375 Re: music of the 21st century C. Chambers Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 4:57 am Subject: interesting plug Marcel Did you see the plug here for you at Air Sculpture web site? http://www.airsculpture.com/ Dale If this was already posted, just give me a DUH... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32365 Re: interesting plug deibu@i... Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32368 Re: interesting plug Administrator for kay-net.com Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: 'Yannick EDOM' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:24 am Subject: DREAMWATCHER'S TALES ONLINE Hi everyone Right now you can discover the Dreamwatchers' Tales project through Olyam's website (www.olyam.com). You can discover the two albums with all informations and tracks listings with copyrights. You can also hear audio samples from the project (real audio format). The DTS track 'im memoriam' by Darklion and Olyam can be fully heard on the website as a stereo version is online. You can download th mp3 format for everyone who can't play DTS tracks. I hope there will be some other Dreamwatchers projects. On olyam's website chose the link 'cliquez ici pour en savoir plus sur le projet Dreamwatchers' Tales'. Waiting for your reactions. Enjoy Yannick Edom Mirage Créations Champlain B7 A 101 47 Chemin de Pelleport 31500 TOULOUSE FRANCE e-mail : yannick.edom@s... From: 'omegatransfinito' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:54 am Subject: Re: drums in Ricochet etc. > Are you guys certain about this? Sorry to doubt... I just always thought that > around that time it was drum loops. I though Chris's drums were sold after the initial recording of Green Desert (to get some funds for the Moog in Phaedra?) so I've always thought the ones in Ricochet I are synthetic. And I don't believe either it's a studio addition. The Tree Vol.7 disk, which has the crude version of Ricochet II, has quite impressive drumming. Much more intense than in the album version - it's more like as in Green Desert. John Vertical PS: I just bought Antique Dreams - could someone explain what is the main sequence of Speed (Dragon) doing at the beginning of Calymba Caly? Something reeks here... PPS: Greetings from Amsterdam! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32366 Re: drums in Ricochet etc. goozergrafx Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: Paul Fellows Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Virgin remasters Hi all, Just for info: The 'Definitive Edition' series of remastered 'Super Bit Mapping' CDs came out in 1995: 13 in total, all of the albums released by Virgin between 'Phaedra' and 'Hyperborea', i.e. between 1974 and 1984, except 'Heartbreakers', 'Risky Business' and 'Pergamon'. Here's the complete list: Phaedra Rubycon Ricochet Stratosfear Encore Cyclone Force Majeure Tangram Exit White Eagle Thief Logos Hyperborea Cheers Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32388 Re: Virgin remasters Jim Moore Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB From: 'braddito' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:00 am Subject: OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree ? Dixons are selling off Kodak Gold/Silver 80m spindles of 25 discs for £9.99 while stocks last, so if you need loads of CDR's for the tree, grab them quickly. Toby Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32362 Re: OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree ? tangram12 Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32363 Re: OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree ? Simon Pride Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: 'tangram12' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:58 am Subject: Re: OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree ? or for an even cheaper source of blank cdrs go to here - http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/acatalog/ Duncan tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk --- In tadream@y..., 'braddito' wrote: > Dixons are selling off Kodak Gold/Silver 80m spindles of 25 discs for > £9.99 while stocks last, so if you need loads of CDR's for the tree, > grab them quickly. > > Toby Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32363 Re: OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree ? Simon Pride Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: 'Simon Pride' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:01 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree ? http://www.121cdr.co.uk/ - low prices, good service. > -----Original Message----- > From: tangram12 [mailto:tangram@t...] > Sent: 25 February 2002 09:59 > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree ? > > > or for an even cheaper source of blank cdrs go to here - > http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/acatalog/ > > Duncan > tangram@t... > www.tadream.co.uk > > > --- In tadream@y..., 'braddito' wrote: > > Dixons are selling off Kodak Gold/Silver 80m spindles of 25 discs > for > > £9.99 while stocks last, so if you need loads of CDR's for the > tree, > > grab them quickly. > > > > Toby > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: ampmusic Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 1247 > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:27:41 -0800 (PST) > From: Wade Gordon > Subject: Re: Virgin remasters > > Mathew, > > Actually, the hardest one to find is 'Thief.' If you > do not have the SBM of this I highly recomend it. You > have to understand that the original was not made from > the original master, but the 1st generation. Original > masters do make a difference, especially with the > Sequel releases. These have liner notes from Jonathan > Miller, Yes, the Jonathan Miller while the SBM's have > liner notes from Mark Pendergast. I wrote Jonathan > Miller and discussed this with him. I did not know > that he liked electronic music all I ever heard him > talk about is Opera. > > All the best, > > Wade That's really funny :-)))))) The whole point is that it's NOT 'the' Jonathan Miller - if by that you mean the British satirist and operatic producer. It's a much younger bloke who writes articles for Sound On Sound and other magazines. I don't think you'd get a very interesting discussion of Tangerine Dream out of 'the' Jonathan Miller. Coming next - the new Klaus Schulze boxed set with sleeve notes by Peter Cook :-) From: Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 2:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] interesting plug > Marcel > Did you see the plug here for you at Air Sculpture web site? > http://www.airsculpture.com/ > > Dale > > If this was already posted, just give me a DUH... Heh, don't even mention that Bill, Jens and myself are also 'plugged' on the AS site for the Oke2002 gathering! ;-) Dave B. (okay, so maybe I'm not very important...) From: 'goozergrafx' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 3:01 pm Subject: Re: drums in Ricochet etc. Yes, we're quite certain. Most of the drums are a studio addition, the rest are loops used in concert. You can easily tell which are which, even without the boot. And they are real acoustic drums, BTW. As for 'Speed'/'Calymba Caly'; 'Speed' was taken from 'Calymba Caly', just as they did numerous times with other live sequences to be used in film scores. goozer --- In tadream@y..., 'omegatransfinito' wrote: > > Are you guys certain about this? Sorry to doubt... I just always > thought that > > around that time it was drum loops. > > > I though Chris's drums were sold after the initial recording of Green > Desert (to get some funds for the Moog in Phaedra?) so I've always > thought the ones in Ricochet I are synthetic. > > And I don't believe either it's a studio addition. The Tree Vol.7 > disk, which has the crude version of Ricochet II, has quite > impressive drumming. Much more intense than in the album version - > it's more like as in Green Desert. > > John Vertical > > PS: I just bought Antique Dreams - could someone explain what is the > main sequence of Speed (Dragon) doing at the beginning of Calymba > Caly? Something reeks here... > > PPS: Greetings from Amsterdam! From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 10:23 pm Subject: DM3 and considerations about TD and EM Hi folks, I don't play many of the TD albums I have very often; it's been some months since I last heard DM3, for example. So I'm playing it now again, and it's good to know that my first impression, of a very good album, wasn't just momentary, just a first impression. It's indeed very good. It's good to know that, generation after generation of electronic music, some of the biggest fathers of EM are still out there, able to make good quality music. Again, DM3 is very good. Inferno seems to be brilliant, I can't wait to listen to the official release. Great Wall (also one of the CDs I brought to work today) and Mars Polaris aren't fantastic, but they are good. I've just heard Stereolight (np Diamonds and Dust). Excellent, excellent. And later I'll be listening to The Spirit of The Czar, which was just an very very pleasant surprise, with the new percussion made in a way it matches the old percussion. I remember the first time I heard it, it was before going to sleep, so I really didn't know the titles of the music I was listening. It was great to hear Poland, which was my first TD CD (with W.E.), being like resurrected in this fantastic new form, heavily sampled. Many thanks to Edgar, Chris, Peter, Johannes, Klaus, Manuel, Jean-Michel, R.Moog, Theremin, Karlheinz and so many others for helping to create this great experience that EM is. -GJ having lunch, at work, Blue Spears loud in the speakers. From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 4:19 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] interesting plug Your right! One has to do something to entice one from lurking? Dale ;-) Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:01 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] interesting plug > > Marcel > > Did you see the plug here for you at Air Sculpture web site? > > http://www.airsculpture.com/ > > > > Dale > > > > If this was already posted, just give me a DUH... > > Heh, don't even mention that Bill, Jens and myself are also 'plugged' on the > AS site for the Oke2002 gathering! ;-) > > Dave B. (okay, so maybe I'm not very important...) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'convention24' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 5:13 pm Subject: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Hello I was wondering if any of you have come across a gold CD of the Tyger album,i have just bought one on ebay,and was curious whether anyone else has got one,knowing my luck its been coloured in with a pen,but i couldnt resist taking a chance.I would appreciate any information anyone could forward on this,i cant find anything in the discographies Best regards Colin South Wales GB. P/S Whom do i contact concerning the tree? Thanks again. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32373 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) j.gordon Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32377 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) René Brenner Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32378 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) tangram12 Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32383 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) j.gordon Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32379 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Marcelo Gutierrez Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32417 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Michael A Jean Wed 2/27/2002 4 KB 32419 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) j.gordon Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB 32380 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Marcelo Gutierrez Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: Wade Gordon Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 5:17 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] music of the 21st century Vic, I again talked to Neil and he said that he is still working on the project. Also, my book is moving rather well at barnesandnoble.com and amazon.com. Thanks for asking. Wade --- vic rek wrote: > Hi Wade, > > It's good to see you on the list. > > > I feel that this would be important to any > collector > > of TD. The mix of Tangram is a little different > from > > the Virgin one and it is an interest juxapostion > of > > Richard Burmer's intro into 'Tangram.' > > Wade>>> > > I would buy this CD in a moment. Do you have any > planned release date from > Neil? > BTW, how are you book sales coming along? Has it > topped the Amazon charts > yet? :-) > > Vic > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: Liondream@a... Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 5:32 pm Subject: virgin remasters Definitely going to pick up White Eagle then (which is the one I saw in the store the other day) 'cos I like that one a lot. If something better comes out in the future, I'll worry about that then. Funny... When I first started getting albums in general (and td in particular) I didn't have a turntable or even big stereo system, so I got cassettes. Then, when I did finally get a stereo, I replaced some things on lp. So, Encore, for example, is something that I bought four times. First on cassette, then lp, then cd, then remaster cd. LOL. Thanks for the head's up! << Subject: Re: Virgin remasters Hey, Personally I perfer the SMB. They are 20 bit mastered from Original Master tapes while the older virgin releases are either 1st or second generation masters. Here's the rub. If you are going to replace your set with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because they are slowly but surely going out of print. For some of the titles you may have to settle for a used copy. All the best, Wade>>> Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32385 Re: virgin remasters atye@a... Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32393 Re: virgin remasters John Vertical Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32397 sbm x old cds Re: virgin remasters Gustavo Jobim Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32402 Re: virgin remasters quarlie@a... Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32414 Re: virgin remasters braddito Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB 32415 Re: virgin remasters John Vertical Wed 2/27/2002 3 KB From: Liondream@a... Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 5:34 pm Subject: virgin remasters where? Oh, I will tell you where I've been having luck - but only later tonight after I raid the place myself!!! I'll take a survey and let you guys know what I find if you like... << Subject: Re: Virgin remasters Wade Gordon wrote: > If you are going to replace your set > with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because they > are slowly but surely going out of print. Yikes! Is there a list somewhere of which releases where re-mastered as SBMs? Or is there a good source for finding them or ordering them online? I am looking for the following SBM re-masters: Phaedra Rubycon Hyperborea White Eagle>>> From: 'j.gordon' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) i have a gold CD of Tyger... found in the bargin bin of a zurich HB CD shop... CHF 7... it has the 'original' lineup, not the one with Vigour... it is a Jive pressing (i don't know the number off the top of my head) and has black writing... to be honest, it looks dodgy, but it has the non-funked up version of Tyger, and i figure for CHF 7, i can be a tiny completionist... ;) jerome --- convention24 wrote: > Hello > I was wondering if any of you have come across a gold CD of the Tyger > album,i have just bought one on ebay,and was curious whether anyone > else has got one,knowing my luck its been coloured in with a pen,but > i couldnt resist taking a chance.I would appreciate any information > anyone could forward on this,i cant find anything in the discographies > Best regards Colin South Wales GB. > P/S Whom do i contact concerning the tree? Thanks again. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32377 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) René Brenner Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32378 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) tangram12 Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32383 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) j.gordon Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: drums in Ricochet etc. >Yes, we're quite certain. Most of the drums are a studio addition, the >rest are loops used in concert. You can easily tell which are which, >even without the boot. And they are real acoustic drums, BTW. So now they're simultaneously just loops and real acoustic drums...? And is it then just a legend that Chris sold his drums after GD? John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32387 Re: drums in Ricochet etc. Jim Moore Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32523 Re: drums in Ricochet etc. Heiko Heerssen Tue 3/5/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] music of the 21st century Me too...I transferred my old cassette copy to CDR some time ago, and I really enjoy these tracks. Craig > I would buy this CD in a moment. Do you have any planned release > date from > Neil? > BTW, how are you book sales coming along? Has it topped the Amazon charts > yet? :-) > > Vic From: 'Bruce A. Crichton' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:14 pm Subject: Re: Virgin remasters ________________________________________________________________________ >Message: 15 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:34:45 -0800 From: Paul Fellows Subject: Re: Virgin remasters Hi all, Just for info: The 'Definitive Edition' series of remastered 'Super Bit Mapping' CDs came out in 1995: 13 in total, all of the albums released by Virgin between 'Phaedra' and 'Hyperborea', i.e. between 1974 and 1984, except 'Heartbreakers', 'Risky Business' and 'Pergamon'. Here's the complete list: Phaedra Rubycon Ricochet Stratosfear Encore Cyclone Force Majeure Tangram Exit White Eagle Thief Logos > Hyperborea Got quite a few of these. Picked up Tangram ,Stratosfear and White Eagle at the weekend for £20 in total. They all have the same liner notes. Why is 'Sorcerer' not in this collection? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32381 Re: Virgin remasters Paul Fellows Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: René Brenner Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) do they have a 2nd one? ;) On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:27:37 -0800, j.gordon wrote: > i have a gold CD of Tyger... found in the bargin bin of a zurich HB CD shop... > CHF 7... it has the 'original' lineup, not the one with Vigour... > > it is a Jive pressing (i don't know the number off the top of my head) and has > black writing... to be honest, it looks dodgy, but it has the non-funked up > version of Tyger, and i figure for CHF 7, i can be a tiny completionist... ;) > > jerome > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32378 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) tangram12 Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB 32383 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) j.gordon Mon 2/25/2002 3 KB From: 'tangram12' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:18 pm Subject: Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) this tyger release you have found is in fact part of a 3 gold cd box set released by jive around 1990, the set also includes poland and the best of all are gold cds. so what you have is only part of the set. check out paul fellows website or voices in the dunes for info on this release. Duncan --- In tadream@y..., René Brenner wrote: > do they have a 2nd one? ;) > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:27:37 -0800, j.gordon wrote: > > i have a gold CD of Tyger... found in the bargin bin of a zurich HB CD shop... > > CHF 7... it has the 'original' lineup, not the one with Vigour... > > > > it is a Jive pressing (i don't know the number off the top of my head) and has > > black writing... to be honest, it looks dodgy, but it has the non-funked up > > version of Tyger, and i figure for CHF 7, i can be a tiny completionist... ;) > > > > jerome > > > > > > From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:25 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Was the original version of the album 'Tyger', meaning no 'Vigour' and original Tyger, ever released on CD? Marcelo ----- Original Message ----- From: René Brenner To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) > do they have a 2nd one? ;) > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:27:37 -0800, j.gordon wrote: > > i have a gold CD of Tyger... found in the bargin bin of a zurich HB CD shop... > > CHF 7... it has the 'original' lineup, not the one with Vigour... > > > > it is a Jive pressing (i don't know the number off the top of my head) and has > > black writing... to be honest, it looks dodgy, but it has the non-funked up > > version of Tyger, and i figure for CHF 7, i can be a tiny completionist... ;) > > > > jerome > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32417 Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Michael A Jean Wed 2/27/2002 4 KB 32419 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) j.gordon Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) I guess this also answers my question. Thanks Marcelo ----- Original Message ----- From: tangram12 To: Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:18 PM Subject: [tadream] Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) this tyger release you have found is in fact part of a 3 gold cd box set released by jive around 1990, the set also includes poland and the best of all are gold cds. so what you have is only part of the set. check out paul fellows website or voices in the dunes for info on this release. Duncan --- In tadream@y..., René Brenner wrote: > do they have a 2nd one? ;) > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:27:37 -0800, j.gordon wrote: > > i have a gold CD of Tyger... found in the bargin bin of a zurich HB CD shop... > > CHF 7... it has the 'original' lineup, not the one with Vigour... > > > > it is a Jive pressing (i don't know the number off the top of my head) and has > > black writing... to be honest, it looks dodgy, but it has the non-funked up > > version of Tyger, and i figure for CHF 7, i can be a tiny completionist... ;) > > > > jerome > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: Paul Fellows Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Virgin remasters le 25/02/02 21:14, Bruce A. Crichton à BRUCE@F... a écrit : > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > >> Message: 15 > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:34:45 -0800 > From: Paul Fellows > Subject: Re: Virgin remasters > > Hi all, > > Just for info: > > The 'Definitive Edition' series of remastered 'Super Bit Mapping' CDs came > out in 1995: 13 in total, all of the albums released by Virgin between > 'Phaedra' and 'Hyperborea', i.e. between 1974 and 1984, except > 'Heartbreakers', 'Risky Business' and 'Pergamon'. Here's the complete list: > > Phaedra > Rubycon > Ricochet > Stratosfear > Encore > Cyclone > Force Majeure > Tangram > Exit > White Eagle > Thief > Logos >> Hyperborea > > Got quite a few of these. Picked up Tangram ,Stratosfear and White Eagle at > the weekend for £20 in total. > > They all have the same liner notes. > > Why is 'Sorcerer' not in this collection? > Because it wasn't originally released on Virgin, but MCA Paul From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:47 pm Subject: Rubycon SACD I know that some of the list members have got the SACD edition of Rubycon, can anyone tell me where they got it from? Thanks Marcelo ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32384 Re: Rubycon SACD tangram12 Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) in fact, they almost always do... or did... i haven't been in a couple of months... it's in the CD shop across from Silberkugel (two shops down from inter-discount)... give it a try... =) jerome --- René Brenner wrote: > do they have a 2nd one? ;) > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:27:37 -0800, j.gordon wrote: > > i have a gold CD of Tyger... found in the bargin bin of a zurich HB CD > shop... > > CHF 7... it has the 'original' lineup, not the one with Vigour... > > > > it is a Jive pressing (i don't know the number off the top of my head) and > has > > black writing... to be honest, it looks dodgy, but it has the non-funked up > > version of Tyger, and i figure for CHF 7, i can be a tiny completionist... > ;) > > > > jerome > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: 'tangram12' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:39 pm Subject: Re: Rubycon SACD i got my copy of rubycon SACD from www.eil.com it sounds great when played on the correct equipement :-) Duncan --- In tadream@y..., 'Marcelo Gutierrez' wrote: > I know that some of the list members have got the SACD edition of Rubycon, > can anyone tell me where they got it from? > > Thanks > > Marcelo > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today > Only $9.95 per month! > http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: atye@a... Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 10:52 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] virgin remasters DUH.... I just checked my CD's....I already have Hyperborea, Encore, and Logos SBM versions...purchased them a few years back at a regular retail store and had no idea. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good....haha :-) Alex (ATYE) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:05 am Subject: [tree] Tangerine Tree update the following updates were made to the Tangerine Tree: Colin in Wales assigned to branch Alan Miller David Gilbert and Wade Gordon assigned to Brian Walenz Lee Thomas Millar and Tim Rivers assigned to Daniel Holbrecht Jeff Pearce assigned to Mark Filipak On another note: or the most part, I have tried to spread the descendants in the tree around so that everybody who wanted to be a branch could be. Now that every branch has at least one descendant, if anyone wants to raise their hand and let me know they can take on newcomers to the tree, please contact me offlist. Thanks, joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32389 Re: [tree] Tangerine Tree update Synthhtnys@a... Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32390 Re: [tree] Tangerine Tree update Kevin Keller Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:28 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: drums in Ricochet etc. From: John Vertical [mailto:johnvertical@h...] >So now they're simultaneously just loops and real acoustic drums...? And is it then just >a legend that Chris sold his drums after GD? I think he probably got enough money after Phaedra to buy them back ... - jim From: 'Jim Moore' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:28 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Virgin remasters From: Paul Fellows [mailto:pfellows@c...] >Just for info: >The 'Definitive Edition' series of remastered 'Super Bit Mapping' CDs came out in 1995: 13 in total, all of the albums released by Virgin between 'Phaedra' and 'Hyperborea', i.e. between 1974 and 1984, except 'Heartbreakers', 'Risky Business' and 'Pergamon'. Here's the complete list: For the 'Yanks' at least (and I say that living in the South), Pergamon was remastered and released by Sequel (who re-released the Ohr/Jive/Electro/Relativity albums in the US -- Pink and Blue Years). It was an improvement (to my ears) over the Caroline release from the mid-80's. - jim From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tangerine Tree update In a message dated 2/25/2002 5:52:15 PM Central Standard Time, jshoults@f... writes: > Jeff Pearce assigned to Mark Filipak > > *AHA!!!! I saw that! Hypnos lurker # 2!!! Poly-oly oxen free [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Kevin Keller Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:30 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Tangerine Tree update Joe Shoults wrote: > the following updates were made to the Tangerine Tree: Pardon my ignorance as a newcomer to this group - but what exactly is the Tangerine Tree? -- Kevin Keller Composer and Producer - Classical Space Music E-mail: kkproductions@e... **** Kevin Keller Trio Live at Morrison Planetarium, Golden Gate Park, SF Sunday, March 24 at 8 PM Advance tickets now on sale at http://www.kevinkeller.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Liondream@a... Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:36 am Subject: SBM Update Well, for those interested and who can't find sbm (or other) versions of TD elsewhere, particularly if you're living in the U.S., my favorite local source for TD cds is a place Crow's Nest. They consistently have the largest selection of TD cds of any place I know around here. Good selection of electronic music in general, and by far the best selection of techno/dance type stuff in the city IMO. Picked up Future Primitive there a few months ago! 1157 W Fullerton Ave Chicago 773-935-9196 This is speaking only in terms of a physical b&m store that you can walk into, and they're not ideal. I mean they've never even heard of half the stuff we discuss on here and that you find, for example, at Synthmusicdirect or Horizon. Anyway... they have a website, which lists most of the sbm discs as on backorder, even though a few of them are to be found in the actual stores. This place has Hyperborea and Encore SBM for $10.98 each. Optical Race (which I think might be hard to find these days). A lot of TDI releases and pre sbm Virgin releases. The earlier Virgin releases vary between $8.98 and $10.98 each. Destination Berlin (in import section) $21.98. A pretty good selection of Klaus Schulze too, though I wouldn't know where to begin with him. CD double-packs of earlier releases plus a newish live disc separate vol. 1 and vol. 2 in import section. I hope I'm not bothering anyone with this info. I'm sharing it in case anyone out there (especially stateside) might be looking for some of these and can't find them elsewhere. I thought Destination Berlin, in particular might be of interest. Anyway... perhaps if you call the store you might be able to order it. Happy sequencing! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32392 Re: SBM Update Admin Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:21 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SBM Update hit me with the web site address. Dale off list if need be From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:06 am Subject: Re: [tadream] virgin remasters >I just checked my CD's....I already have Hyperborea, Encore, and Logos SBM >versions...purchased them a few years back at a regular retail store and >had >no idea. Perhaps I should check this too. Where can I see whether or not? And what difference there is in SBM, anyway? John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32397 sbm x old cds Re: virgin remasters Gustavo Jobim Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB From: tom george Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:52 am Subject: Mail Order SBM's --- tadream@yahoogroups.com wrote: > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 16 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Virgin remasters > From: Wade Gordon > > 2. Re: Virgin remasters > From: Kevin Keller > > 3. Re: Virgin remasters > From: Wade Gordon > > 4. Re: Virgin remasters > From: 'Matthew Sawyer' > > 5. Re: Virgin remasters > From: Wade Gordon > > 6. Re: Virgin remasters > From: 'Matthew Sawyer' > > 7. FW: 'Legend' details > From: Joe Shoults > 8. Ghost Dad in Spanish > From: 'vic rek' > > 9. music of the 21st century > From: Liondream@a... > 10. Re: Virgin remasters > From: 'Admin' > 11. Re: music of the 21st century > From: 'vic rek' > > 12. interesting plug > From: 'Admin' > 13. DREAMWATCHER'S TALES ONLINE > From: 'Yannick EDOM' > > 14. Re: drums in Ricochet etc. > From: 'omegatransfinito' > > 15. Re: Virgin remasters > From: Paul Fellows > > 16. OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the tree > ? > From: 'braddito' > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:06:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Wade Gordon > Subject: Re: Virgin remasters > > Hey, > > Personally I perfer the SMB. They are 20 bit > mastered > from Original Master tapes while the older virgin > releases are either 1st or second generation > masters. > Here's the rub. If you are going to replace your > set > with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because > they > are slowly but surely going out of print. For some > of > the titles you may have to settle for a used copy. > > All the best, > > Wade > --- Liondream@a... wrote: > > Personally, I got Encore because the orginal cd > > release version I had bought > > seemed so bad. Then I got Force Majeure which did > > seem a lot better to me. > > Seemed like I was hearing clarity that I hadn't > > noticed there before. So I > > would say at least get one of the albums which > would > > be one that you like to > > listen to a lot and try for yourself. Also, > because > > of the nature of the > > original material, and how good of a job the > > mastering engineer did, the > > improvement will be more pronounced for some > > releases than for others. > > > > I got some of the new Synergy releases too, and > they > > seem better to me. > > > > Generally speaking, things had to be mastered > > totally differently for lp... > > having to do with eq levels, bass dynamics and > > available length on the vinyl, > > the physics of cutting the master, etc., etc. So, > > there was a lot of eqing > > and compression for vinyl that isn't necessary for > > cds. A lot of times on the > > original cd releases what you're hearing is the > > original master for vinyl > > just repurposed for the cd release - and in the > > early days of cds, people > > didn't really know what they were doing with the > new > > medium too. > > > > Of course, now there's the issue of the new 24-bit > > cds too, yipes - it never > > ends!!! > > > > Cheers, > > > > << > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:36:57 +0100 > > From: René Brenner > > Subject: Re: Brazil. Cyclone SBM > > > > A general thing... what's up with those SBM > > remastered versions from Virgin? > > Is there a any big improvement when you compare > the > > sound of an older CD with > > a remastered one? I already thought about > replacing > > my older TD Collection > > from Virgin with the remastered versions.>>> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: > > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:18:38 -0800 > From: Kevin Keller > Subject: Re: Virgin remasters > > Wade Gordon wrote: > > > If you are going to replace your set > > with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because > they > > are slowly but surely going out of print. > > Yikes! Is there a list somewhere of which releases > where re-mastered as > SBMs? Or is there a good source for finding them or > ordering them online? > I am looking for the following SBM re-masters: > > Phaedra > Rubycon > Hyperborea > White Eagle > > Thanks. > *** > Kevin Keller > Composer and Producer - Classical Space Music > E-mail: kkproductions@e... > **** > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32395 Mail Order SBM's tom george Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32404 Re: Mail Order SBM's Wade Gordon Tue 2/26/2002 8 KB From: tom george Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:56 am Subject: Mail Order SBM's Sorry for the previous bogus message. the send button wound up under my finger. Why doesn't anyone ever mention towerrecords.com when they talk of mail order sources. they always seem to have everything in stock, they ship very quickly and their prices usually can't be beat. I highly recommend them. Tom np-Dimmu Borgir __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: David Hughes Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:51 am Subject: Thief, the video... Hello all, Found a remastered/enhanced version of the video of 'Thief' in our supermarket (Morrisons) last weekend for only £2.99... ... which inspired the following arguement/discussion at home. I'm convinced I've seen two versions of 'Thief', both with slightly different endings. The first time I saw the movie I was convinced that James Caan gets shot to bits and then the movie fades to the closing titles. In the version that I saw on Channel 4 not long ago, James Caan gets up after the gunfight and walks away into the distance. Can anyone confirm if this is true? Thanks David -- Infection Music http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk http://www.mp3.com/tbassuk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32401 Re: Thief, the video... Kevin Keller Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB 32405 Re: Thief, the video... Rolf Elfström Tue 2/26/2002 2 KB 32408 Re: Thief, the video... scfeldman@j... Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:59 pm Subject: sbm x old cds Re: virgin remasters Hi folks, I have some of the SBMs but also a few old cds; I got them as I found them, not caring too much about sound quality. I have the old versions of white eagle, hyperborea, tangram and rubycon. Could anyone say if the SBM versions are better than the old ones of those? I'd guess so, but is the improvement so good it's worth the investment? (it IS an investment for me; as I've said before, these cds are hard to find and expensive down here in hot and damp Rio)... GJ np. KS live at klangart (a very solid Very Good, almost Excellent) > Perhaps I should check this too. Where can I see whether or not? And what > difference there is in SBM, anyway? > > John Vertical From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:14 am Subject: Re: Original Tyger Message: 18 Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 15:25:45 -0500 From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Subject: Re: Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Was the original version of the album 'Tyger', meaning no 'Vigour' and original Tyger, ever released on CD? Marcelo It certainly was. I picked up my copy on the day of release. The original sleeve in fact was blue and had the now familiar TDI logo filling the front. Roger Hartopp -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:11 am Subject: Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. Chris maybe didn't own the drums... perhaps, like in a lot of recording studios, these were one of many instruments that were sometimes lying around. After all, The Beatles didn't own the organs and pianos when they first used them in Abbey Road, and Gary Numan didn't even own the synthesizer he used when he recorded 'Tubeway Army'. Plus, after the successful sales of 'Phaedra' and 'Rubycon' I think there may well have been some spare cash left over to buy a set of drums again for 'Ricochet', and a little later, for 'Stratosfear'. The acoustic drums are used for part 1, the looped ones on side 2... But I may be wrong... :-) Roger Hartopp Message: 13 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:42:18 +0200 From: 'John Vertical' Subject: Re: Re: drums in Ricochet etc. >Yes, we're quite certain. Most of the drums are a studio addition, the >rest are loops used in concert. You can easily tell which are which, >even without the boot. And they are real acoustic drums, BTW. So now they're simultaneously just loops and real acoustic drums...? And is it then just a legend that Chris sold his drums after GD? John Vertical -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32400 Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. John Vertical Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB 32416 Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. gmroger Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB 32406 Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. Janet Wojtecki Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB 32418 Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. John Vertical Wed 2/27/2002 3 KB 32420 Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. gmroger Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. >Plus, after the successful sales of 'Phaedra' and 'Rubycon' I think there >may well have been some spare cash left over to buy a set of drums again >for >'Ricochet', and a little later, for 'Stratosfear'. I don't think my sleeve instrument list for Stratosfear lists any drums? >The acoustic drums are used for part 1, the looped ones on side 2... Yep, I also for quite a long time though that the drums on Part 2 are looped - then I heard the original version which appears on Tangerine Tree Vol.7 (I guess I was the first leaf wo got his CDs) and it clearly has no looping. It's a pretty good drumming by Chris, with alternating monotonic sections and rabid bubbling slashes.. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32416 Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. gmroger Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB From: Kevin Keller Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Thief, the video... David Hughes wrote: > I'm convinced I've seen two versions of 'Thief', both with slightly different > endings. The first time I saw the movie I was convinced that James Caan gets > shot to bits and then the movie fades to the closing titles. In the version that > I saw on Channel 4 not long ago, James Caan gets up after the gunfight and walks > away into the distance. I'm only aware of the ending with Caan walking away into the distance. -- Kevin Keller Composer and Producer - Classical Space Music E-mail: kkproductions@e... **** Kevin Keller Trio Live at Morrison Planetarium, Golden Gate Park, SF Sunday, March 24 at 8 PM Advance tickets now on sale at http://www.kevinkeller.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: quarlie@a... Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:50 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] virgin remasters In a message dated 2/26/02 1:06:55 AM, johnvertical@h... writes: >Perhaps I should check this too. Where can I see whether or not? And what >difference there is in SBM, anyway? The easiest way to tell is that the covers on the original CD versions have grey borders around them with 'TANGERINE DREAM' and the album title in block letters, like this: http://www.tangerinedream.de/samples/img/rubycon.jpg The SBM versions have no such borders and (I believe) are identical to the LP covers. Also, the SBMs should say 'remastered' and/or 'super bit mapping' on the back somewhere, although I can't verify this because I'm at school and my CDs are at home. --Daniel NP: Apoptygma Berzerk - Harmonizer Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32414 Re: virgin remasters braddito Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:58 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tangerine Dream Ice Cream There's a Publix here in Huntsville too. I never shop there, so I have no clue if they carry TD-cream or not. James > -----Original Message----- > From: E Neal Frost [mailto:strat95@b...] > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 6:17 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com; tangerinedream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Tangerine Dream Ice Cream > > > Hello All, > > I know it has been several weeks since this was discussed, > however, my wife > has just returned from the market with a half gallon of > Tangerine Dream Ice > Cream. This is the Grocery store's own label ice cream, kinda like the > generic brand: > > Publix (The name of the local market) Premium Lite Ice Cream > 'Tangerine Dream: Light Vanilla Ice Cream with Luscious > Tangerine Sauce. > Swirled in and Sprinkled with Rich Chocolate Chunks.' > > So, for the people in Florida, or the Atlanta, GA areas, rush > right out to > your local Publix Supermarket and get some. It is really quite good. > > Just had to share....... > Neal > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Wade Gordon Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Mail Order SBM's The SBM's are available at towerrecords.comlm but they are a little more expensive than cdnow or amazon. They also only have a few of them. The cheapest place for new one's is cdnow.com or amazon. If you don't mind them used I suggest you try ebay. You could probably get them for about 8 bucks a piece. Wade -- tom george wrote: > > --- tadream@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: > > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > There are 16 messages in this issue. > > > > Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: Wade Gordon > > > > 2. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: Kevin Keller > > > > 3. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: Wade Gordon > > > > 4. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: 'Matthew Sawyer' > > > > 5. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: Wade Gordon > > > > 6. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: 'Matthew Sawyer' > > > > 7. FW: 'Legend' details > > From: Joe Shoults > > > 8. Ghost Dad in Spanish > > From: 'vic rek' > > > > 9. music of the 21st century > > From: Liondream@a... > > 10. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: 'Admin' > > 11. Re: music of the 21st century > > From: 'vic rek' > > > > 12. interesting plug > > From: 'Admin' > > 13. DREAMWATCHER'S TALES ONLINE > > From: 'Yannick EDOM' > > > > 14. Re: drums in Ricochet etc. > > From: 'omegatransfinito' > > > > 15. Re: Virgin remasters > > From: Paul Fellows > > > > 16. OT UK fans needing blank CDR's for the > tree > > ? > > From: 'braddito' > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:06:46 -0800 (PST) > > From: Wade Gordon > > Subject: Re: Virgin remasters > > > > Hey, > > > > Personally I perfer the SMB. They are 20 bit > > mastered > > from Original Master tapes while the older virgin > > releases are either 1st or second generation > > masters. > > Here's the rub. If you are going to replace your > > set > > with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you because > > they > > are slowly but surely going out of print. For > some > > of > > the titles you may have to settle for a used copy. > > > > All the best, > > > > Wade > > --- Liondream@a... wrote: > > > Personally, I got Encore because the orginal cd > > > release version I had bought > > > seemed so bad. Then I got Force Majeure which > did > > > seem a lot better to me. > > > Seemed like I was hearing clarity that I hadn't > > > noticed there before. So I > > > would say at least get one of the albums which > > would > > > be one that you like to > > > listen to a lot and try for yourself. Also, > > because > > > of the nature of the > > > original material, and how good of a job the > > > mastering engineer did, the > > > improvement will be more pronounced for some > > > releases than for others. > > > > > > I got some of the new Synergy releases too, and > > they > > > seem better to me. > > > > > > Generally speaking, things had to be mastered > > > totally differently for lp... > > > having to do with eq levels, bass dynamics and > > > available length on the vinyl, > > > the physics of cutting the master, etc., etc. > So, > > > there was a lot of eqing > > > and compression for vinyl that isn't necessary > for > > > cds. A lot of times on the > > > original cd releases what you're hearing is the > > > original master for vinyl > > > just repurposed for the cd release - and in the > > > early days of cds, people > > > didn't really know what they were doing with the > > new > > > medium too. > > > > > > Of course, now there's the issue of the new > 24-bit > > > cds too, yipes - it never > > > ends!!! > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > << > > Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:36:57 +0100 > > > From: René Brenner > > > Subject: Re: Brazil. Cyclone SBM > > > > > > A general thing... what's up with those SBM > > > remastered versions from Virgin? > > > Is there a any big improvement when you compare > > the > > > sound of an older CD with > > > a remastered one? I already thought about > > replacing > > > my older TD Collection > > > from Virgin with the remastered versions.>>> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: > > > mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > > http://sports.yahoo.com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:18:38 -0800 > > From: Kevin Keller > > > Subject: Re: Virgin remasters > > > > Wade Gordon wrote: > > > > > If you are going to replace your set > > > with SMB's I would hurry up if I were you > because > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com From: Rolf Elfström Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:35 pm Subject: Re: Thief, the video... >I'm convinced I've seen two versions of 'Thief', both with slightly different >endings. The first time I saw the movie I was convinced that James Caan gets >shot to bits and then the movie fades to the closing titles. In the >version that >I saw on Channel 4 not long ago, James Caan gets up after the gunfight and >walks >away into the distance. > >Can anyone confirm if this is true? > >Thanks > David I know there is a 'Director's Cut' available of 'Thief' so two versions exist but I sorry to say I haven't seen either so I don't know what the differences are. Rolf From: 'Janet Wojtecki' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. For what it's worth, I was at the Croydon 75 gig and can absolutely confirm that there was NO drum kit on stage. In fact only the day previously at the London Audio Fair , TD were demonstrating looping and had us in the audience creating sounds for them. Chris Wojtecki ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Vertical' To: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. > >Plus, after the successful sales of 'Phaedra' and 'Rubycon' I think there > >may well have been some spare cash left over to buy a set of drums again > >for > >'Ricochet', and a little later, for 'Stratosfear'. > > > I don't think my sleeve instrument list for Stratosfear lists any drums? > > > >The acoustic drums are used for part 1, the looped ones on side 2... > > > Yep, I also for quite a long time though that the drums on Part 2 are looped > - then I heard the original version which appears on Tangerine Tree Vol.7 (I > guess I was the first leaf wo got his CDs) and it clearly has no looping. > It's a pretty good drumming by Chris, with alternating monotonic sections > and rabid bubbling slashes.. > > John Vertical > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: atye@a... Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: SBM Logos scan Click here: http://members.aol.com/atye/Logos_SBM.jpg Here's a scan of the back cover of the Logos SBM version CD. Notice the top left (TD Definitive Edition) and the SBM logo under the barcode on the right. The front cover is the same Logos live pic used everywhere. Hope this helps.... ATYE http://members.aol.com/atye/Logos_SBM.jpg [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: scfeldman@j... Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Thief, the video... I once posted the differences to this list in minute detail. I searched http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/messages, though, and damned if I can find it. Basically, there are two differences: 1) near the beginning, Caan talks to some guy at a boat dock (this scene seemed inane and purposeless to me), and 2) he only says 'Get out' softly to his wife rather than screaming it first. Steven Feldman On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:35:07 +0100 Rolf =?iso-8859-1?Q?Elfstr=F6m?= writes: > > >I'm convinced I've seen two versions of 'Thief', both with slightly > different > >endings. The first time I saw the movie I was convinced that James > Caan gets > >shot to bits and then the movie fades to the closing titles. In the > > >version that > >I saw on Channel 4 not long ago, James Caan gets up after the > gunfight and > >walks > >away into the distance. > > > >Can anyone confirm if this is true? > > > >Thanks > > David > > I know there is a 'Director's Cut' available of 'Thief' > so two versions exist but I sorry to say I haven't seen > either so I don't know what the differences are. > > Rolf > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'convention24' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:34 pm Subject: Tyger)CD gold disc). Thank you very much for your Genial help, thouroughly appreciatd,i appreciated your knowledgeable help,Tangerine Dream- Without doubt,the GREATEST of all time. NP/ Royal albert hall 1975, Probably the GREATEST of all time. Best regards CJ From: 'horrod6' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:48 pm Subject: [tree] A million thanks The orgasmic noise coming from Scotland is me, listening to the first batch in the Tangerine Tree. In fact, I've been so immersed in the CDs for the last week that I have been remiss in posting this so late. But better late than never. Thanks to everybody involved in the mastering and production of the disks. Thanks to the chain of supply, and especially Greg, who was a miracle of speed. Thanks to Joe for organising it. Thanks to everybody who contributed to the gorgeous artwork. And a million, million thanks to Heiko for having the idea and starting the ball rolling. LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32411 Re: [tree] A million thanks Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Feb 26, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A million thanks just plain evil evil I tell you precious precious disks must have precious precious disks :--( Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'horrod6' To: Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:48 PM Subject: [tadream] [tree] A million thanks > The orgasmic noise coming from Scotland is me, listening to the first batch > in the Tangerine Tree. In fact, I've been so immersed in the CDs for the > last week that I have been remiss in posting this so late. But better late > than never. > > Thanks to everybody involved in the mastering and production of the disks. > Thanks to the chain of supply, and especially Greg, who was a miracle of > speed. > Thanks to Joe for organising it. > Thanks to everybody who contributed to the gorgeous artwork. > > And a million, million thanks to Heiko for having the idea and starting the > ball rolling. > > LnH > > Marion > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Marcelo Gutierrez' Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Rubycon SACD Thanks Duncan, Ijust bought a SACD player, Rubycon will be my first SACD. > i got my copy of rubycon SACD from www.eil.com > it sounds great when played on the correct equipement :-) > > Duncan > --- In tadream@y..., 'Marcelo Gutierrez' wrote: > > I know that some of the list members have got the SACD edition of > Rubycon, > > can anyone tell me where they got it from? > > > > Thanks > > > > Marcelo > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 3:38 am Subject: 'Speed' >John Vertical said... >PS: I just bought Antique Dreams - could someone explain what is the >main sequence of Speed (Dragon) doing at the beginning of Calymba >Caly? Something reeks here... Calymba Caly on the CD is probably the most faithful to the actual concerts than any other track on the CD. I wish they'd included the whole 'speed' track because I prefer it over the released Speed version. I wrote a 3 page treatsie about Antique Dreams. If you want, I can e-mail it to you. Contact me off-list (feldon @ feldoncentral.com). From: 'braddito' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:44 am Subject: Re: virgin remasters The remastered versions do just have replicas of the original LP covers with no border, and look much better IMO. I also had some of the first issue CD's but have now upgraded all my collection to the SBM standard as I'm sure the sound is better. Castle Communications also remastered the early albums (EM through to Atem including Green Desert) with replica cover art - IMO they are also worth getting. Toby > The SBM versions have no such borders and (I believe) are identical to the LP > covers. Also, the SBMs should say 'remastered' and/or 'super bit mapping' on > the back somewhere> --Daniel > NP: Apoptygma Berzerk - Harmonizer From: 'John Vertical' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:32 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: virgin remasters >The remastered versions do just have replicas of the original LP >covers with no border, and look much better IMO. I also had some of >the first issue CD's but have now upgraded all my collection to the >SBM standard as I'm sure the sound is better. > >Castle Communications also remastered the early albums (EM through to >Atem including Green Desert) with replica cover art - IMO they are >also worth getting. > >Toby In that case, almost all of my classic TD albums would be remastered versions. Only with the exception of Logos and Hyperborea, which are CDR copies from the original releases owned by friends... Do the remasters actually sound any way different from the originals? John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'gmroger' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:34 am Subject: Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. > I don't think my sleeve instrument list for Stratosfear lists any drums? Look again and it mentions 'percussion' - on its own, not mentioning 'digital', 'electronic' or whatever. Percussion can include drums, and you can hear these on 'Stratosfear' (like a continual drum roll) and on 'Invisible Limits' (a drum-build up before the chord crash). I believe this was the last time Chris added real drums to a TD album, unless you believe that 'Green Desert' was really recorded in 1984 (according to one of the guys from Radio Massacre International)... Roger Hartopp > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:58 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) Yes...It was the first CD I ever bought... In it is what 'forced' me to finally buy a cd player back in 1987... MJ > -----Original Message----- > From: Marcelo Gutierrez [mailto:tdune@n...] > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 3:26 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) > > > Was the original version of the album 'Tyger', meaning no 'Vigour' and > original Tyger, ever released on CD? > > Marcelo > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: René Brenner > To: > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:03 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Off topic TYGER (Gold CD) > > > > do they have a 2nd one? ;) > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 10:27:37 -0800, j.gordon wrote: > > > i have a gold CD of Tyger... found in the bargin bin of a zurich HB CD > shop... > > > CHF 7... it has the 'original' lineup, not the one with Vigour... > > > > > > it is a Jive pressing (i don't know the number off the top of my head) > and has > > > black writing... to be honest, it looks dodgy, but it has the > non-funked > up > > > version of Tyger, and i figure for CHF 7, i can be a tiny > completionist... ;) > > > > > > jerome > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32419 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) j.gordon Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB From: 'John Vertical' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. >Look again and it mentions 'percussion' - on its own, not >mentioning 'digital', 'electronic' or whatever. Percussion can >include drums, and you can hear these on 'Stratosfear' (like a >continual drum roll) and on 'Invisible Limits' (a drum-build up >before the chord crash). Okay, I thought it was referring only to the gong in Invisible Limits. >I believe this was the last time Chris added real drums to a TD >album, unless you believe that 'Green Desert' was really recorded in >1984 (according to one of the guys from Radio Massacre >International)... Hmm. Since Chris was usually responsible for the rhytm, he perhaps also was the one who decided that drums would be used for FM (though he didn't play them), and Cyclone too.. Did he play them in Cyclone, or was it already Klaus Krüger? The sources claim both... John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32420 Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. gmroger Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:22 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) see, despite all the bruhaha that Tyger is a 'weak' album, or somehow inferior, such testaments as mj's show that it is a milestone, and a positive one at that, in the marchings of TD... ;) jerome --- Michael A Jean wrote: > Yes...It was the first CD I ever bought... In it is what 'forced' me to > finally buy a cd player back in 1987... > > MJ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: 'gmroger' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:28 pm Subject: Re: Drums in Ricochet etc. > Hmm. Since Chris was usually responsible for the rhytm, he perhaps also was > the one who decided that drums would be used for FM (though he didn't play > them), and Cyclone too.. Did he play them in Cyclone, or was it already > Klaus Krüger? The sources claim both... > > John Vertical Interesting point. The sleeve mentions that Chris plays 'electronic percussion' so we have to assume Klaus was given the complete job. Same goes for 'Force Majeure' although we're lacking an instrument line-up on the sleeve. But then again, this information never always tells the full story... maybe he did play drums, but Edgar told him that he couldn't have a credit as he would have to pay him more money...! ;-) Oh well. I'll look forward to my Tangerine Trees (hurry up!) Regards Roger Hartopp From: 'Robert Wear' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digest Number 1250 This is where I obtained most of the SBM discs. http://www.absound.ca/index.html They are in Canada. I have them all except for Exit. They sell them for a little over 8.00US. And yes, they do sound much better, closer to the vinyl. I ordered Rubycon on SACD from www.cduniverse for 20.95US in the paper sleeve. CD Universe also has the SBM CDs for 9.95. Robert Wear From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) From: 'j.gordon' > see, despite all the bruhaha that Tyger is a 'weak' album, or > somehow inferior, such testaments as mj's show that it is a milestone Well, that depends. Michael, did you keep your CD player after hearing Tyger? ;-) For my money that album isn't so much a milestone for the band, more a headstone. It's also, infuriatingly, the one and only album people seem to have heard of when I mention the band to non-fans. Everything is going swimmingly in the 'Blue Years' period, and then one day Edgar walks into the studio with a book of Blake poetry in one hand and Jocelyn B. Smith in the other. Chris and Paul exchange glances, and Chris does a runner shortly thereafter. Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32423 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) j.gordon Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB 32424 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) Synthhtnys@a... Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB 32428 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 2/27/2002 4 KB 32429 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 2/27/2002 4 KB 32439 Re: the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) Owens, James Thu 2/28/2002 3 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:26 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) > Everything is going swimmingly in the 'Blue Years' period, and then one day > Edgar walks into the studio with a book of Blake poetry in one hand and > Jocelyn B. Smith in the other. rumor has it, she was anything but 'in hand'... besides, even if you don't dig the singing, the music is top notch... alchemy of the heart, eh?... > Chris and Paul exchange glances, and Chris > does a runner shortly thereafter. and, since the references have taken on such a grave nature, if anything, j.b.smith was just a nail in an already crafted coffin... jerome __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 3:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) In a message dated 2/27/2002 8:27:30 AM Central Standard Time, ssaalyersjj@y... writes: > rumor has it, she was anything but 'in hand'... besides, even if you don't > dig > the singing, the music is top notch... alchemy of the heart, eh?... > > *I enjoy the instrumental passages on Tyger now quite a bit.... at the time it came out, though I don't think 'enjoy' is the word I'd use. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: tadream@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 3:52 pm Subject: New file uploaded to tadream Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the tadream group. File : /Tangerine Tree items/bernau.cue Uploaded by : bigstupidgeek Description : Cue list from Jorge for Bernau show You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files/Tangerine Tree items/bernau.cue To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, bigstupidgeek Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32625 Legend DVD Paul Fellows Sat 3/9/2002 2 KB 32631 Re: Legend DVD tangram12 Sun 3/10/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:15 pm Subject: Bernau cue sheet you'll receive an upload notification soon, if you haven't already, about Jorge's Bernau cue sheet. Here is the actual address: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files/Tangerine Tree items/bernau. cue From: 'Owens, James' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:19 pm Subject: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus If you aren't familiar with Dark Side of the Moog, it's Pete Namlook and Klaus Schulze, usually with Bill Lasswell (he's on 7). It starts with a slow DEEP bass sequence with some nice spacey effects over it. Then a nice ambient 'string' chord section comes on top along with a powerful ambient bass. After around 3 minutes some sharper effects start and some subtle voice samples. Then a techno-sequence fades in with the nice ambience still on top. It sort of feels like slowly changing from a foggy dream to a faster-paced adventure. Now the techno-bass fades into the foreground and the 'fog' clears. By now you're in track 2, but you wouldn't know unless you checked the player. Then the analogue lead picks up this really catchy ditty that becomes the main theme for the rest of the track. A drum-loop finally comes in with plenty of ambient choral sounds and rather interesting moog effects. The main theme is back then, this time with the drums. After a couple go-rounds of this and some powerful bass sounds 'techno' section ends and we fade into track 3. This track is all ambient for about is 14 minutes until that subtle bass sequence starts to fade back in. It takes a full 5 minutes to fade in full and the stronger bass sequence comes in. Now we've transitioned into track 4, but again, you'd never know unless you were watching the player. The techno-sequence starts up again, still heavily fogged with ambience. The bass is stronger this time around, and the drum loop picks up at about 1:30. After 3:00 the 'theme' comes back in. This time there's some sections where the beat drops out altogether, but it comes back in force. This stuff is everything that I wish techno was. Lively melodies AND great beats AND powerful ambience! NOT a combination you see often. To me Tracks 1-4 are sort of Part 1 of the disc. Tracks 5 and 6 are largely ambient tracks that are completely different than 'Part 1'. Picture the ambient sections of 'Phaedra' and 'Rubycon' and you get the general idea. Track 6 has a slow, pleasant piano melody that's very nice. It's sort of melancholy and introspective. All-in-all a great album. HIGHLY recommended. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32431 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Owens, James Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB 32432 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Matthew Stringer Wed 2/27/2002 5 KB 32433 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Synthhtnys@a... Wed 2/27/2002 2 KB 32434 Re: [Studio] Dark Side of the Moog 7: in defence Eric Williamson Wed 2/27/2002 3 KB 32440 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Owens, James Thu 2/28/2002 2 KB 32452 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Deb H-J Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB 32441 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Owens, James Thu 2/28/2002 3 KB 32446 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Synthhtnys@a... Thu 2/28/2002 2 KB 32459 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Antonio Nunes Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) Tyger is my least favorite. I would not go as far as to say ''weak' album, or somehow inferior'. I would say it is different and should stand on it's own merits. Which I would be hard pressed if you were to ask me what merits. I do own on CD. I do play it when I feel the need to be reminded what it sounds like. Which on the average is about once a year. Now, if this of the same quality and material as say Poland, I would say about 50 to 60 times a year. I am so glad to be a part of a group that has such wide interests. Just keeps me on my toes. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'j.gordon' To: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:22 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) > see, despite all the bruhaha that Tyger is a 'weak' album, or somehow inferior, > such testaments as mj's show that it is a milestone, and a positive one at > that, in the marchings of TD... > > ;) > > jerome > > > > --- Michael A Jean wrote: > > Yes...It was the first CD I ever bought... In it is what 'forced' me to > > finally buy a cd player back in 1987... > > > > MJ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:37 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) I am sure there was much more as that album occurred. One should not knock the socks off for trying something different. Well that was it for defending Tyger... That was my best shot. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:49 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) > From: 'j.gordon' > > > > see, despite all the bruhaha that Tyger is a 'weak' album, or > > somehow inferior, such testaments as mj's show that it is a milestone > > > Well, that depends. Michael, did you keep your CD player after hearing > Tyger? ;-) > > For my money that album isn't so much a milestone for the band, more a > headstone. It's also, infuriatingly, the one and only album people seem to > have heard of when I mention the band to non-fans. > > Everything is going swimmingly in the 'Blue Years' period, and then one day > Edgar walks into the studio with a book of Blake poetry in one hand and > Jocelyn B. Smith in the other. Chris and Paul exchange glances, and Chris > does a runner shortly thereafter. > > > Maff > _______________________________________________________ > www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru > www.tachyon-tv.co.uk > www.eclipsecafe.com > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:49 pm Subject: [antique dreams] >Calymba Caly on the CD is probably the most faithful to the actual concerts than any other track on the CD. well the thief/sorcerer track certainly sounds like the music in the movies mill valley film festival concert in november 1986.... --T _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Owens, James' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 5:42 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus I forgot to mention the SUPERB sense of space in the ambient sections. Great use of stereo and dynamics. The sounds are sharp and clear over nearly the entire range of human hearing, with cleverly applied reverb and such. You feel like you are INSIDE THE SOUND! From: 'Matthew Stringer' Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus This was the only one I couldn't get hold of, I have the rest, all very, very good. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] Sent: 27 February 2002 16:19 To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' Subject: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus If you aren't familiar with Dark Side of the Moog, it's Pete Namlook and Klaus Schulze, usually with Bill Lasswell (he's on 7). It starts with a slow DEEP bass sequence with some nice spacey effects over it. Then a nice ambient 'string' chord section comes on top along with a powerful ambient bass. After around 3 minutes some sharper effects start and some subtle voice samples. Then a techno-sequence fades in with the nice ambience still on top. It sort of feels like slowly changing from a foggy dream to a faster-paced adventure. Now the techno-bass fades into the foreground and the 'fog' clears. By now you're in track 2, but you wouldn't know unless you checked the player. Then the analogue lead picks up this really catchy ditty that becomes the main theme for the rest of the track. A drum-loop finally comes in with plenty of ambient choral sounds and rather interesting moog effects. The main theme is back then, this time with the drums. After a couple go-rounds of this and some powerful bass sounds 'techno' section ends and we fade into track 3. This track is all ambient for about is 14 minutes until that subtle bass sequence starts to fade back in. It takes a full 5 minutes to fade in full and the stronger bass sequence comes in. Now we've transitioned into track 4, but again, you'd never know unless you were watching the player. The techno-sequence starts up again, still heavily fogged with ambience. The bass is stronger this time around, and the drum loop picks up at about 1:30. After 3:00 the 'theme' comes back in. This time there's some sections where the beat drops out altogether, but it comes back in force. This stuff is everything that I wish techno was. Lively melodies AND great beats AND powerful ambience! NOT a combination you see often. To me Tracks 1-4 are sort of Part 1 of the disc. Tracks 5 and 6 are largely ambient tracks that are completely different than 'Part 1'. Picture the ambient sections of 'Phaedra' and 'Rubycon' and you get the general idea. Track 6 has a slow, pleasant piano melody that's very nice. It's sort of melancholy and introspective. All-in-all a great album. HIGHLY recommended. ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 8:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus *I've only heard four of the DSOTM series, but I have to be the naysayer here and mention that to my ears these releases sound extremely underdeveloped. Klaus is sometimes accused of aimless noodling, and I find that to be true here moreso than his solo releases. Poly Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32434 Re: [Studio] Dark Side of the Moog 7: in defence Eric Williamson Wed 2/27/2002 3 KB From: Eric Williamson Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 10:49 pm Subject: Re: [Studio] Dark Side of the Moog 7: in defence of klaus Quoting Synthhtnys@a...: > mention that to my ears these releases sound extremely underdeveloped. > Klaus is sometimes accused of aimless noodling, and I find that to be most of the time he is accused of aimless noodling, it's because the listener has a different expectation of what someone TD-related is going to do musically. i think klaus is _firmly_ in the ambient genre. and i must say that i'm so surprised that he doesn't get more props from the ambient posse. klaus is a much different animal than t.dream. the dream are definitely producers of music intended for active listening. i don't think the same thing can be said about klaus. he may noodle, but it's not aimless. i think he's acutely aware of his mood-building qualities ... as much so as robert fripp or isaac hayes. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [Studio] Dark Side of the Moog 7: in defence of klaus In a message dated 2/27/2002 4:53:43 PM Central Standard Time, erwill@s... writes: > klaus is a much different animal than t.dream. the dream are definitely > producers of music intended for active listening. i don't think the same > thing > can be said about klaus. he may noodle, but it's not aimless. i think he's > acutely aware of his mood-building qualities ... as much so as robert fripp > or > isaac hayes. > > > > Eric Williamson > www.suitandtieguy.com > *Hmmm just in case there's a misperception to what I said, I am a huge Klaus fan. In fact I consider such pieces as Crystal Lake, Totem, Blanche and many others to be among the finest pieces of electronic music ever composed. I don't particularly care for DSOTM, though. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 2:13 pm Subject: [tree] online CDR stores in USA? anyone have URLs for 'CDR Warehouse' types of sites in the US? From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 3:21 pm Subject: [tree] problems with bernau disk? and communicating with your br anchline... There is a problem with at least one branch of the tree on the Bernau CD. It seems that it was either mastered or copied at a low generation level with gaps between the songs. Please check your copy if you[ve received it yet so we can trace the flaw up the branchline for correction. Also, I recently received a complaint that a branch sent scratchy (not new) disks to a descendant. While I cannot either police or rectify this myself, I can reemphasize that you and your branchline should communicate clearly about your expectations. Be sure to clearly specify with each other: 1. CDR type or quality - gold? silver? brand? etc. 2. CDR packaging - do you pack the CDRs in jewel cases or individual cloth-paper sleeves or just stacked and padded? in a bubble-pak envelope? 3. Shipping - use a shipping method that provides tracking like UPS or FedEx? Regular postal mail? Thanks to all who have put tremendous effort into making this tree the most ambitious and successful (so far) tree project I've ever seen! JOe From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 3:40 pm Subject: RE: [tree] problems with bernau disk? and communicating with you r branchline... OH- and 2 other specific items to discuss with your branchline: 4. exactly WHAT you are trading in exchange for the Tree CDs 5. the timeline (exactly when the up and down exchanges will occur) (* NOTE: some people wait until they receive blanks from their leaves before they make the copies; I prefer to just make them all at once and send them out, regardless of when my descendants get their trades back to me) ====================================================================== So here is the 'Laundry List' of things you should clarify with your trade partners: 1. CDR type or quality standards 2. CDR packaging standards 3. Shipping standards 4. Exchange items 5. Timeline ====================================================================== Yes, there are some standards that really could go unspoken - like using brand NEW CDRs for your descendants - but it certainly won't hurt to be specific with each other. Please, everyone in the tree: if you have not yet exchanged an e-mail with ALL of your trade partners with these 5 items clarified, please do so now. This will not only clear the way for a smoother transaction between you, but will help to ensure the success of the Tangerine Tree project overall. Sincere thanks, Joe From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 6:37 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] the testament of TYGER (was Gold CD) > -----Original Message----- > > Everything is going swimmingly in the 'Blue Years' period, > and then one day > > Edgar walks into the studio with a book of Blake poetry in > one hand and > > Jocelyn B. Smith in the other. > > rumor has it, she was anything but 'in hand'... besides, even > if you don't dig > the singing, the music is top notch... alchemy of the heart, eh?... > And don't forget the INCREDIBLE instrumental section of 'London'. Also worth noting is that TD had used Blake poetry before. The 'original' vocal for 'Unicorn Theme' has words from 'The Angel' by Blake. Of course the studio chose to use a Jon Anderson overdub instead (which I LOVE) which ticked Edgar off. That could be where he got the idea for Tyger. From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 6:45 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus Keep an eye out. It shows up on ebay now and again... It may still be in a few shops new. James > -----Original Message----- > This was the only one I couldn't get hold of, I have the > rest, all very, > very good. > > Matt Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32452 Re: D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured Deb H-J Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 6:52 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus Some of the DSOMs I've heard have some aimless noodling. LB and I call this 'The Dresden Syndrome' named for 'The Dresden Performance' - a 2CD set that seems to go on and on with no building or melody or anything, not even much ambience. Just repeated sequences and drum loops. HOWEVER - Obscured by Klaus (DSOM7) does NOT suffer from this malady! It is as I described: building and moving with cool melodies, nice ambience, INDREDIBLE sound quality, and great mastering. If you've heard the others and not this one, you've missed the gem that makes the ring complete. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > > *I've only heard four of the DSOTM series, but I have to be > the naysayer here > and > mention that to my ears these releases sound extremely > underdeveloped. > Klaus is sometimes accused of aimless noodling, and I find > that to be true > here moreso than his solo releases. From: rbrown4856@a... Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 7:18 pm Subject: Steve Reich,TD Greetings All! Has anyone else read where Reich accused TD of ripping off one of his compositions and making it into Love on a Real Train?I was curious about this so I compared the two and they are incredibly simular. I hate to say it but I think Reich has a legitimate gripe.But when you think about it there are countless numbers of artists who have copied TD and got away with it.Including some former members. Rick Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32443 Re: Steve Reich,TD tom807@a... Thu 2/28/2002 3 KB 32444 Re: Steve Reich,TD tom807@a... Thu 2/28/2002 3 KB 32451 Re: Steve Reich,TD Deb H-J Thu 2/28/2002 2 KB 32445 Re: Steve Reich,TD Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 2/28/2002 4 KB 32447 Re: Steve Reich,TD Owens, James Thu 2/28/2002 3 KB 32448 Re: Steve Reich,TD odean@m... Thu 2/28/2002 2 KB 32449 Re: Steve Reich,TD michaeljean@e... Thu 2/28/2002 3 KB 32450 Re: Steve Reich,TD Joe Shoults Thu 2/28/2002 3 KB 32454 Re: Steve Reich,TD atye@a... Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB From: tom807@a... Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD In a message dated 2/28/02 2:35:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, rbrown4856@a... writes: > Greetings All! > > Has anyone else read where Reich accused TD of ripping off one of his > compositions and making it into Love on a Real Train?I was curious about > this > so I compared the two and they are incredibly simular. > I hate to say it but I think Reich has a legitimate gripe.But when you > think about it there are countless numbers of artists who have copied TD > and > got away with it.Including some former members. > > Rick Where did you (or anyone else) read this? But if it's true I think it's more of them in the same league as each other -- as far as that minimal repetitive type thing -- more than anything else. Reich 'rips off' Reich, Philip Glass, and many other of those types of composers. It's probably difficult not to! Tom MP3.com - tom807 SoundStage! The $ensible Sound [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: tom807@a... Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD In a message dated 2/28/02 2:35:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, rbrown4856@a... writes: > Greetings All! > > Has anyone else read where Reich accused TD of ripping off one of his > compositions and making it into Love on a Real Train?I was curious about > this > so I compared the two and they are incredibly simular. > I hate to say it but I think Reich has a legitimate gripe.But when you > think about it there are countless numbers of artists who have copied TD > and > got away with it.Including some former members. > > Rick Where did you (or anyone else) read this? But if it's true I think it's more of them in the same league as each other -- as far as that minimal repetitive type thing -- more than anything else. Reich 'rips off' Reich, Philip Glass, and many other of those types of composers. It's probably difficult not to! Tom MP3.com - tom807 SoundStage! The $ensible Sound [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32451 Re: Steve Reich,TD Deb H-J Thu 2/28/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD Which composition? I listen to a lot of music, and I can tell you that I hear parts of others stuff here and there once in a while. Before I could say yea that sounds like this or that, I would have to listen to it a bit. TD has influenced a lot of bands and composers. It would not be unlikely they have their influences as well. With the material TD produces, I just find it unlikely that they borrowed or stole as this post refers, from someone. I would have to listen to it, check the dates composed and find a likely way TD might have heard it to even consider that statement. I still have a problem with the ' My Sweet Lord' problem a few years back. (check your history books on this and George Harrison). Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:18 AM Subject: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD > Greetings All! > > Has anyone else read where Reich accused TD of ripping off one of his > compositions and making it into Love on a Real Train?I was curious about this > so I compared the two and they are incredibly simular. > I hate to say it but I think Reich has a legitimate gripe.But when you > think about it there are countless numbers of artists who have copied TD and > got away with it.Including some former members. > > Rick > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus In a message dated 2/28/02 11:05:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, james.owens@m... writes: << HOWEVER - Obscured by Klaus (DSOM7) does NOT suffer from this malady! It is as I described: building and moving with cool melodies, nice ambience, INDREDIBLE sound quality, and great mastering. If you've heard the others and not this one, you've missed the gem that makes the ring complete. James >> *Thanks for the tip, I'll keep an eye out for it. Poly From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 9:55 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD TD has touted Reich as one of thier sources of inspiration on several occasions. As for 'Love on a Real Train', I'd have to say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I don't see what the problem is! I supposed he could just be jealous that the average person knows the 'music from the train scene in Risky Business', and only hardcore music people have even heard of Reich, let alone know his music ('Music for ## Musicians' - see, even I can't remember the exact title...) James > -----Original Message----- > From: rbrown4856@a... [mailto:rbrown4856@a...] > > Has anyone else read where Reich accused TD of ripping off > one of his > compositions and making it into Love on a Real Train?I was > curious about this > so I compared the two and they are incredibly simular. > I hate to say it but I think Reich has a legitimate > gripe.But when you > think about it there are countless numbers of artists who > have copied TD and > got away with it.Including some former members. From: odean@m... Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 1:03 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD At 03:55 PM 2/28/02 -0600, you wrote: >I supposed he could just be jealous that the average person >knows the 'music from the train scene in Risky Business', >and only hardcore music people have even heard of Reich, >let alone know his music ('Music for ## Musicians' - see, >even I can't remember the exact title...) > >James 18 Oscar From: 'michaeljean@e...' Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 10:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD Reich's original version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS is strikingly similar to Love on a Real Train. It could be argued that one artist was inspired by another, but it would be hard to say which one influenced the other. Reich's release pre-dated Risky Business, but that's not to say it was composed before hand... Personally I hear hints of LOART as far back as Macula Transfer... MJ Original Message: ----------------- From: rbrown4856@a... Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:18:04 EST To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD Greetings All! Has anyone else read where Reich accused TD of ripping off one of his compositions and making it into Love on a Real Train?I was curious about this so I compared the two and they are incredibly simular. I hate to say it but I think Reich has a legitimate gripe.But when you think about it there are countless numbers of artists who have copied TD and got away with it.Including some former members. Rick ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:06 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD I read an interview with Riech in which this very subject was covered. He said, 'Maybe I could have sued, but I didn't' (or something close to that). If it's not enough of a big deal to him, I don't see why it would be a big deal to anyone else - unless they were simply out to discredit Edgar (not that I'm saying Rick is). J > -----Original Message----- > From: michaeljean@e... [mailto:michaeljean@e...] > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:39 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD > > > Reich's original version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS is > strikingly similar to Love on a Real Train. It could be > argued that one artist was inspired by another, but it would > be hard to say which one influenced the other. Reich's > release pre-dated Risky Business, but that's not to say it > was composed before hand... Personally I hear hints of LOART > as far back as Macula Transfer... > From: Deb H-J Date: Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:40 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD Tom: > Where did you (or anyone else) read this? > But if it's true I think it's more of them in the > same league as each other > -- as far as that minimal repetitive type thing -- > more than anything else. > Reich 'rips off' Reich, Philip Glass, and many other > of those types of > composers. It's probably difficult not to! I agree with you on this 100%! To my ear, the two pieces are similar mainly in form, and the form is one that a number of minimal composers have also copied. That they were able to blend it into a mainstream soundtrack like Risky Business is a compliment to TD. Adios, Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Deb H-J Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 12:07 am Subject: RE: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus James & Matt: > Keep an eye out. It shows up on ebay now and > again... DSOTM 7 is also available for download at Emusic.Com, along with the other albums in the series. Of course, you have to be a member to download it, but its not a bad service for a relatively new EM collector like myself. Adios, Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 12:37 am Subject: Reich Here are some thoughts on the Reich thread. For one thing Music does NOT exist in a vacuum. There is no musician that has not been influenced by someone else... This includes TD, though it may seem that there was nothing like them before, it's not entirely true. By the band members own admission they were influenced by Hendrix/Minimalists= Reich, Glass, Riley, etc. /the psychedelic rock scene/Ligeti and many others who existed before TD.... there are certainly elements here and there from all these people. What TD did was to take these elements and fuse their own sound from these elements... Nothing wrong with this process... we're talking about how music has always been made. The problem arises when you start getting to where there 's note for note lifting, and the exact same timbres used.... which is (pretty much) the case with LOART. Although I think they did have to change the version we know a bit to cover their butts. (snip) I hate to say it but I think Reich has a legitimate gripe.But when you think about it there are countless numbers of artists who have copied TD and got away with it.Including some former members. Rick (snip) *Well, as for former TD members I'm not sure how they could 'copy' a sound they had a vital part in developing... I don't think that's correct. Also the problem with mentioning people who 'copy' TD, or for that matter any style of music is this: Musicologists pretty much agree that if there was one father of rock it would be Chuck Berry... Now if no one 'copied' Chuck Berry the entire Genre of Rock would not exist... no Beatles, Stones, or for that matter (although much farther down the road.) TD... IMO the accusation of 'copying' should be used only when you're talking about note for note ripoff... because again, the entire history of music is each artist building on the structure of what came before (to varying degrees). I supposed he could just be jealous that the average person knows the 'music from the train scene in Risky Business', and only hardcore music people have even heard of Reich, let alone know his music ('Music for ## Musicians' - see, even I can't remember the exact title...) James *You may not be aware of him outside of the TD circle, but Reich looms large in the classical world... I don't think jealousy is the problem. I think it was their not asking permission. Does anyone here know the story of Reich and the 'Orb'? Reich let them sample his piece 'Electric Counterpoint' in their song 'Little fluffy clouds' ... I think it was mentioned somewhere that this was because of the TD situation. Reich's original version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS is strikingly similar to Love on a Real Train. It could be argued that one artist was inspired by another, but it would be hard to say which one influenced the other. Reich's release pre-dated Risky Business, but that's not to say it was composed before hand... Personally I hear hints of LOART as far back as Macula Transfer... MJ *But Reich had developed his minimalism FAR before TD were around. Poly Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32455 Re: Reich tom807@a... Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB 32456 Re: Reich Synthhtnys@a... Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB From: atye@a... Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 2:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Steve Reich,TD Well, I love this list for just such topics and info. I have never heard of Steve Reich and LOART is what got me started into the Tangerine Dream world back in 1983. I am listening to Reich's 'Music For 18 Musicians' as I write this and am truly amazed at the striking similarities. Of course, no musician lives in a vaccuum and there are bound to be 'similarities' or 'influences' in ANY type of music. I'd just chalk it up to 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'. Thanks for the heads up..... ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: tom807@a... Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 3:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Reich In a message dated 2/28/02 7:39:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, Synthhtnys@a... writes: > the psychedelic rock scene/Ligeti and many others who existed before TD.... > Should Ligeti have sued TD for ripping him off for the intro of Rubycon Pt. 2? The similarities between it and Legeti's 1967 Requiem are unmistakable :-) Tom MP3.com - tom807 SoundStage! The $ensible Sound [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 5:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Reich In a message dated 2/28/2002 9:12:40 PM Central Standard Time, tom807@a... writes: > Should Ligeti have sued TD for ripping him off for the intro of Rubycon Pt. > 2? The similarities between it and Legeti's 1967 Requiem are unmistakable > :-) > Tom > *You see!!! That's exactly where the problem lies! Lawyers! Suits! Nobody should sue anybody... eventually time weeds out those with nothing original to say anyway... thus leaving both Ligeti AND TD! ;-) Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Kevin Keller Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 6:51 am Subject: Tribute to Rubycon at SF Planetarium Concert If you live in the San Francisco area, you and your family won’t want to miss this exciting opportunity to hear live music under the stars of the Morrison Planetarium. Well known to Bay Area audiences for their blend of beautiful music and state-of-the-art visuals, cellist Tania Simoncelli, bassist Mark Fassett, and keyboardist Kevin Keller return to the dome with an exciting new show and a new CD. The show also features a tribute to the Tangerine Dream classic 'Rubycon'. Kevin Keller Trio Across the Sky - CD Release Concert Sunday, March 24 8 PM Morrison Planetarium Golden Gate Park, San Francisco Tickets: $12.50 advance/$15 door Follow this link to purchase tickets online http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=sfbay&query=detail&event=298319 'Kevin Keller has ascended like a rising moon to assume a prominent place in the space music firmament…with a beautifully individualized sound.' -Derk Richardson/SF Bay Guardian *** Free Music at http://www.kevinkeller.com/listen.html *** Please stop by the Listening Station to hear our new single 'Across the Sky II', which is available as a free MP3. We are also pleased to announce that The Mask of Memory is now available through Amazon.com For more news, please visit http://www.kevinkeller.com/look.html Thank you for your support and encouragement -- Kevin Keller Composer and Producer - Classical Space Music E-mail: kkproductions@e... **** Kevin Keller Trio Live at Morrison Planetarium, Golden Gate Park, SF Sunday, March 24 at 8 PM Advance tickets now on sale at http://www.kevinkeller.com From: 'braddito' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 11:39 am Subject: Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? I listened to some of the tracks on the TDI site and decided to buy Canyon Dreams and Antique Dreams. I intend to buy some more next payday. Both albums sound great on what I've heard so far, but I notice that Canyon Dreams includes a note that additional tracks are by Jerome. That's not a problem, but for interests sake, I'd be grateful if someone could tell me which tracks are from the original Franke/Froese/Haslinger recording. Toby Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32460 Re: Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? Matthew Sawyer Fri 3/1/2002 3 KB 32461 Re: Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? michaeljean@e... Fri 3/1/2002 3 KB 32462 Re: Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? Owens, James Fri 3/1/2002 3 KB 32463 Canyon Dreams - thanks for original track info braddito Fri 3/1/2002 3 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 11:45 am Subject: Re: [tadream] D:[Studio] Dark Side of the Moon 7: Obscured by Klaus Matthew Stringer wrote: > > This was the only one I couldn't get hold of, I have the rest, all very, > very good. Synth Music Direct http://www.synthmusicdirect.com seems to have DSOTM7 in stock. Antonio From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 11:50 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? From: 'braddito' > Both albums sound great on what I've heard so far, but I notice that > Canyon Dreams includes a note that additional tracks are by Jerome. > That's not a problem, but for interests sake, I'd be grateful if > someone could tell me which tracks are from the original > Franke/Froese/Haslinger recording. Just the last one, Rocky Mountain Hawk, which iirc was tacked onto the album when it was re-released. http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=A81420r6ac48n Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com From: 'michaeljean@e...' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 2:06 pm Subject: RE: Re: [tadream] Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? Colorado Dawn was not on the original release either... That track is also by Jerome... MJ Original Message: ----------------- From: Matthew Sawyer matthewsawyer@c... Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:50:48 -0000 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [tadream] Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? From: 'braddito' > Both albums sound great on what I've heard so far, but I notice that > Canyon Dreams includes a note that additional tracks are by Jerome. > That's not a problem, but for interests sake, I'd be grateful if > someone could tell me which tracks are from the original > Franke/Froese/Haslinger recording. Just the last one, Rocky Mountain Hawk, which iirc was tacked onto the album when it was re-released. http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=A81420r6ac48n Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 4:10 pm Subject: RE: Re: [tadream] Canyon Dreams - which tracks are original ? Just to clarify: Originally Canyon Dreams was available only as a video or Laserdisc. This version contained 6 tracks including a longer 'Shadow Flyer': Shadow Flyer (video version) Canyon Carver Water's Gift Canyon Voices Sudden Revelation A Matter Of Time Purple Nightfall is also on the video as the music over the closing credits, but it is not titled on the video cover. The original CD release (On Miramar records) contained the same tracks as the video, except that Purple Nightfall was now given a title, Shadow Flyer was edited, and Colorado Dawn (by Jerome) was added. Recently TDI re-released the CD with the addition of 'Rocky Mountain Hawk' (also by Jerome). James > -----Original Message----- > From: michaeljean@e... [mailto:michaeljean@e...] > > Colorado Dawn was not on the original release either... That > track is also by Jerome... > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Matthew Sawyer matthewsawyer@c... > > Just the last one, Rocky Mountain Hawk, which iirc was tacked > onto the album > when it was re-released. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32463 Canyon Dreams - thanks for original track info braddito Fri 3/1/2002 3 KB From: 'braddito' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 4:41 pm Subject: Canyon Dreams - thanks for original track info Thanks to all for clearing this up for me. Toby --- In tadream@y..., 'Owens, James' wrote: > Just to clarify: > Originally Canyon Dreams was available only as a video or Laserdisc. > This version contained 6 tracks including a longer 'Shadow Flyer': > > Shadow Flyer (video version) > Canyon Carver > Water's Gift > Canyon Voices > Sudden Revelation > A Matter Of Time > > Purple Nightfall is also on the video as the music over the closing > credits, but it is not titled on the video cover. > > The original CD release (On Miramar records) contained the same tracks > as the video, except that Purple Nightfall was now given a title, > Shadow Flyer was edited, and Colorado Dawn (by Jerome) was added. > > Recently TDI re-released the CD with the addition of 'Rocky Mountain > Hawk' (also by Jerome). > > James > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: michaeljean@e... [mailto:michaeljean@e...] > > > > Colorado Dawn was not on the original release either... That > > track is also by Jerome... > > > Original Message: > > ----------------- > > From: Matthew Sawyer matthewsawyer@c... > > > > Just the last one, Rocky Mountain Hawk, which iirc was tacked > > onto the album > > when it was re-released. From: 'John Vertical' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 4:55 pm Subject: TD Techno Sampler Today a friend of mine who likes 'generic' techno heard me play some RealAudio samples from Antique Dreams on a school computer. He asked if I could copy those for him, and I agreed. So what kind of a sampler would you suggest I'd make? Here's the 1st version of the tracklist: Calymba Caly Gaudi Park Network 23 Phaedra of Nottingham Le Parc Cool Breeze of Brighton Sorcerer & Thief Central Park Choronzon Dolphin Dance Convention of the 24 Speed sum '71'17 Source material: Exit White Eagle Logos Hyperborea Poland Firestarter Le Parc Dream Roots Collection Underwater Sunlight Livemiles Antique Dreams So could anyone suggest a nice 1-disk sampler? If you can't think of anything by Sunday, don't even bother... Also, I'm not able to make excerpts of longer pieces so they're out too. John Vertical PS (while I'm at it), one last word about the Virgin remasters: it's amazing how sloppy the information in Exit is. It misspells half of the pieces, lacks track lenghts (as does WE) and claims that it had Baumann instead of Schomelling (ditto for Tangram). The last one especially fooled me for a long time! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32466 Re: TD Techno Sampler Owens, James Fri 3/1/2002 3 KB 32468 Re: TD Techno Sampler maggior Fri 3/1/2002 4 KB 32469 Re: TD Techno Sampler j.gordon Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB 32473 Re: TD Techno Sampler Adele Outland Sat 3/2/2002 2 KB 32474 Re: TD Techno Sampler Synthhtnys@a... Sat 3/2/2002 2 KB 32476 Re: TD Techno Sampler Admin Sat 3/2/2002 3 KB 32478 Re: TD Techno Sampler John Vertical Sat 3/2/2002 3 KB 32479 Re: TD Techno Sampler Eric Williamson Sat 3/2/2002 2 KB 32480 Re: TD Techno Sampler John Vertical Sat 3/2/2002 3 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 5:14 pm Subject: music for 18 musicians i think it was recorded in 1978 if it matters _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] TD Techno Sampler I'd suggest 'Dominion' from Logos Horizon from Poland (long but it has two good beat-oriented sections) 'Thief Yang and the Tangram Seal' if you can get it. Nearly anything off of Dream Mixes 3. Cinnamon Road and/or No Man's Land from Hyperborea I agree completely with Central Park, Streethawk, Speed, Phaedra of Nottingham, Choronzon, and Dolphin Dance. I think Cool Breeze of Brighton is a wonderful track, but I wonder about its interest to someone who is a fan of 'generic' techno... James > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vertical [mailto:johnvertical@h...] > So what kind of a sampler would you suggest I'd make? Here's > the 1st version > of the tracklist: > Calymba Caly > Gaudi Park > Network 23 > Phaedra of Nottingham > Le Parc > Cool Breeze of Brighton > Sorcerer & Thief > Central Park > Choronzon > Dolphin Dance > Convention of the 24 > Speed > sum '71'17 > > Source material: > Exit > White Eagle > Logos > Hyperborea > Poland > Firestarter > Le Parc > Dream Roots Collection > Underwater Sunlight > Livemiles > Antique Dreams From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:04 pm Subject: Stravinsky: Symphony in Three Movements was RE: [tadream] Reich speaking of influences... I am SO lucky to have an awesome FM classical radio station here in town: www.wclv.com They have a handy-dandy playlist archive online, so I was able to go back and look up a Stravinsky concert I heard a while back. I'm telling you, this was written for some movie in 1945 by Igor Stravinsky, adn I swear parts of it sound like Berlin School electronica! I mean he makes the classical orchestral instruments produce straneg electronic-like effects in this. I was blown away! I even sat in my driveway til it was over so I could find out who it was. If you are interested in hearing what sorts of classical music could have influenced the likes of Froese, Stockhausen, Carlos, etc., definitely check out this symphony! JOe > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] > Here are some thoughts on the Reich thread. > For one thing Music does NOT exist in a vacuum. There is no > musician that has > not been influenced by someone else... This includes TD, > though it may seem Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32472 Re: Stravinsky: Symphony in Three Movements was Deb H-J Sat 3/2/2002 2 KB From: 'maggior' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 7:49 pm Subject: Re: TD Techno Sampler I think you have a good list so far. Here are some additions you might consider: Tutankhama from Tang-go Voxel Ux from Quinoa (This song is great) Yaraslaw Station from Transiberia (has a bit of a trace flavor) Stratosfear 1995 from Tyranny of Beauty (you can use this as a way to bring in more classic TD later by introducing Stratosfear) 21st Century Common Man (I and II, or just II) Central Park is a must! Good to see that on the list. These aren't exactly my favorite TD tracks (I've grown to like the 70's and early 80's stuff the most), but they are some of the more accessible ones which I think would appeal to someone who likes techno. These tracks are also short :-). Rich Maggio --- In tadream@y..., 'John Vertical' wrote: > Today a friend of mine who likes 'generic' techno heard me play some > RealAudio samples from Antique Dreams on a school computer. He asked if I > could copy those for him, and I agreed. > > So what kind of a sampler would you suggest I'd make? Here's the 1st version > of the tracklist: > Calymba Caly > Gaudi Park > Network 23 > Phaedra of Nottingham > Le Parc > Cool Breeze of Brighton > Sorcerer & Thief > Central Park > Choronzon > Dolphin Dance > Convention of the 24 > Speed > sum '71'17 > > Source material: > Exit > White Eagle > Logos > Hyperborea > Poland > Firestarter > Le Parc > Dream Roots Collection > Underwater Sunlight > Livemiles > Antique Dreams > > So could anyone suggest a nice 1-disk sampler? If you can't think of > anything by Sunday, don't even bother... Also, I'm not able to make excerpts > of longer pieces so they're out too. > > John Vertical > > PS (while I'm at it), one last word about the Virgin remasters: it's amazing > how sloppy the information in Exit is. It misspells half of the pieces, > lacks track lenghts (as does WE) and claims that it had Baumann instead of > Schomelling (ditto for Tangram). The last one especially fooled me for a > long time! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32469 Re: TD Techno Sampler j.gordon Fri 3/1/2002 2 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 8:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler --- maggior wrote: > 21st Century Common Man (I and II, or just II) JUST wanted to point out the continued surfacing, like the prodigal son, of tyger tracks in casual tadream list conversation... ;) jerome __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: quarlie@a... Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 9:57 pm Subject: Re: EMusic (was DSOTM 7) In a message dated 2/28/02 7:10:16 PM, dhj4@y... writes: >DSOTM 7 is also available for download at Emusic.Com, >along with the other albums in the series. Of course, >you have to be a member to download it, but its not a >bad service for a relatively new EM collector like >myself. I think EMusic is a great service. You can get tons and tons of music in unrestricted MP3 format, legally, for $10-20 a month (depending on how long you sign up for). Among the labels they carry that would be of interest to EM fans are Fax (Pete Namlook, Atom Heart, DSOTM?), Earache (Mortiis) and Cleopatra/Hypnotic (Anubian Lights, Delerium, Dilate). If you like prog-rock they also have Metal Blade (Spock's Beard, King's X, Transatlantic, Fates Warning...), and if you like trance or ambient, there's Blue Room (Total Eclipse, Juno Reactor). If you have diverse tastes you'll find all kinds of stuff to download there. The only major drawback is that the MP3s are encoded at only 128kbps. (Sorry if this sounded like an ad!) --Daniel NP: Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle-Earth From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Mar 1, 2002 11:33 pm Subject: KS 'Jubilee Edition' Well, Klaus didn't sell the first time. New lower price, shorter auction. I really need to sell this. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1520419007 Ends Tuesday, 8:03 PM, GMT. Sorry for the spam. Perhaps you want this. Ciao -- Mark From: Deb H-J Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 1:07 am Subject: Re: Stravinsky: Symphony in Three Movements was RE: [tadream] Reich Joe: << If you are interested in hearing what sorts of classical music could have influenced the likes of Froese, Stockhausen, Carlos, etc., definitely check out this symphony!>> Glad to hear you had such a good experience with Stravinsky. In my opinion, he is THE MAN!!!! I agree that his influence shows up in TD work. Also that of Prokofiev. I also credit my love and knowledge of classical music from having grown up with a good university-based classical station nearby (WUOT), that introduced me to dozen of composers I have known and loved for decades. Adios, Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports.yahoo.com From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 4:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler All you need is Dream Mixes (one). This seems to turn on the dance/techno crowd that I've come in contact with. 8-) Dell All IMO of course. As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 4:54 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler In a message dated 3/1/2002 10:28:30 PM Central Standard Time, outlanda60@h... writes: > All you need is Dream Mixes (one). This seems to turn on the dance/techno > crowd that I've come in contact with. 8-) Dell > > All IMO of course. > *I've had great luck turning them on with DM3. Although if they Like Chill out or Downtempo Rubycon still rules. In fact if anyone here reads the English magazine Future Music. They had a chill out special issue a couple of months ago where they mentioned Rubycon in glowing terms as being one of the great albums ever and a source for chill out music... Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Eric Williamson' Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 4:58 am Subject: i just made a new track this afternoon, for those TD-enamoured. I just put this track down this afternoon ... a structured improvisation clocking in at 8 minutes or so. NO OVERDUBS. I may add some later, though ... the Hammond/Leslies were crying 'play me, puleeease!!!' today. it's called 'Every time i say i love you, you say bye'. the location is http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sounds/everytime.mp3 i _kinda_ ripped the bassline offa _Encore_ ... how's that for TD content? Oh yeah, and the bass sound was an attempt to imitate a late-70s Franke sequenced-synth sound. feel free to comment/slam/compliment. or ignore. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com From: 'Admin' Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 5:14 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler Read Future Music? Who here doesn't? I look forward to it every month, the cd's and the mag. Right you are on the article a few issues past. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler > In a message dated 3/1/2002 10:28:30 PM Central Standard Time, > outlanda60@h... writes: > > > > All you need is Dream Mixes (one). This seems to turn on the dance/techno > > crowd that I've come in contact with. 8-) Dell > > > > All IMO of course. > > > > *I've had great luck turning them on with DM3. > Although if they Like Chill out or Downtempo Rubycon still rules. > In fact if anyone here reads the English magazine Future Music. > They had a chill out special issue a couple of months ago where > they mentioned Rubycon in glowing terms as being one of the great > albums ever and a source for chill out music... > Poly > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Ken Beal Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 5:25 am Subject: ISO: Craig Chambers Howdy All... Craig Chambers if you are out there please email me comcerning a trade we transacted in January of 2000. TIA, Ken From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 8:57 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler Thanks for the suggestions so far. But they unfortunately haven't been of almost any use. I don't have most of those pieces you've been listing... My post-Franke collection is still very ascetic even though I only lack two of the older albums. I perhaps didn't explain the 'Source material' list well enough. I meant that it has the albums which I can use in making the compilation. So no DM 1 or 3, nor Quinoa or anything like that. This list Exit White Eagle Logos Hyperborea Poland Firestarter Le Parc Dream Roots Collection Underwater Sunlight Livemiles Antique Dreams is what technoish I have from TD. You can make suggestions outside the list, too - but note that of the latter stuff I only have Lily, Melrose, 220V, GC and MP, which I don't think have anything that suits. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'Eric Williamson' Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 9:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler looking at that list, i'd just give them Poland in it's entirety. it's got the 909 drums, the groovy sections, the sequences, and the last 4 minutes of the album are _intense_ (and in the phrygian mode, the favoured scale of most acid house musicians). it's also a very dark album. this quality may or may not appeal to you but is almost essential for 'selling' TD to a techno fan. most of the time i play the 'happy' (read: major key) TD stuff, someone asks me what IMAX soundtrack i'm playing. when i play the 'dark' (read: minor key) TD ... they ask me ass-kicking groovy shit i'm listening to. i love it all, though ... regardless of what my co-workers feel. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 9:46 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD Techno Sampler >looking at that list, i'd just give them Poland in it's entirety. > >it's got the 909 drums, the groovy sections, the sequences, and the last 4 >minutes of the album are _intense_ (and in the phrygian mode, the favoured >scale >of most acid house musicians) I could do that later, separately. Good idea though. >it's also a very dark album. And also last one of them.. why did they have to sell their organs later? >this quality may or may not appeal to you but is >almost essential for 'selling' TD to a techno fan. > >most of the time i play the 'happy' (read: major key) TD stuff, someone >asks me >what IMAX soundtrack i'm playing. > >when i play the 'dark' (read: minor key) TD ... they ask me ass-kicking >groovy >shit i'm listening to. I've heard myself quite various comments about TD... Someone thought that Rubycon was something I've slacked up myshelf; someone then said that Dreamtime sounds like a soundtrack for a B-class porn movie (looks like he knows the genre ;-), most people couldn't even identify Alpha Centauri as music, Convention of the 24 got titled 'Star Trek Music', intros of Thru Metamorphic Rocks and Ricochet I were commented ironically as ''terrific''(yes, double apostrophes), piano solo in Pergamon had the following critic: 'well, I suppose you *could* call this music' and the usual comment (about eg. Exit or Coldwater Canyon) has been 'Okay... just what is this? Sounds really weird.' John Vertical np: Yucatan - actually not as lousy as I first thought. I like the wide percussion variety. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32490 Re: TD Techno Sampler Eric Williamson Sat 3/2/2002 2 KB From: Date: Sat Mar 2, 2002 10:58 am Subject: items for sale !!! Hello, I have following ASHRA CD`s for sale: (all items are new and unplayed, mostly still sealed) - @shra Vol. 2 (Live Japan 1997) / EURO 19 - @shra Vol. 1 (Live in Japan 1997) / EURO 19 - The Making of ... (Correlations) (3CD Box) / EURO 40 - Gin Rose (w/Klaus Schulze - live London 2000) / EURO 18 - Friendship (w/Klaus Schulze) / EURO 18 - The Best of Private Tapes (2CD) EURO 25 - Sauce Hollandaise (Live at KLEM DAY 1997) / EURO 18 - Belle Alliance (Re-Release Spalax) / EURO 18 - Correlations (Re-Releases Spalax) / EURO 18 - Blackouts (Re-Releases Spalax) / EURO 18 - Video: Die Mulde (VHS - Pal) Manuel Göttsching Solo / EURO 20 - Video: Live at Burg Herzberg (VHS - Pal ) Ashra Live 1997 / EURO 20 - T- Shirt : Manuel Göttsching on back side and MG.ART logo front , size: m / L / XL / each: EURO 15 If you interessed in one or more items please let me know, contact me offlist. All price without P & P. webmaster@t... or order@t... Regards Heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading I think this pretty much sums it up. Martin Kasprzak pretty much has explained the law, the feelings, and the do(s) and don't(s). If we follow this, we might not get in too much trouble. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading From: Franklin Smythe Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: Must reply to Martin's post Upon reading Martin's post on bootlegs, I must take this opportunity to make a few comments. The subject of bootlegs is so often debated among music circles, and I hope this doesn't make readers groan too loudly, but since I've got the attention of an official voice... I too do not condone anyone making profit off of anyone else's work. Bootlegs are of course illegal, and I agree that even those bootleggers with the purest of intentions just to make the music available to fans should not be considered above the law. However... Such bootlegs would not even exist if there were not a market demand left unfulfilled by the official source. Given the choice between a bootleg of unknown origin and an official concert release, I can't imagine any fan preferring the bootleg. (Assuming the official release is a 'true' recording faithful to the original performance, that is: sorry, but you have to throw in that caveat when talking about TD nowadays.) Surely a band like Tangerine Dream recognizes that its fan base is composed mostly of voracious collectors who want every piece of music ever played. The audience for this material is already out there. Given that, one must ask why so much of TD's concert material is lacking in official releases. So often fans are left only with excuses from the various parties (too many legal problems, the record company won't allow it, all the studio-record material is owned by someone else, the publisher holds the rights until the year 3000, there isn't time to produce a record, etc.). Those reasons may each be important to one party or another, but the end result is still the same: the fans have no opportunity to buy a recording. Where else to turn but the bootleggers, who are not bogged down by all the seemingly insurmountable obstacles the 'official' parties have to contend with. Sure, the quality usually stinks, the prices often exorbitant, business practices highly suspect, but the true fan's only alternative is... having nothing at all. Now, I'm far from an expert on the all legal issues and red tape in the music industry. I'm sure it's downright exasperating at times. But I have to believe that if TD truly wanted to release a series of live concert records which could genuinely put the bootlegs off the map (say, one complete unretouched recording from each of its concert tours), it couldn't possibly be so unthinkably complex as to be unapproachable. To this outsider anyway, there seems to be plenty of precedent on TDI's existing releases to suggest that such a project is viable. There are many examples on 'I-Box' alone of material supposedly still 'owned' by other parties: the 1986 performance of 'Pilots of Purple Twilight' (Virgin), the material from 'Pinnacles' on the Perth recording (also Virgin), 'Unicorn Saga' (Universal), all the live stuff from the Private years, and others. I don't understand why the same principle which allows such things to be released in small little snippets could not be applied to a full-scale complete concert recording. If TD were finally able to make these recordings available on the up-and-up to the fans who want them, I don't think even a single fan would have the slightest quarrel with pursuing bootleggers to the ends of the earth. Until that time, though, the sad reality is that bootleggers provide a service that the official channels are either unwilling or unable to offer. I completely agree that the money is going into the wrong pockets, but if the audience is so willing to spend, why are the sources seemingly so unwilling to provide? FTS From: atye@a... Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 7:38 pm Subject: Re: FTS's post Thanks for the post FTS... I think you have put into words what SO many people are actually thinking. It seems that a LOT of bands today realize the benefits of providing their fans with what the fans are looking for, but with the proceeds going to the band, not unscrupulous bootleggers. The fan gets the recording regardless, so it's really a matter of quality and where the money ends up. This is also frustrating to the fans. Take a look at the USA rock band Pearl Jam. They have released a set of 20-30 (maybe more) 'official bootlegs' of live shows from their 2000 tour. The CD's come in a plain cardboard sleeve and are priced at the normal rate for CD's here in the USA (about $12-14) and are easily available at any CD retailer. I have also seen where Deep Purple has released a couple of box sets of live and unreleased recordings, as have Emerson, Lake, and Palmer and several other bands. There is of course a market for this in the Tangerine Dream realm. Like you said, the bootleggers wouldn't be in business w/o a demand for the product. I hope that maybe one day the band could start some sort of program to release old shows to the fans, even if it was only on the website. Like you said, if there's a will, there's a way. In today's digital age, anything is possible in this area. Also, thanks to Martin for a clarification on the issue of honest, true fans trading only for the pleasure of hearing the best music. This is the way most people are, I have met many great friends around the world through trading music and look forward to meeting even more. Thanks, and a Happy New Year to all... ATYE By the way.....how much is 60 Euro's in $US anyway ?? :-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 7:46 pm Subject: Subject: Must reply to Martin's post of course there's alway frank zappa's beat-the-bootleggers series. He released the bootleggers bootlegs at normal release prices--bad quality and all. --T _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: tangram12@a... Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 8:50 pm Subject: website update hi everyone my post did not seem to get through so here it is again i have updated my website for the 1st time this year, please checkout my wants section, maybe there is something you have that i need ;-) please contact me offlist if you can help me thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'tangram12' Date: Thu Jan 3, 2002 8:26 pm Subject: web site updated hi everyone i have just updated my website for the first time this year. please check out my wants section there may be something on there that you can help me out with :-). Duncan tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 12:31 am Subject: Re: ice cream Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, I actually held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. It disappeared off the shelves shortly afterwards and has never been seen again. 8-) Dell As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31008 Re: ice cream odean@m... Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB 31010 Re: ice cream Michael Fox Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB 31015 Re: ice cream Michael A Jean Fri 1/4/2002 3 KB From: odean@m... Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: ice cream At 07:31 PM 1/3/02 -0500, you wrote: >Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, I actually >held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. Heehee, one part of that message sounds REALLY familiar for some reason! Did this happen in 1983? :-) From: quarlie@a... Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:46 am Subject: Re: Pearl Jam official bootlegs In a message dated 1/3/02 2:51:41 PM, atye@a... writes: >Take a look at the USA rock band Pearl Jam. They have released a set >of 20-30 (maybe more) 'official bootlegs' of live shows from their 2000 >tour. Way more, actually--71 by my count. I think they released one for each show on the tour. Imagine if TD had 71 live albums! --Daniel NP: Statemachine - Breakdown Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31013 Re: Pearl Jam official bootlegs braddito Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: ice cream At 07:31 PM 01/03/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, I actually >held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. It was called 'The Keep' Ice Cream here in the midwest USA. Mike From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 9:07 am Subject: Re: Copies for friends and relatives --- John Vertical wrote: > And Infection, I'm glad to know that! Because > there's quite few artists bot > me and my father like (including TD) we'd both like > to keep copies of > certain records. So when I'm moving away (BTW, do > you still live with your > parents?) neither is going to have to buy dozens of > favourite albums again. Yeah, well Jussila copied almost all albums from my TD collection to MD and he explained this to me. Lucky bastard I say! And yes, I still live with my parents... it's much cheaper that way. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 10:40 am Subject: Florian Fricke I just heard from the local radioprogram that Florian Fricke has died last saturday. They played the last 20 minutes his stuff, which seemed pretty good. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: 'braddito' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 10:50 am Subject: Re: Pearl Jam official bootlegs > Imagine if TD had 71 live albums! > > --Daniel > NP: Statemachine - Breakdown I can also imagine my bank balance and the subsequent divorce procedings ! Toby From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 11:09 am Subject: Tickets 1983 Magdeburg Hi all, on the Johannes Schmoelling website: www.johannesschmoelling.de you can found two very rare Ticket scans from a TD tour 1983 in the German Democratic Republic at Magdeburg. This city is 25 km of my residence removes. Very cool stuff. This is first time which I something from these mystirious GDR Tour sees. Up to now me only Dresden concert is well-known. Regards heiko www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de Bestellen Sie hier Ihre kostenlose head & shoulders Produktprobe - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/ppc?109446C254962016 D2 Vodafone CallYa - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?86795C1493809712 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 12:07 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: ice cream I bought it and may have even saved the carton somewhere...It was kind of like orange sherbet... > -----Original Message----- > From: Adele Outland [mailto:outlanda60@h...] > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:31 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: ice cream > > > Edy's had an ice cream named Tangerine Dream for a while. I know, > I actually > held it in my hand but couldn't afford two flavors. It disappeared off the > shelves shortly afterwards and has never been seen again. 8-) Dell > > As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Scott' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:07 pm Subject: Re: TD foods It's not really a food, but I noticed in the Internet Movie Database that there is a porn star who goes by the name Tangerine Dream... Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31018 Re: TD foods Owens, James Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB From: 'Scott' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:23 pm Subject: Re: Martin's Post >Surely a band like Tangerine Dream recognizes that its fan base is composed mostly of voracious collectors >who want every piece of music ever played. The audience for this material is already out there. Given that, >one must ask why so much of TD's concert material is lacking in official releases. So often fans are left only >with excuses from the various parties (too many legal problems, the record company won't allow it, all the >studio-record material is owned by someone else, the publisher holds the rights until the year 3000, there >isn't time to produce a record, etc.). Those reasons may each be important to one party or another, but the >end result is still the same: the fans have no opportunity to buy a recording. I can't imagine anyone but TD owning the rights to the recordings of their all-improvised shows, since those never appeared in a published form, unless Virgin by contract also owned the rights to all their performances as well. That would have been horrible, and I can't see a business hawk like Edgar signing a contract that had that clause in it. What I'd like to see it TD put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more interesting shows from over the years, complete and unedited. The Grateful Dead started it, then Phish and Pearl Jam followed suit, and now moe. is starting a live series too. Their series is called 'Warts and All,' referring to the imperfect nature of live shows and how the series shows them not cleaned up for release. I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31041 Re: Martin's Post E Neal Frost Sat 1/5/2002 3 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:26 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: TD foods Someone has posted the URL to her site some time back. My wife and I got a good laugh out of it. Evidently she's a stripper in Canada and has done some porn. She's got a few pics on her site (more if you pay, I'm sure), and just judging from her pics it looks like she may have been around doing her business before Edgar started his business... (actually she's probably not that old, but her skin's all wrinkly - too many tanning beds...) James > -----Original Message----- > > It's not really a food, but I noticed in the Internet Movie > Database that > there is a porn star who goes by the name Tangerine Dream... > > Scott From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:29 pm Subject: KB for Tape Archivist I second the nomination! > -----Original Message----- > What I'd like to see is TD > put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more > interesting shows from over the years, complete and unedited. [...] > I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! > > Scott From: ANGELES LAVIN Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 3:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] UNCOVERED TD LIVE SPAIN (BILBAO 31-1-1976) --- Gert Jalass escribió: > Hi, > > I would be interested in getting a copy. > > All modern methods of payment ( e.g. transfer to a > 'EU' bank account ) are > an option. Hello Gert, Well, I can swap the double CD-R for 2 of the next items: (Only in CD format, mint-excellent condition) PETER BANKS: Two Sides of Peter Banks (1973, USA only) ALAN WHITE: Ramshackled (1976, Japan only) TANGERINE DREAM: BSO LEGEND (1986, any release) JON ANDERSON: Three Ships (1985, Japan only) JON ANDERSON: Animation (1982, bootleg USA) JON ANDERSON: Olias of Sunhillow (1976, Japan only) JON ANDERSON: Song of Seven (1980, Japan only) JON ANDERSON: The Best of South America 1993 (CD+VHS) PATRICK MORAZ: I (Japan only) STEVE HOWE: Guitar Player (1989) STEVE HOWE: Guitar Plus (1995) GENESIS: Three Sides Live (first release with studio tracks) RICK WAKEMAN: 1984 (1981) RICK WAKEMAN: COST OF LIVING (1983) RICK WAKEMAN: rare stuff AZUL Y NEGRO: SUSPENSE (1983, Spain only rare CD) VANGELIS: rare stuff (too many to mention here...) JEAN MICHEL JARRE: rare stuff (idem...) YES: any DVD BLOQUE: any CD (only Japan or Korea) IBIO: Cuevas de Altamira (only Japan) JON AND VANGELIS: Page of Life (1998 USA only) TANGERINE DREAM: lots... So, if you can supply me with any of these titles, great! but I won't trade for money. Thank you very much for your interest. ALFT _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:06 pm Subject: audio stimulation? (semi-OT) Hi all, I was looking for info on the 'Blaster Beam' instrument created by Craig Huxley (best known as the sound of V'Ger from Star Trek The Motion Picture) on the net yesterday, when I came across this interesting site. Here's a quote from the page: 'Craig Huxley gave a concert featuring, among other things, a homemade instrument called the Blaster Beam. The Beam can be heard on the soundtrack to STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE (Vger's signature sound effect) and on several New Age albums. It's an amazing instrument, especially when amplified to high levels. The rumor circulating around after the concert was that when Huxley played the Beam, there were women in the audience falling out of their chairs with BIG smiles on their faces. Over a dozen reported having intensely sexual feelings from the Beam sound, up to and including orgasm.' The author of the site is evidently a synth-head and had created a patch for his Xpander, which reportedly had a similar effect on his ex-girlfriend. This guy started a fairly in-depth information gathering, and got some interesting responses. You can read the whole thing at: http://www.totse.com/en/technology/science_technology/synsex.html If sound can truly have this effect, why aren't there more female electronic music fans? Also, does anyone have a sound sample of the Beam, or a synth that can make one. The guy describes how he made the patch in some kind of synth-head talk that I don't understand. If anyone here can translate that into an actual sound and would be so kind as to make a recording of the sound to CDR or MP3, I'd be happy to work a trade with you. James PS: Michael Stearns evidently uses the Blaster Beam fairly regularly as well. For those that don't know, the Blaster Beam is a 17 foot long beam made from 4 inch thick aluminum plate. It has many wire stretched down it's length which can be struck with a mallet or played in slide-guitar style with a spent artillery shell! It has dozens of pick-ups all down the length. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31022 Re: audio stimulation? (semi-OT) Joe Shoults Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB 31023 Re: audio stimulation? (semi-OT) Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/4/2002 4 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:39 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] audio stimulation? (semi-OT) I rememebr something about low frequency sounds stimulating this response, like 4 Hz or something... can't remember where I read it though. I'm thinking the reference had something to do with Jose Silva Mind Control Method (discussing how frequencies induce Alpha-level brain states), or maybe it was some of the kooky stuff I was into from Robert Anton Wilson, Leary and the like., The description of the instrument sounds like that thing Mickey Hart plays. > -----Original Message----- > was that when Huxley played the Beam, there were women in the audience > falling out of their chairs with BIG smiles on their faces. Over a > dozen reported having intensely sexual feelings from the Beam > sound, up to and including orgasm.' ... > 4 inch thick aluminum plate. It has many wire stretched down > it's length which can be struck with a mallet or played in slide From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 4:48 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] audio stimulation? (semi-OT) A while back recording studios used metal plates like this for reverbs. We see it today on electronic ones called plates. Perhaps one liked the sound produced and used some other magic to bring it to a more musical instrument. Also I remember reading something in 'Future Music' (I might be wrong on the mag) on how electronic reverbs synth these days. They had a diagram as well showing the sound waves as it flowed over the metal plate. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 8:39 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] audio stimulation? (semi-OT) > I rememebr something about low frequency sounds stimulating this response, > like 4 Hz or something... can't remember where I read it though. I'm > thinking the reference had something to do with Jose Silva Mind Control > Method (discussing how frequencies induce Alpha-level brain states), or > maybe it was some of the kooky stuff I was into from Robert Anton Wilson, > Leary and the like., > > The description of the instrument sounds like that thing Mickey Hart plays. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > was that when Huxley played the Beam, there were women in the audience > > falling out of their chairs with BIG smiles on their faces. Over a > > dozen reported having intensely sexual feelings from the Beam > > sound, up to and including orgasm.' > ... > > 4 inch thick aluminum plate. It has many wire stretched down > > it's length which can be struck with a mallet or played in slide > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 5:06 pm Subject: Blaster Beam The Blaster Beam is actually more of a beam than a plate. Dimension are (approximately): 17ft X 1ft X 4in It MAKES the sound along with the groups of wires stretched down it's length. Think of it as a very exotic strings instrument. With all the pick-ups and good amplification, it can really make some incredible sounds. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Administrator for kay-net.com [mailto:admin@k...] > > A while back recording studios used metal plates like this > for reverbs. We > see it today on electronic ones called plates. Perhaps one > liked the sound > produced and used some other magic to bring it to a more > musical instrument. > Also I remember reading something in 'Future Music' (I might > be wrong on the > mag) on how electronic reverbs synth these days. They had a > diagram as well > showing the sound waves as it flowed over the metal plate. From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: Dear Mr. Kasprzak (I'm posting this to the list so that other Tadream members can comment. All opinions are my own, only.) I'm heartened to see that this list is attended by someone close to Edgar and Jerome. I write this from my own heart, but I suspect that I speak (write) for most (or probably, all) fans here. I don't really want to buy, or even trade bootlegs. I want to buy REAL concert recordings as only Edgar and Jerome can produce them: From concert masters using Jerome's DQC mastering. I want to buy them EXACTLY as performed, without overdubs, embellishments, 'corrections', or creations, please. If they have some flaws, that's okay. Let them have some flaws. If cuts are needed to avoid copyrighted sections owned by uncooperative labels, cut away! If Edgar and Jerome want to bring them 'up to date' by overdubbing, that's understandable. Release recordings of new mixes with overdubs. If they are cleaver and interesting, I will buy them too! (Consider the good reception received by DM3.) I understand that there are legal reasons why TD cannot release some concert material intact, but surely there must be a mountain of concert material from the 1970s that is of an improvisational nature and that could be released without violating copyrights -- I have bootlegs that show this to be the case. Please release those concerts, in whole or in part, for they are the ones I most desire. Thank you, and please sleep well knowing that despite what is sometimes written here by excitable fans -- music that is successful is emotional, is it not? -- I'm sure that the vast majority of fans really do know that Edgar and Jerome endeavor to do their best. Please send them my love and my best wishes for 2002 and beyond. Fond Regards, Mark Filipak From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:26 pm Subject: what is DQC, really?? (was RE: [tadream] Dear Mr. Kasprzak) what exactly IS 'DQC Mastering,' anyway? > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > I want to buy REAL concert recordings as only Edgar and > Jerome can produce them: From concert masters using Jerome's > DQC mastering. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31033 Re: what is DQC, really?? Franklin Smythe Fri 1/4/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:16 pm Subject: the mighty BEAM >Also, does anyone have a sound sample of the Beam, There's lots of examples of the Beam in use--mickey hart used to play it at many grateful dead concerts during the drums segment of the shows also, I've seen pigface play it tagteam--two drummers simutaneously and michael stearns has recordings of it to as I recall. try www.michaelstearns.com The beam is basically a long piece of metal with more or less 12 foot in length piano wires attached to it and it uses a similar pickup as an electric guitar. I've seen mickey play it with a slide--whack it really and kick the hell out if--with plenty of reverb it's simply amazing.... --T _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31029 Re: the mighty BEAM Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/4/2002 3 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:21 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] KB for Tape Archivist Sadly, I suspect the problem is not finding people who would be willing to do this, but finding a member of TD that would be willing to let them do it... Oh well, we can always dream... Paul ---------- >De : 'Owens, James' >À : ''tadream@yahoogroups.com'' >Objet : [tadream] KB for Tape Archivist >Date : Ven 4 jan 2002 16:29 > > I second the nomination! > >> -----Original Message----- >> What I'd like to see is TD >> put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more >> interesting shows from over the years, complete and unedited. > [...] >> I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! >> >> Scott > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] the mighty BEAM Well there you have it. Since I usually never listen to GD, I would have never guessed it. What is the real name of this instrument? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'tei waz' To: ; Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:16 AM Subject: [tadream] the mighty BEAM > >Also, does anyone have a sound sample of the Beam, > > There's lots of examples of the Beam in use--mickey hart used to play it at > many grateful dead concerts during the drums segment of the shows also, I've > seen pigface play it tagteam--two drummers simutaneously and michael stearns > has recordings of it to as I recall. > > try > > www.michaelstearns.com > > > The beam is basically a long piece of metal with more or less 12 foot in > length piano wires attached to it and it uses a similar pickup as an > electric guitar. I've seen mickey play it with a slide--whack it really and > kick the hell out if--with plenty of reverb it's simply amazing.... > > --T > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 7:57 pm Subject: ot the mighty beam continued OK here's some more BEAM info --T rec.music.gdead FAQ, pt. 1 of 2 (downloaded may 2 1995) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) What is that weird thing that Mickey plays during Space? -------------------------------------------------------- It is called 'The Beam', a long aluminum I-beam with twelve piano strings streched along its length; the vibration of the strings is sensed by a very large magnetic pickup. The sound is amplified through Myers speakers and sub-woofers, whose loudness can be varied with a foot-pedal allowing a controlled degree of acoustic feedback. The best example of the Beam is on the Rythm Devil's 'The Apocalypse Now Sessions'. The Beam is used heavily, but most notably on the track, 'Napalm for Breakfast'. Pittsburgh 06/26/88, Shoreline 06/16/90, and Buffalo 06/06/92 are good examples of the Beam in concert. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:01 pm Subject: ot beam you can try here http://www.gracecathedral.org/ram/earth_hart.ram if it doesn't work try http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/features/fea_20010515.shtml click on 'listen to mickey hart's segment' there's about 2 to 4 minutes of talking before the music begins (segment's about 18 + minutes)--listen for the big low frequency sound--that's the beam--albeit reverbed out from the grace cathedral :) --T _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: vic rek Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:45 pm Subject: Rubycon Super Audio CD I just got my copy of Rubycon SACD today. I am playing it on my regular CD player and it sounds great. Now I wonder what the effect will be using a SACD player? Does anyone else have this CD? The packaging is nice. Made in Holland during late 2001. The CD case itself is a little different than your standard jewel case; the edges are rounded. I got mine from www.cdquest.com from Huntington Beach, California for a little under $20. Vic From: Franklin Smythe Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:47 pm Subject: Re: what is DQC, really?? Given the time frame the term debuted, the state of technology at that time, and the source, my guess has always been: Damn Quick Computer FTS --- Joe Shoults wrote: > what exactly IS 'DQC Mastering,' anyway? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 4, 2002 8:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side to side (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations up and down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The record plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but a quad phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back channels. Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look like the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is being decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back channels are not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the soundspace (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money for a quad phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the story with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: 'Alpha Centauri' [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 'Zeit' [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware engineer) 'Owens, James' wrote: > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I haven't > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. I've got some > classical LPs in Quad too. > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where you have > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > Vic > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel audio. > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how many of > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that there was > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > dummy... you > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, but I > > > could be > > > wrong... From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 12:36 am Subject: Bootleging Friends, I appreciate Martin's mail to the list, explaining TDI's 'policy' about live show trading. But, please, be clear on this, and I have explained this on this list about a thousand (or so. ;-) times: Copyright violations are (in Germany, and most member contries of the WTO) 'official' violatons. I dont know the correct term in english legalese, it stands for violations the state is obliged to investigate and prosecute, regardless of a complaint filed. To explain the difference, police etc. only investigate and prosecute your neighbour, having a LOUD party, if you file a complaint against him. On the other hand, if they get word of your neighbor harboring terrorists, i.e. committing an 'official' crime, they will and can not wait for a complaint to be filed - they are obliged to investigate and prosecute. Copyright violations made it to 'official' crimes in most countries in the 1980s, when video pirateing became a major issue. This left all us live concert traders under the same legal threat a video bootleger of a Spielberg movie has to face. Bottom line: thanks to Martin for explainig the TDI policy. But: we all are doing our trading under a very thin protection. Even if TDI does not take action, our local law inforcement may, at any time, do so. Your, my, our, protection, at the moment, is that they have (a lot of) bigger fish to go after than us. cheers, klaus -- Klaus.Beschorner........................work....+49-7033-45683 Drosselweg.6............................fax.....+49-7033-45631 D-71120.Grafenau........................Mobile.+49-174 3157754 Germany.................................home....+49-7033-45142 ............................................http://www.caby.de From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:09 am Subject: Dear Mr. Kasprzak, Some Clarification & Additions I wrote to you shortly after midnight (local time), this morning (Fri, 04 Jan 2002, 5:20:26 GMT). Some members of this list have written to me saying that what I wrote could be misunderstood. I tried to be concise, but upon rereading what I wrote, I must agree. So I'm writing to clarify it. Clarification ============= When I said in one paragraph 'I want to buy them [the concerts] EXACTLY as performed' and then in the next paragraph 'If Edgar and Jerome want to bring them 'up to date' by overdubbing ... I will buy them too!' I meant this: Release them both! Yes! I will buy both the originals AND the remixes. I shall expand on this so that there can be no confusion. I want to buy CDs of the concerts in their original forms with whatever warts they may have. After sampling the concert tapes, mixing (if multitrack), and doing other TD audio magic (DQC mastering) to them to yield the best sound possible without substantially altering or adding to them, give me the opportunity to buy them. Once the original concert CD has been released, if Edgar and Jerome want to use the material as food for remixes, overdubs, etc. that's fine. If the resulting art is interesting, then I will buy those CDs also! What matter is poverty when you have music! (Nice artwork and accompanying text is desirable too.) 'White Cloths' ============== Let me give you a specific example. I have MP3s of the afternoon and evening shows from The Palast der Republik, 31 Jan 80, commonly known as 'White Cloths'. Many people have these, though some have the original tapes or CDR copies -- I have only 64kbps, MP3s . Of course, I also have the official album 'Pergamon' but as everyone knows, 1, it is not the entire evening show, 2, 'Quichotte Pt.1' is somewhat altered, and 3, 'Quichotte Pt.2' is a studio recreation that, though quite faithful to the original, is nevertheless, not the original. From the MP3s I have, I see that the afternoon show was 80 minutes and the evening show was 77 minutes and 21 seconds. They would (barely) fit on two CDs. Though I already have 'Pergamon', I would happily buy a double CD of 'Tangerine Dream Behind the Wall Live at Palast der Republik, East Berlin, 31 Jan 80 The Complete Concerts'. I think you could count on nearly everyone on this list buying this product, and I know that there are a great many people who are not on this list who would also buy this immediately. My Request ========== Please ask Edgar and Jerome to seriously consider releasing whatever live material they can in its COMPLETE AND UNALTERED form, especially concerts from the 1970s and early 1980s. Listening to 'White Cloths' I can only imagine the sensation that their release would create in the music media and with the public at large. Best Regards, Mark Filipak From: 'Hotmail' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:16 am Subject: ENO's WHITE CUBE ?? Any information on this would be of interest....is this on the US Ebay site only....what is it exactly..... 'By the way, do you know who is selling the original copy of Eno's White Cube??? ' From: vic rek Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic ATEM - LP France Disques Clementine 33003, QUAD Yellow 'The Sound of The Cosmic Couriers' label. Label also says: 'Produced by Tangerine Dream and Rolf-Ubrich Kaiser' - Remember this guy? ;-) Mark Filipak wrote: > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > 'Alpha Centauri' > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > 'Zeit' > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > From: veine@v... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:40 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading My 2 pennies worth; When you come to the realization that there are a lot of bootleg recordings with your favorite group, you have most CD's/will buy the rest, because you want a 'complete' collection. Most 'regular' people wouldn't concern themselves with bootleg recordings, they can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores, but they don't spend time, nor have the 'devotion' to search further. I must say that Tangerine Dream's stand on this issue is a tribute to all the 'hard-core' fans that collects almost everything about the band. And for that, we can only thank them greatly. If they were to release some of the old concert recordings, I would be the first in line on the day they are issued, even slightly remixed, tho I actually prefer the untouched recordings.. I guess in simple words, I'll collect everything I can get my hands on, via trade or buy, cause as I said, when you finally get aware of the 'unofficial' recordings out there, you are inclined to get it all :o) Please correct me if you think I'm wrong and excuse my for the evening poor english and ways of expression (it's been a long week) Regards ~Veine On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:48:54 +0100 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: >At 10:59 03.01.02 , you wrote: >>Martin, >> Thanks for the posting (harsh or not). I myself did not intend to >>reply to the list to begin with when I initiated a trade. I accidentally hit >>reply and it went to the list. I hope now that everyone sees how some people >>operate, though. I offered a trade between collectors and was answered >with a >>couple of rather pompous replies, one of which you read here. >> I would like to know, just to clear things up once and for >all....what >>is the OFFICIAL policy concerning trading concerts (with no money >>involved..collector to collector only). I am sure a lot of people are >>interested to know and no one wants to do anything illegal. >> I do not claim to speak for ALL members of this list by any means, >but >>most of us are just true fans and lovers of the music. Any clarity you can >>provide on this situation would be appreciated. >> >>Thanks, and a Happy New Year to all... >>Alex >>(ATYE) >> > > >Dear Alex, > >while the band does not particularly encourage recording and spreading >their shows, they do tolerate und understand the fan´s interests in having >these concert recordings, so... as long as people trade and do not make >profit from exchanging the CD-R´s or tapes or whatever, we will not take >any measures against it. We will, however, go against any kind of profit >that someone else tries to make from the band´s artistic and intellectual >property - i.e. from work that doesn´t belong to them. > >Btw, I did receive a rather childish and unpleasant reply from the >advertiser of this CD-R that made pretty clear that he is only interested >in financial gain from this release. His pompous reply to the list made >this pretty clear, too, methinks. I can only advise you all - do not buy >the item or trade it for s/t expensive from him. If somebody else on the >list manages to obtain this release, make a tree and share it with everyone >for free. > > > >Best regards, > >Martin Kasprzak >TDI- Music- Support. >Tel:-49-30-23620995 >Fax:-49-30-23620996 > >Visit our Website at: > >www.tdimusic.com > >Have a nice day! > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > -- Get your firstname@l... email at http://Nameplanet.com/?su From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 2:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic Thanks Vic! I had this entry but I didn't know it was quadraphonic. Do you remember when I first joined Tadream back in the summer of 96? I started a comprehensive chronology of TD. I'm still working on it. I'll add your contribution. What's a Chronology? ==================== Note to any folks not familiar with this work: A discography is just album releases, track names and times, etc. What I started is a chronology of Tangerine Dream that has everything -- well, everything I can learn. You see, I started a discography but found that it breaks down when you consider albums like 'Green Desert' and 'Tyger' and disc 5 of 'Tangents'. Also, a discography doesn't include appearances, concerts, unreleased movie scores, etc. whereas a chronology does. The chronology is email friendly (ie, 73 characters per line, plain text), compact, concise, and formatted to facilitate automated search using regular expressions in Perl, Snobol, or any other string processing language, while still being pleasing to the eye. Currently the chronology is 480,551 characters of which probably 1/2 is still rough notes. Anyone wishing a copy should request it off list, please. Anyone who would like to help, that would be welcome too. :-) Once again. Thank you very much, Vic. -- Mark PS: Remember my incessent requests for details on LP and CD releases (matrix numbers and all)? The folks on this list were very tolerant. :-) PPS: I also have an 'Introduction to Tangerine Dream' that is about 4 years out of date but is a good synopsis of the music up to about 1997, concentrating on the various styles or phases of TD music through the years and intended for casual reading. It currently is 36,864 characters in length (about 5 printed pages). vic rek wrote: > > ATEM - LP France Disques Clementine 33003, QUAD > Yellow 'The Sound of The Cosmic Couriers' label. Label also says: > 'Produced by Tangerine Dream and Rolf-Ubrich Kaiser' - Remember this guy? ;-) > > Mark Filipak wrote: > > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > > > 'Alpha Centauri' > > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > > > 'Zeit' > > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'E Neal Frost' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 2:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Martin's Post By the time I read this e-mail, I am sure the motion has already be 'seconded', so I 'third' the motion!!! Neal . > What I'd like to see it TD put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and release the more interesting > shows from over the years, complete and unedited> for release. I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape archivist! > > Scott > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 2:32 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading Veine, your English is just fine because it comes from the heart -- the source of all language. I have to disagree with you on one point, that is: '[most 'regular' people] can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores'. 'Pergamon' is nice, but I think that anyone who hears the passion in Johannes' Tangram piano solo from the Palast der Republik afternoon show would prefer 'White Cloths'. If you haven't heard it... well, it's just breath taking. There is such spirt and heart that 'Pergamon' sounds rather dull in comparison. Ciao -- Mark veine@v... wrote: > > My 2 pennies worth; > > When you come to the realization that there are a lot of bootleg recordings with your favorite group, you have most CD's/will buy the rest, because you want a 'complete' collection. Most 'regular' people wouldn't concern themselves with bootleg recordings, they can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores, but they don't spend time, nor have the 'devotion' to search further. I must say that Tangerine Dream's stand on this issue is a tribute to all the 'hard-core' fans that collects almost everything about the band. > > And for that, we can only thank them greatly. If they were to release some of the old concert recordings, I would be the first in line on the day they are issued, even slightly remixed, tho I actually prefer the untouched recordings.. I guess in simple words, I'll collect everything I can get my hands on, via trade or buy, cause as I said, when you finally get aware of the 'unofficial' recordings out there, you are inclined to get it all :o) > > Please correct me if you think I'm wrong and excuse my for the evening poor english and ways of expression (it's been a long week) > > Regards > > ~Veine From: veine@v... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 3:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading Mark; Thanks (the few Foster's I've had (one pint cans)) doesn't help my english since it isn't my native tounge ;o) What I did mean is that for people that doesn't even bother/doesn't know how to find out, the official releases are just wonderful, actually my wife has started to apprieciate some of the older ones (not the really early material but.. hope lives ) for us that have heard/own files from Palast der Republik, it's clear and obvious which files that are the better set of the two. Pergamon is running right now in my player and I must say it's been a while since I listened to that one. Thanks for the inspiration to play it :o) Regards ~Veine On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 21:32:06 -0500 Mark Filipak wrote: >Veine, your English is just fine because it comes from the heart -- the source of all language. > >I have to disagree with you on one point, that is: '[most 'regular' people] can enjoy some, if not all of the music that they can buy in stores'. 'Pergamon' is nice, but I think that anyone who hears the passion in Johannes' Tangram piano solo from the Palast der Republik afternoon show would prefer 'White Cloths'. If you haven't heard it... well, it's just breath taking. There is such spirt and heart that 'Pergamon' sounds rather dull in comparison. > >Ciao -- Mark -- Get your firstname@l... email at http://Nameplanet.com/?su From: vic rek Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 5:47 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offered A thought came across my heavily TD-saturated brain today: veine@v... wrote: > And for that, we can only thank them greatly. If they were to release some of the old concert recordings, I would be the first in line on the day they are issued, even slightly remixed, tho I actually prefer the untouched recordings.. I guess in simple words, I'll collect everything I can get my hands on, via trade or buy, cause as I said, when you finally get aware of the 'unofficial' recordings out there, you are inclined to get it all :o) We always keep saying that we want the old concerts BUT we don't want them remixed, tangentized, etc. Do we really know what we really want sometimes? I've been listening to many of the old fan recordings from 1973-1976 and a lot of the music is left for the brain to fill in or romanticize with. An example: I love a particular concert from 1974 even though the quality is poor. The poor quality of the recording even adds 'something' to the atmosphere of the music. If maybe I heard that perfectly, that is, from a soundboard , I may not even recognize the music. So what difference would it be at that point if it was re-mxed or tangentized - it would still be something new than the fan tape that I was listening to. If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Much of what we like may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. What am I saying here ?!!? :-) Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31059 Re: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offere Mark Filipak Sun 1/6/2002 5 KB 31060 Live vs. Remixed Franklin Smythe Sun 1/6/2002 7 KB From: 'John Marchington' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 9:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic I don't think you're totally correct about this, Mark. If I remember correctly, there were three different types of quadraphony used in the days of LPs: QS, SQ and CD-4 (and the latter had nothing to do with compact disc!). The first two used forms of sum and difference modulation to combine the four channels into two so that they could be played with a standard stereo cartridge, while the CD-4 method used a very high frequency carrier (about 45kHz) and the four channels of audio were modulated on that as sum and difference signals -- a bit like stereo FM. Clearly, the latter required the use of a cartridge that would respond to those HF signals. Inevitably, cantilever resonances meant that there was going to be a fairly high degree of groove wear with the latter as well. Not surprisingly, all three systems were incompatible with one another (shades of SACD and DVD-A?) and thus required their own special decoders to reconstruct the four channels of audio. One could get away with using separate amplifiers for the rear channels and feeding the out-of-phase signals from the front channels to them, but the results weren't very impressive (at least with SQ, which was all I had). That, and the mechanical constraints of cartridges and records that existed at the time, generally meant that none of them were likely to take off in a big way. The situation is completely different with both SACD and DVD-A and its quite likely that spectacular results can be obtained from a really good, well set up multi-channel system with either of the above. In my opinion, however, that will require a large room with all the speakers at a reasonable distance from the listener(s) so that detail (even if it is just ambience) from all channels can be experienced. I don't have that luxury, so I'm sticking with stereo. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic > I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side to side (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations up and down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The record plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but a quad phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back channels. Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look like the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is being decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back channels are not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the soundspace (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money for a quad phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the story with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > 'Alpha Centauri' > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > 'Zeit' > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware engineer) > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I haven't > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. I've got some > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where you have > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > James > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel audio. > > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how many of > > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that there was > > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > > dummy... you > > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, but I > > > > could be > > > > wrong... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31074 Re: Quadrophonic armin_theissen Mon 1/7/2002 7 KB From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:03 am Subject: short update Hi all, short update: www.opticaldream.de incl. the NEW GROUND LIFTAZ RELEASE GL 0006 Regards heiko www.opticaldream.de LOOK ALSO TO: www.tribute-to-ashra.de http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:10 am Subject: TD concert tapes Vic wrote: >If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, >but I believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or >we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like >this. Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told to burn it >directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Much of what we like >may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. > >What am I saying here ?!!? :-) A very true and insightful statement! Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear on these old tapes. Scott wrote: >What I'd like to see it TD put a fan in charge of their tape vaults and >release the more interesting shows from over the years, complete and >unedited for release. I nominate Klaus Beschorner to be TD's tape >archivist! Ha, thanks for the honour, but I'd have to decline. I guess I'd just freeze in front of the racks and start drooling ;-) Most of us on this list are still young enough to wait a while. When Edgar finally retires, he'll have to open that vault and pull one out every month to pay the rent ;-) cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31048 Re: TD concert tapes mengels@w... Sat 1/5/2002 3 KB 31055 Re: TD concert tapes Admin Sat 1/5/2002 2 KB 31081 AW: [tadream] TD concert tapes H. Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB From: mengels@w... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] TD concert tapes Klaus C wrote: >A very true and insightful statement! >Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths >was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear >on these old tapes. Well...the frequency range on the Moog is 0Hz (yes it can do DC) to 100Khz I believe. My modular goes from 0.05Hz to around 50KHz and it's all analog. It's probably more the recording equipment which couldn't handle these synths. The cats go crazy with the analog synths but not with the digital gear. :-) Anyway, I love the old recordings and the way it is recorded adds something to the atmosphere. In fact, we did a concert in Hampshire not so long ago and listening to the mixer recording and the audience recording I like the audience best. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail From: 'John Vertical' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 1:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading Here's what I think of this subject... I haven't heard a single bootleg, and I'm not probably going to for a few years. I'm not a diehard collector fan (though I may become one) but not just some guy who happens to like TD among 39 other bands as well, either. I'd be grateful to get *anything* old (mostly referring to the Virgin Years) & so far unreleased, even if it's 'violated' to almost unrecognizable state from whatever the original music was. I heard from Feldon that the in- and outros in Soundmill Navigator are 'fake'; so what. I still like that, (I'm playing it at the moment) though the original-er middle section indeed is nicer than these additions. If I could even get something of the style of Encore, no matter that that one is also some bit re-edited, I'd surely go and buy it. On the other hand... getting a 2CD containing the actual Pergamon concert, or any other original version of an already existing live album, wouldn't be my first interest. Perhaps after I've bough all the other ones having more material what I don't have. That also is the reason why I'm not going to get Tyger in quite some while - I have at least 80% of it already on Dream Roots, and I don't think I'm missing too much. In a nutshell: material that's completely original to any non-collector would surely sell better than a quarterdozen different versions of the tour of a live album already in market. Sohoman-type live albums having more than half of material that even some people who don't even count themselves among 'fans' are not going to be real hit albums, I can guess that. But about anything from the seventies... that's what most people, fanatics or not, want most. I guess. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 7:18 pm Subject: Sueno Latino for sale. Hi all, I have an CD-S for sale: Sueno Latino - Sueno Latino ZYX GDC 2099-8 with the Winter version (great stuff) with special guest Manuel Goettsching on guitar !!! If you interested in, please let me know and make me an serious offer. heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'horrod6' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 9:57 pm Subject: Re: Rumpelstiltskin Dell wrote: 'I guess this might be an area that separates the females from the pack here. I've been seeing pieces like Cinnamon Road and United Goblin's Parade described as too sweet and in every instance they are the particular songs I most like.' Well, I guess the number of females on the list is too small for a statistically significant sample, but I agree with you strongly on Cinnamon Road. I haven't heard Rumpelstiltskin, so I can't comment on that one. Sorry this response is so removed in time from the original message - I have had _major_ PC problems, and then I've been away for the holiday season. Hopefully things will get back to normal now! LnH Marion From: 'horrod6' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:07 pm Subject: CD's for Xmas Hi Infection: just wanted to congratulate you on your choice of Van Gelis' _Spiral_. It's my absolute favourite VG. I hope you managed to get it and are enjoying it by now! LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31069 Re: Vangelis - Spiral TheInfection Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic You can always add some side channels as well as sub woofer. I have been experimenting with 5.1 lately with my synths. I find that I can move sound around the room in a circle as well as construct high lites to rear or side channels. While you are right that you do need a room that large to do this, you can get by with a much simpler system to get similar effects. You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I remember reading the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player that I keep in my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). Dale From: 'horrod6' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:38 pm Subject: LOTR (OT) 'Best LOTR song: Ballad of Bilbo Baggins sung by Leonard Nimoy....' ROFLMAO Actually, this was very distressing for me. Mr Spock was my first crush, a fact that has probably had a major influence on my life since I was about 12. I didn't know about the BoBB until there was a 'Star Trek' night on TV a couple of years ago. What a come down! LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31057 Re: LOTR (OT) PENFOLD Sun 1/6/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 10:06 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] TD concert tapes How right you are on this. Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear on these old tapes. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31081 AW: [tadream] TD concert tapes H. Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB From: tangram12@a... Date: Sat Jan 5, 2002 11:49 pm Subject: web site hi everyone if you are having difficulty accessing my website at www.tadream.co.uk try this lik instead in the meantime whilst i get the problem sorted www.members.tripod.com/~duncanmckee/td.htm thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: PENFOLD Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 12:44 am Subject: Re: [tadream] LOTR (OT) At 02.01.05 22:38, horrod6 wrote: >'Best LOTR song: Ballad of Bilbo Baggins sung by Leonard Nimoy....' > >ROFLMAO Many years ago I found an *autographed* copy of the LP 'The Two Faces of Leonard Nimoy' which has TBoBB on it as well as his classic 'Totally Illogical' Paid $5 for it. Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: scfeldman@j... Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:20 am Subject: Interesting Tidbit About Giorgio Moroder's Introduction to Synths --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: clive_eurodisco To: Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:34:17 +0000 Subject: [moroder] Dan Wyman > From: 'pressplaydebasia' By the way, don't you love Dan Wyman? I do - and I'd love to know more about him. In the interview with Moroder on Sound On Sound magazine's website, he mentions a helpful engineer who first introduced him to the Moog synthesiser. I wonder if this might be Mr Wyman? This guy actually used to 'smuggle' Moroder into the studio where an unnamed avant garde German composer (Stockhausen?) kept his Moog which was basically used for just the odd, atonal sound. The engineer would demonstrate how much more the machine could do musically and got Moroder's interest going... If anyone knows anything more about Dan Wyman please let us know. Clive From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:48 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offered I got some comments for your fevered (and obviously addled) brain to mull over, Vic. vic rek wrote: > > We always keep saying that we want the old concerts BUT we don't want them remixed, tangentized, etc. Do we really know what we really want sometimes? Yes. I know exactly what I want. > I've been listening to many of the old fan recordings from 1973-1976 and a lot of the music is left for the brain to fill in or romanticize with. An example: I love a particular concert from 1974 even though the quality is poor. The poor quality of the recording even adds 'something' to the atmosphere of the music. If maybe I heard that perfectly, that is, from a soundboard , I may not even recognize the music. So what difference would it be at that point if it was re-mxed or tangentized - it would still be something new than the fan > tape that I was listening to. Vic!! Sober up and wash your mouth out with very strong and bitter soap! Okay, what's great about boundboard recordings? 1 - No audience noise. 2 - Live performance full of adrenaline. With all due respect I'd like to emphasize: Live performance full of adrenaline. Studio albums are great, but they don't have the passion that live recordings have. I recently cited Johannes' piano solo in the afternoon Palast der Republik show from 'White Cloths'. You don't hear that kind of passion coming out of a studio. And you don't hear that kind of passion coming from overdubs, either. I thik that may be what's wrong with 'tangitizing': It's all technical and no passion. When Edgar overdubs, I think he's so concerned with the sound he forgets about the soul. It's like putting a layer of chrome over a multi-textured piece of wood. BTW, Edgar displays that kind of passion too. Just listen to some of his live guitar rips. (Hold up your hand if you love it when Edgar grabs his axe during a show.) When Edgar is really on, I don't think any guitarist can equal him. A concert recording is not great because of crowd noise. That's something you just put up with because when you mike from the audience, you're going to get crowd noise. What makes a concert recording great is the performance before a live audience in a concert venue. Listen to Johannes on 'White Cloths'. - His first public appearance as part of TD. - A 4 minute piano solo in front of a huge, attentive GDR crowd. He was pumped. You can hear it. He probably had a woodie throughout the show. You rarely get that in a studio recording. > If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. First, a mixdown of multitrack material that has never been mixed is not a remix. If it is multitrack, then it has to be mixed. I don't think anyone is asking for raw tracks. Point is: Vintage concert recording + modern overdubs = diminishment, disappointment, frustration, anger. > Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Edgar has access to the soundboard tapes. Fantapes are beside the point and boots made from fantapes generally suck. > Much of what we like may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. > > What am I saying here ?!!? :-) Too many suds, Vic. Lay off the beer when you write to the list. :-P -- Mark (Love ya Vic!) > > Vic Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31060 Live vs. Remixed Franklin Smythe Sun 1/6/2002 7 KB From: Franklin Smythe Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 1:16 pm Subject: Live vs. Remixed As a newcomer to this forum, I too must chime in to second Mark's comments. So much of a live performance's heart and soul is lost during the remixing process... if it's done incorrectly. My own personal take on the situation with TD is this. (Those who consider Froese the second coming of Christ may wish to stop reading here.) The biggest problem with all these remixes and 'Tangents-ized' recordings is not the fact that they've been retouched; it's that they've been retouched poorly. And by poorly, I mean simply: with too little consideration of the original presentation of the performance. Most live albums are polished to some extent after the fact for production-value reasons. Inherently, this is not a problem if it's done with great care. In fact, most artists are keenly concerned with retaining the live performance's soul during this process. In TD's case, far too often Edgar has seemingly gone out of his way to take the opposite approach: in the interests of sound quality (or perhaps, some other factors which he would never discuss), the very things which made the original performance sparkle are drowned out by newer sounds and compositional perspectives. These new additions/replacements may be OK in and of themselves, but placing them within the context of a past performance is downright disastrous to the original. And that's why many fans are so turned off by this approach - not because the released product isn't 'good', but because it's not what it's supposed to be. Live concerts are something of sacred ground to most fans. In my opinion, once an artist performs something in this live context, he sacrifices at least a little of his 'ownership' and right to do whatever he wants with it. The work is out there, audiences have heard it, it's a part of history. Making significant changes and then releasing it under the banner of a 'live recording' is tantamount to a lie. And yet, by all accounts, Froese neither agrees with - nor even understands - this perspective. Unless he ever does, he will continue to disappoint fans with these 'live' releases, and then publicly shrug his shoulders when reactions are so negative. FTS --- Mark Filipak wrote: > I got some comments for your fevered (and obviously > addled) brain to mull over, Vic. > > vic rek wrote: > > > > We always keep saying that we want the old > concerts BUT we don't want them remixed, > tangentized, etc. Do we really know what we really > want sometimes? > > Yes. I know exactly what I want. > > > I've been listening to many of the old fan > recordings from 1973-1976 and a lot of the music is > left for the brain to fill in or romanticize with. > An example: I love a particular concert from 1974 > even though the quality is poor. The poor quality > of the recording even adds 'something' to the > atmosphere of the music. If maybe I heard that > perfectly, that is, from a soundboard , I may not > even recognize the music. So what difference would > it be at that point if it was re-mxed or tangentized > - it would still be something new than the fan > > tape that I was listening to. > > Vic!! Sober up and wash your mouth out with very > strong and bitter soap! Okay, what's great about > boundboard recordings? > 1 - No audience noise. > 2 - Live performance full of adrenaline. > > With all due respect I'd like to emphasize: Live > performance full of adrenaline. Studio albums are > great, but they don't have the passion that live > recordings have. I recently cited Johannes' piano > solo in the afternoon Palast der Republik show from > 'White Cloths'. You don't hear that kind of passion > coming out of a studio. And you don't hear that kind > of passion coming from overdubs, either. > > I thik that may be what's wrong with 'tangitizing': > It's all technical and no passion. When Edgar > overdubs, I think he's so concerned with the sound > he forgets about the soul. It's like putting a layer > of chrome over a multi-textured piece of wood. > > BTW, Edgar displays that kind of passion too. Just > listen to some of his live guitar rips. (Hold up > your hand if you love it when Edgar grabs his axe > during a show.) When Edgar is really on, I don't > think any guitarist can equal him. > > A concert recording is not great because of crowd > noise. That's something you just put up with because > when you mike from the audience, you're going to get > crowd noise. What makes a concert recording great is > the performance before a live audience in a concert > venue. > > Listen to Johannes on 'White Cloths'. > - His first public appearance as part of TD. > - A 4 minute piano solo in front of a huge, > attentive GDR crowd. > > He was pumped. You can hear it. He probably had a > woodie throughout the show. You rarely get that in a > studio recording. > > > If I had a choice, I would probably prefer > re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this > attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll > hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old > releases like this. > > First, a mixdown of multitrack material that has > never been mixed is not a remix. If it is > multitrack, then it has to be mixed. I don't think > anyone is asking for raw tracks. > > Point is: Vintage concert recording + modern > overdubs = diminishment, disappointment, > frustration, anger. > > > Maybe if you heard that original tape and was told > to burn it directly to disc, you may have second > thoughts. > > Edgar has access to the soundboard tapes. Fantapes > are beside the point and boots made from fantapes > generally suck. > > > Much of what we like may not be exactly what we > hear, but what we think we know. > > > > What am I saying here ?!!? :-) > > Too many suds, Vic. Lay off the beer when you write > to the list. :-P > > -- Mark (Love ya Vic!) > > > > > Vic > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 1:46 pm Subject: Online Ordering All, I have been referred to this site. They have numerous TD bits and bobs for sale. Can't give any recommendation to them as I've never used them. Can anyone else give a reference to their reliability? Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: mickfarrar [mailto:mickfarrar@h...] Sent: 06 January 2002 13:34 To: atf@yahoogroups.com Subject: [atf] Re: The Joy of Vinyl! Also check www.gemm.com - brilliant. From: Dmitriy V N Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:13 pm Subject: Re: Tyger and Soundmill Navigator >I heard from Feldon that the in- and >outros in Soundmill Navigator are 'fake'; so what. I still like that, (I'm >playing it at the moment) though the original-er middle section indeed is >nicer than these additions. If that's truth than TD really can still perfectly imitate themselves:) Cause I can't differ it from their old style. But all in all Soundmill Navigator is far from Encore and even Ricochet. >That also is the reason why I'm not going to get >Tyger in quite some while - I have at least 80% of it already on Dream >Roots, and I don't think I'm missing too much. Essentials from Tyger are IMO London, Alchemy of the Heart and 21st Century Common Man parts 1&2. The last two are my favourites - it's a pity they are too short... The whole instrumental album in this style would be a great masterpiece but Livemiles shows more US intonation. Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Dmitriy V N Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:14 pm Subject: Concerning later KS I'm afraid I completely can't understand some things from 80s KS material... For example Sebastian in Traum from Audentity - is it a joke or what? And there are many other tracks that are close to this annoying style, even Sense from Live which seems to be very popular on the official KS website. But in any case some compositions really sound interesting - among them are Bellistique from Live, Silent Running from Trancefer, Spielglocken from Audentity and Velvet System from En=trance. Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31068 Re: Concerning later KS Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB 31073 Re: Concerning later KS mengels@w... Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB 31076 Re: Concerning later KS Dmitriy V N Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 31077 Re: Concerning later KS zathrus13 Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 31089 Re: Concerning later KS Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/7/2002 4 KB 31092 Re: Concerning later KS John Marchington Tue 1/8/2002 6 KB 31098 Re: Concerning later KS Synthhtnys@a... Tue 1/8/2002 3 KB 31099 Re: Concerning later KS Greg Tue 1/8/2002 2 KB 31101 Re: Concerning later KS John Marchington Tue 1/8/2002 3 KB From: 'Scott' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Re: TD concert trading >If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I believe with this attitude that 'it's >gotta be either pure or we'll hate it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. Maybe if you >heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you may have second thoughts. Much of what >we like may not be exactly what we hear, but what we think we know. For me, what's great about a live recording is that you're hearing what the folks who actually went to the show are hearing. For that, only an unadulterated recording will do. For those who aren't familiar with them, the Grateful Dead's Dick's Picks series are untouched except for noise reduction or to correct flaws in the original tapes. Some of them still have noise, drop-outs, etc., from the original recordings, or will have parts where the band missed a change, flubbed lyrics, or just plain screwed up. Overall, though, these recordings are remarkable for the overall feel or for rare performances of a particular song or for performances at a particular venue. I'd love to hear more from '77 and '78, and would really like to hear some of the early Zodiak club shows or at least something from that era. I think Ed sees a lot of that stuff as kind of embarassing now, but I disagree. It's historical, IMHO. So, how about 'Vic's Picks'? Scott Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31066 Re: TD concert trading Synthhtnys@a... Sun 1/6/2002 2 KB From: scfeldman@j... Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:13 pm Subject: More Interesting Tidbits About Giorgio Moroder's Introduction to Synths Hi Kiddies, This time, there are two TD references in here (one to Florian Fricke and one to Klaus Schulze): Steven Feldman --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Raimo =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E4kinen?= To: moroder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 14:53:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [moroder] Digest Number 494 Don't know anything about Dan Wyman unfortunately but I think the unnamed avant garde German composer was (and still is) Eberhard Schoener. He was the first German who bought the Big Moog back in 1969 (?) and paid 800,000 German Marks for the privilige. Eberhard introduced Florian Fricke (RIP) then to the possibilities of Moog synthesizer and Florian was the second who bought the Big Moog in 1970(?). Florian Fricke (Popol Vuh) then made the first experimental Moog album called Affenstunde in 1970. Later in 1975 Fricke sold his Moog to Klaus Schulze and the rest is history. So we have to possibilities: Fricke or Schoener. Both lived in Munich. My guess goes for Schoener. Cheers, Raimo >Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:34:17 +0000 >From: clive_eurodisco >Subject: Dan Wyman > >> From: 'pressplaydebasia' > By the way, don't you love Dan Wyman? > > I do - and I'd love to know more about him. In the >interview with Moroder on Sound On Sound magazine's website, >he mentions a helpful engineer who first introduced him to >the Moog synthesiser. I wonder if this might be Mr Wyman? > > This guy actually used to 'smuggle' Moroder into the >studio where an unnamed avant garde German composer >(Stockhausen?) kept his Moog which was basically used for >just the odd, atonal sound. The engineer would demonstrate >how much more the machine could do musically and got >Moroder's interest going... > > If anyone knows anything more about Dan Wyman please >let us know. > >Clive [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: TD concert trading In a message dated 1/6/2002 12:56:30 PM Central Standard Time, splumer@w... writes: > . So, how about 'Vic's Picks'? > > Scott > > *Best idea/comparison to the situation I know of. Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'horrod6' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 7:36 pm Subject: Another nice pair Calm down Frank! By pure chance (had my player set to 'shuffle') I listened to 'Epsilon in Malaysian Pale' followed by AirSculpture's 'Fjord Transit' today (tracks, not albums). IMO they make a really nice combination, flowing together very smoothly. I have only listened to Fjord Transit a couple of times, so it hadn't had time to really grow on me up to now. To begin with I thought it was a bit tame after the stuff I'd heard John and Pete play in the swamp, but listening to it this way, it's really grown on me. $00.02 LnH Marion [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 12:08 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Concerning later KS I find Sebastian im (im, not in) Traum maybe the best of KS's ambient/experimental/whatever pieces of music. It's a great exploration of sounds, with melodies coming and going and being born and dying... maybe with time you'll like it. It's just a matter of taste anyway... The Audentity booklet has a nice written interpretation of the album. The title says 'The story of Sebastian and a search for self-identity via the sounds and music of Klaus Schulze'. It was written by Garry Havrillay, from Radio 3PBS-FM from Melbourne, Australia. >I'm afraid I completely can't understand some things >from 80s KS material... For example Sebastian in Traum >from Audentity - is it a joke or what? And there are >many other tracks that are close to this annoying >style, even Sense from Live which seems to be very >popular on the official KS website. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: TheInfection Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 10:06 am Subject: Re: Vangelis - Spiral --- horrod6 wrote: > Hi Infection: > > just wanted to congratulate you on your choice of > Van Gelis' _Spiral_. It's > my absolute favourite VG. I hope you managed to get > it and are enjoying it > by now! > > LnH > > Marion Yup, got it. The title track is the best. Ballad is somewhat boring and I don't like the wordless vocals too much. Dervish D is bright track. To the Unknown Man has nice on going rythms and good melody. 3+3 doesn't give much for me. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 10:25 am Subject: Want list Hi Gang, I now have a TD want list which one can find at 'http://members.tripod.de/Network23/wants.html' Please email me off-list in case you have something on that list and would like to part with it :-) Regards Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31086 Re: Want list RJF Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 34216 Want list Heiko Heerssen Tue 6/4/2002 2 KB 34225 Re: Want list chris towers Tue 6/4/2002 3 KB From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 2:17 pm Subject: Re: Frank Herbert Hi, ...and I remember to have seen somewhere on a KS album - I guess its on (or better 'in' - gatefold) of 'live' - a photo with a copy of the book 'Dune' flying around... armin, back from Bulgaria, covered in snow --- In tadream@y..., Gustavo Jobim wrote: > I'm pretty sure it's the author of Dune; the album released after X was Dune... > > >Track 3 on X is titled 'Frank Herbert'. Did KS mean > >the author of Dune or it's just a coincedence? > > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 3:40 pm Subject: Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' Apparently there is a Japanese band named Do As Infinity that had a first album named 'Tangerine Dream'. (Wonder if Edgar knows about this one!) From the track names I'd guess it is a dub album (TD, Wings, Simple Minds). Beware! I found a place that was selling it as a Tangerine Dream rarity for big $$$$. Ciao -- Mark -- Sig: Check out http://www.audiogalaxy.com/groups/group.php?&gID=180990 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31085 Re: Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' Joe Shoults Mon 1/7/2002 3 KB From: mengels@w... Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 4:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Concerning later KS >>I'm afraid I completely can't understand some things >>from 80s KS material... For example Sebastian in Traum >>from Audentity - is it a joke or what? And there are >>many other tracks that are close to this annoying >>style, even Sense from Live which seems to be very >>popular on the official KS website. Some of the things from the 80s I don't like either but Sense from Live is a super-classic imo. One of his better live 70s tracks. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl mengels@w... ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 4:59 pm Subject: Re: Quadrophonic Hi, that concept of making the difference audible... is that the trick suggested on Brian Eno's 'Ambient' LP-s? I vaguely remember that the cover notes explain how to connect a third speaker using not a signal and ground but both signals from both outputs (left and right) and to get some more spacial effect - with three speakers, not four. So you sit in a triangle of speakers. Which makes sense, as three points define a plane. a. --- In tadream@y..., 'John Marchington' wrote: > I don't think you're totally correct about this, Mark. If I remember > correctly, there were three different types of quadraphony used in the days > of LPs: QS, SQ and CD-4 (and the latter had nothing to do with compact > disc!). The first two used forms of sum and difference modulation to combine > the four channels into two so that they could be played with a standard > stereo cartridge, while the CD-4 method used a very high frequency carrier > (about 45kHz) and the four channels of audio were modulated on that as sum > and difference signals -- a bit like stereo FM. Clearly, the latter required > the use of a cartridge that would respond to those HF signals. Inevitably, > cantilever resonances meant that there was going to be a fairly high degree > of groove wear with the latter as well. Not surprisingly, all three systems > were incompatible with one another (shades of SACD and DVD-A?) and thus > required their own special decoders to reconstruct the four channels of > audio. One could get away with using separate amplifiers for the rear > channels and feeding the out-of-phase signals from the front channels to > them, but the results weren't very impressive (at least with SQ, which was > all I had). That, and the mechanical constraints of cartridges and records > that existed at the time, generally meant that none of them were likely to > take off in a big way. > > The situation is completely different with both SACD and DVD-A and its quite > likely that spectacular results can be obtained from a really good, well set > up multi-channel system with either of the above. In my opinion, however, > that will require a large room with all the speakers at a reasonable > distance from the listener(s) so that detail (even if it is just ambience) > from all channels can be experienced. I don't have that luxury, so I'm > sticking with stereo. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Mark Filipak' > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic > > > > I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side to side > (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations up and > down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The record > plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but a quad > phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back channels. > Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look like > the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is being > decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back channels are > not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the soundspace > (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was > impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money for a quad > phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the story > with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. > > > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases were quad: > > > > 'Alpha Centauri' > > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > > > 'Zeit' > > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. I'll > resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > > > Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware engineer) > > > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I haven't > > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. I've got > some > > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where you have > > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > > > James > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > > > To: tadream@y... > > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel audio. > > > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how many of > > > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that there was > > > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > > > dummy... you > > > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, but I > > > > > could be > > > > > wrong... > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic Some system amp's use this method to double the power as well to your speaker so beware. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'armin_theissen' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:59 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > Hi, > > that concept of making the difference audible... is that > the trick suggested on Brian Eno's 'Ambient' LP-s? I vaguely > remember that the cover notes explain how to connect a third > speaker using not a signal and ground but both signals from > both outputs (left and right) and to get some more spacial > effect - with three speakers, not four. So you sit in a triangle > of speakers. Which makes sense, as three points define a plane. > > a. > > --- In tadream@y..., 'John Marchington' wrote: > > I don't think you're totally correct about this, Mark. If I remember > > correctly, there were three different types of quadraphony used in > the days > > of LPs: QS, SQ and CD-4 (and the latter had nothing to do with > compact > > disc!). The first two used forms of sum and difference modulation to > combine > > the four channels into two so that they could be played with a > standard > > stereo cartridge, while the CD-4 method used a very high frequency > carrier > > (about 45kHz) and the four channels of audio were modulated on that > as sum > > and difference signals -- a bit like stereo FM. Clearly, the latter > required > > the use of a cartridge that would respond to those HF signals. > Inevitably, > > cantilever resonances meant that there was going to be a fairly high > degree > > of groove wear with the latter as well. Not surprisingly, all three > systems > > were incompatible with one another (shades of SACD and DVD-A?) and > thus > > required their own special decoders to reconstruct the four channels > of > > audio. One could get away with using separate amplifiers for the > rear > > channels and feeding the out-of-phase signals from the front > channels to > > them, but the results weren't very impressive (at least with SQ, > which was > > all I had). That, and the mechanical constraints of cartridges and > records > > that existed at the time, generally meant that none of them were > likely to > > take off in a big way. > > > > The situation is completely different with both SACD and DVD-A and > its quite > > likely that spectacular results can be obtained from a really good, > well set > > up multi-channel system with either of the above. In my opinion, > however, > > that will require a large room with all the speakers at a reasonable > > distance from the listener(s) so that detail (even if it is just > ambience) > > from all channels can be experienced. I don't have that luxury, so > I'm > > sticking with stereo. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'Mark Filipak' > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Quadrophonic > > > > > > > I'll try to take this, James. I believe that in addition to side > to side > > (front channels), a quadrophonic record groove also has modulations > up and > > down to add 2 extra (back) channels (for a total of 4, not 5). The > record > > plays in stereo with a phono pickup that only goes side to side, but > a quad > > phono cartridge (that can go up and down) will pick up the back > channels. > > Since the grove is basically v-shaped, the up and down makes it look > like > > the groove gets wider and narrower, but it's the up and down that is > being > > decoded. Since up and down can make the stylis bounce, the back > channels are > > not as pronounced as the front channels but they do fill out the > soundspace > > (much like home theater). I heard quad stereo back in the 70s. I was > > impressed, but not so impressed that I actually put out the money > for a quad > > phono cartridge, preamp, and amp. I guess that was pretty much the > story > > with quad vinyl and explains why it didn't take off. > > > > > > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl releases > were quad: > > > > > > 'Alpha Centauri' > > > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > > > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > > > > > 'Zeit' > > > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > > > > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > > > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > > > > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad album. > I'll > > resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > > > > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is > solicited. > > > > > > Ciao -- Mark (not a sound engineer, but a computer hardware > engineer) > > > > > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in Quadrophonic. I > haven't > > > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic system. > I've got > > some > > > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, where > you have > > > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: vic rek [mailto:tangerinedream@a...] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 3:36 PM > > > > > To: tadream@y... > > > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: first SACD/Klemania > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Atem was also released as a quadrophonic LP and later > > > > > repackaged with Alpha Centauri. > > > > > > > > > > Vic > > > > > > > > > > windfall_123 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a pity that Rubycon SACD does not contain multichannel > audio. > > > > > > That news remind me of the question my friend asked me - how > many of > > > > > > multichannel recordings from TD are available? I know that > there was > > > > > > quadraphonic Alpha Centauri LP, but was it one of a kind? > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, 'Rubycon' is the first released. Virgin's no > > > > > dummy... you > > > > > > collector types out there, get ready to open your wallets! > > > > > > > >FTS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first Virgin SACD was actually Tubular Bells, > but I > > > > > > could be > > > > > > wrong... > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@y... > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Dmitriy V N Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: Re: Concerning later KS >I find Sebastian im (im, not in) Traum maybe the best of KS's >ambient/experimental/whatever pieces of music. > Really 'im'... I forgot it's german, not english. BTW what is 'Traum'? >It's a great exploration of >sounds, with melodies coming and going and being born and dying... maybe with >time you'll like it. It's just a matter of taste anyway... > Yeah, just another 30 years and I'll like it, I suppose. >The Audentity >booklet has a nice written interpretation of the album. The title says 'The >story of Sebastian and a search for self-identity via the sounds and music of >Klaus Schulze'. It was written by Garry Havrillay, from Radio 3PBS-FM from >Melbourne, Australia. > Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont like. Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31077 Re: Concerning later KS zathrus13 Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB 31089 Re: Concerning later KS Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/7/2002 4 KB From: 'zathrus13' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 5:40 pm Subject: Re: Concerning later KS > Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite > tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival > Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other > related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont > like. > > Regards, > Dmitriy Funny how things work....The Dome Event is one of my favorites...it cover a lot of different styles and themes.... Jeff From: Erik Sanborn Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 6:09 pm Subject: Re: Quadrophonic > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > From: 'Admin' (snip) >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I remember reading >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player that I keep in >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > >Dale (delurking for a moment...) I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated quad 8-track player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among other things, poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of difference in the 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and get slightly better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play the same album on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being blown away by Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the sound image was sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to me. An added bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two programs instead of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be faded out and back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 suffered from all the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that they went the way of the dodo. Regards, Erik From: 'Michael Jean' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Haslinger website has been completely redone www.haslinger.com Regards, Michael A. Jean The Brookings Institution, Room 821 1775 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20036-2188 TEL: (202)-797-6214 FAX: (202)-797-2479 EMAIL: mjean@b... http://www.brookings.edu [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31084 Haslinger website has been completely redone tei waz Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 7:13 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Quadrophonic It may be AlphaCent/Atem double LP... I'll have to check The album is at my parents' house about 7 hours from here, so I'll get the info when I'm up there next. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Further, my information is that the following TD vinyl > releases were quad: > > 'Alpha Centauri' > [1971] PDU (IT) PLD SQ 5096 > [1975] Ohr/Cosmic Couriers (FR) S 940 509 > > 'Zeit' > [1974] PDU (IT) PIM SQ 6010/11 > > 'Alpha Centauri'+'Atem' > [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU > > I don't show 'Atem' as being released on its own as a quad > album. I'll resolve this with Vic, offlist. > > Information from anyone else who has quad 'Atem' vinyl is solicited. > > 'Owens, James' wrote: > > > > I believe I have the Atem/Alpha Cent 2LP set in > Quadrophonic. I haven't > > played it in years, and I've never had a quadrophonic > system. I've got some > > classical LPs in Quad too. > > > > Do these actually have 4 grooves, or is it like surround, > where you have > > only 2 channels that get decoded into 5? > > > > James From: 'H.' Date: Sun Jan 6, 2002 11:01 pm Subject: AW: [tadream] TD concert tapes Hi. how comes? didn't those old synths also do 20 Hz till 20kHz? Herbert -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: Admin [mailto:admin@k...] Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Januar 2002 23:07 An: tadream@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [tadream] TD concert tapes How right you are on this. Small thing to bear in mind is, the frequency range of 1970s synths was limited enough, so you might not be missing as much as you fear on these old tapes. ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'simonfay2001' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 6:57 pm Subject: Tatort Music Dug out my old old tape of the 'Das Maedchen Auf Der Treppe' 12' and wondered what 'Daydream' is like. I presume the 1997 'DMADT' was a travesty...? Is there any other music by TD floating around for this series? It seems to have run for a good few years - anyone in Germany back then able to tell me anything about the show? thanks SF Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31087 Re: Tatort Music scfeldman@j... Mon 1/7/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:08 pm Subject: Spock What a DEAL! I guess Spock was sort of my idol as a kid. I read the encyclopedia a lot and gathered as much information as I could about everything imaginable. I got a reputation early on as a 'smarty-pants' because I remember most everything I ever knew... Live Long and Prosper! > -----Original Message----- > At 02.01.05 22:38, horrod6 wrote: > >'Best LOTR song: Ballad of Bilbo Baggins sung by Leonard Nimoy....' > > > >ROFLMAO > > Many years ago I found an *autographed* copy of the > LP 'The Two > Faces of Leonard Nimoy' which has TBoBB on it as well as his classic > 'Totally Illogical' > Paid $5 for it. From: 'tei waz' Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:33 pm Subject: re:Haslinger website has been completely redone >Haslinger website has been completely redone from Paul's chronology (at www.haslinger.com): >1987 [...] Mill Valley Film Festival Live Performance< What's with this performance?--edgar's got the year wrong (1983?) on antique dreams and paul's got it wrong on his chronology. It was 1986! I know, I was there. --T _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' There's a link to one of their songs on our 'Audio Links' page at http://www.tadream.net. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 10:40 AM > To: Beyond_EM; Tadream > Subject: [tadream] Do As Infinity 'Tangerine Dream' > > > Apparently there is a Japanese band named Do As Infinity that > had a first album named 'Tangerine Dream'. (Wonder if Edgar > knows about this one!) From the track names I'd guess it is a > dub album (TD, Wings, Simple Minds). Beware! I found a place > that was selling it as a Tangerine Dream rarity for big $$$$. > > Ciao -- Mark > -- > Sig: Check out http://www.audiogalaxy.com/groups/group.php?&gID=180990 > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: RJF Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Want list In message <3C3977B3.58B70565@h...>, Heiko Heerssen writes >Hi Gang, >I now have a TD want list which one can find at >'http://members.tripod.de/Network23/wants.html' >Please email me off-list in case you have something on that list and >would like to part with it :-) > >Regards >Heiko Not impressed by your site with the annoying advert. Will never go there again! -- Richard F From: scfeldman@j... Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 9:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tatort Music On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:57:41 -0000 'simonfay2001' writes: >Dug out my old old tape of the 'Das Maedchen Auf Der Treppe' >12' and wondered what 'Daydream' is like. I presume the >1997 'DMADT' was a travesty...? Um, hardly -- and it was recently re-issued as track 7 on DREAM MIXES III. Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 9:53 pm Subject: Paul Ellis plug (was RE: [tadream] Re: TD concert trading) I may have done this before, but I'll offer an enthusiastic plug for Pauls 'Into the Liquid Unknown'. Absolutely fantastic! Support one of our own (listmember musicians) and order it now! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Synthhtnys@a... [mailto:Synthhtnys@a...] ... > splumer@w... writes: > > . So, how about 'Vic's Picks'? ... > *Best idea/comparison to the situation I know of. > Paul Ellis > Binary recordings - www.hypnos.com > 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. np: IQ - Subterranea Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31100 Re: Paul Ellis plug (was RE: [tadream] Re: TD co Synthhtnys@a... Tue 1/8/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Jan 7, 2002 10:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS >Really 'im'... I forgot it's german, not english. BTW >what is 'Traum'? Traum means 'dream'. >Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite >tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival >Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other >related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont >like. Royal Festival Hall is one of my first contacts with KS. I had heard and liked a lot 2 tracks from Beyond Recall, from the same period (the Gringo Nero intro and specially Brave Old Sequence), and I found RFH Vol.1 for rent, so I rented it and made a CDR copy for myself. I still have that copy. At first, I didn't like it at all; things took such a long time to happen - the intro, a bunch of various samples (it was KS's sampling period, the early 90s), was so hard to listen to. But I was interested in hearing all of it, so I heard and the first thing I liked was the constant pulse that underlined all the music. Still, for me it was a strange and hard album to listen to (as Zeit), I only liked the climaxes: Yearning, in track 1, and Fire-Riser, a spectacular sequenced section from track 2 (a studio bonus in the album). Every time I listened to this CD (I rarely did, actually) I liked it more, and noticed the very subtle development of the music (as happens with the majority of KS's music). Now I regard RFH Vol.1 an excellent album with very interesting music. I never heard the others you mentioned, nor RFH Vol.2. -GJ p.s. Zeit remains a strange and hard album. At least I've managed to find the remaster for a very very good price (one third the regular price of imported CDs), so I just had to buy it. One less CDR to substitute... But I like Zeit, just because it's a very well done work. The music is hard to listen, but it's just a perfect Largo in 4 Movements with all that space conotation the album cover and track titles have. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 12:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages involved that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit hazy about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, with the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) terminals of the amplifier outputs, and with the speakers' negative terminals then connected together. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'armin_theissen' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 5:59 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > Hi, > > that concept of making the difference audible... is that > the trick suggested on Brian Eno's 'Ambient' LP-s? I vaguely > remember that the cover notes explain how to connect a third > speaker using not a signal and ground but both signals from > both outputs (left and right) and to get some more spacial > effect - with three speakers, not four. So you sit in a triangle > of speakers. Which makes sense, as three points define a plane. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 12:10 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is positive to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the math, generally by half.) Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Marchington' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages involved > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit hazy > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, with > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 12:44 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS I've got all those albums and I'm beginning to think that Klaus often 'plays' with his audiences; i.e. there is a fair amount of 'tongue-in-cheek' in his music and the way he presents it. That female voice ('Is that it?') for example. There are other occasions when he will suddenly change tempo or dynamics when one least expects it and race off in another direction. You either like that or you don't. There are all sorts of extraordinary noises in the RFH concerts and 'Beyond Recall' as well, for example. I'm sure it's all part of his act and you either love him for it -- or hate it. Personally, I find it all immensely fascinating and it often makes TD seem rather ordinary in comparison. I also agree that 'Sebastian im Traum' from 'Audentity' is brilliant with Wolfgang Tiepold's cello playing a feature of the album generally -- as it is elsewhere. I'm also very fond of 'Moondawn', 'The Dresden Performance' and 'Are You Sequenced?' sets, but right from 'Irrlicht' onwards, all the albums have something positive to offer, although I'm a trifle luke-warm about 'Dune' and some of 'Dosburg Online' at this stage and I'm still after an English translation for 'Totentag'. In general musical terms, I love his sense of rhythm and the way he uses modulation (changes in key) so effectively. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Gustavo Jobim' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS > > >Really 'im'... I forgot it's german, not english. BTW > >what is 'Traum'? > > Traum means 'dream'. > > >Well, I see you defend almost all my unfavourite > >tracks:) Then what's your opinion on Royal Festival > >Hall, The Dome Event, Das Wagner Desaster & other > >related stuff? It's another group of albums I dont > >like. > > Royal Festival Hall is one of my first contacts with KS. > I had heard and liked a lot 2 tracks from Beyond Recall, > from the same period (the Gringo Nero intro and specially > Brave Old Sequence), and I found RFH Vol.1 for rent, so > I rented it and made a CDR copy for myself. I still have > that copy. > > At first, I didn't like it at all; things took such a long > time to happen - the intro, a bunch of various samples (it was > KS's sampling period, the early 90s), was so hard to listen to. > But I was interested in hearing all of it, so I heard and the first > thing I liked was the constant pulse that underlined all the music. > Still, for me it was a strange and hard album to listen to (as Zeit), > I only liked the climaxes: Yearning, in track 1, and Fire-Riser, a > spectacular sequenced section from track 2 (a studio bonus in the > album). Every time I listened to this CD (I rarely did, actually) > I liked it more, and noticed the very subtle development of the music > (as happens with the majority of KS's music). Now I regard RFH Vol.1 > an excellent album with very interesting music. > > I never heard the others you mentioned, nor RFH Vol.2. > > -GJ > > p.s. Zeit remains a strange and hard album. At least I've managed to > find the remaster for a very very good price (one third the regular > price of imported CDs), so I just had to buy it. One less CDR to > substitute... > But I like Zeit, just because it's a very well done work. The music > is hard to listen, but it's just a perfect Largo in 4 Movements > with all that space conotation the album cover and track titles have. > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 1:23 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if they were connected in parallel. With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half the impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater than each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is positive > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the math, > generally by half.) > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'John Marchington' > To: > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > involved > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit > hazy > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, with > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 2:33 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic Ok, I missunderstood you. Do you remember the Carvin Sonic Holography processors in the 80's? I liked mine very much till it was borrowed permently one day. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Marchington' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not > connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if they > were connected in parallel. > With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously > varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the > combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half the > impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater than > each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is > positive > > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the > math, > > generally by half.) > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > admin@k... > > 661-723-0266 > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'John Marchington' > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > > involved > > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a bit > > hazy > > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, > with > > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 2:59 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic No I'm afraid I don't recall that processor. When you say 'borrowed' do you mean that you loaned it to someone who then disappeared unexpectedly without returning it to you -- or was it simply stolen. Either way, I'm obviously sorry for you. A friend of mine had his house burgled while he was down staying with my brother and me last weekend -- CD player, video recorder and other equipment stolen. I admit I worry about the safety of my gear -- and all my TD, KS and other EM CDs! It's all insured --- but that won't necessarily enable it to be replaced. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Admin' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > Ok, I missunderstood you. Do you remember the Carvin Sonic Holography > processors in the 80's? I liked mine very much till it was borrowed > permently one day. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'John Marchington' > To: > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:23 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not > > connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if > they > > were connected in parallel. > > With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously > > varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the > > combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half > the > > impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater than > > each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > > > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is > > positive > > > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > > > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the > > math, > > > generally by half.) > > > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > > admin@k... > > > 661-723-0266 > > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: 'John Marchington' > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > > > involved > > > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a > bit > > > hazy > > > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in series, > > with > > > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 3:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic Stolen would be the word, well over 10k worth in the mid 90's. I been replacing every since. The Insurance did not cover it all at all. I had to go to court and settle for far less than it was worth. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'John Marchington' To: Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > No I'm afraid I don't recall that processor. When you say 'borrowed' do you > mean that you loaned it to someone who then disappeared unexpectedly without > returning it to you -- or was it simply stolen. Either way, I'm obviously > sorry for you. A friend of mine had his house burgled while he was down > staying with my brother and me last weekend -- CD player, video recorder and > other equipment stolen. I admit I worry about the safety of my gear -- and > all my TD, KS and other EM CDs! It's all insured --- but that won't > necessarily enable it to be replaced. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Admin' > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:33 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > Ok, I missunderstood you. Do you remember the Carvin Sonic Holography > > processors in the 80's? I liked mine very much till it was borrowed > > permently one day. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: 'John Marchington' > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > I used the term 'series' merely to indicate that the speakers were not > > > connected across each other, as two resistors or capacitors would be if > > they > > > were connected in parallel. > > > With signal, the phase relationships are both complex and continuously > > > varying and I wouldn't like to say what the resultant impedance of the > > > combination was an any point in time. It might well be effectively half > > the > > > impedance of each speaker at some point; but it might also be greater > than > > > each at some other moment when the phase relationships change. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 1:10 PM > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > > This would be called parallel. Series is positive to negative on the > > > > speakers then one positive to amp, one negative to amp. parallel is > > > positive > > > > to positive, negative to negative, same to the amp. Series will add > > > > impedance, parallel will reduce it (simple rule with out going in the > > > math, > > > > generally by half.) > > > > > > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > > > > admin@k... > > > > 661-723-0266 > > > > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: 'John Marchington' > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:02 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've shortened this 'tree' as there were so many previous messages > > > > involved > > > > > that I'm sure Joe was starting to get upset about it. I admit I'm a > > bit > > > > hazy > > > > > about this but THINK I had two speakers in the rear channels with my > > > > > pseudo-SQ setup. I seem to recall I connected the speakers in > series, > > > with > > > > > the positive terminals of each connected to the positive (non-earth) > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 4:44 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic That's terrible! I did lend a pre-amp I once built to a friend of mine -- and never saw it again. (Did I say friend?) I also loaned an LP to someone who was flatting nearby and when I went around to collect it a fortnight or so later, he had gone with no forwarding address and taken the disc with him. Apart from those two incidents, I've been lucky although you soon learn not to trust people!. I know someone else whose been burgled four times with a CD player and CDs taken on each occasion. On the last occasion she arrived home from work -- and from the hallway wondered how she could see her back lawn when she hadn't been able to see it previously from there. It was only when she got to the kitchen that she realised the back door had been smashed off its hinges and what remained of it was leaning against the rear wall outside. The culprits were eventually apprehended -- young teenagers -- but she never got anything back and her insurance company started to become rather uncooperative after a while. Apart from not having an alarm at the time (which she was instructed to buy), she always locked all doors and windows when out. I'll be interested to find if the friend I spoke about earlier recovers his equipment. The CD player and video player stolen were originally ours which we had given him. He suspects a neighbour. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Admin' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > Stolen would be the word, well over 10k worth in the mid 90's. I been > replacing every since. The Insurance did not cover it all at all. I had to > go to court and settle for far less than it was worth. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 4:51 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS In a message dated 1/7/02 4:45:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, johnm@p... writes: << I've got all those albums and I'm beginning to think that Klaus often 'plays' with his audiences; i.e. there is a fair amount of 'tongue-in-cheek' in his music and the way he presents it. That female voice ('Is that it?') for example. *My only problem is that samples like that were so incredibly overplayed in the albums from the 80's through the 90's... Though he lately seems to have finally moved on and is trying something different. (even though highly recognizable as Schulze) Personally, I find it all immensely fascinating and it often makes TD seem rather ordinary in comparison. *Even with my criticisms of him I'd agree somewhat. Schulze seems to have stayed with a more visionary approach where TD has delved into more mainstream styles.. (Though I love DM3) but right from 'Irrlicht' onwards, all the albums have something positive to offer, *Yup. although I'm a trifle luke-warm about 'Dune' and some of 'Dosburg Online' at this stage *I'd throw Dig it and Angst in as mediocre 'Weird Caravan may be one of the worst things he ever did IMO. and I'm still after an English translation for 'Totentag'. In general musical terms, I love his sense of rhythm and the way he uses modulation (changes in key) so effectively. >> *Absolutely. His key changes are one thing that sets him apart. Poly From: 'Greg' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 5:19 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS It amazes me whenever you guys talk about Schulze. On just about every e-mail regarding this musician, there is always mentioned some Schulze album I have never heard of! Is this guy prolific or what?! Greg H. From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:28 am Subject: Re: Paul Ellis plug (was RE: [tadream] Re: TD concert trading) In a message dated 1/7/02 1:40:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, jshoults@f... writes: << I may have done this before, but I'll offer an enthusiastic plug for Pauls 'Into the Liquid Unknown'. Absolutely fantastic! Support one of our own (listmember musicians) and order it now! Joe >> *Thanks Joe. Your comments are appreciated. The response so far has been fantastic! If anyone's interested they can hear soundbites at www.hypnos.com Click on the Binary section on the left side and scroll down to Binary sound bites... that'll give you a little taste... Peace out Poly From: 'John Marchington' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 9:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS He certainly is. Might I suggest you visit his official website and check his discography at http://www.klaus-schulze.com/disco/welcome.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Greg' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Concerning later KS > It amazes me whenever you guys talk about Schulze. On just about every > e-mail regarding this musician, there is always mentioned some Schulze album > I have never heard of! Is this guy prolific or what?! > > Greg H. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 2:20 pm Subject: Some (legal) CD's for sale or trade Having returned from my winter sojourn in the United Kingdom, I went into the roof of my old place and retreived three CD's that might be of interest to the collectors. Needless to say, after what's been said here recently, they are all legal. So I would like to sell or trade the following: TANGERINE DREAM: Shepherd's Bush (No 1211 out of a limited edition of 2000) TDI006CD TANGERINE DREAM: Quinoa (original TDIFC edition on Volt records (VOLT 0001 CD MXMII) CHRISTOPHER FRANKE:Bridge to Eternity (strange shaped, but playable, picture disc (SONIC IMAGES 37 392-414) Please contact me off-list if interested. Roger Hartopp -- Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'horrod6' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 6:47 pm Subject: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) Jim, I dug out my 1976 Virgin copy (VD 2504) of this. There's nothing in the sleeve notes, and the record labels say 'Stereo'. However, on the outside back cover it does say 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Having never owned a quad system, I can't comment further. LnH Marion Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31109 Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophoni Mark Filipak Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31119 Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophoni Erik Sanborn Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:06 pm Subject: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Erik, I'd like to hear the sound of this. Do you think it's possible to encode the four channels into 4 channels of Dolby Surround (leave out the center channel and playback in 'Phantom' mode)? Another possibility would be the soundblaster Live soundcard, which has a four-speaker mode. I'm sure there's a way to record in on four channels so you can output in four channel mode. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:10 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > > From: 'Admin' > > (snip) > > >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I > remember reading > >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player > that I keep in > >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > > > >Dale > > (delurking for a moment...) > > I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated > quad 8-track > player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. > > The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among > other things, > poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four > channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of > difference in the > 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and > get slightly > better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play > the same album > on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being > blown away by > Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the > sound image was > sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to > me. An added > bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two > programs instead > of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be > faded out and > back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 > suffered from all > the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that > they went the > way of the dodo. > > Regards, > > Erik > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31105 Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 1/8/2002 6 KB 31121 Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Erik Sanborn Wed 1/9/2002 5 KB 31133 Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track Owens, James Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tubular Bells Quad-8track better yet why not redo this song in midi take the different tracks output to the surround processor then play back with a 5.1 system? I have several midi of Tubular Bells. I am one version I have reworked a lot. It almost sounds like the record. I have played with the 5.1 process a bit now and yes, it can be a wonderful experience. This was what I was referring to in a eerier post when I mentioned I have been playing with sound placement in a small room with my synths. My next project will be to take Tangram and redo it similar to Tubular Bells. This is for personal enjoyment, not for resale or anything else in case I raise some eye brows here. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Owens, James' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 11:06 AM Subject: [tadream] Tubular Bells Quad-8track > Erik, > > I'd like to hear the sound of this. Do you think it's possible to encode > the four channels into 4 channels of Dolby Surround (leave out the center > channel and playback in 'Phantom' mode)? Another possibility would be the > soundblaster Live soundcard, which has a four-speaker mode. I'm sure > there's a way to record in on four channels so you can output in four > channel mode. > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:10 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > > > From: 'Admin' > > > > (snip) > > > > >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I > > remember reading > > >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player > > that I keep in > > >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > > > > > >Dale > > > > (delurking for a moment...) > > > > I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated > > quad 8-track > > player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. > > > > The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among > > other things, > > poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four > > channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of > > difference in the > > 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and > > get slightly > > better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play > > the same album > > on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being > > blown away by > > Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the > > sound image was > > sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to > > me. An added > > bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two > > programs instead > > of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be > > faded out and > > back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 > > suffered from all > > the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that > > they went the > > way of the dodo. > > > > Regards, > > > > Erik > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 7:38 pm Subject: Burglary (was : RE: Quadrophonic) I had nearly everything of value extracted from my house while I was on temporary assignment in California. Insurance paid for most everything (except for some of my wife's jewelry) and I got a nicer stereo out of the deal. The insurance company (of course) immediately cancelled my insurance. I had to get high-risk insurance after that until I moved into a new house. Fortunately they only grabbed one shelf of CDs, and that was primarily pop (I did loose the first Enya CD - which is out of print - and a pretty rare Enya single). They didn't get a single TD disc, but they did get most of my Genesis. > -----Original Message----- > From: John Marchington [mailto:johnm@p...] > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 10:45 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > That's terrible! I did lend a pre-amp I once built to a > friend of mine -- > and never saw it again. (Did I say friend?) I also loaned an > LP to someone > who was flatting nearby and when I went around to collect it > a fortnight or > so later, he had gone with no forwarding address and taken > the disc with > him. Apart from those two incidents, I've been lucky although > you soon learn > not to trust people!. I know someone else whose been burgled > four times with > a CD player and CDs taken on each occasion. On the last > occasion she arrived > home from work -- and from the hallway wondered how she could > see her back > lawn when she hadn't been able to see it previously from > there. It was only > when she got to the kitchen that she realised the back door > had been smashed > off its hinges and what remained of it was leaning against > the rear wall > outside. The culprits were eventually apprehended -- young > teenagers -- but > she never got anything back and her insurance company started > to become > rather uncooperative after a while. Apart from not having an > alarm at the > time (which she was instructed to buy), she always locked all > doors and > windows when out. I'll be interested to find if the friend I > spoke about > earlier recovers his equipment. The CD player and video > player stolen were > originally ours which we had given him. He suspects a neighbour. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 'Admin' > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:19 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > Stolen would be the word, well over 10k worth in the mid > 90's. I been > > replacing every since. The Insurance did not cover it all > at all. I had to > > go to court and settle for far less than it was worth. > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Tue Jan 8, 2002 8:06 pm Subject: Release date New ASHRA Hi all, the official Release date of the both NEW Releases The Making of ... and @shra Vol. 2 you can find on www.tribute-to-ashra.de Regards heiko / burg / germany http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'theta2.geo' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 9:57 am Subject: Barrie J. Vanenbergh??? Does anybody know what happened to Barrie J. Vanenbergh (=Hans-Joachim Schmitz) (see CD-sampler 'Syntonic Waves Vol. 6')? Any news about him and/ or his music? Andreas From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 11:00 am Subject: Re: [tadream] AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) Marion. Could you supply more information, please. What you have is NOT SUPPOSED to be quad.! Here's the info I have ________________________________________________________________________ Alpha Centauri + Atem __________________ __/ Recordings - AAA \________________________________________________ LPx2 - Disk 1: 'Alpha Centauri', Disk 2: 'Atem' [1976] Virgin (DE) 87761 [1976] Virgin/Dischi (IT) [1976] Virgin (GB) VD 2504 AORL 28376 [1976] Virgin (DE) 267 6712 [1976] Virgin/PolyGram (CA) [1976] Virgin (DE) 28 990 XBU VMD 2222 (quadraphonic) [1976] Virgin/Festival (AU) [1976] Brain (DE) 2/1082 L-45751/52 [19??] Rel. (CA) 88561-8069-1 ________________________________________________________________________ Is your VD 2504 a UK pressing? Are you sure it's VD 2504? -- check the labels and the album jacket. Could the album jacket have gotten mixed up with a German release? Wondering... Ciao (mein) -- Mark horrod6 wrote: > > I dug out my 1976 Virgin copy (VD 2504) of this. There's nothing in the > sleeve notes, and the record labels say 'Stereo'. However, on the outside > back cover it does say 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Having never owned a > quad system, I can't comment further. > > LnH > > Marion From: 'koulos' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 12:52 pm Subject: audio cd 22 dear all you may the type of td-list member that listen to td music and are not interested in collecting strange things but for those of you that do collect anything td related this is for you it came acroos my hands before Xmas and i am not trading it but i have my eyes open if i came across another. it a cd provided by a greek magazine named AUDIO you can see scan's of the cd at the following web site http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/cover.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/backcover.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/front.jpg http://users.eone.gr/kostas-ektt/back.jpg there is also a image of the inside of the booklet [in greek language] that i will upload later thanxs and i am waiting to hear if anyone else out there know of this certain cd [it is a rumor that TD appeared in another AUDIO cd too but i have not found it yet -still looking ] all the best kostas from greece [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'armin_theissen' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 1:21 pm Subject: http://www.elektropolis.de/ Hi, german speakers may find http://www.elektropolis.de/ very interesting: the webpage and story of the legendary and world's first synth-only music shop 'Synthesizerstudio Matten und Wiechers, Bonn'. Extremely amusing to read - as I'm used to (bought my first synth there loooon time ago - just like Schulze, Froese, Kraftwerk...) don't miss the great collection of their historic advertisements! armin From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 2:16 pm Subject: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Hi Gang, during the last few days I was toying with the idea to create a successor to the 'Digital tape tree' CDR series which (as far as I know) stopped at Disc no. 25. About four years ago I started collecting & upgrading my collection of live recordings by exchanging tapes & cdr's with many other TD collectors around the world (many of them are on the mailing list). I know that I have a considerable number of recordings which were not easy to obtain (master tapes or 2nd & 3rd generation copies...Al, where are you?! ;-), and I would like to share my best sounding recordings with those who are interested in hearing them. And maybe other 'die-hard' collectors also want to make their contribution. Regarding live concert recordings I have the following concerts in mind: -Sheffield 29.10.74 1st gen., Nottingham 8.11.76 1st gen., London 2.4.75 BBC master tape, Paris 16.08.75 4th gen., London Olympia 22.10.75 2nd gen., Croydon 23.10.75 1st gen., London 7.6.76 1st gen., Berlin 27.6.76 FM, Düsseldorf 21.10.76 2nd gen., Brussels 16.11.76 3rd gen., excerpts from Paris 22.11.76 3rd gen, excerpts of Seattle 21.4.77 3rd gen., Hamburg 24.2.78...and a lot more :-) But mostly the music will consist of concerts from the early 70's to 80's, and only from low & known generation copies. I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape tree', but what I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his ok, but only if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I also have to think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name) Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been officially released.) Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31113 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? atye@a... Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31138 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Deb H-J Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31139 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Ken Beal Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31115 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Antonio Nunes Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31116 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Synthhtnys@a... Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31120 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? zathrus13 Wed 1/9/2002 4 KB 31123 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Joe Shoults Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31129 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31131 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: atye@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 2:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Heiko, I think it would be a great idea. I am not sure how to help get it all started, but there has GOT to be an original name you could use. (tangerines....trees....there's a connection there somewhere...hmmmmmmm) Good luck, Alex (ATYE) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31138 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Deb H-J Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31139 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Ken Beal Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: 'Nigel Merrick' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 3:30 pm Subject: Reason and TD Hi All Was wondering if anyone on the list is using Propellerhead's Reason software to write TD-sounding music and would be willing to share Subtractor Synth/NN19 sampler patches. Cheers in advance, Nigel Merrick NP: Oasis Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31117 Re: Reason and TD Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/9/2002 4 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Heiko Heerssen wrote: > > I know that I have a considerable number of recordings which were not > easy to obtain (master tapes or 2nd & 3rd generation copies...Al, where > are you?! ;-), and I would like to share my best sounding recordings > with those who are interested in hearing them. > (...) > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all... Sure there will be big interest! I'd be very happy to participate as a branch of this tree. Antonio From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? In a message dated 1/9/2002 8:18:29 AM Central Standard Time, heiko.heerssen@h... writes: > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't > think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic > improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been > officially released.) > > Heiko > *I'd be interested... Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and TD I am toying with Reason right now. I have been able to get some sounds that work so far. I have only been toying with it for a month now so I am not the expert to ask but I am willing to share what I learn in return for the same. Let me know. So far all I have done is to use the existing demos, stretch them out, mod them, alter them. This program has a lot of features and mods you can do. You can keep it simple or go complex. I have also been able to link it up to my nano synths and korg ms2000. I have some other midi controls on the side that works well with it too. Like I said, I am just starting to toy with it. I think it has promise. Another item is I am just using the built in sound card on the test system to toy with it. I am not sure yet if I can get anymore out of it using a better card or a surround card yet. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Nigel Merrick' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 7:30 AM Subject: [tadream] Reason and TD > Hi All > > Was wondering if anyone on the list is using Propellerhead's Reason software > to write TD-sounding music and would be willing to share Subtractor > Synth/NN19 sampler patches. > > Cheers in advance, > > Nigel Merrick > > NP: Oasis > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord Reason is definitely cool, but if someone was interested in creating the modular sounds of classic TD for a very reasonable price I would HIGHLY suggest looking into the Clavia Nord Micro Modular (about $500 US) It works with a PC and has the most amazing emulation of a modular sound I've heard. Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31122 Re: Reason and Nord mengels@w... Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31210 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! goozergrafx Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31254 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! mengels@w... Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31127 Re: Reason and Nord Synthhtnys@a... Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31135 Re: Reason and Nord mengels@w... Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31137 Re: Reason and Nord Synthhtnys@a... Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Erik Sanborn Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) Hi Marion, My single LP of Atem on the Ohr label also says, 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Nowhere does it state what quad format the LP is encoded as so my guess is that the LP is simply stereo. Perhaps after the recording sessions the rear channels were folded back into the front channels for the stereo LP mix. This practice was not uncommon in the mid-1970's. Anyone else want to comment on this? Regards, Erik > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 18:47:31 -0000 > From: 'horrod6' >Subject: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... (was Quadrophonic) > >Jim, > >I dug out my 1976 Virgin copy (VD 2504) of this. There's nothing in the >sleeve notes, and the record labels say 'Stereo'. However, on the outside >back cover it does say 'Quadrophonische Produktion'. Having never owned a >quad system, I can't comment further. > >LnH > >Marion From: 'zathrus13' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:32 pm Subject: Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? > I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape tree', but what I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his ok, but only if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I also have to think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name). __________________________ Here's some 'tree' info, from 'The Plantation', a Flower Kings CDR trading group : 1. Planting a Tree .... First somebody decides they have a show or collection of tracks that they wish to share with the list. An announcement is then made that he/she would like to make this available to the list. The announcement will request certain information to be supplied in the responses, usually NAME, e-mail ADDRESS, COUNTRY, BURNER CAPABLE, HOW MANY LEAVES. A deadline will be set when no further signups will be accepted. (the tree has to be planted sometime :-) The responses to the announcement, if supplied correctly (this is important) will enable the tree planter to arrange the trunk, branches, and leaves in such a manner to minimise shipping distances, and therefore costs. Seed | |--Branch 1 | |-----Leaf 1.1 | |-----Leaf 1.2 | |-----Leaf 1.3 | |-----Leaf 1.4 | |--Branch 2 | |-----Leaf 2.1 | |-----Leaf 2.2 | |-----Leaf 2.3 | | etc etc Once the tree structure has been determined it is drawn up and presented to the list. This then enables leaves to contact branches and branches to contact trunk to arrange terms (B&P*, trade, etc.) and confirm delivery addresses. Soon after the tree structure is announced the seed will distribute copies to each branch. The branch will then copy and ship to each leaf on receipt of agreed terms. Everybody ends up happy ...... except those that missed the deadline. For them it is a case of waiting, checking the structure and arranging a private B&P, trade, etc. with somebody on the tree. Hope this helps. --- Jeff P.S. - I would be interested in participating. From: Erik Sanborn Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:34 pm Subject: Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track James, Unfortunately, I no longer have Tubular Bells on quad-8. (A sad story.) I wish I could hear it again. I only have a couple of quad-8's left. I have not played around with the various surround sound/home theater audio formats so I can't advise you as to what would be the best method of encoding 4 sound channels. Sorry. -Erik > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:06:10 -0600 > From: 'Owens, James' >Subject: Tubular Bells Quad-8track > >Erik, > >I'd like to hear the sound of this. Do you think it's possible to encode >the four channels into 4 channels of Dolby Surround (leave out the center >channel and playback in 'Phantom' mode)? Another possibility would be the >soundblaster Live soundcard, which has a four-speaker mode. I'm sure >there's a way to record in on four channels so you can output in four >channel mode. > >James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:10 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] Re: Quadrophonic > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:05:32 -0800 > > > From: 'Admin' > > > > (snip) > > > > >You are also pretty well on with your thoughts on quad. I > > remember reading > > >the same materal a while back I do own a quad 8 track player > > that I keep in > > >my eye sight from that error. (yea I am dating myself a bit). > > > > > >Dale > > > > (delurking for a moment...) > > > > I own a receiver that has an SQ matrix decoder and integrated > > quad 8-track > > player. I still play the few quad 8-tracks that I have. > > > > The CD-4, SQ and QS quad formats all suffered from, among > > other things, > > poor channel separation. Not so with quad 8-tracks. Each of the four > > channels was recorded discretely. This made a world of > > difference in the > > 'quad' effect of the sound. I could play an SQ-encoded LP and > > get slightly > > better sound than the equivalent stereo LP, or I could play > > the same album > > on quad-8 and get fantastic results. I still recall being > > blown away by > > Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells in quad-8. The depth of the > > sound image was > > sensational. By comparison, the LP or even CD seem flat to > > me. An added > > bonus about the quad-8 format was that there were only two > > programs instead > > of the usual four, which meant that songs tended not to be > > faded out and > > back in across program boundaries. Unfortunately, quad-8 > > suffered from all > > the other drawbacks of 8-tracks so it's not surprising that > > they went the > > way of the dodo. > > > > Regards, > > > > Erik From: mengels@w... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 5:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord >Reason is definitely cool, but if someone was interested in creating the >modular sounds of classic TD for a very reasonable price I would HIGHLY >suggest looking into >the Clavia Nord Micro Modular (about $500 US) It works with a PC and has the >most amazing emulation of a modular sound I've heard. Or you could buy a real new modular. :-) Quite some around and if you want 'that' sound then there's plenty of modulars around like the 'Arrick' synthesizers.com, MOTM, Doepfer etc. IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to 30 years ago, although most of the techno-kids probably think it's expensive because they use cracked versions of 303/moog emulations etc. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... Arrick-owner... ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31210 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! goozergrafx Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31254 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! mengels@w... Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:25 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] ... > I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape > tree', but what > I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked > Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his > ok, but only > if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a > 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I > also have to > think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the > 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name) > > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't > think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic > improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been > officially released.) > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31129 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB 31131 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Michael Fox Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:12 pm Subject: RE: CD 22 isn't 'Virtually Fields' from the CD22 the name of a Jerome TD webpage that has never been developed--i.e. something like 'jvfields' as I recall. --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31126 Re: CD 22 koulos Wed 1/9/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Trying to get a grip on the old bull huh? At least before it is out of the gate. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: 'koulos' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: CD 22 actually virtually fields is the name of the track [no 20 in disc] and it cames from the album dream mixes I the web page thing doesn't reminds me of something but i am surrely not the person to anwser since i am not a TD diehard as many others on this list [but i am learning little bit;s every time i read the postings on this list] kostas ps interested to be a leaf too in this **tree** thing > isn't 'Virtually Fields' from the CD22 the name of a Jerome TD webpage > that has never been developed--i.e. something like 'jvfields' as I recall. > > --T > > From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord In a message dated 1/9/2002 11:56:40 AM Central Standard Time, mengels@w... writes: > IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to > 30 years ago, *Maybe, but not $500 US cheap... more like $3000 US. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:16 pm Subject: FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? somehow my message got cut off. Here is the full message: -----Original Message----- OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] ... > I don't have much experience about how to set up a 'tape > tree', but what > I know is that it has to entirely done on a non-profit basis. I asked > Martin Kay for his allowance to do this and he gave me his > ok, but only > if there's no profit involved. Any information about how to launch a > 'tape tree' distribution list is greatly appreciated, and I > also have to > think about a new title (I wasn't involved in the production of the > 'digital tape tree' and don't think it's nice to use the same name) > > Any feedback on this matter is appreciated (because maybe there isn't > any big interest at all...but I think it makes sense because I can't > think of any other band in the world that played such fantastic > improvised live music, and since today only very little of it has been > officially released.) > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31130 FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Joe Shoults Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB 31132 FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? bigstupidgeek Wed 1/9/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I am on another list that is set up for the sole purpose of trading and treeing music. As it seems some are new to this, or have questions, you might want to take a look at the home page for this group to learn more. There is a page link to a section all about trees. You will also note that this group does not take lightly profiting from said music and they _will_ go after people who do. On every cd cover from this group it clearly states that the music is to be traded only and is not for sale. Hope this helps some with this. Mike From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:32 pm Subject: FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? this is weird. it got cut off again, so I'm trying again (&*%#&@!) -----Original Message----- OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] ... > I don't have much experience about how [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Michael Fox Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Including the link would probably help sorry http://www.archivalgroup.f2s.com/ From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 7:36 pm Subject: FW: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? somehow my message got cut off. Here is the full message: -----Original Message----- OK. The normal, standing policy is to not trade on-list. But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather _tolerated_ by TDI.. With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit liberally; to quote Martin, 'live taping is a no-no but we tolerate profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. Fair enough? This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK on-list. BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like [tree] or something. Thanks! Joe From: 'Owens, James' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 6:54 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track I understand. My dad lost around 30 8-tracks during a heat wave back in 1980. Our Air Conditioner went out and the house got so hot that the rubber wheels inside the cartridge melted all over the tape reel. > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Sanborn [mailto:esanborn@n...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:34 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: Tubular Bells Quad-8track > > > James, > > Unfortunately, I no longer have Tubular Bells on quad-8. (A > sad story.) I > wish I could hear it again. I only have a couple of quad-8's left. From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 8:23 pm Subject: 3rd time's a charm, and listen to Paul sorry about the multiple posts to get my tree message through. ============================================================== So I was updating some of the links on my Audio Files page at http://www.tadream.net, and I ran across a stream of Paul's music. I've added it to the page under 'Other', and here is the URL: http://musicsojourn.com/Playlists/Echoes/v127-152/v145/Echoes_features145.ht m hi-fi version: http://musicsojourn.com/rampw/sub/eo/real/ram/v127-152/v145/eo-145-1-si.ram lo-fi version: http://musicsojourn.com/rampw/free/eo/real/ram/v127-152/v145/eo-145-1.ram For those of you who don't know about John Diliberto, Echoes or the musicsojourn site, you will be thrilled with what is there and find tons of great stuff to listen to. Most of it is RealAudio format. http://musicsojourn.com/index.html Joe > -----Original Message----- > somehow my message got cut off. Here is the full message: ... > This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should > be handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then > it is OK on-list. From: mengels@w... Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 9:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord >> IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to >> 30 years ago, > >*Maybe, but not $500 US cheap... more like $3000 US. >Poly Thats true, but I don't think such a machine can be build for $500. Even Ruud, my other band member, is buying one! He has got the Nord Modular and he heard one second of the Arrick and said that he can't get those sounds from the Nord Modular. And I consider him a better soundmaker then me. But it's not the tools that make the music, it's the man behind it of course. I was blown away by it's sound. And having total freedom and control when playing live was all I wanted. Little TD content...what are the odds of TD using these things again? Marcel ----------------------------------------- Info --------- Registrieren Sie Ihren eigenen Namen im Internet bevor es jemand anderer tut: .at, .de, .cc, .tv, > und neue Domain Endungen: .info, .biz, .co.uk, Domain-Anmeldung: http://www.domainsave.at --------------------------------------------------------- *** sent through http://www.everymail.net FREE e-mail From: 'Steve' Date: Wed Jan 9, 2002 4:42 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? > during the last few days I was toying with the idea to create a > successor to the 'Digital tape tree' CDR series which (as far as I know) > stopped at Disc no. 25. Another interested one here! Steve www.craftman.co.uk www.rotties-r-us.co.uk From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:29 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Reason and Nord In a message dated 1/9/02 1:56:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, mengels@w... writes: << >*Maybe, but not $500 US cheap... more like $3000 US. >Poly Thats true, but I don't think such a machine can be build for $500. >> *This is true, but my original point of bringing it up on this list was for people who wanted to explore TD modular sounds on the cheap. ala Nord and Reason. Poly From: Deb H-J Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:29 am Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I would also like to participate in a Digital Tape Tree. I've never done one before, but I have a great machine and think its a fine idea. So chalk me up as another one! Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31139 Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Ken Beal Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Ken Beal Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 12:47 am Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Count me as one who would participate.. Ken > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 2:13 am Subject: Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I would like to participate: Steve Whiteley I can be a branch for up to 3 leaves. Los Angeles, CA It may be that pooling our concert tapes/CDRs can help us have a more complete better sounding representation of Tangerine Dreams concerts. We may want to break up the tree/work into more manageable pieces. How many concerts are there? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 2:18 am Subject: Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? Maybe the Froese's have a concert they would like to seed the tree with. ... It never hurts to ask, we are all dreamers here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:31 am Subject: [Tree] Tape tree > But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - > this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by TDI. > With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit > liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate > profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' Hello Joe (& others), I haven't interpreted Martin's info liberally, in fact what you wrote is almost identical to what *I* said to Martin yesterday when I told him about my idea the first time. I told him that this will be an entirely non-profit thing, and that I know that the 'TD staff' will not support the trading of bootlegs, and he fully agreed to what I said. He also told me that as long as there is no profit involved they will tolerate the new 'tree'. A while ago someone on this list said that these kind of activites are like a 'legal minefield', and I am aware of the consequences and can only appeal to future 'tree members' that they follow the 'rules' and don't sell their copies to other people to make some money (the rear cover artwork will include a statement like 'Produced by fans for fans - do not sell or buy, trade freely') Thanks to all those list members who already showed their interesting in participating, and to those who gave some information about how to set up a tape tree. I will keep your names & email addresses, but really it's WAY TOO EARLY to start now because: a) I haven't recorded a single CDR yet (and I want the music to sound as good as possible), as soon as I have a couple of concerts ready (maybe 7-10 cdr's, each will run up to 73 minutes) I will let you know so that we can start to think about the subscription deadline for those who are interested, etc etc. I haven't set myself a limit about how many Volumes there will be, guess I just wait and see what happens. b) I only have a PC here in my office, so please bear with me in case it takes a bit longer for me to respond to questions/suggestions. > So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how > it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal > trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. > Fair enough? yup. > This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be > handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK > on-list. yup yup :-) In case you have questions please contact me off-list at 'heiko.heerssen@h...' And my apologies to those people who are not interested in the 'tree'...just push the 'delete' button ;-) > BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like > [tree] or something. that's a good idea. Regards Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31152 Re: [Tree] Tape tree PENFOLD Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:35 am Subject: Seeding the tree > Maybe the Froese's have a concert they would like to seed the tree with. > ... > It never hurts to ask, we are all dreamers here. I'm afraid it will hurt if I'd ask them!! ;-) From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 11:25 am Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True Heiko Heerssen wrote: > > Hi Gang, > > during the last few days I was toying with the idea to create a > successor to the 'Digital tape tree' CDR series which (as far as I know) > stopped at Disc no. 25. I would like to participate. This is exactly what I have always dreamed of, so I propose that the project be named 'A Dream Come True'. (bring on the) Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31161 [tree] A Dream Come True Mark Filipak Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31162 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31177 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Heiko Heerssen Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31204 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31231 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB 31335 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31292 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31297 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Matthew Sawyer Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31313 [tree] A Dream Come True Morgan Feldon Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 1:55 pm Subject: [tree] Re: a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I'm also very much interested in this tree. I can act as a branch or a leaf. regards, timo timo.astala@n... From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 3:33 pm Subject: FW: TD related items for sale and trade I've been asked by aslanfan1@a... to notify you of the following available used CDs for sale: Paul Haslinger - Score (autographed) Paul Haslinger - World Without Rules (autographed) Paul Haslinger - Planetary Traveler (2CD) Mark Shreeve - Crash Head (import) Mark Shreeve - Legion (import) Mark Shreeve - Nocturne Lightwave - Mundus Subteraneous Lightwave - Tycho Brahe Tangerine Dream - Luminous Visions (CD and VHS Video) Also, contact him offlist to discuss a *non-monetary* trade for: Tangerine Dream - Elec. Orgy (4 CD) Please contact aslanfan1@a... off-list for info. (not me) From: veine@v... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 4:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree Count me in on this one! Regards ~Veine -- Get your firstname@l... email at http://Nameplanet.com/?su Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31148 Re: [Tree] Tape tree mikael.jussila@p... Thu 1/10/2002 1 KB 31178 Re: Tape tree TheInfection Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31154 Re: [Tree] Tape tree Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31171 Re: [Tree] Tape tree Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31174 Re: [Tree] Tape tree Mark Filipak Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: mikael.jussila@p... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree I'm with you too! *Fornit Some Fornus* MJUSSILA Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31178 Re: Tape tree TheInfection Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:35 pm Subject: [tree] ??? was birmingham '75 ever tree'd? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:51 pm Subject: addendum to aslanfan's TD-related available CDs Aslanfan has asked me to add these items to his available list: Christopher Franke-(Rare) Tenchi the Move Original Soundtrack CD Christopher Franke-Perry Rhodon • Pax Terra CD Christopher Franke-The Celestine Prophecy A Musical Voyage CD Mike Oldfield-Earth Moving Mike Oldfied-Islands Voices in the Dunes, First Edition, copyright 1990 in good condition (cover in completely intact but with fold crease in it) contact him off-list at AslanFan1@a... From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:20 pm Subject: 5 year yahoogroups anniversary looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on this list was 1/9/97 _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31153 Re: 5 year yahoogroups anniversary Synthhtnys@a... Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31156 Re: 5 year yahoogroups anniversary Antonio Nunes Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: PENFOLD Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 5:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree Count me in on this tree Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 5 year yahoogroups anniversary In a message dated 1/10/2002 12:21:56 PM Central Standard Time, teiwazbarana@h... writes: > looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on this list was > 1/9/97 > > *Long live Tadream! ;-) Poly Paul Ellis Binary recordings at - www.hypnos.com 'Into the Liquid unknown' out now. ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ 'A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating. That's how music should be.' Brian Eno ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ ^~~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:10 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree http://www.tadream.net/tree Well, folks, some of you probably can't believe it, but here we go with a list-facilitated tree effort! Click the link above for all current info. Let me know if there is anything to add. Please read and adhere to the rules! If you send notification of your participation, please indicate your location, whether you will be a branch or leaf, and if a branch, how many leaves you will support. Thanks, Joe From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:34 pm Subject: RE: I_wanna_be_a_tadream_tree_branch hmm.. well, OK. no problem. if anyone else doesn't want their e-mail address displayed, let me know, but it's not like this is a public page or anything. I don't have any links to it off the extant pages. > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:ajogon@n...] > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:13 PM > To: tadream-owner@yahoogroups.com > Subject: I_wanna_be_a_tadream_tree_branch > > > Location: Portugal > # of leaves I can support: 3 > > P.S. Please see if there's a way of hiding our e-mail > addresses from the > page http://www.tadream.net/tree/ before the spammers find them. > > Antonio > > From: 'Antonio Nunes' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 7:52 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] 5 year yahoogroups anniversary tei waz wrote: > > looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on this list was > 1/9/97 The poster of that message must have set a wrong date on his PC (Y2K bug?), because in 1997 the list was still on the cs.uwp.edu server. IIRC the list moved to the onelist server in 1999. Antonio From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:23 pm Subject: 5th year anniv. >The poster of that message must have set a wrong date on his PC (Y2K bug?), because in 1997 the list was still on the cs.uwp.edu server. IIRC the list moved to the onelist server in 1999. Mebbe, but Message one (a re:) says 1/9/1997 and there are plenty of 1997 messages after that.... _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:39 pm Subject: NEW OLD ARCHIVES! (was RE: [tadream] 5 year yahoogroups annivers ary) that's right. I set up this list on March 15, 1999. the archives are incomplete on yahoogroups, but good news: inspired by Morgan to find the old Tape Tree rules from the uwp list, I posted a new archive of the old messages from there. These are as complete as I can currently provide; if you have any to add, please send them to me and I'll put them up with the rest: http://www.tadream.net/archives They are quite fun to go back and read! This is a request: If anyone finds the Tape Tree Rules, could you please post the URL to the list? Thanks, Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:ajogon@n...] > tei waz wrote: > > looks like we missed this by a day but the first message on > this list was > > 1/9/97 > The poster of that message must have set a wrong date on his PC (Y2K > bug?), because in 1997 the list was still on the cs.uwp.edu > server. IIRC > the list moved to the onelist server in 1999. > From: Morgan Feldon Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 8:43 pm Subject: New Digital Tape Tree? >Hieko Heersen said: > >Joe Shoults said: > > But to be perfectly clear - and to clarify Martin and the TDI position - > > this is not an activity that is *sanctioned*, but rather *tolerated* by > TDI. > > With all due respect, Heiko may have interpreted Martin's info a bit > > liberally; to quote Martin, ''live taping is a no-no' but we tolerate > > profit-free trading (which, as Klaus pointed out, doesn´t make it legal)' > >Hello Joe (& others), >I haven't interpreted Martin's info liberally, in fact what you wrote is >almost >identical to what *I* said to Martin yesterday >when I told him about my idea the first time. I told him that this will be an >entirely non-profit thing, and that I know that >the 'TD staff' will not support the trading of bootlegs, and he fully >agreed to >what I said. He also told me that as long as >there is no profit involved they will tolerate the new 'tree'. A while ago >someone on this list said that these kind of >activites are like a 'legal minefield', and I am aware of the consequences and >can only appeal to future 'tree members' that >they follow the 'rules' and don't sell their copies to other people to make >some money (the rear cover artwork will include a >statement like 'Produced by fans for fans - do not sell or buy, trade freely') >Thanks to all those list members who already showed their interesting in >participating, and to those who gave some information >about how to set up a tape tree. I will keep your names & email addresses, but >really it's WAY TOO EARLY to start now because: Let's look at how other tape and CDR trees have been done on the Tangerine Dream mailing list. On Dave Datta's UWP list, we saw Real Dream Encores, Sea of Dreams, and the other 25 discs of the Digital Tape Tree, among other things. I wish I had access to the archives, I'd dig up the posts from back then about trees. A 'window' date is chosen, beyond which point no more leaves or branches would be accepted. Before the tree begins, a diagram of the entire tree with names, e-mail addresses, and locations is posted to the list so there can be no confusion about whose responsibility each branch is. >a) I haven't recorded a single CDR yet (and I want the music to sound as good >as possible), as soon as I have a couple of >concerts ready (maybe 7-10 cdr's, each will run up to 73 minutes) My 2 lira... Generally, I believe in having a disc contain only the pieces of that concert. I understand that often, there will be two 40 minute sets and then an encore. This does not fit well on either one or two CDRs. Of course once leaves receive the CDRs, they may do whatever they want and repackage them for their own listening as one-concert-only CDRs. >I will let >you know so that we can start to think about the >subscription deadline for those who are interested, etc etc. I haven't set >myself a limit about how many Volumes there will be, >guess I just wait and see what happens. The evaluation of what was on the first 25 Digital Tape Tree discs and comparison between those and the quality of what you have will be a nightmare I'm sure. First you have to see if what you have is more complete that what was previously available. Then you have to decide if what you have is significantly higher quality than what came out on the other DTTs. > > So we will allow on-list discussions for the TREE ONLY, this tme to see how > > it goes. BUT we will still restrict individuals conducting their personal > > trades on-list - which should always be off-list no matter what, anyway. > > Fair enough? I say use how it went on Dave Datta's list as a blueprint. The actual trades were handled off-list, but we did see diagrams on the list of available branches and then a final workup of all the branches and leaves before the whole thing got started. Then there were status reports. > > This means that individual conversations about trade logistics should be > > handled off-list, but if a post applies to the entire tree, then it is OK > > on-list. > >yup yup :-) In case you have questions please contact me off-list at >'heiko.heerssen@h...' >And my apologies to those people who are not interested in the 'tree'...just >push the 'delete' button ;-) > > > BTW: For Tree discussions, please use an appropriate subject header, like > > [tree] or something. > >that's a good idea. Definately. -Morgan P.S. I am working on a new website, which will use Paul Fellows' Known Concerts and Recordings website and Duncan's Tour Tracklist website as as my bibles. The website will be a comprehensive database of every concert date, whether a concert tape exists, and a list (and ranking) of every major 'named' recording of this show. The best possible recording will be boldfaced and track times included for identification. I've been told this is a monumental task, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm considering building it as a database instead of static web pages to aid editing and updating by non-HTML experts (not that I am an expert, but I'd rather use someone's talents on handling information than expect them to deal with mind-numbing HTML codes just to add a few lines). The reason for this website? Almost every major named bootleg out there is currently obsolete, and it's like a minefield trying to get your mitts on what is the best recording of the concert. The easy answer is always get your CDRs from Hieko, Duncan, Klaus, or others and you'll have the best :). But I'd like to spell it out in a bit more detail than that. A short list of the bootlegs that are currently obsolete: Patrolling Space Borders, Staatgrenze West, Coefficient of Aural Expansion/Phaedream/Ruby in the Sky, Danger Live, Acoustic LSD, Fractal Realities, Ratikon, the earlier 1983 Warsaw bootleg, Danger Live, etc. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31163 Re: New Digital Tape Tree? Mark Filipak Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:12 pm Subject: Tape tree rules I don't have a copy of them, but I remember what the general practice was: branch makes copies for leaf, leaf trades copies of something of interest to branch in return. alternately: branch makes copies for leaf, leaf pays shipping and cost of blanks and any printing or photocopying of cover art. (double blanks used to be a good option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). James > -----Original Message----- > This is a request: If anyone finds the Tape Tree Rules, could > you please > post the URL to the list? > > Thanks, > Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31164 Re: Tape tree rules Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 4 KB 31168 Re: Tape tree rules Michael Fox Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31165 Re: Tape tree rules Michael Fox Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31167 Re: Tape tree rules Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB 31169 Re: Tape tree rules Joe Shoults Thu 1/10/2002 3 KB 31170 Re: Tape tree rules Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/10/2002 3 KB 31181 Re: Tape tree rules John McIntyre Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:30 pm Subject: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True Is anyone out there beginning to get EXCITED!! From: Morgan Feldon Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:34 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True >Mark Filipak said: >Is anyone out there beginning to get EXCITED!! Well, it just means that I get to save on post to Hieko. :) Hopefully in a few months, I'll be replacing some of my boots with even better recordings! -Morgan From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New Digital Tape Tree? Morgan Feldon wrote: > -snip- > > I'm considering building it as a database instead of static web pages Would you like this in Excel? I have a lot of this and can supply it in Excel or DBF. Let me know. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 each. The postage will cost more than the media. I would personally be more comfortable with NO money exchanged, even for the Kinkos color photocopies or prints that I make for my 5 leaves. I mean we're talking about a total maximum cost, with postage ($2 ea.), CDR blanks ($.25 ea) and color photocopies ($1 ea.), of no more than about $10-20. (I know these numbers are high, but I'm being liberal with the estimates for the sake of argument) I don't see how it would be too difficult to find 'something' that the leaf could send back that is worth that. Of course, ultimately it is up to the parties involved, but I think it would be much more in the proper spirit of things for the compensation to not be any cash at all, especially for anything over absolute costs. If your cash flow is so bad that you can't afford the $15 cost of being a branch, then maybe you should wait and save up for next time. JMHO. As a leaf, maybe you have a disk you can throw to your branch that they would like in trade, instead of B&P. Again, it is up to the parties involved. What I meant about finding the rules was if you found them in the archives I posted: http://www.tadream.net/archives > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:13 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: [tadream] Tape tree rules > > > I don't have a copy of them, but I remember what the general > practice was: > branch makes copies for leaf, leaf trades copies of something > of interest to > branch in return. > > alternately: > branch makes copies for leaf, leaf pays shipping and cost of > blanks and any > printing or photocopying of cover art. (double blanks used to > be a good > option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > This is a request: If anyone finds the Tape Tree Rules, could > > you please > > post the URL to the list? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31168 Re: Tape tree rules Michael Fox Thu 1/10/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape tree rules At 03:12 PM 01/10/2002 -0600, you wrote: >(double blanks used to be a good >option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). My feeling is 2 for 1 is not right. Art can be included, put up on a web site for download by all (preferred) or put on a separate disc included with the trade. We all have crummy generic discs we can use for art files. mike From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:43 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True - Interviews What about interview tapes? I'd like to have/listen to, and archive those. From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules the third disc for Dreamwatcher's Tales artwork worked out just fine last time. (Even better for those of you who were my leaves, who got the extra goodies I put on Disc 3 to fill it up.) For serious artwork, the files may be a little large for download for most people, but would be fine on CD. We will still post the artwork for download anyway, regardless if it is on a 3rd disc. That is, if there is any artwork. i really don't care too much about the artwork myself. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Fox [mailto:mfox@i...] > > At 03:12 PM 01/10/2002 -0600, you wrote: > >(double blanks used to be a good > >option as well, but CDR media is WAY too cheap for that). > > My feeling is 2 for 1 is not right. Art can be included, put > up on a web > site for download by all (preferred) or put on a separate > disc included > with the trade. We all have crummy generic discs we can use > for art files. > > mike From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 >each. The postage will cost more than the media. This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, couldn't all the art be put up there for each person to download? This is how we do it on other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually have a 'one click' access to all the art. :-) Mike From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules depends on how large the files are. I don't have unlimited space, but I'll bet we could find volunteers for more space, even if the files resided on different servers, they could be DLed from the central page. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Fox [mailto:mfox@i...] > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:48 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules > > > At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale > for $.10 to $.15 > >each. The postage will cost more than the media. > > This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, > couldn't all the > art be put up there for each person to download? This is how > we do it on > other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually > have a 'one > click' access to all the art. :-) > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape tree rules If he doesn't have the space, I can offer some. Being in the business of hosting sites and all, I have access to a few servers. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Michael Fox' To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:47 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] Tape tree rules > At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 > >each. The postage will cost more than the media. > > This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, couldn't all the > art be put up there for each person to download? This is how we do it on > other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually have a 'one > click' access to all the art. :-) > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree I'm off for today; see the tree page for current participants (so far). Please reply to me with your location, branch/leaf, # data if you haven't already. Thanks, Joe From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:00 pm Subject: sheet music on web site on http://www.tadream.net/ what is up with the sheet music? pdf ? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31176 Re: sheet music on web site Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31182 Re: sheet music on web site Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:08 pm Subject: [tree] Digital Tree i let heiko know, but will post here as well... i'm in for a branch at five leaves... j i like graphical possibilites of: Tangerine Dream Digital Tree TDDT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 10:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Tape tree I'm already in as a branch. Put me down for 5 leaves. I suspect we will have many branches and few leaves, except maybe outside of the US/EU... like maybe Gustavo in Brazil. -- Mark Joe Shoults wrote: > > I'm off for today; see the tree page for current participants (so far). > Please reply to me with your location, branch/leaf, # data if you haven't > already. > > Thanks, > Joe > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Morgan Feldon Date: Thu Jan 10, 2002 11:15 pm Subject: >Joe Shoults said: > >the third disc for Dreamwatcher's Tales artwork worked out just fine last >time. (Even better for those of you who were my leaves, who got the extra >goodies I put on Disc 3 to fill it up.) > >For serious artwork, the files may be a little large for download for most >people, but would be fine on CD. We will still post the artwork for >download anyway, regardless if it is on a 3rd disc. That is, if there is >any artwork. i really don't care too much about the artwork myself. A CD of the artwork is nice, but a high-quality 240dpi cover can be compressed down in Photoshop to a 230-300kb JPEG. This is perfectly suitable for putting on a website and e-mail attachments, and looks wonderful when printed on any type of paper especially photo stock. -Morgan From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:04 am Subject: RE: [tadream] sheet music on web site holy cow I didn't realize there were so many dead links on this site. I think I may have replaced it with an older version or something. I have backups, so I'll check there. But you're right - I remember having the sheet music in there somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: Administrator for kay-net.com To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Sent: 1/10/02 5:00 PM Subject: [tadream] sheet music on web site on http://www.tadream.net/ what is up with the sheet music? pdf ? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True > Hopefully in a few months, I'll be replacing some of my boots with even > better recordings! Hi Gang, thanks very much for your encouraging emails! I already finished compiling the first 2 cdr's but what I know is that it has to be done very careful, I want to make them as 'perfect' as possible, especially when it comes to remaster them. This means that it will take at least 1 month before I start sending out the first couple of cdr's, and I also have the difficult task to convince one or two people (of course I will never ever mention their names) to give me their allowance to use their recordings which are without a doubt second to none. But I already can come up with a nice surprise, a 1st generation recording of the 'Me-rad' show (minus the encore) I know this is a show which is a favourite of many Tadreamers, and when you compare the 1st gen. to 'Me-rad' I can honestly say that this bootleg cd doesn't come close. Again, my regards to all those people who showed interest in the new 'tree' and to Joe for his enthusiasm :-) P.S.: shall I use 74 minute or 80 minute CDRs? (please reply off-list if possible ;-) From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:11 am Subject: Re: Tape tree Count me in!!! Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:04 pm Subject: [tree] Hello everyone, At first I didn't want to participate, since I've got quite a good amount of TD concerts and almost never listen to them (so much to listen to, so little time), but since the collection is going to be selected from good quality sources, I'm in! I could act as a branch, but I'm afraid I can only make one copy of the collection; maybe even 2, if it's not a very big collection of CDRs. It seems it's going to be around 10 CDRs, or more? I would prefer sending to anywhere in North/Central/South America, but if necessary I can send to anywhere. I'm willing to create some covers too. I make some covers for myself sometimes, such as that cover for the 'A collection of TD tracks' compilation I created some months ago for newbies. I also create the covers of my own music CDs, and each cover I create is better than the last one. Actually, I *want* to contribute with at least one cover... About the CD format, I prefer working with 80-minute CDs. I only use brands such as TDK, Kodak, Mitsui, Samsung. I always buy Kodak if possible. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31186 Re: [tree] Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31188 Re: [tree] Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31216 [tree] CDs Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31194 Re: [tree] Antonio Nunes Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31195 Re: [tree] Synthhtnys@a... Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31196 Re: [tree] Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31198 [tree] Dmitriy V N Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31419 [tree] Morgan Feldon Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31420 [tree] Morgan Feldon Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:24 pm Subject: [Tree] Provisional concert list I made up a list of concerts which I hope can be the first ones to get included in the new CDR tree series. I decided to use 80 minute CDRs so that we can have as much music as possible on one disc, this will also reduce the number of CDR's and shipping costs :-) Most of the concerts will get remastered, so most likely it will take 6 weeks until we can start trading (a rough estimate...) -Sheffield City Hall 29 Oct 1974 (1st gen.) -London Royal Albert Hall digital copy of BBC master tape (1st gen.) -Croydon Fairfield Hall 23 Oct 1975 (1st gen.) -Berlin Philarmonie 27 June 1976 (FM broadcast, best sounding version i've ever heard) -Newcastle City Hall 25 Oct 1981 (1st gen., used as source for the 'Spaces & spheres' boot lp) -Nottingham Albert Hall 08 Nov 1976 (1st gen.) -Brussels L'Ancienne Belgique 16 Nov 1976 (3rd gen.) -Orange Festival 16 Aug 1975 (4th gen.) -London Royal Albert Hall 07 June 1976 (1st gen.) -Duesseldorf Philipshalle 21 Oct 1976 (2nd gen.) -Hamburg Audimax 24 Feb 1978 (low gen.) -Frankfurt Alte Oper 'Fassbinder Memorial concert' 11 June 1983 (low gen.) -Berlin ICC 26 Jan 1981 (low gen.) -London Dominion Theatre 06 Nov 1982 (2nd gen.) -Mannheim Mozartsaal 31 Oct 1976 (1st gen.) -Bristol Colston Hall 06 Nov 1990 (1st gen.) -Amsterdam Melkweg Max 20 April 1997 (1st gen.) & maybe complete shows (but more likely only excerpts) of: -Osaka Festival Hall 28 June 1983 (3rd gen.) -Seattle Paramount theater 21 April 1977 (3rd gen.) -Paris Palais du Sport 22 Nov 1976 (3rd gen.) Heiko From: John McIntyre Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 1:30 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape tree rules Michael Fox wrote: > At 04:56 PM 01/10/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >yeah, I was thinking of that, too. I can get CDRs on sale for $.10 to $.15 > >each. The postage will cost more than the media. > > This is really for Joe, but if tadream.net has the space, couldn't all the > art be put up there for each person to download? This is how we do it on > other lists I'm on, and it works great. Plus, you eventually have a 'one > click' access to all the art. :-) Being sans burner, downloading doesn't do me much good. Those of us without burners will continue to rely on the kindness of strangers who do have burners. Trees are still needed. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 4:35 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] sheet music on web site yea a lot of dead links everywhere but I did not want to mention any of them as I knew you was working on it. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:04 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] sheet music on web site > holy cow I didn't realize there were so many dead links on this site. I > think I may have replaced it with an older version or something. I have > backups, so I'll check there. But you're right - I remember having the > sheet music in there somewhere. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Administrator for kay-net.com > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Sent: 1/10/02 5:00 PM > Subject: [tadream] sheet music on web site > > on http://www.tadream.net/ what is up with the sheet music? pdf ? > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:07 pm Subject: [Tree] Wanted: a name Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: -(The) Tangerine Tree -Marmalade skies -A dream come true any other ideas? :-) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31184 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Owens, James Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31185 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31187 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31190 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Heiko Heerssen Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31193 Re: [Tree] Wanted: a name Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31209 [Tree] Wanted: a name Whiteley, Steve Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31364 Re: Name of the tree TheInfection Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31214 [tree] name and artwork Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 4 KB 31219 Re: [tree] name and artwork Steve Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:10 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I suggested 'Marmalade Skies' So I'll defend it here: It's from the same line of the Beatles' song 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' that (supposedly) gave birth to the name Tangerine Dream. The exact phrase is: 'Picture yourself in a boat on a river With Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies' Since this is a Tangerine tree, I though Marmalade Skies would be appropriate, since it has all sorts of significance... James > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:07 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the > office in > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > -Marmalade skies > -A dream come true > > any other ideas? :-) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I will go along with this... Being a Beetle fan and all as well. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Owens, James' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > I suggested 'Marmalade Skies' > So I'll defend it here: > It's from the same line of the Beatles' song 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds' > that (supposedly) gave birth to the name Tangerine Dream. The exact phrase > is: > > 'Picture yourself in a boat on a river > With Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies' > > Since this is a Tangerine tree, I though Marmalade Skies would be > appropriate, since it has all sorts of significance... > > James > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:07 AM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > > > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the > > office in > > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > > -Marmalade skies > > -A dream come true > > > > any other ideas? :-) > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:46 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. Where I have had problems is in the use of the CDRs that has a shiny surface, and is not the kind that is 'sandwiched' in the middle of the plastic. I put a sticky-note on one of these CDRs one time, just to label it temporarily, and when I pulled the stickynote off, it removed the silver stuff with it. But if you are picky about media, once you get the CDR you can transfer it onto your own media, plus you can specify those criteria with your branchline. I use Nero to burn, and I never get coasters, never have problems. > -----Original Message----- > About the CD format, I prefer working with 80-minute CDs. I > only use brands > such as TDK, Kodak, Mitsui, Samsung. I always buy Kodak if possible. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31188 Re: [tree] Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31216 [tree] CDs Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:49 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name A Dream Come True sums up a lot of people's feelings, I think, but I kinda like Marmalade Skies. > -----Original Message----- > From: Heiko Heerssen [mailto:heiko.heerssen@h...] > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:07 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the > office in > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > -Marmalade skies > -A dream come true > > any other ideas? :-) > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:39 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] I saw the note about 80 min discs and just wanted to add something to that. They are fine and actually that's all I use anymore, but try not to fill the entire disc. When you get up to 79 minutes or so, some burners will have trouble reading those last minutes (they read from the inside out) and this can cause faulty copies to be circulated. Just FYI. Mike From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:44 pm Subject: [tree] 80 min vs. 74 My HP8100i will only write a little over 78 minutes to an 80 minute disc. I don't think you gain enough with the extra 4 minutes per disc to make it worth the extra problems. I say stay below 74 minutes, so that there are fewer problems. James > -----Original Message----- > I saw the note about 80 min discs and just wanted to add > something to that. > They are fine and actually that's all I use anymore, but try > not to fill > the entire disc. When you get up to 79 minutes or so, some > burners will > have trouble reading those last minutes (they read from the > inside out) and > this can cause faulty copies to be circulated. Just FYI. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31191 Re: [tree] 80 min vs. 74 Synthhtnys@a... Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > I will go along with this... Being a Beetle fan and all as well. are you a beetle fan or a Beatles fan? ;-)) From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] 80 min vs. 74 In a message dated 1/11/2002 11:48:47 AM Central Standard Time, james.owens@m... writes: > . I say stay below 74 minutes, so that there are fewer > problems. > > James > *I agree that 74 is a safer choice. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:29 pm Subject: indicate location & status http://www.tadream.net/tree many of you have responded to be in the tree, but not indicated your location or your leaf/branch(#) status. Please contact me offlist and I'll update your info on the page. Thnaks, Joe P.S. good idea to stop short at 74 min on 80 min CDR. np: Ozric Tentacles - Become the Other Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31203 Re: indicate location & status Michael W Daniels Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name both Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Heiko Heerssen' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name > > > > I will go along with this... Being a Beetle fan and all as well. > > are you a beetle fan or a Beatles fan? ;-)) > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Antonio Nunes' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Joe Shoults wrote: > > As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between > the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and burned them as audio CDs. I had no problems burning them, and they played all right after the burning, BUT 10 months afterwards all of them started to play with more and more noise on my CD player, and 2 months later they were not even recognized as audio CDs on any player or CD-ROM drive! So my advice is, if you don't want a 'vanishing CDR' stay away from cheap brands! I use HP CDRs most of the time (same brand as the burner) and I had never a problem with them. Another advice: don't put labels on your CDRs. A few years later they will start to peel off and if this happens when you are playing the CDR, it might damage not only the CDR itself but also your CD player or CD-ROM drive. This almost happened to me, but fortunately I managed to stop the CD player in time, before I had a flying label inside it! Antonio From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] > Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. > A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and > burned them as audio CDs. I had no problems burning them, and they > played all right after the burning, BUT 10 months afterwards all of them > started to play with more and more noise on my CD player, > Another advice: don't put labels on your CDRs. A few years later they > will start to peel off and if this happens when you are playing the CDR, > Antonio *This is great advice from Antonio.... I would also advise not going with the ultra-cheapos... Besides folks even the more expensive CDR's only come to about $1 per..(US) and this is cheaper than cassette tape was years ago!!!! I'd say if we're going to do this let's do it right. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:19 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] to further the comments on cd-r's I stick to Maxell's (650/74) myself. I have used Memorex 700/80, TDK and Teac's. In that order of problems. Less being Memorex. I seldom if any have a problem with Maxell. Never put on them unless you have too. I prefer a sharpie to ID it. I have used label with the stomper. I notice after a while they tend to peel up a bit. A friend had a Epson set up to print direct on a CD. That worked well, slow but it made it look more pro. For this mission I am pretty much going to use 74 minute Maxell's. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Antonio Nunes' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] > > > Joe Shoults wrote: > > > > As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between > > the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. > > Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. > A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and > burned them as audio CDs. I had no problems burning them, and they > played all right after the burning, BUT 10 months afterwards all of them > started to play with more and more noise on my CD player, and 2 months > later they were not even recognized as audio CDs on any player or CD-ROM > drive! So my advice is, if you don't want a 'vanishing CDR' stay away > from cheap brands! I use HP CDRs most of the time (same brand as the > burner) and I had never a problem with them. > > Another advice: don't put labels on your CDRs. A few years later they > will start to peel off and if this happens when you are playing the CDR, > it might damage not only the CDR itself but also your CD player or > CD-ROM drive. This almost happened to me, but fortunately I managed to > stop the CD player in time, before I had a flying label inside it! > > Antonio > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'horrod6' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:31 pm Subject: Re: AlphaCent/Atem double LP... Mark, you asked for more info: Outside of the cover says 'VIRGIN VD 2504' on the spine, and 'VD 2504 STEREO' at top left on the back, under the old Virgin logo. At the foot of the back cover it says 'p1976 VIRGIN RECORDS LTD virgin records, vernon yard, portobello road, london w11' There's no numbering on the inside of the cover. Alpha Centauri is numbered VD 2504 and marked 'STEREO' and 'p1971 Virgin Records Ltd'. Atem is also numbered VD 2504 and marked 'STEREO' and 'p1972 Virgin Records Ltd' Cut on the vinyl itself are the following: AC side 1: 'VD 2504-A5' (print) and 'VD-2504-#.5' where # looks like a C that has been scribbled out (handwriting). AC side 2: 'VD 2504 B - 1U - 1 - # - 3' (print, except # which looks as if a print character has been crossed out by hand) Atem side 1: 'VD 2504-D4' (mirrored print) and 'VD-2504-# -E' (handwriting), here # looks like a B that has been scribbled out and replaced with a (printed?) D AC side 2: 'VD 2504 C - 6U - 1 - 1' (print) Hope this helps! My guess would be that they re-used a previous cover picture (the baby's face) and didn't remove the text, by some oversight. Without a quad player, however, I can't confirm whether the discs themselves are stereo or quad. LnH Marion [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Dmitriy V N Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:25 pm Subject: [tree] What exactly is a tape tree? Regards, Dmitriy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:39 pm Subject: princo >Antonio Nunes said: >Well, I had a very unpleasant experience with 'cheapo' CDRs. >A few years ago I bought a batch of 10 CDRs PRINCO silver/blue and >burned them as audio CDs. Princo is legendary for bad media. I've gotta concur with the media suggestions made and add a few: TDK, Verbatim Datalife Plus, Imation, Memorex silver-top (NOT GOLD!). As far as the name, I've gotta vote for 'A Dream Come True', since these recordings are going to be incredible quality. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31202 Tape Tree mengels@w... Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:46 pm Subject: What is a tape/CDR tree? >What exactly is a tape tree? > >Regards, >Dmitriy One person has recordings that other people want. Rather than sell the CD (which is a no-no for bootlegs), this person makes available these CDs to others. But instead of one person having the burden of having to burn 50 or 100 copies of each CDR and deal with the packing and shipping for all these people, instead, that person who is the source, organizes (or submits the CDRs to someone who will organize) a tape or CDR tree. On a tape/CDR tree, the source CDRs are copied about a dozen times. Each of these copies is given to a 'branch'. Then, individuals who want copies of the CDRs send 2-for-1 blank CDRs (or $2 per CDR) to the nearest branch and in exchange, get copies of the CDRs. So nobody has to copy more than about 50 CDRs themselves and a LOT of people get the material, all without making a discernable profit, and TD doesn't get too upset. The branches and trees are all decided upon before the whole thing starts, so that things don't get out of hand. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31201 Re: What is a tape/CDR tree? Kevin Robert Ball Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31212 Re: What is a tape/CDR tree? Totta Rydqvist Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB From: 'Kevin Robert Ball' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:52 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] What is a tape/CDR tree? Sounds perfect. Count me in as a branch. I'm in the UK - Bromley, Kent. Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] Sent: 11 January 2002 19:46 To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Subject: [tadream] What is a tape/CDR tree? >What exactly is a tape tree? > >Regards, >Dmitriy One person has recordings that other people want. Rather than sell the CD (which is a no-no for bootlegs), this person makes available these CDs to others. But instead of one person having the burden of having to burn 50 or 100 copies of each CDR and deal with the packing and shipping for all these people, instead, that person who is the source, organizes (or submits the CDRs to someone who will organize) a tape or CDR tree. On a tape/CDR tree, the source CDRs are copied about a dozen times. Each of these copies is given to a 'branch'. Then, individuals who want copies of the CDRs send 2-for-1 blank CDRs (or $2 per CDR) to the nearest branch and in exchange, get copies of the CDRs. So nobody has to copy more than about 50 CDRs themselves and a LOT of people get the material, all without making a discernable profit, and TD doesn't get too upset. The branches and trees are all decided upon before the whole thing starts, so that things don't get out of hand. -Morgan From: Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:49 pm Subject: Tape Tree > Quoten Morgan Feldon : > > As far as the name, I've gotta vote for 'A Dream Come True', since these > recordings are going to be incredible quality. I'm not following this discussion closely but is the material that is going to be 'tree-ed' going to be complete material? Or as Sea of Dreams (which is excellent) only parts of concerts? If it's going to be complete then I think I'm interested. I mostly use Sony, Imation or MMORE CDRs, never had any problems with them. So, are we writing 1x speed, 2x speed or more? Mind you, I've once written a master-CD of my own CD at 2x speed and the CD-factory didn't accept it! It had too many errors while you can't hear them. It got through with 1x speed (which is the only speed for a right/good red book audio). (no my CD burning is not faulty :-)) Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Michael W Daniels Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] indicate location & status At 01:29 PM 1/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >http://www.tadream.net/tree >many of you have responded to be in the tree, but not indicated your >location or your leaf/branch(#) status. Please contact me offlist and I'll >update your info on the page. Hi. You can add me as a branch(3); I'm in Columbus, Ohio. -- Michael W. Daniels | 'The thunder was ominous-sounding, much daniels@l... | like the sound of a thin sheet of metal Department of Linguistics | being shaken backstage during the storm 218 Oxley Hall | scene in a play.' From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:21 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True >Marcel Engels said: >I'm not following this discussion closely but is the >material that is going to be 'tree-ed' going to be >complete material? Or as Sea of Dreams (which is excellent) >only parts of concerts? >If it's going to be complete then I think I'm interested. Unlike Sea of Dreams and Parallel Dreams 1 and 2, this will be entire concerts. If necessary, you might see 3 concerts on two CDRs to maximize the space. >I mostly use Sony, Imation or MMORE CDRs, never had any >problems with them. I agree re: imation. >So, are we writing 1x speed, 2x speed or more? I burn everything at 12x, and there are 24x burners now. CD Recording technology has improved unbelieveably in the last 3 years. It used to be that a 4x burner wrote 4x discs, but they were temperamental. You had to burn at 1x or 2x to guarantee a good burn. Now, you can burn at any speed you like and actually burning at 1x or 2x is not advantageous because you get MORE errors writing so slow. Even the standalone CD copiers have hit 4x at the $250 price point. I use a 12x CD-Recorder in my computer which costs $99 today. It also has burn-proof, so if there is a bugger underrun, it can resume the recording with no perceptable gap. >Mind you, I've once written a master-CD of my own >CD at 2x speed and the CD-factory didn't accept it! >It had too many errors while you can't hear them. >It got through with 1x speed (which is the only >speed for a right/good red book audio). >(no my CD burning is not faulty :-)) Doing discs for a duplication factory should be done at 1x, I agree. But 1x is absolutely maddening these days. I can't imagine burning a CD for 80 minutes. I am so used to 6 minutes per disc, and the discs come out absolutely flawless. I use Imation or Memorex platinum (silver-top) discs exclusively for data and audio CD. Burners have really improved over the years. I have to recommend Plextor, TDK, and anyone who uses those mechanisms. I cannot recommend HP, Philips, or most Teacs at all. Of course others will have different opinions. -Morgan From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 8:27 pm Subject: ...and Marmalade Skies As a digester, and a lurker, I am replying to several posts in this one... For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even go further and name it '...and Marmalade Skies' to leave the inference to Tangerine Tree more in the open. For media, I tend to disagree with Joe...I find 'cheap' media gives me alot of problems when I try to 'rip' discs. I never have those problems with Taiyo-Yuden branded (T-Y, HP, Fujifilm), Kodak and Mitsui. If it is made in Taiwan, instead of Japan, I would shy away from it (which includes most TDK, Sony, Memorex, Maxell,...). Just my two cents. As for Nero, Joe, I know some of the later versions actually have a bug that truncates a few millisecs. off of the end of tracks when you do a rip...if you need more info on that I can dig it up. Don't remember the v.#. Also, for extraction, I would like to assert that the main trunk and branch manager's try to choose branches based on the ability to use EAC to extract files. EAC is the only program I am aware of that gives you 'bit-perfect' copies on extraction. I will also offer my services to assist in some of the remastering... Craig Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31206 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 2 KB 31222 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Joe Shoults Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31223 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Matthew Sawyer Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31224 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Administrator for kay-net.com Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31238 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Robert Grabowsky Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31372 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Antonio Nunes Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31373 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31382 Re: ...and Marmalade Skies John Vertical Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies At 03:27 PM 01/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: > If it is made in >Taiwan, instead of Japan, I would shy away from it I think this is the main thing. Most times you can find point of origin on the outside label somewhere. There is some program I've seen that can tell you this info but I don't have it handy at the moment. I'll post a link to it when I find it. Nice to see all the positive input on this project! Mike From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:44 pm Subject: [tree] costs - one idea I'm reading the posts (tons of them) from the past 24 hours, and I noticed costs are beginning to be discussed. On the Mike Oldfield list, there was a tree made from a home-remastered original version of MO's second album, Hergest Ridge, which was only available on vinyl. The CD version was a different and (for many fans) less good version. Martin Bartosik from Slovakia did a great job on carefully remastering from the original vinyl, plus creating special artwork for it, and he did a 'weed' system. He sent 5 (or something) copies for free to 5 people around the world. The way these people paid for them was by sending at least one copy of it, also for free, to someone else. So everyone paid for their copies. But yes, there were leaves, who couldn't for one reason or another record new CDs, but everyone got their copy for free, so everyone was happy and Martin Bartosik was elected 'Amaroker of the millennium' :) note: Amarok is the name of the Oldfield list, and also one of the favourite Oldfield albums of many, including myself. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31211 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31218 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31310 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:49 pm Subject: Maxell CDRs I've not had that great of luck with Maxell CDRs. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31213 Re: Maxell CDRs Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:54 pm Subject: [Tree] Wanted: a name 'Sharing the Dream' 'Seeding the Dream' 'Tangerine Dream Seeds' 'Mysterious Strands of Dreams' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31364 Re: Name of the tree TheInfection Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: 'goozergrafx' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:57 pm Subject: Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! Got Reason, started the obligatory TD-esque track (Dementia Ranger-to be finshed whenever...), quickly moved on to my own ideas... It is not very hard at all to produce the required sounds for a 'TD style' track-the samples for basically all of the old analogue/modular gear are out there-but the question soon becomes one of what do *you* want to sound like? Or at least it should...RMI, AS, FSP and the rest have already made the waters warm, so to speak. --- In tadream@y..., mengels@w... wrote: > >Reason is definitely cool, but if someone was interested > in creating the > >modular sounds of classic TD for a very reasonable price > I would HIGHLY > >suggest looking into > >the Clavia Nord Micro Modular (about $500 US) It works > with a PC and has the > >most amazing emulation of a modular sound I've heard. > > Or you could buy a real new modular. :-) > Quite some around and if you want 'that' sound > then there's plenty of modulars around like the > 'Arrick' synthesizers.com, MOTM, Doepfer etc. > IMO they are quite cheap if you compare it to > 30 years ago, although most of the techno-kids > probably think it's expensive because they use > cracked versions of 303/moog emulations etc. > > Marcel > http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels > mengels@w... > Arrick-owner... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31254 Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! mengels@w... Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs - one idea At 07:44 PM 01/11/2002 -0200, you wrote: >Martin Bartosik from Slovakia did a great job on carefully remastering >from the original vinyl, plus creating special artwork for it, and he did >a 'weed' system. Gustavo-- No disrespect meant, and glad that worked, but I've seen 'weeds' wither and die leaving a lot of people in the lurch (Monty Python reference #1). I'd rather see a structured tree formed where if someone has a problem, they have other options (branches or leaves) that can get them the goods. Plus, once it is formed, everyone can see who is getting from who and it's all so much for comforting and has a bit of crunchy frog in it. (burp) Mike Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31218 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31310 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Totta Rydqvist Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:20 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] What is a tape/CDR tree? > Hi all dremers, if the tree will happend , count me in if that is ok with you all. Totta [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Maxell CDRs seems Maxell works fine for the Yamaha burners I use. TDK being the worst.. of what luck TDK is, rather go to Vegas with the odds I get with TDK. Memorex has been doing better on the burners I use lately. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'tei waz' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: [tadream] Maxell CDRs > I've not had that great of luck with Maxell CDRs. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:39 pm Subject: [tree] name and artwork 'tangerine tree' seems pretty good, it's simple and nice. yes, without 'the' is good enough. I don't like 'marmalade skies' very much. I like this more 'generic' name, 'tangerine tree', better. this name even allows for the creation of a logotype: instead of every front cover having 'tangerine tree' written on it, it would have the logotype with a number, the number of the CDR, and the CD-title, all inserted within the artwork. the back cover would have the full title, but in kind of small letters, saying for example, - tangerine tree CD #9 - CROYDON 75 (this would be the CD-title) Croydon Fairfield Hall, England October 23rd, 1975 (a.k.a. blahblahblah, which would be the usual name of the bootleg of this concert) 1. track 1 (mm'ss') 2. track 2 (mm'ss') etc. also, all inserted in the artwork. I thought this 'tangerine tree' logotype could be some drawing of a tree or something, over the TDI logo, that one first shown on Tyger. would that be allowed? Hmm, this idea of mine, making all the covers following a certain standard, it seems it would be better if made by only one person. Yes, I'm willing to do it. I work on the computer all day, doing computer support for the people in the office who use computers (everyone uses computers there), so I'm constantly in front of my pentium III-600. Maybe, once the concert list is done and Heiko starts the mastering process, while he's mastering I could make the covers, and hopefully we would have everything ready at the same time. just some ideas... hmm, i think i've quickly got pretty excited about all this. If I get to create the covers, I would do mostly abstract artwork, using coreldraw and corel photo-paint, (version 10), and maybe using photos of the band here and there, if I feel they're good and suitable. I would create covers for 2-CD boxes (if the recording is 2-CDs, which I believe most or all of them are), but also versions for separate CDs. it would be the same, except for 'CD1' and 'CD2' on the cover. I've already rambled too much about this. >Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in >a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a >good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > >-(The) Tangerine Tree >-Marmalade skies >-A dream come true >any other ideas? :-) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31219 Re: [tree] name and artwork Steve Fri 1/11/2002 3 KB 31246 [tree] artwork Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:54 pm Subject: ripping audio I've been using audiocatalyst for a long time, and before that I used audiograbber for ripping. I don't remember ever having any problems with them, and I've read audiocatalyst being recommended with EAC as the two best ripping softwares. >Also, for extraction, I would like to assert that the main trunk and branch >manager's try to choose branches based on the ability to use EAC to extract >files. EAC is the only program I am aware of that gives you 'bit-perfect' >copies on extraction. > >I will also offer my services to assist in some of the remastering... >Craig Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31249 Re: ripping audio 3N Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:43 pm Subject: [tree] CDs I prefer using more known and traditional brands anyway; they've been more reliable. I sometimes get problems using more 'generic' media such as dr.hank and stuff. I see that indeed sometimes there are problems with 80-minute cds, so I agree that we should use 74-minute ones then. I also use Nero 5.5 which is pretty good and reliable. >As for media, in my experience, there is no data quality difference between >the cheapo and the 'expensive' CDRs, and brand doesn't matter. Where I have >had problems is in the use of the CDRs that has a shiny surface, and is not >the kind that is 'sandwiched' in the middle of the plastic. I put a >sticky-note on one of these CDRs one time, just to label it temporarily, and >when I pulled the stickynote off, it removed the silver stuff with it. But >if you are picky about media, once you get the CDR you can transfer it onto >your own media, plus you can specify those criteria with your branchline. > >I use Nero to burn, and I never get coasters, never have problems. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: tadreaming@c... Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 10:58 pm Subject: tree Please count me in on the tree too. Martyn Capel Phoenix AZ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31226 Tree PENFOLD Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs - one idea As far as I remember there was a list of the branches available... the main point was that the cost would be passed in form of the person making copies for someone else. the person who received a copy would pay by sending another copy for someone else. I think this is a good idea; I'm not very comfortable with the idea of sending money to another country. >No disrespect meant, and glad that worked, but I've seen 'weeds' wither and >die leaving a lot of people in the lurch (Monty Python reference #1). I'd >rather see a structured tree formed where if someone has a problem, they >have other options (branches or leaves) that can get them the goods. >Plus, once it is formed, everyone can see who is getting from who and it's >all so much for comforting and has a bit of crunchy frog in it. >(burp) >Mike Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31310 Re: [tree] costs - one idea Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: 'Steve' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:20 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] name and artwork A Tree of Dreams? Gustavo said: > Hmm, this idea of mine, making all the covers following a certain > standard, it seems it would be better if made by only one person. The actual compositing of the graphics would be best done by just one person to achieve a 'house style', but I'm sure there are other graphic artists on the list who'd like to contribute artwork for this project. I sure would :) An awful lot of my work has been made while listening to TD: it would be great to return the favour, as it were! (And if anyone from TDI is reading this, yes, I'd love to do the artwork for the next TD release ) Steve www.craftman.co.uk www.rotties-r-us.co.uk Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31246 [tree] artwork Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:01 am Subject: burning (was RE: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True) I'll add that the software makes a difference, as well. I've never had one problem with Nero and recommend it highly. (www.ahead.de) As for straight disk copying, I also recommend DiscJuggler. Joe np: Alan Parsons Project - I Robot > -----Original Message----- ... > Burners have really improved over the years. I have to > recommend Plextor, > TDK, and anyone who uses those mechanisms. I cannot recommend > HP, Philips, > or most Teacs at all. Of course others will have different opinions. > > -Morgan > From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:40 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] name and artwork From: 'Steve' > The actual compositing of the graphics would be best done by just one person > to achieve a 'house style', I've designed a number of TD bootleg covers for myself, and I use a particular house style for all of them. I've placed an example on the web at www.maff.da.ru/tdcov.htm I'd be happy to handle all the covers, or I could have a try at setting up a template which could make all the covers 'uniform' while at the same time allowing people to contribute their own graphics or photos. Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31265 [tree] idea for artwork style Gustavo Jobim Sun 1/13/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:11 am Subject: RE: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies > For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even go I liked this one right away, and it more now. > For media, I tend to disagree with Joe...I find 'cheap' media > gives me alot > of problems when I try to 'rip' discs. I never have those wow. a lot of people have disagreed with me about cheap vs. name brand. well, all I know is that I've never had a problem, but on a widespread scale, I think it would be proper to recommend brand name disks. Of course, it is between you and your branchline. I use Sony CRX140E burners with Nero (primarily). The latest batch of CDRs is 80-minute K-hypermedia, and they work like a charm. I also use memorex and TDK. But you guys are making me paranoid, like I should be recopying them or something! ;-) > > As for Nero, Joe, I know some of the later versions actually > have a bug that ...Don't remember the v.#. I'm using 5.0.3.1. I've never perceived a need to upgrade because it does more than I need it to do (have you ever used the DirectX plugin filter capabilities? cool!) I will second this for EAC. I've even recovered badly damaged disks with it. From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies From: 'Joe Shoults' > wow. a lot of people have disagreed with me about cheap vs. name brand. I use Nero with generic brand discs, and out of the last 300 discs I've burned I've had no coasters or data errors at all. For the tree however I will of course use whatever brand discs are agreed upon. If we ever manage to agree on a brand, that is! ;-) Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:10 am Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies even if a brand was agreed on, not all burners would work equally well. goes as well to the software used. I think everyone should try to use what works and as high as quality as possible. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies > From: 'Joe Shoults' > > > wow. a lot of people have disagreed with me about cheap vs. name brand. > > > I use Nero with generic brand discs, and out of the last 300 discs I've > burned I've had no coasters or data errors at all. For the tree however I > will of course use whatever brand discs are agreed upon. If we ever manage > to agree on a brand, that is! ;-) > > Maff > _______________________________________________________ > www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru > www.tachyon-tv.co.uk > www.eclipsecafe.com > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Vincent Goudreault' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:27 am Subject: Re: CD tre > Subject: Re: Tape tree > Well, I am most likely a newbee as far as burning CD is concerned, only acquired a CD burner for the computer a few months ago, and having never burned a music CD before will probably end up wasting a few blanks before I get it right, but I presume there is good music to share, so why not? So, I would be volunteering to act as a branch, for the North-Eastern part of North America. C.B.V.Goudreault (from Laval, just North of Montreal, Canada) From: PENFOLD Date: Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:04 pm Subject: Tree oops wrong format count me in Pete Isaacson Los Angeles CA Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: 'Kassel24' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:22 am Subject: Audio CDR's vs PC CDR's and Brand Names. Some FACTS about CDR's but not conclusive...... AUDIO CDR vs. Normal CDR Media (PC) Supposedly it is fact that Audio CDR's are of a better quality and will have longer life expectancy as opposed to Normal (PC) CDR's. Whilst there is no audible difference between Audio CDR's and PC CDR's .... The life expectancy for a Computer CDR's is currently around 10 years or more...... At around 10 years you should ideally backup important data or format information to 'new' CDR media Audio CDR's are expected to last longer and be more relaible and are less susceptible to attack/damage by the element. Depending on the Brand make they all make different claims to their Media format... we will know the answer in 10 years! Ray From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts I've listened to a few concert recordings and find that for the most part there are certain sections I look forward to and some I just bide my time through. Let's face it, improv is not always masterful and there are parts that just don't groove. But like the poem, 'when she was good, she was very very good,' when TD suddenly hits that mark in concert, there is no comparison. Therefore, I don't think it is necessary to release an entire concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best parts. And that is what they started to do with Antique Dreams, but then they got all the pissing and moaning about how it was tangentized which to me has come to signify 'cleaned up'. I don't want to hear tch tch tch tch from an untouched concert ruined by time and tape frailty. I want perfection. There is nothing wrong with trying to release music to a quality standard even if it means removing some sounds and substituting better ones to cover. Having said all that though, in listening to some of these concerts like Cirque Royale I am just absolutely awed at how wonderful it must have been to actually be at a concert like that. Patrons must have walked out of the hall absolutely stunned. How I wish I could have been there. Actually, how I wish I could just see them once. I sure hope the USA tour can be re-arranged. 8-) Dell NP: Electrofog. One of those magic moments. As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. >From: vic rek >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concert trading - Tangentized Tapes Offered >Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:47:40 -0500 > >If I had a choice, I would probably prefer re-mixed over tangentized, but I >believe with this attitude that 'it's gotta be either pure or we'll hate >it' is exactly why we are not getting any old releases like this. Maybe if >you heard that original tape and was told to burn it directly to disc, you >may have second thoughts. Much of what we like may not be exactly what we >hear, but what we think we know. > >What am I saying here ?!!? :-) > >Vic As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: 'Eric Williamson' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:50 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts opinion spouting ahead. apologies to those offended. Adele said: >signify 'cleaned up'. I don't want to hear tch tch tch tch from an untouched >concert ruined by time and tape frailty. I want perfection. There is nothing >wrong with trying to release music to a quality standard even if it means >removing some sounds and substituting better ones to cover. IMNSHO there are much better ways of restoring dubious concert tape than recording new dubious parts over it. check out The League Of Gentlemen's Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx (on Robert Fripp's Discipline label ... the finest model for an indie label if i ever saw one). it's a live album compiled from dozens of _cassette_ recordings made with a 1980-era consumer deck and 1980-era consumer microphones at the back of the club. it sounds a little raw, but amazing other than that (i like it way more than their studio album). an intelligent sound engineer with a good pair of ears and a 1999-era SADiE workstation did a great job whereas Eddie Froese and the factory presets of a Triton ProX did a great job of pissing off several listeners. i just don't trust someone who brags about using factory presets because he's 'sick of people sampling' him with restoring old concert tape. i just about barfed when i heard Soundmill Navigator after paying 20 dollars for it. in the future i'm _definitely_ going to stick to bootlegs when it comes to that stuff. again this is all old news blah blah blah it's a subjective debate where there are no rights and wrongs so on and so forth. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31234 Re: TD Concerts Morgan Feldon Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB 31245 Re: TD Concerts Mark Filipak Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31353 Re: TD Concerts Adele Outland Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31356 Re: TD Concerts scfeldman@j... Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:18 am Subject: [tree] costs hmm. thinking over and discussing i came to the conclusion that that thing i was saying, about getting the cds for free and then sending for free (instead of paying in one way or another for them), doesnt work in this tree's case; it seems it's clocking at 30-60 cds... this would work nicely if we were talking about 1, 2 or even 3 cds, but the work of burning and packing and posting such a big amount of cds is just too much to fit this system. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31321 Re: [tree] costs Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:17 am Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True >Gustavo Jobim said: >As far as I remember there was a list of the branches available... the main >point was that the cost would be passed in form of the person making copies for >someone else. the person who received a copy would pay by sending another copy >for someone else. I think this is a good idea; I have never heard of a tree operated this way. Are you talking about a free-form tree instead of something organized? The main reason people sign up to be leaves is because they have a CD burner sufficient speed and enough free time to commit to this. I'm open to ideas, but I think it's unrealistic for the branches to be expected to have to go out and buy 50-70 CDRs on their own, spend hours or days copying them (depending on the speed of their burner), and then have to pack and pay for shipping too? And to the folks poo-pooing 2-for-1, back when CDRs were $1.50 each, 2 blanks-for-1-in-return made it a decent deal because the $2-4 shipping and inkjet, paper costs, etc. was covered. Now, CDRs are 30-40 cents for excellent-quality blanks (without jewel case). 2-for-1 CDRs plus postage sounds better. Really, if I were a potential branch and found out that I can't at least recoup my costs (the tree mantras all say 'not for profit, but costs are covered'), then I'll just get these CDRs from Hieko or Duncan directly. Hieko isn't making any recordings available now that you can't get directly from them by direct trade. This is simply a way of getting things around and more easily into the US with less cost to each listener. > I'm not very comfortable with the idea of sending money to another country. As with almost every other tape/CDR tree, especially ones on the UWP list, there will be a West Europe tree, an East Europe tree, and a North American tree. Only the seeds will have to be sent from Europe to the US to initialize the tree over here. Hope to hear alternate viewpoints on this. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31335 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:24 am Subject: Audio CDR vs. Data CDR Audio and Data CDR are identical. Audio CDR are tagged differently and are useable in standalone (separate box) music CD copiers. 1/2 of the price of Audio CDR blanks is a 'music piracy tax' that is paid to the music labels (not the artists). Some standalone CD Recorders can be hacked to use ordinary data CDRs. I have heard nothing conclusive to state that you are really buying anything extra with an Audio CDR than a small cheque for the music industry. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31244 Re: Audio CDR vs. Data CDR Mark Filipak Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Rumpelstiltskin Thanks for the back up reply and I hope I can meet you this year at the Okee gathering. Ok, I recommend Rumpelstiltskin, but failing that I would say that other examples of songs too sweet for many on the list would be Body Corporate or Death of a Nightingale or just about anything with the sax in it or any piano solo all of which I love. I don't mean to imply that I don't like other things because another favorite is also Reims and you don't get much more different than that, or Ricochet either, my first hook album. And, Greg, I don't mean to imply that some of the guys don't like the more harmonious compositions either. In fact, at this point, I'm like Vic. What am I trying to say here? LOL 8-) Dell As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. >From: 'horrod6' >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: [tadream] Re: Rumpelstiltskin >Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 21:57:48 -0000 >Well, I guess the number of females on the list is too small for a >statistically significant sample, but I agree with you strongly on Cinnamon >Road. I haven't heard Rumpelstiltskin, so I can't comment on that one. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:39 am Subject: RE: TD Concerts >Adele Outland said: >Therefore, I don't think it is necessary to release an entire >concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best parts. We already have Parallel Dreams 1 and 2, Electronic History, Sea of Dreams, and many other compilations totalling at least 45 CDRs worth. These are great samplers and I encourage people to get their mitts on them. However, now that full concerts of much higher quality are surfacing, it's time for the digital tape tree to come back. :) >And that is >what they started to do with Antique Dreams, but then they got all the >pissing and moaning about how it was tangentized which to me has come to >signify 'cleaned up'. None of the additions to Antique Dreams were done to repair/improve audio quality as the audio quality on all of those sources was already excellent. (except Ultima Thule which had some tape hiss which was left untreated). >I don't want to hear tch tch tch tch from an untouched >concert ruined by time and tape frailty. I want perfection. We've gone over this regarding Soundmill Navigator. None of the additions or 'tangentization' was done in an effort to repair the original music. Further, several qualified music technicians on this list demonstrated that Soundmill Navigator could be completely and successfully denoised without harming the music underneath. A fixed version of Soundmill Navigator appeared as Planetary Navigator (which we should not discuss further, as this is based off an official release). If Edgar wants to make additions to old recordings and label it properly, there's nothing I or anyone else can do to stop him, and there is certainly such a market for these recordings. But let's not try to say that these Tangentizations are necessary to clean up the audio. >There is nothing >wrong with trying to release music to a quality standard even if it means >removing some sounds and substituting better ones to cover. I've yet to hear any additions to TD music releases in the past few years that exhibit an obvious motive of repairing a tape flaw or objective flaw in the musical performance (a missed or bum note). Instead, these additions have been for better or worse, subjective musical hindsight. Many people are happy to buy anything Edgar turns out, and I will not try to ruin it for those fans in my posts! -Morgan From: 'L. Darby' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:00 am Subject: Tree's and such To all concerned..... wonderful to see trees/weeds etc. begin to surface here. When you sit in the middle of the old USA, you don't get the opportunity to see Edgar & Co. frequently (if at all !) All are to be commended for the time and effort that has gone in to this project. Even though I may be a digester and a lurker, I have participated in trees/weeds on other lists I have been a part of. For reference, here are some concerns/pitfalls to be on the look out for. 1) Poor extractions -- the more times music is written>extracted >written>extracted, the greater the change for padding offset which can potentially lead to poor quality disks. Several ways to avoid this are: a)using shn disks to all branches with MD5 check sums so there is only the convert to wav before burning. Zero loss. b) download by branches of shn or waves from an FTP server for the seeds. 2) Poor quality media -- most all the trees I have been part of mandated the use of Kodak's or Mitsui's for branches from the root. What individuals wanted to use as leafs was their business. I won't get into the generic-is-as-good-as-the-brand argument with anyone. But let me offer all this link and let you read it: http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_quality.shtml Personally, I use Kodak's and Mitsui's. Generally Kodak's are easier to find and the Infoguard layer is another protection you can get. I have disks that are over seven years old from trees and there has been no problems at all. 3) Profiteering -- One of the more insidious items is users who get tree'd disks and turn around and off them for sale on ebay and the like. On some lists, that is grounds for banishment from the list and from the trees. Nothing irks tree parents more than to see a copy of their appear on a high dollar Japanese label like Tarantura. In the incident I refer to, the tree parents uncovered that the Japanese release was identical to their original source shn disks! I recommend the same restriction. 4) MP3's -- yep, no matter what you do, these tree'd items will be ripped to mp3's and made available to the public via the net. Accept it going in as a part of life. These are a few of the items I've been aware of in my tree participation days. Take them as little more than observations and ideas. Use them if you see fit. Ignore them if you want. I'm more than happy to discuss off list anything I can. Just be aware I don't reply to flame mail. I look forward to the rise of new tree's of great material. Thanks again to all. CD TOM _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:02 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I know I suggested 'A Dream Come True', but I've thought it over. I'd like to suggest some names that express 1) The spirit of TD music (e.g., Pergammon, Exit and others), 2) The Internet's part in this, and 3) A hope for the future. 'One World Dream' 'World of Dreams' 'Dreams of the World' 'World Dreaming' 'Dream Age of the World' 'Dream of Worlds to Come' 'Dreaming of Worlds to Come' 'Earth Dreams' 'Dream Age' 'Age of Dreams' 'Epoch of Dreams' 'Dream Horizon' 'Dream Catalyst' No matter what name is chosen (and really, any title is okay with me) I would like it to be in German. TD is a German band. It makes German music. We owe a lot to the German spirit of rebirth that is in TD music and in the German people. I think it would be a nice tribute. I also think it would be nice if we could use the TD logo. Could Edgar be persuaded? (Probably not!) Ciao -- Mark Heiko Heerssen wrote: > > Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in > a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a > good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > > -(The) Tangerine Tree > -Marmalade skies > -A dream come true > > any other ideas? :-) > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31248 Re: [Tree] a name Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:30 am Subject: shn? What are shn disks? What are shn disks? -- Mark 'L. Darby' wrote: > > 1) Poor extractions -- the more times music is written>extracted > >written>extracted, the greater the change for padding offset which can > potentially lead to poor quality disks. Several ways to avoid this are: > > a)using shn disks to all branches with MD5 check sums so there > is only the convert to wav before burning. Zero loss. > > b) download by branches of shn or waves from an FTP server for > the seeds. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31243 Re: shn? What are shn disks? Mark Filipak Sat 1/12/2002 4 KB From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies Why 'rip' the CD to your hard drive????? Or copy files?????? Why not just use the copy function with DAO (disc at once)? I use EZ CD Creator 5 and do not have any problems. I also have a stand alone burner in my stereo system which works great to. My vote for a name for the series: 'Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies' Robert >As for Nero, Joe, I know some of the later versions actually have a bug that >truncates a few millisecs. off of the end of tracks when you do a rip...if >you need more info on that I can dig it up. Don't remember the v.#. > >Also, for extraction, I would like to assert that the main trunk and branch >manager's try to choose branches based on the ability to use EAC to extract >files. EAC is the only program I am aware of that gives you 'bit-perfect' >copies on extraction. > From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:42 am Subject: [tree] Planning for a 'larger' future Hi, Overlap across discs ==================== I'd like to suggest: When breaking a set to fit on 2 or more discs, duplicate at least 5 seconds of material from the end of one disc to the beginning of the following disc. That way, when a larger capacity media becomes commonly available (such as DVD-audio), we can all simply edit out the overlap and join the wav files and reburn. Technical notes on discs ======================== I'd also like to see notations on the discs as to the time or number of frames or bytes up to the point of the overlap so that future editing will be easier -- it would take the guess work out of snipping off the overlap prior to joining for the larger capacity media in the future. An example of a note might be this: 'Note: Content after 62:32.3045 overlaps the next disc in this series.' Ciao -- Mark From: KMJ Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 4:26 am Subject: Re: New Digital Tape Tree Will there be an option for branches to receive their discs as SHN's? Kevin From: 'Vince LeGrand' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 5:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] a new 'Digital tape tree'...? I'd like to join the tree, also. I'm in Pennsylvania. Vince From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 6:52 am Subject: [tree] Hidden pictures I'm glad to see you are warming up to this tree idea, Gustavo. :-) I have an idea. You know how Edgar and Monika hid pictures of Jerome? Let's hide pictures of Edgar, Chris, and Peter. Ciao -- Mark Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > just some ideas... hmm, i think i've quickly got pretty excited about all this. If I get to create the covers, I would do mostly abstract artwork, using coreldraw and corel photo-paint, (version 10), and maybe using photos of the band here and there, if I feel they're good and suitable. I would create covers for 2-CD boxes (if the recording is 2-CDs, which I believe most or all of them are), but also versions for separate CDs. it would be the same, except for 'CD1' and 'CD2' on the cover. I've already rambled too much about this. From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 7:27 am Subject: Re: shn? What are shn disks? Hi. Thanks. I read it over. I'd hoped there was such a lossless compress scheme. SHN (shortened) files are wav files that have been compressed using a widely used, lossless compression scheme that produces a 40% to 50% average size reduction. They are not red book and therefore will not play on CD players, but they can be decompressed and played on-the-fly on all 32 bit versions of Windows and on Linux systems using readily available freeware. A SHN on-the-fly decompressor is not currently available for Apple operating systems. SHN files can be bulk decompressed and saved as wav files on all platforms. How's that for a thumbnail sketch of SHN? This sounds like a dynamite way to archive wav files but not a good way do distribute CDRs. I think that the inability to play them on home stereos is a show stopper. If I were to design a home VCD/CD/MP3 player, I'd add SHN to the repetoir, for sure. By comparison, ZIP compression is lossless but only achieves a 9% reduction when applied to wav files. Ciao -- Mark 'L. Darby' wrote: > > Try this link for an explanation that is probably better than I can give: > > http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html > > CD TOM > > >From: Mark Filipak > >To: tadream@yahoogroups.com, omayyad@h... > >Subject: shn? What are shn disks? > >Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:30:28 -0500 > > > >What are shn disks? -- Mark > > > >'L. Darby' wrote: > > > > > > 1) Poor extractions -- the more times music is written>extracted > > > >written>extracted, the greater the change for padding offset which can > > > potentially lead to poor quality disks. Several ways to avoid this are: > > > > > > a)using shn disks to all branches with MD5 check sums so there > > > is only the convert to wav before burning. Zero loss. > > > > > > b) download by branches of shn or waves from an FTP server for > > > the seeds. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:27 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Audio CDR vs. Data CDR Boy! I'd really like to know the answer to this vexing question. Though an electrical engineer, I unfortunately cannot throw my weight in either direction, however, I find it extremely hard to believe that data CDRs are less reliable than music CDRs. The facts ========= 1 - Large companies use data CDRs to archive nearly priceless data. 2 - Computer grade tape is higher quality than any audio tape. 3 - DAT (digital audio tape) was developed to digitally store consumer audio. 4 - DDS (digital data storage) looks like DAT, but is more reliable. Morgan's explanation makes sense to me. I have heard that audio CDR is a marketing gimmick. I may be wrong. Ciao -- Mark (who hates to quibble as he has done here and hopes someone has the time to comprehensively research this topic) Morgan Feldon wrote: > > Audio and Data CDR are identical. > > Audio CDR are tagged differently and are useable in standalone (separate > box) music CD copiers. 1/2 of the price of Audio CDR blanks is a 'music > piracy tax' that is paid to the music labels (not the artists). > > Some standalone CD Recorders can be hacked to use ordinary data CDRs. > > I have heard nothing conclusive to state that you are really buying > anything extra with an Audio CDR than a small cheque for the music industry. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts Adele Outland wrote: > > I've listened to a few concert recordings and find that for the most part > there are certain sections I look forward to and some I just bide my time > through. Let's face it, improv is not always masterful and there are parts > that just don't groove. But like the poem, 'when she was good, she was very > very good,' when TD suddenly hits that mark in concert, there is no > comparison. Therefore, I don't think it is necessary to release an entire > concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best parts. I didn't read past this. My reaction, Adele? You're about to get it (brace yourself!) 1 - What is one person's good parts is entirely a matter of PERSONAL opinion. 2 - If you want to cut out the boring parts, feel free to take your CDR, and burn a 'best of' version. 3 - Don't presume to make decisions for anyone but you. Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:29 am Subject: RE:[tree] artwork Yeah, we could gather the artwork by anyone who'd like to contribute, and then they would be arranged by one person. This is much better indeed, and would bring a good visual variety to the whole thing. In the meantime I think I'll start making some abstract sketches that we can use later, or if we don't then I'll keep them for myself :) >Gustavo said: > >> Hmm, this idea of mine, making all the covers following a certain >> standard, it seems it would be better if made by only one person. > >The actual compositing of the graphics would be best done by just one person >to achieve a 'house style', but I'm sure there are other graphic artists on >the list who'd like to contribute artwork for this project. I sure would :) >An awful lot of my work has been made while listening to TD: it would be >great to return the favour, as it were! (And if anyone from TDI is reading >this, yes, I'd love to do the artwork for the next TD release ) > >Steve Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: tadreaming@c... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:55 am Subject: Correlations I thought maybe someone would be interested in ASHRA's CD Correlations being available at Half.com for $9.99. This isn't something I'm selling, just saw it, and passing along info, very rare CD. Martyn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:09 am Subject: Re: [Tree] a name What about 'tangerine traum'? but I still think 'tangerine tree' is a pretty good name. hmm, what's the word for 'tangerine tree' in german? >No matter what name is chosen (and really, any title is okay with me) I would like it to be in German. TD is a German band. It makes German music. We owe a lot to the German spirit of rebirth that is in TD music and in the German people. I think it would be a nice tribute. > >I also think it would be nice if we could use the TD logo. Could Edgar be persuaded? (Probably not!) > >Ciao -- Mark Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: '3N' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] ripping audio HeY Gustavo! ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustavo Jobim To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 11:54 PM Subject: [tadream] ripping audio > I've been using audiocatalyst for a long time, and before that I used audiograbber for ripping. I don't remember ever having any problems with them, and I've read audiocatalyst being recommended with EAC as the two best ripping softwares. Yes, Audiocatalyst (the same as Audiograber) is not bad, but the best application for ripping audio is Sonic's SoundForge with CD Architect module. Audiocatalyst sometims report aspii error and you must manage with rip-offset parameters (in fact - cutoff fragments of originals). And the best program for coping entire disks is CD-Clone (not any Nero, WinCD aso). CD-clone make copies based on innerstructure of CD - he read entire clusters of package information and write it on HDD, and later on destination CDR. But he require a burninghardware with raw-servise in read and write method. Only this way we can make perfectly and exactly copies of original cds. lurker-regards JerzyK 'The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.' (NP- RainbowSerpent-Voyager) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Zanim zaczniesz swoj dzien... >>> http://dziendobry.interia.pl/ From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:57 am Subject: [tadream] Deadly Care Hi all, Just heard some TD music on French TV, worth mentioning because it's so rare in this country, on a programme called 'Envoyé Spécial', France 2, Thursday 10th January 2002, they played 'In Bed' from 'Deadly Care'. It was a programme about women keeping or aborting downs syndrome babies, charming subject... Paul From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 12:00 pm Subject: [tree] Name Really, I'd like this project and these discs to have a name that will be memorable and meaningful 5 years from now. I realize this is a tree, but does the name have to say 'tree'? Would 'Tangerine Tree' mean anything 5 years from now? Album Cover: _______________________ | | | TraumEpoche | | _______________ | | | | | | | | | | | artwork | | | | here | | | | | | | |_______________| | | | | Tangerine Dream | |_______________________| Obviously patterned after the classic LP covers. Or how about 'TraumKatalysator'? Or 'Epoche von Träumen'? Regarding 'The trees are tangerine', 1) That was The Ones, not Tangerine Dream, and 2) Edgar has stated that the name did not come from 'Lucy in the Skies With Diamonds'. I'd really like these discs to have non-kitsch names that have dignity and that are in German. My 2E-2 U$D -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31261 Re: [tree] Name and artwork Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB From: jbrenholts@a... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:01 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [Tree] a name In a message dated 1/12/2002 5:09:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gustavojobim@n... writes: << what's the word for 'tangerine tree' in german? >> mandarine bau, and that sounds cool also! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31253 Re: [Tree] a name jbrenholts@a... Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: jbrenholts@a... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 1:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [Tree] a name In a message dated 1/12/2002 8:03:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, jbrenholts@a... writes: << In a message dated 1/12/2002 5:09:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, gustavojobim@n... writes: << what's the word for 'tangerine tree' in german? >> mandarine bau, and that sounds cool also! >> oops! it is mandarine baum! From: Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 2:36 pm Subject: Re: Reason and Nord and Tygers and Bears, oh my! >Quoten goozergrafx : > > Got Reason, started the obligatory TD-esque track (Dementia Ranger-to > be finshed whenever...), quickly moved on to my own ideas... > > It is not very hard at all to produce the required sounds for a 'TD > style' track-the samples for basically all of the old analogue/modular > gear are out there-but the question soon becomes one of what do *you* > want to sound like? Or at least it should...RMI, AS, FSP and the rest > have already made the waters warm, so to speak. It's easy to make a bass sound, but a fat Moogbass like sound is something different. I've come across very very little machines which are capable of it. I guess I want to sound like FSP...they're my hero's. :-) Hmmm it's kind of strange nobody reacted to the speed which CDRs are recorded or that nobody is concerned about it. I've had quite some recordings which had some flaws in it because of burning with a too high speed. Even recently I got the Hampshire recordings and, while Tony Sawford has done a superb job recording the whole event, it definitely had some flaws because of the higher speeds. He made us a new master and it was good. If you want good material then you have to record it the right way. It may take a while but it makes all the difference. Plus it gets worse more down the leaves...if a branch is copying at a high speed and the 2nd one is copying at also a high speed then the flaws/errors has doubled. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels (FSP site) mengels@w... From: 'Craig Cordrey' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:28 pm Subject: RE: [tree] Some General Comments Folks, The tree topic has certainly picked things up. I wonder if Heiko is now cowering in the corner of a room thinking 'What have I done?'. Some general comments from me on a numbr of issues: Artwork: Personally, I like the idea of a common look to the artwork of all the disks that appear in the series. I'd also prefer individuals to download the artwork from some suitable site rather than have it sent on CD. Printed would also be good (but since I have a temperamental printer, I worry for anyone for whom I am the branch. Title: I can't remember the last time TD used a German album title, so why should we? I also don;t understand why the word 'Dream' has to be in there - I find some of TD's official album titles a little irritating in this respect. THis frees us to use titles along the lines of those used on existing boots (e.g. Sonambulistic Imagery, Spherical Harmonics, Raetikon, Antaktis). I do like the idea of having a simple title for the tree and having each CD numbered (e.g. Tree Title 1 - Live at Dunfermline Carnegie Hall). Media: I have a much larger problem with the issue of media. I am not an audiophile - I am happy if the media plays and tend not to worry about the make. Certainly there are some makes that appear to record better on my burner and so I tend to stick to these. And as for burning mechanism - I use Easy CD Creator and if that isn't good enough then I guess I#ll have to switch from branch to tree. Althoguh I have my preferences, I don't reall mind about the artwork and name. The media, however, may mean that I am not able to particpate as a branch. I trust that when the tress get up and running, any specific instructions will be made clear before we commit to being branches or leaves. All the best, Craig Cordrey Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31293 Re: [tree] Some General Comments Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/14/2002 4 KB From: kassel24@h... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:54 pm Subject: Are : Audio and Data CDR are identical ? Morgan You suggested that Audio and Data CDR are identical ... they are not... there is obvious physical differences between Data and Audio CDR.... reflective surface for instance........ i.e. Gold vs. Blue surface.. that makes me suspicious for a start .....? What you suggest is all CDR's are the same .......... except the price then !? Perhaps... ?! I have seen data on Data CDR life span, but not on Audio CDR.... that would be a interesting comparison... Ray 'Audio and Data CDR are identical.Audio CDR are tagged differently and are useable in standalone (separate box) music CD copiers. 1/2 of the price of Audio CDR blanks is a 'music piracy tax' that is paid to the music labels (not the artists). Some standalone CD Recorders can be hacked to use ordinary data CDRs. I have heard nothing conclusive to state that you are really buying anything extra with an Audio CDR than a small cheque for the music industry. -Morgan' From: 'L. Darby' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 4:13 pm Subject: Mac for shn? No Mac tools ? Not quite. On this link: http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html there are links for Mac tools for shn. SHN IS a distribution format -- it's just not as great a playable format (although there are plugins here http://www.etree.org/software.html for windows and Linux users.) The way the other groups use shn is to ensure (!!) that music on the disks from seed>superbranch>branch is identical. That is where the md5 sum comes into place. The other advantage is that a copy of an shn disk can be done as a data disk with no extraction needed. For those who want more info on shn, here is the link I sent Mark. http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html CD TOM _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:12 pm Subject: Breaking up tracks across discs. >Mark Filipak said: > >Overlap across discs >==================== >I'd like to suggest: When breaking a set to fit on 2 or more discs, duplicate >at least 5 seconds of material from the end of one disc to the beginning of the >following disc. That way, when a larger capacity media becomes commonly >available (such as DVD-audio), we can all simply edit out the overlap and join >the wav files and reburn. > >Technical notes on discs >======================== >I'd also like to see notations on the discs as to the time or number of frames >or bytes up to the point of the overlap so that future editing will be easier >-- it would take the guess work out of snipping off the overlap prior to >joining for the larger capacity media in the future. An example of a note might >be this: I'm hopeful that, like the Digital Tape Tree, NONE of the concerts will be broken in the middle of a track from disc to disc. This is really an analog cassette way of doing things and is really not very nice for the listener. Since most TD sets are 24 to 44 minutes long, I'd say that every effort should be made to put each set or piece of a concert in its entirety on a disc and then either put encores or other bits as filler. CD-Rs are getting cheap enough and burners fast enough that having a disc with 5-10 min of free space is not going to kill anyone. For those who are concerned about putting as much as 76 min of audio on an 80 min CDR, CD-Recordable drives are running $70 for 8x models now. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31262 Re: Breaking up tracks across discs. Gustavo Jobim Sat 1/12/2002 3 KB 31294 Re: Breaking up tracks across discs. Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 8:20 pm Subject: Audio vs. Data CDR >kassel24 said >You suggested that Audio and Data CDR are identical ... they are not... >there is obvious physical differences >between Data and Audio CDR.... reflective surface for instance........ i.e. >Gold vs. Blue surface.. >that makes me suspicious for a start .....? >What you suggest is all CDR's are the same .......... except the price then >!? Perhaps... ?! It's funny because in the CD-R world, specifically data, gold-bottomed discs are generally not desireable as they, along with some of the green-bottom discs are made with the cheapest materials and some lasers have trouble reading them, etc. In the audio world, this seems to be different. I would like to hear more inputs on this. The bottom line though, is that in organizing the tree, people the branches have to be able to copy from a Data CD master, as I am sure that is what Hieko is providing. And that whoever is mailing blanks to their branches must be aware if they must send Data or Audio CDRs (or a few bucks in lieu of trying to hunt down the proper discs). But let's be sure, gold, blue, green, silver, and black-bottom CDRs are all available in reasonable prices for data CDR. I have some black-bottom CDRs sitting here at the moment waiting for some important project. Perhaps the test pressings of Definitive Dominion :) -Morgan From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:30 pm Subject: Bug in Nero 5.5 (for those interested) Since I saw alot of people say they use Nero as their preferred software for burning, I thought I would pass along this link which illustrates quite clearly the bug that truncates wave files when burning. It may or may not be noticeable, but why take a chance if you can easily find other programs that do not exhibit this problem. Just my two cents. http://www.geocities.com/lanekelly5/NeroBug.html Still looking forward to the tree! Craig From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:59 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Name and artwork TraumEpoche sounds nice, but maybe we could find a better name. What about Traumstücke (Dream pieces)? now this looks pretty good to me... I'd prefer the artwork taking the whole cover, not a framed cover as you seem to propose. We already have those ugly framed old TD CDs... I don't like framed covers, but a thick outline, or a thin frame like 0.5 cm thick often looks good to me. And it's better when you have to cut the paper, that way you avoid cutting any milimeter of artwork. >Really, I'd like this project and these discs to have a name that will be memorable and meaningful 5 years from now. I realize this is a tree, but does the name have to say 'tree'? Would 'Tangerine Tree' mean anything 5 years from now? > >Album Cover: _______________________ > | | > | TraumEpoche | > | _______________ | > | | | | > | | | | > | | artwork | | > | | here | | > | | | | > | |_______________| | > | | > | Tangerine Dream | > |_______________________| > >Obviously patterned after the classic LP covers. > >Or how about 'TraumKatalysator'? >Or 'Epoche von Träumen'? > >Regarding 'The trees are tangerine', 1) That was The Ones, not Tangerine Dream, and 2) Edgar has stated that the name did not come from 'Lucy in the Skies With Diamonds'. > >I'd really like these discs to have non-kitsch names that have dignity and that are in German. > >My 2E-2 U$D -- Mark Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:19 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Breaking up tracks across discs. >I'm hopeful that, like the Digital Tape Tree, NONE of the concerts will be >broken in the middle of a track from disc to disc. This is really an analog >cassette way of doing things and is really not very nice for the listener. I don't like this idea either. I would prefer something that would be functional, like ordering the concerts chronologically without breaking the tracks, even if we have to make 40-minute long CDs. We could arrange the concerts in a way that we could fit the most music in the CDs, but then we could have one concert in 3 cds, being the first and the third CD mixed with another concert, and it would be awkward if we had to skip tracks to listen to the beginning of the concert that is the 2nd track in cd1, being the first track 30 minutes long. I like the idea of doing it in chronological order and put bonus tracks, encores, interesting bits or maybe even interviews or tracks which are kind of hard to get such as the solo tracks in those boxes (I suppose that actually would be forbidden) to fill those spaces. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: kassel24@h... Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 10:42 pm Subject: DVD Compact Disc Recordable Morgan The emails were going off track ... and appreciate this is not the forum to discuss this topic... I have looked up some data on Audio CDR and apparently this area is has a large variance...... all that can be said is that 'generally' Audio CDR's are made to a higher specification as opposed to Data CDR's .......... but Also the advent of DVD CDR .... in 5 years time everyone will be putting the equivalent of 8-10 audio CD's on one1 x DVD CDR .... thats a promise...!!! So we can reduce our collections to by about 80-90 % so the arguement is really over as the advent of new media format will take over ?!!!! So we might as well use cheap CDR's for the moment...! and then back them up onto DVD - CDR in 4-5 years time !!!! On another topic SACD vs CD Does anyone on the list own a SACD player... who also posses a copy of both Rubycon versions i.e. SACD + CD.... is their a 'difference' in sound ?!!! Would be interested to know..... presumably some SACD can be played on some CD equipment... but this is dependant on the manufacturer ?? Right or wrong... Ray Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31264 Re: DVD Compact Disc Recordable Michael A Jean Sat 1/12/2002 2 KB From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Sat Jan 12, 2002 11:01 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] DVD Compact Disc Recordable I thought I saw a recordable DVD player at Best Buy last month! > > Also the advent of DVD CDR .... in 5 years time everyone will be > putting the > equivalent of 8-10 audio CD's on > one1 x DVD CDR .... thats a promise...!!! So we can reduce our > collections > to by about 80-90 % > so the arguement is really over as the advent of new media format > will take > over ?!!!! > So we might as well use cheap CDR's for the moment...! and then back them > up onto DVD - CDR in 4-5 years time !!!! > > > From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 12:43 am Subject: [tree] idea for artwork style That cover is very nice, Matthew! I've made a quick draft of how the cover could look. The artwork is made of simple and usual coreldraw textures. It all looks clean and simple, but still it looks nice to me. It can obviously be improved; this is just a draft. I've used the title 'TraumStücke' I've suggested. There's a 450 kb zipfile with the 2 jpgs, front and back, in our files folder at www.yahoogroups.com/group/tadream/files . GJ np: Sergey Kuryokhin >I've designed a number of TD bootleg covers for myself, and I use a >particular house style for all of them. I've placed an example on the web at >www.maff.da.ru/tdcov.htm Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Admin' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 1:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. I was guessing that I would ask for 2 for 1, including the covers. Same brand same type. I can get access to DVD Ram. My question would be, How many would be able to use it? I can stick it on my Playstation 2 myself for playback but??? I am planning to spend a few weekends to make up the sets to sent out, hence why I said I would do only three leaves to start with. Spare time? Me? Nope, I am taking a online college class to add another degree, handling my ISP business, doing a full time day job as well as deal with 3 step kids to 9 grand kids. My life is full but I am willing to make this sacrifice because of the material. TD has had a great influence in my side endeavors (music). I am known to play TD all day in my office to much my office mates dislike. He is young kid into other forms of what may be called music in some circles. From: 'Bill Fox' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 7:27 am Subject: Orbital Decay in Concert For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, Orbital Decay will appear in concert at the Ice House on Sand Island. Located in historic Bethlehem, the Ice House is a wonderful venue for a concert of spacemusic. This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, starting at 8:00 pm. The doors will open at 7:30 pm and Chef Jeff will cater a free buffet dinner. Tickets at the door will be $10. A $2 discount will be given for members of WDIY who show their membership card. Orbital Decay consists of electric guitarist Tim Richardson and synthesist Terry Furber of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, located north of Philadelphia and south of the Lehigh Valley. Originally founded in 1979, the year when Skylab's orbit decayed in a firey return to Earth, the band is influenced by the likes of Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze, and Pink Floyd. Terry and Tim create improvisational electronic space music with the energy of fusion styles of the 70s. This means that Orbital Decay charts unexplored territory of sound and mood. Orbital Decay has three self-released CDR albums featuring their prolific studio jam sessions. These CDRs were featured on EMUSIC in December, 2001, as part of the Special Focus on Orbital Decay. On the 27th, Orbital Decay performed a live, in-studio concert on EMUSIC on WDIY. They also performed on Star's End last August. Listen to EMUSIC for more music from Orbital Decay. Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From East,West, North: Take Route 22 to Route 512/Center Street Exit (look for the Holiday Inn sign) At the exit, go south on Center Street. When Center Street becomes one-way, turn right. At the first light, turn left onto New Street. Go past Wall Street and at the dead end at Library turn right onto Church Street. Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue, go across. At the dead end, you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto River Street and go a few yards to the Ice House. Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From Philadelphia and South: Take Route 309 North. Take Route 378 into Bethlehem. At the end of Route 378 (the Hill to Hill Bridge), take a right for the Main Street exit. Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue go across. At the dead end you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto River Street and go a few yards to the Ice House. For more about Bethlehem, please visit http://www.bethtour.org/ For more information about the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton and vicinity), please visit http://www.lehighvalleypa.org/index.html For more information about EMUSIC, please visit http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic Bill billfox@f... http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic =============================================================================== Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. Thursdays at 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration. Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31277 Re: Orbital Decay in Concert Joe Shoults Sun 1/13/2002 6 KB From: 'ajogon' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 2:15 pm Subject: (OT) CDR FAQ I've posted this message yesterday, but apparently my mail server is having a bad weekend, so here it is again, via web: This is the URL of Andy McFadden's CD-Recordable FAQ, where you can read the answers to *all* your questions about CDRs and related software & hardware. http://www.cdrfaq.org/ Antonio P.S. If anyone have sent me e-mail, please send again to this address: np97fa 'at' mail 'dot' telepac 'dot' pt From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 2:47 pm Subject: tree -MP3 > 4) MP3's -- yep, no matter what you do, these tree'd items will be >ripped to mp3's and made available to the public via the net. Accept it >going in as a part of life. True, so why not start an MP3 tree (192 kB/s or higher) right away for those who prefer this format ? That would also cut down on copying time, disk and shipping cost for those who have to consider such expenses seriously. Don't forget we're talking over 15 year old concert tapes sourced from cassettes here (with one exception ;-) so a high-bitrate MP3 should be fully adequate, and one can always convert back to WAV and burn an audio CD from it a leisure. I'm prepared to volounteer as a root for the MP3-tree, i.e. do the conversion and supply continental roots with copies. cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31270 Re: tree -MP3 ajogon Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB From: 'ajogon' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 3:33 pm Subject: Re: tree -MP3 --- In tadream@y..., Klaus Beschorner wrote: > so why not start an MP3 tree (192 kB/s or higher) right > away for those who prefer this format ? Klaus, you took the words out of my mouth! I was going to suggest the same. A similar tree (A Sea of Dreams) was organized a few years ago, and it was very sucessful. > Don't forget we're talking over 15 year old concert > tapes sourced from cassettes here (with one exception ;-) > so a high-bitrate MP3 should be fully adequate, > and one can always convert back to WAV and burn > an audio CD from it a leisure. Agreed. And the quality of MP3 is being improved. See http://www.r3mix.net for high quality MP3 software. Antonio np: Tangerine Ambience 1 From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 5:23 pm Subject: [tree] tree -MP3 I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't suppose that Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main project. Okay? -- Mark Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > > 4) MP3's -- yep, no matter what you do, these tree'd items will be > >ripped to mp3's and made available to the public via the net. Accept it > >going in as a part of life. > > True, > so why not start an MP3 tree (192 kB/s or higher) right > away for those who prefer this format ? > That would also cut down on copying time, disk and > shipping cost for those who have to consider such > expenses seriously. > > Don't forget we're talking over 15 year old concert > tapes sourced from cassettes here (with one exception ;-) > so a high-bitrate MP3 should be fully adequate, > and one can always convert back to WAV and burn > an audio CD from it a leisure. > > I'm prepared to volounteer as a root for the MP3-tree, > i.e. do the conversion and supply continental roots > with copies. > > cheers, > klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31276 [tree] tree -MP3 Klaus Beschorner Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31287 Re: [tree] tree -MP3 atye@a... Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: DVD-R >I thought I saw a recordable DVD player at Best Buy last month! > > >> >> Also the advent of DVD CDR .... in 5 years time everyone will be >> putting the >> equivalent of 8-10 audio CD's on >> one1 x DVD CDR .... thats a promise...!!! DVD-R is getting amazingly cheap. $375 for a burner and $3 for a 4.7GB blank. And the discs it produces are compatible with 90% of standalone DVD players. -Morgan From: Morgan Feldon Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? >Mark Filipak said: >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't suppose that >Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't >sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main >project. Okay? -- Mark Sad to see such a vehement reaction. mp3 is growing in popularity now that the encoding software and sound quality has matured. I store (and have backups of) all of my concerts (~140 or so) natively in mp3 format and burn to music CDRs when necessary. Red Book Audio CDs are very wasteful of space, as a 192kbps mp3 produced by the higher quality software like Fraunhoffer or LAME are indistinguishable from the original, and you can put 6 hours of music on a disc. The mp3 version of Sea of Dreams was successful and did not detract in the slightest from the success of the CDR tree of the same. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31274 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Robert Grabowsky Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31275 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Mark Filipak Sun 1/13/2002 4 KB 31298 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? bigstupidgeek Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31317 Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31299 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Heiko Heerssen Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 6:44 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? I have to agree with Mark. Forget about mp3!!! It creates extra work when you burn it if you don't want any hiccups in the music. I am not talking about 2 second gaps, those are correctable with DAO. However you still have a minute glitch which is noticable. Lets keep with the original idea. Robert > >Mark Filipak said: > >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't >suppose that > >Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't > >sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main > >project. Okay? -- Mark > From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:21 pm Subject: Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? Morgan Feldon wrote: > > >Mark Filipak said: > >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I don't > suppose that > >Klaus wants to do that, but if anyone wants to do MP3s, fine, just don't > >sidetrack the digital tree please, and don't draw energy away from the main > >project. Okay? -- Mark > > Sad to see such a vehement reaction. I have the deepest respect for you, Morgan, but I use Blade at 320 kbps (about 6:1 compression) and I can __still__ hear the difference between that and red book audio. For a project as important as this, I want the best possible sound and I'm willing to pay for it in the form of many discs and many 1X burns for my leaves. If I get a car player that is MP3 compatible, I may burn an MP3 volume at 128 or 196 kbps, but for home, only red book audio please. Yes, my reaction is vehement. Music is my religion and TD is my God! > mp3 is growing in popularity now that the encoding software and sound > quality has matured. I store (and have backups of) all of my concerts (~140 > or so) natively in mp3 format and burn to music CDRs when necessary. Red > Book Audio CDs are very wasteful of space, as a 192kbps mp3 produced by the > higher quality software like Fraunhoffer or LAME are indistinguishable from > the original, and you can put 6 hours of music on a disc. From what I see and hear, the newest LAME encoders are almost as good as Blade up to 196 kbps (and Blade still rules at higher bit rates). That's still not good enough for TD music. Yes, some music is indistinguishable to me, but that is simple music without a lot of multifrequency dynamics. The frequency masking that any MP3 encoder does is detectable to me when doing A-B tests with TD music (or classical orchestral music too). > The mp3 version of Sea of Dreams was successful and did not detract in the > slightest from the success of the CDR tree of the same. Well if some people want to do a parallel tree, of course that's their business, but I want to see the main tree go unhindered and with red book audio. That's all. I missed out on every previous tree and I don't want to 'miss' out on the best sound this time. Please understand and respect my wishes. This is a dream come true for me. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31298 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? bigstupidgeek Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31317 Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:51 pm Subject: [tree] tree -MP3 >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. Mark, calm down, so am I !!! I was talking about a _parallel_ MP3 tree for those who, by their own free will, chose to prefer this format. You should know me better ;-) cheers, klaus From: Joe Shoults Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Orbital Decay in Concert thanks for the announcement, Bill! Joe Tadream Listowner > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Fox [mailto:billfox@f...] > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 2:28 AM > To: Undisclosed.Recipients@p... > Cc: info@b...; geninfo@l...; Terry Furber; Tim > Richardson > Subject: [tadream] Orbital Decay in Concert > > > For the inaugural event of the Soundscapes Concert Series, > Orbital Decay will > appear in concert at the Ice House on Sand Island. Located > in historic > Bethlehem, the Ice House is a wonderful venue for a concert > of spacemusic. > This concert will be held on Saturday, February 16, 2002, > starting at 8:00 pm. > The doors will open at 7:30 pm and Chef Jeff will cater a > free buffet dinner. > Tickets at the door will be $10. A $2 discount will be given > for members of > WDIY who show their membership card. > > Orbital Decay consists of electric guitarist Tim Richardson > and synthesist Terry > Furber of Quakertown, Pennsylvania, located north of > Philadelphia and south of > the Lehigh Valley. Originally founded in 1979, the year > when Skylab's orbit > decayed in a firey return to Earth, the band is influenced by > the likes of > Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze, and Pink Floyd. Terry and Tim create > improvisational electronic space music with the energy of > fusion styles of the > 70s. This means that Orbital Decay charts unexplored > territory of sound and > mood. > > Orbital Decay has three self-released CDR albums featuring > their prolific studio > jam sessions. These CDRs were featured on EMUSIC in December, > 2001, as part of > the Special Focus on Orbital Decay. On the 27th, Orbital > Decay performed a > live, in-studio concert on EMUSIC on WDIY. They also > performed on Star's End > last August. Listen to EMUSIC for more music from Orbital Decay. > > Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From East,West, North: > > Take Route 22 to Route 512/Center Street Exit (look for the > Holiday Inn sign) > At the exit, go south on Center Street. > When Center Street becomes one-way, turn right. > At the first light, turn left onto New Street. > Go past Wall Street and at the dead end at Library turn right > onto Church > Street. > Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. > At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue, go across. > At the dead end, you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto > River Street and go a > few yards to the Ice House. > > Directions to the Ice House at Sand Island - From > Philadelphia and South: > > Take Route 309 North. > Take Route 378 into Bethlehem. > At the end of Route 378 (the Hill to Hill Bridge), take a > right for the Main > Street exit. > Bear right, cross under the bridge and turn left onto Main Street. > At the intersection of Main Street and Lehigh Avenue go across. > At the dead end you are on Sand Island. Turn left onto River > Street and go a > few yards to the Ice House. > > For more about Bethlehem, please visit http://www.bethtour.org/ > For more information about the Lehigh Valley (Allentown, > Bethlehem, Easton and > vicinity), please visit http://www.lehighvalleypa.org/index.html > > For more information about EMUSIC, please visit > http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic > > Bill billfox@f... > http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic > ============================================================== > ================= > Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show. > Thursdays at > 11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in > Easton and > Phillipsburg. Email me if you wish to submit music for > airplay consideration. > Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 8:59 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Interesting mp3 mix Well I finally got a chance to download this and hear it. I wonder if Jerome's heard it. I hope not. As for Edgar, he'd probably have a sh*t fit. 8-)))) -- Mark 'Owens, James' wrote: > > I just found an intersting file that mixes Dolphin Dance with a track by > Dead can Dance called 'Piece for Solo Flute'. > > I'd never heard the flute piece before, but it fits incredibly well into the > Dolphin Dance chord progressions. If the mixer had done a better mixing job > it would be pretty awesome. As it stands, it sounds a bit like he turned on > Dolphin Dance on one stereo, and mixed it in with a mic into '...Solo > Flute'. This wouldn't be that bad except that '...Solo Flute is WAY too > forward in the mix. At any rate, the track is called: > Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream - Piece for Solo Flute & Dolphin Dance > (DjCH mix).mp3 > > It's circulating around the usual MP3 channels. > > James From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31281 [tree] artwork Mark Filipak Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31282 [tree] artwork Mark Filipak Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31283 Re: [tree] artwork Matthew Sawyer Sun 1/13/2002 2 KB 31285 Re: [tree] artwork meta_mythos Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31286 Re: [tree] artwork Joe Shoults Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31303 Re: [tree] artwork Éric Rochon Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31948 [tree] artwork Morgan Feldon Wed 2/6/2002 3 KB 31950 Re: [tree] artwork j.gordon Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB 31951 Re: [tree] artwork Heiko Heerssen Wed 2/6/2002 2 KB From: vic rek Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name I vote for the title '... and Marmalade Skies'. I think I've seen enough CD-R titles with the word '...Dream...' in them. Also, I don't believe the title needs to be in German since Tangerine Dream does not release their titles in German. And asking Edgar to use the TD Logo? - Forget it! So this implies that I'm in - but only as a leaf (or weed). Vic > I know I suggested 'A Dream Come True', but I've thought it over. I'd like to suggest some names that express > > 1) The spirit of TD music (e.g., Pergammon, Exit and others), > 2) The Internet's part in this, and > 3) A hope for the future. > > 'One World Dream' > 'World of Dreams' > 'Dreams of the World' > 'World Dreaming' > 'Dream Age of the World' > 'Dream of Worlds to Come' > 'Dreaming of Worlds to Come' > 'Earth Dreams' > 'Dream Age' > 'Age of Dreams' > 'Epoch of Dreams' > 'Dream Horizon' > 'Dream Catalyst' > > No matter what name is chosen (and really, any title is okay with me) I would like it to be in German. TD is a German band. It makes German music. We owe a lot to the German spirit of rebirth that is in TD music and in the German people. I think it would be a nice tribute. > > I also think it would be nice if we could use the TD logo. Could Edgar be persuaded? (Probably not!) From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: RE:[tree] artwork I really like front1.jpg (side view with Chris at the Moog). That's what I see in my mind when I think of TD in concert. Well done!! -- Mark Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > Maff From: Mark Filipak Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 9:58 pm Subject: RE:[tree] artwork Just one more thing. How about 'Digital Tree'. It's not really a 'Tape Tree' yaknow. -- Mark Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > Maff From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:16 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork From: 'Mark Filipak' > Just one more thing. How about 'Digital Tree'. It's not really a 'Tape Tree' yaknow. -- Mark Yeah, all the text on these are temporary samples and easily changed. ;-) Maff From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 11:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name How about? Diamond Dreams The Road Less Travelled Rare Visions 8-) Dell >From: Heiko Heerssen >Reply-To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >To: tadream@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [tadream] [Tree] Wanted: a name >Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:07:11 +0100 > >Just a short question before I switch off my PC and leave the office in >a couple of minutes: is there anyone out there in TD land who knows a >good name for the 'CDR tree' series? Someone suggested the following: > >-(The) Tangerine Tree >-Marmalade skies >-A dream come true > >any other ideas? :-) As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: 'meta_mythos' Date: Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:28 pm Subject: Re: RE:[tree] artwork > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm Great work Matthew, impressive. You certanly have my vote ! B. From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 12:53 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork saweeeet! > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Sawyer [mailto:matthewsawyer@c...] > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 4:23 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork > > > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > > Maff > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: atye@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:46 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] tree -MP3 You have my vote for a parallel MP3 tree. It would be easier on some members to burn copies at their leisure. Alex (ATYE) (ps - great job Maff !) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:01 am Subject: Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream Anyone who wants 'Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream - Piece for Solo Flute & Dolphin Dance (DjCH mix).mp3' can have it. Send me a message off list and I'll attach it to the reply. It's 4,775,936 bytes, so make sure your mailbox is big enough. Pleasant listening.... he-he-he-ha-ha-haw-haw-harrrrrrrrrrr! Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31289 Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream Mark Filipak Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:07 am Subject: Dead Can Dance & Tangerine Dream This is a correction to what I wrote earlier. The MP3 file is 4,775,936 bytes long, but after it has been hex encoded as an email attachment it is 6.4 M-bytes. Hope this didn't create any problems for anyone. Ciao -- Mark From: scfeldman@j... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:11 am Subject: Don't Let the Asskissers and Edgar Apologists Dictate the Tree's Contents On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 03:34:11 -0500 Mark Filipak writes: >Adele Outland wrote: > >>I've listened to a few concert recordings and find that >>for the most part there are certain sections I look >>forward to and some I just bide my time through. [...] That's probably because some of it is just plain lackluster and/or boring except to those who would, say delight in listening to a recording of Edgar testing his guitar pickup before rehearsing a song. >>Let's face it, improv is not always masterful [...] Let's be honest here: sometimes it sucks shit -- badly. >>[...] I don't think it is necessary to release an entire >>concert from first belch to last wheeze, just the best >>parts. So true. An excellent case in point is LIVEMILES. I can really only stomach the 9 minute section with the rendition of 'Dolphin Dance,' as I find most of the rest of this disc pretty insipid. >I didn't read past this. My reaction, Adele? You're about >to get it (brace yourself!) > >1 - What is one person's good parts is entirely a matter of >PERSONAL opinion. Yeah, well king Edgar himself thinks so little of some of his own material that he often sees fit to re-work and re-release it any old which way he sees fit. A good case of a track that many a TD fan feels is a travesty is the redone 'Upland' on BEYOND THE STORM. And need I mention THE KEEP? And hey, come on, some stuff just plain sucks. Would you like a complete album's worth of turkeys like 'Optical Race,' 'Lost Tale' and 'Fort Worth Runway One'? Sure, some people like these tracks, but then, some people like spam kebobs and poptarts. >2 - If you want to cut out the boring parts, feel free to >take your CDR, and burn a 'best of' version. >3 - Don't presume to make decisions for anyone but you. But isn't just what you are doing? Notice also that not many people are clamoring for 'live' stuff from 1989 to the present. That's because that is TD's Milli Vanilli phase: when, for the most part, it ain't live, it *is* Memorex! And it's all cover tunes, to boot! Borrrrrrrrring. >Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) Well, I certainly do. Sorry to burst your bubble, but not everything Edgar poops out of his ass is worthy of adoration. Discrimination is a term which draws a lot of flak, and yet its antithesis is indiscriminacy which implies a lack of critical reasoning. -- Steven Feldman , webmaster for the Chang Cheh website at http://changcheh.0catch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Peter Prisekin aka Dusty Chalk Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:56 am Subject: Re: [tadream] DVD Compact Disc Recordable and Rubycon on SACD kassel24@h... wrote: > Also the advent of DVD CDR .... That would be 'DVD-R'. > presumably some SACD can be played on some CD equipment... but this is > dependant on the manufacturer ?? > Right or wrong... Yes, that is correct. You will know if a SACD is of the 'hybrid' variety or not, because it should say it right on the front. The ones that are SACD-only are not allowed to have the CD logo on them! Only the hybrids (has both CD and SACD layers) can be played in regular CD players. Right now, it is most of them. -- I remain, :-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:21 am Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True Maff, I'm a graphic designer, but I have to take my hat off to the prior design (a few days ago) and then the ones in your last e-mail pointing to: http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm My favorite would be he backdrop of Back 2 but reworked as a front design, and then Back 3, and then just change the labeling and have a huge number (in the same font at 80% transparency) signifying which disc it is. This way you can tell at a glance which of these identical-looking discs is which. Or, Back 1 but reworked as a front design, and then Back 3. Had you intended to have each disc look unique? If so, I like the styles of all of your prototypes. Or if a couple of prototypes were chosen, they could each be repeated 4-5 times with different color schemes. I see you also have awesome prototypes with band/tour pictures as the main piece. Many of the bootlegs out there try to draw from the very small pool of band/tour pictures and the fidelity is limited, or they have a couple of smaller pictures in boxes with a lot of Kai's effects. I love your full-cover-size band/tour picture prototype, but the question is, how many of these pictures are available? If it's a lot, I say get as many pictures of the appropriate tours (doesn't have to match the venue) and go for it. I vote for Maff's designs. :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:32 am Subject: RE: [tree] Some General Comments > The tree topic has certainly picked things up. I wonder if Heiko is now > cowering in the corner of a room thinking 'What have I done?'. I did nothing else since I left my office on Friday!! ;-))))) > Artwork: Personally, I like the idea of a common look to the artwork of all > the disks that appear in the series. I'd also prefer individuals to download > the artwork from some suitable site rather than have it sent on CD. Printed > would also be good (but since I have a temperamental printer, I worry for > anyone for whom I am the branch. I don't even have a colour printer or scanner at all, each time someone asks me for a cdr trade I have to pull out the covers and take them to the copy shop for duplicating which is quite expensive. I once asked my wife if it would be ok to buy a PC burner but all she mumbled was 'if you do that I'm going for a divorce' (urgh ;-) It's funny that the one who started the 'tree' discussion seems to be the one who is still living in the 80s (tape deck, receiver, two standalone audio cd burners, cd player) But I already founds some helping hands who seem to be 'pro's' in remastering and I'm sure that I will meet the (high) expectations of those people who already signed up for the tree...if not I guess it's better for me to unsubscribe from the list ~LOL~ Regarding the artwork: I have absolutely no knowledge and talent or even the right equipment to create it myself, but it seems there are already a couple of people who showed interest. But a common look of the artwork is also something which I had in mind. > I do like the idea of having a simple title for the tree and > having each CD numbered (e.g. Tree Title 1 - Live at Dunfermline Carnegie > Hall). yup. I also want to add information about the 'generation' of a recording (master tape, 2nd gen etc.) Maybe we should use subsequent numbers/volumes for the CDR's, just like the 'digital tape tree'. > Media: I have a much larger problem with the issue of media. I am not an > audiophile - I am happy if the media plays and tend not to worry about the > make. My 'originals' (those which will get distributed to the 'branches') will be Audio CDR's, simply because it's the only kind of cdr which I am able to record & copy. At the moment I'm using a cheap brand called 'ProLine', but for the Tree I will use a better brand because these ProLine cdr's are very thin. Heiko P.S.: for those who do not know it, I only have internet & e-mail access during worktime (Monday to Friday), this means that I can't always respond in time :-) From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Breaking up tracks across discs. > Since most TD sets are 24 to 44 minutes long, I'd say that every effort > should be made to put each set or piece of a concert in its entirety on a > disc and then either put encores or other bits as filler. This is exactly what is going to happen. I will record each CDR up to 74.00 minutes, but in case I can't find a suitable track as filler I am not going to split a recording as this would ruin the whole music. Also, I will not use excerpts, the music is much too good to make a fade-out! :-) Heiko From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:07 am Subject: [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork > I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. This is also the number I had in mind. I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31296 Re: [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the Matthew Sawyer Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31300 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Gustavo Jobim Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31301 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork heineu Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31314 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork PENFOLD Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31315 Re: [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the Administrator for kay-net.com Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork From: 'Heiko Heerssen' > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover > artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover > artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible > for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) I'd be happy to handle the first ten covers or as many as are required. Alternatively if you want to keep the style uniform for all 60 discs any designers on the list could send me their graphics and I could use them in the template. That would keep the look consistent across all the discs while giving everyone a chance to contribute. Maff _______________________________________________________ www.mst3uk.com www.maff.da.ru www.tachyon-tv.co.uk www.eclipsecafe.com From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:01 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True From: 'Morgan Feldon' > Had you intended to have each disc look unique? Thanks Morgan. Each cover would have a different graphic image and if possible a different band/concert photo (the photos on the sample covers are from the Royal Albert Hall and one from the Berlin Philharmonics). These are pretty rare - in fact I think I've used just about the only two decent ones available on the net already. Anyone on the list have any TD photos they'd like to contribute? I have a nice EF/CF/PB photo which I'd like to add to the cover spine, so once all the CD's are arranged on the shelf the photo appears. Maff From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:06 am Subject: Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? -- In tadream@y..., Mark Filipak wrote: > Morgan Feldon wrote: > > > > >Mark Filipak said: > > >I am totally against substituting MP3s for red book audio. I ... > Well if some people want to do a parallel tree, of course that's their business, but I want to see the main tree go unhindered and ... I'll kill two birds here, and add a little more from another correspondence: (in response to concerns of people being overwhelmed and releasing projects to the tree one at a time) Well, I guess that depends on how quickly the shows can be 'fed' into the tree. I'm not sure if Heiko has them all ready or not. I agree with you that it could be in stages, but I also think that if people have the wherewithall (is that really a word?) to do it all at once for their leaves or sub branches, there's nothing wrong with being ahead of schedule. We have an overabundance of branches, which is a good thing; this means it should go faster, with fewer people you have to burn for underneath you. If we have a release schedule so that there is some pace to it, people won't get inundated. If a leaf isn't in a big rush, maybe they will save a little postage by waiting for their branch to send all the CDs at once (but I bet most people will want at least the first one asap!) The mp3 tree can go straight down the same distribution tree; might as well. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, this might save everybody postage, if they could get by just listening to the mp3s until the CDs came. Joe Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31317 Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] A Dream Come True mp3 edition? > Well, I guess that depends on how quickly the shows can be 'fed' into > the tree. I'm not sure if Heiko has them all ready or not. Although I have all the concerts I mentioned in my 'provisional list' there's still a lot of work to do because most of them will get remastered/improved by friends of mine. This obviously requires a bit of work and time, but I want this 'tree' to be as perfect as possible right from the beginning, and I'm sure that no-one wants to have a '2nd edition' which sounds much better than the first one. As soon as I have the first 10 discs ready I will let you know, I think Matthew will do the artwork for the first batch and then someone else is responsible for creating the cover. > If we have a release schedule so that there is some pace to it, > people won't get inundated. At the moment I can't come up with a release date, sorry. My best guess would be 2-3 weeks from now. Heiko From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:44 pm Subject: Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork I still think it would be better if we had double volumes, I mean, each box with two CDs, since I believe most concerts will be 2 CDs long. We would then have 1 box and 1 artwork for each concert and would save space on people's shelves... (at least I have almost ran totally out of space for cds now...) I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better to me if we mixed the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. The photo on the spine is a nice idea, Maff! >> I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. > > This is also the number I had in mind. > > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) > > Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31301 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork heineu Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31314 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork PENFOLD Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: 'heineu' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:55 am Subject: Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Hi Gustavo, I agree with you, 2CDR Box with one concert and one artwork. Regards heiko - Mr. Optical www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-to-ashra.de --- In tadream@y..., Gustavo Jobim wrote: > I still think it would be better if we had double volumes, I mean, each box > with two CDs, since I believe most concerts will be 2 CDs long. We would > then have 1 box and 1 artwork for each concert and would save space on > people's shelves... (at least I have almost ran totally out of space for cds > now...) > > I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better to me if we mixed > the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. > > The photo on the spine is a nice idea, Maff! > > >> I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. > > > > This is also the number I had in mind. > > > > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) > > > > Heiko From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:26 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork > We would then have 1 box and 1 artwork for each concert and would save space on > people's shelves... that's a good idea, it also reduces the cost of buying CD cases, printing out the cover artwork etc. Contrary to what I said before I think the first batch will consist of 15-20 CDRs, and although in most cases I don't want to record more than 74 minutes of music onto each CDR there sometimes may be an exception to the rule. Heiko Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31322 Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Joe Shoults Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Éric Rochon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 1:33 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: RE:[tree] artwork Very nice cover ! > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art > looks. > > > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > Great work Matthew, impressive. > > You certanly have my vote ! > > B. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'rtol008' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:19 pm Subject: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Hi all! There has been some discussion about the format, which to use. Some people want to have audio and some people want to have mp3. Audio is fine for me but there is also other alternatives available to consider. Why not use SHN which is compressed wav-file. + It is lossless. + It can be extracted back to wav to make audio CDRs. + It consumes little bit less space than wav-files. Size is about 60% (this my experience) from the original wav-file. + Files can be copied to CDR as data so it is easy to verify that there is no errors -> there is a checksum file generated. + There is a plugin for Winamp available. + And also the last leaf who gets copy of a copy of a copy ... gets as originals as the first who in the top of the tree. - if you don't have a computer and cannot create audio-CDs, you can't play these in your CD plyer :( Check this if you want to know more about SHN: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html regards, timo Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31305 Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! airsculpture Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31306 Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! atye@a... Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'airsculpture' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! First up, please count me in! I don't mind being a leaf or a branch, I have a good burner (though I don't have a color printer). Given how lazy I am, and the shortage of leaves in some prior trees, maybe a leaf would be better... I was going to make a suggestion that WAVs are used when passing from branch to branch, and to any leaves that want them. Copying audio data from CD to CD isn't entirely lossless (due to error correction & jitter), and it seems worth the extra effort to keep all of the data 'pure' if possible. then: --- In tadream@y..., 'rtol008' wrote: > Audio is fine for me but there is also other alternatives available > to consider. Why not use SHN which is compressed wav-file. If this format is free, really lossless and available to everyone who cares (mac users, etc) then it might be an even better idea. I've got a couple of very good 1st gen recordings (or is that 0th gen) from the 86 tour, which have never been traded. I really must make CD copies of those, and add some input to the project. See above re: laziness though. jc From: atye@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! An SHN tree sounds good to me..... I am sure that no one wants to receive a poorer copy of the music just by participating in an MP3 tree. That was suggested as an easy alternative for file transfer (for some) and not a punishment in sound quality. SHN, high bit-rate MP3's or some other method is fine as long as the files come from an original CD and are good quality. my 2 cent's worth..... ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:13 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Don't Let the Asskissers and Edgar Apologists Dicta te the Tree's Contents Dude, what you got against poptarts and spam kebobs? sheesh, lighten up for Pete's sake. > -----Original Message----- > From: scfeldman@j... [mailto:scfeldman@j...] > And hey, come on, some stuff just plain sucks. Would > you like a complete album's worth of turkeys like 'Optical > Race,' 'Lost Tale' and 'Fort Worth Runway One'? Sure, some > people like these tracks, but then, some people like spam > kebobs and poptarts. From: 'j.gordon' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 4:02 pm Subject: [tree] Names and such hey, all... i thought i'd throw a word or too in here... i see no reason why the name of the tree couldn't be a german word or words... Raetikon is a great name and all the original names for Antarkis are german... it works so long as every digs it... i personally like the idea of dropping dream from the name... it limits the scope and concept of the name, i think... a very cool german word for a name would be Dämmerung (which loosely translates as twilight, but of either morning or eve and can be used in a very figurative way as to mean what ever one might like to think) anyway, i'd love to throw my hat in the ring for doing some graphics, but am not sure who to cooridnate with, or if there is a queue to get behind... =) j __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: quarlie@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Don't Write a Book in the Subject Line; That's What the Message Body Is For In a message dated 1/14/02 12:13:47 AM, scfeldman@j... writes: >And hey, come on, some stuff just plain sucks. Would >you like a complete album's worth of turkeys like 'Optical >Race,' 'Lost Tale' and 'Fort Worth Runway One'? Sure, some >people like these tracks, but then, some people like spam >kebobs and poptarts. Hey now--quality is subjective. I like 'Fort Worth Runway One'; you appear to be saying there's something wrong with my taste in music. What gives you the authority to determine that? You may have different tastes, but that doesn't mean that one of us is wrong and the other is right. --Daniel NP: Jonn Serrie - Planetary Chronicles, Volume 1 From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs - one idea When they get the total tally of people involved and where they are from, it will be much easier to group them to locale, so no one has a 'long distance' trade going. Mike At 09:01 PM 01/11/2002 -0200, you wrote: >As far as I remember there was a list of the branches available... the >main point was that the cost would be passed in form of the person making >copies for someone else. the person who received a copy would pay by >sending another copy for someone else. I think this is a good idea; I'm >not very comfortable with the idea of sending money to another country. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31429 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis Nigbur Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:49 pm Subject: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent quality audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is enough to justify a subtree. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31316 Re: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Administrator for kay-net.com Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31319 Re: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Joe Shoults Mon 1/14/2002 4 KB 31328 Re: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Chris Owen Mon 1/14/2002 5 KB 31333 What is B&P? Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: scfeldman@j... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:50 pm Subject: Subjectivity (was Don't Write a Book in the Subject Line) On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:21:56 EST quarlie@a... writes: >Hey now--quality is subjective. True, and yet it is also possible to form opinions by way of taking note of consensus and critical feedback. >I like 'Fort Worth Runway One'; you appear to be saying >there's something wrong with my taste in music. Yeah, sort of. Ever hear of 'Mods against Rockers' or 'Rock Rules, Disco Sucks' or 'Punk versus Metal'? It is an aesthetic stance based on strident subjective grandstanding, but hey, it works for me. ;) >What gives you the authority to determine that? Having nearly everything TD has issued commercially (barring superfluous compilations) and having played this stuff 'till I'm blue in the face has made me think that I might have a clue as to what constitutes great TD and what constitutes lesser TD. For example, I think it's safe to say that RUBYCON is a better album than TRANSSIBERIA is. >You may have different tastes, but that doesn't mean that >one of us is wrong and the other is right. Hey, I'm right as far as I'm concerned, and you're right as far as you're concerned. No biggie. >--Daniel >NP: Jonn Serrie - Planetary Chronicles, Volume 1 Hey, well at least we agree on the above being a great album. :) Stephie-mouse http://molasar.tripod.com/titmouse.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31336 Re: Subjectivity (was Don't Write a Book in the S moxica@m... Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:56 pm Subject: [tree] A Dream Come True One more comment on A Dream Come True. I'm organizing a website that will chronicle which bootlegs are available for which concerts and which are the most complete and best quality for each show. A big untertaking yes, but worth it. On the tray card (back) of the Digital Trees, I think it would be nice if a short list of all the major recordings of that concert were listed. For instance, for Royal Albert Hall 1975, the tray card could say 'This replaces: Coefficient of Aural Expansion Ruby in the Sky Phaedream Royal Dreams' -Morgan From: PENFOLD Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 5:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork At 02.01.14-09:44, Gustavo Jobim wrote: >I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better to me if we >mixed the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. I agree here as well.....let's spread the fun and showcasing of talent around! Pete Isaacson aka °º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸DJ DreamHead,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤ mailto:penfold@a... Yahoo Chat: penfold235 AIM: PENFOLD235 1984, Saw 'The Keep' LP at Tower Records, actually held it, didn't have the $$.....Damn!!!!! 'Absence of the KEEP LP is not evidence of its non-existence.' - Steven Feldman From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork Actually I would not have a problem doing this myself either. I just want the best Audio possible on those CD's. Covers are nice, SOUND is better. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Heiko Heerssen' To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:07 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork > > > > I am aware we are talking about 45 to 60 cdr's for this project. > > This is also the number I had in mind. > > I have a *suggestion* about who is going to create the cover artwork for the Tree: we choose maybe 4 or 5 people from the > mailing list, and each of them can create up to 10 complete cover artworks (for example, Maff is responsible for creating the > cover artwork of Volume 1-10, then someone else is responsible for Volume 11-20, etc. etc.) > > Heiko > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! I read what you are saying but why lower quality for a few extra CDr's? Go with the highest possible, make your own MP3's afterward. I would like Master CDr's done at the highest possible quality. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Morgan Feldon' To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:49 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent quality > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is enough to justify > a subtree. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Rolf Elfström Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [tree] mp3 edition? Isn't it possible to put up a ftp-site (password protected) with the mp3s for those of us on the list that can't afford (or for any other reason can't take part in) the tree but still would like to get hold of the music and the artworks (as jpg's or another format) ??? Having high-speed access to the net 24-7 and enough bad hearing to make 192 mp3s 'good enough' for me would make this an ideal way to get the music. =) And once the songs are in the ftp it wouldn't distract any efforts from the original tree, it's just another way to get the songs for those of us who would settle with mp3s. Getting the mp3s in a tree-distribution and still having to burn/post discs doesn't really work for me... but I would hate to miss out on this. Anybody on the list with access to enough ftp-space?? Rolf From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:27 am Subject: new artwork test Hello everyone, I've tried a new idea for cover style and artwork; this one is very colorful; I could say, quite psychedelic-esque. I put the files in our tadream/files folder. they're called tree_test2_front and back.jpg. From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:19 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! You know, we can get bogged down with all this - and I know it's just talk and only talk at this point - but the main thing is just to get the damn disks out. People are not going to want to mess with all this crap and the more complicated we make it the bloodier it will get. The bottom line is that all this detail is between you and your branchline. If you want SHN format, find a branch that wants to distribute in that format. I will be charting out the branches, and I have no problem making one or two legs of the branch as shn or whatever, but i'm not going to make a branch for every Tom, Dick and Harry format out there. We will keep it simple: make the whole damn thing audio CDs (redbook) and piggyback an mp3 set on top of that, for those that want it (I do). If you want to mess with the SHN format, let me know via e-mail and I will add that to your notes field in the participant's table at http://www.tadream.net/tree Thank, Joe P.A. and this is a reminder: If you have a beef with someone else on the list, you take it up with them personally, offlist. Do not use this mailing list as a way to bait them into guilty action or reconciliation; i.e., for a past trade gone awry. This list is not your conflict resolution resource. Thank you. > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:50 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > > > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious > reworking to do > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth > of material > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of > excellent quality > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is > enough to justify > a subtree. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:12 pm Subject: Homepage update !!! Hi, update : www.opticaldream.de (14-Jan-2001) NEW: - Mars Polaris Press Information Folder - Pictures for all loser`s of the auction ;-) - The Calling Promo Interview CD with short Franke track - 5 DJ Promo Vinyls of the first 5 Ground Liftaz Releases and the NEW Release - The Ones Promo Single - Schmoelling Track on : Music for the 3rd Millennium Vol. 3 - many new CD`s and Vinyls ... Jump to: www.opticaldream.de Regards heiko - Mr. Optical www.opticaldream.de www.tribute-.to-ashra.de http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?84845C1006059376 handy4you.de Last Minute in die Sonne mit travelchannel.de - http://www.zanox-affiliate.de/bin/z_ct_ppc.dll?88332C2036242168 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:46 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] costs I would hope that this would all be broken down into small chunks. It seems ludicrous to make it one large mess. If, say three discs were treed at a time, it would all be much more manageable. I think this is the intention anyway. This is how I've done it on other lists. Mike At 12:18 AM 01/12/2002 -0200, you wrote: >hmm. thinking over and discussing i came to the conclusion that that thing >i was saying, about getting the cds for free and then sending for free >(instead of paying in one way or another for them), doesnt work in this >tree's case; it seems it's clocking at 30-60 cds... this would work nicely >if we were talking about 1, 2 or even 3 cds, but the work of burning and >packing and posting such a big amount of cds is just too much to fit this >system. >Gustavo Jobim >gustavojobim@n... > > >----------------------------------------------------_- >To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >----------------------------------------------------_- >Want to discuss a specific Album, concert or bootleg? Go to >http://www.tadream.net under 'Music Reviews' for instructions! > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:30 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: No. of CDR's & who is going to do the artwork i see nothing wrong with a pool of covers from which you can choose. The artwork will be available for download anyway, so you can pick the version you want and print it. Matt has the best idea with the spine image; maybe gustavo or others will want to do the same thing (hope so). I also like the idea of the hidden images. Let's do that. > -----Original Message----- > From: PENFOLD [mailto:penfold@a...] > At 02.01.14-09:44, Gustavo Jobim wrote: > >I also like the idea of 4 or 5 people, but it seems better > to me if we > >mixed the artwork instead of each people doing 1-10, 11-20 etc. > > I agree here as well.....let's spread the fun and > showcasing of > talent around! > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:35 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] mp3 edition? I'm adding any notes such a s 'mp3=yes' or 'SHN preferred' to the notes on the participants roster page. If you have anything you want me to add next to your name, let me know off list. If I find time, I may convert it to a database so it is a little more self-serve flavored. The audio CD project will go through as planned, but if you want to conduct mp3 or shn trades on the side, at least you'll be able to find someone with whom to trade. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Rolf Elfström [mailto:rcade@r...] > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:13 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] Re: [tree] mp3 edition? > > > Isn't it possible to put up a ftp-site (password protected) > with the mp3s for those of us on the list that can't afford > (or for any other reason c From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:49 pm Subject: Re: Not doing complete concerts... Not naming names, but some have expressed disinterest in getting complete concerts on the new Digital Tree. Folks, there have been compilation after compilation of concert bits: Sea of Dreams (6 CDs) Real Dream Encores (3 CDs) Electronic History (6 CDs) Parallel Dreams (12 CDs) Parallel Dreams II (18 CDs) Eye-Box (6 CDs) The bottom line is, better recordings of the bootlegs we already have have surfaced in the last 2-3 years and the time has come to re-release them in the much better quality. If you have Patrolling Space Borders, Staatgrenze West, Coefficient of Aural Expansion/Phaedream/Ruby in the Sky, Danger Live, Acoustic LSD, Fractal Realities, Ratikon, the earlier 1983 Warsaw bootleg, etc. and some of the Digital Tape Tree discs put out just a few years ago, you hold a fossil in your hands. Better, lower generation recordings of concerts have been seeping out of the woodwork in the past few years and many of those recordings are being made available to the public. I see this as an incredible gift and feel fortunate to be able to benefit. If some folks aren't interested, then don't sign up for the tree, but please don't try to sabotage it for the rest of us. If you didn't get involved in the 51 CDs worth of bootleg compilations listed above, then that was your choice. These were and still are still available at very reasonable trade rates (usually media and post). Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing 2 CDRs per concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31327 Re: Not doing complete concerts... Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB 31329 Tape trees Matthew Stringer Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31332 Re: Tape trees Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31334 Re: Tape trees Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 7:54 pm Subject: I'm agreeing with you! It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to be useful. -Morgan >Admin for kay-net.com said: >I read what you are saying but why lower quality for a few extra CDr's? Go >with the highest possible, make your own MP3's afterward. I would like >Master CDr's done at the highest possible quality. >From: 'Morgan Feldon' >To: >Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:49 AM >Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > > > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do > > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material > > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent >quality > > audio on a single CDR. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31331 [tree] Compression ratios airsculpture Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:00 pm Subject: [tree] Replying to myself! Sorry, I meant that there should be a main Audio CD tree regardless, and then mp3 as a sub-tree. I like Joe's idea. Everyone just list what you want, mp3, SHN, Audio CD, and then if enough people are willing to be mp3 and SHN branches, then presto. -Morgan >I'm agreeing with you! > >It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to >be useful. > >-Morgan From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Not doing complete concerts... At 01:49 PM 01/14/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing 2 CDRs per >concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, >wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. I used to be of the mind that wasted space was, um, wasted space and tried to find filler to round out the disc, but in the last few years I've changed my mind about this. Mainly because as these discs grow in age or get traded around, it's possible that the filler becomes mis-lableled and suddenly you get questions about what the filler actually is. Just mho, but I would prefer no filler and blank space on the disc, but it isn't a neccessity. Mike From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:24 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! Good, sensible words Joe. Like you say, the more complicated this thing becomes, the more chance there will be of disagreements and arguments between branches and leaves about audio formats, various brands and running times of CDRs, the fact that certain CD cases open to a greater angle than others, etc, etc. In order for this entire thing to be as big a success as we all hope it will be, and to minimise the number of grey areas within structure of the tree regarding media, we need to make everything crytal clear from the outset, something to which Joe has contributed. - Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Shoults To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > You know, we can get bogged down with all this - and I know it's just talk > and only talk at this point - but the main thing is just to get the damn > disks out. People are not going to want to mess with all this crap and the > more complicated we make it the bloodier it will get. > > The bottom line is that all this detail is between you and your branchline. > If you want SHN format, find a branch that wants to distribute in that > format. I will be charting out the branches, and I have no problem making > one or two legs of the branch as shn or whatever, but i'm not going to make > a branch for every Tom, Dick and Harry format out there. > > We will keep it simple: make the whole damn thing audio CDs (redbook) and > piggyback an mp3 set on top of that, for those that want it (I do). > > If you want to mess with the SHN format, let me know via e-mail and I will > add that to your notes field in the participant's table at > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Thank, > Joe > > P.A. and this is a reminder: If you have a beef with someone else on the > list, you take it up with them personally, offlist. Do not use this mailing > list as a way to bait them into guilty action or reconciliation; i.e., for a > past trade gone awry. This list is not your conflict resolution resource. > Thank you. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 12:50 PM > > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > > > > > > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. > > > > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious > > reworking to do > > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth > > of material > > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. > > > > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of > > excellent quality > > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is > > enough to justify > > a subtree. > > > > -Morgan > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31333 What is B&P? Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'Matthew Stringer' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:26 pm Subject: Tape trees Is it just me or are Tape Trees too much hassle? I work long hours and rarely get a lunch so queuing in those pre-historic things we Brits call Post Offices just to post some blank CDR's which have almost zero monetary value is impractical. Considering that the quality of these recordings are not as good as an original album you are not going to affect the quality by converting them to MP3 or WMA and store them on an FTP server. I know that the cost of hosted space can be expensive but we don't need to have everything hosted on one server we could simply have a portal site linking to tracks hosted on servers around the world. I am also sure that there are plenty of TD fans out there with access to FTP space. Sorry if there are people who like the tape tree format, I personally think it's a little dated and think we should try something a bit more modern. I also have a 30 Gigs worth of space which you could squeeze about 500 hours of music on, I can't be the only one to have this. What do you think? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31332 Re: Tape trees Rolf Elfström Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB 31334 Re: Tape trees Michael Fox Mon 1/14/2002 3 KB From: kassel24@h... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:28 pm Subject: DIGITAL TREE and ARTWORK Co-Odinator. First and foremost the Digital Tape Tree is a excellent Idea..... The Problem with all of this ....its getting out of hand... too many inputs and its bogging the list down. What we need is decisive decisions and ONE co-ordinator that everyone will abide by. As the IDEA for the DIGITAL TAPE TREE ORIGINATED with Heiko Heersson he should have the Final say. Let him designate the Artwork person, and the MP3 person etc..... I am sure he will make the right choice !? Q. What do you think Morgan ? Ray From: 'airsculpture' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:38 pm Subject: [tree] Compression ratios --- In tadream@y..., Morgan Feldon wrote: > SHN doesn't save enough to be useful. If it /can/ do 60%, 120 mins * 0.6 is 72 minutes. Sounds very useful, enough to fit any concert (apart from the last SBE?) onto a single CDR with no breaks [data discs will be a bit shorter, but then most concerts are quite a bit short of 120mins too]. Still, if the concensus is lossless is too much effort, I'm not going to lose sleep over using audio CDs. jc From: Rolf Elfström Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape trees >I work long hours and rarely get a lunch so queuing in those >pre-historic things we Brits call Post Offices just to post some blank >CDR's which have almost zero monetary value is impractical. > >I know that the cost of hosted space can be expensive but we don't need >to have everything hosted on one server we could simply have a portal >site linking to tracks hosted on servers around the world. > >I also have a 30 Gigs worth of space which you could squeeze about 500 >hours of music on, I can't be the only one to have this. > >What do you think? I second that, since for me (being in a wheelchair) it's a big project even getting to the postoffice, and just the postage for sending the blanks is a major cut in my limited financing. However, I have cable- access to the net 24 hour a day for free so if this is at all possible I'm a happy guy. Matthew, please, if you would put my email in your address book and let me know if this ever happens I would be forever grateful. I'm just sorry I can't provide any ftp-space myself. Rolf From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 8:46 pm Subject: What is B&P? Someone on another list just posted this link to an excellent site about this. Although this is pointed towards Grateful Dead trees, I think the info is really good and presents the subject very well for anyone new to this or wondering some 'ground rules'. Note: I couldn't get this page to open properly using Netscape, but it might just be me. Worked fine with IE. http://www.mcnichol.com/bnp/ Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Tape trees At 08:26 PM 01/14/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Is it just me or are Tape Trees too much hassle? Matthew, I hear you. Unfortunately, many probably do not have access to high speed connections and FTPing would prevent them from having access to the tree--and can we please call this a CDR tree?? Ain't no tape involved in the end and seems to cause some confusion re: the international members of this list. I just want us all to be talking off the same page on this. Ray--I think we are getting things sussed and while there is a lot of traffic right now about the nuances, it seems we are mostly in agreement about what we are shooting for. It seems that some here are knew to this whole concept (forgive me if I am wrong) but I have done a lot of trading via this mode and once it is all set up, I think you'll find things will run smoothly and anyone who participates will become the recipient of some magical music. After all, that is what this is all about, is it not? I realize I have been a major contributor to 'outside' sources about this subject, but believe me folks, these people have been doing this for a long time and have it down to a fine art. Why not adapt some of what they use as they have 'been there, done that' and have worked most of the kinks out of the process? No need to reinvent the wheel. One final thought: If done in smaller segments, one could opt out of a certain part of things if they didn't want to participate/have no time/etc. Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 3:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True At 08:17 PM 01/11/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Really, if I were a potential branch and found out that I can't at least >recoup my costs (the tree mantras all say 'not for profit, but costs are >covered'), then I'll just get these CDRs from Hieko or Duncan directly. Let me see if I can clarify things some here--at least how I've done things before. Each Branch will have, say, five leaves. Any more and it gets dicey and causes problems, and I don't think we'll have any trouble with not having enough people who can branch. The leaves of each branch contact the branch and set up a one-for one trade--OR--set up B&P. This is Blanks and Return postage. The person doing the B&P sends the appropriate amount of blanks, a return mailer with postage (NOT metered!!!!--stamps or $$ ONLY!). The branch only has to copy the discs, put them in the mailer and send them back. Yes, the branch is out the time it takes to burn, but I'd imagine most will find something to trade for and part of the spirit of this is to spread the music around. If someone doesn't have the capacity to burn, they probably will in the future and will be more inclined to help someone else who is burnerless. As I suggested before, if we can find web space to put up the artwork, then each will be responsible for getting their own art printed, thus solving the problem of printing up artwork too (although I've done it many times). Just my two cents but hope that helps. Mike From: Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 6:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Subjectivity (was Don't Write a Book in the Subject Line) >From: scfeldman@j... >>NP: Jonn Serrie - Planetary Chronicles, Volume 1 > > Hey, well at least we agree on the above being a >great album. :) I saw Serrie playing Christmas songs in a local mall last month. -jim From: 'Chris Owen' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:32 am Subject: Tree - entire recordings I have to agree with most of what you said Morgan, with the exception of perhaps your last statement. You are perfectly correct in that most of TD's concerts from, say, 1974 to 1980 were around the 90 minute mark maybe 10-15 minutes more, depending on the mood they were in on the night and what time the bar closed. As you will be aware, as they moved through the 80s, they tended to edge towards the 2 hour mark (a 90 minute set and a few encores was typical of the 81, 82, 86 and 90 UK tours, and the 86, 88 and 92 US tours). Ninety minute cassette tapes were ideal for recording and storing these mid 70s shows, but in terms of transfering them to the 74 (or 80 of course) minute CDR, you are faced with a problem. I think it's safe to say that these shows were originally recorded on cassette at the venue (someone please educate me if this is incorrect in any way), and so, unless TD were accommodating enough to provide a gap in their set as you were coming to the end of side A of your cassette, a gap will already exist in the original recording as the cassette was physically turned over. In my mind, I think it's paramount that in those instances where a whole concert is held on tape, that it shoud be transferred onto 2 CDRs in order to preserve the show in its entirety. Due to the largely improvised nature of the music, the TD shows from the mid 70s were like a story in musical terms, and to have it interrupted ruins the impetus of the recording. I believe that removing 20-30 minutes from an archive recording of a show simply because there isn't enough room to fit it onto a single CDR is unforgivable and should be avoided at all costs. In my opinion, if it takes 2 CDRs to archive a whole show, then 2 CDRs it should be. Even if Disc One contains 60 minutes, and Disc Two 35 minutes, the wasted space on each disc is fine with me, as long as the whole show is present, however imbalanced the running times of the discs. On a related topic, with the advent of software like Wavelab for home PCs, I pray that every effort will be made to provide the continuity in the music which I mentioned before. For example - if an archive tape contains a 25 minute live track, 15 minutes of which is unfortunately on one side of the tape, and 10 minuted on the other, can I propose that the end of one be digitally mixed/faded into the start of the other, with the entire 25 minute track thus being preserved in its entirety on CDR with the rest of the show? I had this obstacle to climb when I was transferring a recording of Lonodon1981 from tape to CDR last year. Mojave Plan was cut in two. Aftering carefully mixing the two halves with the aforementioned Wavelab 3.0, I played the finished piece to a TD die-hard. I told him there had been a gap somewhere in the track, yet he couldn't spot where. It's such a simple process, it would be a crime not to utilise modern software in this manner if it means improving the presentation of the music. What I'm saying is that, not only is this a great opportunity for us to digitally archive all this wonderful, unreleased TD live material we all love, but also a perfect chance for us to repair any 'broken' recordings. TD's live music of the 70s and 80s (particularly the 70s) builds such a momentum over an extended period of time, and when it's interrupted the momentum is often undeniably lost, spoiling your listening pleasure. To this end, I am perfectly willing to offer up my own services if the workload should become too much for those, like Heiko, who are already so busy with this exciting project. - Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Morgan Feldon To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: [tadream] Re: Not doing complete concerts... > Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing 2 CDRs per > concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, > wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. > > -Morgan > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31361 Tree - entire recordings Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:44 pm Subject: Some clarifications about this tree. Now that enough details have solidified, we can make the following clarifications about this tree. These are pretty much set in stone and will hopefully answer a lot of 'burning' questions ;-) CONTENT: These will be complete concerts, not compilations or with parts edited out/added in. They will be 'clean' concert material - there will not be 'filler' on these disks, and this will avoid future confusion. FORMAT: They will be in Redbook CD audio format. any other formats, you're on your own. We can prearrange the branches for downlines that are shn or mp3-friendly. OPT-IN DEADLINE: January 31. FIRST DISTRIBUTION TARGET DATE FROM HEIKO: first week in February CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS: this is between you and your branchline, but we will have a complete list of recommended (not mandated) media types/brands. QUANTITY: There will be an initial run of approx. 20 for the first batch. They will all be sent at once, not in small disbursements. TREE STRUCTURE: narrow, meaning as few burns per person as possible. this will facilitate fast distribution. PARTICIPATION LIST: maintained at http://www.tadream.net/tree. After Jan 31, we will post a tree structure. We will also use this page to keep track of who all has received their disks. This will be all in the open, so that if a branch is having any difficulty, it can be addressed. (any difficulties should be minimized with the narrow structure) ARTWORK: This is an issue completely separate from the CDs. There may be multiple versions, but all will be available for download. Hell, you can even e-mail the URL to Kinkos and they will color print it for you and have it waiting for you to pick up. Unless you live in a 3rd world country, this will not be an issue for you. --------------------------------------- Notice that the question of mp3, shn or artwork are to be purposefully and deliberately regarded as separate, secondary issues. Trying to worry about these issues as 'attachments' to the audio CD process is only going to slow it down. What's important is the audio CDs, then the rest can follow. Thanks to all for the enthusiastic response! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31342 Re: [Tree] Some clarifications about this tree. Deb H-J Mon 1/14/2002 2 KB From: 'Alexander Bjelke' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:25 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] Name and artwork Another suggestion: TraumKlang From: Joe Shoults Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:51 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Fox [mailto:mfox@i...] > blanks, a return mailer with postage (NOT metered!!!!--stamps > or $$ ONLY!). thanks for all the references, Michael. I've added them to the tree info page. why no metered postage? I take my packages to the post office, where they weigh each of them and slap a metered sticky thingy on them, and I just pay once. what's wrong with that? maybe there's something I'm not aware of. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31369 Re: [tree] A Dream Come True Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Some clarifications about this tree. Good work Joe ! Sounds like a excellent start. I even think that the leaves should be able to do their own covers. I see no reason other than needing a Ink Jet to make them. If not I am sure the branches can do. This is turning out to be a great year so far. I was greatly disappointed with the cancel of the TD Concert in the States. At least now I will have something I never heard before to play. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 1:44 PM Subject: [tadream] Some clarifications about this tree. > Now that enough details have solidified, we can make the following > clarifications about this tree. These are pretty much set in stone and will > hopefully answer a lot of 'burning' questions ;-) > > CONTENT: > These will be complete concerts, not compilations or with parts edited > out/added in. They will be 'clean' concert material - there will not be > 'filler' on these disks, and this will avoid future confusion. > > FORMAT: > They will be in Redbook CD audio format. any other formats, you're on your > own. We can prearrange the branches for downlines that are shn or > mp3-friendly. > > OPT-IN DEADLINE: > January 31. > > FIRST DISTRIBUTION TARGET DATE FROM HEIKO: > first week in February > > CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS: > this is between you and your branchline, but we will have a complete list of > recommended (not mandated) media types/brands. > > QUANTITY: > There will be an initial run of approx. 20 for the first batch. They will > all be sent at once, not in small disbursements. > > TREE STRUCTURE: > narrow, meaning as few burns per person as possible. this will facilitate > fast distribution. > > PARTICIPATION LIST: > maintained at http://www.tadream.net/tree. After Jan 31, we will post a > tree structure. We will also use this page to keep track of who all has > received their disks. This will be all in the open, so that if a branch is > having any difficulty, it can be addressed. (any difficulties should be > minimized with the narrow structure) > > ARTWORK: > This is an issue completely separate from the CDs. There may be multiple > versions, but all will be available for download. Hell, you can even e-mail > the URL to Kinkos and they will color print it for you and have it waiting > for you to pick up. Unless you live in a 3rd world country, this will not > be an issue for you. > > --------------------------------------- > Notice that the question of mp3, shn or artwork are to be purposefully and > deliberately regarded as separate, secondary issues. Trying to worry about > these issues as 'attachments' to the audio CD process is only going to slow > it down. What's important is the audio CDs, then the rest can follow. > > Thanks to all for the enthusiastic response! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Deb H-J Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:12 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [Tree] Some clarifications about this tree. Joe: Several e-mail transmittals from my yahoo account have been eaten by the internet void, so I'm assuming you haven't gotten this information yet. I live in East Tennessee, roughly 200 miles north of Atlanta, and I am interested in becoming a branch. I have a pretty good CD-burner and can support about five leaves. Adios, Deb H-J dhj4@y... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: tadream@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:15 pm Subject: New poll for tadream Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the tadream group: Enter your vote for the 'name' of this first tree effort of 2002. We have gathered these suggestions from your posts on the list. All further details of this tree are here< /a>. o Diamond Dreams o The Road Less Travelled o Rare Visions o (The) Tangerine Tree o A Tree of Dreams o Marmalade skies o A dream come true o Sharing the Dream o Seeding the Dream o Tangerine Dream Seeds o Mysterious Strands of Dreams o One World Dream o World of Dreams o Dreams of the World o World Dreaming o Earth Dreams o Age of Dreams o Epoch of Dreams o Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies o tangerine traum o TraumEpoche o TraumKatalysator o Epoche von Träumen o mandarine baum o Traumstücke To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:35 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork Fabulous! Paul ---------- >De : 'Matthew Sawyer' >À : >Objet : Re: [tadream] RE:[tree] artwork >Date : Dim 13 jan 2002 22:22 > > > I've been playing around with some other possible cover art looks. > > http://www.maff.da.ru/tdcov2.htm > > > Maff From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:43 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream what is the login for this? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:15 PM Subject: [tadream] New poll for tadream > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > tadream group: > > Enter your vote for the 'name' of > this > first tree effort of 2002. We have > gathered these suggestions from your > posts on the list. All further details > of this tree are href='http://www.tadream.net/tree'>here< > /a>. > > o Diamond Dreams > o The Road Less Travelled > o Rare Visions > o (The) Tangerine Tree > o A Tree of Dreams > o Marmalade skies > o A dream come true > o Sharing the Dream > o Seeding the Dream > o Tangerine Dream Seeds > o Mysterious Strands of Dreams > o One World Dream > o World of Dreams > o Dreams of the World > o World Dreaming > o Earth Dreams > o Age of Dreams > o Epoch of Dreams > o Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies > o tangerine traum > o TraumEpoche > o TraumKatalysator > o Epoche von Träumen > o mandarine baum > o Traumstücke > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: atye@a... Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:56 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream use your personal Yahoo ID to login ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Morgan Feldon Date: Mon Jan 14, 2002 11:59 pm Subject: [tree] FTP instead of tree? >Matthew Stringer said: >Is it just me or are Tape Trees too much hassle? > >I work long hours and rarely get a lunch so queuing in those >pre-historic things we Brits call Post Offices just to post some blank >CDR's which have almost zero monetary value is impractical. I'm not sure about Europe, but in the USA, it is entirely possible to mail blank CDs without leaving your house. That said, I still believe that the media or what is necessary to trade should be decided by the branches, under guidance from Hieko. In my opinion, trades to get copies of the Tape Tree must NOT require music in return and must NOT require more than $2 per CD. If you would rather deal with the tree from home, ask whichever branch you get assigned to if you can just mail them a few bucks. Everybody's happy (cept Edgar) and you just wait a few weeks and get your CDs in return. >Considering that the quality of these recordings are not as good as an >original album you are not going to affect the quality by converting >them to MP3 or WMA and store them on an FTP server. > >I know that the cost of hosted space can be expensive but we don't need >to have everything hosted on one server we could simply have a portal >site linking to tracks hosted on servers around the world. Those of us who are happy with mp3 and have the necessary bandwidth already operate FTP sites. I won't name any names but there has been at least one FTP operating continuously with this type of music for the past 2 1/2 years. I still say bring on the tree! If someone has an FTP, e-mail Matt about it, he's really interested! :) >I am also sure that there are plenty of TD fans out there with access to >FTP space. In this case, I want the integrity of the recordings, the CDs, and the artwork. As much of an mp3 guy as I am (my entire collection is in mp3 form), I am really excited to get this in Audio CD form and have it on my shelf. That's why I am voting for the name 'A Dream Come True.' >Sorry if there are people who like the tape tree format, I personally >think it's a little dated and think we should try something a bit more >modern. Again, let's not try to sabotage the digital tree please! If you want to offer up an FTP, go for it, but it should operate independantly of the digital tree. You want to offer up an FTP? Great! Sign up as a leaf of the digital tree and then put the files up. That's what others of us have done. -Morgan P.S. I don't currently operate a site, so please don't e-mail me re: access. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31350 Re: [tree] FTP instead of tree? Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:06 am Subject: [tree] Too many inputs? >Ray said: >First and foremost the Digital Tape Tree is a excellent Idea..... >The Problem with all of this ....its getting out of hand... too many inputs >and its bogging the list down. >What we need is decisive decisions and ONE co-ordinator that everyone will >abide by. Hieko asked for input. >As the IDEA for the DIGITAL TAPE TREE ORIGINATED with Heiko Heersson he >should have the Final say. And he does. All the opinions being expressed by myself and others are, no doubt, being looked at by Hieko and Joe and evaluated. Hieko might decide to ignore all of it and do something else. >Let him designate the Artwork person, and the MP3 person etc..... I am sure >he will make the right choice !? Hieko wants to hear these inputs I think, so he has some idea of what will 'fly' on the TD list. If Hieko came in and started telling us exactly how it will be done and what to do without offering any chance for us to provide input, we'd have an equal number of people screaming that he's got a big ego, etc. I think Hieko is making the right choice by opening the floor to opinions while he has the discs prepared and I'm sure he will take from it what he thinks is right. In a way, it's a popularity contest, as Hieko will see from both private e-mails and postings here and find a consensus. And I agree with Joe. If people want to set up a fringe operation with special media (DVD-R, etc.), that's fine, but it should not affect the tree. >Q. What do you think Morgan ? I think I was going to submit some artwork but Maff's artwork blew me away. :) -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31351 [tree] artwork... Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:16 am Subject: [tree] Concert Sets >Chris Owen worried: >so, unless TD were accommodating enough to provide a gap in their >set as you were coming to the end of side A of your cassette, a gap will >already exist in the original recording as the cassette was physically >turned over. In my mind, I think it's paramount that in those instances >where a whole concert is held on tape, that it shoud be transferred onto 2 >CDRs in order to preserve the show in its entirety. Due to the largely >improvised nature of the music, the TD shows from the mid 70s were like a >story in musical terms, and to have it interrupted ruins the impetus of the >recording. I believe that removing 20-30 minutes from an archive recording >of a show simply because there isn't enough room to fit it onto a single CDR >is unforgivable and should be avoided at all costs. In my opinion, if it >takes 2 CDRs to archive a whole show, then 2 CDRs it should be. Even if Disc >One contains 60 minutes, and Disc Two 35 minutes, the wasted space on each >disc is fine with me, as long as the whole show is present, however >imbalanced the running times of the discs. All concerts in 1976 and 1977 had at least 2 sets of no longer than 45 minutes each. Yes, there are some concerts with breaks in them due to running out of tape, but the bootleggers learned fast when to switch tapes/sides and how long TD would play each bit. TD rarely plays more than 50 minutes in a row. I'm not advocating that anything be deleted, only the possibility that 3 concerts could be put on 3 CDRs instead of 6. For example, for my own use, I repackaged the 2CD version of Poland onto a single 80 minute CDR. It's not missing any music, just the introduction and some applause has been cut off/faded. (And maybe Poland is a bad example since the actual concert was ~90 minutes long and the music was reperformed in 1984 with less repetition and omitting 2 encores and part of Hyperborea to fit on four 22 minute LP sides). -Morgan From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:50 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] FTP instead of tree? Since I am in the ISP business, I have a few static IP address that I could use. It would be very easy for me to set up a system, 20 gig or so to store, turn FTP on, and allow a full download via login/pw. I don't think this was ever a issue among the list here. Just the fact that those files would be rather large. My concern is being labeled a pirate due to the music not being sanction and controlling just who is doing the download. Even with a log, it is after the fact. The tree for private use is one thing, having a FTP running is another issue. For those who do contact me and request, I might do this on a case by case basis. I am sure folks here on the list and understand where I am coming from on this. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:56 am Subject: Re:[tree] artwork... I'm still thinking how I could at least come close the high standard he has set! :) >I think I was going to submit some artwork but Maff's artwork blew me away. :) >-Morgan Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:09 am Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream I don't have a clue what I used when I signed up. So I just made up another one. Joe pull sales@k... off the mailing for the group list but leave it joined so I can use it to vote with. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] New poll for tadream > use your personal Yahoo ID to login > > ATYE > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Adele Outland' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:57 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts >From: Mark Filipak >1 - What is one person's good parts is entirely a matter of PERSONAL >opinion. Yes, and I'm sorry I didn't put an IMO every two lines; can't take anything for granted on this list! >2 - If you want to cut out the boring parts, feel free to take your CDR, >and burn a 'best of' version. Not an option for me. I'm not that knowledgable on the mechanics of burning. But never mind. As pointed out there are already several comps out there. >3 - Don't presume to make decisions for anyone but you. WOW! Don't get so bent. I made no such claim. > >Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) Actually, I don't really feel as I did anymore. Must have been an off night. You all have convinced me that what I really DO want is the full concert, warts and all. Count me in. 8-) Dell As time slips into memory, memory fades into dreams. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:53 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1188 Okay...out of lurk...into rant (gotta love how things have perked up around here!) :-) > Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing > 2 CDRs per > concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, > wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. > > -Morgan Which would be the perfect scenario to do SHN...100 minutes easily fits on one CD... > It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to > be useful. > > -Morgan > Except for in the instance of your previous objection to using 2 CDs per show...hmmmm. Actually, I see it as in any trading environment, you have several schools of thought at work here. There are the 'possessors' that just want the music in any form, so they can listen to it. Doesn't matter if it is a lossy compression...just gotta have it. Their primary purpose is for their own listening pleasure...no problem with that. But, if they decide they want to trade an MP3 sourced CD-audio copy to a friend that then decides to convert to MP3, who then posts it on the web, where someone else downloads it and converts it to .wavs, burns a CD then starts trading that around...well, I think even the proponents of MP3 see problems with this. Talk about f***ing up the genepool! Then there are the 'archivists' that feel they want to not only possess the music but preserve it. They see no need to further degrade what is generally a 'non-perfect' audience recording by compressing using a lossy algorithm. Once you throw it away, it ain't coming back. Shorten files preserve the .wav in 'lossless' format with the ability to create a bit-perfect clone much more safely than extracting from a CD audio...with a reduction in file size by 40-50%. The point is lost that you don't necessarily SHN an audio file to 'compress' it to the point that you can carry it in your front pocket like a BIC lighter with 'acceptable' sound on playback. SHN is more for the radical notion that when you distribute a show of rare material, you would prefer to distribute the show with the least amount of degradation from point A to point B. MP3 is totally foreign to this way of thinking, and as a way of preserving music should be disregarded immediately. Fine for listening...not archiving. Redbook audio is almost foreign to this way of thinking also, as so many errors can be so easily introduced in the 'rip->burn' process...however, at least it *can* be done correctly, if folks know what they are doing. But honestly, if you end up down some winding branch and expect to have an exact bit for bit copy of the original file as transferred from analog, chances are slim that you will be satisfied...except in ignorance. It may sound the same, but it probably ain't. There are a few programs such as EAC which can help, but then you still have the whole issue of drive offsets and such, which if not configured properly for 'your' branches drives, then you will not get an exact digital clone. All the way down the line you will have chances for introducing errors which may or may not effect the 'perceived' sound of the CD's. It is just a fact of life... The ONLY way you can 'guarantee' exact digital 'bit-for-bit' clones is to distribute the files as either uncompressed .wav files (not CD Audio) or as compressed SHN files. (Compression here is analogous to 'zipping' a file, not throwing bits away to make it smaller). Anyway, to each his own, but if you really want to 'preserve' the shows, SHN makes a whole lot of sense...however, if it scares you stick with the audio or MP3. There are a ton of arguments either way, and I really don't want to get into a flame war, because you can say such things as: 1) They are 'remastered' anyway, so they have already been altered...who cares? 2) The mics were hypercards which distorted the higher frequencies off boresight, so the recording is not a representation of the actual sound anyway... 3) If everyone takes care and uses proper software down the line there will be no problems...(RIGHT! but big 'IF'). On and on and on...all I am saying that if you wanna stay with the original 'intended' sound, SHN is the only way to be certain...plus you get the entire show on one CD. May not be the most desirable, but certainly the truth. As for a SHN branch, Joe, I would be glad to run a SHN line if there is enough interest...assuming I get masters from Heiko or whoever masters them. I don't wanna run a SHN branch if I am way down the line...at that point why bother? Craig C. (the other one...) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31355 Re: Digest Number 1188 KMJ Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31357 Re: Digest Number 1188 Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 7 KB 31362 To WAV or... mars103nl Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31370 Re: To WAV or... Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: KMJ Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:02 am Subject: Re: Digest Number 1188 >As for a SHN branch, Joe, I would be glad to run a SHN line if there is >enough interest...assuming I get masters from Heiko or whoever masters them. >I don't wanna run a SHN branch if I am way down the line...at that point why >bother? Hey Craig, I'm definitely interested in a SHN branch!!! I'm a strong believer of the SHN format since it involves no audio extraction which more times than not is what introduces artifacts into the copies. Count me in!!! Kevin From: scfeldman@j... Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:37 am Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: TD Concerts On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:57:23 -0500 'Adele Outland' writes: >>From: Mark Filipak >>Regard -- Mark (who hopes NO ONE else feels as Adele feels) > >Actually, I don't really feel as I did anymore. Must have been >an off night. You all have convinced me that what I really DO >want is the full concert, warts and all. Count me in. 8-) Dell I thought about it some more and agree with Mark and Adele, now. Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:19 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1188 Craig, you definitely belong as a trunk on this tree, so that you can start the shn-friendly branch. Either it will be a dual branch, or if there are enough people who want shn format only, we'll organize that, too. no problem. Joe -----Original Message----- From: C. Chambers To: tadream@yahoogroups.com Sent: 1/14/02 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1188 Okay...out of lurk...into rant (gotta love how things have perked up around here!) :-) > Hieko, Duncan, please proceed with whole concerts. I think doing > 2 CDRs per > concert would be a bit wasteful, as many concerts are 86-95 minutes, > wasting nearly an hour per 2 disc set. > > -Morgan Which would be the perfect scenario to do SHN...100 minutes easily fits on one CD... > It should either be Audio CDs or mp3 (IMNSHO). SHN doesn't save enough to > be useful. > > -Morgan > Except for in the instance of your previous objection to using 2 CDs per show...hmmmm. Actually, I see it as in any trading environment, you have several schools of thought at work here. There are the 'possessors' that just want the music in any form, so they can listen to it. Doesn't matter if it is a lossy compression...just gotta have it. Their primary purpose is for their own listening pleasure...no problem with that. But, if they decide they want to trade an MP3 sourced CD-audio copy to a friend that then decides to convert to MP3, who then posts it on the web, where someone else downloads it and converts it to .wavs, burns a CD then starts trading that around...well, I think even the proponents of MP3 see problems with this. Talk about f***ing up the genepool! Then there are the 'archivists' that feel they want to not only possess the music but preserve it. They see no need to further degrade what is generally a 'non-perfect' audience recording by compressing using a lossy algorithm. Once you throw it away, it ain't coming back. Shorten files preserve the .wav in 'lossless' format with the ability to create a bit-perfect clone much more safely than extracting from a CD audio...with a reduction in file size by 40-50%. The point is lost that you don't necessarily SHN an audio file to 'compress' it to the point that you can carry it in your front pocket like a BIC lighter with 'acceptable' sound on playback. SHN is more for the radical notion that when you distribute a show of rare material, you would prefer to distribute the show with the least amount of degradation from point A to point B. MP3 is totally foreign to this way of thinking, and as a way of preserving music should be disregarded immediately. Fine for listening...not archiving. Redbook audio is almost foreign to this way of thinking also, as so many errors can be so easily introduced in the 'rip->burn' process...however, at least it *can* be done correctly, if folks know what they are doing. But honestly, if you end up down some winding branch and expect to have an exact bit for bit copy of the original file as transferred from analog, chances are slim that you will be satisfied...except in ignorance. It may sound the same, but it probably ain't. There are a few programs such as EAC which can help, but then you still have the whole issue of drive offsets and such, which if not configured properly for 'your' branches drives, then you will not get an exact digital clone. All the way down the line you will have chances for introducing errors which may or may not effect the 'perceived' sound of the CD's. It is just a fact of life... The ONLY way you can 'guarantee' exact digital 'bit-for-bit' clones is to distribute the files as either uncompressed .wav files (not CD Audio) or as compressed SHN files. (Compression here is analogous to 'zipping' a file, not throwing bits away to make it smaller). Anyway, to each his own, but if you really want to 'preserve' the shows, SHN makes a whole lot of sense...however, if it scares you stick with the audio or MP3. There are a ton of arguments either way, and I really don't want to get into a flame war, because you can say such things as: 1) They are 'remastered' anyway, so they have already been altered...who cares? 2) The mics were hypercards which distorted the higher frequencies off boresight, so the recording is not a representation of the actual sound anyway... 3) If everyone takes care and uses proper software down the line there will be no problems...(RIGHT! but big 'IF'). On and on and on...all I am saying that if you wanna stay with the original 'intended' sound, SHN is the only way to be certain...plus you get the entire show on one CD. May not be the most desirable, but certainly the truth. As for a SHN branch, Joe, I would be glad to run a SHN line if there is enough interest...assuming I get masters from Heiko or whoever masters them. I don't wanna run a SHN branch if I am way down the line...at that point why bother? Craig C. (the other one...) ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:28 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True Matthew Sawyer wrote: > -snip- > > I have a nice EF/CF/PB photo which I'd like to add to the cover spine, so > once all the CD's are arranged on the shelf the photo appears. Wow! I think this is a brilliant idea, Maff. -- Mark From: 'rtol008' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:10 am Subject: [tree] Once more Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! My final words about this. > Message: 12 > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:49:35 -0600 > From: Morgan Feldon > Subject: [tree] Re: audio or mp3 or SOMETHING ELSE! > 60% size for SHN is not small enough to justify changing anything. This value 60% what I gave is only an approximate value. But I guess/think the size wont get under 50%. > Nothing divides evenly into 60%. It would take serious reworking to do > anything with this format, as we can't easily fit 2 CDs worth of material > onto 1 CD unless it's just the right size. Actually this is not absolutely true. How many full 74 min CD:s do you have. I think there is a lot of stuff that has length of e.g. 84 min, 90 min or so (that's what I have) and they have to be split into two CDRs. OK, anyway if you want to have them in audio format there will be two CDs. But all material that is around 120 min or less can fit into one CDR if they are compressed into shn. The meaning is not to save so many CD discs but to give as good quality after several copies as possible. > The reason we bring up mp3 is that you can fit 6 hours of excellent quality > audio on a single CDR. That's the kind of savings that is enough to justify > a subtree. The reason why I brouht up SHN is that it is LOSSLESS, mp3 is lossy and even audio copies are lossy after several generation copies. So if there is something to mess around with, it is definitely mp3, not shn. Then let's keep it as audio, if people are not ready to enter to the world of shn :) > -Morgan regard, timo From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:24 am Subject: [tree] Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN I think this discussion has opened my eyes. And I think this is exactly the kind of discussion Heiko has allowed. media listening distribution ------- --------- ------------ MP3 okay poor (lossy) redbook best fair (errors) WAV computer! best SHN computer! best Proposal: - Distribute within tree using WAV or SHN (lossless & error-free!) - Production to leaves: redbook audio (play anywhere!) Anyone who can burn can also convert wav to redbook -- it's built into every burner program I know of, but be sure to use DAO. WAV or SHN distribution also provides the future possiblity of adding additional indexes using a wav editor. If I only have redbook, I must rip, then index, then burn. Ripping may introduce errors in the content due to bit errors and jitter. Please comment. -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31363 Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:38 am Subject: Tree - entire recordings Chris Owen wrote: > > minute live track, 15 minutes of which is unfortunately on one side of the > tape, and 10 minuted on the other, can I propose that the end of one be > digitally mixed/faded into the start of the other, with the entire 25 minute > track thus being preserved in its entirety on CDR with the rest of the show? > I had this obstacle to climb when I was transferring a recording of > Lonodon1981 from tape to CDR last year. Mojave Plan was cut in two. Aftering > carefully mixing the two halves with the aforementioned Wavelab 3.0, I > played the finished piece to a TD die-hard. I told him there had been a gap > somewhere in the track, yet he couldn't spot where. It's such a simple > process, it would be a crime not to utilise modern software in this manner > if it means improving the presentation of the music. I have done this also. With a WAV editor it is not hard to do, especially if there is a beat in the music (which shows up as regular peaks). The splice was undetectable. May I also point out that in some cases, there exist two recordings of the same concert. Careful WAV editing using both recordings can reconstruct/preserve the entire performance without any crossfades. Also, mixing the two recording, though extremely difficult (gaining sychronization and sampling out tape speed variations -- easier if you initially sample at 96 KHz and then subsample down to 44.1 KHz) is possible and will greatly reduce audience noise. > - Chris Thanks Chris for taking the time to present your thoughts so completely and clearly. Ciao -- Mark From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:55 am Subject: To WAV or... --- In tadream@y..., 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > The ONLY way you can 'guarantee' exact digital 'bit-for-bit' clones is to > distribute the files as either uncompressed .wav files (not CD Audio) or as > compressed SHN files. (Compression here is analogous to 'zipping' a file, > not throwing bits away to make it smaller). Anyway, to each his own, but if > you really want to 'preserve' the shows, SHN makes a whole lot of > sense...however, if it scares you stick with the audio or MP3. Ahh, finally someone reacted to the errors etc thing... (okay John reacted also). Most of you are concerned about which CDR brand to take while I personally never had any problem with any of them, although my feeling says it's better to stick some kind of known brand. So, when you guys are burning audio (redbook)...at what speed do you record it? This is for me a far more interesting thing then the brand. If you want the best quality you HAVE to burn at 1x speed. Or is that standard with anyone already and am I talking bollocks here. :-) I think I'm interested in this SHN thing, although I've never heard of it...I'll check it out. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31370 Re: To WAV or... Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:59 pm Subject: Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN Although I know that WAV or SHN (never had heard of that before this) would be the best way to distribute without losing anything, it would be too troublesome for me to burn some 50 CDRs, and then have 100 CDs, 50 in wav and 50 in cdr. It would be a lot of work for me, and I would also have to spend more money in CDRs. I would have to pay around 2-3 original imported CDs worth in CDRs, and that's A Lot Of Money. Thát's why I prefer audio anyway, in this tree. For me, the only data format good enough to be used would be 256 kbps MP3s. I can't hear any difference between an original and this format, and 5-6 CDs fit in a CDR in this format. I use mostly that for storage, L.A.M.E. encoded (which was recommended as one of the best encoders for high bitrates). Still, I'd have to decode and burn the CDRs at home if I got MP3 CDs, so I'd rather get audio CDs. > I think this discussion has opened my eyes. And I think this is exactly the kind of discussion Heiko has allowed. > > media listening distribution > ------- --------- ------------ > MP3 okay poor (lossy) > redbook best fair (errors) > WAV computer! best > SHN computer! best From: TheInfection Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:11 am Subject: Re: Name of the tree I would like a simple name... like Tangerine Tree for example. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:08 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN It will cost you no more, Gustavo -- read below... Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > Although I know that WAV or SHN (never had heard of that before this) would > be the best way to distribute without losing anything, it would be too > troublesome for me to burn some 50 CDRs, and then have 100 CDs, 50 in wav > and 50 in cdr. If your 'client' is a leaf, then burn red book. If your 'client' is a lower branch, then burn WAV. You only have to make 1 burn in either case. There is no extra work or extra expense. > It would be a lot of work for me, and I would also have to > spend more money in CDRs. I would have to pay around 2-3 original imported > CDs worth in CDRs, and that's A Lot Of Money. (See argument above.) > Thát's why I prefer audio anyway, in this tree. For me, the only data format > good enough to be used would be 256 kbps MP3s. I can't hear any difference > between an original and this format, and 5-6 CDs fit in a CDR in this > format. Well, I can't hear any difference either, but that's not the point. MP3 is not editable, you cannot index it, and there is an audible 'click' between files. It simply isn't appropriate for archival. Suggestion: If you are a leaf, simply ask your branch to supply you with 256MP3 and leave the rest of us to our WAV or SHN? Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31380 Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB From: 'Peter Ravn' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 12:48 pm Subject: Rubycon SACD Hi, There is a posting about the Rubycon SACD here: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/messages/46581.html - have anybody compared it to the CD versions ? Peter Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 32228 Rubycon SACD kassel24@h... Sat 2/16/2002 2 KB 32278 Re: Rubycon SACD tei waz Tue 2/19/2002 2 KB 32293 Rubycon SACD kassel24@h... Wed 2/20/2002 3 KB 32382 Rubycon SACD Marcelo Gutierrez Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32384 Re: Rubycon SACD tangram12 Mon 2/25/2002 2 KB 32412 Re: Rubycon SACD Marcelo Gutierrez Tue 2/26/2002 3 KB From: 'j.gordon' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:41 pm Subject: Re: [tree] more artwork trials hey, all... i've upload some cover (and one back) artwork trials for the tree... they are on http://www.tadream.net under the files link... i created a folder called Tree artwork... in it i've put four different covers and one back... more tradition photo manipulation, but using a common theme for fonts and name structure... i also used a name off the list that i liked, just as an example... i REALLY liked maff's stuff and wanted to participate too... =) j __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: fstephe@a... Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:45 pm Subject: With regards to the trees why not go with weeds Since there seems to be a question as to how to run the trees (guys don't want to send blank discs through the mail, etc.), why don't we just run weeds. Make the first concert available on a certain date. The same people who would start the tree simply make available to two or three individuals the concert (via this list). The first two or three that reply to that person off list get the show. Those people then offer it up and so on. That way, eventually, everybody only gets the shows they want without wasting postage, etc. As far as the question of whether this this should be the whole concert or stuff like that.... Go with the whole concert! Don't add filler material and just leave it at that. So what if there is 14 extra minutes of blank disc? Who cares? CDRs are so cheap compared to tapes that it really isn't necessary to use them all up. Just my 0.02 Frank From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:11 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] A Dream Come True At 04:51 PM 01/14/2002 -0500, you wrote: >why no metered postage? I take my packages to the post office, where they >weigh each of them and slap a metered sticky thingy on them, and I just pay >once. what's wrong with that? maybe there's something I'm not aware of. Metered mail going out is fine, Joe. It doesn't work to use metered mail on the return mailer (the one that goes back to the sender) as it's only good on the date on it. If the person sending the blanks uses metered mail on the return mailer, the person burning the copies will have to pay for the shipping back. It's happened to me a few times. No big deal most of the time, but an added annoyance. Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:54 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] To WAV or... At 09:55 AM 01/15/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I think I'm interested in this SHN thing, although I've never >heard of it...I'll check it out. Marcel-- Here is a link to the software: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html Mike From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN Here's a novel idea: Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this disc, etc. Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. This ensures that everyone gets a good copy, and if not, they only have to go back as far as their immediate branch to get a replacement. This avoids the possibility of having an error high in a branch somewhere that propagates to 15 or 20 people... Errors would be limited to one level. Lets look at the pros: - Less discs = less money for blanks and postage - errors limited to 1 level only - No time wasted making copies at 1X to ensure quality - Less time spent checking each disc for errors - Less opportunity for missed errors to propagate - Only Branches need to know anything about SHN And the Cons: - branches have to learn SHN - CDAudio conversion software (is this freeware? Where to downlaod?) Assuming the conversion is painless and quick, the Cons are minimal and the pros are impressive! The technology is there to ensure everyone gets the best possible copies with the least amount of money and effort. Lets use it! James Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31375 Re: [tree] SHN Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 5 KB 31377 Re: [tree] SHN Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31379 Re: [tree] SHN mars103nl Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31535 [tree] SHN Morgan Feldon Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31554 Re: [tree] SHN airsculpture Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB 31544 Re: [tree] SHN Matthew Sawyer Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 33209 [tree] SHN Morgan Feldon Thu 4/4/2002 2 KB From: Antonio Nunes Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even go further and > name it '...and Marmalade Skies' to leave the inference to Tangerine Tree > more in the open. IMHO 'Marmalade Skies' would be a great name... for a BEATLES tree! Antonio From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:20 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies Marmalade Skies is way out in front of the poll with 32% of the vote. I think it is a cool name because it automatically implies the 'tangerine trees' lyric. But 'Tree of Dreams' was a close second for me not only because of the 'Sea of Dreams' refernce, but also because it would be a good name even if someone wasn't familiar with SOD. > -----Original Message----- > From: Antonio Nunes [mailto:np97fa@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:45 AM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies > > > > > 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > > > For the name...I like 'Marmalade Skies', but I would even > go further and > > name it '...and Marmalade Skies' to leave the inference to > Tangerine Tree > > more in the open. > > > IMHO 'Marmalade Skies' would be a great name... for a BEATLES tree! > > Antonio > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:27 pm Subject: RE: SHN Hi James... (I hope you don't mind me posting this to the list since it has some great links in it) SHN is free and fast. It compresses/decompresses 74 min. of audio in just a couple minutes on my PC (450 MHz PII), it really is painless...you install the free program and then just right click on a 'shn' compressed file (or files) to uncompress back to CD Audio. To compress, you right click on the audio file. It is alot faster than going to/from MP3 in my experience. Plus there are not the annoying little gaps between tracks...it really is easy to go work with once you get it figured out. The hardest part is associating '.shn' file types with the program. From there it is painless. Here are some links: There are several programs out there, one of the most used (er, liked) is mkwact, which can be found here: http://etree.org/mkw.html or the official site here: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html Several fantastic sites with FAQs and How-to's abound: http://members.tripod.com/~rimeswel/shnguide.html#whatis_quick and http://alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html are two of my favorites... There is even a version for MACs here: http://www.hornig.net/shorten.html If you wanna buy a copy with documentation, go here: http://www.softsound.com/Shorten.html Anyway, SHN has quickly become the file format of choice for most internet groups that are serious about trading and preserving the music...especially those that have high speed connections. I just downloaded on DSL last night an entire 2 disc Genesis show from '73 in about 1 hour and a half! Granted, it was a freaking smoking ftp server I was accessing (most 2 disc shows take up to 4-5 hours), but it still beats the old snail mail...just log into the server, set up a cue and go to bed. Much as people have been doing for years with MP3 but without the lossy format. As already being shown, DVD recorders are dropping in price and within another year or so, they will be as prevalent as CDRW's are today...then we will be able to fit several 'non-compressed' shows on one DVD...I just don't see why we should throw away the bits at this point, as we are almost there! But these are my opinions and I am a user and somewhat biased :-) Good luck! Craig > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:James.E.Owens@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:35 AM > To: 'craig.chambers@m...' > Subject: RE:SHN > > > Hi Craig, > > I've never used SHN. How much trouble/time does it take > to convert from SHN to CD AUDIO? Is there freeware for this? > > James > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31376 Re: SHN Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31533 SHN Felna Greymane Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31537 Re: SHN C. Chambers Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:44 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN I was going to make some diagrams to show that making a shn-only branch or shn-friendly branch would not be a problem. instead of wasting my time doing that, just take my word for it here: ****** having an shn-only or shn-friendly branch is not a problem at all, and will be accomodated. **** same for mp3, but we'll stop there and not get crazy with more formats. Essentially, we won't know the structure until the deadline, but if you want to be included for shn or mp3, YOU HAVE TO LET ME KNOW and I will update the Tree Participant's Chart accordingly. Here's how it is not complicated: The tree is for redbook format by default. As a branch, you will distribute redbook format to your downline. however, if we can take care of all people, but have some who want to be 'SHN-ONLY', then they will be their own offshoot of the tree. As long as everybody gets the format they desire, I don't see what the big deal is about all this. I'll just have it charted out and color-coded, even. Relax - we'll accomodate the shn and mp3 formats. Don't worry. Joe P.S. Personally, i'm just doing redbook, but considering adding shn for archival reasons. > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:33 AM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN > > > Here's a novel idea: > > Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. > (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be > very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). > > Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio > CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this > disc, etc. > Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. > > This ensures that everyone gets a good copy, and if not, they > only have to go back as far as their immediate branch to get a > replacement. This avoids the possibility of having an error > high in a branch somewhere that propagates to 15 or 20 people... > Errors would be limited to one level. > > Lets look at the pros: > - Less discs = less money for blanks and postage > - errors limited to 1 level only > - No time wasted making copies at 1X to ensure quality > - Less time spent checking each disc for errors > - Less opportunity for missed errors to propagate > - Only Branches need to know anything about SHN > > And the Cons: > - branches have to learn SHN - CDAudio conversion software > (is this freeware? Where to downlaod?) > > Assuming the conversion is painless and quick, the Cons are > minimal and the pros are impressive! > > The technology is there to ensure everyone gets the best > possible copies with the least amount of money and effort. > Lets use it! > > James > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:47 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: SHN > -----Original Message----- > years with MP3 but without the lossy format. As already > being shown, DVD > recorders are dropping in price and within another year or > so, they will be > as prevalent as CDRW's are today...then we will be able to fit several > 'non-compressed' shows on one DVD...I just don't see why we > should throw > away the bits at this point, as we are almost there! excellent points, Craig. you have me convinced that I'm going to do shn in addition to my redbook participation! From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:32 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN At 10:33 AM 01/15/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. >(I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be >very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). Here is a link to a shn FAQ. I'm new to shn files too as most of the time I've come across them before, they were for downloads, not for mailing. Hope this helps us all understand this better! http://www.alumni.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html Mike From: 'coldwatercanyon' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:40 pm Subject: Wanted: Rockoon CD on Volt Records (light blue cover) Hi Anybody has this CD available for sale or swap? Jeffrey From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [tree] SHN --- In tadream@y..., 'Owens, James' wrote: > > Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. > (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be > very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). > > Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio > CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this > disc, etc. > Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. I think this is an excellent idea. The software is free for most platforms, Windows, Mac and Unix/Linux. Count me in as a SHN branch or leave. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:43 am Subject: Re: Summary: MP3 -vs- redbook -vs- WAV -vs- SHN I know, I was talking about the tree being WAV instead of audio; I was talking about receiving the CDs in WAV. I wouldn't have any problem to send them in WAV or MP3 (I would even prefer that way, it's easier than burning audio). Actually, by the time the distribution starts, I'm not sure if I will be able to send audio CDRs; maybe I'll only be able to make MP3 CDRs for my client. But let's see how it goes... anyway, my point was, I don't want to receive data CDs because then I'd have to spend more money (and precious time) converting it all to audio CDRs. I prefer getting audio CDRs. >> Although I know that WAV or SHN (never had heard of that before this) would >> be the best way to distribute without losing anything, it would be too >> troublesome for me to burn some 50 CDRs, and then have 100 CDs, 50 in wav >> and 50 in cdr. > > If your 'client' is a leaf, then burn red book. If your 'client' is a lower branch, then burn WAV. You only have to make 1 burn in either case. There is no extra work or extra expense. (...) > Ciao -- Mark From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:50 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Digest Number 1189 > Here's a novel idea: > > Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. > (I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be > very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). > > Discs burned for leaves will be converted back to audio > CD according to a predetermined format, i.e. this file to this > disc, etc. > Discs burned for the next branch will stay in SHN. > > This ensures that everyone gets a good copy, and if not, they > only have to go back as far as their immediate branch to get a > replacement. This avoids the possibility of having an error > high in a branch somewhere that propagates to 15 or 20 people... > Errors would be limited to one level. > > Lets look at the pros: > - Less discs = less money for blanks and postage > - errors limited to 1 level only > - No time wasted making copies at 1X to ensure quality > - Less time spent checking each disc for errors > - Less opportunity for missed errors to propagate > - Only Branches need to know anything about SHN > > And the Cons: > - branches have to learn SHN - CDAudio conversion software > (is this freeware? Where to downlaod?) > > Assuming the conversion is painless and quick, the Cons are > minimal and the pros are impressive! > > The technology is there to ensure everyone gets the best > possible copies with the least amount of money and effort. > Lets use it! > > James Kevin, Mark, Mike, Timo and Marcel I think get the 'preservation' thing I was talking about...James is absolutely right in what he came up with on the shn thing (by himself, no less!! I am impressed). But all of the reasons mentioned by James are exactly why .shn is becoming the 'distribution' method of choice amongst traders...but I would not go so far as require all branches to be shn literate, that may be asking too much. Certainly all leaves will have the option of getting redbook audio though! (and a bit-perfect reproduction to boot!) One other thing that hasn't been mentioned regarding .shn is since they are files in a directory structure on the cd, you usually have more than enough room to include the artwork as well as a text file describing each recording on the disc. So on a .shn disc you would have the following file structure: td19750816.shnf td19750816-d1.shnf td19750816-d1t01.shn td19750816-d1t02.shn td19750816-d1t03.shn td19750816-d1t04.shn td19750816-d1.md5 td19750816-d2.shnf td19750816-d2t01.shn td19750816-d2t02.shn td19750816-d2t03.shn td19750816-d2t04.shn td19750816-d2.md5 td19750816_front.jpg td19750816_back.jpg td19750816_info.txt There is even a standard acceptable practice in 'naming' shows, which if you wanna be anal we could adhere too. What this shows is the group 'td', the date 'YYYYMMDD', the audio disc #'s and track #'s in their respective directories, which is designated by a .shnf. The text file would simply have date/venue/track names/timings/taper's name/what was done to it (i.e. equalization/speed correction/mono-to-stereo, etc.)/tree structure/etc....anything you want really. Pretty simple, huh?? Yeah, right!! :-) Craig From: 'John Vertical' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] ...and Marmalade Skies >Marmalade Skies is way out in front of the poll with 32% of the vote. I >think it is a cool name because it automatically implies the 'tangerine >trees' lyric. > >But 'Tree of Dreams' was a close second for me not only because of the 'Sea >of Dreams' refernce, but also because it would be a good name even if >someone wasn't familiar with SOD. I know I'm late with my suggestion, but ideas don't usually come exactly when needed. Well. As real tangerines do grow in trees, how about Citrus reticulata? That's the latin name of a tangerine... John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:05 pm Subject: SHN and XP I just downloaded and tried mkw Audio Compression Tool and it failed on my Windows XP machine. But it works perfectly when you right-click on the shortcut on your desktop and make it Windows95 compatible. Just wanted to share it. Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: 'Craig Cordrey' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:31 pm Subject: RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Okay, it's entirely possible that I'm just plain THICK, but on this issue of SHN.... I am a branch with, let's say, 3 leaves. 1. The trunk sends me an SHN CDR. 2. I make three Audio copies for my leaves. 3. I then have to make an Audio copy for myself (unless you're going to tell me that my SHN copy will play in a standard CD player). 4. I now have an extra, unneeded SHN copy which is the item that I B&P'd for. That seems to be costing me more. I'd like to make a stand for the lazy and non-technically minded and I say 'Keep It Simple, Stupid!'. Standard CD's, no special compression, sent to everyone irrespective of arboreal tendencies. Yours woodenly Craig Cordrey Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31387 Re: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31390 Re: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31393 Re: [tree]Red Book vs SHN atye@a... Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:39 pm Subject: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! >James Owens said: > >Pass all masters from branch to branch by SHN format. >(I've never used SHN, but I can see how it would be >very advantageous and I'm willing to learn). You've just ruled out 50% of the branches as well as Hieko. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31395 Re: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!? Owens, James Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31399 Re: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!? Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31401 Re: [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!? Administrator for kay-net.com Tue 1/15/2002 4 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:59 pm Subject: [tree] names having not read the list in days and having now read several of the digests I suggest this name Traumatic :) --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31388 Re: [tree] names Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31447 [tree] names tei waz Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31448 Re: [tree] names Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Glad you're asking this question, Craig, so that I can clarify it for you. You will not receive an shn formatted disk unless you specifically elect to be in a shn-friendly branch. The default standard for distribution for this tree is redbook audio. Further clarification: YOU MUST LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT SHN. Otherwise, you will be placed in a redbook branch. To do so, click here: mailto:tadream-owner@yahoogroups.com?subject=I_want_shn Furthermore, if you want to be SHN-ONLY, that's fine, too. The standard will be that EVERYBODY RECeIVES REDBOOK UNLESS THEY SPECIFY SHN-'ONLY'. Hope that clarifies. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Cordrey [mailto:craig.cordrey@b...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:32 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN > > > > Okay, it's entirely possible that I'm just plain THICK, but > on this issue of > SHN.... > > I am a branch with, let's say, 3 leaves. > > 1. The trunk sends me an SHN CDR. > 2. I make three Audio copies for my leaves. > 3. I then have to make an Audio copy for myself (unless > you're going to tell > me that my SHN copy will play in a standard CD player). > 4. I now have an extra, unneeded SHN copy which is the item > that I B&P'd > for. > > That seems to be costing me more. > > I'd like to make a stand for the lazy and non-technically > minded and I say > 'Keep It Simple, Stupid!'. Standard CD's, no special > compression, sent to > everyone irrespective of arboreal tendencies. > > Yours woodenly > Craig Cordrey > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:17 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] names LOL ROFLMAO > -----Original Message----- > From: tei waz [mailto:teiwazbarana@h...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:00 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] [tree] names > > > having not read the list in days and having now read several > of the digests > I suggest this name > > > Traumatic > > > :) > > --T > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:37 pm Subject: [tree] CDR brand recommendations I have the following CDR recommendations on the tree info page, which I think Morgan gave. Does anyone else have any recommendations or links for me to put in the 'CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS:' section? Note: these are only RECOMMENDATIONS that we will provide on the info page, not mandates. You should communicate with your branchline to agree on media. - Imation - Verbatim Datalife Plus (not valuelife!!) - TDK - Memorex Platinum 74 min or silver-top 80 min (NOT GOLD!!) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31392 Re: [tree] CDR brand recommendations Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31396 Re: [tree] CDR brand recommendations Gustavo Jobim Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN At 07:31 PM 01/15/2002 +0000, you wrote: >I'd like to make a stand for the lazy and non-technically minded and I say >'Keep It Simple, Stupid!'. Standard CD's, no special compression, sent to >everyone irrespective of arboreal tendencies. Arf arf! Have to say I agree with you Craig. I have the shn software (have had for some time) but it makes my eyes cross when I see all the stuff I have to do for a simple disc. Luddites R Us From: 'tei waz' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:02 pm Subject: [tree] fring formats.../observations we start off talking about how cheap CDRs are and then talk about not wasting space....I would love shn discs if I actually get them.... would I need to snip the shn files to make CDRs--say if an SHN clocked in at over 74 or 80 minutes or would they be the same length as the original tape sides 45/55/55/60 or CDR 74/80 minutes? If I were to use mp3 I'd rather have variable bit rate at 100%--although I find the constantly changing times on say winamp during playback annoying. I don't really like how the high frequencies sound on mp3 formatted discs, but my hearing is shot in many bands across the audio spectrum, so maybe it's just my ears :) And I've been known to use a software and it generally tells me if there are RIFF chunk problems and truncations--are these mostly from NERO burns? eac is fine but can be awfully slow--ever try to use it on the klaus schulze box set or CDRs with labels from others on this list?--sometimes it grabs at 0.6X real time. Some times it works fine and I can get 1.7X. Sometimes I lose patience and use another grabber that almost always grabs at 4X. And hell sometimes I use my machine at work. I'd offer MD to those that want copies (must send blanks) but I can only do them in real time and that would take forever :) finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your soundcard is also an issue. --T _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31394 Re: [tree] fring formats.../observations Michael Fox Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31398 Re: [tree] fring formats.../observations mars103nl Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB 31403 [tree] fring formats.../observations Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:04 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] CDR brand recommendations At 03:37 PM 01/15/2002 -0500, you wrote: > Does anyone else have any recommendations or links for >me to put in the 'CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS:' section? I've had much success with Fujifilm 80 min. discs lately. Been using them almost exclusively for some months with nary a problem--and have gotten them back in trades from some very respectable people, so I would recommend them as well. These are Japanese manufacture. Prob T-Y's. Mike From: atye@a... Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: [tree]Red Book vs SHN Hey, 'arboreal tendencies' might be the name...... ;-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: Michael Fox Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] fring formats.../observations At 01:02 PM 01/15/2002 -0800, you wrote: >say if an SHN clocked in at >over 74 or 80 minutes or would they be the same length as the original tape >sides 45/55/55/60 or CDR 74/80 minutes? From what I read, I think they would be the same as the original file when uncompressed-and there seems to be some method to 'measure' the time before compressing or whatever. >I don't really like how the high frequencies sound on mp3 formatted discs, >but my hearing is shot in many bands across the audio spectrum, so maybe >it's just my ears :) Don't think so. I've got some acoustic guitar mp3 files and the highs are really harsh--except on this old pair of A/R speakers I have, which are known to roll off highs. :-) They REALLY suck in the car, though, and since this is broad spectrum synth, I'd imagine worse. >And I've been known to use a software and it generally tells me if there are >RIFF chunk problems and truncations--are these mostly from NERO burns? I've been playing with some software called Audio Cleaning Lab by a German outfit called Magix and have been impressed with it. Mainly for transferring vinyl and tape to disc, but have been using it on direct disc to disc things with great results. It has all ends of tools to play with (dehisser, decrackler, depopper, eq, compressor, direct x stuff, file editing, etc., and does a bang up job cleaning up tapes and vinyl. Quite easy to use too. Mike From: 'Owens, James' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 8:37 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! That's not my intention. Heiko and whoever else is seeding can pass the CDR audio to the tree root. THAT PERSON should be someone who is able to convert to SHN. Then the first level branches would receive their copies in SHN. This also saves on the inter-continental shipping charges to the roots in the US, Australia, South America, etc. Less discs mailed = cheaper for everybody. Only the root needs to worry about file structure and naming. The main trunk would be SHN, but at some level, Audio-only branches come from the SHN trunk. These branches would consist of those folks who prefer to receive and send audio only. I think this is a reasonable structure, since it benefits EVERYONE, and those who don't want to deal with SHN will STILL get the benefit of less errors and quicker distribution. (trunk-to-trunk would have just over half the discs to copy which could really speed things up...) It may complicate organization a bit, but no more than a totally separate SHN tree. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. James > -----Original Message----- > From: Morgan Feldon [mailto:feldon@f...] > You've just ruled out 50% of the branches as well as Hieko. From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:29 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] CDR brand recommendations I would add to that list Kodak. I never had any problems with it. I haven't used but I guess that Sony would be reliable too. And I've just began using Samsung, which also seems to be good. I guess you can be safe with any major and worldwide known brand. >I have the following CDR recommendations on the tree info page, which I >think Morgan gave. Does anyone else have any recommendations or links for >me to put in the 'CDR MEDIA REQUIREMENTS:' section? >- Imation >- Verbatim Datalife Plus (not valuelife!!) >- TDK >- Memorex Platinum 74 min or silver-top 80 min (NOT GOLD!!) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: 'Whiteley, Steve' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:52 pm Subject: RE: [tree] SHN ** attn ** Joe Shoults I would like to use the SHN format on my branch, if I have leaves I should be able to convert to their desired format. Thanks for all the education material. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31400 Re: [tree] SHN ** attn ** Joe Shoults Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 2 KB From: 'mars103nl' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:56 pm Subject: Re: [tree] fring formats.../observations --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your soundcard is > also an issue. Not really. You don't need an audiocard for making a digital copy. In fact I urge people NOT to use their audio-card for making a copy to their hard-drive, except for Heiko who is making a copy from whatever source he is using into his PC. And that raises the question...Heiko, what soundcard do you have? Say it ain't a Soundblaster... Or are you using digital inputs? Marcel http://home.wanadoo.nl/mengels mengels@w... From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:15 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! We already have the SHN roots established as Craig Chambers and Michael Fox, who will take care of the file structure issue. They can't establish this structure until Heiko has the files ready, and this is happening quickly in the background. We will continue to inform you of the details as they become solid. There are plenty of people not interested in shn, btw. i'm participating as redbook+shn, but I'll probably just shelve the shn disks for posterity, and use the redbooks right away. If I lose a redbook (or give it away in a trade or whatever), I can restore from the shn archive, presumably even better than original. Again, part of this tree will be all redbook. part will be redbook+shn. part may be shn-only. We'll know Feb 1. Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:37 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! > > > That's not my intention. Heiko and whoever else is seeding > can pass the CDR audio to the tree root. THAT PERSON should > be someone who is able to convert to SHN. Then the first level From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:22 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: [tree] SHN ** attn ** Joe Shoults is that SHN+redbook or shn-only? the reason I'm asking on list is so other people will reply with the same info if they elect shn. personally, I want the shn, but I don't want to bother converting back to wav, then burning to redbook, unless I have to. > -----Original Message----- > From: Whiteley, Steve [mailto:steve.whiteley@s...] > I would like to use the SHN format on my branch, if I have > leaves I should > be able to convert to their desired format. Thanks for all > the education material. > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! Same here, I will keep both. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Joe Shoults' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 2:15 PM Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! > We already have the SHN roots established as Craig Chambers and Michael Fox, > who will take care of the file structure issue. They can't establish this > structure until Heiko has the files ready, and this is happening quickly in > the background. > > We will continue to inform you of the details as they become solid. > > There are plenty of people not interested in shn, btw. i'm participating as > redbook+shn, but I'll probably just shelve the shn disks for posterity, and > use the redbooks right away. If I lose a redbook (or give it away in a > trade or whatever), I can restore from the shn archive, presumably even > better than original. > > Again, part of this tree will be all redbook. part will be redbook+shn. > part may be shn-only. We'll know Feb 1. > > Joe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Owens, James [mailto:james.owens@m...] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:37 PM > > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > > Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] SHN becoming vital part of the tree?!?! > > > > > > That's not my intention. Heiko and whoever else is seeding > > can pass the CDR audio to the tree root. THAT PERSON should > > be someone who is able to convert to SHN. Then the first level > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:35 pm Subject: [tree] Voting for a name I'm a little resentful that I suggested the very first name (A Dream Come True) and now I don't even get to vote. Why is this being monopolized by Yahoo? I like 'Traumatic'. Would like 'Traumatized' too. -- Mark PS: It doesn't really matter as I'm going to call mine what I want to call it. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31405 Re: [tree] Voting for a name Joe Shoults Tue 1/15/2002 3 KB 31406 [tree] Voting for a name Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 5 KB 31410 Re: [tree] Voting for a name Antonio Nunes Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:43 pm Subject: [tree] fring formats.../observations tei waz wrote: > > finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your soundcard is > also an issue. Why's that? -- Mark From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:55 pm Subject: [tree] Outboard sampler only, please (was: fring formats.../observations) The only really good sampler to use is an outboard sampler, not a card in a PC. The electrical environment in a PC is just too crummy. It doesn't matter what sound card you have. PCs card busses don't have enough grounds (true even of PCI bus), the bus grounds are too far away from the chips and inputs, and there is inadequite shielding (usually, none!). I'm an electrical (hardware) engineer. This technology I do know about and was one of six architects who specified the EISA bus (forerunner of PCI). Take me word for it, use only an outboard sampler. If doing a rip, please use only DAE (direct audio extraction), not CDR audio output sampling. If your CD does not support DAE, then be a leaf, not a branch. My 2 cents. Ciao -- Mark mars103nl wrote: > > --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > > > finally, CDR burn speed is an issue but the quality of your > soundcard is > > also an issue. > > Not really. > You don't need an audiocard for making a digital copy. > In fact I urge people NOT to use their audio-card > for making a copy to their hard-drive, except for Heiko > who is making a copy from whatever source he is using > into his PC. > And that raises the question...Heiko, what soundcard > do you have? Say it ain't a Soundblaster... > Or are you using digital inputs? > > Marcel From: Joe Shoults Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:11 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name 'A dream come true' is in the listing and has received one vote. I'm not sure what you mean by 'monopolized' by yahoo, but if you mean that you resent having to login or establish a yahoogroups profile in order to access the polling feature at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls then I understand. Many people have been confumbsilated by the yahoogorups profile thing. But what do you want for free? your money back? ;-) I'll add your vote to 'A dream come true', or did you want 'Traumatic' or 'Traumatized'?. Current standings: name # of votes Diamond Dreams 2 The Road Less Travelled 2 (The) Tangerine Tree 1 4 A Tree of Dreams 1 Marmalade skies 9 A dream come true 1 Sharing the Dream 3 One World Dream 1 Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies 2 TraumEpoche 1 Traumstücke 1 (all other choices have zero votes) > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:36 PM > To: Tadream > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name > > > I'm a little resentful that I suggested the very first name > (A Dream Come True) and now I don't even get to vote. Why is > this being monopolized by Yahoo? > > I like 'Traumatic'. Would like 'Traumatized' too. -- Mark > > PS: It doesn't really matter as I'm going to call mine what I > want to call it. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:27 pm Subject: [tree] Voting for a name I think this name is being rushed. We all learned a lot about SHN and though originally ignorant, I thank all who educated me. Regarding the name, I'll just put it this way: If the artwork that comes with the sources says 'Marmalade skies', I'll make my own artwork. This is a compilation of Tangerine Dream, not The Ones. 'Lady Greengrass' was written by Edgar as part of The Ones. Oh, wait... we don't even know if Edgar wrote 'Lady Greengrass', do we? Isn't that an assumption? It could have been a collaboration by Edgar, Kurt, Lanse, and Volker. 'Marmalade skies' makes no sense to me. As I originally posted, I'd prefer a name that applies to Tangerine Dream, that is dignified, and that is in German (as a tribute). 'Traumatic' is a good name, IMHO, that spans English-German. But I suspect that at this point, it is too late already to suggest new names, so I guess when I get my personal copy, I will be modifying the artwork to read 'Traumatic' and that will be that -- no big deal, eh? Ciao -- Mark Joe Shoults wrote: > > 'A dream come true' is in the listing and has received one vote. I'm not > sure what you mean by 'monopolized' by yahoo, but if you mean that you > resent having to login or establish a yahoogroups profile in order to access > the polling feature at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/polls then I understand. Many people > have been confumbsilated by the yahoogorups profile thing. > > But what do you want for free? your money back? ;-) > > I'll add your vote to 'A dream come true', or did you want 'Traumatic' or > 'Traumatized'?. > > Current standings: > > name # of votes > > Diamond Dreams 2 > The Road Less Travelled 2 > (The) Tangerine Tree 1 4 > A Tree of Dreams 1 > Marmalade skies 9 > A dream come true 1 > Sharing the Dream 3 > One World Dream 1 > Tangerine Trees and Marmalade Skies 2 > TraumEpoche 1 > Traumstücke 1 > (all other choices have zero votes) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:36 PM > > To: Tadream > > Subject: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name > > > > > > I'm a little resentful that I suggested the very first name > > (A Dream Come True) and now I don't even get to vote. Why is > > this being monopolized by Yahoo? > > > > I like 'Traumatic'. Would like 'Traumatized' too. -- Mark > > > > PS: It doesn't really matter as I'm going to call mine what I > > want to call it. > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:27 pm Subject: tree formats Hiya all, lots of things I could say about the formats discussion, but basically all I would say has already been said. I'm volounteering to root source the MP3 tree, that is, encoding (Lame or Fraunhofer, 192 or 256 kB ?). A few of us are keen on (as far as humanely possible) bit-exact copies of the masters. Bear in mind that our root source, Heiko (at least do him the honour to spell his name correctly!) is using HiFi equipment - the equivalent to on-the-fly copying on computers. Also, the 'raw' transfers from tape he's got will be 'mastered' by a bunch of different people. I suggest the 'bit-exact'-fanatics sign up with a clear identification of their wants, including 'mastered' or 'raw' material, and I'm sure there will be a way to get everybody what he wants. As a bit of condensed technical info for the ones on the default red book Audio CD track: - please copy DAO (Disk At Once, no extra pauses between tracks) - due to the nature of reading the original master CD, it is possible to have errors (glitches, klicks) on the copy without an error message during the process. - These can _only_ be avoided by first reading the master CD with a special audio extraction program (EAC gives the most information about errors) and then burning a copy from the files on the hard drive. This is how I copy CDRs. Never, ever on-the-fly! I had to learn better the hard way... TeiWaz, you're absolutely right in mentioning that EAC _can_ be painfully slow. That's what happens when there are problems with the original, it keeps on reading and reading and reading until it's sure to have the data right. Not a bug, a feature. I highly recommend it's use _if_ you are a branch feeding one of our 'very quality concious' members. cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31409 Re: tree formats Mark Filipak Tue 1/15/2002 4 KB From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:37 pm Subject: tree name suggestion Can't help it, late at night ;-) : nice artwork, but with a little 'logo' somewhere, showing a gargoyle on a sleeping Edgar's chest, caption: Alptraum (nightmare , in English) cheers, klaus From: Mark Filipak Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 11:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree formats Do you know how/where I can get EAC? -- Mark Klaus Beschorner wrote: > > Hiya all, > > lots of things I could say about the formats discussion, but > basically all I would say has already been said. > > I'm volounteering to root source the MP3 tree, that is, > encoding (Lame or Fraunhofer, 192 or 256 kB ?). > > A few of us are keen on (as far as humanely possible) > bit-exact copies of the masters. > > Bear in mind that our root source, Heiko (at least do him > the honour to spell his name correctly!) is using HiFi > equipment - the equivalent to on-the-fly copying on > computers. Also, the 'raw' transfers from tape he's > got will be 'mastered' by a bunch of different people. > > I suggest the 'bit-exact'-fanatics sign up with a clear > identification of their wants, including 'mastered' or > 'raw' material, and I'm sure there will be a way to > get everybody what he wants. > > As a bit of condensed technical info for the ones > on the default red book Audio CD track: > > - please copy DAO (Disk At Once, no extra pauses between tracks) > - due to the nature of reading the original master CD, it is > possible to have errors (glitches, klicks) on the copy without > an error message during the process. > - These can _only_ be avoided by first reading the master CD with > a special audio extraction program (EAC gives the most information > about errors) and then burning a copy from the files on the > hard drive. This is how I copy CDRs. Never, ever on-the-fly! > I had to learn better the hard way... > > TeiWaz, you're absolutely right in mentioning that EAC _can_ > be painfully slow. That's what happens when there are problems > with the original, it keeps on reading and reading and reading until > it's sure to have the data right. Not a bug, a feature. > > I highly recommend it's use _if_ you are a branch feeding > one of our 'very quality concious' members. > > cheers, > klaus From: Antonio Nunes Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name Mark Filipak wrote: > > Regarding the name, I'll just put it this way: If the artwork that comes with the sources says 'Marmalade skies', I'll make my own artwork. This is a compilation of Tangerine Dream, not The Ones. The lyrics 'With tangerine trees and marmalade skies' is from the song 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' by The Beatles. That's why I wrote in a previous message that the name 'Marmalade Skies' would be a cool name for a Beatles tree. Antonio From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:09 am Subject: RE: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats and ways to burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use mp3. WTF?????? How can you take something so simple as to use the CD COPIER function with DAO in your various burning programs and distort the crap out of it makes me shake my head. I have one word for you folks: KISS Keep It Simple Stupid Let stick with the simple things in life. Thanks, Robert aka THE HIGHLANDER Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31415 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Michael A Jean Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31416 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER KMJ Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31418 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Admin Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31437 Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Admin Wed 1/16/2002 4 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:40 am Subject: [tree] Voting for a name -- 'Marmalade skies' Antonio Nunes wrote: > > Mark Filipak wrote: > > > > Regarding the name, I'll just put it this way: If the artwork that comes with the sources says 'Marmalade skies', I'll make my own artwork. This is a compilation of Tangerine Dream, not The Ones. > > The lyrics 'With tangerine trees and marmalade skies' is from the song > 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' by The Beatles. That's why I wrote in a > previous message that the name 'Marmalade Skies' would be a cool name > for a Beatles tree. I thought that the allusion here is not to The Beatles, but to the line in 'Lady Greengrass': 'The trees turn tangerine, the sky is suddenly green....' If the reference is to The Beatles, well, that just doesn't make sense to me. This isn't a Beatles collection we're doing. Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. What ?? Please. Let's not perpetuate this mythical connection with The Beatles. It simply doesn't exist. Other possible cool names: 'Alptraum' -- from Klaus B. (I like it) 'Traumatic' -- form tei waz 'Traumatized' -- from me, earlier. 'Trauma' -- from me, just now. 'Traumatisch Traum' -- from me, just now. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31443 Re: [tree] Voting for a name -- 'Marmalade skies' Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:43 am Subject: Seeking George Veltmann Hello. Does anyone have an email address for George Veltmann? Last I knew, he was living in Dortmund. Thanks -- Mark From: KMJ Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:56 am Subject: Re: CDR brand recommendations >Note: these are only RECOMMENDATIONS that we will provide on the info page, >not mandates. You should communicate with your branchline to agree on >media. > >- Imation >- Verbatim Datalife Plus (not valuelife!!) >- TDK >- Memorex Platinum 74 min or silver-top 80 min (NOT GOLD!!) If I'm not mistaken, all of these discs mentioned above are made in Taiwan and are considered grade 'B' media. Having said that, my choice of disc is FUJI. Made in Japan and grade 'A'. Kevin From: 'Michael A Jean' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:39 am Subject: RE: [tadream] RE: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER I concur...I have such a headache from reading all these messages, I can't even imagine participating...But that's just me... > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Grabowsky [mailto:hghlndr@t...] > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:09 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [tadream] RE: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER > > > You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats > and ways to > burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use > mp3. WTF?????? > > How can you take something so simple as to use the CD COPIER function > with DAO in your various burning programs and distort the crap out of it > makes me shake my head. > > I have one word for you folks: KISS > > Keep > It > Simple > Stupid > > Let stick with the simple things in life. > > Thanks, > Robert aka THE HIGHLANDER > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: KMJ Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:42 am Subject: Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Robert made some excellent points in his post. Points well taken. So Robert, that means you're signing up for the SHN tree right??? >From: Robert Grabowsky > > You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats and ways to >burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use mp3. WTF?????? > > How can you take something so simple as to use the CD COPIER function >with DAO in your various burning programs and distort the crap out of it >makes me shake my head. > > I have one word for you folks: KISS > > Keep > It > Simple > Stupid > > Let stick with the simple things in life. From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:59 am Subject: [tree] Digital Audio Extraction >Klaus Beschorner said: >- due to the nature of reading the original master CD, it is >possible to have errors (glitches, klicks) on the copy without >an error message during the process. >- These can _only_ be avoided by first reading the master CD with >a special audio extraction program (EAC gives the most information >about errors) and then burning a copy from the files on the >hard drive. This is how I copy CDRs. Never, ever on-the-fly! >I had to learn better the hard way... I agree wholeheartedly. And DAE should be mandatory, no analog resampling. When you extract a disc, especially at high speed, please at the very least verify the integrity of the last 2-3 tracks on the disc, especially near the end. Usually, if there was a problem reading, it will be at the outer tracks due to the much higher spin rate at the outer edges. Another way to check for a bad read is to jump to the beginning of each track and see if it starts too early or 'mid-fade up'. This would indicate that small segments have been skipped and the start of the track is out of alignment. -Morgan From: 'Admin' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Well this much I do know. 1. I am sure I will be told what disks I will get to make the leaves from. 2. I am sure the leaves will tell me what format they want. 3. I am almost sure I will be looking around for the various programs to make these copies as requested. 4. My bottom line to me is, I will hear TD material that I have never heard before and may never if it wasn't for this tree. So you can debate the format till a certain place freezes over, still I wait knowing that I will soon hear what I have not before. dale My disks of choice Joe is Maxell, Yamaha and Memorex. I would kill if I had to use TDK. Why? Everytime I use a TDK I have to cut the speed down to half the rated (8 speed records at 4 and on). I do own nearly 150 TDK disks now so I believe I have some experience here when I say, TDK does not burn well on my CDRecorder. Why do I have some many? Trade. So if you want to poke some fun at me, send me a TDK disk. It is my lot in life you know! From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:00 am Subject: [tree] >Michael A Jean said: >I concur...I have such a headache from reading all these messages, I can't >even imagine participating...But that's just me... Nobody complained that much when the Sea of Dreams tree went thru. I guess Hieko could have contacted a few people privately and tried to figure it out on his own and then just present us with the tree rules and say 'here it is, it's immutable, do it this way.' We'd have an equal number of people generating headaches about how we should be able to do this or that. -Morgan From: Morgan Feldon Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:03 am Subject: [tree] My witty comment got cut off. On the tadream list, you will always get input, whether it is wanted or not. :) -Morgan From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:07 am Subject: EAC experiences Before I begin, Edgar, Jerome, and/or Martin: If you are reading this, rest assured that I do not rip commercial releases to make MP3s for the net and I do not burn commercial releases to sell. I'm not a pirate. I have 5 copies of 'Poland' commercial releases, so the band has made it's money from me. I am archiving and hope to some day make a CDRx2 of the entire Torwar Ice Stadium show in the order of performance, if that is possible, for my own listening pleasure. Contents ======== Getting Started with EAC Ripping 'Poland' Conclusions PS: Chronology listing for the Torwar Ice Stadium show - for folks interested in minutiae. Getting Started with EAC ======================== I downloaded EAC (Exact Audio Copy) version 0.9 prebeta 11 (filename: u6ep5z8z.zip) from http://www.exactaudiocopy.de. There is no install program, just copy EAC.EXE to a final, working directory and run it. I set up EAC: EAC options > Extraction > Extraction and compression priority: High EAC options > Extraction > Error recovery quality: High EAC options > Directories > Use this directory: ...rip_destination... Drive options > Gap Detection > Detection accuracy: Secure Drive options > Drive > Spin up drive before extraction I tested my DVD drive: Drive options > Extraction Method > Detect Read Features... button Analysis: Caching: No Accurate Stream: Yes C2 Error Info: Yes Drive options > Drive > Autodetect read command now button This automatically set Drive options > Drive > Drive read command: Read command MMC 1 I configured the Drive options based on the test: Drive options > Extraction Method > Secure modes > C2 error informations I left everything else at default, including EAC options > Normalize > (none) as I normalize (if needed) in my WAV editor. I'd be interested in sharing EACProfile.CFG files with other users of EAC to compare setups. Ripping 'Poland' ================ Then I began work on 'Poland'. I have three copies of 'Poland', Relativity 88561-8045-2, blue letters, spindle marked: 8045-2-1-1T '21'. (Note, this is one of only 3 versions that contain the full 'Poland' release as found on the gatefold LPs. -- the other 2 are Jive (DE) 8.28638, and a second Relativity release, also 88561-8045-2, but with brown letters, spindle marked: 88561-8045-2/1(V). Beside the color of the lettering, the blue lettered version has 3 indexes on disc 1 while the brown letter version has only 2, but the music is identical.) I ripped disc 2, copy #1, tracks 1 & 2 to: Poland 04 (EAC quality-99.9% crc-EB47996B) .wav Poland 05 (EAC quality-100% crc-4156DA60) .wav The percent of accuracy was reported at the end of the rip. Then I ripped disc 2, copy #2, track 1 to: Poland 04 (EAC quality-100% crc-EB47996B) .wav I did a binary comparison of the two copies of track 4 (i.e., 'Barbakane') and they were identical, so whatever correction EAC did to the first rip (quality-99.9%) was correct. I repeated this for disc 1. Across all 3 copies, I could not get (unlabeled) track 3, 'Rare Bird' to yield 100% accuracy, though they all yielded the same accuracy and the same CRC and they all binary compared the same. Then I checked the information on errors at the end of the rip and discovered that the error was merely that the index was not formatted properly when they were mastered. Oh well, no problem. I now have archival copies of both 'Poland' discs that are bit-perfect. Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .wav Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .wav Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .wav Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .wav Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .wav Conclusions =========== EAC is wonderful. What a powerful tool. Thank you all for recommending it. I will be sending Andre Wiethoff some beer money. 8-) It's really nice to get actual statistics on accuracy. BTW, EAC is not slow on my 650 MHz machine. I ran it in the mode where it does two passes: test, then copy. I had set it to secure mode, maximum accuracy. It tested and ripped both tracks of disc 2 in under 10 minutes at speeds between 6x and 13x. In my opinion, that's little time well spent to obtain bit-perfect, archival copies. Next, I'm going to download and try SHN to compress my bit-perfect copies. I will post my experiences. Ciao -- Mark PS: Chronology Listing for the Torwar Ice Stadium show ________________________________________________________________________ Torwar Ice Stadium, Warsaw [10 Dec 83] - EF+CF+JS ________________ __/ 'Poland' Suite \______________ 8 04:51 Barbakane 3 [3:17] (intro/atmosphere) [0:48] _________________ 1 Love on a Polish Train __/ 'Horizon' Suite \_____________ [10:42] 00:00 (atmosphere) (bridge 1-2) [2:26] 9 04:20 Horizon 1 [5:13] 2 Poland 2 [8:46] 09:33 (bridge 10-11) [4:34] (bridge 2-3) [0:37] 10 14:07 Horizon 2 [6:32] _________________ _________ __/ 'Tangent' Suite \_____________ __/ Encores \_____________________ 3 Tangent 1 [3:16] 11 Rarebird [3:41] (bridge 3-break) [?] ____________________ == break ========================= __/ Post Concert Edits \__________ (bridge break-4) [0:50] 12 Barbakane 3 [1:37] %9 4 Tangent 2 [5:03] (early fade) (bridge 4-5) [0:20] 13 Polish Dance [4:20] %5 5 Polish Dance [5:18] (shortened mid) ___________________ ______________________ __/ 'Barbakane' Suite \___________ __/ Post Concert Remixes \________ (atmosphere) [2:42] 14 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2 6 The Smuggler [5:52] [3:57] %&+8 (bridge 6-break) [?] 15 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.1 [4:43] == break ========================= &+8 (bridge break-7) [0:08] 16 Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2 [3:04] 7 Warsaw in the Sun [4:43] %14 (early fade) _______ __/ Notes \___________________________________________________________ Key: % excerpt; & remix; + overdub Seg 6 identified on 'Dream Roots Collection.' Segs 5, 7, and 11 identified on the 7' and 12' disks. Segs 1-4, and 8-10 given unofficial names to aid cross referencing. Announcement (trans): 'Good evening. State Artistic Agency, PAGART, and State Entertainment Enterprises, IMPART, welcome you to the concert of a group which is one of the creators of the style called electronic rock... Before You: Chris Franke, Johannes Schmoelling and Edgar Froese, or Tangerine Dream.' The show was supposedly interrupted five times by power failures, as indicated by some of the breaks above. Since many bridges were dubbed after the show to bridge over breaks caused by power failures, further time indexing to what was actually performed is not possible. Further, The actual order of segments is unknown. It has been reported that 'Rarebird' was an encore, which is supported by cheering both before and after. Cheering is also present following 'Polish Dance' and 'Horizon 2', signifying the probable end of sets. ___________________________________ __/ Recordings - AAA (original mixes) \_______________________________ LPx2 - Segs 1+2/3-5+11/6-8/9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' [1984] Jive (GB) HIP 22 [1984] Jive (FR) CA 292 66-226 [1984] Jive (GB) HIP X 22 [1984] Jive/RCA Ariola (CA) [1984] Jive (DE) VL 89284 JV 6616/2 (test pressing) [1984] Tonpress (PL) SX-T 64/65 [1984] Jive (DE) 6.28638 1/2 [1985] CNR Records (NL) 573.003/4 (test pressing) [1986] Rel. (US) EMC 8045 [1984] Jive (DE) 6.28638 X [1984] Jive/Messagerie Musicale (IT) ZL 6626 MC - Segs 1+2,3-5+11/6-8,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' [1984] Jive (GB) HIP C 22 [1986] Rel. (US) EMCT 8045 [1984] Jive (DE) 4.28638 [1997] Metal Mind (PL) CAST 0022 [1984] Jive/Messagerie Musicale (IT) ZK 6626 _______________________________________________ __/ Recordings - AAA (post concert edits/remixes) \___________________ 7' - Segs 5/14 as 'Polish Dance'/'Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2' [1984] Jive (GB) 74 [1985] Tonpress (PL) S-575 [1984] Jive (GB) P74B (Poland-shaped picture disk) 7' - Segs 13/14 as 'Polish Dance'/'Warsaw in the Sun, Pt.2' [1984] Jive (DE) 6.14 254 AC 12' - Segs 11,5/15+16 as 'Warsaw in the Sun' [1984] Jive (GB) T 74 [1984] CBS/Sony (JP) 12AP 3038 [1984] Jive (DE,GB) 6.20382 AE [1984] Carrere (FR) CA 6168.470 [1984] Jive/Teldec (DE) 12AP3038 [1984] Jive/Bertelsman (MX) SL-7139 ___________________________________ __/ Recordings - AAD (original mixes) \_______________________________ CDx2 - Segs 1+2,3-5,11,6-8,9+10 (5 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg-media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-4[02:50] 9-5[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-4[09:20] 10-5[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-3[00:08] 8-4[14:12] [1984] Jive (DE) 8.28638 [1988] Rel. (US) 88561-8045-2 (titles on discs in blue; spindle: 8045-2-1-1T '21') CDx2 - Segs 1+2,3-5+11,6-8,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-3[02:50] 9-4[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-3[09:20] 10-4[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-2[16:02] 8-3[14:12] [1988] Rel. (US) 88561-8045-2 (titles on discs in brown; spindle: 88561-8045-2/1(V)) CD - Segs 1+2,6+7,9+10 (3 media tracks) as 'Extracts from Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 6-2[02:50] 9-3[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 7-2[09:20] 10-3[14:07] [1984] Jive (GB) CHIP 22 [1984] Jive (DE) 8.26099 ZP (cover artwork tinted brown) [1988] Jive (JP) 32XB-221 [1984] Jive/Carriere (FR) CHIP 22 _______________________________________ __/ Recordings - ADD (post concert edits) \___________________________ CD - Segs 1+2,3-5+11,6+7+12,9+10 (4 media tracks) as 'Poland' Performance seg--media track index points: 1-1[00:48] 4-2[04:41] 6-3[02:50] 9-4[04:20] 2-1[13:42] 5-2[10:03] 7-3[09:20] 10-4[14:07] 3-2[00:25] 11-2[16:02] 12-3[14:12] [1996] Ess. (DE,GB) ESM 365 [1996] Sequel (US) 1044-2 [1996] Dureco (NL) ESM 365 ________________________________________________________________________ From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:52 am Subject: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de see subject for eac url _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31423 http://www.exactaudiocopy.de tei waz Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:52 am Subject: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de see subject for eac url _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:56 am Subject: eac from here: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de my apologies if I sent multi copies of soemthing similar to this--hotmail had some problems or this or if it's been answered already --t _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:57 am Subject: eac from ? here: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de my apologies if I sent multi copies of something similar to this--hotmail had some problems or if it's been answered already --t _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:34 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] > I guess Heiko could have contacted a few people privately and tried to figure > it > out on his own and then just present us with the tree rules and say 'here > it is, it's immutable, do it this way.' We'd have an equal number of people > generating headaches about how we should be able to do this or that. A big hello to all tree afficionados, I have been in 'deep lurk mode' since Monday, mostly because I wanted to see the development & feedback about the 'tree' and the direction it was going to take. I learned a lot about how a tree works (thanks to Joe and his invaluable efforts) , and the pro and cons of distributing the music via CD-Rs or by means of shn/mp3 etc. I'm glad to see that quite a considerable number of people have already signed up as branches or leaves, and that there is a lively discussion about the tree. Some may find it tiring to read all the emails which are related to this matter, but I think most of the topics are of considerable importance (again, my apologies to those people who aren't interested in the 'tree' at all, I'm the one who is to blame ~lol~) I know that *quality* is the most important issue (I guess no-one wants to have just another x-gen. recording with hiss, dropouts etc.), and at the moment I already have some helping hands who I'm sure can be trusted. In case all turns out as planned I will start sending out the first couple of CDRs in early February. I have a lot of very promising concerts from the 70s which are going to be remastered by some list members, but right now it's too early to include them in the first batch. Denoising & remastering old concert recordings is a hard job, it takes time and patience to do it right. In some cases I have to ask collectors for their permission to include their own TD concert recordings, it's necessary but also time consuming. I decided to cut down the number of CDRs which will get distributed in the first batch (**now: 10-12 cdr's**), and hope to give you the list of featured concerts sometime next week. I realized that for many of you it would be some sort of 'risky business' to invest money into something were you can't be sure of if it will meet your expectations. It's better to start on a small level, and in case the feedback is good I might consider to increase the number of CDRs for the 2nd round. Regards Heiko From: 'rtol008' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:10 am Subject: [tree] Yet once more, vote for SHN It seems that I started quite a debate about the format to be used. I just wanted to give some alternative ways to keep best quality. I have traded SHN format stuff (~15 CD:s of non-TD material) for a while and am satisfied. Creation of SHN files is fast and simple. It's like zipping files with Winzip. And you can get all back what you packed. I'm not so familiar with different CD burning programs. Is there some program available that gives you 100% disc-copy? If not then the only way to know that you have a 'perfect' copy from top tree down to the lowest leaf is to use data format. Is it WAV or SHN. Let's forget and bury the old idea of N+1th generation copies: that is possible! This SHN-converter also gives some kind of guarantee to verify that you have got unaltered copy. The originator of process gets the MD5-checksum files (automatically, pure text file, and small of size) and it's even possible that he/she put's them available on some web page so everyone can download them. Also these files are of cource included in the CDR:s. ----------------------------------------------------- Here's an example of the content of a checksum file: 8790f0a6396e517addfcc271c31726a7 *710813-d1t01.shn 6f57e0aa8f1ab481796a5bd6d14e3fef *710813-d1t02.shn 4d23abc4817e374e9975d36652f90b59 *710813-d1t03.shn aec3f3b2fd86823184f01ddc5e91a59b *710813-d1t04.shn bada24f36ec0312f324f6d12021e8377 *710813-d1t05.shn 8f989338062de6620448bfda42c1792b *710813-d1t06.shn 1320b497d948f930585833d3591b76b5 *710813-d1t07.shn 20c68365e057f341a58d84504183fb60 *710813-d1t08.shn 382ab6afe726727900663fab511ff519 *710813-d1t09.shn c3c6cbfb04507aebb360c4b8b562d093 *710813-d2t01.shn 0c279ee7f10d14dbdbdf646b5dcbde4f *710813-d2t02.shn 2e740394691b4b9e4938d465a6eabe32 *710813-d2t03.shn 25a084604da1422f9df3b05978ad232b *710813-d2t04.shn ------------------------------------------------------ Jep, I accept any format you select ... to listen to the the music itself is the most important to me ... but let's all think about the possibilities that we have, to keep the quality as good as possible. regards, timo Timo Astala Timo.astala@n... From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:44 am Subject: The tree and the future of Tangerine Dream I'll tell you why I'd like this tree effort to have a dignified, German name. == Personal opinion ahead == I think we may very well be at the end of an era. Jerome's pretty much his own musician now. In interview, Edgar has said that Jerome doesn't really care about the old music. If you listen to the first track of 'Seven Letters from Tibet', I think you may be hearing the future of Edgar Froese. Tangerine Dream's future? Personally, I'll be surprised if TD tours again. When you're pushing 60, your perspective changes and a lot of what was important when you were younger just melts away. Let's do something that will make Edgar, and ourselves proud, eh? Ciao -- Mark From: 'Dennis Nigbur' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:04 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? Please excuse my laziness, but being inundated with 90+ e-mails per day covering the technicalities of the new CD-R tree, I've really not had the time or the inclination to follow them all. Plus, non-tree content seems to get drowned a bit in the middle of it all. Could someone please send me a summative reply to answer these questions: 1) What will the tree contain? There seems to be some talk about older concert recordings... 2) Not having a CD-R burner, will it be possible for me to join as a 'leaf' as long as I pay for the blank media? 3) Who is going to oversee the tree? I remember joining the last tape tree on the old list and never seeing a single tape because the tree ground to a halt before my branch even received his copy. Thanks folks! Back to work... Dennis From: 'John Vertical' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:21 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? >Please excuse my laziness, but being inundated with 90+ e-mails per >day covering the technicalities of the new CD-R tree, I've really not had >the time or the inclination to follow them all. Plus, non-tree content >seems to get drowned a bit in the middle of it all. > I agree 100% with you. I'm not going to decide whether I'll participate in the tree before you've finally finished arguing what will the tree rules be... and the rates you're generating text with are really starting to dig up my nerve. John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31431 [tree] What's this all about? Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31445 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31525 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Owens, James Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31546 Re: [tree] What's this all about? Yensen, Stephen Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:48 am Subject: [tree] What's this all about? Dennis: Want to learn about the tree? Go to: http://www.tadream.net/tree John: Don't want to see tree discussion? 1 - Sort your email by subject 2 - Select all email beginning with [tree] 3 - Hit delete key Appologies, but this is a most important project and its set up requires communication. This list is the channel. It will subside soon. Ciao -- Mark From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 12:37 pm Subject: SHN experiences Hello All. Here are my experiences with SHN. Contents ======== Installation Configuration Operation Conclusion: 54% compression Installation ============ As suggested by Craig Chambers (Subject: [tadream] RE: SHN, Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:27:01 -0500) I went to http://etree.org/mkw.html and downloaded the following: mkw-mfc42.exe mkwact097b1.exe The first contains Microsoft Foundation Class run time routines which must be installed first (unless you are running Win2K, in which case they already exist on your system), and the second is the actual encoders and decoders. (There is more here than just WAV-to-SHN. There is also WAV-to-MKW, WAV-to-MP3, SHN-to-WAV, MKW-to-WAV, and MP3-to-WAV.) As I usually do, on download, I simultaneously renamed the two files to: install_mkwACT_0.97-beta.1_step.1_(mkw-mfc42).exe install_mkwACT_0.97-beta.1_step.2_(mkwact097b1).exe so that I'll know what they are in the future should I need to reinstall. I ran both installers and was ready to go. When I clicked on Start > Programs > mkw Audio Compression Toolkit > mkw Audio Compression Tool the program started and the toolkit appeared. Configuration ============= I made this change to the default configuration: Options > File Options > Output directory for when input is on a fixed disk drive ... I pushed the 'Same as input' button. Options > File Options > Delete input files after lossless (MKW or SHN) processing ... I unchecked this because I didn't want to lose anything. The toolkit then just sat there waiting for me to drop a file on it. Operation ========= Per the instructions in the toolkit window, I held down the shift key as I dragged and dropped Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.wav (size: 90.566 M-byte) onto the tool. Lickety split, 3 additional files appeared in the directory where the WAV file is domiciled: MAKE100.BAT_.md5 (size: 77 bytes) Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn (size: 41.504 M-bytes) Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.skt (size: 70 k-bytes) I will address each file: MAKE100.BAT_.md5 ---------------- This is the checksum file. Its contents are: 4c078dfd3b046a5caac5d06a790d98cf *Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn Curiousity: The toolkit takes the name of whatever '.txt' file you may have and uses that for the name of the '.md5' file it creates -- in this case, I had a file named 'MAKE100.BAT_.TXT' in the directory, so the toolkit used that name. I don't know why the toolkit's author chose to do this, but it doesn't do any harm. (I suppose I'll find out later that this is a handy thing.) Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn ----------------------------------------- This is the 'shortened' (SHN) file. As you can see, it is only 46% of the size of the original (54% compression). Pretty impressive, I'd say! Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.skt ----------------------------------------- According to the setup dialog (Options > Shorten...) this is the seek table file. I don't know what that is right now. Oh well. Next I tried expanding the SNM file so I can compare it to the original. After making a safty copy of my original WAV file, I dropped Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.shn onto the toolkit. The toolkit saved my original file as Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.wav.bak and created a new Tangerine.Dream_Vision.Quest.(suite)_.wav. I did a binary comparison with the original and they matched, perfectly. Conclusion: 54% compression =========================== At least for this first experiment, WAV-to-SHN and SHN-to-WAV worked perfectly and SHN achieved a 54%, lossless compression. Hallelujah !! In the future I will try the other tools. I already use the Blade MP3 encoder, but I will try this .dll-based version to see if it is as good. I may also convert some MP3s to WAV using the toolkit -- something I heretofore have not been able to do. Overall this is a Godsend. As I wrote in an earlier posting, ZIP achieves only about 6% compression on WAV files. How SHN works must be a wonder. Ciao, and I hope you've found this useful -- Mark From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:09 pm Subject: SHN experiences, part 2 I took the 5 WAV files I ripped from 'Poland' (see, subject: 'EAC experiences') and compressed them. Input files: 239,421,884 Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .wav 168,144,524 Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .wav 42,618,284 Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .wav 191,307,020 Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .wav 95,989,868 Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .wav =========== 737,481,580 Output files: 135,503,193 Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .shn 93,065,621 Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .shn 26,416,409 Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .shn 102,039,069 Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .shn 46,272,213 Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .shn 187,132 Poland 01 (EAC crc-C47005B9) .skt 131,452 Poland 02 (EAC crc-60858ED6) .skt 33,372 Poland 03 (EAC crc-136C2BFA) .skt 149,532 Poland 04 (EAC crc-EB47996B) .skt 75,052 Poland 05 (EAC crc-4156DA60) .skt =========== 403,873,045 Compressed size: 54.8% Compression: 45.2% Based on this, I'd say we can safely count on putting 128 minutes of music onto a single 74 minute CDR, with a bit to spare. This would save the trunk and limbs and branches quite a few discs with no loss in fidelity. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31441 Re: SHN experiences, part 2 cbc_trooper Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31444 Re: SHN experiences, part 2 Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: 'Kevin Earley' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:07 pm Subject: [tree]SHN etc. I suggest that the use of the WAV format for the trunk of the tree would probably easier than the use of the SHN format. It should make life easier (K.I.S.S.) because 1 WAV disc corresponds to 1 audio disc. The downside is that each branch would need to make an audio copy for themselves for use on their CD Players. The advantage is that there is no risk of accidentally introducing errors from the Audio Extraction. An alternative would be to 'mandate' the use of programs like EAC to minimize the risk of any Audio Extraction errors. Just my two cents. Mark F.: IIRC the EAC documentation recommends that you take your extracted audio files and burn an audio CD with them. Then use EAC to extract from the new CDR and compare with the source files. Something to do with CD offsets that can introduce errors in either the extraction or the burning, I believe. Kevin Earley np: em:t - 1197 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31435 [tree]SHN etc. Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31446 Re: [tree]SHN etc. Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31454 Re: [tree]SHN etc. Thenite0wl@a... Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:10 pm Subject: [tree]SHN etc. Kevin Earley wrote: > -snip- > Mark F.: > IIRC the EAC documentation recommends that you take your extracted audio > files and burn an audio CD with them. Then use EAC to extract from the new > CDR and compare with the source files. Something to do with CD offsets that > can introduce errors in either the extraction or the burning, I believe. Thanks, Keven. That's good advice for those who are going to use redbook audio format in branches. For we who are going to use SHN, there's no problem. Unlike redbook, which is stream based, SHN (and WAV) is file based, so there is no extraction and much smaller chance for error -- no greater than for any other file, and which is covered by MD5 checksums in any event. If an error is found (the checksum is wrong), all a person need do is go back one branch to get a good copy. With redbook, you don't even know if there is an error, TTBOMK. Ciao -- Mark (who didn't know about SHN until a couple of days ago but has become a believer) From: scfeldman@j... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:00 am Subject: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak writes: >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. >Ciao -- Mark -- Steven Feldman , webmaster for the Chang Cheh website at http://changcheh.0catch.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31438 Re: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connectio Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31440 Re: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connectio Heiko Heerssen Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31449 Re: The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connectio 3N Wed 1/16/2002 4 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER Someone asked me off list, what the heck are you trading? Well I traded 2 disk for every one I backed up for a friend. He needed his sound recording system backed up with all the originals he had. He did not have a system to do a external backup but audio only. He wanted all his software and settings backed up as well. Was a all weekend job. After the un-named person asked, I thought what they was trying to tell me. It sounded like I was pirating. Far from it. I seldom back up a audio disk that I own. Which I been thinking a lot lately after reading a post about cd thief. Sorry if I alarmed any others out there. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Admin' To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN, WAV, MP3 & WHATEVER > Well this much I do know. > 1. I am sure I will be told what disks I will get to make the leaves from. > 2. I am sure the leaves will tell me what format they want. > 3. I am almost sure I will be looking around for the various programs to > make these copies as requested. > 4. My bottom line to me is, I will hear TD material that I have never heard > before and may never if it wasn't for this tree. > So you can debate the format till a certain place freezes over, still I wait > knowing that I will soon hear what I have not before. > > dale > > My disks of choice Joe is Maxell, Yamaha and Memorex. I would kill if I had > to use TDK. Why? Everytime I use a TDK I have to cut the speed down to half > the rated (8 speed records at 4 and on). I do own nearly 150 TDK disks now > so I believe I have some experience here when I say, TDK does not burn well > on my CDRecorder. Why do I have some many? Trade. So if you want to poke > some fun at me, send me a TDK disk. It is my lot in life you know! > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection scfeldman@j... wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak > writes: > > >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' > >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. Eh? Produce the proof, dear Steven. From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:32 pm Subject: Digesting a Digest... Mark said: > The only really good sampler to use is an outboard sampler, not a > card in a PC. > Take me word for it, use only an outboard sampler. If I understand, Heiko is using a standalone burner, which is the next best thing to an outboard A/D.... > If doing a rip, please use only DAE (direct audio extraction), > not CDR audio output sampling. If your CD does not support DAE, > then be a leaf, not a branch. Someone mentioned EAC, which should be used if you are a branch...I know it appears that we are trying to impose a whole lot of crap on people, but it is to try and ensure that the quality stays with the discs that reach the furtherest leaves. EAC may take a long time to rip if the media is damaged or the data is corrupt...but that is the benefit of EAC. Anytime I have a disc that I try to rip and EAC decides to go at 0.1x or whatever, I always burn a *new* copy for myself using grade A media. Trust me, media matters! Which leads to- The honorable Kevin J. spoke thusly: > If I'm not mistaken, all of these discs mentioned above are made in Taiwan > and are considered grade 'B' media. Having said that, my choice > of disc is > FUJI. Made in Japan and grade 'A'. > I (nor Kevin, I'm sure) want to sound like 'elitists', and I will not impose my beliefs or preferences on anyone, but I do have some experience and offer these references or ideas for you to use when making decisions. Just put it down as something to consider, then weigh it against what is important to you. Media does matter! All of the media thus far listed generally have the same manufacturer (RITEK) in Taiwan, that 'brands' the media under the names Memorex, Memtek, Sony, Maxell, TDK (except for 'Certified Plus'), Imation, Verbatim, Office Depot Brand, PNY, OfficeMax brand, as well as, most 'unbranded' cdr media. These are all considered 'low' quality, with the primary reason based on dye-type (which effects life span), cdr writer compatability, quality control (percent coasters per unit volume) and most importantly, the ability to be read when ripping without introducing errors. It is not a bias against any one of these, as I have tried most and have been mostly happy with the burn, but when I go back and try to rip a copy for a trade, I see lots of errors. Also, if you have cdr's from several years, chances are with the 'cheap' or 'low' quality media, it begins to bronze and will eventually not play and will be un-retrievable. This is all based on my experience and of course your mileage may vary... But, that said, there are several brands of media that are considered high quality...these are namely the ones manufactured in Japan (and USA). I don't know whether it is the different dyes used or the more stringent quality control of the Japanese plants, but it does make a difference. The major manufacurers are Taiyo-Yuden and Mitsui. T-Y manufactures for the 'branded' HP, Fuji and some TDK's (if specifically stated 'made in Japan')...Mitsui's and T-Y's can be purchased on many sites on the web. Prices are typically a 'little' more expensive for a T-Y or Mitsui manufactured disc, but we are talking on the order of a few cents per disc. I recently stocked up on Fuji's from Circuit City in the US for $9.99 (after rebates) for a spindle of 50. Which is actually less expensive than the 'cheap' brands. But, like I said, it is *your* preference whether you want to take chances with *your* music...I personally prefer to spend a few more cents per disc and have documented quality. I usually will offer with my trade partners to burn on unbranded media if that is what they have, since I keep several brands 'in stock'. I would much rather do all my trading in HP/Fuji's but since I will have to reburn my personal copy to a different brand if I get a Verbatim/Maxell/etc., I think it is fair...I give my trade friends a choice. HP/Fuji (high quality) or Made in Taiwan (all the same...lower quality). So you think I am anal?? :-) I just would rather invest a little more now than alot later! Plus I want my music to last to the point that my kids are digging through my 'stuff' after I am gone and trying to decide which items head to the dump...<>...'...what in the HELL is this music??!!' Robert G. said: > You folks amaze me beyond belief. All these different formats > and ways to > burn, people wanting to rip the cd to wav to burn back or use > mp3. WTF?????? > I have one word for you folks: KISS > ...and now for Robert, I think the intention is to give some degree of choice in how you want it and what you do with it...nobody is trying to impose anything on anyone. We are just giving options to folks that are looking for different things...it all depends on what is valuable to you and what you are looking for. BTW, how's the weather down there?...it is still cold in ATL! Craig Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31442 Re: Digesting a Digest... Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 2:41 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection > > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > Eh? Produce the proof, dear Steven. From a 1982 Australian radio interview: Interviewer: 'Did the name Tangerine Dream originated from the Beatles' song 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds?' Edgar: 'That's correct' But I also remember another interview (1987, in German language) where Edgar stated that the name 'Tangerine Dream' had nothing to do with the Beatles song at all. For him the word 'Tangerine' (or orange-coloured) had a special meaning to him which he didn't want to reveal...it all sounded very vague. Heiko From: 'cbc_trooper' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:05 pm Subject: Re: SHN experiences, part 2 Mark...the .skt files are called 'seek' files and really only useful if you are playing .shn files in WinAmp on the PC. Excellent report to the group btw! HTH Craig From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Digesting a Digest... 'C. Chambers' wrote: > > Mark said: > > > The only really good sampler to use is an outboard sampler, not a > > card in a PC. > > > Take me word for it, use only an outboard sampler. > > If I understand, Heiko is using a standalone burner, which is the next best > thing to an outboard A/D.... I was referring to a sampler: The device that converts audio to digital. Heiko's standalone burner is for making copies of CDs and CDRs that are already digital -- as opposed to copying with a computer. Heiko told me he doesn't do the sampling, but has friends do it for him. My point was that the samplers found on computer sound cards are not as good, and even high quality ones (some of the Turtle Beach units for example), suffer from noise introduced inside the computer case that the card cannot control. > > If doing a rip, please use only DAE (direct audio extraction), > > not CDR audio output sampling. If your CD does not support DAE, > > then be a leaf, not a branch. > > Someone mentioned EAC, which should be used if you are a branch...I know it > appears that we are trying to impose a whole lot of crap on people, but it > is to try and ensure that the quality stays with the discs that reach the > furtherest leaves. I just wrote a blurb on EAC (see, subject: EAC experiences). I'd never used it before, but it's dead simple. The point of using SHN (or WAV) as the branch media is that EAC would not be needed, but you are right that if redbook audio is used in a branch, it is probably better to rip it with EAC and burn than to make a dup -- at least, I think that's what you are saying. That way you will know whether there are errors. Of course, you could dup and then rip both the dup and the original and compare them, but that is twice the work. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:33 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Voting for a name -- 'Marmalade skies' I could care less about the (non)connection to the beatles. I think 'Marmalade Skies' is cool because (if you happen to know the lyrics) your brain makes an immediate connection to 'Tangerine Trees'. This is a 'Tree', and for 'Tangerine' Dream music. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Filipak [mailto:filipak@e...] > What ?? Please. Let's not perpetuate this mythical connection > with The Beatles. It simply doesn't exist. From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: SHN experiences, part 2 cbc_trooper wrote: > > Mark...the .skt files are called 'seek' files and really only useful > if you are playing .shn files in WinAmp on the PC. > > Excellent report to the group btw! Ah! Okay, that makes sense... 'seek'. Thanks for the complement. I wanted to show that EAC and SHN could be used by a novice without any problems as I felt some folks were a little shy of using them. I was amazed by EAC as it WAS fast for me (good quality CDs though -- I take care of them) and it ripped using DAE at higher speeds than even AudioCatalyst could achieve. EAC ripped at up to 13x whereas AudioCatalyst stayed below 8x because it encountered too many errors. BTW, I'm using a no-name DVD-ROM player. I'm impressed with both EAC and SHN, and they are both freeware. Ciao -- Mark From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:04 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Nigbur > 1) What will the tree contain? There seems to be some talk > about older concert recordings... see the updated concert 'pool' at http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#content > 2) Not having a CD-R burner, will it be possible for me to > join as a 'leaf' as long as I pay for the blank media? Absolutely. see http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#how > 3) Who is going to oversee the tree? I remember joining the last tape > tree on the old list and never seeing a single tape because the tree > ground to a halt before my branch even received his copy. I have a table of participants (see links) and on Feb 1, we will design and post the tree branch/leaf structure. We have a de facto 'Tree Structure Committee', and we're discussing the structure offlist, but it really isn't that complicated (list already sorted by geography). The tree diagram will be posted as soon as the structure is established, and on it I will be recording who all has received their copies from their branches on the web page. The entire tree will be monitored publicly (well, within our community), so I guess you could say that we are ALL going to oversee the tree. Due to this public visibility and accountability, if it becomes obvious that a branch is stuck, can't reproduce, whatever, we will be able to reroute the downline to someone else easily. We have a surplus of participants that are willing to branch, so some of these people will end up being leaves. They will be 'reserve branches' if needed, for example if a branch needs to be grafted. In other words, if you have committed to be a branch, and your computer dies before you complete your obligation, we can easily shift your branch duties to one of the reserve branches. And as for the confusion about all this format stuff, don't worry about it; trust us! ;-) We have it under control. It will all be clear Feb 1. From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:25 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree]SHN etc. jeez, you guys. All this talk of extraction and stuff... Complaints about it being too complicated... I'm just going to take my stack of 10-12 CDs, run DiscJuggler, making straight copy after copy until I'm done, and mail them off. What's so complicated about that? Extraction schmaction. bleah. From: 'tei waz' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:09 pm Subject: [tree] names well someone not on this list suggest a name in German for the tree Schnepfen Dreck Ok, so you may have spilt your coffee or not, but it does reflect the continuous snip hunt for HQ TD shows and is considered a tasty treat eventhough it may not be to everyone's liking...... --T OK, so maybe I wasn't serious :) _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:22 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] names A rose is a rose by .. Call the tree one thing, leave off the art work or just have two copies of art work, one with and one without, for those who wish to name it what ever they will. Just make those masters and get them out. Heck you get bent out of shape on a tree name then perhaps you got more things to worry about than the tree. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'tei waz' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:09 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] names > well someone not on this list suggest a name in German for the tree > > Schnepfen Dreck > > > Ok, so you may have spilt your coffee or not, but it does reflect the > continuous snip hunt for HQ TD shows and is considered a tasty treat > eventhough it may not be to everyone's liking...... > > --T OK, so maybe I wasn't serious :) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: '3N' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection HeY! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak > writes: > > >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' > >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > >Ciao -- Mark > > -- Steven Feldman , > webmaster for the Chang Cheh website > at http://changcheh.0catch.com > Yes, Mark has right, Stev has right, but finally _I_ have right - the Eddy's band name is directly from the title of record from band of sixtieth years band named Caleidoscope. HaHaHaHA, mniam, mniam Regards JerzyK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Sciaga, szkola, matura, STUDIA... >>> http://studia.interia.pl/ From: scfeldman@j... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:23 pm Subject: Alleged Lennon Comments on 'Lucy in the Sky' Hi All, With a google search on lucy sky diamonds tangerine dream, I found at http://www.johnlennon.it/thouart_alice_2_eng.htm : |'The images of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds were from Alice |in Wonderland. It was Alice in the boat. She is buying an |egg and it turns into Humpty Dumpty. The woman serving in |the shop turns into a sheep and the next minute they are |rowing in a rowing boat somewhere and I was visualizing |that. Picture yourself in a boat on a river with tangerine |dream and marmalade sky. There was also the image of the |female who would someday come save me -- a girl with |kaleidoscope eyes who would come out of the sky. It turned |out to be Yoko, though I hadn't met Yoko yet. So maybe it |should be Yoko in the Sky with Diamonds | |John Lennon Is the mention of 'tangerine dream' above a typo, I wonder?!?!?! There is an e-mail contact address given as mailto:thouart@t... at the top right of the page. At any rate, there is also the following, taken from http://www.upv.es/~ecabrera/pepper/article.html : |Julian Lennon, Johns son, had painted a picture of his |schoolmate Lucy, and he showed the picture to his father |after school one day. The picture intrigued John, and he |inquired after the title. Julian said, 'Its Lucy, in the |sky, with diamonds.' The title awakened Johns imagination |and prompted him to write the now-famous song (Turner 122). [the footnote's source is:] Turner, Steve. A Hard Day's Write. Harper Collins: New York, 1994. So, it seems that John Lennon's mouth (if not his memory) could be as contradictory as Edgar's. ;) Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: scfeldman@j... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:51 pm Subject: Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:33:04 -0500 Joe Shoults writes: >I think 'Marmalade Skies' is cool because (if you happen to >know the lyrics) your brain makes an immediate connection to >'Tangerine Trees'. This is a 'Tree', and for 'Tangerine' >Dream music. Yow! I hadn't thought it all out quite like that; you're right! Brilliant! :) Steven Feldman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31452 Re: Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 6:55 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' Yes, and Fish Heads was a wonderful song too. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:51 AM Subject: [tadream] Re Joe's rationale for 'Marmalade skies' > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:33:04 -0500 Joe Shoults > writes: > > >I think 'Marmalade Skies' is cool because (if you happen to > >know the lyrics) your brain makes an immediate connection to > >'Tangerine Trees'. This is a 'Tree', and for 'Tangerine' > >Dream music. > > Yow! I hadn't thought it all out quite like that; > you're right! Brilliant! :) > > Steven Feldman > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Craig Cordrey' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:22 pm Subject: RE: [tree] Red Book vs SHN Joe, Thanks for the feedback / clarification. Being on Digest (and not reading the mails until I get back home at night) I tend to be a bit behind and that was proved. The digest containing your mail to me also had previous mail stating that Red Book would be the standard format. Thanks for taking the time to clarify, especially at this hectic stage. All the best, Craig Cordrey From: Thenite0wl@a... Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:26 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree]SHN etc. Hi,all... Might I be allowed to be a leaf on same tree, please..? Regards Paul From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:25 pm Subject: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read I'll try to summarize this so everyone understands why this subject is important to some people, like me. POOR ==== CD-audio to redbook - Analog disc copy using audio out of CD-ROM - Sound card errors. - Computer noise corrupts transfer. - No error information. - Leaves get the very worst copies. - Copying at more than 1x makes copies much worse. FAIR ==== redbook to redbook - Digital disc copy using DAE (direct audio extraction) - Prone to errors that get worse with each copy. - Little or no error information. - Leaves get the worst copies. - Copying at more than 1x makes copies even worse. BETTER ====== EAC (Exact Audio Copy) - 2 step process 1 - Rip WAV from redbook. - Using EAC you get some error information. - Rip at fairly high speed. 2 - Then, burn WAV back to redbook. BEST ==== SHN - like ZIP for audio - 1 step process - Burn direct to redbook - no ripping required. - Read SHN at very high speed, no problem. - Know when errors occur and how bad they are. - Fix errors before they propagate towards the leaves. - Every gets best quality possible, braches _and_ leaves. I downloaded EAC and SHN last night and used it right away -- very successfully. Read these reports (I spent a lot of time writing them): Subject: '[tadream] EAC experiences' Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:07:05 -0500 Subject: '[tadream] SHN experiences' Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:37:35 -0500 Subject: '[tadream] SHN experiences, part 2' Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:09:14 -0500 I'll send you the configuration files for these tools so you don't have to think about it. These tools are easy to use. It's drag & drop, done -- as easy as sending email. What's the big deal? -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31456 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Administrator for kay-net.com Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB 31461 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31475 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Robert Grabowsky Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31477 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31500 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Matthew Sawyer Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31549 Re: [tree] regarding this tree TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31552 Re: regarding this tree TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31579 Re: [tree] regarding this tree ftsmythe Sat 1/19/2002 4 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:37 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read >>It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? next door Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:46 pm Subject: CDR recommendations How could I forget about Mitsui? Since the first time I heard about CDRs, I've heard Mitsui was the best media. It certainly still is one of the best, however it's the most expensive where I buy. But I'll use those for this tree. Now that it has been mentioned, I can't even see where the latest batch of Samsung CDs I bought (20) was made... hah! I think I'm being cheap... Since I now earn my own money, I could buy only Mitsui... I did use only Mistui some time ago, but it got quite expensive, and Kodak and TDK were significantly cheaper... I've rambled too much already. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31460 Re: CDR recommendations Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB 31463 Re: CDR recommendations Michael Fox Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:56 pm Subject: [tree] Why branches should want SHN You're a branch supplying 5 lower branches. What would you rather do: - rip copy 5 redbook discs at 1x or 2x, or - file copy 5 SHN discs at 40x? Your choise. -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31519 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31521 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31523 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31527 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31522 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31567 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Joe Shoults Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31569 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Joe Shoults Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:19 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please rea d > -----Original Message----- > SHN - like ZIP for audio - 1 step process > - Burn direct to redbook - no ripping required. > These tools are easy to use. It's drag & drop, done aha. this 'shn-direct-to-redbook' is news to me! If it really is that simple, then I might just forget about the redbook after all and just burn all from shn. Do I have to copy the shn files to my hard drive, then burn from there, or will it read from the shn CD to cache the data, then prompt you to insert the blank CD? > I'll send you the configuration files for these tools so you > don't have to think about it. Please upload them to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files Thx, Joe From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] CDR recommendations I have Mitsui, no label, Japan, and TDK, with label, Japan. I have tons of them. Both seem good to me. Don't know about Taiwan made CDRs. Heard they are not as good. -- Mark Gustavo Jobim wrote: > > How could I forget about Mitsui? Since the first time I heard about CDRs, I've heard Mitsui was the best media. It certainly still is one of the best, however it's the most expensive where I buy. But I'll use those for this tree. > > Now that it has been mentioned, I can't even see where the latest batch of Samsung CDs I bought (20) was made... hah! > > I think I'm being cheap... Since I now earn my own money, I could buy only Mitsui... I did use only Mistui some time ago, but it got quite expensive, and Kodak and TDK were significantly cheaper... I've rambled too much already. > Gustavo Jobim > gustavojobim@n... > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31463 Re: CDR recommendations Michael Fox Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:18 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read Joe Shoults wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > SHN - like ZIP for audio - 1 step process > > - Burn direct to redbook - no ripping required. > > These tools are easy to use. It's drag & drop, done > > aha. this 'shn-direct-to-redbook' is news to me! > > If it really is that simple, then I might just forget about the redbook > after all and just burn all from shn. > > Do I have to copy the shn files to my hard drive, then burn from there, or > will it read from the shn CD to cache the data, then prompt you to insert > the blank CD? I don't know whether there are tools to cache SHN. Point is: You can read them into your computer at 40x. They are files, not jittery streams like redbook. When something is cached, it's cached on the hard disk. Read files to hard disk - cache to hard disk. What's the difference? Read my next post, 'Why branches should want SHN' (already posted). Doing a SHN copy is literally drag-n-drop. Dead easy, and at full speed because you are copying files. The SHNs are converted to WAV, then to redbook only at the tips of the branches. Leaves get perfect copies -- no accumulated errors along the way. Everybody is very happy. The SHNers are right. It is the way to go. > > I'll send you the configuration files for these tools so you > > don't have to think about it. > > Please upload them to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tadream/files Okay. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31475 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea Robert Grabowsky Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31477 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'Paul Fellows' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:21 pm Subject: Re : [tadream] tree Hi all, 99 messages in 1 day is a bit much, could this discussion be cut down in any way or redirected to more specific people rather than to the list? Sorry to be unsociable, it's just that work-related messages are in danger of disappearing under the deluge with that many messages a day... Paul Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31464 Re: Re : [tadream] tree Joe Shoults Wed 1/16/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] CDR recommendations At 04:07 PM 01/16/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I have Mitsui, no label, Japan, and TDK, with label, Japan. I have tons of >them. Both seem good to me. Don't know about Taiwan made CDRs. Heard they >are not as good. -- Mark This seems to be the general consensus on other lists I'm on. I know I saw some little program that would tell you this when you popped a blank in. If I find the reference, I'll post it. Most of the time, the info can be found on the outside of the package somewhere. Mike From: Joe Shoults Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:00 pm Subject: RE: Re : [tadream] tree the volume will die down after a bit, I'm sure. but in the meantime, you can do the following: 1) alter the way you recieve mails from the list a) switch to digest mode - click here: mailto:tadream-digest@yahoogroups.com b) turn all mail off - click here: mailto:tadream-nomail@yahoogroups.com c) turn delivery back to normal (individual message) mode - click here: mailto:tadream-normal@yahoogroups.com 2) Simply delete anything with 'tree' in the subject 3) use your e-mail client to filter anything with 'tree' in the subject > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Fellows [mailto:pfellows@c...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:22 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re : [tadream] tree > > > Hi all, > > 99 messages in 1 day is a bit much, could this discussion be > cut down in any > way or redirected to more specific people rather than to the list? > > Sorry to be unsociable, it's just that work-related messages > are in danger > of disappearing under the deluge with that many messages a day... > > Paul > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree Paul has brought a very good point. While the info given for the tree has been fruitful, it should be coming to a head. 99+ messages a day is a bit too much. Perhaps some personal post then a consensus post on the group? AKA Lobby... Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31466 Relayed Phases Steve Wed 1/16/2002 2 KB From: 'Steve' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 9:50 pm Subject: Relayed Phases Does anyone know the story behind this one? Steve www.craftman.co.uk www.rotties-r-us.co.uk From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree There have been 43 messages (counting yours) since midnight US Eastern Standard Time. This message makes 44. 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > > Paul has brought a very good point. While the info given for the tree has > been fruitful, it should be coming to a head. 99+ messages a day is a bit > too much. Perhaps some personal post then a consensus post on the group? AKA > Lobby... > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: '3N' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] All true about Torwar shows ;)) Hello Mark and all! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Filipak To: Tadream Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: [tadream] EAC experiences ThanX for you big work, but: > The show was supposedly interrupted five times by power failures, as > indicated by some of the breaks above. It's really??? From whwere do you know about this?? I was 12dec83 on both shows in warsaw'sTorwar (I have they for this day in my tape, and now cdr-, archive) but I hear this for first time!!! I see that Warsaws concert is today a big legend. > Since many bridges were dubbed > after the show to bridge over breaks caused by power failures, further > time indexing to what was actually performed is not possible. Very interesting, but you're wrong. Most of the bridges on official release was played on 'real' hands, but most of the sequences look from further reediting in AmberStudio in early84 by Franke/Schmoelling (I have official interview with Froese (december84) in this he that said!). > Further, > The actual order of segments is unknown. Oh, nooo! It's of course known. The whole first analog record (without RareBird, wich was the last encore on second show) is exactly adequate to the actual order of first part of both shows. The second analog record is very schuffling in order and, I'm convinced, it wasn't played on warsaws concerts. Some parts (like about half part of Barbakene) I heard for first time only on official release (Tonpress84) and others was played on Torwar totally different from the official record. Why? I don't know but certainly not from 'energy breaks', which wasn't there ;)))). And maybe members played with the gloves on hands??? It's a big joke. Frost? Of course, it was in december, and it was about -3 celsjus... outside, no more. In hall temperature was normal. All the fictitious history. Nothing more. End. Dot. regards from 'frozen' poland JerzyK ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Czy widziales juz najnowsze wiadomosci? >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31469 Re: All true about Torwar shows ;)) Mark Filipak Wed 1/16/2002 4 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:34 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] All true about Torwar shows ;)) Where have you been all my (tadream) life !!!!!! I want it all. All the information you can give me. 3N wrote: > > Hello Mark and all! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Filipak > To: Tadream > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:07 AM > Subject: [tadream] EAC experiences > > ThanX for you big work, but: > > > The show was supposedly interrupted five times by power failures, as > > indicated by some of the breaks above. > > It's really??? From whwere do you know about this?? What I was told by folks in Poland. It's not correct? > I was 12dec83 on both shows in warsaw'sTorwar THERE WERE TWO SHOWS(?)!! > (I have they for this day in > my tape, and now cdr-, archive) but I hear this for first time!!! I see that > Warsaws concert is today a big legend. On CDR, eh? Care to make a copy? I don't care about quality, just timing. (Well, that's a lie. I love this show.) I wish my grandfather had stayed in Poland for this show. > > Since many bridges were dubbed > > after the show to bridge over breaks caused by power failures, further > > time indexing to what was actually performed is not possible. > > Very interesting, but you're wrong. Ho-boy! > Most of the bridges on official release > was played on 'real' hands, but most of the sequences look from further > reediting in AmberStudio in early84 by Franke/Schmoelling (I have official > interview with Froese (december84) in this he that said!). Jerzy!! You can be very helpful to all dreamers! > > Further, > > The actual order of segments is unknown. > > Oh, nooo! It's of course known. The whole first analog record (without > RareBird, wich was the last encore on second show) is exactly adequate to > the actual order of first part of both shows. The second analog record is > very schuffling in order and, I'm convinced, it wasn't played on warsaws > concerts. Some parts (like about half part of Barbakene) I heard for first > time only on official release (Tonpress84) and others was played on Torwar > totally different from the official record. Why? I don't know but certainly > not from 'energy breaks', which wasn't there ;)))). If you can even send me a tape, I could get timing and sequence from it. A CDR would be better/easier as I could read the counter (directly in seconds). > And maybe members played with the gloves on hands??? It's a big joke. Frost? > Of course, it was in december, and it was about -3 celsjus... outside, no > more. In hall temperature was normal. All the fictitious history. Nothing > more. End. Dot. Well I'll be damned. You wouldn't believe the number of hours I spent working out the ~crap~ I have... What about the translation? > regards from 'frozen' poland > JerzyK Ciao and regards from frozen Ohio -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: 'PERGAMON' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:38 pm Subject: Tree-name Name for the tree......................Why not: DOT.....................Dream Of Tapes.............. =o)............hehe.........just a suggestion Jan From: Mark Filipak Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:55 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Traummeister How about Traummeister? -- Mark PERGAMON wrote: > > Name for the tree......................Why not: > > DOT.....................Dream Of Tapes.............. > > =o)............hehe.........just a suggestion > > Jan -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? From: 'vic rek' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 11:58 pm Subject: [tadream] [tree] KISS I am going to make some possibly ignorant statements here - but I'm not asking to be corrected. Based on all the e-mail I've read on this subject and all the pros and cons, I believe many are missing one simple point (like Bob said) KISS - Keep It Simple and Stupid. The current discussion and scope of effort will lead to a failure of this effort. I have never seen so much discussion on losing data bits that most likely you'll never hear anyway. I have never seen so many opinions about which CD-Rs brands from which country to use. Are we trying to creat the perfect state-of-the-art CD or are we trying to share music amongst the fans? Here are Vic's KISS rules: Set up a simple tree structure. Send out the music and make the artwork downloadable. And forget it. Every extra step (or rule) you add to the process (no matter how trivial you may feel it is) will add to the probability of failure. Simple questions (Q) and answers (A) to technical problems that may arise: Q1a: If I get a CD from a branch that has a bit error in it, what should I do A: Nothing. Q1b: But my copy must be digitally perfect! A: Find someone who has the missing bit (assuming the original was 'perfect'). Q2: I do not like the CD media that was sent to me. A: Make another copy for yourself on your preferred media. Q3: Why is Vic being technically ignorant. A: So some people on this list would recongize the human element of this effort. Remember the days of the tape trees when the benefit of being higher in the tree was to get a better copy? What is the benefit now for the trunk? Good Samaritan status I guess. :-) BTW, I'm sorry, but sending blank CD-Rs in the mail is STUPID (not part of the KISS principle). So how do you reimburse your branch without sending money? Oh, that's right, CD-Rs & postage are not money - sorry. Some concerns I have: - Is Heiko going to supply approximately 46 concerts to the list subscribers with most concerts being double CD-Rs? How many discs total will that be Heiko? And how many CD-Rs will you be receiving in the mail? - What if someone joins this list later and wants to trade? - Why are we planning to trade so many concerts? I think TDI would get nervous here. - I'm afraid a monster is being created here and I cannot see the effort being sustained (I hope I'm proved wrong). A new tree should be created for every few releases, but you know that any current tree structure will not keep its integrity for long. So what happened to the good 'ole days of trading? I guess now everyone will have plenty of material to trade, so we'll hear no more excuses - I look forward to this! ;-) Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Shoults To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:25 AM Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree]SHN etc. > jeez, you guys. > > All this talk of extraction and stuff... Complaints about it being too > complicated... > > I'm just going to take my stack of 10-12 CDs, run DiscJuggler, making > straight copy after copy until I'm done, and mail them off. What's so > complicated about that? > > Extraction schmaction. bleah. > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31476 Re: [tree] KISS C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 7 KB 31479 Re: [tree] KISS vic rek Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31484 [tree] KISS Heiko Heerssen Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31492 Re: [tree] KISS vic rek Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31494 Re: [tree] KISS Heiko Heerssen Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31496 Re: [tree] KISS vic rek Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31497 Re: [tree] KISS tei waz Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB 31511 Who's vault is it anyway? airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31518 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:23 am Subject: [tree] Why leaves should want SHN The quality of your copy would ordinarily depend on how far out on your branch you are. Some leaves would get lower generation product while other leaves would get a higher generation copy. If using SHN guarantees leaves that they will get no worse than 2nd generation, and it doesn't entail any extra expense, why not? You're going to get standard redbook audio that will play anywhere (or SHN if that's what you want), so why would any leaf say no? Think about it. -- Mark -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is? Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31493 Re: [tree] Why leaves should want SHN John McIntyre Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31495 Re: [tree] Why leaves should want SHN 3N Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:45 am Subject: [tree] shades of orange >Are we trying to creat the perfect state-of-the-art CD or are we trying to share music amongst the fans? Why expect these to be mutually exclusive? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: Robert Grabowsky Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 1:16 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read WHY?????Why rip anything from one CD to another??????? EZ CD Creator has CD Copier which copies exactly from one disc to another and also uses DAO. It also comes with alot of CD burners. You don't need WAV files You don't need MP3 and You don't need SHN. Also if you do rip an audio CD to your hard drive and it has more than one track you will have a tiny glitch unless you put it back together with SoundForge or something similar even if you use DAO. Just put the disc in your CD-ROM and a blank CD in your burn start the program hit your settings and push the copy button. No problems. Lets just get through this as easy as possible. Robert Craig: Send me some snow this way. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31477 Re: [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so plea C. Chambers Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:06 am Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] KISS > I am going to make some possibly ignorant statements here - but I'm not > asking to be corrected. Hehe! Vic, my man...do you think that just by saying you do not want to be corrected gives you a bye? > Based on all the e-mail I've read on this subject and all the > pros and cons, > I believe many are missing one simple point (like Bob said) KISS - Keep It > Simple and Stupid. > > The current discussion and scope of effort will lead to a failure of this > effort. No! The current discussion has enlightened several folks that just two days ago were ignorant of the benefits of going with SHN. One day you will be enlightened too :-) Maybe not now, but sooner or later...you'll come around. But really, I think the whole thing is that SHN is really much more simple than trading audio CD's. It really is, once you load the software, it is a piece of cake...drag and drop. Easier than you replying to this post! And it is free, developed by traders for traders, with two primary intentions 1) Make traders' lives easier (and mailing cd's cheaper) and 2) Preserving the quality from trunk to leaf, and for posterity for those that care. As a leaf, I would seriously opt for a shn branch...you will rule out all the sources of data corruption throughout the treeing process and end up with a perfect copy. If you decide you want to stay on audio only, then, well take your chances...and keep it simple, stupid. > I have never seen so much discussion on losing data bits that most likely > you'll never hear anyway. I have never seen so many opinions about which > CD-Rs brands from which country to use. Are we trying to creat > the perfect > state-of-the-art CD or are we trying to share music amongst the fans? Vic, you miss the point...if there was no option *but* to lose bits, then why sweat it. But you don't have to lose bits...you can create *perfect* copies not *almost perfect* copies that are imperceptible. On cdr's that will last more than a few years too! > Here are Vic's KISS rules: > Set up a simple tree structure. > Send out the music and make the artwork downloadable. > And forget it. I would agree with the simple modification: 'send out the music with the option of assuring quality for those that want it...' > Every extra step (or rule) you add to the process (no matter how > trivial you > may feel it is) will add to the probability of failure. These are not rules...they are options, Joe has stated several times the defacto is redbook...I think what Mark and others are proponents of is to selfishly try and convince as many people as possible (especially branches) that if they want to assure quality, reduce costs, reduce burn time turnaround, and altogether have a much happier experience. They do not have to present it this way, they could just say 'whatever...I got mine right' but I think Mark is seriously trying to help people see that it is a GOOD thing to get a good copy as far down the tree lines as possible. > > Simple questions (Q) and answers (A) to technical problems that may arise: > > Q1a: If I get a CD from a branch that has a bit error in it, what should I > do > A: Nothing. > Q1b: But my copy must be digitally perfect! > A: Find someone who has the missing bit (assuming the original was > 'perfect'). This question doesn't even have to exist in the real world... > > Q2: I do not like the CD media that was sent to me. > A: Make another copy for yourself on your preferred media. Agreed...what is the problem there. That is exactly what I would (and 'do') do. We all have preferences...but, if you agree on it with your trade partner before hand, and they think that media quality is a valid concern, then this one doesn't have to exist either. > Q3: Why is Vic being technically ignorant. > A: So some people on this list would recongize the human element of this > effort. Because he's pissed at me for dragging my feet on a certain 'project'?? > Remember the days of the tape trees when the benefit of being > higher in the > tree was to get a better copy? What is the benefit now for the > trunk? Good > Samaritan status I guess. :-) BTW, I'm sorry, but sending blank CD-Rs in > the mail is STUPID (not part of the KISS principle). So how do you > reimburse your branch without sending money? Oh, that's right, CD-Rs & > postage are not money - sorry. Yeah, the trunk becomes the legend of the group for his awesome display of humanity. But as far as reimbursing your branch, I think you would want to trade something from your 'live' boot collection to them as opposed to being expected to send blanks and postage. I think most people prefer to get music in return for their efforts...so I want you below me! But you gotta agree to get your copy in either SHN or audio from SHN...don't be afraid, you can do it...it is an easy step to make and will open up a whole new world of possibilities...okay, bs is getting a little thick there, huh? But seriously folks, it is a choice...we are not trying to hijack the tree. Just trying to offer up information so that you can make a choice. Hopefully, all of this will die soon...I will try to refrain from discussion on this anymore. Vic...I still luv ya man. Craig From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:14 am Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read > WHY?????Why rip anything from one CD to another??????? > > EZ CD Creator has CD Copier which copies exactly from one disc to another > and also uses DAO. > It also comes with alot of CD burners. Robert, what do you think CD copier does? It rips to the harddrive then on the fly burns to CDR then deletes the remnants from your harddrive...just because it is one click doesn't mean it goes straight from CD to CDR...it still has to traverse the whole procedure, it just shields it from your eyes. > Also if you do rip an audio CD to your hard drive and it has more than > one track you will have a tiny glitch unless you put it back together with > SoundForge or something similar even if you use DAO. Not necessarily...maybe that depends on your software. > Just put the disc in your CD-ROM and a blank CD in your burn start the > program hit your settings and push the copy button. No problems. Actually, your chances for problems are dramatically higher... > Lets just get through this as easy as possible. I am easy...easy as Sunday morning... > Craig: Send me some snow this way. Snows gone, but you can have some of this crappy windy cold stuff! Where is El Nino when you need it? From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:53 am Subject: SHN compression -- how does it work? Does anyone know how SHN compression works? After all a 40%-50% reduction in .WAV file size seems a lot WITHOUT APPARENTLY LOSING ANY DATA -- or does that REALLY mean INAUDIBLE loss? Apparently ZIP files only manage a 9% reduction in .WAV file size. I presume we are not talking about a system that attenuates or eliminates low-level sounds when they coexist with higher-level ones, so I'm interested in some explanation about it. Call me a 'Doubting Thomas' but I'm suspicious about any claims that associate a lossless compression format with audio when appreciable file size reduction is involved. At least we know where we stand with MP3 -- like it or not! Incidentally, I went to that Hamilton web-site to find out more about SHN files but didn't gain much from the article there. I haven't looked further so far. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31480 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Mark Filipak Thu 1/17/2002 6 KB 31481 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Mark Filipak Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB 31505 Interesting mention Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31482 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Admin Thu 1/17/2002 5 KB 31501 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Joe Shoults Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31503 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? maggior@m... Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31506 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Matthew Sawyer Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31508 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31512 Re: SHN compression -- how does it work? maggior@m... Thu 1/17/2002 4 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 3:52 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > Because he's pissed at me for dragging my feet on a certain 'project'?? Well Craig, I'm glad that my post wasn't a waste - you read it perfectly :-) I guess I'll come around someday - but since most likely I'll be a leaf in your branch (and not even have to pay for postage), I'll have to accept what you hand to me - even if it's in perfect quality! I just SHuN the idea and scream HIJACK! Vic From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 4:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? My experiences ============== John, I don't know HOW it works but I do know THAT it works. I SHN compressed 'Vision Quest' and then the entire 'Poland' double CD album. Then I SHN uncompressed them and performed a binary, bit for bit comparison. The uncompressed audio was identical to the audio that had never been compressed -- bit for bit perfect. That's when I turned around and became a SHN advocate -- please check my many posts to see when this happened. I'm a hardware engineer, but I'm very familiar with compression technology and with encryption technology. I consider SHN to be nothing short of amazing... truly awesome. My fourier transform self insists that it must be doing SOME sort of frequency compression, but it really is a mystery to me, as lossless frequency compression must be very difficult BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE. There's some special sauce in SHN. Bit perfect = lossless = total fidelity ======================================= What this means: With no binary bit loss, there is no sound loss at all. Not at any frequency or for any sample. There is no frequency masking or filtering going on. There cannot be any such funny business going on or the round trip binary compare would not compare. It's like turning a Rembrandt painting into a paint by numbers painting and then not being able to tell the difference at either the visual level or at the microscopic level. SHN is bit perfect compression and I don't know how it does it. Future research =============== But my curiosity is tweaked and I'm going to find out. I'm pretty sure SHN must be doing some sort of discrete fourier analysis. But just because I don't know how it works now, I'm not dissuaded from using it after my experiments. After all, other people and other trees have used it extensively and according to Craig, have always had perfect results. I believe that. MD5 checksum ============ Remember also that the compression is also MD5 checksummed. MD5 (message digest method 5) is straight out of RSA encryption and you can't fool it. If there is an error from one rip to the next or from one branch to the following branch, the MD5 would indicate that there is an error, without respect to any audible trickery that SHN might try to do. As a test, I SHNed several times (remember, I have 3 copies of 'Poland' double CD) and I got identical MD5s each time even though you might think that the pressing plant just couldn't have made 3 indentical CDs -- that's digital for you. SHN really is the ZIP of audio. (In the foregoing test using 3 different disks, remember that I used EAC to do the ripping and it reported no errors and 100% accuracy for each -- if one of the discs had been scratched, that probably wouldn't have happened as CDROM hardware error correction is not always perfect.) BTW, check out the security certificates that your browser uses. You'll see MD5 there al! so. I hope this has helped you. I appologize for the verbose answer, but I feel this is important to both branches and leaves. File copies are much faster than rips, so branches will benefit, and MD5 assures that leaves will get bit perfect copies no matter how far out from the trunk they are. Ciao -- Mark John Marchington wrote: > > Does anyone know how SHN compression works? After all a 40%-50% reduction in .WAV file size seems a lot WITHOUT APPARENTLY LOSING ANY DATA -- or does that REALLY mean INAUDIBLE loss? Apparently ZIP files only manage a 9% reduction in .WAV file size. I presume we are not talking about a system that attenuates or eliminates low-level sounds when they coexist with higher-level ones, so I'm interested in some explanation about it. Call me a 'Doubting Thomas' but I'm suspicious about any claims that associate a lossless compression format with audio when appreciable file size reduction is involved. At least we know where we stand with MP3 -- like it or not! > > Incidentally, I went to that Hamilton web-site to find out more about SHN files but didn't gain much from the article there. I haven't looked further so far. From: Mark Filipak Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? And did I say SHNing is dead easy. Just open Windows Explorer, select a group of WAV files, drag-n-drop them on the toolkit sitting on the desktop, and **bam** they're SHNed. Then use any CD writer, like EZ CD Creator, to do a file copy to the target CDROM at maximum speed, not audio speed. Once SHNed, making a dup is simply copying files. No ripping and no converting. Just check the MD5 to see if there were any errors during copying -- not likely. Maybe it would be helpful to understand the difference between file copy and redbook audio copy, eh? Files are stored in concentric rings, just like on a hard drive. Once the CDROM has seeked to the desired track, sectors are read (or written) to fill out the track and the laser is stepped to the next track. It's very accurate and there's a very low chance of jitter. Redbook audio, on the other hand, is recorded as one continuous spiral from the center of the disk, out -- just like a vinyl record but inside to outside. An accurate seek must find the proper place on that spiral and then track it as it spirals out. The tracking mechanism exhibits what is known as 'hunting'. All mechanical and all analog electrical systems exhibit the 'hunting' phenomenon. As the 'hunt' for the track proceeds, jitter is produced that CAN, and often DOES produce data errors. If those errors are slight (i.e., if the 'hunting' is not too severe), then the drive's error correction can compensate for it. But the drive's ability to correct is very drive- and temperture- and wear- and... etc., etc. ... dependent. Audio uses it because the 'groove' following algorithm is easy to implement and any uncorrectable errors will most likely not be audible enough to be noticed. This is not true of file mode as 'hunting' does not occur -- a sufficient settling time before a track is read or written is built in. In other words, in file writing and reading, the laser doesn't have to also simultaneously track a spiral. With a spiral (redbook), copies of copies of copies can get progressively worse due to bit errors resulting from jitter. Also, seeking to a point on a spiral is much harder and more error prone than seeking to a concentric circle. That's why the actual point on the spiral that is reached can be off quite a bit. In one copy, your ear will not hear the error. In the 5th copy, it is very likely you will hear it. Again, I appologize for being verbose. Must be in my nature. :-) -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31505 Interesting mention Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:39 am Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? To SHN or not to SHN... I say do what ever it takes. Make them both available. Let the leaves ask. I do know that I will be hunting down a SHN program. Joe had it right, he did say he most likely do both for his own use. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? > And did I say SHNing is dead easy. Just open Windows Explorer, select a group of WAV files, drag-n-drop them on the toolkit sitting on the desktop, and **bam** they're SHNed. Then use any CD writer, like EZ CD Creator, to do a file copy to the target CDROM at maximum speed, not audio speed. > > Once SHNed, making a dup is simply copying files. No ripping and no converting. Just check the MD5 to see if there were any errors during copying -- not likely. > > Maybe it would be helpful to understand the difference between file copy and redbook audio copy, eh? > > Files are stored in concentric rings, just like on a hard drive. Once the CDROM has seeked to the desired track, sectors are read (or written) to fill out the track and the laser is stepped to the next track. It's very accurate and there's a very low chance of jitter. > > Redbook audio, on the other hand, is recorded as one continuous spiral from the center of the disk, out -- just like a vinyl record but inside to outside. An accurate seek must find the proper place on that spiral and then track it as it spirals out. The tracking mechanism exhibits what is known as 'hunting'. All mechanical and all analog electrical systems exhibit the 'hunting' phenomenon. As the 'hunt' for the track proceeds, jitter is produced that CAN, and often DOES produce data errors. If those errors are slight (i.e., if the 'hunting' is not too severe), then the drive's error correction can compensate for it. But the drive's ability to correct is very drive- and temperture- and wear- and... etc., etc. ... dependent. Audio uses it because the 'groove' following algorithm is easy to implement and any uncorrectable errors will most likely not be audible enough to be noticed. > > This is not true of file mode as 'hunting' does not occur -- a sufficient settling time before a track is read or written is built in. In other words, in file writing and reading, the laser doesn't have to also simultaneously track a spiral. With a spiral (redbook), copies of copies of copies can get progressively worse due to bit errors resulting from jitter. Also, seeking to a point on a spiral is much harder and more error prone than seeking to a concentric circle. That's why the actual point on the spiral that is reached can be off quite a bit. In one copy, your ear will not hear the error. In the 5th copy, it is very likely you will hear it. > > Again, I appologize for being verbose. Must be in my nature. :-) > > -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: NEUMANN.H-J@t... Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:50 am Subject: Goettsching Interview , please read this first !!! Hi all, following messages arrived me this morning, I hope that one can help me. PLEASE RECORDED THIS FOR ME: AND LET KNOW, when you have it. CONTACT PLEASE OFF-LIST . Many thankx. here the message: Manuel Göttsching special on Detroit radio station The Detroit radio station WDET-FM will broadcast a radio special on Thursday, 17 January 2001 at midnight until 2 am Eastern Time. Host Liz Copeland writes about this programme: 'Volume 17 of the series, airing January 17th, features the Germany's Manuel Göttsching and Ash Ra Tempel. Forging electronic instrumentation and effects with the guitar since the early '70s, Göttsching (both through his solo projects and through Ash Ra Tempel) helped pave the way for electronic music's entry.' Regards heiko www.tribute-to-ashra.de [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31491 Re: Goettsching Interview , please read this firs atye@a... Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 7:27 am Subject: [tree] KISS > Some concerns I have: > - Is Heiko going to supply approximately 46 concerts to the list subscribers > with most concerts being double CD-Rs? How many discs total will that be > Heiko? And how many CD-Rs will you be receiving in the mail? Hello Vic (& others), the list of concerts (which you can see at 'http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#content') hasn't been carved in stone yet, it may well be that some of the concerts will not be used. But most of the concerts do not overlap with what has already been used for the first 'Digital tape tree' series. > - I'm afraid a monster is being created here and I cannot see the effort > being sustained (I hope I'm proved wrong). Well Vic, since you already belong to the 'big ones' in terms of collecting live material I can only repeat Edgar's wise comment: if you don't want it, don't buy it. P*ssed off Heiko From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:31 am Subject: [tree] audio extraction/on the fly copying Gents, a few complaints have come up that audio extraction with the likes of EAC would complicate things unnecessary. I had to learn better the hard way, and I think I can make my point with an example quite well spread among concert collectors: The Mannheim and Saarbruecken 1976 concerts that surfaced a good year ago. The CDRs are full of dropouts, every copy around. This was because of undetected errors during on-the-fly copying at the original source. The master tapes sound great and are in good hands now, so we may see a much better version around soon. Don't you screw it up when making copies ;-) cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31487 Re: [tree] audio extraction/on the fly copying Heiko Heerssen Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:39 am Subject: Some SHN compression figures comparison Hi! I extracted my CDR:s that contain SHN packed stuff. Here's the result: First is name, then total time of the audio, then SHN compressed size, then WAV size and last is compressed size ratio. The last line shows also how much size the audio format would take. ---> In wav format that wouldn't fit into one disc but in SHN it would. So Wav-files are not saving any space, but they use even more space. You cannot fit WAV data from full audio-disc into one CDR. That's why SHN is the right format for data. How much space is actually saved using audio or SHN must be checked between size of audio <--> SHN, not WAV <--> SHN. One row is one CDR, except the two first are in same disc (Aachen + StarClub). Amount of MB:s is taken from explorer's botton bar. Name: time: shn: wav: % audio % Ok, these are pink floyd stuff: mm:ss MB MB Aachen 86:47 418 875 47,77 StarClub 36:12 190 365 52,05 69.09.17 -complete concertgebouw 81:29 446 823 54,19 Now And Forever, CD1 65:04 425 657 64,69 Now And Forever, CD2 54:11 363 547 66,36 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc1 60:30 362 610 59,34 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc2 66:49 384 677 56,72 Meddled 64:36 402 651 61,75 The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes 93:17 425 942 45,12 Stellar Symphony CD 1 67:12 442 679 65,10 Stellar Symphony CD 2 63:47 407 644 63,20 Those were the days 111:13 517 1090 47,43 A Passage Of Time, Disc1 73:53 476 746 63,81 653 72,89 total: 5257 9306 56,49 And here's more detailed information from two extracted discs. -------------------------------- In SHN: 01GRAN~6 SHN 42 673 301 22.08.01 20.00 01 Grantchester Meadows.shn 02ASTR~8 SHN 69 040 921 22.08.01 20.00 02 Astronomy Domine.shn 03CYM~10 SHN 69 797 401 22.08.01 20.00 03 Cymbaline.shn 04ATO~12 SHN 123 797 661 22.08.01 20.00 04 Atom Heart Mother.shn 05EMB~14 SHN 74 384 929 22.08.01 20.00 05 Embryo.shn In WAV: 01GRAN~1 WAV 74 229 164 16.01.02 20.58 01 Grantchester Meadows.wav 02ASTR~1 WAV 109 226 924 16.01.02 20.59 02 Astronomy Domine.wav 03CYMB~1 WAV 121 255 052 16.01.02 21.00 03 Cymbaline.wav 04ATOM~1 WAV 215 415 020 16.01.02 21.02 04 Atom Heart Mother.wav 05EMBR~1 WAV 120 493 004 16.01.02 21.03 05 Embryo.wav -------------------------------- -------------------------------- In SHN: 06GREE~6 SHN 27 055 157 22.08.01 20.00 06 Green Is The Colour.shn 07CARE~8 SHN 72 591 549 22.08.01 20.00 07 Careful With That Axe, Eugene.shn 08SET~10 SHN 72 571 229 22.08.01 20.00 08 Set The Controls.shn 09ASA~12 SHN 139 332 405 22.08.01 20.00 09 A Saucerful of Secrets.shn 10INT~14 SHN 91 345 573 22.08.01 20.00 10 Interstellar Overdrive.shn In WAV: 06GREE~1 WAV 48 622 940 16.01.02 20.38 06 Green Is The Colour.wav 07CARE~1 WAV 121 299 740 16.01.02 20.39 07 Careful With That Axe, Eugene.wav 08SETT~1 WAV 135 341 180 16.01.02 20.40 08 Set The Controls.wav 09ASAU~1 WAV 240 430 892 16.01.02 20.42 09 A Saucerful of Secrets.wav 10INTE~1 WAV 165 195 116 16.01.02 20.44 10 Interstellar Overdrive.wav -------------------------------- Yes, you can see that some of the discs didn't actually save the amount of CDR:s. One audio-format disc fit only into one CDR in SHN-format. Regards, timo From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:43 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] audio extraction/on the fly copying > The Mannheim and Saarbruecken 1976 concerts that surfaced > a good year ago. > The master tapes sound great and are in good hands now, > so we may see a much better version around soon. Don't > you screw it up when making copies ;-) The Mannheim & Saarbrücken 76 shows are being remastered at the moment (my 'source' is working with the original master tapes right now), and he told me that they will go down in TD history. They will hopefully be included in the 2nd batch of concerts. Heiko From: Klaus Beschorner Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:44 am Subject: [tree] CDR brands >I know I saw some little program that would tell you this when you >popped a blank in. CDR Identifier does this. You can find it at www.brennmeister.com under 'Quick Downloads' You'll be surprised to find out how many 'brand name' CDRs come out of the same two plants in Taiwan ;-) cheers, klaus Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31907 Re: [tree] CDR brands Mark Filipak Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31909 Re: [tree] CDR brands C. Chambers Tue 2/5/2002 3 KB 31915 CDR brands / what's good for trading ? braddito Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31927 Re: CDR brands /Kodak Rolf Elfström Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB 31920 [tree] CDR brands Mark Filipak Tue 2/5/2002 5 KB 31926 Re: [tree] CDR brands Rolf Elfström Tue 2/5/2002 4 KB 31929 Re: [tree] CDR brands Matthew Sawyer Tue 2/5/2002 2 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:54 am Subject: Again SHN compression comparison Damn, it removed the tabs, so here is the list hopefully in more readable format. regards, timo Name: time: shn: wav: % audio % Ok, these are pink floyd stuff: mm:ss MB MB Aachen 86:47 418 875 47,77 StarClub 36:12 190 365 52,05 69.09.17 -complete concertgebouw 81:29 446 823 54,19 Now And Forever, CD1 65:04 425 657 64,69 Now And Forever, CD2 54:11 363 547 66,36 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc1 60:30 362 610 59,34 Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc2 66:49 384 677 56,72 Meddled 64:36 402 651 61,75 The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes 93:17 425 942 45,12 Stellar Symphony CD 1 67:12 442 679 65,10 Stellar Symphony CD 2 63:47 407 644 63,20 Those were the days 111:13 517 1090 47,43 A Passage Of Time, Disc1 73:53 476 746 63,81 653 72,89 total: 5257 9306 56,49 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31490 Own-Re: Again SHN compression comparison rtol008 Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'rtol008' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:08 am Subject: Own-Re: Again SHN compression comparison Damn, damn, damn, what I'm doing wrong? I can't see the spaces nor can I see the tabs. Still the spaces are visible in this posting window. -timo- --- In tadream@y..., 'rtol008' wrote: > Damn, it removed the tabs, so here is the list hopefully in more > readable format. > > regards, timo > > Name: time: shn: wav: % > audio % > Ok, these are pink floyd stuff: mm:ss MB MB > Aachen 86:47 418 875 47,77 > StarClub 36:12 190 365 52,05 > 69.09.17 -complete concertgebouw 81:29 446 823 54,19 > Now And Forever, CD1 65:04 425 657 64,69 > Now And Forever, CD2 54:11 363 547 66,36 > Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc1 60:30 362 610 59,34 > Pink Pigs Over Fillmore West - disc2 66:49 384 677 56,72 > Meddled 64:36 402 651 61,75 > The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes 93:17 425 942 45,12 > Stellar Symphony CD 1 67:12 442 679 65,10 > Stellar Symphony CD 2 63:47 407 644 63,20 > Those were the days 111:13 517 1090 47,43 > A Passage Of Time, Disc1 73:53 476 746 63,81 > 653 72,89 > > total: 5257 9306 56,49 From: atye@a... Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 12:58 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Goettsching Interview , please read this first !!! I just looked, and that station seems to be broadcasting live on the web. http://www.wdetfm.org/content/listen_live.php ATYE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'vic rek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:13 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > Well Vic, since you already belong to the 'big ones' in terms of collecting live > material I can only repeat Edgar's wise comment: if you don't want it, don't buy > it. > > P*ssed off Heiko Hmm, I didn't realize we are allowed to BUY something in this tree? ;-) The way the tree reads now is that I sit back as a leaf and just yell GIMME GIMME!! Even though this list hasn't discussed which concerts would be appropriate to release that are of some significance, which concerts we would like to get, which concerts are not already widely distributed, etc. We just said that we are 'greedy' and Heiko said that he would kindly volunteer to fill out greed. Heiko - restraint yourself of such unnecessary kindness. ;-) Like I said earlier, that I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this project. I believe that only certain significant representative concerts should be selected and that this should be over time with different fans acting as trunks. The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... So!, I'm going to go out today and buy my 100 CD-R spindle for $30 and send it media mail rate to my branch and just sit back and wait for about 50 high quality 'error-free' concerts to arrive at my doorstep. This is almost as good as the $600 tax refund check that George Bush sent me! I hope you read all the sarcasm in this post and don't take it lliterally... but think about it. Vic From: John McIntyre Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Why leaves should want SHN Mark Filipak wrote: > The quality of your copy would ordinarily depend on how far out on your branch you are. Some leaves would get lower generation product while other leaves would get a higher generation copy. > > If using SHN guarantees leaves that they will get no worse than 2nd generation, and it doesn't entail any extra expense, why not? Maybe because I don't have a burner so SHN would be useless to me? Or am I misunderstanding? > You're going to get standard redbook audio that will play anywhere (or SHN if that's what you want), so why would any leaf say no? Give me audio that will play anywhere and I'm happy. Give me SHN and I have coasters for all the good they will do me. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@p... From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > Like I said earlier, that I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this > project. I believe that only certain significant representative concerts > should be selected... Hello Vic, speaking of 'only certain significant representative concerts' I can give you some information, so that you will realize how much effort we put into this project: i have asked 5 people on the list to remaster concerts from my collection. From what they have told me they already spent a lot of time so far to get their 'job' done as good as possible. I won't mention names but I truly know that those people are absolute experts in remastering (or would you like to spend 18-20 hours at home trying to fix and correct the tape speed of a slurry sounding piece which has a length of only 10 minutes?) > The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too > soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... that's your own opinion..and I hope that when the first batch of CDRs will hit the 'fanbase' they all will scream for more ;-) Heiko (who needs a break from all this.......see ya tomorrow ~lol~) From: '3N' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 2:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Why leaves should want SHN HeY! ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Filipak To: Tadream Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:23 AM Subject: [tadream] [tree] Why leaves should want SHN > > If using SHN guarantees leaves that they will get no worse than 2nd generation, and it doesn't entail any extra expense, why not? > The SHN compression is a news for me, but I think it's very interesting. It was so many words about this, but for the tree we can use an another idea. Some from the top of tree make on HDD _images_ of master audio discs and burn their as data (in max possibility speed). Afterword send their to the next member. He copy images from data discs to HDD and with own burnig-software make audiocopying on on own-favourite type of disc. When all will be done send recived image copies to the next member and so on. The question of cost (in this method it's only a cost of post-package - of course discs would be without boxes) can be done in any couple of sender privatelly. I see, that's only a problem with leaves without a burnighardware. To their material must come direct in audio format. But for branches, I think, it's good idea. My two cents, and now I must go in the lurker mode - I have a lot of work ;)). regards JerzyK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wiesz, co daja dzisiaj w TV? >>> http://tv.interia.pl/ From: 'vic rek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS > i have asked 5 people on the list to remaster concerts from my collection. From > what they have told me they already spent a lot of time so far to get their > 'job' done as good as possible. I won't mention names but I truly know that > those people are absolute experts in remastering (or would you like to spend > 18-20 hours at home trying to fix and correct the tape speed of a slurry > sounding piece which has a length of only 10 minutes?) > Heiko, obviously this is nothing personal - so don't take it that way. The fact that people have spent time remastering, de-slurring, etc. is great! This is not wasted at all! My point is that the scope of this effort is too large and it should be kept to only a few concerts and the rest should be worked off this list. What is the big urgency all-of-a-sudden? > > The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too > > soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... > > that's your own opinion..and I hope that when the first batch of CDRs will hit > the 'fanbase' they all will scream for more ;-) Obviously you are a bit p*ssed for some reason. Again, what's the hurry. Take it easy and like you exactly said 'let the fanbase scream for more'... Vic From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [tree] KISS From: 'vic rek' >Like I said earlier, that I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this project. I believe that only certain significant representative concerts should be selected and that this should be over time with different fans acting as trunks. The spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too soon and for free - as we see the consequences of this in everyday life... Um, well lemme see, I never received one tape for the trees I was on back in the uwp list days, so I'd rather have the benefits of heiko's greedy benevolence. One disc received would certainly be a better average than that. We don't see TDI releasing these things. Ozric Tentacles management acknowledges trading and generally asks for copies of shows that are distributed on that list for archival purposes--they get the artwork, too. Maybe someone can be benevolently greedy and give TDI a copy of this perhaps for greater distribution amongst the world down the line. Certainly this tree will represent just what the fans here can do/will have done and have wanted for a long time--plenty of wart removal and no tangentization. It would also represent the possibility of what fans could do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's vaults. >So!, I'm going to go out today and buy my 100 CD-R spindle for $30 and send >it media mail rate to my branch and just sit back and wait for about 50 >high quality 'error-free' concerts to arrive at my doorstep. Great idea/great contribution to this tree. So yer in for the SHN branch then? >This is almost as good as the $600 tax refund check that George Bush sent >me!< Actually, I think it's better than that, I only got $300. ;) --T _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31511 Who's vault is it anyway? airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31518 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31514 Re: [tree] KISS airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 5:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] KISS and so it begins Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31499 Re: [tree] KISS and Kaboom! Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:05 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] KISS and Kaboom! Maybe it's time to take a moratorium on the intricacies of the tree. We'll all have plenty of time to sort that out as it begins and all the back and forth isn't changing anyone's minds. All the info is out there, or on the web page for each person to check out. Peace, Mike From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Summary - I did a lot of work, so please read From: 'C. Chambers' > > Also if you do rip an audio CD to your hard drive and it has more than > > one track you will have a tiny glitch unless you put it back together with > > SoundForge or something similar even if you use DAO. > > Not necessarily...maybe that depends on your software. The gaps Robert is referring to crop in when ripping software grabs tracks from a disc. It'll often add a few frames of silence at the end, and if the tracks are continuous and you burn those tracks back to disc the gaps can be heard. The easy way around this problem is to use Nero and crossfade each track by 5 frames. Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31549 Re: [tree] regarding this tree TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31552 Re: regarding this tree TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31579 Re: [tree] regarding this tree ftsmythe Sat 1/19/2002 4 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:57 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? > -----Original Message----- > To SHN or not to SHN... I say do what ever it takes. Make them both > available. Let the leaves ask. I do know that I will be > hunting down a SHN program. > Joe had it right, he did say he most likely do both for his own use. well, I was on the Road to Redbook, then Mark and Craig knocked me off my horse: It would be more trouble to trade in redbook format, and I will be participating to receive SHN-only, but I will be happy to burn to redbook for my downline leaves or branches. I was resistant, but now I have seen the light! Call me Saul. :) The link to download the SHN program is on the tree info page here: http://www.tadream.net/tree/default.htm#format From: Joe Shoults Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:09 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] KISS > -----Original Message----- > From: vic rek [mailto:tang > The way the tree reads now is that I sit back as a leaf and > just yell GIMME GIMME!! ... > I don't fell comfortable with the scope of this project. ... > spirit of it all is gone when you get too much too soon > and for free ... > I hope you read all the sarcasm in this post and don't take > it lliterally... but think about it. Vic Thanks Vic, for your concerns. If your concerns outweigh your desire to participate, please feel free to contact me when it's over, and I'll be happy to trade individual items from the project with you. Of course, you'll only be getting pieces-parts of the set, and your jewel case spine image won't line up, but maybe you already have some of these concerts and don't need them all at first generation quality. As for your feeling that failure is inevitable, the operative here is that we ARE thinking about 'it' and have a pretty good game plan. We'll see how the project goes with this many disks, but remember, we are free from the usual burden of treeing the artwork in addition to the CDs, which will help. The only reason that any of this will fail is if any participant backs out. But even then, we will just prune and graft his/her branch. We will also have fully visible accountability for every participant through the tadream.net Tree page. A lot of trees post their structures, but I've never seen one that actually tracks activity of participants, providing accountability and ensuring timely delivery. And about the money thing: I send you a package, you send me one. The postage costs are going to be about the same, give or take a few ounces of weight, so it's a wash, isn't it? Where's the need for money? But I would expect something in return if you were my leaf, and that is between you and me alone, whether it is blanks, or a trade, or the promise to share a few pints of Guiness at Okeefenokee! Joe From: 'maggior@m...' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:11 pm Subject: RE: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? I was a bit resistant at first as well. I've downloaded the software and played with it a bit. It is truely easy to use It really makes a lot of sense to use this for audio file trading. I like the fact that I'll be able to burn the copies at 12X rather than the ususal 4X I use for audio (redbook) purposes. What does this mean? It means I can support more leaves than I normally would. To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I can play wherever I want. In my opinion, this is a great idea - I'm sold! Rich Maggio > -----Original Message----- > To SHN or not to SHN... I say do what ever it takes. Make them both > available. Let the leaves ask. I do know that I will be > hunting down a SHN program. > Joe had it right, he did say he most likely do both for his own use. It would be more trouble to trade in redbook format, and I will be participating to receive SHN-only, but I will be happy to burn to redbook for my downline leaves or branches. I was resistant, but now I have seen the light! Call me Saul. :) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: 'zathrus13' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:15 pm Subject: Schulze's Contemporary Edition Hello all - I made a trade with someone a while back and I got Klaus' Comtemporary Works CD set. What I didn't get was the booklet. Does anyone have this set who would be willing to copy the booklet for me? I'm willing to trade a CDR for it. Please contact me offline. (jmisner13@l...) ---Jeff From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:24 pm Subject: Interesting mention Hi all-- Just saw this posted to the Neil Young list about taking your children to concerts. Thought you might get a kick out of it. 'Hello all, some positive thoughts on this subject- I've been taking my kids to live shows since they were 7- My oldest went with me to Tangerine Dream at age 7, For us,these events have been tons of fun. My boys are 18 and 15 now, and we continue to share an amazing musical bond that is just awesome. I guess everyone's different, but they'd rather me take them to U2 than to the World series....' Curious if anyone here had done the same. Mike From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:35 pm Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? From: > To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs > in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! > For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I > can play wherever I want. I must be missing something here. Wouldn't branches have to burn for leaves in standard redbook format? How many leaves would want to get the discs in SHN format? Sure, they could extract them, but without burners they'd have to convert to MP3. My understanding of this was that branches could pass SHN discs down to other branches beneath them, but if you're burning for a leaf you'd have to do it in standard redbook. This is making my head hurt ;-). Maff From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:48 pm Subject: [tree] Format Wars Could I suggest we drop any further discussion of formats? Given anyone can sign up to the (basically independent) redbook or SHN subtrees everyone should be happy one way or the other. Each has it's own benefits and inconveniences, and most people seem to have quickly decided which suits them. In all the technical discussions, nobody's discussed the content, have they? Well, I'd like to say - it sounds fantastic, a mix of stuff I've never heard and favorites I'd kill for a top quality copy of. Nice choice, Heiko. jc Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31543 Re: [tree] Format Wars Heiko Heerssen Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:48 pm Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? does it matter? If a leaf tells you they want audio, burn audio, if they say shn, burn shn, if they request mp3 burn mp3. Just be flexible and go forth. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Matthew Sawyer' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:35 PM Subject: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? > From: > > > > To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs > > in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! > > For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I > > can play wherever I want. > > > I must be missing something here. Wouldn't branches have to burn for leaves > in standard redbook format? How many leaves would want to get the discs in > SHN format? Sure, they could extract them, but without burners they'd have > to convert to MP3. My understanding of this was that branches could pass SHN > discs down to other branches beneath them, but if you're burning for a leaf > you'd have to do it in standard redbook. > > This is making my head hurt ;-). > > > Maff > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:56 pm Subject: tree content I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in detail will be known? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31510 Re: tree content Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31516 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31517 Re: tree content Administrator for kay-net.com Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31520 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31524 Re: tree content bigstupidgeek Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 8:57 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content To sum this up, just where is the Holy Grail? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 12:56 PM Subject: [tadream] tree content > I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment > was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up > of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. > I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in > detail will be known? > > > Administrator for Kay-Net.com > admin@k... > 661-723-0266 > Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31516 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:00 pm Subject: Who's vault is it anyway? --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > It would also represent the possibility of what fans could > do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's > vaults. What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a decent recording? jc (cynical, moi?) Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31518 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: 'maggior@m...' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:01 pm Subject: RE: Re: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? Maff, Sorry, I didn't mean to make your head hurt! ;-) You're right, I wasn't distinguishing the tree nodes below me as branches or leaves. If they are branches, then my statement holds true. Leaves presumabley don't have CD burning capabilities, so they would want redbook copies. This is unless the tree is setup so that paths from the trunk (root) to the leaves are of a specific format. Now I'm making my own head hurt ;-). Rich Maggio Original Message: ----------------- From: > To support my leaves, I have to burn half as many CDs > in 1/3rd of the time. Oh, and lower postage costs. Very cool!! > For myself, I take some time out to burn redbook versions I > can play wherever I want. I must be missing something here. Wouldn't branches have to burn for leaves in standard redbook format? How many leaves would want to get the discs in SHN format? Sure, they could extract them, but without burners they'd have to convert to MP3. My understanding of this was that branches could pass SHN discs down to other branches beneath them, but if you're burning for a leaf you'd have to do it in standard redbook. This is making my head hurt ;-). Maff ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From: Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 7:36 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] SHN compression -- how does it work? >From: Joe Shoults >I was resistant, but now I have seen the light! Call me Saul. :) Don't you mean ''Paul''? -jim From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [tree] KISS --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > Maybe someone can be benevolently > greedy and give TDI a copy of this perhaps for greater > distribution amongst the world down the line. I wouldn't, unless they ask. Martin knows we're here. It may be legally expedient not to know too much. I'm sure I've heard of commercial bootleggers using approval of fan trading to justify piracy. jc From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:07 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? That answer is easy. I envision them sitting around a dart board. On that dart board is a list of all the concert, special tapes and the like. you stand a mile away and throw at it. If it strikes, you note that area and immediately take out a coin, be it a German Mark or Euro these days, flip it, close your eyes and touch the dart board. If it was heads, it is three fingers to the left or right depending on where you touch the board, if tails, you wait till the full moon, see is a shadow is cast on the board, then 1 finger to the right. The dart was only a marker. I too see almost no rhyme or reason to why some of theses are chosen and not others. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'airsculpture' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? > --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > > It would also represent the possibility of what fans could > > do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's > > vaults. > > What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, > but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the > E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog > modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why > pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a > decent recording? > > jc (cynical, moi?) > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31526 Re: Who's vault is it anyway? John Marchington Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:15 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content At 12:57 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >To sum this up, just where is the Holy Grail? The Killer Bunnies got it!! Run! Mike From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:21 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content I just got this killer DVD from a band called The Ruttles. I wonder if there should be a TD version done too? Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Michael Fox' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content > At 12:57 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: > >To sum this up, just where is the Holy Grail? > > The Killer Bunnies got it!! Run! > > Mike > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31520 Re: tree content Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:23 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? At 09:00 PM 01/17/2002 +0000, you wrote: >What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, >but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the >E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog >modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why >pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a >decent recording? (wipes tear from eye) Man, this takes me back to the uwp list days. Probably, if those tapes exist, they are in such horrid condition they can't be used. (I have mucho info on archiving master reels-if anyone wants to read that stuff, I can supply a link from an old friend who was an engineer at A&M) BTW---it's the DX-Ball game room that the tapes are stored next to--it shares space with the Mellotron room. :-) Mike From: 'meta_mythos' Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 10:11 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN > Your choise. -- Mark What about us Mac types ? I'm not sure if it's as easy on A Mac due to all this .wav nonsense. I'm running a pro system with a ProTools front end, and I'm more interested in fidelity than space saving. B. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31521 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31523 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31527 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB 31522 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Michael Fox Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:31 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] tree content At 01:21 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >I just got this killer DVD from a band called The Ruttles. I wonder if there >should be a TD version done too? Only if it's Ruttle-ized. Okay, I quit. Mike From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:44 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN --- In tadream@y..., 'meta_mythos' wrote: > What about us Mac types ? There's a mac version, I checked before I jumped on the bandwagon (I'm a PC user, but I care). Joe has a link on www.tadream.net, IMSC. Otherwise google is your friend. > I'm not sure if it's as easy on A Mac due to all this .wav > nonsense. What, can't ProTools import WAVs? It's become a pretty universal standard these days, not just PCs but Akai 5/6000s and so on. > I'm running a pro system with a ProTools front end, and I'm more > interested in fidelity than space saving. Then you want this, surely. 16-bit 44.1k is more than enough given the source material, unless you want another 8bits of hiss. jc Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31523 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN airsculpture Thu 1/17/2002 2 KB 31527 Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN meta_mythos Thu 1/17/2002 3 KB From: Michael Fox Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN At 10:11 PM 01/16/2002 +0000, you wrote: >What about us Mac types ? >I'm not sure if it's as easy on A Mac due to all this .wav >nonsense. Check here: http://etree.org/macos.html From: 'airsculpture' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 9:47 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN --- In tadream I wrote: > Could I suggest we drop any further discussion of formats? --- Then in tadream I wrote: > Then you want this, surely. Sorry. It's hard work shutting up :) jc From: 'bigstupidgeek' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:03 pm Subject: Re: tree content --- In tadream@y..., 'Administrator for kay-net.com' wrote: > I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment > was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up > of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniquen great point Dale. These would make good liner notes. Do we have anyone willing to help compile these notes once we know which shows will be included? From: 'Owens, James' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:28 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] What's this all about? Hi Dennis, I'm sure someone has already e-mailed you, but I thought I'd give you a line or too just in case. > -----Original Message----- > 1) What will the tree contain? There seems to be some talk > about older > concert recordings... Heiko has agreed to make available some master or low gen recordings from TD concerts, dates ranging from 74 to 78 (most likely). Someone will be remastering these for best quality. > 2) Not having a CD-R burner, will it be possible for me to > join as a 'leaf' > as long as I pay for the blank media? Absolutely! Most likely it will be blanks plus postage. That's up to whoever your branch (or upline) is. > 3) Who is going to oversee the tree? I remember joining the last tape > tree on the old list and never seeing a single tape because the tree > ground to a halt before my branch even received his copy. This is always a danger as the work is strictly voluntary. But other than having your hopes dashed, you wouldn't be out anything unless your immediate branch stiffed you. Personally, I wouldn't ask for my half of a trade from a leaf until I had sent them their discs! Also remember that if your branch breaks, you can always side-line and get copies from another branch. I think Joe Shoults (our list operator) is overseeing tree structure. You can sign up on the yahoogroups page or maybe from www.tadream.net James From: 'John Marchington' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 11:03 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? This is food for thought. We could all end up with a lot of dross -- concerts where crowd noise in unusually obtrusive, where the microphones are a long way away from the players, where even the band is having an (unusually) bad night, or simply where the music itself is less than brilliant! We've probably all got TD bootlegs where one or other of the above intrude on our enjoyment, and 'Soundmill Navigator' is certainly a case in point with an official release that is technically flawed. I don't mean to be pessimistic but all this talk about SHN etc might be for nought! ----- Original Message ----- From: 'airsculpture' To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:00 AM Subject: [tadream] Who's vault is it anyway? > --- In tadream@y..., 'tei waz' wrote: > > > It would also represent the possibility of what fans could > > do for TDI historical recordings given time and access to Edgar's > > vaults. > > What vaults? I know the TD website claims everything is archived, > but somehow I see those tapes sitting in a safe somewhere between the > E-Ball manufacturing plant and the room with the stored Moog > modulars. If they really have all this great stuff available, why > pick concerts like soundmill for release when they don't have a > decent recording? > > jc (cynical, moi?) > > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'meta_mythos' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 11:05 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN Interesting, took 24 hours for my last post to appear in Yahoo, what's that all about ? Anyway... > There's a mac version, I checked before I jumped on the bandwagon > (I'm a PC user, but I care). Hey, thanks JC, always appreciated. > What, can't ProTools import WAVs? Sure, but dealing with all that Microshit stuff is a real bore..but let's not go there. I just wanted to be compatible with the rest of whatever branch/leaf stream I'm connected too. Amusingly enough, I'm planning to move up to the new 96k version of ProTools, and it now uses WAV as it's default audio format. Go figure. > Then you want this, surely. 16-bit 44.1k is more than enough given > the source material, unless you want another 8bits of hiss. Ha ha !' True :) I had thought of working with the material in 24 bit at some stage and re mastering and generally cleaning them up for my own enjoyment (way to busy at the moment to be able to offer to do that for this tree alas) I just like the idea of audio red book discs, much easier all around. I master my own albums down to regular old CDR and and dupe copies for production with NO problems with fidelity. Most of my friends are musicians, and they do exactly the same. B. From: 'tei waz' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 11:30 pm Subject: >I just like the idea of audio red book discs, much easier all around. I master my own albums down to regular old CDR and and dupe copies for production with NO problems with fidelity. Most of my friends are musicians, and they do exactly the same.< but do you make CDRs of CDRs of CDRs of CDRs of CDRs and then expect them to play perfectly well and sound good too? redbook audio is not easier when you get a defective disc from somewhere overseas--it's a big hassle--at least there is email no, not just snail mail--so it shortens (ha!) the turnaround time for corrections. And if the disc that they burned your copy from was defective, it's a massive daisy-chain of problems, not to mention time, so it's not easier all around. --T _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From: tom george Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:00 am Subject: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave Files Etc. To whoever asked for a copy of the 'Contemporary Works' book: my question to you is 'why do you need it unless you speak German. Every page in it save two are in German. another question to those talking all of the computer burn possibilities. what about all of us that don't have computer access except at work. I can't burn or rip or whatever, nor can i download and print booklet covers. i can burn cdrs on my audio only burner. so i hope i get a branch that is willing to not only burn cdrs but is also willing to do covers for me. what are the chances of that happening? my thinking is next to none. Beerhammer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31531 Re: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave File airsculpture Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31559 Re: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave File Michael Fox Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:39 am Subject: Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds >From: Mark Filipak >Date: Wed Jan 16, 2002 8:24 am >Subject: Re: [tadream] The 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds' Connection > >scfeldman@j... wrote: > > > > On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:40:41 -0500 Mark Filipak > > writes: > > > > >Edgar has stated many times that the name 'Tangerine Dream' > > >DID NOT come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > > > > True, but he has also stated that the name 'Tangerine > > Dream' DID come from 'Lucy in the sky with diamonds'. > >Eh? Produce the proof, dear Steven. http://www.feldoncentral.com/1701-ThatsCorrect.mp3 -Morgan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'airsculpture' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:44 am Subject: Re: Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave Files Etc. --- In tadream@y..., tom george wrote: > what about all of us that don't have computer access > except at work. I can't burn or rip or whatever, nor > can i download and print booklet covers. i can burn > cdrs on my audio only burner. so i hope i get a > branch that is willing to not only burn cdrs No problem, just sign up for the main (redbook) tree. > but is > also willing to do covers for me. what are the chances > of that happening? my thinking is next to none. Covers have been slightly ignored, but I guess once the images are online people will be willing to volunteer to print them for printerless folks. I look at it as an excuse to finally buy a color printer. From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:06 am Subject: Warsaw, Poland 1983 Information The afternoon Warsaw 1983 concert had no power outages. The evening Warsaw 1983 concert had ONE power outage at 10 minutes, 7 seconds into the music. After a couple of minutes, they were able to resume, playing the typical 'bridge' after the first movement of Poland. The best possible bootleg of the afternoon and evening shows is 'Dreaming on Ice Stadium', but even it has tracks out of sequence and many mislabelings (never trust a boot label!), probably due to language translation. Once all the tracks have been reshuffled, it's a decent quality bootleg (6/10) that, with some TLC (pitch adjustment and filtering) could be even better. The actual tracklist for both shows is as follows: [Set One] Poland movement 1 [12:58]* Poland bridge [3:06] Poland movement 2 [10:25] Tangent movement 1 [3:42] Tangent movement 2 [5:49] Tangent movement 3 [7:11] [Set Two] Horizon movement 1 [11:53] Horizon movement 2 [4:22] Warsaw in the Sun [5:56] Barbakane movement 3 [5:25] Kiew Mission lyrics spoken aloud [1:39] Sphinx Lightning excerpt [4:25] Horizon movement 3 [6:32] Logos ending coda [2:39] [Encores] Rarebird [4:48] White Eagle [4:26] Chroronzon 1981-1983 ver [8:55] What appears on all official Poland releases is a studio creation in spring 1984. Of note on the official Poland releases is a brand new 6 minute track instead of 6 minutes of 'Sphinx Lightning' from Barbakane, a heavily redesigned Warsaw in the Sun, the first passage of Poland was 2 minutes shorter, and there are tracks missing and reshuffled as described above. The Polish spoken introduction on the 2 CD of Poland is authentic. -Morgan * I'm still trying to get the entry for this show corrected at Duncan's otherwise awesome website here: http://www.zebbyworld.demon.co.uk/Frames/Frameset2.html It lists Poland as a 30 minute track and describes it as being identical to the Japanese tour earlier in 1983. This is simply not the case. Not only were 4 minutes of (in my opinion) fruitless improvisation shaved off, but actually, more musical ground is covered. Poland, as played at the Warsaw show in 1983 is not identical to what was released, but it's pretty darn close. The Japanese 1983 tours are interesting to listen to, but your attention tends to wane, as the heavy 16 1/2 minute version of Poland movement 1 wears on. Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31575 Re: Warsaw, Poland 1983 Information 3N Fri 1/18/2002 8 KB From: Felna Greymane Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:18 am Subject: SHN Forgive me for asking on list, but I am spending so much time reading thru mail, I dont have time left to go find out on my own... Craig, You ALMOST have me sold on SHN....my question....can you play it on the fly from SHN format? If so, does it take specialized audio programs? I normally just use the media player built into windows. Jeff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31537 Re: SHN C. Chambers Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: quarlie@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:12 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Interesting mention In a message dated 1/17/02 3:26:04 PM, mfox@i... writes: >Just saw this posted to the Neil Young list about taking your children >to concerts. Thought you might get a kick out of it. [...] >Curious if anyone here had done the same. My mom took me to see TD when I was 11 (I already liked some TD at that point). I'm now a bigger TD fan than she is. --Daniel NP: Wolfsheim - Spectators From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:16 am Subject: [tree] SHN I was getting sucked into the whirlwind of excitement for SHN, then I realized something. The main reason for bit errors on redbook audio CDs is scratches, etc. right? How many scratches can an SHN disc take before that big massive file is corrupted and you have to get another copy from your branch? I presume SHN cannot deal with unreadable sections? Also, who is going to seed all these SHN branches? If there are several redbook audio steps before the SHN, what have we accomplished? I think Hieko would have to buy a CD burner for his PC to do the SHN at the level you guys are asking for. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31554 Re: [tree] SHN airsculpture Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB From: 'vic rek' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:41 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] KISS --> Oke 2002 Ok - Okefenokee! It's time for me to stop talking about this tree stuff. Enough! It's time to act! I'll be waiting as a leaf and I'll make sure my source gets some nice CD-Rs in return ;-) Time to focus some attention to Okefenokee 2002. See http://akorn.net/~tangerinedream/ricochet.htm We are almost SOLD OUT, so you adventurous late comers need to contact me ASAP. For those that do not know yet, Jens Peschke has decided to join Marcel (Free System Projekt), John and Pete (AirSculpture), Dave Brewer and Bill Fox for our 3rd year of the Ricochet Gathering. Our first German to join the gathering! Next year this event will ricochet to another part of the USA - stay tuned for more info and an upcoming CD from last year's event. Vic > And about the money thing: I send you a package, you send me one. The > postage costs are going to be about the same, give or take a few ounces of > weight, so it's a wash, isn't it? Where's the need for money? But I would > expect something in return if you were my leaf, and that is between you and > me alone, whether it is blanks, or a trade, or the promise to share a few > pints of Guiness at Okeefenokee! > > Joe From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:23 am Subject: RE: [tadream] SHN > You ALMOST have me sold on SHN....my question....can you play it > on the fly > from SHN format? If so, does it take specialized audio programs? I > normally just use the media player built into windows. Well, Jeff, first off, I am not trying to 'sell' the format...just trying to help enlighten folks to what it is and what are some of the benefits to using it. It will work for some and not others which is perfectly okay as long as you are happy...I think it is absolutely clear that both paths will be accomodated. To answer your question regarding special software, you do need WinAmp (commonly used for playing MP3's on a PC) with a special plug-in...so it isn't particularly convenient unless you use WinAmp on a regular basis anyway. I am almost certain they will not play in Media Player, unless someone has developed a plug-in for that too...(does Microsoft allow plug-ins?) I think (at least in my opinion) that you are better off just assuming you will need to burn a copy to audio if you really want to enjoy it... Craig From: Morgan Feldon Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:06 am Subject: [tree] The Holy Grail(?) >Administrator for Kay-Net.com said: >I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment >was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up >of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. >I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in >detail will be known? From day, month, and year of a recording, you can extrapolate the rest of the information. Paul Fellows' updated Concert Dates & Venue cross-reference website: http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html Tour personnel from 1974-1977 was Edgar Froese, Peter Baumann, Chris Franke. Tour personnel for 1978 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Steve Joliffe, Klaus Krieger (I think). Tour personnel for 1980-1984 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Johannes Schmoelling. Tour personnel for 1986-1987(?) was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Paul Haslinger I hope I haven't got those years wrong. -Morgan Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31539 Re: [tree] The Holy Grail(?) Admin Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB From: 'Admin' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:30 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] The Holy Grail(?) Well that is a piece of the pie. I am thinking what I am going to do with my disks are to place them into a binder with as much info for each concert I can dig up. Make up sort of a book for each concert. maybe just use one binder but with many leafs inside. Put art work outside. I just can't see stopping at the disk when a whole range of information is available. After all these are items to enjoy. Just like a bottle of fine wine. Except you can enjoy these more than once. I would also be interested in any who may take some of the tracks and convert them into midi. It will be a hand effort for sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Morgan Feldon' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 9:06 PM Subject: [tadream] [tree] The Holy Grail(?) > >Administrator for Kay-Net.com said: > >I would like to know on the concerts, who played with them, what equipment > >was used, number attended, has anybody else recorded the event, the line up > >of the band, anything special (like special songs or lights) and uniqueness. > >I am sure the dates, and place will be known but just how much more in > >detail will be known? > > From day, month, and year of a recording, you can extrapolate the rest of > the information. > > Paul Fellows' updated Concert Dates & Venue cross-reference website: > http://perso.club-internet.fr/pfellows/webpages/concertdates.html > > > Tour personnel from 1974-1977 was Edgar Froese, Peter Baumann, Chris Franke. > > Tour personnel for 1978 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Steve Joliffe, > Klaus Krieger (I think). > > Tour personnel for 1980-1984 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Johannes > Schmoelling. > > Tour personnel for 1986-1987(?) was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Paul Haslinger > > I hope I haven't got those years wrong. > > -Morgan > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: 'Admin' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:33 am Subject: mellotron Anybody know where one can find samples of a mellotron? What I am looking for are wave format of each instrument as found in mellotrons. I have a crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. dale Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31548 Re: mellotron TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31550 Re: mellotron Eric Williamson Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: Synthhtnys@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:07 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron In a message dated 1/18/2002 12:34:17 AM Central Standard Time, admin@k... writes: > Anybody know where one can find samples of a mellotron? What I am looking > for are wave format of each instrument as found in mellotrons. I have a > crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > dale > *There's a CD that Mike Pinder of the Moody Blues put out that has all the classic 'Tron samples. I am very partial to it. I think it's in AKAI format if that's compatible with your sampler. Poly [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'albenson' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:10 am Subject: The 'tree' of course! ~lol~ Our esteemed colleague Heiko wrote in Tadream Digest #1177 on January 9th: > [...] I know that I have a considerable number of recordings > which were not easy to obtain (master tapes or 2nd & 3rd > generation copies > > <> ~ROFL(((PIMP)))MAO~ > and I would like to share my best sounding recordings with > those who are interested in hearing them. And maybe other > 'die-hard' collectors also want to make their contribution. [...] And, followed up with: > [...] -Sheffield 29.10.74 1st gen., Nottingham 8.11.76 1st gen., > London 2.4.75 BBC master tape, Paris 16.08.75 4th gen., > London Olympia 22.10.75 2nd gen., Croydon 23.10.75 1st > gen., London 7.6.76 1st gen., Berlin 27.6.76 FM, Düsseldorf > 21.10.76 2nd gen., Brussels 16.11.76 3rd gen., excerpts from > Paris 22.11.76 3rd gen, excerpts of Seattle 21.4.77 3rd gen., > Hamburg 24.2.78...and a lot more :-) [...] _________________________________________________ I never really left -- I'm just lurking! ~lol~ Looks like you'll be using from the Bay Area the following: Berlin (06.27.76), Brussels (11.16.76), London (11.06.82) and excerpts from Paris (11.22.76) & Seattle (04.21.77)... I'm looking forward to making another contribution, but it shall remain a TD surprise! ~lol~ Count me in!!! Best Always, -- Al Berkeley, CA PS: Still backlogged (I'm very slow...), and don't worry I've got a memory like an elephant! :^) And, YES -- I'll update my TD website soon... http://marspolaris.tripod.com/index.html ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31988 Re: The 'tree' of course! ~lol~ albenson Fri 2/8/2002 4 KB From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:40 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Format Wars > In all the technical discussions, nobody's discussed the content, > have they? Well, I'd like to say - it sounds fantastic, a mix of > stuff I've never heard and favorites I'd kill for a top quality copy > of. Nice choice, Heiko. Thanks very much. Again I would like to point out that my concerts list is not definite, and I already know a few concerts which I think will be dropped from the list (for various reasons) Heiko From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:49 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] SHN From: 'Morgan Feldon' > I was getting sucked into the whirlwind of excitement for SHN, then I > realized something. > > The main reason for bit errors on redbook audio CDs is scratches, etc. right? > > How many scratches can an SHN disc take before that big massive file is > corrupted and you have to get another copy from your branch? I believe the point of distributing down the tree in SHN format is to try and eliminate redbook errors that wont show up when copying the discs and doing a standard verify check afterwards. When a branch extracts a SHN file to burn to redbook for a leaf, they can look at the checksum and if it doesn't match then they would need to request a new copy from the branch that supplied them. As long as each SHN branch checks their sums, you can trap an error straight away and it won't continue down the tree. Er... right? Mark?? ;-) I think I'm going to go with SHN, if it doesn't take too much hastle to set up. I'm a little skeptical about just how much sound degeneration you get when copying CDR of a CDR of a CDR if you're using *digital* audio extraction, and we are copying bootlegs and audience tapes. Excellently remastered audience tapes I'm sure, but still tapes. Maff From: 'Matthew Sawyer' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 7:57 am Subject: [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark I have a question for Mark or any other SHN experts in here. As was mentioned here recently, when burning a series of MP3's with continuous music (ie, no gaps) back into redbook you often get minor glitches inbetween each track, where the ripping software leaves a few frames of silence at the end of each track. Are you sure the SHN program doesn't do the same? This wont be an issue on discs with one 45 minute set, but the Bernau disc for example has about 13 tracks on it. Maff Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31553 Re: [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark Mark Filipak Fri 1/18/2002 7 KB 31556 Re: [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark C. Chambers Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: 'Yensen, Stephen' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 8:15 am Subject: RE: [tree] What's this all about? I hope this tree is going to work this time - I'm still extremely annoyed about the failure of the old European tape tree back in the old uwp days! Cheers, Steve - -- The wages of sin are death - but the wages here are worse. From: Eric Williamson Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:22 am Subject: RE: mellotrons? dale said: > I have a crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. Now that someone's pointed you in the right direction, what's your crazy idea? Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31562 Re: mellotrons? Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31576 Re: mellotrons? Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:31 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron --- Admin wrote: > Anybody know where one can find samples of a > mellotron? What I am looking > for are wave format of each instrument as found in > mellotrons. I have a > crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > dale (I'm not an expert so I might talk lot of bullsh** here but anyway) If you could try it, it would be cool. Different models had different instruments recorded. Basic patch I quess was cello, strings, horns and couple of rythms. But when years went on, many bands - like TD - recorded their own sounds there. Regards, TheInfection ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31550 Re: mellotron Eric Williamson Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' Date: Thu Jan 17, 2002 6:27 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Dear list, just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and spiritual property. - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve any profit-making. - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years past. Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31552 Re: regarding this tree TheInfection Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31579 Re: [tree] regarding this tree ftsmythe Sat 1/19/2002 4 KB From: Eric Williamson Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:42 am Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron Quoting TheInfection : > horns and couple of rythms. But when years went on, > many bands - like TD - recorded their own sounds very _very_ few performers recorded their own Mellotron samples. most custon mellotron samples were record by and for the BBC Radiophonic Workshop. TD definitely did record their own Mellotron tapes, but not as many as 'Fast Eddie' Froese would claim. they had to do the recording themselves and _then_ send the tapes to Mellotronics (or Streetly or whoever they were called). they couldn't do it all on their own because the Mellotron used some totally messed-up tape width .. like 3/8' or something. i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 months before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed up for sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape set that is all over 'Monolight' on Encore. i am _so_ kicking myself now ... they only wanted 30 dollars for it. Eric Williamson www.suitandtieguy.com From: Heiko Heerssen Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:05 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Now that everybody on the list has taken a deep breath I can only add the following: I am a huge Tangerine Dream fan..and I may be very naive..but I am no fool. As long as our tree is operated on a strictly non-profit level everybody's happy. But remember that I am the person to blame when someone is trying to squeeze out a few bucks by selling 'tree CDRs' to other people for ridiculous prices. Sooner or later it all comes back to me. I hope (and believe) that no-one of the participants will do this, but in case it happens I will cut off the tree immediately, and if it all gets out of hand I will not hesitate to unsubscribe from the mailing list. Heiko > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31560 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Michael Fox Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB 31563 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/18/2002 4 KB 31565 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Joe Shoults Fri 1/18/2002 6 KB 31580 Re: [tree] regarding this tree Admin Sat 1/19/2002 5 KB 31581 Re: [tree] regarding this tree KMJ Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB 31582 Re: [tree] regarding this tree C. Chambers Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB From: TheInfection Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:28 am Subject: Re: regarding this tree I can very well say that I won't even think of the word profit in any situation. This will be only the opportunity to get great music and to pass a copy to my friends who might be interested. And if someone less mature sells these releases in high prices, don't blame all of us. Well, not me at least. :-) Of course I don't mind that you might have some reservations and worries about this kind of operation. It's complitely understandable. Regards, TheInfection --- 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no > misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this > tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves > somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as > this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each > and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on > part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good > lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic > Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members > first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate > evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting > but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and > wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. > I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:36 am Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark Hi Maff. Matthew Sawyer wrote: > > I have a question for Mark or any other SHN experts in here. First off, in the spirit of truth in advertising, I am not a SHN expert. I was introduced to it only in the storm over the last few days. As an electronics engineer I have designed many complex frequency domain filters (in hardware!) and I am very familiar with the processes and issues, so I developed warm feelings for SHN faster than most on the list because I already understood how it works. > As was > mentioned here recently, when burning a series of MP3's with continuous > music (ie, no gaps) back into redbook you often get minor glitches inbetween > each track, where the ripping software leaves a few frames of silence at the > end of each track. Are you sure the SHN program doesn't do the same? SHN is not a ripper. It is a compression method. If your ripper pads tracks with 2 seconds of silence, SHN will include that silence because it doesn't alter the audio content at all -- 'lossless' means unaltered, 100% fidelity. > This > wont be an issue on discs with one 45 minute set, but the Bernau disc for > example has about 13 tracks on it. If you rip, set the ripper to not put in a track pad. If your ripper has no such setting, get a different ripper. I recommend EAC (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) which does no such thing and it's freeware. Optional reading ================ Have you ever used ZIP to compress programs and general data? Here's a conceptual view of what happens when you ZIP, for example, the Microsoft Word main program: Word.exe --> ZIP --> Word.zip You feed it the Word.exe file and ZIP makes a compressed version, names that compressed version Word.zip, and saves it on the hard drive. ZIP does not alter the original Word.exe file in any way. You can also UNZIP a file. For example: Word.zip --> UNZIP --> Word.exe (in different folder) Here is a picture of a 'round trip' that could be made: Word.exe --> ZIP --> Word.zip --> UNZIP --> Word.exe (in different folder) You can do a binary comparison of the two versions of Word.exe: Word.exe === Word.exe (in different folder) - happy outcome, or Word.exe =/= Word.exe (in different folder) - sad outcome (error). SHN is similar to ZIP, but fine tuned to do audio, spectral compression. The SHN 'round trip' looks like this: Exit.wav --> SHN --> Exit.shn --> UNSHN --> Exit.wav (in different folder) Both ZIP and SHN are 'lossless', meaning: unless there is an error, what you put into the compression end is what comes back out of the decompression end. So if I do a binary comparison of the two versions of Exit.wav: Exit.wav === Exit.wav (in different folder) THAT'S LOSSLESS. Now, look at MP3: Exit.wav --> MP3 --> Exit.mp3 --> UNMP3 --> Exit.wav (in different folder) Exit.wav =/= Exit.wav (in different folder) With MP3, the comparison is guaranteed to fail. THAT'S LOSSY, meaning it has lost something. How do I know that? The binary comparison shows that the two files are different. How lossy is it? That's determined by the percent of compression used when making the MP3 file. By the way, the MKW Audio Compression Tool that I'm using will do SHN, UNSHN, MP3, and UNMP3 -- the MP3 stuff is done with a Blade plugin, but that's included. You can get MKWACT here: http://home.att.net/~mkw/mkwact.html Think of MP3 as like a text compressor that leaves out every other vowel. The rsult mght be radble, bt yo woldn't want t have t red to much f it. Or, if you set the MP3 compression higher, the rslt might b nredble! So, what do I know? I know: What I put into SHN is exactly what I get out of UNSHN. I also know that a SHN file is about 1/2 the size of a WAV file. And I know that I can UNSHN a SHN file whenever I want the original WAV file back. And I know that I can make redbook audio out of WAV files. That's all I really need to know. With SHN, an entire concert will fit on one CD. With WAV or redbook audio, it will not in most cases. Oh, I know some other things: Copying a redbook disc to another redbook disc may produce errors that I don't know about: Exit.cda (on CD-ROM) --> RIP --> Exit.raw --> BURN --> Exit.cda (on CD-RAM) Exit.cda (on CD-ROM) =?= Exit.cda (on CD-RAM) (Ripping redbook audio is error prone. Trying to compare the two '.cda' files means ripping in both directions!) [To the knowledgable here, I know that '.cda' is not the real redbook audio (which is not really stored as a file at all), but when you look at the disc with Explorer, it's '.cda' that you see.] Copying a SHN disc to another SHN disc may produce an error (very unlikely), but I can check for errors and try again. Exit.shn (on CD-ROM) --> COPY --> Exit.shn (on CD-RAM) Exit.md5 (on CD-ROM) === Exit.md5 (on CD-RAM) - happy, or Exit.md5 (on CD-ROM) =/= Exit.md5 (on CD-RAM) - sad (error) The md5 is the fancy checksum error detector we've been talking about. It's included, but you have to run it. (Hmmm... I think I'll suggest disc to disc copy with automatic error detection to Michael Weise.) Thanks for sticking with this explanation, and I hope all is a little more clear now. Ciao -- Mark From: 'airsculpture' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:48 am Subject: Re: [tree] SHN --- In tadream@y..., Morgan Feldon wrote: OK, I spoke to soon about leaving this... > The main reason for bit errors on redbook audio CDs is scratches, > etc. right? Wrong. I think. > How many scratches can an SHN disc take before that big massive > file is corrupted and you have to get another copy from your branch? > > I presume SHN cannot deal with unreadable sections? There is a big difference. A data disc is like a hard disc: it has error detecion & some degree of (lossless) error recovery. Damage that causes the file to be damaged is rare (just like any other data CD you have) and will be detectable if it happens. Audio CDs have the job of delivering 1sec of music every second. That's a higher priority than reading of the exact data. *In Normal Use* audio players sometimes produce innacurate data, to cope with jitter as well as data errors (to which they are more susceptible as there's no redundancy). You can't hear these errors in normal use (until the disc is going west) but repeated re-recordings could amplify the errors to an audible degree. Digital domain grabbing and EAC should avoid these problems, but not everyone in the redbook tree can or will want to deal with them. > Also, who is going to seed all these SHN branches? If there are several > redbook audio steps before the SHN, what have we accomplished? The plan seems to be to have a first level SHN root. > I think Hieko would have to buy a CD burner for his PC to do the > SHN at the level you guys are asking for. Not neccesarily. The worry is about *repeated* copies, putting one redbook copy at the root shouldn't be an issue. It would be better if the people doing the mastering could provide the WAV/SHN data (they must have) to the SHN root, of course. Heiko wouldn't need to copy them at all then. BTW: I think it's worth having a number of people archiving the maximal quality versions, because who knows what will happen in the future. I don't actually expect I'd be disapointed in the quality of a redbook version. jc From: Mark Filipak Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:25 pm Subject: File copying -vs- digital audio copying I have not put [tree] in the subject line because what I have to write is general knowledge. What is the difference between copying a file from one disk (disc) to another, and copying digital audio (i.e., ripping redbook)? It's all digital, isn't it? Facts to know before details ============================ 1 - Digital audio is a real time process, file copying isn't. 2 - CD players do have sample and hold circuits, disk drives don't. 3 - CD players do have audio filters, disk drives don't. 4 - CD players don't have built-in memory, disk drives do. [Knowledgeble people should hold off replying 'til the end as I'm going to tell some half-truths, but clear them up at the end.] Detail 1 ======== How long does it take to copy 1 sector of data from your hard disk to, for example, a floppy disk? Answer: it varies. Does that matter? Answer: not much. How long does it take a CD player to 'play' 1 sector of data? Answer: somewhere around 1 second. Does that matter? Answer: it sure does! Detail 2 ======== What happens if a CD player has an error? Answer: It's digital sample and hold circuit retains the last good audio sample value and uses that to fill in. What happens if a disk drive has an error? Answer: The data is thown away and the sector is reread on the next disk revolution -- CD players can't afford the time it takes to do this. Detail 3 ======== What happens to the sound if the sample and hold in a CD player has to retain the last good audio sample? Answer: The slight error produced in the audio wave will be smoothed out by analog audio filters (inaudible) before it gets to the output. Of course, if there are a long string of errors, the held value gets too far from reality and when reality catches up, 'tick'. Can sample and hold be used to help disk drives? Answer: No. The bit patterns in data and programs have a much more seemingly random character and fill-in is not possible. Even one bit error while loading a program may crash the machine. Even one bit error in a data file may cause Mark Filipak to receive a 1 million dollar check in the mail. Detail 4 ======== Unlike hard disks and data-formatted CDRs, redbook uses a spiral as the music (data) track instead of concentric rings because CD players don't have any memory. They don't have any memory because back around 1980 when CD audio was first engineered, memory was very expensive. It's way too late to change that. Redbook: Look Ma, no memory =========================== The redbook format was specifically designed to allow playback without memory. CDs are formatted as a continuous spiral so that the laser optic pickup doesn't have to start and stop, but can be pushed at a (relatively) constant rate. Also, by doing this the CD player doesn't need to buffer (or cache) the audio data, but instead, merely streams it out in real time. Hard disk drives and computer CD-ROM drives must have at least enough memory to buffer one sector (called a 'sector cache') and most have enough memory to cache through track-to-track seeks to improve performance. Redbook: A quasi-digital medium =============================== You can see that redbook is actually a quasi-digital medium. The stored (waveform) data IS digital, but it is read by an analog control process. To the contrary, CDRs that have been formatted to hold DATA FILES (non-redbook) are formatted with concentric rings and use folders and everything else that comes with data file structures, just like a hard disk. The data is digital AND the way the data is stored and retrieved is also digital -- the laser optic pickup jumps back and forth from track to track. It is the constant motion of the laser optic pickup and the 'hunting' characteristic that I wrote about yesterday that creates the problems with ripping redbook audio. Clearing up the half-truths =========================== Though it is true that, unlike CD players, computer CD-ROM drives DO have memory, they often don't use it for audio (mine doesn't). And though DAE (digital audio extraction) in a computer's CD-ROM drive is SUPPOSED to read around the sample and hold, it doesn't in many CD-ROM drives. And though most quality CD players have error correction, most computer CD-ROM drives either don't, or they use it only when accessing file structures, but not audio -- further explanation: audio data error correction and file data error correction are two different things (when in redbook mode, the CD-ROM drive's microprocessor operates in a completely different manner and runs completely different internal programs). In the present world of cheap memory, if redbook was being invented now, it would be totally different, but then is not now and we have to live with what we have. Or, as an alternative, we could store our audio data as files instead of redbook. Ciao -- Mark Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31564 Re: File copying -vs- digital audio copying Administrator for kay-net.com Fri 1/18/2002 8 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 1:42 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] Quick question about SHN for Mark Matt...shn does not leave gaps between tracks when you put it back together, assuming you burn DAO... Craig > I have a question for Mark or any other SHN experts in here. As was > mentioned here recently, when burning a series of MP3's with continuous > music (ie, no gaps) back into redbook you often get minor > glitches inbetween > each track, where the ripping software leaves a few frames of > silence at the > end of each track. Are you sure the SHN program doesn't do the same? This > wont be an issue on discs with one 45 minute set, but the Bernau disc for > example has about 13 tracks on it. From: 'Michael Jean' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:10 pm Subject: Region Free DVD NTSC/PAL Can anyone with experience using these type of machines contact me off list. Regards, Michael A. Jean The Brookings Institution, Room 821 1775 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20036-2188 TEL: (202)-797-6214 FAX: (202)-797-2479 EMAIL: mjean@b... http://www.brookings.edu From: 'Roger Hartopp' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:38 pm Subject: Re: [tree] Regarding this tree/formats/etc., etc. Well, I've been sitting through all this in lurk mode (and, thankfully, in digest mode) so I suppose I'd better put in my two'penny worth. I suppose I'm one of the old fashioned types who knows bugger all about computers, burners, red books, SHN's, and all the other wonderful new recording packages still to come (SISTER [Super Incredible Sounds To Excite Romboys], and DIJAF-AIB [Downloads In Just A Flash - And It's Brilliant]... ;-). I'm going to settle as a leaf (Anyone in Poland being a branch?). But the point Martin makes is clear - and that's what kind of concerns me. There are now well over 400 list members here and many of them will just sit and take all this in, being in lurk mode only. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the crop... and it's goodbye not just to the whole project, but any further TD cooperation that exists, many esteemed listmembers and this particular list's credibility. And a very upset Heiko, who could end up talking to his heroes in court because of some greedy idiot. I know it's stating the obvious but PLEASE, everyone... let's treat this project with respect, be thankful for such a marvellous opportunity, and don't be that one individual who will spoil it for the rest of us BIGTIME. Okay, that's it, back to sleep now... Roger Hartopp -- Okresl Swoje potrzeby - my znajdziemy oferte za Ciebie! [ http://oferty.onet.pl ] From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Klaus Shulze Contemporary Works and Wave Files Etc. At 04:00 PM 01/17/2002 -0800, you wrote: >so i hope i get a >branch that is willing to not only burn cdrs but is >also willing to do covers for me. what are the chances >of that happening? my thinking is next to none. If you were my leaf, you'd get both. I hope that is the spirit of this all. It's not like each branch will have so many leaves they can't help out someone who can't get all the goods. Geeez. We were all there at some point. Mike From: Michael Fox Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:28 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree At 11:05 AM 01/18/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Sooner or later it all comes back to me. I hope (and >believe) that no-one of the participants will do this, but in case it >happens I >will cut off the tree immediately, I think all will be okay. This list is fairly 'confined' as opposed to some others and I doubt any of this would find it's way to say, Ebay. If it does, there are processes already in place by another list I am on to deal with that person. Trust me, it works. We've shut down a couple of big time profiteers for good. Mike From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron most likely not. I was more looking for wave. I will take a look and see what I can pipe into. I have not bought a sampler yet. I been using the computer to get by. Was going to buy the Korg simple one. Maybe I better review some more before spending. Thanks Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron > In a message dated 1/18/2002 12:34:17 AM Central Standard Time, > admin@k... writes: > > > > Anybody know where one can find samples of a mellotron? What I am looking > > for are wave format of each instrument as found in mellotrons. I have a > > crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > > > dale > > > > *There's a CD that Mike Pinder of the Moody Blues put out that has all the > classic 'Tron samples. I am very partial to it. > I think it's in AKAI format if that's compatible with your sampler. > Poly > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31613 Re: mellotron TDI MUSIC- Martin K. Mon 1/21/2002 3 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:42 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: mellotrons? I am not ready yet to describe it. It may be so crazy it should never be spoken of in public. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Eric Williamson' To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 1:22 AM Subject: [tadream] RE: mellotrons? > dale said: > > I have a crazy idea I want to try out with a sampler. > > Now that someone's pointed you in the right direction, what's your crazy idea? > > Eric Williamson > www.suitandtieguy.com > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31576 Re: mellotrons? Gustavo Jobim Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:45 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Understood. So for the record, if you are one of my leafs, I will be keeping a record of just what and when. I rather enjoy my freedom. Last I checked, they don't allow music equipment in jail. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' To: Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Dear list, just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and spiritual property. - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve any profit-making. - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years past. Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. Best regards, Martin Kasprzak TDI- Music- Support. Tel:-49-30-23620995 Fax:-49-30-23620996 Visit our Website at: www.tdimusic.com Have a nice day! ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: 'Administrator for kay-net.com' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] File copying -vs- digital audio copying fairly accurate. most cd burners, at least the newer ones, have some memory. The Yamahas I have right now are 8 meg. I think the one at my house is 16 meg. I do not believe they do anything else except to buffer the write, not playback. If I see anything else I will comment later. Administrator for Kay-Net.com admin@k... 661-723-0266 Your best source for Computer Products, Internet needs and Knowledge. ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Mark Filipak' To: 'Tadream' Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 5:25 AM Subject: [tadream] File copying -vs- digital audio copying > I have not put [tree] in the subject line because what I have to write is general knowledge. > > What is the difference between copying a file from one disk (disc) to another, and copying digital audio (i.e., ripping redbook)? It's all digital, isn't it? > > Facts to know before details > ============================ > 1 - Digital audio is a real time process, file copying isn't. > 2 - CD players do have sample and hold circuits, disk drives don't. > 3 - CD players do have audio filters, disk drives don't. > 4 - CD players don't have built-in memory, disk drives do. > > [Knowledgeble people should hold off replying 'til the end as I'm going to tell some half-truths, but clear them up at the end.] > > Detail 1 > ======== > How long does it take to copy 1 sector of data from your hard disk to, for example, a floppy disk? Answer: it varies. Does that matter? Answer: not much. > > How long does it take a CD player to 'play' 1 sector of data? Answer: somewhere around 1 second. Does that matter? Answer: it sure does! > > Detail 2 > ======== > What happens if a CD player has an error? Answer: It's digital sample and hold circuit retains the last good audio sample value and uses that to fill in. > > What happens if a disk drive has an error? Answer: The data is thown away and the sector is reread on the next disk revolution -- CD players can't afford the time it takes to do this. > > Detail 3 > ======== > What happens to the sound if the sample and hold in a CD player has to retain the last good audio sample? Answer: The slight error produced in the audio wave will be smoothed out by analog audio filters (inaudible) before it gets to the output. Of course, if there are a long string of errors, the held value gets too far from reality and when reality catches up, 'tick'. > > Can sample and hold be used to help disk drives? Answer: No. The bit patterns in data and programs have a much more seemingly random character and fill-in is not possible. Even one bit error while loading a program may crash the machine. Even one bit error in a data file may cause Mark Filipak to receive a 1 million dollar check in the mail. > > Detail 4 > ======== > Unlike hard disks and data-formatted CDRs, redbook uses a spiral as the music (data) track instead of concentric rings because CD players don't have any memory. They don't have any memory because back around 1980 when CD audio was first engineered, memory was very expensive. It's way too late to change that. > > Redbook: Look Ma, no memory > =========================== > The redbook format was specifically designed to allow playback without memory. CDs are formatted as a continuous spiral so that the laser optic pickup doesn't have to start and stop, but can be pushed at a (relatively) constant rate. Also, by doing this the CD player doesn't need to buffer (or cache) the audio data, but instead, merely streams it out in real time. > > Hard disk drives and computer CD-ROM drives must have at least enough memory to buffer one sector (called a 'sector cache') and most have enough memory to cache through track-to-track seeks to improve performance. > > Redbook: A quasi-digital medium > =============================== > You can see that redbook is actually a quasi-digital medium. The stored (waveform) data IS digital, but it is read by an analog control process. To the contrary, CDRs that have been formatted to hold DATA FILES (non-redbook) are formatted with concentric rings and use folders and everything else that comes with data file structures, just like a hard disk. The data is digital AND the way the data is stored and retrieved is also digital -- the laser optic pickup jumps back and forth from track to track. > > It is the constant motion of the laser optic pickup and the 'hunting' characteristic that I wrote about yesterday that creates the problems with ripping redbook audio. > > Clearing up the half-truths > =========================== > Though it is true that, unlike CD players, computer CD-ROM drives DO have memory, they often don't use it for audio (mine doesn't). And though DAE (digital audio extraction) in a computer's CD-ROM drive is SUPPOSED to read around the sample and hold, it doesn't in many CD-ROM drives. And though most quality CD players have error correction, most computer CD-ROM drives either don't, or they use it only when accessing file structures, but not audio -- further explanation: audio data error correction and file data error correction are two different things (when in redbook mode, the CD-ROM drive's microprocessor operates in a completely different manner and runs completely different internal programs). > > In the present world of cheap memory, if redbook was being invented now, it would be totally different, but then is not now and we have to live with what we have. > > Or, as an alternative, we could store our audio data as files instead of redbook. > > Ciao -- Mark > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:08 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree Thank you Martin! As we state emphatically at the very beginning of the Tree page in 'The Premier Rule', 'we will cooperate fully with TDI to pursue, prosecute and litigate to the fullest extent possible,' should we discover that anyone is selling any of these CDs. We also mention that we will be watching, and we will! We have some pretty rabid collectors here, and they keep an ever-vigilant eye on ebay.com, always looking for stuff. It is not hard to trace transactions, and ebay cooperates with this kind of investigation also, and there are other means as well. A couple of people contacted me off-list, asking if this (Martin's message) will derail the project or change it in any way. Quite the contrary! He's just reaffirming the positions that we have already stated: Martin says that 'we will investigate the list members first,' and if you think about it, of course this would be the most logical place to start, wouldn't it? Not only that, but he will have our help! The people who need to worry are the ones who intend to sell the discs - and note that I'm saying 'sell', not 'make profit from'. This all goes back to my advice about it being better not exchanging cash AT ALL, and I'll advance that advice to say 'not even for postage'. I mean, how cheap can you get? I just got a packet in the mail last week with 8 discs in a bubblewrapper. The postage in the US was only $1.60! The blanks may have cost, what - about the same? Come on. Ultimately, it is up to you and your branchline about exchanging postage fees, but I'm not going to bother with it; let's just have fun. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ So, let's make it clear right now: by participating in this tree, you are by default agreeing to 'The Premier Rule' stated on the tree info page. If you have a problem with this, you can contact me off-list and I unceremoniously remove your name from the Participants List. If so, click here: mailto:tadream-owner@yahoogroups.com?subject=I_can't_control_my_greed!_pleas e_remove_me_from_the_tree +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Finally, from my perspective, I'm putting my time and effort into this, Heiko and the artists are too, and YOU will be when you get your discs. If I personally discover that anyone is jeopardizing the tolerant latitude that Martin and TDI are giving to us, it will certainly PISS me off to the ultimate end. I will F**K YOU UP as bad as I can (legally). I HOPE all of you can laugh at that statement because you know that it will never have a chance of applying to you. ;-) Sincerely and respectfully, Joe > -----Original Message----- > From: TDI MUSIC- Martin K. [mailto:manager@t...] > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:28 PM > To: tadream@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [tadream] [tree] regarding this tree > > > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing > like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody > else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does > not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every > action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' > surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. > Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence > than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to > make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also > want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 4:54 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] tour personnel One correction: Australia 1975 (including Royal Albert Hall, UK) lineup: Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Michael Hoenig. (Peter took off to Tibet...) > -----Original Message----- > Tour personnel from 1974-1977 was Edgar Froese, Peter > Baumann, Chris Franke. > > Tour personnel for 1978 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Steve > Joliffe, > Klaus Krieger (I think). > > Tour personnel for 1980-1984 was Edgar Froese, Chris Franke, Johannes > Schmoelling. > > Tour personnel for 1986-1987(?) was Edgar Froese, Chris > Franke, Paul Haslinger Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31637 tour personnel olle.rundgren@s... Wed 1/23/2002 3 KB 31643 Re: tour personnel Owens, James Wed 1/23/2002 3 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:38 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN > -----Original Message----- > From: meta_mythos [mailto:blackmirage@e...] > Interesting, took 24 hours for my last post to appear in Yahoo, > what's that all about ? > Anyway... all new subscribers are on moderated status by default upon subscribing. There are several reasons, but mostly to prevent spam and to make sure people aren't nut cases. ;-) I upgraded you to unmoderated status the opther day when I saw your message in the approval queue. Joe From: 'John Vertical' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices >i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 >months >before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed up >for >sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape >set >that is all over 'Monolight' on Encore. > >i am _so_ kicking myself now ... they only wanted 30 dollars for it. (I know this is a somewhat lousy topic, but we need something besides the tree/formats discussion.) That happens to be also one of my most favourite voices. Here are some others: -choral in Alpha Centauri -final squirgling voice in Atem, just before the outro drums -last main voice in Phaedra -last sequence in Ricochet Part 2 -bass in Cloudburst Flight -breathy sighes in Horizon (first quarter) -transistion voice at ~11.30 in Livemiles (Albuquerque Concert) -main sequence of Dolls in the Shadow Of course this is just a very very small excerpt of all the great unique voices in TD music... John Vertical _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31578 Re: mellotron & good voices 3N Fri 1/18/2002 3 KB 31584 Re: mellotron & good voices Mark Filipak Sat 1/19/2002 3 KB 31612 Re: mellotron & good voices TheInfection Mon 1/21/2002 2 KB From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:00 pm Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN sorry- meant for off-list. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Shoults [mailto:jshoults@f...] > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:39 PM > To: 'tadream@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] Why branches should want SHN > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: meta_mythos [mailto:blackmirage@e...] > > Interesting, took 24 hours for my last post to appear in Yahoo, > > what's that all about ? > > Anyway... > > > all new subscribers are on moderated status by default upon > subscribing. > There are several reasons, but mostly to prevent spam and to make sure > people aren't nut cases. ;-) > > I upgraded you to unmoderated status the opther day when I > saw your message > in the approval queue. > > Joe > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > From: 'Owens, James' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 5:44 pm Subject: updated lyrics Just a note: I've corrected the lyrics for most of the tracks from Tyger (what was there before was just the poems as written, not as used on the album). Joe has kindly uploaded the corrections to the archives section of tadream.net The biggest change is the lyrics to London, which is actually taken from 4 separate Blake poems (if you include 'The Fly' as part of London). James From: Joe Shoults Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:10 pm Subject: OT: plugin to play SHN in Winamp? someone mentioned you can play SHN files in winamp with a plugin I'm trying to find the plugin on winamp.com without success. anyone know where to find this? TIA, Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31572 Re: OT: plugin to play SHN in Winamp? atye@a... Fri 1/18/2002 2 KB From: atye@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] OT: plugin to play SHN in Winamp? http://www.etree.org/shnamp.html :-) (Google knows ALLLLLLL) Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From: 'tei waz' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 6:43 pm Subject: now for something completely different are we nearing a release date yet for part one of dante's trilogy? and what are the continuing TD prospects for 2002? part two live in purgatory, er Atlanta? has anyone found Jerome's latest single for sale on the net, yet?--from ground-liftaz I see it's available at a couple of shops.... --T _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From: tangram12@a... Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:51 pm Subject: wants list update hi everyone i have just updated my wants list, please have a look to see if you can help me out on anything :-) thanks Duncan McKee tangram@t... www.tadream.co.uk ICQ 41739379 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31583 Re: wants list update Piotr'Millennium' Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB From: '3N' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] Warsaw, Poland 1983 Information Hello Mr Moulder! (not only never trust a boot label, but trust no one!) I must add something for your information. ----- Original Message ----- From: Morgan Feldon > The afternoon Warsaw 1983 concert had no power outages. > > The evening Warsaw 1983 concert had ONE power outage at 10 minutes, 7 > seconds into the music. After a couple of minutes, they were able to > resume, playing the typical 'bridge' after the first movement of Poland. Generally you're right, but in details the truth is out there ( ;)) ). I tell once more - I was on both warsaws shows and I remeber what happened. It was exactly inverse. The first show started about 4PM after more than 2 hours from the moment of open doors. I was in the first row, very close to the stage - 4-5 meters from Johannes, so I can precisely see what he (and Mr Sequencer ;)) ) doing. Few minutes after 4PM it resound, like a gong, first acord from Hyperborea - we start shout, but the stage is still covered by a curtain. Only from speakers start to talk Mr. Kordowicz about history of TD (It was a first, but not last, lie - in this time he was in Sweden ;))) ). After this, lights out and from behind a curtain appear a light smoke; from speakers wind 'blows' and with curtains set apart 'thunders' the first acord from Poland. I see that those acords 'play' Johannes, but I think thats all is from quasimidi-sequencers. The music is very rythmic and very loudly and it grow up and grow up more!! (My ears! - for the next week I nonstop heard in right ear the sound of bells ;)) ). Now Johannes play a own solo and unexpect they stop all. I hear only the last beat's echo from hall. It's very strange - the start piece wasn't bad but why so short? And why stops in so unexpected moment?? On stoned Ed's face I see first a big astonishment and now, yes, he is looking on Chris and they normally laugh at this situation! (where is a candid camera???) But I just know - it wasn't a normally end of first part of music. It's true - the lights in hall and again closed a curtain. 'It was the shortest performance of Tangerine' with anxiety I talk to somebody. But for the next twenty (or more) minutes we haven't any information what's happening. But lights out, curtain is open again and musicans play further, ufff. It wasn't others failure in show, but for this breaks after the second part (ohh yes with a big woman in a black frock, who with a russian accent told same big nonsenses - KievMission in Polish: oh no, thanks, never more!!!) was _only_ one encore: of course it was Choronzon. Second show start with one hour delay (because I have tickets for both shows I can check on whitch time was planed start of second show) - nightmare for the entrances: crush, police, truncheons (for me too), tear-gas - I don't know in which case I can go so fast from exit that I came to entranced door in the first wave of people - for this day it was like a miracle. Thanks God. But in the evening show all was in the highest perfect - maybe in fact, that was a TV? But for me TV were disturb - in both parts of evenig show was on very lighten reflectors - it killed an atmospheric of Tangerines music. Only encores (Choronzon, WhiteEagle/DasMadchenAufDerTreppe and RareBird) was without this terible light. WhiteEagle was enchanting - it was completly dark, but people lights in own hands 'a little stars' and on the stages screen a big Earth seemed from space... I don't saw when they entranced in stage, maybe those indistinct shadows? But all of a sudden I see that on Chris' 'box' starts a red leds - in left row, on moment in right row... and form speakers it play sweet plumm, plumm, plamm plamm, pleem, pleem pleem plim ;))). Yes, in this time I was in the most true tangerine dream with marmelade skies. OK, end, basta. The rest is a silence. > > The best possible bootleg of the afternoon and evening shows is 'Dreaming > on Ice Stadium', but even it has tracks out of sequence and many > mislabelings (never trust a boot label!), probably due to language > translation. Once all the tracks have been reshuffled, it's a decent > quality bootleg (6/10) that, with some TLC (pitch adjustment and filtering) > could be even better. Of course could and _would_ be better - but it was my first work with remestered old and very dirty sounds. But I think that in this year I make a different version of this - only the afternoon show, but the whole and in actually order. The reverse order of discs, order of some _bonus_ tracks, strange polish labels - that all was my conscious decision (I _hate_ names like 'track one, track twos, track drei, czwartos, feltos' and who knows). This boot was prepared for my polish friends from polish TD-fanlist, only. It's funny how much _friends_ I have. No matter. Morgan, you must check that the first disk is from _second_ show, and second disc - from first (afternoons). In this fact you have the _whole_ set one (let be Poland) from evening show (why? because it was in much better quality) on the first disc, and the _whole_ set two (Horizon and so on) from the afternoon show on the second. Other tracks are only as bonus (on first some other pieces from evening, on second - of course from afteroon with the famous break). That's all. with the best oranges regards agent FBI - Sculy ;)) 'The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going' PS. I think, if we talk so clesely about this, I must confess, that in my production I make an another small lie too. Actual tempo of music from polish shows was a bit speeder and key about 80 cents higher. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Czy w Polsce mozna zyc 111 lat? >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ciekawostki/news?inf=219835 From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:14 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] RE: mellotrons? >I am not ready yet to describe it. It may be so crazy it should never be >spoken of in public. Now you got me curious indeed! :) GJ np: Quichotte part 1 (climax, 13:40) - man, I just love that chord Froese keeps repeating over and over, underlining all that great music. And that thing of repeating chords is just SO Froese!! Great, great. And then after the climax there's That Solo, great great great. Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: Gustavo Jobim Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:54 pm Subject: [trade] Brazilian Haslinger's Score Hi folks, I'm not exactly a constant trader (and thankfully, not a collector either), but I do like to trade whenever there's the possibility. I'd like to know, would anyone like to have Haslinger's [very good BTW] album, Score, __made in Brazil__? I know where I can find one, we could arrange a trade then. BTW, the cover and booklet are exactly the same as the American version, except that it's made in Brazil and, of course, you can see that on the back cover and on the CD. And this one CD I'm talking about is in perfect conditions, still on the shelf waiting to be bought, and I'm pretty sure it'll be there for a long time. I'm not looking exactly for anything other than original albums by Tangerine Dream or Klaus Schulze (Schulze, specially) that I don't have, or anything else that could be interesting. You know, these albums are hard to find here, and when you do find (and I know where to find them), they're quite expensive. The imported CDs price nowadays is quite suffocating. Even CDs made here have been getting absurdly more and more expensive! Can't wait for my KS's In Blue, though. It should arrive someday in late January, ordered by catalog. Here's a very quick list of albums I'm looking forward to hear, but of course there are [many] others: Body Love 1 and 2, Interface, Live (the new version) (if you can offer that Live we have a deal), En=trance, Beyond Recall, Are You Sequenced, the Ultimate Edition 50CD box (ahem ;) not going to see one such box in a long time, probably never). If any of the collectors out there are interested, please let me know in private. There's a list of albums I have, if you want I can send it to you. It's in a nicely edited Excel file. I'll be near that store tomorrow morning, so if you reply soon, maybe I can get the CD tomorrow and maybe even send it the same day. I'll check my mail again later tonight before going to sleep. GJ playing: Quichotte part 2 (great great great... and what a guitar! don't care if it's not the original, it's just great :) p.s. [tree] working on covers for our tree... the artwork folks (myself included) are doing quite a good job! ;) Gustavo Jobim gustavojobim@n... From: '3N' Date: Fri Jan 18, 2002 10:32 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices HeY! ----- Original Message ----- From: John Vertical To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices > >i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 > >months > >before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed up > >for > >sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape Sorry, but I haven't the first news for this thread (??) - can anybody help me and give me an address of this synthesiser list? with regards JerzyK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Czy w Polsce mozna zyc 111 lat? >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ciekawostki/news?inf=219835 From: 'ftsmythe' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 1:45 am Subject: Re: [tree] regarding this tree I respectfully submit to Mr. Kasprzak that he may wish to consult his own lawyer before making arbitrary comments suggesting the ability to 'investigate the list members first.' As a member of this list who is not participating in this trading tree, I would take any 'investigation' into my person as a result of this tree nothing short of a hostile act. Mr. Kasprzak should carefully consider his words before penning such a testosterone-inspired chest pounding. TDI is far from an empowered policing or investigative agent, and has perhaps just bitten off more than it can chew with this imprudent threat. I too am sorry for the tone, but I don't take such things lightly, and neither should any member of this list. FTS --- In tadream@y..., 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! From: 'Admin' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:57 am Subject: Re: [tadream] Re: [tree] regarding this tree Perhaps some of us are more laid back and understand just what he was saying. I did not take it as a threat to me. A cautious warning, yes. I know I would be thinking the same if I was TD. Perhaps even more. dale ----- Original Message ----- From: 'ftsmythe' To: Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 5:45 PM Subject: [tadream] Re: [tree] regarding this tree I respectfully submit to Mr. Kasprzak that he may wish to consult his own lawyer before making arbitrary comments suggesting the ability to 'investigate the list members first.' As a member of this list who is not participating in this trading tree, I would take any 'investigation' into my person as a result of this tree nothing short of a hostile act. Mr. Kasprzak should carefully consider his words before penning such a testosterone-inspired chest pounding. TDI is far from an empowered policing or investigative agent, and has perhaps just bitten off more than it can chew with this imprudent threat. I too am sorry for the tone, but I don't take such things lightly, and neither should any member of this list. FTS --- In tadream@y..., 'TDI MUSIC- Martin K.' wrote: > Dear list, > > just so everybody is clear on this and there are no misunderstandings: > - TDI nor I does not approve nor authorize this tree. A thing like this is > always an illegal activity because it involves somebody else´s personal and > spiritual property. > - we are merely watching and tolerating as long as this does not involve > any profit-making. > - please be fully aware that we will monitor each and every action very > closely. Should we receive evidence of misuse on part of any of the > participators, be prepared to get yourself a good lawyer. > - should we see something of the like of 'Electronic Orgy 2' surfacing on > the market, we will investigate the list members first. Please be aware > that this time it will be a lot easier to generate evidence than in years > past. > > Sorry for the rather serious tone of this posting but I just wanted to > clarify our position on this once and for all and wanted to make everybody > aware that they are walking thin ice in this matter. I also want to prevent > anyone getting 'profitable ideas' from this. > > > Best regards, > > Martin Kasprzak > TDI- Music- Support. > Tel:-49-30-23620995 > Fax:-49-30-23620996 > > Visit our Website at: > > www.tdimusic.com > > Have a nice day! ----------------------------------------------------_- To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ----------------------------------------------------_- Are you on the tree yet? Go to http://www.tadream.net/tree Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From: KMJ Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 5:36 am Subject: Re: [tree] regarding this tree >-----Original Message----- >From: ftsmythe > >I respectfully submit to Mr. Kasprzak that he may wish to consult >his own lawyer before making arbitrary comments suggesting >the ability to 'investigate the list members first.' As a member of >this list who is not participating in this trading tree, I would take >any 'investigation' into my person as a result of this tree nothing >short of a hostile act. Hey Dude, CHILL OUT!!!!!!!! If you're doing nothing wrong, there's nothing for you to get so worked up over. Kevin Replies Name/Email Yahoo! ID Date Size 31582 Re: [tree] regarding this tree C. Chambers Sat 1/19/2002 2 KB From: 'C. Chambers' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 7:51 am Subject: RE: [tadream] Re: [tree] regarding this tree > Hey Dude, > > CHILL OUT!!!!!!!! If you're doing nothing wrong, there's nothing > for you to > get so worked up over. > My thoughts exactly!! I think with all reason, that even if someone were trying to profit that TDI would only be focusing on the folks that are on the tree, which will be public...since you so eloquently informed us you are not on the tree, then what is your worry? Craig From: 'Piotr\'Millennium\'' Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 10:14 am Subject: Re: [tadream] wants list update Hi, I also need of Your help Here is my want list: http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/Poszukiwane/poszukiwane.html Here are my to trade: http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/Wymiana/wymiana.html Pozdrawiam Piotr S. Millennium http://www.astercity.net/~sulas/ > hi everyone > i have just updated my wants list, please have a look to see if you can help > me out on anything :-) > thanks > > Duncan McKee From: Mark Filipak Date: Sat Jan 19, 2002 4:49 pm Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices Here ya go Jerzy (and any one else, too) analogue-subscribe@h... Ciao -- Mark 3N wrote: > > HeY! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Vertical > To: > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 6:24 PM > Subject: Re: [tadream] mellotron & good voices > > > >i fell in love with the Mellotron sound because of King Crimson. about 4 > > >months > > >before i was introduced to the TD, a set of TD's Mellotron tapes showed > up > > >for > > >sale on Analogue Heaven (a synthesiser list). it was the Moog brass tape > > Sorry, but I haven't the first news for this thread (??) - can anybody help > me and give me an address of this synthesiser list? > > with regards > JerzyK > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Czy w Polsce mozna zyc 111 lat? > >>> http://fakty.interia.pl/ciekawostki/news?inf=219835 > > ----------------------------------------------------_- > To unsubscribe: mailto:tadream-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > ----------------------------------------------------_- > Are you on the tree yet? Go to > http://www.tadream.net/tree > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- It's 2002. Do you know where your Osama is?